July 10, 2024 • 34 mins
In this special episode of Flow Stars recorded live at CYTO 2024, our panel of esteemed guests, representing a cross-section of cytometry users, discuss the biggest matters in flow cytometry.
They explore the capabilities of current cytometers and what future developments should focus on. They also consider the importance of making cytometry equipment more affordable and the level of technical support provided by manufacturers.
Plus, the panel also discusses the importance of encouraging young researchers to use flow cytometry for small particle analysis and whether it's normal to name your instruments!
With:
• Claudia Maria Radu, Assistant Professor, University of Padua.
• Vera Tang, Adjunct Professor, Facility Manager, Flow Cytometry Core Facility, University of Ottawa.
• André Görgens, Researcher, Karolinska Institutet.
#Cytometry #FlowCytometry #Podcast
Watch or listen to all episodes of Flow Stars: flowstars.bitesizebio.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Intro/Outro (00:00):
Welcome to Flowstars, candid conversations
between doctor Peter O'Toole andthe big hitters of flow
cytometry, brought to you byBeckman Coulter at Bite Size
Bio.
Peter O'Toole (00:11):
In this special episode of Flowstars recorded
live in Edinburgh, cyto 2024with special guests. We discuss
some of the leading topics inflow cytometry including what
changes cytometrists would liketo see.
André Görgens (00:24):
Maybe making it more widespreadly widespread
available to everybody,especially positive instruments
are really tough to get hands onfor people, especially in
northwestern countries.
Peter O'Toole (00:38):
The importance of encouraging young researchers to
consider place cytometry as aresearch tool.
Vera Tang (00:44):
Adopting new technology, inviting getting the
scientists in the in theuniversity to utilize something
new. If you tell them, you know,hey, we can detect EVs, we can
detect viruses, A lot of themare very reticent about it, and
they like the technologies thatthey're familiar with.
Peter O'Toole (01:03):
And we reflect on the capabilities of the current
cytometers.
Claudia Maria Radu (01:07):
But remember, they're important to
have the possibility to sortingthis. Now we can do it. How are
you doing it? With the sight ofFlexa Septi.
Peter O'Toole (01:18):
All in this episode of Flow Stars.
Mario Cox (01:25):
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Hello, and a very
warm welcome to our eveningevent. Okay. Hello. Good
evening, ladies and gentlemen.
It's a great pleasure for me towelcome you to our live episode
of Flowstars here from CYTO2024. My name is Mario Cox. I'm
(01:50):
leading the global marketing andmedical scientific affairs teams
of Beckman Coulter, and we'revery happy and very fortunate to
have you all here with ustonight. My job is a very easy
1. So, my role is, to the is tointroduce our host for tonight.
And in case if you are aware ofwhat Flowstar is, you know him
(02:11):
already. If you don't know whatFlowstar is, it's a very simple
explanation. It's a podcast thatwe have started 2, 3 years ago,
Peckhamakota Life Sciences,together with BYITESAS Bio. And
Flowstars is about interviewingthese stars in flow cytometry.
And this is what Peter O'Tooleis doing.
(02:32):
So if you go to the YouTubechannel, you can learn a lot
about what happened in flowcytometry, big milestones.
You're going to see and meet themovers and shakers in flow
cytometry in our industry. Andyou get good insights into where
this technology, theapplications are going in the
future. For me, now my role, asI said, is to get us started.
(02:56):
So, therefore, it's my greatpleasure to introduce to
introduce Peter O'Toole.
Peter is the head of thetechnology facility at the
University of York. He's head ofthe, department of imaging and
cytometry. And as you know, 123,1 more, he's also the president
(03:17):
of the Royal Microscopy Society.So please join me and welcome
Peter Orteur to the stage. Thankyou.
Peter O'Toole (03:35):
Wow. You're all in the dark as far as I'm
concerned. Well, you are aboutwhat we're gonna talk about.
Okay. Evening, everybody.
Yeah. Thank you. Okay. So it isa live podcast. We will be
recording it in front of a liveaudience, so be careful of
sound, please, just for ourguests themselves.
Okay? They like to be heard, notas much as I like to be heard.
(03:58):
Okay. So the dress the easiestthing actually, I've got an easy
job because lots of you haveactually posted questions for
our guests this evening. Sothank you, Beckman Coulter, for
allowing us to do this, andthanks for everyone who's
actually sent in theirquestions.
If you're happy to actually putyour hand up when I talk about
your question, please do. I betno 1 does. Okay. So our first
(04:19):
guest for this evening isClaudio Radu from Italy. We have
Beaver Tongue from Canada.
(04:40):
And Andre Gorgens from Sweden.See, III did get all your
questions. So I thought,actually, the first bit of the
evening is they all havesomething in common, is that
(05:01):
none of them think that sizematters. So we're like, I think
there's a commonality that, youknow, it's bigger than to
everything, and they're all intothe small and beautiful things,
the small particles. So there isactually a common theme about
this, and I thought we'd starton that especially because of
the nano system that's beencoming out.
So, actually, I'm going to askfirst. Who has a CytoFlex?
(05:26):
Claudia?
Claudia Maria Radu (05:27):
Yes. Absolutely. Not only 1.
Peter O'Toole (05:30):
Not only 1? How many?
Claudia Maria Radu (05:32):
I have a Cytoflex and Cytoflex SFP, the
sorting.
Peter O'Toole (05:36):
Oh, you have a sorting 1? Yeah. Vera?
Vera Tang (05:40):
I have 1.
Peter O'Toole (05:41):
You have 1?
Vera Tang (05:42):
I have 1. Only 1? Siblex S.
Peter O'Toole (05:45):
Okay. So the small 1. That's okay. It is a
Vera Tang (05:48):
small 1. It's dedicated for the small stuff.
Peter O'Toole (05:50):
An ombre.
André Görgens (05:53):
I don't have 10I have 1 in the core facility
nearby though that I can usewhenever I want, and I've used 1
in the lab I've been before, butnot in our own lab currently.
Peter O'Toole (06:03):
You don't have? Sorry. Contee, you have someone
to sell to. Okay. So that's 1 ofthe first audience questions
that came in was what made youselect flow cytometry as a
technology that you want to stayhours working with?
Who answered who asked thatquestion? No one's brave enough
to say yes to it. But someoneasked the same question in a
(06:27):
different way, which is whatmade you choose a career in flow
cytometry or did you choose it?So I'm gonna start with Vira on
this 1.
Vera Tang (06:36):
Did I choose it? So I have a PhD. I'm an immunologist
by training. I I did a lot ofviral immunity, always been
interested in viruses, so I'vedone a lot of flow. Did I really
want a career as a core facilitymanager?
That was not planned. But afterpost doc, the core facility
(06:57):
director at the time said, doyou want a job? And I said, yes.
I want to be employed. And 12years later, here we are.
Peter O'Toole (07:09):
And Andre?
André Görgens (07:10):
I, didn't really choose it, but I did my PhD in
hematotic stem cell biology. Sothen, yeah, consequently, you
have to use flow cytometers, andthat's where I learned and get
both in contact with flowcytometers. So, obviously, I
began to love them, love to setessays, up and, use them on a
(07:31):
daily basis. So that's how itstarted.
Peter O'Toole (07:35):
So you started in your immunology and then
differentiated into flowcytometry. I guess that's
appropriate. Claudia?
Claudia Maria Radu (07:41):
I think so that, cytometry choose me. Yeah.
Because, at the university, sayyou have to work with
extracellular vesicles. Oh, no.With the breeze?
I need something to see them.And I start with cytometry. And
excuse me. Because cytometryfrom Beckman is the only 1 that
(08:03):
work really with the with thebreeze at the the first.
Peter O'Toole (08:07):
She's not being paid to say that. That's a good
point. Okay. So, actually,there's a really interesting
question that came in. So whathurdles have you faced in your
career, and what actions haveyou actually taken to ensure
that they they they don't happenagain?
So what hurdles have you facedin your career? It's it's it's
(08:28):
it's the person you asked thatquestion in here. I knew this
would happen. No one's going toadmit to anything. We have to be
moosy on anonymity not oh, thewords that means you we don't
know who you are.
Claudia Maria Radu (08:41):
Claudia? I think so that 1 of the big
problem for all the researchersis to find funds money to buy
the
André Görgens (08:51):
instruments. Yeah.
Claudia Maria Radu (08:52):
This is the problem of all our career. You
have to work with instruments.Big big instruments with little
money or important instruments.But, I convinced my institution
to buy for me.
Peter O'Toole (09:09):
But wouldn't it be easier if they sold it as
cheaper?
Vera Tang (09:13):
No. I need service.
Claudia Maria Radu (09:17):
I need service.
Peter O'Toole (09:19):
And and actually so actually, Viva will say go
on. What did you say, Viva?
Vera Tang (09:23):
I said the service.
Peter O'Toole (09:25):
Yeah. The cost of the service. Yeah. Yeah. That
that that is a is a corefacility.
That's 1 of the biggestchallenges. Is it?
Vera Tang (09:33):
Actually, for us in Canada, it's not as hard to get
funding to buy equipment, but itis challenging to keep
supporting the equipment andgetting adequate support for our
equipment, well trainedengineers.
Peter O'Toole (09:49):
So what would you say your biggest hurdle is,
though?
Vera Tang (09:52):
Adopting new technology, inviting getting the
scientists in the in theuniversity to utilize something
new. If you tell them, you know,hey. We can detect EVs. We can
detect viruses. A lot of themare very reticent about it, and
they like the technologies thatthey're familiar with.
Peter O'Toole (10:12):
Okay. And Andre?
André Görgens (10:14):
There's definitely been a lot, but, I
mean, 1 that comes to mind is,moving from my PhD lab in
Germany to the lab in Sweden Iwent to to understand if it's
more because it's like a a knownlab for EV Engineering already
at that time, which was, like,7, 8 years ago already. And, 1
challenge was definitely toconvince them to use flow
(10:37):
cytometry for EVs because atthat time, it wasn't, like, a no
brainer, and it wasn't used alot and not in a good way
necessarily. So convincing themto buy a flow cytometer for me
to do my research was, somequite simple.
Peter O'Toole (10:51):
Okay. So now I said at the start that size
doesn't matter, and yet here weall are talking about size.
You've all gone down a
André Görgens (10:57):
small path in your route.
Peter O'Toole (11:01):
Are you satisfied with where we are with regards
to analysis of viable particles,EVs, small particles?
Vera Tang (11:08):
No. We gotta keep pushing.
Peter O'Toole (11:09):
Gotta keep pushing?
Vera Tang (11:10):
Gotta keep pushing.
Peter O'Toole (11:12):
Okay. Andre?
Claudia Maria Radu (11:12):
I mean
André Görgens (11:13):
Alright. Fully agree, but, I mean, it's an
exciting time. We have have madequite some progress. But I fully
agree we have to keep pushing.
Vera Tang (11:20):
And I think when it comes to viruses, there are all
a lot of sort of relevantviruses that are much smaller. A
lot of people are into CAR Tcells now. AAVs are being used
everywhere, and they are 26nanometers. So if you wanna
phenotype those, you gotta getdown.
Peter O'Toole (11:42):
It's actually I'm I'm going to widen the question.
Why is plasitometry I I it can'tdo 26 nanometers. So why is flow
cytometry so good for smallparticle analysis?
Claudia Maria Radu (11:55):
I think so that, you have, you need a basic
cytometer that go with lowranges of bees because you know
the problem of the allcytometers is to detect under,
2, 200 nanometers. And, then weremember that the technology did
(12:17):
not stop. And we need every timenew technology, new instruments
go every time lower in the rangeof, for a beast, from virus for
everything.
Peter O'Toole (12:30):
Okay. Andre?
André Görgens (12:34):
I mean, it's it's a very good fit. Of course,
there are other complementarymethods, but it's just a good
fit because it's quantitative,and it can be made very
specific. So we can run and itcan be made well at the high
throughput at the current stage.Of course, there is room for
improvement. But that means thatyou can run a lot of samples
while being sure that what youmeasure is specifically EVs or
(12:56):
other small particles, and itcan be very accurate and
quantitative.
So that's a huge advantage.
Vera Tang (13:02):
Serial particle analysis sensitivity, fast,
cheap Yep. Once you bought theinstrument, and if you think
about it, like, the sensitivitythat you get, the ability to
assess that heterogeneity in asample, they're really I mean,
how many other options arethere?
Peter O'Toole (13:22):
No one's mentioned color. Sorry? No one's
mentioned color. There's lots ofpartners and allies out there,
but the colors, aren't theyimportant?
Vera Tang (13:32):
Yes. But you're how many how many parameters are you
gonna do on an EV? Yeah. That'sthe
Claudia Maria Radu (13:37):
Oh, yes. Yeah.
Vera Tang (13:39):
Yep. That's More than 1.
Claudia Maria Radu (13:43):
That's the big small. You don't, need to
use 3, 4 colors.
Vera Tang (13:49):
But, I mean, multi parameter, I mean, with that,
that is part of the singleparticle assessing heterogeneity
aspects, I guess.
Claudia Maria Radu (13:57):
But remember, they're important to
have the possibility to sortingthis. Now we
Peter O'Toole (14:02):
can do it. How are you doing it?
Claudia Maria Radu (14:05):
With CytoFlex SRT. CytoFlex SRT. And
you can go to understand what'sinside. What is the cargo of
these AVs, flexible solarvesicles, within, next
generation sequencing with,analysis, the proteins,
(14:27):
lipidomics, proteomics.
Peter O'Toole (14:29):
And what what size are you getting down to on
an SRT there?
Claudia Maria Radu (14:33):
Now 70 70 nanometers. It's okay. Important
it to clear.
Peter O'Toole (14:39):
Yeah. I I was at a a workshop earlier today
talking about, Isaac and maybesetting up mentorship programs.
You know what? I I think we needwell, I I need mentoring because
I think there's a lot of skillsto get to that level, especially
on SRT. I think that's a reallygood point, I think, for for
Isaac to think about is gettingthese specialist areas as well.
(15:01):
And maybe it's a a Karensomewhere, I think, you know,
went on and you where was it youwent and did your shadowing with
Andres? Okay. So, again, so sowe sent off because the skill
sets for small particle there'sa lot of the sample prep side.
It's not just the analysis, isit?
André Görgens (15:23):
Definitely. Yeah. I mean, most of the time, I
think, is at least an hour leftspent on planning the
experiment, really knowing whatthe material is, and preparing
the sample before you actuallyrun the experiment. And, I mean,
if you run it for a new questionexperiment the first time, you
have to validate, like, answerquestions how you run your
(15:43):
sample and how you use yourdifferent probes. So there's a
lot of homework to do before youcan start.
Once everything is set up, youcan run pretty much a lot of
samples very fast. But the startfor any new setup is a bit more
laborious. Yeah.
Peter O'Toole (15:59):
I I remember when Coulter bought out the Nanaflex,
and I'd just seen the LegoCytoplex. And I genuinely
thought that was a no no no.Obviously, I didn't genuinely
think that was a it doesn'tmatter. It's a
Vera Tang (16:15):
Pocket cytometer?
Peter O'Toole (16:16):
Yeah. Pocket cytometer. So the next question,
someone says, do you do you nameyour cytometers? I'm gonna start
closest to me because I thinkthe answer is yes here.
Claudia Maria Radu (16:28):
Yeah. Have a name. The CytoFlex Sorting, it's
the names is, Ciccobello.
Which name?
Ciccobello is dolls from,children and, is a male. It's
very nice dolls, small dolls,and I say that it's my
(16:48):
ticselbello.
Peter O'Toole (16:50):
So you think it's your child? Yeah. Okay. Vira?
Vera Tang (16:56):
I didn't name my Cetaphlex. I did name my Astrios
at 1 point.
Peter O'Toole (17:03):
Can you repeat its name?
Vera Tang (17:05):
I named her Sybil.
Peter O'Toole (17:06):
Sorry?
Vera Tang (17:07):
I named her Sybil, the woman with the split
personality and the 7 differentpersonalities. You don't want
bad civil.
André Görgens (17:21):
I didn't name any of them. Very romantic.
Peter O'Toole (17:27):
I'm I'm never sure why they called it a MOFLOW
because it's 1 letter short of ano flow. III really I can't I
love my legacy no flow that Iused to have. I love my Astros
as well. I just quickly saythat. Then, do you know what?
This isn't a question. So Idon't know who I used to worry
(17:48):
about causing DNA damage in mycells by exposing them to UV
light source. Now I worry aboutcooking them with my infrared
light source, with the 8 to 8nanometer lasers. I think I
don't think you'll find it's notreally a big little microwave.
It's not gonna cook your sampleto 8 nanometers.
So what is your favorite tool orinstrument in your lab? I'm
(18:10):
gonna start with Viva this time.
Vera Tang (18:12):
I have all flow cytometers in my lab.
Peter O'Toole (18:16):
So which is your favorite?
Vera Tang (18:18):
Well, I can't say that.
Peter O'Toole (18:19):
Oh, you can.
Vera Tang (18:19):
It's like picking a favorite child.
Peter O'Toole (18:22):
Oh, you can then.
Vera Tang (18:25):
Whichever 1 gives me the least problems at a time. I
have to say my Cytoplix and I,we've reached. We we had some
troublesome times. We had some,you know, challenging parts of
our relationship, and now we'refinally at, you know,
equilibrium.
Peter O'Toole (18:43):
It's got over the teenager.
Vera Tang (18:45):
We right. We figured out each other.
Peter O'Toole (18:46):
I I knew I now know
Vera Tang (18:48):
what it's complaining about, and I address the issue
before it starts.
Peter O'Toole (18:54):
Andre, baby. 2 instruments.
André Görgens (18:56):
I I really also can't make, definitive choice. I
mean, depending on the purpose,they are all great to some
extent. What I definitely spentthe most time with is, on this
image stream stream and later onthe search stream just because I
used them for EV analysis earlyon and spent hours and hours
sitting. And And
Peter O'Toole (19:16):
you've got a nice YouTube on that, haven't you? So
you've got a nice new YouTubelecture.
André Görgens (19:21):
I yeah. I think there's something on YouTube
about yeah.
Peter O'Toole (19:24):
See, I've done my research.
André Görgens (19:25):
Yeah. Nice.
Peter O'Toole (19:25):
Yeah. It's not bad.
André Görgens (19:27):
Just watch the holidays.
Claudia Maria Radu (19:28):
I can't, do differences between my babies.
Sorry. It's 2. And now I waitfor the small 1, the side of Lex
Nano. I can view differences.
Peter O'Toole (19:43):
Okay. So some quick fire stations for you.
Coffee or tea? Coffee. Coffee?
Tea. Tea? Coffee. Coffee. Sorry.
Beer or wine? Beer.
Vera Tang (19:56):
Neither.
Peter O'Toole (19:57):
Neither.
Claudia Maria Radu (19:58):
Neither. Neither.
Peter O'Toole (20:01):
Scotch. Which was my next question?
Claudia Maria Radu (20:11):
Chocolate or cheese? Chocolate. Chocolate.
Chocolate. Chocolate.
What would you say?
Peter O'Toole (20:15):
Chocolate or cheese? Oh. 0. Yeah.
Vera Tang (20:17):
Chocolate. That's chocolate. Chocolate versus
cheese. Chocolate. Oh, is itchips?
André Görgens (20:22):
Oh, great. I guess cheese. Yeah.
Peter O'Toole (20:24):
Cheese. Cheese. Okay. Chocolate or chips? Just
for you.
Chips. French fries or chunkychips?
Vera Tang (20:31):
No. No. Canadian. Flat. Crispy.
Crispy. Crispy. Crispy. Crisps.
Peter O'Toole (20:36):
Oh, you need to come on. You're you're in the UK
now. Okay. Yeah. What's yourfavorite color?
André Görgens (20:45):
Blue. Blue? Blue. Yeah.
Vera Tang (20:48):
Black.
Peter O'Toole (20:48):
Black. Is that a color?
Vera Tang (20:54):
Absence of color. Pink.
Peter O'Toole (20:58):
Sorry? Pink. Pink. Floor sink. Oh.
See, you call yourselfcytometrist, and you can't even
think of choosing a coloritself. If you could change 1
thing, replace an atomically,what would you change? I'll
(21:19):
start with Andre.
André Görgens (21:22):
That's a tough 1. Yeah. Maybe making it more
widespreadly widespreadavailable to everybody,
especially postpaid instrumentsare really tough to get hands on
for people, especially innorthwestern countries.
Peter O'Toole (21:40):
Okay. So low, middle income countries
André Görgens (21:42):
Yeah.
Peter O'Toole (21:43):
Side of things. Okay.
André Görgens (21:44):
That could be changed. Would be great.
Peter O'Toole (21:45):
So, again, I'll give a plug for Isaac and the
the working group that's taskedto do in that as well.
Vera Tang (21:50):
Less mysterious, less of a black box. So people
Peter O'Toole (21:54):
I thought you liked black.
Vera Tang (21:57):
You caught. No. For just for more people to
understand that what they'reseeing is actual physical
phenomena, and it's not magic.And, you know, just don't blame
the instrument all the time whensomething goes wrong.
Peter O'Toole (22:10):
Oh, I never blame the instruments.
Vera Tang (22:12):
You never do.
Peter O'Toole (22:13):
No. I never. I blame Gavin. I had a sympathy
vote for Kevin over there. Ididn't mean that Kevin.
I meant my other Kevin. Sorry,Karen, if you're watching. I'm
joking. I meant that Karen. Itdoesn't matter.
It was Graham's fault. Claudia?
Claudia Maria Radu (22:35):
Not change anything, but, only to say to go
down with the money, to buy allother people and the possibility
to buy Sitemflex.
Peter O'Toole (22:45):
Back on the the side of the the cost and the
value of that. So actually,we've only got about 7, 8
minutes left. I'd like tointroduce, Matthew Goff from
Bettman Coulter. Where'sMatthew? So Matthew's here to do
(23:06):
a little teaser in a minute, butnot yet before we launch that
because, Matthew's also going tobe, assaulted with questions.
So, who hosts the best site ofparty?
Matthew G (23:19):
Oh, in all in all of history? I I'm sorry to my
current employer. Pre BD Flow,Joe. They had the best parties.
They did.
Peter O'Toole (23:32):
That's fine.
Mario Cox (23:34):
Oh, go on. They were here. Everybody knows. They were
here. Okay.
Alright.
Peter O'Toole (23:39):
Okay. Viva, best I best I to party. Tonight. Oh,
okay. Tonight.
Yeah. Right. Oh, great.
André Görgens (23:51):
Obviously, Beckman Coulter. Yeah.
Matthew G (24:02):
Come on. I'm gonna hear about it later.
Peter O'Toole (24:08):
When you retire, will you ever look at another
cytometer? And I'm gonna startactually at that end and come
back. Okay. Will you would youhave a look at another
cytometer?
André Görgens (24:17):
I'm pretty sure. Yeah. I mean, I don't see any
reason to never look back orsomething. I mean, it's
something I like.
Peter O'Toole (24:23):
Yeah.
André Görgens (24:24):
I would have like to have 1.
Peter O'Toole (24:26):
Okay.
André Görgens (24:26):
Hello?
Peter O'Toole (24:27):
Tim?
Vera Tang (24:28):
Sure. Why not? What's the price? For the right price?
Peter O'Toole (24:34):
Nadia.
Claudia Maria Radu (24:35):
Yes. But, I prefer CytoFlex, and I'm very
I'm very jealous for mycytometer.
Peter O'Toole (24:42):
So you're gonna retire with your CytoFlex? Yeah.
So that comes to another thingwith the longevity of the
instruments and making sure theylast a long time because you're
not that's a long way away yet.
Matthew G (24:54):
My my retirement plans involve a a van and
wineries and a cytometer, so I'mgonna keep it going. I'm gonna
André Görgens (25:01):
go go do go do
Matthew G (25:02):
the contract work and keep my hands busy.
Peter O'Toole (25:04):
So a question from last year, who's hosted the
best site home meeting as awhole? I'm gonna start with
Veera.
Vera Tang (25:14):
Vancouver, Canadian.
Peter O'Toole (25:16):
Vancouver? I thought 1 trip notice, but I
won't get oh. Claudia?
Claudia Maria Radu (25:24):
We don't do till now. Maybe Italy in the
next, future. Alright. What'sthe best,
André Görgens (25:32):
So the question was
Peter O'Toole (25:33):
what Best site check.
André Görgens (25:35):
So III liked all of the site meetings, but, I
mean, the the first 1, I think,was in for me in Boston 2017 or
something. Boston? And I Iremember that being a really
great meeting and a greatexperience to, like, see a new
world of of people being intothe same thing.
Vera Tang (25:52):
Was really good
Peter O'Toole (25:53):
to see. I'm so glad.
Vera Tang (25:54):
Yeah. That's
Peter O'Toole (25:54):
good. Matthew?
Matthew G (25:56):
I I I'm gonna defer to the crowd. I would be split
pretty hard between Vancouverand Boston. They're both pretty
excellent meetings.
Peter O'Toole (26:03):
So organizing of Edinburgh. Jury's still I need
the jury's still out.
Matthew G (26:09):
We're not coming. We're only day 1.
Peter O'Toole (26:10):
Come on. Stay with me.
Claudia Maria Radu (26:13):
We have to see the future. Italy.
Peter O'Toole (26:16):
Okay.
Vera Tang (26:16):
There you go.
Peter O'Toole (26:17):
So I I have to like so this is like a it's a
bit like a chat show host wheresomeone comes on near the end
because they're promoting theirbook. Okay? So Matthew's up here
to actually, give us a littleteaser. And, actually, if we
could just, run the video, wecan, just show the teaser for
Matt. So, Matthew, tell us aboutyour book.
(27:10):
Yeah.
Matthew G (27:15):
We've always been proud of what the Cytaflex has
been able to do, and it's notbeen lost on us that our
customers wanted to move forwardand wanted to move into a
spectral space. And, thequestion for the longest time
has been how do you get there?You know, how do you how do you
approach it from a a novelangle, you know, AAA novel, you
know, offering that is,attractive to the researchers
(27:37):
and is, you know, fundamentallydifferent than what they have
access to right now. And soafter, some time, we we found
something that we think carries,a really strong message around
sustainability, growth, theconcept of of Cytoplex in and of
itself. Right?
The ability to evolve, with yoursystem and to have your system
(27:59):
evolve with your needs. And so,we're excited to show, this
poster of our prototype system.As you can see, we have the top
half of it here. This is up andour our wonderful, Kelly
Andrews, 1 of our senior staffdevelopment scientists is here
supporting that and is happy toanswer your questions on the
(28:20):
data that we acquired. And ifyou wanna know how we acquired
it and kinda what we're workingon behind the scenes, we invite
you to our innovation suite.
We'd love to host you and, talkto you and get your feedback and
entertain some questions. Andfor those of you, if, the timing
doesn't work out and you stillwanna have that conversation,
you
Peter O'Toole (28:41):
know what's amazed me is is we see the
poster down here as well as upon the wall, and all 3 guests
were hooked on that posterlooking at it, trying to work it
out.
Matthew G (28:53):
This is a our this is a poster of 40 our 40 pillar
OMIV 69 panel,
Peter O'Toole (28:59):
run on
Matthew G (29:00):
our our 88, detector, prototype system. 88. 88. Yep.
88.
88 detectors. Yep. Paired toour, Cytaflex LX.
Peter O'Toole (29:11):
So if I'm brutal I did start coming up a hard
time. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry.Everyone's doing specs for
Matthew G (29:19):
That's true.
Peter O'Toole (29:20):
So what's different?
Matthew G (29:22):
Yeah. I think the approach is I think the approach
is different. I think going atthis from, the direction of, you
know, I I'll brag a little bit.We're very proud of this. The
middle of last year, wecelebrated the 10000th sale of a
CytoFlex or of a Flexinstrument.
Right? And that's across anincredible portfolio, including
the CytoFlex SLX, DXFlex, andSRT. And now with the Nano
(29:46):
coming into Vogue in the lastmonth, we saw an opportunity to
enhance, enhance the analyticalpower that our customers have
access to right now, and achance to offer an incredible
value proposition to customersthat want to start in a
particular place and grow intoanother, or customers that are
(30:06):
looking for, you know, fullscale additional capabilities
that aren't available in themarket right now.
Peter O'Toole (30:13):
That sounds cool, but you've got the post.
Claudia Maria Radu (30:16):
But how
Peter O'Toole (30:17):
III I'm intrigued because it has taken a time.
Matthew G (30:21):
It has taken a few steps. So
Peter O'Toole (30:23):
what was so hard about getting it there?
Matthew G (30:26):
I don't think that it was technically hard. I think
what was hard was presentingsomething that was actually
novel. Right? In an approach, Ithink, it's it's not hard to put
more lasers or more detectors onan instrument. I don't I don't
think that that's aninsurmountable task at all.
I think that building andsustaining a software system and
coming up with a way to solveproblems that exist. Right?
(30:47):
Coming up with a a new algorithmstrategy, coming up with an
approach, to make something, youknow, financially and
technically accessible. Right?That's what we're really focused
on.
I I don't I don't think thatit's it's entirely difficult to
just, you know, build in yourbox. I think what's difficult is
to look at other challenges thatexist in flow cytometry. You
know, namely the questions thatwe see from the community,
(31:09):
questions about sustainability,questions about accessibility.
Peter O'Toole (31:13):
K. So I think there's a poster to go and see
about this. Do anything else youwanna add to this?
Matthew G (31:19):
No. We're we're really excited about this, and
we're really excited to to showyou what we've done to to pair
with, those of you that thatwanna pair with us and to see
what we can do in the future.It's got incredible potential,
and we can't wait to see what itcan do in your hands.
Peter O'Toole (31:33):
K. Interesting?
André Görgens (31:36):
Yes. Definitely interesting. But it has an auto
center, though.
Peter O'Toole (31:40):
Will it
André Görgens (31:41):
have an auto center?
Matthew G (31:42):
Well, it's yeah. It it does. You know, it's a it's
an extension of our LX and our splatform, so it does have an
auto sampler That's great.Already ready to go.
André Görgens (31:51):
Just hoping you
Peter O'Toole (31:52):
had to be Yeah. No.
Matthew G (31:52):
We haven't talked. Be right.
Vera Tang (31:55):
So you're saying my existing LX or s can be
upgraded?
Matthew G (32:01):
I'm saying that your existing s or LX can be
upgraded. And, don't don't thinkof this as a classic, like, tear
the guts out, change it upgrade.This is an additional
capability.
André Görgens (32:11):
Cool. So
Claudia Maria Radu (32:13):
Very interesting. Just I have to
found other money to buy
Peter O'Toole (32:18):
it. Okay. It was tiny. How much is it gonna cost?
I was waiting for you to askthat question.
And then it says way tooexpensive. It needs to be lower.
Think about that and the serviceneeds. What about service
contract price?
Matthew G (32:29):
Well, we're still in the midst of figuring out all
the numbers on the back end,but, we expect to be able to,
put it well within customerexpectations. You know, we do we
are reaching out to customersand getting an idea of what is
the right price, what is theright price. I
Peter O'Toole (32:42):
so you go okay. So so what's the right price in
the service contract? I'm gonnago with the beaver issue. You're
pressing on service. What wouldbe the right price for service
contract?
Vera Tang (32:50):
Well, I think right now industry standards is 10% of
purchase price. Nice.
Peter O'Toole (32:55):
Not in the UK. What is my you don't see my I I
was on the yeah. You shouldnever be 10% to a postage price
because it's ridiculous. Andactually, in the UK, for the
microscopy world, it's about 3 ahalf percent. It depends what's
on it.
And actually, I think the UK ispretty I I think Coulter
applaud. Actually, at thispoint, service contracts in the
(33:17):
UK aren't outrageous.
Vera Tang (33:19):
Why is that?
Peter O'Toole (33:20):
Maybe we negotiate. Maybe they sell it to
us for a lot more. Maybe we'reoverpaying for the product to
start with. I don't know.
Matthew G (33:31):
I am, this is this is where I get to pull the object
for it. I'm a I'm a I'm a boxand product guy, you know,
service is a service has its ownproduct, and it has its own life
cycle and its own, you know,conversations with customers. So
that's something that
Peter O'Toole (33:45):
we can
Vera Tang (33:46):
There's not been enough scotch for this
Peter O'Toole (33:50):
And that's a beautiful taste. So actually so
now we do have whiskey tastingat the back end of so as you go
out in the back corner, we thenso go chase some whiskey, and we
then have a ceilidh running inhere for your it's a bit like
flow cytometry dynamics. Okay?If it's a lot of turbulence, it
goes back to the lungs. Theywon't synchronize.
(34:11):
It's fast enough.
André Görgens (34:12):
That's right.
Peter O'Toole (34:13):
So I think if you could all join me, please, to
thank our guests this evening.And finally, a big thank you to
Bettman Coulter for theentertainment and the hosting
and, their hospitality thisevening. So Bettman Coulter,
(34:34):
thank you. Enjoy your evening.
Welcome to Flowstars, candid conversations
between doctor Peter O'Toole andthe big hitters of flow
cytometry, brought to you byBeckman Coulter at Bite Size
Bio.
Peter O'Toole (00:11):
In this special episode of Flowstars recorded
live in Edinburgh, cyto 2024with special guests. We discuss
some of the leading topics inflow cytometry including what
changes cytometrists would liketo see.
André Görgens (00:24):
Maybe making it more widespreadly widespread
available to everybody,especially positive instruments
are really tough to get hands onfor people, especially in
northwestern countries.
Peter O'Toole (00:38):
The importance of encouraging young researchers to
consider place cytometry as aresearch tool.
Vera Tang (00:44):
Adopting new technology, inviting getting the
scientists in the in theuniversity to utilize something
new. If you tell them, you know,hey, we can detect EVs, we can
detect viruses, A lot of themare very reticent about it, and
they like the technologies thatthey're familiar with.
Peter O'Toole (01:03):
And we reflect on the capabilities of the current
cytometers.
Claudia Maria Radu (01:07):
But remember, they're important to
have the possibility to sortingthis. Now we can do it. How are
you doing it? With the sight ofFlexa Septi.
Peter O'Toole (01:18):
All in this episode of Flow Stars.
Mario Cox (01:25):
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Hello, and a very
warm welcome to our eveningevent. Okay. Hello. Good
evening, ladies and gentlemen.
It's a great pleasure for me towelcome you to our live episode
of Flowstars here from CYTO2024. My name is Mario Cox. I'm
(01:50):
leading the global marketing andmedical scientific affairs teams
of Beckman Coulter, and we'revery happy and very fortunate to
have you all here with ustonight. My job is a very easy
1. So, my role is, to the is tointroduce our host for tonight.
And in case if you are aware ofwhat Flowstar is, you know him
(02:11):
already. If you don't know whatFlowstar is, it's a very simple
explanation. It's a podcast thatwe have started 2, 3 years ago,
Peckhamakota Life Sciences,together with BYITESAS Bio. And
Flowstars is about interviewingthese stars in flow cytometry.
And this is what Peter O'Tooleis doing.
(02:32):
So if you go to the YouTubechannel, you can learn a lot
about what happened in flowcytometry, big milestones.
You're going to see and meet themovers and shakers in flow
cytometry in our industry. Andyou get good insights into where
this technology, theapplications are going in the
future. For me, now my role, asI said, is to get us started.
(02:56):
So, therefore, it's my greatpleasure to introduce to
introduce Peter O'Toole.
Peter is the head of thetechnology facility at the
University of York. He's head ofthe, department of imaging and
cytometry. And as you know, 123,1 more, he's also the president
(03:17):
of the Royal Microscopy Society.So please join me and welcome
Peter Orteur to the stage. Thankyou.
Peter O'Toole (03:35):
Wow. You're all in the dark as far as I'm
concerned. Well, you are aboutwhat we're gonna talk about.
Okay. Evening, everybody.
Yeah. Thank you. Okay. So it isa live podcast. We will be
recording it in front of a liveaudience, so be careful of
sound, please, just for ourguests themselves.
Okay? They like to be heard, notas much as I like to be heard.
(03:58):
Okay. So the dress the easiestthing actually, I've got an easy
job because lots of you haveactually posted questions for
our guests this evening. Sothank you, Beckman Coulter, for
allowing us to do this, andthanks for everyone who's
actually sent in theirquestions.
If you're happy to actually putyour hand up when I talk about
your question, please do. I betno 1 does. Okay. So our first
(04:19):
guest for this evening isClaudio Radu from Italy. We have
Beaver Tongue from Canada.
(04:40):
And Andre Gorgens from Sweden.See, III did get all your
questions. So I thought,actually, the first bit of the
evening is they all havesomething in common, is that
(05:01):
none of them think that sizematters. So we're like, I think
there's a commonality that, youknow, it's bigger than to
everything, and they're all intothe small and beautiful things,
the small particles. So there isactually a common theme about
this, and I thought we'd starton that especially because of
the nano system that's beencoming out.
So, actually, I'm going to askfirst. Who has a CytoFlex?
(05:26):
Claudia?
Claudia Maria Radu (05:27):
Yes. Absolutely. Not only 1.
Peter O'Toole (05:30):
Not only 1? How many?
Claudia Maria Radu (05:32):
I have a Cytoflex and Cytoflex SFP, the
sorting.
Peter O'Toole (05:36):
Oh, you have a sorting 1? Yeah. Vera?
Vera Tang (05:40):
I have 1.
Peter O'Toole (05:41):
You have 1?
Vera Tang (05:42):
I have 1. Only 1? Siblex S.
Peter O'Toole (05:45):
Okay. So the small 1. That's okay. It is a
Vera Tang (05:48):
small 1. It's dedicated for the small stuff.
Peter O'Toole (05:50):
An ombre.
André Görgens (05:53):
I don't have 10I have 1 in the core facility
nearby though that I can usewhenever I want, and I've used 1
in the lab I've been before, butnot in our own lab currently.
Peter O'Toole (06:03):
You don't have? Sorry. Contee, you have someone
to sell to. Okay. So that's 1 ofthe first audience questions
that came in was what made youselect flow cytometry as a
technology that you want to stayhours working with?
Who answered who asked thatquestion? No one's brave enough
to say yes to it. But someoneasked the same question in a
(06:27):
different way, which is whatmade you choose a career in flow
cytometry or did you choose it?So I'm gonna start with Vira on
this 1.
Vera Tang (06:36):
Did I choose it? So I have a PhD. I'm an immunologist
by training. I I did a lot ofviral immunity, always been
interested in viruses, so I'vedone a lot of flow. Did I really
want a career as a core facilitymanager?
That was not planned. But afterpost doc, the core facility
(06:57):
director at the time said, doyou want a job? And I said, yes.
I want to be employed. And 12years later, here we are.
Peter O'Toole (07:09):
And Andre?
André Görgens (07:10):
I, didn't really choose it, but I did my PhD in
hematotic stem cell biology. Sothen, yeah, consequently, you
have to use flow cytometers, andthat's where I learned and get
both in contact with flowcytometers. So, obviously, I
began to love them, love to setessays, up and, use them on a
(07:31):
daily basis. So that's how itstarted.
Peter O'Toole (07:35):
So you started in your immunology and then
differentiated into flowcytometry. I guess that's
appropriate. Claudia?
Claudia Maria Radu (07:41):
I think so that, cytometry choose me. Yeah.
Because, at the university, sayyou have to work with
extracellular vesicles. Oh, no.With the breeze?
I need something to see them.And I start with cytometry. And
excuse me. Because cytometryfrom Beckman is the only 1 that
(08:03):
work really with the with thebreeze at the the first.
Peter O'Toole (08:07):
She's not being paid to say that. That's a good
point. Okay. So, actually,there's a really interesting
question that came in. So whathurdles have you faced in your
career, and what actions haveyou actually taken to ensure
that they they they don't happenagain?
So what hurdles have you facedin your career? It's it's it's
(08:28):
it's the person you asked thatquestion in here. I knew this
would happen. No one's going toadmit to anything. We have to be
moosy on anonymity not oh, thewords that means you we don't
know who you are.
Claudia Maria Radu (08:41):
Claudia? I think so that 1 of the big
problem for all the researchersis to find funds money to buy
the
André Görgens (08:51):
instruments. Yeah.
Claudia Maria Radu (08:52):
This is the problem of all our career. You
have to work with instruments.Big big instruments with little
money or important instruments.But, I convinced my institution
to buy for me.
Peter O'Toole (09:09):
But wouldn't it be easier if they sold it as
cheaper?
Vera Tang (09:13):
No. I need service.
Claudia Maria Radu (09:17):
I need service.
Peter O'Toole (09:19):
And and actually so actually, Viva will say go
on. What did you say, Viva?
Vera Tang (09:23):
I said the service.
Peter O'Toole (09:25):
Yeah. The cost of the service. Yeah. Yeah. That
that that is a is a corefacility.
That's 1 of the biggestchallenges. Is it?
Vera Tang (09:33):
Actually, for us in Canada, it's not as hard to get
funding to buy equipment, but itis challenging to keep
supporting the equipment andgetting adequate support for our
equipment, well trainedengineers.
Peter O'Toole (09:49):
So what would you say your biggest hurdle is,
though?
Vera Tang (09:52):
Adopting new technology, inviting getting the
scientists in the in theuniversity to utilize something
new. If you tell them, you know,hey. We can detect EVs. We can
detect viruses. A lot of themare very reticent about it, and
they like the technologies thatthey're familiar with.
Peter O'Toole (10:12):
Okay. And Andre?
André Görgens (10:14):
There's definitely been a lot, but, I
mean, 1 that comes to mind is,moving from my PhD lab in
Germany to the lab in Sweden Iwent to to understand if it's
more because it's like a a knownlab for EV Engineering already
at that time, which was, like,7, 8 years ago already. And, 1
challenge was definitely toconvince them to use flow
(10:37):
cytometry for EVs because atthat time, it wasn't, like, a no
brainer, and it wasn't used alot and not in a good way
necessarily. So convincing themto buy a flow cytometer for me
to do my research was, somequite simple.
Peter O'Toole (10:51):
Okay. So now I said at the start that size
doesn't matter, and yet here weall are talking about size.
You've all gone down a
André Görgens (10:57):
small path in your route.
Peter O'Toole (11:01):
Are you satisfied with where we are with regards
to analysis of viable particles,EVs, small particles?
Vera Tang (11:08):
No. We gotta keep pushing.
Peter O'Toole (11:09):
Gotta keep pushing?
Vera Tang (11:10):
Gotta keep pushing.
Peter O'Toole (11:12):
Okay. Andre?
Claudia Maria Radu (11:12):
I mean
André Görgens (11:13):
Alright. Fully agree, but, I mean, it's an
exciting time. We have have madequite some progress. But I fully
agree we have to keep pushing.
Vera Tang (11:20):
And I think when it comes to viruses, there are all
a lot of sort of relevantviruses that are much smaller. A
lot of people are into CAR Tcells now. AAVs are being used
everywhere, and they are 26nanometers. So if you wanna
phenotype those, you gotta getdown.
Peter O'Toole (11:42):
It's actually I'm I'm going to widen the question.
Why is plasitometry I I it can'tdo 26 nanometers. So why is flow
cytometry so good for smallparticle analysis?
Claudia Maria Radu (11:55):
I think so that, you have, you need a basic
cytometer that go with lowranges of bees because you know
the problem of the allcytometers is to detect under,
2, 200 nanometers. And, then weremember that the technology did
(12:17):
not stop. And we need every timenew technology, new instruments
go every time lower in the rangeof, for a beast, from virus for
everything.
Peter O'Toole (12:30):
Okay. Andre?
André Görgens (12:34):
I mean, it's it's a very good fit. Of course,
there are other complementarymethods, but it's just a good
fit because it's quantitative,and it can be made very
specific. So we can run and itcan be made well at the high
throughput at the current stage.Of course, there is room for
improvement. But that means thatyou can run a lot of samples
while being sure that what youmeasure is specifically EVs or
(12:56):
other small particles, and itcan be very accurate and
quantitative.
So that's a huge advantage.
Vera Tang (13:02):
Serial particle analysis sensitivity, fast,
cheap Yep. Once you bought theinstrument, and if you think
about it, like, the sensitivitythat you get, the ability to
assess that heterogeneity in asample, they're really I mean,
how many other options arethere?
Peter O'Toole (13:22):
No one's mentioned color. Sorry? No one's
mentioned color. There's lots ofpartners and allies out there,
but the colors, aren't theyimportant?
Vera Tang (13:32):
Yes. But you're how many how many parameters are you
gonna do on an EV? Yeah. That'sthe
Claudia Maria Radu (13:37):
Oh, yes. Yeah.
Vera Tang (13:39):
Yep. That's More than 1.
Claudia Maria Radu (13:43):
That's the big small. You don't, need to
use 3, 4 colors.
Vera Tang (13:49):
But, I mean, multi parameter, I mean, with that,
that is part of the singleparticle assessing heterogeneity
aspects, I guess.
Claudia Maria Radu (13:57):
But remember, they're important to
have the possibility to sortingthis. Now we
Peter O'Toole (14:02):
can do it. How are you doing it?
Claudia Maria Radu (14:05):
With CytoFlex SRT. CytoFlex SRT. And
you can go to understand what'sinside. What is the cargo of
these AVs, flexible solarvesicles, within, next
generation sequencing with,analysis, the proteins,
(14:27):
lipidomics, proteomics.
Peter O'Toole (14:29):
And what what size are you getting down to on
an SRT there?
Claudia Maria Radu (14:33):
Now 70 70 nanometers. It's okay. Important
it to clear.
Peter O'Toole (14:39):
Yeah. I I was at a a workshop earlier today
talking about, Isaac and maybesetting up mentorship programs.
You know what? I I think we needwell, I I need mentoring because
I think there's a lot of skillsto get to that level, especially
on SRT. I think that's a reallygood point, I think, for for
Isaac to think about is gettingthese specialist areas as well.
(15:01):
And maybe it's a a Karensomewhere, I think, you know,
went on and you where was it youwent and did your shadowing with
Andres? Okay. So, again, so sowe sent off because the skill
sets for small particle there'sa lot of the sample prep side.
It's not just the analysis, isit?
André Görgens (15:23):
Definitely. Yeah. I mean, most of the time, I
think, is at least an hour leftspent on planning the
experiment, really knowing whatthe material is, and preparing
the sample before you actuallyrun the experiment. And, I mean,
if you run it for a new questionexperiment the first time, you
have to validate, like, answerquestions how you run your
(15:43):
sample and how you use yourdifferent probes. So there's a
lot of homework to do before youcan start.
Once everything is set up, youcan run pretty much a lot of
samples very fast. But the startfor any new setup is a bit more
laborious. Yeah.
Peter O'Toole (15:59):
I I remember when Coulter bought out the Nanaflex,
and I'd just seen the LegoCytoplex. And I genuinely
thought that was a no no no.Obviously, I didn't genuinely
think that was a it doesn'tmatter. It's a
Vera Tang (16:15):
Pocket cytometer?
Peter O'Toole (16:16):
Yeah. Pocket cytometer. So the next question,
someone says, do you do you nameyour cytometers? I'm gonna start
closest to me because I thinkthe answer is yes here.
Claudia Maria Radu (16:28):
Yeah. Have a name. The CytoFlex Sorting, it's
the names is, Ciccobello.
Which name?
Ciccobello is dolls from,children and, is a male. It's
very nice dolls, small dolls,and I say that it's my
(16:48):
ticselbello.
Peter O'Toole (16:50):
So you think it's your child? Yeah. Okay. Vira?
Vera Tang (16:56):
I didn't name my Cetaphlex. I did name my Astrios
at 1 point.
Peter O'Toole (17:03):
Can you repeat its name?
Vera Tang (17:05):
I named her Sybil.
Peter O'Toole (17:06):
Sorry?
Vera Tang (17:07):
I named her Sybil, the woman with the split
personality and the 7 differentpersonalities. You don't want
bad civil.
André Görgens (17:21):
I didn't name any of them. Very romantic.
Peter O'Toole (17:27):
I'm I'm never sure why they called it a MOFLOW
because it's 1 letter short of ano flow. III really I can't I
love my legacy no flow that Iused to have. I love my Astros
as well. I just quickly saythat. Then, do you know what?
This isn't a question. So Idon't know who I used to worry
(17:48):
about causing DNA damage in mycells by exposing them to UV
light source. Now I worry aboutcooking them with my infrared
light source, with the 8 to 8nanometer lasers. I think I
don't think you'll find it's notreally a big little microwave.
It's not gonna cook your sampleto 8 nanometers.
So what is your favorite tool orinstrument in your lab? I'm
(18:10):
gonna start with Viva this time.
Vera Tang (18:12):
I have all flow cytometers in my lab.
Peter O'Toole (18:16):
So which is your favorite?
Vera Tang (18:18):
Well, I can't say that.
Peter O'Toole (18:19):
Oh, you can.
Vera Tang (18:19):
It's like picking a favorite child.
Peter O'Toole (18:22):
Oh, you can then.
Vera Tang (18:25):
Whichever 1 gives me the least problems at a time. I
have to say my Cytoplix and I,we've reached. We we had some
troublesome times. We had some,you know, challenging parts of
our relationship, and now we'refinally at, you know,
equilibrium.
Peter O'Toole (18:43):
It's got over the teenager.
Vera Tang (18:45):
We right. We figured out each other.
Peter O'Toole (18:46):
I I knew I now know
Vera Tang (18:48):
what it's complaining about, and I address the issue
before it starts.
Peter O'Toole (18:54):
Andre, baby. 2 instruments.
André Görgens (18:56):
I I really also can't make, definitive choice. I
mean, depending on the purpose,they are all great to some
extent. What I definitely spentthe most time with is, on this
image stream stream and later onthe search stream just because I
used them for EV analysis earlyon and spent hours and hours
sitting. And And
Peter O'Toole (19:16):
you've got a nice YouTube on that, haven't you? So
you've got a nice new YouTubelecture.
André Görgens (19:21):
I yeah. I think there's something on YouTube
about yeah.
Peter O'Toole (19:24):
See, I've done my research.
André Görgens (19:25):
Yeah. Nice.
Peter O'Toole (19:25):
Yeah. It's not bad.
André Görgens (19:27):
Just watch the holidays.
Claudia Maria Radu (19:28):
I can't, do differences between my babies.
Sorry. It's 2. And now I waitfor the small 1, the side of Lex
Nano. I can view differences.
Peter O'Toole (19:43):
Okay. So some quick fire stations for you.
Coffee or tea? Coffee. Coffee?
Tea. Tea? Coffee. Coffee. Sorry.
Beer or wine? Beer.
Vera Tang (19:56):
Neither.
Peter O'Toole (19:57):
Neither.
Claudia Maria Radu (19:58):
Neither. Neither.
Peter O'Toole (20:01):
Scotch. Which was my next question?
Claudia Maria Radu (20:11):
Chocolate or cheese? Chocolate. Chocolate.
Chocolate. Chocolate.
What would you say?
Peter O'Toole (20:15):
Chocolate or cheese? Oh. 0. Yeah.
Vera Tang (20:17):
Chocolate. That's chocolate. Chocolate versus
cheese. Chocolate. Oh, is itchips?
André Görgens (20:22):
Oh, great. I guess cheese. Yeah.
Peter O'Toole (20:24):
Cheese. Cheese. Okay. Chocolate or chips? Just
for you.
Chips. French fries or chunkychips?
Vera Tang (20:31):
No. No. Canadian. Flat. Crispy.
Crispy. Crispy. Crispy. Crisps.
Peter O'Toole (20:36):
Oh, you need to come on. You're you're in the UK
now. Okay. Yeah. What's yourfavorite color?
André Görgens (20:45):
Blue. Blue? Blue. Yeah.
Vera Tang (20:48):
Black.
Peter O'Toole (20:48):
Black. Is that a color?
Vera Tang (20:54):
Absence of color. Pink.
Peter O'Toole (20:58):
Sorry? Pink. Pink. Floor sink. Oh.
See, you call yourselfcytometrist, and you can't even
think of choosing a coloritself. If you could change 1
thing, replace an atomically,what would you change? I'll
(21:19):
start with Andre.
André Görgens (21:22):
That's a tough 1. Yeah. Maybe making it more
widespreadly widespreadavailable to everybody,
especially postpaid instrumentsare really tough to get hands on
for people, especially innorthwestern countries.
Peter O'Toole (21:40):
Okay. So low, middle income countries
André Görgens (21:42):
Yeah.
Peter O'Toole (21:43):
Side of things. Okay.
André Görgens (21:44):
That could be changed. Would be great.
Peter O'Toole (21:45):
So, again, I'll give a plug for Isaac and the
the working group that's taskedto do in that as well.
Vera Tang (21:50):
Less mysterious, less of a black box. So people
Peter O'Toole (21:54):
I thought you liked black.
Vera Tang (21:57):
You caught. No. For just for more people to
understand that what they'reseeing is actual physical
phenomena, and it's not magic.And, you know, just don't blame
the instrument all the time whensomething goes wrong.
Peter O'Toole (22:10):
Oh, I never blame the instruments.
Vera Tang (22:12):
You never do.
Peter O'Toole (22:13):
No. I never. I blame Gavin. I had a sympathy
vote for Kevin over there. Ididn't mean that Kevin.
I meant my other Kevin. Sorry,Karen, if you're watching. I'm
joking. I meant that Karen. Itdoesn't matter.
It was Graham's fault. Claudia?
Claudia Maria Radu (22:35):
Not change anything, but, only to say to go
down with the money, to buy allother people and the possibility
to buy Sitemflex.
Peter O'Toole (22:45):
Back on the the side of the the cost and the
value of that. So actually,we've only got about 7, 8
minutes left. I'd like tointroduce, Matthew Goff from
Bettman Coulter. Where'sMatthew? So Matthew's here to do
(23:06):
a little teaser in a minute, butnot yet before we launch that
because, Matthew's also going tobe, assaulted with questions.
So, who hosts the best site ofparty?
Matthew G (23:19):
Oh, in all in all of history? I I'm sorry to my
current employer. Pre BD Flow,Joe. They had the best parties.
They did.
Peter O'Toole (23:32):
That's fine.
Mario Cox (23:34):
Oh, go on. They were here. Everybody knows. They were
here. Okay.
Alright.
Peter O'Toole (23:39):
Okay. Viva, best I best I to party. Tonight. Oh,
okay. Tonight.
Yeah. Right. Oh, great.
André Görgens (23:51):
Obviously, Beckman Coulter. Yeah.
Matthew G (24:02):
Come on. I'm gonna hear about it later.
Peter O'Toole (24:08):
When you retire, will you ever look at another
cytometer? And I'm gonna startactually at that end and come
back. Okay. Will you would youhave a look at another
cytometer?
André Görgens (24:17):
I'm pretty sure. Yeah. I mean, I don't see any
reason to never look back orsomething. I mean, it's
something I like.
Peter O'Toole (24:23):
Yeah.
André Görgens (24:24):
I would have like to have 1.
Peter O'Toole (24:26):
Okay.
André Görgens (24:26):
Hello?
Peter O'Toole (24:27):
Tim?
Vera Tang (24:28):
Sure. Why not? What's the price? For the right price?
Peter O'Toole (24:34):
Nadia.
Claudia Maria Radu (24:35):
Yes. But, I prefer CytoFlex, and I'm very
I'm very jealous for mycytometer.
Peter O'Toole (24:42):
So you're gonna retire with your CytoFlex? Yeah.
So that comes to another thingwith the longevity of the
instruments and making sure theylast a long time because you're
not that's a long way away yet.
Matthew G (24:54):
My my retirement plans involve a a van and
wineries and a cytometer, so I'mgonna keep it going. I'm gonna
André Görgens (25:01):
go go do go do
Matthew G (25:02):
the contract work and keep my hands busy.
Peter O'Toole (25:04):
So a question from last year, who's hosted the
best site home meeting as awhole? I'm gonna start with
Veera.
Vera Tang (25:14):
Vancouver, Canadian.
Peter O'Toole (25:16):
Vancouver? I thought 1 trip notice, but I
won't get oh. Claudia?
Claudia Maria Radu (25:24):
We don't do till now. Maybe Italy in the
next, future. Alright. What'sthe best,
André Görgens (25:32):
So the question was
Peter O'Toole (25:33):
what Best site check.
André Görgens (25:35):
So III liked all of the site meetings, but, I
mean, the the first 1, I think,was in for me in Boston 2017 or
something. Boston? And I Iremember that being a really
great meeting and a greatexperience to, like, see a new
world of of people being intothe same thing.
Vera Tang (25:52):
Was really good
Peter O'Toole (25:53):
to see. I'm so glad.
Vera Tang (25:54):
Yeah. That's
Peter O'Toole (25:54):
good. Matthew?
Matthew G (25:56):
I I I'm gonna defer to the crowd. I would be split
pretty hard between Vancouverand Boston. They're both pretty
excellent meetings.
Peter O'Toole (26:03):
So organizing of Edinburgh. Jury's still I need
the jury's still out.
Matthew G (26:09):
We're not coming. We're only day 1.
Peter O'Toole (26:10):
Come on. Stay with me.
Claudia Maria Radu (26:13):
We have to see the future. Italy.
Peter O'Toole (26:16):
Okay.
Vera Tang (26:16):
There you go.
Peter O'Toole (26:17):
So I I have to like so this is like a it's a
bit like a chat show host wheresomeone comes on near the end
because they're promoting theirbook. Okay? So Matthew's up here
to actually, give us a littleteaser. And, actually, if we
could just, run the video, wecan, just show the teaser for
Matt. So, Matthew, tell us aboutyour book.
(27:10):
Yeah.
Matthew G (27:15):
We've always been proud of what the Cytaflex has
been able to do, and it's notbeen lost on us that our
customers wanted to move forwardand wanted to move into a
spectral space. And, thequestion for the longest time
has been how do you get there?You know, how do you how do you
approach it from a a novelangle, you know, AAA novel, you
know, offering that is,attractive to the researchers
(27:37):
and is, you know, fundamentallydifferent than what they have
access to right now. And soafter, some time, we we found
something that we think carries,a really strong message around
sustainability, growth, theconcept of of Cytoplex in and of
itself. Right?
The ability to evolve, with yoursystem and to have your system
(27:59):
evolve with your needs. And so,we're excited to show, this
poster of our prototype system.As you can see, we have the top
half of it here. This is up andour our wonderful, Kelly
Andrews, 1 of our senior staffdevelopment scientists is here
supporting that and is happy toanswer your questions on the
(28:20):
data that we acquired. And ifyou wanna know how we acquired
it and kinda what we're workingon behind the scenes, we invite
you to our innovation suite.
We'd love to host you and, talkto you and get your feedback and
entertain some questions. Andfor those of you, if, the timing
doesn't work out and you stillwanna have that conversation,
you
Peter O'Toole (28:41):
know what's amazed me is is we see the
poster down here as well as upon the wall, and all 3 guests
were hooked on that posterlooking at it, trying to work it
out.
Matthew G (28:53):
This is a our this is a poster of 40 our 40 pillar
OMIV 69 panel,
Peter O'Toole (28:59):
run on
Matthew G (29:00):
our our 88, detector, prototype system. 88. 88. Yep.
88.
88 detectors. Yep. Paired toour, Cytaflex LX.
Peter O'Toole (29:11):
So if I'm brutal I did start coming up a hard
time. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry.Everyone's doing specs for
Matthew G (29:19):
That's true.
Peter O'Toole (29:20):
So what's different?
Matthew G (29:22):
Yeah. I think the approach is I think the approach
is different. I think going atthis from, the direction of, you
know, I I'll brag a little bit.We're very proud of this. The
middle of last year, wecelebrated the 10000th sale of a
CytoFlex or of a Flexinstrument.
Right? And that's across anincredible portfolio, including
the CytoFlex SLX, DXFlex, andSRT. And now with the Nano
(29:46):
coming into Vogue in the lastmonth, we saw an opportunity to
enhance, enhance the analyticalpower that our customers have
access to right now, and achance to offer an incredible
value proposition to customersthat want to start in a
particular place and grow intoanother, or customers that are
(30:06):
looking for, you know, fullscale additional capabilities
that aren't available in themarket right now.
Peter O'Toole (30:13):
That sounds cool, but you've got the post.
Claudia Maria Radu (30:16):
But how
Peter O'Toole (30:17):
III I'm intrigued because it has taken a time.
Matthew G (30:21):
It has taken a few steps. So
Peter O'Toole (30:23):
what was so hard about getting it there?
Matthew G (30:26):
I don't think that it was technically hard. I think
what was hard was presentingsomething that was actually
novel. Right? In an approach, Ithink, it's it's not hard to put
more lasers or more detectors onan instrument. I don't I don't
think that that's aninsurmountable task at all.
I think that building andsustaining a software system and
coming up with a way to solveproblems that exist. Right?
(30:47):
Coming up with a a new algorithmstrategy, coming up with an
approach, to make something, youknow, financially and
technically accessible. Right?That's what we're really focused
on.
I I don't I don't think thatit's it's entirely difficult to
just, you know, build in yourbox. I think what's difficult is
to look at other challenges thatexist in flow cytometry. You
know, namely the questions thatwe see from the community,
(31:09):
questions about sustainability,questions about accessibility.
Peter O'Toole (31:13):
K. So I think there's a poster to go and see
about this. Do anything else youwanna add to this?
Matthew G (31:19):
No. We're we're really excited about this, and
we're really excited to to showyou what we've done to to pair
with, those of you that thatwanna pair with us and to see
what we can do in the future.It's got incredible potential,
and we can't wait to see what itcan do in your hands.
Peter O'Toole (31:33):
K. Interesting?
André Görgens (31:36):
Yes. Definitely interesting. But it has an auto
center, though.
Peter O'Toole (31:40):
Will it
André Görgens (31:41):
have an auto center?
Matthew G (31:42):
Well, it's yeah. It it does. You know, it's a it's
an extension of our LX and our splatform, so it does have an
auto sampler That's great.Already ready to go.
André Görgens (31:51):
Just hoping you
Peter O'Toole (31:52):
had to be Yeah. No.
Matthew G (31:52):
We haven't talked. Be right.
Vera Tang (31:55):
So you're saying my existing LX or s can be
upgraded?
Matthew G (32:01):
I'm saying that your existing s or LX can be
upgraded. And, don't don't thinkof this as a classic, like, tear
the guts out, change it upgrade.This is an additional
capability.
André Görgens (32:11):
Cool. So
Claudia Maria Radu (32:13):
Very interesting. Just I have to
found other money to buy
Peter O'Toole (32:18):
it. Okay. It was tiny. How much is it gonna cost?
I was waiting for you to askthat question.
And then it says way tooexpensive. It needs to be lower.
Think about that and the serviceneeds. What about service
contract price?
Matthew G (32:29):
Well, we're still in the midst of figuring out all
the numbers on the back end,but, we expect to be able to,
put it well within customerexpectations. You know, we do we
are reaching out to customersand getting an idea of what is
the right price, what is theright price. I
Peter O'Toole (32:42):
so you go okay. So so what's the right price in
the service contract? I'm gonnago with the beaver issue. You're
pressing on service. What wouldbe the right price for service
contract?
Vera Tang (32:50):
Well, I think right now industry standards is 10% of
purchase price. Nice.
Peter O'Toole (32:55):
Not in the UK. What is my you don't see my I I
was on the yeah. You shouldnever be 10% to a postage price
because it's ridiculous. Andactually, in the UK, for the
microscopy world, it's about 3 ahalf percent. It depends what's
on it.
And actually, I think the UK ispretty I I think Coulter
applaud. Actually, at thispoint, service contracts in the
(33:17):
UK aren't outrageous.
Vera Tang (33:19):
Why is that?
Peter O'Toole (33:20):
Maybe we negotiate. Maybe they sell it to
us for a lot more. Maybe we'reoverpaying for the product to
start with. I don't know.
Matthew G (33:31):
I am, this is this is where I get to pull the object
for it. I'm a I'm a I'm a boxand product guy, you know,
service is a service has its ownproduct, and it has its own life
cycle and its own, you know,conversations with customers. So
that's something that
Peter O'Toole (33:45):
we can
Vera Tang (33:46):
There's not been enough scotch for this
Peter O'Toole (33:50):
And that's a beautiful taste. So actually so
now we do have whiskey tastingat the back end of so as you go
out in the back corner, we thenso go chase some whiskey, and we
then have a ceilidh running inhere for your it's a bit like
flow cytometry dynamics. Okay?If it's a lot of turbulence, it
goes back to the lungs. Theywon't synchronize.
(34:11):
It's fast enough.
André Görgens (34:12):
That's right.
Peter O'Toole (34:13):
So I think if you could all join me, please, to
thank our guests this evening.And finally, a big thank you to
Bettman Coulter for theentertainment and the hosting
and, their hospitality thisevening. So Bettman Coulter,
(34:34):
thank you. Enjoy your evening.
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