June 11, 2024 • 32 mins
In this episode of the FMI Built-In podcast, host Scott Winstead, President of FMI Consulting, sits down with Bob Murray, former President of BOND Brothers, Inc.
Bob delves into the challenges and triumphs of leading a growing construction firm, touching on topics like talent development, maintaining core values and navigating strategic shifts. His commentary on leadership and building a team are particularly relevant in today's environment. Listen to the full conversation now.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hello, I'm Scott Winstead, FMI Consulting President.
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I'm really excited to share my conversation with Bob Murray with you.
Bob has dedicated his entire career to the construction industry, having spent the majority
of it with Bond Brothers in Boston where he eventually became president, a role he held
for 14 years.
Under his leadership, Bond grew from a smaller, local, multi-generational family business into
a major regional contractor in the Northeast with $700 million in annual revenue.
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During his time, the firm added multiple new offices and expanded into significant institutional
and energy projects throughout the region.
As an exciting second chapter, and in order to leverage his extensive expertise and give
back to the industry, I'm super excited to say that Bob is currently working with FMI
as a consultant.
During our conversation, we'll touch on lessons learned from his time at the helm of an industry-leading
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construction firm, as well as on his observations as a consultant.
Well, Bob, welcome to the show.
Thanks so much for being here.
Good morning, Scott.
Thank you for having me.
Bob, maybe just for context, will you help get things kicked off with an introduction
of Bond as well as share a bit about your career progression with the firm?
Sure, Scott.
I'd be happy to.
Bond was founded in 1907, and they were originally a civil contractor, actually installing sidewalks,
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if you can believe it.
And then in the 1920s, they started a general contracting business, and they've really
been both a vertical and horizontal contractor for over 100 years.
I joined the firm fresh out of college in my early 20s.
My original goal was to stay for at least one year, and I ended up staying for 34 and
a half years.
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So I had a really good run with the organization.
It's a company that I'm very proud of.
And I think my primary reasons for staying initially was because I really believed in
the integrity of the organization, and I believed in the people that I worked for.
But over time, my primary reason for staying was the opportunity that the company afforded
me.
(02:03):
That's great.
Well, 1907, that's relatively rarefied air.
There's not many that can say that.
It's not just the duration in terms of time, but it's also the fact that the Bond family's
been managing this business for five generations.
So when you add the five generations on top of the 100-plus years of business, it's even
more impressive in my opinion.
It's very impressive.
Maybe just to kind of build off of that, if you would share a little bit about some of
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the most significant accomplishments of the firm during your tenure there.
There's been many.
I would first say that it's all kind of a team-built solution here.
None of the accomplishments of mine alone, because it just takes a village, and in our
organization, we're a very team-centric company in the way we manage the business.
I would say, Scott, that some of the accomplishments, when I think back on my career, one thing
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I'm really proud of is just the diversification of the organization.
I think there's a lot of vertical contractors that have figured out how to diversify their
business.
There's some really great horizontal civil contractors that have figured out how to diversify
their business.
But there's not too many that can claim to be both the way Bond has been.
And that was something that was in place long before I got to the organization.
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But I think that the fact that we're able to grow that successfully, both sides of the
house, it makes us a pretty unique organization in that regard.
And it's not easy.
There's probably a reason why there's not a lot of companies that are both horizontally
and vertical at the same time.
But the fact that we're able to maintain that and to grow that the way that we did, I think,
is something I look back on.
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And I'm very proud of.
We took the entire organization from roughly 70 million to almost 700 million.
So there's a lot of growth along the way.
And with that growth comes a lot of challenges naturally, but we seem to be able to manage
through all of those challenges.
I also think when I think back on it, we are able to maintain our integrity and our core
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values despite all of that growth.
And I think a lot about that.
And I think about the importance of being true to kind of the history and the culture
of the organization, being true to your clients and to your employees.
And I think being able to maintain that through the growth is something that I really look
back at as a significant accomplishment of the organization.
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So we did grow the business, but we have the integrity and the core values today that we
had back when I started 34 plus years ago.
So I think those are accomplishments that I look back on and I feel very good about.
And I also feel good about the fact that we've created a lot of opportunities for our
employees over the years.
The company's continuing to provide great opportunities today for its employees.
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And ultimately, I also would just have to say, I think the company's always been focused
on trying to do what's best for the client and never waiving from that commitment, I
think has also been an accomplishment of the organization.
That's really impressive.
I definitely want to come back to the business model, but you mentioned something that I can't
skip over, which is just the core values and the integrity.
And if you kind of think about that as the through line for your 34 tenure and even predating
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you back to its founding, I guess I'm curious, Bob, about what's the how?
So it's easy to talk about those things.
It's easy for leaders to camp on platitudes.
But if you could point to one or two things as to how you were able to maintain those
core values and that integrity throughout the company's history.
You know, it's a very interesting question and FMI played a role in helping us with that.
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When I first started with the company, the average employee tenure was over 20 years.
That was the average.
We had some employees had been with the company for over 50 years.
So just think about when you're part of an environment for that long, the core values
are known to you.
They seep into you as a human being.
So in the early days, what the company stood for and its values, it was well understood
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by a small group of people, myself included.
As the company grew and we had to onboard more and more people, that's where I think
adhering to your core values becomes more of a challenge.
And we reached a point back 15 years ago where we were concerned about the number of people
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coming into the company and how would they understand our core values and what we stood
for.
So as part of a strategic planning process we did back and I think it was 2012, we first
set up my committee do some visioning work with us and we felt we're an inflection point
given our growth that we needed to qualify those values because we wanted to make sure
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that people coming into the company was easier for them to understand what we stood for because
it takes time to learn it through us most of us.
So we codified our core values and we put our core values on poster boards.
We speak to them.
We make them part of our leadership development program and we honor them.
And the interesting thing about core values is they usually come into play when you have
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a difficult decision to make.
That's when you have to rely on your core values and just be reminded of what you stand
for.
So we've done a lot of work to be more proactive in making sure that people understand our
core values because again as the company grows and more people are coming in, we realize
we had to be more proactive in helping them understand that.
So we work very hard at it and while the culture of the organization may differ between
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the building construction company and the civil utility business, the core values are
the same.
To your point, you really find out what the core values really are when a company or
when leaders individually get tested.
When it stops being easy, that's when you really see what's there and what the substance
is.
And our core values guide us in those moments of decision.
Right.
Well, before we get to the business model, I want to come back and just ask the flip
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side to my previous question around just accomplishments.
I'm sure it wasn't all just rainbows and unicorns for your 34 years.
I'm curious, Bob, if you could share a little bit on the flip side as to what were some
of the more significant challenges you faced as a leader during your time.
How long is the podcast going to be?
As much time as you'd like.
There are tremendous challenges.
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I think construction in general is a very challenging industry.
It's a very dynamic industry where we're placing big bets and making significant commitments
to our clients, sometimes on limited information.
So the challenges within our industry, I think are very significant just due to the dynamic
nature of the business and the business model.
(08:29):
When I look back on my particular case, Scott, I would say that some of the challenges that
I've come across, one was probably a personal challenge.
And I think it's a challenging industry has in general.
Our industry has a tendency to run a little bit on the lean side, given the financial
model that we work under.
One of the net results of that, I believe, is that we identify people early on who are
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very proficient at doing something technical like project management, superintendents,
good estimators.
And because they're technically proficient, we tap them to become leaders.
And no sooner do we do that, and they have to start, and their roles change dramatically
at that moment in time, but we don't necessarily put the new tools in their toolkit.
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So oftentimes, we'll tap people who are technically proficient to become a leader in the organization.
And I think this happened to me as well.
And then we have to find our way as leaders.
And it's bumpy and it's inefficient, and there's a lot of resets along the way.
So I think developing people, even again, reflecting back on my own journey and learning
how to be an effective leader of an organization is a significant challenge for sure.
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And I think a lot of contractors that I work with today through FMI struggle with that
very issue.
I would also say that strategy and really recognizing that to sustain our business,
we had to understand what we were aiming for.
And we had to align people around a common set of goals and strategies for the organization.
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So I think a big challenge for me was adopting a strategic mindset, not just for myself,
but for the organization as a whole.
And I will tell you today, I mean, Tony Bond is now leading yet another strategic planning
initiative for the organization, and he's doing a terrific job, I think, picking up
where I tried to leave off, where he's really making strategy part of the company's DNA.
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And there's alignment.
People know what the objectives are.
People know what the assignments are.
There's reporting out on strategy progress and accountability.
So I think adopting a strategic mindset was a big challenge for the organization, starting
with me and working its way down through the organization.
But I think we're learning how to do it and we're getting better at it all the time.
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And I do think it's a critical key to long-term success for an organization because the markets
are always very quickly changing.
So I would take that as an important one.
And then probably one of the biggest ones I think all industries face is talent, right?
Getting talent into your organization.
And my mindset around talent was always that if we were attracting the right talent, we're
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lucky to have them.
So I never had this attitude, they're lucky to have us.
My attitude was we're lucky to have them.
So we had to really make sure that we had a value proposition.
So any key person that we were talking to, we wanted to bring it to the organization,
we had to make sure there was a good reason for them to come.
And I think without a good strategy and with a little bit of growth built into your business
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plan, it's hard to make that value proposition to those talented individuals.
And it's not just bringing talent into your organization, it's also developing your talent
from within.
So I consider the people side of the business and talent development and creating career
paths, it's a welcome challenge, but it's a challenge that we have to really do a good
job with if we want to sustain our organizations.
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And then ultimately, my final big challenge that we always focused on and the company
will never stop focusing on it is just satisfying the demands of our clients.
We have to understand our clients are placing big bets as well.
There's a lot at stake for them and these contracts and these projects that we take
on.
And many years ago, we kind of shifted years and we recognized that delivering on the work
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in terms of quality, schedule, budget, safety, those were the table stakes.
And really delivering on the clients experience and their expectations was kind of the second
job.
So one was taking on the contractual commitments, but the second one was delivering on the clients'
expectations.
We focused on client satisfaction and are we delivering on their expectations?
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We had to learn to take feedback in real time.
We course correct when necessary.
So I think delivering on those commitments, but not just the contractual commitments,
but the expectations of the client has been a big challenge as well.
But again, a welcome challenge.
You know, to your point, it's interesting.
So there's the client satisfaction from the institutional side, like what's the company
or the entity that you're working for.
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And then there's the individual, the person that sits across from your project manager,
superintendent, and it's a career limiting decision.
Like which firm they hire to come in and help make this building or several projects a reality.
It's how that project goes could dictate quite a bit about their future and their success
from a career standpoint.
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So sitting in their shoes and thinking through how can I be of service to them and help them
accomplish their objectives is a pretty big mind shift for a lot of folks.
Yeah.
And I also think that given the competitive landscape that we operate in up in the Northeast
and in New England, every firm on the list that we found ourselves on was capable of
delivering the job.
And we have to be reminded of that first and foremost.
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But the organization that can do the best job on delivering on the intangibles and on
the client's expectations is the organization that's going to get the most repeat business.
And if you're built around negotiated work and repeat business, you really have to understand
what it takes to deliver on client expectations.
And I think that's really what kind of separates the highly successful negotiated contractors
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from the run of the bill contractor.
Your commentary around talent and career paths and making sure that the leadership team understands
that we're lucky to have them versus the inverse of that.
We talk a lot at FMI about this philosophy.
Have you got to recruit the ones that are already on your payroll that are already on
the team?
I would add the way I used to think about it and the way I approached it was that I actually
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thought back to my own career progression.
And I believe high potential employees want to be part of an organization that's evolving
and adapting and growing.
And I think one of the fundamental reasons why you need to grow your business is you
have to create opportunity for that talent.
And while it's a little bit of a cliche, a sub-moderate shouldn't be able to move up
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in your organization because somebody's moving out of retirement.
That's just not the right way to evolve an organization.
So I think some growth needs to be embedded in the organization to support high potential
employees and create opportunities for those individuals.
And I think it ties back to why you need to have a strategy and why you need to have a
vision.
And that's the story and the message that you work on and you share with your employees
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and they participate in all of that.
And that's why strategic planning is so important and why you have to have a plan and why you
have to implement your plan.
And I just feel like we have an obligation to our organization at the employee level.
And ultimately, it's very personally satisfying when you can tap an employee who's been with
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you and say, you're moving up and you're getting a promotion and here's your added responsibilities
and here's how your compensation is going to change.
And then you have to figure out how to support those employees on that journey as well.
And I think in our early days, we'd get the first part right, would identify the right
people, but then we had to learn how to support them in that transition.
And we work on that a lot these days.
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But I think there's a lot of personal satisfaction that comes with people being able to satisfy
their career ambitions within the organization.
It's interesting.
I've heard this from one of your former peer group members, CEO, this concept of like-minded
people seek each other out.
So energy seeks like energy.
And so a growing, thriving, innovating organization is going to create people that want to do
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those kinds of things and vice versa.
As you talk about one of the, I guess, challenges or lessons learned over the years, as you
identify those folks, you tap them on the shoulder and say congratulations, you now
got the gig.
I guess the second part of that equation, how do you equip them?
I mean, can you talk, Bob, maybe about what are the one or two or three lessons learned
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where you kind of maybe through hard knocks or whatever, but the things that you would
want to make sure are in place to make sure that you are supporting folks that are moving
up from a technical role to more of a leadership role?
Sure.
And as I mentioned earlier in our conversation, I think early on we would identify people who
are very proficient at, for example, delivering work.
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And we would tap them to become a leader.
And we realized, though, that we need to give them new tools in their toolkit.
And it took us a while to realize that.
So we have formalized leadership development within our organization and we designed a
leadership development program.
We identify competencies that we think are important for our leaders to have.
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And then we work with our individuals.
We do assessments.
We do 360s.
And then we build out competency development plans for our emerging leaders.
And what's really interesting about those competencies, they're almost all people-based.
So, it's not about product delivery anymore.
It's not about estimating.
It's not about being a good superintendent.
It's about teams, communication, team building, developing the next gen behind you.
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So, we really start to shift that conversation around managing people, helping people become
successful, having the right conversations with people.
And our people, when they go through it, they realize, boy, I really do need this.
And we try to help them along that journey.
So I think we're more purposeful today in terms of helping those leaders transition from
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being kind of a project-based leader to becoming a leader of people and a successful leader
of people.
Yeah.
It's a different part of the brain than historically has been exercised to get somebody to that
point where leadership does recognize that they can be promoted.
And I would add, Scott, that some people can make that transition easier than others.
So, you know, we're all wired a little bit differently and we all bring different skill
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sets to the table.
But, you know, some people need a little more help with that transition than others.
But ultimately, the company has to recognize as a responsibility.
You know, when you do move somebody into that leadership role, we have a responsibility
that we have to fulfill to help that person become successful.
And when I look back on it, anytime that didn't work out well in the past, I could
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quickly see where the company came up short on behalf of the individual.
So trying to be more purposeful and being proactive and recognizing the company's responsibility
in that bag, and I think is very important.
Well, just to kind of come back full circle to something you touched on earlier, as you
talked about the diversification of the business and the two lines of business, the vertical
and the horizontal, you know, I've always loved that model.
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You know, very complimentary from a risk posture, from a profit sustainability perspective,
but very different in a lot of ways.
Every company sort of has finite resources, finite capital, finite humans, finite everything.
So how you're going to allocate those resources is always a challenge for every business.
I'm curious, Bob, if you would maybe talk a little bit more about just the strategy
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and the culture of the two different types of businesses and the systems.
How did you all go about making that model work so well over the years?
Tip of the cap to my forefathers, I have to remind you that, you know, this structure
was in place before I arrived, but it was my responsibility, along with others, to grow
and evolve this structure.
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And I feel as though we did accomplish that.
Many years ago, as the company, both companies were growing, I shouldn't say both companies,
both divisions were growing because we were a single entity structure back then.
We could see that the single entity was potentially constraining the direction of each one of
the two primary divisions.
We restructured the company, we created a parent subsidiary structure, went to a shared
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service model.
What we were really trying to accomplish was that we wanted to create separate entities
because each of these businesses needed to take its own direction and go to the market
in a way that was unique to themselves.
And we didn't want to encounter them with a single entity decision-making structure.
So I think we unleashed the businesses by going to that structure.
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And a lot of decision-making got pushed into the subsidiaries.
I think we made both businesses more nimble by doing that.
So I think that was a structural decision that we made that was very helpful.
And then for people like me, who I sat in the parent company as the president of the
parent company, and I had a president of bond building construction, a gentleman named
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Frank Hayes, and the president of bond-saving utility, a gentleman named Kane Cutty.
The goal then was what's the role of the parent company and what's the role or the decision-making
that we leave to the subsidiaries?
I would say answering that question was probably 30% of my job.
A lot of discussion about what are we going to control and manage centrally, and where
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does it make more sense to delegate that control to the subsidiary leadership?
And we spent a lot of time on that.
And the company still spends a lot of time on that.
And that gets into shared services.
It gets into systems and technology decisions.
How do we report?
How do we hold accountability within each entity?
And I think what the company has learned how to do successfully is it figures out through
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spirited debate which decisions should be managed by the parent company and which decisions
should be left to the subsidiaries.
And it's a constant back and forth.
And sometimes there's some course corrections that come as a result of all of that.
But striking that balance, I think, has been the key to the sustainability and the growth
of the organization.
Well, kind of building off of what you've shared so far and the accomplishments and some
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of the challenges along the way, curious how these have helped shape your philosophy over
the years.
Well, I would say Scott, early on in my career when I was fortunate to get tapped to run
our building division in my early 30s, there was some circumstances and some health issues
in the organization that propelled my advancement in the organization a little prematurely when
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I look back on it.
And at the time, I thought leadership was I would make the decisions and get everybody
to get on my back and come along with me.
And that worked for sure a period of time.
But it eventually ran out of gas.
And as the company grew, I had to change my leadership style.
And I think I tried to change it a couple of ways.
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First one was I recognized that I didn't have all the answers.
And I had certain skill sets, but I also had certain weaknesses and I had to be self aware
about that.
And we started to build the management team.
And as a company grows, building an effective high performing management team, in my opinion,
requires two essential ingredients.
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One is that the skill sets of the people have to be complimentary.
So for example, areas that I may be weakened, I need to make sure I have a business partner
who's strong in those areas.
We have a culture where it's very comfortable to know what you're good at and what you're
not good at.
So I think building a strong management team requires self awareness and making sure that
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the people around the table compliment each other in terms of their skill sets that they
bring to the equation.
The second part of it for me is once you get the right people around the table, how do
you work together successfully?
And that's when you go from having a leadership team to a high performing leadership team.
I'm very proud of the leadership team at Bond.
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Tony's doing a great job working with that leadership team, but I would call them a very
high performing leadership team.
And for me, I broke it down to like four very basic elements.
Element number one is this team comfortable putting the hard issues on the table.
If there's fear in the room or if the management styles want to fear, they're not going to put
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the hard issues on the table.
And often when the hard issues go on the table, a mistake was made.
You have to get people comfortable putting the hard issues on the table.
That's step one.
Once the hard issues on the table, the leadership team, every voice should be heard.
I was very, very deliberate about the way we talked about those issues.
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I wanted the input from everybody in the room.
I really wanted the input from the people who are closest to the issue because I think
they were the ones who could inform us the most of whatever that particular challenge
was.
We all had to get comfortable with the fact that we will make a team decision while everybody
will be heard.
The decision might not feel like you were heard, but you were.
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But we'll make the best consensus decision for the organization.
And most importantly, Scott, when we open the door and we leave that room, we'll execute
with one voice.
And I think that's the ultimate key because once you get out into the rank and file of
the organization, if different members of the leadership team are speaking with a different
voice, it all comes apart very quickly for me.
So I think when you can get that dynamic right, I feel like Bond has that dynamic in place.
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I don't think there's any challenges that that management team can't take on that they
can't solve because they execute well as a team.
And I think that's really important.
Super helpful and great philosophy to kind of think about as you talk about, how do you
create a safe enough space to be able to really talk candidly about what really happened,
where the responsibilities are and how do we course correct?
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Easy to say, easy to say, hard to do.
I would also add that as we learned how to do that better, my particular management style
changed a lot.
I think early on, my management style was one where I was setting direction in the room
and towards the tail end of my career, all I was doing was asking pointed questions.
I can't recall the last time I had to make a final decision on anything because that
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really wasn't our management process.
We asked questions, we dialogued, we reached consensus, we execute.
And that's really the way that team is built.
And I think it's highly successful.
And I also think by adhering to a process like that, you make good middle of the ground
decisions sometimes.
You don't make extreme decisions and you always have to make good long-term decision and I
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think that process helps you get there.
As you talk about leadership and how you help people get ready and the benefits of leadership,
I'm reminded there was a quote I read a while back.
I talked about the costs of leadership.
Everybody talks about, you know, there's a myriad of books written on leadership and
the accolades of leadership and what comes to folks that are able to step into those
roles.
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But there's three things.
You'll have to make hard decisions that negatively affect people you care about.
You'll be disliked despite your best attempts to do the best for the most.
And you'll be misunderstood and won't always have the opportunity to defend yourselves.
So sort of having that Miranda warning prior to tapping somebody on the shoulder to say,
congratulations, we'd like you to step into this leadership role.
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You know, here's all the benefits.
Here's all the upside.
Here's all the pluses.
But also understand here's some of the things that come stapled to the job that you need
to be comfortable with.
Well, I would say there's a couple of things in those statements that remind me of the
way we would approach that.
My first comment would be, you have to think of what's best for the long term, nature of
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the organization, not the short term.
We're a legacy company from my perspective, and we really had to think about long term
and perpetuating this institution.
That's the way we would think about that.
Item number two, I would say, Scott, is what's best for 90% of the organization, not 10%.
You really have to think about it that way.
Sometimes when you have to make a hard people decision, it's because if you don't make
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too many people are suffering.
Let's say we part ways with a person in the organization.
It's a hard conversation to have with people, but if it's in the best interest of the larger
organization, it's a decision that you have an obligation to make.
So you think about it.
You have to think about it through those lenses, I think, to keep your decision making and
check.
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And then you made a comment about the cost of leadership.
Well, what's the cost of not having leadership?
And I always used to ask our folks, what's the cost of not doing this?
A lot of times contractors are always struggling with adding cost to their overhead because
of the business.
The financial model is so tight.
But oftentimes we have to ask ourselves, what's the real cost of not doing this or making
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this investment?
So I just think you just have to put the situations into the right context and making sure people
looking at the bigger picture and they're looking longer term and they're thinking about
the better good of the organization.
And as long as you can keep those goal posts in place, most of the time you'll make the
right decision for the organization.
And yes, sometimes those decisions are difficult.
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That's part of our job.
But also I think that we have to learn how to communicate effectively as well.
A lot of decisions get made that require communication to the organization.
Sometimes we have to get ahead of issues by getting ahead of with the communication and
learning how to communicate to the organization.
So they understand to the extent that you can sometimes things are a little bit sensitive
(30:02):
in nature.
But knowing what to communicate and when it's being proactive with your communication
can help address a lot of that as well.
Absolutely.
Well, we've talked about a lot.
I want to be respectful of your time.
I know you're very busy.
But one last question, maybe just to end on, would be just knowing what you know now.
(30:23):
What would you do differently as president?
It's anything.
One of my cliches that I like to share with people is that once they get involved in our
industry and they realize how challenging it is, I always tell them you could have done
something easier in life.
You could have become like an astronaut, for example.
The industry attracts a certain type of personality that likes a challenge and they like the tangible
(30:47):
results that we put in place.
There's something very gratifying to those of us in this industry.
I think developing people is if I had to pick one is learning how to develop people successfully
is a real critical issue for me because it's a people equation at the end of the day.
People develop it just critical.
I wish my own path was a little bit more prescribed, but we were a smaller organization
(31:12):
back then and we weren't in a position to be as prescriptive as we are today.
I would also say when I look back, best in class organizations, they're hard on themselves.
They're always improving.
They're always grinding.
They're always fixing.
They always want to get to the next level and I always tell people if you're going to
be in a best in class organization, you're going to work twice as hard as a non-best
(31:34):
in class organization.
The risk with that sometimes though is when we look back, we don't celebrate our successes
enough.
We're too focused on the improvement side of the equation and I think if I could look
back on one thing, I think there was some opportunities to celebrate some more successes.
We're too busy improving and that was probably a best that if I could do it all over again,
we'd probably spend a little more time celebrating some other success.
(31:56):
That's a great place to wrap up the conversation.
Bob, again, thanks so much for doing this.
Really enjoyed the conversation like I do every time you have a chance to catch up.
Subscribe is my pleasure.
Thank you very much.
As always, thank you so much for listening and please remember to like or subscribe
to the podcast so you don't miss an episode.
Hello, I'm Scott Winstead, FMI Consulting President.
(00:08):
I'm really excited to share my conversation with Bob Murray with you.
Bob has dedicated his entire career to the construction industry, having spent the majority
of it with Bond Brothers in Boston where he eventually became president, a role he held
for 14 years.
Under his leadership, Bond grew from a smaller, local, multi-generational family business into
a major regional contractor in the Northeast with $700 million in annual revenue.
(00:32):
During his time, the firm added multiple new offices and expanded into significant institutional
and energy projects throughout the region.
As an exciting second chapter, and in order to leverage his extensive expertise and give
back to the industry, I'm super excited to say that Bob is currently working with FMI
as a consultant.
During our conversation, we'll touch on lessons learned from his time at the helm of an industry-leading
(00:55):
construction firm, as well as on his observations as a consultant.
Well, Bob, welcome to the show.
Thanks so much for being here.
Good morning, Scott.
Thank you for having me.
Bob, maybe just for context, will you help get things kicked off with an introduction
of Bond as well as share a bit about your career progression with the firm?
Sure, Scott.
I'd be happy to.
Bond was founded in 1907, and they were originally a civil contractor, actually installing sidewalks,
(01:22):
if you can believe it.
And then in the 1920s, they started a general contracting business, and they've really
been both a vertical and horizontal contractor for over 100 years.
I joined the firm fresh out of college in my early 20s.
My original goal was to stay for at least one year, and I ended up staying for 34 and
a half years.
(01:43):
So I had a really good run with the organization.
It's a company that I'm very proud of.
And I think my primary reasons for staying initially was because I really believed in
the integrity of the organization, and I believed in the people that I worked for.
But over time, my primary reason for staying was the opportunity that the company afforded
me.
(02:03):
That's great.
Well, 1907, that's relatively rarefied air.
There's not many that can say that.
It's not just the duration in terms of time, but it's also the fact that the Bond family's
been managing this business for five generations.
So when you add the five generations on top of the 100-plus years of business, it's even
more impressive in my opinion.
It's very impressive.
Maybe just to kind of build off of that, if you would share a little bit about some of
(02:27):
the most significant accomplishments of the firm during your tenure there.
There's been many.
I would first say that it's all kind of a team-built solution here.
None of the accomplishments of mine alone, because it just takes a village, and in our
organization, we're a very team-centric company in the way we manage the business.
I would say, Scott, that some of the accomplishments, when I think back on my career, one thing
(02:52):
I'm really proud of is just the diversification of the organization.
I think there's a lot of vertical contractors that have figured out how to diversify their
business.
There's some really great horizontal civil contractors that have figured out how to diversify
their business.
But there's not too many that can claim to be both the way Bond has been.
And that was something that was in place long before I got to the organization.
(03:14):
But I think that the fact that we're able to grow that successfully, both sides of the
house, it makes us a pretty unique organization in that regard.
And it's not easy.
There's probably a reason why there's not a lot of companies that are both horizontally
and vertical at the same time.
But the fact that we're able to maintain that and to grow that the way that we did, I think,
is something I look back on.
(03:36):
And I'm very proud of.
We took the entire organization from roughly 70 million to almost 700 million.
So there's a lot of growth along the way.
And with that growth comes a lot of challenges naturally, but we seem to be able to manage
through all of those challenges.
I also think when I think back on it, we are able to maintain our integrity and our core
(03:56):
values despite all of that growth.
And I think a lot about that.
And I think about the importance of being true to kind of the history and the culture
of the organization, being true to your clients and to your employees.
And I think being able to maintain that through the growth is something that I really look
back at as a significant accomplishment of the organization.
(04:17):
So we did grow the business, but we have the integrity and the core values today that we
had back when I started 34 plus years ago.
So I think those are accomplishments that I look back on and I feel very good about.
And I also feel good about the fact that we've created a lot of opportunities for our
employees over the years.
The company's continuing to provide great opportunities today for its employees.
(04:41):
And ultimately, I also would just have to say, I think the company's always been focused
on trying to do what's best for the client and never waiving from that commitment, I
think has also been an accomplishment of the organization.
That's really impressive.
I definitely want to come back to the business model, but you mentioned something that I can't
skip over, which is just the core values and the integrity.
And if you kind of think about that as the through line for your 34 tenure and even predating
(05:04):
you back to its founding, I guess I'm curious, Bob, about what's the how?
So it's easy to talk about those things.
It's easy for leaders to camp on platitudes.
But if you could point to one or two things as to how you were able to maintain those
core values and that integrity throughout the company's history.
You know, it's a very interesting question and FMI played a role in helping us with that.
(05:27):
When I first started with the company, the average employee tenure was over 20 years.
That was the average.
We had some employees had been with the company for over 50 years.
So just think about when you're part of an environment for that long, the core values
are known to you.
They seep into you as a human being.
So in the early days, what the company stood for and its values, it was well understood
(05:52):
by a small group of people, myself included.
As the company grew and we had to onboard more and more people, that's where I think
adhering to your core values becomes more of a challenge.
And we reached a point back 15 years ago where we were concerned about the number of people
(06:13):
coming into the company and how would they understand our core values and what we stood
for.
So as part of a strategic planning process we did back and I think it was 2012, we first
set up my committee do some visioning work with us and we felt we're an inflection point
given our growth that we needed to qualify those values because we wanted to make sure
(06:34):
that people coming into the company was easier for them to understand what we stood for because
it takes time to learn it through us most of us.
So we codified our core values and we put our core values on poster boards.
We speak to them.
We make them part of our leadership development program and we honor them.
And the interesting thing about core values is they usually come into play when you have
(06:58):
a difficult decision to make.
That's when you have to rely on your core values and just be reminded of what you stand
for.
So we've done a lot of work to be more proactive in making sure that people understand our
core values because again as the company grows and more people are coming in, we realize
we had to be more proactive in helping them understand that.
So we work very hard at it and while the culture of the organization may differ between
(07:23):
the building construction company and the civil utility business, the core values are
the same.
To your point, you really find out what the core values really are when a company or
when leaders individually get tested.
When it stops being easy, that's when you really see what's there and what the substance
is.
And our core values guide us in those moments of decision.
Right.
Well, before we get to the business model, I want to come back and just ask the flip
(07:47):
side to my previous question around just accomplishments.
I'm sure it wasn't all just rainbows and unicorns for your 34 years.
I'm curious, Bob, if you could share a little bit on the flip side as to what were some
of the more significant challenges you faced as a leader during your time.
How long is the podcast going to be?
As much time as you'd like.
There are tremendous challenges.
(08:08):
I think construction in general is a very challenging industry.
It's a very dynamic industry where we're placing big bets and making significant commitments
to our clients, sometimes on limited information.
So the challenges within our industry, I think are very significant just due to the dynamic
nature of the business and the business model.
(08:29):
When I look back on my particular case, Scott, I would say that some of the challenges that
I've come across, one was probably a personal challenge.
And I think it's a challenging industry has in general.
Our industry has a tendency to run a little bit on the lean side, given the financial
model that we work under.
One of the net results of that, I believe, is that we identify people early on who are
(08:54):
very proficient at doing something technical like project management, superintendents,
good estimators.
And because they're technically proficient, we tap them to become leaders.
And no sooner do we do that, and they have to start, and their roles change dramatically
at that moment in time, but we don't necessarily put the new tools in their toolkit.
(09:14):
So oftentimes, we'll tap people who are technically proficient to become a leader in the organization.
And I think this happened to me as well.
And then we have to find our way as leaders.
And it's bumpy and it's inefficient, and there's a lot of resets along the way.
So I think developing people, even again, reflecting back on my own journey and learning
how to be an effective leader of an organization is a significant challenge for sure.
(09:39):
And I think a lot of contractors that I work with today through FMI struggle with that
very issue.
I would also say that strategy and really recognizing that to sustain our business,
we had to understand what we were aiming for.
And we had to align people around a common set of goals and strategies for the organization.
(10:01):
So I think a big challenge for me was adopting a strategic mindset, not just for myself,
but for the organization as a whole.
And I will tell you today, I mean, Tony Bond is now leading yet another strategic planning
initiative for the organization, and he's doing a terrific job, I think, picking up
where I tried to leave off, where he's really making strategy part of the company's DNA.
(10:26):
And there's alignment.
People know what the objectives are.
People know what the assignments are.
There's reporting out on strategy progress and accountability.
So I think adopting a strategic mindset was a big challenge for the organization, starting
with me and working its way down through the organization.
But I think we're learning how to do it and we're getting better at it all the time.
(10:48):
And I do think it's a critical key to long-term success for an organization because the markets
are always very quickly changing.
So I would take that as an important one.
And then probably one of the biggest ones I think all industries face is talent, right?
Getting talent into your organization.
And my mindset around talent was always that if we were attracting the right talent, we're
(11:12):
lucky to have them.
So I never had this attitude, they're lucky to have us.
My attitude was we're lucky to have them.
So we had to really make sure that we had a value proposition.
So any key person that we were talking to, we wanted to bring it to the organization,
we had to make sure there was a good reason for them to come.
And I think without a good strategy and with a little bit of growth built into your business
(11:36):
plan, it's hard to make that value proposition to those talented individuals.
And it's not just bringing talent into your organization, it's also developing your talent
from within.
So I consider the people side of the business and talent development and creating career
paths, it's a welcome challenge, but it's a challenge that we have to really do a good
job with if we want to sustain our organizations.
(11:59):
And then ultimately, my final big challenge that we always focused on and the company
will never stop focusing on it is just satisfying the demands of our clients.
We have to understand our clients are placing big bets as well.
There's a lot at stake for them and these contracts and these projects that we take
on.
And many years ago, we kind of shifted years and we recognized that delivering on the work
(12:25):
in terms of quality, schedule, budget, safety, those were the table stakes.
And really delivering on the clients experience and their expectations was kind of the second
job.
So one was taking on the contractual commitments, but the second one was delivering on the clients'
expectations.
We focused on client satisfaction and are we delivering on their expectations?
(12:50):
We had to learn to take feedback in real time.
We course correct when necessary.
So I think delivering on those commitments, but not just the contractual commitments,
but the expectations of the client has been a big challenge as well.
But again, a welcome challenge.
You know, to your point, it's interesting.
So there's the client satisfaction from the institutional side, like what's the company
or the entity that you're working for.
(13:11):
And then there's the individual, the person that sits across from your project manager,
superintendent, and it's a career limiting decision.
Like which firm they hire to come in and help make this building or several projects a reality.
It's how that project goes could dictate quite a bit about their future and their success
from a career standpoint.
(13:33):
So sitting in their shoes and thinking through how can I be of service to them and help them
accomplish their objectives is a pretty big mind shift for a lot of folks.
Yeah.
And I also think that given the competitive landscape that we operate in up in the Northeast
and in New England, every firm on the list that we found ourselves on was capable of
delivering the job.
And we have to be reminded of that first and foremost.
(13:58):
But the organization that can do the best job on delivering on the intangibles and on
the client's expectations is the organization that's going to get the most repeat business.
And if you're built around negotiated work and repeat business, you really have to understand
what it takes to deliver on client expectations.
And I think that's really what kind of separates the highly successful negotiated contractors
(14:21):
from the run of the bill contractor.
Your commentary around talent and career paths and making sure that the leadership team understands
that we're lucky to have them versus the inverse of that.
We talk a lot at FMI about this philosophy.
Have you got to recruit the ones that are already on your payroll that are already on
the team?
I would add the way I used to think about it and the way I approached it was that I actually
(14:47):
thought back to my own career progression.
And I believe high potential employees want to be part of an organization that's evolving
and adapting and growing.
And I think one of the fundamental reasons why you need to grow your business is you
have to create opportunity for that talent.
And while it's a little bit of a cliche, a sub-moderate shouldn't be able to move up
(15:08):
in your organization because somebody's moving out of retirement.
That's just not the right way to evolve an organization.
So I think some growth needs to be embedded in the organization to support high potential
employees and create opportunities for those individuals.
And I think it ties back to why you need to have a strategy and why you need to have a
vision.
And that's the story and the message that you work on and you share with your employees
(15:33):
and they participate in all of that.
And that's why strategic planning is so important and why you have to have a plan and why you
have to implement your plan.
And I just feel like we have an obligation to our organization at the employee level.
And ultimately, it's very personally satisfying when you can tap an employee who's been with
(15:53):
you and say, you're moving up and you're getting a promotion and here's your added responsibilities
and here's how your compensation is going to change.
And then you have to figure out how to support those employees on that journey as well.
And I think in our early days, we'd get the first part right, would identify the right
people, but then we had to learn how to support them in that transition.
And we work on that a lot these days.
(16:14):
But I think there's a lot of personal satisfaction that comes with people being able to satisfy
their career ambitions within the organization.
It's interesting.
I've heard this from one of your former peer group members, CEO, this concept of like-minded
people seek each other out.
So energy seeks like energy.
And so a growing, thriving, innovating organization is going to create people that want to do
(16:37):
those kinds of things and vice versa.
As you talk about one of the, I guess, challenges or lessons learned over the years, as you
identify those folks, you tap them on the shoulder and say congratulations, you now
got the gig.
I guess the second part of that equation, how do you equip them?
I mean, can you talk, Bob, maybe about what are the one or two or three lessons learned
(16:58):
where you kind of maybe through hard knocks or whatever, but the things that you would
want to make sure are in place to make sure that you are supporting folks that are moving
up from a technical role to more of a leadership role?
Sure.
And as I mentioned earlier in our conversation, I think early on we would identify people who
are very proficient at, for example, delivering work.
(17:21):
And we would tap them to become a leader.
And we realized, though, that we need to give them new tools in their toolkit.
And it took us a while to realize that.
So we have formalized leadership development within our organization and we designed a
leadership development program.
We identify competencies that we think are important for our leaders to have.
(17:43):
And then we work with our individuals.
We do assessments.
We do 360s.
And then we build out competency development plans for our emerging leaders.
And what's really interesting about those competencies, they're almost all people-based.
So, it's not about product delivery anymore.
It's not about estimating.
It's not about being a good superintendent.
It's about teams, communication, team building, developing the next gen behind you.
(18:09):
So, we really start to shift that conversation around managing people, helping people become
successful, having the right conversations with people.
And our people, when they go through it, they realize, boy, I really do need this.
And we try to help them along that journey.
So I think we're more purposeful today in terms of helping those leaders transition from
(18:29):
being kind of a project-based leader to becoming a leader of people and a successful leader
of people.
Yeah.
It's a different part of the brain than historically has been exercised to get somebody to that
point where leadership does recognize that they can be promoted.
And I would add, Scott, that some people can make that transition easier than others.
So, you know, we're all wired a little bit differently and we all bring different skill
(18:50):
sets to the table.
But, you know, some people need a little more help with that transition than others.
But ultimately, the company has to recognize as a responsibility.
You know, when you do move somebody into that leadership role, we have a responsibility
that we have to fulfill to help that person become successful.
And when I look back on it, anytime that didn't work out well in the past, I could
(19:12):
quickly see where the company came up short on behalf of the individual.
So trying to be more purposeful and being proactive and recognizing the company's responsibility
in that bag, and I think is very important.
Well, just to kind of come back full circle to something you touched on earlier, as you
talked about the diversification of the business and the two lines of business, the vertical
and the horizontal, you know, I've always loved that model.
(19:34):
You know, very complimentary from a risk posture, from a profit sustainability perspective,
but very different in a lot of ways.
Every company sort of has finite resources, finite capital, finite humans, finite everything.
So how you're going to allocate those resources is always a challenge for every business.
I'm curious, Bob, if you would maybe talk a little bit more about just the strategy
(19:57):
and the culture of the two different types of businesses and the systems.
How did you all go about making that model work so well over the years?
Tip of the cap to my forefathers, I have to remind you that, you know, this structure
was in place before I arrived, but it was my responsibility, along with others, to grow
and evolve this structure.
(20:18):
And I feel as though we did accomplish that.
Many years ago, as the company, both companies were growing, I shouldn't say both companies,
both divisions were growing because we were a single entity structure back then.
We could see that the single entity was potentially constraining the direction of each one of
the two primary divisions.
We restructured the company, we created a parent subsidiary structure, went to a shared
(20:43):
service model.
What we were really trying to accomplish was that we wanted to create separate entities
because each of these businesses needed to take its own direction and go to the market
in a way that was unique to themselves.
And we didn't want to encounter them with a single entity decision-making structure.
So I think we unleashed the businesses by going to that structure.
(21:05):
And a lot of decision-making got pushed into the subsidiaries.
I think we made both businesses more nimble by doing that.
So I think that was a structural decision that we made that was very helpful.
And then for people like me, who I sat in the parent company as the president of the
parent company, and I had a president of bond building construction, a gentleman named
(21:26):
Frank Hayes, and the president of bond-saving utility, a gentleman named Kane Cutty.
The goal then was what's the role of the parent company and what's the role or the decision-making
that we leave to the subsidiaries?
I would say answering that question was probably 30% of my job.
A lot of discussion about what are we going to control and manage centrally, and where
(21:48):
does it make more sense to delegate that control to the subsidiary leadership?
And we spent a lot of time on that.
And the company still spends a lot of time on that.
And that gets into shared services.
It gets into systems and technology decisions.
How do we report?
How do we hold accountability within each entity?
And I think what the company has learned how to do successfully is it figures out through
(22:13):
spirited debate which decisions should be managed by the parent company and which decisions
should be left to the subsidiaries.
And it's a constant back and forth.
And sometimes there's some course corrections that come as a result of all of that.
But striking that balance, I think, has been the key to the sustainability and the growth
of the organization.
Well, kind of building off of what you've shared so far and the accomplishments and some
(22:38):
of the challenges along the way, curious how these have helped shape your philosophy over
the years.
Well, I would say Scott, early on in my career when I was fortunate to get tapped to run
our building division in my early 30s, there was some circumstances and some health issues
in the organization that propelled my advancement in the organization a little prematurely when
(23:00):
I look back on it.
And at the time, I thought leadership was I would make the decisions and get everybody
to get on my back and come along with me.
And that worked for sure a period of time.
But it eventually ran out of gas.
And as the company grew, I had to change my leadership style.
And I think I tried to change it a couple of ways.
(23:23):
First one was I recognized that I didn't have all the answers.
And I had certain skill sets, but I also had certain weaknesses and I had to be self aware
about that.
And we started to build the management team.
And as a company grows, building an effective high performing management team, in my opinion,
requires two essential ingredients.
(23:46):
One is that the skill sets of the people have to be complimentary.
So for example, areas that I may be weakened, I need to make sure I have a business partner
who's strong in those areas.
We have a culture where it's very comfortable to know what you're good at and what you're
not good at.
So I think building a strong management team requires self awareness and making sure that
(24:10):
the people around the table compliment each other in terms of their skill sets that they
bring to the equation.
The second part of it for me is once you get the right people around the table, how do
you work together successfully?
And that's when you go from having a leadership team to a high performing leadership team.
I'm very proud of the leadership team at Bond.
(24:31):
Tony's doing a great job working with that leadership team, but I would call them a very
high performing leadership team.
And for me, I broke it down to like four very basic elements.
Element number one is this team comfortable putting the hard issues on the table.
If there's fear in the room or if the management styles want to fear, they're not going to put
(24:53):
the hard issues on the table.
And often when the hard issues go on the table, a mistake was made.
You have to get people comfortable putting the hard issues on the table.
That's step one.
Once the hard issues on the table, the leadership team, every voice should be heard.
I was very, very deliberate about the way we talked about those issues.
(25:14):
I wanted the input from everybody in the room.
I really wanted the input from the people who are closest to the issue because I think
they were the ones who could inform us the most of whatever that particular challenge
was.
We all had to get comfortable with the fact that we will make a team decision while everybody
will be heard.
The decision might not feel like you were heard, but you were.
(25:35):
But we'll make the best consensus decision for the organization.
And most importantly, Scott, when we open the door and we leave that room, we'll execute
with one voice.
And I think that's the ultimate key because once you get out into the rank and file of
the organization, if different members of the leadership team are speaking with a different
voice, it all comes apart very quickly for me.
So I think when you can get that dynamic right, I feel like Bond has that dynamic in place.
(26:01):
I don't think there's any challenges that that management team can't take on that they
can't solve because they execute well as a team.
And I think that's really important.
Super helpful and great philosophy to kind of think about as you talk about, how do you
create a safe enough space to be able to really talk candidly about what really happened,
where the responsibilities are and how do we course correct?
(26:24):
Easy to say, easy to say, hard to do.
I would also add that as we learned how to do that better, my particular management style
changed a lot.
I think early on, my management style was one where I was setting direction in the room
and towards the tail end of my career, all I was doing was asking pointed questions.
I can't recall the last time I had to make a final decision on anything because that
(26:47):
really wasn't our management process.
We asked questions, we dialogued, we reached consensus, we execute.
And that's really the way that team is built.
And I think it's highly successful.
And I also think by adhering to a process like that, you make good middle of the ground
decisions sometimes.
You don't make extreme decisions and you always have to make good long-term decision and I
(27:11):
think that process helps you get there.
As you talk about leadership and how you help people get ready and the benefits of leadership,
I'm reminded there was a quote I read a while back.
I talked about the costs of leadership.
Everybody talks about, you know, there's a myriad of books written on leadership and
the accolades of leadership and what comes to folks that are able to step into those
roles.
(27:32):
But there's three things.
You'll have to make hard decisions that negatively affect people you care about.
You'll be disliked despite your best attempts to do the best for the most.
And you'll be misunderstood and won't always have the opportunity to defend yourselves.
So sort of having that Miranda warning prior to tapping somebody on the shoulder to say,
congratulations, we'd like you to step into this leadership role.
(27:55):
You know, here's all the benefits.
Here's all the upside.
Here's all the pluses.
But also understand here's some of the things that come stapled to the job that you need
to be comfortable with.
Well, I would say there's a couple of things in those statements that remind me of the
way we would approach that.
My first comment would be, you have to think of what's best for the long term, nature of
(28:17):
the organization, not the short term.
We're a legacy company from my perspective, and we really had to think about long term
and perpetuating this institution.
That's the way we would think about that.
Item number two, I would say, Scott, is what's best for 90% of the organization, not 10%.
You really have to think about it that way.
Sometimes when you have to make a hard people decision, it's because if you don't make
(28:38):
too many people are suffering.
Let's say we part ways with a person in the organization.
It's a hard conversation to have with people, but if it's in the best interest of the larger
organization, it's a decision that you have an obligation to make.
So you think about it.
You have to think about it through those lenses, I think, to keep your decision making and
check.
(28:59):
And then you made a comment about the cost of leadership.
Well, what's the cost of not having leadership?
And I always used to ask our folks, what's the cost of not doing this?
A lot of times contractors are always struggling with adding cost to their overhead because
of the business.
The financial model is so tight.
But oftentimes we have to ask ourselves, what's the real cost of not doing this or making
(29:20):
this investment?
So I just think you just have to put the situations into the right context and making sure people
looking at the bigger picture and they're looking longer term and they're thinking about
the better good of the organization.
And as long as you can keep those goal posts in place, most of the time you'll make the
right decision for the organization.
And yes, sometimes those decisions are difficult.
(29:42):
That's part of our job.
But also I think that we have to learn how to communicate effectively as well.
A lot of decisions get made that require communication to the organization.
Sometimes we have to get ahead of issues by getting ahead of with the communication and
learning how to communicate to the organization.
So they understand to the extent that you can sometimes things are a little bit sensitive
(30:02):
in nature.
But knowing what to communicate and when it's being proactive with your communication
can help address a lot of that as well.
Absolutely.
Well, we've talked about a lot.
I want to be respectful of your time.
I know you're very busy.
But one last question, maybe just to end on, would be just knowing what you know now.
(30:23):
What would you do differently as president?
It's anything.
One of my cliches that I like to share with people is that once they get involved in our
industry and they realize how challenging it is, I always tell them you could have done
something easier in life.
You could have become like an astronaut, for example.
The industry attracts a certain type of personality that likes a challenge and they like the tangible
(30:47):
results that we put in place.
There's something very gratifying to those of us in this industry.
I think developing people is if I had to pick one is learning how to develop people successfully
is a real critical issue for me because it's a people equation at the end of the day.
People develop it just critical.
I wish my own path was a little bit more prescribed, but we were a smaller organization
(31:12):
back then and we weren't in a position to be as prescriptive as we are today.
I would also say when I look back, best in class organizations, they're hard on themselves.
They're always improving.
They're always grinding.
They're always fixing.
They always want to get to the next level and I always tell people if you're going to
be in a best in class organization, you're going to work twice as hard as a non-best
(31:34):
in class organization.
The risk with that sometimes though is when we look back, we don't celebrate our successes
enough.
We're too focused on the improvement side of the equation and I think if I could look
back on one thing, I think there was some opportunities to celebrate some more successes.
We're too busy improving and that was probably a best that if I could do it all over again,
we'd probably spend a little more time celebrating some other success.
(31:56):
That's a great place to wrap up the conversation.
Bob, again, thanks so much for doing this.
Really enjoyed the conversation like I do every time you have a chance to catch up.
Subscribe is my pleasure.
Thank you very much.
As always, thank you so much for listening and please remember to like or subscribe
to the podcast so you don't miss an episode.
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