October 27, 2021 • 38 mins
This week on First Coat we have J. Manuel Mansylla (Manman). Manman is Principal of FANTÁSTICA, leading placemaking, design, and branding projects. FANTÁSTICA specializes in transformative projects to revitalize underutilized assets and unlock economic potential. He's worked on the creation of the first New York City Department of Transportation (DOT) public plaza in Dumbo’s Pearl Street Triangle, development of the citywide standard for DOT Street Seats with locations in Downtown Brooklyn, Park Slope, Hudson Yards, and East New York; the design of Downtown Brooklyn’s popular holiday lights display; and design of the outdoor spaces for the Dumbo Heights development in the Brooklyn Tech Triangle. He's also a co-founder of Oonee, a smart, modular, customizable pod that provides secure parking for scooters and bicycles as well as public space amenities. Oonee is currently raising money on Republic - if you're interested you can find the link in the show notes.
In this episode we talk about how we can co-create more vibrant public spaces, the impact of COVID-19 on public spaces, and how to transform short-term public space experiments into long term policies so we can all have better public spaces.
Show Notes: https://distillcreative.com/blog/10/27/21/public-space-design-with-j-manuel-mansylla-ep-21
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Stephanie Eche (00:01):
Welcome to First Coat, where we explore public
art, how it's made and why itmatters. I'm your host Stephanie
Eche, an artist and artconsultant based in Brooklyn,
New York. I interview artists,cultural producers, designers
and funders on how art in publicspace happens, and how to create
more equitable and inclusiveprojects in public space. I also
(00:21):
share my tips on how to curateand commissioned art projects
for your business, how I run myart consulting business, Distill
Creative, and how I'm developingmy own art practice. You can
listen to this episode, whereveryou listen to podcasts, or watch
it on YouTube. If you like whatyou hear, please leave a review
and support this project onPatreon. I produce edit and,
(00:42):
well, do everything myself soyour support keeps this project
going. If you're interested inmy art consulting services or
artwork, check outdistillcreative.com. Thanks so
much for listening and I hopeyou enjoy this episode. This
week on First Coat, we have J.
Manuel Mansylla also known asManman. Manman is principal of
Fantastica, leading placemakingdesign and branding projects.
(01:03):
Fantastica specializes intransformative projects to
vitalize underutilized assetsand unlock economic potential.
Manman has worked on thecreation of the first New York
City Department ofTransportation, DOT, public
plaza in Dumbo is Pearl Streettriangle development of the
citywide standard for DOT streetseats with locations in downtown
Brooklyn, Park Slope, HudsonYards and East New York, the
(01:25):
design of outdoor spaces for theDumbo Heights development in the
Brooklyn Tech triangle as wellas many other projects. He's
also a co-founder of Oonee, asmart, modular, customizable pod
that provides secure parking forScooters and bicycles, as well
as public space amenities. Ooneeis currently raising money on
Republic so, if you'reinterested, you can find the
link in the show notes. In thisepisode, we talked about how we
(01:47):
can co-create more vibrantpublic spaces, the impact of
COVID-19 on public spaces, andhow to transform short term
public space experiments intolong term policies so we can all
have better public spaces. Ifyou like this podcast, please
let me know by leaving a reviewand just a reminder, you can
also support this podcast onPatreon. Here's our
(02:08):
conversation.
Thank you so much for being aguest on First Coat. Can you
tell us who you are and what youdo?
Manuel Mansylla (02:16):
Of course, my name is Manuel Mansylla. People
know me as Manman, ManuelMansylla. M-A-N-M-A-N and I'm a
designer and an architect. And Ifocus mainly on modular toolkits
for public spaces. And we canget into that, you know, further
as we as we get on with theconversation.
Stephanie Eche (02:37):
What realm would you say that you work in most?
Manuel Mansylla (02:40):
I think public space has been sort of like a,
like a recurring theme and sortof like the principal area of
focus throughout my career. Butwe've done our share of, you
know, I guess, outdoor outdoorspaces as well in privately on
spaces, and, you know, quite a,quite a bit of public artwork as
(03:02):
well.
Stephanie Eche (03:03):
How did you start designing for public
space?
Manuel Mansylla (03:05):
You know, I was I was I was reading through your
questions. And I was I wasthinking back at the, you know,
what I, what I would call thebeginning of my career, at least
in New York City was somethingthat I that I kind of fell into,
it happened kind ofinadvertently, because I guess
I've always been interested andfascinated by the intersection
(03:28):
of design and public space in away, you know, this idea of, of
people, you know, sort of likeenacting their right to be
participants in the creation ofa city through the creation of
either art or public spaces. Andso, you know, it was it was
around 2008 when I was doing amaster's in Urban Design at
(03:51):
Pratt, I got my first internshipat a at a business improvement
district in DUMBO. And so wewere talking about doing I mean,
placemaking was it was kind oflike a new thing back then,
right? And so, and that's sortof like, I think it was also a
little bit of a zeitgeist of thetimes that we were going through
(04:13):
with some of the other thingsthat were happening, I guess
that economic prices also playeda big role in people having more
time and less resources. I feellike those were very
symptomatic, right and suddenly,you know, finding ourselves in a
in a neighborhood that that hada community but by many was seen
as not a neighborhood right. Andand so this idea of starting to
(04:38):
create public spaces with verylittle time and very little
resources in a collaborative wayis is something that I that I
got really interested on earlyon but but not in a gorilla sort
of way you know, but more in alegitimized way. You know where
where it was, it was happeningthrough the city agency or
(05:02):
agencies, right through thebusiness improvement district,
and talking together with, youknow, some of the other city
agencies like the Department ofTransportation or the parks
department, right. And so, youknow, making them aware of the
needs of a new and sort of likegrowing residential community in
a place that was transitioningfrom the post industrial to a
(05:24):
residential. Right. And it wasright at that time, because it
coincided with with a rezoningof a big chunk of Dumbo at that,
at that time.
Stephanie Eche (05:34):
So what was one of the first projects you worked
on?
Manuel Mansylla (05:37):
It's funny, I was also thinking about that,
and the Pearl Street Triangleseems like, like the epicenter
of everything, right. And eventoday, I guess, if you, if you
if you punch in, you know,placemaking, on Google, you'll,
you'll get the Pearl Streettriangle as one of the top hits,
right? It's so bizarre, like, ifI think about it, you know, back
like, like, a lot of people werevery, like, very against the
(06:00):
idea of creating a public space,or turning a parking lot into, a
public space, right? Like,people were like, "What are you
guys trying to do?" First ofall, was like, "Where is this?"
And "What are you trying to do?"And that their third question
is, "Why?" Like, why do you guyswant to do this? Like, who would
ever want to sit there? Like,who would ever want to spend,
(06:22):
you know, a lunch or coffee? Youknow, at that's in that space?
Right? And, and I guess he was,Tucker Reed, my partner who was
the head of the BusinessImprovement District, and
Jeanette Sadik-Khan, who wasstill at the Department of
Transportation, who actually,you know, started to talk about
this idea. And, and, you know,she saw, it was either because
(06:43):
she believed in the idea, orbecause Tucker wouldn't stop
calling her or a combination oftwo, right? I'm sure it lies
somewhere in between, somewherein the middle, right? And they
finally told us all right, goahead. We'll call it a
temporary, you know, a temporaryproject. And yes, you know, just
just go ahead, it's most likelynot gonna work. But, you know,
(07:04):
it's like, go do it. And it wasliterally, Tucker, myself, you
know, it was somebody to otherpeople at the bid. And we were
like, literally painting, youknow, that triangle. On a Friday
afternoon, we bought like twocases of beer and we invited
some of the other communityfolks to like, comfort some of
the other artists and communityfolks to come and help out. And
(07:26):
it became, you know, what I,what I then like to describe as
my own definition ofplacemaking. The way that I
think about it is, is you know,this idea of the stone soup,
right? It's like, if you'refamiliar with the story of the
stone soup is like this kidwho's walking through a forest
and knocks on some, you know,some stranger's hut and says,
(07:48):
Oh, can I borrow? Can youplease, you know, come in and
borrow your kitchen, because Iwant to boil this stone and make
myself a stone soup. This oldlady's like, what a crazy idea
and what a curious little boy,but sure, come in and ask, he's
like boiling his stone, or hislittle rock, he, he's like, Oh,
I see that you have someleftover, you know, scallions
(08:08):
and, and, and kind of borrow apinch of salt. And, you know,
before you know, it, he's likeputting a bunch of things into a
soup, and the soup starts tosmell really, really good. And
the lady starts to get more andmore involved. And before you
know, she's called her friends.
And it becomes a party, right.
And so this idea of how you canprompt people with an
opportunity to collaborate andstart bringing their own
(08:30):
thinking and their own resourcesinto a space, right, or a meal,
right, and how that sort oflike, develops new ideas, new
spaces, new events, but moreimportantly, new connections
among people. And I think thatthose connections are long
lasting, and sometimes lasts,you know, even longer, then the
(08:52):
spaces or the events themselves,but most of the times are
ephemeral, like, here, we aretalking, you know, I'm talking
about Tucker and JanetteSadik-Khan, you know, we still
have these stories that connectus, you know, because of this
moment, and this, this spacethat happened, right, and those
connections and thoserelationships, you know,
(09:13):
sometimes out there the spaceseven though the Pearl Street
Triangle was a very successfulspace and still is, it's it's
very loved and cherished by thatcommunity.
Stephanie Eche (09:23):
Yeah, it's definitely my cat's crying. You
want to say hi Quique?
Manuel Mansylla (09:27):
Hello!
Stephanie Eche (09:29):
Pearl Street Triangle with something- my
office was right by there. So itwas something that I really
liked going to and it was justsuch a casual way to be in
public space with other people.
And I think that's maybe a goodit's kind of like with all
design like when you don'tnotice it. That's how you know
it's been done really well whenit's just really seamless and
easy to access and feels reallycomfortable. And I think Dumbo
(09:54):
has been an interesting placemore recently because I haven't
been over there lately sincewe've been moved. And I know a
lot of people have moved out ofthe building we were in
specifically. So I'm, I'mcurious how those spaces are
continuing but all the parksaround by the water, basically
like the socializing that youcould be in public space, and
you can beautify or kind of makethese small upgrades to
(10:17):
something that otherwise it'sjust like concrete or a parking
lot sometimes helps create otherthings around it that now seems
so normal in DUMBO, but weren'teven expected to be a thing.
Manuel Mansylla (10:31):
Right, not only fill a void, but it also sort of
like lurd a very strongboundary, which was the train,
right, between, you know, sortof, like, the east and west side
of the neighborhood. Right. And,I think that with a lot of the
(10:51):
of the more successful examplesof placemaking, you know, like,
to your question about what isthe successful, you know,
placemaking project, I thinkthat when it spreads when it
becomes contagious, right,because how the Pearl Street
Triangle triggered than theopening of the archway, right?
Because it became evident, notonly that people would go, and
that people would use it, andthe people would help grow it.
(11:13):
Right. But it also, you know,pointed to other opportunities
around it, right, like, why notreopen the archways that had
been closed for like decades,right. And now, that becomes,
you know, another key to thispuzzle, right? And how you then
start to add the city bikes toit, and, you know, new furniture
(11:34):
and new greenery and eventuallybecomes a capital project, which
I believe is going to close oneof those two street, either
Pearl Street or the other onenext to it'll be a real Plaza
right? After geez, 20 years orso.
Stephanie Eche (11:50):
Something that started temporary can now be
something that will bemaintained, for hopefully ever.
I like what you said about whynot? Like, I think a lot of
times these small interventions,help people question why not do
this, why not do that, why nottry this, as opposed to just not
thinking about it, because thereare so many spaces that both of
(12:11):
us probably walk by every day,or everyone listening probably
walks by every day, and youjust, you just assume like
that's gonna stay closed, orthat parking lots always going
to be a parking lot, or we'renever going to have a park here.
But sometimes just doing a smallthing can help just be the
impetus to get people thinking,why not try this? Which brings
me to the DOT Street seats? Canyou tell us a little bit about
(12:35):
just what is it and what haveyou done to to work on, to
create it and mold that.
Manuel Mansylla (12:41):
Sure. And you know, it's funny, because it's
it's all as you'll see, as we aswe go through this, you know,
interview, it's all part of onestory, right? Because what
happened was when Tucker moved,from being the BD at the
Business Improvement District inDUMBO, he then become the
president of the downtownBrooklyn partnership in downtown
(13:03):
Brooklyn. Downtown Brooklyn, atthe time, this must have been
like, 2012, if my memory servesme, right, maybe maybe a little
bit later, maybe like 2015.
Downtown Brooklyn back then wasvery different. Right. And so we
were really thinking of how wecould activate some of the
streets that were, you know, youthere wasn't really that much
(13:26):
going on and downtown Brooklyn,to the nearest like, public
space, it didn't have that manypublic space. So what can we do
with all these side streets,right. And so the idea of
parklets, which was really goingin places like San Francisco,
but not so much in New YorkCity, came about, but the way
that that folks were thinkingabout parklets back then was
(13:49):
more of like an opportunity toshowcase how designers, you know
how good designers were right?
And so you would see these verybeautiful, but very, you know,
intricate, sort of, likeparklets popping up, you know,
in places like San Franciscoright, but, but it wasn't, you
know, it wasn't anything, youknow, at least from what I found
(14:12):
at the time, it wasn't anythingthat could be grown at scale and
it wasn't that affordable. Youknow, it wasn't like, like
really cost effective to makesuch a sophisticated and
intricate installation,especially in downtown Brooklyn,
we didn't really have that muchof a budget for it. So, I
started looking at you know,this idea of modularity, right
(14:32):
and so, I came up with you know,what I like to call either like
a Lego kit approach to parkletsright. In the hat, I had some
you know, like, like in my mind,I had some like, very basic
guidelines, you know, it shouldbe it should be done with with
off the shelf components thatyou know, you most likely would
find in like a Home Depot orLowe's Right? Like it should be
(14:55):
put together with very simpletools but someone who is not
like highly skilled or trainingin any way, like anyone with
like a power drill should beable to put this thing together,
right. And more, mostimportantly, you shouldn't need
to, like chase me down, youknow, if you ever need to repair
something, or maintain it, likeit should be very easy to
maintain, and it should be veryeasy to repair and that those
(15:17):
were sort of like the guidingprinciples to the design. So we
put together this proposal tobuild not one, but three of
them, and they weren't not goingto be one parking spot long, but
twice as long. So you know, it'svery, very ambitious, right?
Like, we put together thesethree massive parklets. And we
put them, you know, on threeparallel streets in downtown
(15:39):
Brooklyn, and, you know, it waslike, again, it was some of the
locations, people were like, whywould you put like some seating
here, like, who's gonna sitthere? It's like the, because
this is the streets where you,you didn't see that much people
like walking around or doingstuff, right. And so there were
a lot of skeptics, right and itwas a smashing success, you
know, like, every day you wouldwalk by, and you would find
(16:01):
people like having lunch thereor having coffee or doing a
little bit of work. So it was itwas really, really successful as
a placemaking, or public spaceactivation. And, you know, I
think that it was less than ayear after we had unveiled those
parklets in downtown Brooklynpartnership, that the Department
of Transportation, the head ofthe of the Nick Pierson, who was
(16:23):
the head of the of the plazaprogram at DOT at the time,
reached out and said, Manman, wewant to work with you in
developing a standard design forthe street seats program
citywide. It really, they reallylike the design that we have
done for the for the Brooklynpartnership, and wanted to sort
(16:46):
of like iterate on it, to comeup with a design for you know,
the city. And that's how westarted working together with
everyone at the department in ain, you know, something that
must have been like a three orfour month design engagement so
that we could design and buildthe first three prototypes, I
think for the for the standardstreet seats program that got
(17:09):
deployed in East New York.
Stephanie Eche (17:11):
You talked a little bit about guerrilla
placemaking initiatives. But whycan't people just do whatever
they want on a street?
Manuel Mansylla (17:19):
You know, that's a pretty good question. I
like the idea of legitimizingsome of these processes, just
because in my mind, that's howthey get codified into policy.
That's how they get enacted intomedium term and long term
decisions about places andcommunities. So to me, it's it's
(17:39):
always been important to do itunder the wing of a city agency
and in collaboration with othercity agencies, right? Because I
think that that's how that's howyou get long lasting impact when
it comes to how these things,you know, go go from temporary
or provisional, temporary, tosemi permanent to permanent,
(18:00):
right.
Stephanie Eche (18:01):
But what are some issues that would come up
if everyone were just doingwhatever on the street, which,
right now is kind of what justhappened this past year of
restaurants and such. But like,for example, I've noticed more
incidents with like getting outof a car, or a cab, an Uber or
Lyft. And if the restaurant hastheir seating out where the
(18:25):
parking spaces would be, andthere's no protected bike lane,
then there's more chance thatyou're going to hit a biker, if
you like, the space for abicyclist is much smaller, when
there aren't regulations abouthow far out something could be
or I mean, obviously, peoplecomplain about parking with
parklets. Just having less fewerparking spaces when the parking
(18:49):
spaces are taken up by thingslike street seats or parklets,
or restaurant seating. Why doyou think it's important to have
these regulations? Or what whatwould it prevent? I guess, if we
didn't have them?
Manuel Mansylla (19:02):
I look, I've always been, you know, like a
big believer that regulations orin this case limitations are
only beneficial to, tocreativity. It is within those
constraints that creativityflourishes. And so I think that,
that a lot of thought needs tobe needs to go into all of these
(19:25):
aspects. And when you and we andwhen you create a situation,
whether willingly orunwillingly, you know, where
where anything goes, you thenstart running into those
problems. And that's why it'salways been my philosophy to
work together with the city andwithin, you know, the city's
constraints to come up with themore distilled no pun intended
(19:49):
solution for, you know, thesetypes of approaches, right,
which are necessary, it doesn'tmean to mean that there they
would be limited in any way orthat they would be that they
would be less than what wouldcome about if those constraints
or those limitations or thoseguidelines weren't there? Right.
So it's just a matter of workingwith them in order to sort of
(20:11):
like come up with a with asolution that benefits not one
specific industry, but thepopulation at large.
Stephanie Eche (20:18):
How do you think COVID-19 has- well, the pandemic
in general, has affected publicspaces?
Manuel Mansylla (20:24):
That's a super, that's a really great question.
And obviously, I think, youknow, folks, like you and me
have been thinking about thisfor a long time, and I don't
think that we've seen all thechanges that are gonna come out
of this, I think we're startingto see some changes, right?
Because, you know, I think Ithink what we've seen so far,
(20:45):
you know, like, like, a year anda half into it, is very
reactionary is like somethingthat came out of great
necessity, right, you know,responding to a crises, and it
has led to a lot of, you know, alot of really good ideas and
has, and has proven that a lotof the things that were taboo to
(21:08):
the city, suddenly, you know,like things like parking, or the
lack of parking, right, or, orthings like, you know, sheds or
covers over parklets or, orstreet seats, right, like things
that could not be talked aboutor mentioned before, suddenly,
they're okay. And the citydidn't go into chaos, or, you
(21:28):
know, there was there was nopanic because of these things,
right. Like, then they sort oflike help prove that maybe there
is a way to incorporate thesethings right. Now, on the other
hand, you do see a lot of thingsthat were that were put together
in a very sort of like, yeah, ina very nilly willy way. And so,
(21:53):
a lot of, you know, you see somebeautiful examples of design and
architecture, right. But in manycases, you see things that are
either, they're not great froman aesthetic standpoint, but
they're also not safe, you know,from from, like, a structural
integrity standpoint, right? Andthat's something that that is a
(22:13):
big no, no, for me, right? It'slike, how do you ensure that a
lot of these structures aresafe? And how do you make sure
that they don't, that they'renot gonna look like, you know,
shanty towns in X number ofmonths or years? Right. And I
think that that's reallyimportant. And that's, that's
why having, you know, specificguidelines and parameters in
(22:36):
place is important.
Stephanie Eche (22:38):
Definitely. What do you think is the future of
public spaces?
Manuel Mansylla (22:43):
Well, I think just taking that thought, a
little bit further, is like, youknow, what comes after
reactionary? Right, what comesafter ephemeral? Right, what
comes after, you know, we've hadtime to sort of, like, analyze,
and think through what we'veseen so far, as far as
everything that has been putforward, how people have reacted
(23:07):
to it, how the city hasresponded, or, or sort of, like,
dealt with it, right, in a way?
And how do you combine all ofthat into, you know, new ideas,
new designs and new programs,right, either because you're
going to create new ones, oryou're going to build on
existing ones, and just amplifythem? Or extend them? Or, or
(23:28):
sort of like, iterate on them?
Right? And I think, you know, Ilike to think of it as a sort of
like a movie set, right, whereright now is sort of, like
you're walking through a movieset, and it's a sort of like a
resemblance of our reality thatcould be or will be. And that's
(23:50):
really exciting to me, it's likewhat's gonna come next, once,
once the spaces and these sortof, like, modules evolved to,
to, in many ways, right, notonly from the magical reality of
it, right? You know, where yousee a lot of things are put
together with, with inexpensivematerials, and, you know,
(24:10):
they're, they're pretty muchdisposable, like you might mind
right, but what is the next sortof like, the the next iteration
of that, that look like fromfrom a material standpoint, but
also from a user- a userexperience standpoint, like to
give you one, one example, youknow, we're now collaborating
with with a really greatpartner, where we are building
(24:32):
an outdoor dining structure,designing an outdoor dining
structure that will be shared,you know, between a wine bar
next door in a coffee shop, youknow, and they're thinking about
incorporating things like bike,bike racks, or bike parking, and
also, you know, like trashreceptacles, like something like
your trash corral, right. And sothe idea of adding more features
(24:54):
to it, and also sharing it withother users or other activities
or you uses is very exciting tome, as far as how I see the the
evolution of what may come next.
Stephanie Eche (25:08):
Yeah, going from that temporary to semi permanent
and then having more sharedinfrastructure. I'm, I'm excited
to hopefully see more outdoorworking opportunities. I think
that's something that has alwaysbeen, I don't know just kind of
ignored, like, no electricity,no internet in the outdoor area.
(25:30):
And so it's hard to spend moretime there. But now that we can
kind of spend more time in aspace creating more like
weatherproof areas where youhave like an indoor outdoor
experience, which you know, inother places is very normal, but
in New York City is not becauseof our weather, but I was just
in Mexico City and it's like,literally everywhere you can be
(25:50):
inside, outside, semi-insidesemi-outside, and it's it's just
their climate is more conduciveto, to that kind of design where
you can actually invest in thatkind of space, because it's,
you're not going to get snowedon every year. But at the same
time, they still deal with a lotof rain. But it also doesn't get
(26:11):
very cold ever. So I think insome ways, New York City has
more we just have moreparameters to deal with and how
we create spaces that areoutdoors or semi outdoor spaces.
Manuel Mansylla (26:24):
Yeah. And my other partner Viviane Liao
always says there's no suchthing as bad weather. There's
just that clothing. But yes, toyour point, I think the idea of
bringing power to some of theseoutdoor installations or
modules, and, and you know, thatleads to some other really
(26:44):
exciting opportunities, right,because I think that the
connection with other activitiessuch as outdoor, you know, work
and or outdoor exercising,right, and it's exciting, but I
think it's there's another,another opportunity with how
these things tie into micromobility, that I think it's
really, really exciting. And sosome of the work that we're
(27:07):
doing with our sister companyOonee is also super exciting,
right? And we'll see some veryexciting updates coming in the
in the near future with thatone, as well.
Stephanie Eche (27:19):
Do you want to talk about fast casual?
Manuel Mansylla (27:21):
Yeah, in line with these modular outdoor
activity toolkits, we've createdone that is specifically geared
towards the restaurant industry.
But also, you know, there'spossibility of doing outdoor
work, you know, like an outdooroffice, as well, you know, which
I think has a lot of potential,like, you were saying, you know,
(27:44):
why couldn't there be thesetypes of modules where you can,
you know, sit down, do some workyou, you have, you know, a
charger for your computer oryour phone, right, and you have,
you know, a nice, comfortabledesk to sit on, and some shape
right, during the warmer months.
So we designed this flexibleactivity module coasts called
(28:05):
PASS schedule. And, you know,the idea there is, how can you
create such an amenity that, youknow, people would want to hold
on to, as opposed to, you know,the disposable version of it,
and have it redeployed, youknow, every season pretty much
like how you do it with streetseats or a parklet. And so
(28:25):
instead of thinking, what can Ido as fast and when with as
little money as possible, andthen I'm either going to have to
keep retrofitting it or addingto it or taking from it because,
you know, it's funny how inlooking how the evolution of by
woodshed, right is it went from,you know, like a plywood parklet
to a plywood shed to a winterlog cabin. And every time they
(28:51):
would, you will see the samecouple of guys coming with more
and more plywood, adding ortaking from it because then you
know, once the the year camearound, you know, it's like, now
they're taking off layers. Sothey're either taking panels off
or they're taking the roof offor so it's funny how that
evolution so instead of seeingthat, where you have these sort
of like Frankensteins, it's allover the place is like one
(29:14):
system that is that is additivethat is designed to change with
the season or change with auser. And, you know, to be
adaptable. To give you oneexample, we've had this one
instance with with one of ourlocations where the DOT had to
have to repave Broadway, soeverybody on Broadway and that
(29:34):
stretch of Broadway had to moveliterally move their outdoor
dining structures in like, youknow, a couple of days right
hours to five hours to move itand we actually moved it to the
side side street and it wasfine. It was is designed for
that but a lot of the outdoordining structures you know, were
were either you know, damaged orcompletely destroyed because
(29:58):
they're not designed to be movedlike that.
Stephanie Eche (30:00):
Do you have any deployed right now?
Manuel Mansylla (30:01):
Yes, we have a coffee shop called, Foreigner,
in our own district. We have onein Krispy Kreme in Thai Square
with the 48th Street location.
And we have another one at theDaily Provisions in the Upper
West Side on 78th and Amsterdam,and we have a couple more
coming, that will be announcedin the next couple of weeks
later in the fall.
Stephanie Eche (30:22):
Awesome. Well, I'll definitely put links to
those addresses and to FastCasual in the show notes so
people can check it out. Givenyour your work in public space,
how would you define a reallygood public space? Or what
should every public space have?
Manuel Mansylla (30:35):
That's a really good question. I mean, let me
put it this way, the spaces thatI like to hang out in will be
very diverse in nature, likewhen you see a combination of
all kinds of folks like doingall kinds of activities, and
people really making their ownlittle version of a public
space, right. And what thatmeans is using it in their own
(30:58):
personal, intimate way, is whatI think counts for a good public
space. Right. But there's alsosomething to be said about the
design. And you mentionedsomething about design that is
good is just sort of likebecomes invisible. But there's,
there's a lot to be said aboutprogramming. And we touched on
(31:19):
it a little bit before when youwere saying, oh, you know, what
is it about guerrilla that thatyou don't like, right? And and I
think programming is somethingthat is sometimes overlooked
when it comes to placement,because as designers, and I'm
sure you know this we take a lotof heat sometimes when when
people say, oh, you know, butyou were involved in the design
(31:39):
of this public space and nowit's, it's led to all of these,
like negative uses and negativeaspects in our neighborhood.
It's like, yeah, but that hasabsolutely nothing to do with my
design, it has to do with theprogramming of the space, you
guys forgot about it. Nobody,you know, nobody ever went back
and attained it or made sure toactivate it in a positive way.
(32:00):
And so it's taken over bynegative, you know, activities
and negative uses. Right. Andso, I think that back to, you
know, what, what becomes asuccessful or positive public
space is something that, youknow, is constantly activated
with good uses and goodprogramming, basically.
Stephanie Eche (32:18):
Right. Yeah. And that takes money, which I think
is something that is sometimesmaybe not forgotten, but pushed
till the end of the budget,right. Like there's, there's
this budget upfront for thedesign, and implementation, but
then it's not thought about,like what happens in one year,
two years, three years, fiveyears, and both from a
maintenance perspective for anyany kind of structure or public
(32:41):
art or anything, but then,especially programming, I mean,
ideally, you would have thisthriving space, that kind of
programs on its own, but even aplace like Washington Square
Park has, like 2030 littlegroups that do their own
programming. And that's why it'sso activated. It's not, it may
not be like a city run thingnecessarily, or one bid running
(33:04):
the whole thing. But it's theselittle pockets of groups
creating their own littlecommunities that make it so
vibrant. And I think it takesstirring the pot to actually get
that going. And usually thatthat takes money to actually
start not that you need a lot ofmoney to do programming, but you
need, you need at least a personwho was going to want to create
(33:25):
activities in the space. Andsomething that I've seen a lot
of space in that I've donemyself in spaces is just
utilizing the existingcommunities because there's
always a community in any place,and usually many different
communities doing things likethe soccer club is there, like
kids need a place to playsoccer, or there's a group of
(33:47):
moms that want to have like,baby play time, or just there's
a yoga studio down the street.
And all of these people usuallywould love the opportunity to
use a public space. It's just,it's one of those like, why not
things where you don't reallythink about it. And then once
you see someone doing yoga in te park, you're like, oh, yeah
we should, we should also do yga in the park. But then some
people might think like, welldo I need a permit? Or like
(34:08):
am I allowed to do that. Andn every place, it's diff
rent, but just having that persn who actually does the thin
, I think can really help othepeople start doing things, whic
is one way to get around notaving a large budget of prog
amming, just utilizing what exiss in the area. Yeah. What are
ome resources that have helpd you along the way in doin
what you do?
Manuel Mansylla (34:31):
You know, just an insatiable curiosity, to hear
other people's thoughts onsomething, you know, because I
think that to your previousquestion, right, or to your
previous point aboutprogramming, right, I think
that, you know, what I've alwaysenjoy about placemaking or my
(34:52):
own placemaking projects is, isthis sort of like booby trap
quality to them, right? It'slike, prompting what that means
is like the act of likeprompting people with an
opportunity to get involved inthe creation of a space or a
thing, right. And so what thathappens is, you know, you
(35:12):
oftentimes you get surprisedwith, with folks who maybe
you've never been asked andsuddenly come up with, like,
brilliant ideas, right? But whenthose ideas are enacted, then
you have a collabortor, you have, you know, yo
have a steward for life forthat space, right. And I think
hat that, you know, goes a lng way, right, because as a des
(35:34):
gner, I'm going to, I'm going toleave, I'm going to move on
o my next project. But if a grop of people, these local ch
mpions, you know, that you werementioning, take ownershi
of the space, they'll make surto not only demonstr
te the positive uses, but to b, you know, very opiniona
ed, about, you know, not usinit in a in a negative way. And
(35:56):
I think that that's, that's,hat's really important. So this
dea of, of using placemakng, as an excuse to bring pe
ple together so that they canshare their ideas, and then tho
e ideas, you know, will sort ofike plant the seeds to whatever
what will happen in that spae is, is what I would call, yo
know, an important resourceright? So, use people as resou
(36:20):
ces.
Stephanie Eche (36:21):
Definitely. Is there anything that you've read
or listened to, or watched tht's inspired you recen
Manuel Mansylla (36:27):
Yeah, I do quite a fair bit amount of
people watching and you know,what I walk the streets and look
Well, thank you so much forchatting with us, chatting with
at, you know, how how folks aregoing about their day, and the
sort of like ideas andcreativity that are seen in the
reason, months is reallyinspirational to me, you know,
in terms of how much people haveadapted, and have had changed
(36:50):
their lifestyles and their waysof commuting and being outside
and being with their familiesand sort of like, absorbing,
me today. I'm excited foreveryone to hear this interview.
experiencing and using theirneighborhoods is very inspiring
to me. And I think that thatwill, that will lead to, but
it's already leading to a sortof Renaissance when it comes to
how cities are going to shapethemselves in the not so distan
(37:14):
future. And I think, you know,here's some really big change
And where can our listeners findyou online?
coming, when it comes to microobility and how people are mo
ing in cities, that is goingo be really, really exciti g.
(37:35):
You guys can go to any of theFantastica, like Fantastica
Brooklyn, on Instagram, there'sa lot more coming with Oonee on
od pot. And I think that's alsoa good place to follow, you
know, the work and projects. Butyou know, an email saying hello,
also works.
Stephanie Eche (37:55):
Awesome. Well, I'll put those links in the show
notes. Thank you again. It'sbeen great to chat.
Manuel Mansylla (38:01):
It was super cool to talk to you, Stephanie.
Keep up the good work, okay?
Stephanie Eche (38:05):
Thanks for listening to this episode of
First Coat. If you like thispodcast, please leave a review.
Make sure to subscribe to theFirst Coat podcast wherever you
listen to podcasts and follow uson Instagram @firstcoatpodcast
or @distillcreative. First Coatis a production of my company
Distill Creative. Check us outat distillcreative.com
Welcome to First Coat, where we explore public
art, how it's made and why itmatters. I'm your host Stephanie
Eche, an artist and artconsultant based in Brooklyn,
New York. I interview artists,cultural producers, designers
and funders on how art in publicspace happens, and how to create
more equitable and inclusiveprojects in public space. I also
(00:21):
share my tips on how to curateand commissioned art projects
for your business, how I run myart consulting business, Distill
Creative, and how I'm developingmy own art practice. You can
listen to this episode, whereveryou listen to podcasts, or watch
it on YouTube. If you like whatyou hear, please leave a review
and support this project onPatreon. I produce edit and,
(00:42):
well, do everything myself soyour support keeps this project
going. If you're interested inmy art consulting services or
artwork, check outdistillcreative.com. Thanks so
much for listening and I hopeyou enjoy this episode. This
week on First Coat, we have J.
Manuel Mansylla also known asManman. Manman is principal of
Fantastica, leading placemakingdesign and branding projects.
(01:03):
Fantastica specializes intransformative projects to
vitalize underutilized assetsand unlock economic potential.
Manman has worked on thecreation of the first New York
City Department ofTransportation, DOT, public
plaza in Dumbo is Pearl Streettriangle development of the
citywide standard for DOT streetseats with locations in downtown
Brooklyn, Park Slope, HudsonYards and East New York, the
(01:25):
design of outdoor spaces for theDumbo Heights development in the
Brooklyn Tech triangle as wellas many other projects. He's
also a co-founder of Oonee, asmart, modular, customizable pod
that provides secure parking forScooters and bicycles, as well
as public space amenities. Ooneeis currently raising money on
Republic so, if you'reinterested, you can find the
link in the show notes. In thisepisode, we talked about how we
(01:47):
can co-create more vibrantpublic spaces, the impact of
COVID-19 on public spaces, andhow to transform short term
public space experiments intolong term policies so we can all
have better public spaces. Ifyou like this podcast, please
let me know by leaving a reviewand just a reminder, you can
also support this podcast onPatreon. Here's our
(02:08):
conversation.
Thank you so much for being aguest on First Coat. Can you
tell us who you are and what youdo?
Manuel Mansylla (02:16):
Of course, my name is Manuel Mansylla. People
know me as Manman, ManuelMansylla. M-A-N-M-A-N and I'm a
designer and an architect. And Ifocus mainly on modular toolkits
for public spaces. And we canget into that, you know, further
as we as we get on with theconversation.
Stephanie Eche (02:37):
What realm would you say that you work in most?
Manuel Mansylla (02:40):
I think public space has been sort of like a,
like a recurring theme and sortof like the principal area of
focus throughout my career. Butwe've done our share of, you
know, I guess, outdoor outdoorspaces as well in privately on
spaces, and, you know, quite a,quite a bit of public artwork as
(03:02):
well.
Stephanie Eche (03:03):
How did you start designing for public
space?
Manuel Mansylla (03:05):
You know, I was I was I was reading through your
questions. And I was I wasthinking back at the, you know,
what I, what I would call thebeginning of my career, at least
in New York City was somethingthat I that I kind of fell into,
it happened kind ofinadvertently, because I guess
I've always been interested andfascinated by the intersection
(03:28):
of design and public space in away, you know, this idea of, of
people, you know, sort of likeenacting their right to be
participants in the creation ofa city through the creation of
either art or public spaces. Andso, you know, it was it was
around 2008 when I was doing amaster's in Urban Design at
(03:51):
Pratt, I got my first internshipat a at a business improvement
district in DUMBO. And so wewere talking about doing I mean,
placemaking was it was kind oflike a new thing back then,
right? And so, and that's sortof like, I think it was also a
little bit of a zeitgeist of thetimes that we were going through
(04:13):
with some of the other thingsthat were happening, I guess
that economic prices also playeda big role in people having more
time and less resources. I feellike those were very
symptomatic, right and suddenly,you know, finding ourselves in a
in a neighborhood that that hada community but by many was seen
as not a neighborhood right. Andand so this idea of starting to
(04:38):
create public spaces with verylittle time and very little
resources in a collaborative wayis is something that I that I
got really interested on earlyon but but not in a gorilla sort
of way you know, but more in alegitimized way. You know where
where it was, it was happeningthrough the city agency or
(05:02):
agencies, right through thebusiness improvement district,
and talking together with, youknow, some of the other city
agencies like the Department ofTransportation or the parks
department, right. And so, youknow, making them aware of the
needs of a new and sort of likegrowing residential community in
a place that was transitioningfrom the post industrial to a
(05:24):
residential. Right. And it wasright at that time, because it
coincided with with a rezoningof a big chunk of Dumbo at that,
at that time.
Stephanie Eche (05:34):
So what was one of the first projects you worked
on?
Manuel Mansylla (05:37):
It's funny, I was also thinking about that,
and the Pearl Street Triangleseems like, like the epicenter
of everything, right. And eventoday, I guess, if you, if you
if you punch in, you know,placemaking, on Google, you'll,
you'll get the Pearl Streettriangle as one of the top hits,
right? It's so bizarre, like, ifI think about it, you know, back
like, like, a lot of people werevery, like, very against the
(06:00):
idea of creating a public space,or turning a parking lot into, a
public space, right? Like,people were like, "What are you
guys trying to do?" First ofall, was like, "Where is this?"
And "What are you trying to do?"And that their third question
is, "Why?" Like, why do you guyswant to do this? Like, who would
ever want to sit there? Like,who would ever want to spend,
(06:22):
you know, a lunch or coffee? Youknow, at that's in that space?
Right? And, and I guess he was,Tucker Reed, my partner who was
the head of the BusinessImprovement District, and
Jeanette Sadik-Khan, who wasstill at the Department of
Transportation, who actually,you know, started to talk about
this idea. And, and, you know,she saw, it was either because
(06:43):
she believed in the idea, orbecause Tucker wouldn't stop
calling her or a combination oftwo, right? I'm sure it lies
somewhere in between, somewherein the middle, right? And they
finally told us all right, goahead. We'll call it a
temporary, you know, a temporaryproject. And yes, you know, just
just go ahead, it's most likelynot gonna work. But, you know,
(07:04):
it's like, go do it. And it wasliterally, Tucker, myself, you
know, it was somebody to otherpeople at the bid. And we were
like, literally painting, youknow, that triangle. On a Friday
afternoon, we bought like twocases of beer and we invited
some of the other communityfolks to like, comfort some of
the other artists and communityfolks to come and help out. And
(07:26):
it became, you know, what I,what I then like to describe as
my own definition ofplacemaking. The way that I
think about it is, is you know,this idea of the stone soup,
right? It's like, if you'refamiliar with the story of the
stone soup is like this kidwho's walking through a forest
and knocks on some, you know,some stranger's hut and says,
(07:48):
Oh, can I borrow? Can youplease, you know, come in and
borrow your kitchen, because Iwant to boil this stone and make
myself a stone soup. This oldlady's like, what a crazy idea
and what a curious little boy,but sure, come in and ask, he's
like boiling his stone, or hislittle rock, he, he's like, Oh,
I see that you have someleftover, you know, scallions
(08:08):
and, and, and kind of borrow apinch of salt. And, you know,
before you know, it, he's likeputting a bunch of things into a
soup, and the soup starts tosmell really, really good. And
the lady starts to get more andmore involved. And before you
know, she's called her friends.
And it becomes a party, right.
And so this idea of how you canprompt people with an
opportunity to collaborate andstart bringing their own
(08:30):
thinking and their own resourcesinto a space, right, or a meal,
right, and how that sort oflike, develops new ideas, new
spaces, new events, but moreimportantly, new connections
among people. And I think thatthose connections are long
lasting, and sometimes lasts,you know, even longer, then the
(08:52):
spaces or the events themselves,but most of the times are
ephemeral, like, here, we aretalking, you know, I'm talking
about Tucker and JanetteSadik-Khan, you know, we still
have these stories that connectus, you know, because of this
moment, and this, this spacethat happened, right, and those
connections and thoserelationships, you know,
(09:13):
sometimes out there the spaceseven though the Pearl Street
Triangle was a very successfulspace and still is, it's it's
very loved and cherished by thatcommunity.
Stephanie Eche (09:23):
Yeah, it's definitely my cat's crying. You
want to say hi Quique?
Manuel Mansylla (09:27):
Hello!
Stephanie Eche (09:29):
Pearl Street Triangle with something- my
office was right by there. So itwas something that I really
liked going to and it was justsuch a casual way to be in
public space with other people.
And I think that's maybe a goodit's kind of like with all
design like when you don'tnotice it. That's how you know
it's been done really well whenit's just really seamless and
easy to access and feels reallycomfortable. And I think Dumbo
(09:54):
has been an interesting placemore recently because I haven't
been over there lately sincewe've been moved. And I know a
lot of people have moved out ofthe building we were in
specifically. So I'm, I'mcurious how those spaces are
continuing but all the parksaround by the water, basically
like the socializing that youcould be in public space, and
you can beautify or kind of makethese small upgrades to
(10:17):
something that otherwise it'sjust like concrete or a parking
lot sometimes helps create otherthings around it that now seems
so normal in DUMBO, but weren'teven expected to be a thing.
Manuel Mansylla (10:31):
Right, not only fill a void, but it also sort of
like lurd a very strongboundary, which was the train,
right, between, you know, sortof, like, the east and west side
of the neighborhood. Right. And,I think that with a lot of the
(10:51):
of the more successful examplesof placemaking, you know, like,
to your question about what isthe successful, you know,
placemaking project, I thinkthat when it spreads when it
becomes contagious, right,because how the Pearl Street
Triangle triggered than theopening of the archway, right?
Because it became evident, notonly that people would go, and
that people would use it, andthe people would help grow it.
(11:13):
Right. But it also, you know,pointed to other opportunities
around it, right, like, why notreopen the archways that had
been closed for like decades,right. And now, that becomes,
you know, another key to thispuzzle, right? And how you then
start to add the city bikes toit, and, you know, new furniture
(11:34):
and new greenery and eventuallybecomes a capital project, which
I believe is going to close oneof those two street, either
Pearl Street or the other onenext to it'll be a real Plaza
right? After geez, 20 years orso.
Stephanie Eche (11:50):
Something that started temporary can now be
something that will bemaintained, for hopefully ever.
I like what you said about whynot? Like, I think a lot of
times these small interventions,help people question why not do
this, why not do that, why nottry this, as opposed to just not
thinking about it, because thereare so many spaces that both of
(12:11):
us probably walk by every day,or everyone listening probably
walks by every day, and youjust, you just assume like
that's gonna stay closed, orthat parking lots always going
to be a parking lot, or we'renever going to have a park here.
But sometimes just doing a smallthing can help just be the
impetus to get people thinking,why not try this? Which brings
me to the DOT Street seats? Canyou tell us a little bit about
(12:35):
just what is it and what haveyou done to to work on, to
create it and mold that.
Manuel Mansylla (12:41):
Sure. And you know, it's funny, because it's
it's all as you'll see, as we aswe go through this, you know,
interview, it's all part of onestory, right? Because what
happened was when Tucker moved,from being the BD at the
Business Improvement District inDUMBO, he then become the
president of the downtownBrooklyn partnership in downtown
(13:03):
Brooklyn. Downtown Brooklyn, atthe time, this must have been
like, 2012, if my memory servesme, right, maybe maybe a little
bit later, maybe like 2015.
Downtown Brooklyn back then wasvery different. Right. And so we
were really thinking of how wecould activate some of the
streets that were, you know, youthere wasn't really that much
(13:26):
going on and downtown Brooklyn,to the nearest like, public
space, it didn't have that manypublic space. So what can we do
with all these side streets,right. And so the idea of
parklets, which was really goingin places like San Francisco,
but not so much in New YorkCity, came about, but the way
that that folks were thinkingabout parklets back then was
(13:49):
more of like an opportunity toshowcase how designers, you know
how good designers were right?
And so you would see these verybeautiful, but very, you know,
intricate, sort of, likeparklets popping up, you know,
in places like San Franciscoright, but, but it wasn't, you
know, it wasn't anything, youknow, at least from what I found
(14:12):
at the time, it wasn't anythingthat could be grown at scale and
it wasn't that affordable. Youknow, it wasn't like, like
really cost effective to makesuch a sophisticated and
intricate installation,especially in downtown Brooklyn,
we didn't really have that muchof a budget for it. So, I
started looking at you know,this idea of modularity, right
(14:32):
and so, I came up with you know,what I like to call either like
a Lego kit approach to parkletsright. In the hat, I had some
you know, like, like in my mind,I had some like, very basic
guidelines, you know, it shouldbe it should be done with with
off the shelf components thatyou know, you most likely would
find in like a Home Depot orLowe's Right? Like it should be
(14:55):
put together with very simpletools but someone who is not
like highly skilled or trainingin any way, like anyone with
like a power drill should beable to put this thing together,
right. And more, mostimportantly, you shouldn't need
to, like chase me down, youknow, if you ever need to repair
something, or maintain it, likeit should be very easy to
maintain, and it should be veryeasy to repair and that those
(15:17):
were sort of like the guidingprinciples to the design. So we
put together this proposal tobuild not one, but three of
them, and they weren't not goingto be one parking spot long, but
twice as long. So you know, it'svery, very ambitious, right?
Like, we put together thesethree massive parklets. And we
put them, you know, on threeparallel streets in downtown
(15:39):
Brooklyn, and, you know, it waslike, again, it was some of the
locations, people were like, whywould you put like some seating
here, like, who's gonna sitthere? It's like the, because
this is the streets where you,you didn't see that much people
like walking around or doingstuff, right. And so there were
a lot of skeptics, right and itwas a smashing success, you
know, like, every day you wouldwalk by, and you would find
(16:01):
people like having lunch thereor having coffee or doing a
little bit of work. So it was itwas really, really successful as
a placemaking, or public spaceactivation. And, you know, I
think that it was less than ayear after we had unveiled those
parklets in downtown Brooklynpartnership, that the Department
of Transportation, the head ofthe of the Nick Pierson, who was
(16:23):
the head of the of the plazaprogram at DOT at the time,
reached out and said, Manman, wewant to work with you in
developing a standard design forthe street seats program
citywide. It really, they reallylike the design that we have
done for the for the Brooklynpartnership, and wanted to sort
(16:46):
of like iterate on it, to comeup with a design for you know,
the city. And that's how westarted working together with
everyone at the department in ain, you know, something that
must have been like a three orfour month design engagement so
that we could design and buildthe first three prototypes, I
think for the for the standardstreet seats program that got
(17:09):
deployed in East New York.
Stephanie Eche (17:11):
You talked a little bit about guerrilla
placemaking initiatives. But whycan't people just do whatever
they want on a street?
Manuel Mansylla (17:19):
You know, that's a pretty good question. I
like the idea of legitimizingsome of these processes, just
because in my mind, that's howthey get codified into policy.
That's how they get enacted intomedium term and long term
decisions about places andcommunities. So to me, it's it's
(17:39):
always been important to do itunder the wing of a city agency
and in collaboration with othercity agencies, right? Because I
think that that's how that's howyou get long lasting impact when
it comes to how these things,you know, go go from temporary
or provisional, temporary, tosemi permanent to permanent,
(18:00):
right.
Stephanie Eche (18:01):
But what are some issues that would come up
if everyone were just doingwhatever on the street, which,
right now is kind of what justhappened this past year of
restaurants and such. But like,for example, I've noticed more
incidents with like getting outof a car, or a cab, an Uber or
Lyft. And if the restaurant hastheir seating out where the
(18:25):
parking spaces would be, andthere's no protected bike lane,
then there's more chance thatyou're going to hit a biker, if
you like, the space for abicyclist is much smaller, when
there aren't regulations abouthow far out something could be
or I mean, obviously, peoplecomplain about parking with
parklets. Just having less fewerparking spaces when the parking
(18:49):
spaces are taken up by thingslike street seats or parklets,
or restaurant seating. Why doyou think it's important to have
these regulations? Or what whatwould it prevent? I guess, if we
didn't have them?
Manuel Mansylla (19:02):
I look, I've always been, you know, like a
big believer that regulations orin this case limitations are
only beneficial to, tocreativity. It is within those
constraints that creativityflourishes. And so I think that,
that a lot of thought needs tobe needs to go into all of these
(19:25):
aspects. And when you and we andwhen you create a situation,
whether willingly orunwillingly, you know, where
where anything goes, you thenstart running into those
problems. And that's why it'salways been my philosophy to
work together with the city andwithin, you know, the city's
constraints to come up with themore distilled no pun intended
(19:49):
solution for, you know, thesetypes of approaches, right,
which are necessary, it doesn'tmean to mean that there they
would be limited in any way orthat they would be that they
would be less than what wouldcome about if those constraints
or those limitations or thoseguidelines weren't there? Right.
So it's just a matter of workingwith them in order to sort of
(20:11):
like come up with a with asolution that benefits not one
specific industry, but thepopulation at large.
Stephanie Eche (20:18):
How do you think COVID-19 has- well, the pandemic
in general, has affected publicspaces?
Manuel Mansylla (20:24):
That's a super, that's a really great question.
And obviously, I think, youknow, folks, like you and me
have been thinking about thisfor a long time, and I don't
think that we've seen all thechanges that are gonna come out
of this, I think we're startingto see some changes, right?
Because, you know, I think Ithink what we've seen so far,
(20:45):
you know, like, like, a year anda half into it, is very
reactionary is like somethingthat came out of great
necessity, right, you know,responding to a crises, and it
has led to a lot of, you know, alot of really good ideas and
has, and has proven that a lotof the things that were taboo to
(21:08):
the city, suddenly, you know,like things like parking, or the
lack of parking, right, or, orthings like, you know, sheds or
covers over parklets or, orstreet seats, right, like things
that could not be talked aboutor mentioned before, suddenly,
they're okay. And the citydidn't go into chaos, or, you
(21:28):
know, there was there was nopanic because of these things,
right. Like, then they sort oflike help prove that maybe there
is a way to incorporate thesethings right. Now, on the other
hand, you do see a lot of thingsthat were that were put together
in a very sort of like, yeah, ina very nilly willy way. And so,
(21:53):
a lot of, you know, you see somebeautiful examples of design and
architecture, right. But in manycases, you see things that are
either, they're not great froman aesthetic standpoint, but
they're also not safe, you know,from from, like, a structural
integrity standpoint, right? Andthat's something that that is a
(22:13):
big no, no, for me, right? It'slike, how do you ensure that a
lot of these structures aresafe? And how do you make sure
that they don't, that they'renot gonna look like, you know,
shanty towns in X number ofmonths or years? Right. And I
think that that's reallyimportant. And that's, that's
why having, you know, specificguidelines and parameters in
(22:36):
place is important.
Stephanie Eche (22:38):
Definitely. What do you think is the future of
public spaces?
Manuel Mansylla (22:43):
Well, I think just taking that thought, a
little bit further, is like, youknow, what comes after
reactionary? Right, what comesafter ephemeral? Right, what
comes after, you know, we've hadtime to sort of, like, analyze,
and think through what we'veseen so far, as far as
everything that has been putforward, how people have reacted
(23:07):
to it, how the city hasresponded, or, or sort of, like,
dealt with it, right, in a way?
And how do you combine all ofthat into, you know, new ideas,
new designs and new programs,right, either because you're
going to create new ones, oryou're going to build on
existing ones, and just amplifythem? Or extend them? Or, or
(23:28):
sort of like, iterate on them?
Right? And I think, you know, Ilike to think of it as a sort of
like a movie set, right, whereright now is sort of, like
you're walking through a movieset, and it's a sort of like a
resemblance of our reality thatcould be or will be. And that's
(23:50):
really exciting to me, it's likewhat's gonna come next, once,
once the spaces and these sortof, like, modules evolved to,
to, in many ways, right, notonly from the magical reality of
it, right? You know, where yousee a lot of things are put
together with, with inexpensivematerials, and, you know,
(24:10):
they're, they're pretty muchdisposable, like you might mind
right, but what is the next sortof like, the the next iteration
of that, that look like fromfrom a material standpoint, but
also from a user- a userexperience standpoint, like to
give you one, one example, youknow, we're now collaborating
with with a really greatpartner, where we are building
(24:32):
an outdoor dining structure,designing an outdoor dining
structure that will be shared,you know, between a wine bar
next door in a coffee shop, youknow, and they're thinking about
incorporating things like bike,bike racks, or bike parking, and
also, you know, like trashreceptacles, like something like
your trash corral, right. And sothe idea of adding more features
(24:54):
to it, and also sharing it withother users or other activities
or you uses is very exciting tome, as far as how I see the the
evolution of what may come next.
Stephanie Eche (25:08):
Yeah, going from that temporary to semi permanent
and then having more sharedinfrastructure. I'm, I'm excited
to hopefully see more outdoorworking opportunities. I think
that's something that has alwaysbeen, I don't know just kind of
ignored, like, no electricity,no internet in the outdoor area.
(25:30):
And so it's hard to spend moretime there. But now that we can
kind of spend more time in aspace creating more like
weatherproof areas where youhave like an indoor outdoor
experience, which you know, inother places is very normal, but
in New York City is not becauseof our weather, but I was just
in Mexico City and it's like,literally everywhere you can be
(25:50):
inside, outside, semi-insidesemi-outside, and it's it's just
their climate is more conduciveto, to that kind of design where
you can actually invest in thatkind of space, because it's,
you're not going to get snowedon every year. But at the same
time, they still deal with a lotof rain. But it also doesn't get
(26:11):
very cold ever. So I think insome ways, New York City has
more we just have moreparameters to deal with and how
we create spaces that areoutdoors or semi outdoor spaces.
Manuel Mansylla (26:24):
Yeah. And my other partner Viviane Liao
always says there's no suchthing as bad weather. There's
just that clothing. But yes, toyour point, I think the idea of
bringing power to some of theseoutdoor installations or
modules, and, and you know, thatleads to some other really
(26:44):
exciting opportunities, right,because I think that the
connection with other activitiessuch as outdoor, you know, work
and or outdoor exercising,right, and it's exciting, but I
think it's there's another,another opportunity with how
these things tie into micromobility, that I think it's
really, really exciting. And sosome of the work that we're
(27:07):
doing with our sister companyOonee is also super exciting,
right? And we'll see some veryexciting updates coming in the
in the near future with thatone, as well.
Stephanie Eche (27:19):
Do you want to talk about fast casual?
Manuel Mansylla (27:21):
Yeah, in line with these modular outdoor
activity toolkits, we've createdone that is specifically geared
towards the restaurant industry.
But also, you know, there'spossibility of doing outdoor
work, you know, like an outdooroffice, as well, you know, which
I think has a lot of potential,like, you were saying, you know,
(27:44):
why couldn't there be thesetypes of modules where you can,
you know, sit down, do some workyou, you have, you know, a
charger for your computer oryour phone, right, and you have,
you know, a nice, comfortabledesk to sit on, and some shape
right, during the warmer months.
So we designed this flexibleactivity module coasts called
(28:05):
PASS schedule. And, you know,the idea there is, how can you
create such an amenity that, youknow, people would want to hold
on to, as opposed to, you know,the disposable version of it,
and have it redeployed, youknow, every season pretty much
like how you do it with streetseats or a parklet. And so
(28:25):
instead of thinking, what can Ido as fast and when with as
little money as possible, andthen I'm either going to have to
keep retrofitting it or addingto it or taking from it because,
you know, it's funny how inlooking how the evolution of by
woodshed, right is it went from,you know, like a plywood parklet
to a plywood shed to a winterlog cabin. And every time they
(28:51):
would, you will see the samecouple of guys coming with more
and more plywood, adding ortaking from it because then you
know, once the the year camearound, you know, it's like, now
they're taking off layers. Sothey're either taking panels off
or they're taking the roof offor so it's funny how that
evolution so instead of seeingthat, where you have these sort
of like Frankensteins, it's allover the place is like one
(29:14):
system that is that is additivethat is designed to change with
the season or change with auser. And, you know, to be
adaptable. To give you oneexample, we've had this one
instance with with one of ourlocations where the DOT had to
have to repave Broadway, soeverybody on Broadway and that
(29:34):
stretch of Broadway had to moveliterally move their outdoor
dining structures in like, youknow, a couple of days right
hours to five hours to move itand we actually moved it to the
side side street and it wasfine. It was is designed for
that but a lot of the outdoordining structures you know, were
were either you know, damaged orcompletely destroyed because
(29:58):
they're not designed to be movedlike that.
Stephanie Eche (30:00):
Do you have any deployed right now?
Manuel Mansylla (30:01):
Yes, we have a coffee shop called, Foreigner,
in our own district. We have onein Krispy Kreme in Thai Square
with the 48th Street location.
And we have another one at theDaily Provisions in the Upper
West Side on 78th and Amsterdam,and we have a couple more
coming, that will be announcedin the next couple of weeks
later in the fall.
Stephanie Eche (30:22):
Awesome. Well, I'll definitely put links to
those addresses and to FastCasual in the show notes so
people can check it out. Givenyour your work in public space,
how would you define a reallygood public space? Or what
should every public space have?
Manuel Mansylla (30:35):
That's a really good question. I mean, let me
put it this way, the spaces thatI like to hang out in will be
very diverse in nature, likewhen you see a combination of
all kinds of folks like doingall kinds of activities, and
people really making their ownlittle version of a public
space, right. And what thatmeans is using it in their own
(30:58):
personal, intimate way, is whatI think counts for a good public
space. Right. But there's alsosomething to be said about the
design. And you mentionedsomething about design that is
good is just sort of likebecomes invisible. But there's,
there's a lot to be said aboutprogramming. And we touched on
(31:19):
it a little bit before when youwere saying, oh, you know, what
is it about guerrilla that thatyou don't like, right? And and I
think programming is somethingthat is sometimes overlooked
when it comes to placement,because as designers, and I'm
sure you know this we take a lotof heat sometimes when when
people say, oh, you know, butyou were involved in the design
(31:39):
of this public space and nowit's, it's led to all of these,
like negative uses and negativeaspects in our neighborhood.
It's like, yeah, but that hasabsolutely nothing to do with my
design, it has to do with theprogramming of the space, you
guys forgot about it. Nobody,you know, nobody ever went back
and attained it or made sure toactivate it in a positive way.
(32:00):
And so it's taken over bynegative, you know, activities
and negative uses. Right. Andso, I think that back to, you
know, what, what becomes asuccessful or positive public
space is something that, youknow, is constantly activated
with good uses and goodprogramming, basically.
Stephanie Eche (32:18):
Right. Yeah. And that takes money, which I think
is something that is sometimesmaybe not forgotten, but pushed
till the end of the budget,right. Like there's, there's
this budget upfront for thedesign, and implementation, but
then it's not thought about,like what happens in one year,
two years, three years, fiveyears, and both from a
maintenance perspective for anyany kind of structure or public
(32:41):
art or anything, but then,especially programming, I mean,
ideally, you would have thisthriving space, that kind of
programs on its own, but even aplace like Washington Square
Park has, like 2030 littlegroups that do their own
programming. And that's why it'sso activated. It's not, it may
not be like a city run thingnecessarily, or one bid running
(33:04):
the whole thing. But it's theselittle pockets of groups
creating their own littlecommunities that make it so
vibrant. And I think it takesstirring the pot to actually get
that going. And usually thatthat takes money to actually
start not that you need a lot ofmoney to do programming, but you
need, you need at least a personwho was going to want to create
(33:25):
activities in the space. Andsomething that I've seen a lot
of space in that I've donemyself in spaces is just
utilizing the existingcommunities because there's
always a community in any place,and usually many different
communities doing things likethe soccer club is there, like
kids need a place to playsoccer, or there's a group of
(33:47):
moms that want to have like,baby play time, or just there's
a yoga studio down the street.
And all of these people usuallywould love the opportunity to
use a public space. It's just,it's one of those like, why not
things where you don't reallythink about it. And then once
you see someone doing yoga in te park, you're like, oh, yeah
we should, we should also do yga in the park. But then some
people might think like, welldo I need a permit? Or like
(34:08):
am I allowed to do that. Andn every place, it's diff
rent, but just having that persn who actually does the thin
, I think can really help othepeople start doing things, whic
is one way to get around notaving a large budget of prog
amming, just utilizing what exiss in the area. Yeah. What are
ome resources that have helpd you along the way in doin
what you do?
Manuel Mansylla (34:31):
You know, just an insatiable curiosity, to hear
other people's thoughts onsomething, you know, because I
think that to your previousquestion, right, or to your
previous point aboutprogramming, right, I think
that, you know, what I've alwaysenjoy about placemaking or my
(34:52):
own placemaking projects is, isthis sort of like booby trap
quality to them, right? It'slike, prompting what that means
is like the act of likeprompting people with an
opportunity to get involved inthe creation of a space or a
thing, right. And so what thathappens is, you know, you
(35:12):
oftentimes you get surprisedwith, with folks who maybe
you've never been asked andsuddenly come up with, like,
brilliant ideas, right? But whenthose ideas are enacted, then
you have a collabortor, you have, you know, yo
have a steward for life forthat space, right. And I think
hat that, you know, goes a lng way, right, because as a des
(35:34):
gner, I'm going to, I'm going toleave, I'm going to move on
o my next project. But if a grop of people, these local ch
mpions, you know, that you werementioning, take ownershi
of the space, they'll make surto not only demonstr
te the positive uses, but to b, you know, very opiniona
ed, about, you know, not usinit in a in a negative way. And
(35:56):
I think that that's, that's,hat's really important. So this
dea of, of using placemakng, as an excuse to bring pe
ple together so that they canshare their ideas, and then tho
e ideas, you know, will sort ofike plant the seeds to whatever
what will happen in that spae is, is what I would call, yo
know, an important resourceright? So, use people as resou
(36:20):
ces.
Stephanie Eche (36:21):
Definitely. Is there anything that you've read
or listened to, or watched tht's inspired you recen
Manuel Mansylla (36:27):
Yeah, I do quite a fair bit amount of
people watching and you know,what I walk the streets and look
Well, thank you so much forchatting with us, chatting with
at, you know, how how folks aregoing about their day, and the
sort of like ideas andcreativity that are seen in the
reason, months is reallyinspirational to me, you know,
in terms of how much people haveadapted, and have had changed
(36:50):
their lifestyles and their waysof commuting and being outside
and being with their familiesand sort of like, absorbing,
me today. I'm excited foreveryone to hear this interview.
experiencing and using theirneighborhoods is very inspiring
to me. And I think that thatwill, that will lead to, but
it's already leading to a sortof Renaissance when it comes to
how cities are going to shapethemselves in the not so distan
(37:14):
future. And I think, you know,here's some really big change
And where can our listeners findyou online?
coming, when it comes to microobility and how people are mo
ing in cities, that is goingo be really, really exciti g.
(37:35):
You guys can go to any of theFantastica, like Fantastica
Brooklyn, on Instagram, there'sa lot more coming with Oonee on
od pot. And I think that's alsoa good place to follow, you
know, the work and projects. Butyou know, an email saying hello,
also works.
Stephanie Eche (37:55):
Awesome. Well, I'll put those links in the show
notes. Thank you again. It'sbeen great to chat.
Manuel Mansylla (38:01):
It was super cool to talk to you, Stephanie.
Keep up the good work, okay?
Stephanie Eche (38:05):
Thanks for listening to this episode of
First Coat. If you like thispodcast, please leave a review.
Make sure to subscribe to theFirst Coat podcast wherever you
listen to podcasts and follow uson Instagram @firstcoatpodcast
or @distillcreative. First Coatis a production of my company
Distill Creative. Check us outat distillcreative.com
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