October 8, 2024 • 33 mins
First-generation students have unique needs as they navigate their transition from college to their first professional career. Join me as I chat with Cesar Margarito, whose transformative journey from a small Mexican town to working on his a doctoral degree at the University of Southern California sheds light on the experiences of first-generation professionals. Cesar's passion for education and student support is apparent as he shares personal stories about his family influences, educational pursuits, and his pivotal involvement with TRIO programs. His doctoral research dives into the challenges these new professionals face, offering insights to help shape how we support first-generation students in their career paths.
In this episode, we expand on the importance of career exploration for college students, especially when it comes to understanding organizational culture. Cesar and I discuss everything from the power of networking and the role of career services to practical strategies like mentoring and leveraging existing networks. Through anecdotes about teaching professional etiquette and more, we underscore the nuances of career readiness. Whether you're an educator, a student, or someone passionate about supporting first-generation professionals, this episode has valuable advice and actionable strategies to help bridge the gap between education and a successful career.
Please help others find this podcast by rating and reviewing wherever you listen!
You can find me at https://www.firstgenfm.com/ and on LinkedIn. My email is jen@firstgenfm.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome and welcome back to the First Gen FM podcast
, where we high school andcollege educators strengthen,
celebrate and supportfirst-generation college and
college-bound students.
I'm Jennifer Schoen, your host.
Please call me Jen.
I'd love it if you could leavea review and a rating for this
podcast to help other educatorsfind us.
Thank you so much for takingthe time to do that.
(00:27):
Now let's dive into this week'sepisode.
Today's guest is Cesar Margarito, and Cesar was born in a small
town in Jalisco, mexico, andthen came to the United States
when he was about 10.
He grew up in a smallagricultural town in the Salinas
Valley and his college journeybegan at a local community
(00:48):
college before he transferred toCal Poly where he earned both
his bachelor's and his master'sdegree.
He's currently completing hisdoctorate in education in
organizational change andleadership at the University of
Southern California, and hisdissertation is going to be
focused on the transitionalexperiences of first-generation
(01:08):
professionals, and that's whatwe're going to talk about today
what he's discovered so far inhis dissertation process, how
his dissertation is going, andmore about the journey that
first-generation professionalsexperience.
So let's welcome Cesar to thepodcast, all right?
Well, let's jump right in.
I am here with Cesar Margaritoand we are going to talk about
(01:32):
his dissertation, the literaturereview and everything that's
going into looking into thetransitional experiences of
first-gen students intoprofessional jobs, and I'm
really excited.
Cesar, thank you so much forjoining me today.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Thank you, Jennifer.
Thank you for having me.
I look forward to theconversation, just opening the
dialogue a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Yeah, absolutely, because I know we talked about
this before that it used to beall about access for first-gen
students to college, and then itwas all about college success
for first-gen students, and nowI think the thing that we need
to go next is what's happeningwith them when they get into
that professional job.
So I'm excited to talk with youand hear about that, but of
(02:17):
course, I want to know what wasthe spark that got you
interested in education andespecially working with First
Gen yeah, so it's very much apersonal journey.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
My parents were very adamant about education, which
is the reason why we immigratedfrom Mexico to the US.
They really stress educationand really had a high regard for
educators in general, and I hadthree other siblings and three
out of the four went intoeducation.
(02:51):
Oh, wow Two of them areteachers.
I'm a little on the outside ofteaching but education related
and we have one engineer in thefamily so we don't talk about
him.
No, we're very proud of him, aswell as the other siblings.
But I think that was thecatalyst for me to going into
(03:11):
education.
Initially I wanted to go intoteaching, but then once I really
found out more about all theadditional hard work long nights
, weekends, all those differentthings I don't know if I want to
do that.
I don't want to help students.
So my first role out of collegewas actually as an outreach
(03:33):
advisor with TRIO programs.
So that's kind of what led medown the path of outreach and
student support and all that andall that.
But it came from that right,that love and the idea that you
know, through education we wouldhave a better life than our
parents had, right.
So that's kind of where thespark of education, and
(03:54):
certainly for this population.
You know the fact that I myselfam a first-generation student,
what that means and theconnection that I have with
students and the passion toadvocate for students.
That's kind of where it comesfrom.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Yeah, yeah, and certainly the TRIO program would
be a great start to be able todo that.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
And so then you decided you know what?
I'm going to go back and get mydoctoral degree.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I did.
It took a while.
I sat on that question forquite a while after my master's.
It was probably about 10, 12years between my master's and me
finally deciding to you knowwhat let me apply to a program,
and part of it was I didn't knowwhat I wanted to do.
To do the pros that are outthere I mean, there's so many
(04:46):
now and with programs also goingonline, it kind of gives you
access to other universitiesthat are, you know, outside of
your area, so all thosedifferent things.
So I really kind of grappledwith that question of what I
want to study and where andfinally settled on this idea of
first-generation professionals.
That was kind of the questionand where can I do that?
(05:07):
So I did, I only applied to oneschool and I ended up getting
in.
So in the winter of 2019, Istarted my doctoral program at
USC in the Organizational Changeand Leadership Program.
It's been a wonderfulexperience experience and
(05:27):
actually ran on the cusp offinishing my dissertation
Hopefully by spring is thedeadline because I don't want to
be ABD for the rest of my life.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Yes, no, no.
You definitely don't want that,Definitely don't want that.
So tell me more about what,what you're studying and and
what you've just discovered sofar in in the beginning phases
of your dissertation.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Uh, as you kind of said at theonset of the interview, I'm
looking at the transitionalexperience of first-generation
professionals and that cameabout through my own personal
experience, my observations withcolleagues around me, but also
with our students.
At that time I was doing directsupports through the student
services program also a trioprogram and that's one of the
(06:15):
questions that eventually Istarted looking at is OK, we're
preparing these students tograduate, right, they're going
through the curriculum, they'regetting internships and they're
getting these awesome jobs, butsometimes they don't stay in
them.
They end up pivoting, and notthat they jump from one company
(06:39):
to another, although that's awhole other phenomena.
But leaving this research andlearning about this concept of
professional socialization,which essentially it's just
looking more at a holistic wayof how individuals get
introduced and immersed into aprofession.
(06:59):
So there's differentdefinitions and depending on who
you talk to or what you read,you might see different
definitions.
But essentially professionalsocialization looks at knowledge
and skills, attitudes, valuesall that kind of make up
professional identity in aparticular field.
(07:19):
In my research most of it hascome through the health and
medical field and how structuredit is in that setting.
So I've not come across it asmuch in other settings.
Law there's a little bit of thatlegal field, but more so in the
medical, and I think last timeyou talked about the idea of
like a nursing preceptor interms of mentoring, because
(07:42):
mentoring is a big component ofthis, yes, and it's more guided,
targeted, however you want tolook at it, but definitely more
focused mentoring that helpsindividuals kind of navigate
that hidden curriculum.
You know we talked about lasttime how in academia there's
this idea, this concept of ahidden curriculum that students
(08:02):
need to learn to navigate,especially first-gen students,
and that's kind of where I'mfinding right now, that that
kind of experience kind ofreplicates itself in the
educational I'm sorry, in theprofessional setting, where
students or professionals needto learn right To navigate and
kind of not necessarily startall over but start a new setting
(08:23):
.
And that's a key component tothat is mentoring.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yeah, yeah, you're right.
I mean, it's such a bigtransition.
I remember a student telling methat when she got a job she you
know first-generation studentgraduates goes into her
professional position and shereached out to her mom and said
you know, mom, should I get intothis retirement plan?
You know I can put in money andthey'll match it.
And her mom was like no, don'tdo it, because if you leave
(08:50):
there they get to keep all yourmoney.
And because her mom didn't knowand luckily this student had
other people to reach out toback on campus, the program that
she was part of, to get somemore answers about that but who
do you reach out to if you don'tknow those things, unless you
have that kind of mentoringgoing on or, I would say, like a
(09:13):
very patient HR department thatis willing to kind of walk you
through the hidden curriculum?
Speaker 2 (09:18):
True, absolutely Right.
So I think it takes.
You know, a lot of us learn bydoing and stumble and, you know,
learn from experiences andmistakes, however you want to
phrase them, but that comes at acost.
Like, for example, not notdirectly to first gen, but low
(09:38):
income, and there's kind of acorrelation between first gen
and low income Right, relationbetween first-gen and low-income
right, but over the course of alifetime.
There's a study that I foundthat individuals, professionals
from low-income backgrounds, endup earning considerably less
than non-first-gen ornon-low-income individuals, even
when they have the same majorlike very same background,
(10:00):
similar credentials and, forexample, benefit packages, right
, and looking at those and weighthose in.
So, all those different things,it's a new language I think I
mentioned that the other dayright, that we have to learn the
definitions and how to navigateand be able to kind of weigh
those things, especially, youknow, coming as a brand new
(10:21):
professional right out ofcollege, you know sometimes you
might go by that salary, but ifthere's no benefits or it's a
very weak benefit packages,right, what does that mean in
the long term?
Yeah, not too long actually.
My fiance and I were talkingabout retirement.
We're still a few years fromretirement.
But looking ahead, and she's insocial work and her jobs you
(10:46):
know, unfortunately, have a 401,three B's associated retirement
plan, that she's myself workingthrough a lot of public
institutions here in California.
I actually have a pension planright, the CalPERS pension plan
in California, which nowpensions are very few and far
between right.
There are very few employersthat offer pensions, so you know
(11:09):
what that means.
Right is that you know myretirement is a little bit more
secure than hers.
Obviously, you know marketperformance and all those
different things do come intoeffect, but it's something that
it took me a while to kind ofsink in that.
Okay, I kind of stumbled, youknow, into the right type of
jobs, not knowing again longterm that at least for me it's a
(11:35):
little bit more of a securityblanket when it comes down to
requirement than a traditional403B or 401K.
Those little things, right, Imean I say little now, but
they're important.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Yeah, it's those little things, right.
I mean I say little now, butthey're important, yeah.
And to think that and to bethat forward thinking when
you're going into a new job orwhen you're looking for a job,
and trying to figure all thatout, like what does this mean
and what are the differences?
And you know, sometimes you'reweighing like apples and
chocolate bars, and you know,you just, it's really hard to
compare them without someonethere, even even in the pre-job
(12:09):
stage, right to guide you tothat and then, when you get to
the position you know, makingthat transition in what have you
found about, like, about whysome fields have that formal
mentoring as part of theirsocialization, Do you know?
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Well, I think, for example, in health, you know
they want the individuals to befully immersed, fully prepared
with all different elements, andpart of it is looking at from,
like, an organizationalstandpoint or a cultural
standpoint, right, that theyknow that these are the things
that you need to be successful,that you need to know along the
(12:46):
way to be able to succeed inthis field right.
So I think in some areas itlends itself a little bit better
, easier to kind of structurethose elements along the way,
right.
So with you know, healthdoctors, nurses, you know you
have the practicum and they haveto be in the field, right's, no
(13:07):
choice.
So the way that structure, youalready have that captive
audience there um, to be able toincorporate these, these
components, you know it's, it'sproven to be very useful and
beneficial and in theseindividuals being successfully
transitioned into the field, youknow, after their um, their
clinical rotations are, are, aredone, and so, again, I'm still
(13:32):
early on in this, but those arekind of some of the early
findings.
Yeah, but being able to kind oftake away and and uh, think
about, like, what that couldmean for other fields and, as I
mentioned before, kind of beingable to expand the conversation
to see how that can trickle downinto the college setting, into
the high school setting and whatthat could look like.
(13:54):
It helps set up all studentsfor success.
We were talking to was thatabout 30 to 40 percent of
individuals within the firstthree to five years end up
leaving their field.
Wow, that's been kind ofsomewhat a recent study.
(14:17):
So then that begs the questionof why.
Right, and I think, anecdotally,I'm sure you know of
individuals they may havepivoted elsewhere.
I have family, I have closefriends who have done that.
Actually, my best friendgraduated as an electrical
engineer, worked for a few yearsin the industry, didn't like it
(14:38):
and kind of pivoted.
He wasn't sure, kind ofreflected for a while and now
he's a winemaker, pivoted intothe wine industry and kind of
worked his way up.
And now he's a winemaker.
Givet into the wine industryand kind of worked his way up
and now he's a winemaker.
I'm sure there's still certainelements of engineering that he
uses in his day to day, butthat's not what he studied.
(14:59):
And all those late nights andthe stress of exams and finals,
all the different things, notthat they work for nothing, but
again, Right, that's a prettymajor pivot.
Absolutely, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Yeah, so is your hope that some of the things that
you discover will be able to beincorporated into I think you
said high schools and colleges,as a kind of bridge for students
to start thinking about theculture that they want to go
into.
You know, beyond the details ofthe benefits, but what does the
(15:33):
culture look like?
How does that?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
affect it.
I think the big aspiration ofmy research right is that it can
contribute to expanding theconversation and having both
educators and students rightkind of ask more or ask other
questions, right.
And I think one of the thingsin preparation for this that I
was looking at was I think it'sthe why, yes, right.
(16:00):
And I thought about differentstudents when I was working with
college students directly whocame in as freshmen excited
about whatever field, and thenafter the first quarter they
were struggling, right, it's notwhat they they thought and the
main reason why they did it wasbecause they were told that they
were good at x, right.
(16:22):
So an example would beengineering.
You're good at math and science.
You should be an engineer greatyou know you get paid well and
you know those different things.
But if it's not what theythought it was right, why are
they going into engineering,engineering, education, whatever
(16:51):
field, to kind of dig in deep alittle bit more and trying to
find out what that means and besuccessful in that area?
So that's kind of what I'mhoping is that I'm able to help
expand that conversation forindividuals to kind of think a
little bit more deeply andbroadly which kind of sounds
like an oxymoron, but really tokind of which kind of sounds
like an oxymoron, but really tokind of think of other things,
for example organizationalculture, and that can vary,
(17:14):
obviously, between organizationswithin the same field.
But just having that as anadditional dimension to consider
and talking to as many peopleas possible.
And I think this idea ofnetworking, we put it out there,
but especially with first-genstudents, do we really tell them
(17:34):
what it is to be a successfullike, to successfully network?
What does that mean?
Right, it's like okay, well,career day is here in the fall,
Go out there and talk to someemployers.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Hand out your resume a million times and say hi,
exactly right, like yeah there,and talk to some employers,
that's it.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Hand out your resume a million times and say right,
like, yeah, you're going to benetworking, okay, that's one way
to network.
Yeah, but again, having thoseconversations and kind of
expanding our own definitions orpreconceived notions of what
certain things mean in thisfield, to be able to get the
most out of it and the mostinformation, and really going
back to the why andunderstanding that this field,
to be able to get the most outof it and the most information,
(18:09):
and really going back to the whyand understanding that I want
to be X because of this and thisis what I want to do, and
talking to different peoplebeforehand and all those
different things.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
So yeah, I'm always encouraging students to go talk
to we call it career design atNortheastern.
But you know career development, career services early to get a
sense of what's out there,especially for students who may
not necessarily have a linearpath.
You study nursing, you're goingto go into nursing.
(18:41):
You study engineering, you'regoing to be an engineer, but
history, english, psychology,plenty more.
But there's so many optionsonce you leave about what you're
going to do.
Career services can start toask students those questions and
give them, I think, some thingsto think about when they're
trying to make those major andcareer decisions.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Yeah, absolutely, I think to that point.
I think with certain positionsas educators, it's a little bit
easier for us to be able toconnect to those resources.
Right, and in some cases Ithink that's one of the things
that, for me, I saw as a hugebenefit is that I had the luxury
of time, because the studentsthat I was working with in our
(19:28):
programs the number was a lotsmaller compared to like a
college advisor, right, thatmight have a thousand, 1200,
1500 people on their caseload,right, they're never going to
see every single student and ifthey do, it's what do you need
is very prescriptive approach.
What do you need?
You need a signature.
Go here, versus with otherpositions, you have a little bit
(19:49):
more time to actually sit down,have a conversation, but also
have a conversation with otherdepartments on campus and bring
the resources to the students.
That's the other thing, right,you tell a student go here, go
see so-and-so, or go to thisdepartment and they might not go
Right.
Right, but if you have a contact, contact is go here.
(20:11):
Go see Jennifer.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Okay, that might be more likely, right.
What I found is that if Ibrought Jennifer to the students
, then that's a little bit,that's a whole other difference,
right.
So it took me a while to kindof build my own network as well
on campus.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Oh, absolutely, especially if it's a big campus.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yeah, absolutely, and have those individuals you know
come to us.
You know so.
For example, you mentionedcareer services.
We had a pretty neat workshopon professional etiquette and
that was very, very broad, butit gave the basics.
You know something as simple asyou know how to for for
individuals wearing a suit, howto wear a suit, the how to do a
(20:52):
tie, the whole button rule,right like that to me.
Yeah, actually I was.
I spent some time with mynieces and nephews this last
weekend and we went to a familywedding and my nephew's wearing
suits and all the buttons werewere done like well, you know,
and we talked a little bit aboutthat like hey did you know that
there's this rule.
I don't know who made up therule, but no, you don't do all
(21:13):
the buttons, but why?
I, I don't know, but that's therule.
Um, but little things like thatright, going back to the hidden
curriculum, career services, orwhen we brought in hr, right to
kind of demystify, uh, benefit,what things meant in a certain
concept, all those things right,they really help impart that
(21:34):
knowledge on students that theycan then take and, as they're
getting ready to graduate, rightkind of weigh those in.
Or if they're going to aprofessional dinner they feel a
little more comfortable about.
Okay, which fork do I use?
Yes, those little things right.
And I say little now.
But the first time I went to aformal dinner it was actually at
(21:55):
a professional conference.
Once I had graduated, right, tosee all that spread in front of
me, I was a little nervous, youknow.
So.
My supervisor she's been agreat mentor even up until this
day kind of gave me the basicson the fly, but it can be a
little nerve-wracking.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Yeah, yeah.
And anything that we can do togive students an experience
before they go into a situationthat's a little more high
pressure or risks a bad outcomeon the results, I think is
really, really positive.
My students, I think, are luckyin some ways in that
(22:37):
Northeastern has a really robustco-op program and so students
are expected to get some workexperience, and for a lot of
them it does some of the thingsyou talk about in that six-month
span.
They go in and they're like,yes, I love my major and this is
the right one for me becauseI'm where I want to be, but
maybe this is not the kind ofcompany I want to be in or this
(23:00):
is not what I thought it wasgoing to be.
I'm going to pivot now whileI'm still in college and then
try to get another co-opexperience in something else,
and I think for a lot ofstudents they get a little taste
of things in internships.
So it'll be interesting to seeif more colleges offer
experiences like that as part oftheir.
(23:22):
This is part of the collegeexperience, not just an add-on
or an extra to see if that makesa difference, especially for
first-gen students who then getthis professional network while
they're still in college andhopefully some professional
mentors, that may make adifference as to how they go
into their first professionalposition.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Yeah, absolutely.
And with mentoring it's a moreinvolved type of mentoring.
Yes, because you can't havesomebody assigned on paper that
okay, if you have questions, youknow, go to gym here like
that's your mentor uh, versusjim, taking more of an active
role in the mentorship and saylet me show you right, yeah yeah
(24:06):
, time and resources right likethat's.
That's a challenge right, but I.
But I think if we're teachingstudents how to network, how to
look, what to look for in amentor, how to get the most out
of the mentor, you know, it'skind of like the concept of
managing up.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Sometimes that gets introduced where, okay, you know
what you need and yoursupervisor might not be there.
So you kind of have to ask.
And I think for those of us whohave been fortunate enough to
have great supervisors, that'salmost a given right.
You don't have to ask becausethey can anticipate, right.
I think same thing with amentor.
If a student knows how toleverage that connection, then
(24:53):
it can be a wonderful experience.
You know well I don't want togo to gym because they never
return my calls, they neveranswer my emails, they don't
have time.
Then the mentorship experience,you know it, turns out not as
positive.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Yeah, and you know, that makes me think too, that if
we can help our studentsunderstand that asking for help
is a strength in high school orin college and get them looking
for guidance earlier on, then bythe time they get to a
professional position they maybe better able to articulate
(25:32):
what kind of help they need,because they've been asking for
it for a while and feel thatthis isn't a sign of weakness
that I'm asking, it's because Iwant to learn and grow and you
can help me get there.
So I, you know, I I like tothink that that that kind of
experience in seeking outsupport will be very positive
for for students at any levelgoing into their professional
(25:54):
career.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Yeah, I think the more we normalize it, right?
Yes, that's threatening, or youknow, any feelings of
inadequacy?
Because, okay, I shouldn't haveto.
I should know this already,right I?
Speaker 1 (26:07):
shouldn't ask, mm-hmm .
Speaker 2 (26:09):
But you know, like you said right, it's okay to ask
for help to normalize that anduse that as a strength.
So I think there's someprograms out there already are
doing these things with students.
Others can pivot or incorporatesome of these elements and I
think it doesn't have to be acomplete overhaul of what
(26:30):
programs are already doing.
But you can start small.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Yeah, yeah, I totally agree.
So let me ask you this kind ofbased on your literature review,
your own experience, whatyou've learned so far, what
would you recommend for me, fora listener, to do to plant some
seeds that we could do now tohelp our students make a
smoother transition intoprofessional careers?
Speaker 2 (26:55):
I think, is going back to say like the why right,
why you want to go into thatparticular field.
But also try and identifyindividuals.
And that's easier said thandone, because a lot of times
it's kind of like a cold callright, like I don't know anybody
in the field.
So who am I going to talk to,you know, leaning on friends or
connections that they might havethrough, like school clubs.
(27:16):
Yeah, nowadays there seems tobe a club for almost every kind
of interest.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
So kind of leveraging those and I think if we really
think about, like, if studentsreally think about, they know
more people than they realizeand if they don't know somebody,
chances is that they might knowsomebody, like in that club or
in that company or in that field.
But I think it kind of takes usto, or students, to be out of
(27:43):
their comfort zone a little bitright, to get comfortable with
the uncomfortable, to take thatfirst step.
So I think it's it's going backto having that question, you
know, asked of students, youknow for themselves, and also
kind of leading them in thatdirection, right, like, okay,
look at professionalassociations in your field if
(28:04):
there are yes, not then, okay,leverage teachers or other
individuals Going back to careerservices right, like they can
be a great connection todifferent industries to help
find resources in those fields.
right, and to this day for me,like I keep hearing of
professional organizations thatare out there that I've never
(28:24):
heard of.
Right.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Yes, there's.
So.
I mean, there's just so manyniches, right?
If you really think about whatit is you want to do, you can
get into a niche and you canfind other people that are there
and, yes, it is very surprising.
Sometimes I'm like huh.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
So I think some of those basics right to not
completely overhaul an entirecurriculum or plan or anything
is like what elements can I addto it right now?
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
And I think right now for any students that can be
graduating this coming year,there's plenty of time right
right yeah it may not feel likeit to the students, but there is
there's
Speaker 1 (29:03):
time.
So, yeah, I think one of thethings we found too helpful for
our students and that alsosurprised them is that you know
our university has a LinkedInnetwork of university alumni and
that, as a student, you canplug into that.
You can find Northeasternalumni on this LinkedIn site and
(29:25):
connect with them that way andthen you automatically have
something in common, right?
You're both from the sameinstitution and then it can go
from there.
That a lot of them said theyfelt like that was at least an
in.
You know, if they're nervousabout talking to somebody, they
can be like hey, I'm anortheastern student and it's
like okay like I can start withthat yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
But I think even that small intro right.
Yeah, yes, I've had folks whereyou know it's just a connector
on linkedin or something right.
Like you get this request, I'mlike I don't know who this is
right.
Here we might have someindividuals in common, but I
don't know, right.
So I think following that upwith like a connection, a reason
(30:06):
why you're connecting right,just a little subtle intro,
makes a big difference on howthat's perceived.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Oh, absolutely, it sets you apart versus just I
want to connect it's like no,it's a little better if you tell
me a little bit more, butabsolutely so.
Let's say there's somebodywho's listening and they're
thinking, oh, I have some greatinformation that would help in
your dissertation, or this isreally cool, like I'm studying
(30:32):
this too.
How might they get in touchwith you, cesar, to either share
information or to pick yourbrain on something?
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Yeah, so LinkedIn is a great option, right.
So on LinkedIn, if individualswanna email me directly, that's
obviously another option as well, and I can put my email on here
or you can put it on there,but-.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Yeah, I'll put it in the show notes, for sure.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Yeah, so it's cmargarito at Gmail.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Pretty straightforward.
So I think those are the bestways for individuals to reach
out, and I would love to connectwith folks.
Continue this conversation.
Share resources, receiveresources yes, more than
anything as well, to kind ofkeep the dialogue going.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Yeah, yeah, because I think this is a great area of
study and the more we can helpour students get to that next
chapter of that professionalcareer and then find success
there, I think the better off.
You know, I mean it's.
You know this, I'm preaching tothe choir right.
For first-gen students thatprofessional, the milestone of a
(31:35):
college degree is huge.
But then the milestone of aprofessional job you know where
so many of them if they are alsofirst-gen and low-income like
really want to help their familyis just huge.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
You know, being able to help students do that and
help them make that smoothertransition, I think is
Absolutely, and I think I wouldalso not put the entire onus
just on students.
A while back and you may haveheard this phrase before, but I
had heard a colleague expressyou know we spend all this time
making students college ready,but are we having colleges be
(32:11):
student ready?
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Yes, are we having colleges be student ready.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Yes, I think you know same principle applies in in
the workplace.
Right is, yes, students cancome out of university with all
these different tools, right tobe ready for employment.
But what are employers doing tobe ready for employees and
looking at their onboardingprocess and all these different
things that again, hopefully,doesn't lead to more individuals
(32:39):
leaving their workforce?
Speaker 1 (32:41):
you know, in the first couple of years, yeah, and
I wish I could name a few.
But I know that there arecorporations and businesses out
there who have kind of programsfor first-gen students going
into their corporations, goinginto their organizations, to
help them make that transition.
So it'd be interesting to seeif they have any information too
(33:02):
about how that helps and whatkind of programs that they've
put in place too.
So that's probably another areato look at.
But, like your friend said, adone dissertation is the best
dissertation, correct?
Speaker 2 (33:15):
right.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
So shiny object syndrome and like what I want to
study next is probably nothelpful.
But, cesar, I really appreciateyour time.
Thanks for joining me today andif you are looking to reach me,
you can also reach me at Jenthat's J-E-N at firstjenfmcom,
and I'd love for you to rate andreview this podcast and give us
(33:39):
five stars so that other peoplecan join in the conversation
and share the joy that we havein working with celebrating and
supporting first-gen students.
So thanks so much and I will beback next week.
Welcome and welcome back to the First Gen FM podcast
, where we high school andcollege educators strengthen,
celebrate and supportfirst-generation college and
college-bound students.
I'm Jennifer Schoen, your host.
Please call me Jen.
I'd love it if you could leavea review and a rating for this
podcast to help other educatorsfind us.
Thank you so much for takingthe time to do that.
(00:27):
Now let's dive into this week'sepisode.
Today's guest is Cesar Margarito, and Cesar was born in a small
town in Jalisco, mexico, andthen came to the United States
when he was about 10.
He grew up in a smallagricultural town in the Salinas
Valley and his college journeybegan at a local community
(00:48):
college before he transferred toCal Poly where he earned both
his bachelor's and his master'sdegree.
He's currently completing hisdoctorate in education in
organizational change andleadership at the University of
Southern California, and hisdissertation is going to be
focused on the transitionalexperiences of first-generation
(01:08):
professionals, and that's whatwe're going to talk about today
what he's discovered so far inhis dissertation process, how
his dissertation is going, andmore about the journey that
first-generation professionalsexperience.
So let's welcome Cesar to thepodcast, all right?
Well, let's jump right in.
I am here with Cesar Margaritoand we are going to talk about
(01:32):
his dissertation, the literaturereview and everything that's
going into looking into thetransitional experiences of
first-gen students intoprofessional jobs, and I'm
really excited.
Cesar, thank you so much forjoining me today.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Thank you, Jennifer.
Thank you for having me.
I look forward to theconversation, just opening the
dialogue a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Yeah, absolutely, because I know we talked about
this before that it used to beall about access for first-gen
students to college, and then itwas all about college success
for first-gen students, and nowI think the thing that we need
to go next is what's happeningwith them when they get into
that professional job.
So I'm excited to talk with youand hear about that, but of
(02:17):
course, I want to know what wasthe spark that got you
interested in education andespecially working with First
Gen yeah, so it's very much apersonal journey.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
My parents were very adamant about education, which
is the reason why we immigratedfrom Mexico to the US.
They really stress educationand really had a high regard for
educators in general, and I hadthree other siblings and three
out of the four went intoeducation.
(02:51):
Oh, wow Two of them areteachers.
I'm a little on the outside ofteaching but education related
and we have one engineer in thefamily so we don't talk about
him.
No, we're very proud of him, aswell as the other siblings.
But I think that was thecatalyst for me to going into
(03:11):
education.
Initially I wanted to go intoteaching, but then once I really
found out more about all theadditional hard work long nights
, weekends, all those differentthings I don't know if I want to
do that.
I don't want to help students.
So my first role out of collegewas actually as an outreach
(03:33):
advisor with TRIO programs.
So that's kind of what led medown the path of outreach and
student support and all that andall that.
But it came from that right,that love and the idea that you
know, through education we wouldhave a better life than our
parents had, right.
So that's kind of where thespark of education, and
(03:54):
certainly for this population.
You know the fact that I myselfam a first-generation student,
what that means and theconnection that I have with
students and the passion toadvocate for students.
That's kind of where it comesfrom.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Yeah, yeah, and certainly the TRIO program would
be a great start to be able todo that.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
And so then you decided you know what?
I'm going to go back and get mydoctoral degree.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I did.
It took a while.
I sat on that question forquite a while after my master's.
It was probably about 10, 12years between my master's and me
finally deciding to you knowwhat let me apply to a program,
and part of it was I didn't knowwhat I wanted to do.
To do the pros that are outthere I mean, there's so many
(04:46):
now and with programs also goingonline, it kind of gives you
access to other universitiesthat are, you know, outside of
your area, so all thosedifferent things.
So I really kind of grappledwith that question of what I
want to study and where andfinally settled on this idea of
first-generation professionals.
That was kind of the questionand where can I do that?
(05:07):
So I did, I only applied to oneschool and I ended up getting
in.
So in the winter of 2019, Istarted my doctoral program at
USC in the Organizational Changeand Leadership Program.
It's been a wonderfulexperience experience and
(05:27):
actually ran on the cusp offinishing my dissertation
Hopefully by spring is thedeadline because I don't want to
be ABD for the rest of my life.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Yes, no, no.
You definitely don't want that,Definitely don't want that.
So tell me more about what,what you're studying and and
what you've just discovered sofar in in the beginning phases
of your dissertation.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Uh, as you kind of said at theonset of the interview, I'm
looking at the transitionalexperience of first-generation
professionals and that cameabout through my own personal
experience, my observations withcolleagues around me, but also
with our students.
At that time I was doing directsupports through the student
services program also a trioprogram and that's one of the
(06:15):
questions that eventually Istarted looking at is OK, we're
preparing these students tograduate, right, they're going
through the curriculum, they'regetting internships and they're
getting these awesome jobs, butsometimes they don't stay in
them.
They end up pivoting, and notthat they jump from one company
(06:39):
to another, although that's awhole other phenomena.
But leaving this research andlearning about this concept of
professional socialization,which essentially it's just
looking more at a holistic wayof how individuals get
introduced and immersed into aprofession.
(06:59):
So there's differentdefinitions and depending on who
you talk to or what you read,you might see different
definitions.
But essentially professionalsocialization looks at knowledge
and skills, attitudes, valuesall that kind of make up
professional identity in aparticular field.
(07:19):
In my research most of it hascome through the health and
medical field and how structuredit is in that setting.
So I've not come across it asmuch in other settings.
Law there's a little bit of thatlegal field, but more so in the
medical, and I think last timeyou talked about the idea of
like a nursing preceptor interms of mentoring, because
(07:42):
mentoring is a big component ofthis, yes, and it's more guided,
targeted, however you want tolook at it, but definitely more
focused mentoring that helpsindividuals kind of navigate
that hidden curriculum.
You know we talked about lasttime how in academia there's
this idea, this concept of ahidden curriculum that students
(08:02):
need to learn to navigate,especially first-gen students,
and that's kind of where I'mfinding right now, that that
kind of experience kind ofreplicates itself in the
educational I'm sorry, in theprofessional setting, where
students or professionals needto learn right To navigate and
kind of not necessarily startall over but start a new setting
(08:23):
.
And that's a key component tothat is mentoring.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yeah, yeah, you're right.
I mean, it's such a bigtransition.
I remember a student telling methat when she got a job she you
know first-generation studentgraduates goes into her
professional position and shereached out to her mom and said
you know, mom, should I get intothis retirement plan?
You know I can put in money andthey'll match it.
And her mom was like no, don'tdo it, because if you leave
(08:50):
there they get to keep all yourmoney.
And because her mom didn't knowand luckily this student had
other people to reach out toback on campus, the program that
she was part of, to get somemore answers about that but who
do you reach out to if you don'tknow those things, unless you
have that kind of mentoringgoing on or, I would say, like a
(09:13):
very patient HR department thatis willing to kind of walk you
through the hidden curriculum?
Speaker 2 (09:18):
True, absolutely Right.
So I think it takes.
You know, a lot of us learn bydoing and stumble and, you know,
learn from experiences andmistakes, however you want to
phrase them, but that comes at acost.
Like, for example, not notdirectly to first gen, but low
(09:38):
income, and there's kind of acorrelation between first gen
and low income Right, relationbetween first-gen and low-income
right, but over the course of alifetime.
There's a study that I foundthat individuals, professionals
from low-income backgrounds, endup earning considerably less
than non-first-gen ornon-low-income individuals, even
when they have the same majorlike very same background,
(10:00):
similar credentials and, forexample, benefit packages, right
, and looking at those and weighthose in.
So, all those different things,it's a new language I think I
mentioned that the other dayright, that we have to learn the
definitions and how to navigateand be able to kind of weigh
those things, especially, youknow, coming as a brand new
(10:21):
professional right out ofcollege, you know sometimes you
might go by that salary, but ifthere's no benefits or it's a
very weak benefit packages,right, what does that mean in
the long term?
Yeah, not too long actually.
My fiance and I were talkingabout retirement.
We're still a few years fromretirement.
But looking ahead, and she's insocial work and her jobs you
(10:46):
know, unfortunately, have a 401,three B's associated retirement
plan, that she's myself workingthrough a lot of public
institutions here in California.
I actually have a pension planright, the CalPERS pension plan
in California, which nowpensions are very few and far
between right.
There are very few employersthat offer pensions, so you know
(11:09):
what that means.
Right is that you know myretirement is a little bit more
secure than hers.
Obviously, you know marketperformance and all those
different things do come intoeffect, but it's something that
it took me a while to kind ofsink in that.
Okay, I kind of stumbled, youknow, into the right type of
jobs, not knowing again longterm that at least for me it's a
(11:35):
little bit more of a securityblanket when it comes down to
requirement than a traditional403B or 401K.
Those little things, right, Imean I say little now, but
they're important.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Yeah, it's those little things, right.
I mean I say little now, butthey're important, yeah.
And to think that and to bethat forward thinking when
you're going into a new job orwhen you're looking for a job,
and trying to figure all thatout, like what does this mean
and what are the differences?
And you know, sometimes you'reweighing like apples and
chocolate bars, and you know,you just, it's really hard to
compare them without someonethere, even even in the pre-job
(12:09):
stage, right to guide you tothat and then, when you get to
the position you know, makingthat transition in what have you
found about, like, about whysome fields have that formal
mentoring as part of theirsocialization, Do you know?
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Well, I think, for example, in health, you know
they want the individuals to befully immersed, fully prepared
with all different elements, andpart of it is looking at from,
like, an organizationalstandpoint or a cultural
standpoint, right, that theyknow that these are the things
that you need to be successful,that you need to know along the
(12:46):
way to be able to succeed inthis field right.
So I think in some areas itlends itself a little bit better
, easier to kind of structurethose elements along the way,
right.
So with you know, healthdoctors, nurses, you know you
have the practicum and they haveto be in the field, right's, no
(13:07):
choice.
So the way that structure, youalready have that captive
audience there um, to be able toincorporate these, these
components, you know it's, it'sproven to be very useful and
beneficial and in theseindividuals being successfully
transitioned into the field, youknow, after their um, their
clinical rotations are, are, aredone, and so, again, I'm still
(13:32):
early on in this, but those arekind of some of the early
findings.
Yeah, but being able to kind oftake away and and uh, think
about, like, what that couldmean for other fields and, as I
mentioned before, kind of beingable to expand the conversation
to see how that can trickle downinto the college setting, into
the high school setting and whatthat could look like.
(13:54):
It helps set up all studentsfor success.
We were talking to was thatabout 30 to 40 percent of
individuals within the firstthree to five years end up
leaving their field.
Wow, that's been kind ofsomewhat a recent study.
(14:17):
So then that begs the questionof why.
Right, and I think, anecdotally,I'm sure you know of
individuals they may havepivoted elsewhere.
I have family, I have closefriends who have done that.
Actually, my best friendgraduated as an electrical
engineer, worked for a few yearsin the industry, didn't like it
(14:38):
and kind of pivoted.
He wasn't sure, kind ofreflected for a while and now
he's a winemaker, pivoted intothe wine industry and kind of
worked his way up.
And now he's a winemaker.
Givet into the wine industryand kind of worked his way up
and now he's a winemaker.
I'm sure there's still certainelements of engineering that he
uses in his day to day, butthat's not what he studied.
(14:59):
And all those late nights andthe stress of exams and finals,
all the different things, notthat they work for nothing, but
again, Right, that's a prettymajor pivot.
Absolutely, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Yeah, so is your hope that some of the things that
you discover will be able to beincorporated into I think you
said high schools and colleges,as a kind of bridge for students
to start thinking about theculture that they want to go
into.
You know, beyond the details ofthe benefits, but what does the
(15:33):
culture look like?
How does that?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
affect it.
I think the big aspiration ofmy research right is that it can
contribute to expanding theconversation and having both
educators and students rightkind of ask more or ask other
questions, right.
And I think one of the thingsin preparation for this that I
was looking at was I think it'sthe why, yes, right.
(16:00):
And I thought about differentstudents when I was working with
college students directly whocame in as freshmen excited
about whatever field, and thenafter the first quarter they
were struggling, right, it's notwhat they they thought and the
main reason why they did it wasbecause they were told that they
were good at x, right.
(16:22):
So an example would beengineering.
You're good at math and science.
You should be an engineer greatyou know you get paid well and
you know those different things.
But if it's not what theythought it was right, why are
they going into engineering,engineering, education, whatever
(16:51):
field, to kind of dig in deep alittle bit more and trying to
find out what that means and besuccessful in that area?
So that's kind of what I'mhoping is that I'm able to help
expand that conversation forindividuals to kind of think a
little bit more deeply andbroadly which kind of sounds
like an oxymoron, but really tokind of which kind of sounds
like an oxymoron, but really tokind of think of other things,
for example organizationalculture, and that can vary,
(17:14):
obviously, between organizationswithin the same field.
But just having that as anadditional dimension to consider
and talking to as many peopleas possible.
And I think this idea ofnetworking, we put it out there,
but especially with first-genstudents, do we really tell them
(17:34):
what it is to be a successfullike, to successfully network?
What does that mean?
Right, it's like okay, well,career day is here in the fall,
Go out there and talk to someemployers.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Hand out your resume a million times and say hi,
exactly right, like yeah there,and talk to some employers,
that's it.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Hand out your resume a million times and say right,
like, yeah, you're going to benetworking, okay, that's one way
to network.
Yeah, but again, having thoseconversations and kind of
expanding our own definitions orpreconceived notions of what
certain things mean in thisfield, to be able to get the
most out of it and the mostinformation, and really going
back to the why andunderstanding that this field,
to be able to get the most outof it and the most information,
(18:09):
and really going back to the whyand understanding that I want
to be X because of this and thisis what I want to do, and
talking to different peoplebeforehand and all those
different things.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
So yeah, I'm always encouraging students to go talk
to we call it career design atNortheastern.
But you know career development, career services early to get a
sense of what's out there,especially for students who may
not necessarily have a linearpath.
You study nursing, you're goingto go into nursing.
(18:41):
You study engineering, you'regoing to be an engineer, but
history, english, psychology,plenty more.
But there's so many optionsonce you leave about what you're
going to do.
Career services can start toask students those questions and
give them, I think, some thingsto think about when they're
trying to make those major andcareer decisions.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Yeah, absolutely, I think to that point.
I think with certain positionsas educators, it's a little bit
easier for us to be able toconnect to those resources.
Right, and in some cases Ithink that's one of the things
that, for me, I saw as a hugebenefit is that I had the luxury
of time, because the studentsthat I was working with in our
(19:28):
programs the number was a lotsmaller compared to like a
college advisor, right, thatmight have a thousand, 1200,
1500 people on their caseload,right, they're never going to
see every single student and ifthey do, it's what do you need
is very prescriptive approach.
What do you need?
You need a signature.
Go here, versus with otherpositions, you have a little bit
(19:49):
more time to actually sit down,have a conversation, but also
have a conversation with otherdepartments on campus and bring
the resources to the students.
That's the other thing, right,you tell a student go here, go
see so-and-so, or go to thisdepartment and they might not go
Right.
Right, but if you have a contact, contact is go here.
(20:11):
Go see Jennifer.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Okay, that might be more likely, right.
What I found is that if Ibrought Jennifer to the students
, then that's a little bit,that's a whole other difference,
right.
So it took me a while to kindof build my own network as well
on campus.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Oh, absolutely, especially if it's a big campus.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yeah, absolutely, and have those individuals you know
come to us.
You know so.
For example, you mentionedcareer services.
We had a pretty neat workshopon professional etiquette and
that was very, very broad, butit gave the basics.
You know something as simple asyou know how to for for
individuals wearing a suit, howto wear a suit, the how to do a
(20:52):
tie, the whole button rule,right like that to me.
Yeah, actually I was.
I spent some time with mynieces and nephews this last
weekend and we went to a familywedding and my nephew's wearing
suits and all the buttons werewere done like well, you know,
and we talked a little bit aboutthat like hey did you know that
there's this rule.
I don't know who made up therule, but no, you don't do all
(21:13):
the buttons, but why?
I, I don't know, but that's therule.
Um, but little things like thatright, going back to the hidden
curriculum, career services, orwhen we brought in hr, right to
kind of demystify, uh, benefit,what things meant in a certain
concept, all those things right,they really help impart that
(21:34):
knowledge on students that theycan then take and, as they're
getting ready to graduate, rightkind of weigh those in.
Or if they're going to aprofessional dinner they feel a
little more comfortable about.
Okay, which fork do I use?
Yes, those little things right.
And I say little now.
But the first time I went to aformal dinner it was actually at
(21:55):
a professional conference.
Once I had graduated, right, tosee all that spread in front of
me, I was a little nervous, youknow.
So.
My supervisor she's been agreat mentor even up until this
day kind of gave me the basicson the fly, but it can be a
little nerve-wracking.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Yeah, yeah.
And anything that we can do togive students an experience
before they go into a situationthat's a little more high
pressure or risks a bad outcomeon the results, I think is
really, really positive.
My students, I think, are luckyin some ways in that
(22:37):
Northeastern has a really robustco-op program and so students
are expected to get some workexperience, and for a lot of
them it does some of the thingsyou talk about in that six-month
span.
They go in and they're like,yes, I love my major and this is
the right one for me becauseI'm where I want to be, but
maybe this is not the kind ofcompany I want to be in or this
(23:00):
is not what I thought it wasgoing to be.
I'm going to pivot now whileI'm still in college and then
try to get another co-opexperience in something else,
and I think for a lot ofstudents they get a little taste
of things in internships.
So it'll be interesting to seeif more colleges offer
experiences like that as part oftheir.
(23:22):
This is part of the collegeexperience, not just an add-on
or an extra to see if that makesa difference, especially for
first-gen students who then getthis professional network while
they're still in college andhopefully some professional
mentors, that may make adifference as to how they go
into their first professionalposition.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Yeah, absolutely.
And with mentoring it's a moreinvolved type of mentoring.
Yes, because you can't havesomebody assigned on paper that
okay, if you have questions, youknow, go to gym here like
that's your mentor uh, versusjim, taking more of an active
role in the mentorship and saylet me show you right, yeah yeah
(24:06):
, time and resources right likethat's.
That's a challenge right, but I.
But I think if we're teachingstudents how to network, how to
look, what to look for in amentor, how to get the most out
of the mentor, you know, it'skind of like the concept of
managing up.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Sometimes that gets introduced where, okay, you know
what you need and yoursupervisor might not be there.
So you kind of have to ask.
And I think for those of us whohave been fortunate enough to
have great supervisors, that'salmost a given right.
You don't have to ask becausethey can anticipate, right.
I think same thing with amentor.
If a student knows how toleverage that connection, then
(24:53):
it can be a wonderful experience.
You know well I don't want togo to gym because they never
return my calls, they neveranswer my emails, they don't
have time.
Then the mentorship experience,you know it, turns out not as
positive.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Yeah, and you know, that makes me think too, that if
we can help our studentsunderstand that asking for help
is a strength in high school orin college and get them looking
for guidance earlier on, then bythe time they get to a
professional position they maybe better able to articulate
(25:32):
what kind of help they need,because they've been asking for
it for a while and feel thatthis isn't a sign of weakness
that I'm asking, it's because Iwant to learn and grow and you
can help me get there.
So I, you know, I I like tothink that that that kind of
experience in seeking outsupport will be very positive
for for students at any levelgoing into their professional
(25:54):
career.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Yeah, I think the more we normalize it, right?
Yes, that's threatening, or youknow, any feelings of
inadequacy?
Because, okay, I shouldn't haveto.
I should know this already,right I?
Speaker 1 (26:07):
shouldn't ask, mm-hmm .
Speaker 2 (26:09):
But you know, like you said right, it's okay to ask
for help to normalize that anduse that as a strength.
So I think there's someprograms out there already are
doing these things with students.
Others can pivot or incorporatesome of these elements and I
think it doesn't have to be acomplete overhaul of what
(26:30):
programs are already doing.
But you can start small.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Yeah, yeah, I totally agree.
So let me ask you this kind ofbased on your literature review,
your own experience, whatyou've learned so far, what
would you recommend for me, fora listener, to do to plant some
seeds that we could do now tohelp our students make a
smoother transition intoprofessional careers?
Speaker 2 (26:55):
I think, is going back to say like the why right,
why you want to go into thatparticular field.
But also try and identifyindividuals.
And that's easier said thandone, because a lot of times
it's kind of like a cold callright, like I don't know anybody
in the field.
So who am I going to talk to,you know, leaning on friends or
connections that they might havethrough, like school clubs.
(27:16):
Yeah, nowadays there seems tobe a club for almost every kind
of interest.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
So kind of leveraging those and I think if we really
think about, like, if studentsreally think about, they know
more people than they realizeand if they don't know somebody,
chances is that they might knowsomebody, like in that club or
in that company or in that field.
But I think it kind of takes usto, or students, to be out of
(27:43):
their comfort zone a little bitright, to get comfortable with
the uncomfortable, to take thatfirst step.
So I think it's it's going backto having that question, you
know, asked of students, youknow for themselves, and also
kind of leading them in thatdirection, right, like, okay,
look at professionalassociations in your field if
(28:04):
there are yes, not then, okay,leverage teachers or other
individuals Going back to careerservices right, like they can
be a great connection todifferent industries to help
find resources in those fields.
right, and to this day for me,like I keep hearing of
professional organizations thatare out there that I've never
(28:24):
heard of.
Right.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Yes, there's.
So.
I mean, there's just so manyniches, right?
If you really think about whatit is you want to do, you can
get into a niche and you canfind other people that are there
and, yes, it is very surprising.
Sometimes I'm like huh.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
So I think some of those basics right to not
completely overhaul an entirecurriculum or plan or anything
is like what elements can I addto it right now?
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
And I think right now for any students that can be
graduating this coming year,there's plenty of time right
right yeah it may not feel likeit to the students, but there is
there's
Speaker 1 (29:03):
time.
So, yeah, I think one of thethings we found too helpful for
our students and that alsosurprised them is that you know
our university has a LinkedInnetwork of university alumni and
that, as a student, you canplug into that.
You can find Northeasternalumni on this LinkedIn site and
(29:25):
connect with them that way andthen you automatically have
something in common, right?
You're both from the sameinstitution and then it can go
from there.
That a lot of them said theyfelt like that was at least an
in.
You know, if they're nervousabout talking to somebody, they
can be like hey, I'm anortheastern student and it's
like okay like I can start withthat yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
But I think even that small intro right.
Yeah, yes, I've had folks whereyou know it's just a connector
on linkedin or something right.
Like you get this request, I'mlike I don't know who this is
right.
Here we might have someindividuals in common, but I
don't know, right.
So I think following that upwith like a connection, a reason
(30:06):
why you're connecting right,just a little subtle intro,
makes a big difference on howthat's perceived.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Oh, absolutely, it sets you apart versus just I
want to connect it's like no,it's a little better if you tell
me a little bit more, butabsolutely so.
Let's say there's somebodywho's listening and they're
thinking, oh, I have some greatinformation that would help in
your dissertation, or this isreally cool, like I'm studying
(30:32):
this too.
How might they get in touchwith you, cesar, to either share
information or to pick yourbrain on something?
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Yeah, so LinkedIn is a great option, right.
So on LinkedIn, if individualswanna email me directly, that's
obviously another option as well, and I can put my email on here
or you can put it on there,but-.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Yeah, I'll put it in the show notes, for sure.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Yeah, so it's cmargarito at Gmail.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Pretty straightforward.
So I think those are the bestways for individuals to reach
out, and I would love to connectwith folks.
Continue this conversation.
Share resources, receiveresources yes, more than
anything as well, to kind ofkeep the dialogue going.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Yeah, yeah, because I think this is a great area of
study and the more we can helpour students get to that next
chapter of that professionalcareer and then find success
there, I think the better off.
You know, I mean it's.
You know this, I'm preaching tothe choir right.
For first-gen students thatprofessional, the milestone of a
(31:35):
college degree is huge.
But then the milestone of aprofessional job you know where
so many of them if they are alsofirst-gen and low-income like
really want to help their familyis just huge.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
You know, being able to help students do that and
help them make that smoothertransition, I think is
Absolutely, and I think I wouldalso not put the entire onus
just on students.
A while back and you may haveheard this phrase before, but I
had heard a colleague expressyou know we spend all this time
making students college ready,but are we having colleges be
(32:11):
student ready?
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Yes, are we having colleges be student ready.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Yes, I think you know same principle applies in in
the workplace.
Right is, yes, students cancome out of university with all
these different tools, right tobe ready for employment.
But what are employers doing tobe ready for employees and
looking at their onboardingprocess and all these different
things that again, hopefully,doesn't lead to more individuals
(32:39):
leaving their workforce?
Speaker 1 (32:41):
you know, in the first couple of years, yeah, and
I wish I could name a few.
But I know that there arecorporations and businesses out
there who have kind of programsfor first-gen students going
into their corporations, goinginto their organizations, to
help them make that transition.
So it'd be interesting to seeif they have any information too
(33:02):
about how that helps and whatkind of programs that they've
put in place too.
So that's probably another areato look at.
But, like your friend said, adone dissertation is the best
dissertation, correct?
Speaker 2 (33:15):
right.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
So shiny object syndrome and like what I want to
study next is probably nothelpful.
But, cesar, I really appreciateyour time.
Thanks for joining me today andif you are looking to reach me,
you can also reach me at Jenthat's J-E-N at firstjenfmcom,
and I'd love for you to rate andreview this podcast and give us
(33:39):
five stars so that other peoplecan join in the conversation
and share the joy that we havein working with celebrating and
supporting first-gen students.
So thanks so much and I will beback next week.
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