August 25, 2025 • 40 mins
Dr. D’Artagnan Scorza is the inaugural Executive Director of Racial Equity for Los Angeles County. He leads the anti-racism, diversity and inclusion initiative. Prior to joining the county, he was founder and Executive Director of the Social Justice Learning Institute. Dr. Scorza is a graduate of Morningside High School and a US Navy Iraq-War Veteran. He has Ph.D. in Education from UCLA, a B.S. in Liberal Studies from National University and a B.A. in the Study of Religion from UCLA. on this podcast he shares the plans by LA County regarding reparations following a motion by Supervisor Holly Mitchell to look into reparations on a county level.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Maybe LA Talk fifteen eighty. It's become our reparations theme
song at l O Black I need a Dalla or
several trillion. We are pleased to be welcoming in for
this comprehensive reparations conversation. It's a series that's been going
on almost two years. We call it Friedman Friday, and
today we're welcoming in the inaugural Executive Director of Racial
(00:21):
Equity for LA County. He leads the Anti Racism, Diversity
and Inclusion Initiative rd which is aimed at improving life
outcomes for all LA County residents. Doctor d'Artagnan scores so welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Thank you so much for having me today.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Yeah, you were before working with the county. You were
one of the founders of the Social Justice Learning Institute
and worked in Englewood Schools, a whole bunch of different
different jobs that all of them, your focus has been
about social justice.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
That's right. The founder actually, the Social Justice Are Institute
came out of my dissertation and my research at Morningside
High School working with young black men. To corner side
is where I'm from. This is I'm a monarch, monarch
pride here from Englewood, and I'll tell you, like you
know it was. It was a great opportunity to really
(01:18):
understand how to help young men who were formerly incarcerated
and on probation exit those carcrow systems and make it
to college. So we were able to get them to
graduate at over ninety five percent and get them into
college and gainfully employed. And that work continues to today.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
You know, right now, diversity inclusion is practically practically illegal.
I mean, it's not illegal, but since the President is
making all of these executive orders and punishing companies and
institutions that do anything that they label as diversity and inclusion,
(02:00):
it's almost worth functioning as if it's illegal.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
You know, first of all, diversity, equity, and inclusion is
not illegal, so well, you know, I know, I know
that's how it has been framed in certain places, but
it's not right. I mean, I think when you think
about diversity anything about what the opposite of diversity is
or inclusion, and what the opposite of inclusion is, which
(02:23):
is exclusion, you can only imagine how problematic that is. Yeah,
you know.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeah. At the same time, we always talk about reparations
here and a lot of the conversation has to do
with where we don't want to We are not affirmative action,
we are not DEI. We're talking about something totally different,
which is a debt and repair of harm. So how
does that, how does that fit within your your understanding
(02:53):
of your work?
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Well, you know, it's interesting. So one of the things
I can say is that, like as the executive director
of the Arty Initiative, I serve at the pleasure of
our Chief Executive Office and our Board of Supervisors. And
what I'm really focused on is what's happening here locally. Right.
I can't control what's happening at the federal level, and
I can't you know, you know, manage what's happening coming
(03:18):
out of this administration. But my focus has really been
centered on making sure that communities here in La County
are being served and that their needs are being met
through these various poly crises. Because it's not just the
antidi work or anti DiiA first coming out of the
federal administration, but it's also you know, the fires, right
(03:40):
that have happened, recovery from the pandemic, the various sort
of poly crises we've been experiencing, And so what We're
really focused on here locally, and ARTY is making sure
that our board making sure that our supervisors have the
information and the tools they need to make effective decisions
for our residents.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Yeah. Well, I mean that's all we can ask. And
there's always conversation about where we should be focused on
when we talk about reparations. Is it cities, as it counties,
is it states? Is it federal? Right now nationally, it's
happening on all of those levels. Happening meaning the activism
the policy pushes, even you know, HR forty, even though
(04:25):
it probably won't go anywhere, it was introduced again, So
what is happening at the county level here in Los Angeles?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
So I'm really excited to talk about that. I think locally,
you know, our supervisors adopted unanimously adopted a motion directing
the ARTY team and the Aaraty Initiative to explore what
actions the county can take to provide reparations to our residents.
So the motion itself calls for us to build up
(04:55):
on the efforts of the State Reparations Task Force, and
it also asks us to put forward a set of
policy recommendations along with the research to examine the many
incidents of harm that you know, people who are formally
who are descendants of people who are formally enslaved, experience
across all sectors in our society. So the board, you know,
(05:20):
directed my team to really examine and understand what we
could do here locally. So right now what we're doing
is we're documenting the local harms. Before we can get
to the place where we talk about what can be repaired,
we have to understand what we are repairing. The state
reparation task for us is a really good job laying
out of framework, but it didn't really articulate in any
(05:42):
significant detail what happened at the local level. So we've
been finding, you know, hundreds of incidents. So for example,
there was an under sheriff, you know, just before the
Civil War who put together a posse to uphold enslavement.
And you know the state of California was a free
state and yet there was still slavery that was documented
(06:03):
here in La County, and a whole host of other
issues like that. So we've identified over thirty incidents throughout
the areas throughout the county where either the KKK or
a law enforcement supported racial terror. We have identified where
there are you know, many incidents of harm that have
(06:26):
taken place in this past century alone, so that work
is really important. I think that's the first step. The
second step is for us to develop a framework for
a truth, racial healing and transformation sort of a group
to help us think about what the board is called for,
which is an official apology to African Americans. And so
(06:48):
you know, with this framework, we'll present that to the board. Ultimately,
my job is to inform the board so they can
make decisions. But we'll present it to the board, giving
them advice that include the lived experience or historical information
that people that we've been able to find, and provide
that framework to the board so that they can review it.
(07:09):
And I think that framework will enable the board to
take whatever actions they want to take or steps they
may want to take or may not want to take
to inform this work.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
All right, we're talking with doctor d'Artagnan scores. Ah, we're
talking reparations because it's a Freedman Friday on KVLA Talk
fifteen eighty aug Executive Director of Racial Equity for La County.
La County is huge, bigger than many states in terms
of population. Definitely in terms of budget, Doctor d'Artagnan scorzas
here on a Friedman Friday. And so you just laid
(07:39):
out the fact that there was a motion that passed
unanimously that was Supervisor Holly Mitchell's motion, if I'm not
mistaken to basically look at what can the County of
La do about reparation? And you've laid out that you're
in the phase of seeing local harms. So is it
(08:00):
sounds like it's getting more specifics because the California Task
Force did kind of do a comprehensive overlook of harms,
but you're getting specific to the county. Is that what
we're doing right now? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
I think that's right, and you know, thank you know,
I'm grateful for Supervisor Metroll's leadership because I think she
really wanted to make sure that that we took this
issue on head first, right, and we are following the
direction from the state. So I think it's important to
note that our, you know, efforts with the state are
(08:33):
largely aligned, and that we really want to make sure
that we are aligned, you know, supporting what they're doing
and following their direction. But at the local level, you know,
we had to spend time understanding the relationship between these
harms and their impacts upon descendants of shadow slavery, specifically
(08:56):
African Americans, and I think that's important to note. I
think the other thing that is important is we have
to spend time. You know, Reparations is not just about
the check. I think a lot of people talk about that.
We know, some people argue it is right.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
I think the main argument is just that it's we
don't exclude the check.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
I think that's right.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
It's not just the check. But a lot of times
when people say that, they're saying it to minimize cash payments,
and most people don't want to hear that.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
No, I agree, And I think the thing though, I
think about when I consider reparations is that it's really
about the fact that so many of us have been
harmed in our communities for generations, and when we ask
for those harms to be redressed or to be addressed,
we're typically denied, right, We're denied redress. And when I
(09:49):
you know, I'm not saying it's not just about the
check to say we should exclude cash payments. I'm saying
that because it's also about not replicating those harms. Like
you can't can't just provide conversation and then turn around
and use state violence against people again, Right, You can't
just address housing crises and get people into housing and
(10:14):
then turn around and pass laws that make it illegal
for them to marry who they love, for example. The law,
the policy, the practices have to follow so that we
don't repeat history. And so I think the important piece
here is to make sure that we understand not only
(10:36):
what the legal framework is that we're going to use
to do the work that we need to do and
present those options to the board, but that we also
recognize how important it is for us to not perpetuate
the harms that have been caused in the past.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
So, now you said you're in that information gathering phase
for the county. I'm sure there's some overlap with the
city reparations commissioned. The City of La, of course is
much smaller than the County of LA, but it's in
the County of LA and they just, through the LA
Civil Rights Department, turned in a summary sort of of
(11:12):
their reparations work. Is that factoring in and if so,
how you know?
Speaker 2 (11:16):
I have great admiration for the work of Caprimatics and
her team and what they did. I think that the
City of La has set a model for how to
think about and bring people together in community, both to
produce their report, which I've read it's incredible, but to
also I think, lay a framework for actions the city
(11:36):
can take. Now, you said the county is very large,
and you're right, we have more than eighty eight cities.
We're larger than thirty eight states. You know, forty seven
plus billion dollar budget. It's a huge organization and so
for us, we can certainly look at what the City
of La has done, but we have a lot of
unincorporated residents in areas. We have you know, over forty
(11:59):
plus you know, law enforcement agencies that we're exploring. So
it's a huge undertaking. And while we can look at
the city's example, I think we're thinking about this at
a regional level, and that'll enable us to understand how,
you know, places like Glendale which was a sundown town,
or the end Low Valley which were Sundowntown's as well
(12:20):
affected residents, or Manhattan Beach right, which you know, which
is where Bruce's Beach took place. Right. It gives us
sort of a regional perspective, and so we can drop
upon what the City of La done did, but we
have to really look broader for the entire area.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yeah. Part of the reason I mentioned it is because
you were talking about some of the information that came
out regarding the role of law enforcement and the role
of the clan. And one of the things that was
most startling for me in the LA report was how
popular the KKK was and probably still is in southern California,
(12:56):
with so many branches in this immediate area.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Yeah. And one of those branches was in Inglewood, right,
which is where I'm from. And I remember when I
was writing my dissertation at UCLA, I did a little
bit of history on schools in Inglewood and found that
there were, you know, a lot of acts of violence
in that community that occurred. And I think that, you know,
(13:22):
we have to recognize the role that racial terror has
played in our communities. And I'm grateful that the task
force in the City of La did that work, right,
Manlin and all these incredible folks who I've known for
years that have looked at the role that the KKK played,
including you know, somebody serving as a mayor. You had
(13:43):
district attorneys and police officers, all these folk were embedded
in our institutions. So when we think about their role
in sort of upholding laws unfairly unjustly harming our communities,
we have a lot. We have a very strong case
for why we need to do this work.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Yeah, no doubt. Now, what what does your timeline look
like for because I know, for example, with the city effort,
they've completed their executive summary, then it goes to the
City Council. They have to come up with their full report.
Then it goes to the City council, and city council
has to act or not act. Right, you guys are
(14:24):
still in the information gathering phase at this point.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
We are. And you know, one of the things that
I've been really clear about, and I've communicated both with
my staff and our team as well as our internal
external stakeholders, is that we really want to take the
time to get this right. This is not something we
can rush. I think, you know, we see what's happened
with other reparations around the issues and efforts around the
country with Evanston and Tulsa, and so you know, given
(14:52):
that the county is working through a lot of challenging issues,
we you know, recently went through the fires here to
DTAM paths and palisades. You know, we are taking the
time we need to look at this issue with detail
and with the sensitivity it deserves. The other thing I
(15:14):
think to note is that you know, that doesn't preclude
us from being responsive as the social safety nets. So
the county is still providing services. The county is still
meeting the needs of our residents. The county is still
carrying out efforts to provide services, and it's still doing
(15:34):
what's right by our residence on a day to day basis.
So I think you have in the county a great partner.
We also have, you know, you have our The board
is committed to justicekaren opportunities. You know Judge Sunghai Armstead
is leading that work and making sure that we address
cursoral issues in the county. Right So there are efforts
that are underway, and while those efforts are underway, we
(15:57):
are taking the time to explore how they can be
aligned with what we're trying to do as a relate
to reparations.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Understood, it's a huge county. You don't wanna, you don't
want to, you know, be sloppy. I hear a lot
of conversation though, why do we need another study? Why
do we you know, we could just take the California study.
Some folks apply that to local stuff here. Some are
applying it to HR forty and saying, you know, extrapolate,
we know what happened. Isn't it time for action? In fact,
(16:28):
that was the logic that Governor Wes Moore used when
he decided to veto that reparations in Maryland, a reparations bill,
because he said it's time for action, no more studies.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Yeah, you know, and I admire Governor Moore. I think
he's done a lot to help serve as a leader
for many folk across the country in this area. But
the issue I realize, you know, is that this is
really complex work. I wouldn't say that we need another study.
We we have to establish the legal basis upon which
we're going to do the repair. And because it's a
(17:05):
complex issue, what we're seeing and have seen is that
while there are a lot of jurisdictions that are trying
to advance this work, unfortunately a lot of them are
walking them back too. Right. So, because folks have sort
of they're like, yeah, we're going to get to it,
We're going to make it happen, and I admire them
making those commitments, and I think our county has made
a commitment to explore it as well. I don't want
that to happen here in La County, where you know,
(17:26):
we rush out, we get in front of ourselves, and
we don't take the time we need to actually build
the foundation upon which we're going to do this work.
I think you had Assembly Member Brian in here a
few weeks ago, and he talked about doing that work
with AB seven right, trying to establish the legal basis
upon which the University of California can provide or state
(17:48):
universities can provide preferential admissions to descendants of shadow slavery.
It takes time because we have laws that are designed
to prevent us from doing this very work. And so
you can't just assume that we're going to roll out
programs and services tomorrow when we have barriers to doing
all of that. And there are there are you know, uh,
(18:11):
systems that are in place to prevent it from happening.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yeah. And aside from the systems which are long standing,
many of them long standing, we also have a current
environment in the country, combined with the fiscal emergency of
all these budget challenges, which are made worse by the fires,
which seems very hostile to this kind of work. But
(18:38):
the county is moving forward anyway.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Yeah, that's a great question. Yeah, our board has been
very clear about their values, their commitment to equity. I
think it's more about understanding where the need is at.
So you know, they have given me direction to continue
to do the work that we're doing and to help
rest the need. You know, racial equity is ultimately about
(19:02):
getting to a place where race is no longer a
predictor or a factor in whether or not you receive
the benefits of burdens in society. And what our board
has been very clear about is that we want to
make sure that we're addressing people's needs. And government does
this already, right, Like we have homeless programs, homeless services programs,
we have food vouchers. Although we know that this administration
(19:25):
has been working to you know, claw a lot of
that stuff back, we provide for needs. So I think
our board is really clear about that, and there's nothing
illegal about doing that. And in fact, government has a
responsibility to prevent discrimination, right to redress harm, to repair challenges,
and to provide remedies for people who are experiencing those harms.
And so if we maintain that commitment, this work that
(19:48):
we're doing is very consistent with the environment that we're
in right now. And I think if you understand what
the federal administration is trying to do, you know, the
way they have framed their consideration of DEI is synonymous
with the legal preferences and things that we've already gotten
rid of here in the state of California through Proposition
(20:08):
two on nine. And while you know Proposition two on
nine I think has caused a lot of harm to
focun our communities, it also it also sort of was
a precursor to what we're experiencing now.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
I may have prepared us for this moment. We've got news, traffic,
and sports, and then we'll have more reparations with doctor
d'Artagnan Scorza on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty Welcome back to
your home for Friedman Friday. We are dedicated to having
a comprehensive reparations conversation each and every week, and if
you've missed them, they're all available on YouTube YouTube dot com.
(20:42):
KBLA fifteen eighty or wherever you get your podcasts for free.
Some of it is about making sure we know what's happening,
and some of it is about being part of the momentum,
which incredibly, I think it's pretty incredible continues in this
current environment. In fact, doctor d'Artagnan Scorzo's with us. He's
(21:04):
the inaugural executive Director of Racial Equity for the ginormous
La County. He leads the Anti Racism, Diversity and Inclusion Initiative.
And under that, I mean, this is obviously that's not
all you do, but reparations is falling under that umbrella.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
It does, it does, and a lot of what we
do centers on addressing disparate you know, outcomes, inequitable outcomes, disproportionality.
So some of the work we do is in the
homeless services sector, so we help, you know, make sure
that we're addressing disproportionality and black people experiencing homelessness or
(21:44):
the rise in Latinos experiencing homelessness. My office has worked
on issues from you know, ranging from sexually transmitted infections
to bicycle mobility and justice. You know, after de John
Kizzy was killed in South La, our board adopted emotion
directing our Department of Public Works, our Department of Public Health,
(22:05):
and my office to look at ways that we can
decriminalize mobility. And so one of the things the county
did is they updated their ordinance making it legal for
people to ride their bicycles on sidewalks and especially in
places like South.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Lay Or where there are no where there are no
bike lanes, no bike lanes.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
I mean, I remember being a kid and I would
ride my bike in the street on the opposite side
to make sure that I saw the cars coming in
front of me. I paid attention to what was behind.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Me, right, And all of these things are important, but
they're not reparations. And that's one of the that's one
of the big I guess sticking points is that what
I'm hearing is that we're putting too many things under
the category of reparations that aren't reparation. They could be
they could be affirmative action, they might be anti discrimination laws.
(22:53):
All of those things are good, but they're not reparations.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
That's right. I think, you know, the reparations as a frame,
you know, is important for our work to try and
advance racial equity. Right. It's one of the things that
we can do, it's not all that can be done.
So my office is focused on advancing equity broadly, and
reparations is one of those things that we can do.
And for us, you know, we look at reparations as
(23:17):
a way to emphasize healing and fixing the wrongs of
the past, and I think also, you know, identifying how
government can play a role in doing that. And again,
my job is to present options to the board, right,
it's not to make decisions, is not to put forward
my opinions. It's to do the work necessary for the
board to understand where their options may be. And I would,
(23:40):
you know, I would argue that that we have to
think about it comprehensively within the context of the environment
that we're in, because you know, there's obviously, again as
you mentioned before, there's a lot of backlash in this environment.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Right, no doubt. I know that you sat on the
Board of Regents for a little while. What a job,
That is an important job, and so of course I
have to ask you your opinion, even though this is
not a county scenario on AB seven, which would authorize
priority admissions for descendants of American chattel slavery and higher education.
(24:17):
And there's two reasons for that. One, you said we
need to look at establishing a legal framework. Of course,
I know you were talking about the county, but what
applies in the county or the city or at the
state level is ultimately going to play a role in
how things are interpreted nationally as well. And the other
reason is because some folks don't see that as reparations.
(24:41):
I do. Some say this is more like in the
affirmative action bucket.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
So before I get to answer the question on AB seven,
I'll talk about the legal framework question because I think
it's really important. So you may be aware and many people,
maybe maybe your listeners know that. You know, the county
return Bruce's Beach to the descendants of charleson will Brooks,
and we don't call that reparations either. That was restitution, right,
because it was repairing a harm. But there was a
(25:08):
legal framework that we were able to use to get
it done, and we did it successfully. So when you
think about a track record of getting work done using
a legal framework, you can we have an example already right.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Now, which was a partnership between the county and the state.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
That's right, that's right with Senator Bradford with SB seven
ninety six and the work that he did helping to
make sure we had the ability to return that land
and amend the deed. And you know, I was on
the phone with the State Parks commit the State Parks folk,
and you know, we worked really hard together and with
the Governor's office to get that done, and with Senator
(25:44):
Breffer's office to get that done. So you know, these
steps are necessary to move things forward. And so while
some folks may say, oh, you know AB seven, which
identifies and allows the University of California and other state
institutions to note who is a descendant of you know,
enslaved persons, is not reparations. The reality is you have
(26:04):
to look at the big picture. You have to look
at everything in whole, and the steps we have to
take to get to the place where we can repair
the harm require many sort of small pebbles that you
put in place and build up on. And so I
see ABE seven as one of those steps on the
road right to repair.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Is that I think bill package called there's call the
Road to Repair twenty twenty five Priority Build Package. That's
that's an interesting perspective, especially when you put it alongside
Bruce's Beach, which took so many little steps, but which
was something which even though it isn't technically reparations, it's restitution.
(26:44):
It is part of I think the momentum where people
are accepting this idea that there has to be repair.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
That's right. And I think because we you know, one
of the good things about what Bruce's Beach us for
us as an example, and we were you know, we
were definitely challenged on that as well.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Yeah, I never I never thought i'd see that in
my lifetime.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
To get it done, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
To get that done, You're going to give these black
people back they beach. Okay, I never thought I'd see
that in my lifetime. And I was really really happy
to see it, and still am. Even though some people
were mad because they sold. If it's theirs, they get
to do what they want with it, still a win.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
You know, A credit goes to our board. I think,
you know, they had the political will, Supervisors Mitchell and
Supervisors Han and the rest of the board had the
political will to do what they believe was right, and
they gave us the ability to take our time. We
you know, we did an assessment of people who said
(27:45):
they may have had claim to the land. We did
a genealogical assessment. We spent a lot of time really
working to get that right. And that's what I would
invite folks to think about in this moment, not that
not that we have the time, right. I think the
reality is people you know, are struggling, We are all
facing significant challenges. We want to experience the repair right
(28:08):
now and we deserve to. And we also know that
there are people who are working against our efforts. And
so if we're not strategic, then we're not We're not
gonna win. We're not gonna win the long term. You know,
we're not gonna win. We're not gonna win on this issue.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Yeah. Well, so do you feel like the victory on
Bruce's Beach and the work that was done on the
county level, do you think that impacted the way the county,
the way just the environment in terms of how reparations, restitution,
(28:47):
this kind of justice is viewed, what's possible is viewed.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
I think because it was one of the first times
a local government of a returned land, it it opened
up the doors possibility, right, I think is your point out?
Like it showed people that something can be done to
addressed harm, to address harms of the past. What I
don't think it's quite done is it's not given us
(29:14):
a framework for reparations per se, right right, And I
think that's not what it was intended to do. It
was one incident, one situation, one clear historical example. One
of the challenges I think we have in this field
more broadly is that we again we have laws in
place in place you can't just like, use taxpayer dollars
(29:36):
to give money to people that would be considered a
gift to public funds, right though, there are prohibitions on
how dollars can be used to address these issues that
many of our folks would like to see addressed, that
we have to we have to solve for those things too.
The other thing I think that Bruce's Beach did is
it gave us, you know, the ability to see very
(29:59):
clear legally, how we can establish a framework for addressing
harms in that state build and I helped to write
some of that language in that state bill. We drew
up on the UN's principles of reparations to call for
government's responsibility to address harm, to prevent discrimination, to prevent
(30:21):
you know, illegal treatment, et cetera. And I think that
there isn't an opportunity for us to really lean into
what our role is to prevent discrimination, to align with
the civil Rights Acts, to you know, align with California's
you know, civil Rights Act, to make sure that we
use existing legal frameworks to advance this work.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Yeah, and I mean, if you're going to the un description,
of course, restitution is part of reparations in a larger sense,
but it is not the whole ballgame. And I think
part of what we need to do is be intentional
about understanding everything that's included, and that also cannot ignore
(31:03):
the idea of financial reparation. A check. Doctor d'Artagnan scores
us here. You're welcome if you want to get in
on it eight hundred and nine to oh, fifteen eighty,
or if you're shy, hop in the YouTube chat and
ask your question there. Certainly there's a lot of conversation
going on there, doctor Scorza. As we continue on KBLA
(31:25):
Talk fifteen eighty, doctor d'Artagnan, Scorza is with me, and
he is doing this equity thing for the county, LA County,
which is huge. It's I didn't realize bigger than thirty
eight states. That's a lot of states. That's most of
the states, fourth largest economy in the world here in
LA So it's like doing reparations for a little country
(31:49):
within a country. And you said that you don't want
to rush it. So does that mean there's no timeframe
at this point in terms of when you deliver that
report to the supervisors.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
That's a great question. It means that we're taking the
time to understand the complexity of the issue we are spending.
So what we will be doing is talking to folk
in community about what they'd like to see happen, and
that'll go into the report that we do provide for
the Supervisors, and those listening sessions will be coming out
here very soon, likely October November of this year, before
(32:26):
the end of the year. We've already talked to a
number of reparations leaders in the field who are very
interested in working with us, and we've been in conversation
with them now for months to think about and inform
what our truth Racial Healing and Transformation work group is
going to look like. And so I think once we
get those work groups established, that will give us a
timeframe for when we present recommendations to the board. Again,
(32:50):
it starts with the apology. We've convened our county departments
to get their feedback and get their input on what
needs to happen. And again we're doing the research. You know,
the other I think challenge. As I mentioned before, the
research is going to establish the legal basis upon which
we do this work. But it's not like it's easy
to go. People didn't, you know, document the burning of
(33:10):
a mattress on somebody's lawns so easily, right, That wasn't
something that was always documented. So we have to go
find oral histories, we have to find historical records. There's
a lot of stuff that has to be done and uncovered,
and that's also something that takes time. But when we
establish the work group that will give us a timeframe,
we'll be very clear with the public about what that means.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Yeah, I mean it's true. No, everyone didn't have an iPhone,
then let me catch this cross on my lawn burning,
So you have to reconstruct. Do you think that public
opinion is changing? I mean, I know that we're in this.
You know, we went through twenty twenty where everyone said, yeah,
(33:52):
let's fix this race problem we had. Now we're all
the way into backlash.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
You know, when I took this job, I was really
clear that there was a window we had to do
as much as we can before the backlash emerged. All
we have to do is go back and look at reconstruction,
and then we look at times after the Great Depression,
and then we look after the Civil Rights Act. Every
(34:20):
single time there have been major incidents of racial major
moments of racial progress, there have been countervailing forces that
have pushed us in the opposite direction. And so I
am I am a like you know, I'm not surprised.
I am a I'm not shocked by what we're seeing
right now. And I think, you know, we have been
(34:41):
preparing for a moment like this. What we call is
an error of regression. And so public opinion, you know,
is both shaped and constructed by various forces. But in
this case, we you know, we anticipated the folk who
are against an a post of these efforts, we're going
to push back. And so we're working really hard to
make sure that we embed in government practices and procedures
(35:04):
that enable us to continue to do this work and
move forward. So yes, public opinion may or may not
be in our favor. But I think what is in
our favor is sort of these universal values and principles
of fairness, of equality, of treating people, you know, with
respect and dignity. And even with what we're seeing right
now happening with the raids, we in La County, we
(35:26):
in La we're all pushing many of us are pushing
back against that right like we're not standing for that.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Yeah, well, since you went to Ice, let's go to
judicially affirmed in the chat says why does it take
so long for cities, counties and states to do what's
right for freedmen, but give immigrants money, business and land
as soon as they cross the border. I think that
business and land and money thing is wildly exaggerated unless
(35:52):
you're talking about Ukrainians. But nevertheless, clearly there's a there
is a process that we we meaning black people, freedmen,
descendants of chattel slavery, ados, FBA, whatever y'all want to
call it, are always last on the list. And if
you look at the history of reparations in this country,
(36:14):
we've given reparations to a lot of folks, people who
have been harmed by pharmaceuticals, farmers, whose crops have been
ruined by this that or the third you know, Japanese
Americans who have been staunchly in support of Black American reparations,
and on and on it goes. So what's your perception
of that? I mean, I know it's a loaded question,
but so.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
First let me acknowledge that I know a lot of
us are are, you know, asking a very similar question, right,
Why do we always have to be last when there
are so many other folks who have needs they get
to be put first. And I'll say first what I've
shared with a lot of a lot of folks. You know,
(36:58):
we we I do not believe in these illusions of division.
And the reality is, for our border supervisors, all five
of them voted for this reparation's motion, right, All five
of them supported. All five of them are backing the
work we're doing, and already all five of them are
committed to advancing equity and committed to making sure that
(37:21):
the needs of you know, black folk and every single
resident in La County are addressed. That's the first thing
that we're in. We're in this work together. And so
when folk are like, hey, you know, you know, they
shouldn't get theirs before I get mine. The reality is
we're operating I think from a place where there's been
(37:44):
a lot of pain. There's been a lot of hurt,
There's been a lot of harm. And my reality is
and my job is to make sure that that we
think about this from a targeting universalism approach, that we
have outcomes for everybody, that we have targets strategies that
meet the needs of each and every single one of us.
And so meeting the needs of black folk should not
(38:06):
take away from meeting the needs of immigrant communities. Meeting
the needs of you know, Japanese residents or Native and
Hawaiian Pacific Island of residents shouldn't take away from meeting
needs of American, Indian and Alaska Native residents. There are
going to be different strategies that are going to be
different approaches, and that's how we've been informing and shaping
our approach here in the in the in the county
as well, making sure that we are addressing those needs
(38:30):
based upon the ways in which our communities have expressed
their needs need to be addressed.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
Just got time flies when you're on the radio. We
just got about a minute and a half here hand
the mic to you. I know there were some points
you wanted to make, but also if you want to
address how people you know are activists, how they can
help move this forward.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Yeah, I think folk should stay involved. I have the
and and also realize that you have someone in the
county who's deeply committed to this work. I have my
great great great great grandmother's emancipation papers. I can touch them.
(39:13):
I have the news paper clipping from her widow, Pashan,
who died when the sheriff posted a notice saying that
anyone who had claimed against her state could come and
get them right. And so this is not an issue
that I'm distant from. This is an issue that I
am personally connected to. And I can go back to
my family's land in Louisiana and set my foot on
(39:35):
the place where my grandmother was raised and point to
examples of harm that existed. What you have in the county,
I think, through our Board of Supervisors is a commitment
to figuring out how we can do this work as
best we can. But you have in me a desire
to give the board an option, give them a set
of options, and give them a framework so that they
(39:58):
can make the best decisions to address this issue today.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Well, we appreciate your coming by on a Friedman Friday,
and thank you for giving us insight into what's happening
in La County around this issue.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Thank you for having me all right.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
The phone lines are wide open, and you got a
thing to say about a thing you heard, or you
want to talk about something completely different. The early morning
raid of John Bolton's home. Oh, there's a lot going
on around there. Eight hundred and nine two oh, fifteen eighty.
I'm Dominique Diaprima for KBLA Talk, fifteen eighty
Maybe LA Talk fifteen eighty. It's become our reparations theme
song at l O Black I need a Dalla or
several trillion. We are pleased to be welcoming in for
this comprehensive reparations conversation. It's a series that's been going
on almost two years. We call it Friedman Friday, and
today we're welcoming in the inaugural Executive Director of Racial
(00:21):
Equity for LA County. He leads the Anti Racism, Diversity
and Inclusion Initiative rd which is aimed at improving life
outcomes for all LA County residents. Doctor d'Artagnan scores so welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Thank you so much for having me today.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Yeah, you were before working with the county. You were
one of the founders of the Social Justice Learning Institute
and worked in Englewood Schools, a whole bunch of different
different jobs that all of them, your focus has been
about social justice.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
That's right. The founder actually, the Social Justice Are Institute
came out of my dissertation and my research at Morningside
High School working with young black men. To corner side
is where I'm from. This is I'm a monarch, monarch
pride here from Englewood, and I'll tell you, like you
know it was. It was a great opportunity to really
(01:18):
understand how to help young men who were formerly incarcerated
and on probation exit those carcrow systems and make it
to college. So we were able to get them to
graduate at over ninety five percent and get them into
college and gainfully employed. And that work continues to today.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
You know, right now, diversity inclusion is practically practically illegal.
I mean, it's not illegal, but since the President is
making all of these executive orders and punishing companies and
institutions that do anything that they label as diversity and inclusion,
(02:00):
it's almost worth functioning as if it's illegal.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
You know, first of all, diversity, equity, and inclusion is
not illegal, so well, you know, I know, I know
that's how it has been framed in certain places, but
it's not right. I mean, I think when you think
about diversity anything about what the opposite of diversity is
or inclusion, and what the opposite of inclusion is, which
(02:23):
is exclusion, you can only imagine how problematic that is. Yeah,
you know.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeah. At the same time, we always talk about reparations
here and a lot of the conversation has to do
with where we don't want to We are not affirmative action,
we are not DEI. We're talking about something totally different,
which is a debt and repair of harm. So how
does that, how does that fit within your your understanding
(02:53):
of your work?
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Well, you know, it's interesting. So one of the things
I can say is that, like as the executive director
of the Arty Initiative, I serve at the pleasure of
our Chief Executive Office and our Board of Supervisors. And
what I'm really focused on is what's happening here locally. Right.
I can't control what's happening at the federal level, and
I can't you know, you know, manage what's happening coming
(03:18):
out of this administration. But my focus has really been
centered on making sure that communities here in La County
are being served and that their needs are being met
through these various poly crises. Because it's not just the
antidi work or anti DiiA first coming out of the
federal administration, but it's also you know, the fires, right
(03:40):
that have happened, recovery from the pandemic, the various sort
of poly crises we've been experiencing, And so what We're
really focused on here locally, and ARTY is making sure
that our board making sure that our supervisors have the
information and the tools they need to make effective decisions
for our residents.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Yeah. Well, I mean that's all we can ask. And
there's always conversation about where we should be focused on
when we talk about reparations. Is it cities, as it counties,
is it states? Is it federal? Right now nationally, it's
happening on all of those levels. Happening meaning the activism
the policy pushes, even you know, HR forty, even though
(04:25):
it probably won't go anywhere, it was introduced again, So
what is happening at the county level here in Los Angeles?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
So I'm really excited to talk about that. I think locally,
you know, our supervisors adopted unanimously adopted a motion directing
the ARTY team and the Aaraty Initiative to explore what
actions the county can take to provide reparations to our residents.
So the motion itself calls for us to build up
(04:55):
on the efforts of the State Reparations Task Force, and
it also asks us to put forward a set of
policy recommendations along with the research to examine the many
incidents of harm that you know, people who are formally
who are descendants of people who are formally enslaved, experience
across all sectors in our society. So the board, you know,
(05:20):
directed my team to really examine and understand what we
could do here locally. So right now what we're doing
is we're documenting the local harms. Before we can get
to the place where we talk about what can be repaired,
we have to understand what we are repairing. The state
reparation task for us is a really good job laying
out of framework, but it didn't really articulate in any
(05:42):
significant detail what happened at the local level. So we've
been finding, you know, hundreds of incidents. So for example,
there was an under sheriff, you know, just before the
Civil War who put together a posse to uphold enslavement.
And you know the state of California was a free
state and yet there was still slavery that was documented
(06:03):
here in La County, and a whole host of other
issues like that. So we've identified over thirty incidents throughout
the areas throughout the county where either the KKK or
a law enforcement supported racial terror. We have identified where
there are you know, many incidents of harm that have
(06:26):
taken place in this past century alone, so that work
is really important. I think that's the first step. The
second step is for us to develop a framework for
a truth, racial healing and transformation sort of a group
to help us think about what the board is called for,
which is an official apology to African Americans. And so
(06:48):
you know, with this framework, we'll present that to the board. Ultimately,
my job is to inform the board so they can
make decisions. But we'll present it to the board, giving
them advice that include the lived experience or historical information
that people that we've been able to find, and provide
that framework to the board so that they can review it.
(07:09):
And I think that framework will enable the board to
take whatever actions they want to take or steps they
may want to take or may not want to take
to inform this work.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
All right, we're talking with doctor d'Artagnan scores. Ah, we're
talking reparations because it's a Freedman Friday on KVLA Talk
fifteen eighty aug Executive Director of Racial Equity for La County.
La County is huge, bigger than many states in terms
of population. Definitely in terms of budget, Doctor d'Artagnan scorzas
here on a Friedman Friday. And so you just laid
(07:39):
out the fact that there was a motion that passed
unanimously that was Supervisor Holly Mitchell's motion, if I'm not
mistaken to basically look at what can the County of
La do about reparation? And you've laid out that you're
in the phase of seeing local harms. So is it
(08:00):
sounds like it's getting more specifics because the California Task
Force did kind of do a comprehensive overlook of harms,
but you're getting specific to the county. Is that what
we're doing right now? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
I think that's right, and you know, thank you know,
I'm grateful for Supervisor Metroll's leadership because I think she
really wanted to make sure that that we took this
issue on head first, right, and we are following the
direction from the state. So I think it's important to
note that our, you know, efforts with the state are
(08:33):
largely aligned, and that we really want to make sure
that we are aligned, you know, supporting what they're doing
and following their direction. But at the local level, you know,
we had to spend time understanding the relationship between these
harms and their impacts upon descendants of shadow slavery, specifically
(08:56):
African Americans, and I think that's important to note. I
think the other thing that is important is we have
to spend time. You know, Reparations is not just about
the check. I think a lot of people talk about that.
We know, some people argue it is right.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
I think the main argument is just that it's we
don't exclude the check.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
I think that's right.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
It's not just the check. But a lot of times
when people say that, they're saying it to minimize cash payments,
and most people don't want to hear that.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
No, I agree, And I think the thing though, I
think about when I consider reparations is that it's really
about the fact that so many of us have been
harmed in our communities for generations, and when we ask
for those harms to be redressed or to be addressed,
we're typically denied, right, We're denied redress. And when I
(09:49):
you know, I'm not saying it's not just about the
check to say we should exclude cash payments. I'm saying
that because it's also about not replicating those harms. Like
you can't can't just provide conversation and then turn around
and use state violence against people again, Right, You can't
just address housing crises and get people into housing and
(10:14):
then turn around and pass laws that make it illegal
for them to marry who they love, for example. The law,
the policy, the practices have to follow so that we
don't repeat history. And so I think the important piece
here is to make sure that we understand not only
(10:36):
what the legal framework is that we're going to use
to do the work that we need to do and
present those options to the board, but that we also
recognize how important it is for us to not perpetuate
the harms that have been caused in the past.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
So, now you said you're in that information gathering phase
for the county. I'm sure there's some overlap with the
city reparations commissioned. The City of La, of course is
much smaller than the County of LA, but it's in
the County of LA and they just, through the LA
Civil Rights Department, turned in a summary sort of of
(11:12):
their reparations work. Is that factoring in and if so,
how you know?
Speaker 2 (11:16):
I have great admiration for the work of Caprimatics and
her team and what they did. I think that the
City of La has set a model for how to
think about and bring people together in community, both to
produce their report, which I've read it's incredible, but to
also I think, lay a framework for actions the city
(11:36):
can take. Now, you said the county is very large,
and you're right, we have more than eighty eight cities.
We're larger than thirty eight states. You know, forty seven
plus billion dollar budget. It's a huge organization and so
for us, we can certainly look at what the City
of La has done, but we have a lot of
unincorporated residents in areas. We have you know, over forty
(11:59):
plus you know, law enforcement agencies that we're exploring. So
it's a huge undertaking. And while we can look at
the city's example, I think we're thinking about this at
a regional level, and that'll enable us to understand how,
you know, places like Glendale which was a sundown town,
or the end Low Valley which were Sundowntown's as well
(12:20):
affected residents, or Manhattan Beach right, which you know, which
is where Bruce's Beach took place. Right. It gives us
sort of a regional perspective, and so we can drop
upon what the City of La done did, but we
have to really look broader for the entire area.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yeah. Part of the reason I mentioned it is because
you were talking about some of the information that came
out regarding the role of law enforcement and the role
of the clan. And one of the things that was
most startling for me in the LA report was how
popular the KKK was and probably still is in southern California,
(12:56):
with so many branches in this immediate area.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Yeah. And one of those branches was in Inglewood, right,
which is where I'm from. And I remember when I
was writing my dissertation at UCLA, I did a little
bit of history on schools in Inglewood and found that
there were, you know, a lot of acts of violence
in that community that occurred. And I think that, you know,
(13:22):
we have to recognize the role that racial terror has
played in our communities. And I'm grateful that the task
force in the City of La did that work, right,
Manlin and all these incredible folks who I've known for
years that have looked at the role that the KKK played,
including you know, somebody serving as a mayor. You had
(13:43):
district attorneys and police officers, all these folk were embedded
in our institutions. So when we think about their role
in sort of upholding laws unfairly unjustly harming our communities,
we have a lot. We have a very strong case
for why we need to do this work.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Yeah, no doubt. Now, what what does your timeline look
like for because I know, for example, with the city effort,
they've completed their executive summary, then it goes to the
City Council. They have to come up with their full report.
Then it goes to the City council, and city council
has to act or not act. Right, you guys are
(14:24):
still in the information gathering phase at this point.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
We are. And you know, one of the things that
I've been really clear about, and I've communicated both with
my staff and our team as well as our internal
external stakeholders, is that we really want to take the
time to get this right. This is not something we
can rush. I think, you know, we see what's happened
with other reparations around the issues and efforts around the
country with Evanston and Tulsa, and so you know, given
(14:52):
that the county is working through a lot of challenging issues,
we you know, recently went through the fires here to
DTAM paths and palisades. You know, we are taking the
time we need to look at this issue with detail
and with the sensitivity it deserves. The other thing I
(15:14):
think to note is that you know, that doesn't preclude
us from being responsive as the social safety nets. So
the county is still providing services. The county is still
meeting the needs of our residents. The county is still
carrying out efforts to provide services, and it's still doing
(15:34):
what's right by our residence on a day to day basis.
So I think you have in the county a great partner.
We also have, you know, you have our The board
is committed to justicekaren opportunities. You know Judge Sunghai Armstead
is leading that work and making sure that we address
cursoral issues in the county. Right So there are efforts
that are underway, and while those efforts are underway, we
(15:57):
are taking the time to explore how they can be
aligned with what we're trying to do as a relate
to reparations.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Understood, it's a huge county. You don't wanna, you don't
want to, you know, be sloppy. I hear a lot
of conversation though, why do we need another study? Why
do we you know, we could just take the California study.
Some folks apply that to local stuff here. Some are
applying it to HR forty and saying, you know, extrapolate,
we know what happened. Isn't it time for action? In fact,
(16:28):
that was the logic that Governor Wes Moore used when
he decided to veto that reparations in Maryland, a reparations bill,
because he said it's time for action, no more studies.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Yeah, you know, and I admire Governor Moore. I think
he's done a lot to help serve as a leader
for many folk across the country in this area. But
the issue I realize, you know, is that this is
really complex work. I wouldn't say that we need another study.
We we have to establish the legal basis upon which
we're going to do the repair. And because it's a
(17:05):
complex issue, what we're seeing and have seen is that
while there are a lot of jurisdictions that are trying
to advance this work, unfortunately a lot of them are
walking them back too. Right. So, because folks have sort
of they're like, yeah, we're going to get to it,
We're going to make it happen, and I admire them
making those commitments, and I think our county has made
a commitment to explore it as well. I don't want
that to happen here in La County, where you know,
(17:26):
we rush out, we get in front of ourselves, and
we don't take the time we need to actually build
the foundation upon which we're going to do this work.
I think you had Assembly Member Brian in here a
few weeks ago, and he talked about doing that work
with AB seven right, trying to establish the legal basis
upon which the University of California can provide or state
(17:48):
universities can provide preferential admissions to descendants of shadow slavery.
It takes time because we have laws that are designed
to prevent us from doing this very work. And so
you can't just assume that we're going to roll out
programs and services tomorrow when we have barriers to doing
all of that. And there are there are you know, uh,
(18:11):
systems that are in place to prevent it from happening.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yeah. And aside from the systems which are long standing,
many of them long standing, we also have a current
environment in the country, combined with the fiscal emergency of
all these budget challenges, which are made worse by the fires,
which seems very hostile to this kind of work. But
(18:38):
the county is moving forward anyway.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Yeah, that's a great question. Yeah, our board has been
very clear about their values, their commitment to equity. I
think it's more about understanding where the need is at.
So you know, they have given me direction to continue
to do the work that we're doing and to help
rest the need. You know, racial equity is ultimately about
(19:02):
getting to a place where race is no longer a
predictor or a factor in whether or not you receive
the benefits of burdens in society. And what our board
has been very clear about is that we want to
make sure that we're addressing people's needs. And government does
this already, right, Like we have homeless programs, homeless services programs,
we have food vouchers. Although we know that this administration
(19:25):
has been working to you know, claw a lot of
that stuff back, we provide for needs. So I think
our board is really clear about that, and there's nothing
illegal about doing that. And in fact, government has a
responsibility to prevent discrimination, right to redress harm, to repair challenges,
and to provide remedies for people who are experiencing those harms.
And so if we maintain that commitment, this work that
(19:48):
we're doing is very consistent with the environment that we're
in right now. And I think if you understand what
the federal administration is trying to do, you know, the
way they have framed their consideration of DEI is synonymous
with the legal preferences and things that we've already gotten
rid of here in the state of California through Proposition
(20:08):
two on nine. And while you know Proposition two on
nine I think has caused a lot of harm to
focun our communities, it also it also sort of was
a precursor to what we're experiencing now.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
I may have prepared us for this moment. We've got news, traffic,
and sports, and then we'll have more reparations with doctor
d'Artagnan Scorza on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty Welcome back to
your home for Friedman Friday. We are dedicated to having
a comprehensive reparations conversation each and every week, and if
you've missed them, they're all available on YouTube YouTube dot com.
(20:42):
KBLA fifteen eighty or wherever you get your podcasts for free.
Some of it is about making sure we know what's happening,
and some of it is about being part of the momentum,
which incredibly, I think it's pretty incredible continues in this
current environment. In fact, doctor d'Artagnan Scorzo's with us. He's
(21:04):
the inaugural executive Director of Racial Equity for the ginormous
La County. He leads the Anti Racism, Diversity and Inclusion Initiative.
And under that, I mean, this is obviously that's not
all you do, but reparations is falling under that umbrella.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
It does, it does, and a lot of what we
do centers on addressing disparate you know, outcomes, inequitable outcomes, disproportionality.
So some of the work we do is in the
homeless services sector, so we help, you know, make sure
that we're addressing disproportionality and black people experiencing homelessness or
(21:44):
the rise in Latinos experiencing homelessness. My office has worked
on issues from you know, ranging from sexually transmitted infections
to bicycle mobility and justice. You know, after de John
Kizzy was killed in South La, our board adopted emotion
directing our Department of Public Works, our Department of Public Health,
(22:05):
and my office to look at ways that we can
decriminalize mobility. And so one of the things the county
did is they updated their ordinance making it legal for
people to ride their bicycles on sidewalks and especially in
places like South.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Lay Or where there are no where there are no
bike lanes, no bike lanes.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
I mean, I remember being a kid and I would
ride my bike in the street on the opposite side
to make sure that I saw the cars coming in
front of me. I paid attention to what was behind.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Me, right, And all of these things are important, but
they're not reparations. And that's one of the that's one
of the big I guess sticking points is that what
I'm hearing is that we're putting too many things under
the category of reparations that aren't reparation. They could be
they could be affirmative action, they might be anti discrimination laws.
(22:53):
All of those things are good, but they're not reparations.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
That's right. I think, you know, the reparations as a frame,
you know, is important for our work to try and
advance racial equity. Right. It's one of the things that
we can do, it's not all that can be done.
So my office is focused on advancing equity broadly, and
reparations is one of those things that we can do.
And for us, you know, we look at reparations as
(23:17):
a way to emphasize healing and fixing the wrongs of
the past, and I think also, you know, identifying how
government can play a role in doing that. And again,
my job is to present options to the board, right,
it's not to make decisions, is not to put forward
my opinions. It's to do the work necessary for the
board to understand where their options may be. And I would,
(23:40):
you know, I would argue that that we have to
think about it comprehensively within the context of the environment
that we're in, because you know, there's obviously, again as
you mentioned before, there's a lot of backlash in this environment.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Right, no doubt. I know that you sat on the
Board of Regents for a little while. What a job,
That is an important job, and so of course I
have to ask you your opinion, even though this is
not a county scenario on AB seven, which would authorize
priority admissions for descendants of American chattel slavery and higher education.
(24:17):
And there's two reasons for that. One, you said we
need to look at establishing a legal framework. Of course,
I know you were talking about the county, but what
applies in the county or the city or at the
state level is ultimately going to play a role in
how things are interpreted nationally as well. And the other
reason is because some folks don't see that as reparations.
(24:41):
I do. Some say this is more like in the
affirmative action bucket.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
So before I get to answer the question on AB seven,
I'll talk about the legal framework question because I think
it's really important. So you may be aware and many people,
maybe maybe your listeners know that. You know, the county
return Bruce's Beach to the descendants of charleson will Brooks,
and we don't call that reparations either. That was restitution, right,
because it was repairing a harm. But there was a
(25:08):
legal framework that we were able to use to get
it done, and we did it successfully. So when you
think about a track record of getting work done using
a legal framework, you can we have an example already right.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Now, which was a partnership between the county and the state.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
That's right, that's right with Senator Bradford with SB seven
ninety six and the work that he did helping to
make sure we had the ability to return that land
and amend the deed. And you know, I was on
the phone with the State Parks commit the State Parks folk,
and you know, we worked really hard together and with
the Governor's office to get that done, and with Senator
(25:44):
Breffer's office to get that done. So you know, these
steps are necessary to move things forward. And so while
some folks may say, oh, you know AB seven, which
identifies and allows the University of California and other state
institutions to note who is a descendant of you know,
enslaved persons, is not reparations. The reality is you have
(26:04):
to look at the big picture. You have to look
at everything in whole, and the steps we have to
take to get to the place where we can repair
the harm require many sort of small pebbles that you
put in place and build up on. And so I
see ABE seven as one of those steps on the
road right to repair.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Is that I think bill package called there's call the
Road to Repair twenty twenty five Priority Build Package. That's
that's an interesting perspective, especially when you put it alongside
Bruce's Beach, which took so many little steps, but which
was something which even though it isn't technically reparations, it's restitution.
(26:44):
It is part of I think the momentum where people
are accepting this idea that there has to be repair.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
That's right. And I think because we you know, one
of the good things about what Bruce's Beach us for
us as an example, and we were you know, we
were definitely challenged on that as well.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Yeah, I never I never thought i'd see that in
my lifetime.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
To get it done, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
To get that done, You're going to give these black
people back they beach. Okay, I never thought I'd see
that in my lifetime. And I was really really happy
to see it, and still am. Even though some people
were mad because they sold. If it's theirs, they get
to do what they want with it, still a win.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
You know, A credit goes to our board. I think,
you know, they had the political will, Supervisors Mitchell and
Supervisors Han and the rest of the board had the
political will to do what they believe was right, and
they gave us the ability to take our time. We
you know, we did an assessment of people who said
(27:45):
they may have had claim to the land. We did
a genealogical assessment. We spent a lot of time really
working to get that right. And that's what I would
invite folks to think about in this moment, not that
not that we have the time, right. I think the
reality is people you know, are struggling, We are all
facing significant challenges. We want to experience the repair right
(28:08):
now and we deserve to. And we also know that
there are people who are working against our efforts. And
so if we're not strategic, then we're not We're not
gonna win. We're not gonna win the long term. You know,
we're not gonna win. We're not gonna win on this issue.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Yeah. Well, so do you feel like the victory on
Bruce's Beach and the work that was done on the
county level, do you think that impacted the way the county,
the way just the environment in terms of how reparations, restitution,
(28:47):
this kind of justice is viewed, what's possible is viewed.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
I think because it was one of the first times
a local government of a returned land, it it opened
up the doors possibility, right, I think is your point out?
Like it showed people that something can be done to
addressed harm, to address harms of the past. What I
don't think it's quite done is it's not given us
(29:14):
a framework for reparations per se, right right, And I
think that's not what it was intended to do. It
was one incident, one situation, one clear historical example. One
of the challenges I think we have in this field
more broadly is that we again we have laws in
place in place you can't just like, use taxpayer dollars
(29:36):
to give money to people that would be considered a
gift to public funds, right though, there are prohibitions on
how dollars can be used to address these issues that
many of our folks would like to see addressed, that
we have to we have to solve for those things too.
The other thing I think that Bruce's Beach did is
it gave us, you know, the ability to see very
(29:59):
clear legally, how we can establish a framework for addressing
harms in that state build and I helped to write
some of that language in that state bill. We drew
up on the UN's principles of reparations to call for
government's responsibility to address harm, to prevent discrimination, to prevent
(30:21):
you know, illegal treatment, et cetera. And I think that
there isn't an opportunity for us to really lean into
what our role is to prevent discrimination, to align with
the civil Rights Acts, to you know, align with California's
you know, civil Rights Act, to make sure that we
use existing legal frameworks to advance this work.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Yeah, and I mean, if you're going to the un description,
of course, restitution is part of reparations in a larger sense,
but it is not the whole ballgame. And I think
part of what we need to do is be intentional
about understanding everything that's included, and that also cannot ignore
(31:03):
the idea of financial reparation. A check. Doctor d'Artagnan scores
us here. You're welcome if you want to get in
on it eight hundred and nine to oh, fifteen eighty,
or if you're shy, hop in the YouTube chat and
ask your question there. Certainly there's a lot of conversation
going on there, doctor Scorza. As we continue on KBLA
(31:25):
Talk fifteen eighty, doctor d'Artagnan, Scorza is with me, and
he is doing this equity thing for the county, LA County,
which is huge. It's I didn't realize bigger than thirty
eight states. That's a lot of states. That's most of
the states, fourth largest economy in the world here in
LA So it's like doing reparations for a little country
(31:49):
within a country. And you said that you don't want
to rush it. So does that mean there's no timeframe
at this point in terms of when you deliver that
report to the supervisors.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
That's a great question. It means that we're taking the
time to understand the complexity of the issue we are spending.
So what we will be doing is talking to folk
in community about what they'd like to see happen, and
that'll go into the report that we do provide for
the Supervisors, and those listening sessions will be coming out
here very soon, likely October November of this year, before
(32:26):
the end of the year. We've already talked to a
number of reparations leaders in the field who are very
interested in working with us, and we've been in conversation
with them now for months to think about and inform
what our truth Racial Healing and Transformation work group is
going to look like. And so I think once we
get those work groups established, that will give us a
timeframe for when we present recommendations to the board. Again,
(32:50):
it starts with the apology. We've convened our county departments
to get their feedback and get their input on what
needs to happen. And again we're doing the research. You know,
the other I think challenge. As I mentioned before, the
research is going to establish the legal basis upon which
we do this work. But it's not like it's easy
to go. People didn't, you know, document the burning of
(33:10):
a mattress on somebody's lawns so easily, right, That wasn't
something that was always documented. So we have to go
find oral histories, we have to find historical records. There's
a lot of stuff that has to be done and uncovered,
and that's also something that takes time. But when we
establish the work group that will give us a timeframe,
we'll be very clear with the public about what that means.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Yeah, I mean it's true. No, everyone didn't have an iPhone,
then let me catch this cross on my lawn burning,
So you have to reconstruct. Do you think that public
opinion is changing? I mean, I know that we're in this.
You know, we went through twenty twenty where everyone said, yeah,
(33:52):
let's fix this race problem we had. Now we're all
the way into backlash.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
You know, when I took this job, I was really
clear that there was a window we had to do
as much as we can before the backlash emerged. All
we have to do is go back and look at reconstruction,
and then we look at times after the Great Depression,
and then we look after the Civil Rights Act. Every
(34:20):
single time there have been major incidents of racial major
moments of racial progress, there have been countervailing forces that
have pushed us in the opposite direction. And so I
am I am a like you know, I'm not surprised.
I am a I'm not shocked by what we're seeing
right now. And I think, you know, we have been
(34:41):
preparing for a moment like this. What we call is
an error of regression. And so public opinion, you know,
is both shaped and constructed by various forces. But in
this case, we you know, we anticipated the folk who
are against an a post of these efforts, we're going
to push back. And so we're working really hard to
make sure that we embed in government practices and procedures
(35:04):
that enable us to continue to do this work and
move forward. So yes, public opinion may or may not
be in our favor. But I think what is in
our favor is sort of these universal values and principles
of fairness, of equality, of treating people, you know, with
respect and dignity. And even with what we're seeing right
now happening with the raids, we in La County, we
(35:26):
in La we're all pushing many of us are pushing
back against that right like we're not standing for that.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Yeah, well, since you went to Ice, let's go to
judicially affirmed in the chat says why does it take
so long for cities, counties and states to do what's
right for freedmen, but give immigrants money, business and land
as soon as they cross the border. I think that
business and land and money thing is wildly exaggerated unless
(35:52):
you're talking about Ukrainians. But nevertheless, clearly there's a there
is a process that we we meaning black people, freedmen,
descendants of chattel slavery, ados, FBA, whatever y'all want to
call it, are always last on the list. And if
you look at the history of reparations in this country,
(36:14):
we've given reparations to a lot of folks, people who
have been harmed by pharmaceuticals, farmers, whose crops have been
ruined by this that or the third you know, Japanese
Americans who have been staunchly in support of Black American reparations,
and on and on it goes. So what's your perception
of that? I mean, I know it's a loaded question,
but so.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
First let me acknowledge that I know a lot of
us are are, you know, asking a very similar question, right,
Why do we always have to be last when there
are so many other folks who have needs they get
to be put first. And I'll say first what I've
shared with a lot of a lot of folks. You know,
(36:58):
we we I do not believe in these illusions of division.
And the reality is, for our border supervisors, all five
of them voted for this reparation's motion, right, All five
of them supported. All five of them are backing the
work we're doing, and already all five of them are
committed to advancing equity and committed to making sure that
(37:21):
the needs of you know, black folk and every single
resident in La County are addressed. That's the first thing
that we're in. We're in this work together. And so
when folk are like, hey, you know, you know, they
shouldn't get theirs before I get mine. The reality is
we're operating I think from a place where there's been
(37:44):
a lot of pain. There's been a lot of hurt,
There's been a lot of harm. And my reality is
and my job is to make sure that that we
think about this from a targeting universalism approach, that we
have outcomes for everybody, that we have targets strategies that
meet the needs of each and every single one of us.
And so meeting the needs of black folk should not
(38:06):
take away from meeting the needs of immigrant communities. Meeting
the needs of you know, Japanese residents or Native and
Hawaiian Pacific Island of residents shouldn't take away from meeting
needs of American, Indian and Alaska Native residents. There are
going to be different strategies that are going to be
different approaches, and that's how we've been informing and shaping
our approach here in the in the in the county
as well, making sure that we are addressing those needs
(38:30):
based upon the ways in which our communities have expressed
their needs need to be addressed.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
Just got time flies when you're on the radio. We
just got about a minute and a half here hand
the mic to you. I know there were some points
you wanted to make, but also if you want to
address how people you know are activists, how they can
help move this forward.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Yeah, I think folk should stay involved. I have the
and and also realize that you have someone in the
county who's deeply committed to this work. I have my
great great great great grandmother's emancipation papers. I can touch them.
(39:13):
I have the news paper clipping from her widow, Pashan,
who died when the sheriff posted a notice saying that
anyone who had claimed against her state could come and
get them right. And so this is not an issue
that I'm distant from. This is an issue that I
am personally connected to. And I can go back to
my family's land in Louisiana and set my foot on
(39:35):
the place where my grandmother was raised and point to
examples of harm that existed. What you have in the county,
I think, through our Board of Supervisors is a commitment
to figuring out how we can do this work as
best we can. But you have in me a desire
to give the board an option, give them a set
of options, and give them a framework so that they
(39:58):
can make the best decisions to address this issue today.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Well, we appreciate your coming by on a Friedman Friday,
and thank you for giving us insight into what's happening
in La County around this issue.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Thank you for having me all right.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
The phone lines are wide open, and you got a
thing to say about a thing you heard, or you
want to talk about something completely different. The early morning
raid of John Bolton's home. Oh, there's a lot going
on around there. Eight hundred and nine two oh, fifteen eighty.
I'm Dominique Diaprima for KBLA Talk, fifteen eighty
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