The journey from frontline nurse to respected healthcare leader rarely follows a straight path. Nicole Dieudonne's story—spanning 37 years in nursing with 30+ years in leadership positions—proves that sometimes the most powerful leadership emerges from unexpected beginnings.
As a Bahamian American of Haitian and Cuban descent who became a teenage mother, Nicole's multicultural perspective infuses her approach to healthcare leadership. What began as simply "choosing something" blossomed into a passionate career where she discovered her gift for compassionate leadership. Her framework, aptly named "The Compassionate Leadership Circle," centers on creating psychological safety, practicing empathy, and—perhaps most revolutionary—prioritizing leader wellbeing.
Nicole identifies the healthcare industry's critical blind spot: while organizations invest heavily in patient experience metrics, they often neglect investing in their leaders' development and resilience. This oversight creates a troubling disconnect, as these same leaders manage multimillion-dollar budgets, oversee thousands of staff members, and directly impact patient care quality through their leadership decisions. Her insight that "when we take care of ourselves better as leaders, we're more compassionate with employees, which translates to better patient care" reveals the powerful ripple effect of leadership wellbeing.
Now pivoting toward consulting after decades in operational leadership, Nicole offers transformative advice for healthcare leaders feeling stuck: "Push the pause button. Ask yourself: Why am I stuck? What do I need to learn? How do I show up differently?" This reflective practice ensures that when you return, "the better version of you shows up"—a simple yet profound reframing that empowers leaders to reconsider their purpose and impact.
Nicole's definition of legacy transcends titles or achievements, focusing instead on showing up with intention, honesty, and trust. Her commitment to practicing unconditional love in the workplace—separating people from their actions when addressing challenges—creates the psychological safety necessary for innovation and growth in today's complex healthcare environment.
Connect with Nicole on LinkedIn to follow her journey in nursing leadership and learn how nurturing difference and exuding change can transform healthcare from the inside out.
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Follow The Brand! We hope you enjoyed learning about the latest marketing trends and strategies in Personal Branding, Business and Career Development, Financial Empowerment, Technology Innovation, and Executive Presence. To keep up with the latest insights and updates from us, be sure to follow us at 5starbdm.com. See you next time on Follow The Brand!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome everybody to the Final Brand Podcast.
This is your host, grantMcGaugh.
We're going to bring it rightback over to Miami, florida, to
one of my very, very goodfriends.
I actually met her some timeago I think it was at the Miami
Jewish Hospital down there inMiami Met her, we talked.
Then I see her over here atJackson.
We had more conversations.
(00:23):
I see her at Jackson again.
We had more conversations.
I see her at Jackson again.
We had more conversations.
I thought it would be a gooddiscussion to really understand
her career, her history and herinfluence.
That is wonderful.
So before we get started, Iwant you to introduce yourself,
nicole.
Do you mind doing that?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
introduced yourself.
Nicole, do you mind doing that?
Absolutely Good afternooneveryone.
And Grant, thank you so muchfor this opportunity.
I also actually want to thankJackson Health System and I want
to thank Dr Carol Biggs forconnecting us.
As you stated, we've met in thepast, but this reconnection was
because of Dr Carol Biggs.
I want to send the kudos andthe thank yous to her.
(01:06):
So yes, I am Nicole Giordano.
I've been in nursing forapproximately 37 years or so,
and at least 30 of them hasactually been in nursing
leadership.
So that's me in a nutshell.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Well, let's get this frame, that story.
At the beginning you were justgoing to.
I love to understand a person'sorigin story.
You know, like what got themgoing.
So, when we start at thebeginning and we want to
understand your inspiration,what inspired you to explore the
path of leadership, consultingafter decades of operational
(01:46):
leadership or nursing leadership, I should say Good question,
great question, actually.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
I am actually at a point in my career as you stated
.
I've had 30 plus years ofnursing leadership right, the
normal trajectory for a nursingleader for me.
I started as a frontline staffnurse.
I soon became.
A few years in between I becamean assistant nurse manager.
(02:13):
From that I quickly became amanager and then to associate
director of patient careservices and then director of
several different clinical areasand then director of several
different clinical areas and formost people, the natural
trajectory is now to become achief nursing officer.
That's where probably, or thechief nurse exec is actually the
(02:36):
end all.
But for me, I decided to pushthe pause button and I decided
to pivot, and I want to say alot of this pivoting, even
though it was a thought in thepast, has been due to me meeting
you and the brand strategy andblueprint that I have just
recently gone through sort ofhelped to solidify my moving
(03:00):
forward with nursing consultant.
Because of my years ofexperience, because of my
beliefs now in me being thesubject matter expert on many of
nursing areas and the nursingprofession, I think that I have
a lot to offer as a nursingconsultant.
So, yes, I am pivoting.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Well, I think you kind of nailed it there.
You have a lot to offer, andwhen we worked together, we
worked together about four orfive weeks or so and you shared
a very powerful story about yourcultural heritage, your
personal resilience and howthose experiences have shaped
your leadership philosophy today.
(03:41):
Can you share with the audiencejust a little bit about that so
they get a better understandingof who you are?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yes, Grant, I am, as I shared, a Bahamian American of
Haitian and Cuban descent,multicultural.
I came over to Florida duringmy teenage years, not
necessarily sure of what avenueor where I wanted to my career
(04:11):
paths at that time, justactually lifing right.
And, interestingly enough, Ibecame a teenage mom at an early
age.
So my life story was notnecessarily linear or designed
with a clear paths for me.
(04:32):
I chose them as I moved alongand I decided to choose nursing
as a career.
Only I just my mom alwaysinstilled in me you needed to do
something.
I'm not sure what you're goingto do, but you're going to do
something.
And education was at theforefront for my mom.
So in choosing nursing, I justchose something.
But interestingly enough, Iabsolutely fell in love with
(04:58):
nursing.
I resisted for almost a yearthe path of nursing leadership,
Thank God for the folks and I'mnot even sure Steve, I'll call
his name that believed in me andkept pushing.
And I actually absolutely fellin love with nursing leadership
(05:19):
as well, Because I also realizedthat, hey, I can still affect
what happens at the bedsideBecause I always believed in
patient care and caring forpatients, but I can actually
still do that as a leader, so Iabsolutely fell in love with
nursing leadership as well.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Well, I'm glad you did.
I know a lot of people havebenefited from you and what you
bring to the table with yournursing expertise, and you went
through a comprehensive brandblueprint process with me.
I wanted to ask you whatsurprised you the most about
your own strengths or your ownpotential?
(06:00):
It can't drill.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
So what surprised me the most about my own strengths,
grant, is that Grant is that itwas a validation for me.
It was a validation that, hey,you are strong enough for this
right, you are strong in theseparticular subject matters.
(06:22):
You, too, can do this.
What I realized was on point aswell was my potentials, my
weaknesses in the businessstrategy right, my weaknesses or
opportunities weakness, but myopportunities as it relates to
(06:44):
technology and building mymarketing platform.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
So that was always and still is a challenge for me
that I am working through achallenge for me that I am
working through, I'll tell youI'm glad you said that I feel
there's a misstep by a lot ofexecutives today whether you're
in healthcare, you're in finance, you're in technology or where
you may be that you're notutilizing the digital world the
(07:17):
way it can be, the digitalplatforms as a form of
showcasing who you are and whatyou bring to the table.
You can't just rely on a resume, a CV, a small circle of
influence to get you to thatnext level, whether it's career
development or businessdevelopment, because the world
is just moving too fast.
People do business with or hirepeople that they know, like and
(07:43):
trust.
How do you establish that nowin a digital first world?
And we kind of explored aboutthat how you can take advantage
of it.
Now, something I learned thatyou have your own framework or a
process called theCompassionate Leadership Circle,
which is a very unique programbut I want you to share because
(08:05):
this is great that you have Mostpeople.
You ask them that question sowhat's your platform, what's
your framework, what's yourprocess?
That's unique to you, and thenyou get corrected.
You have something theCompassionate Leadership Circle
and so I want you to kind ofshare that with us, you know,
(08:28):
and why now is the right timefor this kind of leadership
feeling, in your opinion.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Grant.
Another great question, anothergreat thought.
Compassionate leadership circleis actually something that we
do every day as nursing leaders,or we want to do every day as
nursing leaders, Choosing tolead with compassion.
It is a framework based uponhaving empathy, based upon
(08:54):
providing psychological safety,based upon your daily
interactions with not just youremployees, but your interactions
with yourself.
Oftentimes, as leaders, we do somuch of taking care of other
people, but we have to findcompassion and choose and sort
(09:16):
of take a look at those what'savailable to us in compassionate
leadership for not just ouremployees, for ourselves, so
that we can better lead withempathy and better lead with
care and kindness.
It is so important we have tomodel that behavior within
ourselves so that we can impartthat onto our employees.
(09:39):
So what does it actually do?
Because I've also mentionedthat I realize that leadership
still affects the patient at thebedside.
So when we take care ofourselves better as a leader and
we're compassionate and we'readdressing our employees in a
compassionate and kind way, thattranslates to compassionate
(10:01):
care to the patients at thebedside.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
It's a trickle down domino effect for everyone and
this is important Because I workin that technology world.
I work with a lot of peopleoutside of the bedside, the care
world, and they need peoplelike yourself that know the
front lines and they know thebusiness lines, the strategies
and the finance, because whenthey're developing programs or
(10:28):
they're developing applicationsthey kind of miss the mark
sometimes and because they justdon't understand what it's like
in the real world to operate inthe nursing setting right.
I want to know, from achallenging standpoint, do you
think you're going to face sometransitioning from a traditional
(10:49):
role in nurse leadership totransitioning more about you
know and bringing forth yourvisibility and influence as a
nurse consultant to help theseother?
industries really find out,because they all want to sell or
present a solution to thehealthcare world Without really
understanding all that that'shappening.
What challenges do you thinkyou're going to face as you
(11:12):
transition?
Speaker 2 (11:14):
First and foremost, believing in myself is the first
challenge.
You have to get over thathurdle, that, oh, am I right for
this?
Is this right for me?
You know, I almost want to becliche and say join the Me Too
movement, I too can do thisright.
(11:35):
In that sense, what challenges Iwill face, or I will
potentially face, is the lack ofbusiness acumen.
I have to make sure that I amknowledgeable, just as
knowledgeable as I am aboutnursing, knowledgeable about the
business of healthcareconsulting right.
So it's vast.
(11:56):
There are many avenues or thereare many lanes that you can
swim in, but what exactly is itthat you want to do?
So, knowing what it is that youwant to do, which lane that you
want to be in, and knowing thebusiness around this nursing
consultant is going to beimportant.
Me is technology, and youtouched on it before, so I'm not
(12:23):
going to belabor the point, butI will absolutely have to be
more involved in creating myplatform and making sure that
I'm visible on whicheverplatform it is, whichever
organization, nursingorganization, just sharing my
story and being present.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
I think that's so key key that you get it, you
understand that and you'rehelping everybody on all sides
of the ball that are.
You know, at the end of the day, we all want to have a better
positive health outcome forpeople and there's certain
things you can do well and thenwe find that certain you know
aspects of businesses just don'tunderstand why this is not
(13:04):
going to work.
I think you fill that gap andspeaking of gaps, we're talking
about especially doing ourprogram, a skills gap analysis.
I want to know how did thatskills gap analysis help you
first, that skills gap analysishelp you first gain clarity on
your next chapter?
Speaker 2 (13:27):
And what specific areas did you focus as far as
improvement?
So I remember I think this wasafter week two or week three you
and I reviewed this and itstood out for me because it
actually speaks to me and itresonates with me quite well.
The areas was, if I remembercorrectly, was strategic
communication, businessdevelopment, healthcare policy,
(13:49):
regulatory, which I am great at.
In healthcare, I'm great withleadership development.
The emotional intelligence partfor me, I managed to shine, I
did well.
Where my opportunities were wasagain in the business segment
of it, as well as the marketing.
(14:10):
So the skills gap for me, notonly did it provide and I thank
you for this and I thank you forthis what my opportunities were
are, but it also provided forme a roadmap on how to go about
improving those.
So now it's up to me to do thework Right.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
So the skills, the skills gap is important, not
just for me to know, but for meto work on, okay, we came up
with a brand tagline during thatprocess.
We did, and we're free, andthat was, you know, n-d.
Right, which is your initials,and that's nurturing difference
leading change.
Now, did you think thatresonated with you?
Did that like?
You got those four to fivewords?
(15:01):
Does that like just say, doesthis exude?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
who you are.
Absolutely Nursing different,exuding change Absolutely.
Again, I stumbled on nursing.
It wasn't something I said ohmy God, I'm going to grow up and
be a nurse.
However, I always find that Iwant to make a difference and I
(15:27):
always want to leave a place farbetter than I found it.
So exuding change for me is,even as a simplistic in what I
do on my day-to-day and when I'mvisiting someone.
It's just that innate in me.
So, nurturing difference,exuding change yes, for me it's
absolutely true.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
I love it.
I love it Now.
You've chosen to lead withtrust, empathy and cultural
intelligence.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
So, in your view, what do you feel is the biggest
blind spot in current healthcareleadership today the biggest
blind spot, I think, inhealthcare.
On a daily basis, the leadersare insisting on us ensuring
that we care for the patients.
(16:25):
There is a lot of effort for abetter choice of words around
patient experience and makingsure that we are measuring our
metrics or reaching our metricsand accountability.
Measuring our metrics orreaching our metrics and
accountability the blind spotfor me is the leader.
How are we taking care of theleader?
(16:46):
How much are we actuallyinvesting in our leaders so that
they can do all of those otherthings, such as meet the metrics
, ensure safe and effectivequality patient care and ensure
staff morale is held and staffare excited or happy about what
they do every single day?
(17:06):
The blind spot is the leader.
We really and truly need tofind a culture and do a culture
shift in nursing leadership,where we're caring for our
nursing leaders.
They, too, come to work on adaily basis with so much going
on, but they're expected to takecare of so many other people.
Right, they must take care ofthemselves first.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
You got what you just said there the investment.
Wherever you put in our dollars, especially if you're a leader,
you're responsible for millionsand millions of dollars in
revenue and profit and loss andthose sort of things, thousands
of employees.
But what investment do we have?
Not just always salary wise,it's the training, the
(17:52):
understanding, building culturalawareness around that.
I think what you just saidthere as far as a blind spot,
something we should take note ofand really really think through
that and say, hey, are we trulyinvesting in our leadership?
Because if you're building abuilding, these are the
linchpins or the pillars of theorganization and if it becomes
(18:14):
weak, the whole building youknow it kind of breaks down.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
So which leads me to my next question, which you know
during this whole process now,did you have a breakthrough
moment, like during your brandjourney, where everything you
felt started to click for youduring this process, yeah, wow,
yes, I think when you I thinkmaybe it was session one or two,
(18:41):
maybe session one and you saidto me and I was toggling or
between exactly what I wanted todo as director of nursing
operations, and I've done that,and I think I've done that well
and I may I still have some tolearn.
But I also have this consultantpiece and you'd ask me say,
(19:03):
nicole, write your story?
And I'm like write my story,what do you mean?
Write my story?
I've never written my own story, you know, but writing that
story, writing my story, andjust taking the time to do that
was what clicked for me.
It brought me so much clarityinto what I want to do next, or
(19:26):
what I want to be a part ofConsulting, leading change,
helping other organizationsbring forth change as a
consultant, other organizationsbring forth change as a
consultant, future stateconsulting on my own.
And you know, interestinglyenough, grant, though, it
(19:47):
brought clarity because we dothis.
I've been doing this for yearsand I think a lot of nurses do
it.
I've traveled as a interimdirector of nursing to different
organizations across the stateand it's interesting when you
hear someone's asking yououtside of your typical
(20:08):
organization for your voice andfor your opinion, as the subject
matter expert, to somethingthat's happening.
And I'm going oh my God,they're asking me Right to
something that's happening andI'm going oh my God, they're
asking me right.
So what brought me clarity waswriting that story and helping
me to connect the dots to what Iwant to do next and making sure
(20:30):
, making me aware of what it isthat I do well and what it is
that I have to offer.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Okay, working with you has been a treat for me
because I learned also.
I learned from every singleperson that I work with and I'm
always humbled by what Idiscover and find out.
People share their personalstory of wow, I just didn't, I
didn't know that.
You educate yourself.
(20:58):
These are real experiences.
Teaching youates you and youget an appreciation.
Now you had two areas what Icall your differentiation, how
you're different from othernurse leaders that might have a
similar background that you have, but you really shine in these
two areas of leadership.
(21:19):
What I call leadershipretention, how you retain
leadership.
Team well-being, which you kindof talked about even during
this podcast, how you reallylook out for the team, including
yourself as the leader.
And then cultural recovery,which I didn't know.
I said cultural recovery,system alignment.
I'm like, help me understandthat even more because you live
in this world.
(21:39):
So, yeah, if I were a nurseleader and I'm listening to this
and nurse leaders who theymight feel stuck what's one
thing you would tell them aboutreclaiming their own voice and
redefining their own success?
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Reclaiming your own voice and redefining your own
success.
First and foremost, I will saypush that pause button.
First and foremost, I will saypush that pause button.
Push that pause button becauseI think, as nursing leaders,
nursing is forever evolving andthere's always something that's
going on Right and we're movingreally, really fast because we
(22:18):
have one project, and it wouldbe a financial project or be it
a project that affects directpatient care.
We're moving rapidly.
Push the pause button and say toyourself what about me?
Why am I stuck?
What is it that I need to learn?
What is it that I need to dodifferently?
(22:38):
How do I show up differently inorder to affect the change?
Additionally, when you pushthat pause button, take a look
at what you're doing.
Are you doing it for the status, the next level, the career, or
does it really and truly makeyou happy?
Take a look within and thenreclaim.
(23:01):
Take some time out for you,take some time out for
Understanding who you are andwhat it is that you really want
to do.
Next, and it might be goingright back into what you're
doing, and that's OK, it isabsolutely fine, but at least
push the pause button every sooften so that when you show up.
(23:24):
The better version of you showsup.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
You can't even say that.
Even better, the better versionof you shows up.
All right, can we coin that?
Can we just put that up?
Yeah, the better version of youshows up.
I love that, and I'm suresomeone needed to hear that
right now.
You know why that's importantbecause it's about what you love
(23:49):
.
It's about what you're good at,right, you know what it is.
You know it's got to be able tosupport you.
And then what the world needsand the world needs more leaders
like yourself, in my humbleopinion, because you come across
as very genuine, because youare genuine, you're just being
(24:09):
who you are, which I think leadsto legacy, right, and I want to
ask you what does legacy mean,you know, for Nicole, and how
are you building a futureleadership that lasts beyond
titles and gives real impact?
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Wow, grant.
When I think legacy, I honestlythink back to my mom.
She left a legacy of showing up, being strong, showing up for
others.
I want to do the same.
I want to show up withintention.
I want to be intentional.
(24:50):
I want to have the legacy ofbeing honest, of accountability.
I want to have that legacy oftrust and I think you and I've
talked about that before, and Ithink you and I've talked about
that before Believing in people,in my other leaders, in people
(25:15):
that I meet, uplifting someone.
I want to have that legacy ofsomeone that you can come to,
someone that's helped to empowerothers to believe in themselves
and to show up to be the person, the best person that you are
this day.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
I think that is.
You know that, and I love howyou frame the story, because I
think legacy is something that'shanded down to a certain degree
, no matter good, bad ordifferent, but taking the good
of everything you experience,you know, filter through and
then present it to someone elsein a more refined, repackaged
point to get them to that nextlevel, because we all are going
(25:55):
to go through certainexperiences in life, good, bad
or indifferent that you may nothave the experience around
around and it makes you feelgood when you say you know what?
Oh, I have confidence in thisarea and I know that I can excel
in this area and do well,because I can feel myself
(26:18):
propelling myself to such alevel of expertise that it
becomes undeniable.
That's your visibility right.
You've gone through the braveframework.
Now You've gotten your brandidentity.
You've done your research right.
You see your authentic self.
You're becoming more and morevisible and now you're executing
(26:38):
the plan.
One thing I like working withyou, because it was throughout
our whole process.
You would ask me questions likeGrant, how do you see this,
grant?
What is this?
Oh, here's something I'mlooking at doing.
Give me your input.
That's when you takeaccountability right and you
become a responsible and you'reactually doing the work, because
I can't create a brand for you.
(27:00):
I reveal the brand of who youare and, as you said, because
sometimes you're working, you'redoing things for maybe a number
of years and you don't alwaysstep back and see yourself and
where you're at in this process.
Or have you really even crafteda path forward for yourself
over the next one to three tofive years and actually
(27:24):
tactfully going about that?
And when you have a blueprint,you can say, okay, where am I at
?
You know, sometimes you have topull up the road right like,
where am I at here, am Isupposed to be here?
And you look, and you look atthe compass, like when now we
look at a gps, is this, am I onthe road right?
But if you don't have thatcompass, you don't have that
blueprint, you don't have thatuh, manuscript, you're just have
(27:46):
that blueprint, you don't havethat manuscript.
You're just a little bit lost.
You seem to me as someone hasfound their rhythm.
You know what you want to do.
You're going after it.
I'm so very proud of you.
If you have any last words, Iwant to make sure that we get
everything that you feel youwant to talk about out, because
I think your story is sofantastic.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Well, thank you.
The only last parting wordsthat I would say as it wraps its
arm around compassionateleadership is that.
Another thing that's importantto me is a lesson that I've
(28:31):
learned on unconditional love.
Right, and when you say youtalk about unconditional love,
I'm talking about how we show upand how we addressed our
employees and we address eachother when we are working with
employees or we are addressingeach other.
It's not about if something'sgoing wrong, it's not about the
(28:54):
person.
We have to take the personoutside of that and just look at
the actions.
It is the actions that we wantto correct In healthcare.
Let's take a look at what it isthat we want to change Not all
of the negatives, but how do wewrap our arms around what is
positive?
How do we move forward, Whetheror not we are dealing with
(29:17):
people, whether or not we aredealing with processes, whether
or not we are dealing with largeor small systems?
How do we move forward withunconditional love for this
career called nursing and moveit to the next level?
Speaker 1 (29:35):
I think that you said that best let's move it to the
next level.
I wanna get some honestfeedback right now.
I always like doing this livediscussion for myself.
You've gone through thisframework.
You work with me now the lastfour to five to six weeks.
Would you recommend this tosomeone else?
And if you would, why would youdo that?
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Oh, absolutely.
I've already recommended it toother people and I've already
had this conversation.
I think I started recommendingit.
It just brought a conversationI found myself in the midst of
and I was sharing it, how I hadgotten so much clarity and, once
again, the writing that story,my story, really brought clarity
(30:22):
to me, really brought clarityto me.
And what I also like about theprogram is that you're not just
providing, you're providing aroadmap and a plan.
So it's not as if I'm beingleft with this information and
there's nothing to do.
There's a path.
There's still work to do.
(30:43):
It's not over, it's kind ofjust the beginning, right?
So I most definitely willrecommend this and I will most
definitely want to ask you toinvite me to come back.
Future state I want to talkabout because I am so excited
about this and following theplan when will I be next On the
(31:05):
next segment of this journey,because it's a journey.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
All right, we got to have a Nicole part too, yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Yes, 2.0.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Yeah, this is going to be wonderful.
This is great.
Now I know you have a LinkedInpresence.
I want you to tell our audiencehow to contact you, so we can
actually see a little bit ofyour journey as you progress
right, right, and so I thinkthat would be great to leave the
audience with that information.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
So I am on LinkedIn.
I am in the midst of updatingmy LinkedIn profile and, yes,
you can find me on LinkedIn.
I'm not sure there's what.
Do you call it a handle or isit hold on?
And it talks about me as adirector of nursing.
It will.
It talks about me, um what I'vedone in the past, my years of
experience and my vast years ofexperience I've traveled um
nursing operations, um linkedin.
You'll find all my skills thatI've mastered became the subject
(32:06):
matter expert in LinkedIn.
You will find my story, yeah.
You will actually find my storyon LinkedIn.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Your great story, your wonderful story.
We want your.
You say you have a daughter andyou want her to read that Like
wow.
Yes, I do have a daughter andyou want her to read that Like
wow.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Yes, I do have a daughter and I'm very she's very
proud of me.
I would love for her to readthat as well.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
We're going to make sure she does that and she can
look up all the stories.
You're going to be one of theover 200 different episodes that
we have had on the Follow BrandPodcast.
We go into our fourth year.
This is wonderful.
This is a library ofinformation and resource for
people to truly understand like,hey, what's it like to be a
nurse leader?
They can just tune into yourepisode and there's over 200
(32:58):
episodes of differentindividuals in different areas
of career development, businessdevelopment, technology and
information, personal branding,executive presence, brand
mastery.
All of that is for all of youto tune into.
You can do that at FirestarVideo.
That is the number five.
That's star S-T-A-R.
B for brand, b for development,inframasterscom.
(33:19):
I want to thank you again forbeing on the show and being a
great student of mine.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
I want to thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
You're most welcome.
Welcome everybody to the Final Brand Podcast.
This is your host, grantMcGaugh.
We're going to bring it rightback over to Miami, florida, to
one of my very, very goodfriends.
I actually met her some timeago I think it was at the Miami
Jewish Hospital down there inMiami Met her, we talked.
Then I see her over here atJackson.
We had more conversations.
(00:23):
I see her at Jackson again.
We had more conversations.
I see her at Jackson again.
We had more conversations.
I thought it would be a gooddiscussion to really understand
her career, her history and herinfluence.
That is wonderful.
So before we get started, Iwant you to introduce yourself,
nicole.
Do you mind doing that?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
introduced yourself.
Nicole, do you mind doing that?
Absolutely Good afternooneveryone.
And Grant, thank you so muchfor this opportunity.
I also actually want to thankJackson Health System and I want
to thank Dr Carol Biggs forconnecting us.
As you stated, we've met in thepast, but this reconnection was
because of Dr Carol Biggs.
I want to send the kudos andthe thank yous to her.
(01:06):
So yes, I am Nicole Giordano.
I've been in nursing forapproximately 37 years or so,
and at least 30 of them hasactually been in nursing
leadership.
So that's me in a nutshell.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Well, let's get this frame, that story.
At the beginning you were justgoing to.
I love to understand a person'sorigin story.
You know, like what got themgoing.
So, when we start at thebeginning and we want to
understand your inspiration,what inspired you to explore the
path of leadership, consultingafter decades of operational
(01:46):
leadership or nursing leadership, I should say Good question,
great question, actually.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
I am actually at a point in my career as you stated
.
I've had 30 plus years ofnursing leadership right, the
normal trajectory for a nursingleader for me.
I started as a frontline staffnurse.
I soon became.
A few years in between I becamean assistant nurse manager.
(02:13):
From that I quickly became amanager and then to associate
director of patient careservices and then director of
several different clinical areasand then director of several
different clinical areas and formost people, the natural
trajectory is now to become achief nursing officer.
That's where probably, or thechief nurse exec is actually the
(02:36):
end all.
But for me, I decided to pushthe pause button and I decided
to pivot, and I want to say alot of this pivoting, even
though it was a thought in thepast, has been due to me meeting
you and the brand strategy andblueprint that I have just
recently gone through sort ofhelped to solidify my moving
(03:00):
forward with nursing consultant.
Because of my years ofexperience, because of my
beliefs now in me being thesubject matter expert on many of
nursing areas and the nursingprofession, I think that I have
a lot to offer as a nursingconsultant.
So, yes, I am pivoting.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Well, I think you kind of nailed it there.
You have a lot to offer, andwhen we worked together, we
worked together about four orfive weeks or so and you shared
a very powerful story about yourcultural heritage, your
personal resilience and howthose experiences have shaped
your leadership philosophy today.
(03:41):
Can you share with the audiencejust a little bit about that so
they get a better understandingof who you are?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yes, Grant, I am, as I shared, a Bahamian American of
Haitian and Cuban descent,multicultural.
I came over to Florida duringmy teenage years, not
necessarily sure of what avenueor where I wanted to my career
(04:11):
paths at that time, justactually lifing right.
And, interestingly enough, Ibecame a teenage mom at an early
age.
So my life story was notnecessarily linear or designed
with a clear paths for me.
(04:32):
I chose them as I moved alongand I decided to choose nursing
as a career.
Only I just my mom alwaysinstilled in me you needed to do
something.
I'm not sure what you're goingto do, but you're going to do
something.
And education was at theforefront for my mom.
So in choosing nursing, I justchose something.
But interestingly enough, Iabsolutely fell in love with
(04:58):
nursing.
I resisted for almost a yearthe path of nursing leadership,
Thank God for the folks and I'mnot even sure Steve, I'll call
his name that believed in me andkept pushing.
And I actually absolutely fellin love with nursing leadership
(05:19):
as well, Because I also realizedthat, hey, I can still affect
what happens at the bedsideBecause I always believed in
patient care and caring forpatients, but I can actually
still do that as a leader, so Iabsolutely fell in love with
nursing leadership as well.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Well, I'm glad you did.
I know a lot of people havebenefited from you and what you
bring to the table with yournursing expertise, and you went
through a comprehensive brandblueprint process with me.
I wanted to ask you whatsurprised you the most about
your own strengths or your ownpotential?
(06:00):
It can't drill.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
So what surprised me the most about my own strengths,
grant, is that Grant is that itwas a validation for me.
It was a validation that, hey,you are strong enough for this
right, you are strong in theseparticular subject matters.
(06:22):
You, too, can do this.
What I realized was on point aswell was my potentials, my
weaknesses in the businessstrategy right, my weaknesses or
opportunities weakness, but myopportunities as it relates to
(06:44):
technology and building mymarketing platform.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
So that was always and still is a challenge for me
that I am working through achallenge for me that I am
working through, I'll tell youI'm glad you said that I feel
there's a misstep by a lot ofexecutives today whether you're
in healthcare, you're in finance, you're in technology or where
you may be that you're notutilizing the digital world the
(07:17):
way it can be, the digitalplatforms as a form of
showcasing who you are and whatyou bring to the table.
You can't just rely on a resume, a CV, a small circle of
influence to get you to thatnext level, whether it's career
development or businessdevelopment, because the world
is just moving too fast.
People do business with or hirepeople that they know, like and
(07:43):
trust.
How do you establish that nowin a digital first world?
And we kind of explored aboutthat how you can take advantage
of it.
Now, something I learned thatyou have your own framework or a
process called theCompassionate Leadership Circle,
which is a very unique programbut I want you to share because
(08:05):
this is great that you have Mostpeople.
You ask them that question sowhat's your platform, what's
your framework, what's yourprocess?
That's unique to you, and thenyou get corrected.
You have something theCompassionate Leadership Circle
and so I want you to kind ofshare that with us, you know,
(08:28):
and why now is the right timefor this kind of leadership
feeling, in your opinion.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Grant.
Another great question, anothergreat thought.
Compassionate leadership circleis actually something that we
do every day as nursing leaders,or we want to do every day as
nursing leaders, Choosing tolead with compassion.
It is a framework based uponhaving empathy, based upon
(08:54):
providing psychological safety,based upon your daily
interactions with not just youremployees, but your interactions
with yourself.
Oftentimes, as leaders, we do somuch of taking care of other
people, but we have to findcompassion and choose and sort
(09:16):
of take a look at those what'savailable to us in compassionate
leadership for not just ouremployees, for ourselves, so
that we can better lead withempathy and better lead with
care and kindness.
It is so important we have tomodel that behavior within
ourselves so that we can impartthat onto our employees.
(09:39):
So what does it actually do?
Because I've also mentionedthat I realize that leadership
still affects the patient at thebedside.
So when we take care ofourselves better as a leader and
we're compassionate and we'readdressing our employees in a
compassionate and kind way, thattranslates to compassionate
(10:01):
care to the patients at thebedside.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
It's a trickle down domino effect for everyone and
this is important Because I workin that technology world.
I work with a lot of peopleoutside of the bedside, the care
world, and they need peoplelike yourself that know the
front lines and they know thebusiness lines, the strategies
and the finance, because whenthey're developing programs or
(10:28):
they're developing applicationsthey kind of miss the mark
sometimes and because they justdon't understand what it's like
in the real world to operate inthe nursing setting right.
I want to know, from achallenging standpoint, do you
think you're going to face sometransitioning from a traditional
(10:49):
role in nurse leadership totransitioning more about you
know and bringing forth yourvisibility and influence as a
nurse consultant to help theseother?
industries really find out,because they all want to sell or
present a solution to thehealthcare world Without really
understanding all that that'shappening.
What challenges do you thinkyou're going to face as you
(11:12):
transition?
Speaker 2 (11:14):
First and foremost, believing in myself is the first
challenge.
You have to get over thathurdle, that, oh, am I right for
this?
Is this right for me?
You know, I almost want to becliche and say join the Me Too
movement, I too can do thisright.
(11:35):
In that sense, what challenges Iwill face, or I will
potentially face, is the lack ofbusiness acumen.
I have to make sure that I amknowledgeable, just as
knowledgeable as I am aboutnursing, knowledgeable about the
business of healthcareconsulting right.
So it's vast.
(11:56):
There are many avenues or thereare many lanes that you can
swim in, but what exactly is itthat you want to do?
So, knowing what it is that youwant to do, which lane that you
want to be in, and knowing thebusiness around this nursing
consultant is going to beimportant.
Me is technology, and youtouched on it before, so I'm not
(12:23):
going to belabor the point, butI will absolutely have to be
more involved in creating myplatform and making sure that
I'm visible on whicheverplatform it is, whichever
organization, nursingorganization, just sharing my
story and being present.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
I think that's so key key that you get it, you
understand that and you'rehelping everybody on all sides
of the ball that are.
You know, at the end of the day, we all want to have a better
positive health outcome forpeople and there's certain
things you can do well and thenwe find that certain you know
aspects of businesses just don'tunderstand why this is not
(13:04):
going to work.
I think you fill that gap andspeaking of gaps, we're talking
about especially doing ourprogram, a skills gap analysis.
I want to know how did thatskills gap analysis help you
first, that skills gap analysishelp you first gain clarity on
your next chapter?
Speaker 2 (13:27):
And what specific areas did you focus as far as
improvement?
So I remember I think this wasafter week two or week three you
and I reviewed this and itstood out for me because it
actually speaks to me and itresonates with me quite well.
The areas was, if I remembercorrectly, was strategic
communication, businessdevelopment, healthcare policy,
(13:49):
regulatory, which I am great at.
In healthcare, I'm great withleadership development.
The emotional intelligence partfor me, I managed to shine, I
did well.
Where my opportunities were wasagain in the business segment
of it, as well as the marketing.
(14:10):
So the skills gap for me, notonly did it provide and I thank
you for this and I thank you forthis what my opportunities were
are, but it also provided forme a roadmap on how to go about
improving those.
So now it's up to me to do thework Right.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
So the skills, the skills gap is important, not
just for me to know, but for meto work on, okay, we came up
with a brand tagline during thatprocess.
We did, and we're free, andthat was, you know, n-d.
Right, which is your initials,and that's nurturing difference
leading change.
Now, did you think thatresonated with you?
Did that like?
You got those four to fivewords?
(15:01):
Does that like just say, doesthis exude?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
who you are.
Absolutely Nursing different,exuding change Absolutely.
Again, I stumbled on nursing.
It wasn't something I said ohmy God, I'm going to grow up and
be a nurse.
However, I always find that Iwant to make a difference and I
(15:27):
always want to leave a place farbetter than I found it.
So exuding change for me is,even as a simplistic in what I
do on my day-to-day and when I'mvisiting someone.
It's just that innate in me.
So, nurturing difference,exuding change yes, for me it's
absolutely true.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
I love it.
I love it Now.
You've chosen to lead withtrust, empathy and cultural
intelligence.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
So, in your view, what do you feel is the biggest
blind spot in current healthcareleadership today the biggest
blind spot, I think, inhealthcare.
On a daily basis, the leadersare insisting on us ensuring
that we care for the patients.
(16:25):
There is a lot of effort for abetter choice of words around
patient experience and makingsure that we are measuring our
metrics or reaching our metricsand accountability.
Measuring our metrics orreaching our metrics and
accountability the blind spotfor me is the leader.
How are we taking care of theleader?
(16:46):
How much are we actuallyinvesting in our leaders so that
they can do all of those otherthings, such as meet the metrics
, ensure safe and effectivequality patient care and ensure
staff morale is held and staffare excited or happy about what
they do every single day?
(17:06):
The blind spot is the leader.
We really and truly need tofind a culture and do a culture
shift in nursing leadership,where we're caring for our
nursing leaders.
They, too, come to work on adaily basis with so much going
on, but they're expected to takecare of so many other people.
Right, they must take care ofthemselves first.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
You got what you just said there the investment.
Wherever you put in our dollars, especially if you're a leader,
you're responsible for millionsand millions of dollars in
revenue and profit and loss andthose sort of things, thousands
of employees.
But what investment do we have?
Not just always salary wise,it's the training, the
(17:52):
understanding, building culturalawareness around that.
I think what you just saidthere as far as a blind spot,
something we should take note ofand really really think through
that and say, hey, are we trulyinvesting in our leadership?
Because if you're building abuilding, these are the
linchpins or the pillars of theorganization and if it becomes
(18:14):
weak, the whole building youknow it kind of breaks down.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
So which leads me to my next question, which you know
during this whole process now,did you have a breakthrough
moment, like during your brandjourney, where everything you
felt started to click for youduring this process, yeah, wow,
yes, I think when you I thinkmaybe it was session one or two,
(18:41):
maybe session one and you saidto me and I was toggling or
between exactly what I wanted todo as director of nursing
operations, and I've done that,and I think I've done that well
and I may I still have some tolearn.
But I also have this consultantpiece and you'd ask me say,
(19:03):
nicole, write your story?
And I'm like write my story,what do you mean?
Write my story?
I've never written my own story, you know, but writing that
story, writing my story, andjust taking the time to do that
was what clicked for me.
It brought me so much clarityinto what I want to do next, or
(19:26):
what I want to be a part ofConsulting, leading change,
helping other organizationsbring forth change as a
consultant, other organizationsbring forth change as a
consultant, future stateconsulting on my own.
And you know, interestinglyenough, grant, though, it
(19:47):
brought clarity because we dothis.
I've been doing this for yearsand I think a lot of nurses do
it.
I've traveled as a interimdirector of nursing to different
organizations across the stateand it's interesting when you
hear someone's asking yououtside of your typical
(20:08):
organization for your voice andfor your opinion, as the subject
matter expert, to somethingthat's happening.
And I'm going oh my God,they're asking me Right to
something that's happening andI'm going oh my God, they're
asking me right.
So what brought me clarity waswriting that story and helping
me to connect the dots to what Iwant to do next and making sure
(20:30):
, making me aware of what it isthat I do well and what it is
that I have to offer.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Okay, working with you has been a treat for me
because I learned also.
I learned from every singleperson that I work with and I'm
always humbled by what Idiscover and find out.
People share their personalstory of wow, I just didn't, I
didn't know that.
You educate yourself.
(20:58):
These are real experiences.
Teaching youates you and youget an appreciation.
Now you had two areas what Icall your differentiation, how
you're different from othernurse leaders that might have a
similar background that you have, but you really shine in these
two areas of leadership.
(21:19):
What I call leadershipretention, how you retain
leadership.
Team well-being, which you kindof talked about even during
this podcast, how you reallylook out for the team, including
yourself as the leader.
And then cultural recovery,which I didn't know.
I said cultural recovery,system alignment.
I'm like, help me understandthat even more because you live
in this world.
(21:39):
So, yeah, if I were a nurseleader and I'm listening to this
and nurse leaders who theymight feel stuck what's one
thing you would tell them aboutreclaiming their own voice and
redefining their own success?
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Reclaiming your own voice and redefining your own
success.
First and foremost, I will saypush that pause button.
First and foremost, I will saypush that pause button.
Push that pause button becauseI think, as nursing leaders,
nursing is forever evolving andthere's always something that's
going on Right and we're movingreally, really fast because we
(22:18):
have one project, and it wouldbe a financial project or be it
a project that affects directpatient care.
We're moving rapidly.
Push the pause button and say toyourself what about me?
Why am I stuck?
What is it that I need to learn?
What is it that I need to dodifferently?
(22:38):
How do I show up differently inorder to affect the change?
Additionally, when you pushthat pause button, take a look
at what you're doing.
Are you doing it for the status, the next level, the career, or
does it really and truly makeyou happy?
Take a look within and thenreclaim.
(23:01):
Take some time out for you,take some time out for
Understanding who you are andwhat it is that you really want
to do.
Next, and it might be goingright back into what you're
doing, and that's OK, it isabsolutely fine, but at least
push the pause button every sooften so that when you show up.
(23:24):
The better version of you showsup.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
You can't even say that.
Even better, the better versionof you shows up.
All right, can we coin that?
Can we just put that up?
Yeah, the better version of youshows up.
I love that, and I'm suresomeone needed to hear that
right now.
You know why that's importantbecause it's about what you love
(23:49):
.
It's about what you're good at,right, you know what it is.
You know it's got to be able tosupport you.
And then what the world needsand the world needs more leaders
like yourself, in my humbleopinion, because you come across
as very genuine, because youare genuine, you're just being
(24:09):
who you are, which I think leadsto legacy, right, and I want to
ask you what does legacy mean,you know, for Nicole, and how
are you building a futureleadership that lasts beyond
titles and gives real impact?
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Wow, grant.
When I think legacy, I honestlythink back to my mom.
She left a legacy of showing up, being strong, showing up for
others.
I want to do the same.
I want to show up withintention.
I want to be intentional.
(24:50):
I want to have the legacy ofbeing honest, of accountability.
I want to have that legacy oftrust and I think you and I've
talked about that before, and Ithink you and I've talked about
that before Believing in people,in my other leaders, in people
(25:15):
that I meet, uplifting someone.
I want to have that legacy ofsomeone that you can come to,
someone that's helped to empowerothers to believe in themselves
and to show up to be the person, the best person that you are
this day.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
I think that is.
You know that, and I love howyou frame the story, because I
think legacy is something that'shanded down to a certain degree
, no matter good, bad ordifferent, but taking the good
of everything you experience,you know, filter through and
then present it to someone elsein a more refined, repackaged
point to get them to that nextlevel, because we all are going
(25:55):
to go through certainexperiences in life, good, bad
or indifferent that you may nothave the experience around
around and it makes you feelgood when you say you know what?
Oh, I have confidence in thisarea and I know that I can excel
in this area and do well,because I can feel myself
(26:18):
propelling myself to such alevel of expertise that it
becomes undeniable.
That's your visibility right.
You've gone through the braveframework.
Now You've gotten your brandidentity.
You've done your research right.
You see your authentic self.
You're becoming more and morevisible and now you're executing
(26:38):
the plan.
One thing I like working withyou, because it was throughout
our whole process.
You would ask me questions likeGrant, how do you see this,
grant?
What is this?
Oh, here's something I'mlooking at doing.
Give me your input.
That's when you takeaccountability right and you
become a responsible and you'reactually doing the work, because
I can't create a brand for you.
(27:00):
I reveal the brand of who youare and, as you said, because
sometimes you're working, you'redoing things for maybe a number
of years and you don't alwaysstep back and see yourself and
where you're at in this process.
Or have you really even crafteda path forward for yourself
over the next one to three tofive years and actually
(27:24):
tactfully going about that?
And when you have a blueprint,you can say, okay, where am I at
?
You know, sometimes you have topull up the road right like,
where am I at here, am Isupposed to be here?
And you look, and you look atthe compass, like when now we
look at a gps, is this, am I onthe road right?
But if you don't have thatcompass, you don't have that
blueprint, you don't have thatuh, manuscript, you're just have
(27:46):
that blueprint, you don't havethat manuscript.
You're just a little bit lost.
You seem to me as someone hasfound their rhythm.
You know what you want to do.
You're going after it.
I'm so very proud of you.
If you have any last words, Iwant to make sure that we get
everything that you feel youwant to talk about out, because
I think your story is sofantastic.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Well, thank you.
The only last parting wordsthat I would say as it wraps its
arm around compassionateleadership is that.
Another thing that's importantto me is a lesson that I've
(28:31):
learned on unconditional love.
Right, and when you say youtalk about unconditional love,
I'm talking about how we show upand how we addressed our
employees and we address eachother when we are working with
employees or we are addressingeach other.
It's not about if something'sgoing wrong, it's not about the
(28:54):
person.
We have to take the personoutside of that and just look at
the actions.
It is the actions that we wantto correct In healthcare.
Let's take a look at what it isthat we want to change Not all
of the negatives, but how do wewrap our arms around what is
positive?
How do we move forward, Whetheror not we are dealing with
(29:17):
people, whether or not we aredealing with processes, whether
or not we are dealing with largeor small systems?
How do we move forward withunconditional love for this
career called nursing and moveit to the next level?
Speaker 1 (29:35):
I think that you said that best let's move it to the
next level.
I wanna get some honestfeedback right now.
I always like doing this livediscussion for myself.
You've gone through thisframework.
You work with me now the lastfour to five to six weeks.
Would you recommend this tosomeone else?
And if you would, why would youdo that?
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Oh, absolutely.
I've already recommended it toother people and I've already
had this conversation.
I think I started recommendingit.
It just brought a conversationI found myself in the midst of
and I was sharing it, how I hadgotten so much clarity and, once
again, the writing that story,my story, really brought clarity
(30:22):
to me, really brought clarityto me.
And what I also like about theprogram is that you're not just
providing, you're providing aroadmap and a plan.
So it's not as if I'm beingleft with this information and
there's nothing to do.
There's a path.
There's still work to do.
(30:43):
It's not over, it's kind ofjust the beginning, right?
So I most definitely willrecommend this and I will most
definitely want to ask you toinvite me to come back.
Future state I want to talkabout because I am so excited
about this and following theplan when will I be next On the
(31:05):
next segment of this journey,because it's a journey.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
All right, we got to have a Nicole part too, yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Yes, 2.0.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Yeah, this is going to be wonderful.
This is great.
Now I know you have a LinkedInpresence.
I want you to tell our audiencehow to contact you, so we can
actually see a little bit ofyour journey as you progress
right, right, and so I thinkthat would be great to leave the
audience with that information.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
So I am on LinkedIn.
I am in the midst of updatingmy LinkedIn profile and, yes,
you can find me on LinkedIn.
I'm not sure there's what.
Do you call it a handle or isit hold on?
And it talks about me as adirector of nursing.
It will.
It talks about me, um what I'vedone in the past, my years of
experience and my vast years ofexperience I've traveled um
nursing operations, um linkedin.
You'll find all my skills thatI've mastered became the subject
(32:06):
matter expert in LinkedIn.
You will find my story, yeah.
You will actually find my storyon LinkedIn.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Your great story, your wonderful story.
We want your.
You say you have a daughter andyou want her to read that Like
wow.
Yes, I do have a daughter andyou want her to read that Like
wow.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Yes, I do have a daughter and I'm very she's very
proud of me.
I would love for her to readthat as well.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
We're going to make sure she does that and she can
look up all the stories.
You're going to be one of theover 200 different episodes that
we have had on the Follow BrandPodcast.
We go into our fourth year.
This is wonderful.
This is a library ofinformation and resource for
people to truly understand like,hey, what's it like to be a
nurse leader?
They can just tune into yourepisode and there's over 200
(32:58):
episodes of differentindividuals in different areas
of career development, businessdevelopment, technology and
information, personal branding,executive presence, brand
mastery.
All of that is for all of youto tune into.
You can do that at FirestarVideo.
That is the number five.
That's star S-T-A-R.
B for brand, b for development,inframasterscom.
(33:19):
I want to thank you again forbeing on the show and being a
great student of mine.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
I want to thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
You're most welcome.
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