Sister Act

We all have blind spots about ourselves. Today's story is about a group of siblings who shared a similar blind spot: their anonymous sperm donor. The ten of them grew up with questions that were hard to answer:
 
What’s your dad like?
Do you look more like your mom or your dad?
Do you have siblings?
Are you going to be gay because your parents are?

After half-a-lifetime exploring, creating, falling down and getting up, they discovered each other through DNA registries. They were surprised by what they learned and how it made them feel.

Daniel Goleman talks about his Emotional Intelligence Courses, available at danielgolemanemotionalintelligence.com

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Episode Transcript

Elizabeth Solomon (00:00):
Hi my name is Elizabeth Solomon and you are

(00:11):
listening to first person pluralemotional intelligence and
beyond. Today we will be talkingabout the very foundation of
emotional intelligence, selfawareness.

(00:32):
There are many ways throughoutour lifetime that we cultivate
self awareness. And the truthis, we all have blind spots.
Today's story is about a groupof siblings who share a similar
blind spot, and that is theirsperm donor.

(00:58):
This is the story of a group ofbiological siblings who found
each other in adulthood, longafter their identities and sense
of self had already becomeestablished. It's a story about
how their self awarenessexpanded, being in one another's
presence, what they came tounderstand about themselves,

(01:21):
that they could only understandin the context of knowing one
another, and the donor that theycame from. Katie Silva was born
to a lesbian couple in the 80s.
This is a time when it wasreally hard for same sex couples
to find a sperm donor. In fact,homosexuality had only recently
come out of the DSM as apsychological disorder. Katie's

(01:45):
mother's found a doctor willingto inseminate them. But Katie
grew up knowing nothing abouther donor, until she was
contacted through 23andme. ByWell, her biological sister,

Katie Silver (02:05):
my understanding was that it was a sperm donor,
and they knew that they weredonating to a lesbian couple.
And that's, he didn't want to beinvolved in our lives, and they
didn't know his identity. So Ijust had always thought I would
never find out who he was. Andthen when Laura contacted me via
23, and me saying we share asurprising amount of DNA. So,

(02:31):
you know, when she presentedHey, are you interested in
meeting someone or talking tosomeone you may be related to? I
was like, Yeah, I didn't reallyexpect to get anything out of
it, or feel any more complete.
But I really wanted to know moreabout the people I'm related to
by DNA, and then finding thatthis whole group of us,

(02:52):
surprisingly, did make me feellike a part of something. And I
have like a sense of pride. It'sinteresting. And some of the, in
the people that I'm related to,it's fun to know what they're
doing and have such a sense offondness. Even though some of
them I really don't even knowvery well.

Elizabeth Solomon (03:11):
I met these siblings through my partner,
Glenn bass. GWEN And I have beentogether for six years. And it
was about two years into ourrelationship, that she found
this large collection ofbiological siblings. As someone
who's an only child, it wasreally poignant. To watch Gwen
come to know, her biologicalsisters and one brother. Things

(03:37):
that she thought that sheunderstood about herself or knew
about herself, started to shiftand change. Questions that she
had grown up with? Who are yourparents? Where do you come from?
What's your medical history?
They started to be answered. Andfor me, it was an interesting

(03:59):
look at what's nature. Andwhat's nurture.

Unknown (04:08):
Hi, everyone.
Good morning. Good morning. Thisis

Elizabeth Solomon (04:15):
my first time facilitating a podcast interview
with this many people. So I'mjust going to put that on the
table because it's gonna beinteresting to see how it goes.
We're going to do our best here.
I'm going to ask some reallysimple questions. So I'm just
going to do this popcorn style.
So just forgotten your name,

Unknown (04:31):
how old you are, where you reside currently,

Elizabeth Solomon (04:35):
and where you grew up, Gwen, why don't you
kick us off?

Unknown (04:37):
My name is Gwen. I am 40 years old. I was born in
Arbor, Michigan, and I live inMassachusetts. My like passing
it to some before. Okay, Liz,Kate, you're next on my list.
I had to think a minute about myage. I think I'm 37. So Liz case
let's I was 37. I currently livein Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and

(04:58):
I grew up in Michigan.
I'll go because I'm also 37. I'mLiz mess for 37. I was born in
Ann Arbor, but I grew up in thebay area and I'm currently in
Portland, Oregon.
Okay, I'll go Hi, everyone. Myname is Laura Khalil. I'm 42.
I'm based in Metro Detroit. AndI grew up in Metro Detroit, and

(05:19):
I will pop corn to Sean. I amthe youngest of the group here.
My name is Sean Murray calvess.
I am 36 years old young. And Iwas raised in Novi, Michigan,
and currently reside in North

Elizabeth Solomon (05:37):
Philly. Let's just start by orienting our
listeners. When did you alllearn about each other? And I
know that answer is going to bea little bit different for each
of you. And Glenn, I'm going tokick it to you again, just to

Unknown (05:47):
start us off.
Okay, I think that was like alittle later to the party than
some of you I, my parents hadwere in touch with another one
of our siblings and send me aDNA test that I like failed to
get results from multiple timesI like did multiple rounds of

(06:07):
trying to get through theancestry thing. But in the
process of doing that, I hadheard that there was this group
of people who had all beeninseminated a doctor Cantor's
office and did some Facebookstalking of all of you and was
like just kind of a resemblance.
And so once I got my results, itwas clear that like, I was also
a member of the group. Andactually remember, I was in an

(06:27):
airport in Baltimore. And I wasjust coming back from a
conference and and Lynette and Ihad just connected on, I don't
know, its history. And Iremember her being like, Hey, do
you want to have contact withthese people and just like
feeling that conflict of like,I've already figured out who I
am as like what my life isabout. And maybe like, they all
look really cool andinteresting, but like, maybe

(06:50):
just seeing their pictures isenough, like maybe I don't
actually need to, like get intouch. So I think that, for me
was like, kind of aninteresting, pivotal point, and
ultimately, obviously decided todo and you all were gracious
enough to communicate onWhatsApp, because I was like the
Android user, in the group. Sothank you for that. Anyway. So
that's my memory of it. Liz,

Elizabeth Solomon (07:11):
how about you? When did you find out about
all of these siblings that youhad and where were you? And what
were some of the first thoughtsthat went through your

Unknown (07:18):
head? So I had been told my whole life that there
was likely some siblings outthere something that Dr. Taylor
had said to my mom, along thelines of all of the donors that
he used, were chosen becausethey had already had healthy
babies. So I knew that there wasa really good chance that at

(07:41):
some point, if I had taken23andme, or ancestry that I was
going to find somebody and Ifigured there was a decent
chance it was going to besomebody in the same group of
families, but my mom wasaffiliated with an arbor. So I
finally took 23. And me, I thinkit was 2017 or 2018. And the

(08:03):
first person I matched with withAnlin. And I was like, alright,
well, I recognize that name.
That's not a surprise. And thenI saw Laura's name. And I
thought, I don't know Laura.
Kay. So that's somebody new andI just process that moment for a
little bit. I guess I wasinitially shocked that and Lynn
and I were related, because Ifeel like we looked so different

(08:27):
that I was just like, wow,that's really wild. And genetics
are interesting. You know, Ifeel like there are all kinds of
archetypes within our siblings,like when and Katie McKee look
like twin sweet was Kay and Ilook really similar. Laura looks
like kind of both archetypes.
Sean is probably lives Klizards. We all have these

(08:48):
similarities. So once I sawLaura's name and a process, I
think I reached out to her and Iwas like, hey, it looks like
we're related Alexa, corsets.
And I think that was news toher. She had already connected
with Anlin. And I think that wasthe first explosion. And then I

(09:09):
came in and knocked down somemore walls. And as she's
processing the fact that she hastwo half sisters, I said, Hey,
there's probably going to be abunch more of us just reading
how this is going. You shouldknow that. There's probably more
of us out there that this isn'tisolated. So I had no idea

(09:31):
exactly how many of us there wasgoing to end up being but that
was a process and then I thinkfor a while people were
trickling in it was like once amonth a new sibling would pop
up. And it can't remember whowas after Laura for me if that
was when or Liz or Shawn but assoon as I saw one's name it

(09:52):
piqued trumping so I think whenwas the baby that my mom had met
in Ann Arbor that connected herto it Dr. Taylor. So if my mom
hadn't met baby Gwen, she wouldnever have known that was an
option for her. I knew there waslike a Glenn out there. So I
hadn't known when that as partof that group, but she had moved

(10:13):
to Massachusetts, but that sortof vibed with my experience,
so that's amazing. When was likethe baby,
when was this an initiating. Somy mom said, she was perfect.
She was like, I wanted to meetthis baby, because I knew she
was a donor baby. And she cameout of a lesbian. And she was

(10:35):
like, I had to put eyeballs onher, make sure she had 10
fingers 10 toes, and she's babyGlen was the most beautiful baby
I've ever seen. And Matt sealedthe deal. Thanks, glad to have
you my life. Liz Kay, I'm

Elizabeth Solomon (10:52):
gonna pass it over to you just tell us a
little bit about when you foundout you had so many siblings
where you were what that firstpoint of contact was like, I
might

Unknown (11:00):
start a little bit earlier, because I feel like my
story is slightly different froma lot of you, and that my mom
actually passed away when I wasone. So I was raised by my aunt
and uncle who became my parents.
But I was raised outside of AnnArbor, and then very quickly
disconnected from the initialgroup. So I did not give a lot
of thought to this side of mylife at all, I grew up with a

(11:23):
mom and a dad adopted. And Idon't know, I just really didn't
spend a lot of time thinkingabout my donor and my origins.
So I initially did 23andme,because I have dark hair and
olive skin. And my mom's side isScandinavian. So everybody has
very white skin, and very lighthair. And I just wanted to know

(11:44):
what those origins were for me.
And I thought in the back of myhead, okay, wonder if maybe
there might be a sibling outthere or something, but I didn't
really think much about it. Sothen, when I did 23andme, and
the first connection that poppedup was someone also named was
born the same year as me fromthe same town as me with a very

(12:08):
similar story. To me, that was areal holy shit moment of my
life, maybe the biggest holyshit moment. And at first I was
Oh, my God, like, what am Igoing to do with this? I just
need a minute. And then I waslike, I don't need a minute. I
need to know everything. Likeright now. So I dove in pretty
quickly. I think for me, nothaving any first degree

(12:31):
relatives growing up. I've neverhad anybody that looks like me,
like growing up with my cousinsand my aunts, uncles, I, nobody
looks like me. So that was areal shock, the physical
similarities. And then otherpersonality similarities to
follow. Were also reallyinteresting. What was that

(12:52):
thought

Elizabeth Solomon (12:52):
that was going through your head when you
said, I need a minute? And thenyou said, Actually, I

Unknown (12:55):
need to dive right in.
It's a real disruption to, towhat you know, and what your
life has always been to think,wow, there's this whole other
thing that I had not reallyspent much time thinking about.
So that for me, it was just aneed to take a step back, think
about my life and what it wasand think about if I had the
space and bandwidth to dive intothis whole other aspect. But I

(13:18):
had to I just realized I reallywanted to know who these people
are. And my curiosity was muchstronger than my kind of
apprehension. Thank you.
Shawn. Please share with us yourdiscovery through your siblings.

(13:41):
Yeah,I'd say I think it goes back to
2016. I had taken a DNA test. Mymom's sister is an ancestry. A
Holic I guess she is obsessedwith building our family tree,
even if we're not really relatedto some people. So like, she's

(14:02):
always on ancestry.com, likealways pulling stuff together.
And my mom is the accountholder. And so I think back in
like 2014, my mom bought mywhole family, the DNA test kits,
and I took it back in 2014, andthen didn't have a direct match
with Dana Lieberman until 2016.

(14:24):
And it was right around likeFourth of July, my aunt said to
me, Hey, somebody messaged youon Ancestry and there's a
picture of her and she looksjust like you. And it's it
didn't say sibling, but it sayslike close relative. So I
responded back to Dana and hermessage and told her my story
about how I knew I wasartificially inseminated. I grew

(14:45):
up in metro Detroit area, and itlooks like her really close
siblings. She was only a monthyounger than me. And so it was
very clear like when you diginto the DNA results and
everything like that, that wewere done. Definitely, siblings,
I had shared more DNA with herthan I did my aunt on my mom's
side. And I met her. In 2018. Ibelieve I flew out to LA and met

(15:14):
her. And it was somewhatsurreal. I knew my whole life
that I was artificiallyinseminated. So it wasn't a
shock to me that there wereother siblings out there. But
just the closer son age, growingup, close in proximity, she went
to Michigan State, and we hadone mutual friend. That was very

(15:37):
bizarre feeling. And then I wantto say it was a couple of years
later, my sister, Dina metric,Laura, and 23, and me. And then
I took the test for 23andme. Andthen Laura was the connecting
piece to all of the other girls.
The whole thing is veryfascinating. I was raised as an
only child and just didn'treally have expectations about
having half siblings, by it hasbeen a very fun, interesting and

(16:02):
like, you learn more aboutyourself through these other
siblings that like our love ofCracklin, oat bran and like
weird stuff, and like, the waythat I talk I've heard is
similar to when Liz Mezrichtalks. And it's like we weren't

(16:22):
raised around each other. But wehave the same inflection in our
voice. And so that and alsohaving just like a group that
you can confide in, and theywent through, maybe not a
similar experience, or have thatsame dialogue that you can
converse with them. That issomething that was truly special
for me, because I went my wholelife not being honest about who

(16:44):
I was to people outside of myhousehold. And it took me a long
time to really accept who I was.
And then once I did that, andthen found all of the siblings,
it was like more reassurancethat like, this is the way God
has meant for my life to be. Andit all made sense at that point.

(17:08):
So it's been great. Thank you,Laura, you,

Elizabeth Solomon (17:16):
I keep seeing you as the hub based on what
everyone else has shared a majorconnection point for all the
siblings, and I just love tohear your story

Unknown (17:24):
while you found out. I am the Big Sister, I take my
role very seriously. It's, um,so I am the only sibling that to
date. There could be others thatappear. But to date, I'm only
one who didn't know that theirparents had used a sperm donor
and I'm, I grew up with a dad,who I thought was my dad. He is

(17:47):
my dad, but not my biologicalfather. So I did 23andme
actually in 2013. Because I'dalways been very curious about
my ancestry not actuallyrelatives, but more my heritage
because I grew up in a MiddleEastern community. And for those
who are looking at a photo ofme, I am extremely white orders

(18:12):
of magnitude paler than both ofmy parents. And so I always
found that really strange that Inever looked like anyone on my
dad's side. And people wouldalways say, Oh, you look like
your mom. So anyway, I did23andme in 2013. And the results
at that point, were still prettyinaccurate, like in terms of

(18:33):
ethnicity. So they had actuallyclassified me as Italian. And
they didn't even pick up any ofmy middle eastern heritage from
my mom's side. So I was like,Oh, this thing's bullshit. They
don't even understand. Like,they didn't, they missed that
entirely. So I just dismissedit. But I would get these
emails. And they would be like,Oh, you have more relatives. And

(18:58):
I would go and look at therelative finder. And I would see
some Middle Eastern last names.
And then I would see like allthese like American or Western
last names that really, I waslike, Who are these people? What
if this is totally off? And thenin 2018, it was in the spring of
2018. I received a message fromsomeone on 23andme And it just

(19:22):
said, Hey, Laura, we share a lotof DNA. Do you want to talk and
that was a message from Amronwho was the first half sister
that I discovered and it waslike really upsetting. I mean,
you know to it's like we're evenreally hard reliving? That shock
shocker. Yes, it was reallytough to think your family is

(19:52):
your think you know where you'refrom. You think you'd know who
If your parents aren't, and it'slike, the bot just falls under
the floor. And listening toeveryone talk right now has
actually been like bringing meback to that time. And remember
it How upsetting it was, Ididn't understand how am I gonna

(20:16):
play for thick relief. And solike I was really confused. And
I kept thinking, oh my god, big10 was to head on to hair, which
is like, really upsetting toeven consider. And then she said
they used a sperm donor. And itwas like, my dad was a sperm
donor, and really trying tofigure out like, how my dad had

(20:37):
this kid, and then eventuallyrealize, oh, that's why it'll
look like my dad, it took me aminute to get to that point. And
when I met, or when I learnedAmblin, I was kinda like,
obviously, my parents didn'twant me to know. And so I didn't
want to talk about it with them.

(21:00):
And in fact, I had a really hardtime talking about it with
anyone. And I remember I justthought, Okay, we're just, like,
just, we're not going to addressthis, we're not going to deal
with this. And then it was a daybefore my birthday, I think, or
one or two days before mybirthday, my 38th birthday. When
Liz popped up. And I remember soclearly, I was in like a Meijer,

(21:24):
which is one of our big grocerystores here. And I have this
message and I was, oh, my,there's another wallet. And I
was like I just had pleatbreakdown in the store, I just,
I thought something that maybewas like a fluke, now had like a
pattern. When it was reallywithin the course of that year

(21:47):
of 2018, I think, where we allfound one another. But it was
very, as you can probably hearuntil it was very hard for me it
was almost like an existentialidentity crisis. But it's also
been a great gift to meet theseamazing women and man, we do
have a brother, we can't forgetabout him, but to meet them, and
to really feel honestly blessedwith having a new family growing

(22:12):
up as an only child. But itdidn't come easily. I was very I
will say with Amarin. When Idiscovered her, I was very
suspicious. I wondered what shewanted from me, I remember that
feeling very clearly thinking,what does this woman want from
me? Does she want money? Doesshe like, what does she want?
And yeah, it took a minute, ittook a minute, but ultimately,

(22:35):
it's been pretty cool.
Thank you so much.

Elizabeth Solomon (22:39):
And it brings up such a critical piece, which
is the stories that we're toldabout ourselves, either by our
families of origin or by theworld at large and the systems
we live in how deeply they shapeour identity. And that in any
way that we discover thosestories are untrue, how rattling
and shaking that can be in it.
Some of you have touched onthis. But I want to ask the
question, again of what was thestory that you were told growing
up about where you came from?

(23:04):
And I'll just invite anyone tochime in.

Unknown (23:07):
I can I just I don't, I don't need to be the person who
always goes first reading, but Ijust as the thing as you were
talking, Laura, and as you weretalking to Liz, okay. Like I'd
actually as you were talkingShawn, and as you were typing
away that like there is thisreally, really weird thing when
you've organized every fiber ofyour identity into like this,

(23:28):
like neat stack. And we were allolder when we found each other.
So it's not like we were likeadolescents and we didn't know
we were we like many of us havefamilies had significant
relationships, or were in them.
Were like establishedprofessionals. And to go from
being like, Oh, this is who Iam. This is the story. I'm going
to tell the world about who Iam. These are all the places
where I've maybe had to hideaspects of my identity because

(23:49):
of the way that I was raised.
And like the people I was raisedby and what I did or didn't know
about my donor, like I've saidit all into a box like I'm
standing on it. I know how thisworks. I know who I am. And that
had that moment, Liz Kay, likeyou were saying, Oh, wait, okay,
like we're pulling out a Jengapiece. And I'm not really sure
what's going to happen and like,How was everything going to be
reorganized? And I think theprocess that you're

(24:11):
articulating, were like, whilemy experience was different, I
can really relate to thatfeeling of like, oh, every you
know, I didn't even considerthat there would be siblings,
that wasn't a thing. In my mind.
There was like this into like,answer your question. There was
this donor that like my parentsand had told me had been like
curated to be this like athleticJewish doctor that that's what

(24:32):
they ordered. That's what theythought they got. And I just was
like an athlete. My mom wasn't Iwas like, darker skinned than
she was. I like there were allthese things about me that was
like, okay, yeah, that lines up.
Okay, totally up Jewish doctor.
Great, okay. And I'll justfigure out how to use that story
at different times of my lifewhen I need to hide the fact
that my parents are gay. Like,I'll be like, I'm gonna my
Jewish doctor died. Yeah, likehe exists. Somewhere out there.

(24:54):
Like I will just rely on thatstory. And at other times, like
you're like, I don't know.
There's like a piece I thinkabout you lose cat, like, the
amount of unknown that you livedwith anyway, by being raised by
your non biological parents, andthere is a level of like not
knowing that even when you don'tknow, they're just not having
the donor, I felt like, okay,like, you have to be okay with

(25:14):
an unknown. And so like, I wasworking with what I had, it made
sense of what I didn't know. AndI was like, This is how it's
gonna go. And so I just feellike, while we all experienced
that in different ways, like somuch of what you've said, each
of you, like, really resonatesin terms of like, my own
experience of all of it.
Yeah, cuz as I had said, like,my, when I was very little, you
know, going into kindergarten,and it's Father's Day, oh, we're

(25:39):
gonna all make a card, or we'regoing to do this craft for dads
and I would be going by don'thave a dad. And so then my mom
explained to me, at a very youngage, you do have a dad, it's
impossible for you to not have adad, but he's just not in your
life, the way that other dadsare in other kids lives. And

(26:02):
that's okay. But we want to becautious about who we tell,
because of the current climate,you know, with people being
cruel, and there still are coolpeople out there. And my mom was
a single mom. And so she had togo to work every day. And she,
she couldn't lose her job. Andshe had to take care of me. And
so that was her way ofprotecting me. And having that

(26:25):
weight on your shoulders for solong. really affected who I
appreciated myself to be andaffected my relationship with my
mom until I got to the otherside of it and realize she was
doing this to protect herself toprotect me to keep me safe. And

(26:46):
it's okay. She was dreaming thatshe cried. But I did have a ton
of emotional baggage with it,where I couldn't even tell
people I was dating about who Iwas. And it, it took a very long
time to get to the point whereI'm like, This is who I am, and

(27:08):
I am accepting it. And if youdon't accept who I am, and who
what the decisions that my mommade for her, and for me,
because she wanted to have afamily, then you don't deserve
to be in my life. And I think ittakes a certain level of
emotional intelligence andmaturity and strength to get
there. But I knew my whole lifethat I couldn't, that I was

(27:31):
artificially inseminated andcouldn't tell people, because it
may or may not hurt our family.
Also, can we just say that, backin the era, when all of these
children were conceived, it wasactually very dangerous. For a
single woman to go through thisprocedure, most doctors would
not allow for it to happen, theywould outright reject you. And

(27:54):
so like, their moms were reallyrevolutionary for what they did,
and the risks that all of themtook to have kids. I mean, I
know it's so normal today. But3540 years ago, this was not
normal. And this was the testingback then either. AIDS testing

(28:15):
was not a thing. And then my momsaid she felt so humiliated
having to go to the healthclinic to get tested, because
this was part of the pandemic ofAIDS was starting her epidemic,
whatever. And so she was like Iwas pregnant. I was single I was
in this doctor's office, they'retesting me for AIDS. Just it was
scary. I don't know if this istrue, because my mom

(28:38):
exaggerates, but it was illegalin Michigan, or doctors to
inseminate single women becausethe concept of a woman having a
child without married partner,or a man in the picture was
like, oh, yeah, we can't havethat happening. So what Dr.
Taylor was doing was hesupposedly was like, oh, no,

(29:04):
this is like a research or apilot program, or he had some
way where he went through theuniversity that was attached to
his clinic, and got around thislaw or guideline, whatever it
was, it said women single womencan't be inseminated to do this,
which is why it was kind of hardwhen my mom heard about when she

(29:25):
was like, What do you mean thatthis lesbian had a baby? That's
not possible? And I was like,No, but you have to go to this
die was like an undergroundinsemination tax for these women
in Ann Arbor in other places,but single women. Yeah, I think
it's really powerful hearingeverybody's response to this.

(29:47):
Because I think that I reallyjust compartmentalize the
change. And I didn't evenrealize how profound it was.
Until like, two years. later, Iwas like, oh, yeah, you know, I
knew that there was a chance Ihad siblings. And then later on,
people would say, Oh, I thinkI'm gonna get 23andme for
Christmas. And I'd be like,Wait, are you emotionally for

(30:09):
what you might find? They werelike, oh, yeah, I just want to
find out your fun German. AndI'd be like, but you might not
find that. And I feel like whenwas saying, I knew who I was, I
was an adult, I didn't needanything from anybody. But and
if I had found out if I hadfound my siblings, if I had

(30:29):
looked on an everybody was injail, I would have felt
differently, it would have saidsomething about my genetics that
maybe I would have been reallyupset by, you know, if somebody
comes knocking on your door, andthey're like, Hey, we have a
cold case. And it turns out,you're related to the murderer,
I would have been rocked in adifferent way. And the fact that

(30:49):
I got to connect with this groupof people that are universally
awesome, and that we share thesetraits that are that is not
murder, is really cool. But itdoes. Just, it's like an
earthquake that hits your life,your personality, even the

(31:11):
people that are close to you inyour life, like my husband was
like, Oh, my looking at mysiblings. He's like, there's
more of you. And thinking aboutthis just larger network of
people that I'm now connected toit. I don't think that anybody
who says they went through that,and they were not profoundly
affected whether or not it was asurprise or not, it's I just

(31:33):
don't believe that's possible.
It's too much.
I have to agree that I am sothankful that I found you guys
at this age are few yearsyounger, because yeah, you're
already way more established. IfI was, in my 20s, I don't know
how this would have affected meor earlier, I can't even

(31:53):
imagine. But this you brought upand I forgot about that feeling
of being afraid. I'd be relatedto murders. I remember very
early on, Laura sent me amessage, I think in 23, and me,
that said something in a reallypolitically correct way that was
like, everybody is successful intheir own right. And I was like,

(32:14):
Oh, we know there's nopedophile, so that's great,
it's gonna be fine. Yeah, it'sjust like, their successes don't
necessarily reflect on you.
Their failures wouldn't either.
But you can, especially growingup as an only child, if I had
found out my blood siblings wereall like drug addicts who

(32:37):
struggled immensely, it wouldmake me look at definitely my
children and say, like, Hey, wegot to, you know, we have to
make sure that we're protectingyou from something within our
genetics that maybe I wasn'tsusceptible to, but you may be,
and instead, I'm like, I canjust sit back and relax. Because
these genes, they don't quit,you're

Elizabeth Solomon (32:58):
all bringing up two really important things.
One is the how we develop selfawareness and relationship to
those around us, or how weunderstand ourselves is rooted
within a certain community or acertain family or a certain
demographic, whatever that be.
And then also, what it is to notknow aspects of your genetic
history, like yoursusceptibility to disease, etc,

(33:18):
and to become aware of that. AndI would love to just hear from
you as you think about the waythat this experience has shaped
understandings of yourselfeverything from Oh, the way I
laugh is the way someone elselaughs to Oh, actually, like I
do have these geneticdispositions or, Oh, things you
thought, might have beennurture, but are actually nature

(33:41):
that were incredibly surprisingto you just curious to hear what
comes up.

Unknown (33:47):
I'll say something about that. So when we finally
discovered who the sperm donorwhy it was interesting to learn
about him, um, he's deceased,but I was able to speak with one
of his relatives who told me alittle bit about him, and it's
sort of filled in some areas, atleast for me, where maybe there

(34:09):
was like a missing puzzle piece.
So I come from a verytraditional Middle Eastern
household. And I think as allthe siblings can tell you, I can
be a little eccentric, Idefinitely do not share that
with either of my parents. Andlearning about him and learning,
right. I was told the story ofhim like where he had a

(34:30):
motorcycle, and he would driveit down the street, standing on
the seat like a madman. And Iwas like, Oh, that totally makes
sense. That's my sperm donordaddy. Okay, I got finally I've
found something that I can latchon to because I would do crazy
shit not I wouldn't do amotorcycle, but I do crazy shit

(34:52):
all the time. I didn't get thatfrom my parents. And so I think
that that sort of added someflavor. But at the same time, we
also learn some of the medicalhistory that I think is really
important for all of thesiblings to have known. And
frankly, it's disturbing that wedidn't know it. Because it could

(35:14):
affect all of us. I'm curiousthinking

Elizabeth Solomon (35:22):
about that. I mean, I certainly know from
knowing Gwen, that she has ahigh tolerance for risk. But I'm
curious to hear from the rest ofyou. Is that something that you
share?

Unknown (35:31):
I don't know that I would say. So I don't want to
jump out of a plane or climb upHalf Dome. But I would frame it
for me more as a sense ofspontaneity and maybe boldness,
or I'm just really not thatafraid of failing, which is
definitely that knee in the assplenty of times, because there

(35:54):
were times I should have beenafraid of failing. So not
necessarily like an adrenalinejunkie, but more Yeah, I can do
that. And I think to a certainextent, we do share that just
this not overconfidence, but Ifeel like security in our own
abilities, maybe or just this.
Yeah, I'm not afraid to trythat. So I don't really know how

(36:15):
you'd categorize that. But Idefinitely don't think that I
saw that in my mom growing up.
And it was interesting whatShawn was saying, and Glenn,
about what the donor was framedas in their families. And I
would ask my mom, like about mydad, and again, in the 80s, it

(36:38):
would throw people off andthey're like, who's your dad?
I'm like, I don't have a dad.
And they're like, that'simpossible. And be like, I don't
know. I don't know who he is,yes, I understand the biology.
But I can't tell you any morethan that. And the way that
people would fill in their ownideas, but what that meant,
though, your mom probably gotpregnant and was embarrassed.
And I was like, that certainlyhappened. But I'd asked my mom,

(36:59):
like, what do you think I getfrom my dad, and she would say,
I don't have big boobs, soprobably that and blonde hair,
and I'd be like, alright, butthat was really the only things
that she would commit to, that Ipossibly could have gotten from
my dad with blonde hair and bigboobs, and I'm shorter than she
is. So it was really, and thatwas it and everything else. Like

(37:20):
all the other traits, I musthave that from her. So I really
had no idea. Other than that,she was convinced he was a
doctor, this incrediblyhandsome, blonde, big boobs
doctor just with the mostintelligence cream of the crop,
because that's what she askedfor. And then finding out from

(37:41):
everybody else, oh, Dana's momwas like, want him to be Jewish.
And Dr. Taylor was like, You gotit bid and other people just
asking for these things. Andthey were like, and of course,
looking back, I'm like, Youguys, this was the 80s, there
was no catalog. It was whoeverwas there. And that's fine. But
let's just be realistic thatthere, the illusion of choice

(38:03):
was just that you were imaginingthese things. And he was telling
you what you wanted to hear.
Because, and frankly, I don'tthink that if he had said,
Listen, I have no idea who thedonors gonna be, you're gonna
ovulate, I'm gonna have you comein and you're gonna get what you
get, they probably would havestill committed to the plan.

(38:24):
Like I don't think it would havechanged anybody's mind. It just
would have made them havedifferent feelings about the
process. So they got to walkaway feeling like they got
everything that they wanted. Andwe got to grow up thinking that
we have these amazing fatherswho were genetic marvels. And
that's that and then finding outit's this guy who stands on a
motorcycle who works in the autoindustry is like, yeah, no,

(38:47):
actually, that makes a lot moresense. Because here I am
thinking I'm not nice mate, notreaching my father's standards
as a doctor. And I'm like, nowthat tracks
that that makes more sense.
As you're talking and I'm likethinking too, about what you
said Sean like this, when he'dlike say to people, like I don't
have it, and they're like,that's not a thing. It was like
sci fi. Like, it wasn't just oh,it was like this new way. Like

(39:09):
it was like a technologicalexperiment. And so I don't even
like let's Kate you saidsomething earlier about being
like, I didn't even think abouthaving a dad like I like it
wasn't it was like not it waslike this part of what had made
our moms able to have babies. Itwasn't like a guy. Yes, he had
these characteristics that wecould like talk about when we
were like my hands do not looklike your hands. But like, it

(39:30):
was sci fi. He was like not ahuman. And so something that I
think a lot about and thinkabout in terms of like common
traits is like our mothers withthese like crazy righteous
people and even whether or notthey were partnered, or and
partnered when they chose tohave us. All of us had really
crazy righteous parents who werewilling to like take a risk and
do something that was liketechnologically ahead of the

(39:52):
times. And so I had always sortof like attributed that like,
hurry cool. Like I'm kind of upfor anything. I can roll with
whatever or to the fact that wasthe lineage I knew about. And so
it has for me, but like reallyinteresting to be like, oh,
there's this whole other side tothings. And like, for me, like,
I found all of you, at the sametime as like, my mom was like

(40:13):
passing. And so there was thisreally interesting, like
awareness of my maternal lineageand like the loss of that and
being like, okay, like, who am Iwithout a mom and then being
like, whoa, like, I also havethis whole dad's side and like,
who am I with that? And like,How can I choose to be myself in
this different way, that's like,also reflected in all of you
like in the streets that clearlycame from

(40:33):
him. To dude had to be reallyfunny, if we're talking about
nature versus nurture, like, hehad to be a really funny guy.
I'm gonna think about this donorwith big boobs walking around
forever. Now, Liz, so thank youfor that. I also wanted to say,
I'm thinking a lot about yourstories, and this idea of

(40:55):
needing to hide that you had adonor when you were younger, or
feeling embarrassed, orwhatever. And I had some of
that, for sure. But I wassafeguarded to a certain degree
by my mom dying, because anyonewho was willing to then say,
well, why are you adopted? Andthen if I were to say, when my

(41:15):
mom died, to ask that otherquestion, like, you had to be
really bold to be like, what apush dad. So I think to a
certain degree like thatsafeguard me a little bit from
having to hide that aspect orfeeling embarrassed about that
aspect. And then I also had anadoptive father. So that was
different for me, I am curious,and

Elizabeth Solomon (41:34):
this has come through a little bit in what
you've all shared. But as youmade this discovery about your
biological father, and about oneanother, how the other
relationships in your life,particularly your familial
relationships, that people whoactually parented you, any
siblings that you may have hadgrowing up, how are they
impacted, or how did thisunderstanding impact the rest of

(41:57):
your family system,

Unknown (41:59):
I interrupted can go on was were I just want to make
sure Sean has the floor if shefrom when I interrupted, I
was just gonna say I am likenothing like my mom, when it
comes to my mom is veryreserved. And so I am completely
the opposite, I would jump outof a plane, I would stand on a
motorcycle, I love adventure, myhusband just had the opportunity
to move Jeremy, I'm like, let'sgo. He's so apprehensive about

(42:22):
it. So that was the only thing Iwas gonna say it was it like, I
definitely get the thrillseeking from my paternal side.
And I don't want to comment onlike a familial relationships,
it was just me and my mom, forthe most part, she would date
here and there. And then she hasone sibling, her sister and my
cousins, which we don't reallytalk about how I was conceived

(42:47):
and brought into this world,they know that my mom has never
been married and somehow gotpregnant, but I don't. And they
probably have found out throughsocial media and things that I
posted and about my siblings. Soyou know, of this story, but we
just don't talk about it. Iwanted to say one more thing,
too about adventure. I feel likeadventure is a theme that we're

(43:08):
all talking about. And I feelthe same way living, maybe not
just adventure, I feel like allof us strive to live a very full
life. And yeah,I think that's my theme
throughout. I don't think I'mrisky, especially as I get
older, real life is scaryenough. But I do think I try
really hard to live a full life.
So I think that my mom once itwas clear who the donor was. And

(43:35):
I think she was very supportiveof finding my siblings, and just
was right there along for theride and just very excited what
was going on. But I think thingsa little bit shifted for her
once the donor was actuallyfound. And she realized it
wasn't a doctor and that she hadbeen kind of I don't know, if I

(43:57):
would say Dr. Taylor lied toher, she would probably say that
I want to put words in hermouth. But she has said she felt
a little bit duped. And again,my pushback to that is would you
have said no. And she's now not.
But I think her grappling withthat own process of oh, this
visual that I had, of who yourparentage was growing up, and

(44:19):
it's not that. But I think she'sbeen able to come to terms with
it. And for the most part,people in my family have been
really excited and reallyaccepting and like I said, my
husband and my kids are theyknow all about it. And I show
them pictures and they're theyjust think it's super cool. And
I think especially for my kidswho are growing up in 2022 and

(44:42):
not the 98 when I say thingslike like my six year old will
be like oh mom was like born ina doctor's office and like well
not quite but like conceived.
You need a man and a woman tohave a baby and he's no you
don't just need a doctor and Sotheir concept of what a family
is and how babies are made andwho is your relation and also

(45:05):
like having people in yourfamily who are adopted siblings
who are not blood related toyou, but that doesn't matter.
They're also your family that'sbeen really interesting to watch
and sort of them asking mequestions about my siblings and
about their children and theirfamilies. I think it's been a
positive from my side, exceptfor the feelings that my mom has

(45:27):
had. But I think she's mostlycome to terms with that. Laura,
how I mean, I would love to hearfrom you how, I mean, I know
that it wasn't the same process,as most of us to hear this news
and go to our parents with it.
And so I just want to give youspace and to share your
perspective. Yeah, thanks. Ittook several months for me to

(45:51):
work up the courage to talk tothem. So I think I learned about
em when Megan March. And then,like, instead, it was like, just
trying to like, not make it athing. And then Liz and popped
up and I was like, Oh, wait,there's more. And then I think
it was in September, when Ifinally did speak with them. And

(46:15):
by that point, we havediscovered four or five of us,
and it just felt like a, likethe snowball effect. You can't
ignore this. And also, I'm astoryteller at heart. So for me,
as this is happening, one of theways that I dealt with it is I'm
like, This is an incrediblestory. I have to tell the story.
How could I not tell people thestory. And so it became like,

(46:38):
they're gonna find out, I mightas well tell them. And so when I
sat down with my mom and dad, Isaid, you know, I just want to
tell you some really surprisingnews. And I said, I have a half
sister, I figured I'd start withone, like, not just like, put
everyone on, I was like, I bet Igotta have sister. And my mom
looked at me, and she said, Oh.

(47:04):
And I just sat through a spermdonor. And it was like, in that
moment, it really felt likewatching a veil drop. Like,
maybe she'd forgotten. orsomething I don't know. And she
just said, oh, you know? And Isaid, yeah, no. And they did not

(47:30):
have much to say about it. Ithink it was extremely
embarrassing for my dad, to notbe able to have kids, especially
within their community, I thinkit was very, he felt a lot of
shame around it. So he didn'thave much to say they even to
this day, they don't really, wenever talk about it there. My

(47:52):
mom is certainly happy to knowthat everyone exists and that I
have siblings, but she's not.
They're not inquisitive. They'renot particularly interested.
Because like, I think from theirperspective, they're like, you
have a family. Cool. Like,you've got this other thing
going on. Great. And we're yourparents, and that's the end of
the story. So I think there isthis like inherent feeling of

(48:17):
like, threat, maybe all of ourparents or people raise this
word. Like we like for me, Iknow, I contended with that
feeling. Like I remember showingmy mom a picture of the arm and
like, see, like, he looks somuch like me. And she was like
that can't be some Jewishdoctor. And I was like, Okay, I
got nothing like that, like Iwas telling you about, like,
straight my face. He's got myface. And so, so I do feel like

(48:39):
there was like a little bit oflike, No, I'm a single mom, I'm
doing this thing. We're thescience experiment. That's what
we're gonna stick to. And I feltlike protective also of like, I
was raised with two parents,like, you know, another, and it
wasn't called a mom back then,like another parent who was a
woman, my mom was with at thetime I was conceived. And I had
a brother, who, like I wasraised with who was her child

(49:01):
from a previous marriage to men.
And I felt Oh, I hope that theydon't feel like because I'm
pursuing these relationships.
And I was like, pretty jazzedabout it. They feel like they're
less than to me now. Or like,I'm gonna cast them aside. And I
definitely I had some of thoseconversations with them. But I
was really aware of it. And Ithink for me as a parent, and
only as you talked about whatit's like for your kids, like,

(49:21):
my kids are adopted, and myexperience is appearance of
being like, Oh, you got thisbiological family out there. But
like you have this family that'sraising you like how do you
negotiate like contact versuslike, you're going to be in the
family that you're being raisedin? Or like how do you deal with
biological sibling relationshipsand things like that, like my
mind really opened having hadthat experience myself and being
like, oh, like, I don't feel anyless a part of the family I was

(49:42):
raised by. I just feel like oh,this is super cool. Like I can
know myself a little bit better.
Because I mean, he's reallyawesome people and y'all are
talking awesome. So it's justlike nice to like, be like these
people are my relatives. Likehow fun is that? And I feel like
we bought like many of us havehad a chance to get to know each
other a little bit and eat andhang out and like, I'm sure
that's gonna continue. And solike that, for me has been like

(50:04):
augmentative to my life asopposed to like taking me out of
the other person's life. But Ithink I felt really protective
of those parts. Liz Kay, I'm

Elizabeth Solomon (50:13):
curious for you, if your aunt and uncle hurt
if it had any impact on yourrelationship with

Unknown (50:17):
them, I would not say it had any impact on our
relationship. But it is notsomething that we talk about
much at all. They I considerthat my mom and dad like they're
my parents. And I think havingadopted me and having the story
that I have, I think they workedreally hard to try and make me
feel like I was one of them andincorporate me fully into their

(50:40):
existing families. So I do thinkbreaking that protection is
something that they don'tnecessarily want to do. I don't
want to speak for them. But Ithink it's just something we
don't really talk about, I thinkthey they keep that safety
around her relationship. Andthis is something that is mine,
separate

Elizabeth Solomon (50:59):
of them. I would love to have you all share
the story of how you actuallyfound who your donor was, and
whoever wants to share some ofthe details of that along with.
And you just talked about this alittle bit when but when you
first saw his picture, and justknowing that when we have a
visual for someone how real itbecomes, I would love to have

(51:22):
you bring us into that moment.

Unknown (51:26):
I feel like Laura has to take this one. Because she
was the lead investigator. Itwas so cool to watch her dig
into this and take it on as partof her story. I think I don't
want to speak for you, Laura. Ithink that this was a really big
project that she undertook. Andit was so fantastic to support

(51:50):
her in that but watch her kindof dig in and seeing the picture
whether it's like, oh, it's whenit's a guy when Yeah, there was
like, no doubt in my mind. WhenI saw that picture. I was like
that dude bothered, you can'tget genetics aside like you are

(52:10):
the daddy. But Laura, I wouldlove to have you take that one.
Yeah, I'm happy to talk aboutit. So we like we had speculated
for gosh, I don't know, twoyears at that point about could
this be what was the commonfeature that we all share facial
physical feature we all shared?
What was that missing link. Andlike I said, I'm just like a dog

(52:33):
with a bone when it comes tofinding investigating a story.
And so I had been clued into agroup on Facebook for there's a
whole community, there'sprobably several communities,
for people that are called N PE, which stands for not parent
expected. And these are placeswhere individuals such as

(52:58):
myself, who thinks they have acertain parent and realize they
don't can go and get support.
Because that is like very, asyou heard earlier, it's very
upsetting. And so I joined oneof these groups. And it was
extremely hard to get into thegroup I had to be interviewed,

(53:18):
but they're very serious people.
I'd be interviewed by this groupthat like phone calls or
something Facebook messages,what's your story, tell us
everything. And then they let mein. And then they said we have
another group, they had manygroups, you can join up sub
branches of this. So one of thegroups was called an angel
group. And it was where and DNAangels are people who are

(53:43):
extremely interested ingenealogy. And they are the
angels are dedicated tovolunteering their time to help
individuals discover theirbiological parents, essentially.
So I had to go through anapplication process to get into

(54:04):
the angel group I got into theangels, then the angels needed
my they needed so muchinformation for me. To move
forward with my request. I hadto put my DNA all over the
internet. So I can thisbrilliance can be cloned, just
if anyone would like it. It'sout there for the world. I had
to put it on multiple sites. Ihad to tell them our story. I

(54:29):
had to do the best to constructour heritage or lineage as far
as we knew, which was verylimited, obviously. And then
they went into all of thosewebsites that I put my DNA on
and they searched and they builtour family tree for us. And in
that process of building thefamily tree, which correct me if

(54:49):
I'm wrong, I think it took like,under a week. They were just all
in it. They discovered Ross andwe He could not find him on our
own because the closest we couldfind was a second cousin. But by
putting my DNA on all thesesites, they weren't actually

(55:12):
able to find a first cousin. Andthat was what enabled them to
crack the case. Essentially,that's how we learned. That's
how we learned about Ross. And Iremember the first time I saw a
photo, I'm like, I can't berelated to that guy looked
nothing like him. But when lookslike a spitting image, it's just

(55:35):
at and Shawn as well. It'sreally wild. And yeah, so that's
what happened.
I also wanted to say like, Ifeel like there was this
simultaneous process of like,when was K was was saying
something about as soon as Ineeded to know I needed to know
everything there was like thisoffline that like precipitated

(55:56):
that and went on during it likeconstant Nancy drilling. Okay,
let me pull up all the alumniphotos from 1975. Like the class
of 84. There's this guy of ourjawline. Okay, that guy totally
has our eyes. Let's go check itout. Let's see what's going on.
And there was like, all thesepieces. And I feel like it was
just like, it was reallyinteresting to like, be on the
project with all of you guys.
And I think Laura, you obviouslylike really brought her home in

(56:18):
this amazing way by like findingthose folks. And we were like,
okay, cool, like, great. We gotthere. But it was also just like
a fun, like, process to just bein that with you all and be
like, okay, like, how much doesit matter? Yeah.
We looked at so many genericwhite guys that Harriman we had
initially thought, oh, thisperson, because we have really,

(56:40):
there's not one we don't haveone knows, or, I mean, there are
shared characteristics,obviously. But we're like, maybe
he's a real generic working die.
And the dominant genetics werepulled from our mom's side. And
we're just looking at thesepeople like me, me, they could
be the dad, but they're justdies. And then when we got

(57:00):
Ross's picture, and similar toLaura, I didn't think he looks
like me until I really put ourpictures all in a lineup. And I
was like, okay, then I see itjust like when I look at Glenn
tonight together, and you lookat us, like right there, you can
see that we're related, but itwas looking at him and being
like, yes, that is a familymember of hours. But it was a

(57:23):
fun process to go throughyearbooks. And I think Liz was
digging into and a lot ofclassmates stuff. That was fun.
What other characteristics

Elizabeth Solomon (57:36):
do you feel like you all share? Just curious
just to go around, I almostwanted to do a little round
robin, where I just shout it outthings like favorite cereal, and
just had you guys like chime inwith those little details. But
I'm curious over the past, gosh,what, three, four years now of
video chatting. Some of you havemet in person. I've been blessed
enough to meet some of you inperson. What are the things that

(57:58):
you've noticed? You're like, oh,yeah, this is like common
denominator. We talked aboutrisk riskiness or an appetite
for a full life. But

Unknown (58:06):
what else? I know that at least Gwen and I, maybe
everyone else does it to have acommon habit of when we're
relaxed and speaking. Doingthis. Yeah,

Elizabeth Solomon (58:22):
putting your hand over your head. I

Unknown (58:23):
should. Thank you. I should explain what I'm doing
for the audio. Yeah, we have acommon feature putting her hand
over her head while we talk. AndI think when I realized that we
weren't several of us, if notall of us, we're doing that. So
that one reallycomes out. I just made a photo
montage of it from Google fromour Marcopolo chats and

(58:43):
everything like that one Twitteranother.
Does anybody else leave withtheir hands near their face? I
totally unconscious. But a lotof times when I wake up, I'm
like, smushed up. And I was bornwith my hand. Like right up here
to like my hand came out first.
Sorry, mom. Like I was asking aquestion. So yeah, I was like

(59:08):
born like this womb. So there isa lot of, but I think we share a
sense of humor. I think havingbeing able to laugh at ourselves
and situations in our lives isvery important. Yeah, I think
the boldness, the Cracklin. OatBran. I think most of us are
coffee drinkers too. I don'tSean Are you a coffee drinker?

(59:30):
Sean? I can't remember him.
Definitely a coffee drinker. AndI do have my arm over my head
quite often. I'm getting out.
Yeah, we'll accent a call. I 10really easily which I didn't get
from my parents, my mom so Ithink I really get a sunburn.
Usually it'll just be like adeep tan if anything. So I don't

(59:54):
know if we share that butI think too about some of the
conversations, just like knowingsome of the things that each of
us have been through in thelast, however many, four years
since we met and connected someof this longer. And there is
like a really remarkable abilityto light like, I think we all do

(01:00:15):
a little bit of this, oh, yeah,things are hard, and then you
just make it through. But what Iactually take a minute to think
about what any one of you hasbeen through in the last four
years, or what I've been throughthe last four years in terms of
like life changes, or turmoil orchallenges, or like unexpected
things that have happened thathave been hard. It's nobody's
everybody's about water in thisway that like, is really

(01:00:37):
remarkable to me, like, I don'tknow that I know, for other
people who put life or fiveother people in my life who
could do the same thing. Andthat, to me feels like this
really sweet connection to thatpaternal lineage and to all
of you. There's definitely aresiliency in there that we all

(01:00:58):
share. I also, and I don't knowif this is a product of starting
with Hi, we have the same spermdonor. But I do feel like a lot
of us are able to be honest andgo to a certain level of depth
with others that a lot of otherpeople maybe wouldn't do as
quickly as we do. Very bad atsmall talk, I want to know what

(01:01:21):
makes you tick pretty quickly.
And I know we're really good atdoing that amongst ourselves.
Again, maybe because of wherewe're starting from. But I also
feel like that's something thatthat we all share more broadly.

Elizabeth Solomon (01:01:35):
It's interesting, I remember being
struck by reading Ross'sobituary, and some of the
character traits that came outthrough his obituary that felt
like I could really, certainlysee them and Gwen and see them
and all of you as well. And justthis piece of being someone who
is emotionally intelligent,wants to connect with human
beings is really centered onbuilding relationships. And it

(01:01:55):
seems obvious, that's acharacter strength that has led
you all to each other. Right?
There could have been a realityin which you said, Great, we
know who each other are. And nowthat we know who each other are,
it's going to end here, andwe're not actually going to stay
connected for all this time andgo as deep as we have. And I'm
wondering, does that feel like asurprise to any of you to find
yourselves here? X amount ofyears later, doing a podcast

(01:02:17):
episode together, being inconversation together? Like did
you in your wildest dreams? Didyou expect to have an actual
relationship with your unknownbiological siblings?

Unknown (01:02:29):
I never thought about that. But I think that we do
share probably like a spiritualconnection or an open to this
deeper meaning and differentways. I think, for all of us
that Shawn touched on it earlierthat she really felt like this
was where God had put her. And Ido feel like there are things

(01:02:52):
that have happened amongst thisgroup where I'm like, yeah,
there's just there is a threadthat I can't quite explain. You
know, I'm in lizards baby bookfrom her bio mom. There's a
picture of us like holding handsas infants. And Katie McKee was
a friend of mine growing up, andI was obsessed with her for some

(01:03:13):
unknown reason, I just alwaysfelt extremely connected to this
other person, to the point whereI tracked her down after high
school, and we lived togetherand she was a bridesmaid in my
wedding, and then come to findout, she's my sister. And I was
like we had done. I knew thatfrom like, day one. Now it's
just official and meeting Laura,and remeeting, Gwen, and Shawn.

(01:03:37):
And just, I think it issurprising, but it's also not
surprising that we're stilltalking because I think, I don't
know, there's just somethingthere. And I don't know how each
of us would describe that. But Ido think that it's hard for me
personally, to deny that itfeels like it was always meant
to come out, or these peoplewere always meant to cross paths

(01:03:59):
with me. And I'm learning fromthem. And we share these things.
And yeah, it does feel likethere was some fate, I guess,
designed in that process. Let'ssay that we're only half of the
siblings on this call. And solike, I totally agree with what
Liz is saying. And I think thereason why the group of people
on this call have gotten closeto one another is because like

(01:04:23):
we've wanted to, we've put inthe work of building friendships
with one another and camaraderieand joking around. I will say
one thing really cool about thisgroup is we don't judge anyone
else for participating more orless. It's totally cool. That's
okay. Nope, I don't think anyoneharbors bad feelings for that.

(01:04:45):
We're all just prettyunderstanding.
I was struck by that when wefound Russ and all hopped on
that Zoom call. And ostensiblywe were in a space like all
hearing that our dad had died.
You know what I mean? We foundhim and found out that he was no
longer alive at the same moment.
And just the level of likerespect that everyone had for

(01:05:08):
everyone else's process. In thatmoment, hey, like, here's where
I am, like really honest, here'swhere I am, I totally can
imagine that you might not be inthe same place. And that's okay.
Here's how I want to proceed.
How do you do breathing? How canwe all protect each other in the
context of wanting to make surethat everybody gets to
experience this and processes inwhatever way they need to? Like
that, to me stood out sosignificantly as like, almost

(01:05:31):
like emblematic of like, what Iappreciate about the connection
that we seem to share is likethat, what you're talking about
more of like, do you like Itotally respect that, and I'm
like here and Mobin. And I mightnot always be, and I know that
you'll be cool with that,too. I just wanted to say like,
I never expected, in my wildestdreams to have such in depth,

(01:05:52):
strong relationships with mypotential half siblings. And so
that is super surprising, butalso really fulfilling. And I am
grateful for the experience nowthat I'm on the other side of
it, going through it as likeyour teenage years and in your

(01:06:13):
20s. And you're trying to figureout who you are. And all that
was hard. But now, I'm just sograteful and appreciative. And
as master was saying, like,there was definitely divine
intervention to all of this. Andit's just super cool. I love you
guys. I do feel like I want tomention that Gwen was saying we

(01:06:36):
all processed, cutting out whoRoss was, and that he was dead.
That hit me hard, personallyfinding out that he was dead
like that. shut me for a while.
But knowing that there aresiblings that do not know about
us that were raised by Ross, andI did say earlier that I don't

(01:07:00):
believe that's going to staysecret forever. But we as a
group did discuss, what do we dowith this information there?
Mom, I don't want to get toointo detail. But there it was,
we're trying to be respectful ofthe boundaries that their family
has. And even though I'm reallycurious to find out more
information, we as a groupdecided that obviously, there's

(01:07:24):
no rules where we can't controleach other's behavior and
actions. And some of us feelmore strongly about having them
included, and others feel likeit's not our place. But we all
have respected that boundary.
And nobody has broken the sealon that, even though it feels
like hey, it's out there. Soit's floating around. But none
of us have gone forward withtrying to establish that. And I

(01:07:47):
think that says a lot about usas well that even though we may
land differently on what wethink the outcome is going to be
that we as a group were like,Yeah, we're going to respect
that boundary, we're going tolet that play out the way that
it's supposed to play outnaturally.

Elizabeth Solomon (01:08:03):
So in our last minute here, we'll take a
minute and look at each otherand I just curious looking at
each other today. What would yousay that your siblings mean to
you?

Unknown (01:08:14):
Just popcorn style.
This is my sister had. Yeah, youguys are my family that I never
knew I had. camaraderie. Andpeople who I think innately
understand me. safe landing is asafe space, it's it's family.

(01:08:43):
I feel like I can trust all ofyou and feel like
you can trust me. I feel likethere's nothing I could say to
this group that they wouldn't bein my corner and when support me
and even if it was done, Boris,I have failed money. And that's

(01:09:04):
really nice.

Elizabeth Solomon (01:09:05):
And I will investigate the shit out of that
case, if I think you've beenwrongly

Unknown (01:09:08):
accused. The United States government has no idea
what they're missing out on bynot capturing this group of
individuals and our powers.
I think like the what we haverecorded on Marco Polo, we have
to trust each other. There'sreal trust there given the
things we told each other andthat they're on record.

(01:09:31):
I am

Elizabeth Solomon (01:09:32):
totally teary eyed. I was even getting teary
eyed before doing this interviewjust thinking about you all so
I'm so grateful.
That's it for today's episode offirst person plural, and
millions of people out there anda similar situation to the

(01:09:53):
siblings. This story raises aquestion for all of us. How
important is it To know whereand who we come from, what's
nature? What's nurture? And whatare the all the ways that we
build self awareness across ourlifespan. If you want to hear

(01:10:15):
more about this story, Irecommend picking up a copy of
Gwen's book immaculatemisconception due to come out in
May of 2023. You can find thelink for that in the show notes.
Thanks for tuning in.

Kerry Seed (01:10:43):
That's it from us.
Special thanks to our guests theSister Act, Gwen bass, Sean
calvess. Laura Khalil, Elizabethcaseless. Elizabeth mess Berg
and Katie silver. Be sure tocheck out our show notes for a
transcript of today's show andmore about when basses book
immaculate misconception you canfind those notes on our website

(01:11:04):
first person plural.com That'sfirst person plural.com. And
don't forget to follow us onInstagram at Keystep media.
Elizabeth Solomon hosted today'sepisode, Brian Johnson is our
artist in residence, SerenaKardon does marketing. Our music
is by goats beats and I amCarrie seed. This podcast is
sponsored by Keystep media, yoursource for personal and

(01:11:28):
professional developmentmaterials focused on mindfulness
leadership and emotionalintelligence. Take care and
we'll talk soon