Discover the journey of Selena Meints, the First Generation Initiatives Coordinator at the University of Missouri, as she shares her story from being a first-generation college student to leading a first-gen initiative on campus. Selena shares her journey navigating the college experience without a traditional support system, which ignited her passion for supporting other first-gen students. She details her transition from working in disability services to creating a first-gen program from scratch at Mizzou, emphasizing the vital roles of data collection, listening tours, and securing campus-wide support.
In this episode, we explore the complexities of building and maintaining first-gen programs at a large university. Selena provides insights into collaborating with various campus units during welcome week and the strategies she’s implementing to boost first-gen student participation in high-impact practices: from applying for grants to integrating into committees, her efforts focus on bridging gaps and enhancing the sense of belonging for first-gen students at Mizzou. Learn about the significant challenges and the unique characteristics of these students, and how understanding campus culture plays a crucial role in addressing their needs.
Finally, we delve into the transitions first-gen students face as they move from college to professional life. Selena discusses the importance of lifelong support, including logistical challenges like healthcare and retirement planning. Initiatives like the Tri-Alpha Honor Society are highlighted as ways to celebrate and support first-gen achievements, fostering an inclusive environment that involves families, allies, and alumni. With plans for future growth and community engagement, Selena's vision aims at improving graduation rates and building a robust support network for first-gen students, faculty, and staff alike. Tune in to gain valuable insights and inspiration from Selena’s ambitious plans and dedication to creating a thriving first-gen community.
Selena's Bio and contact
selenameints@missouri.edu
www.linkedin.com/in/selena-meints
https://firstgeneration.missouri.edu/
First-Generation Initiatives Coordinator
University of Missouri-Columbia
Selena Meints currently serves as the newly founded First-Generation Initiatives Coordinator at University of Missouri-Columbia. The Office of First-Generation Initiatives supports, celebrates, and advocates for first-generation students and connects them to resources at Mizzou, with special emphasis in High-Impact Practices. The office mission helps to promote academic excellence and sense of belonging of First-Generation students from enrollment to graduation.
Meints also resides on several committees/appointments at the university: Chair of the First-Generation Student Success Standing Advisory Board, a Title IX and Equity Resolution hearing panelist, the Undergraduate Research Pathways Working Group and on the SAC Education Award Review Committee.
In her previous role as The Director of Student Accessibility Resources (OSAR) at William Woods University in Fulton, Missouri she was responsible for the implementation of student accommodations to create equitable access for all Undergraduate and Graduate students. Meints served as Chair of the Employee Enrichment Committee, Co-chair of the Diversity and Inclusion Committee, and
member of the CARE committee. Meints joined William Woods University a
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome and welcome back to the First Gen FM podcast
, where we high school andcollege educators strengthen,
celebrate and supportfirst-generation college and
college-bound students.
I'm Jennifer Schoen, your host.
Please call me Jen.
I'd love it if you could leavea review and a rating for this
podcast to help other educatorsfind us.
Thank you so much for takingthe time to do that.
(00:27):
Now let's dive into this week'sepisode.
In this episode, I'm talking toSelena Mainz, the First
Generation InitiativesCoordinator at the University of
Missouri, where one in fourstudents are first generation.
We'll talk about building aprogram from scratch, with data
collection and a listening tour,and then how she built support
(00:50):
across the campus.
Thanks for joining us today.
So let's jump in with SelenaMainz, who's here with me today,
and we're going to talk abouthow to start a first-gen program
at a land-grant institution,specifically at the University
of Missouri, and how Selena didit.
So, selena, thank you so muchfor joining me today.
(01:10):
Thank you for having me.
Yeah, I'm really excited totalk about this, but I always
like to start with you.
Know what was your journey?
What's the spark that got youinto higher ed, into working
with first-gen students?
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah.
So I have to mention, of course, that I'm a first generation
student myself.
I identified in myundergraduate career as a first
gen, a non-traditional student.
I got married young so we livedas a commuter about 45 minutes
away, went to a communitycollege at first and transferred
to University of IllinoisSpringfield, then transferred to
University of IllinoisSpringfield, the smaller of the
(01:48):
UI system, and took nightclasses.
So all of those identities Iwas right there with the
students experiencing things andbeing first gen has been a big
part of all of those identities.
It comes back to right.
My parents didn't attendcollege and I moved out very
young, got married, and so myparents didn't attend college
and I moved out very young, gotmarried, and so we were trying
to navigate it, working fulltime and going to college.
(02:09):
So I did not have a traditionalundergraduate experience.
So it all stems back from that.
I really wanted I learned whatis a higher education
administrator in high schoolbecause I always was the kid who
played with my dolls and was ateacher.
So I always thought, oh, youhave to be a teacher, right to
work in higher ed, in education.
(02:31):
I didn't really know, like,what higher ed meant in the
administrative and staff side ofthings.
Until really about my junioryear of high school.
I think I was talking with acounselor and like she's like
you, can, you don't have to be afaculty, right, you don't have
to be a faculty, right, youdon't have to be a teacher?
And so that's kind of whatsprung it and I was like, oh,
I'm gonna work in higher ed.
I got obsessed with college.
(02:52):
I was like learning, I'm veryself-taught and like love
research.
So I was, uh, I was kind of anerd about Ivy League statistics
acceptance rates, okay.
So like I can quote this isfrom 10 years ago by like six
percent, right with harvard atthe time, 10 years ago, their
acceptance rate.
So I became obsessed with justlooking at schools, specifically
(03:13):
the east coast I'm from iowa,okay I wanted to go anywhere out
of iowa.
So, being first gen, you knowlike I couldn't Pell eligible.
But come from a low incomebackground, I'm like, how do I
get out of here with no parentalfinancial support?
They were emotionallysupportive and I always knew I
(03:34):
was going to college.
Right, I was that straight, avery involved student, president
of every club in high school,and I was like, well, of course
I'm going to college, but where?
Club in high school.
And I was like, well, of courseI'm going to college, but where
?
And um just wanted to getanywhere out of Iowa and ended
up going to a large universityvery far away and it was not
meant for me, so moved back homeand went to community college.
(03:55):
But that is what sparked it.
Uh, I knew I was going to workin higher education.
I was disappointed that there'snot an undergrad degree
specifically for highereducation administration.
You have to wait to get yourmaster's in that.
So I did end up getting't seenby faculty and staff in my
undergrad experience and Iwasn't mentored.
(04:27):
I didn't even have an academicadvisor at one point.
Wow, really, just had to figureout myself.
But I also did have.
I was that stereotypical firstgen student who had a lot of
pride and I was like, well, I'mgoing to, like, this is going to
be my career.
So I know all about collegealready, so I'm just going to
figure it out myself.
And I really want to shake myformer self, because I should
(04:49):
have utilized the resources moreright.
I was briefly part of TRIO at acommunity college and so, like
I, I knew a little bit about theterm first gen, but that wasn't
a word that was used 10 yearsago when I was in college.
Yeah, yeah, it's.
It's relatively new, you know,thanks to the Center for
First-Gen Student Success whichis now First-Gen Forward.
(05:10):
They kind of coined the termright, it's existed for decades,
but in 2018 when they began, soI didn't know what.
I was right.
That identity wasn't used in mycollege experience and so I
worked in higher education rightout of my bachelor's.
I thankfully got a great careerworking in disability services.
(05:32):
So that's my background.
Okay, access accommodations,testing accommodations, those
sort of things.
So I've worked in thatbackground for about three to
five years and took thisposition last summer of 2023.
And University of Missouri iswe're located kind of in between
(05:54):
Kansas City and St Louis.
We're right smack that, likeliterally the most Midwest you
can be in the country.
So, um, mizzou is theland-grant state flagship of the
uh, of the state of missouri sowe're very big.
We have about 30 000 students.
(06:14):
Okay, um, that's justundergraduate, like
pre-professional graduatestudents.
I mainly work undergraduatestudents, but I saw this
position again.
It was working as the directorof disability services at a
small private university here inMissouri and then took this
position and really just told mystory during the interview
process and they really likedthat.
(06:36):
You know I can relate to thestudents and and tell them a
little bit about how I identifyas a transfer of how eligible
Hispanic woman in-gennon-traditional took online
right All the things, yeah, yeah, and so I can relate to that
specific population.
So Mizzou didn't have afirst-gen office, so I am the
(06:57):
founder of this office.
Wow so they had nothing.
So we do have great programsfor first-gen students.
I do want to make note of that.
Since we are so large, a lot ofthe schools within the
university, so there's likeSchool of Health and Science,
for example, arts and Science.
There's all kinds of differentschools.
(07:18):
So School of Business, forexample, has a Heartland
Scholars Program and that is asmall cohort of about 10
students each year, so only 40students total.
freshmen through seniors ofrural business students who are
first gen oh wow and thatprogram is run by a separate
faculty member and it is amazing, but it's only within school of
(07:39):
business.
Yeah, so mizu was like how dowe?
We have all of these greatsmall pockets of programs?
There's quite a few others, Ican list as well, but we didn't
have something targeting, alllike the big umbrella.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
So something more centralized for all students.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Yeah, of all undergraduate students, and we
have about 5,000 first-genundergraduate students Nice, so
that's a big portion and therewas no umbrella covering that.
I do want to make note of TRIOSSS program.
We have the largest TRIOprogram in the country who
serves?
670 students.
I'm very proud of our TRIOprogram and they were rebuilding
(08:19):
last year on the same time as Istarted.
They had a new director and allnew staff, and so we really
have come together because weserve similar populations.
Right, we can invite a certainnumber of first-gen students,
students registered with thedisability office and low income
, but that is only serving right, a small percentage compared to
(08:40):
the 5,000.
5,000, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I work in tandem with TRIO.
We are in the same building,the Student Success Center, with
a lot of other great um offices.
There's CASE, which is fordiversity scholars, and the
Transfer Center, the DiscoverCenter all of these great
offices who do serve similarstudents.
(09:02):
But again, there was no one whowas corralling and leading this
initiative, so I got hired inMay of 2023.
I had to launch the office justby myself, as a one-person
department.
I am still a one-persondepartment with one work-study
student, and I just utilized thepartnerships that I've met
throughout the year and a halfthat I've been there.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yeah, so, in addition to the TRIO program, who have
been some of the champions increating this?
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Yeah, so I created a 17-person board.
It's a standing advisory boardcomprised of all kinds of folks
across campus, since we're solarge with different colleges
and units within the university.
We have the Transfer Centerrepresented on our board, mcnair
Scholars, which is also anotherTRIO program, who helps
(09:53):
students get into graduateschool, specifically focused on
like undergrad research, andthen the Office for Financial
Success.
That has been one of ouramazing I call them first-gen
champions.
Alex Embry is the assistantdirector over there and we are
one of the only universities inthe country who has a specific,
(10:14):
dedicated, separate office thanfinancial aid.
So financial aid is different.
We do have a representative onmy board of financial aid, but
Office for financial success isa separate office that assists
students in budgeting.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
They do their taxes for free, like a little bit more
literacy financial literacy,yes, financial literacy
presentations, consulting withstudents on one-on-one
appointments and things likethat.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
we also have champions from the library ellis
library, main library on campus.
They hired a student successlibrarian and so she's been
great to have on my board andreally thinking kind of outside
the box of what can we do withboth of our positions and
focusing on student successefforts.
So those are some of the folksalong the trio who are on the
(11:00):
board, but I haverepresentations from advisors,
hr, all kinds of differentdepartments that you may not
think of when you think of firstgen.
I love the library, yeah, butwe try to have a unique
representation from most of themajor departments and schools on
campus.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Now, do you connect at all with admissions to kind
of find out, like as they're,like, even during orientation,
who the first gen students are,so you can start your context
right away?
How do you, how do you get intouch with them and what?
What do you do to bring them inand help students understand
that there is this there is thisplace just for them?
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Yeah, so I've worked with admissions.
One of the main things is thatis the only way that we collect
the data on who is first isthrough the admissions
application.
So working on that definition,compiling that data in our data
system, has been super helpful.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
That's how we track it in all of our back end
systems.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
I also have done recruitment events with
admissions and enrollmentmanagement.
So I've traveled to Dallas,chicago, st Louis, meeting with
incoming prospective studentswho have admitted to Mizzou and
just I'm hoping that my presencethere every year shows oh hey,
there's an office for me, right,my identity is celebrated and a
(12:20):
lot of the incoming studentsmay not again have heard of what
is the term first gen.
Right, a lot of what the workwe do is just debunking the
definition and kind ofdispelling some of the myths
behind what it means to be firstgen, and a lot of high school
students they may have heard ofit but it depends on the school
district they came from right.
(12:42):
So if you didn't have, in myexample I went to a big, large
urban high school and we had oneguidance counselor and like 600
students and unfortunately it'sjust.
If you don't have that mentorsupport and you didn't have a
parent or guardian attend afour-year university, who do you
reach out to to even understandthe terms?
And you know, I always tell theincoming students you did the
(13:05):
hardest part, you got in right.
Applying to college for mespecifically it was one of the
hardest challenges and thenfiguring out your FAFSA on top
of that and how are we going topay?
Right, you can't be there in 10with good grades if you can't
afford it, right?
So I think it does start in Kthrough 12 of teaching and um
(13:25):
Really having professionaldevelopment for the counselors.
So that is one of our goals isto work with the guidance
counselors who the schools werecruit from and really letting
them know again what is firstgen, going down to the basics,
what is the definition?
How can they explain it to theirstudents right when they're
applying to MISU, and then theyknow that our office is here for
them once they get here?
Speaker 1 (13:49):
for them once they get here.
Yeah, I think that's one of thebeauties of working at a state
school too I worked at theUniversity of Washington for
about 10 years and knowing that,like your state, is something
that the institution is focusedon, and so you can do outreach
to the schools in the state andthe guidance counselors in the
state and really connect withthem to say this is what we're
doing, this is what we offer,and the idea that if you send
(14:12):
your students to us, it's notjust like, hey, welcome, good
luck to you, bye, you have aperson who is designated to
guide you when you run upagainst any barriers.
I laughingly, sometimes call itthe I don't know office.
I tell my students that becauseif you're walking around campus
and you're like, oh, I reallylysometimes call it the I don't
know office, um, I tell mystudents that cause like, if you
, if you're walking aroundcampus and you're like, oh, I
(14:32):
really wish I could do this, butI don't know, you should be
like, oh, I don't know.
Like, I'm going to go see, likeJed, I'm going to go see, like
the opportunity scholars officeand figure that out.
And I think when counselorsknow, or community-based
organizations know that they'resending their student to a place
that has that kind of support.
I think they feel good aboutsending those students to us.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Yeah, so I've done presentations for AVID groups.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Oh, I love it.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
There's coming to chat with us.
Yeah, I've trained theadmission recruiters, so the
ones going out in the field andagain going down to the basics,
what is first gen, so they canunderstand and tell them about
our office.
I've met with prospectivestudents I am tabling every day
in June and July every year atour orientation so all the
(15:24):
incoming freshmen and transferstudents, so they see our office
quite a bit.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yeah, so have you cloned yourself in order to get
to all these places all the time, or do you just work 24 hours
and then collapse like at theend of the month?
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yeah, that is something that I'm thinking
about going into year two.
You know we're in week fiveright now this semester and I
have tabled again at SummerWelcome.
We have a welcome week, whichis like a whole week of
activities before class evenstarts where all students, not
just freshmen, can go to um.
I held events during that forthe incoming freshmen tabled at
(15:58):
involvement week things.
So there's there's alwayssomething right in the semester
and, like I definitely ran intothat during welcome week, there
was three things I was supposedto be at at once.
And my one student worker wasbusy with students rushing for
sororities.
So, yeah, it was definitely achallenge.
I ran across the campus with mybig wagon with all of my stuff
(16:22):
to the table and just,unfortunately I may not be able
to be at every single thing, butI have.
I have been at 99% of the table.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
That's awesome, that's awesome, but I, I, yeah,
I think finding that balance isgoing to be the trickiest thing.
Um, but I think you're you're.
Instead of a headshot, youshould send me the picture of
you running across campus withthe red wagon.
That should be like your symbol.
So what were some of thechallenges that you faced in
setting all this up, cause I'm,I'm you?
So what were some of thechallenges that you faced in
setting all this up Because I'myou know, even though people
were like, yes, we need this,there's always some challenges.
(16:52):
Yeah, what did you face?
What did you face and how didyou overcome them, or are you
still overcoming?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Still overcoming.
So many people welcome you withopen arms and were really
supportive of the initiative.
There was a working group offolks so about 15 folks on
campus, again representingdifferent units, who shared this
initiative and were working ongoals, and one of their goals
was to hire my position right.
(17:20):
So I met with those folks firstwho are on the board on that
working group and kind of did alistening to her.
My supervisor gave me a laundrylist of all the directors and
deans and everyone I should chatwith in different departments.
And again, our campus is verylarge.
I walked across campus, notwith my wagon at that point, but
we didn't have any materials atthat point.
(17:41):
I did eventually create anoffice flyer a couple of months
later, but just myself walkingto other people's offices
because I wanted to see theirspace and learn campus.
I'm not a Mizzou alum, right.
I come from the University ofIllinois and so I had to learn
campus the physical spaces,because something I pride myself
in.
(18:01):
One of the first things Iwanted to do was, if I don't
know campus, how can I showstudents where the counseling
center is, for example?
I can walk them over therebecause I know campus it's a
very walkable campus.
How can I show students wherethe counseling center is, for
example?
I can walk them over therebecause I know campus it's a
very walkable campus.
But I try to make sure I knowwhat every building is.
So just learning campus,meeting folks you know some have
(18:21):
been there 20 years, otherswere new, like me and just
introducing myself, reallytrying to understand the culture
and what we do celebrate andwhat the wins have been and some
of the challenges, because Ican't claim to come in and be
the expert.
I've done a lot of research onfirst gen, like the scholarly
research, but what is it atMizzou that first gen students
(18:44):
struggle with?
So I started with listening toher and then looking at our data
.
So the Nessie data of 2022 wasthe most current data when I
started.
We are about to.
I just joined the Nessiecommittee for this coming year,
which is exciting and thatshowed a lot of interesting
facts about our first-genstudents.
(19:05):
Right, because we cancharacteristically say and look
at the nationwide data, that youknow a first-gen student
stereotypically is a hispanic,african-american woman over the
age of 25 with children.
For example, at mizzou that'sactually quite the opposite.
We have about 60 percent um 18year old women, white women as
(19:27):
well.
So that's something to note,right, that we don't fit that
characteristic.
And so, keeping that in mind,when we looked at the Nessie
data, we saw that theAfrican-American male first-gen
students actually have thelowest sense of belonging among
any other identifier on campus.
So I kept that in the back ofmy mind and then I also saw in
(19:50):
the Nessie data that first-genstudents have the lowest
participation rate inhigh-impact practices.
So when we say we shorten that,we call it HIPS, and I know
we're using jargon here and alot of first-gen students don't
know what jargon is and some ofmy colleagues don't even know
what HIPS are.
Right, and they work in highereducation, but those are things
like study abroad, undergradresearch, internships and
(20:12):
service learning, right, and afew other classroom things like
capstones and things like that,yeah, and so that was something
that was like that is alarming,but it makes sense, right,
because of the affordability orthe access piece, something that
I never, ever consideredstudying abroad in my
undergraduate experience um,never been out of the country,
(20:34):
right.
And so when you're a first-genstudent or a low-income student,
you're like that you don't evenlook at that office, right, you
walk right by it and you'relike that's not even an option
for me that right.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
That's not for me not for me.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
So that was one of my first missions.
How can we get first genstudents participate in things
like study abroad, undergradresearch, things like that?
So I joined an undergradresearch working group.
Our task is to get first genstudents to apply for the
National Science Foundationgrant, which is really
prestigious National ScienceFoundation grant which is really
(21:08):
prestigious.
Yeah, so I've been on thatcommittee since I've started.
We met yesterday, like we'remeet biweekly, and just a great
group of people who are alltrying to accomplish the same
goal.
But a big thing that I wouldlike to know is the study abroad
aspect.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
So we created a study abroad program.
We went to Costa Rica.
We had 15 out of the 24students who went were first gen
, which was the highest numberof first gen students in one
program.
So this was kind of our pilotyear, right, like, since I had
just started I was like I'm justsetting off a few months later
(21:44):
to Costa Rica with thesestudents.
But it was amazing being therein the ocean with them and they
were telling me like if I didn'tknow about your office, never
saw your emails, because we dida lot of promotion and marketing
for it and just trying tochange the narrative of like
this isn't for you, right?
That's what they usually think.
And just in that one program,like, I've already seen a
(22:05):
difference in first-gen studentsreaching out, discussing study,
the study abroad.
They think it's an option forthem now and they've seen some
of the other students who wentyou know, hearing their friends'
experiences.
So I'm excited to see what wedo next.
We are planning something forspring of 2026.
Very, very excited.
We're going to go visit thatcountry this January to kind of
(22:27):
scope it out.
But I'm already tellingstudents like we're going to
have a first gen only trip, sothis will just be first gen
students.
We're calling it first to flyand there's hefty scholarships.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
That's awesome, that's fantastic and this is
like an alternative spring breakthen, so students don't have to
commit to being away for asemester.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Yeah, it's a short-term faculty-led trip that
they get class credit for.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
I love that.
That's fantastic, very exciting.
Okay, I'm not going to ask youto share the sneak preview of
where you're going, so you know,just in case your students are
listening.
They'll be like I knew first.
That sounds amazing and I dothink that all of those
experiential learning pieces arereally important to first-gen
students because it gives them aprofessional network and it
(23:16):
does take them out of theircomfort zone yet again in some
ways.
Right, I mean, coming tocollege might be out of their
comfort zone, but then studyabroad or an internship, you
know, going into thatprofessional setting is just
going to give them just such arich college experience.
So, yeah, I think that's so keyand it's amazing all the things
that you're getting started andI love how you are thinking of
(23:41):
it as and you can tell me ifthis is how you are thinking of
it but what I'm taking away isyou're a hub, but you spoke out
to a lot of differentdepartments and people who then
interact and share theirexpertise with the students that
you're serving.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Yeah, I can't claim to be the expert right, the goal
and vision of our office, sinceI am a one-person department.
I meet with students one-on-one.
They can make an appointmentwith me.
I've set office hours, butreally it just I want to get
them to the right expert right.
Because we're so big, we havewhich is amazing, we have those
resources, we have the expertsto go talk about their finances
(24:19):
with.
So I do meet with students andchat with them about their
personal struggles.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
And a lot of the conversations are around you
know, what's next after theirbachelor's degree?
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Are they going to go to grad school?
Worries about entering adultlife?
Right.
Then we have to figure outagain first-gen doesn't leave
you, right, that identity.
Then you're entering theworkforce and then you're
considered a first-genprofessional.
Yeah, it's a hard thing tonavigate after college and the
logistics like your health care,your 401k yeah, yeah, that is a
(24:53):
lot of what we mean about.
And then just first gen.
First gen scholarships thatI've met with several students.
Uh, just, you know they'reworried about the payment plan
was due last week and so, youknow, the first one of the
semester and just trying to helpstudents, keep them here, right
, like, if, again, you canafford it, how can we assist
them any further than that?
Speaker 1 (25:14):
So yeah, yeah, I love that and I said this on a
previous podcast.
But my belief is always that ifwe admit them to the university
, then we need to do everythingwe can to keep them and help
them graduate.
You know, as long as they'rewilling to meet us halfway.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Yeah, so that is how we crafted our office mission.
We kind of our slogan iscelebrates for an honor, which
sounds like your intro of thepodcast, which is amazing.
I thought it was funny.
We're all again.
We're all here across thecountry.
That is our main mission, right, we serve similar students in
similar demographics at eachdifferent types of institutions,
but I think we all have thesame core mission.
(25:51):
Yes, so yeah, I looked at whatother universities are doing,
what are some of the successes,and really took it from there
and we've crafted.
Within my board, my advisoryboard, and I have a couple other
subcommittees as well I'vecrafted the office mission to
really create a creative,celebratory community on campus
(26:13):
of not just grad students buttheir parents, families, right,
alumni, faculty and staff,because we can't just think
about students.
We got to think about everyoneelse who identifies as first gen
and the people that areconnected to them.
First gen allies is what wewould call them, right?
Yeah, so our vision has reallycrafted recently.
(26:33):
Again, we're going into year twoand I'm like let's narrow down.
What can we say in the nextfive years?
Where are we headed?
Right, this office, and there'sa lot of goals and missions
along with it, but it goes backto retention and graduation rate
.
So part of how my position wasfunded through the Higher
Learning Commission HLC that wasone of the core missions was
(26:56):
focusing on first generationefforts and getting graduation
retention rates up, and so ourvision is to.
We currently at 2019 was thelatest data set from the
four-year graduation rate, whichis about 45.8.
We're going to try to get it upto 48.
So 2.2% difference Doesn'tsound like much by 2027, next
(27:16):
four years, but I think all theinitiatives that I'm discussing
here really goes back into thatcore mission and vision.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Yeah, and I think I like how you're thinking of it
as a whole ecosystem of you know, not only undergraduates, but
also including, you know,faculty and staff and allies and
everyone, because we know thatif you support first gen
students, you're reallysupporting and building support
for all the students.
And then you know, as you see,your graduation rates rise.
(27:48):
And was that your graduationrate just for first gen or for
overall?
Speaker 2 (27:52):
That's just first gen .
Yeah it's lower than thenon-first gen peers.
The non-first gen peer is 62%.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Okay, all right.
So I imagine the goal would beat least to get to that point
and then to overtake that.
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Long-term thinking.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Right, I love it.
I love it.
So what?
What, besides the the springstudy abroad that obviously
people are now talking about,what are some other things that
you found that resonate withstudents that you've done
recently?
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Yeah, we're really excited about Tri-Alpha.
We recently created a chapterat our university, trialpha.
We recently created a chapterat our university and TriAlpha
is a nationwide honor societyfor first-gen students, but not
just students alumni, honoreestudents who are affiliated with
your university, and alsofaculty and staff who are
first-gen.
(28:42):
They didn't have to attendMizzou, but just any first-gen
faculty and staff member if theyidentify as such.
But just any first gen facultyand staff member if they
identify as such can be inducted.
So we're rolling it out thisfall.
We just sent the emails tostudents a couple of weeks ago.
We already have close to it'sclose to 100 who have applied
and joined, which is really,really exciting.
We have about 30 faculty andstaff who are going to be
(29:04):
inducted and the deadline isstill not for another month.
So I am hoping those numberswill rise.
But I was, so I was like really, really excited.
I was kind of nerding out whenI saw the first person apply for
triumph club, because we didn'tknow what to expect.
Right, this is a new initiativeand, um, I think just having an
honor says that it showcases tothe upperclassmen with a 3.2
(29:27):
gpa that we're here to supportand honor them in any way we can
and this is just one new way tohave a yearly induction
ceremony on National First GenDay.
We're going to have it onNovember 8th.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
I was going to ask you if you were going to yeah,
yeah, yeah, of course thatFriday.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
So we're going to have cake and punch and live for
their families to celebratewith them.
But again, just another waythat we can show support for
those students.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Yeah, yeah, I love that that celebratory piece is
so important.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
We always go back to the celebratory and our
messaging when we were, becausea lot of building a new office
is the marketing and promotionaround it.
Right, because since you're new, no one really knows what
you're doing.
And since it's a brand newoffice, is the marketing and
promotion around it right,because since you're new, no one
really knows what you're doingand since it's a brand new
office, you have to also createthe office mission.
Right, all of that, but alsothe, the slogans right, and the
marketing that we use.
(30:19):
So we have proud to be firstgen.
Buttons that everyone wearsacross campus.
Um, I hand out all of the stuffwhen I'm tabling.
All the time.
We have the little stress ballsand parents love stress balls
and stickers that have our logoas well, and then the office
flyers, and so again, t-shirtsand mugs and all the things.
(30:41):
But I think having thatcelebratory message in our
messaging, in our marketing andpromotion, I think creates,
because sometimes when you hearfirst gen, there's that stigma
or the deficit viewpoint, and soI really tried it that again it
comes back down to how can wecreate a culture at our
(31:02):
university where we'recelebrating, uplifting first gen
students and not looking atthem in a deficit manner because
they do have struggles comparedto their non-first-gen peers.
And I do a lot of professionaldevelopment training for faculty
and staff and advisors who workwith these students, because
(31:22):
it's good to know the data andthe facts around the students
nationwide and then what itlooks like at our university.
But then when we're actuallyspeaking with students, we want
to make sure that we understandsome of the deficits or the
struggles they face and thechallenges they face, but how
can we then help them throughthat in a more positive manner?
Speaker 1 (31:41):
right, right, right, yeah.
Yeah, I totally agree.
And because the deficit modelhas been around for so long,
there is some struggle to getrid of that and replace it with
a more positive point of viewwhen talking to these students.
(32:07):
But it sounds like you're doingtremendously well and students
are finding you and talking withyou and taking advantage of all
the things you have to offer.
What's next Like?
What are your blue sky ideas?
And then, what are your like?
We're definitely going to dothis, no matter what.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
So we were excited to get into the First Scholars
Network that is, through FirstGen Forward, formerly known as
Center for First Gen StudentSuccess, that third party
nonprofit who helps.
They created National First GenCelebration Day and then we
turned it into a week and nowthe whole month of November is
like my Super Bowl, like we hostso many events throughout
(32:46):
November celebrating students.
But I always like to know youknow we're not just celebrating
you one day, one day or onemonth.
We host monthly social eventsthrough our student org.
That was new.
It got created last year,became an official student org
and I advise that.
So we have a whole new execboard.
It was founded by this greatsenior who graduated this past
(33:08):
May, already has a job inCalifornia, very proud of him,
and we have a new president anda whole new exec board who
really wants to create somethingspecial with us and have a kind
of safe space for first-genstudents to come together and
build community.
Community because the researchshows right if they get involved
(33:28):
, not just in the things Imentioned before but with each
other and make connections withstudents and with other faculty
and staff.
We know the research shows ifthey interact or have a mentor
with faculty that thatgraduation rate skyrockets there
.
So really building thatcommunity and having just fun
social events.
We've done game night, movienight, paint and sip.
(33:52):
We did a vision board craftnight the other day Super fun,
but just fun, silly ways to gettogether and meet each other and
I'm like, if you meet one, Ilove when I see a student like
meet a friend, like exchangingSnapchats with each other.
It's just really fun to watch.
So I'm right there with thestudents.
(34:14):
I work a lot of nights andweekends trying to just plan fun
events for them.
And we have the whole committeefor national first gen
celebration week.
I have close to 15 to 20departments representing.
So we that's fabulous events.
We held 22 events last year, um, and so very excited to see
what this year will bring and um, just got the t-shirts ordered
for that.
We're gonna have tie-dye veryfun things coming up.
(34:34):
But where we're really workingon aside from students and
getting them involved, I had totake a step back and think right
, we're always focused onstudents and how can we better
them?
What about the first-genfaculty and staff as well, and
alumni, right, those componentslike I mentioned before, and so
we had a windfall of faculty andstaff reaching out to me
(34:57):
recently because we put a callto action in the Provost
newsletter asking for first-genfaculty and staff who identify
as such and would like to belisted in our directory on our
website.
So we have close to 90 facultyon there so far about 50 staff.
It's going to keep growing.
Got emails already today aboutit and just really trying to
(35:21):
gather a list of who is firstgen right, because again, the
research shows, if a studentsees, sees, they're you know oh,
that chemistry professor I havea class on tuesday he's first
gen.
Now they're more likely to gospeak with them and we know that
that interaction can create areally sense of belonging, yeah,
yeah and that's a big portionof our office mission is that's
(35:44):
belonging.
That works specifically.
So really just gatheringfaculty and staff.
What can we do with this newinitiative?
I created a tab on our websitetrying to gather interest of.
Should we create like a monthlycoffee chat?
Maybe we have a book club anddiscuss scholarly research on
first-gen topics?
(36:04):
Um read one book a semester butreally just gather us together
as a community and lean on eachother who share that identity as
first-gen professionals because, like I mentioned before, that
identity never really leaves youand in academia, in higher
education, sometimes there'sthat stigma around labeling
yourself as first-gen faculty orstaff member.
(36:25):
But I think just beingtransparent about it and showing
our students that we also havesimilar stories to them and how
we created pathways, I thinkit's really inspiring for
students to see.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Yeah, agree 100%.
I think the more people who arewilling to share that they have
a similar background, the moreour students sort of see it and
believe it that they can do someof the things that they've been
hoping to do when they're incollege.
Yeah, yeah, love it.
All right.
So you've created this program.
It's still new, you know,you're still working on things.
(36:58):
So what would you say tosomeone who, right now, you out
there listening and you're like,oh, I want to start a program
like this.
I have some funding, or I don'thave some funding, but I want
to start it, selena, what wouldyou suggest that they ask gather
?
Speaker 2 (37:17):
do you have to build a rapport with the other staff
and faculty on campus whosupport that vision and mission
If you're trying to create andbuild a first-gen office from
the ground up and I know a lotof universities are doing that
currently I went to professionalNASPA conferences right when I
first started really self-taughtand looked at all the research
(37:39):
on first-generation specifictopics and I think some of the
challenges have been fundingright.
If you're not grant funded,such as Treehouse SS or having
donors, I think you have tostart small and realize who your
supporters are, because itreally comes down to like I
can't do the work myself as aone person department but I
(38:00):
never work alone, right?
So you're always collaboratingwith other partnerships, so
finding those folks in yourcorner who support it.
If you're, if this is a brandnew initiative, I would form a
committee and look at thedefinition that you have at the
university.
What is the definition offirst-gen?
Right?
Because that is.
I do a whole PD training, twohours discussing this to faculty
(38:22):
and staff, and there's peopleon my board who didn't realize
the convoluted messaging behindthe definition.
Right, there's one legaldefinition we take from the TRIO
legislation, but it gets prettycomplicated because every
university, community, collegehas different definitions and
there's a lot of articleswritten about this.
(38:43):
But how do we create one soliddefinition?
So if there's not already onesolid definition, then where are
you asking it?
Right?
So, thankfully, we already hadit on our admissions application
and some folks can take thatdata from the FAFSA as well, but
not every student fills outFAFSA.
So, double checking your dataand assessment and starting from
(39:04):
there, of who is first gen,what is the percentage?
How do we gather communicationto these students, right?
So I gathered the report theyget about weekly emails from me
on a newsletter about specificfirst gen topics.
So I sent one out the other dayabout a scholarship opportunity
for first gen students and anevent that we did on Wednesday
(39:25):
and so really specific messaging.
And then I found the incomingprospective students who
indicated they were first in onthe admissions application and I
just sent them a postcardsaying we celebrate you and
telling them about our officeand a link to the website so
they know even before they'vestepped on campus.
Love that they have a resourcefor them.
(39:46):
So I think starting with thedefinition in the incoming
students will kind of help buildthe programs for current
students as well yeah, I lovethat we celebrate you and then
sharing what, what the officedoes, that's, that's just.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
If I saw that, I'd just smile because I'd be like,
wow, like, yeah, like somebody'scelebrating me, love the next
school.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
I want to add the stickers and buttons in that
postage to their home.
I think yes.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Nice and I didn't ask you this, but are you under
student life?
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Yeah, we're actually housed under undergraduate
studies.
Ok, so we're located in theStudent Success Center, which
has again a lot of the otherresource offices serving
students with the objective ofsuccess.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Nice, that's fantastic.
Is there anything else you youwant folks to know, like how to
contact you, or or if they havean idea, or they want to pick
your brain because they're aboutto do what you have done?
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Yeah, I met with other folks just a few in the UM
system, university of Missourisystem.
We have a few schools trying tocreate something similar,
similar programs, and sodefinitely open to Zoom chats or
phone calls or emails.
It's selenamindsetmissouriedu.
Everything is also on ourwebsite, so
firstgenerationatmissourieu Veryproud of that website.
(41:04):
We're slowly, slowly buildingit.
Tons of great info on there.
I always refer students,parents, faculty staff.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
We have a tab for everybody.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Yes, Definitely the place to go.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
It is a great and inclusive website of all those
groups, so I really likedchecking that out.
So I'll put the email addressyour email address and the
website in the show notes so ifanybody's listening in the car,
you don't have to pull overright now, Write it down or
memorize it.
Later on you can check the shownotes and get that information.
So thank you, Selena, so muchfor coming on and talking about
(41:36):
this great program that you'redeveloping.
Hopefully we can revisit in acouple of years and then you can
say, like I have a staff ofthis many people and we're doing
all these things, and you canmaintain your sanity and not
just burst into flames fromtrying to be three places at
once with your wagon.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Yes, yes, well, thank you so much.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
Yeah, thank you for being here with me today and if
you want to get in touch with me, you can find me at Jen, that's
J-E-N.
At firstgenfmcom and at mywebsite is firstgenfmcom.
I look forward to talking withyou again next week and, as
always, I love to hear a ratingand review and helps other
(42:19):
people find the podcast.
Thanks so much for today andwe'll talk to you next week.
Welcome and welcome back to the First Gen FM podcast
, where we high school andcollege educators strengthen,
celebrate and supportfirst-generation college and
college-bound students.
I'm Jennifer Schoen, your host.
Please call me Jen.
I'd love it if you could leavea review and a rating for this
podcast to help other educatorsfind us.
Thank you so much for takingthe time to do that.
(00:27):
Now let's dive into this week'sepisode.
In this episode, I'm talking toSelena Mainz, the First
Generation InitiativesCoordinator at the University of
Missouri, where one in fourstudents are first generation.
We'll talk about building aprogram from scratch, with data
collection and a listening tour,and then how she built support
(00:50):
across the campus.
Thanks for joining us today.
So let's jump in with SelenaMainz, who's here with me today,
and we're going to talk abouthow to start a first-gen program
at a land-grant institution,specifically at the University
of Missouri, and how Selena didit.
So, selena, thank you so muchfor joining me today.
(01:10):
Thank you for having me.
Yeah, I'm really excited totalk about this, but I always
like to start with you.
Know what was your journey?
What's the spark that got youinto higher ed, into working
with first-gen students?
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah.
So I have to mention, of course, that I'm a first generation
student myself.
I identified in myundergraduate career as a first
gen, a non-traditional student.
I got married young so we livedas a commuter about 45 minutes
away, went to a communitycollege at first and transferred
to University of IllinoisSpringfield, then transferred to
University of IllinoisSpringfield, the smaller of the
(01:48):
UI system, and took nightclasses.
So all of those identities Iwas right there with the
students experiencing things andbeing first gen has been a big
part of all of those identities.
It comes back to right.
My parents didn't attendcollege and I moved out very
young, got married, and so myparents didn't attend college
and I moved out very young, gotmarried, and so we were trying
to navigate it, working fulltime and going to college.
(02:09):
So I did not have a traditionalundergraduate experience.
So it all stems back from that.
I really wanted I learned whatis a higher education
administrator in high schoolbecause I always was the kid who
played with my dolls and was ateacher.
So I always thought, oh, youhave to be a teacher, right to
work in higher ed, in education.
(02:31):
I didn't really know, like,what higher ed meant in the
administrative and staff side ofthings.
Until really about my junioryear of high school.
I think I was talking with acounselor and like she's like
you, can, you don't have to be afaculty, right, you don't have
to be a faculty, right, youdon't have to be a teacher?
And so that's kind of whatsprung it and I was like, oh,
I'm gonna work in higher ed.
I got obsessed with college.
(02:52):
I was like learning, I'm veryself-taught and like love
research.
So I was, uh, I was kind of anerd about Ivy League statistics
acceptance rates, okay.
So like I can quote this isfrom 10 years ago by like six
percent, right with harvard atthe time, 10 years ago, their
acceptance rate.
So I became obsessed with justlooking at schools, specifically
(03:13):
the east coast I'm from iowa,okay I wanted to go anywhere out
of iowa.
So, being first gen, you knowlike I couldn't Pell eligible.
But come from a low incomebackground, I'm like, how do I
get out of here with no parentalfinancial support?
They were emotionallysupportive and I always knew I
(03:34):
was going to college.
Right, I was that straight, avery involved student, president
of every club in high school,and I was like, well, of course
I'm going to college, but where?
Club in high school.
And I was like, well, of courseI'm going to college, but where
?
And um just wanted to getanywhere out of Iowa and ended
up going to a large universityvery far away and it was not
meant for me, so moved back homeand went to community college.
(03:55):
But that is what sparked it.
Uh, I knew I was going to workin higher education.
I was disappointed that there'snot an undergrad degree
specifically for highereducation administration.
You have to wait to get yourmaster's in that.
So I did end up getting't seenby faculty and staff in my
undergrad experience and Iwasn't mentored.
(04:27):
I didn't even have an academicadvisor at one point.
Wow, really, just had to figureout myself.
But I also did have.
I was that stereotypical firstgen student who had a lot of
pride and I was like, well, I'mgoing to, like, this is going to
be my career.
So I know all about collegealready, so I'm just going to
figure it out myself.
And I really want to shake myformer self, because I should
(04:49):
have utilized the resources moreright.
I was briefly part of TRIO at acommunity college and so, like
I, I knew a little bit about theterm first gen, but that wasn't
a word that was used 10 yearsago when I was in college.
Yeah, yeah, it's.
It's relatively new, you know,thanks to the Center for
First-Gen Student Success whichis now First-Gen Forward.
(05:10):
They kind of coined the termright, it's existed for decades,
but in 2018 when they began, soI didn't know what.
I was right.
That identity wasn't used in mycollege experience and so I
worked in higher education rightout of my bachelor's.
I thankfully got a great careerworking in disability services.
(05:32):
So that's my background.
Okay, access accommodations,testing accommodations, those
sort of things.
So I've worked in thatbackground for about three to
five years and took thisposition last summer of 2023.
And University of Missouri iswe're located kind of in between
(05:54):
Kansas City and St Louis.
We're right smack that, likeliterally the most Midwest you
can be in the country.
So, um, mizzou is theland-grant state flagship of the
uh, of the state of missouri sowe're very big.
We have about 30 000 students.
(06:14):
Okay, um, that's justundergraduate, like
pre-professional graduatestudents.
I mainly work undergraduatestudents, but I saw this
position again.
It was working as the directorof disability services at a
small private university here inMissouri and then took this
position and really just told mystory during the interview
process and they really likedthat.
(06:36):
You know I can relate to thestudents and and tell them a
little bit about how I identifyas a transfer of how eligible
Hispanic woman in-gennon-traditional took online
right All the things, yeah, yeah, and so I can relate to that
specific population.
So Mizzou didn't have afirst-gen office, so I am the
(06:57):
founder of this office.
Wow so they had nothing.
So we do have great programsfor first-gen students.
I do want to make note of that.
Since we are so large, a lot ofthe schools within the
university, so there's likeSchool of Health and Science,
for example, arts and Science.
There's all kinds of differentschools.
(07:18):
So School of Business, forexample, has a Heartland
Scholars Program and that is asmall cohort of about 10
students each year, so only 40students total.
freshmen through seniors ofrural business students who are
first gen oh wow and thatprogram is run by a separate
faculty member and it is amazing, but it's only within school of
(07:39):
business.
Yeah, so mizu was like how dowe?
We have all of these greatsmall pockets of programs?
There's quite a few others, Ican list as well, but we didn't
have something targeting, alllike the big umbrella.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
So something more centralized for all students.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Yeah, of all undergraduate students, and we
have about 5,000 first-genundergraduate students Nice, so
that's a big portion and therewas no umbrella covering that.
I do want to make note of TRIOSSS program.
We have the largest TRIOprogram in the country who
serves?
670 students.
I'm very proud of our TRIOprogram and they were rebuilding
(08:19):
last year on the same time as Istarted.
They had a new director and allnew staff, and so we really
have come together because weserve similar populations.
Right, we can invite a certainnumber of first-gen students,
students registered with thedisability office and low income
, but that is only serving right, a small percentage compared to
(08:40):
the 5,000.
5,000, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I work in tandem with TRIO.
We are in the same building,the Student Success Center, with
a lot of other great um offices.
There's CASE, which is fordiversity scholars, and the
Transfer Center, the DiscoverCenter all of these great
offices who do serve similarstudents.
(09:02):
But again, there was no one whowas corralling and leading this
initiative, so I got hired inMay of 2023.
I had to launch the office justby myself, as a one-person
department.
I am still a one-persondepartment with one work-study
student, and I just utilized thepartnerships that I've met
throughout the year and a halfthat I've been there.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yeah, so, in addition to the TRIO program, who have
been some of the champions increating this?
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Yeah, so I created a 17-person board.
It's a standing advisory boardcomprised of all kinds of folks
across campus, since we're solarge with different colleges
and units within the university.
We have the Transfer Centerrepresented on our board, mcnair
Scholars, which is also anotherTRIO program, who helps
(09:53):
students get into graduateschool, specifically focused on
like undergrad research, andthen the Office for Financial
Success.
That has been one of ouramazing I call them first-gen
champions.
Alex Embry is the assistantdirector over there and we are
one of the only universities inthe country who has a specific,
(10:14):
dedicated, separate office thanfinancial aid.
So financial aid is different.
We do have a representative onmy board of financial aid, but
Office for financial success isa separate office that assists
students in budgeting.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
They do their taxes for free, like a little bit more
literacy financial literacy,yes, financial literacy
presentations, consulting withstudents on one-on-one
appointments and things likethat.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
we also have champions from the library ellis
library, main library on campus.
They hired a student successlibrarian and so she's been
great to have on my board andreally thinking kind of outside
the box of what can we do withboth of our positions and
focusing on student successefforts.
So those are some of the folksalong the trio who are on the
(11:00):
board, but I haverepresentations from advisors,
hr, all kinds of differentdepartments that you may not
think of when you think of firstgen.
I love the library, yeah, butwe try to have a unique
representation from most of themajor departments and schools on
campus.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Now, do you connect at all with admissions to kind
of find out, like as they're,like, even during orientation,
who the first gen students are,so you can start your context
right away?
How do you, how do you get intouch with them and what?
What do you do to bring them inand help students understand
that there is this there is thisplace just for them?
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Yeah, so I've worked with admissions.
One of the main things is thatis the only way that we collect
the data on who is first isthrough the admissions
application.
So working on that definition,compiling that data in our data
system, has been super helpful.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
That's how we track it in all of our back end
systems.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
I also have done recruitment events with
admissions and enrollmentmanagement.
So I've traveled to Dallas,chicago, st Louis, meeting with
incoming prospective studentswho have admitted to Mizzou and
just I'm hoping that my presencethere every year shows oh hey,
there's an office for me, right,my identity is celebrated and a
(12:20):
lot of the incoming studentsmay not again have heard of what
is the term first gen.
Right, a lot of what the workwe do is just debunking the
definition and kind ofdispelling some of the myths
behind what it means to be firstgen, and a lot of high school
students they may have heard ofit but it depends on the school
district they came from right.
(12:42):
So if you didn't have, in myexample I went to a big, large
urban high school and we had oneguidance counselor and like 600
students and unfortunately it'sjust.
If you don't have that mentorsupport and you didn't have a
parent or guardian attend afour-year university, who do you
reach out to to even understandthe terms?
And you know, I always tell theincoming students you did the
(13:05):
hardest part, you got in right.
Applying to college for mespecifically it was one of the
hardest challenges and thenfiguring out your FAFSA on top
of that and how are we going topay?
Right, you can't be there in 10with good grades if you can't
afford it, right?
So I think it does start in Kthrough 12 of teaching and um
(13:25):
Really having professionaldevelopment for the counselors.
So that is one of our goals isto work with the guidance
counselors who the schools werecruit from and really letting
them know again what is firstgen, going down to the basics,
what is the definition?
How can they explain it to theirstudents right when they're
applying to MISU, and then theyknow that our office is here for
them once they get here?
Speaker 1 (13:49):
for them once they get here.
Yeah, I think that's one of thebeauties of working at a state
school too I worked at theUniversity of Washington for
about 10 years and knowing that,like your state, is something
that the institution is focusedon, and so you can do outreach
to the schools in the state andthe guidance counselors in the
state and really connect withthem to say this is what we're
doing, this is what we offer,and the idea that if you send
(14:12):
your students to us, it's notjust like, hey, welcome, good
luck to you, bye, you have aperson who is designated to
guide you when you run upagainst any barriers.
I laughingly, sometimes call itthe I don't know office.
I tell my students that becauseif you're walking around campus
and you're like, oh, I reallylysometimes call it the I don't
know office, um, I tell mystudents that cause like, if you
, if you're walking aroundcampus and you're like, oh, I
(14:32):
really wish I could do this, butI don't know, you should be
like, oh, I don't know.
Like, I'm going to go see, likeJed, I'm going to go see, like
the opportunity scholars officeand figure that out.
And I think when counselorsknow, or community-based
organizations know that they'resending their student to a place
that has that kind of support.
I think they feel good aboutsending those students to us.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Yeah, so I've done presentations for AVID groups.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Oh, I love it.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
There's coming to chat with us.
Yeah, I've trained theadmission recruiters, so the
ones going out in the field andagain going down to the basics,
what is first gen, so they canunderstand and tell them about
our office.
I've met with prospectivestudents I am tabling every day
in June and July every year atour orientation so all the
(15:24):
incoming freshmen and transferstudents, so they see our office
quite a bit.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yeah, so have you cloned yourself in order to get
to all these places all the time, or do you just work 24 hours
and then collapse like at theend of the month?
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yeah, that is something that I'm thinking
about going into year two.
You know we're in week fiveright now this semester and I
have tabled again at SummerWelcome.
We have a welcome week, whichis like a whole week of
activities before class evenstarts where all students, not
just freshmen, can go to um.
I held events during that forthe incoming freshmen tabled at
(15:58):
involvement week things.
So there's there's alwayssomething right in the semester
and, like I definitely ran intothat during welcome week, there
was three things I was supposedto be at at once.
And my one student worker wasbusy with students rushing for
sororities.
So, yeah, it was definitely achallenge.
I ran across the campus with mybig wagon with all of my stuff
(16:22):
to the table and just,unfortunately I may not be able
to be at every single thing, butI have.
I have been at 99% of the table.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
That's awesome, that's awesome, but I, I, yeah,
I think finding that balance isgoing to be the trickiest thing.
Um, but I think you're you're.
Instead of a headshot, youshould send me the picture of
you running across campus withthe red wagon.
That should be like your symbol.
So what were some of thechallenges that you faced in
setting all this up, cause I'm,I'm you?
So what were some of thechallenges that you faced in
setting all this up Because I'myou know, even though people
were like, yes, we need this,there's always some challenges.
(16:52):
Yeah, what did you face?
What did you face and how didyou overcome them, or are you
still overcoming?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Still overcoming.
So many people welcome you withopen arms and were really
supportive of the initiative.
There was a working group offolks so about 15 folks on
campus, again representingdifferent units, who shared this
initiative and were working ongoals, and one of their goals
was to hire my position right.
(17:20):
So I met with those folks firstwho are on the board on that
working group and kind of did alistening to her.
My supervisor gave me a laundrylist of all the directors and
deans and everyone I should chatwith in different departments.
And again, our campus is verylarge.
I walked across campus, notwith my wagon at that point, but
we didn't have any materials atthat point.
(17:41):
I did eventually create anoffice flyer a couple of months
later, but just myself walkingto other people's offices
because I wanted to see theirspace and learn campus.
I'm not a Mizzou alum, right.
I come from the University ofIllinois and so I had to learn
campus the physical spaces,because something I pride myself
in.
(18:01):
One of the first things Iwanted to do was, if I don't
know campus, how can I showstudents where the counseling
center is, for example?
I can walk them over therebecause I know campus it's a
very walkable campus.
How can I show students wherethe counseling center is, for
example?
I can walk them over therebecause I know campus it's a
very walkable campus.
But I try to make sure I knowwhat every building is.
So just learning campus,meeting folks you know some have
(18:21):
been there 20 years, otherswere new, like me and just
introducing myself, reallytrying to understand the culture
and what we do celebrate andwhat the wins have been and some
of the challenges, because Ican't claim to come in and be
the expert.
I've done a lot of research onfirst gen, like the scholarly
research, but what is it atMizzou that first gen students
(18:44):
struggle with?
So I started with listening toher and then looking at our data
.
So the Nessie data of 2022 wasthe most current data when I
started.
We are about to.
I just joined the Nessiecommittee for this coming year,
which is exciting and thatshowed a lot of interesting
facts about our first-genstudents.
(19:05):
Right, because we cancharacteristically say and look
at the nationwide data, that youknow a first-gen student
stereotypically is a hispanic,african-american woman over the
age of 25 with children.
For example, at mizzou that'sactually quite the opposite.
We have about 60 percent um 18year old women, white women as
(19:27):
well.
So that's something to note,right, that we don't fit that
characteristic.
And so, keeping that in mind,when we looked at the Nessie
data, we saw that theAfrican-American male first-gen
students actually have thelowest sense of belonging among
any other identifier on campus.
So I kept that in the back ofmy mind and then I also saw in
(19:50):
the Nessie data that first-genstudents have the lowest
participation rate inhigh-impact practices.
So when we say we shorten that,we call it HIPS, and I know
we're using jargon here and alot of first-gen students don't
know what jargon is and some ofmy colleagues don't even know
what HIPS are.
Right, and they work in highereducation, but those are things
like study abroad, undergradresearch, internships and
(20:12):
service learning, right, and afew other classroom things like
capstones and things like that,yeah, and so that was something
that was like that is alarming,but it makes sense, right,
because of the affordability orthe access piece, something that
I never, ever consideredstudying abroad in my
undergraduate experience um,never been out of the country,
(20:34):
right.
And so when you're a first-genstudent or a low-income student,
you're like that you don't evenlook at that office, right, you
walk right by it and you'relike that's not even an option
for me that right.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
That's not for me not for me.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
So that was one of my first missions.
How can we get first genstudents participate in things
like study abroad, undergradresearch, things like that?
So I joined an undergradresearch working group.
Our task is to get first genstudents to apply for the
National Science Foundationgrant, which is really
prestigious National ScienceFoundation grant which is really
(21:08):
prestigious.
Yeah, so I've been on thatcommittee since I've started.
We met yesterday, like we'remeet biweekly, and just a great
group of people who are alltrying to accomplish the same
goal.
But a big thing that I wouldlike to know is the study abroad
aspect.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
So we created a study abroad program.
We went to Costa Rica.
We had 15 out of the 24students who went were first gen
, which was the highest numberof first gen students in one
program.
So this was kind of our pilotyear, right, like, since I had
just started I was like I'm justsetting off a few months later
(21:44):
to Costa Rica with thesestudents.
But it was amazing being therein the ocean with them and they
were telling me like if I didn'tknow about your office, never
saw your emails, because we dida lot of promotion and marketing
for it and just trying tochange the narrative of like
this isn't for you, right?
That's what they usually think.
And just in that one program,like, I've already seen a
(22:05):
difference in first-gen studentsreaching out, discussing study,
the study abroad.
They think it's an option forthem now and they've seen some
of the other students who wentyou know, hearing their friends'
experiences.
So I'm excited to see what wedo next.
We are planning something forspring of 2026.
Very, very excited.
We're going to go visit thatcountry this January to kind of
(22:27):
scope it out.
But I'm already tellingstudents like we're going to
have a first gen only trip, sothis will just be first gen
students.
We're calling it first to flyand there's hefty scholarships.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
That's awesome, that's fantastic and this is
like an alternative spring breakthen, so students don't have to
commit to being away for asemester.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Yeah, it's a short-term faculty-led trip that
they get class credit for.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
I love that.
That's fantastic, very exciting.
Okay, I'm not going to ask youto share the sneak preview of
where you're going, so you know,just in case your students are
listening.
They'll be like I knew first.
That sounds amazing and I dothink that all of those
experiential learning pieces arereally important to first-gen
students because it gives them aprofessional network and it
(23:16):
does take them out of theircomfort zone yet again in some
ways.
Right, I mean, coming tocollege might be out of their
comfort zone, but then studyabroad or an internship, you
know, going into thatprofessional setting is just
going to give them just such arich college experience.
So, yeah, I think that's so keyand it's amazing all the things
that you're getting started andI love how you are thinking of
(23:41):
it as and you can tell me ifthis is how you are thinking of
it but what I'm taking away isyou're a hub, but you spoke out
to a lot of differentdepartments and people who then
interact and share theirexpertise with the students that
you're serving.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Yeah, I can't claim to be the expert right, the goal
and vision of our office, sinceI am a one-person department.
I meet with students one-on-one.
They can make an appointmentwith me.
I've set office hours, butreally it just I want to get
them to the right expert right.
Because we're so big, we havewhich is amazing, we have those
resources, we have the expertsto go talk about their finances
(24:19):
with.
So I do meet with students andchat with them about their
personal struggles.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
And a lot of the conversations are around you
know, what's next after theirbachelor's degree?
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Are they going to go to grad school?
Worries about entering adultlife?
Right.
Then we have to figure outagain first-gen doesn't leave
you, right, that identity.
Then you're entering theworkforce and then you're
considered a first-genprofessional.
Yeah, it's a hard thing tonavigate after college and the
logistics like your health care,your 401k yeah, yeah, that is a
(24:53):
lot of what we mean about.
And then just first gen.
First gen scholarships thatI've met with several students.
Uh, just, you know they'reworried about the payment plan
was due last week and so, youknow, the first one of the
semester and just trying to helpstudents, keep them here, right
, like, if, again, you canafford it, how can we assist
them any further than that?
Speaker 1 (25:14):
So yeah, yeah, I love that and I said this on a
previous podcast.
But my belief is always that ifwe admit them to the university
, then we need to do everythingwe can to keep them and help
them graduate.
You know, as long as they'rewilling to meet us halfway.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Yeah, so that is how we crafted our office mission.
We kind of our slogan iscelebrates for an honor, which
sounds like your intro of thepodcast, which is amazing.
I thought it was funny.
We're all again.
We're all here across thecountry.
That is our main mission, right, we serve similar students in
similar demographics at eachdifferent types of institutions,
but I think we all have thesame core mission.
(25:51):
Yes, so yeah, I looked at whatother universities are doing,
what are some of the successes,and really took it from there
and we've crafted.
Within my board, my advisoryboard, and I have a couple other
subcommittees as well I'vecrafted the office mission to
really create a creative,celebratory community on campus
(26:13):
of not just grad students buttheir parents, families, right,
alumni, faculty and staff,because we can't just think
about students.
We got to think about everyoneelse who identifies as first gen
and the people that areconnected to them.
First gen allies is what wewould call them, right?
Yeah, so our vision has reallycrafted recently.
(26:33):
Again, we're going into year twoand I'm like let's narrow down.
What can we say in the nextfive years?
Where are we headed?
Right, this office, and there'sa lot of goals and missions
along with it, but it goes backto retention and graduation rate
.
So part of how my position wasfunded through the Higher
Learning Commission HLC that wasone of the core missions was
(26:56):
focusing on first generationefforts and getting graduation
retention rates up, and so ourvision is to.
We currently at 2019 was thelatest data set from the
four-year graduation rate, whichis about 45.8.
We're going to try to get it upto 48.
So 2.2% difference Doesn'tsound like much by 2027, next
(27:16):
four years, but I think all theinitiatives that I'm discussing
here really goes back into thatcore mission and vision.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Yeah, and I think I like how you're thinking of it
as a whole ecosystem of you know, not only undergraduates, but
also including, you know,faculty and staff and allies and
everyone, because we know thatif you support first gen
students, you're reallysupporting and building support
for all the students.
And then you know, as you see,your graduation rates rise.
(27:48):
And was that your graduationrate just for first gen or for
overall?
Speaker 2 (27:52):
That's just first gen .
Yeah it's lower than thenon-first gen peers.
The non-first gen peer is 62%.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Okay, all right.
So I imagine the goal would beat least to get to that point
and then to overtake that.
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Long-term thinking.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Right, I love it.
I love it.
So what?
What, besides the the springstudy abroad that obviously
people are now talking about,what are some other things that
you found that resonate withstudents that you've done
recently?
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Yeah, we're really excited about Tri-Alpha.
We recently created a chapterat our university, trialpha.
We recently created a chapterat our university and TriAlpha
is a nationwide honor societyfor first-gen students, but not
just students alumni, honoreestudents who are affiliated with
your university, and alsofaculty and staff who are
first-gen.
(28:42):
They didn't have to attendMizzou, but just any first-gen
faculty and staff member if theyidentify as such.
But just any first gen facultyand staff member if they
identify as such can be inducted.
So we're rolling it out thisfall.
We just sent the emails tostudents a couple of weeks ago.
We already have close to it'sclose to 100 who have applied
and joined, which is really,really exciting.
We have about 30 faculty andstaff who are going to be
(29:04):
inducted and the deadline isstill not for another month.
So I am hoping those numberswill rise.
But I was, so I was like really, really excited.
I was kind of nerding out whenI saw the first person apply for
triumph club, because we didn'tknow what to expect.
Right, this is a new initiativeand, um, I think just having an
honor says that it showcases tothe upperclassmen with a 3.2
(29:27):
gpa that we're here to supportand honor them in any way we can
and this is just one new way tohave a yearly induction
ceremony on National First GenDay.
We're going to have it onNovember 8th.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
I was going to ask you if you were going to yeah,
yeah, yeah, of course thatFriday.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
So we're going to have cake and punch and live for
their families to celebratewith them.
But again, just another waythat we can show support for
those students.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Yeah, yeah, I love that that celebratory piece is
so important.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
We always go back to the celebratory and our
messaging when we were, becausea lot of building a new office
is the marketing and promotionaround it.
Right, because since you're new, no one really knows what
you're doing.
And since it's a brand newoffice, is the marketing and
promotion around it right,because since you're new, no one
really knows what you're doingand since it's a brand new
office, you have to also createthe office mission.
Right, all of that, but alsothe, the slogans right, and the
marketing that we use.
(30:19):
So we have proud to be firstgen.
Buttons that everyone wearsacross campus.
Um, I hand out all of the stuffwhen I'm tabling.
All the time.
We have the little stress ballsand parents love stress balls
and stickers that have our logoas well, and then the office
flyers, and so again, t-shirtsand mugs and all the things.
(30:41):
But I think having thatcelebratory message in our
messaging, in our marketing andpromotion, I think creates,
because sometimes when you hearfirst gen, there's that stigma
or the deficit viewpoint, and soI really tried it that again it
comes back down to how can wecreate a culture at our
(31:02):
university where we'recelebrating, uplifting first gen
students and not looking atthem in a deficit manner because
they do have struggles comparedto their non-first-gen peers.
And I do a lot of professionaldevelopment training for faculty
and staff and advisors who workwith these students, because
(31:22):
it's good to know the data andthe facts around the students
nationwide and then what itlooks like at our university.
But then when we're actuallyspeaking with students, we want
to make sure that we understandsome of the deficits or the
struggles they face and thechallenges they face, but how
can we then help them throughthat in a more positive manner?
Speaker 1 (31:41):
right, right, right, yeah.
Yeah, I totally agree.
And because the deficit modelhas been around for so long,
there is some struggle to getrid of that and replace it with
a more positive point of viewwhen talking to these students.
(32:07):
But it sounds like you're doingtremendously well and students
are finding you and talking withyou and taking advantage of all
the things you have to offer.
What's next Like?
What are your blue sky ideas?
And then, what are your like?
We're definitely going to dothis, no matter what.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
So we were excited to get into the First Scholars
Network that is, through FirstGen Forward, formerly known as
Center for First Gen StudentSuccess, that third party
nonprofit who helps.
They created National First GenCelebration Day and then we
turned it into a week and nowthe whole month of November is
like my Super Bowl, like we hostso many events throughout
(32:46):
November celebrating students.
But I always like to know youknow we're not just celebrating
you one day, one day or onemonth.
We host monthly social eventsthrough our student org.
That was new.
It got created last year,became an official student org
and I advise that.
So we have a whole new execboard.
It was founded by this greatsenior who graduated this past
(33:08):
May, already has a job inCalifornia, very proud of him,
and we have a new president anda whole new exec board who
really wants to create somethingspecial with us and have a kind
of safe space for first-genstudents to come together and
build community.
Community because the researchshows right if they get involved
(33:28):
, not just in the things Imentioned before but with each
other and make connections withstudents and with other faculty
and staff.
We know the research shows ifthey interact or have a mentor
with faculty that thatgraduation rate skyrockets there
.
So really building thatcommunity and having just fun
social events.
We've done game night, movienight, paint and sip.
(33:52):
We did a vision board craftnight the other day Super fun,
but just fun, silly ways to gettogether and meet each other and
I'm like, if you meet one, Ilove when I see a student like
meet a friend, like exchangingSnapchats with each other.
It's just really fun to watch.
So I'm right there with thestudents.
(34:14):
I work a lot of nights andweekends trying to just plan fun
events for them.
And we have the whole committeefor national first gen
celebration week.
I have close to 15 to 20departments representing.
So we that's fabulous events.
We held 22 events last year, um, and so very excited to see
what this year will bring and um, just got the t-shirts ordered
for that.
We're gonna have tie-dye veryfun things coming up.
(34:34):
But where we're really workingon aside from students and
getting them involved, I had totake a step back and think right
, we're always focused onstudents and how can we better
them?
What about the first-genfaculty and staff as well, and
alumni, right, those componentslike I mentioned before, and so
we had a windfall of faculty andstaff reaching out to me
(34:57):
recently because we put a callto action in the Provost
newsletter asking for first-genfaculty and staff who identify
as such and would like to belisted in our directory on our
website.
So we have close to 90 facultyon there so far about 50 staff.
It's going to keep growing.
Got emails already today aboutit and just really trying to
(35:21):
gather a list of who is firstgen right, because again, the
research shows, if a studentsees, sees, they're you know oh,
that chemistry professor I havea class on tuesday he's first
gen.
Now they're more likely to gospeak with them and we know that
that interaction can create areally sense of belonging, yeah,
yeah and that's a big portionof our office mission is that's
(35:44):
belonging.
That works specifically.
So really just gatheringfaculty and staff.
What can we do with this newinitiative?
I created a tab on our websitetrying to gather interest of.
Should we create like a monthlycoffee chat?
Maybe we have a book club anddiscuss scholarly research on
first-gen topics?
(36:04):
Um read one book a semester butreally just gather us together
as a community and lean on eachother who share that identity as
first-gen professionals because, like I mentioned before, that
identity never really leaves youand in academia, in higher
education, sometimes there'sthat stigma around labeling
yourself as first-gen faculty orstaff member.
(36:25):
But I think just beingtransparent about it and showing
our students that we also havesimilar stories to them and how
we created pathways, I thinkit's really inspiring for
students to see.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Yeah, agree 100%.
I think the more people who arewilling to share that they have
a similar background, the moreour students sort of see it and
believe it that they can do someof the things that they've been
hoping to do when they're incollege.
Yeah, yeah, love it.
All right.
So you've created this program.
It's still new, you know,you're still working on things.
(36:58):
So what would you say tosomeone who, right now, you out
there listening and you're like,oh, I want to start a program
like this.
I have some funding, or I don'thave some funding, but I want
to start it, selena, what wouldyou suggest that they ask gather
?
Speaker 2 (37:17):
do you have to build a rapport with the other staff
and faculty on campus whosupport that vision and mission
If you're trying to create andbuild a first-gen office from
the ground up and I know a lotof universities are doing that
currently I went to professionalNASPA conferences right when I
first started really self-taughtand looked at all the research
(37:39):
on first-generation specifictopics and I think some of the
challenges have been fundingright.
If you're not grant funded,such as Treehouse SS or having
donors, I think you have tostart small and realize who your
supporters are, because itreally comes down to like I
can't do the work myself as aone person department but I
(38:00):
never work alone, right?
So you're always collaboratingwith other partnerships, so
finding those folks in yourcorner who support it.
If you're, if this is a brandnew initiative, I would form a
committee and look at thedefinition that you have at the
university.
What is the definition offirst-gen?
Right?
Because that is.
I do a whole PD training, twohours discussing this to faculty
(38:22):
and staff, and there's peopleon my board who didn't realize
the convoluted messaging behindthe definition.
Right, there's one legaldefinition we take from the TRIO
legislation, but it gets prettycomplicated because every
university, community, collegehas different definitions and
there's a lot of articleswritten about this.
(38:43):
But how do we create one soliddefinition?
So if there's not already onesolid definition, then where are
you asking it?
Right?
So, thankfully, we already hadit on our admissions application
and some folks can take thatdata from the FAFSA as well, but
not every student fills outFAFSA.
So, double checking your dataand assessment and starting from
(39:04):
there, of who is first gen,what is the percentage?
How do we gather communicationto these students, right?
So I gathered the report theyget about weekly emails from me
on a newsletter about specificfirst gen topics.
So I sent one out the other dayabout a scholarship opportunity
for first gen students and anevent that we did on Wednesday
(39:25):
and so really specific messaging.
And then I found the incomingprospective students who
indicated they were first in onthe admissions application and I
just sent them a postcardsaying we celebrate you and
telling them about our officeand a link to the website so
they know even before they'vestepped on campus.
Love that they have a resourcefor them.
(39:46):
So I think starting with thedefinition in the incoming
students will kind of help buildthe programs for current
students as well yeah, I lovethat we celebrate you and then
sharing what, what the officedoes, that's, that's just.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
If I saw that, I'd just smile because I'd be like,
wow, like, yeah, like somebody'scelebrating me, love the next
school.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
I want to add the stickers and buttons in that
postage to their home.
I think yes.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Nice and I didn't ask you this, but are you under
student life?
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Yeah, we're actually housed under undergraduate
studies.
Ok, so we're located in theStudent Success Center, which
has again a lot of the otherresource offices serving
students with the objective ofsuccess.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Nice, that's fantastic.
Is there anything else you youwant folks to know, like how to
contact you, or or if they havean idea, or they want to pick
your brain because they're aboutto do what you have done?
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Yeah, I met with other folks just a few in the UM
system, university of Missourisystem.
We have a few schools trying tocreate something similar,
similar programs, and sodefinitely open to Zoom chats or
phone calls or emails.
It's selenamindsetmissouriedu.
Everything is also on ourwebsite, so
firstgenerationatmissourieu Veryproud of that website.
(41:04):
We're slowly, slowly buildingit.
Tons of great info on there.
I always refer students,parents, faculty staff.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
We have a tab for everybody.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Yes, Definitely the place to go.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
It is a great and inclusive website of all those
groups, so I really likedchecking that out.
So I'll put the email addressyour email address and the
website in the show notes so ifanybody's listening in the car,
you don't have to pull overright now, Write it down or
memorize it.
Later on you can check the shownotes and get that information.
So thank you, Selena, so muchfor coming on and talking about
(41:36):
this great program that you'redeveloping.
Hopefully we can revisit in acouple of years and then you can
say, like I have a staff ofthis many people and we're doing
all these things, and you canmaintain your sanity and not
just burst into flames fromtrying to be three places at
once with your wagon.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Yes, yes, well, thank you so much.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
Yeah, thank you for being here with me today and if
you want to get in touch with me, you can find me at Jen, that's
J-E-N.
At firstgenfmcom and at mywebsite is firstgenfmcom.
I look forward to talking withyou again next week and, as
always, I love to hear a ratingand review and helps other
(42:19):
people find the podcast.
Thanks so much for today andwe'll talk to you next week.
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