February 17, 2025 • 37 mins
This episode provides a detailed exploration of personalizing training and nutrition for individuals like Gloria , who is preparing for a half marathon while managing post-surgical recovery. We discuss the importance of addressing fitness goals, creating balanced workout routines, and maintaining an appropriate nutritional plan for optimal performance.
• Analyzing the fitness avatar of Gloria, who is a coach herself
• Discussing the balance between performance and aesthetic goals
• Exploring the intricacies of her strength training and running regimen
• Providing nutritional guidance focusing on maintaining muscle while training
• Highlighting the critical role of recovery and proper sleep quality
• Emphasizing the importance of individualized coaching and communication in fitness
Send us a voice note, check out show notes and more at our site: https://www.fitnessfiasco.com/
Host Mike - https://www.instagram.com/mikeosunafitness/
Host Erik - https://www.instagram.com/erikbustillo/
Host Rob - https://twitter.com/RobStrength
The Fitness Fiasco Podcast provides general information on health, wellness, and fitness and should not be regarded as professional medical advice, treatment, or diagnosis. No doctor/patient relationship is established through this podcast. Listeners are responsible for their use of any information or resources shared in this podcast or associated materials. This podcast's content should not supplant consultations with qualified health care professionals concerning any existing medical conditions. It is crucial for listeners to avoid disregarding or delaying professional medical advice based on the information provided in the podcast. Remember to consult your health care provider for personalized guidance on your health and wellness journey.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Are we a go, Rob we're a go.
We're a go, we're back.
We're back for season.
We don't even know what theseason is, are there?
Speaker 2 (00:09):
seasons Never ending.
Season one Never ending, allright.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
We'll just keep going , all right.
So, rob, if you want to explainreal quick what we did on my
social media and what we'reabout to pull up, yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
So Mike posted on his social media earlier in the
week asking for Avatar,essentially, and what we're
going to do is we are going toprovide our own advice, based on
our specialties, for anindividual, a real person, who
submitted who they are, whatthey're you know, how tall they
are, how much they weigh andwhat their goals are, what their
current exercise activity lookslike, what their current
nutrition is and what their reallife looks like, and we're
going to provide our our advice,as if they were our client, on
(00:50):
what we would do to help themreach their goals.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Yeah, that's.
That's exactly what it is, rob.
So I did get permission fromsome of these people that chimed
in on my Instagram to say theirname and give them a shout out.
So the first one that I'm goingto give a shout out, it's
actually one of my old employees, one of my old coaches.
Her name is Gloria Rodriguez.
Her Instagram is let me lookthat up real quick because I do
(01:17):
want to give her a shout out andI appreciate her actually
chiming into which she's aformer coach and she's still
reaching out for help.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
That says a lot, because I know a lot of people
are afraid of, or maybe notafraid, but are a little
embarrassed about, reaching outfor help when it comes to your
health and or diet.
And don't be afraid, we've seen.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
We've seen a lot worse than whatever you're
presenting us with you know, Ialso think that it it's also a
different approach, right.
So I I get I'm sure you guysget spammed all the time um,
either for business coaching orphysique coaching or performance
coaching, and a lot of timesthey have free guides, right.
So I signed up.
I mean, lane Norton does allthe time.
There's a couple other guysthat I follow that you know are
(01:55):
really experts in the field thatI signed up just because I want
to see their approach.
Like, what are they doing oneither the business side and or
the coaching side, or shit?
Should I come out with a freeebook or whatnot?
So I sign up for them a lot too.
So I kind of think it's funnyon their end when they see, like
, all right, this is a coach's acoach also as well.
So I think gloria is kind ofdoing the same thing.
You're like, all right, whatapproach would you guys take to
(02:16):
this?
And obviously she knows all ofus, and so I think she highly
respects our opinion, you know.
So, all right.
So it's, her name is GloriaRodriguez and her Instagram is
glowglorodriguez with a Z R O DRI G Z.
So uh, gloria, I appreciate youreaching out to us and give us
this information.
So, female, fit, five foot five,138 to 140 pounds is what she
(02:37):
weighs.
She's 30 years old, uh, she's awellness coach, uh, and she
goes for walks five to seventimes per week.
She exercises six times a weekand she runs.
I'm sorry.
She does six training sessions.
Three of those are endurancerunning specifically, and three
are strength training.
(02:58):
Now I didn't really pick aparther training, like I didn't ask
her to be specific on what typeof training that she's doing.
So we're going to have to kindof guess some of these things.
I know I would follow herpretty well on social media, so
I kind of see some of the thingsthat she's doing.
I could chime in on that, but Ithink that's important,
especially when we do ourassessment forums.
I ask, obviously how many timesa week do you train?
(03:20):
And then let's get down to thespecifics of this training Are
you lifting weights?
If you are lifting weights, isit CrossFit, is it hypertrophy?
Is it powerlifting?
And then we discussed cardio.
So I really try to get as muchin-depth details as possible as
a person's current trainingprogram.
I did not do that with Gloriaor any of the avatars, but then
(03:42):
I asked her what is her goal?
And she wrote performance wise,she wants to run a half
marathon.
She's post knee surgery.
I don't know how long.
I'm going to guess about sixmonths, cause I know her.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
If she's cleared to exercise, that's good enough
from our approach.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Okay.
And physique she wouldn't mindtoning up a bit, losing up a
little bit body fat, uh, butconcerned with it, um, it's not
her primary goal.
So it seems like her primarygoal is performance.
At walking around at 138 140pounds, she has a good physique.
Um, aesthetically pleasing,food wise, she's currently
(04:21):
maintaining, uh, which is 2,000to 2,200 calories per day.
And that's all the info I got,and we could just add some fill
in the blanks for some of thestuff that we were trying to do
first.
So how do you guys want to typethis?
Do you guys want to type theperformance side first?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
I think, yeah, I think the first thing we got to
do is kind of dissect andprioritize her goals and and go
from there Right.
So basically, what we did hereis is we're we're doing a needs
analysis, um which we'refiguring out what her needs are,
and then we're going to analyzewhat she needs to to accomplish
those goals.
And she has her goals, and thenwe might need to reprioritize
(04:59):
some of them, but in her case,she's generally healthy.
I don't think we need to saylike, hey, you shouldn't be
worried so much about big bicepsright now.
We got to focus on losingweight.
It's like no, she's, she'shealthy.
What are her goals?
Maybe the only thing that wewould need to prioritize is is
minimizing overtraining.
You know, my guess is she'sprobably, you know, she might
push the border of what is tooactive, but I'm going to I'm not
(05:20):
going to factor that in herebecause she's not she's working
out six times a week.
She's not working out six timesa week and running.
So I think she, I think she'smonitoring that well.
So her, the number one goal Iheard was run a half marathon
and kind of, while running,while training for that half
marathon, maintain what she has,if not muscle mass yeah correct
, correct.
(05:40):
So if she's running three timesa week and doing three strength
training exercises I'm going tostart to, you know I would then
my first thing would be do youneed a running program?
You know, are you just gettingout there and doing mileage or
do you need a program targetedfor a half marathon?
Right, which is, you know thatwould be.
That would be step one, andthen step two would be to look
(06:02):
at the strength training andmake sure it factors it.
It factors in for for herrunning, you know, for her goal
of of running the half marathon,which generally, at age 30,
with miles on the body, as we,as we get up here, especially as
a coach, it needs to complimentmarathon training and that's
going to be a lot less lowerbody than you think.
Um, it's not like you're notgoing to go for a 10 mile run on
(06:23):
Monday and then do a whole lotof lunges and Bulgarian squats
on Tuesday.
All right, so our, yourmarathon training generally.
I'm going to start to.
I would probably start her on avery, um, my, my initial, my
initial programming would startto look on making sure she's
able to have eccentric control.
Uh, specifically working instuff like, like depth, drop
(06:44):
lands.
But I'm not talking 24 inches,we're saying three inches, six
inches.
Step off a three inch step andland.
I'm looking at the knees, I'mlooking at the ankles.
Um, while we're doing that ifI'm able to see her in person,
oftentimes with high volumerunning we're going to start to
look at issues with um, calfrange of motion, ankle range of
motion, and there's always thepotential there for Achilles
strains and tears, which we'reseeing a whole lot of, you know,
(07:05):
in sports these days, and a lotof that comes down to just
limited ankle dorsiflexion rangeof motion.
So I try to get an assessmenton that, while working on just
our eccentric control, and startto work on the capacity to do
ballistics and plyometrics,which might seem pretty advanced
, but ballistics and plyometricsare going to be the best
compliment for someone who'sexperienced for working on, for
(07:27):
getting them ready for a halfmarathon, and that will also be.
You know you can work that intoher approach on.
On recovery from the kneesurgery.
We started looking at eccentriccontrol of the knee stuff.
You know, bulgarian squatswould be a good exercise here.
But again, trying to avoid highvolume on the legs.
You need to modulate that.
But you can do stuff likesingle leg drops with a
(07:48):
Bulgarian squat.
So you're in a Bulgarian squatat the top and then instead of
just descending into your squat,you actually kind of do like a
little, like a little hop andthen land in in the bottom.
Um, and those are all verychallenging exercises.
You know those aren't foreveryone, but then you know I
think what can she do?
Where am I starting with her?
And I take it back to are wejust doing stuff like supported
pogo hops, low box, jump,repeats, big fan of so, just
(08:12):
like a three, like a 45 poundplate, and you're just hopping
back and forth, back and forth,on and off 20 reps, 20 seconds
on, 10 seconds off, type deal,getting those reps and making
sure you're working on, you know, stable middle, which is so
important for running, but justthat elasticity through the
calves, achilles, hamstrings.
So that's one thing in thiscase I would start is kind of
one of my longer progressionsfor ballistic, plyometric,
(08:34):
eccentric control, becausethat's a great way to maintain
lower body strength and musclemass and compliment with
endurance, endurance performance, because they're getting the
muscle volume we need, thenervous system volume.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Would you do these on her strength training days?
So she wrote she does three andthree.
So I'm assuming she does threestrength training days, three,
uh, running days.
So you would do these on herstrength training days and this
is how you would start off theworkout.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
You start off with some plyo, some ballistics yeah,
yeah, my typical workoutstructure is is going to be a
five minute warm-, five to tenminute warm up where we're
looking at general dynamicmovements, reverse lunges,
lateral lunges, good mornings,right.
After those five to ten minutes, then we do the gentle, the
gentle knurls, which are goingto be your plyometrics, your
ballistics.
And again, it depends on youknow, you say ballistics or
plyometrics and you either thinkof what Instagram people do or
(09:18):
you know all these wrongexercises, or just super
advanced plyometrics wherepeople are jumping off four foot
, you know four foot boxes andlanding.
It doesn't have to be that much, right, just if you just jump.
Jumping jacks are ballistic orplyometric, right for, for
example, um, you know, and?
And so after that 10 minutewarm-up, five to ten minutes of
these neurals and then we wouldstart to work into the, the
(09:40):
lifts.
So that's where, whatever youknow, again, for her, because
she's getting so much leg volume, it would be more bias, more
towards upper body.
Granted, every workout would betotal body.
So I'd say, like there's atotal body pull emphasis, total
body, push emphasis stays.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Got it.
So then, on her running days.
So now she attacks her runningdays.
Would you do some sort oflinear periodization with that
Working days?
So now she attacks her runningdays, would you do some sort of
linear periodization with that,um, working her up to a half
marathon, looking for her peak,and then maybe, like a taper
week, walking into that?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
yeah, yeah.
So for for running for a halfmarathon, that does depend on,
like the depending on on whather her goals are.
Um, like, is she just trying toaccomplish a half marathon in
which, in which case, then,we're just trying to get up, get
up the volume, uh, which a bigfan, a big fan of of like the
walk, run type stuff.
Um, I know footworks does agood job with with getting
people ready for their firsthalf marathon, where they you
know they're, they run two miles, then walk a mile or something
(10:30):
like, and you just build, buildthat up.
That's a great way of ofbuilding up volume.
If you've not run before, um,I'm not a big fan of of running
too much further than a mileanyway, myself.
So you know it's, uh, do it, doas I say, not as I do, in in in
in this case.
Uh, but if she is moreexperienced with running, then
we're going to start to look athow far out is this half
marathon build.
(10:50):
You know the there I would.
I would love to say that youdon't need mileage to be good at
endurance performance, but allthe research suggests that you
do need mileage on the road tobe good at endurance performance
.
However, it's much slower thanmost people do.
Um, you know it's, it's almostthe speed as if you were
training for a hundred miles isgoing to be your, your LSD runs,
your long, slow distancetraining runs.
(11:10):
And then I just was talking withJose Otero the other day.
He's a Uber distance runner,great distance runner, that's
been involved with our CrossFitgyms for many years.
Um, your CrossFit gyms that Iworked at.
Um, but, uh, um, and Jose washas moved away from some of the
half marathon marathon trainingand got into some really long
training and he's like Rob, it's.
It's amazing, when I slowed itdown, how much more recovered I
(11:33):
am, how much easier my, mytraining feels.
And it's just, you take it anotch below your marathon pace
to this LSD pace, which is, youknow for, is going to really
help with fat metabolism as well.
That's one of the trainingbenefits of it.
So you're going to get yourmiles that way, you're, you're
going to get your mileage thatway.
In the beginning you'llprobably just do two or three of
those really slower, longerones a week and then you can
(11:55):
start to work in your intervalsuh, short intervals, long
intervals, tempo training uh,tempo training would be like at
race pace, or even faster, milerepeats.
800 meter repeats would be my,you know.
800 to mile repeats would bethe longer intervals.
200 to 400 repeats would be theshorter intervals um 800s are
gross.
Yes, they are.
Yeah, they put you at a weirdpace.
(12:17):
Your, your 800 is your fran.
Time is as always.
That's why fran sucks so muchand that's why the 800 sucks so
much, because you really justpush that, that anaerobic
glycolytic capacity of you,completely, but the yeah like,
and then you just kind ofmodulate the training volume.
So there's, there's a conceptwhere it's called a training
(12:38):
impulse score and every type ofevery mile that you run, or
every interval that you run, hasa has a number associated based
on the difficulty, and that'show you track your training
tonnage with, with running, andit's called a trim score.
All right, so a long slowdistance, one mile equals one,
whereas for tempo training, um,you know, tempo training, that
is where you're doing, let's say, a hundred or two or three
(13:01):
miles, recover two or threemiles, but you're doing it at or
below your, your race pace.
So it's a, it's a much fasterpace.
That would be like a trainingimpulse score of a three.
So 10 miles of long slowdistance, you accumulated 10
points, whereas, uh, nine milesof tempo training on a hard
workout later in the week, let'ssay, that's a lot of miles, but
either way, that would be, thatwould be 27 impulse points.
(13:22):
So the impact on recovery ismuch greater from that and
that's how you would make surethat you are progressing and do
have those deload weeks built inRight.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
So if you so, if you earn a certain amount of points,
you're going to get weeks builtin right.
So, if you so, if you earn acertain amount of points, you're
going to get um the opportunity, once you hit that threshold,
to take a deload week orrecovery time.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Yeah, yeah, I use the words points there, but it's
not so much accumulating pointsas much as it is for the coach
to modulate volume, it's justmaking sure that you're
progressing at a safe, at a saferate, adding a few extra
training impulse points per perweek and taking, taking it off
when necessary and when you sayyou spoke about run, walk uh
protocol along with the intervaltraining, what's the recovery
(13:58):
time?
Speaker 1 (13:58):
let's say on that uh that 800, right?
So if they run an 800, how muchrecovery time would you give
before the next 800 uh?
Speaker 2 (14:05):
one to one is going to be where one to one and one
to two is going to be the mostcommon work to recovery ratios.
They're're, um, reallydependent on on on what you're
looking at.
Um, you know, you could, youcould cut it short a little bit,
you can go a little bit longer.
It depends on what they'restrong, what they're they're
stronger at.
Uh.
So if someone is betteraerobically, like if someone
runs a lot of marathons andthey're now they want to improve
(14:27):
their, their half marathon oreven their 5k, 10k times, so
they need more experience inthat anaerobic threshold, then
you're going to want to um, thenyou're going to want to, to
increase that rest, to push thepace during the run right,
whereas someone's the opposite.
If someone's much better, likemyself I'm much better at 400 or
800.
And I want to run a half halfmarathon I need to work more in
(14:48):
that one-to-one realm than theone-to-three realm to work on
what I'm bad at To get you backon the track, to work on that
endurance side of it.
Correct.
Correct, because a one-to-onework-rest ratio is pretty
typical for aerobic one-to-one,one-to-two.
Now, if we're talking speedworks, going strength and
conditioning style, like you'redoing 40s, a work-rest ratio
there would be like one-to-20.
So, if you're doing a foursecond, let's say you're doing a
(15:10):
flying 40 or a flying 30, forexample, it takes four seconds,
right?
What's 20 times four seconds?
You're looking at an 80 secondminute, 20 recovery, and that's
why you see these people doflying forties every 30 seconds.
You're not working speed,you're just doing aerobic
conditioning.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Yeah, it's.
Um.
I'm sure you've run hundredsbefore on a football field and
then old school was just okay,walk around the football field
and make it back, and sometimesif you're pacing too hard, by
the time you make it back you'rejust not ready to go for the
next one.
It's just not enough time,correct?
It's an incredibly slow walk.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
And what speed is football at?
It's at full speed.
It's not at that jog speed.
And then shout out to CoachSwayze who got the head football
strength and conditioning jobat Colorado yeah, with Coach
Prime right now.
So he was a big pioneer in myearly, early days as a graduate
assistant on seeing speedtraining in person.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
That's very cool, as much as I try not to be a
Colorado fan.
Then they bring in Sapp, andthen they bring in Swayze.
I'm like God.
These guys are just making mewant to like them.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Yeah, so all right.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
So let's just kind of catch up where we're at now.
So she's training three times aweek.
She started off with someballistic plyo in the beginning
that she's going into hercompound lifts, mostly focusing
on upper body, ish, right, sothree times a week to the body.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Yeah, I wouldn't Emphasis.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Yeah, there's it'll bias towards the upper body just
because, again, the lower bodyis getting that.
That poundage on the road Gotit.
You'd be surprised how you knowhow much you know.
If you go for a long run andyou get in the next day and into
the gym the next day and try tosquat, your legs and knees are
just not feeling it.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Yeah, so she's also doing some uh track work or, you
know, road work, three times aweek with a protocol that we
kind of just went over there.
She's probably still going tomaintain muscle mass.
If not, she's probably going toshed some body fat.
So let's talk a little bitabout uh.
Just because her trainingvolume is so high, let's talk a
(17:01):
little bit about her food.
One thing I do want to throw inbefore we get to eric really,
quick is for for pacing wise.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
So to understand what your pacing is, um, I would do
all of that and that is bestdone if I have a good 5k time
for you.
So if you know your 5k time, Ican estimate VO two, max VO two
max pace.
A half marathon pace, marathonpace, 5k pace, 10k pace, and I'd
get your fast intervals, shortintervals.
So if you do want, likeendurance, specific training, if
(17:28):
you have a 5k time that makesyou know, I have equations that
would then make our job veryeasy of figuring out what pace
you need to go at, whetheryou're going at a miles per hour
or a heart rate or yeah, andit's.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
It's important.
Your initial question is is shejust trying to complete a half
marathon, like a Disney halfmarathon, or is she like going
for the gold type of thing,right?
So that's a good question toask.
We would typically ask on ourintake forms, what, through
Instagram didn't get that indepth, right?
Yeah, so we're just guessinghere.
So, eric, five, five, 30 yearsold, 140 ish pounds, 40 pounds,
(18:04):
and she's eating about 2200calories.
She said I'm eating atmaintenance and I'm going to
guess she's deducing that she'son maintenance because she's not
gaining or really losing anyweight.
So you know, theoreticallyshe's pretty much on point,
which I think is good at her.
What would you do?
Is there anything you would addor change her macros in any way
(18:24):
?
I guess she didn't get specificon that but let's assume that
she's a newcomer and doesn'teven know how many calories or
macros that she's in For sure.
Yeah, she's a newcomer anddoesn't even know how many
calories or macros that she's inFor sure.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Yeah, I mean, the first thing that I would do is,
when I look at those numbersfemale 355, 139 pounds I'm going
to calculate the BMR just tosee where it's at.
And that puts her at around1350 of the basal metabolic rate
(18:53):
, which we did an episode onthat.
So, go listen to it and thenI'll factor in all right, based
on her training, like there'sgoing to be this activity factor
which, in her case, somethinglike multiplying that BMR by
like a 1.5 or 1.6 or somethingalong those lines, and that puts
(19:22):
her right around that like2000-ish calories, 2000, maybe
2200.
And who knows, maybe she didexactly that and that's where
she got maintenance from.
I don't know if she's trackingher weight and all of that, and
I came up with that number justlike.
For me it was just kind of likea generic estimation, since we
don't have more information onexactly what her workouts look
like.
Three days of strength, threedays of running, for all I know
(19:47):
she's running one mile.
Running one mile is not goingto make a huge difference on
somebody's nutrition, you knowso, and not knowing wherever her
macros are at.
But I do know that she saysthat she doesn't particularly
care about her weight.
So okay Then, if you're finewith what your weight is, great.
(20:09):
She did mention something abouttoning, so that would be
supporting body composition, butshe never says that she would
want to be lighter.
And now I don't know howexperienced of a runner she is,
but some people who have beenrunning for a while or or maybe
are just in the space they kindof know like, well, if I'm a
little bit lighter, I'm gonnafeel a little bit better.
(20:30):
So and maybe for her she feelsgood where she's at, so she's
not focused on her weight.
With that in mind, assuming thatshe's okay with where her
weight is, from a proteinstandpoint, I would recommend
that she's at a minimum, ataround 110 grams of protein per
day, with the assumed level ofactivity that she's going to be
(20:54):
taking in.
And Rob alluded to somethingthat's important too as far as
like going longer, runs, slowertempo, and like fat oxidation
for fuel.
So now we're getting a littlebit into like metabolic
flexibility right, where you'reusing fat when needed and using
carbs when needed in her case,again, not really knowing much
(21:18):
about and this is like I thinkit's important for people to
hear, like the more specific youare with telling us what you're
trying to accomplish, then thebetter we can make the
suggestions for you and tailoryour program for specifically
for your training, specificallyfor your nutrition um, there's a
reason why there's 20 apps thatyou can get for general advice
and we cost a little bit morethan that for sure, without a
(21:40):
doubt, and and even to thatpoint, even if the general app
because I mean with algorithmsand people's experience like
they can do a good job of anyonecan calculate a bmr, you go on
Google and you put BMRcalculator or whatever.
But I think the important thingfor people to your point, rob,
for people to understand is,like it's coaching is a
(22:03):
conversation, right, like theapp will potentially maybe maybe
not come up with the samenumbers that I come up with,
right, but then it's like theart is kind of in the
explanation, the art is in theadjustment as needed.
The art is also knowing theirpast medical history, their past
experiences with theirnutrition and all those sorts of
(22:27):
things, because I mean apps andAI and all those things.
They're helpful tools.
I mean apps and AI and allthose things.
They're helpful tools, butnothing will ever replace, like
our knowledge, our experienceand all those sorts of things,
which that's what makes a coacha great coach.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
At least within the next few months.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Nothing will replace us.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
I don't think we'll ever truly be replaced, as good
as ai can get and all thosethings, but either way, um, so
in in in her case.
Um, I'm obviously going to wantto make sure she's still
getting an adequate amount offat.
Now, how much that's going todepend on things like medical
history, what training lookslike, um, preferences, all those
things.
And then, of course,carbohydrate is going to be an
important aspect here, where alot of people might think I'm
doing endurance, I'm going forlong runs, I have to go higher
fat because you know what I justsaid about metabolic
(23:19):
flexibility.
But I think they misinterpretthat, because maybe she is going
to do like tempo runs.
Like when I hear people that doCrossFit that they go on low
carb, I'm like you're doingyourself a disservice.
You know what I mean.
You need that, that.
So it depends on what thetraining looks like.
So, ultimately, um, at leastfor the start, yeah, maybe
keeping it at around 2200 andsee how she feels.
(23:41):
There's a good chance that thenumber of calories will go up,
um, especially as training goesramping up, uh, and just with
that in mind, there's going tobe a chance that the macros are
going to shift as far as likethe percentages and all of those
things, because the macros aregoing to go up as well.
As calories goes up, macros aregoing to go up, obviously.
(24:01):
So it just, it really depends,but that's, that's just
generally my, my suggestion forall right, eric.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
So I'm going to put some hypotheticals here.
Right?
So, because gloria is awellness coach I think we all
know, unfortunately, how thisgame works, right?
Especially with the advent ofsocial media we got to look good
on camera, we got to look likesomebody that other people want
to look like.
So I'm just going to add somedetails here to Gloria's quick
(24:31):
little recommendations and saythat she wants to lose 10 pounds
because she wants her four packto pop out and I don't know if
Gloria has a four pack or notnow, but I'm just going to
assume that she doesn't.
So when she says something likeI want to tone down, I want to
tone up a little bit, I mean, weall know what that word, tony,
(24:51):
mean.
It basically means get rid ofbody fat so that your muscles
pop out a little bit.
Right, so we got to get rid ofa little bit of body fat.
And if she says I not only wantto get leaner to look
aesthetically better on socialmedia, I also feel that if I
drop down to 132 pounds you know, in the light 130 thirties my
(25:12):
uh half marathon performancewould be better.
So if she tells you I've beeneating around 2000 to 2200
calories uh per day and I'vebeen stable at 138 pounds.
What would be your next movethere to get her to lose a
little bit of weight while stillkeeping her performance?
Speaker 4 (25:30):
I would want to.
Well, for one, I'd want to knowwhat her training is going to
look like and how long she'sbeen doing this.
For A lot of times, my adviceis to do absolutely nothing,
just keep it where it's at andlet's see.
But also, it depends on howlong that's going to be for.
(25:50):
So, if her miles are going tostart ramping up, like Rob is
changing up her program, right,and he's saying like we're going
to do this, that and theintensity is going to go up, and
, of course, how is she feeling?
Like, again, this is where, likethe, the communication aspect
is huge.
It's this two way street oflearning like, all right, this
is how she's feeling, is howshe's performing, and should I
(26:13):
make certain changes now or justkind of sit on it?
Um, so let's just say, if she'sbeen doing this for a few weeks
or so and her weight hasn'tmoved at all, a few weeks or so
and her weight hasn't moved atall, um, the first thing that I
would recommend is, well, beforeI say that, when is the race?
That's going to be importantfor us to know too, like I hope
(26:36):
people are really seeing, like,how much detail and nuance goes
into all of this because when isthe race is going to dictate
the ramping up of volume orramping down of volume, and I
would more than likely donothing for the moment.
I would want to make sure youknow where's your protein, where
are your carbs, and so on andso forth.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
So you want to do nothing to make sure that she is
actually eating between 2,000and 2,200 calories, based on the
new training protocol, and thensee what happens to her weight.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
Correct.
I would want to make sure thatshe's just staying there, from a
caloric standpoint and a macrostandpoint, um, to see how her
body continues to respond,because more than likely it's
going to start.
The training is going to startramping up right.
So there's going to be adeficit regardless, and I'm not
trying to encourage like underfueling or anything along those
lines.
That can have an impact onother things too.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Yeah, I would assume that, based on my experiences
here, I would assume that shewould probably start to lose a
little bit of weight as thetraining volume increases, even
without focusing on a caloricdeficit.
And if you do start to focus ona caloric deficit, then I would
be really mindful of ofmodulating recovery.
I would see that would thatwould start to take a hit as
well.
Um then I would be reallymindful of modulating recovery.
I would see that would start totake a hit as well.
(27:49):
So I'm with Eric on that 100%.
What he's saying is theexperiences that I've seen for
individuals in these samesituations.
The training volume willincrease, the weight will come
off a little bit as your body'sgetting ready to perform 100%
For our audience it doesn'tquite catch.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
What we're talking about here is calories in,
calories out.
So if right now she's eating at2,000 calories at her current
training protocol but then shehires Rob to train her for the
summer Disney 5K or halfmarathon, so he's going to
increase the calories outportion of it, now they're going
to be putting themselves inwhat may be their slightly or
(28:24):
somewhat aggressive deficit.
Eric doesn't touch theircalories and all of a sudden
they start losing weight becauseof the calories outside of the
equation, right, yeah, so, um,that's the same protocol that I
take when I bring somebody on islike let's just start off,
let's truly find maintenance andthen let's go from there, let's
see how it says from there.
Clients have a tendency whichI'm sure you guys have
experiences that they getimpatient.
(28:45):
They want to see results rightnow as opposed to, uh, fighting.
That whole concept of underfueling is what you said.
And, eric, I repeat this athousand times we want you to
lose weight eating the mostamount of calories possible, and
a lot of that is due not onlyin the macronutrients but the
micronutrients.
You know the vitamins andminerals that come with that
food.
So, um, you know there's thatcome with that food.
So you know there's twodifferent ways that you can put
yourself in a deficit eithernutritionally or training or
(29:08):
both.
And the fun part is findingthat happy medium of is how do
we ramp up your calories outportion of it and keep your
calories in where you're stillmaintaining, you know, health
and wellness and fitness andvitality and your libido doesn't
suck.
And there's a series ofquestions that we ask when we do
put somebody in a deficit.
It's part of our look, feel andperform protocol where we're
(29:29):
trying to just gauge on what arethe ramifications or the
consequences of putting you in adeficit on one side or the
other.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
One of the guys I roll with at jujitsu cut down to
a lighter weight class.
He's like libido sucked energysucked everything.
I'm like, yeah, well, don'tcome down to, to my weight class
boy.
Speaker 4 (29:48):
God, that's important though, because people need to
understand, like what, what arethey willing to sacrifice, right
?
Right, if you're doing a combatsport, um, well then I hope you
know that you got into a sportthat's going to require like
feeling pretty crappy, likedepending on whatever weight
you're trying to to to roll thator to fight at, and so on and
(30:11):
so forth.
So it's like, what's the mostimportant thing for gloria here,
right is, does she really careabout the half marathon, her
time and her performing as bestas she can, or she's just like?
You know?
Speaker 2 (30:23):
I just I just want to finish it, yeah, and and feel
good, or somewhere in between,or somewhere, and that's where
the coach will.
Then you know for sure we maketweaks as needed and all of that
so she goes on it.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
She's there for, call it, three weeks.
Weight stays the same.
She's still eating about 2 000calories.
Um, rob has already employed.
She's been doing rob's newimplementation of training
protocol with the increasedvolume for the 21 days.
At that point would you startputting her in a little bit of a
caloric deficit and if so, whatmacros would you pull from
first?
Speaker 4 (30:55):
Yeah, I potentially would, and I say potentially
because I well, at this point wewould have already had a
conversation about what herhistory was possibly like.
If she's, like, had a historyof crash dieting and all these
things, um, and how, how soon todoing this, did she experience
that?
Um, and obviously, having theconversation of, like, is she
(31:16):
getting her period and all ofthat?
Um, there's the possibility ofmaybe even increasing the
calories to see how she feels.
And if she starts to feelbetter and then her output
increases, now the calories outaspect is going to improve
because now you have more orbetter gas in the system for the
(31:39):
system to function at a higherlevel, maybe, right, this all
depends on history and how she'sfeeling and all of that.
If I'm doing it justmathematically, then yes, what I
would recommend is all right,I'm going to cut back on her
overall calories.
Let's say she was at 2250calories.
Um, I might try to cut her backto, like maybe by a couple
(32:02):
hundred.
All right, let's see how youfeel at 2,050-ish calories.
And then, depending on what thetraining that Rob would
prescribe for her, all right, wemight have to mess around with
which macros we're taking from,but more than likely.
There's a chance that I wouldprobably just keep protein and
fat the same and just dancearound with the carbohydrates,
(32:23):
but never getting carbs superlow.
But just play with.
Play with those and see how sheresponds.
Maybe it will be, you know, acouple hundred calories worth of
carbs.
Maybe, maybe not.
It really depends how she'sfeeling during the sessions.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
One variable we haven't discussed yet, which is
very important, is Mike, do youknow what I'm going to say?
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Sleep, sleep, yeah, a hundred percent sleep.
So that's, um, that's what Iwould also tackle and I'll take
on the sleep portion of it.
I would obviously give her myrecommendations once she comes
out to this training program andI would say look, we're looking
for seven to eight hours, go tobed at the same time, wake up.
And when I say at the same time, you're roughly looking at
anywhere between 45 to 60minutes.
So if you're going to bed at 9pm, you're looking for sleep
(33:08):
time between you know, uh, let'scall it 8 30 and 9 30.
Trying to go to bed at the sametime, trying to wake up at the
same time.
The minute you wake up, oncethe sun rises, go outside, get
your 10 or 15 minutes ofsunlight, um, try to set your
circadian rhythm.
Uh, then, throughout the day,obviously expose yourself to
blue light, you know, stayactive, save, say vigil, and say
if you're gonna take a nap,make it a short, quick little 15
, 20 minutes if you need it, andthen start.
The biggest mistake that I seewith all of us and I would be
(33:33):
guilty of it as well if I didn'tadopt this one habit the babies
go to bed, my phone goes to bed.
So the babies go to bed around7.30, 8, that little half hour
window and the minute I'm done Iinput my dinner macronutrients
into my phone because I need myphone for that and then I put it
to sleep.
I put my my whoop alarm and mytwo other alarms and I put it by
(33:53):
my bed, I plug it in and I donot look at it the rest of the
night, because if I look at itand I see a text message, I feel
the urge to ask it or to answerit, and then my fault, for my
thumb has this weird way ofgoing onto Instagram and doom
scrolling again.
So I put my phone to bed and Irecommend this to all my clients
.
As a matter of fact, one oftheir daily tasks is called a
digital detox and it's basicallybedtime, kind of the same
(34:15):
protocol, obviously, like yousaid, alluded to many times,
eric is I try to figure outtheir lifestyle.
I have a client right now.
Her name is Margarita.
She has five kids and they'retwins and they're all below the
ages of five, so her world is alittle bit different than you
know.
My 22-year-old badass that's,you know, trying to become an
MMA fighter, right?
So two different protocols butI still try to figure out how
(34:37):
much sleep they're getting.
And then, once we implementthis protocol, then I follow up
with how are you sleeping?
Are you waking up in the middleof the night?
Are you sleeping soundly?
You know what's yourperformance feel like.
How do you look?
Do you have any, uh,reoccurring illnesses, like
little colds or flus or whatnot?
How do you feel in the gym?
How's your libido Are youlooking forward to?
training today.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Correct yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Are you motivated, ambitious, ready to take on the
world?
Or are you just sluggish, right?
Because then I'll look at theother two factors.
Okay, then, what's traininglook like and what's the calorie
intake look like?
So-.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Resting heart rate If she's plugged into, if you're
doing this through trainer eyes,you can get resting heart rate
data and checking that everymorning within five to 10 beats
Outside of that, you start toworry about overtraining or
undersleeping.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
I love my clients to have a WHOOP because I bring
them out to the whoop communityand I look at their HIV HRV and
make sure that they're gettingthe proper recovery there as
well.
So sleep, rob, and you knewthat I was going to answer the
same thing, because that's ahuge component of it is,
especially when it'sperformance-based, like Gloria
is.
Now we're really going to makesure that oh wait, you hired a
(35:41):
strength coach and you hired anutritionist.
Then we got to focus on therecovery side of it, because
that's the third and mostunderrated pillar when it comes
to whether it's fat loss orwhether it's performance or just
overall wellbeing.
The sleep side of it is huge.
So, gloria, I hope that you uhenjoyed our advice and, uh, like
(36:02):
I said, we're friends.
So reach out to us if you wanta little bit more, you know,
clarification on some of thethings we talked about.
And good luck on your halfmarathon.
You won't see me there.
Like Rob, I don't run more thana mile, but you know I
appreciate you reaching out tous and giving us your
information.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
Thank you for listening to this episode of the
Fitness Fiasco podcast.
You can find more informationabout the topics covered today
and in any other episode on ourwebsite, fitnessfiascocom.
If you're looking to connectwith our hosts, you can reach
Eric on Instagram at EricBustillo, that's
(36:40):
E-R-I-K-B-U-S-T-I-L-L-O.
Mike on Instagram at Mike OsunaFitness, that's
M-I-K-E-O-S-U-N-A-F-I-T-N-E-S-S,and Rob on Twitter at Rob
Strength.
Are we a go, Rob we're a go.
We're a go, we're back.
We're back for season.
We don't even know what theseason is, are there?
Speaker 2 (00:09):
seasons Never ending.
Season one Never ending, allright.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
We'll just keep going , all right.
So, rob, if you want to explainreal quick what we did on my
social media and what we'reabout to pull up, yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
So Mike posted on his social media earlier in the
week asking for Avatar,essentially, and what we're
going to do is we are going toprovide our own advice, based on
our specialties, for anindividual, a real person, who
submitted who they are, whatthey're you know, how tall they
are, how much they weigh andwhat their goals are, what their
current exercise activity lookslike, what their current
nutrition is and what their reallife looks like, and we're
going to provide our our advice,as if they were our client, on
(00:50):
what we would do to help themreach their goals.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Yeah, that's.
That's exactly what it is, rob.
So I did get permission fromsome of these people that chimed
in on my Instagram to say theirname and give them a shout out.
So the first one that I'm goingto give a shout out, it's
actually one of my old employees, one of my old coaches.
Her name is Gloria Rodriguez.
Her Instagram is let me lookthat up real quick because I do
(01:17):
want to give her a shout out andI appreciate her actually
chiming into which she's aformer coach and she's still
reaching out for help.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
That says a lot, because I know a lot of people
are afraid of, or maybe notafraid, but are a little
embarrassed about, reaching outfor help when it comes to your
health and or diet.
And don't be afraid, we've seen.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
We've seen a lot worse than whatever you're
presenting us with you know, Ialso think that it it's also a
different approach, right.
So I I get I'm sure you guysget spammed all the time um,
either for business coaching orphysique coaching or performance
coaching, and a lot of timesthey have free guides, right.
So I signed up.
I mean, lane Norton does allthe time.
There's a couple other guysthat I follow that you know are
(01:55):
really experts in the field thatI signed up just because I want
to see their approach.
Like, what are they doing oneither the business side and or
the coaching side, or shit?
Should I come out with a freeebook or whatnot?
So I sign up for them a lot too.
So I kind of think it's funnyon their end when they see, like
, all right, this is a coach's acoach also as well.
So I think gloria is kind ofdoing the same thing.
You're like, all right, whatapproach would you guys take to
(02:16):
this?
And obviously she knows all ofus, and so I think she highly
respects our opinion, you know.
So, all right.
So it's, her name is GloriaRodriguez and her Instagram is
glowglorodriguez with a Z R O DRI G Z.
So uh, gloria, I appreciate youreaching out to us and give us
this information.
So, female, fit, five foot five,138 to 140 pounds is what she
(02:37):
weighs.
She's 30 years old, uh, she's awellness coach, uh, and she
goes for walks five to seventimes per week.
She exercises six times a weekand she runs.
I'm sorry.
She does six training sessions.
Three of those are endurancerunning specifically, and three
are strength training.
(02:58):
Now I didn't really pick aparther training, like I didn't ask
her to be specific on what typeof training that she's doing.
So we're going to have to kindof guess some of these things.
I know I would follow herpretty well on social media, so
I kind of see some of the thingsthat she's doing.
I could chime in on that, but Ithink that's important,
especially when we do ourassessment forums.
I ask, obviously how many timesa week do you train?
(03:20):
And then let's get down to thespecifics of this training Are
you lifting weights?
If you are lifting weights, isit CrossFit, is it hypertrophy?
Is it powerlifting?
And then we discussed cardio.
So I really try to get as muchin-depth details as possible as
a person's current trainingprogram.
I did not do that with Gloriaor any of the avatars, but then
(03:42):
I asked her what is her goal?
And she wrote performance wise,she wants to run a half
marathon.
She's post knee surgery.
I don't know how long.
I'm going to guess about sixmonths, cause I know her.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
If she's cleared to exercise, that's good enough
from our approach.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Okay.
And physique she wouldn't mindtoning up a bit, losing up a
little bit body fat, uh, butconcerned with it, um, it's not
her primary goal.
So it seems like her primarygoal is performance.
At walking around at 138 140pounds, she has a good physique.
Um, aesthetically pleasing,food wise, she's currently
(04:21):
maintaining, uh, which is 2,000to 2,200 calories per day.
And that's all the info I got,and we could just add some fill
in the blanks for some of thestuff that we were trying to do
first.
So how do you guys want to typethis?
Do you guys want to type theperformance side first?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
I think, yeah, I think the first thing we got to
do is kind of dissect andprioritize her goals and and go
from there Right.
So basically, what we did hereis is we're we're doing a needs
analysis, um which we'refiguring out what her needs are,
and then we're going to analyzewhat she needs to to accomplish
those goals.
And she has her goals, and thenwe might need to reprioritize
(04:59):
some of them, but in her case,she's generally healthy.
I don't think we need to saylike, hey, you shouldn't be
worried so much about big bicepsright now.
We got to focus on losingweight.
It's like no, she's, she'shealthy.
What are her goals?
Maybe the only thing that wewould need to prioritize is is
minimizing overtraining.
You know, my guess is she'sprobably, you know, she might
push the border of what is tooactive, but I'm going to I'm not
(05:20):
going to factor that in herebecause she's not she's working
out six times a week.
She's not working out six timesa week and running.
So I think she, I think she'smonitoring that well.
So her, the number one goal Iheard was run a half marathon
and kind of, while running,while training for that half
marathon, maintain what she has,if not muscle mass yeah correct
, correct.
(05:40):
So if she's running three timesa week and doing three strength
training exercises I'm going tostart to, you know I would then
my first thing would be do youneed a running program?
You know, are you just gettingout there and doing mileage or
do you need a program targetedfor a half marathon?
Right, which is, you know thatwould be.
That would be step one, andthen step two would be to look
(06:02):
at the strength training andmake sure it factors it.
It factors in for for herrunning, you know, for her goal
of of running the half marathon,which generally, at age 30,
with miles on the body, as we,as we get up here, especially as
a coach, it needs to complimentmarathon training and that's
going to be a lot less lowerbody than you think.
Um, it's not like you're notgoing to go for a 10 mile run on
(06:23):
Monday and then do a whole lotof lunges and Bulgarian squats
on Tuesday.
All right, so our, yourmarathon training generally.
I'm going to start to.
I would probably start her on avery, um, my, my initial, my
initial programming would startto look on making sure she's
able to have eccentric control.
Uh, specifically working instuff like, like depth, drop
(06:44):
lands.
But I'm not talking 24 inches,we're saying three inches, six
inches.
Step off a three inch step andland.
I'm looking at the knees, I'mlooking at the ankles.
Um, while we're doing that ifI'm able to see her in person,
oftentimes with high volumerunning we're going to start to
look at issues with um, calfrange of motion, ankle range of
motion, and there's always thepotential there for Achilles
strains and tears, which we'reseeing a whole lot of, you know,
(07:05):
in sports these days, and a lotof that comes down to just
limited ankle dorsiflexion rangeof motion.
So I try to get an assessmenton that, while working on just
our eccentric control, and startto work on the capacity to do
ballistics and plyometrics,which might seem pretty advanced
, but ballistics and plyometricsare going to be the best
compliment for someone who'sexperienced for working on, for
(07:27):
getting them ready for a halfmarathon, and that will also be.
You know you can work that intoher approach on.
On recovery from the kneesurgery.
We started looking at eccentriccontrol of the knee stuff.
You know, bulgarian squatswould be a good exercise here.
But again, trying to avoid highvolume on the legs.
You need to modulate that.
But you can do stuff likesingle leg drops with a
(07:48):
Bulgarian squat.
So you're in a Bulgarian squatat the top and then instead of
just descending into your squat,you actually kind of do like a
little, like a little hop andthen land in in the bottom.
Um, and those are all verychallenging exercises.
You know those aren't foreveryone, but then you know I
think what can she do?
Where am I starting with her?
And I take it back to are wejust doing stuff like supported
pogo hops, low box, jump,repeats, big fan of so, just
(08:12):
like a three, like a 45 poundplate, and you're just hopping
back and forth, back and forth,on and off 20 reps, 20 seconds
on, 10 seconds off, type deal,getting those reps and making
sure you're working on, you know, stable middle, which is so
important for running, but justthat elasticity through the
calves, achilles, hamstrings.
So that's one thing in thiscase I would start is kind of
one of my longer progressionsfor ballistic, plyometric,
(08:34):
eccentric control, becausethat's a great way to maintain
lower body strength and musclemass and compliment with
endurance, endurance performance, because they're getting the
muscle volume we need, thenervous system volume.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Would you do these on her strength training days?
So she wrote she does three andthree.
So I'm assuming she does threestrength training days, three,
uh, running days.
So you would do these on herstrength training days and this
is how you would start off theworkout.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
You start off with some plyo, some ballistics yeah,
yeah, my typical workoutstructure is is going to be a
five minute warm-, five to tenminute warm up where we're
looking at general dynamicmovements, reverse lunges,
lateral lunges, good mornings,right.
After those five to ten minutes, then we do the gentle, the
gentle knurls, which are goingto be your plyometrics, your
ballistics.
And again, it depends on youknow, you say ballistics or
plyometrics and you either thinkof what Instagram people do or
(09:18):
you know all these wrongexercises, or just super
advanced plyometrics wherepeople are jumping off four foot
, you know four foot boxes andlanding.
It doesn't have to be that much, right, just if you just jump.
Jumping jacks are ballistic orplyometric, right for, for
example, um, you know, and?
And so after that 10 minutewarm-up, five to ten minutes of
these neurals and then we wouldstart to work into the, the
(09:40):
lifts.
So that's where, whatever youknow, again, for her, because
she's getting so much leg volume, it would be more bias, more
towards upper body.
Granted, every workout would betotal body.
So I'd say, like there's atotal body pull emphasis, total
body, push emphasis stays.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Got it.
So then, on her running days.
So now she attacks her runningdays.
Would you do some sort oflinear periodization with that
Working days?
So now she attacks her runningdays, would you do some sort of
linear periodization with that,um, working her up to a half
marathon, looking for her peak,and then maybe, like a taper
week, walking into that?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
yeah, yeah.
So for for running for a halfmarathon, that does depend on,
like the depending on on whather her goals are.
Um, like, is she just trying toaccomplish a half marathon in
which, in which case, then,we're just trying to get up, get
up the volume, uh, which a bigfan, a big fan of of like the
walk, run type stuff.
Um, I know footworks does agood job with with getting
people ready for their firsthalf marathon, where they you
know they're, they run two miles, then walk a mile or something
(10:30):
like, and you just build, buildthat up.
That's a great way of ofbuilding up volume.
If you've not run before, um,I'm not a big fan of of running
too much further than a mileanyway, myself.
So you know it's, uh, do it, doas I say, not as I do, in in in
in this case.
Uh, but if she is moreexperienced with running, then
we're going to start to look athow far out is this half
marathon build.
(10:50):
You know the there I would.
I would love to say that youdon't need mileage to be good at
endurance performance, but allthe research suggests that you
do need mileage on the road tobe good at endurance performance
.
However, it's much slower thanmost people do.
Um, you know it's, it's almostthe speed as if you were
training for a hundred miles isgoing to be your, your LSD runs,
your long, slow distancetraining runs.
(11:10):
And then I just was talking withJose Otero the other day.
He's a Uber distance runner,great distance runner, that's
been involved with our CrossFitgyms for many years.
Um, your CrossFit gyms that Iworked at.
Um, but, uh, um, and Jose washas moved away from some of the
half marathon marathon trainingand got into some really long
training and he's like Rob, it's.
It's amazing, when I slowed itdown, how much more recovered I
(11:33):
am, how much easier my, mytraining feels.
And it's just, you take it anotch below your marathon pace
to this LSD pace, which is, youknow for, is going to really
help with fat metabolism as well.
That's one of the trainingbenefits of it.
So you're going to get yourmiles that way, you're, you're
going to get your mileage thatway.
In the beginning you'llprobably just do two or three of
those really slower, longerones a week and then you can
(11:55):
start to work in your intervalsuh, short intervals, long
intervals, tempo training uh,tempo training would be like at
race pace, or even faster, milerepeats.
800 meter repeats would be my,you know.
800 to mile repeats would bethe longer intervals.
200 to 400 repeats would be theshorter intervals um 800s are
gross.
Yes, they are.
Yeah, they put you at a weirdpace.
(12:17):
Your, your 800 is your fran.
Time is as always.
That's why fran sucks so muchand that's why the 800 sucks so
much, because you really justpush that, that anaerobic
glycolytic capacity of you,completely, but the yeah like,
and then you just kind ofmodulate the training volume.
So there's, there's a conceptwhere it's called a training
(12:38):
impulse score and every type ofevery mile that you run, or
every interval that you run, hasa has a number associated based
on the difficulty, and that'show you track your training
tonnage with, with running, andit's called a trim score.
All right, so a long slowdistance, one mile equals one,
whereas for tempo training, um,you know, tempo training, that
is where you're doing, let's say, a hundred or two or three
(13:01):
miles, recover two or threemiles, but you're doing it at or
below your, your race pace.
So it's a, it's a much fasterpace.
That would be like a trainingimpulse score of a three.
So 10 miles of long slowdistance, you accumulated 10
points, whereas, uh, nine milesof tempo training on a hard
workout later in the week, let'ssay, that's a lot of miles, but
either way, that would be, thatwould be 27 impulse points.
(13:22):
So the impact on recovery ismuch greater from that and
that's how you would make surethat you are progressing and do
have those deload weeks built inRight.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
So if you so, if you earn a certain amount of points,
you're going to get weeks builtin right.
So, if you so, if you earn acertain amount of points, you're
going to get um the opportunity, once you hit that threshold,
to take a deload week orrecovery time.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Yeah, yeah, I use the words points there, but it's
not so much accumulating pointsas much as it is for the coach
to modulate volume, it's justmaking sure that you're
progressing at a safe, at a saferate, adding a few extra
training impulse points per perweek and taking, taking it off
when necessary and when you sayyou spoke about run, walk uh
protocol along with the intervaltraining, what's the recovery
(13:58):
time?
Speaker 1 (13:58):
let's say on that uh that 800, right?
So if they run an 800, how muchrecovery time would you give
before the next 800 uh?
Speaker 2 (14:05):
one to one is going to be where one to one and one
to two is going to be the mostcommon work to recovery ratios.
They're're, um, reallydependent on on on what you're
looking at.
Um, you know, you could, youcould cut it short a little bit,
you can go a little bit longer.
It depends on what they'restrong, what they're they're
stronger at.
Uh.
So if someone is betteraerobically, like if someone
runs a lot of marathons andthey're now they want to improve
(14:27):
their, their half marathon oreven their 5k, 10k times, so
they need more experience inthat anaerobic threshold, then
you're going to want to um, thenyou're going to want to, to
increase that rest, to push thepace during the run right,
whereas someone's the opposite.
If someone's much better, likemyself I'm much better at 400 or
800.
And I want to run a half halfmarathon I need to work more in
(14:48):
that one-to-one realm than theone-to-three realm to work on
what I'm bad at To get you backon the track, to work on that
endurance side of it.
Correct.
Correct, because a one-to-onework-rest ratio is pretty
typical for aerobic one-to-one,one-to-two.
Now, if we're talking speedworks, going strength and
conditioning style, like you'redoing 40s, a work-rest ratio
there would be like one-to-20.
So, if you're doing a foursecond, let's say you're doing a
(15:10):
flying 40 or a flying 30, forexample, it takes four seconds,
right?
What's 20 times four seconds?
You're looking at an 80 secondminute, 20 recovery, and that's
why you see these people doflying forties every 30 seconds.
You're not working speed,you're just doing aerobic
conditioning.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Yeah, it's.
Um.
I'm sure you've run hundredsbefore on a football field and
then old school was just okay,walk around the football field
and make it back, and sometimesif you're pacing too hard, by
the time you make it back you'rejust not ready to go for the
next one.
It's just not enough time,correct?
It's an incredibly slow walk.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
And what speed is football at?
It's at full speed.
It's not at that jog speed.
And then shout out to CoachSwayze who got the head football
strength and conditioning jobat Colorado yeah, with Coach
Prime right now.
So he was a big pioneer in myearly, early days as a graduate
assistant on seeing speedtraining in person.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
That's very cool, as much as I try not to be a
Colorado fan.
Then they bring in Sapp, andthen they bring in Swayze.
I'm like God.
These guys are just making mewant to like them.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Yeah, so all right.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
So let's just kind of catch up where we're at now.
So she's training three times aweek.
She started off with someballistic plyo in the beginning
that she's going into hercompound lifts, mostly focusing
on upper body, ish, right, sothree times a week to the body.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Yeah, I wouldn't Emphasis.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Yeah, there's it'll bias towards the upper body just
because, again, the lower bodyis getting that.
That poundage on the road Gotit.
You'd be surprised how you knowhow much you know.
If you go for a long run andyou get in the next day and into
the gym the next day and try tosquat, your legs and knees are
just not feeling it.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Yeah, so she's also doing some uh track work or, you
know, road work, three times aweek with a protocol that we
kind of just went over there.
She's probably still going tomaintain muscle mass.
If not, she's probably going toshed some body fat.
So let's talk a little bitabout uh.
Just because her trainingvolume is so high, let's talk a
(17:01):
little bit about her food.
One thing I do want to throw inbefore we get to eric really,
quick is for for pacing wise.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
So to understand what your pacing is, um, I would do
all of that and that is bestdone if I have a good 5k time
for you.
So if you know your 5k time, Ican estimate VO two, max VO two
max pace.
A half marathon pace, marathonpace, 5k pace, 10k pace, and I'd
get your fast intervals, shortintervals.
So if you do want, likeendurance, specific training, if
(17:28):
you have a 5k time that makesyou know, I have equations that
would then make our job veryeasy of figuring out what pace
you need to go at, whetheryou're going at a miles per hour
or a heart rate or yeah, andit's.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
It's important.
Your initial question is is shejust trying to complete a half
marathon, like a Disney halfmarathon, or is she like going
for the gold type of thing,right?
So that's a good question toask.
We would typically ask on ourintake forms, what, through
Instagram didn't get that indepth, right?
Yeah, so we're just guessinghere.
So, eric, five, five, 30 yearsold, 140 ish pounds, 40 pounds,
(18:04):
and she's eating about 2200calories.
She said I'm eating atmaintenance and I'm going to
guess she's deducing that she'son maintenance because she's not
gaining or really losing anyweight.
So you know, theoreticallyshe's pretty much on point,
which I think is good at her.
What would you do?
Is there anything you would addor change her macros in any way
(18:24):
?
I guess she didn't get specificon that but let's assume that
she's a newcomer and doesn'teven know how many calories or
macros that she's in For sure.
Yeah, she's a newcomer anddoesn't even know how many
calories or macros that she's inFor sure.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Yeah, I mean, the first thing that I would do is,
when I look at those numbersfemale 355, 139 pounds I'm going
to calculate the BMR just tosee where it's at.
And that puts her at around1350 of the basal metabolic rate
(18:53):
, which we did an episode onthat.
So, go listen to it and thenI'll factor in all right, based
on her training, like there'sgoing to be this activity factor
which, in her case, somethinglike multiplying that BMR by
like a 1.5 or 1.6 or somethingalong those lines, and that puts
(19:22):
her right around that like2000-ish calories, 2000, maybe
2200.
And who knows, maybe she didexactly that and that's where
she got maintenance from.
I don't know if she's trackingher weight and all of that, and
I came up with that number justlike.
For me it was just kind of likea generic estimation, since we
don't have more information onexactly what her workouts look
like.
Three days of strength, threedays of running, for all I know
(19:47):
she's running one mile.
Running one mile is not goingto make a huge difference on
somebody's nutrition, you knowso, and not knowing wherever her
macros are at.
But I do know that she saysthat she doesn't particularly
care about her weight.
So okay Then, if you're finewith what your weight is, great.
(20:09):
She did mention something abouttoning, so that would be
supporting body composition, butshe never says that she would
want to be lighter.
And now I don't know howexperienced of a runner she is,
but some people who have beenrunning for a while or or maybe
are just in the space they kindof know like, well, if I'm a
little bit lighter, I'm gonnafeel a little bit better.
(20:30):
So and maybe for her she feelsgood where she's at, so she's
not focused on her weight.
With that in mind, assuming thatshe's okay with where her
weight is, from a proteinstandpoint, I would recommend
that she's at a minimum, ataround 110 grams of protein per
day, with the assumed level ofactivity that she's going to be
(20:54):
taking in.
And Rob alluded to somethingthat's important too as far as
like going longer, runs, slowertempo, and like fat oxidation
for fuel.
So now we're getting a littlebit into like metabolic
flexibility right, where you'reusing fat when needed and using
carbs when needed in her case,again, not really knowing much
(21:18):
about and this is like I thinkit's important for people to
hear, like the more specific youare with telling us what you're
trying to accomplish, then thebetter we can make the
suggestions for you and tailoryour program for specifically
for your training, specificallyfor your nutrition um, there's a
reason why there's 20 apps thatyou can get for general advice
and we cost a little bit morethan that for sure, without a
(21:40):
doubt, and and even to thatpoint, even if the general app
because I mean with algorithmsand people's experience like
they can do a good job of anyonecan calculate a bmr, you go on
Google and you put BMRcalculator or whatever.
But I think the important thingfor people to your point, rob,
for people to understand is,like it's coaching is a
(22:03):
conversation, right, like theapp will potentially maybe maybe
not come up with the samenumbers that I come up with,
right, but then it's like theart is kind of in the
explanation, the art is in theadjustment as needed.
The art is also knowing theirpast medical history, their past
experiences with theirnutrition and all those sorts of
(22:27):
things, because I mean apps andAI and all those things.
They're helpful tools.
I mean apps and AI and allthose things.
They're helpful tools, butnothing will ever replace, like
our knowledge, our experienceand all those sorts of things,
which that's what makes a coacha great coach.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
At least within the next few months.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Nothing will replace us.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
I don't think we'll ever truly be replaced, as good
as ai can get and all thosethings, but either way, um, so
in in in her case.
Um, I'm obviously going to wantto make sure she's still
getting an adequate amount offat.
Now, how much that's going todepend on things like medical
history, what training lookslike, um, preferences, all those
things.
And then, of course,carbohydrate is going to be an
important aspect here, where alot of people might think I'm
doing endurance, I'm going forlong runs, I have to go higher
fat because you know what I justsaid about metabolic
(23:19):
flexibility.
But I think they misinterpretthat, because maybe she is going
to do like tempo runs.
Like when I hear people that doCrossFit that they go on low
carb, I'm like you're doingyourself a disservice.
You know what I mean.
You need that, that.
So it depends on what thetraining looks like.
So, ultimately, um, at leastfor the start, yeah, maybe
keeping it at around 2200 andsee how she feels.
(23:41):
There's a good chance that thenumber of calories will go up,
um, especially as training goesramping up, uh, and just with
that in mind, there's going tobe a chance that the macros are
going to shift as far as likethe percentages and all of those
things, because the macros aregoing to go up as well.
As calories goes up, macros aregoing to go up, obviously.
(24:01):
So it just, it really depends,but that's, that's just
generally my, my suggestion forall right, eric.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
So I'm going to put some hypotheticals here.
Right?
So, because gloria is awellness coach I think we all
know, unfortunately, how thisgame works, right?
Especially with the advent ofsocial media we got to look good
on camera, we got to look likesomebody that other people want
to look like.
So I'm just going to add somedetails here to Gloria's quick
(24:31):
little recommendations and saythat she wants to lose 10 pounds
because she wants her four packto pop out and I don't know if
Gloria has a four pack or notnow, but I'm just going to
assume that she doesn't.
So when she says something likeI want to tone down, I want to
tone up a little bit, I mean, weall know what that word, tony,
(24:51):
mean.
It basically means get rid ofbody fat so that your muscles
pop out a little bit.
Right, so we got to get rid ofa little bit of body fat.
And if she says I not only wantto get leaner to look
aesthetically better on socialmedia, I also feel that if I
drop down to 132 pounds you know, in the light 130 thirties my
(25:12):
uh half marathon performancewould be better.
So if she tells you I've beeneating around 2000 to 2200
calories uh per day and I'vebeen stable at 138 pounds.
What would be your next movethere to get her to lose a
little bit of weight while stillkeeping her performance?
Speaker 4 (25:30):
I would want to.
Well, for one, I'd want to knowwhat her training is going to
look like and how long she'sbeen doing this.
For A lot of times, my adviceis to do absolutely nothing,
just keep it where it's at andlet's see.
But also, it depends on howlong that's going to be for.
(25:50):
So, if her miles are going tostart ramping up, like Rob is
changing up her program, right,and he's saying like we're going
to do this, that and theintensity is going to go up, and
, of course, how is she feeling?
Like, again, this is where, likethe, the communication aspect
is huge.
It's this two way street oflearning like, all right, this
is how she's feeling, is howshe's performing, and should I
(26:13):
make certain changes now or justkind of sit on it?
Um, so let's just say, if she'sbeen doing this for a few weeks
or so and her weight hasn'tmoved at all, a few weeks or so
and her weight hasn't moved atall, um, the first thing that I
would recommend is, well, beforeI say that, when is the race?
That's going to be importantfor us to know too, like I hope
(26:36):
people are really seeing, like,how much detail and nuance goes
into all of this because when isthe race is going to dictate
the ramping up of volume orramping down of volume, and I
would more than likely donothing for the moment.
I would want to make sure youknow where's your protein, where
are your carbs, and so on andso forth.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
So you want to do nothing to make sure that she is
actually eating between 2,000and 2,200 calories, based on the
new training protocol, and thensee what happens to her weight.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
Correct.
I would want to make sure thatshe's just staying there, from a
caloric standpoint and a macrostandpoint, um, to see how her
body continues to respond,because more than likely it's
going to start.
The training is going to startramping up right.
So there's going to be adeficit regardless, and I'm not
trying to encourage like underfueling or anything along those
lines.
That can have an impact onother things too.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Yeah, I would assume that, based on my experiences
here, I would assume that shewould probably start to lose a
little bit of weight as thetraining volume increases, even
without focusing on a caloricdeficit.
And if you do start to focus ona caloric deficit, then I would
be really mindful of ofmodulating recovery.
I would see that would thatwould start to take a hit as
well.
Um then I would be reallymindful of modulating recovery.
I would see that would start totake a hit as well.
(27:49):
So I'm with Eric on that 100%.
What he's saying is theexperiences that I've seen for
individuals in these samesituations.
The training volume willincrease, the weight will come
off a little bit as your body'sgetting ready to perform 100%
For our audience it doesn'tquite catch.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
What we're talking about here is calories in,
calories out.
So if right now she's eating at2,000 calories at her current
training protocol but then shehires Rob to train her for the
summer Disney 5K or halfmarathon, so he's going to
increase the calories outportion of it, now they're going
to be putting themselves inwhat may be their slightly or
(28:24):
somewhat aggressive deficit.
Eric doesn't touch theircalories and all of a sudden
they start losing weight becauseof the calories outside of the
equation, right, yeah, so, um,that's the same protocol that I
take when I bring somebody on islike let's just start off,
let's truly find maintenance andthen let's go from there, let's
see how it says from there.
Clients have a tendency whichI'm sure you guys have
experiences that they getimpatient.
(28:45):
They want to see results rightnow as opposed to, uh, fighting.
That whole concept of underfueling is what you said.
And, eric, I repeat this athousand times we want you to
lose weight eating the mostamount of calories possible, and
a lot of that is due not onlyin the macronutrients but the
micronutrients.
You know the vitamins andminerals that come with that
food.
So, um, you know there's thatcome with that food.
So you know there's twodifferent ways that you can put
yourself in a deficit eithernutritionally or training or
(29:08):
both.
And the fun part is findingthat happy medium of is how do
we ramp up your calories outportion of it and keep your
calories in where you're stillmaintaining, you know, health
and wellness and fitness andvitality and your libido doesn't
suck.
And there's a series ofquestions that we ask when we do
put somebody in a deficit.
It's part of our look, feel andperform protocol where we're
(29:29):
trying to just gauge on what arethe ramifications or the
consequences of putting you in adeficit on one side or the
other.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
One of the guys I roll with at jujitsu cut down to
a lighter weight class.
He's like libido sucked energysucked everything.
I'm like, yeah, well, don'tcome down to, to my weight class
boy.
Speaker 4 (29:48):
God, that's important though, because people need to
understand, like what, what arethey willing to sacrifice, right
?
Right, if you're doing a combatsport, um, well then I hope you
know that you got into a sportthat's going to require like
feeling pretty crappy, likedepending on whatever weight
you're trying to to to roll thator to fight at, and so on and
(30:11):
so forth.
So it's like, what's the mostimportant thing for gloria here,
right is, does she really careabout the half marathon, her
time and her performing as bestas she can, or she's just like?
You know?
Speaker 2 (30:23):
I just I just want to finish it, yeah, and and feel
good, or somewhere in between,or somewhere, and that's where
the coach will.
Then you know for sure we maketweaks as needed and all of that
so she goes on it.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
She's there for, call it, three weeks.
Weight stays the same.
She's still eating about 2 000calories.
Um, rob has already employed.
She's been doing rob's newimplementation of training
protocol with the increasedvolume for the 21 days.
At that point would you startputting her in a little bit of a
caloric deficit and if so, whatmacros would you pull from
first?
Speaker 4 (30:55):
Yeah, I potentially would, and I say potentially
because I well, at this point wewould have already had a
conversation about what herhistory was possibly like.
If she's, like, had a historyof crash dieting and all these
things, um, and how, how soon todoing this, did she experience
that?
Um, and obviously, having theconversation of, like, is she
(31:16):
getting her period and all ofthat?
Um, there's the possibility ofmaybe even increasing the
calories to see how she feels.
And if she starts to feelbetter and then her output
increases, now the calories outaspect is going to improve
because now you have more orbetter gas in the system for the
(31:39):
system to function at a higherlevel, maybe, right, this all
depends on history and how she'sfeeling and all of that.
If I'm doing it justmathematically, then yes, what I
would recommend is all right,I'm going to cut back on her
overall calories.
Let's say she was at 2250calories.
Um, I might try to cut her backto, like maybe by a couple
(32:02):
hundred.
All right, let's see how youfeel at 2,050-ish calories.
And then, depending on what thetraining that Rob would
prescribe for her, all right, wemight have to mess around with
which macros we're taking from,but more than likely.
There's a chance that I wouldprobably just keep protein and
fat the same and just dancearound with the carbohydrates,
(32:23):
but never getting carbs superlow.
But just play with.
Play with those and see how sheresponds.
Maybe it will be, you know, acouple hundred calories worth of
carbs.
Maybe, maybe not.
It really depends how she'sfeeling during the sessions.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
One variable we haven't discussed yet, which is
very important, is Mike, do youknow what I'm going to say?
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Sleep, sleep, yeah, a hundred percent sleep.
So that's, um, that's what Iwould also tackle and I'll take
on the sleep portion of it.
I would obviously give her myrecommendations once she comes
out to this training program andI would say look, we're looking
for seven to eight hours, go tobed at the same time, wake up.
And when I say at the same time, you're roughly looking at
anywhere between 45 to 60minutes.
So if you're going to bed at 9pm, you're looking for sleep
(33:08):
time between you know, uh, let'scall it 8 30 and 9 30.
Trying to go to bed at the sametime, trying to wake up at the
same time.
The minute you wake up, oncethe sun rises, go outside, get
your 10 or 15 minutes ofsunlight, um, try to set your
circadian rhythm.
Uh, then, throughout the day,obviously expose yourself to
blue light, you know, stayactive, save, say vigil, and say
if you're gonna take a nap,make it a short, quick little 15
, 20 minutes if you need it, andthen start.
The biggest mistake that I seewith all of us and I would be
(33:33):
guilty of it as well if I didn'tadopt this one habit the babies
go to bed, my phone goes to bed.
So the babies go to bed around7.30, 8, that little half hour
window and the minute I'm done Iinput my dinner macronutrients
into my phone because I need myphone for that and then I put it
to sleep.
I put my my whoop alarm and mytwo other alarms and I put it by
(33:53):
my bed, I plug it in and I donot look at it the rest of the
night, because if I look at itand I see a text message, I feel
the urge to ask it or to answerit, and then my fault, for my
thumb has this weird way ofgoing onto Instagram and doom
scrolling again.
So I put my phone to bed and Irecommend this to all my clients
.
As a matter of fact, one oftheir daily tasks is called a
digital detox and it's basicallybedtime, kind of the same
(34:15):
protocol, obviously, like yousaid, alluded to many times,
eric is I try to figure outtheir lifestyle.
I have a client right now.
Her name is Margarita.
She has five kids and they'retwins and they're all below the
ages of five, so her world is alittle bit different than you
know.
My 22-year-old badass that's,you know, trying to become an
MMA fighter, right?
So two different protocols butI still try to figure out how
(34:37):
much sleep they're getting.
And then, once we implementthis protocol, then I follow up
with how are you sleeping?
Are you waking up in the middleof the night?
Are you sleeping soundly?
You know what's yourperformance feel like.
How do you look?
Do you have any, uh,reoccurring illnesses, like
little colds or flus or whatnot?
How do you feel in the gym?
How's your libido Are youlooking forward to?
training today.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Correct yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Are you motivated, ambitious, ready to take on the
world?
Or are you just sluggish, right?
Because then I'll look at theother two factors.
Okay, then, what's traininglook like and what's the calorie
intake look like?
So-.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Resting heart rate If she's plugged into, if you're
doing this through trainer eyes,you can get resting heart rate
data and checking that everymorning within five to 10 beats
Outside of that, you start toworry about overtraining or
undersleeping.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
I love my clients to have a WHOOP because I bring
them out to the whoop communityand I look at their HIV HRV and
make sure that they're gettingthe proper recovery there as
well.
So sleep, rob, and you knewthat I was going to answer the
same thing, because that's ahuge component of it is,
especially when it'sperformance-based, like Gloria
is.
Now we're really going to makesure that oh wait, you hired a
(35:41):
strength coach and you hired anutritionist.
Then we got to focus on therecovery side of it, because
that's the third and mostunderrated pillar when it comes
to whether it's fat loss orwhether it's performance or just
overall wellbeing.
The sleep side of it is huge.
So, gloria, I hope that you uhenjoyed our advice and, uh, like
(36:02):
I said, we're friends.
So reach out to us if you wanta little bit more, you know,
clarification on some of thethings we talked about.
And good luck on your halfmarathon.
You won't see me there.
Like Rob, I don't run more thana mile, but you know I
appreciate you reaching out tous and giving us your
information.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
Thank you for listening to this episode of the
Fitness Fiasco podcast.
You can find more informationabout the topics covered today
and in any other episode on ourwebsite, fitnessfiascocom.
If you're looking to connectwith our hosts, you can reach
Eric on Instagram at EricBustillo, that's
(36:40):
E-R-I-K-B-U-S-T-I-L-L-O.
Mike on Instagram at Mike OsunaFitness, that's
M-I-K-E-O-S-U-N-A-F-I-T-N-E-S-S,and Rob on Twitter at Rob
Strength.
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