Navigating Career Paths: Success Stories and Strategies for First-Generation Students with Mike Wysocki

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Join us for a conversation with Mike Wysocki, a first-generation graduate,  who reveals how he turned hurdles into stepping stones on his journey to success. From a working-class suburb of Boston to the broader horizons of UMass Amherst, Mike candidly shares how a change in major from engineering to sociology opened unexpected doors. He talks about the critical role of attitude and determination in carving out a career path, and why he chose the business world over social work. This episode offers valuable insights into the winding road of career choices and the importance of exploring opportunities to find what  fits.

Curious about how effective communication can set you apart in the job market? Mike shares his experience of being published in various magazines, and how it became a unique asset during job interviews, underscoring the power of accomplishments on a resume. We also discuss the motivation behind his book, "Careers by the People," and his aim to guide first-generation, low-income individuals in balancing financial success with personal fulfillment. Mike emphasizes the necessity of understanding teams and collaboration to become an indispensable asset in any organization.

In our discussion, we explore the unpredictable journeys people take to find success and fulfillment, from unconventional career paths to the importance of mentorship and real-world experience. Mike shares anecdotes of individuals who broke the mold and found joy in unexpected fields, and stresses the critical role of making informed career choices. If your students are facing similar challenges, he offers encouragement and practical advice on how to harness available resources like faculty and alumni networks. Connect with Mike through his website, LinkedIn, and YouTube channel for more inspiration and guidance on navigating your own career journey.

Mike Wysocki

After toiling in corporate America for 30+ years, Mike Wysocki finally put his sociology degree to work by researching a variety of occupations and collected hundreds of responses from industry veterans then choosing the best 101 for the award-winning and best-selling book Careers By the People.

www.careersbythepeople.com

www.linkedin.com/in/mike-wysocki-021679/

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You can find me at https://www.firstgenfm.com/ and on
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Thank you so much for takingthe time to do that.

(00:27):
Now let's dive into this week'sepisode.
Today I'm going to be talking toMike Wisaki, author of Careers
by the People candid careeradvice from 101 experienced
professionals.
We met at a Gear Up conferencebecause he is both an author and
a speaker, sharing what he'slearned in his own life about

(00:49):
careers, as well as what he haslearned from all of his
interviews with people in a verywide variety of careers.
Now you might catch Mike'saccent because he is from
Massachusetts.
So it was a real pleasure totalk with him and he is a true
Massachusetts Ian, also known asa Bay Stater, because that

(01:09):
Massachusetts Ian thing is waytoo hard to say.
So he's going to tell it likeit is and he's going to be a
straight shooter.
So I really enjoyed talkingwith Mike and I hope you get
some great information as well.
As always, I'll put informationin the show notes.
So if you're looking to contactMike or get a copy of his book,

(01:30):
you will find that informationthere.
Thanks for joining me today.
Let's talk to Mike.
Hey, welcome, mike, to FirstGen FM.
I'm really excited to have youhere as an author, as a first
gen yourself, to talk to othereducators like me who are
looking to see how they can helpstudents, and especially about

(01:53):
careers and looking at careersand getting ready for careers,
because I know that's yourspecialty.
So I'm going to start with thequestion I always ask everybody
is how did you get involved inthis and what did your journey
to college look like as a firstgeneration student?

Speaker 2 (02:09):
Oh, wow, yeah, how do you get involved with it?
It's basically God.
I grew up in the suburb ofBoston called Weymouth and all
like that.
It's a working class area, andso when I was in high school it
was like, what are you going todo after high school?
And I never thought about it,and so my grades weren't even
that great and the guidancecounselor kept pushing me

(02:30):
towards military construction orsomething like that.
And I'm like no, I want to tryout this college thing.
And he goes OK, here's a goodschool, go apply to this school.
And I'm like OK, boston State.
I don't recall Boston State andit was a school years ago and
by the time I applied to it itdidn't exist.
So I got not only badinformation, I got to apply to a

(02:52):
school that didn't exist.
But luckily I got into UMassBoston and from there, you know,
you start, you know bouncingthrough the system.
And I met a friend who wasgoing to Amherst and UMass
Amherst.
And I go hey, hey, dino, howare you getting into UMass?
I mean, how are you over there?
I mean, that's more expensive,you have less money than my

(03:17):
family does.
And he goes no, you don't getit, he goes because of our
poverty, he goes.
You can just transfer overthere, he goes, taxpayers will
pay for it.
I'm like'm like, okay, great.
So I got over to umass amherstand, um, it changed, it changes
my thinking in my world.
I met all these students thatwere doing a variety of
different things and from thereit's just like, hey, I got a
chip on my shoulder, I've got agood attitude about going out
there and hustling and getting agig.

(03:38):
And the irony was was that I,when I met these elite students
from these nicer suburbs, I'mlike what are you doing in the
same school that I'm in?
Geez, I thought you were likeyou know this upper echelon,
blah, blah, blah.
But anyway, so yeah, so that'show it all started and, um, I
mean I just my mother said, youknow, you know, just try college
, push me to college, and alllike that.

(03:59):
And that's, I mean kind of likeI gave it a shot and that.
And what happened?

Speaker 1 (04:03):
Yeah, yeah.
So what did you end up majoringin and did that lead you
directly to a career?
Or was I always think of youknow, people talk about a career
ladder.
I think it's really more of acareer jungle gym or a career
ropes course, and that there'sso many different options you
can choose.
So how did that?
What did that look like for you?

Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah, it's funny.
I'm going to actually pick upthat book one of these days,
squiggly Career, because itsounds like an interesting one.
Yeah, no, no, no.
So it's actually worse.
I mean, one of my friends, shewas in sociology.
She explained to me what it wasabout and I'm like great,
because I thought it was goingto be an engineering course.
But after I got beat down bigtime in a lot of engineering

(04:42):
classes, I'm like you know whatelse is there.
So, beat down big time in a lotof engineering classes, I'm
like you know what else is there, so I can just focus on get a
degree, get a degree, get adegree.
She was in sociology, so Ichose sociology and so I still
kept it.
When I'm going from UMass Bostonto UMass Amherst, and then I
remember I really right at theend of my schooling, I went to
like a local bar and stuff likethat, and I saw all my sociology

(05:03):
students.
They were there, they werehanging out together and I was
never included.
I don't know why, but I and sowe talked about after college
what are we going to do?
And they're all going to socialwork.
And I go social work, I go.
I'm going into business, I go,that's what the money is.
And so right after there Istumbled my way into getting a
job at Fidelity because thehiring manager was from guess

(05:26):
where UMass, amherst.
He wasn't a friend, but he wasa guy who was really cool a
couple of years old.
I didn't know him in school,but he hooked me up from there.
But no, my whole thing was getand this was and people,
students have to remember thisis back in the 80s.
So I'm like just get a degree,get into some company and
hopefully you'll figure it outfrom there.

(05:47):
So that's where my path landed.
But no, I didn't use sociologyuntil writing this book and so I
used it technically 30 yearslater or something like that.
But yeah, no, it was never avalue.
It's good for comedy's sake,but it's not a value really.
But the irony is, it worked out.
I mean, I wrote a book and it'snot a sociological review but a

(06:11):
sociologist.

Speaker 1 (06:12):
They loved it, two of them actually did so I got two
sociologists who love my work.
So, yeah, I mean, I like tothink knowledge never goes to
waste and you never know whatyou learn along the way that is
going to come back to you to uselater.
So you know, it probably seemedlike I'm going to Fidelity, I'm
getting a job in business, I'mnot going to use my sociology
stuff, but it probably snuck inthere when in your interactions

(06:32):
with other people and then, likeyou said, when you wrote the
book, it's like, oh okay, likeit's coming back around.

Speaker 2 (06:39):
Oh, you're, you're, you're a hundred percent correct
.
You never know who you're goingto meet, what you're going to
do, what's going to occur andwhat you learned and how it can
integrate, I mean within thebook.
I mean, how many people latelyhave quote Jacob Risk?
You know what I mean.
So I mean I bring back a lot ofthings that I learned
throughout readings, throughinformation, through history and
all like that, and how it canintegrate into today's society

(07:02):
and how it can help others withthoughts and ideas about the
world.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
Yeah, yeah, and I, I, I think that too, the sociology
degree I mean it's, you know,there's degrees that go directly
.
It's like, well, I'm going tostudy nursing, I'm going to be a
nurse, I'm going to studyaccounting, I'm going to be an
accountant.
But when you're studyingsociology or psychology or
English, which was my major-no-transcript, great or minor in

(07:53):
it.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
I think English is the best because if you can
clearly write or speak orunderstand how terminology works
and how to get your pointacross, I mean that is intense
and people have to understand.
I mean, if you have those basicskills that you can move your
net.
I always tell students your networth will increase if you can

(08:15):
do x, y or z.
And one example, one example Ialways use is public speaking.
And these people that areafraid to public speak, just cut
25 off your income right there.
Boom, you can't do it, you know.
So I, I, just I go.
You have to go out there and thethings that you can't deal with
deal with with, like publicspeaking, and go take a class at
college.
If you don't have it, communitycollege might have it.

(08:37):
If not, um, toast, you know.
Or the other curveball too is Igo.
You know what, if you reallywant to get into the corporate
America, go take an acting class.
You might learn some tricks andtrades and how to deal with
people and how to read people'spersonalities.
I go, there's so many anglesout there to do that are these
hidden skills that can improveyour life.
So yeah, I mean yeah, anything,I know.

(08:59):
I tell them go thing.
I know I tell them go.

Speaker 1 (09:01):
Yeah, and I was going to say I know that this is, you
know, when I sent you somequestions to talk about.
This is one of the questionsand this is out of order from
where I listed it, but it seemsa nice segue to talk about those
professional skills.
You know that a lot of peoplecall soft skills that.
You know that I call powerskills, because there's nothing

(09:21):
soft about them.
They're absolutely necessary tothrive.
What have you discovered aboutprofessional skills?
Because clearly that's whatwe're talking about Students,
you know, taking classes tolearn some of those really solid
, both communication skills, butalso interpersonal skills.

Speaker 2 (09:39):
Yeah, if you get about six hours, I can talk
about that.
But here's a couple of things.
Two, is I like professional orpower?
I hate soft skills.
The word soft skills get rid ofit.
And the other thing, too, is sopower?
I mean, power was actuallythat's really cool.
You should copyright that, asthey say, or professional.
Here's how it all occurred forme, because I was in technology

(10:04):
sales for 30 years and all welived and died by was our
professional skills or softskills or power skills, whatever
you want to call them.
But we didn't understand.
I mean, we didn't know what thewords were and what they meant.
All we know is that this is howwe get our business done.
So this is how it all occurred,why I really pushed
professional skills as much.

(10:25):
Uh, and I can thank theuniversity of new hampshire.
I spoke there a few times andthese guys are great.
Uh, these guys are great to me,and they just got some good
rankings too.
Um, it's something about in newengland, you know, one of the
best state schools.
So, uh, and then, and and I theperson my connection over there
is like, hey, we like yourpresentations, but, uh, would
you mind adding soft skills?

(10:47):
Oh, and I'm like, yeah, sure,I'll do it.
I'll do whatever they need,right, whatever the students
need and want, I'll figure itout.
And I was telling my goal ifit's not in my book, if it's not
in my speaking activities, I'lldo a youtube, I'll figure it
out.
And so that I googled softskills and professional skills
and it came up with a, a Harvardreview and Forbes, and I'm like
those guys are credible.
So I listed like the top fiveand they debated about one and I

(11:11):
talked to the students abouteach professional skill and, as
we spoke about earlier, it's,you know, speaking is imperative
, and public speaking, but alsoit's communication with writing
too.
And so I tell them this oneabout writing.
I go here's how you.
I go All I'm going to do isgive you ideas on how you can
build up.
So when you compete againstsomebody else going for that gig

(11:33):
, that you'll win by, you know,one percent, two percent,
whatever.
But here's an example in writing, I go how can you prove if
you're a good writer?
Because it's important withcommunication skills, get
something published, and I go.
Get it published anywhere, uh,the university of new hampshire
magazine field and stream, Idon't care, you know the local
weymouth news or something likethat, don't care, but it says

(11:54):
you have something published.
And if something published thatinterests you or an industry
that you're getting intosomething like that, even better
.
But it's one line item on yourresume that might separate you
from the others.
And examples I go back to whenI was interviewing.
I remember I was interviewingwith the company and I just be
getting the gig was pretty highand the hiring manager goes oh,

(12:15):
I see you were published in thismagazine.
I go no, I was published fourtimes in the magazine and uh.
But the point was how manyother sales reps and technology
you're going to write about whatthey've been published in?
So you separate yourself fromthe rest.
But the professional skills youhave to learn all of them and
you have to.
I mean, like I also, you'regoing to work in a team and the

(12:37):
team aren't your friends youhang out with in the weekend or
your classmates.
They're the polar opposite.
You came from big city.
They're rural.
They came from the East Coast,came to the West Coast.
They're from Texas.
You're from Indiana.
Everything is totally different.
I mean, they're from a foreigncountry.
You got a PhD at Yale.
They got a GED from you knowFlorida, or something like that.
The point is you have to learnto understand and give people

(12:59):
opportunities and suggestions.
Why are they there, understandtheir views, and I go.
The funny thing is, in timethat person might be a trusted
advisor.
So 15 years down the road youmight call them and say hey, bob
, you got a minute, I got aquestion.
I'm dealing with this situationand I can't comprehend it from
my viewpoint.
What do you understand fromthis viewpoint?

(13:21):
So I try to get that ingrainedas much as possible, because in
school it's like, as we talk,you know, on the flip side is
hard skills, hard skills, hardskills.
Some students go I was going toget you know, take a class on
Python and be a Python, and I'mlike, okay, great, but you still
got to go get a gig andinterview and blah, blah, blah.
So networking oh God, jen,there's so much I mean that
they're needing help with.

(13:43):
And when I talk to studentsthey come up with a curveball.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
I'm like let me think it out and whip up a video you
know, yeah, and I just I think,adding to the hard skills
because A you have to have someof those skills to get the job
and then to move forward and besuccessful, regardless of your
computer program or engineer,you engineer.

(14:06):
If you want to go places, youneed to be able to communicate
and that's probably the bestskill that you can get.
And I think oftentimes peoplethink of public speaking as well
.
I'm never, ever going to speakin front of an auditorium with
30,000 people.
It's like, well, maybe not, butyou're going to be in, like you
said said a small group ofpeople coming from all different

(14:26):
backgrounds, and you might bethe team leader or you might not
be a team leader, but you haveto contribute to that group.
And if you can learn how tocommunicate and listen, which is
part of communication, then youcan really be a powerful person
within your organization andwithin what you do, and that's
going to get you recognized.

Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah, without question, and all like that.
But the other thing aboutcommunications too is, when it
comes to moving up the ladder,the one who communicates the
better is going to have a betterchance than the person who sits
in the cubicle and just does areally great job.
But you know, they can't lead.
They don't know all theirassociates, they have no idea
what's going on, they don'tunderstand the politics of the
organization.
So there's so many angles to it.
But yeah, I mean withoutquestion, so yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
All right.
So you're sitting around,you're doing technical sales and
you're suddenly like, hey, Iwant to write a book about
careers, you know, careers bythe people, candid career advice
from experienced professionals.
That is your book.
Like how did that get startedand why did you decide to write
that?

Speaker 2 (15:23):
Yeah, and that's I really.
I really appreciate thatquestion because it's it's it's
kind of like the crux of myworld.
Here's what happened basicallyis Because I was a
first-generation low-income.
There was only one answer forany type of gig how much money
can you make?
Money, money, money, money,money.
The idea of satisfaction or joyis out the window.

(15:45):
Could care less?
An FGLI will take a job for onemore dollar an hour if the job
they totally hated, just to makethe extra money, because it's
so ingrained.
Money is the root to allhappiness.
That's all they know.
And and it hasn't changed.
And people always say like, ohyeah, the world's changed.
No, it hasn't, it's the same.
I talk to students all the timenothing has changed.

(16:05):
Um, so why did I do it?
It's, and that's a good.
I mean, people can say whatthey want about higher powers,
but in my head I believe in it.
Because the fact is, why wasthis given to me, this idea?
I don't know, but I could actupon it.
A lot of people have ideas oh,I'm a great idea, man.
They don't do a damn thing withit.
But in this situation it wasdrilled at me and it was the

(16:29):
proverbial monkey on the backthat was just bashing me in the
head saying get this done.
And so I really thought aboutit, angles and ideas and all
like that.
And the thing that really irkedthe hell out of me is when you
read about these people in theircareers.
Everybody has their views andopinions, but yet the guys got a
PhD in psychology from a topnotch university and he's

(16:50):
talking about the plight of theworker.
He's never painted a housebefore.
He's never, you know.
You know, I mean put bags on anairplane.
So I'm like, you know, I'mgoing to go after those guys,
people that are doing everythingfrom A to Z and I truly don't
care.
You love your job, you hateyour job.
Let's get it on paper and in mybook.
You know what I mean.
So I have CEOs, actuaries,accountants.

(17:12):
Each of them has 20 plusquestions, majority of five plus
years in their field, and so Igot this, all these questions
done, and I was like I asked alot of people I knew in the
industry to go what do you think?
And they're like I like thisone, this one might add this one
.
So I did all this qualitycontrol to find this information
out and I got this informationand people started filling out
my questionnaires and it was.

(17:33):
It was intense and I couldn'tbelieve some of the wild ones I
got.
I mean, some were horrible, butthose get deleted and some are
amazing.
So for book one it's 101.
For book two, it's going to be102.
English 101, english 102, right, right, right.
So the other thing too is it'slike what's my thought process?
It's like what can I do?

(17:53):
So the thought of the book iswhat I should have done to
prepare for the real world.
And I do not bash or badmouththe University of Massachusetts,
it's not like you said, it'snot their issue.
I did go to the career centerbut my mind was elsewhere.
It's just like I was justtrying to figure out how do I
get out of school and you get somany different angles like
pulling at you, which isn't abad thing, but it's like I think

(18:21):
, for some students that are sobaffled, it's like maybe get out
of college and then startreally focusing in if you
haven't got around to it.
But so that's what happenedwith me.
But of course, my thing was Iworked at the liquor store and a
couple of days a week wasinterviewing for, like the real
world jobs and that's how it allstarted.
But then, but then, you know,after making the cash in
technology sales, this ideapopped in my head and with money

(18:41):
you can do things and insteadof going out the golf course or
taking those great vacations oryou know, you know, thinking
you're so dynamite, I'm like youknow what, I'm gonna get
something done and somethingcool, and I'm gonna get this
book out there and, and that'swhat my gift is out there and
that's what I babble and talk tothe students about, and that's
why I'm writing book two as well, because I think, like you and
I said First Gen, the potentialis out there.

(19:04):
These young people are out thereand they've got great minds,
but yet they're from areas wherepeople do like where I grew up
in North Weymouth five or sixdifferent gigs.
And to have them come out ofthose areas and do something
different, it's going to take alot of steps.
They're going to have to dealwith it and talk to a lot of
people and have to really narrowthis down and figure it out,

(19:24):
and so maybe I can help them ina small way, uh, and go from
there.
So that's, that's my, that'sall I do, all I do all the time.
I mean 24 by 7, basically.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
So yeah, yeah, I mean I think I think for a lot of
students you know you're in highschool and you're basically
taking the, the five majorcourses, with the, with the few
modifications, but you're takingmath and science and english
and and history and a languageyou know and most schools.
But then you go to college.
You know if, if you do get togo to college, suddenly there's

(19:55):
you know, depending on where yougo, 70, 100, 300 majors,
combined majors, dual majors,all these things you can look at
and your world opens up and insome ways it's like I don't know
what to do with all thosethings.
But I know doctor, lawyer,engineer, and I know that they
make money, so I'm going to haveto choose one of those.
And so really having studentsstart to think about there's so

(20:18):
many other things out there like, oh, you want to be in business
, well, we're in business, didyou know?
And then you know that wholeworld opens up and I think you
know by you talking to thesefolks and getting that
information and saying like, hey, share some of these things,
you know it a more narrative wayof looking at, like the

(20:39):
occupational outlook handbook,right, that will give you some
information, but it's not nearlylike as good as combining that
with your book and what thepeople who are doing the job are
saying.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
What is it with that?
I mean, I'll give you anexample of a Saturday.
I'm not going to tell you thename of the school it's in the
West coast or in the midwest, orwhatever, and that was the
debate they go.
Why should we bring you in whenwe can have it?
Was it, would you say?
The hammock was called the one,the one that the occupational
outlook can?
oh, yeah, we can use that yeah,and I'm like really I go.
It says basically a paintermakes 18, 25 an hour and he or

(21:14):
she wakes up at 8, 45 and it'slike paints a wall.
I go it's awful, I go it shouldbe deleted.
I mean, why not not deleted?
But you don't.
I mean it should be.
I mean it's, it's, it'sgibberish.
Basically some guy in a cornerin dc writing a big stuff and
all this thing, everything withthis money, stuff.
I'll give an example on money.
This was great.
One of the high schools I spoketo in boston area is two

(21:36):
students.
Both came from the next townover, which is a brockton,
basically a rough town, roughplace and the students are
commuting over to a better area.
And I'm speaking to him and oneof the students is like these
ideas and he was coming up withthese questions.
I'm like, oh my god.
I'm like I'm so it's basicallymyself and like I don't know
7500 students and I'm reallyfocused on this one young young
student and this.

(21:57):
I'm thinking so it's basicallymyself and like I don't know
7,500 students and I'm reallyfocused on this one young
student and I'm thinking tomyself this guy's like a genius.
Who is next?
You know, whatever, elon Musk.
And so I'm like, ok.
And then another student'sasking questions I just want
money, money, money.
How much do you make?
What are you worth?
Blah, blah, blah I'm and he wasjust driving me nuts and I go
OK, that's it.
You just want money.

(22:17):
Easiest question in the worldGet an MBA from Wharton, be an
investment banker on Wall Street, and it's $3 to $5 million a
year.
Does that keep you happy?
You know what I mean.
But it's the other student thatwas like I'm trying to do these
in businesses, I'm trying toget this stuff done.
And it's because any of thesereports that come out going you
know best jobs or highest payingjobs some of them are nonsense.

(22:39):
They go and, like ananesthesiologist, makes like
$325,000.
Okay, that's great $325,000,there's nothing wrong with that.
That's good money.
But if you're an investmentbanker like I just talked about,
or a venture capitalist making$7 million, $15 million, I mean,
I remember years ago MichaelMilken made $450 million, even
though he probably stole most ofit, but some of these guys are

(22:59):
crushing it.
Not a good example?
Yeah, exactly, but some ofthese people out there in the
marketplace are crushing it, butyet they're looking at these
and so just pull away from themoney.
What interests you, what are yougood at and what can make you a
couple bucks so you actuallyenjoy Monday mornings?
That's the whole angle, becauseyou're going to wake up
students at 28, 35, 72.

(23:21):
I mean not 72, you know, likein the 50s or whatever, and are
they looking forward to Mondayor are they dreading it because
they chose an awful career justfor money.
And you know they have to, youknow.
So that's right, because Ithink I might be the only
speaker in America that will goout there and say, hey, I made a
few bucks, not big money, butyou know more than what you can

(23:42):
make, where I grew up and why Idespised it.
You know why I could have donebetter with myself.
There's no.
All these speakers go out thereand they say how great they are
, you know, and tell students torun an extra mile or drink more
water.
Nobody to run an extra mile ordrink more water.
Nobody goes out there and saysyou know what?
I didn't prepare and this iswhat happened.
And do you want to be me in 30years?
So that's why I always tell theschools like, oh, I'm the token

(24:04):
, you're not going to getanybody like me out there.
They're all hype men, you knowit's like.
Oh, I never made a wrongdecision.

Speaker 1 (24:13):
I'm perfect.
Yeah, no-transcript.

(24:45):
Look at what you like to learnand then think about, and then
use my book or talk to peopleyourself about what they're
doing that you want to go intoyeah, I 100, there's no question
.

Speaker 2 (24:59):
I mean they really get it.
I always tell them narrow itdown to you know what industries
interest you?
I go.
I was in tech, it didn'tinterest me.
So that, I think, is anachilles heel constantly because
, um, I couldn't stay focused ona lot of conversations because
it just bored me to death.
You have to find an industrythat interests you.
I go.
At the end of the day you'llprobably read about that
industry and I go.

(25:19):
The other thing too is you canbounce around the industry, but
at least you're going to besomebody who's bringing
knowledge.
I mean I had to fake it for 30years.
I mean I brought in a lot ofknowledge, but it was just
because you know to survive orpay more bills, or you know get
more money in the bank orsomething like that.

(25:41):
Oh, frank Parsons.
You know Frank Parsons is theOG of vocation and Frank says,
other than a spouse, your second.
You know, your biggest choicein life is a career and this was
and he wrote this in 1909.
And still to this day peoplelike, oh, I got to get that TV.
That's like, yeah, you got toget a TV, that's great.

(26:01):
Not like that, but for the loveof Jesus.
I mean just sit there and justdo some homework about career
opportunities, what's out there.
You know, have you spoke to howmany people in the industry you
want to go into?
How many people you speak tohow many have your job shattered
?
Have you spoke to anybody thatleft?
I mean I sit there and I justrapidly drill them with
questions of like you know, comeon, but once in a while in my

(26:21):
next book one example onestudent is she's going into law
and I was like really drillingher about questions they go have
you spoke to?
She goes yep, worked in a lawfirm in the summit three years
ago.
Excellent, I go.
You connected with the lawyers.
Yes, I have three or fourmentors.
I'm like, perfect, I go everyjob shadow.
She goes yes, we do that.
I'm like, okay, well, because Imean a lot of people I've known

(26:42):
in the industry I mean just ingeneral the years got these law
degrees and never went into lawor just took it for three to
five years.
I mean she's really adamantabout it, which is awesome.
Yeah, right.

Speaker 1 (26:52):
She's done her homework.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
She's doing amazing homework, yep, and she's from a
high school.
She went to high school ascareer in technical education,
so that helps out immensely too.

Speaker 1 (27:09):
So that's a whole nother can of worms which is
dynamite.
There is some good stuffhappening out there.
Yes, yeah, oh, I think so,absolutely.
I mean, I think there is a movetowards helping students.
You know I'll speak from thecollege front, since I work at a
college, but you know, on thecollege front, helping students
connect what they're learning inclassroom to an internship, or
you know, research, which isalso hands-on learning.
You know, doing some sort ofyou've learned this, now put it

(27:29):
into practice and then come backwith what you learned in
practice and that's going toinform what just really helps
students move forward and decideyes, I like this or no, I don't

(27:49):
like this.
And if I do like this, well,what more experience can I get?
What's the next level ofexperience I can get before I
leave college?

Speaker 2 (27:59):
Which is awesome.
You have to get them in thereal world as soon as possible.
I mean, northeastern does it.
I mean, even when I was workingfor Deli, we had an intern from
northeastern and I'm like what?
And he told me about theprogram.
I'm like, uh, wow, I go just so.
Yeah, I mean I can't give uhnortheastern any more uh props
than one can, I mean.
But I mean we need this, needsto be more schools like that, or

(28:19):
more schools, even if theydon't want to be like
northeastern career explorationclasses.
And if they don't have them, um, the students either gonna have
to go to the local communitycollege and take those remote or
whatever.
But you have to get involvedwith it, because it's just
tiring and tiring when studentgoes into.
I mean, like the premise reallyof the next book of the angle is

(28:40):
student goes into college, okay, and he, he or she 18.
I want to be an electricalengineer.
Nothing against that profession.
They're like great, here's thepaperwork, give me $100,000,
versus saying, awesome,congratulations, excellent
profession.
Why do you want to be anelectrical engineer?
What do you know aboutelectrical engineering?
Have you met an electricalengineer?

(29:01):
Blah, blah.
And here's the thing about it.
As we talked about earlier, thestudents that are
well-connected from the families, with cash it doesn't matter.
They come home with anelectrical engineering degree.
I'm sure a friend of a friendof a family or a network will
get them into a job in bankingDone.
They'll be like oh yeah, hiya,bob, blah, blah, blah, but a
first-generation low-income.
They come out with anengineering degree and they're

(29:27):
done.
If they don't prepare and theydon't understand it, because
they wasted a lot of time andmoney and now they're in debt or
they have some other issuesgoing on and they're not ready
for the real world.
And so these are the studentsthat really have to do a little
more work and homework, becausethey have to figure out what is
the best opportunity for themafter, after high school,

(29:48):
college, military or whatever,what are they preparing
themselves for and how?
And so with schools likenortheastern and some of the
ones that have a careerexploration classes, at least
they'll understand what they'regetting themselves into.

Speaker 1 (29:59):
So yeah, right, right , the schools that offer the
co-ops and and I think that youknow and we talked about this a
little bit that ability for afirst-gen student to networkolve
where they are working withcompanies to talk about

(30:26):
transitioning first gen studentsand mentoring and getting them
familiar with the culture asthey come in.
But that's kind of after thestudent has thought about their
decision, about the why.
And I mean, I think the why iscrucial anyway to start asking
in high school.
The first is like why do youwant to go to college?

(30:47):
Because maybe the career thatyou're looking at does not
require a four-year degree.
And so what is the next stepthen after high school that gets
you into the career you want togo into.
That really speaks to you, thecareer you want to go into.

(31:09):
That really speaks to you.
Um, and it may be pollyanna-ishof me, but I always think that
if you go into something thatyou love, that you really enjoy,
that you wake up monday andyou're like all right, I'm
hitting it, then your life isbetter, uh, and that you tend to
be better in that job, and thenyou get recognition, which then
leads to other things,including more money and more
opportunity.
And if you don't like your job,unless you are really able to

(31:32):
sort of compartmentalize and say, well, this is just my job, I'm
just doing this, and then youfind your joy and your
connection outside of work.
I think it's so much easier ifyou have a job you really like
maybe not love, but that youlike it yeah, that's actually a
point that I make too.

Speaker 2 (31:50):
It's called good to great.
I go.
Do you want to?
I go.
Do you want to be good at yourjob?
Raise your hand and some do,and then they get all bad.
I go.
Okay, ready, because you guysget a chance to listen to me,
because your school did a greatjob, I'll get me in here.
I want, I want, you all to begreat we're going to figure that
out to be great, I go.
I was good at technology salesbecause I just did what you did.
I did just exactly how you saidit.

(32:10):
I go.
I faked my career for the cash,but I want you guys not only to
make the cash.
I want you to honestly enjoywhat you're doing, have an
interest in that.
I go.
Somebody over here might likespace exploration or somebody
over here might be intoarchaeology or you know biology
or something to that nature.
So we got to figure that outand see where you can really

(32:33):
crank it, because I mean beingthe greatest.
I would say I go.
Maybe you're going to be thegreatest cpa in in akron, ohio,
and that's and that'srespectable.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
Yeah I also think about it.

Speaker 2 (32:43):
You just want to be the best at what you're doing in
your.
You know your area in the worldand so let's try to figure that
out.
And you know I mean sometimesyou're going to, you know you're
going to connect it right, andother students are just like
oblivious, they just, I know,lost, which is sad to see, but
we do see it.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
Yeah, and, and you know I like to think that
college is the perfect place todo that trial and error, to see
where it is again.
You know, I mean it's always alot about the money, and if
you're getting financial aid orif you don't have a lot of money
, you kind of have to make yourdecisions fairly quick and you
don't get to experiment quite asmuch, and so if you make a
mistake it can cost you, and soyou know, I think you know,

(33:25):
always, using the resources atthe college is one thing that I
encourage students to do is findout where the resources are and
, like, get in and make friendswith all those people so that
they can give you some of theirknowledge to maybe help you
avoid a hurdle or two.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
Yeah, and the research I'm doing for book two.
I'm speaking to all thesestudents around the United
States.
I basically did it already, soI'm just going to now he's got
to clean it up.
You know a lot of them in,thank God they're getting a real
world information from theirprofessors who actually worked
in the real world.
That was a big one too.
They a lot of them did like thecareer centers, but they really
enjoyed having a one-on-onewith the professors who actually

(34:07):
worked in that industry andthat was awesome to read.
So that was one of the snippetsthat I, when I was doing all
the you know like analyzing allthe research, I'm like, oh my
God, this is great.
This is some information Iwould you know I got to be
speaking more about.
So that's good information.
But you're right, they have totalk to people in the real world
.

Speaker 1 (34:27):
Yeah, and then encouraging you know for us, you
know for for you, who arelistening for me like
encouraging the students andgiving them the tools to go talk
to the faculty so that they canthey can get that information
from somebody who's living itright in that minute and who's
doing it and teaching it, whichI think makes them even better
at it.
If you can do it and you canteach it, then you really know

(34:49):
what you're talking about.

Speaker 2 (34:50):
Yeah yeah, yeah, which is amazing, and it's rare
these days too, you know, let'sface it.
If somebody's running you knowa company, x, y or z, they've
got you know 10 minutes extra aweek to do to do anything you
know.
So, um, but yeah, you're rightif they can go out there or you
know, here's.
The other thing, too, is withthe.
With the, because you're in thecareer world, I always say this
is like what's.
And some of the studentscomplain about the, the career

(35:12):
centers, it.
Just, you know, they hiresometimes younger people with
not really a lot of experience.
It's, it's like it'd be greatif they could go up to some of
the older people who've got 20years in a field and say you
know what, what?
I know you're ready forretirement, but how are 20 hours
a week or something like that?
You know, make these little youknow gestures that go to the
alumni.
So it's always, it's alwaysinteresting how the schools work

(35:35):
with the alumni and how theydon't work.
Pride, you know, but anyways,that's you know.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
I think a lot of schools are really tapping into
that alumni group and thatalumni experience and I mean
there's so many that I'mfamiliar with have like LinkedIn
pages for alumni and thenencourage their students to go
to that LinkedIn page becauseright away you have something in
common with somebody thatyou're reaching out to.
I went to the same school yougraduated from.

(36:03):
Can we connect?
And I think the other thing forstudents is to let them know
that people are ready andwilling to talk to them, right?
People get excited like, oh,somebody wants to talk about my
career path, right.
And students think like, oh,nobody wants to spend time with
me.
But I think, for both highschool and college students,
people are really happy to sharetheir path and pitfalls and

(36:27):
successes with youngergenerations.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
Yeah, umass has some first generation group or
whatever, and I always informthe students if they ever want
to talk.
So once in a blue moon you geta call or a message or whatever,
and some are actually quiteshocking.
Like, really, you got a degreefrom Eisenberg School and you
can't find a job.
The moment you get a call or amessage or whatever, and some
are actually quite shocking,you're like, really, you got a
degree from Eisenberg School andyou can't find a job.
Okay, where are the weaknesses?
And then you do a call with theperson and you find out okay, I

(36:54):
know what the weaknesses are,but you just try to.
Okay, you got to open it up.
You can work in more places inBoston and New York, you know.

Speaker 1 (37:03):
So, but for first gen low income students, you know,
because there's that, there's somuch and maybe you probably
felt this too there's so muchpressure on them to not only do
well for themselves but to alsogo and do well for their
families.

Speaker 2 (37:18):
That was so I did a year or so ago, probably two
years ago, when I first startedthis process process.
I was on a call with that andit was, um, some schools around
new england I can't think whichones, like, like lowell and
bridgewater, I mean I forgetwhich schools but the students,
when they were speaking, thatwas a big issue for them.
They go, the pressure on themwas, uh, a lot, um for them

(37:39):
because, you're right, thefamily is like they're giving
this person the chance to go outthere and get the degree or go
to college versus working, andyou know, so they better come
out strong with it and prepared,and so they have to deal with
that a lot.
So that is, but again, but thenagain, again, a little pressure
isn't a bad thing sometimesbecause they have to be pushed.

(38:00):
I mean, people have to bepushed outside their comfort
zone to a point, but hopefullythey do use resources to connect
with people.
But it was, it was aninteresting angling call in my
situation was just like just geta degree and and that was it.
But then again, you know, timeshave changed a little bit.
The fact is, if the studentsare in school, go out there.

(38:21):
Do your best, try to figure outwhat you're going to do with
yourself, and that's all you cando, really.
I mean you can't, there's notmuch more.
But you use the resources andthey have to understand.
They have to go out there andknock on doors.
Go to the career centers, talkto this, talk to the professors,
talk to the alumni.
Go to the alumni events.

Speaker 1 (38:38):
I mean so, yeah, and I think to understand too that
the decision that they make whenthey're 18, deciding on a major
, let's say, or when they're 22,going into their first career,
is not their life.
They can change.
You know, they may not be ableto change their major, obviously
, but you know, when they're 22,.
But they can get a master'sdegree if they find they're

(38:59):
really in love with somethinglater, or they can go to that
first job and be like you know,this maybe isn't the right path
for me.
I'm going to pivot and you knowthey do have that opportunity.
I think some of the pressure islike this is, this is my career.
If I don't get it right, likeright now, I have no other way
to do anything.
So you know, I think some ofwhat we can do is to take to say

(39:22):
, yes, you can do the homework,yes, you can find everything out
, but sometimes, until you're init, you may discover like I
love what I do, I don't likethis company.
You pivot right.
Or I love the company, butmaybe I want to do something
different in it because I needto pivot that way and realizing
like it's okay to switch aroundas you go through to try to find

(39:42):
your way.

Speaker 2 (39:43):
That's 100% correct.
I've met so many peoplethroughout my career who you
know.
I'll give you an example.
I know a guy who's the CEO of acompany, a major IT company,
and when he went to college, Ibelieve, he did literature,
which is fun.
So I like what you did right.
And he came out and he got intech and he became an engineer
and then he started moving hisway up to chief technology

(40:05):
officer and I saw recently hewas a ceo and I'm like I reached
out to him like, oh my god,you'll congratulate.
I love, love to see when the thegood guys make it, but you
never know where your career isgoing to go, uh, and so people
have to understand that.
It's like you know, even if youmake, your decisions are, you
know, kind of skewed.
When you're younger, you knowthey change up.
The other thing too is I knowstudents that go the brain

(40:27):
doesn't fully develop untilyou're 25.
And so that's another thing toois their mind's all over the
place as well.
So they're putting a lot ofpressure on them in 18, 19, and
20 to make these major decisionswhen they're not mentally ready
for it.
So you've got to deal with thatas well.
So there's a lot of angles andthings to look at, but I always
keep telling them to just, youknow, focus, to try to figure

(40:48):
out what you enjoy and stickwith that.
You know those couple ofindustries.
So I mean, you know, and I dotalk to students.
Example one student I talked to.
He was a friend from a studentI knew at UMass.
His friend in Florida goes.
He goes hey, I think it waslike Josh told me to call you or
whatever.
And I'm like okay, man, I'lltalk to you.
What's going on?
He goes I'm lost.

(41:10):
I go why are you lost?
Tell me.
He goes I got my engineeringdegree from one of the Florida
states, one of the Floridaschools, like Florida IU or
something like that.
And he goes I couldn't find agig.
So I just started selling realestate and I'm like, no way I go
.
Wow, that's a weird transition.
But how do you like it?
He goes I like parts of it andI don't like other parts of it.
And I'm like, okay, what do youlike about it?
He goes I like talking to theclients, prospects.

(41:31):
I like trying to sell, figureall this stuff out.
I don't like the paperwork.
I go, nobody does.
I go.
But here's the thing is I go.
You have for years I go.
They can explain theengineering part, but they work

(41:54):
with the sales reps to go outthere and explain the detailed
scenarios and I go.
Sales engineers usually enjoywhat they're doing, so he was
really focused on trying to findone of those gigs.
Last thing I heard he was likehe was.
He told me he was into speedand I'm like what does that mean
?
He goes.
You know airlines, cars, trains, boats and all that stuff.
So now he's working on gettinghis pilot's license and you know

(42:14):
so he's just so I mean.
But that's the thing, though heat least he's sticking with an
industry he's going into.

Speaker 1 (42:16):
So it's right, yeah, and he called you as someone who
could give him some moreinformation about what he was
interested in.
So he, he, he also did somepublic speaking right, he put
himself out there to talk to youand spoke with you.
So, yeah, all the, all theother sort of skills that we
talked about, yeah, yeah, Ithink that's, I think that's
really good, well, it's awesome,I mean anytime you're talking

(42:39):
to students in schools.

Speaker 2 (42:39):
Whatever I'm all geared up for yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
We've been talking for a while now, so I think I'm
going to wrap it up, because wehave covered kind of everything
and lots of things about careers, and I want any listener who
wants to reach out to you,either to find more about your
book or how to engage you as aspeaker, or just wants to give
you a call and find out more.
How can they reach you?

Speaker 2 (43:04):
Yeah, there's three really easy ways to get a hold
of me.
One would be my website isCareers by the People.
So I mean you can just Googleme anywhere Careers by the
People or Wysocki Careers Easyto find.
I'm on LinkedIn Easy to find.
I'm the only guy named Wysocki,I think in Maui, so I mean not
too difficult.
The other thing, too, is I havea YouTube channel with over 100

(43:24):
videos on career readiness atCareers by the People.
So you know, if you totallyforget everything, just remember
my last name WysockiW-Y-S-O-C-K-I and careers, and
you'll be able to find me.
I mean, I'm out there, so anywayyou can help out with
suggestions and ideas, so feelfree.
And you can help out withsuggestions and ideas, so feel

(43:45):
free.
And if you want to buy the book, awesome.
And if you don't have any money, if you're really tight on cash
, always feel free to go to yourlocal library and request it.
That's another way too.
Yeah, yes, a lot of good thingsout there, so just feel free to
connect.
And I got an e-book as well,too.

Speaker 1 (44:01):
All right, and I will put.
I will put all those ways toconnect with you in the in the
show notes too, so you can.
If you were driving in the carand couldn't write anything down
, you can write that down now.

Speaker 2 (44:12):
Especially colleges, and colleges are looking for
speakers.
I'm different than everybodyelse.

Speaker 1 (44:16):
I'll tell you that All right, Well, thank you so
much, Mike.
I really appreciated you beingon the show and and talking with
us, and and I hope you enjoythe beautiful weather that
you're having in Maui.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
Thank you very much.
I appreciate your time and yourquestions, thanks, thank you,
jen.

Speaker 1 (44:32):
Thank you for being here with me today and if you
want to get in touch with me,you can find me at Jen that's
J-E-N.
At FirstGenFMcom and at mywebsite is FirstGenFMcom and at
my website is firstgenfmcom.
I look forward to talking withyou again next week and, as
always, I love to hear a ratingand review and helps other

(44:55):
people find the podcast.
Thanks so much for today andwe'll talk to you next week.