September 1, 2025 • 48 mins
What happens when your contractor disappears to Brazil with your deposit money? How do you recover when your "simple" $10,000 renovation balloons to $30,000? Lois takes us behind the glossy before-and-after photos to reveal the messy, beautiful truth about house flipping.
With a background in mortgage financing, Lois understood the numbers side of real estate but hesitated to jump into investing because "it was just too scary." That changed when she joined our community and took action—purchasing her first flip within 90 days. What followed was a journey filled with unexpected challenges, powerful lessons, and remarkable personal growth.
Her candid account of breaking even on her first flip and losing money on her second provides invaluable insights for both novice and experienced investors. From foundation issues that turned out to be simple drainage problems to the emotional high of transforming neglected properties into beautiful homes, Lois shares the unfiltered reality of house flipping. She explains how she discovered she's not risk-averse but "calculated risk friendly," and how this mindset shift transformed her approach to both real estate and life.
Beyond the financial details, Lois reveals the profound personal satisfaction she finds in the transformation process—putting herself in the buyer's shoes, making thoughtful design choices, and giving houses a chance at a new story. Her journey parallels her other surprising life adventures, including joining a college marching band in her fifties and becoming an ultra-runner in her forties after never considering herself athletic.
Whether you're contemplating your first investment or recovering from a challenging flip, Lois's story reminds us that success isn't measured solely by profit margins but by courage, resilience, and the willingness to keep showing up. As she wisely notes, "It's amazing what happens if you just take little steps forward. You'd be shocked at what might happen if you do that."
GOODIES
1. THE book on women flipping houses is here! Click here to grab the digital download of my new book for just $4.99! Just as everything else we do is different, so is FLIPPED: Lessons and Stories of Women Flipping Houses and Facing Their Fears.
2. Sick of sitting on the sideline watching other people do the thing you want to be doing? Are you FINALLY ready to do what it takes to flip your first house and want incredible step-by-step training and support to get you there faster? Click here to see if we may be a fit to work together.
3. Follow That Flip! Follow this 8-part video series as we flip a house!
4. Our goal is to inspire 1,000 new women each month and we've been achieving it with help from loyal listeners like you! If you are getting value out of this podcast will you kindly leave us a rating and review and help us spread our message?
5. Are you a real estate agent tired of chasing the same potential clients as everyone else? Sick of the roller coaster commission? Get the REI Agent Pro Certification! Click here for info and to join the waitlist.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to the Flip Houses Like a Girl
podcast, where we educate,empower and celebrate everyday
women who are facing their fears, juggling family and business,
embracing their awesomeness andwholeheartedly chasing their
dream of flipping houses.
Each episode delivershonest-to-goodness tools, tips
(00:21):
and strategies you can implementtoday to get closer to your
first or next successful houseflip.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Hey there, welcome back to Flip Houses.
Like a Girl, I'm Sis Donnelly,a real estate investor coach and
proud member of this amazingcommunity for nearly six years
now.
Today's episode is a wild ridein the best way possible.
Our guest, lois, took us on arollercoaster journey full of
twists, turns and totaltransformation.
(00:55):
She's opening up about thepowerful mindset shifts that
helped her push past fear, takeaction and grow in ways that she
never expected.
We're talking real talk, realhouses, real breakthroughs.
And she's not done yet.
Lois shares what's next on herjourney and, trust me, you're
going to want to hear it.
(01:16):
Be sure to listen all the wayto the end.
Lois drops some seriouslyvaluable lessons she's learned
along the way, and you'll hearhow the Flip Sisters community
has played a big role in herjourney.
Let's dive in.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
I'm Lois.
I live in Cary, north Carolina,which is right outside of
Raleigh.
Let's see why did I want to getstarted pooping houses?
My whole career has been inresidential mortgage and then
mostly commercial mortgage,small business financing.
So just in general, I likebuildings, I like houses, I like
real estate, I like financing,I like the math, I like figuring
(01:55):
out how it all fits togetherand all that kind of stuff.
So I've had a love for realestate investment for a long
time and have never actuallyparticipated because it was just
too scary, right.
I mean, I I knew I knew a lotof stuff, but I didn't know all
this stuff.
So it was almost on a whim whenI saw like the flip sister
(02:17):
stuff come up and I was like,ooh, I'd love to fix up old
houses, like I'd love to reallydo this, and here's a group
that's going to show me the wayand they look really cool.
So I joined.
You know there wasn't anenormous amount of research or
forethought that went into it,but I just went for it and
really the thing that impressedme the most is that as I started
(02:38):
I reached out.
I think the first person Italked to was Blair, or I don't
know if I talked to her.
We communicated somehow and andand she answered some questions
and the first thing I noticedwas that you weren't asking me
for money.
So I was like, hmm, well,that's cool.
And then, like the next timethere was a conversation and
again I don't remember if it wasemail or what the form of the
conversation was, but it wasanother thing where it's like
(03:00):
they do sound really great andthey're still not asking me for
money.
So I'm like all right, you knowthat that may be even more
interested in, in more feelinglike this is they're not just
trying to get a subscription,you know they're, they really
have an interest.
And that's that's exactly how Ifelt ever since then.
And and not to be like ashameless, like you know butt
kisser, but it's I mean I'vegotten nothing but support and
(03:24):
good things out of this group.
I love that.
So, yeah, that you know, and italso, like I mentioned before,
this kind of coincided with mereally kind of getting on my own
.
I'd gotten divorced and my kidswere getting a little older at
that.
When I did my first split theywere still.
I think they were still in highschool.
I think my son, my son waseither a senior in high school
(03:44):
or freshman in college, so theywere requiring a lot less
hands-on.
They were, you know, they hadreached a different stage in
life.
So it really worked out that Ihad the time and the energy to
do this and both my kids helpedon my first split.
They, you know each, you know.
My daughter especially, who wasthe younger of the two, was
great.
(04:04):
Like I was able to say, hey,can you paint the edges of that
ceiling?
And she's like, yep, she justdid it, it was so cool to have
both of them involved in thatkind of thing, so that was great
.
So it was.
It was all just kind of likeyou know, kind of everything in
the universe leaning towardsperfect timing, and I was kind
of like you know, and I thoughtthings through.
(04:25):
I'm like, okay, this, this isscary, and you know what's,
what's the worst thing that canhappen, the worst thing that
could happen, is that I mightlose some money and I will be
okay, like I have earningcapacity.
You know, worse, worse, worsescenario, cause I use my home
equity line of credit for for my, you know, my I was my own hard
.
I used my home equity line ofcredit for my, you know, I was
(04:45):
my own private money lender.
I was, like you know, worst case, absolute worst case.
If I really got in trouble, Ican sell this house, I can pay
it off, I can move on, it's allgoing to be okay.
So that's what I had to kind ofkeep telling myself as I got
involved.
Like you know, it's okay tohave a healthy level of fear,
but I can't let that rule me.
And I also realized too thatI've always thought I was very
(05:08):
risk averse.
And I'm not risk averse.
I am very I'm very calculatedrisk friendly.
I'm not wild risk friendly, andthat was as I realized.
I'm like, if I understand thesituation and I've done the
numbers and I feel comfortablewith best and worst case, I'm
fine and I'm willing to takesome risk on you know.
(05:30):
So.
So that was kind of cool tofind out about myself, as I
really kind of dove in there.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
So you actually just made me have kind of a light
bulb moment, yeah, because Ihave always thought of risk
tolerance as being risk averseor risk friendly, and that was
it.
But you're right, there's thishuge spectrum, right.
Like not everybody is going tobe in the same.
You can't just define it as oneend or the other.
(05:56):
There's always going to be thisgray area where everybody falls
a little bit somewheredifferent, right, yeah?
Speaker 3 (06:03):
yeah, there's a lot of mitigating factors.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Yeah, 100%, 100%.
So you bought your first flippretty early on in the program.
You were 90 days in and youwere under contract on your
first flip and, yes, you werepaired up with Coach Blair.
She speaks very highly of you.
She was so excited for you todo this podcast.
By the way, she was like kindof dinging me about it.
(06:28):
Like sis, we really need toreach out to Lois.
She is so cool.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
So you were paired up with Coach Blair and I remember
her posting in our groupcongrats, lois, just under
contract on her first flip 90days in.
Like you are the poster childright, you're following the
process.
You're a great student.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
I am very coachable, I'm very teachable, which has
served me well in my life andreally I mean, again, I knew I
didn't know everything but Ifelt very comfortable on the
numbers side and the financingside because that's my
background.
So I mean, and I understandvery comfortable on the numbers
side and the financing sidebecause that's my background.
So I mean, and I understandfinancial statements, I
understand balance sheets, I getall that.
So that's one thing that Ididn't struggle with, right,
(07:14):
Like I already felt, like I hadthat in my back pocket.
So a few little kind of likeserendipity things happened to
me in the very beginning.
I did go to a real estateinvestment network event and you
know, again, I was, I wasscared, but I went there.
It was a luncheon and andsomebody asked me, like you know
, where do you fit in here?
And I took a deep breath and Isaid I'm an investor and like
(07:38):
nobody said really how many,like nobody cared, everybody was
like okay, great, you know,like so that was kind of one of
those where it's like, you know,even though I hadn't bought my
first flip yet, I was like thatthat's all right, like you don't
, you don't have to come in witha resume and a like a portfolio
.
You just show up and say thisis me and ask questions and and
(07:59):
again.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yeah, because I didn't die, it was all right.
You didn't die, but did you die?
Yeah that you didn't die, butdid you die?
Yeah, that's probably one of myfavorite jokes, right and we're
all so worried about.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Oh my God, people are going to question me and not
believe me and like nobody cares, right, everybody is there to
figure out stuff for themselves,and no different than me.
So it was, you know, it was allgreat.
So so, through that, I thenjoined their Facebook group and
I noticed like a wholesaler outthere whose name was really
familiar, and this wholesaler,who worked for new Western at
(08:34):
the time, both my kids are musicmajors.
So funny, funny coincidence, hewas a clinician for one of my
son's band camps at ECU.
Oh small world.
So, like many musicians, he'snow in real estate.
But I reached out to him and wewere like OMG, OMG.
(08:57):
So it was this wild, crazyconnection.
But I felt like that was kindof the world kind of pushing me
to like it's going to be okay.
You already know somebody outthere and that's who I purchased
my first flip through.
I purchased it through awholesaler, through this
gentleman who you know again,former music connection, now
real estate connection.
(09:17):
Yeah, and, and I felt like Imean new Western guys and the
wholesalers in general can getaggressive and you have to know
your stuff.
And I felt like I knew my stuffand I also felt like I felt
comfortable with him, right, Ifelt like he wasn't going to let
me get into anything that Ishouldn't be into.
So, and through him, like hewould send me stuff and I
(09:39):
learned how to evaluate a flipand do a deal and do a DA and
pull some comps in like 15minutes, like I cause I would
look at these on my I wasworking full time, you know, so
I was looking at these on mylunch break, you know I'd be
kind of like.
Hey, I can look at this at noontoday.
If you think it's going to goby then, then forget it, I'm out
.
Right, I can either look at itat 12 o'clock or at five o'clock
.
You know, it was kind of likeand that's what I would do.
(10:02):
I would just, I would rapidfire these, these slips that
would come through, so I would,and I quickly realized that most
of them didn't fit for me,right, I was like.
I learned that their numberswere too tight and now he's
since moved on to like his own.
He's doing his own real estatesale stuff and occasional flips.
But now I have a new Westernguy and I told him up front.
I said I'm like you know yourmodel typically isn't going to
(10:24):
fit for me.
You know I'm like, but if youfind something I'd be happy to
run the numbers Anything near NCState or anything near the
beach.
That's what I told him.
I'm like, if you've gotsomething there I'd love to run
the numbers.
But I was very clear that beachagain, exactly, yeah.
Someday I need a beach house,right, so it would be great if I
found it as a flip.
(10:44):
But yeah, doesn't everybody.
Yeah, exactly, exactly so.
Yeah, that was when I got myfirst flip was through him,
awesome.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
So what was purchase price on your first flip?
What was renovation budget,timeline, arv, that sort of
stuff?
How did it start?
Where did it wind up?
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Yeah, so upfront.
I mean, I learned a lot throughthis.
It was a pre foreclosure and itwas.
It was presented as it justneeds new kitchen appliances and
like a little bit of cleaning,right, yeah, right, not exactly.
So that again a great learningexperience for me.
(11:22):
So I purchased it at $165,000.
It was projected to sell atabout $215,000.
And I thought that was veryconservative, and luckily it was
.
And it was presented as oh, itneeds like $10,000 into it, Okay
, and it was presented as morelike a whole tale.
Well, I learned quickly nothingonly takes $10,000.
(11:43):
Okay.
And it was presented as as morelike a whole tale.
Well, I learned quickly,nothing only takes 10 grand.
There's no, it's like newcarpet, right.
Again, I learned, I'm alwaysgoing to repaint the whole thing
and I'm probably going toreplace, or you're always going
to replace carpet and you know,and this, this didn't need you
know.
It was kind of presented as oh,just paint the kitchen cabinets
.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
(12:06):
So for starters, like again, itwas a pre foreclosure, so it
was really it was.
It had a sad story.
Like as soon as I showed up,all the neighbors swarmed over,
like that was a really good feelgood moment.
They were like, yeah, thank God,like there's, this has been
(12:27):
such a distressing house, we'rereally glad somebody has
purchased it.
You know it was the only notnice house on the block and it
just.
You know it was a bad situation.
There was some, you know, childand family services have been
called.
There was some addiction.
There'd been some bad stuff youknow so you know, and that's one
of those things where it's likethis was once a well-loved
house and things happened, youknow, and I was really glad to
come in there and love it again,you know, and and bring it, you
(12:50):
know, and show it some love andand find it, find a new family
for it, you know.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
So give that house a chance at a new story.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Exactly exactly.
So.
For starters, it was much, muchmore full of debris.
It took two dumpsters to cleanit out.
And and then, like the, within24 hours, the boyfriend who had
been living there, like thewoman who owned it, turned in
her keys to the title company.
Again, it was a pre-foreclosure.
She's like, and all she wanted.
(13:19):
Like, as I purchased it, shewas going to get like five grand
out of it, you know, and, andthat was, she needed five grand
to move on to turn in the keys.
Well, the boyfriend showed upand ripped the garage door off
the hinges to get into the houseand get some things.
So, like, my contractor wasthere that morning and he's like
, oh, this just happened.
I'm like, just let him take hisstuff and go like, let's just
(13:42):
move on.
So right away, I'm buying a newgarage door, right and again.
So that renovation budget wasnot 10,000.
That renovation budget was30,000 by the time we were done.
And again I learned.
I learned a lot of reallyimportant things, like you know,
number one I trusted and I'mnot saying my wholesaler steered
(14:02):
me wrong Like this.
That was, I should have gonethrough there and walked it
myself.
I did not.
I trusted, I trusted his.
You know his opinion.
And again, from when he walkedthrough it to when I purchased
it, it was only a few days butit had.
It had changed since the firstpictures to what it was and I
should have been there pokingaround more.
So I mean, I wound up replacingthe kitchen cabinets.
(14:24):
I wound up replacing the toilet, the vanity.
I wound up, you know, againrepainting everything new carpet
.
It wound up having to have newwindows, oh wow.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
So, but through all this, luckily the contractor
working on it was great.
He was reasonable as we workedthrough this process.
Working on it was great.
He was reasonable as we workedthrough this process.
You know there were a couple ofthings that he missed that he
later repaired for free becausehis, his thing was like one-stop
shopping, you know, forinvestors.
I'm going to tell you it's thisprice, I'm going to fix these
things and we're going to moveon.
And since there were a coupleof things he missed, he came in
(14:55):
and took care of those at nocost.
So that was, that was great,you know, and again, there's
things that we couldn't haveforeseen.
I mean, they're again the personbreaking in and I'm needing to
put on a new grass shore, right,I know that, you know.
So you know it is what it isand and I learned a lot of
things through that.
So, and again I learned, like abasic like I'm never going to
(15:16):
flip a property with 10 grand inever.
That, not that's.
And honestly, like I'm notgoing to do that.
If I could even get away withit, I'm not comfortable.
Like I don't want to lipstickanything.
I want to do what needs to bedone.
So that is going to slim downthe properties.
That are options for me, andthat's okay.
(15:37):
Like I don't ever want to justput lipstick on it and scoot it
along.
So, again, very good learningopportunities for me to
understand where I want to be inthis whole market, right.
So I wound up breaking even onit.
Luckily, I was able to sell itfor $225 instead of $215, which
is good.
I did have one buyer, I mean Idid.
(15:58):
So things I learned I willalways stage a property.
I mean I was kind, so things Ilearned.
I will always stage a property.
I mean I was kind of like man.
It's like $2,500 to stage thisthing.
But I knew I'm like I'm notgoing to be able to sleep at
night unless I am reallypresenting this in the best way
that it can be presented.
And that meant stage and youknow what, holy shnikes Talking
(16:19):
about a makeover?
I mean the contractor gave it amakeover.
I did a lot of the paintingmyself, which I told myself I
will never lift a paintbrushagain.
I am able to paint.
I'm not going to paint anymoreand I am able to do some.
I am able to replace lightfixtures.
I'm not going to do that.
(16:40):
I am able to replace outletsand light switches.
I'm not going to do that everagain.
Like I'm no, I will.
I'm going to have a contract todo that.
Just because I'm, just becauseI can, Doesn't mean that.
I should Right Exactly so.
But I got to the point becausethis was running over budget.
Those were the choices I had tomake to keep it in any sort of
a breakeven situation.
So so those were things that Idid to keep it within.
(17:03):
Well, keep it within itsoverrun budget, okay so, and I
did.
I had one buyer come in.
You know, initially I wasn'tgoing to replace the windows.
Their inspector gave them allthis fear.
They're like, oh my gosh, thisis just a lipstick thing.
No, it's not, you know.
So anyway, they backed out.
But here in North Carolina youhave due diligence money that if
(17:25):
they pull out, I get to keepthat.
So I kept that, and then thathelped offset the cost.
I want to just like.
Even my realtor was saying,well, you could just replace the
glass in these windows.
I'm like, no, we're just goingto do new windows, like it.
Just why put new glass inwindows that are borderline?
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Like I'm just going to do this.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
So again, and I again I can sleep better at night by
doing that.
So we did all that stuff and itwas all good.
So, yeah it, it wound up beinga break even, you know.
But again I learned a ton ofthings and I flipped my first
house.
I mean, how cool is that?
I mean I, you know, I rememberat one point, like cause I was
kind of like, you know, kind ofsomewhat doubting myself at one
point in the process and I thinkI had kind of posted my fears
(18:04):
in the group and you flipped thehouse, right, you did the thing
right, you did the thing right.
Crap, you're right.
And I did you die.
I did not die, and you know, Idid not die and I my and after
pictures and I had such like awarm fuzzy feeling.
(18:28):
I had this warm fuzzy feelinglike look at what this was and
look at what it became and howhappy the neighbors were, and
also both houses that I'veflipped, I've wound up having
like these amazing supportiveneighbors, like both, both
situations.
I had a neighbor who would likecall me, like hey, lois,
there's a red truck here, andI'd be like it's okay, it's the
guy mowing the lawn, you know.
Or he's like hey, somebody'swalking by.
The other day I ran him off.
I'm like thank you, whichthat's invaluable, because I
(18:53):
mean that house was about 45minutes.
It was about a 45 minute driveso I couldn't be there quickly.
My second flip was like a 10minute drive.
That was a lot easier for me tojust swing by.
But in both scenarios I hadneighbors who were, who just
like kind of took me under theirwing and appointed themselves
as the eyes and ears of thehouse and that was really great.
So just knowing what I had done, what this process had done for
(19:16):
that neighborhood, for thathouse, and and the other thing
that I loved was putting myselfin the, in the foot, in the
shoes of the buyer, like who'sgoing to buy this house?
You know, I'm like it's in agreat, it had great, great
school system.
So I'm like this is going toprobably and it was very close
to a military base I'm likethere's going to be a military
family, probably with young kidswho's there's probably going to
be their, their first home, andthat's exactly what it was.
(19:38):
So walking in there andchoosing, like paint colors,
choosing appliances, choosingcabinetry, choosing carpet,
choosing all these things, withthat mindset of here's, I'm a
new home buyer with young kids.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
What do I want?
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Yeah, and that was really fun.
And then I also really enjoythinking of it that way.
I felt like I was spendingsomeone else's money.
So I like that too.
You would want this and youwould want to pay this for it,
so I'm going to buy that for you.
So that was another really neatthing that happened.
But again, even though I didn'tmake money on the deal, it was
(20:13):
an amazing experience.
Again, I didn't die.
I faced some fears, I made somegreat decisions and and, and I
wanted to do another one.
Like that's another thing.
Like I, there are certainthings that I know I do not want
to do in this process.
I do not want to be aresidential realtor period.
That's not anything thatappeals to me.
If I had to do that, I wouldnot flip another house.
(20:35):
That's just not my thing.
That's not my thing.
So I have, through this process, I found an amazing realtor who
I've worked with.
She sold that flip for me, shehelped me purchase and sell my
second flip and I run stuff byher all the time and she runs
stuff by me, I mean.
So it's been a greatpartnership.
She understands investment, andwhat I love about her is she
(20:57):
takes care of all the realtorstuff that I want no part of.
When she calls me, she'll belike, hey, this just happened
and here's two options and Ithink we should do this and I
say sounds good.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Great realtor, and I'm with you.
Oh my gosh, I want nothing todo with getting my license ever.
I want to flip the house.
I want to manage the project.
I want to manage the house.
I want to manage the project.
I want to manage the budget.
I want to do all of thosethings.
I do not want to deal withbuyers, I do not want to be, you
know, on that end of it and Idon't want to be scheduling
(21:33):
showings.
None of that, I don't want anyof that when.
I'm done flipping the house.
I want to be done with it.
I want to get it off.
And you know what?
My agent is very similar.
She handles things.
She calls me.
This is what happened.
Here's option A.
Here's option B.
I like option A better and I'mlike sounds good to me.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
How easy is that?
I know it's the best thing.
I mean it's just yeah, I'm.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
And I don't have to pay licensing fees, I don't have
to do continuing ed classes, Imean honestly, I like the course
content.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Like I, if I could, I'd be a professional student,
right, I love learning stuff.
I would be all over that.
But yeah, that's the part Idon't want to deal with.
Like I know, on that first flipmy wholesale agent was like
he's like you know you could dofor sale by owner.
And I said I'd rather gouge myeyeballs out.
I'm like I want no part of that.
You know I said so.
What I pay in realtorcommission is worth every penny,
(22:26):
and you know that's what I likedoing.
Like I say, I am happily goingto pay someone to put in outlets
, light switches, paint andlight fixtures, Yep, and sell
the house and sell the house,yeah, and when you figure those
things in in the beginning.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
No-transcript.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Immediately.
It was immediately as in, likeI was under contract on the
second, while the first one wasunder contract to be sold, and I
told my realtor I'm like justto be clear, because I actually
financed the first flipcompletely on my home equity
Okay, so I had enough of a homeequity line to not worry about a
hard money lender, so so thatwas nice.
(23:29):
However, that tied up my wholehome equity line.
So I was like I don't reallywant to do that again and again,
if I'm, I realized if I'm doingthat, I'm reaching for the deal
too much, right?
Yes, doing that, I'm reachingfor the deal too much, right?
Yes, I don't, I shouldn't.
You know I'm, I'm reaching toomuch, I don't I should.
I should be doing deals that Ican price differently, where I
(23:50):
can use a hard money lender,right?
So that is what I did on mysecond deal.
So my second deal was actuallyan MLS deal and my agent found
it, I mean.
So I decided at that point I'mlike I really don't want to be
driving an hour away to work ona flip.
You know, I am more comfortabledoing something in my backyard,
and there's enough in mybackyard that I should be able
to find that.
So my next flip was also in Cary.
(24:11):
It was like five miles awayfrom my house, so that was Nice.
So we looked at a few and againmy agent is investor-friendly
and she was kind of like here'sa few options.
And I ran the numbers and I waslike, okay, I like this one.
So it had been a rental forlike 30 years, like nothing had
really been updated on it.
(24:34):
It had a really small, crummykitchen.
It was in a great area, okay,but a really gross.
It would have really weirdfirst floor layout and it just
needed.
It needed a lot of love.
But again, had had greatpotential, great area, and
people were scared of it becausethere were some foundation
issues.
And that was a great learningexperience.
I learned to not be afraid offoundation issues because you
(24:56):
know, but in the meantime,before before I got to that
point, I'd had a couple what'sthe term?
Foundation guys that, oh,structural engineers yes, yes, I
had a couple of those.
I think I had three come outand give me opinions and in the
meantime I was factoring inabout a $30,000 cost to repair
the foundation, to fix thefoundation issues.
(25:17):
But really, I mean most of themsaid you know well, you can ram
, jack it up.
That's like 26 grand.
And then another guy was likeoh, I think it'd be about 20
grand.
And the third guy said he's like, he's like these cracks.
He's like these are.
He's like yes, they're cracksin your foundation.
He's like, but these are morecosmetic issues.
He's like the issue, I think,is the drainage, the water
(25:37):
runoff, because there were nogutters on the house so the
water had been just pouring nextto the foundation and you know
and stuff like that happensaround here.
So as far as like the soil anddrainage and stuff, and he said
he's like I think the problem isthe drainage.
He's like I think you putgutters on it and then I think
you have, you know, frenchdrains running from the gutters
to well away from the foundation.
He's like I think that's yourfix.
(25:58):
He's like I think you patch thefoundation.
He's like I think that actuallycorrects the problem.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
So that's what I did, and I've actually yeah, I've
actually worked on several flipswith bad foundations, and 90%
of the time it's a waterdrainage issue and, yes,
sometimes the foundation alsoneeds to be fixed.
But it's not the end of theworld, and once you can take
care of that water, thedeterioration stops.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Yes, so my engineer agreed.
My engineer recommended that,signed off on it.
I had a guy come out and takecare of it, so that wound up
being more like a $6,000 dealthan a $30,000 deal.
By that time I was alreadyunder contract, assuming I would
pay $30,000 in foundation.
Okay.
So that was a plus.
However, there's more to thestory, but anyway that that
(26:50):
helped me understand again, thathelped me find an engineer who
I trusted.
It helped me find, like youknow, again a foundation guy who
I trusted, and so again I'mbuilding my portfolio of
contractors that I trust, youknow.
Through it, you know, you findsomething that you like and
something you don't like.
So this, this again, is helpingme go through that process,
make phone calls, research itand educate myself, so so that
(27:11):
that all wound up great.
So I this was a really greatflip and it's on my little
Facebook page, but it's a reallygreat flip to show before and
after pictures.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
This is the one with the fireplace right, the big
tall.
Oh my gosh, I wish ourlisteners could see the pictures
.
It is amazing.
It's this beautiful accent wall, black accent wall, that goes
all the way to this, like loftedor vaulted ceiling, and and
it's just this big black.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
Oh, it's just beautiful, it is the coolest
that the kitchen went from beingthis really gross, strange
kitchen to a beautiful kitchen,right.
So it was just I.
I love the befores and aftersof that, so so, um, so I knew I
was going to even when I boughtit.
I'm like we need to open upthis kitchen.
There's things that can be done.
Luckily, I have a great friendwho I've little side note I, for
(28:03):
probably 15 years, I had my owncustom window treatment
business, so I worked with aninterior designer.
Oddly enough, we both moved fromSt Louis to Raleigh right
around the same time, so we'veknown each other for forever.
And so when I need to do anysort of, you know, typically if
I'm doing like color selection,even you know, flooring, carpet
(28:23):
paint, I'll have her do it,because she just knows.
And then I just do what shesays and it always looks
gorgeous.
And then she drew a couple offloor plans for me on this
because she quickly, you know,because I was like let's just
knock all this out.
And she's like, well, there'san HVAC stack here that and I
talked to my I found a greatHVAC guy too.
He's like we can't.
(28:45):
He's like I've looked all over,he's like we can't move that
that's got to stay there.
So we knew it couldn't be asopen as I would like, but it was
open enough.
So anyway, omg, this is amazing.
I'm like.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
I want to do this one yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
So so that's what we worked on.
So I had also, so I had acontractor.
I had two or three differentcontractors bid the bid, all the
improvements, cause it neededeverything, right, it needed new
doors, it needed new molding,it needed new baseboards, it
needed a new carpet, needed newLVP needed, like the staircase
needed some work.
It needed everything.
(29:17):
So I am quickly learning thatif I go into a house like that,
I'm probably I mean, we'retalking 80 to 100,000 period.
So that's really helped me lookand honestly, I like that space
, I like knowing I got toreplace everything period.
I would rather have that thanwell, I think I only need to
replace this, but oops, I got todo that and that's another
10,000, right, I would ratherhave that than well, I think I
(29:37):
only need to replace this, butoops, I got to do that and
that's another 10,000, right,I'd rather say I got to do it
all and again, then I canpresent a house that's every
that, everything's new.
You know there's no question ofwell, you should have done the
windows.
I did the windows, I did thisand I had a roof inspection and
I did the gutters and I did thatand I, you know, it's just just
, I would rather I sleep betterat night doing that and I want
(29:58):
to buy projects in that space ata price that I can do that.
So I I had my contractor that Iworked with before he gave me a
bid and I just felt like Iwasn't.
I had this gut feeling.
I'm like I don't know if he'sgoing to give me the finish that
I need for this area.
Maybe he would have.
I mean we could have talkedmore, but I mean I just I wasn't
(30:21):
comfortable.
I had another couple that werelike way out of the ballpark and
I'm like just no, that's justno.
Like this isn't my home, thisis an investment property.
You know, there is that, thatbalance, right.
I mean we need something nice,but it doesn't need to be like
what I would put in my house,right?
So then I picked a contractor inthe middle and this contractor
(30:42):
I had he'd gone on and looked atsome other flips with me.
He came recommended by arealtor and one of my real
estate investment network groupsand I expected him to be fine.
So, yeah, so another learningexperience, okay.
So he got off to us, you know,and there were things Okay.
So also, you know, the contractwasn't as strong as Flip
(31:07):
Sisters would recommend, it beOkay.
But I felt like I knew him wellenough.
I felt like it was good enough.
I didn't know him well enoughand it was not because and there
were some questions.
I was kind of like this is alittle bit weird, but you know,
yeah, yeah, I should havetrusted that gut feeling Right
(31:28):
Um so anyway, he got started andyou know, I gave him.
He got started.
I gave him some deposits.
Then he was like, hey, I needdeposits for the cabinets and
for this, and that I gave himsome deposits.
Then he was like, hey, I needdeposits for the cabinets and
for this, and that I gave himsome more money and ultimately
he disappeared.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So ultimately I wound up havingto sue him.
I did get a judgment againsthim, so that's great, but he's
(31:53):
he's ran off to Brazil, which iswhere he's from.
I have this judgment againsthim, but I I'll never see a dime
of that money, Right, so sothat stinks, but you know what?
Okay, so silver lining, Iactually looked at, I looked at
like subbing out the rest of itmyself, that was, and I did, I
did all the flooring myself.
(32:13):
I'm capable of that.
I found I found a great windowguy.
That was a silver lining, agreat window guy that he does
only windows.
So he's like next flip, he'slike call me, I'll replace your
windows Very reasonable, likeI'll use him on windows for
every flip that I do, you know.
Again, I found I already had agreat flooring place.
That was great.
But I found a new contractorwho is amazing.
(32:37):
Right, it's a husband wife team.
She's basically the projectmanager, he's the general
contractor.
They were fabulous.
They came in and and did anunbelievable job.
So, you know, did my costs go up?
Yep, yeah, but you know in inpart.
So that was one where it's likeI, I thought I I didn't think I
(32:59):
needed to.
Again, there's a window thing.
I didn't feel like I needed toreplace the windows on that, but
my contractor who left paid itover the windows.
Yeah, so that became a okay.
Now I got to replace thewindows.
So there's $7,000 I didn'taccount for, you know.
So, anyway, and I also wound upholding the project longer
because I thought it was.
(33:19):
I accounted for six months, itwound up being nine months.
So, uh, holding costs go up alot when you're using hard money
and you're paying extensionfees.
Yeah, those went up a lot.
And then, ultimately, the marketshifted a bit.
I wasn't selling it in April,which is the hottest time to
sell.
I was selling it in August, soso I wound up selling it for
(33:40):
15,000 less than I expected.
So you know, all those things,um, I'm actually waiting for my
accountant to tell me preciselywhat the loss was on that.
But yeah, so it was not.
It's you know, luckily it wasn'tas much of a loss as it could
have been because I had, youknow, allocated well for that
foundation issue.
I was also concerned I wasgoing to have to replace HVAC
(34:02):
and I didn't need to do that,like what I thought.
The HVAC wasn't working when wewent in.
So I'm like, all right, 10grand for that.
That turned out to be like$1,500.
So I luckily had some reallygood things to offset that.
So it could have been a biggerloss than it was.
But I mean, I bought it at 300.
I sold it at 485 initially andI thought I was going to sell it
(34:25):
at 500.
I thought it was going to beabout 80,000 to renovation.
It was over 120,000 renovation.
You know, part of that was paidto the guy who ran off with my
deposit.
Um, and then my carrying costswent again.
I held it not six months, Iheld it nine months.
So so that and again that onceI once I really looked at the
numbers as I was turning thatinto my account and I was like,
(34:45):
oh, no wonder I have thisbalance on my home.
I could have cut it line yeah,yeah, yeah.
So that was, that was I.
That was not a break even lossyeah, mostly because of the
carrying cost.
But again, I mean that aside,it was an amazing before and
after.
I found a great window guy.
I found a great contractor.
(35:07):
I mean I honestly can't wait towork with that contractor again.
So also, I didn't pursueanything else since last fall
because I decided to go back tograd school.
So I'm getting my master's inaccounting, so that started in
August.
So the good thing is that,luckily, I've gotten to know
(35:27):
myself well enough that I mean Ialways put more on my plate
than I can handle.
But even I knew, like Lois, youcannot do a flip right now,
like you're working full timeand you're going to grad school.
You need to back off.
And I did Right.
So now I have the summer open,so now I am going to start.
Now I am.
I am really, um, I have neverdone much of a like a male
(35:49):
campaign, but I realized that'swhere it's at.
Going straight to the sellers,that's where it's at and that's
what I am planning to activelypursue Driving around, picking
out houses, doing the lists,marketing that way.
That's the way to go.
So, that's what I plan to dogoing forward is to really focus
on my mailing campaign and seewhat that, see what that,
(36:12):
because I think that'll be.
I think that's going to bereally lucrative.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
So, yeah, you're looking to find your next flip.
I mean, yeah, yeah, break evenon the first, probably losing
some money on the second, right,yeah, and you're still looking
to do your next flip because youhave lessons learned.
Yes, yes, contracts, contracts,contracts are super important,
(36:35):
right, yes, yes, purchase pricethat purchase price is really,
really important.
Getting those inspections andthose contractor estimates
before you get in, you know, nottesting those wholesaler
numbers, all those things, yes,yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
And I know they're not all going to be wins right.
I mean that's the reality.
So hey, I've gotten a breakeven and a loss.
I'm due for some wins.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Yeah, yeah, and I've learned so much Like I've
learned enough right?
Speaker 3 (37:04):
I think I will be in a space to have those wins.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
So yeah, and I think you've had a ton of wins.
Yes, what is your favorite partof the entire flip process?
Speaker 3 (37:17):
Putting myself in the buyer's shoes and saying this
is what I want.
That's my favorite part.
So again, I have, you know,having done, you know, been in
the window treatment.
You know interior design.
I mean I am not a designer, youknow, but just kind of being in
that space I have a good eyefor, like, does it have good
bones right?
And I know also again, like,does it have good bones Right
(37:38):
and have it.
And I know also, again, staging, staging, staging.
Like I know, when I'm done witha flip, people walk in and
they're like, oh my gosh, likethis is amazing.
The other great thing about thatsecond one being right in my
backyard I hosted my own littlesocial open house, so I had my
hard money lender came by.
I had a couple of realtors comeby.
I had some some neighborhoodfriends come by.
(37:58):
So I had my hard money lendercame by.
I had a couple of realtors comeby.
I had some some neighborhoodfriends come by, so I had people
come by and that also kind ofhelps spread the word about this
is what I'm doing on the side.
You know, if you know, you knowso that I felt like it was a
really good little marketingopportunity and just also like a
feel good thing, Like it gaveme a chance to kind of show off
what I was doing, thing Like itgave me a chance to kind of show
off what I was doing.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Build those relationships, build those
relationships A hundred percent.
Do you have any?
Speaker 3 (38:30):
limiting beliefs or mindset, obstacles that are
different now than when youstarted.
I mean, I've gotten rid of alot of the limiting ones.
Do I have new ones that exist?
Yes.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
I love that you can't think of any.
I really can't, I can't.
You guys have been so good.
You guys have been so good.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
I mean, I feel like the sky's the limit, right?
I mean, one thing that I havelearned is you know, again, I am
aware of my like, my scope,like again.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
I can't.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
I was even having a day yesterday where again, I'm
in between jobs right now.
So my government job endedabout a week ago and I've been
looking for my next spot.
I've got some good responses.
I think something's coming soon.
But I had this moment yesterdaywhere I'm like I need to be a
commercial realtor, that's mynext move.
Okay, and I was all ready to goclick because I'm like I have
(39:19):
to get my licensing anyway,whether I'm residential or
commercial, but I licensinganyway, whether I'm residential
or commercial.
But I'm like, okay, I'll dothat right now.
It's like Lois, stop, I'm goingto grad school.
Okay, I've got other learningthings that I need to take care
of before my classes start inthe fall.
It's like you don't need totake that realtor stuff right
now.
Like if somebody is going toactually hire you, then great,
(39:39):
but right now I don't need to dothat today.
So just knowing, like, back off,finish the project in front of
you and focus on that and then,if you're bored, then absolutely
go do that.
So that's.
That is all of this, likerealizing my limitations,
understanding how much I can puton my plate and not driving
(40:00):
myself crazy Like those cause Ican.
I can do a lot, but even I willstill overload that.
So having that self-awarenesslike you need to draw the line
here that has been great becauseI yeah, then I can do things
effectively and efficiently andI'm not making myself crazy.
So, yeah, those that's really,that's really what has.
Those are things that I'veactually been able to do here in
(40:23):
the last year is to say I can'tdo another one right now.
I can't do this right now, butyou know what, in four months I
can.
So it's okay, just wait till Ican take it on and then I can do
it well.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Yeah yeah.
Your mindset is indescribable,right?
Like, what do you do on a dailybasis to keep your mindset so
positive and so likeself-reflective and also not
beating yourself up?
That's a balance, right?
How do you?
How do you balance that?
(40:54):
Well, it's taken a long time.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
No, I look for the good, you know, I look for the
positives.
I mean, now, am I, am I likethat a hundred percent of the
time?
No, there are days where I'mlike groveling and beating
myself up, but those days noware few and far between and I've
learned like there's plenty ofother people in the world that
might beat me up.
I don't need to beat myself up,like let them do it.
I don't need to be in thatspace.
(41:19):
I need.
I've learned you know there'sthere's a couple you know, like
reels that I've seen.
I need to talk nicely to myselfand what I say to myself
matters, and so I've gotten alot better at that.
And again, just looking at thepositives and believing that the
world wants good things for meand good things are going to
(41:39):
happen, and it might be down aweird, uncomfortable path but
it's good for you, you know Imean, and that that really helps
.
I mean, again, right now I'munemployed.
That's really scary.
I'm, I'm a single mom with twokids in college.
That's scary, but I have tobelieve, you know, and I I like
(41:59):
to be able to see the path aheadof me.
I can't see that path right now, so I just have to walk forward
and wait for that path toreveal itself.
And, you know, and that's justjust trust the process and and
not do anything really dumb.
I mean now, now is not the timeto go to go do expensive
(42:20):
vacations.
Right now is not the time tobuy a flip without a lot of
great research, right?
I mean, I know where I'm at.
I know, you know, I've, I've,really I knew this unemployment
was looming.
You know, probably I've reallyhoned by, fine tune my spending.
I'm very well aware of what mycosts are and what it takes.
And, and again, you know, worstcase, I sell my house and I
(42:41):
downsize.
You know I'm not opposed tothat.
You know I don't think that'sgoing to have to happen, but
always so think positive andhave an exit strategy.
You know, you've got a plan.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
You've got a plan, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
Yeah, so that's what does it.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
Lois, this has been an absolute roller coaster for
me, because I'll be.
I had no idea coming into thisconversation where you ended up
on these flips, and so I hadthis whole roller coaster with
you the entire time and it wasan amazing ride.
Speaker 3 (43:13):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
And I am so honored that you're willing to share all
the real stuff with us todayand to be vulnerable and be open
about it and share thoselessons that you learned,
because that's hard right.
And sharing your mindset, likesharing your positive outlook,
your willingness to speak kindlyto yourself and keep moving
(43:37):
forward, and even though thepath isn't always clear, I think
that's really important.
Yeah, and that's what's goingto make you a successful real
estate investor.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
Thank you.
Yeah, I mean I've loved thejourney so far.
I'm thrilled to talk about it.
Like I said earlier, I'm like,I love to talk about me.
Call me anytime for a podcast.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
They don't love to talk about themselves.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
right, exactly, and yeah, if I can save some.
I mean I know certain thingslike you know.
You can have people tell youthings and sometimes you've just
got to do it to really learnthe lesson.
But I mean you know, if, if anyof my you know successes or
failures are helpful, I am, I'mglad I could share them and I
hope they help somebody so.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, thank you for that.
Is there anything else that youwould like people out there to
know before we leave for the day?
Speaker 1 (44:27):
Is there anything we?
Speaker 3 (44:27):
didn't cover that you'd like to talk about.
I mean, I'm doing things today,in my 50s, that if you had told
me decades ago I would be doing, I would have said there's no
way I'm going to do that.
And you're crazy, you know,just in Marching bands.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
I'm going to plug that.
Marching bands.
Speaker 3 (44:45):
So let me talk about that.
So yeah, as I, as I enrolled ingrad school, both my kids are
music majors and and our, ourlove of marching band really
flourished once they got intohigh school marching band.
And I'm a student at NC stateuniversity and when I, when I
enrolled, I thought to myself Iwonder if I can be in the
marching band.
And I was.
I was the marching band kid asa high schooler and I was
(45:09):
actually a music major my firsttwo years of college, 35 years
ago.
So I still, you know, there's,there's that.
So I called band director and Isaid hey, you know, as a
non-traditional student, am Ieligible to be in the marching
band?
And he said you've got to passthe audition, but sure.
So I practiced my French hornall summer, last summer, and I
(45:30):
submitted an audition tape and Igot in.
It has been the best experienceand it's been so fun.
And, yes, I am 35 years olderthan everyone else in that band
and it was great.
I mean, who gets to go back anddo that kind of stuff?
Speaker 2 (45:45):
Right Look at you out there doing, doing these
non-traditional things, scarythings, intimidating things,
right, but also thrilling andfun.
Speaker 3 (45:56):
I would imagine it's been so fun.
I mean, again, I I'm uncertainwhat my job situation is, but I
right now I am enrolled to goback this fall, so hopefully my,
my job situation will allow meto do that.
And, um, and I mean I'm so gladI did it, I'm so glad that I'm
doing these.
You know wild and crazy thingsand it's so fun.
And yeah, don't, don't give upon yourself, you know.
(46:19):
I mean ask the questions, giveit a shot and see where it goes.
You know, and I mean certainlyprepare.
I mean I, I didn't just get offthe couch and do college
marching band.
I mean I was.
I was a runner, I was in goodshape, I knew I would have to be
it's very physical and I knewthe only way I was able to do it
was because I was in goodphysical shape, I mean.
(46:40):
But you know it was, um, youknow, all all these things just
kind of came together to to helpme do these things.
I mean I'm I'm also an ultrarunner.
If you'd have told me 30 yearsago that I would do that, I
would have told you.
You are crazy.
I am not an athlete and Iwasn't an athlete until I was
like in my mid forties I was notat all.
I mean not at all, and I'vedone all these crazy athletic
(47:04):
things.
So it's it's amazing whathappens if you just take a
little steps forward.
You know you'd be shocked atwhat might happen if you do that
.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
So I love that Great that's.
That's an amazing place to endit today.
So thanks for being here withme today.
I have enjoyed this thoroughlyand I can't wait to share all of
this with all of our listenersout there, and I can't wait to
see you get your next flip.
So please, please, please, makesure and stay engaged in the
(47:35):
Facebook group with us.
Speaker 3 (47:36):
We want to know what you're up to and you've got that
coaching.
So sounds good, great.
Thank you so much.
I'm delighted to share my storyand I can't wait to share
future adventures.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
Huge thank you to Lois for showing up with such
honesty and grit today.
Your candor reminds us thatit's not about having a perfect
story.
It's about owning your journeyand showing up anyway Around
here.
We don't chase perfection andshowing up anyway Around here.
We don't chase perfection.
No, we chase progress, learning, grid and that magical combo of
tenacity and self-reflectionthat keeps us moving forward,
(48:12):
even when the road gets messyand, let's be real, it usually
does.
This community, it's 100% builton support and non-judgment.
Our goal is for you to do yourfirst flip in a way that makes
you want to do it again.
Whether you're crushing yourfifth flip or have zero
experience in real estate, youbelong here.
If today lit a spark or evenjust cracked open the door, come
(48:37):
join us at theflipsisterscom.
We've got tools, training and awhole squad of women ready to
cheer you on.
Until next time, keep showingup, keep learning and remember
you don't have to do itperfectly, you just have to do
it.
Catch you soon.
You're listening to the Flip Houses Like a Girl
podcast, where we educate,empower and celebrate everyday
women who are facing their fears, juggling family and business,
embracing their awesomeness andwholeheartedly chasing their
dream of flipping houses.
Each episode delivershonest-to-goodness tools, tips
(00:21):
and strategies you can implementtoday to get closer to your
first or next successful houseflip.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Hey there, welcome back to Flip Houses.
Like a Girl, I'm Sis Donnelly,a real estate investor coach and
proud member of this amazingcommunity for nearly six years
now.
Today's episode is a wild ridein the best way possible.
Our guest, lois, took us on arollercoaster journey full of
twists, turns and totaltransformation.
(00:55):
She's opening up about thepowerful mindset shifts that
helped her push past fear, takeaction and grow in ways that she
never expected.
We're talking real talk, realhouses, real breakthroughs.
And she's not done yet.
Lois shares what's next on herjourney and, trust me, you're
going to want to hear it.
(01:16):
Be sure to listen all the wayto the end.
Lois drops some seriouslyvaluable lessons she's learned
along the way, and you'll hearhow the Flip Sisters community
has played a big role in herjourney.
Let's dive in.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
I'm Lois.
I live in Cary, north Carolina,which is right outside of
Raleigh.
Let's see why did I want to getstarted pooping houses?
My whole career has been inresidential mortgage and then
mostly commercial mortgage,small business financing.
So just in general, I likebuildings, I like houses, I like
real estate, I like financing,I like the math, I like figuring
(01:55):
out how it all fits togetherand all that kind of stuff.
So I've had a love for realestate investment for a long
time and have never actuallyparticipated because it was just
too scary, right.
I mean, I I knew I knew a lotof stuff, but I didn't know all
this stuff.
So it was almost on a whim whenI saw like the flip sister
(02:17):
stuff come up and I was like,ooh, I'd love to fix up old
houses, like I'd love to reallydo this, and here's a group
that's going to show me the wayand they look really cool.
So I joined.
You know there wasn't anenormous amount of research or
forethought that went into it,but I just went for it and
really the thing that impressedme the most is that as I started
(02:38):
I reached out.
I think the first person Italked to was Blair, or I don't
know if I talked to her.
We communicated somehow and andand she answered some questions
and the first thing I noticedwas that you weren't asking me
for money.
So I was like, hmm, well,that's cool.
And then, like the next timethere was a conversation and
again I don't remember if it wasemail or what the form of the
conversation was, but it wasanother thing where it's like
(03:00):
they do sound really great andthey're still not asking me for
money.
So I'm like all right, you knowthat that may be even more
interested in, in more feelinglike this is they're not just
trying to get a subscription,you know they're, they really
have an interest.
And that's that's exactly how Ifelt ever since then.
And and not to be like ashameless, like you know butt
kisser, but it's I mean I'vegotten nothing but support and
(03:24):
good things out of this group.
I love that.
So, yeah, that you know, and italso, like I mentioned before,
this kind of coincided with mereally kind of getting on my own
.
I'd gotten divorced and my kidswere getting a little older at
that.
When I did my first split theywere still.
I think they were still in highschool.
I think my son, my son waseither a senior in high school
(03:44):
or freshman in college, so theywere requiring a lot less
hands-on.
They were, you know, they hadreached a different stage in
life.
So it really worked out that Ihad the time and the energy to
do this and both my kids helpedon my first split.
They, you know each, you know.
My daughter especially, who wasthe younger of the two, was
great.
(04:04):
Like I was able to say, hey,can you paint the edges of that
ceiling?
And she's like, yep, she justdid it, it was so cool to have
both of them involved in thatkind of thing, so that was great
.
So it was.
It was all just kind of likeyou know, kind of everything in
the universe leaning towardsperfect timing, and I was kind
of like you know, and I thoughtthings through.
(04:25):
I'm like, okay, this, this isscary, and you know what's,
what's the worst thing that canhappen, the worst thing that
could happen, is that I mightlose some money and I will be
okay, like I have earningcapacity.
You know, worse, worse, worsescenario, cause I use my home
equity line of credit for for my, you know, my I was my own hard
.
I used my home equity line ofcredit for my, you know, I was
(04:45):
my own private money lender.
I was, like you know, worst case, absolute worst case.
If I really got in trouble, Ican sell this house, I can pay
it off, I can move on, it's allgoing to be okay.
So that's what I had to kind ofkeep telling myself as I got
involved.
Like you know, it's okay tohave a healthy level of fear,
but I can't let that rule me.
And I also realized too thatI've always thought I was very
(05:08):
risk averse.
And I'm not risk averse.
I am very I'm very calculatedrisk friendly.
I'm not wild risk friendly, andthat was as I realized.
I'm like, if I understand thesituation and I've done the
numbers and I feel comfortablewith best and worst case, I'm
fine and I'm willing to takesome risk on you know.
(05:30):
So.
So that was kind of cool tofind out about myself, as I
really kind of dove in there.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
So you actually just made me have kind of a light
bulb moment, yeah, because Ihave always thought of risk
tolerance as being risk averseor risk friendly, and that was
it.
But you're right, there's thishuge spectrum, right.
Like not everybody is going tobe in the same.
You can't just define it as oneend or the other.
(05:56):
There's always going to be thisgray area where everybody falls
a little bit somewheredifferent, right, yeah?
Speaker 3 (06:03):
yeah, there's a lot of mitigating factors.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Yeah, 100%, 100%.
So you bought your first flippretty early on in the program.
You were 90 days in and youwere under contract on your
first flip and, yes, you werepaired up with Coach Blair.
She speaks very highly of you.
She was so excited for you todo this podcast.
By the way, she was like kindof dinging me about it.
(06:28):
Like sis, we really need toreach out to Lois.
She is so cool.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
So you were paired up with Coach Blair and I remember
her posting in our groupcongrats, lois, just under
contract on her first flip 90days in.
Like you are the poster childright, you're following the
process.
You're a great student.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
I am very coachable, I'm very teachable, which has
served me well in my life andreally I mean, again, I knew I
didn't know everything but Ifelt very comfortable on the
numbers side and the financingside because that's my
background.
So I mean, and I understandvery comfortable on the numbers
side and the financing sidebecause that's my background.
So I mean, and I understandfinancial statements, I
understand balance sheets, I getall that.
So that's one thing that Ididn't struggle with, right,
(07:14):
Like I already felt, like I hadthat in my back pocket.
So a few little kind of likeserendipity things happened to
me in the very beginning.
I did go to a real estateinvestment network event and you
know, again, I was, I wasscared, but I went there.
It was a luncheon and andsomebody asked me, like you know
, where do you fit in here?
And I took a deep breath and Isaid I'm an investor and like
(07:38):
nobody said really how many,like nobody cared, everybody was
like okay, great, you know,like so that was kind of one of
those where it's like, you know,even though I hadn't bought my
first flip yet, I was like thatthat's all right, like you don't
, you don't have to come in witha resume and a like a portfolio
.
You just show up and say thisis me and ask questions and and
(07:59):
again.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yeah, because I didn't die, it was all right.
You didn't die, but did you die?
Yeah that you didn't die, butdid you die?
Yeah, that's probably one of myfavorite jokes, right and we're
all so worried about.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Oh my God, people are going to question me and not
believe me and like nobody cares, right, everybody is there to
figure out stuff for themselves,and no different than me.
So it was, you know, it was allgreat.
So so, through that, I thenjoined their Facebook group and
I noticed like a wholesaler outthere whose name was really
familiar, and this wholesaler,who worked for new Western at
(08:34):
the time, both my kids are musicmajors.
So funny, funny coincidence, hewas a clinician for one of my
son's band camps at ECU.
Oh small world.
So, like many musicians, he'snow in real estate.
But I reached out to him and wewere like OMG, OMG.
(08:57):
So it was this wild, crazyconnection.
But I felt like that was kindof the world kind of pushing me
to like it's going to be okay.
You already know somebody outthere and that's who I purchased
my first flip through.
I purchased it through awholesaler, through this
gentleman who you know again,former music connection, now
real estate connection.
(09:17):
Yeah, and, and I felt like Imean new Western guys and the
wholesalers in general can getaggressive and you have to know
your stuff.
And I felt like I knew my stuffand I also felt like I felt
comfortable with him, right, Ifelt like he wasn't going to let
me get into anything that Ishouldn't be into.
So, and through him, like hewould send me stuff and I
(09:39):
learned how to evaluate a flipand do a deal and do a DA and
pull some comps in like 15minutes, like I cause I would
look at these on my I wasworking full time, you know, so
I was looking at these on mylunch break, you know I'd be
kind of like.
Hey, I can look at this at noontoday.
If you think it's going to goby then, then forget it, I'm out
.
Right, I can either look at itat 12 o'clock or at five o'clock
.
You know, it was kind of likeand that's what I would do.
(10:02):
I would just, I would rapidfire these, these slips that
would come through, so I would,and I quickly realized that most
of them didn't fit for me,right, I was like.
I learned that their numberswere too tight and now he's
since moved on to like his own.
He's doing his own real estatesale stuff and occasional flips.
But now I have a new Westernguy and I told him up front.
I said I'm like you know yourmodel typically isn't going to
(10:24):
fit for me.
You know I'm like, but if youfind something I'd be happy to
run the numbers Anything near NCState or anything near the
beach.
That's what I told him.
I'm like, if you've gotsomething there I'd love to run
the numbers.
But I was very clear that beachagain, exactly, yeah.
Someday I need a beach house,right, so it would be great if I
found it as a flip.
(10:44):
But yeah, doesn't everybody.
Yeah, exactly, exactly so.
Yeah, that was when I got myfirst flip was through him,
awesome.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
So what was purchase price on your first flip?
What was renovation budget,timeline, arv, that sort of
stuff?
How did it start?
Where did it wind up?
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Yeah, so upfront.
I mean, I learned a lot throughthis.
It was a pre foreclosure and itwas.
It was presented as it justneeds new kitchen appliances and
like a little bit of cleaning,right, yeah, right, not exactly.
So that again a great learningexperience for me.
(11:22):
So I purchased it at $165,000.
It was projected to sell atabout $215,000.
And I thought that was veryconservative, and luckily it was
.
And it was presented as oh, itneeds like $10,000 into it, Okay
, and it was presented as morelike a whole tale.
Well, I learned quickly nothingonly takes $10,000.
(11:43):
Okay.
And it was presented as as morelike a whole tale.
Well, I learned quickly,nothing only takes 10 grand.
There's no, it's like newcarpet, right.
Again, I learned, I'm alwaysgoing to repaint the whole thing
and I'm probably going toreplace, or you're always going
to replace carpet and you know,and this, this didn't need you
know.
It was kind of presented as oh,just paint the kitchen cabinets
.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
(12:06):
So for starters, like again, itwas a pre foreclosure, so it
was really it was.
It had a sad story.
Like as soon as I showed up,all the neighbors swarmed over,
like that was a really good feelgood moment.
They were like, yeah, thank God,like there's, this has been
(12:27):
such a distressing house, we'rereally glad somebody has
purchased it.
You know it was the only notnice house on the block and it
just.
You know it was a bad situation.
There was some, you know, childand family services have been
called.
There was some addiction.
There'd been some bad stuff youknow so you know, and that's one
of those things where it's likethis was once a well-loved
house and things happened, youknow, and I was really glad to
come in there and love it again,you know, and and bring it, you
(12:50):
know, and show it some love andand find it, find a new family
for it, you know.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
So give that house a chance at a new story.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Exactly exactly.
So.
For starters, it was much, muchmore full of debris.
It took two dumpsters to cleanit out.
And and then, like the, within24 hours, the boyfriend who had
been living there, like thewoman who owned it, turned in
her keys to the title company.
Again, it was a pre-foreclosure.
She's like, and all she wanted.
(13:19):
Like, as I purchased it, shewas going to get like five grand
out of it, you know, and, andthat was, she needed five grand
to move on to turn in the keys.
Well, the boyfriend showed upand ripped the garage door off
the hinges to get into the houseand get some things.
So, like, my contractor wasthere that morning and he's like
, oh, this just happened.
I'm like, just let him take hisstuff and go like, let's just
(13:42):
move on.
So right away, I'm buying a newgarage door, right and again.
So that renovation budget wasnot 10,000.
That renovation budget was30,000 by the time we were done.
And again I learned.
I learned a lot of reallyimportant things, like you know,
number one I trusted and I'mnot saying my wholesaler steered
(14:02):
me wrong Like this.
That was, I should have gonethrough there and walked it
myself.
I did not.
I trusted, I trusted his.
You know his opinion.
And again, from when he walkedthrough it to when I purchased
it, it was only a few days butit had.
It had changed since the firstpictures to what it was and I
should have been there pokingaround more.
So I mean, I wound up replacingthe kitchen cabinets.
(14:24):
I wound up replacing the toilet, the vanity.
I wound up, you know, againrepainting everything new carpet
.
It wound up having to have newwindows, oh wow.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
So, but through all this, luckily the contractor
working on it was great.
He was reasonable as we workedthrough this process.
Working on it was great.
He was reasonable as we workedthrough this process.
You know there were a couple ofthings that he missed that he
later repaired for free becausehis, his thing was like one-stop
shopping, you know, forinvestors.
I'm going to tell you it's thisprice, I'm going to fix these
things and we're going to moveon.
And since there were a coupleof things he missed, he came in
(14:55):
and took care of those at nocost.
So that was, that was great,you know, and again, there's
things that we couldn't haveforeseen.
I mean, they're again the personbreaking in and I'm needing to
put on a new grass shore, right,I know that, you know.
So you know it is what it isand and I learned a lot of
things through that.
So, and again I learned, like abasic like I'm never going to
(15:16):
flip a property with 10 grand inever.
That, not that's.
And honestly, like I'm notgoing to do that.
If I could even get away withit, I'm not comfortable.
Like I don't want to lipstickanything.
I want to do what needs to bedone.
So that is going to slim downthe properties.
That are options for me, andthat's okay.
(15:37):
Like I don't ever want to justput lipstick on it and scoot it
along.
So, again, very good learningopportunities for me to
understand where I want to be inthis whole market, right.
So I wound up breaking even onit.
Luckily, I was able to sell itfor $225 instead of $215, which
is good.
I did have one buyer, I mean Idid.
(15:58):
So things I learned I willalways stage a property.
I mean I was kind, so things Ilearned.
I will always stage a property.
I mean I was kind of like man.
It's like $2,500 to stage thisthing.
But I knew I'm like I'm notgoing to be able to sleep at
night unless I am reallypresenting this in the best way
that it can be presented.
And that meant stage and youknow what, holy shnikes Talking
(16:19):
about a makeover?
I mean the contractor gave it amakeover.
I did a lot of the paintingmyself, which I told myself I
will never lift a paintbrushagain.
I am able to paint.
I'm not going to paint anymoreand I am able to do some.
I am able to replace lightfixtures.
I'm not going to do that.
(16:40):
I am able to replace outletsand light switches.
I'm not going to do that everagain.
Like I'm no, I will.
I'm going to have a contract todo that.
Just because I'm, just becauseI can, Doesn't mean that.
I should Right Exactly so.
But I got to the point becausethis was running over budget.
Those were the choices I had tomake to keep it in any sort of
a breakeven situation.
So so those were things that Idid to keep it within.
(17:03):
Well, keep it within itsoverrun budget, okay so, and I
did.
I had one buyer come in.
You know, initially I wasn'tgoing to replace the windows.
Their inspector gave them allthis fear.
They're like, oh my gosh, thisis just a lipstick thing.
No, it's not, you know.
So anyway, they backed out.
But here in North Carolina youhave due diligence money that if
(17:25):
they pull out, I get to keepthat.
So I kept that, and then thathelped offset the cost.
I want to just like.
Even my realtor was saying,well, you could just replace the
glass in these windows.
I'm like, no, we're just goingto do new windows, like it.
Just why put new glass inwindows that are borderline?
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Like I'm just going to do this.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
So again, and I again I can sleep better at night by
doing that.
So we did all that stuff and itwas all good.
So, yeah it, it wound up beinga break even, you know.
But again I learned a ton ofthings and I flipped my first
house.
I mean, how cool is that?
I mean I, you know, I rememberat one point, like cause I was
kind of like, you know, kind ofsomewhat doubting myself at one
point in the process and I thinkI had kind of posted my fears
(18:04):
in the group and you flipped thehouse, right, you did the thing
right, you did the thing right.
Crap, you're right.
And I did you die.
I did not die, and you know, Idid not die and I my and after
pictures and I had such like awarm fuzzy feeling.
(18:28):
I had this warm fuzzy feelinglike look at what this was and
look at what it became and howhappy the neighbors were, and
also both houses that I'veflipped, I've wound up having
like these amazing supportiveneighbors, like both, both
situations.
I had a neighbor who would likecall me, like hey, lois,
there's a red truck here, andI'd be like it's okay, it's the
guy mowing the lawn, you know.
Or he's like hey, somebody'swalking by.
The other day I ran him off.
I'm like thank you, whichthat's invaluable, because I
(18:53):
mean that house was about 45minutes.
It was about a 45 minute driveso I couldn't be there quickly.
My second flip was like a 10minute drive.
That was a lot easier for me tojust swing by.
But in both scenarios I hadneighbors who were, who just
like kind of took me under theirwing and appointed themselves
as the eyes and ears of thehouse and that was really great.
So just knowing what I had done, what this process had done for
(19:16):
that neighborhood, for thathouse, and and the other thing
that I loved was putting myselfin the, in the foot, in the
shoes of the buyer, like who'sgoing to buy this house?
You know, I'm like it's in agreat, it had great, great
school system.
So I'm like this is going toprobably and it was very close
to a military base I'm likethere's going to be a military
family, probably with young kidswho's there's probably going to
be their, their first home, andthat's exactly what it was.
(19:38):
So walking in there andchoosing, like paint colors,
choosing appliances, choosingcabinetry, choosing carpet,
choosing all these things, withthat mindset of here's, I'm a
new home buyer with young kids.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
What do I want?
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Yeah, and that was really fun.
And then I also really enjoythinking of it that way.
I felt like I was spendingsomeone else's money.
So I like that too.
You would want this and youwould want to pay this for it,
so I'm going to buy that for you.
So that was another really neatthing that happened.
But again, even though I didn'tmake money on the deal, it was
(20:13):
an amazing experience.
Again, I didn't die.
I faced some fears, I made somegreat decisions and and, and I
wanted to do another one.
Like that's another thing.
Like I, there are certainthings that I know I do not want
to do in this process.
I do not want to be aresidential realtor period.
That's not anything thatappeals to me.
If I had to do that, I wouldnot flip another house.
(20:35):
That's just not my thing.
That's not my thing.
So I have, through this process, I found an amazing realtor who
I've worked with.
She sold that flip for me, shehelped me purchase and sell my
second flip and I run stuff byher all the time and she runs
stuff by me, I mean.
So it's been a greatpartnership.
She understands investment, andwhat I love about her is she
(20:57):
takes care of all the realtorstuff that I want no part of.
When she calls me, she'll belike, hey, this just happened
and here's two options and Ithink we should do this and I
say sounds good.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Great realtor, and I'm with you.
Oh my gosh, I want nothing todo with getting my license ever.
I want to flip the house.
I want to manage the project.
I want to manage the house.
I want to manage the project.
I want to manage the budget.
I want to do all of thosethings.
I do not want to deal withbuyers, I do not want to be, you
know, on that end of it and Idon't want to be scheduling
(21:33):
showings.
None of that, I don't want anyof that when.
I'm done flipping the house.
I want to be done with it.
I want to get it off.
And you know what?
My agent is very similar.
She handles things.
She calls me.
This is what happened.
Here's option A.
Here's option B.
I like option A better and I'mlike sounds good to me.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
How easy is that?
I know it's the best thing.
I mean it's just yeah, I'm.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
And I don't have to pay licensing fees, I don't have
to do continuing ed classes, Imean honestly, I like the course
content.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Like I, if I could, I'd be a professional student,
right, I love learning stuff.
I would be all over that.
But yeah, that's the part Idon't want to deal with.
Like I know, on that first flipmy wholesale agent was like
he's like you know you could dofor sale by owner.
And I said I'd rather gouge myeyeballs out.
I'm like I want no part of that.
You know I said so.
What I pay in realtorcommission is worth every penny,
(22:26):
and you know that's what I likedoing.
Like I say, I am happily goingto pay someone to put in outlets
, light switches, paint andlight fixtures, Yep, and sell
the house and sell the house,yeah, and when you figure those
things in in the beginning.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
No-transcript.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Immediately.
It was immediately as in, likeI was under contract on the
second, while the first one wasunder contract to be sold, and I
told my realtor I'm like justto be clear, because I actually
financed the first flipcompletely on my home equity
Okay, so I had enough of a homeequity line to not worry about a
hard money lender, so so thatwas nice.
(23:29):
However, that tied up my wholehome equity line.
So I was like I don't reallywant to do that again and again,
if I'm, I realized if I'm doingthat, I'm reaching for the deal
too much, right?
Yes, doing that, I'm reachingfor the deal too much, right?
Yes, I don't, I shouldn't.
You know I'm, I'm reaching toomuch, I don't I should.
I should be doing deals that Ican price differently, where I
(23:50):
can use a hard money lender,right?
So that is what I did on mysecond deal.
So my second deal was actuallyan MLS deal and my agent found
it, I mean.
So I decided at that point I'mlike I really don't want to be
driving an hour away to work ona flip.
You know, I am more comfortabledoing something in my backyard,
and there's enough in mybackyard that I should be able
to find that.
So my next flip was also in Cary.
(24:11):
It was like five miles awayfrom my house, so that was Nice.
So we looked at a few and againmy agent is investor-friendly
and she was kind of like here'sa few options.
And I ran the numbers and I waslike, okay, I like this one.
So it had been a rental forlike 30 years, like nothing had
really been updated on it.
(24:34):
It had a really small, crummykitchen.
It was in a great area, okay,but a really gross.
It would have really weirdfirst floor layout and it just
needed.
It needed a lot of love.
But again, had had greatpotential, great area, and
people were scared of it becausethere were some foundation
issues.
And that was a great learningexperience.
I learned to not be afraid offoundation issues because you
(24:56):
know, but in the meantime,before before I got to that
point, I'd had a couple what'sthe term?
Foundation guys that, oh,structural engineers yes, yes, I
had a couple of those.
I think I had three come outand give me opinions and in the
meantime I was factoring inabout a $30,000 cost to repair
the foundation, to fix thefoundation issues.
(25:17):
But really, I mean most of themsaid you know well, you can ram
, jack it up.
That's like 26 grand.
And then another guy was likeoh, I think it'd be about 20
grand.
And the third guy said he's like, he's like these cracks.
He's like these are.
He's like yes, they're cracksin your foundation.
He's like, but these are morecosmetic issues.
He's like the issue, I think,is the drainage, the water
(25:37):
runoff, because there were nogutters on the house so the
water had been just pouring nextto the foundation and you know
and stuff like that happensaround here.
So as far as like the soil anddrainage and stuff, and he said
he's like I think the problem isthe drainage.
He's like I think you putgutters on it and then I think
you have, you know, frenchdrains running from the gutters
to well away from the foundation.
He's like I think that's yourfix.
(25:58):
He's like I think you patch thefoundation.
He's like I think that actuallycorrects the problem.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
So that's what I did, and I've actually yeah, I've
actually worked on several flipswith bad foundations, and 90%
of the time it's a waterdrainage issue and, yes,
sometimes the foundation alsoneeds to be fixed.
But it's not the end of theworld, and once you can take
care of that water, thedeterioration stops.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Yes, so my engineer agreed.
My engineer recommended that,signed off on it.
I had a guy come out and takecare of it, so that wound up
being more like a $6,000 dealthan a $30,000 deal.
By that time I was alreadyunder contract, assuming I would
pay $30,000 in foundation.
Okay.
So that was a plus.
However, there's more to thestory, but anyway that that
(26:50):
helped me understand again, thathelped me find an engineer who
I trusted.
It helped me find, like youknow, again a foundation guy who
I trusted, and so again I'mbuilding my portfolio of
contractors that I trust, youknow.
Through it, you know, you findsomething that you like and
something you don't like.
So this, this again, is helpingme go through that process,
make phone calls, research itand educate myself, so so that
(27:11):
that all wound up great.
So I this was a really greatflip and it's on my little
Facebook page, but it's a reallygreat flip to show before and
after pictures.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
This is the one with the fireplace right, the big
tall.
Oh my gosh, I wish ourlisteners could see the pictures
.
It is amazing.
It's this beautiful accent wall, black accent wall, that goes
all the way to this, like loftedor vaulted ceiling, and and
it's just this big black.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
Oh, it's just beautiful, it is the coolest
that the kitchen went from beingthis really gross, strange
kitchen to a beautiful kitchen,right.
So it was just I.
I love the befores and aftersof that, so so, um, so I knew I
was going to even when I boughtit.
I'm like we need to open upthis kitchen.
There's things that can be done.
Luckily, I have a great friendwho I've little side note I, for
(28:03):
probably 15 years, I had my owncustom window treatment
business, so I worked with aninterior designer.
Oddly enough, we both moved fromSt Louis to Raleigh right
around the same time, so we'veknown each other for forever.
And so when I need to do anysort of, you know, typically if
I'm doing like color selection,even you know, flooring, carpet
(28:23):
paint, I'll have her do it,because she just knows.
And then I just do what shesays and it always looks
gorgeous.
And then she drew a couple offloor plans for me on this
because she quickly, you know,because I was like let's just
knock all this out.
And she's like, well, there'san HVAC stack here that and I
talked to my I found a greatHVAC guy too.
He's like we can't.
(28:45):
He's like I've looked all over,he's like we can't move that
that's got to stay there.
So we knew it couldn't be asopen as I would like, but it was
open enough.
So anyway, omg, this is amazing.
I'm like.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
I want to do this one yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
So so that's what we worked on.
So I had also, so I had acontractor.
I had two or three differentcontractors bid the bid, all the
improvements, cause it neededeverything, right, it needed new
doors, it needed new molding,it needed new baseboards, it
needed a new carpet, needed newLVP needed, like the staircase
needed some work.
It needed everything.
(29:17):
So I am quickly learning thatif I go into a house like that,
I'm probably I mean, we'retalking 80 to 100,000 period.
So that's really helped me lookand honestly, I like that space
, I like knowing I got toreplace everything period.
I would rather have that thanwell, I think I only need to
replace this, but oops, I got todo that and that's another
10,000, right, I would ratherhave that than well, I think I
(29:37):
only need to replace this, butoops, I got to do that and
that's another 10,000, right,I'd rather say I got to do it
all and again, then I canpresent a house that's every
that, everything's new.
You know there's no question ofwell, you should have done the
windows.
I did the windows, I did thisand I had a roof inspection and
I did the gutters and I did thatand I, you know, it's just just
, I would rather I sleep betterat night doing that and I want
(29:58):
to buy projects in that space ata price that I can do that.
So I I had my contractor that Iworked with before he gave me a
bid and I just felt like Iwasn't.
I had this gut feeling.
I'm like I don't know if he'sgoing to give me the finish that
I need for this area.
Maybe he would have.
I mean we could have talkedmore, but I mean I just I wasn't
(30:21):
comfortable.
I had another couple that werelike way out of the ballpark and
I'm like just no, that's justno.
Like this isn't my home, thisis an investment property.
You know, there is that, thatbalance, right.
I mean we need something nice,but it doesn't need to be like
what I would put in my house,right?
So then I picked a contractor inthe middle and this contractor
(30:42):
I had he'd gone on and looked atsome other flips with me.
He came recommended by arealtor and one of my real
estate investment network groupsand I expected him to be fine.
So, yeah, so another learningexperience, okay.
So he got off to us, you know,and there were things Okay.
So also, you know, the contractwasn't as strong as Flip
(31:07):
Sisters would recommend, it beOkay.
But I felt like I knew him wellenough.
I felt like it was good enough.
I didn't know him well enoughand it was not because and there
were some questions.
I was kind of like this is alittle bit weird, but you know,
yeah, yeah, I should havetrusted that gut feeling Right
(31:28):
Um so anyway, he got started andyou know, I gave him.
He got started.
I gave him some deposits.
Then he was like, hey, I needdeposits for the cabinets and
for this, and that I gave himsome deposits.
Then he was like, hey, I needdeposits for the cabinets and
for this, and that I gave himsome more money and ultimately
he disappeared.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So ultimately I wound up havingto sue him.
I did get a judgment againsthim, so that's great, but he's
(31:53):
he's ran off to Brazil, which iswhere he's from.
I have this judgment againsthim, but I I'll never see a dime
of that money, Right, so sothat stinks, but you know what?
Okay, so silver lining, Iactually looked at, I looked at
like subbing out the rest of itmyself, that was, and I did, I
did all the flooring myself.
(32:13):
I'm capable of that.
I found I found a great windowguy.
That was a silver lining, agreat window guy that he does
only windows.
So he's like next flip, he'slike call me, I'll replace your
windows Very reasonable, likeI'll use him on windows for
every flip that I do, you know.
Again, I found I already had agreat flooring place.
That was great.
But I found a new contractorwho is amazing.
(32:37):
Right, it's a husband wife team.
She's basically the projectmanager, he's the general
contractor.
They were fabulous.
They came in and and did anunbelievable job.
So, you know, did my costs go up?
Yep, yeah, but you know in inpart.
So that was one where it's likeI, I thought I I didn't think I
(32:59):
needed to.
Again, there's a window thing.
I didn't feel like I needed toreplace the windows on that, but
my contractor who left paid itover the windows.
Yeah, so that became a okay.
Now I got to replace thewindows.
So there's $7,000 I didn'taccount for, you know.
So, anyway, and I also wound upholding the project longer
because I thought it was.
(33:19):
I accounted for six months, itwound up being nine months.
So, uh, holding costs go up alot when you're using hard money
and you're paying extensionfees.
Yeah, those went up a lot.
And then, ultimately, the marketshifted a bit.
I wasn't selling it in April,which is the hottest time to
sell.
I was selling it in August, soso I wound up selling it for
(33:40):
15,000 less than I expected.
So you know, all those things,um, I'm actually waiting for my
accountant to tell me preciselywhat the loss was on that.
But yeah, so it was not.
It's you know, luckily it wasn'tas much of a loss as it could
have been because I had, youknow, allocated well for that
foundation issue.
I was also concerned I wasgoing to have to replace HVAC
(34:02):
and I didn't need to do that,like what I thought.
The HVAC wasn't working when wewent in.
So I'm like, all right, 10grand for that.
That turned out to be like$1,500.
So I luckily had some reallygood things to offset that.
So it could have been a biggerloss than it was.
But I mean, I bought it at 300.
I sold it at 485 initially andI thought I was going to sell it
(34:25):
at 500.
I thought it was going to beabout 80,000 to renovation.
It was over 120,000 renovation.
You know, part of that was paidto the guy who ran off with my
deposit.
Um, and then my carrying costswent again.
I held it not six months, Iheld it nine months.
So so that and again that onceI once I really looked at the
numbers as I was turning thatinto my account and I was like,
(34:45):
oh, no wonder I have thisbalance on my home.
I could have cut it line yeah,yeah, yeah.
So that was, that was I.
That was not a break even lossyeah, mostly because of the
carrying cost.
But again, I mean that aside,it was an amazing before and
after.
I found a great window guy.
I found a great contractor.
(35:07):
I mean I honestly can't wait towork with that contractor again.
So also, I didn't pursueanything else since last fall
because I decided to go back tograd school.
So I'm getting my master's inaccounting, so that started in
August.
So the good thing is that,luckily, I've gotten to know
(35:27):
myself well enough that I mean Ialways put more on my plate
than I can handle.
But even I knew, like Lois, youcannot do a flip right now,
like you're working full timeand you're going to grad school.
You need to back off.
And I did Right.
So now I have the summer open,so now I am going to start.
Now I am.
I am really, um, I have neverdone much of a like a male
(35:49):
campaign, but I realized that'swhere it's at.
Going straight to the sellers,that's where it's at and that's
what I am planning to activelypursue Driving around, picking
out houses, doing the lists,marketing that way.
That's the way to go.
So, that's what I plan to dogoing forward is to really focus
on my mailing campaign and seewhat that, see what that,
(36:12):
because I think that'll be.
I think that's going to bereally lucrative.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
So, yeah, you're looking to find your next flip.
I mean, yeah, yeah, break evenon the first, probably losing
some money on the second, right,yeah, and you're still looking
to do your next flip because youhave lessons learned.
Yes, yes, contracts, contracts,contracts are super important,
(36:35):
right, yes, yes, purchase pricethat purchase price is really,
really important.
Getting those inspections andthose contractor estimates
before you get in, you know, nottesting those wholesaler
numbers, all those things, yes,yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
And I know they're not all going to be wins right.
I mean that's the reality.
So hey, I've gotten a breakeven and a loss.
I'm due for some wins.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Yeah, yeah, and I've learned so much Like I've
learned enough right?
Speaker 3 (37:04):
I think I will be in a space to have those wins.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
So yeah, and I think you've had a ton of wins.
Yes, what is your favorite partof the entire flip process?
Speaker 3 (37:17):
Putting myself in the buyer's shoes and saying this
is what I want.
That's my favorite part.
So again, I have, you know,having done, you know, been in
the window treatment.
You know interior design.
I mean I am not a designer, youknow, but just kind of being in
that space I have a good eyefor, like, does it have good
bones right?
And I know also again, like,does it have good bones Right
(37:38):
and have it.
And I know also, again, staging, staging, staging.
Like I know, when I'm done witha flip, people walk in and
they're like, oh my gosh, likethis is amazing.
The other great thing about thatsecond one being right in my
backyard I hosted my own littlesocial open house, so I had my
hard money lender came by.
I had a couple of realtors comeby.
I had some some neighborhoodfriends come by.
(37:58):
So I had my hard money lendercame by.
I had a couple of realtors comeby.
I had some some neighborhoodfriends come by, so I had people
come by and that also kind ofhelps spread the word about this
is what I'm doing on the side.
You know, if you know, you knowso that I felt like it was a
really good little marketingopportunity and just also like a
feel good thing, Like it gaveme a chance to kind of show off
what I was doing, thing Like itgave me a chance to kind of show
off what I was doing.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Build those relationships, build those
relationships A hundred percent.
Do you have any?
Speaker 3 (38:30):
limiting beliefs or mindset, obstacles that are
different now than when youstarted.
I mean, I've gotten rid of alot of the limiting ones.
Do I have new ones that exist?
Yes.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
I love that you can't think of any.
I really can't, I can't.
You guys have been so good.
You guys have been so good.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
I mean, I feel like the sky's the limit, right?
I mean, one thing that I havelearned is you know, again, I am
aware of my like, my scope,like again.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
I can't.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
I was even having a day yesterday where again, I'm
in between jobs right now.
So my government job endedabout a week ago and I've been
looking for my next spot.
I've got some good responses.
I think something's coming soon.
But I had this moment yesterdaywhere I'm like I need to be a
commercial realtor, that's mynext move.
Okay, and I was all ready to goclick because I'm like I have
(39:19):
to get my licensing anyway,whether I'm residential or
commercial, but I licensinganyway, whether I'm residential
or commercial.
But I'm like, okay, I'll dothat right now.
It's like Lois, stop, I'm goingto grad school.
Okay, I've got other learningthings that I need to take care
of before my classes start inthe fall.
It's like you don't need totake that realtor stuff right
now.
Like if somebody is going toactually hire you, then great,
(39:39):
but right now I don't need to dothat today.
So just knowing, like, back off,finish the project in front of
you and focus on that and then,if you're bored, then absolutely
go do that.
So that's.
That is all of this, likerealizing my limitations,
understanding how much I can puton my plate and not driving
(40:00):
myself crazy Like those cause Ican.
I can do a lot, but even I willstill overload that.
So having that self-awarenesslike you need to draw the line
here that has been great becauseI yeah, then I can do things
effectively and efficiently andI'm not making myself crazy.
So, yeah, those that's really,that's really what has.
Those are things that I'veactually been able to do here in
(40:23):
the last year is to say I can'tdo another one right now.
I can't do this right now, butyou know what, in four months I
can.
So it's okay, just wait till Ican take it on and then I can do
it well.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Yeah yeah.
Your mindset is indescribable,right?
Like, what do you do on a dailybasis to keep your mindset so
positive and so likeself-reflective and also not
beating yourself up?
That's a balance, right?
How do you?
How do you balance that?
(40:54):
Well, it's taken a long time.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
No, I look for the good, you know, I look for the
positives.
I mean, now, am I, am I likethat a hundred percent of the
time?
No, there are days where I'mlike groveling and beating
myself up, but those days noware few and far between and I've
learned like there's plenty ofother people in the world that
might beat me up.
I don't need to beat myself up,like let them do it.
I don't need to be in thatspace.
(41:19):
I need.
I've learned you know there'sthere's a couple you know, like
reels that I've seen.
I need to talk nicely to myselfand what I say to myself
matters, and so I've gotten alot better at that.
And again, just looking at thepositives and believing that the
world wants good things for meand good things are going to
(41:39):
happen, and it might be down aweird, uncomfortable path but
it's good for you, you know Imean, and that that really helps
.
I mean, again, right now I'munemployed.
That's really scary.
I'm, I'm a single mom with twokids in college.
That's scary, but I have tobelieve, you know, and I I like
(41:59):
to be able to see the path aheadof me.
I can't see that path right now, so I just have to walk forward
and wait for that path toreveal itself.
And, you know, and that's justjust trust the process and and
not do anything really dumb.
I mean now, now is not the timeto go to go do expensive
(42:20):
vacations.
Right now is not the time tobuy a flip without a lot of
great research, right?
I mean, I know where I'm at.
I know, you know, I've, I've,really I knew this unemployment
was looming.
You know, probably I've reallyhoned by, fine tune my spending.
I'm very well aware of what mycosts are and what it takes.
And, and again, you know, worstcase, I sell my house and I
(42:41):
downsize.
You know I'm not opposed tothat.
You know I don't think that'sgoing to have to happen, but
always so think positive andhave an exit strategy.
You know, you've got a plan.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
You've got a plan, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
Yeah, so that's what does it.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
Lois, this has been an absolute roller coaster for
me, because I'll be.
I had no idea coming into thisconversation where you ended up
on these flips, and so I hadthis whole roller coaster with
you the entire time and it wasan amazing ride.
Speaker 3 (43:13):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
And I am so honored that you're willing to share all
the real stuff with us todayand to be vulnerable and be open
about it and share thoselessons that you learned,
because that's hard right.
And sharing your mindset, likesharing your positive outlook,
your willingness to speak kindlyto yourself and keep moving
(43:37):
forward, and even though thepath isn't always clear, I think
that's really important.
Yeah, and that's what's goingto make you a successful real
estate investor.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
Thank you.
Yeah, I mean I've loved thejourney so far.
I'm thrilled to talk about it.
Like I said earlier, I'm like,I love to talk about me.
Call me anytime for a podcast.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
They don't love to talk about themselves.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
right, exactly, and yeah, if I can save some.
I mean I know certain thingslike you know.
You can have people tell youthings and sometimes you've just
got to do it to really learnthe lesson.
But I mean you know, if, if anyof my you know successes or
failures are helpful, I am, I'mglad I could share them and I
hope they help somebody so.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, thank you for that.
Is there anything else that youwould like people out there to
know before we leave for the day?
Speaker 1 (44:27):
Is there anything we?
Speaker 3 (44:27):
didn't cover that you'd like to talk about.
I mean, I'm doing things today,in my 50s, that if you had told
me decades ago I would be doing, I would have said there's no
way I'm going to do that.
And you're crazy, you know,just in Marching bands.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
I'm going to plug that.
Marching bands.
Speaker 3 (44:45):
So let me talk about that.
So yeah, as I, as I enrolled ingrad school, both my kids are
music majors and and our, ourlove of marching band really
flourished once they got intohigh school marching band.
And I'm a student at NC stateuniversity and when I, when I
enrolled, I thought to myself Iwonder if I can be in the
marching band.
And I was.
I was the marching band kid asa high schooler and I was
(45:09):
actually a music major my firsttwo years of college, 35 years
ago.
So I still, you know, there's,there's that.
So I called band director and Isaid hey, you know, as a
non-traditional student, am Ieligible to be in the marching
band?
And he said you've got to passthe audition, but sure.
So I practiced my French hornall summer, last summer, and I
(45:30):
submitted an audition tape and Igot in.
It has been the best experienceand it's been so fun.
And, yes, I am 35 years olderthan everyone else in that band
and it was great.
I mean, who gets to go back anddo that kind of stuff?
Speaker 2 (45:45):
Right Look at you out there doing, doing these
non-traditional things, scarythings, intimidating things,
right, but also thrilling andfun.
Speaker 3 (45:56):
I would imagine it's been so fun.
I mean, again, I I'm uncertainwhat my job situation is, but I
right now I am enrolled to goback this fall, so hopefully my,
my job situation will allow meto do that.
And, um, and I mean I'm so gladI did it, I'm so glad that I'm
doing these.
You know wild and crazy thingsand it's so fun.
And yeah, don't, don't give upon yourself, you know.
(46:19):
I mean ask the questions, giveit a shot and see where it goes.
You know, and I mean certainlyprepare.
I mean I, I didn't just get offthe couch and do college
marching band.
I mean I was.
I was a runner, I was in goodshape, I knew I would have to be
it's very physical and I knewthe only way I was able to do it
was because I was in goodphysical shape, I mean.
(46:40):
But you know it was, um, youknow, all all these things just
kind of came together to to helpme do these things.
I mean I'm I'm also an ultrarunner.
If you'd have told me 30 yearsago that I would do that, I
would have told you.
You are crazy.
I am not an athlete and Iwasn't an athlete until I was
like in my mid forties I was notat all.
I mean not at all, and I'vedone all these crazy athletic
(47:04):
things.
So it's it's amazing whathappens if you just take a
little steps forward.
You know you'd be shocked atwhat might happen if you do that
.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
So I love that Great that's.
That's an amazing place to endit today.
So thanks for being here withme today.
I have enjoyed this thoroughlyand I can't wait to share all of
this with all of our listenersout there, and I can't wait to
see you get your next flip.
So please, please, please, makesure and stay engaged in the
(47:35):
Facebook group with us.
Speaker 3 (47:36):
We want to know what you're up to and you've got that
coaching.
So sounds good, great.
Thank you so much.
I'm delighted to share my storyand I can't wait to share
future adventures.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
Huge thank you to Lois for showing up with such
honesty and grit today.
Your candor reminds us thatit's not about having a perfect
story.
It's about owning your journeyand showing up anyway Around
here.
We don't chase perfection andshowing up anyway Around here.
We don't chase perfection.
No, we chase progress, learning, grid and that magical combo of
tenacity and self-reflectionthat keeps us moving forward,
(48:12):
even when the road gets messyand, let's be real, it usually
does.
This community, it's 100% builton support and non-judgment.
Our goal is for you to do yourfirst flip in a way that makes
you want to do it again.
Whether you're crushing yourfifth flip or have zero
experience in real estate, youbelong here.
If today lit a spark or evenjust cracked open the door, come
(48:37):
join us at theflipsisterscom.
We've got tools, training and awhole squad of women ready to
cheer you on.
Until next time, keep showingup, keep learning and remember
you don't have to do itperfectly, you just have to do
it.
Catch you soon.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Cardiac Cowboys
The heart was always off-limits to surgeons. Cutting into it spelled instant death for the patient. That is, until a ragtag group of doctors scattered across the Midwest and Texas decided to throw out the rule book. Working in makeshift laboratories and home garages, using medical devices made from scavenged machine parts and beer tubes, these men and women invented the field of open heart surgery. Odds are, someone you know is alive because of them. So why has history left them behind? Presented by Chris Pine, CARDIAC COWBOYS tells the gripping true story behind the birth of heart surgery, and the young, Greatest Generation doctors who made it happen. For years, they competed and feuded, racing to be the first, the best, and the most prolific. Some appeared on the cover of Time Magazine, operated on kings and advised presidents. Others ended up disgraced, penniless, and convicted of felonies. Together, they ignited a revolution in medicine, and changed the world.