January 28, 2025 • 44 mins
What drives a first-generation college student to not only enroll but thrive? Join us on First Gen FM as we shine a spotlight on the inspiring stories of Dr. Martina Martin, Catherine Johnson, Ashlee Kocina Young, Wendy Beesley, and Dr. Jennifer Sutton from First Gen Forward. Guests share their personal journey of either discovering her own first-gen identity, and the beliefs that fuel their unwavering commitment to supporting this student population.
Dive into the world of FirstGen Forward (formerly the Center for First-Generation Student Success), a nonprofit entity now leading the charge in providing critical resources and strategic programs to institutions. We explore how measuring belonging and preparing students holistically for life after graduation can dramatically improve retention and completion rates. Our conversation unveils the transformative power of data-informed decision-making, emphasizing how it can dismantle barriers and reveal hidden supports crucial for first-gen success. Discover the importance of simplifying processes like FAFSA and using asset-based language to create a more inclusive educational environment.
You'll find yourself in a vibrant community of the First Gen Forward Network as you listen, and learn about the community where over 400 institutions collaborate to empower first-gen students. Hear firsthand accounts of the invaluable learning and connections formed within this diverse network, and learn how you can get involved, even if your institution isn't yet on board.
Opportunities abound at upcoming NASPA conferences in March and the Student Success in Higher Education conferene in June.
As your host, I'm eager to hear from you. Connect with me at Jen@firstgenfm.com to share your stories and insights, and let's continue this journey together, fostering a platform for dialogue and innovation in first-generation student support.
FirstGen Forward
Established in 2017 as the Center for First-generation Student Success, an initiative of NASPA and The Suder Foundation, the organization has grown and become a collaborative effort across the entire higher education system, working directly with hundreds of institutions that serve millions of first-generation students. In August, 2024, the organization became an independent non-profit under the name FirstGen Forward.
Website: https://firstgen.naspa.org
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/firstgenforward/
Email: network@firstgenforward.org
Podcast guests
Please help others find this podcast by rating and reviewing wherever you listen!
You can find me at https://www.firstgenfm.com/ and on LinkedIn. My email is jen@
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome and welcome back to the First Gen FM podcast
, where we high school andcollege educators strengthen,
celebrate and supportfirst-generation college and
college-bound students.
I'm Jennifer Schoen, your host.
Please call me Jen.
I'd love it if you could leavea review and a rating for this
podcast to help other educatorsfind us.
Thank you so much for takingthe time to do that.
(00:27):
Now let's dive into this week'sepisode.
Welcome back, or welcome toFirst Gen FM.
If this is your first timelistening, I have a fantastic
group of women here with metoday from First Gen Forward and
they're going to talk about.
We're going to talk abouttrends, we're going to talk
about the things that they doand how they got involved in
(00:49):
FirstGen Forward and why they'reinterested in serving FirstGen
students, and about how you canlearn from them and get more
information.
So I'm Jen, I'm your host today, and let's get started and meet
some of these amazing women whoare here to talk with us about
First Gen Forward.
And I'm going to throw it toyou first, martina, to introduce
yourself and tell us how didyou get involved working with
(01:13):
first generation students.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Awesome.
Well, thanks, jen, for havingus here.
Excited to be here Again.
I am Martina Martin and I'mwith First Gen Forward.
I serve as the assistant vicepresident for network success
and have the pleasure of workingwith the ladies that you see
here.
This is our I guess our firstgen squad here at First Gen
Forward.
(01:35):
How did I find myself here?
Well, to be honest, I didn'tknow I was first gen until I was
about 28 years old.
I've already had a bachelor's,a master's, working on a second
master's.
Before I realized in a trainingsession that talked about
special populations of students,student athletes, veterans and
(01:55):
then first gen.
That was my light bulb moment.
Never pieced it together, onlysaw myself as a low income
student who was a part of a triotype program, but I thought it
was because I was low income.
My first part of my career wasworking in athletics, academic
advising, and then I saw a jobposting at an institution that
(02:17):
was with first gen students andI thought, and I thought, that's
(02:40):
me.
I work with special populations, why not apply?
And so, since 2012, I've beenworking specifically with first
generation student.
Correct me, we started on thesame day that we started working
with first and fourth, so rightthere at the two door mark, I
am a proud first generationstudent.
As I said, didn't realize it,but once I discovered that, then
that's what kind of drew me in,to being able to help, as I
(03:03):
jokingly say, sometimes, theother Martinez across the
campuses and across the countryas well.
So a little bit about me.
We have a lot of others.
So I believe, catherine, I'mgoing to turn it over to you,
thank you.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Thank you so much, martina, and thank you so much,
jen for having us on thispodcast so exciting.
So I'm Catherine Johnson.
I am the data expert guide atFirst Gen Forward and I have
been here for three and a halfmonths, I believe.
So I'm still a little bit of anewbie in learning the ropes,
but I'm trying to dive inheadfirst and absorb as much as
(03:39):
I can and do as much work as Ican in this field.
I have a little bit of adifferent story.
I come from a family with a verylong history of college-going
tradition.
But I grew up in a small townin the foothills of the northern
Appalachians where only about10% to 15% of adults have
post-secondary degrees.
(03:59):
But I grew up with parents whoreally encouraged us to examine
our educational privilege,especially within our own
community, and they were bothalso very heavily involved in
sectors of service.
My mom was a professor and thenlater admin administrator at
our local community college andmy dad worked in public interest
law.
So I really was fortunate togrow up with an understanding of
(04:22):
what the power of a degree cando, and not just for individuals
but also for families and forgenerations.
But I really thought throughhigh school and college that I
was going to go completelydifferent direction.
I've had my eyes on ForeignService, un, international Aid
and when I was looking forpositions out of college the
(04:43):
economy said no, that's not yourpath, um.
And a job opened up in higher edas an academic advisor at
university of Maryland,specifically for military and
veteran students.
And that hooked me, um.
It hooked me into higher ed.
It um that frontline service ofworking with, honestly, a lot
of students who reminded me ofthe folks that I grew up with.
(05:03):
Um, because there huge overlapwith first-gen and military and
veteran students.
And from then on I was hookedin working in equity.
In higher ed I moved to acouple of institutions around
the DC area, started in studentservices, academic advising,
then moved over to admissionsand then realized that we could
(05:24):
be doing a lot more withconnecting data to making
systems and work better withinhigher ed.
So I moved into institutionaleffectiveness a little bit For a
first time forward.
I was working with anorganization who did a lot to
help what you know it's aplurality of our students in
(05:49):
higher ed right now across thatfinish line, that degree.
So that's how I ended up here.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Awesome, thank you.
Thank you, catherine.
Okay, ashley, you're up next.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Hi everyone.
It's so great to be on the pod.
Thanks for the invite.
Jen Ashley Cassini-Young and Iserve as the Associate Director
for Expert Guidance withFirstGen Forward and I have been
with FirstGen Forward actuallyjust this past week for three
official years.
So prior to this I had theprivilege of working really
(06:21):
closely and getting to know Jen,getting to know you, jen
through my work as the AssociateDirector for Network Engagement
, and I oversaw institutionsthat had joined us in what we
call the first phase of ourjourney.
So I'm sure we'll talk to you alittle bit more about that
later.
Prior to coming to FirstGenForward, I was institution based
(06:43):
at the University ofNebraska-Lincoln.
So for anyone listening, go BigRed, go Huskers.
I am also a proud First Gencollege graduate that didn't
realize they were a First Geneither until I was in my
master's program for highereducation administration at the
University of Missouri-St Louis.
It was there that kind of allthe pieces came together where I
(07:06):
realized, oh, there were thingsI didn't know or experiences
that I wasn't aware of, and itwasn't, to Martina's point, it
wasn't because I was low incomeor from a super small town.
Some of it had to do with thefact that I am a
first-generation college studentand so since then I've really
made it my career focus to workwith access programs and equity
(07:26):
programs.
So when I was at the Universityof Nebraska-Lincoln, I was
assistant director for theWilliam H Thompson Scholars
Program, which is a scholarshipprogram, a comprehensive college
transition program, really, forstudents who are supported by
the Susan Thompson BuffettFoundation.
And then, while I was with theThompson Scholars, I was asked
(07:50):
to take on an additionalappointment and to serve as the
coordinator for first generationinitiatives and efforts at the
University of Nebraska-Lincoln.
So if you do the math, yes,that was a 1.25%.
So if you do the math, yes,that was a 1.25%, 125%
appointment at the University ofNebraska-Lincoln.
(08:11):
So, coming to First and Forward,I always joke that it's great
to just have one job, which islovely, but I really, really
appreciated the work that I gotto do at the University of
Nebraska overseeing firstgeneration initiatives with Dr
Amy Goodburn, and in that role Iserved as the chair for First
Generation Nebraska, which istheir advisory board for first
(08:33):
generation efforts.
I also served as a contact, aprimary contact, and a
facilitator for the Midwestregional community, which is how
I really came to know First GenForward, when it was known as
the Center for First GenerationStudent Success.
So well, last thing I'll shareis that my claim to fame is that
(08:56):
I am from a very, very smalltown in Nebraska.
So if you look at the 2000census, you'll see that it was
359 people and 1.4% Asian, andthat was me, my brother and my
sister.
So that's my claim to fame.
So if you ever find yourself inPlatt Center, nebraska, and you
say that you know Ashley Casina, everyone will know who you're
(09:18):
talking about.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
All right, I love that.
I love that.
That's an awesome littlefactoid to know All right, wendy
, you're up.
Speaker 5 (09:31):
Very happy to be here today.
My name is Wendy Beasley and Ihave the pleasure of serving as
the Director of Expert Guidancewith First Gen Forward.
Professionally, I've spent morethan 25 years in higher
education, most of which havebeen in the community college
space.
By complete accident, I took a10-month temporary position at a
(09:51):
community college and 22 yearslater retired from that position
, having worked in mostdepartments at the institution,
having just fallen in love withthe diversity of students, the
range of programming and the wayin which the community college
experience really transformsstudents' lives, families' lives
(10:13):
and the community.
Personally, I was a first-genstudent Before first-gen really
was a thing.
I worked my way through collegewith multiple work-study jobs
and found that I really lovedbeing in the college environment
.
And once I realized that therewere other jobs besides faculty
members that happen on a collegecampus, I decided that I wanted
(10:35):
to share my experience and helpothers get the most out of
their experience.
So, like most people who are instudent service types of roles,
I went to college and justnever left.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
I know exactly what that's like.
I'm still working in college,loved college and then it was
like, hey, I could do this for aliving Awesome, thank you,
wendy and Jennifer.
You're up next.
Speaker 6 (11:02):
Yes, good morning.
It's humbling and exciting tobe here.
I am Dr Jennifer Lukensutton,first-generation college
graduate from a very smallborder town in the southern tip
of Texas, and I am also veryproud and honored to share that
I am a TRIO success story.
So I was in the upper-boundTRIO program in high school,
(11:26):
then I was in the StudentSupport Services program in
college.
So had it not been for thoseprograms, my life's trajectory
would have changed and so much.
Like some of the stories you'veheard here, I was first-gen but
didn't know it.
But because of the region ofthe country where I grew up and
the Upward Bound program, I knewthat I needed more tools in my
(11:49):
tool belt to go to college andbe successful.
It was actually aftergraduating and understanding
this term first gen that Iidentified with it.
I just knew that I wasdifferent and needed something
to help me do better in college,because I was the first to go
to a four-year institution andthen therefore changed my family
(12:11):
tree.
So that's about me and then myexperience.
I'm new to the First Gen Forwardfamily to this team.
I joined three and a halfmonths ago.
Like Catherine, we startedtogether and that comes after
having a 23-year career at apublic institution in Texas
where I worked primarily in theTRIO student support services
(12:34):
space.
I worked in TRIO programs.
It's one of those things thatas you become a courageous
servant in that space andserving others, you stick with
it.
I also, in my portfolio, havethe honor of helping our Success
, which is now First Gen,forward to the institution I
(13:12):
worked at and helping usher inthe change and getting them
signed up in that organizationas well.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Awesome, this is fantastic.
I have a feeling that, if wewanted to, this podcast could go
several hours, but we will tryto keep it within like the 45
minutes or an hour or so.
Thank you so much for allsharing that and again for
joining me today.
There was this big change rightfrom the center from
first-generation student successto now first-gen forward so
(13:37):
folks might not know that, so Iwant to point that out first
that you are the center forfirst-gen student success, now
called first-gen forward.
Know that, so I want to pointthat out first that you are the
Center for First Gen StudentSuccess, now called First Gen
Forward.
What is it that you do?
Like?
How is somebody like me goingto be helped by First Gen
Forward, by whatever that lookslike membership, or paying
(13:58):
attention to the website, liketalk?
Some of you tell me about thata little bit.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
I want you to share a bit about the center and First
Generation Forward.
So I think many of us were drawnto the work with what's known
as the Center for FirstGeneration Student Success
because of it really being thefirst and the premier space to
(14:26):
find first-generation studentsupport across the country.
I know for me, when I wasinstitution-based, I found
myself frequently going to theCenter for First-Generation
Student Success for resources,for research, for support for
best practices on how to notonly build first-generation
(14:48):
student support efforts at myinstitution but to also see what
was happening across thecountry in supporting
first-generation students.
So the center, which, like Isaid, formerly known as Center
for First-Generation StudentSuccess first and Forward, now
became its own nonprofitorganization over this past
summer, so in summer of 2024.
(15:09):
And although our name haschanged, really our mission to
support those who are supportingfirst-gen students has not
changed, and so, like I said,it's a privilege to have the
opportunity to serve in thisrole and to really get a chance
to see and observe those trendsbut also be an advocate and a
(15:30):
voice for the practitioners thatare doing the work on their
college campuses.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Anybody want to add anything to that?
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Yes, I think I'll also chime in here, too, about
First Gen Forward.
Some other offerings that we doprovide, like the resources
that Ashley mentioned, couldcome in the form of our journal,
the Journal for FirstGeneration Student Success.
It may come from the blog postthat we post on our website as
(16:03):
well.
It also may come through thedifferent workshops that we
offer and e-modules, so we havea new series of learning
e-modules for individuals thatare part of our network of
programs involvement and forthose institutions that are
seeking to advance the work thatthey do to support first-gen
(16:24):
students to think about how toinstitutionalize first-gen on
their campuses.
We do have, I guess you couldsay a phased program for lack of
a better word to describe itwhere institutions could apply
to become a network leader,where they're actually getting
some individualized support,also taking some diagnostic
(16:49):
tools that we utilize andincorporate it into the work.
So a lot of those conversationsbecome really strategic and
also led by those of us who arehere as the expert guys with our
institution.
So very, very individualizedwork to think critically about
the work on their campuses and,again, how to scale up the
(17:11):
services, because we know welove our trio but sometimes we
need to reach those otherstudents that are not being
served and thinking about how toidentify them.
And the next stage for thoseinstitutions that are really
like kind of moving the workforward, going above and beyond,
like they are those nationalleaders in first-gen work, we do
(17:33):
have an opportunity for them toapply, to become a part of our
champion, our network championphase, where they are really
helping now to kind ofcontribute back to the work and
also contributing to the modules, contributing to the to the
work and also contributing tothe modules, contributing to the
workshops, being panelists,contributing to the literature
and then also helping us toreally think through and again
(17:54):
continue to help support theirfirst year students and further
institutionalize the work ontheir campus.
And I think I may be capturedat all, but we have a robust
website and a new website comingup.
So a lot of that informationshameless plug for the website
for where all of these piecesare housed really, but that kind
(18:18):
of, I believe, gives anoverview really comes from the
other offerings in addition tothis really great network that's
supporting all of ourinstitutions across the country.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Yeah, and I think both of you pointed out so many
great things.
I mean, there's the kind ofdo-it-yourself.
I need some information.
I'm going to head to the FirstGen Forward website and I can
just see there's just a wealthof knowledge there from I want
to call them abstract, butthat's not the word.
I'm looking for the annotatedbibliography.
(18:51):
There is research and landscapeanalysis there.
You are absolutely correct,yeah.
And then there's the current.
There's the blog posts wherepeople are talking about what it
is they're doing.
There's just so much goodinformation there, as well as
information about the upcomingconference, which we can plug
later, but it's in June.
It's the student successconference.
You should all want to go aslisteners.
(19:13):
It's awesome and there's aspecific track for first-gen
folks.
But that's not a shameless plug.
I have no shame plugging that.
So, as we're talking about allthe things that you're doing and
all the things going on atFirstGen Forward, there are
trends that are coming up forfirst-generation students, based
(19:34):
on just things that are goingon in the United States, based
on the new administration comingin.
Just all kinds of things arehappening.
So can you talk to me a littlebit about, like, what are you
seeing?
What are you getting ready forand maybe giving us I don't know
like a heads up?
What can we do and what can welook forward to or maybe not
(19:57):
look forward to would be theright word, but what can we do
at our institutions to help ourfirst-gen students?
Speaker 5 (20:07):
And about that.
One of the things that we areseeing nationally is not only a
focus on retention andcompletion, but also
highlighting belonging as one ofthose key metrics, and the
challenge with that, of course,is measuring belonging and
(20:27):
defining what belonging means toeach institution.
So those are the things that weare talking about with
institutions what do you mean bybelonging, and how does that
support your particularcommunity and how does that
support your retention andcompletion as a guiding goal?
So that's something that isreally coming up in conversation
(20:50):
much more frequently.
And then, on the other end ofthe spectrum is not only career
preparation but post-completionpreparation in a very holistic
way.
Not only are we talking aboutcareer inventories, internships,
interviews, resumes, but alsograduate schools and longer-term
(21:12):
career planning, but clothingclosets, funds for travel, for
interview preparation, so reallytaking a look at what happens
after they leave us and in a waythat's very, very supportive
and really exciting for thestudents.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Yeah, that's fabulous , Catherine.
I know you wanted to saysomething.
And then Jennifer.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
I saw Jennifer, I didn't want to step on too much,
I just wanted to.
Wendy brought up a lot ofreally good points and I think a
lot of that boils down to that,especially in higher ed.
Right now we're at a reallycritical moment in discussing
and really pushing to theforefront how data informed
decision making in highereducation can put us on the path
to success and I think one ofWendy touched on it a lot with
(21:59):
specific examples and belongingand career and post-degree
readiness.
And I think one of the mostpowerful aspects of data and how
we use data specifically is howit challenges those assumptions
and reveals where institutionalbarriers, specifically that
might not be promoting belongingand not student capability,
impacts success for first-genstudents.
(22:20):
So an example that I always usethat comes to the forefront,
which is student parents, whoare predominantly first-gen
students.
They maintain an average GPA of3.3 out of 4, and that's
compared to about 2.8 for theirnon-parenting peers, but they
are 10 times less likely tograduate.
So statistics like that reallyillustrate how traditional
(22:41):
deficit-based thinking fails ourstudents and when we can expand
lenses that lens.
To look at first-generationstudents broadly, we see really
similar patterns whereinstitutional structures, not
student ability, often createbarriers.
We had one institution whoanalyzed evening academic
support services and theydiscovered that while evening
(23:04):
hours had lower total headcount,students using those services
had significantly higher coursecompletion rates.
So first-generation studentswho access services even once
were 20% more likely to persistto the next term and many
students accessing especially incommunity colleges in two years
were working more than 20 hoursper week while maintaining
(23:24):
strong GPAs.
So when we think about that, weneed that data to drive those
decision-makings because wemight just be assuming students
aren't using evening hours, thatscrap it, and then you see the
persistence and the retentiondata go down the next term and
you might be left scratchingyour head thinking why.
And it doesn't just driveinstitutional change, it's
(23:47):
really transforming nationalpolicy conversations as well.
I think when we see multipleinstitutions share similar
findings like that, it createsmomentum for change.
We've seen federal policyshifts around FAFSA
simplification.
Now I know FAFSA is a hot topicright now, based on the last
year or so, but a lot of thechanges, while they were not
(24:08):
ruled out beautifully, came fromdata showing how verification
requirements disproportionatelyimpacted first-gen students and
a lot of state performance.
Funding models are also beingredesigned to account for
institutions that serve highpopulations of first-gen
students.
So especially now, I mean Iwill always say in history it
always should have been at theforefront, but I think this is
(24:30):
an especially important time inhigher education in the country
to keep that at the forefront ofchange and thinking about how
you can best support yourfirst-gen students.
I'll turn it over to John.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
I love that.
Thank you.
Speaker 6 (24:45):
I want to echo what my colleagues have said.
I'm trying to think like okay,what haven't they said that I
can add to the conversation, andI think what I'll bring in is
borrowing a framework from whatI know is very popular in
driving a lot of the Hispanicserving institution work, and
it's this concept of not justbeing enrolling of students.
(25:06):
Now, specifically because ofthe context, it's Hispanic
enrolling because that, once aninstitution is designated as an
HSI, there is access to federalfunding dollars, currently from
the US Department of Education,and that helps strengthen
infrastructure in a lot of thesecampuses.
(25:27):
It helps bring in programmingand support, not to serve what
is mistakenly understood asHispanic students, but all
students.
But because of the Hispanicstudent enrollment, there is
access to these funds, and Ijust wanted to make a clarifying
point.
But there's this framework ofgoing from an enrolling
institution to a serving.
(25:48):
Well, now, instead of justserving populations, we need
them to thrive, and so the fieldis challenging what is
thrivingness?
And so that has to do with notonly graduating them, but
employability.
What careers are they goinginto?
Graduating them, butemployability, what careers are
(26:09):
they going into?
Students have been promised thathigher education leads to
better paying jobs.
So are they attaining thesehigher paying jobs?
Yes, you have your entry leveljobs, but are they on career
trajectories that are going toreally change the economics,
change the system?
And so that is much discussion.
That's happening.
I know it's been going on foryears in the Hispanic serving
(26:30):
space, but I also see ithappening in the first
generation space as well, cominginto first gen forward, where
students and practitioners,faculty you know everybody who's
on the ground in the day-to-dayinteractions of students are
really encouraging students tokeep going forward.
And a lot of that does come backto what's been said earlier,
(26:52):
which is this assets-basedapproach.
Okay, so, in higher educationwe've talked about assets-based
language.
A lot of us look to the Cliftonand StrengthsQuest for that,
but there's also assets-basedlanguage in the communications
that an institution sends out.
Usually it's very positive,very warm, very friendly on the
front end, to admit.
(27:13):
But what does communicationslook like throughout a student's
life cycle and how can itcontinue to be assets-based?
How are staff and facultytalking as they interact with
students on a daily basis?
And so I just wanted to addthat to the field so that way
people can reflect on what theirday-to-day influences are,
because sometimes it's hard tofigure out.
(27:35):
Where can I start?
How can I start to be a changeagent?
And so finding and buildingrelationships with others on
campus is one way, but also justreflecting on practices.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
And Jennifer, you made a valid point that I just
wanted to reiterate that how wecommunicate with our first
generation students is ofimportance.
And you know, being in highereducation, we have a lot of
jargon, a lot.
We love an acronym, and so weare just so into it and using it
regularly.
(28:09):
We often forget that we'retalking to students and families
or guardians or those peergroups that may not understand
that language.
So sometimes it's not reallywhat we say, but sometimes it's
how we say it or how we presentit.
I do think it is reallyimportant that we be mindful in
our interactions First-genstudents.
(28:32):
I have found again I'm comingfrom the state of Kentucky we
have a lot of rural students,but relationships are key.
Trust is key for many of theseindividuals and if that feels
like it's missing or I can'tunderstand, or I feel like I'm
being intimidated, or it kind ofprevents those relationships
(28:55):
from being built, allowing forsome consistent communications
and conversations.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
And beautifully said, martina.
I just wanted to follow up witha quick thing too.
Like, I think communication isgreat and representation goes
right along with that too.
Goes right along with that tooIn our intros.
You've heard so many of mywonderful colleagues say that
they didn't even recognize thatthey were first gen until often
after they had their degrees,and that is something that in
communicating that to studentswe need to communicate, that
(29:22):
that is something to becelebrated, to be identified
with that, and that comesthrough senior professors,
senior administrators beingrepresented and having those
badges and wearing them proudly,having that identification be a
really systemic indicator ofpride and celebration.
I think that goes right alongwith what Martina and Jennifer
(29:47):
just said so beautifully.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Thank you, jen, thank you, thank you, catherine.
Thank you, Catherine, foracknowledging that and again, I
think, having that livedexperience as a first-gen
student, sometimes I do forgetabout that.
I tell others and share theimportance, but sometimes I even
forget it myself.
(30:09):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
Ashley forget it myself.
Thank you, ashley.
I was just going to say that Ithink one of the other pieces
that kind of ties all thesethings together is just the
changing landscape of higher edas we think about, for many of
this.
Many states are starting toanticipate the enrollment cliff
that is happening in higher ed,that will be happening in higher
ed, and so even just thinkingabout how institutions one
(30:36):
institution that I work withclosely as an expert guide
recently went through a fullrestructuring at their
institution in terms of theirfunding model and what programs
are getting funding and who'sbeing supported and I think all
of that ties back to whatCatherine said beautifully about
needing that data-informeddecision-making to understand
(30:58):
and see what the impact of thiswork is.
We always talk about howsupporting first-generation
students kind of began as, ohyou know, we should support
first-gen students why wouldn'twe want those students?
But it's quickly transitioninginto okay.
We need to thoughtfully retainand intentionally retain these
students.
We need these students tograduate, and so being able to
(31:22):
understand where thoseopportunity gaps are at your
institution through your dataand then also using that
information to anticipate theenrollment cliff that is
happening, that will behappening across our country, is
also, I think, something thatI'm starting to see more at the
forefront of people's minds.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Yeah, I think that's such a good point.
You know the enrollment cliff.
I also wonder like, are welooking?
Do we just need to look atstudents differently and who
could be a student?
And it's not really anenrollment cliff, it's only an
enrollment cliff for those wetraditionally think of as
college-bound students, and dowe just need to broaden our
(32:02):
perspective a little bit?
I love all those points too.
I think that assets-basedlanguage is important in that if
we use that language for ourfirst-gen students, we also use
that for all of our students.
And in serving first-gen, wereally appreciate, lift up and
empower all of our students oncampus.
(32:24):
Same with the data.
You know, if we're breakingbarriers for the first-gen
students, we're doing it for allof our students and I think
that's like an additionalsuperpower that maybe we have
working with first-gen students.
We're doing it for all of ourstudents.
And I think that's like anadditional superpower that maybe
we have working with first-genstudents is to look at the
institution as a whole and saywhat's not serving our first-gen
students?
But it's probably not servingany of our students and how can
(32:46):
we fix that.
So I really appreciate it and Itook some notes, because some
of these things are great.
Also, I've been in highereducation for so long.
I realized that 2025 is my 40thyear working in higher ed.
So, like I started when I wasfive.
So you know, just so you know.
But it really was.
(33:07):
At first it was all aboutaccess and getting students into
college Right, and you knowthat was the driver.
And then it was access andsuccess.
Like what into college, right,and you know that was the driver
.
And then it was access andsuccess.
Like what does success looklike?
And it's great that they'rehere, but how do we retain them
and how do we make sure thatthey graduate?
And now it's that thriving.
You know which is the success.
But it's also focusing on whathappens next, and that seems to
(33:30):
really be where we're headed nowis we're still working on these
other things because they'renot perfect, but we also need to
say the degree.
You know it's like for thestudents it's like I got into
college, like that's such amilestone, it's awesome.
It's like, yeah, but that'sjust chapter one.
Like what happens next?
You know, getting the degree,and now it's like, well, how do
(33:50):
we get you into the professionalcareer that you want to get
into and paid at a level that isgoing to serve you and your
family Because, as again we know, what first gen students do is
a ripple effect that then goesto their family and their
community and it's just abeautiful thing to see.
So I've just talked a long timeabout all the things that you
(34:12):
brought up, just to kind ofreiterate on those, and I really
appreciate you sharing that.
I think I mean there is so muchwe could talk more about.
But in the interest of you know, of your time, how can people
get involved like that, withFirst Gen Forward speaking with
either you or, if you want to doa bigger picture, you know how
(34:37):
can people get involved andlearn more about you all?
Speaker 4 (34:42):
I can speak a bit to how do institutions get involved
with our network.
So Martina highlighted a coupleof the phases in our overall
First Generation Forward network, but our network really starts
with what we call the networkmember phase, so institutions
that choose to engage with us ina larger community of practice.
(35:04):
So we have over 400institutions that are engaging
with us across the countrycurrently and the good news is,
if you were like, hey, theseladies sound amazing, I wanna
get involved, we haverecruitment starting for our
next class of institutions tojoin us in the network member
(35:24):
phase of the First and ForwardNetwork.
So that application will openhere in February and that
application will then close inApril.
So if you want to find out moreinformation about how to get
involved with our network, checkout our website.
That's going to be a greatplace to start the network
(35:45):
member phase.
Like I said, it's kind of theentry point into our network and
when we think aboutinstitutions that are poised and
ready to join our network,there's a couple of things that
we really want that institutionto consider, the first being
that they're ready for thatlevel of commitment, because we
do require ongoing engagementwith our network because, like I
(36:08):
said, it is a community ofpractice, and so one of the
things that I know I really lookat at an institution in
evaluating the readiness to joinour network is to understand
what pieces do they already havein place at their institution
in terms of do they have acouncil or a group to support
their work?
Do they have ongoing programsand initiatives that are
(36:32):
happening to support their work?
How is their work being tiedback to the institution's
overall priorities and strategy?
The other piece that I look atis their ability to contribute
to the community of practice andnot just take from the
community of practice.
We want these folks to also beseen as experts in their field
and in this work, and so thoseare a couple of things, like I
(36:54):
said, that we tend to considerwhen we think about institutions
joining us in that networkmember phase, because it is such
a rich community and one that alot of people find value in in
terms of growing their ownpractice, and so, like I said,
if you want to join us,application opens here in
February, we'll close in April,and so please do check us out
(37:18):
for more information about that.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Fabulous.
I would just like to add, asAshley shared, we have over 400
institutions that are part ofthis larger network.
I just want to share that thatnetwork contains not only
four-year institutions.
It also includes our two-yearcommunity and technical colleges
.
It includes, again, ourprimarily white institution.
(37:44):
Also includes our HBCUshistorically Black colleges and
universities, Hispanic serving,minority serving, so it is
public, private.
We have a wide range ofinstitutions that others can
continue to draw from and learnfrom, so I wanted to put that
(38:04):
out there, that there is anopportunity for institutions to
find themselves within thisnetwork find themselves within
this network and I'll just add,being a member of the network.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
I find it invaluable in so many different ways.
Like learning from each otheris probably the number one way
knowing that there's a communityout there of people doing this
work.
And in the New England area,you know, in our group, of
course the best group ever, no,but being in the New England
group is pretty fantastic.
But even for things like andthis might sound a little silly,
but as an introvert going toconferences, like, I know people
(38:43):
that I can connect with at theconference and some of my best
conversations that I've had arethe after the presentations or
the I won't call it after hours,but the, you know, going out
afterwards and sitting aroundwith the people who I've only
seen be this big on the screenand seeing that they're like
full-bodied people and we'rehaving just these great
(39:06):
conversations about what it iswe do.
So I can absolutely recommendgetting involved and certainly,
if anybody wants to talk aboutit to a participant, I would be
happy to answer any questions.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Awesome.
I came from the East Centralregion again, having been at the
University of Kentucky and abetter institution who was also
a part of this program and hasrecently moved into the network
champion phase.
But I too found some of ourregional community gatherings
like the best part because I wasable to pull so many different
(39:39):
nuggets, ideas, recommendationsand then think about how can I
scale them at my institution.
And, having left my institutionabout two years ago, many of
those programs that I borrowedare still in effect because they
were just great ideas and wewere just able to put our own
spin onto it.
(40:00):
So, yes, being the introvert aswell, I actually knew who I
could look for and we could planin advance to connect and have
those conversations.
So I do.
Yes, you nailed that, jen, youknow that because that was
exactly how I felt.
And, jennifer, you alsorecently came from an
institution.
I'm not sure how you felt aboutit, but I did find being a part
(40:23):
of that network really providedme some great insight and
support group and a safe spaceto throw out ideas or we're
thinking about this, what do youthink?
But it gave me a nice safespace to again pitch ideas and
get feedback, loved it.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Yep, agree, agree, 100%.
Any other things that you wantto share about how people can
get involved in FirstGen Forward?
Anyone else want to addanything to what Ashley has said
?
Speaker 6 (40:58):
I'll just add, because it kind of follows the
trajectory of the institutionthat I was at.
But if you don't know how orwhen to get started, if your
institution is ready, but maybeyou're an individual and you
want to be a change agent, startby going to the website.
Start by reading some of oure-learning modules and some of
(41:19):
just the materials that we haveon there to learn more about
this space and how to contribute.
And sometimes maybe yourinstitution isn't ready to apply
yet, but you can be an advocateand you can use a lot of our
free resources to help informyour conversations, inform any
committees that you're on tostart getting the ground moving,
and just know that change takestime.
(41:40):
It took me four years to getthe buy-in from the institution
to apply to network member andalthough I was anxious and ready
to get it done, I realized thatbecause of the change that this
was going to impact on theinstitution, it took time and it
took information, and so thatmay be a great way to get.
If you're in that place, that'sa good way to start.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
Yeah, yeah.
I like to think that sometimestiming is everything right.
Sometimes just keep asking,just keep pushing forward and
eventually the time will,everything will align and timing
will work out.
Great Martina, did you want tosay something?
Speaker 2 (42:15):
The last thing I wanted to share is that within
First and Forward we do haveopportunities where we are
hosting recruitment sessions forothers to attend and learn
about.
As Ashley mentioned, the NASPA'sannual conference will be a
space in which we'll be visitingand attending and also
exhibiting and also presenting.
So if institutions areinterested and they're going to
(42:37):
be attending NASPA's annualconference in New Orleans,
they're more than welcome tostop by and visit with us.
And we're also going to be apart of NASPA's annual student
success in higher educationconference, which is three
conferences in one.
Not only do you have theopportunity to engage in the
(42:57):
first generation student successtrack, there's also a
dismantling systemic barriersconference as well as an
assessment, planning and dataanalytics.
So three conferences, one space.
You get to flow kind of andfind and pick your path and what
you're interested in learningabout.
And that is also a space wherewe are also present as First Gen
(43:18):
Forward, whether presenting,exhibiting, but we will be out
and about and making ourselvesknown and also ready to kind of
sit down, have a chat, talkabout the work that we do and
the services that we can provide.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
Fantastic.
Well, thank you all so much forjoining me.
I have, like I said, I havepages of notes.
I love all the points that youshared and I know that you,
listening, are walking away withsome good information too,
especially about how you canfind out more that first gen
forward does.
Read their research, check outtheir website, and I will link
(43:57):
to that in the show notes so youdon't have to look look around
for it.
You can just link to the shownotes and head to the website
and I will have bios of all ofthe panelists today.
So martina, catherine, ashley,wendy, jennifer, uh, thank you
so much for joining me today.
I really appreciate it and, asyou know, if you want to reach
me, you can always reach me atJen that's J-E-N at
(44:19):
firstgenfmcom, and I would behappy to hear about any topics
that you want me to talk about.
Or if you're doing an awesomeprogram for your school and you
want to talk about what thatlooks like, I would be more than
happy to have you on thepodcast.
And you want to talk about whatthat looks like, I would be
more than happy to have you onthe podcast.
So, thank you so much and Iwill talk with you again next
(44:48):
week.
Welcome and welcome back to the First Gen FM podcast
, where we high school andcollege educators strengthen,
celebrate and supportfirst-generation college and
college-bound students.
I'm Jennifer Schoen, your host.
Please call me Jen.
I'd love it if you could leavea review and a rating for this
podcast to help other educatorsfind us.
Thank you so much for takingthe time to do that.
(00:27):
Now let's dive into this week'sepisode.
Welcome back, or welcome toFirst Gen FM.
If this is your first timelistening, I have a fantastic
group of women here with metoday from First Gen Forward and
they're going to talk about.
We're going to talk abouttrends, we're going to talk
about the things that they doand how they got involved in
(00:49):
FirstGen Forward and why they'reinterested in serving FirstGen
students, and about how you canlearn from them and get more
information.
So I'm Jen, I'm your host today, and let's get started and meet
some of these amazing women whoare here to talk with us about
First Gen Forward.
And I'm going to throw it toyou first, martina, to introduce
yourself and tell us how didyou get involved working with
(01:13):
first generation students.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Awesome.
Well, thanks, jen, for havingus here.
Excited to be here Again.
I am Martina Martin and I'mwith First Gen Forward.
I serve as the assistant vicepresident for network success
and have the pleasure of workingwith the ladies that you see
here.
This is our I guess our firstgen squad here at First Gen
Forward.
(01:35):
How did I find myself here?
Well, to be honest, I didn'tknow I was first gen until I was
about 28 years old.
I've already had a bachelor's,a master's, working on a second
master's.
Before I realized in a trainingsession that talked about
special populations of students,student athletes, veterans and
(01:55):
then first gen.
That was my light bulb moment.
Never pieced it together, onlysaw myself as a low income
student who was a part of a triotype program, but I thought it
was because I was low income.
My first part of my career wasworking in athletics, academic
advising, and then I saw a jobposting at an institution that
(02:17):
was with first gen students andI thought, and I thought, that's
(02:40):
me.
I work with special populations, why not apply?
And so, since 2012, I've beenworking specifically with first
generation student.
Correct me, we started on thesame day that we started working
with first and fourth, so rightthere at the two door mark, I
am a proud first generationstudent.
As I said, didn't realize it,but once I discovered that, then
that's what kind of drew me in,to being able to help, as I
(03:03):
jokingly say, sometimes, theother Martinez across the
campuses and across the countryas well.
So a little bit about me.
We have a lot of others.
So I believe, catherine, I'mgoing to turn it over to you,
thank you.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Thank you so much, martina, and thank you so much,
jen for having us on thispodcast so exciting.
So I'm Catherine Johnson.
I am the data expert guide atFirst Gen Forward and I have
been here for three and a halfmonths, I believe.
So I'm still a little bit of anewbie in learning the ropes,
but I'm trying to dive inheadfirst and absorb as much as
(03:39):
I can and do as much work as Ican in this field.
I have a little bit of adifferent story.
I come from a family with a verylong history of college-going
tradition.
But I grew up in a small townin the foothills of the northern
Appalachians where only about10% to 15% of adults have
post-secondary degrees.
(03:59):
But I grew up with parents whoreally encouraged us to examine
our educational privilege,especially within our own
community, and they were bothalso very heavily involved in
sectors of service.
My mom was a professor and thenlater admin administrator at
our local community college andmy dad worked in public interest
law.
So I really was fortunate togrow up with an understanding of
(04:22):
what the power of a degree cando, and not just for individuals
but also for families and forgenerations.
But I really thought throughhigh school and college that I
was going to go completelydifferent direction.
I've had my eyes on ForeignService, un, international Aid
and when I was looking forpositions out of college the
(04:43):
economy said no, that's not yourpath, um.
And a job opened up in higher edas an academic advisor at
university of Maryland,specifically for military and
veteran students.
And that hooked me, um.
It hooked me into higher ed.
It um that frontline service ofworking with, honestly, a lot
of students who reminded me ofthe folks that I grew up with.
(05:03):
Um, because there huge overlapwith first-gen and military and
veteran students.
And from then on I was hookedin working in equity.
In higher ed I moved to acouple of institutions around
the DC area, started in studentservices, academic advising,
then moved over to admissionsand then realized that we could
(05:24):
be doing a lot more withconnecting data to making
systems and work better withinhigher ed.
So I moved into institutionaleffectiveness a little bit For a
first time forward.
I was working with anorganization who did a lot to
help what you know it's aplurality of our students in
(05:49):
higher ed right now across thatfinish line, that degree.
So that's how I ended up here.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Awesome, thank you.
Thank you, catherine.
Okay, ashley, you're up next.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Hi everyone.
It's so great to be on the pod.
Thanks for the invite.
Jen Ashley Cassini-Young and Iserve as the Associate Director
for Expert Guidance withFirstGen Forward and I have been
with FirstGen Forward actuallyjust this past week for three
official years.
So prior to this I had theprivilege of working really
(06:21):
closely and getting to know Jen,getting to know you, jen
through my work as the AssociateDirector for Network Engagement
, and I oversaw institutionsthat had joined us in what we
call the first phase of ourjourney.
So I'm sure we'll talk to you alittle bit more about that
later.
Prior to coming to FirstGenForward, I was institution based
(06:43):
at the University ofNebraska-Lincoln.
So for anyone listening, go BigRed, go Huskers.
I am also a proud First Gencollege graduate that didn't
realize they were a First Geneither until I was in my
master's program for highereducation administration at the
University of Missouri-St Louis.
It was there that kind of allthe pieces came together where I
(07:06):
realized, oh, there were thingsI didn't know or experiences
that I wasn't aware of, and itwasn't, to Martina's point, it
wasn't because I was low incomeor from a super small town.
Some of it had to do with thefact that I am a
first-generation college studentand so since then I've really
made it my career focus to workwith access programs and equity
(07:26):
programs.
So when I was at the Universityof Nebraska-Lincoln, I was
assistant director for theWilliam H Thompson Scholars
Program, which is a scholarshipprogram, a comprehensive college
transition program, really, forstudents who are supported by
the Susan Thompson BuffettFoundation.
And then, while I was with theThompson Scholars, I was asked
(07:50):
to take on an additionalappointment and to serve as the
coordinator for first generationinitiatives and efforts at the
University of Nebraska-Lincoln.
So if you do the math, yes,that was a 1.25%.
So if you do the math, yes,that was a 1.25%, 125%
appointment at the University ofNebraska-Lincoln.
(08:11):
So, coming to First and Forward,I always joke that it's great
to just have one job, which islovely, but I really, really
appreciated the work that I gotto do at the University of
Nebraska overseeing firstgeneration initiatives with Dr
Amy Goodburn, and in that role Iserved as the chair for First
Generation Nebraska, which istheir advisory board for first
(08:33):
generation efforts.
I also served as a contact, aprimary contact, and a
facilitator for the Midwestregional community, which is how
I really came to know First GenForward, when it was known as
the Center for First GenerationStudent Success.
So well, last thing I'll shareis that my claim to fame is that
(08:56):
I am from a very, very smalltown in Nebraska.
So if you look at the 2000census, you'll see that it was
359 people and 1.4% Asian, andthat was me, my brother and my
sister.
So that's my claim to fame.
So if you ever find yourself inPlatt Center, nebraska, and you
say that you know Ashley Casina, everyone will know who you're
(09:18):
talking about.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
All right, I love that.
I love that.
That's an awesome littlefactoid to know All right, wendy
, you're up.
Speaker 5 (09:31):
Very happy to be here today.
My name is Wendy Beasley and Ihave the pleasure of serving as
the Director of Expert Guidancewith First Gen Forward.
Professionally, I've spent morethan 25 years in higher
education, most of which havebeen in the community college
space.
By complete accident, I took a10-month temporary position at a
(09:51):
community college and 22 yearslater retired from that position
, having worked in mostdepartments at the institution,
having just fallen in love withthe diversity of students, the
range of programming and the wayin which the community college
experience really transformsstudents' lives, families' lives
(10:13):
and the community.
Personally, I was a first-genstudent Before first-gen really
was a thing.
I worked my way through collegewith multiple work-study jobs
and found that I really lovedbeing in the college environment
.
And once I realized that therewere other jobs besides faculty
members that happen on a collegecampus, I decided that I wanted
(10:35):
to share my experience and helpothers get the most out of
their experience.
So, like most people who are instudent service types of roles,
I went to college and justnever left.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
I know exactly what that's like.
I'm still working in college,loved college and then it was
like, hey, I could do this for aliving Awesome, thank you,
wendy and Jennifer.
You're up next.
Speaker 6 (11:02):
Yes, good morning.
It's humbling and exciting tobe here.
I am Dr Jennifer Lukensutton,first-generation college
graduate from a very smallborder town in the southern tip
of Texas, and I am also veryproud and honored to share that
I am a TRIO success story.
So I was in the upper-boundTRIO program in high school,
(11:26):
then I was in the StudentSupport Services program in
college.
So had it not been for thoseprograms, my life's trajectory
would have changed and so much.
Like some of the stories you'veheard here, I was first-gen but
didn't know it.
But because of the region ofthe country where I grew up and
the Upward Bound program, I knewthat I needed more tools in my
(11:49):
tool belt to go to college andbe successful.
It was actually aftergraduating and understanding
this term first gen that Iidentified with it.
I just knew that I wasdifferent and needed something
to help me do better in college,because I was the first to go
to a four-year institution andthen therefore changed my family
(12:11):
tree.
So that's about me and then myexperience.
I'm new to the First Gen Forwardfamily to this team.
I joined three and a halfmonths ago.
Like Catherine, we startedtogether and that comes after
having a 23-year career at apublic institution in Texas
where I worked primarily in theTRIO student support services
(12:34):
space.
I worked in TRIO programs.
It's one of those things thatas you become a courageous
servant in that space andserving others, you stick with
it.
I also, in my portfolio, havethe honor of helping our Success
, which is now First Gen,forward to the institution I
(13:12):
worked at and helping usher inthe change and getting them
signed up in that organizationas well.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Awesome, this is fantastic.
I have a feeling that, if wewanted to, this podcast could go
several hours, but we will tryto keep it within like the 45
minutes or an hour or so.
Thank you so much for allsharing that and again for
joining me today.
There was this big change rightfrom the center from
first-generation student successto now first-gen forward so
(13:37):
folks might not know that, so Iwant to point that out first
that you are the center forfirst-gen student success, now
called first-gen forward.
Know that, so I want to pointthat out first that you are the
Center for First Gen StudentSuccess, now called First Gen
Forward.
What is it that you do?
Like?
How is somebody like me goingto be helped by First Gen
Forward, by whatever that lookslike membership, or paying
(13:58):
attention to the website, liketalk?
Some of you tell me about thata little bit.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
I want you to share a bit about the center and First
Generation Forward.
So I think many of us were drawnto the work with what's known
as the Center for FirstGeneration Student Success
because of it really being thefirst and the premier space to
(14:26):
find first-generation studentsupport across the country.
I know for me, when I wasinstitution-based, I found
myself frequently going to theCenter for First-Generation
Student Success for resources,for research, for support for
best practices on how to notonly build first-generation
(14:48):
student support efforts at myinstitution but to also see what
was happening across thecountry in supporting
first-generation students.
So the center, which, like Isaid, formerly known as Center
for First-Generation StudentSuccess first and Forward, now
became its own nonprofitorganization over this past
summer, so in summer of 2024.
(15:09):
And although our name haschanged, really our mission to
support those who are supportingfirst-gen students has not
changed, and so, like I said,it's a privilege to have the
opportunity to serve in thisrole and to really get a chance
to see and observe those trendsbut also be an advocate and a
(15:30):
voice for the practitioners thatare doing the work on their
college campuses.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Anybody want to add anything to that?
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Yes, I think I'll also chime in here, too, about
First Gen Forward.
Some other offerings that we doprovide, like the resources
that Ashley mentioned, couldcome in the form of our journal,
the Journal for FirstGeneration Student Success.
It may come from the blog postthat we post on our website as
(16:03):
well.
It also may come through thedifferent workshops that we
offer and e-modules, so we havea new series of learning
e-modules for individuals thatare part of our network of
programs involvement and forthose institutions that are
seeking to advance the work thatthey do to support first-gen
(16:24):
students to think about how toinstitutionalize first-gen on
their campuses.
We do have, I guess you couldsay a phased program for lack of
a better word to describe itwhere institutions could apply
to become a network leader,where they're actually getting
some individualized support,also taking some diagnostic
(16:49):
tools that we utilize andincorporate it into the work.
So a lot of those conversationsbecome really strategic and
also led by those of us who arehere as the expert guys with our
institution.
So very, very individualizedwork to think critically about
the work on their campuses and,again, how to scale up the
(17:11):
services, because we know welove our trio but sometimes we
need to reach those otherstudents that are not being
served and thinking about how toidentify them.
And the next stage for thoseinstitutions that are really
like kind of moving the workforward, going above and beyond,
like they are those nationalleaders in first-gen work, we do
(17:33):
have an opportunity for them toapply, to become a part of our
champion, our network championphase, where they are really
helping now to kind ofcontribute back to the work and
also contributing to the modules, contributing to the to the
work and also contributing tothe modules, contributing to the
workshops, being panelists,contributing to the literature
and then also helping us toreally think through and again
(17:54):
continue to help support theirfirst year students and further
institutionalize the work ontheir campus.
And I think I may be capturedat all, but we have a robust
website and a new website comingup.
So a lot of that informationshameless plug for the website
for where all of these piecesare housed really, but that kind
(18:18):
of, I believe, gives anoverview really comes from the
other offerings in addition tothis really great network that's
supporting all of ourinstitutions across the country.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Yeah, and I think both of you pointed out so many
great things.
I mean, there's the kind ofdo-it-yourself.
I need some information.
I'm going to head to the FirstGen Forward website and I can
just see there's just a wealthof knowledge there from I want
to call them abstract, butthat's not the word.
I'm looking for the annotatedbibliography.
(18:51):
There is research and landscapeanalysis there.
You are absolutely correct,yeah.
And then there's the current.
There's the blog posts wherepeople are talking about what it
is they're doing.
There's just so much goodinformation there, as well as
information about the upcomingconference, which we can plug
later, but it's in June.
It's the student successconference.
You should all want to go aslisteners.
(19:13):
It's awesome and there's aspecific track for first-gen
folks.
But that's not a shameless plug.
I have no shame plugging that.
So, as we're talking about allthe things that you're doing and
all the things going on atFirstGen Forward, there are
trends that are coming up forfirst-generation students, based
(19:34):
on just things that are goingon in the United States, based
on the new administration comingin.
Just all kinds of things arehappening.
So can you talk to me a littlebit about, like, what are you
seeing?
What are you getting ready forand maybe giving us I don't know
like a heads up?
What can we do and what can welook forward to or maybe not
(19:57):
look forward to would be theright word, but what can we do
at our institutions to help ourfirst-gen students?
Speaker 5 (20:07):
And about that.
One of the things that we areseeing nationally is not only a
focus on retention andcompletion, but also
highlighting belonging as one ofthose key metrics, and the
challenge with that, of course,is measuring belonging and
(20:27):
defining what belonging means toeach institution.
So those are the things that weare talking about with
institutions what do you mean bybelonging, and how does that
support your particularcommunity and how does that
support your retention andcompletion as a guiding goal?
So that's something that isreally coming up in conversation
(20:50):
much more frequently.
And then, on the other end ofthe spectrum is not only career
preparation but post-completionpreparation in a very holistic
way.
Not only are we talking aboutcareer inventories, internships,
interviews, resumes, but alsograduate schools and longer-term
(21:12):
career planning, but clothingclosets, funds for travel, for
interview preparation, so reallytaking a look at what happens
after they leave us and in a waythat's very, very supportive
and really exciting for thestudents.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Yeah, that's fabulous , Catherine.
I know you wanted to saysomething.
And then Jennifer.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
I saw Jennifer, I didn't want to step on too much,
I just wanted to.
Wendy brought up a lot ofreally good points and I think a
lot of that boils down to that,especially in higher ed.
Right now we're at a reallycritical moment in discussing
and really pushing to theforefront how data informed
decision making in highereducation can put us on the path
to success and I think one ofWendy touched on it a lot with
(21:59):
specific examples and belongingand career and post-degree
readiness.
And I think one of the mostpowerful aspects of data and how
we use data specifically is howit challenges those assumptions
and reveals where institutionalbarriers, specifically that
might not be promoting belongingand not student capability,
impacts success for first-genstudents.
(22:20):
So an example that I always usethat comes to the forefront,
which is student parents, whoare predominantly first-gen
students.
They maintain an average GPA of3.3 out of 4, and that's
compared to about 2.8 for theirnon-parenting peers, but they
are 10 times less likely tograduate.
So statistics like that reallyillustrate how traditional
(22:41):
deficit-based thinking fails ourstudents and when we can expand
lenses that lens.
To look at first-generationstudents broadly, we see really
similar patterns whereinstitutional structures, not
student ability, often createbarriers.
We had one institution whoanalyzed evening academic
support services and theydiscovered that while evening
(23:04):
hours had lower total headcount,students using those services
had significantly higher coursecompletion rates.
So first-generation studentswho access services even once
were 20% more likely to persistto the next term and many
students accessing especially incommunity colleges in two years
were working more than 20 hoursper week while maintaining
(23:24):
strong GPAs.
So when we think about that, weneed that data to drive those
decision-makings because wemight just be assuming students
aren't using evening hours, thatscrap it, and then you see the
persistence and the retentiondata go down the next term and
you might be left scratchingyour head thinking why.
And it doesn't just driveinstitutional change, it's
(23:47):
really transforming nationalpolicy conversations as well.
I think when we see multipleinstitutions share similar
findings like that, it createsmomentum for change.
We've seen federal policyshifts around FAFSA
simplification.
Now I know FAFSA is a hot topicright now, based on the last
year or so, but a lot of thechanges, while they were not
(24:08):
ruled out beautifully, came fromdata showing how verification
requirements disproportionatelyimpacted first-gen students and
a lot of state performance.
Funding models are also beingredesigned to account for
institutions that serve highpopulations of first-gen
students.
So especially now, I mean Iwill always say in history it
always should have been at theforefront, but I think this is
(24:30):
an especially important time inhigher education in the country
to keep that at the forefront ofchange and thinking about how
you can best support yourfirst-gen students.
I'll turn it over to John.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
I love that.
Thank you.
Speaker 6 (24:45):
I want to echo what my colleagues have said.
I'm trying to think like okay,what haven't they said that I
can add to the conversation, andI think what I'll bring in is
borrowing a framework from whatI know is very popular in
driving a lot of the Hispanicserving institution work, and
it's this concept of not justbeing enrolling of students.
(25:06):
Now, specifically because ofthe context, it's Hispanic
enrolling because that, once aninstitution is designated as an
HSI, there is access to federalfunding dollars, currently from
the US Department of Education,and that helps strengthen
infrastructure in a lot of thesecampuses.
(25:27):
It helps bring in programmingand support, not to serve what
is mistakenly understood asHispanic students, but all
students.
But because of the Hispanicstudent enrollment, there is
access to these funds, and Ijust wanted to make a clarifying
point.
But there's this framework ofgoing from an enrolling
institution to a serving.
(25:48):
Well, now, instead of justserving populations, we need
them to thrive, and so the fieldis challenging what is
thrivingness?
And so that has to do with notonly graduating them, but
employability.
What careers are they goinginto?
Graduating them, butemployability, what careers are
(26:09):
they going into?
Students have been promised thathigher education leads to
better paying jobs.
So are they attaining thesehigher paying jobs?
Yes, you have your entry leveljobs, but are they on career
trajectories that are going toreally change the economics,
change the system?
And so that is much discussion.
That's happening.
I know it's been going on foryears in the Hispanic serving
(26:30):
space, but I also see ithappening in the first
generation space as well, cominginto first gen forward, where
students and practitioners,faculty you know everybody who's
on the ground in the day-to-dayinteractions of students are
really encouraging students tokeep going forward.
And a lot of that does come backto what's been said earlier,
(26:52):
which is this assets-basedapproach.
Okay, so, in higher educationwe've talked about assets-based
language.
A lot of us look to the Cliftonand StrengthsQuest for that,
but there's also assets-basedlanguage in the communications
that an institution sends out.
Usually it's very positive,very warm, very friendly on the
front end, to admit.
(27:13):
But what does communicationslook like throughout a student's
life cycle and how can itcontinue to be assets-based?
How are staff and facultytalking as they interact with
students on a daily basis?
And so I just wanted to addthat to the field so that way
people can reflect on what theirday-to-day influences are,
because sometimes it's hard tofigure out.
(27:35):
Where can I start?
How can I start to be a changeagent?
And so finding and buildingrelationships with others on
campus is one way, but also justreflecting on practices.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
And Jennifer, you made a valid point that I just
wanted to reiterate that how wecommunicate with our first
generation students is ofimportance.
And you know, being in highereducation, we have a lot of
jargon, a lot.
We love an acronym, and so weare just so into it and using it
regularly.
(28:09):
We often forget that we'retalking to students and families
or guardians or those peergroups that may not understand
that language.
So sometimes it's not reallywhat we say, but sometimes it's
how we say it or how we presentit.
I do think it is reallyimportant that we be mindful in
our interactions First-genstudents.
(28:32):
I have found again I'm comingfrom the state of Kentucky we
have a lot of rural students,but relationships are key.
Trust is key for many of theseindividuals and if that feels
like it's missing or I can'tunderstand, or I feel like I'm
being intimidated, or it kind ofprevents those relationships
(28:55):
from being built, allowing forsome consistent communications
and conversations.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
And beautifully said, martina.
I just wanted to follow up witha quick thing too.
Like, I think communication isgreat and representation goes
right along with that too.
Goes right along with that tooIn our intros.
You've heard so many of mywonderful colleagues say that
they didn't even recognize thatthey were first gen until often
after they had their degrees,and that is something that in
communicating that to studentswe need to communicate, that
(29:22):
that is something to becelebrated, to be identified
with that, and that comesthrough senior professors,
senior administrators beingrepresented and having those
badges and wearing them proudly,having that identification be a
really systemic indicator ofpride and celebration.
I think that goes right alongwith what Martina and Jennifer
(29:47):
just said so beautifully.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Thank you, jen, thank you, thank you, catherine.
Thank you, Catherine, foracknowledging that and again, I
think, having that livedexperience as a first-gen
student, sometimes I do forgetabout that.
I tell others and share theimportance, but sometimes I even
forget it myself.
(30:09):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
Ashley forget it myself.
Thank you, ashley.
I was just going to say that Ithink one of the other pieces
that kind of ties all thesethings together is just the
changing landscape of higher edas we think about, for many of
this.
Many states are starting toanticipate the enrollment cliff
that is happening in higher ed,that will be happening in higher
ed, and so even just thinkingabout how institutions one
(30:36):
institution that I work withclosely as an expert guide
recently went through a fullrestructuring at their
institution in terms of theirfunding model and what programs
are getting funding and who'sbeing supported and I think all
of that ties back to whatCatherine said beautifully about
needing that data-informeddecision-making to understand
(30:58):
and see what the impact of thiswork is.
We always talk about howsupporting first-generation
students kind of began as, ohyou know, we should support
first-gen students why wouldn'twe want those students?
But it's quickly transitioninginto okay.
We need to thoughtfully retainand intentionally retain these
students.
We need these students tograduate, and so being able to
(31:22):
understand where thoseopportunity gaps are at your
institution through your dataand then also using that
information to anticipate theenrollment cliff that is
happening, that will behappening across our country, is
also, I think, something thatI'm starting to see more at the
forefront of people's minds.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Yeah, I think that's such a good point.
You know the enrollment cliff.
I also wonder like, are welooking?
Do we just need to look atstudents differently and who
could be a student?
And it's not really anenrollment cliff, it's only an
enrollment cliff for those wetraditionally think of as
college-bound students, and dowe just need to broaden our
(32:02):
perspective a little bit?
I love all those points too.
I think that assets-basedlanguage is important in that if
we use that language for ourfirst-gen students, we also use
that for all of our students.
And in serving first-gen, wereally appreciate, lift up and
empower all of our students oncampus.
(32:24):
Same with the data.
You know, if we're breakingbarriers for the first-gen
students, we're doing it for allof our students and I think
that's like an additionalsuperpower that maybe we have
working with first-gen students.
We're doing it for all of ourstudents.
And I think that's like anadditional superpower that maybe
we have working with first-genstudents is to look at the
institution as a whole and saywhat's not serving our first-gen
students?
But it's probably not servingany of our students and how can
(32:46):
we fix that.
So I really appreciate it and Itook some notes, because some
of these things are great.
Also, I've been in highereducation for so long.
I realized that 2025 is my 40thyear working in higher ed.
So, like I started when I wasfive.
So you know, just so you know.
But it really was.
(33:07):
At first it was all aboutaccess and getting students into
college Right, and you knowthat was the driver.
And then it was access andsuccess.
Like what into college, right,and you know that was the driver
.
And then it was access andsuccess.
Like what does success looklike?
And it's great that they'rehere, but how do we retain them
and how do we make sure thatthey graduate?
And now it's that thriving.
You know which is the success.
But it's also focusing on whathappens next, and that seems to
(33:30):
really be where we're headed nowis we're still working on these
other things because they'renot perfect, but we also need to
say the degree.
You know it's like for thestudents it's like I got into
college, like that's such amilestone, it's awesome.
It's like, yeah, but that'sjust chapter one.
Like what happens next?
You know, getting the degree,and now it's like, well, how do
(33:50):
we get you into the professionalcareer that you want to get
into and paid at a level that isgoing to serve you and your
family Because, as again we know, what first gen students do is
a ripple effect that then goesto their family and their
community and it's just abeautiful thing to see.
So I've just talked a long timeabout all the things that you
(34:12):
brought up, just to kind ofreiterate on those, and I really
appreciate you sharing that.
I think I mean there is so muchwe could talk more about.
But in the interest of you know, of your time, how can people
get involved like that, withFirst Gen Forward speaking with
either you or, if you want to doa bigger picture, you know how
(34:37):
can people get involved andlearn more about you all?
Speaker 4 (34:42):
I can speak a bit to how do institutions get involved
with our network.
So Martina highlighted a coupleof the phases in our overall
First Generation Forward network, but our network really starts
with what we call the networkmember phase, so institutions
that choose to engage with us ina larger community of practice.
(35:04):
So we have over 400institutions that are engaging
with us across the countrycurrently and the good news is,
if you were like, hey, theseladies sound amazing, I wanna
get involved, we haverecruitment starting for our
next class of institutions tojoin us in the network member
(35:24):
phase of the First and ForwardNetwork.
So that application will openhere in February and that
application will then close inApril.
So if you want to find out moreinformation about how to get
involved with our network, checkout our website.
That's going to be a greatplace to start the network
(35:45):
member phase.
Like I said, it's kind of theentry point into our network and
when we think aboutinstitutions that are poised and
ready to join our network,there's a couple of things that
we really want that institutionto consider, the first being
that they're ready for thatlevel of commitment, because we
do require ongoing engagementwith our network because, like I
(36:08):
said, it is a community ofpractice, and so one of the
things that I know I really lookat at an institution in
evaluating the readiness to joinour network is to understand
what pieces do they already havein place at their institution
in terms of do they have acouncil or a group to support
their work?
Do they have ongoing programsand initiatives that are
(36:32):
happening to support their work?
How is their work being tiedback to the institution's
overall priorities and strategy?
The other piece that I look atis their ability to contribute
to the community of practice andnot just take from the
community of practice.
We want these folks to also beseen as experts in their field
and in this work, and so thoseare a couple of things, like I
(36:54):
said, that we tend to considerwhen we think about institutions
joining us in that networkmember phase, because it is such
a rich community and one that alot of people find value in in
terms of growing their ownpractice, and so, like I said,
if you want to join us,application opens here in
February, we'll close in April,and so please do check us out
(37:18):
for more information about that.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Fabulous.
I would just like to add, asAshley shared, we have over 400
institutions that are part ofthis larger network.
I just want to share that thatnetwork contains not only
four-year institutions.
It also includes our two-yearcommunity and technical colleges
.
It includes, again, ourprimarily white institution.
(37:44):
Also includes our HBCUshistorically Black colleges and
universities, Hispanic serving,minority serving, so it is
public, private.
We have a wide range ofinstitutions that others can
continue to draw from and learnfrom, so I wanted to put that
(38:04):
out there, that there is anopportunity for institutions to
find themselves within thisnetwork find themselves within
this network and I'll just add,being a member of the network.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
I find it invaluable in so many different ways.
Like learning from each otheris probably the number one way
knowing that there's a communityout there of people doing this
work.
And in the New England area,you know, in our group, of
course the best group ever, no,but being in the New England
group is pretty fantastic.
But even for things like andthis might sound a little silly,
but as an introvert going toconferences, like, I know people
(38:43):
that I can connect with at theconference and some of my best
conversations that I've had arethe after the presentations or
the I won't call it after hours,but the, you know, going out
afterwards and sitting aroundwith the people who I've only
seen be this big on the screenand seeing that they're like
full-bodied people and we'rehaving just these great
(39:06):
conversations about what it iswe do.
So I can absolutely recommendgetting involved and certainly,
if anybody wants to talk aboutit to a participant, I would be
happy to answer any questions.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Awesome.
I came from the East Centralregion again, having been at the
University of Kentucky and abetter institution who was also
a part of this program and hasrecently moved into the network
champion phase.
But I too found some of ourregional community gatherings
like the best part because I wasable to pull so many different
(39:39):
nuggets, ideas, recommendationsand then think about how can I
scale them at my institution.
And, having left my institutionabout two years ago, many of
those programs that I borrowedare still in effect because they
were just great ideas and wewere just able to put our own
spin onto it.
(40:00):
So, yes, being the introvert aswell, I actually knew who I
could look for and we could planin advance to connect and have
those conversations.
So I do.
Yes, you nailed that, jen, youknow that because that was
exactly how I felt.
And, jennifer, you alsorecently came from an
institution.
I'm not sure how you felt aboutit, but I did find being a part
(40:23):
of that network really providedme some great insight and
support group and a safe spaceto throw out ideas or we're
thinking about this, what do youthink?
But it gave me a nice safespace to again pitch ideas and
get feedback, loved it.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Yep, agree, agree, 100%.
Any other things that you wantto share about how people can
get involved in FirstGen Forward?
Anyone else want to addanything to what Ashley has said
?
Speaker 6 (40:58):
I'll just add, because it kind of follows the
trajectory of the institutionthat I was at.
But if you don't know how orwhen to get started, if your
institution is ready, but maybeyou're an individual and you
want to be a change agent, startby going to the website.
Start by reading some of oure-learning modules and some of
(41:19):
just the materials that we haveon there to learn more about
this space and how to contribute.
And sometimes maybe yourinstitution isn't ready to apply
yet, but you can be an advocateand you can use a lot of our
free resources to help informyour conversations, inform any
committees that you're on tostart getting the ground moving,
and just know that change takestime.
(41:40):
It took me four years to getthe buy-in from the institution
to apply to network member andalthough I was anxious and ready
to get it done, I realized thatbecause of the change that this
was going to impact on theinstitution, it took time and it
took information, and so thatmay be a great way to get.
If you're in that place, that'sa good way to start.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
Yeah, yeah.
I like to think that sometimestiming is everything right.
Sometimes just keep asking,just keep pushing forward and
eventually the time will,everything will align and timing
will work out.
Great Martina, did you want tosay something?
Speaker 2 (42:15):
The last thing I wanted to share is that within
First and Forward we do haveopportunities where we are
hosting recruitment sessions forothers to attend and learn
about.
As Ashley mentioned, the NASPA'sannual conference will be a
space in which we'll be visitingand attending and also
exhibiting and also presenting.
So if institutions areinterested and they're going to
(42:37):
be attending NASPA's annualconference in New Orleans,
they're more than welcome tostop by and visit with us.
And we're also going to be apart of NASPA's annual student
success in higher educationconference, which is three
conferences in one.
Not only do you have theopportunity to engage in the
(42:57):
first generation student successtrack, there's also a
dismantling systemic barriersconference as well as an
assessment, planning and dataanalytics.
So three conferences, one space.
You get to flow kind of andfind and pick your path and what
you're interested in learningabout.
And that is also a space wherewe are also present as First Gen
(43:18):
Forward, whether presenting,exhibiting, but we will be out
and about and making ourselvesknown and also ready to kind of
sit down, have a chat, talkabout the work that we do and
the services that we can provide.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
Fantastic.
Well, thank you all so much forjoining me.
I have, like I said, I havepages of notes.
I love all the points that youshared and I know that you,
listening, are walking away withsome good information too,
especially about how you canfind out more that first gen
forward does.
Read their research, check outtheir website, and I will link
(43:57):
to that in the show notes so youdon't have to look look around
for it.
You can just link to the shownotes and head to the website
and I will have bios of all ofthe panelists today.
So martina, catherine, ashley,wendy, jennifer, uh, thank you
so much for joining me today.
I really appreciate it and, asyou know, if you want to reach
me, you can always reach me atJen that's J-E-N at
(44:19):
firstgenfmcom, and I would behappy to hear about any topics
that you want me to talk about.
Or if you're doing an awesomeprogram for your school and you
want to talk about what thatlooks like, I would be more than
happy to have you on thepodcast.
And you want to talk about whatthat looks like, I would be
more than happy to have you onthe podcast.
So, thank you so much and Iwill talk with you again next
(44:48):
week.
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