December 13, 2023 • 50 mins
What does it feel like to navigate the world of academia as a first-generation and working class graduate student? This week, I had the privilege of exploring this question with Lauren Harvey, a current PhD student at Rice University. With personal experiences and a wealth of insights brimming from her own journey, Lauren doesn't hold back as she delves into the challenges, triumphs, and the unique struggles of her academic life.
This episode is an exploration of the reality of being a first-generation graduate student. Echoing through her stories are the cultural shocks, the unease of feeling out of place, and the struggles associated with financial constraints. But Lauren’s story is not just about the struggles. We also explore the power of journaling, a tool she used effectively for processing and understanding her experiences, and delve into her article titled, "A Guide for First-Generation Working Class Grad Students". The theme of the three Cs - community, consciousness raising, and claiming space - forms the backbone of surviving and thriving in the world of academia.
As we wrap up our engaging conversation, Lauren emphasises the critical importance of support, especially from faculty and staff who can truly understand the unique struggles of first-generation students. She stresses the need for compassion and humanity in academic spaces, and a call for more an empathetic and inclusive approach to students' experiences. If you're a first-generation student or if you're someone supporting them, this episode is a gold mine of experiences, insights and guidance.
Bio
Lauren Harvey is a graduate student of Sociology at Rice University. Her research examines inequality in higher education using insights from feminist theory. She is currently working on a project that identifies the institutional effects on social-psychological outcomes of first-generation, working-class students.
Please help others find this podcast by rating and reviewing wherever you listen!
You can find me at https://www.firstgenfm.com/ and on LinkedIn. My email is jen@firstgenfm.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Hi and welcome to First Gen FM, a podcast for
educators who want to learn moreabout serving, working with,
celebrating first generationcollege bound and college
students.
Welcome, lauren, to First GenFM.
I'm really excited to have youhere today.
Thank you, I'm super excited tobe here, nice.
(00:36):
So we're here with LaurenHarvey, who is a PhD student at
Rice University down in Texas insociology.
So, a little different from,like, all of us who are in
education, who have studiededucation but most of us who
have studied education areprobably studied other things as
well but I know from having hadsome students who were grad
(00:58):
assistants of mine, who were insocial work, that it's a really
different way of looking atthings and thinking about things
and I learned so much from them.
So, lauren, I'm really excitedto learn even more from you
today, especially about thatarticle you talked about, but
we'll get to that in a minute.
I first asked my usual question, which is what was the spark
(01:21):
that said like I want to writethis article or I want to help
people more in education?
What got you going on the path?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
you're on.
Yeah Well, I mean, my researchinterests have always kind of
centered around education,education access and inequality
and things like that.
So I think I've always beenwell, at least during my college
experience like very attuned tokind of what was going on
around me, for myself, for otherpeople, in their educational
(01:52):
experiences.
So, of course, going into thefirst year of graduate school, I
was journaling all the time.
I literally brought a journalnot an academic like taking
notes journal, like a personaljournal with me in my backpacks,
class, and anytime I would getoverwhelmed or frustrated or
confused I would rip out thejournal and just start like
(02:17):
journaling, like right there inclass, because I was like I
can't lose this memory of theseexperiences.
And so, yeah, I think you know,after the end of the first year
at least, it kind of felt likeyou know that metaphor for like
pressures, making diamonds orwhatever it is.
So I kind of came out the otherend, as you might say, and that
(02:39):
was just the first year.
But I came out the other endand kind of had like a okay,
like I can look at this from akind of bird's eye view, point
of view now and be more notobjective, because I hate that
word, but I can be more kind ofimpartial to what my experience
was, and you know it's lessemotional now.
(03:02):
You know, thinking back on itand I think that there was a lot
of things I experienced that,even though I didn't you know a
lot of other people experiencingit or I should say hear about a
lot of other peopleexperiencing it I knew that it
had to not be just my experience.
I just knew it couldn't be.
(03:22):
So that was kind of the sparkfor the article itself and yeah,
the rest is history.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah, yeah.
So do you feel like you'reexperiencing?
So you say in the article thatyou were first generation and
working class when you went tocollege and obviously that
continues into grad school.
Is there anything in yourundergrad experience that
prepared you for the, for goingthrough that first gen working
class experience again in gradschool?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Absolutely.
I had some pretty phenomenalmentors women mentors throughout
my undergraduate experience andI went to the large kind of
public university in my hometownso it wasn't like I was going
there specifically for thementorship experience, like I
(04:14):
just got really lucky and veryprivileged to have had
relationships with the peoplethat I had there.
One of the main kind offormative experiences and that
prepared me for graduate schoolin general was the McNair
Scholars Program, which is oneof the national TRIO programs,
(04:34):
and I had two really greatmentors there.
I met some of my best friendsin the program and that program
is for underrepresented studentsin graduate school, so students
from low income and workingclass backgrounds and
predominantly students of color.
So that was a lot of not justthe literal financial support to
(05:00):
help you apply to graduateschool and here's how you do
your application, but also likethe you know, learning how to be
a professional a quote, unquoteprofessional and kind of the
learning, the lingo of theacademy and like all of these
things that people don't reallythink about when they think
(05:21):
about you know graduate school.
They kind of just think aboutall the research and then you
get the stipend and then you,you know, teach a couple of
classes or whatever, but likethat's a fraction, I think, of
what the working classexperience is like in graduate
school.
So that was one of my mainpreparations.
And then, even before I got intothe McNair Scholars Program, I
(05:42):
had a really, really wonderfulmentor who actually was the one
who encouraged me to apply tograduate school.
She's first gen and she'sworking class herself and you
know I she was.
She was my women's studiesmajor the first semester of
undergrad.
So like the very first likeclass that I had, I walked into
(06:03):
her classroom and was likewomen's studies, like this is
about like women's health, right, which it is not about women's
health, it's about someone's,more than that.
But you know, like, coming in,being like totally like I have
no idea what's going on here,and she really like I think she
really like saw herself in meand so you know, I started
(06:24):
working in the department thatshe was in as a student worker,
like a front desk attendant, andI remember her one of like the
very, very formative experiencesof my undergrad was, you know,
she always helped me throughoutthe whole experience.
But when application timerolled around to apply for
McNair, she was like, hey, haveyou, have you thought about
(06:46):
McNair, like do you know what itis?
I was like yeah, I heard of itBecause I was in the earlier
Trio program, Trio SSS.
I heard of it but honestly,like I don't really know if I'm
going to do it or not.
And you know, maybe I'll applynext year or something, when I
have like more experience andlike I'm more prepared.
(07:07):
But I just don't know.
I don't really know like whatgraduate school is.
So like I don't know, I don'tknow, Probably not.
I'm like you're going to apply,You're going to apply.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
She wasn't going to accept that answer.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
No, no, no, no.
And she said you're going toapply and when you get in I'm
going to be your mentor, and sothat I mean, that was that, and
of course I listened to her.
I was like well whatever you say, I mean you clearly know better
than I do, so I will.
And yeah, so so I would.
I would really say like it wasjust the mentorship and the
(07:43):
women in my life who, like, wereinsistent and like wouldn't
take no for an answer, like Isee this in you and you will,
you will, right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
I see the potential in you before you see it, and so
I'm going to.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
I'm going to push you yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
That's wonderful.
Yeah, that's such a good story,and mentors are just so
significant.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Yeah, absolutely yeah .
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Yeah, and tell me then before, before we talk
about your articles and I'lltease the three C's that you
talked about in your article.
What were some shocks then?
So you know you have greatsuccess, obviously because you
got into grad school.
You got into PhD program atRice.
You had great successnavigating undergraduate.
(08:29):
You get to graduate school andthere's some things that are
surprising and unexpected andyou know cultural changes, yeah.
So what were some of those?
You know that you thought likeokay, I've navigated this, like,
but wait, this is different ingrad school.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Yeah, yeah.
So I mean, well, first of all Imoved across the country for
graduate school.
So there's the kind of just Imean I think for anyone when you
like make a big life transitionright, like not just to
graduate school but likephysical life transition, it's
like kind of you lose your senseof self for a little bit there
(09:09):
and it takes you a while to kindof get regrounded.
So like there was just thatbasic component to it and you
know I had being in McNair.
I was kind of prepared for somethings.
I was like you know I'm goingto be with a lot of people who
you know, most people who go tograduate school have parents who
have at least a bachelor'sdegree.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Like.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
I knew all of these like demographic things.
I obviously knew like financialchallenges were a thing and I
thought, you know, like I haveresearch experience under my
belt, I'm, you know, I there'snothing I don't know.
There's nothing that anyoneelse knows, that I don't know,
but that's just not true.
Going into the first year, Ithink some of the like shocks or
(09:52):
just like things I wasn'texpecting was just kind of this
way of being a way of you knowgoing about the world.
That was like new to me and itsounds so weird and it's hard to
articulate.
But I think, like a lot of youknow working class students, I
(10:13):
think a lot of like non-workingclass students, students of
color, you know, experience thiskind of like habitus shift.
I'm a sociologist, right, soPierre Bourdieu is like very,
very important and big and in mydiscipline and this idea that
like just the way that wepresent ourselves like
(10:33):
physically and the things thatwe're interested in, like those
all change a lot depending onyour class background.
And so like I came into a spacewhere, like the things that
people were talking about, I waslike who I've never heard of
that person before, or the waythat we, you know, talk about
really like big, importantissues in the world right now.
The way that I would have themwith my friends, have those
(10:57):
conversations with my friendsback home, was significantly
different than the way thatpeople were talking about them
in graduate school.
And so, you know, throwingaround all these like big words
and talking about all of theselike very important and complex
geopolitical systems, like itwas just like so much that I was
like I'm sorry, I'm justconfused, like just confusion
(11:18):
everywhere all the time, and solike it's those kinds of things
that are hard to articulate butthat you know, when you are in
those like social situationsyou're like oh yeah, no, this
place is not like for me, likethis is not where I'm supposed
to be, or at least that's howyou kind of feel when you're
(11:41):
walking through them.
So I would say that those arethe main shocks.
The other one, which I kind ofmentioned a little bit in my
article, was just like you know,I got my acceptance letter for
graduate school and it has likethe you know the stipend in
there of how much I'll be makingmy salary, and I was like score
, like yeah, I am rich, like itwas just like over the moon.
(12:07):
I was like I'm going to schooland they're paying me for five
guaranteed years, like, yes, andI get there, and everyone's
like are you kidding me?
This is ridiculous.
And even my institution is likeone of the better funded
institutions in the country andyou know, and there's so many
(12:31):
movements right now, like gradstudents all over the country
are unionizing for a living wage, and so that was like a shock
to me.
And not to say that like it's abad thing, of course, like we
need to be like advocating topay, you know, grad students
living wage, but like, but I wasrocked, like it was just, you
(12:53):
know, I was like, oh, I thoughtthat I did it, like I thought
that I got to the place and likeI was at the top of the
mountain and it looks like I amnot even close.
So that was another shock, itwas a humbling experience.
I would say, but yeah, so thoseare, I would say, are the main
things.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Yeah, yeah, those are big things and did your
journaling help with in thatfirst year, as you were coming
up against these things andhaving these realizations and
whipping out your journal atevery opportunity.
Did writing it down, talking itout like through your journal,
help with that?
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Yeah, it did, because the thing was that you know,
there's so much research andwriting on first generation
students in their undergraduateexperiences and of course, I
relied a lot on that during myundergrad and then when I got to
graduate school, like I wouldliterally open Google and be
like graduate students who arefirst generation and like just
like see if there was anything,and it was just it's so dry,
(13:58):
there's nothing.
There's nothing on graduatestudents who are first
generation, and so there was nolike words I could put to my
experience like other than likethe obvious, like finance.
You know, the financial stuffis always like easy to explain
because it's like A to B, butthe kind of social, the cultural
changes that were happeningthat I was experiencing, like
(14:21):
yeah, there was nothing.
So journaling really I thinkhelped me kind of articulate and
yeah, just articulate like allof those experiences on paper
where I was like okay, cool, I'mnot crazy, Like I actually do
have like these thoughts arecoming from a specific place and
they're real, they're not just,like you know me being
(14:43):
frustrated at everything for noreason.
So, yeah, it helped a lot.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Yeah.
And even when you look back andyou're like, well, you know it
wasn't that bad, yeah, exactly,it was pretty good, you can look
back and say, no, no, it wasthat bad and it was that hard
and you know, I did go throughsomething.
I should pat myself on the backbecause, like I've succeeded.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Yeah, absolutely Like that was, I think, at the time.
Looking back now I'm like, oh,this is great writing material.
But like at the time when I wasactually doing the journaling,
I was like, oh no, I don't wantto forget any of this, like I
don't want to let like theharshness of this experience
like be doled down over time, soI need to write it down.
I need to write it down andyeah, so that definitely worked
(15:28):
out.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Yeah, you know it's interesting, as you were talking
about both your undergrad andgraduate experience, one of the
things that I kept thinkingabout, and you actually said
this, so it's not like I'mcoming up with something
brilliant off the out of thinair, but it's not about the
doing.
It's about the being.
It's.
I can do the work, I canunderstand the concept, I can
(15:52):
write a research paper, like Iknow how to do that from grads,
from undergrad going to gradschool, but just being like who
I am at the core is differentfrom others, and then how do I
sort of make the space and findmy place in that?
Yeah, it seems to me like that'sthe thread that's run through
(16:13):
this and even through yourarticle.
So Inside Higher Ed is whereyou'll find the article and I'll
link to it in the show notes.
And the article was called aguide for first generation
working class grad students.
So tell me what made you decideto write and then send it off
to submit it.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Well, I knew I wanted to like write something public
facing and like an informal tone.
I wanted to write for, like, mypeople.
Like I didn't want to like comeup.
I didn't want it to be somelike academic journal article
that blocks behind a paywall.
Like I wanted it to besomething that, like anybody
could read, because they are nowme in the situation who is like
(16:55):
typing into Google likegraduate students and how to get
through the first year.
So I'm hoping that, like thecomputer machine wizard will do
whatever it does and like pullup my article when those
students are searching through.
But that was the motivation for,you know, publishing it in
Inside Higher Ed, because I hadbeen like assigned articles from
(17:18):
Inside Higher Ed in myundergrad.
I was like, ok, I know thatlike students read this, so that
was important to me.
And then, you know, I was kindof a little bit challenged with
the idea of like.
So I'm only talking about thisthis first year.
How much advice do I reallyhave?
You know how much.
How much reliability do Ireally have to be giving advice
(17:39):
at this stage in my career?
And it's like one.
You know, I do try to strayaway from just being like you
have to do this, this and this.
You know more.
Just share my experiences andalso the context that I'm aware
of a first generation student,so there's like some data in
there as well.
But but the other thing wasjust like who better to like
(18:03):
talk about the first year ofgraduate school than like a
first year graduate student, youknow?
Speaker 1 (18:09):
right, so I've been through it.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yeah, and I had, of course I've I've read, you know,
articles from faculty atvarious institutions talking
about, like, how to get throughyour first year as a graduate
student.
Like, of course I had read allof these things, but they just
like, oh, didn't quite do it forme.
It was like, yeah, I mean, Iknow I'm supposed to, you know,
(18:32):
reach out to my professors oftenand and try to, you know,
collaborate, like all of thesethings I know is just like the
other stuff, the other stuff Ineed like information on.
And so I think that's where,like the experience as a
graduate student who literallyjust did this, like just came
out of this experience, isreally beneficial and I hope, I
(18:55):
hope it's beneficial for otherstudents reading it or or people
you know who even are in theircareers now, who, yeah, who can
benefit from it and who had thatexperience as well.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Yeah, well, I mean I I read it from the point of view
of somebody who works withundergraduate students, who
wants to be able to support themto go to grad school and
prepare them if they choose togo to grad school, and so you
know it reached, even thoughit's targeted towards grad
students, it certainly reachedmultiple audiences.
I would say yeah.
So let's dive into that articlea little bit and I encourage, I
(19:28):
encourage you to read it.
But let's dive into it a littlebit and talk about your, your
tips to survive and thrive thatyou came up with, and there were
three C's communityconsciousness raising and
claiming space.
So share with, share with withme and with you who are
listening.
What, why did you come up withthose three?
(19:48):
And you know how, what advicedid you give in that article?
And what would you add now thatmaybe you didn't get to write
because you were worried aboutword count?
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Oh yeah, the word count was I think I cut about
half of the article and I'm likenot even joking when I say that
.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
So now you get to hear the other half.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
So we get the whole.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Thing.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Yeah, well, I'm.
So.
First I should just say likeI'm not creative at all when it
comes to like titles and likenaming things.
So like the three C's, I waslike, oh, I'm on roll, like this
is great, this is.
But I really just like when Isat down to write it, obviously
(20:28):
like I wrote the first part butthen I needed like takeaways and
I'm like, oh God, this is wherethe, the advice part comes in,
and I had all these insecuritiesabout like giving advice and so
I just thought like literally,how did I get through it?
Like just what?
Like I needed to do a littlereplay of the whole past, you
know, first year in my head, andwhat did I do?
(20:50):
Like what did I rely on?
What was you know, my, how didI get through it?
And that's kind of whereobviously they weren't like
originally, like I didn't namethem that.
But the three C's are what thephenomenon were, that I, you
know, like experienced andunderwent to get to the second
(21:11):
year and not quit my first year.
So community obviously is hugeand I think that, like you read
anything on anything difficultin any human life, and it's like
community and we're, you know,I mean we're in such an
individualistic world.
But we're definitely in such anindividualistic society and so,
(21:33):
especially when you get intothe academy and it's like you
know, publisher parish and a lotof graduate students don't
receive the same stipends aseach other.
You know, we don't all haveequal funding.
I'm really thankful at myinstitution we do but so there's
all these like roadblocks andobstacles in this graduate
(21:56):
school experience.
That is kind of like reallytrying to pull you away from
other people.
It's trying to like tell you,like you need to, like you know,
pull yourself up by yourbootstraps, you need to just
succeed, climb to the top of themountain by yourself, like, if
you want to, you need to go getit and, like you know, you'll be
the victor, You'll be out ontop in the end.
(22:17):
And it's just like that's notreality, like that's just not
how it works.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
For anyone.
It's never about you, just doit on your own and it's just you
.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Exactly and especially not like in my
experience, because it's likeyou know, I just I just said all
the people who like helped meget to where I was.
So that's not going to justlike stop here.
So I really relied on communityand that's like hard and kind
of sounds like not hypocritical,but like it doesn't make a lot
of sense when you're in a spacewhere you don't feel like there
(22:51):
is a lot of community for you.
So for me and I'm like ahardcore introvert too so like I
wasn't about to be going outyeah, I wasn't about to be going
out every single weekend andtrying to like make friends with
everyone on campus and like allof that's like it just wasn't.
And you know you're adjustingto a new place Like just no,
it's not going to happen.
But what I did rely on a lot waslike there were a few graduate
(23:14):
students in my program that Idid get close with and I think
that that was important.
But it was also important that Ilike maintain ties with my
friends back home, like myfriends who were in McNair with
me and you know, even one ofthem was is going through a
master's degree program rightnow, and so we're still kind of
having similar experiences as wemove through graduate school.
(23:35):
And even my friends who didn'tgo to graduate school Like it's
really grounding to be able tolike still rely on your
community, even if you're 2000miles away from them, in my case
.
And then the other form ofcommunity actually I would say
it's kind of twofold is thecommunity who's kind of in the
middle where they understandthat experience, but maybe
(23:59):
they're not, you know, they'renot in your program with you,
and so, like my undergrad mentor, she has been like so
incredibly important and vital,obviously not only to my success
in undergrad but like ingraduate school now too.
And so there's that.
And then there's the readinglike being able to connect with
(24:21):
like authors and, because I'm anintrovert, of course, like
that's super, super easy for meto do, being able to connect
with like people whose booksI've read and like who have
spoken on things like this, thatlike would resonate with me and
the experiences that I washaving.
So those are all differentforms of community that I think
(24:43):
that any student like no matterlike where, can kind of engage
in and it doesn't have to looklike, you know, having like a
big group of like.
It's not the stereotypical kindof community that you think of.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Yeah, yeah, here's a question just popped into my
head.
Does studying sociology giveyou kind of like a leg up on why
community is so important?
Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yes, it does, and I would say in my experience, no,
it gives me a leg up on a lot ofother things, right?
Because as sociologists kind ofwhat we're trained as like, one
of the main things that we studyis like social interactions and
social groups and how most ofthe world around us, yeah, and
how most of the world around usis socially constructed in some
(25:32):
way, and so all of that, I feellike, does give me a lot of a
leg up, as like you know, likelooking at these things, but in
terms of like understandingcommunity.
That's not where I learned theimportance of community.
That is something that Ilearned from my personal
background as a working classperson of like you know, we're
(25:54):
not in the silo play, it's Idon't know.
It's the experience of like,when you need help, like there's
gonna be people around there tohelp you, because this is a
mutually beneficial communitythat you're in when you're
growing up of like there'salways somebody right there.
You know a million familymembers, a million.
You know your neighbors and thewhole block and everybody, and
(26:19):
so that kind of communalexperience is like, I think, is
what sets the foundation forthat knowing in graduate school,
even if I'm in a sociologydepartment.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Yeah, yeah, couldn't help but ask cause, just like
hmm, you know talking about theindividual and the
individualistic society thatwe're in, but then also knowing
that community is so importantand surrounding ourselves with
people who can lift us up and,you know, pick us up at the same
time.
So, yeah, yeah, nice, nice,yeah, I think.
Community and finding peoplewho will be there with you.
(26:55):
I think I read one article thatsaid that if you can find, like
, what sort of lights you up andthat you're excited about every
day, and if you have one personin your life that has your back
, you know, and specifically forcollege students, and probably
the same is true for graduatestudents then you will find a
(27:16):
way to survive and thrive.
If you have those two thingsand I'm like, you know, that's a
really that's a very sort ofsimplified way of looking at it,
but I think for a lot ofstudents, especially the, you
know, first gen students, that'sa really good piece of advice,
cause it's not overwhelming.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
I completely agree, because I can think of times
where I didn't feel as muchsupport and that didn't work out
.
And then there's times whenI've had a lot of support but
like I wasn't doing things thatI wanted to do and so it was
like you know.
But I think that, yeah, it'ssuper important.
And that's another thing tomention too is just like if
you're considering graduateschool, like consider, you have
(27:55):
to consider your why and likeare you going into something
that you really wanna do becauseyou know I'm not at the back
end of that yet, so I can'tconfirm for sure, but I have had
a lot of mentors say you knowyou have to do it because you
want to and because you have areason and a passion or a
something, some kind of spark,some kind of fire for it.
Because if you're going justfor the title for the degree,
(28:17):
like it's not gonna happen.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Yeah, Well, phd programs.
I mean, you're just so immersedin the subject and the
literature that you know youneed to love it because you're
deep diving into all of that.
So yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Then let's talk too aboutconsciousness raising.
Cause that to me, you know.
(28:41):
I think, like you said, a lotof people will talk about how
community is important, butconsciousness raising maybe not
so much.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Yeah, it's not as talked about, and I also think
that it's like a little bit moreabstract to think about, like
you know, like conscious, likewhat do you mean?
Like I'm awake, I'm likelooking around, what do you mean
?
But I think that it so.
(29:09):
This is where I feel like itgets a little bit harder to, you
know, talk about this in likean education way.
This is where I rely a lot moreon.
When I was an undergrad, I wasin, you know, gender and ethnic
studies and so, like this iswhere I rely a lot more on, like
feminist theory and all ofthese, you know, all of these
tools that I was kind of trainedwith as an undergrad to look at
(29:31):
the world around me and be likehmm, hmm and so and of course
that was like the hardest partof the article to like shave
down, because I was like no,this is essential, like I need
to mention this, and then theeditors were like no, no, no, no
, no.
But the editors were great, butI think I will definitely need
(29:52):
to write like another articlelater on about that.
But this idea of consciousnessraising, I think is really
rooted in the knowing that Onething is not like the other.
You know, from an experientialstandpoint, like from going
(30:12):
through graduate school, thefirst year of graduate school
myself, and being like huh, Ifeel like I don't belong here
and, like you said, the doingand the being are different.
Like I can write essays, I cando research to my heart's
content and I have no, I'm fullyconfident that I can do all of
(30:35):
those things.
It's the in-between stuff, it'sthe like lifeblood running
through the academy, kind ofstuff that is just like so much
more difficult.
And so I think a consciousnessraising journey or experience is
when you have that realization,and a lot of people do have
(30:56):
that realization.
But then it's about like, okay,what are the?
You have to realize that it'snot just a personal experience.
Like what are the systems, whatare the structures in place
that have made my experience theway that it is?
And you can talk about this ata higher ed level.
You could talk about this at abunch of like way more macro
(31:20):
levels.
Like we have a system of severeinequality in this country and
that doesn't just go away.
When you go into education, youknow there's like the saying,
like education is a greatequalizer, but that's been
heavily problematized,especially in, you know, higher
education and then also in mydiscipline in sociology as well.
(31:40):
So that's, I think, like whatthe path of consciousness
raising is, and for me,thankfully, having gone through
undergrad and having wonderful,wonderful, wonderful teachers, I
was equipped with a lot ofscholarship and knowledge, and
that's not even from, like anacademic standpoint of like this
(32:04):
is how this is another way oflooking at the world that is
very at odds, I would say, withthe structure of the academy,
but it is very healing and itfeels very liberating to have
that way of looking at the worldand thinking.
No, I think I'm going to do itthis way instead.
So one of my main researchinterests is black feminist
(32:28):
thought, and I rely a lot onblack feminist thought, not only
in, like my own research agendabut in the way that I like walk
through the world.
And so black feminist thoughtis this really long, very old
tradition of knowledge isoppressed knowledge is black
women talking about theirexperiences for other black
(32:50):
women.
That is so just beautiful andempowering, and I read it as a
white woman.
I'm a white woman, and I readit and I say, oh my God, like,
yes, like I see, like this.
This helps me too, and so it'sreally it's just really really
powerful to read those kinds ofthings.
(33:11):
I read a lot of bell hooks.
I think it at this point inwhile you're listening to the
podcast, like, if you're like solost right now on the
consciousness raising thing,bell hooks, teaching to
transgress I link it in thearticle is a must read.
Like you, you have to read it,especially if you're a working
class student, graduate school.
But she's kind of one of thelike seminal authors in this
(33:34):
kind of black feminist canon,especially as it relates to
education.
Because she talked a lot abouther education but talking about
like working class lives andunderstanding that the system of
higher education was initiallystructured as like, like
essentially like finishingschool for the, for the elite,
(33:57):
and so if that's how it startedand everything just grew from
there, then like, how do we fitinto that?
Like, where do black women fitinto that?
Where do just all women fitinto that?
Where do working class peoplefit into that?
Like, like, who, who is thisfor?
And so it's it's at this end ofthe consciousness raising
(34:20):
journey like you start learninghow to be strategic about your
identity and how you're studyingand in my field, sociology,
it's like we study predominantlyinequality, and so it's like
how do you be strategic aboutyour own knowledges, even if
they're you know different frommost other people in the academy
?
How do you be strategic withthose knowledges to then like,
(34:43):
do something that matters, doresearch that matters, or do
work that matters, if you're notgoing into an academic space in
the long term?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Yeah, how do you, how do you do what matters?
And it's also how do you bringyour voice into it so that
others can learn from you.
Yeah, I thought I reallyenjoyed that section.
I haven't read Bell Hook's bookyet, but it's on my, it's like
on my Kindle, just waiting, soit's so good.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
It's so good.
I I don't even have it's likehard to even articulate, like
the word I just yeah, yeah, ifyou like know me, if everyone
who knows me in like an academicspace, like I talk about this
book all the time, I just feellike it's like step one.
So, yeah, yes, everyone.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
And you hand it out to us Christmas gifts and you
know literally you need to readthis book.
Don't come back to me after youread it.
We'll have a discussion so yeah, exactly.
I love it, I love it.
Well, thank you for that.
And then your final one wasclaiming space, which I really
appreciate.
I think they, I think theconsciousness raising in the
claiming space go together.
They do, you know, obviouslyvery, very nicely.
(35:48):
So talk about why you wantstudents like you you know grad
working class, first gen toclaim space.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Yeah, so, okay.
So step one is just find somepeople to be in community with.
Then step two is you know, doyour consciousness raising word.
Do you know read the history ofyou know what higher education
is, who it's for?
You know read people whoinspire you and help you kind of
navigate.
(36:19):
You know, understand the worldaround you.
And then, once you're donedoing that, then you go into
your, your classes, to your,your research lab, to your
wherever, and you claim space.
And this one, I would say, outof the other two, is the one
that I am.
This is very much still like awork in progress for me and like
what that means exactly.
(36:40):
But I think claiming space it'snot just about like being like
the most talkative person inyour, in your courses, or like
having the most to contributeduring like research meetings
and things like that, but likefirst practicing within yourself
like I deserve to be here.
(37:02):
This space may not have beenmade for me, you know, it might
not be like the place that, likeI was expected to be, but like
I deserve to be here.
So, like the internalaffirmations and and the journal
, like the journaling for me, Ithink, is a way of claiming
space because it's it's the, theaudacity of not letting my
(37:25):
experiences like be hushed andmuted and like forgotten about
because that year is over.
So like that's like an internalway of claiming space and that
can happen, like nobody has tosee that happen, like.
So like you know, I mean Ithink that like as grad, like
just graduate students ingeneral, we have kind of like a
precarious position in theacademy, you might say, and so
(37:47):
we don't have a lot of like.
We, I would say we have a lotof like individual power, we
have a lot of collective poweras like a bunch of individuals
coming together as graduatestudents, but we don't, like we
don't get to make the rulesabout, like you know, the
intricacies of how our programworks or like how much money we
make.
We don't get any of thosedecisions.
(38:07):
So the internal kind ofclaiming space is the thing that
we can all do and nobody has tosee that happen, right.
But then I think the outwardclaiming space you have to be a
lot more strategic about.
Obviously, if you're like, youknow what I think this is, you
know this is inequality and I amnot going to do this and it's
(38:28):
like it's not going to work outfor you.
I'm sorry it just won't,because, you know, because
that's the space that we're in.
But being strategic about likemaking you know, like finding
mentors and people in yourinstitution who are you know,
who really do support you andwho kind of, if not knowing what
your experience is like, willlisten to you and you feel like
(38:51):
do care.
And then I think the otherstrategic part about that is,
you know, helping yourself firstand helping people in your
community first too, becausewe're in a weird place where,
like institutions are so like,excited to be like oh, oh, yes,
(39:12):
we have a huge first generationpopulation.
Look at all the things thatwe're doing for, like, hispanic
students on our campus, look atall the.
But then once we, the people whothey're like recruiting and,
like you know, advertising about, get onto those campuses, it's
like, okay, cool, like where'sthe spaces?
And they're like, oh, no, no,like that was, you know that was
(39:35):
just for the marketing email,like what do you mean so?
So you, I mean like recognizingthat and being like, okay, I'm,
you know, a lot of campuses arereally like the, the undergrad
institution that I came from,like we had a huge first
generation population and we hada first generation student
center, like a literal, likehuge area on campus, but not all
(40:00):
places have that.
And so it's about beingstrategic with yourself, of
being like okay, you know theywant me for this thing, you know
, and, and I can do that, I canprovide, I can be a great
research assistant, I can, youknow, do all the things I can.
Like you know I can do all thatstuff, but I need to be getting
(40:22):
something out of this too, likepeople like me be getting
something out of this too.
So being very, very intentionalwith, with the opportunities
you're taking the labor that youagree to put on yourself.
You know everyone's alwaysgoing to be asking do you want
to do this thing for me?
Do you want to throw thisworkshop and this?
And that has to be like youhave to be intentional about
(40:45):
like, do I want to do this?
Like should I?
Would this be best?
And so that's.
It's like a weird.
You know, by saying no, you'reactually claiming more space,
but like I think that those areall things that count under the
claiming space kind of umbrellaof being like your own, you know
, being able to stand on yourown two feet and say like yes
(41:08):
and no, and this is my decision,and and all that stuff.
So that's definitely still awork in progress for me.
But, you know, check back in inthree years and we'll see how
it's going.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Yeah, I might just do that.
You know, it actually seems tome that writing this article was
a way you claim space.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
I think so, I think so.
I think it's kind of like itwas kind of like a little player
of like, well, first of all,like I'm claiming this space
right here, but also is a playerto like, hopefully, other
students around the country andeven maybe outside of the
country, of being like, Okay,your turn, Like here we go,
let's do it, let's let's youknow, like build this kind of
(41:48):
network.
So so, yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Yeah, yeah, I love it .
I again.
If you haven't read the article, I highly recommend it.
And inside higher ed you canprobably just Google Lauren
Harvey inside higher ed and itwill pop up Again.
I'll put it in the show notesLauren.
Thank you so much for for allof this.
Is there any final advice you'dwant to give to the folks who
are working in higher ed abouthow to support students like you
(42:17):
who are coming in?
Things that we can do.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
Yes.
Well, I would say, beyond theobvious pay, graduate students,
living wage I would also, I mean, I think it's hard.
It's hard for faculty.
I'm not a faculty, so there'sanother side of this experience
that you aren't hearing rightnow, but it's it's hard,
(42:43):
especially if you yourself are afirst generation or working
class.
You know faculty members, staffmember, because being honest
and being open and vulnerableabout about that experience is
is I mean to be honest like it'sstill not something necessarily
that is like super, superempowering and like that you
know all, like all theseidentities.
(43:03):
So sometimes you know peoplemight not feel safe necessarily
revealing that about themselves,but if you know of like
students who are open about thisthemselves, like maybe
vocalizing that to them, likeknowing that the visibility is
so important, like as much aslike our institutions, like
hyper visibleize us, it's alsowe're like very invisible, like
(43:24):
in the day to day, because likeyou could walk around and just
be like yeah, nobody here getsme, and it's like that's not
true.
There are people, but like noteveryone's like vocal about
their experiences or it's notvisible, especially for places
that don't have like spaces,like institutional spaces on
campus for first generationpeople.
(43:44):
So I think that that's a bigone, like on the individual
level of like, just like facultywho have those experiences, or
staff members who have thoseexperiences, or even who don't
have those experiences of beinglike, hey, I see you, I see that
your set of experiences, orthat your background, that
you're, you know that you'recoming from a community that
(44:07):
feels like can sometimes be atodds with this place, like I
want to support you, help you.
So, yeah, just like theindividual support.
And then I also think that likeand I think this just goes for
graduate students in general,but like listening to students,
we very much know we're not theexperts and you know it's always
(44:30):
impressed upon us that we'renot the experts because we're
here to learn and we're here tolike become the experts and
things like that.
But we are experts in our ownexperiences and so I think that
you know a lot of times andagain, this is all in service of
that like you've got to gothrough tough things, you got to
harden in order to like be thebest researcher you can be.
(44:53):
I don't think that's always themost productive thing and I
don't know, maybe that's justlike me being a product of my
generation, but I just don'tthink that, like you know the
hardness and like struggleshould be a prerequisite yeah, a
prerequisite to you knowsuccess.
And so listening to studentsand they're like, you know this
is, you know, this is different.
(45:15):
This is something that, like,is weighing on me heavily, like
emotionally, you know whatever,because, because Gratvins do
uproot their lives to come andyou know, work for institutions,
for faculty members, for three,four, five, six, seven, eight
years, like so.
So I think listening tostudents about their experiences
(45:36):
and you know what they need isalso very important.
You know we don't there's a lotthat we don't see, a lot of like
you know, bureaucratic, kind ofbehind the scenes, you know,
behind the curtain, stuff thatgoes on, yes, in these
departments, and stuff that wedon't see.
And we don't necessarily, ofcourse, we don't understand
(45:57):
those things necessarily, but Ithink that like there's a level
of kind of humanity and likereciprocity that we need to
foster a little bit better inacademia, of like understanding
that like, like it's tough forall of us here, it's tough for
all of us.
It's not just, you know, thefaculty who are working their
(46:20):
butts off to like supportstudents, it's not just the
students themselves.
And so the listening componentand the kind of compassion has
to be, it has to be there,otherwise it's not, you know,
super healthy, a healthy space.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
Yeah, I agree, I agree with that 100%, and I
think it's also true that forthe year, three C's, I think
they're they're always changingright, because you're always
raising your consciousness to anext level.
You're all.
You're claiming space in newplaces, yeah, as you're going
through and you're justcontinuing to build community.
So it's a constant learning andcycle of things that you're
(46:57):
going through as a grad studentand and if you don't have that
sort of compassionate you knowmentor or faculty or staff
person or friends, you knowpeers to turn to it.
Just yeah, it just makes itmuch more of a struggle when it
doesn't need to be.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
Yeah, and that just made me think of another thing.
Like I think it's I'm at, I'm atthis kind of level in my
development, but then I get tosee, like graduate students who
have been in the program for afew years more than me and I can
like think of several right nowthat I'm like you know, like I
want to do what they're doing.
I want to be at a place wherethey're at like there's, there's
(47:36):
just so having like that lookup to of not just like material
success, of like oh my gosh,they've published this many
articles or they've done this,this, this but of like a like a
developmental, kind of likeconsciousness level, where it's
like like it's so nice to seepeople who are so like committed
(47:59):
to self growth and likeinternal psychological kind of
growth, not just like materialsuccess, and so that kind of
like is a reminder to like staystrong and like just keep doing
the internal work that you needto do to just be a better, a
better you, not a better studentor a better professional or
whatever, but like a better you.
So yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
well, I really appreciated this conversation.
Thank you so much for foragreeing to be on the podcast.
If, if a listener wants to getin touch with you, how can they
contact you?
Speaker 2 (48:34):
So I'm on LinkedIn.
I still don't know how to workthat robot.
I assume if you just type inLauren Harvey Rice University, I
should pop up.
So definitely LinkedIn, andthen my, my, also my email.
My email inbox is always open.
I I like emailing about notmeeting things and not, like you
(48:57):
know, work, activity, things.
So if anyone wants, emailsbasically, yeah, conversational
emails.
If anyone wants to email me,that'd be great as well, and my
email is LH52 at riceedu.
So, and yeah, you can.
You can look me up that way aswell.
Speaker 1 (49:19):
I'll put that and your LinkedIn in the show notes.
I'll put those links in.
I'll put a link to the bellhooks and the article in the
show notes as well.
Yeah, everyone will be readingbell hooks now and thank you.
And for anyone who wants toreach out to me, if you'd like
to be on the podcast or you havequestions or you have an idea
(49:40):
for a topic, you can find me atfirstgenfmcom or you can email
me at gen that's J-E-N atfirstgenfmcom and I'd love to
hear from you and get feedback.
Also, if you do me a favor andrate and review this podcast and
hopefully give me a five starreview, give Lauren a five star
review at least, because she wasfabulous to talk to.
I would love to have you dothat because it helps other
(50:02):
folks who are working with firstgen students, either in high
school or college, find thepodcast.
So thank you for joining me,lauren, and thank you for
listening and I will see youagain next week.
Or I would say I'll see youagain because I feel like I'm
talking with you, like you'reright here.
Yeah, we'll talk with you againnext week.
Thanks, thank you.
Hi and welcome to First Gen FM, a podcast for
educators who want to learn moreabout serving, working with,
celebrating first generationcollege bound and college
students.
Welcome, lauren, to First GenFM.
I'm really excited to have youhere today.
Thank you, I'm super excited tobe here, nice.
(00:36):
So we're here with LaurenHarvey, who is a PhD student at
Rice University down in Texas insociology.
So, a little different from,like, all of us who are in
education, who have studiededucation but most of us who
have studied education areprobably studied other things as
well but I know from having hadsome students who were grad
(00:58):
assistants of mine, who were insocial work, that it's a really
different way of looking atthings and thinking about things
and I learned so much from them.
So, lauren, I'm really excitedto learn even more from you
today, especially about thatarticle you talked about, but
we'll get to that in a minute.
I first asked my usual question, which is what was the spark
(01:21):
that said like I want to writethis article or I want to help
people more in education?
What got you going on the path?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
you're on.
Yeah Well, I mean, my researchinterests have always kind of
centered around education,education access and inequality
and things like that.
So I think I've always beenwell, at least during my college
experience like very attuned tokind of what was going on
around me, for myself, for otherpeople, in their educational
(01:52):
experiences.
So, of course, going into thefirst year of graduate school, I
was journaling all the time.
I literally brought a journalnot an academic like taking
notes journal, like a personaljournal with me in my backpacks,
class, and anytime I would getoverwhelmed or frustrated or
confused I would rip out thejournal and just start like
(02:17):
journaling, like right there inclass, because I was like I
can't lose this memory of theseexperiences.
And so, yeah, I think you know,after the end of the first year
at least, it kind of felt likeyou know that metaphor for like
pressures, making diamonds orwhatever it is.
So I kind of came out the otherend, as you might say, and that
(02:39):
was just the first year.
But I came out the other endand kind of had like a okay,
like I can look at this from akind of bird's eye view, point
of view now and be more notobjective, because I hate that
word, but I can be more kind ofimpartial to what my experience
was, and you know it's lessemotional now.
(03:02):
You know, thinking back on itand I think that there was a lot
of things I experienced that,even though I didn't you know a
lot of other people experiencingit or I should say hear about a
lot of other peopleexperiencing it I knew that it
had to not be just my experience.
I just knew it couldn't be.
(03:22):
So that was kind of the sparkfor the article itself and yeah,
the rest is history.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah, yeah.
So do you feel like you'reexperiencing?
So you say in the article thatyou were first generation and
working class when you went tocollege and obviously that
continues into grad school.
Is there anything in yourundergrad experience that
prepared you for the, for goingthrough that first gen working
class experience again in gradschool?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Absolutely.
I had some pretty phenomenalmentors women mentors throughout
my undergraduate experience andI went to the large kind of
public university in my hometownso it wasn't like I was going
there specifically for thementorship experience, like I
(04:14):
just got really lucky and veryprivileged to have had
relationships with the peoplethat I had there.
One of the main kind offormative experiences and that
prepared me for graduate schoolin general was the McNair
Scholars Program, which is oneof the national TRIO programs,
(04:34):
and I had two really greatmentors there.
I met some of my best friendsin the program and that program
is for underrepresented studentsin graduate school, so students
from low income and workingclass backgrounds and
predominantly students of color.
So that was a lot of not justthe literal financial support to
(05:00):
help you apply to graduateschool and here's how you do
your application, but also likethe you know, learning how to be
a professional a quote, unquoteprofessional and kind of the
learning, the lingo of theacademy and like all of these
things that people don't reallythink about when they think
(05:21):
about you know graduate school.
They kind of just think aboutall the research and then you
get the stipend and then you,you know, teach a couple of
classes or whatever, but likethat's a fraction, I think, of
what the working classexperience is like in graduate
school.
So that was one of my mainpreparations.
And then, even before I got intothe McNair Scholars Program, I
(05:42):
had a really, really wonderfulmentor who actually was the one
who encouraged me to apply tograduate school.
She's first gen and she'sworking class herself and you
know I she was.
She was my women's studiesmajor the first semester of
undergrad.
So like the very first likeclass that I had, I walked into
(06:03):
her classroom and was likewomen's studies, like this is
about like women's health, right, which it is not about women's
health, it's about someone's,more than that.
But you know, like, coming in,being like totally like I have
no idea what's going on here,and she really like I think she
really like saw herself in meand so you know, I started
(06:24):
working in the department thatshe was in as a student worker,
like a front desk attendant, andI remember her one of like the
very, very formative experiencesof my undergrad was, you know,
she always helped me throughoutthe whole experience.
But when application timerolled around to apply for
McNair, she was like, hey, haveyou, have you thought about
(06:46):
McNair, like do you know what itis?
I was like yeah, I heard of itBecause I was in the earlier
Trio program, Trio SSS.
I heard of it but honestly,like I don't really know if I'm
going to do it or not.
And you know, maybe I'll applynext year or something, when I
have like more experience andlike I'm more prepared.
(07:07):
But I just don't know.
I don't really know like whatgraduate school is.
So like I don't know, I don'tknow, Probably not.
I'm like you're going to apply,You're going to apply.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
She wasn't going to accept that answer.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
No, no, no, no.
And she said you're going toapply and when you get in I'm
going to be your mentor, and sothat I mean, that was that, and
of course I listened to her.
I was like well whatever you say, I mean you clearly know better
than I do, so I will.
And yeah, so so I would.
I would really say like it wasjust the mentorship and the
(07:43):
women in my life who, like, wereinsistent and like wouldn't
take no for an answer, like Isee this in you and you will,
you will, right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
I see the potential in you before you see it, and so
I'm going to.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
I'm going to push you yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
That's wonderful.
Yeah, that's such a good story,and mentors are just so
significant.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Yeah, absolutely yeah .
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Yeah, and tell me then before, before we talk
about your articles and I'lltease the three C's that you
talked about in your article.
What were some shocks then?
So you know you have greatsuccess, obviously because you
got into grad school.
You got into PhD program atRice.
You had great successnavigating undergraduate.
(08:29):
You get to graduate school andthere's some things that are
surprising and unexpected andyou know cultural changes, yeah.
So what were some of those?
You know that you thought likeokay, I've navigated this, like,
but wait, this is different ingrad school.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Yeah, yeah.
So I mean, well, first of all Imoved across the country for
graduate school.
So there's the kind of just Imean I think for anyone when you
like make a big life transitionright, like not just to
graduate school but likephysical life transition, it's
like kind of you lose your senseof self for a little bit there
(09:09):
and it takes you a while to kindof get regrounded.
So like there was just thatbasic component to it and you
know I had being in McNair.
I was kind of prepared for somethings.
I was like you know I'm goingto be with a lot of people who
you know, most people who go tograduate school have parents who
have at least a bachelor'sdegree.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Like.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
I knew all of these like demographic things.
I obviously knew like financialchallenges were a thing and I
thought, you know, like I haveresearch experience under my
belt, I'm, you know, I there'snothing I don't know.
There's nothing that anyoneelse knows, that I don't know,
but that's just not true.
Going into the first year, Ithink some of the like shocks or
(09:52):
just like things I wasn'texpecting was just kind of this
way of being a way of you knowgoing about the world.
That was like new to me and itsounds so weird and it's hard to
articulate.
But I think, like a lot of youknow working class students, I
(10:13):
think a lot of like non-workingclass students, students of
color, you know, experience thiskind of like habitus shift.
I'm a sociologist, right, soPierre Bourdieu is like very,
very important and big and in mydiscipline and this idea that
like just the way that wepresent ourselves like
(10:33):
physically and the things thatwe're interested in, like those
all change a lot depending onyour class background.
And so like I came into a spacewhere, like the things that
people were talking about, I waslike who I've never heard of
that person before, or the waythat we, you know, talk about
really like big, importantissues in the world right now.
The way that I would have themwith my friends, have those
(10:57):
conversations with my friendsback home, was significantly
different than the way thatpeople were talking about them
in graduate school.
And so, you know, throwingaround all these like big words
and talking about all of theselike very important and complex
geopolitical systems, like itwas just like so much that I was
like I'm sorry, I'm justconfused, like just confusion
(11:18):
everywhere all the time, and solike it's those kinds of things
that are hard to articulate butthat you know, when you are in
those like social situationsyou're like oh yeah, no, this
place is not like for me, likethis is not where I'm supposed
to be, or at least that's howyou kind of feel when you're
(11:41):
walking through them.
So I would say that those arethe main shocks.
The other one, which I kind ofmentioned a little bit in my
article, was just like you know,I got my acceptance letter for
graduate school and it has likethe you know the stipend in
there of how much I'll be makingmy salary, and I was like score
, like yeah, I am rich, like itwas just like over the moon.
(12:07):
I was like I'm going to schooland they're paying me for five
guaranteed years, like, yes, andI get there, and everyone's
like are you kidding me?
This is ridiculous.
And even my institution is likeone of the better funded
institutions in the country andyou know, and there's so many
(12:31):
movements right now, like gradstudents all over the country
are unionizing for a living wage, and so that was like a shock
to me.
And not to say that like it's abad thing, of course, like we
need to be like advocating topay, you know, grad students
living wage, but like, but I wasrocked, like it was just, you
(12:53):
know, I was like, oh, I thoughtthat I did it, like I thought
that I got to the place and likeI was at the top of the
mountain and it looks like I amnot even close.
So that was another shock, itwas a humbling experience.
I would say, but yeah, so thoseare, I would say, are the main
things.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Yeah, yeah, those are big things and did your
journaling help with in thatfirst year, as you were coming
up against these things andhaving these realizations and
whipping out your journal atevery opportunity.
Did writing it down, talking itout like through your journal,
help with that?
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Yeah, it did, because the thing was that you know,
there's so much research andwriting on first generation
students in their undergraduateexperiences and of course, I
relied a lot on that during myundergrad and then when I got to
graduate school, like I wouldliterally open Google and be
like graduate students who arefirst generation and like just
like see if there was anything,and it was just it's so dry,
(13:58):
there's nothing.
There's nothing on graduatestudents who are first
generation, and so there was nolike words I could put to my
experience like other than likethe obvious, like finance.
You know, the financial stuffis always like easy to explain
because it's like A to B, butthe kind of social, the cultural
changes that were happeningthat I was experiencing, like
(14:21):
yeah, there was nothing.
So journaling really I thinkhelped me kind of articulate and
yeah, just articulate like allof those experiences on paper
where I was like okay, cool, I'mnot crazy, Like I actually do
have like these thoughts arecoming from a specific place and
they're real, they're not just,like you know me being
(14:43):
frustrated at everything for noreason.
So, yeah, it helped a lot.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Yeah.
And even when you look back andyou're like, well, you know it
wasn't that bad, yeah, exactly,it was pretty good, you can look
back and say, no, no, it wasthat bad and it was that hard
and you know, I did go throughsomething.
I should pat myself on the backbecause, like I've succeeded.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Yeah, absolutely Like that was, I think, at the time.
Looking back now I'm like, oh,this is great writing material.
But like at the time when I wasactually doing the journaling,
I was like, oh no, I don't wantto forget any of this, like I
don't want to let like theharshness of this experience
like be doled down over time, soI need to write it down.
I need to write it down andyeah, so that definitely worked
(15:28):
out.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Yeah, you know it's interesting, as you were talking
about both your undergrad andgraduate experience, one of the
things that I kept thinkingabout, and you actually said
this, so it's not like I'mcoming up with something
brilliant off the out of thinair, but it's not about the
doing.
It's about the being.
It's.
I can do the work, I canunderstand the concept, I can
(15:52):
write a research paper, like Iknow how to do that from grads,
from undergrad going to gradschool, but just being like who
I am at the core is differentfrom others, and then how do I
sort of make the space and findmy place in that?
Yeah, it seems to me like that'sthe thread that's run through
(16:13):
this and even through yourarticle.
So Inside Higher Ed is whereyou'll find the article and I'll
link to it in the show notes.
And the article was called aguide for first generation
working class grad students.
So tell me what made you decideto write and then send it off
to submit it.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Well, I knew I wanted to like write something public
facing and like an informal tone.
I wanted to write for, like, mypeople.
Like I didn't want to like comeup.
I didn't want it to be somelike academic journal article
that blocks behind a paywall.
Like I wanted it to besomething that, like anybody
could read, because they are nowme in the situation who is like
(16:55):
typing into Google likegraduate students and how to get
through the first year.
So I'm hoping that, like thecomputer machine wizard will do
whatever it does and like pullup my article when those
students are searching through.
But that was the motivation for,you know, publishing it in
Inside Higher Ed, because I hadbeen like assigned articles from
(17:18):
Inside Higher Ed in myundergrad.
I was like, ok, I know thatlike students read this, so that
was important to me.
And then, you know, I was kindof a little bit challenged with
the idea of like.
So I'm only talking about thisthis first year.
How much advice do I reallyhave?
You know how much.
How much reliability do Ireally have to be giving advice
(17:39):
at this stage in my career?
And it's like one.
You know, I do try to strayaway from just being like you
have to do this, this and this.
You know more.
Just share my experiences andalso the context that I'm aware
of a first generation student,so there's like some data in
there as well.
But but the other thing wasjust like who better to like
(18:03):
talk about the first year ofgraduate school than like a
first year graduate student, youknow?
Speaker 1 (18:09):
right, so I've been through it.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yeah, and I had, of course I've I've read, you know,
articles from faculty atvarious institutions talking
about, like, how to get throughyour first year as a graduate
student.
Like, of course I had read allof these things, but they just
like, oh, didn't quite do it forme.
It was like, yeah, I mean, Iknow I'm supposed to, you know,
(18:32):
reach out to my professors oftenand and try to, you know,
collaborate, like all of thesethings I know is just like the
other stuff, the other stuff Ineed like information on.
And so I think that's where,like the experience as a
graduate student who literallyjust did this, like just came
out of this experience, isreally beneficial and I hope, I
(18:55):
hope it's beneficial for otherstudents reading it or or people
you know who even are in theircareers now, who, yeah, who can
benefit from it and who had thatexperience as well.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Yeah, well, I mean I I read it from the point of view
of somebody who works withundergraduate students, who
wants to be able to support themto go to grad school and
prepare them if they choose togo to grad school, and so you
know it reached, even thoughit's targeted towards grad
students, it certainly reachedmultiple audiences.
I would say yeah.
So let's dive into that articlea little bit and I encourage, I
(19:28):
encourage you to read it.
But let's dive into it a littlebit and talk about your, your
tips to survive and thrive thatyou came up with, and there were
three C's communityconsciousness raising and
claiming space.
So share with, share with withme and with you who are
listening.
What, why did you come up withthose three?
(19:48):
And you know how, what advicedid you give in that article?
And what would you add now thatmaybe you didn't get to write
because you were worried aboutword count?
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Oh yeah, the word count was I think I cut about
half of the article and I'm likenot even joking when I say that
.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
So now you get to hear the other half.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
So we get the whole.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Thing.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Yeah, well, I'm.
So.
First I should just say likeI'm not creative at all when it
comes to like titles and likenaming things.
So like the three C's, I waslike, oh, I'm on roll, like this
is great, this is.
But I really just like when Isat down to write it, obviously
(20:28):
like I wrote the first part butthen I needed like takeaways and
I'm like, oh God, this is wherethe, the advice part comes in,
and I had all these insecuritiesabout like giving advice and so
I just thought like literally,how did I get through it?
Like just what?
Like I needed to do a littlereplay of the whole past, you
know, first year in my head, andwhat did I do?
(20:50):
Like what did I rely on?
What was you know, my, how didI get through it?
And that's kind of whereobviously they weren't like
originally, like I didn't namethem that.
But the three C's are what thephenomenon were, that I, you
know, like experienced andunderwent to get to the second
(21:11):
year and not quit my first year.
So community obviously is hugeand I think that, like you read
anything on anything difficultin any human life, and it's like
community and we're, you know,I mean we're in such an
individualistic world.
But we're definitely in such anindividualistic society and so,
(21:33):
especially when you get intothe academy and it's like you
know, publisher parish and a lotof graduate students don't
receive the same stipends aseach other.
You know, we don't all haveequal funding.
I'm really thankful at myinstitution we do but so there's
all these like roadblocks andobstacles in this graduate
(21:56):
school experience.
That is kind of like reallytrying to pull you away from
other people.
It's trying to like tell you,like you need to, like you know,
pull yourself up by yourbootstraps, you need to just
succeed, climb to the top of themountain by yourself, like, if
you want to, you need to go getit and, like you know, you'll be
the victor, You'll be out ontop in the end.
(22:17):
And it's just like that's notreality, like that's just not
how it works.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
For anyone.
It's never about you, just doit on your own and it's just you
.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Exactly and especially not like in my
experience, because it's likeyou know, I just I just said all
the people who like helped meget to where I was.
So that's not going to justlike stop here.
So I really relied on communityand that's like hard and kind
of sounds like not hypocritical,but like it doesn't make a lot
of sense when you're in a spacewhere you don't feel like there
(22:51):
is a lot of community for you.
So for me and I'm like ahardcore introvert too so like I
wasn't about to be going outyeah, I wasn't about to be going
out every single weekend andtrying to like make friends with
everyone on campus and like allof that's like it just wasn't.
And you know you're adjustingto a new place Like just no,
it's not going to happen.
But what I did rely on a lot waslike there were a few graduate
(23:14):
students in my program that Idid get close with and I think
that that was important.
But it was also important that Ilike maintain ties with my
friends back home, like myfriends who were in McNair with
me and you know, even one ofthem was is going through a
master's degree program rightnow, and so we're still kind of
having similar experiences as wemove through graduate school.
(23:35):
And even my friends who didn'tgo to graduate school Like it's
really grounding to be able tolike still rely on your
community, even if you're 2000miles away from them, in my case
.
And then the other form ofcommunity actually I would say
it's kind of twofold is thecommunity who's kind of in the
middle where they understandthat experience, but maybe
(23:59):
they're not, you know, they'renot in your program with you,
and so, like my undergrad mentor, she has been like so
incredibly important and vital,obviously not only to my success
in undergrad but like ingraduate school now too.
And so there's that.
And then there's the readinglike being able to connect with
(24:21):
like authors and, because I'm anintrovert, of course, like
that's super, super easy for meto do, being able to connect
with like people whose booksI've read and like who have
spoken on things like this, thatlike would resonate with me and
the experiences that I washaving.
So those are all differentforms of community that I think
(24:43):
that any student like no matterlike where, can kind of engage
in and it doesn't have to looklike, you know, having like a
big group of like.
It's not the stereotypical kindof community that you think of.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Yeah, yeah, here's a question just popped into my
head.
Does studying sociology giveyou kind of like a leg up on why
community is so important?
Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yes, it does, and I would say in my experience, no,
it gives me a leg up on a lot ofother things, right?
Because as sociologists kind ofwhat we're trained as like, one
of the main things that we studyis like social interactions and
social groups and how most ofthe world around us, yeah, and
how most of the world around usis socially constructed in some
(25:32):
way, and so all of that, I feellike, does give me a lot of a
leg up, as like you know, likelooking at these things, but in
terms of like understandingcommunity.
That's not where I learned theimportance of community.
That is something that Ilearned from my personal
background as a working classperson of like you know, we're
(25:54):
not in the silo play, it's Idon't know.
It's the experience of like,when you need help, like there's
gonna be people around there tohelp you, because this is a
mutually beneficial communitythat you're in when you're
growing up of like there'salways somebody right there.
You know a million familymembers, a million.
You know your neighbors and thewhole block and everybody, and
(26:19):
so that kind of communalexperience is like, I think, is
what sets the foundation forthat knowing in graduate school,
even if I'm in a sociologydepartment.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Yeah, yeah, couldn't help but ask cause, just like
hmm, you know talking about theindividual and the
individualistic society thatwe're in, but then also knowing
that community is so importantand surrounding ourselves with
people who can lift us up and,you know, pick us up at the same
time.
So, yeah, yeah, nice, nice,yeah, I think.
Community and finding peoplewho will be there with you.
(26:55):
I think I read one article thatsaid that if you can find, like
, what sort of lights you up andthat you're excited about every
day, and if you have one personin your life that has your back
, you know, and specifically forcollege students, and probably
the same is true for graduatestudents then you will find a
(27:16):
way to survive and thrive.
If you have those two thingsand I'm like, you know, that's a
really that's a very sort ofsimplified way of looking at it,
but I think for a lot ofstudents, especially the, you
know, first gen students, that'sa really good piece of advice,
cause it's not overwhelming.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
I completely agree, because I can think of times
where I didn't feel as muchsupport and that didn't work out
.
And then there's times whenI've had a lot of support but
like I wasn't doing things thatI wanted to do and so it was
like you know.
But I think that, yeah, it'ssuper important.
And that's another thing tomention too is just like if
you're considering graduateschool, like consider, you have
(27:55):
to consider your why and likeare you going into something
that you really wanna do becauseyou know I'm not at the back
end of that yet, so I can'tconfirm for sure, but I have had
a lot of mentors say you knowyou have to do it because you
want to and because you have areason and a passion or a
something, some kind of spark,some kind of fire for it.
Because if you're going justfor the title for the degree,
(28:17):
like it's not gonna happen.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Yeah, Well, phd programs.
I mean, you're just so immersedin the subject and the
literature that you know youneed to love it because you're
deep diving into all of that.
So yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Then let's talk too aboutconsciousness raising.
Cause that to me, you know.
(28:41):
I think, like you said, a lotof people will talk about how
community is important, butconsciousness raising maybe not
so much.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Yeah, it's not as talked about, and I also think
that it's like a little bit moreabstract to think about, like
you know, like conscious, likewhat do you mean?
Like I'm awake, I'm likelooking around, what do you mean
?
But I think that it so.
(29:09):
This is where I feel like itgets a little bit harder to, you
know, talk about this in likean education way.
This is where I rely a lot moreon.
When I was an undergrad, I wasin, you know, gender and ethnic
studies and so, like this iswhere I rely a lot more on, like
feminist theory and all ofthese, you know, all of these
tools that I was kind of trainedwith as an undergrad to look at
(29:31):
the world around me and be likehmm, hmm and so and of course
that was like the hardest partof the article to like shave
down, because I was like no,this is essential, like I need
to mention this, and then theeditors were like no, no, no, no
, no.
But the editors were great, butI think I will definitely need
(29:52):
to write like another articlelater on about that.
But this idea of consciousnessraising, I think is really
rooted in the knowing that Onething is not like the other.
You know, from an experientialstandpoint, like from going
(30:12):
through graduate school, thefirst year of graduate school
myself, and being like huh, Ifeel like I don't belong here
and, like you said, the doingand the being are different.
Like I can write essays, I cando research to my heart's
content and I have no, I'm fullyconfident that I can do all of
(30:35):
those things.
It's the in-between stuff, it'sthe like lifeblood running
through the academy, kind ofstuff that is just like so much
more difficult.
And so I think a consciousnessraising journey or experience is
when you have that realization,and a lot of people do have
(30:56):
that realization.
But then it's about like, okay,what are the?
You have to realize that it'snot just a personal experience.
Like what are the systems, whatare the structures in place
that have made my experience theway that it is?
And you can talk about this ata higher ed level.
You could talk about this at abunch of like way more macro
(31:20):
levels.
Like we have a system of severeinequality in this country and
that doesn't just go away.
When you go into education, youknow there's like the saying,
like education is a greatequalizer, but that's been
heavily problematized,especially in, you know, higher
education and then also in mydiscipline in sociology as well.
(31:40):
So that's, I think, like whatthe path of consciousness
raising is, and for me,thankfully, having gone through
undergrad and having wonderful,wonderful, wonderful teachers, I
was equipped with a lot ofscholarship and knowledge, and
that's not even from, like anacademic standpoint of like this
(32:04):
is how this is another way oflooking at the world that is
very at odds, I would say, withthe structure of the academy,
but it is very healing and itfeels very liberating to have
that way of looking at the worldand thinking.
No, I think I'm going to do itthis way instead.
So one of my main researchinterests is black feminist
(32:28):
thought, and I rely a lot onblack feminist thought, not only
in, like my own research agendabut in the way that I like walk
through the world.
And so black feminist thoughtis this really long, very old
tradition of knowledge isoppressed knowledge is black
women talking about theirexperiences for other black
(32:50):
women.
That is so just beautiful andempowering, and I read it as a
white woman.
I'm a white woman, and I readit and I say, oh my God, like,
yes, like I see, like this.
This helps me too, and so it'sreally it's just really really
powerful to read those kinds ofthings.
(33:11):
I read a lot of bell hooks.
I think it at this point inwhile you're listening to the
podcast, like, if you're like solost right now on the
consciousness raising thing,bell hooks, teaching to
transgress I link it in thearticle is a must read.
Like you, you have to read it,especially if you're a working
class student, graduate school.
But she's kind of one of thelike seminal authors in this
(33:34):
kind of black feminist canon,especially as it relates to
education.
Because she talked a lot abouther education but talking about
like working class lives andunderstanding that the system of
higher education was initiallystructured as like, like
essentially like finishingschool for the, for the elite,
(33:57):
and so if that's how it startedand everything just grew from
there, then like, how do we fitinto that?
Like, where do black women fitinto that?
Where do just all women fitinto that?
Where do working class peoplefit into that?
Like, like, who, who is thisfor?
And so it's it's at this end ofthe consciousness raising
(34:20):
journey like you start learninghow to be strategic about your
identity and how you're studyingand in my field, sociology,
it's like we study predominantlyinequality, and so it's like
how do you be strategic aboutyour own knowledges, even if
they're you know different frommost other people in the academy
?
How do you be strategic withthose knowledges to then like,
(34:43):
do something that matters, doresearch that matters, or do
work that matters, if you're notgoing into an academic space in
the long term?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Yeah, how do you, how do you do what matters?
And it's also how do you bringyour voice into it so that
others can learn from you.
Yeah, I thought I reallyenjoyed that section.
I haven't read Bell Hook's bookyet, but it's on my, it's like
on my Kindle, just waiting, soit's so good.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
It's so good.
I I don't even have it's likehard to even articulate, like
the word I just yeah, yeah, ifyou like know me, if everyone
who knows me in like an academicspace, like I talk about this
book all the time, I just feellike it's like step one.
So, yeah, yes, everyone.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
And you hand it out to us Christmas gifts and you
know literally you need to readthis book.
Don't come back to me after youread it.
We'll have a discussion so yeah, exactly.
I love it, I love it.
Well, thank you for that.
And then your final one wasclaiming space, which I really
appreciate.
I think they, I think theconsciousness raising in the
claiming space go together.
They do, you know, obviouslyvery, very nicely.
(35:48):
So talk about why you wantstudents like you you know grad
working class, first gen toclaim space.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Yeah, so, okay.
So step one is just find somepeople to be in community with.
Then step two is you know, doyour consciousness raising word.
Do you know read the history ofyou know what higher education
is, who it's for?
You know read people whoinspire you and help you kind of
navigate.
(36:19):
You know, understand the worldaround you.
And then, once you're donedoing that, then you go into
your, your classes, to your,your research lab, to your
wherever, and you claim space.
And this one, I would say, outof the other two, is the one
that I am.
This is very much still like awork in progress for me and like
what that means exactly.
(36:40):
But I think claiming space it'snot just about like being like
the most talkative person inyour, in your courses, or like
having the most to contributeduring like research meetings
and things like that, but likefirst practicing within yourself
like I deserve to be here.
(37:02):
This space may not have beenmade for me, you know, it might
not be like the place that, likeI was expected to be, but like
I deserve to be here.
So, like the internalaffirmations and and the journal
, like the journaling for me, Ithink, is a way of claiming
space because it's it's the, theaudacity of not letting my
(37:25):
experiences like be hushed andmuted and like forgotten about
because that year is over.
So like that's like an internalway of claiming space and that
can happen, like nobody has tosee that happen, like.
So like you know, I mean Ithink that like as grad, like
just graduate students ingeneral, we have kind of like a
precarious position in theacademy, you might say, and so
(37:47):
we don't have a lot of like.
We, I would say we have a lotof like individual power, we
have a lot of collective poweras like a bunch of individuals
coming together as graduatestudents, but we don't, like we
don't get to make the rulesabout, like you know, the
intricacies of how our programworks or like how much money we
make.
We don't get any of thosedecisions.
(38:07):
So the internal kind ofclaiming space is the thing that
we can all do and nobody has tosee that happen, right.
But then I think the outwardclaiming space you have to be a
lot more strategic about.
Obviously, if you're like, youknow what I think this is, you
know this is inequality and I amnot going to do this and it's
(38:28):
like it's not going to work outfor you.
I'm sorry it just won't,because, you know, because
that's the space that we're in.
But being strategic about likemaking you know, like finding
mentors and people in yourinstitution who are you know,
who really do support you andwho kind of, if not knowing what
your experience is like, willlisten to you and you feel like
(38:51):
do care.
And then I think the otherstrategic part about that is,
you know, helping yourself firstand helping people in your
community first too, becausewe're in a weird place where,
like institutions are so like,excited to be like oh, oh, yes,
(39:12):
we have a huge first generationpopulation.
Look at all the things thatwe're doing for, like, hispanic
students on our campus, look atall the.
But then once we, the people whothey're like recruiting and,
like you know, advertising about, get onto those campuses, it's
like, okay, cool, like where'sthe spaces?
And they're like, oh, no, no,like that was, you know that was
(39:35):
just for the marketing email,like what do you mean so?
So you, I mean like recognizingthat and being like, okay, I'm,
you know, a lot of campuses arereally like the, the undergrad
institution that I came from,like we had a huge first
generation population and we hada first generation student
center, like a literal, likehuge area on campus, but not all
(40:00):
places have that.
And so it's about beingstrategic with yourself, of
being like okay, you know theywant me for this thing, you know
, and, and I can do that, I canprovide, I can be a great
research assistant, I can, youknow, do all the things I can.
Like you know I can do all thatstuff, but I need to be getting
(40:22):
something out of this too, likepeople like me be getting
something out of this too.
So being very, very intentionalwith, with the opportunities
you're taking the labor that youagree to put on yourself.
You know everyone's alwaysgoing to be asking do you want
to do this thing for me?
Do you want to throw thisworkshop and this?
And that has to be like youhave to be intentional about
(40:45):
like, do I want to do this?
Like should I?
Would this be best?
And so that's.
It's like a weird.
You know, by saying no, you'reactually claiming more space,
but like I think that those areall things that count under the
claiming space kind of umbrellaof being like your own, you know
, being able to stand on yourown two feet and say like yes
(41:08):
and no, and this is my decision,and and all that stuff.
So that's definitely still awork in progress for me.
But, you know, check back in inthree years and we'll see how
it's going.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Yeah, I might just do that.
You know, it actually seems tome that writing this article was
a way you claim space.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
I think so, I think so.
I think it's kind of like itwas kind of like a little player
of like, well, first of all,like I'm claiming this space
right here, but also is a playerto like, hopefully, other
students around the country andeven maybe outside of the
country, of being like, Okay,your turn, Like here we go,
let's do it, let's let's youknow, like build this kind of
(41:48):
network.
So so, yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Yeah, yeah, I love it .
I again.
If you haven't read the article, I highly recommend it.
And inside higher ed you canprobably just Google Lauren
Harvey inside higher ed and itwill pop up Again.
I'll put it in the show notesLauren.
Thank you so much for for allof this.
Is there any final advice you'dwant to give to the folks who
are working in higher ed abouthow to support students like you
(42:17):
who are coming in?
Things that we can do.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
Yes.
Well, I would say, beyond theobvious pay, graduate students,
living wage I would also, I mean, I think it's hard.
It's hard for faculty.
I'm not a faculty, so there'sanother side of this experience
that you aren't hearing rightnow, but it's it's hard,
(42:43):
especially if you yourself are afirst generation or working
class.
You know faculty members, staffmember, because being honest
and being open and vulnerableabout about that experience is
is I mean to be honest like it'sstill not something necessarily
that is like super, superempowering and like that you
know all, like all theseidentities.
(43:03):
So sometimes you know peoplemight not feel safe necessarily
revealing that about themselves,but if you know of like
students who are open about thisthemselves, like maybe
vocalizing that to them, likeknowing that the visibility is
so important, like as much aslike our institutions, like
hyper visibleize us, it's alsowe're like very invisible, like
(43:24):
in the day to day, because likeyou could walk around and just
be like yeah, nobody here getsme, and it's like that's not
true.
There are people, but like noteveryone's like vocal about
their experiences or it's notvisible, especially for places
that don't have like spaces,like institutional spaces on
campus for first generationpeople.
(43:44):
So I think that that's a bigone, like on the individual
level of like, just like facultywho have those experiences, or
staff members who have thoseexperiences, or even who don't
have those experiences of beinglike, hey, I see you, I see that
your set of experiences, orthat your background, that
you're, you know that you'recoming from a community that
(44:07):
feels like can sometimes be atodds with this place, like I
want to support you, help you.
So, yeah, just like theindividual support.
And then I also think that likeand I think this just goes for
graduate students in general,but like listening to students,
we very much know we're not theexperts and you know it's always
(44:30):
impressed upon us that we'renot the experts because we're
here to learn and we're here tolike become the experts and
things like that.
But we are experts in our ownexperiences and so I think that
you know a lot of times andagain, this is all in service of
that like you've got to gothrough tough things, you got to
harden in order to like be thebest researcher you can be.
(44:53):
I don't think that's always themost productive thing and I
don't know, maybe that's justlike me being a product of my
generation, but I just don'tthink that, like you know the
hardness and like struggleshould be a prerequisite yeah, a
prerequisite to you knowsuccess.
And so listening to studentsand they're like, you know this
is, you know, this is different.
(45:15):
This is something that, like,is weighing on me heavily, like
emotionally, you know whatever,because, because Gratvins do
uproot their lives to come andyou know, work for institutions,
for faculty members, for three,four, five, six, seven, eight
years, like so.
So I think listening tostudents about their experiences
(45:36):
and you know what they need isalso very important.
You know we don't there's a lotthat we don't see, a lot of like
you know, bureaucratic, kind ofbehind the scenes, you know,
behind the curtain, stuff thatgoes on, yes, in these
departments, and stuff that wedon't see.
And we don't necessarily, ofcourse, we don't understand
(45:57):
those things necessarily, but Ithink that like there's a level
of kind of humanity and likereciprocity that we need to
foster a little bit better inacademia, of like understanding
that like, like it's tough forall of us here, it's tough for
all of us.
It's not just, you know, thefaculty who are working their
(46:20):
butts off to like supportstudents, it's not just the
students themselves.
And so the listening componentand the kind of compassion has
to be, it has to be there,otherwise it's not, you know,
super healthy, a healthy space.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
Yeah, I agree, I agree with that 100%, and I
think it's also true that forthe year, three C's, I think
they're they're always changingright, because you're always
raising your consciousness to anext level.
You're all.
You're claiming space in newplaces, yeah, as you're going
through and you're justcontinuing to build community.
So it's a constant learning andcycle of things that you're
(46:57):
going through as a grad studentand and if you don't have that
sort of compassionate you knowmentor or faculty or staff
person or friends, you knowpeers to turn to it.
Just yeah, it just makes itmuch more of a struggle when it
doesn't need to be.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
Yeah, and that just made me think of another thing.
Like I think it's I'm at, I'm atthis kind of level in my
development, but then I get tosee, like graduate students who
have been in the program for afew years more than me and I can
like think of several right nowthat I'm like you know, like I
want to do what they're doing.
I want to be at a place wherethey're at like there's, there's
(47:36):
just so having like that lookup to of not just like material
success, of like oh my gosh,they've published this many
articles or they've done this,this, this but of like a like a
developmental, kind of likeconsciousness level, where it's
like like it's so nice to seepeople who are so like committed
(47:59):
to self growth and likeinternal psychological kind of
growth, not just like materialsuccess, and so that kind of
like is a reminder to like staystrong and like just keep doing
the internal work that you needto do to just be a better, a
better you, not a better studentor a better professional or
whatever, but like a better you.
So yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
well, I really appreciated this conversation.
Thank you so much for foragreeing to be on the podcast.
If, if a listener wants to getin touch with you, how can they
contact you?
Speaker 2 (48:34):
So I'm on LinkedIn.
I still don't know how to workthat robot.
I assume if you just type inLauren Harvey Rice University, I
should pop up.
So definitely LinkedIn, andthen my, my, also my email.
My email inbox is always open.
I I like emailing about notmeeting things and not, like you
(48:57):
know, work, activity, things.
So if anyone wants, emailsbasically, yeah, conversational
emails.
If anyone wants to email me,that'd be great as well, and my
email is LH52 at riceedu.
So, and yeah, you can.
You can look me up that way aswell.
Speaker 1 (49:19):
I'll put that and your LinkedIn in the show notes.
I'll put those links in.
I'll put a link to the bellhooks and the article in the
show notes as well.
Yeah, everyone will be readingbell hooks now and thank you.
And for anyone who wants toreach out to me, if you'd like
to be on the podcast or you havequestions or you have an idea
(49:40):
for a topic, you can find me atfirstgenfmcom or you can email
me at gen that's J-E-N atfirstgenfmcom and I'd love to
hear from you and get feedback.
Also, if you do me a favor andrate and review this podcast and
hopefully give me a five starreview, give Lauren a five star
review at least, because she wasfabulous to talk to.
I would love to have you dothat because it helps other
(50:02):
folks who are working with firstgen students, either in high
school or college, find thepodcast.
So thank you for joining me,lauren, and thank you for
listening and I will see youagain next week.
Or I would say I'll see youagain because I feel like I'm
talking with you, like you'reright here.
Yeah, we'll talk with you againnext week.
Thanks, thank you.
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