December 17, 2025 • 41 mins
#freedmenfriday Cidney Calloway is the co-chair of the Detroit Reparations Task Force. She is a social justice advocate and community organizer known for her involvement in Black Lives Matter, M4BL and the Detroit Justice Center. On this podcast we get the latest on the reparations initiative in Detroit Michigan.
https://detroitmi.gov/government/city-council/city-council-president-district-5/reparations-task-force
https://www.instagram.com/diprimaradio/
https://detroitmi.gov/government/city-council/city-council-president-district-5/reparations-task-force
https://www.instagram.com/diprimaradio/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. We need a few trillion, and
we focus on that debt every single Friday, second hour
of the show. It's called Freedman Friday. We take a
look at reparations in a comprehensive conversation that is meant
(00:20):
to make sure that we are up on what is
going on, well informed. Part of the solution, part of
the momentum, and there's a lot to keep up with.
Even in these crazy, crazy, trumpy, trumpy times, people are
keeping it moving on the local, state and county level.
(00:42):
I'm being joined today by a social justice advocate and
community organizer. She's known for her involvement in the Black
Lives Matter movement. Born and raised in Detroit, Michigan, she
says she's had a passion for justice since being a
little kid. Organizer, of course, a vocal abolitionist. During the
(01:03):
twenty twenty worked with the Movement for Black Lives and
continues her journey as an activist working now at the
Detroit Justice Center. Welcome to the co chair of the
Detroit Reparations Task Force, Sidney Callaway.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Good morning, Good morning, how are you.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
I'm blessed. It's a reparatory rising as we'd like to
say on Friday, saw you doing.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
I'm doing really well. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Yeah, thanks first for joining us. One of the things
that I'd like to point out is, for me, one
of the signs of momentum is the fact that more
cities have taken up reparations as a commission, a task force,
some kind of initiative, even though we have this federal
thing that's been sitting there since the eighties and has
(01:59):
not made did it, you know, onto the floor for
a vote on a local level, on a state level,
and most remarkably on a city level, reparations is being
taken up. So tell us about what the task force
looks like in Detroit.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah. So, in the City of Detroit, there was a
ballot initiative that went out on our twenty twenty one
vote during election, and I believe we're still one of
the first cities to actually have our city vote on
putting together this task force or commission. We were seated
in twenty twenty three, and we just completed and published
our report October thirty first, twenty twenty five. So that's
(02:39):
available online through the City Detroit at Detroit and my
dot gov. Backslash reparations. It's a body of think. There
were thirteen of us, and it was a lot of work.
So we had our meetings weekly. We held quite a
few public sessions over the course of the last year,
make sure that we were staying grounded and informed from
(03:03):
by our neighbors, because I don't like to call them
constituents or community members. It's like, these are our neighbors
and are our family and friends. But yeah, it was
a lot of really good work, and I don't think
I was anticipating just how emotional this work would be.
I joined as the youngest person on this task force
and was quickly elevated into a leadership position. Nice and
(03:23):
just honor to do the work. It was an intergenerational
journey and an intergenerational lift. So I got to learn
quite a bit, not only about the movement, but about
my city and the experiences of my elders, but then
also quite a bit about myself. So that's pretty much
the formation of the task force here in the City
of de Trade.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
And talk to me a little bit about like who
those other thirteen folks are and what the process was
that you went through beforehanding over this report.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah, so in twenty twenty one, of course, again a
bout initiative was passed. Of these, I believe eighty five
percent of the City of detred voted to have that
commissi informed or our task worce forms. Then we went
through an interview process, so they opened up applications and
you applied to be considered. Then after being considered, you
went through an interview process with our city council. And
(04:13):
then after that city council members, which are I think
nine I believe nine, I know it's nine, voted on
whether or not you would join the task force. Besides myself,
the majority of the task wers were our academicians and
even more so were abolitionists and activists in their own rights.
(04:33):
So quite a few Africana studies professors, quite a few
principles of Afro centered schools here in the city Detroit,
quite a lot of PhDs. So it was amazing space
to be in so much knowledge, and again just because
they're educators, there was a lot of conversations about how
we continue to educate not only our neighbors, but everyone
(04:55):
else interested in moving us forward, about reparations and how
it's more than just a cash payment.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
And certainly from what I can see online, you've got
Detroit all a flame intellectually politically talking about this report.
You know, you delivered it. What do you expect the
next steps to be? And then let's talk about this
some of the issues that you've brought to the forefront here.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Yeah, So we actually just had an election here in
the city and we'll be getting our first black woman
mayor coming up. So we are in the process of, Yes,
we're in the process of ideating around what we want
to see for her first one hundred days to make
sure that reparations and repair for the black community here
is at the forefront of all of her initiatives and
(05:49):
all of her just her goals over her first one
hundred days, and then also how to continue that throughout
the duration of her administration. So we're in conversation right
now amongst ourselves about how we get that coversation going,
not only talking to her as the mayor, Mary Sheffield
as the mayor, but talking to her team and her
department heads and her administrative people. Just to make sure
(06:10):
that you know that we keep this momentum going and
that we are just moving, We're making progress as a
city because that eighty five percent that voted for this
initiative back in twenty twenty one. Those are imaginaries, right,
those are our visionaries, and they're like, they see the
potential of the traiting and they see detraiting new light,
and they want to make sure that this first step
(06:32):
is taken.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
I mean, what surprises me about Well, a couple things
surprised me about what you just said. One the fact
that you're getting your first black woman mayor. Because Detroit
has a huge black population. It's not like La where
we have something like eight percent of us in the population.
When we elect a black mayor, that's amazing, black woman mayor.
(06:55):
I'm just shocked that it took took that long over there.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Yeah, so, I mean we've had a black mayor since
the seventies and then mayor dug in for the past
twelve years with a white man. But this is our
first black woman man. And I think that's the most
surprising part of it all, for sure, the women that
are stepping into these prominent roles across the country. Finally,
but yeah, definitely here and this is the Detroit where
we're about seventy five percent black, and I know people
(07:23):
always like well justin and like Atlanta, Houston, but like, no,
Detroit is the blackest city in America, sitting around four
hundred and fifty two thousand black people. So yeah, that
is a little surprising, but again it's progress that we
have to make, and that just it depends on mentalities
and ideals and just things that we were taught, things
(07:45):
that were learning and unlearning.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
So and then the other part of that is, I mean,
I guess to me, it's not super duper surprising. Well,
eighty five percent is pretty big approval that you know,
we were our country was in a different mindset. Then
sadly we're in full on backlash right now. But still
with such a large black population, it's it's great, but
(08:09):
still not totally shocking. But now I was surprised to
see the amount of well, I don't know why I
was surprised. I guess because I'm thinking, well, Detroit is
a black city, but the amount of pushback in the
press saying, oh, this is too expensive, it's unrealistic, it's
activists agenda blah blah blah. Were you surprised by that?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
No, just because you do well. Sometimes I appreciate the
people who are thinking in real terms. But again, the
world's not going to move forward and change unless we
envision what that changes. Everything that we do was an
idea at one time. Everything that exists was an idea
at one time. And so the people who are like, oh,
we can't do this or this is unaccomplishable, it's like
(08:55):
they said the same thing about slavery, right, so we
were all and that was a legal thing, it was
on the books once upon a time. There was a
whole war about it. So it's not surprising that a
lot of people don't have those imaginations anymore and they
can't really envision a new world. But everybody's like, you
want to be the change, you know, be the change
(09:16):
you want to see, create the change you want to see,
and it's like, this is our opportunity to really do that,
and it's one step at a time, and this report
is the first step in a long journey to come Yes.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Indeed, we're talking with Sydney Callaway, the co chair of
the Reparations Task Force in the City of Detroit, to
find out what's in your report and what you're doing
about it when we come forward. On KBLA talk fifteen
to eighty. Sydney Callaway is my guest. She's the co
chair of the Detroit Reparations task Force. It's almost a
(09:47):
six hundred page document that you guys plopped down in
your city just about a month ago, and it's pretty comprehensive.
Let's talk about some of the things that you have
have put forth in this report. It's not just facts,
it's also recommendations here.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Yes, absolutely, so that ballot initiative that was voted on
back in twenty twenty one explicitly stated that we are
to recommend items around economic development and housing. But once
we got the group together, the task forces like we
would be remissed if we didn't touch on everything that
is umbrellaed under those items housing and economic development. So yes,
(10:30):
our first couple of recommendations focus on those two topics,
but the rest of the report touches on everything that's
impacted or impacts those topics. So there's cultural recommendations, there's
recommendations around education and quality of life, there's recommendations around,
(10:51):
of course, the economic development and housing. But we just
want to make sure there was a whole list. We
took a whole list of approach to our recommendations, and
our number one recommendation is the development of an office
so that we can dedicate all of our time and
focus on repairing our communities.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Right, And it's it also includes cash. I mean, it's
not only policy recommendations.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Correct. And then the way that we approached the cash
recommendation was not to give them a direct number, because
we wanted to allow space for variety, knowing and understanding
that black people in the city and the Detroit experience
is not monolithic, that it's not one size fits all.
So twenty five thousand dollars might be great for one
instance and one individual, but twenty five dollars thousand dollars
(11:36):
for a family may not be It may not deliver
the same type of repair. So we wanted to make
sure that there was space to make sure that everybody
got what they deserved and demanded.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
You guys are pretty specific though. Housing grants up to
forty grand right, Yes, construction of affordable housing units for
African American residents step fifty percent of the area median
income rent control. To me, that doesn't sound like operations.
It sounds like good policy. Doesn't sound like operations, But
(12:09):
I see that you do have that in here, Yes,
and then grants of up to one hundred thousand businesses
displaced by prior urban renewal and development projects. I mean
lots of new lots of rent free space for eligible
black owned businesses within new commercial strip malls for five years.
(12:30):
I guess that's kind of like a starter starter kit
for black businesses. I mean, you have very specific recommendations.
How did you guys come to these?
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Yeah, So, again, going back through our history and understanding
the demographic, we noticed and watched and observed what was
taken from us during a lot of pivotal moments in
this throughout the city, in Trait's history, and we wanted
to make sure that those people were repaired equivalently, equivalently
(13:01):
to the way that they were harmed. Right, So we
had the help of the University of Michigan with our
Harms Report, We had the help of Howard University's Law
School and Columbia University with our impact analysis, and the
data that we extracted from those two documents helped inform us.
And then of course talking to our neighbors, having those
one on one conversations, collecting those oral testimonies also ensured
(13:24):
that we were informed about what would make what would
make our people hole again, And these were specifically talking
about the businesses the Black Bottom area in the Paradise
Valley area, but not excluding the areas that were impacted
by the urban renewal, Negro removal, sending highways through different
areas in the city.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Food Sovereignty and Nutrition Equity Fund to support black owned grocers, cooperatives,
community kitchens and food markets. Where is the funding. Well,
first of all, it's a great idea. I wish we
had that here in la How do you see that working.
Where do these funds for all these programs and proposals
(14:06):
come from.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Well, luckily, the City of Detroit already has quite a
few of these programs on the books and operating. What
we want to do is go in and audit those
programs to ensure that they're impacting our audiences appropriately by
making sure that black people are getting the majority of
the support from these programs. And again, because the city
(14:28):
of Detroit is seventy five percent black, all of this
good policy will majoritly impact or will impact the majority
here in the city, which would be black people who
have suffered at the hands of the city. But yeah, again,
We didn't want to reinvent the wheel, and we didn't
really want to impose on our standing budgets. A lot
of the new programming after we audit existing programming that
(14:50):
will come from philanthrophic arms, that will come from really
going in and being creating more robust community benefits agreements
and holding and holding those developers accountable. Now that the
City of Detroit seems to be enticing for developers, So
it's just standing on business and making sure that we
call to heal those who violate some of those agreements
(15:12):
and contracts with the city. And that's where a lot
of the funding may come from.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Yeah, that's always the excuse. So, I mean, we've heard
it ad nauseum here in California. It's a bad budget year.
We really can't afford this. It's not realistic. You already
said they've you're in and rightly so that you know,
during our Ancestors Day, it was, oh well, slavery can
never be abolished. It's part of you know, it's part
(15:37):
of the fabric of our society. It's part of our
But when when you're getting pushed back specifically around you know,
budget and it's we're in a down year, we're in
a down cycle. How do you overcome that?
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Well, Luckily, again, a lot of the programs that we're
discussing are already but it is for they're already a
part of the city's plans and our incoming mayor. She
was the one who pretty much put this task force together,
put this form this task force, So hopefully we'll have
her support and the support of her administration to continue
working on auditing the programs, making sure they're a bit
(16:18):
more robust and sustained, and that they're impacting the areas
that we've outlined as the most targeted areas. So it
won't necessarily just be based on a good or bad
budget year. It's like these things, the things that we're
already doing, we probably just need to revamp maybe our
marketing or removing some obstacles to access for these programs,
(16:38):
making sure that they are a little bit easier for
people to apply for, and then maybe shrinking hiring more
people to strength like the waiting list for a couple
of these programs. So those are the types of things
that we're trying to get done hopefully during this first
this first four years, this first term for Mayor Mary
Sheffield and then perhaps identifying some gaps to fill with
(17:02):
new programming.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Yeah, the one of your Detroit papers here, I'm trying
to find it is quoting a member of the task
force saying that he doesn't support the recommendations of the
task force, saying that it is And then it became
(17:23):
too long. It became an intellectual exercise, was there?
Speaker 2 (17:28):
You know? Is there?
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Are we talking about healthy sort of debate. It just
surprised me that someone would go to the press after
working on this process for years and undermine the process itself.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Yeah, so if you do a little bit more digging
on that particular member, you'll just see a bit of
a pattern there. And like I said, there, the table
was full of academicians and our PhDs, because these are
the people who are well versed in research and a
lot of data quantifying and qualifying. So a lot of
(18:03):
ideas still do need a lot of backwork in order
to come to fruition. So it's great to just have
an idea to tell people on, but you still have
to engineer how these things will work. And that's what
we were doing around the table. We were engineering and
designing and trying to come up with ways to make
these items tangible versus just selling people on the dream
(18:26):
of possibilities and programs. So I think that's where a
lot of that conversation and where those ideas and opinions
may have come from, because we did spend quite a
few hours around the table talking about where the funding
would come from, who were the targets for those philanthropic donations,
what the conversations would be like with our city leaders
and with those with the actual power to make these
(18:48):
decisions and changes, versus garnering just the support of our
neighbors and a couple of business people. So of course
in every group, there's going to be a little bit
of strife, all right, no doubt. But we've always appreciated
that good scrutiny and that good criticism because, if anything,
it just encouraged us to get a little bit more
(19:08):
innovative and creative.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
I mean, really, part of the reason I bring it
up is because one of the challenges for the reparations movement,
which you know, I mean, it's a debt that's owed
to us, So it shouldn't matter. You got to pay
your debts, no matter what your opinion is about them,
but public opinion has been mixed, and here in California
people have supported reparations except when it came with a
(19:32):
check in terms of public opinion. How is public opinion
playing a role there is you know, are you worried
about are you feeling the impact of this new administration
and the sort of anti DEI energy policy that's going around,
or is it pretty strongly supported in your opinion.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Yeah, so we absolutely have strong support here in the city.
I think our biggest debate that happened publicly with about
eligibility and more so who would be eligible for reparations
in the city Detroit, not necessarily where the money would
come from or what that reparation looks like, because we're
all pretty much on the same page about needing holistic repair.
(20:18):
But yeah, we have support here in the city, and
I think it's just coming down to how we start
to implement things and help making sure people understand that
there is no such thing as repairing generations of harm,
which is what we experience here in the city as
black people and throughout the nation. You cannot repair hundreds
of years of harm and violation within two years or
(20:44):
three years. And with a report, right, it's going to
take a lot of time to build out these programs,
to see them to fruition, and to track the progress
to measure the impact that it's having.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Yeah, and when we come forward after news, traffic and sports,
right here, I do want to dive into how you
came to your process, how you came to your conclusion
about who is eligible and who is not. It's an
interesting formula that you have, and of course that's always
going to be one of the most contentious pieces. I
think California did a good job on it, but now
(21:16):
our governor is kicking the can down the road, trying
to stall the implementation of actual reparations by doing yet
another study to decide who is eligible. So I want
to unpack, unbox your process and where you landed on that.
In Detroit, Detroit Reparations Task Force co chair Sydney Calloway
(21:38):
is my guest, and you're listening to Freedman Friday on
KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. You belong here. We're glad that
you are here. It's a Freedman Friday and we're talking
with Sidney Callaway. She's the co chair of the Detroit
Reparations Task Force. So talk to me about your process
and where you landed with who is eligible, because I
(22:01):
noticed that your definition seems to be broader than what
California landed on. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Absolutely, So we only have a few requirements for eligibility,
but to be black, of course, because we didn't want
to exclude anybody, because again, race is a visual thing
and they're not going to exclude you from the harms.
They're going to take one look at you and treat
you how they see you. And then we wanted you
to be old enough to be able to really use
(22:32):
the funds and be able to participate in the programs
to make sure that these items were beneficial for your
lifestyle and for you. And then we wanted you to
live in the city Detroit because I was joking with
the task for saying that I am young enough to
become a reparations nomad. If me be so three to
five years, I can move to any town that's awesome
reparations to black people, live there for the extent of
(22:54):
time required to qualify, qualify, get my money, and then
move on to the next pace. So we were like,
we wanted just to sustainable, we wanted to be feasible,
and we wanted it to be inclusive because again, we
didn't want to perpetuate any further harm on our community members.
And even though some people may have chosen to come here,
they didn't choose to be violated, they didn't choose to
(23:17):
be to be harmed. So we didn't want to exclude anybody,
and we also wanted to ensure that we heard everybody's
story because we don't know, we don't know everything about
every persone.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
So the eligibility means, I mean, from what I'm reading,
you have to be have lived in Detroit twenty years,
You got to be black, You have to be the
descendant of enslaved, of harmed people not enslaved, right, could
be harmed by Jim Crow, could be harmed by enslavement.
(23:51):
But you don't have to be Black American. You guys
have opened it up to anybody who's been in the
in Detroit twenty years who is black, even if they're
Caribbean or African, And that here in California was one
of the big controversial pieces. Was that a sticking point
(24:14):
for you guys?
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Yes, So that was one of the longest conversations that
we had around the table and with our neighbors during
our public session, and the reason why we wanted to
keep it so open is because again, they may have
chosen to come here. They their families may have chosen
to come here, but they did not choose to be
discriminated against, or harmed or violated in any way any
(24:37):
illegal actions taken against them. They did not choose for
that to be a victim of those instances. So we
did not want to exclude them and then continue the harm.
We didn't want to perpetuate that harm. So we wanted
to make sure that everybody was covered. And again, it's
not a monolis. We are not all going through the
exacting thing. All of our experiences are not the same.
(24:58):
So we wanted to leave space for that, and we
wanted to make sure that there was capacity to again
make everyone whole. But it doesn't make people as possible.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
So is it descendant of it? Because what I'm reading
here it says descendant of an African enslaved in the
US or the diaspora. But does it mean that you'd
have to be the descendant of someone who was enslaved
or anyone in the diaspora who came and came to Detroit.
Was there twenty years and had experienced arms of Jim Crow,
would they also be eligible.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Well, it's as the descendant of an enslaved and you
come here more than likely you have been a victimized
or a victim of Jim Crow or apartheid or whatever
you'd like to call it these days. But yes, you
did have to be a descendant of an enslaved. But
we did not exclude the Caribbean because they have a
slave population. We did not want to exclude, you know,
any of the islands or any of the areas where
(25:50):
we knew the slave trade touched, because again, escaping those
areas and coming here during whatever's period of time, you
were still going to be impacted by Jim Crow or
discrimination or even police brutality. We did touch on that
quite a bit, and that's a bit of a new
contemporary lens that we wanted to make sure that we
(26:10):
were visualizing this harm through because when people think of reparations,
they only think of slavery, and they might think Jim Crow.
But even to this day, we have a lot of
families who are getting settlements from police forces using after
suffering police brutality, and we need to make them whole
as well.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Yeah, I may have you know, I may have misunderstood too,
because it sounds like you do have to be the
descendant of an enslaved person and be able to somehow
verify that, even though you might be from somewhere else.
So if you just came from Africa or anywhere in
(26:47):
the world in the Caribbean and you can't make that
direct connection to an enslaved person, then you wouldn't be eligible, correct.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
But this is what the development of that office is for,
is to offer genealogical research services and to make those connections.
Because it's very, very unlikely that any black person that's
in America right now was not related to an enslaved
person at one time or another, So we definitely want
to leave that open. And then again, not every program
(27:19):
is for everybody. So even if you aren't luckily related
to anybody that was once enslaved, you might not require
you might not qualify for some of the programs. But
there may be another way we can get resources to
you and make you whole in some other way.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
But is that reparations? I mean, is it? Well, you know,
I guess that's the that's the argument that I hear
is like, is that reparations. I feel like whether California
Task Force agreed on a lineage model, but they also
you know, obviously, if you some programs that help all
black people are going to help all black people, whether
(27:57):
they are descendants of enslaved persons or not. But part
of the conversation is not just about people's opinions of
who deserves repair, but also has to do with having
a viable legal standard that would hold up to challenges.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Correct. Correct, So we definitely had the advice with quite
a few lawyers in this movement who are extremely instrumental
to the way that we formed a lot of these
recommendations and the way we'll go forward crafting our policy
and legislation. But again, we did want to leave it
as broad and as open as possible, to not exclude
anybody because you again, we never know what somebody's experience was,
(28:38):
and if it was at the hands of the City
of Detroit, we do want to hold the city accountable.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
You present this report to the city council in January?
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Yes, we're working on a solid date right now.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
So what does that look like? What what do you
hope happens? And you know, what are the steps like.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Yeah, so we'll be taking about fifteen minutes out of
a formal session for our City Council presentation in front
of all nine members, hopefully if everyone's in attendance, and
we just want to touch on our major points, making
sure that we demonstrate the satisfaction of the resolution and
ballot initiative or a ballot question, and then just opening
the floor up for conversation and questions and answers, because
(29:23):
I know quite a few of them were unable to
make our public sessions over the years or only made
one or two, but we want to open up the
gateways for dialogue to having especially with us feeding two
new city council people, we wanted to bring them up
to speed with what our report was and what our
work was and why it's important that we keep it going,
keep this momentum going.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
And once you do the presentation to the city Council,
are they expected to come up with policy plans or
proposals as a follow up to that or you know,
how do we go from presentation to lamentation? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (30:02):
So our number one recommendation is the Reparations Administrative Administrative Office,
So hopefully that will be a small team of three
to five people that have, you know, expertise in different areas,
and they can come together look over our recommendations, look
at the programs that the city is already offering and
kind of match them in spaces to identify some gaps
(30:24):
to fill. So then that way we aren't you burdened
with creating entirely new programs and policies, but going through
our turner to see what the powers already that already
lie with the city council and what they can implement,
and working within those parameters to make sure we're putting
out something that's effective within the next five years.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
All Right, we're talking reparation. Sydney Callaway is with us.
She's from Detroit, out of Detroit, Michigan, where they have
just presented a little over a month ago, just presented
a comprehensive reparations report, almost six hundred pages. And that
report now will it's heading to the city council. So
reparations in motion, and yet another American city will look
(31:08):
a little deeper at what's inside when we come forward
on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. Indeed, it's a six hundred
page report. We're not going to unpack the whole thing
right now, right in real time on a Freedman Friday.
But we're talking with Sydney Galloway, co chair of the
Reparations Task Force for the City of Detroit, Michigan, and
(31:30):
give us some you know, top levels, some highlights for you,
things that you're most proud of or we're most surprised
by our most hard hitting coming out of this six
hundred page report.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Yeah. So again, being the youngest person on this Taskbard,
I think it was just the amount of history that
was here that I was just un pritty to. So
during our time working with High Law School and Columbia University,
we put together a three day reparations tour with the
(32:05):
city of Detroit's official historian, Baba Jamon Jordan, And what
he did was take us on a tour of the
city Detroit, pointing out specific spots of harm that are
still standing today. So I had an opportunity to go
touch the Birdwood wall that was erected during the forties
before before a developer put up this housing that he
(32:29):
was requesting FAHA funding for, and that was one of
the stipulations to physically separate this black neighborhood that was
already standing from this public housing that was going up.
In order to get that public funding, they had to
erect a wall that stands about six feet talls about
a foot fit and seeing things like that, Or going
(32:49):
and visiting the home of Osteen Suite, who literally was
mobbed by white people when he moved in and he
ended up killing two people, but got off because he
was protecting his home and protecting his family. Or going
to the Sojournal Truth Home, which is a project that
was erected during the Great Migration, where again white people
were physically blocking Black people from accessing these homes that
(33:14):
were built and constructed for them in this area of
the city trade So being able to see these things
in real time, being able to steel the energy that
still emanates from these spots of harm for black people,
and even hearing the stories from the elders around the
table that I had the opportunity to work with or
even my parents during the sixty seven uprising that happened
(33:37):
that pretty much kicked off and inspired the Kerner Commission
report to be produced. It was extremely overwhelming hearing the
stories of how it continues to impact my neighbors in
our communities. Again is just baffling. But then the internal
work and the internal evolution that I underwent as somebody
(33:59):
who was raised in the upper middle class in the
North Roastille Park area of the city on the west side,
I had the opportunity to attend so many different schools
and the privilege to just be exposed to so many
things in my city and outside of my city in
the Metro Detroit area. I had to deal with my
own elitism, in my own privilege in order to really
(34:20):
do this work and to communicate and talk to my
family and friends and other disproportionately divested areas throughout the city.
So it was a lot, And I don't know if
people really understand that reparations work isn't just about the money,
It isn't just about the history. But it's emotionally taxing
(34:40):
to hear the stories of humans who are sitting in
front of you asking to be made whole, and just
the opportunity to participate as school blown citizens and be
recognized their humanity and to be restored their dignity. So
it's quite a bit, and it's definitely more than just money.
It's just recognizing the humanity and restoring humanity. And society.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Yeah, tell folks how they can get a piece of
a little view of what you're doing. You know, I
think the reparations report is available to the public, right.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Yes, Detroit MI dot gov backslash reparations.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Detroit, m I from Michigan DETROITMI dot gov backslash reparations. Yes,
all right, what do you think how can we help? Like,
how can we support the work that you're doing? I
know that from my view, each time another city comes online,
(35:42):
each time another task force comes online, it helps normalize,
it helps create momentum. But what would you like to
see us do?
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Yeah? I invite everybody to visit First Repair dot org online.
That is the website for the First Repair Organization out
of Evanston, Illinois, headed by Robin Ruth Simmons. Evanson was
one of the first cities to actually produce reparations for
their constituents, and I got to witness about twenty people
(36:14):
received certificates of reparations over the weekend while I was
in Evanston for their fifth annual National Reparation Symposium. So
definitely check out First Repair online. There are quite a
bit of resources and quite a bit of data there,
and I believe we just need to really relearn a
lot of the jardon that is attached to the reparations conversation,
(36:37):
understanding that this is repair, that we were harmed, that
we were violated, that a lot of these acts that
were committed against us were illegal. So we have to
criminalize this conversation and really keep this momentum going. We
cannot shy away from using the words black and white.
We don't need to whisper those words in the company
of others anymore because we've been uncomfortable since we set
(36:59):
foot on this land. So this is an opportunity for
us to grow through that uncomfortability and make progress in
what this nation could truly and honestly be. So definitely
check out First Reparation dot org, read the reports that
are available there, find some data that's available there, and
there are quite a few books that we included in
(37:19):
our appendices that not only speaks to the history of
the city of Detroit, but it speaks to the current
climate for black people now. So it's a lot of research,
it's a lot of reading, but just making this a
kitchen table conversation. And then again, social media has been
the greatest tool for marketing anything as of right now.
(37:41):
So applying pressure for every city that is looking to
get these commissions started that has gotten them started but
have run into obstacles. We have to come together as
a nation behind these small municipal movements because these pilot
cities are what informs state and federal action.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Tell me what you know. We only got a couple
of minutes here, Sydney Calloway, But tell me what you
got out of the Evanston gathering.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Yes, So this is my third year attending the National
Reparation Symposium in Evanston, Illinois, and this is one of
my favorite conferences. We are bringing well, what they do
is they bring together people and experts throughout the reparations
moving movement globally. Right. So we're talking about doctor Ron
(38:30):
Daniels with in Kober. We're talking about cam Howard with
the ooh, I think it's the I think he's with Nark.
I might be mistaken, But we're talking about having candid
conversations and organic moments with some of these people who
have been doing this since the seventies and eighties. So
the intergenerational knowledge exchange and wisdom exchange and just the
(38:51):
tips of the trade. We're bringing in lawyers again from
Columbia University and from Howard Law School, and we're bringing
in our elected offishal So it's always a fantastic conference
to attend. And again I recommend everybody go at least
once because even though you may not be working on
reparations in an official capacity, for your own edification and
for your own knowledge, this is an opportunity to really
(39:15):
fine tune your conversation that you may have with a
neighbor that you might want to encourage or persuade to
support this movement, or just when you take this home
to your neighborhoods and your municipalities who you can talk
to to move some of these ideas forward. So it's
only about three hundred four hundred people, so that's a
perfect size for a conference. You can get coffee right
(39:36):
before a session starts. You're seeing the same faces over
and over, and it develops. You get to develop rapport
and familiarity with some of the people throughout the nation
who are working on this. So that was Evanson. And
then also they have a brick First Repair has a
brick and mortar resource center there where they hold the
books that are inspiring and motivating us, informing us on
(39:57):
this work. And then they're holding the public lotions from
these reparations task Force and commissions throughout the nation, throughout
the world, so you can always go there to refer
to things, because again, these are items that have things
that have happened throughout the nation and a million and
a half different Black communities, so none of it is new.
We'll just have to get creative about how we repair
each community.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
Yeah, that's well said. You got sixty seconds here, Sidney Calloway.
I grant them to use them value will sure.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Again, I just definitely want to thank you for having
me on. I want to thank all your listeners for
tuning in and paying attention to a topic like this.
But I definitely want to boost the First Repair Organization.
I want to boost our report at least those first
thirty pages. And then I'd also like to plug a
book called Plunder by Attorney Bernadette Atuahna. She wrote this
(40:49):
in regard to the housing prices that we are facing
right now at black people in Detroit and throughout the nation,
the way that it reverberates. So thank you again so much,
Dominqe for having me on and I appreciate you KLBA
or KEBLA.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
All right, well, we appreciate you too. Thanks for all
the work you're doing, Sydney Halloway, and thanks for keeping
reparations rolling even in tough times to think it's so crucial.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Absolutely, thank you.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
News traffic in sports. And then the iconic historian and
activist around ancient kimmit ashra Quazi joins me in studio
on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty
KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. We need a few trillion, and
we focus on that debt every single Friday, second hour
of the show. It's called Freedman Friday. We take a
look at reparations in a comprehensive conversation that is meant
(00:20):
to make sure that we are up on what is
going on, well informed. Part of the solution, part of
the momentum, and there's a lot to keep up with.
Even in these crazy, crazy, trumpy, trumpy times, people are
keeping it moving on the local, state and county level.
(00:42):
I'm being joined today by a social justice advocate and
community organizer. She's known for her involvement in the Black
Lives Matter movement. Born and raised in Detroit, Michigan, she
says she's had a passion for justice since being a
little kid. Organizer, of course, a vocal abolitionist. During the
(01:03):
twenty twenty worked with the Movement for Black Lives and
continues her journey as an activist working now at the
Detroit Justice Center. Welcome to the co chair of the
Detroit Reparations Task Force, Sidney Callaway.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Good morning, Good morning, how are you.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
I'm blessed. It's a reparatory rising as we'd like to
say on Friday, saw you doing.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
I'm doing really well. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Yeah, thanks first for joining us. One of the things
that I'd like to point out is, for me, one
of the signs of momentum is the fact that more
cities have taken up reparations as a commission, a task force,
some kind of initiative, even though we have this federal
thing that's been sitting there since the eighties and has
(01:59):
not made did it, you know, onto the floor for
a vote on a local level, on a state level,
and most remarkably on a city level, reparations is being
taken up. So tell us about what the task force
looks like in Detroit.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah. So, in the City of Detroit, there was a
ballot initiative that went out on our twenty twenty one
vote during election, and I believe we're still one of
the first cities to actually have our city vote on
putting together this task force or commission. We were seated
in twenty twenty three, and we just completed and published
our report October thirty first, twenty twenty five. So that's
(02:39):
available online through the City Detroit at Detroit and my
dot gov. Backslash reparations. It's a body of think. There
were thirteen of us, and it was a lot of work.
So we had our meetings weekly. We held quite a
few public sessions over the course of the last year,
make sure that we were staying grounded and informed from
(03:03):
by our neighbors, because I don't like to call them
constituents or community members. It's like, these are our neighbors
and are our family and friends. But yeah, it was
a lot of really good work, and I don't think
I was anticipating just how emotional this work would be.
I joined as the youngest person on this task force
and was quickly elevated into a leadership position. Nice and
(03:23):
just honor to do the work. It was an intergenerational
journey and an intergenerational lift. So I got to learn
quite a bit, not only about the movement, but about
my city and the experiences of my elders, but then
also quite a bit about myself. So that's pretty much
the formation of the task force here in the City
of de Trade.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
And talk to me a little bit about like who
those other thirteen folks are and what the process was
that you went through beforehanding over this report.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah, so in twenty twenty one, of course, again a
bout initiative was passed. Of these, I believe eighty five
percent of the City of detred voted to have that
commissi informed or our task worce forms. Then we went
through an interview process, so they opened up applications and
you applied to be considered. Then after being considered, you
went through an interview process with our city council. And
(04:13):
then after that city council members, which are I think
nine I believe nine, I know it's nine, voted on
whether or not you would join the task force. Besides myself,
the majority of the task wers were our academicians and
even more so were abolitionists and activists in their own rights.
(04:33):
So quite a few Africana studies professors, quite a few
principles of Afro centered schools here in the city Detroit,
quite a lot of PhDs. So it was amazing space
to be in so much knowledge, and again just because
they're educators, there was a lot of conversations about how
we continue to educate not only our neighbors, but everyone
(04:55):
else interested in moving us forward, about reparations and how
it's more than just a cash payment.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
And certainly from what I can see online, you've got
Detroit all a flame intellectually politically talking about this report.
You know, you delivered it. What do you expect the
next steps to be? And then let's talk about this
some of the issues that you've brought to the forefront here.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Yeah, So we actually just had an election here in
the city and we'll be getting our first black woman
mayor coming up. So we are in the process of, Yes,
we're in the process of ideating around what we want
to see for her first one hundred days to make
sure that reparations and repair for the black community here
is at the forefront of all of her initiatives and
(05:49):
all of her just her goals over her first one
hundred days, and then also how to continue that throughout
the duration of her administration. So we're in conversation right
now amongst ourselves about how we get that coversation going,
not only talking to her as the mayor, Mary Sheffield
as the mayor, but talking to her team and her
department heads and her administrative people. Just to make sure
(06:10):
that you know that we keep this momentum going and
that we are just moving, We're making progress as a
city because that eighty five percent that voted for this
initiative back in twenty twenty one. Those are imaginaries, right,
those are our visionaries, and they're like, they see the
potential of the traiting and they see detraiting new light,
and they want to make sure that this first step
(06:32):
is taken.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
I mean, what surprises me about Well, a couple things
surprised me about what you just said. One the fact
that you're getting your first black woman mayor. Because Detroit
has a huge black population. It's not like La where
we have something like eight percent of us in the population.
When we elect a black mayor, that's amazing, black woman mayor.
(06:55):
I'm just shocked that it took took that long over there.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Yeah, so, I mean we've had a black mayor since
the seventies and then mayor dug in for the past
twelve years with a white man. But this is our
first black woman man. And I think that's the most
surprising part of it all, for sure, the women that
are stepping into these prominent roles across the country. Finally,
but yeah, definitely here and this is the Detroit where
we're about seventy five percent black, and I know people
(07:23):
always like well justin and like Atlanta, Houston, but like, no,
Detroit is the blackest city in America, sitting around four
hundred and fifty two thousand black people. So yeah, that
is a little surprising, but again it's progress that we
have to make, and that just it depends on mentalities
and ideals and just things that we were taught, things
(07:45):
that were learning and unlearning.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
So and then the other part of that is, I mean,
I guess to me, it's not super duper surprising. Well,
eighty five percent is pretty big approval that you know,
we were our country was in a different mindset. Then
sadly we're in full on backlash right now. But still
with such a large black population, it's it's great, but
(08:09):
still not totally shocking. But now I was surprised to
see the amount of well, I don't know why I
was surprised. I guess because I'm thinking, well, Detroit is
a black city, but the amount of pushback in the
press saying, oh, this is too expensive, it's unrealistic, it's
activists agenda blah blah blah. Were you surprised by that?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
No, just because you do well. Sometimes I appreciate the
people who are thinking in real terms. But again, the
world's not going to move forward and change unless we
envision what that changes. Everything that we do was an
idea at one time. Everything that exists was an idea
at one time. And so the people who are like, oh,
we can't do this or this is unaccomplishable, it's like
(08:55):
they said the same thing about slavery, right, so we
were all and that was a legal thing, it was
on the books once upon a time. There was a
whole war about it. So it's not surprising that a
lot of people don't have those imaginations anymore and they
can't really envision a new world. But everybody's like, you
want to be the change, you know, be the change
(09:16):
you want to see, create the change you want to see,
and it's like, this is our opportunity to really do that,
and it's one step at a time, and this report
is the first step in a long journey to come Yes.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Indeed, we're talking with Sydney Callaway, the co chair of
the Reparations Task Force in the City of Detroit, to
find out what's in your report and what you're doing
about it when we come forward. On KBLA talk fifteen
to eighty. Sydney Callaway is my guest. She's the co
chair of the Detroit Reparations task Force. It's almost a
(09:47):
six hundred page document that you guys plopped down in
your city just about a month ago, and it's pretty comprehensive.
Let's talk about some of the things that you have
have put forth in this report. It's not just facts,
it's also recommendations here.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Yes, absolutely, so that ballot initiative that was voted on
back in twenty twenty one explicitly stated that we are
to recommend items around economic development and housing. But once
we got the group together, the task forces like we
would be remissed if we didn't touch on everything that
is umbrellaed under those items housing and economic development. So yes,
(10:30):
our first couple of recommendations focus on those two topics,
but the rest of the report touches on everything that's
impacted or impacts those topics. So there's cultural recommendations, there's
recommendations around education and quality of life, there's recommendations around,
(10:51):
of course, the economic development and housing. But we just
want to make sure there was a whole list. We
took a whole list of approach to our recommendations, and
our number one recommendation is the development of an office
so that we can dedicate all of our time and
focus on repairing our communities.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Right, And it's it also includes cash. I mean, it's
not only policy recommendations.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Correct. And then the way that we approached the cash
recommendation was not to give them a direct number, because
we wanted to allow space for variety, knowing and understanding
that black people in the city and the Detroit experience
is not monolithic, that it's not one size fits all.
So twenty five thousand dollars might be great for one
instance and one individual, but twenty five dollars thousand dollars
(11:36):
for a family may not be It may not deliver
the same type of repair. So we wanted to make
sure that there was space to make sure that everybody
got what they deserved and demanded.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
You guys are pretty specific though. Housing grants up to
forty grand right, Yes, construction of affordable housing units for
African American residents step fifty percent of the area median
income rent control. To me, that doesn't sound like operations.
It sounds like good policy. Doesn't sound like operations, But
(12:09):
I see that you do have that in here, Yes,
and then grants of up to one hundred thousand businesses
displaced by prior urban renewal and development projects. I mean
lots of new lots of rent free space for eligible
black owned businesses within new commercial strip malls for five years.
(12:30):
I guess that's kind of like a starter starter kit
for black businesses. I mean, you have very specific recommendations.
How did you guys come to these?
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Yeah, So, again, going back through our history and understanding
the demographic, we noticed and watched and observed what was
taken from us during a lot of pivotal moments in
this throughout the city, in Trait's history, and we wanted
to make sure that those people were repaired equivalently, equivalently
(13:01):
to the way that they were harmed. Right, So we
had the help of the University of Michigan with our
Harms Report, We had the help of Howard University's Law
School and Columbia University with our impact analysis, and the
data that we extracted from those two documents helped inform us.
And then of course talking to our neighbors, having those
one on one conversations, collecting those oral testimonies also ensured
(13:24):
that we were informed about what would make what would
make our people hole again, And these were specifically talking
about the businesses the Black Bottom area in the Paradise
Valley area, but not excluding the areas that were impacted
by the urban renewal, Negro removal, sending highways through different
areas in the city.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Food Sovereignty and Nutrition Equity Fund to support black owned grocers, cooperatives,
community kitchens and food markets. Where is the funding. Well,
first of all, it's a great idea. I wish we
had that here in la How do you see that working.
Where do these funds for all these programs and proposals
(14:06):
come from.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Well, luckily, the City of Detroit already has quite a
few of these programs on the books and operating. What
we want to do is go in and audit those
programs to ensure that they're impacting our audiences appropriately by
making sure that black people are getting the majority of
the support from these programs. And again, because the city
(14:28):
of Detroit is seventy five percent black, all of this
good policy will majoritly impact or will impact the majority
here in the city, which would be black people who
have suffered at the hands of the city. But yeah, again,
We didn't want to reinvent the wheel, and we didn't
really want to impose on our standing budgets. A lot
of the new programming after we audit existing programming that
(14:50):
will come from philanthrophic arms, that will come from really
going in and being creating more robust community benefits agreements
and holding and holding those developers accountable. Now that the
City of Detroit seems to be enticing for developers, So
it's just standing on business and making sure that we
call to heal those who violate some of those agreements
(15:12):
and contracts with the city. And that's where a lot
of the funding may come from.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Yeah, that's always the excuse. So, I mean, we've heard
it ad nauseum here in California. It's a bad budget year.
We really can't afford this. It's not realistic. You already
said they've you're in and rightly so that you know,
during our Ancestors Day, it was, oh well, slavery can
never be abolished. It's part of you know, it's part
(15:37):
of the fabric of our society. It's part of our
But when when you're getting pushed back specifically around you know,
budget and it's we're in a down year, we're in
a down cycle. How do you overcome that?
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Well, Luckily, again, a lot of the programs that we're
discussing are already but it is for they're already a
part of the city's plans and our incoming mayor. She
was the one who pretty much put this task force together,
put this form this task force, So hopefully we'll have
her support and the support of her administration to continue
working on auditing the programs, making sure they're a bit
(16:18):
more robust and sustained, and that they're impacting the areas
that we've outlined as the most targeted areas. So it
won't necessarily just be based on a good or bad
budget year. It's like these things, the things that we're
already doing, we probably just need to revamp maybe our
marketing or removing some obstacles to access for these programs,
(16:38):
making sure that they are a little bit easier for
people to apply for, and then maybe shrinking hiring more
people to strength like the waiting list for a couple
of these programs. So those are the types of things
that we're trying to get done hopefully during this first
this first four years, this first term for Mayor Mary
Sheffield and then perhaps identifying some gaps to fill with
(17:02):
new programming.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Yeah, the one of your Detroit papers here, I'm trying
to find it is quoting a member of the task
force saying that he doesn't support the recommendations of the
task force, saying that it is And then it became
(17:23):
too long. It became an intellectual exercise, was there?
Speaker 2 (17:28):
You know? Is there?
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Are we talking about healthy sort of debate. It just
surprised me that someone would go to the press after
working on this process for years and undermine the process itself.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Yeah, so if you do a little bit more digging
on that particular member, you'll just see a bit of
a pattern there. And like I said, there, the table
was full of academicians and our PhDs, because these are
the people who are well versed in research and a
lot of data quantifying and qualifying. So a lot of
(18:03):
ideas still do need a lot of backwork in order
to come to fruition. So it's great to just have
an idea to tell people on, but you still have
to engineer how these things will work. And that's what
we were doing around the table. We were engineering and
designing and trying to come up with ways to make
these items tangible versus just selling people on the dream
(18:26):
of possibilities and programs. So I think that's where a
lot of that conversation and where those ideas and opinions
may have come from, because we did spend quite a
few hours around the table talking about where the funding
would come from, who were the targets for those philanthropic donations,
what the conversations would be like with our city leaders
and with those with the actual power to make these
(18:48):
decisions and changes, versus garnering just the support of our
neighbors and a couple of business people. So of course
in every group, there's going to be a little bit
of strife, all right, no doubt. But we've always appreciated
that good scrutiny and that good criticism because, if anything,
it just encouraged us to get a little bit more
(19:08):
innovative and creative.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
I mean, really, part of the reason I bring it
up is because one of the challenges for the reparations movement,
which you know, I mean, it's a debt that's owed
to us, So it shouldn't matter. You got to pay
your debts, no matter what your opinion is about them,
but public opinion has been mixed, and here in California
people have supported reparations except when it came with a
(19:32):
check in terms of public opinion. How is public opinion
playing a role there is you know, are you worried
about are you feeling the impact of this new administration
and the sort of anti DEI energy policy that's going around,
or is it pretty strongly supported in your opinion.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Yeah, so we absolutely have strong support here in the city.
I think our biggest debate that happened publicly with about
eligibility and more so who would be eligible for reparations
in the city Detroit, not necessarily where the money would
come from or what that reparation looks like, because we're
all pretty much on the same page about needing holistic repair.
(20:18):
But yeah, we have support here in the city, and
I think it's just coming down to how we start
to implement things and help making sure people understand that
there is no such thing as repairing generations of harm,
which is what we experience here in the city as
black people and throughout the nation. You cannot repair hundreds
of years of harm and violation within two years or
(20:44):
three years. And with a report, right, it's going to
take a lot of time to build out these programs,
to see them to fruition, and to track the progress
to measure the impact that it's having.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Yeah, and when we come forward after news, traffic and sports,
right here, I do want to dive into how you
came to your process, how you came to your conclusion
about who is eligible and who is not. It's an
interesting formula that you have, and of course that's always
going to be one of the most contentious pieces. I
think California did a good job on it, but now
(21:16):
our governor is kicking the can down the road, trying
to stall the implementation of actual reparations by doing yet
another study to decide who is eligible. So I want
to unpack, unbox your process and where you landed on that.
In Detroit, Detroit Reparations Task Force co chair Sydney Calloway
(21:38):
is my guest, and you're listening to Freedman Friday on
KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. You belong here. We're glad that
you are here. It's a Freedman Friday and we're talking
with Sidney Callaway. She's the co chair of the Detroit
Reparations Task Force. So talk to me about your process
and where you landed with who is eligible, because I
(22:01):
noticed that your definition seems to be broader than what
California landed on. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Absolutely, So we only have a few requirements for eligibility,
but to be black, of course, because we didn't want
to exclude anybody, because again, race is a visual thing
and they're not going to exclude you from the harms.
They're going to take one look at you and treat
you how they see you. And then we wanted you
to be old enough to be able to really use
(22:32):
the funds and be able to participate in the programs
to make sure that these items were beneficial for your
lifestyle and for you. And then we wanted you to
live in the city Detroit because I was joking with
the task for saying that I am young enough to
become a reparations nomad. If me be so three to
five years, I can move to any town that's awesome
reparations to black people, live there for the extent of
(22:54):
time required to qualify, qualify, get my money, and then
move on to the next pace. So we were like,
we wanted just to sustainable, we wanted to be feasible,
and we wanted it to be inclusive because again, we
didn't want to perpetuate any further harm on our community members.
And even though some people may have chosen to come here,
they didn't choose to be violated, they didn't choose to
(23:17):
be to be harmed. So we didn't want to exclude anybody,
and we also wanted to ensure that we heard everybody's
story because we don't know, we don't know everything about
every persone.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
So the eligibility means, I mean, from what I'm reading,
you have to be have lived in Detroit twenty years,
You got to be black, You have to be the
descendant of enslaved, of harmed people not enslaved, right, could
be harmed by Jim Crow, could be harmed by enslavement.
(23:51):
But you don't have to be Black American. You guys
have opened it up to anybody who's been in the
in Detroit twenty years who is black, even if they're
Caribbean or African, And that here in California was one
of the big controversial pieces. Was that a sticking point
(24:14):
for you guys?
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Yes, So that was one of the longest conversations that
we had around the table and with our neighbors during
our public session, and the reason why we wanted to
keep it so open is because again, they may have
chosen to come here. They their families may have chosen
to come here, but they did not choose to be
discriminated against, or harmed or violated in any way any
(24:37):
illegal actions taken against them. They did not choose for
that to be a victim of those instances. So we
did not want to exclude them and then continue the harm.
We didn't want to perpetuate that harm. So we wanted
to make sure that everybody was covered. And again, it's
not a monolis. We are not all going through the
exacting thing. All of our experiences are not the same.
(24:58):
So we wanted to leave space for that, and we
wanted to make sure that there was capacity to again
make everyone whole. But it doesn't make people as possible.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
So is it descendant of it? Because what I'm reading
here it says descendant of an African enslaved in the
US or the diaspora. But does it mean that you'd
have to be the descendant of someone who was enslaved
or anyone in the diaspora who came and came to Detroit.
Was there twenty years and had experienced arms of Jim Crow,
would they also be eligible.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Well, it's as the descendant of an enslaved and you
come here more than likely you have been a victimized
or a victim of Jim Crow or apartheid or whatever
you'd like to call it these days. But yes, you
did have to be a descendant of an enslaved. But
we did not exclude the Caribbean because they have a
slave population. We did not want to exclude, you know,
any of the islands or any of the areas where
(25:50):
we knew the slave trade touched, because again, escaping those
areas and coming here during whatever's period of time, you
were still going to be impacted by Jim Crow or
discrimination or even police brutality. We did touch on that
quite a bit, and that's a bit of a new
contemporary lens that we wanted to make sure that we
(26:10):
were visualizing this harm through because when people think of reparations,
they only think of slavery, and they might think Jim Crow.
But even to this day, we have a lot of
families who are getting settlements from police forces using after
suffering police brutality, and we need to make them whole
as well.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Yeah, I may have you know, I may have misunderstood too,
because it sounds like you do have to be the
descendant of an enslaved person and be able to somehow
verify that, even though you might be from somewhere else.
So if you just came from Africa or anywhere in
(26:47):
the world in the Caribbean and you can't make that
direct connection to an enslaved person, then you wouldn't be eligible, correct.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
But this is what the development of that office is for,
is to offer genealogical research services and to make those connections.
Because it's very, very unlikely that any black person that's
in America right now was not related to an enslaved
person at one time or another, So we definitely want
to leave that open. And then again, not every program
(27:19):
is for everybody. So even if you aren't luckily related
to anybody that was once enslaved, you might not require
you might not qualify for some of the programs. But
there may be another way we can get resources to
you and make you whole in some other way.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
But is that reparations? I mean, is it? Well, you know,
I guess that's the that's the argument that I hear
is like, is that reparations. I feel like whether California
Task Force agreed on a lineage model, but they also
you know, obviously, if you some programs that help all
black people are going to help all black people, whether
(27:57):
they are descendants of enslaved persons or not. But part
of the conversation is not just about people's opinions of
who deserves repair, but also has to do with having
a viable legal standard that would hold up to challenges.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Correct. Correct, So we definitely had the advice with quite
a few lawyers in this movement who are extremely instrumental
to the way that we formed a lot of these
recommendations and the way we'll go forward crafting our policy
and legislation. But again, we did want to leave it
as broad and as open as possible, to not exclude
anybody because you again, we never know what somebody's experience was,
(28:38):
and if it was at the hands of the City
of Detroit, we do want to hold the city accountable.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
You present this report to the city council in January?
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Yes, we're working on a solid date right now.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
So what does that look like? What what do you
hope happens? And you know, what are the steps like.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Yeah, so we'll be taking about fifteen minutes out of
a formal session for our City Council presentation in front
of all nine members, hopefully if everyone's in attendance, and
we just want to touch on our major points, making
sure that we demonstrate the satisfaction of the resolution and
ballot initiative or a ballot question, and then just opening
the floor up for conversation and questions and answers, because
(29:23):
I know quite a few of them were unable to
make our public sessions over the years or only made
one or two, but we want to open up the
gateways for dialogue to having especially with us feeding two
new city council people, we wanted to bring them up
to speed with what our report was and what our
work was and why it's important that we keep it going,
keep this momentum going.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
And once you do the presentation to the city Council,
are they expected to come up with policy plans or
proposals as a follow up to that or you know,
how do we go from presentation to lamentation? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (30:02):
So our number one recommendation is the Reparations Administrative Administrative Office,
So hopefully that will be a small team of three
to five people that have, you know, expertise in different areas,
and they can come together look over our recommendations, look
at the programs that the city is already offering and
kind of match them in spaces to identify some gaps
(30:24):
to fill. So then that way we aren't you burdened
with creating entirely new programs and policies, but going through
our turner to see what the powers already that already
lie with the city council and what they can implement,
and working within those parameters to make sure we're putting
out something that's effective within the next five years.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
All Right, we're talking reparation. Sydney Callaway is with us.
She's from Detroit, out of Detroit, Michigan, where they have
just presented a little over a month ago, just presented
a comprehensive reparations report, almost six hundred pages. And that
report now will it's heading to the city council. So
reparations in motion, and yet another American city will look
(31:08):
a little deeper at what's inside when we come forward
on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. Indeed, it's a six hundred
page report. We're not going to unpack the whole thing
right now, right in real time on a Freedman Friday.
But we're talking with Sydney Galloway, co chair of the
Reparations Task Force for the City of Detroit, Michigan, and
(31:30):
give us some you know, top levels, some highlights for you,
things that you're most proud of or we're most surprised
by our most hard hitting coming out of this six
hundred page report.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Yeah. So again, being the youngest person on this Taskbard,
I think it was just the amount of history that
was here that I was just un pritty to. So
during our time working with High Law School and Columbia University,
we put together a three day reparations tour with the
(32:05):
city of Detroit's official historian, Baba Jamon Jordan, And what
he did was take us on a tour of the
city Detroit, pointing out specific spots of harm that are
still standing today. So I had an opportunity to go
touch the Birdwood wall that was erected during the forties
before before a developer put up this housing that he
(32:29):
was requesting FAHA funding for, and that was one of
the stipulations to physically separate this black neighborhood that was
already standing from this public housing that was going up.
In order to get that public funding, they had to
erect a wall that stands about six feet talls about
a foot fit and seeing things like that, Or going
(32:49):
and visiting the home of Osteen Suite, who literally was
mobbed by white people when he moved in and he
ended up killing two people, but got off because he
was protecting his home and protecting his family. Or going
to the Sojournal Truth Home, which is a project that
was erected during the Great Migration, where again white people
were physically blocking Black people from accessing these homes that
(33:14):
were built and constructed for them in this area of
the city trade So being able to see these things
in real time, being able to steel the energy that
still emanates from these spots of harm for black people,
and even hearing the stories from the elders around the
table that I had the opportunity to work with or
even my parents during the sixty seven uprising that happened
(33:37):
that pretty much kicked off and inspired the Kerner Commission
report to be produced. It was extremely overwhelming hearing the
stories of how it continues to impact my neighbors in
our communities. Again is just baffling. But then the internal
work and the internal evolution that I underwent as somebody
(33:59):
who was raised in the upper middle class in the
North Roastille Park area of the city on the west side,
I had the opportunity to attend so many different schools
and the privilege to just be exposed to so many
things in my city and outside of my city in
the Metro Detroit area. I had to deal with my
own elitism, in my own privilege in order to really
(34:20):
do this work and to communicate and talk to my
family and friends and other disproportionately divested areas throughout the city.
So it was a lot, And I don't know if
people really understand that reparations work isn't just about the money,
It isn't just about the history. But it's emotionally taxing
(34:40):
to hear the stories of humans who are sitting in
front of you asking to be made whole, and just
the opportunity to participate as school blown citizens and be
recognized their humanity and to be restored their dignity. So
it's quite a bit, and it's definitely more than just money.
It's just recognizing the humanity and restoring humanity. And society.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Yeah, tell folks how they can get a piece of
a little view of what you're doing. You know, I
think the reparations report is available to the public, right.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Yes, Detroit MI dot gov backslash reparations.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Detroit, m I from Michigan DETROITMI dot gov backslash reparations. Yes,
all right, what do you think how can we help? Like,
how can we support the work that you're doing? I
know that from my view, each time another city comes online,
(35:42):
each time another task force comes online, it helps normalize,
it helps create momentum. But what would you like to
see us do?
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Yeah? I invite everybody to visit First Repair dot org online.
That is the website for the First Repair Organization out
of Evanston, Illinois, headed by Robin Ruth Simmons. Evanson was
one of the first cities to actually produce reparations for
their constituents, and I got to witness about twenty people
(36:14):
received certificates of reparations over the weekend while I was
in Evanston for their fifth annual National Reparation Symposium. So
definitely check out First Repair online. There are quite a
bit of resources and quite a bit of data there,
and I believe we just need to really relearn a
lot of the jardon that is attached to the reparations conversation,
(36:37):
understanding that this is repair, that we were harmed, that
we were violated, that a lot of these acts that
were committed against us were illegal. So we have to
criminalize this conversation and really keep this momentum going. We
cannot shy away from using the words black and white.
We don't need to whisper those words in the company
of others anymore because we've been uncomfortable since we set
(36:59):
foot on this land. So this is an opportunity for
us to grow through that uncomfortability and make progress in
what this nation could truly and honestly be. So definitely
check out First Reparation dot org, read the reports that
are available there, find some data that's available there, and
there are quite a few books that we included in
(37:19):
our appendices that not only speaks to the history of
the city of Detroit, but it speaks to the current
climate for black people now. So it's a lot of research,
it's a lot of reading, but just making this a
kitchen table conversation. And then again, social media has been
the greatest tool for marketing anything as of right now.
(37:41):
So applying pressure for every city that is looking to
get these commissions started that has gotten them started but
have run into obstacles. We have to come together as
a nation behind these small municipal movements because these pilot
cities are what informs state and federal action.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Tell me what you know. We only got a couple
of minutes here, Sydney Calloway, But tell me what you
got out of the Evanston gathering.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Yes, So this is my third year attending the National
Reparation Symposium in Evanston, Illinois, and this is one of
my favorite conferences. We are bringing well, what they do
is they bring together people and experts throughout the reparations
moving movement globally. Right. So we're talking about doctor Ron
(38:30):
Daniels with in Kober. We're talking about cam Howard with
the ooh, I think it's the I think he's with Nark.
I might be mistaken, But we're talking about having candid
conversations and organic moments with some of these people who
have been doing this since the seventies and eighties. So
the intergenerational knowledge exchange and wisdom exchange and just the
(38:51):
tips of the trade. We're bringing in lawyers again from
Columbia University and from Howard Law School, and we're bringing
in our elected offishal So it's always a fantastic conference
to attend. And again I recommend everybody go at least
once because even though you may not be working on
reparations in an official capacity, for your own edification and
for your own knowledge, this is an opportunity to really
(39:15):
fine tune your conversation that you may have with a
neighbor that you might want to encourage or persuade to
support this movement, or just when you take this home
to your neighborhoods and your municipalities who you can talk
to to move some of these ideas forward. So it's
only about three hundred four hundred people, so that's a
perfect size for a conference. You can get coffee right
(39:36):
before a session starts. You're seeing the same faces over
and over, and it develops. You get to develop rapport
and familiarity with some of the people throughout the nation
who are working on this. So that was Evanson. And
then also they have a brick First Repair has a
brick and mortar resource center there where they hold the
books that are inspiring and motivating us, informing us on
(39:57):
this work. And then they're holding the public lotions from
these reparations task Force and commissions throughout the nation, throughout
the world, so you can always go there to refer
to things, because again, these are items that have things
that have happened throughout the nation and a million and
a half different Black communities, so none of it is new.
We'll just have to get creative about how we repair
each community.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
Yeah, that's well said. You got sixty seconds here, Sidney Calloway.
I grant them to use them value will sure.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Again, I just definitely want to thank you for having
me on. I want to thank all your listeners for
tuning in and paying attention to a topic like this.
But I definitely want to boost the First Repair Organization.
I want to boost our report at least those first
thirty pages. And then I'd also like to plug a
book called Plunder by Attorney Bernadette Atuahna. She wrote this
(40:49):
in regard to the housing prices that we are facing
right now at black people in Detroit and throughout the nation,
the way that it reverberates. So thank you again so much,
Dominqe for having me on and I appreciate you KLBA
or KEBLA.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
All right, well, we appreciate you too. Thanks for all
the work you're doing, Sydney Halloway, and thanks for keeping
reparations rolling even in tough times to think it's so crucial.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Absolutely, thank you.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
News traffic in sports. And then the iconic historian and
activist around ancient kimmit ashra Quazi joins me in studio
on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Burden
The Burden is a documentary series that takes listeners into the hidden places where justice is done (and undone). It dives deep into the lives of heroes and villains. And it focuses a spotlight on those who triumph even when the odds are against them. Season 5 - The Burden: Death & Deceit in Alliance On April Fools Day 1999, 26-year-old Yvonne Layne was found murdered in her Alliance, Ohio home. David Thorne, her ex-boyfriend and father of one of her children, was instantly a suspect. Another young man admitted to the murder, and David breathed a sigh of relief, until the confessed murderer fingered David; “He paid me to do it.” David was sentenced to life without parole. Two decades later, Pulitzer winner and podcast host, Maggie Freleng (Bone Valley Season 3: Graves County, Wrongful Conviction, Suave) launched a “live” investigation into David's conviction alongside Jason Baldwin (himself wrongfully convicted as a member of the West Memphis Three). Maggie had come to believe that the entire investigation of David was botched by the tiny local police department, or worse, covered up the real killer. Was Maggie correct? Was David’s claim of innocence credible? In Death and Deceit in Alliance, Maggie recounts the case that launched her career, and ultimately, “broke” her.” The results will shock the listener and reduce Maggie to tears and self-doubt. This is not your typical wrongful conviction story. In fact, it turns the genre on its head. It asks the question: What if our champions are foolish? Season 4 - The Burden: Get the Money and Run “Trying to murder my father, this was the thing that put me on the path.” That’s Joe Loya and that path was bank robbery. Bank, bank, bank, bank, bank. In season 4 of The Burden: Get the Money and Run, we hear from Joe who was once the most prolific bank robber in Southern California, and beyond. He used disguises, body doubles, proxies. He leaped over counters, grabbed the money and ran. Even as the FBI was closing in. It was a showdown between a daring bank robber, and a patient FBI agent. Joe was no ordinary bank robber. He was bright, articulate, charismatic, and driven by a dark rage that he summoned up at will. In seven episodes, Joe tells all: the what, the how… and the why. Including why he tried to murder his father. Season 3 - The Burden: Avenger Miriam Lewin is one of Argentina’s leading journalists today. At 19 years old, she was kidnapped off the streets of Buenos Aires for her political activism and thrown into a concentration camp. Thousands of her fellow inmates were executed, tossed alive from a cargo plane into the ocean. Miriam, along with a handful of others, will survive the camp. Then as a journalist, she will wage a decades long campaign to bring her tormentors to justice. Avenger is about one woman’s triumphant battle against unbelievable odds to survive torture, claim justice for the crimes done against her and others like her, and change the future of her country. Season 2 - The Burden: Empire on Blood Empire on Blood is set in the Bronx, NY, in the early 90s, when two young drug dealers ruled an intersection known as “The Corner on Blood.” The boss, Calvin Buari, lived large. He and a protege swore they would build an empire on blood. Then the relationship frayed and the protege accused Calvin of a double homicide which he claimed he didn’t do. But did he? Award-winning journalist Steve Fishman spent seven years to answer that question. This is the story of one man’s last chance to overturn his life sentence. He may prevail, but someone’s gotta pay. The Burden: Empire on Blood is the director’s cut of the true crime classic which reached #1 on the charts when it was first released half a dozen years ago. Season 1 - The Burden In the 1990s, Detective Louis N. Scarcella was legendary. In a city overrun by violent crime, he cracked the toughest cases and put away the worst criminals. “The Hulk” was his nickname. Then the story changed. Scarcella ran into a group of convicted murderers who all say they are innocent. They turned themselves into jailhouse-lawyers and in prison founded a lway firm. When they realized Scarcella helped put many of them away, they set their sights on taking him down. And with the help of a NY Times reporter they have a chance. For years, Scarcella insisted he did nothing wrong. But that’s all he’d say. Until we tracked Scarcella to a sauna in a Russian bathhouse, where he started to talk..and talk and talk. “The guilty have gone free,” he whispered. And then agreed to take us into the belly of the beast. Welcome to The Burden.