October 26, 2025 • 38 mins
Buyers choose the path of least resistance, and that truth can either fuel your growth or quietly stall it. We sit down with Vistage Chair and “No Hassle” advocate Jim Bramlett to break down a four-part framework that makes customers stop hesitating: convenience, price transparency, user experience, and trust. From Amazon and Netflix to Uber and Nebraska Furniture Mart, Jim shows how category leaders remove friction so thoroughly that buyers feel they have no excuse not to say yes.
We dig into the Hassle Score and why benchmarking yourself against actual competitors—not your intentions—exposes the real gaps slowing revenue and referrals. Jim shares crisp examples of conscious trade offs between price, convenience, and experience, and then explores how to narrow those trade offs with smarter operating design and practical uses of AI to cut cycle time, clarify quotes, and elevate support without eroding trust. The conversation shifts to the leadership habits that sustain these gains: resilience when plans break, coaching as the core skill of influence, and the surprising power of peer advisory groups where 80 percent of issues center on people, not strategy.
Expect a clear path to uncovering blind spots through better questions, building a culture where vulnerability invites help, and leading across generations with curiosity and clarity. If you’re ready to simplify buying, earn repeat business, and turn word of mouth into a growth engine, this episode gives you the tools and the mindset to start now.
If you found this useful, follow the show, share it with a teammate who owns the customer journey, and leave a quick review to help more leaders discover practical, no-hassle growth.
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Follow The Brand! We hope you enjoyed learning about the latest trends and strategies in Personal Branding, Business and Career Development, Financial Empowerment, Technology Innovation, and Executive Presence. To keep up with the latest insights and updates, visit 5starbdm.com
.
And don’t miss Grant McGaugh’s new book, First Light — a powerful guide to igniting your purpose and building a BRAVE brand that stands out in a changing world. - https://5starbdm.com/brave-masterclass/
See you next time on Follow The Brand!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
Welcome everybody to the Funnel Brand Podcast.
This is your host, Grant McGall,and I am in my Midwest office in
Omaha, Nebraska.
And I get an opportunity tospeak to someone just a little
bit south of me in the SuperBowl country, as I call it.
Super Bowl country, Kansas City,Missouri.
We got Jim Brandley.
(00:22):
He is going to talk to us abouthis strategy, what he does for
Vistas Chair that's really,really exciting.
He's written a couple booksaround this.
He helps CEOs to get to thatnext level.
And I'd say he's been fairlysuccessful in doing that.
So, Jim, would you like tointroduce yourself?
SPEAKER_01 (00:45):
Grant, thank you.
Um, yeah, I'm down in uh I'm ina suburb of Kansas City, uh,
Chiefs Kingdom, as we like uh uhlike to call it.
And we've uh we need to get backto our uh winning ways this year
for sure.
But I uh I'm a Midwesterner by II grew up in the Midwest, uh,
lived here all my life.
(01:06):
Um I'm an entrepreneur by uh Idon't know by what, by uh just
uh experience.
I've started seven companies, uhfour for myself, three for other
large organizations.
I like to create new products,new divisions, uh, you know, new
services.
And about three years ago, I uhstarted this journey with
(01:28):
Vistage, where I I uh coachother leaders, and my mindset's
always about growth.
Growth as a person, growth as aleader, growth as a business.
That's what my true passion isall about.
SPEAKER_00 (01:45):
I love that, man.
And so so this is a no-hasslebrand episode, right?
The no hassle king, Jim, hasjust joined us.
Now you've you've brandedyourself as the no hassle king.
And in my own, my my braveblueprint strategy, my own brave
blueprint, one key pillar isauthenticity, and that's showing
(02:07):
up with a clear, bold identity.
I want to ask you, how did youarrive at this authentic
positioning?
How did you help CEOs embrace abrand that feels true to them?
SPEAKER_01 (02:20):
I uh well, it came from writing my two books.
Uh, my my first book was calledThe Unconventional Thinking of
Dominant Companies.
And in that book, I I outlinedhow Amazon became that
juggernaut uh that they stillare, how they blew past Walmart,
(02:42):
how Netflix put Blockbuster outof business, and how Uber
decimated uh the cab industry.
And I even have I even have uhyou'll you'll get this.
I even have uh mention, strongmention of Nebraska Furniture
Mart.
When they when when years agowhen they came to Kansas City,
they basically put uh everyother uh furniture appliance
(03:07):
business company out ofbusiness, and and so I believe
they fought they follow aformula.
Um they understand buyerpsychology better than anyone.
And I took this formula and Itranslated it into my second
book called Stop the Hassle,okay, and therefore parlayed
(03:29):
that into the no hassle king.
And and here's my formula that Ibelieved Amazon, Netflix, Uber,
Nebraska Furniture Mart used,and that every company should
and can use.
So I believe that and and greatyou and I are buyers.
We may not be professionalbuyers, that's all we do, but we
(03:51):
buy things every day.
And I believe there's four majorcriteria by which we make those
buying decisions, uh, by what webuy and from whom.
And number one is convenience.
As a buyer, uh, we're we'relooking for convenience.
We want to save time, we want tosave effort, we want simple, we
want easy.
(04:11):
We don't want a more complexlife.
So, all things being equal, ifsomething's more convenient, we
buyers lean that direction.
We don't drive across town toget our coffee in the morning,
it's gonna be somewhere,somewhere close.
Number two is price.
We want a competitive price, notnecessarily the lowest, but what
we really want is pricingtransparency.
(04:34):
By that I mean we want to knowwhat we're going to spend in
advance of that purchase.
Therefore, sometimes we getsideways with airlines who have
these hidden fees.
We, you know, going to a doctor,we don't always know what we're
spending, or a hospital, or anattorney.
An attorney, we might know thatwe're spending several hundred
dollars per hour, we just neverknow how many hours, and that
(04:55):
makes us uncomfortable.
We don't like that.
Number three is user experience.
We have this need to be treatedlike we're the uh vendor or
seller's only customer.
We want responsiveness, we gotquestions.
I want to I want to know rightaway.
I want you to live to whatevercommitment you make, if that's a
(05:16):
brand promise.
Um, I want you to live withthat.
If it's like going into a retailstore, that experience I want, I
want well lit, I want clean, Iwant the shelves stocked, I want
adequate uh help in the store, Iwant to feel safe.
So that experience is prettywide-ranging and based on the
(05:38):
type of business you're on.
And number four is trust.
We want to trust that we when webuy something, we have this
perception in our head of whatwe're getting, and we want to
get that.
Well, how do we trust that we'regoing to get that?
Guarantees, warranties,testimonials, references, how
long they've been in business,did they won awards?
Are they specializing in acertain segment?
(06:01):
Now, when when you do all fourof those, me as a buyer, I don't
have an excuse not to you.
If you're convenient, pricecompetitively and transparently,
you gave me a great userexperience, and I trust trust
you, I don't have an excuse notto.
When you do not provide those,it's creating a hassle.
(06:27):
If you're not convenient, if youtake me more time than I should
spend to buy from you, or yourproduct doesn't save me time and
doesn't make my life easier,that's a hassle.
When when the price isn'tcompetitive, and especially when
it's not transparent, that's ahassle.
When I don't get treated well,when that experience, that's a
(06:50):
hassle, and then when I can'ttrust you, that's a hassle.
So therefore, stop the hassle.
I preach all the time.
The better you understand webuyers, the better you as a
company can match your offeringto what we're looking for, and
stop that hassle.
(07:11):
And you will grow organicallywhen you do that.
People will tell other people,hey, I bought from Grant and it
was great.
The experience was great,pricing was competitive, it was
very convenient, and I can trustit because he had guaranteed.
So people will talk to otherpeople and make it viral when
you deliver on all four.
(07:33):
Mostly, though, most companieshave a conscious trade-off where
they're going to give up one ofthose in exchange for another.
So, you know, I give you thisexample, Jeffy Lube.
They're going to give youconvenience, but it's going to
come at a cost.
Walmart's going to give you verylow prices, but hope you like
(07:55):
checking yourself out.
The stores aren't necessarily,you know, as clean and organized
as, say, a target seemed to be.
Uh, Nordstrom, going to give yougreat experience, great
merchandise, stores, personalshoppers, but again, comes at a
price.
So, so most companies have someconscious trade-off because it's
(08:15):
very difficult to hit on allfour.
It just but those who have, youknow, we just don't have excuses
not to buy from them.
And and they're so so that'swhat my books are all about.
That's what I preach, that's whyI'm I refer to myself as the no
hassle king.
SPEAKER_00 (08:35):
Well, I tell you, and and you've been you're being
kind because I as you as youtake us through that that type
of framework that you just gaveus, and I started thinking about
my own experiences, especiallyrecently, like with the with the
airline, right?
Oh my.
(08:57):
And then, but are you gettingthe repeat business?
Because if you hassle people toomuch, you know, you'll probably
lose that business, right?
That's what it comes down to,right?
And I saw your your book, and Ihappen to to to to look at this
because I think it's soimportant.
You have what you call the thehassle score, and you kind of
introduce this in your book.
(09:18):
And I know one of my pillars isit's all about uh excellence.
And if we try to strive forexcellence, what you just
alluded to, which is aboutcreating you know measurable
frameworks for success.
That's what my excellence is allabout.
My question for you is this howcan leaders apply, especially
companies that you just talkedabout, apply your hassle score,
(09:40):
and maybe we're talking aboutthe CEO level, you know, as they
apply this hassle score to driveexcellence at both customer and
employee e-experiences.
SPEAKER_01 (09:50):
Yeah, um, because it all starts with the leader.
So my hassle score, I say thisthere is no national standard
for convenience, no nationalstandard for user experience, no
national standard for for trustor price.
So I tell leaders it's all aboutmeasuring yourself against your
(10:15):
most direct competitors.
And I use this analogy, Grant.
We kind of already talked aboutit a little bit, so I'm gonna
use this analogy again.
Obviously, I'm a huge Andy Reedfan.
Yeah.
Andy Reid doesn't show up atArrowhead Stadium on Sunday
morning and go, let's see, whoare we playing?
Uh, I wonder if they like to runthe ball, pass the ball.
(10:38):
I wonder uh what kind of defensethey they play.
They play zone, man, cover two.
Uh well, I guess we'll just findout.
No, he knows, they know whothey're playing, they study
them, and they find out theirweaknesses, and they try and
exploit their weaknesses, justlike that team's gonna try and
(11:00):
exploit the the chiefs'weaknesses.
So I tell leaders, understandyour competitors, study them,
buy from them.
How convenient was it?
How were they priced?
What kind of experience?
How did you trust them?
How do you stack up againstthose competitors?
Because guess what?
If you do not stack up well,you're gonna invite a startup, a
(11:26):
competitor who's gonna say, waita minute, this company or this
industry has a weakness.
You know, the cab industry hadso many weaknesses that Uber
said, Man, we're we're gonnaexploit that.
We're gonna use cars that peopledrive every day.
We're not gonna have plexiglass.
They're gonna come to you, we'regonna sell them the price
(11:47):
exactly what it's gonna be inadvance.
When you get to the destination,you just walk away.
You don't have to fumble, havethe have the cabbie say cash,
cash, you know.
Yeah, yeah.
They made that experience somuch better.
Um, and and so when you don'tpay attention to your
competitors and you don't hit onthose four criteria, you're
inviting startups andcompetitors to come in.
(12:11):
But the ball, the target isalways moving.
I I said just because youstarted and you were very
convenient doesn't mean you canjust oh got that done.
No, you have like AI.
How can you leverage AI to takecosts out to reduce price, or
can you leverage AI to be moreconvenient?
(12:31):
Can you leverage it to beprovide a better experience?
Constantly be evaluating that.
So that's what I preach.
SPEAKER_00 (12:38):
That is so important as you brought that up because
you've got to have anunderstanding, especially when
you're going against you knowthe other the team on the other
side of the ball is definitelycoming to exploit your
weaknesses, right?
Now you've gone from runninglogistics firms to coaching
CEOs.
(12:58):
And then in my model, when Iwhen in this particular model, I
talk about resilience, right?
Because you've got to beresilient.
What you just alluded to, eventhough you might have, hey, no,
we've got this running and it'sit's operating, but you got to
go back and then retweak whatyou're doing because it's
constantly changing.
The ball is constantly movingand shifting and changing.
(13:20):
If you ever watch an NFL game,you'll go from the first quarter
to fourth quarter, and you'llbegin to see how they almost
reinvent themselves on the fieldsometimes because of the
challenges that they face.
My question is this Whatchallenges did you face in that
transition from logistic firmsto coaching CEOs?
(13:42):
And then how can leaders buildresilience when stepping into a
new identity or role?
SPEAKER_01 (13:49):
Yeah, my transition was not easy.
Um uh, you know, I had never Ihad never been a an executive
coach before.
And I kind of thought I knewwhat coaching was, but I didn't.
And I have I have takentraining, uh, multiple steps of
training to understand whatcoaching really is, so much so
(14:12):
that I encourage I encourage myleaders to become coaches.
I believe the very best leadersare coaches.
Yeah, and again, I'm I hate togo back to uh to another
football and Andy Reed analogy,but I will.
You know, uh I I tell peoplethat I don't listen to Andy Reid
press conferences.
(14:33):
I don't need to because I I cantell you exactly what he's gonna
say.
If they take a loss, well,that's on me.
I didn't give them enough play,I didn't have them ready.
If there was a player whostruggled, he's gonna say, oh,
he's a great kid, loves thegame, works his tail off.
And that's exactly why playerslove playing for him.
(14:54):
And and I I told this story tomy my CEOs one day.
I walked in and I started themeeting this way.
Hey, do any of you know whereSteve Spagnolo went to school?
Nobody did.
I said, okay, he went toSpringfield College.
I don't even know whichSpringfield.
Do any of you know what positionhe played for Springfield
College?
(15:14):
Nobody knew.
Okay, he was a wide receiver.
Do any of you know if he playedin the NFL?
They didn't know.
No, he didn't.
So tell me this.
How did Steve Swagnolo, one ofthe most respected defensive
coordinators in the NFL, whoplayed on the offensive side of
the ball, become one of the mostrespected and best defensive
(15:37):
coordinators in the NFL?
Who is inspiring and coachingmultimillionaires?
And he's inspiring him so much,they went out and created a
t-shirt said, in spags we trust.
How many of you have any of youremployees or team create a shirt
(15:58):
that in you we trust?
They I said, so it's all aboutinspiring.
You can't force anybody toimprove, you can't force anybody
to do their best, you can'tforce them to be motivated.
You have to inspire them, andthat that is coaching.
So, but to your second part ofthe question on resilience.
(16:19):
I get asked this a lot.
They say, Jim, what's the bestpiece of advice you would give
to an entrepreneur, um, youknow, a leader?
And and I say this (16:29):
I said, I've started seven companies over my
career, and not a one of themhas gone according to plan.
Yep, we create these elaboratefinancial forecasts, these
business plans, thesestrategies, and you they never
(16:49):
they never go according to plan.
It always takes much longer,it's always much harder.
Something that you can'tcontrol, well, it might be a
pandemic, could be tariffs,something is going to happen
where where it's gonna throw youback, you're gonna have bumps in
(17:10):
a road, and you got to beresilient, you've got to have
grit.
Okay, but if you know it's notgonna be a smooth road, if you
know there are gonna be bumps,plan on it, and know that you've
got to pull on that resiliencestring when it hits.
(17:31):
Uh, that's the advice I givethem.
So you're exactly right.
The the very best leaders haveto be resilient because not
every day is all sunshine andand orange juice.
It's it's it can be some realchallenges thrown your way.
SPEAKER_00 (17:46):
Oh, big time.
And and to your point, it it'ssometimes you just underestimate
the the challenge that you'regoing to have.
What you just said, especially Icall the mountain of resilience
that you're gonna go against.
Now, what the cool factor is ifyou have someone like yourself
who's gone through this type ofuh adversity, or they they
(18:10):
they've had to tell their storyaround resistance, and they can
tell you just by looking at you,like, look, you're gonna have to
do some things to make somechanges because you're not at a
level that you're gonna be ableto power through the things that
you're going to come across,right?
So at the heart of what I callmy my brave framework of vision,
(18:33):
and that's seeing beyondyourself because you've got to
be able to do that.
My question is how does thispeer advisory model expand a
CEO's vision, and what makes itmore powerful than working with
a single consultant?
SPEAKER_01 (18:55):
Oh yeah, great, great question.
Uh so when when I started downthis path, it it occurred to me
this analogy or or example.
I said, for anybody who's becomea parent, when you walk out of
the hospital after the second orthird day with that newborn, the
(19:17):
hospital did not give you thisbinder on here's everything you
need to do and know for the next20 years on how to raise a
child.
They they don't do that.
Oh my god, if I'm a first-timeparent.
All right, so okay, I might Imight lean on mom and dad, okay.
(19:37):
But you know what?
At the end of the day, that's awhole different generation.
They're not living with me onthe front lines, they don't
really understand.
So, what do you do?
You go consult other parents,and I mean you do that
throughout their entireadolescent journey.
Well, Johnny's not doing hishomework, or Susie's not, you
(19:58):
know, uh eating right, and andthey got this, that it's it's a
peer group appearance.
And so I say that the same thingapplies in in business.
When you can surround yourselfwith trusted and other
like-minded leaders, and theymay not be in your particular
(20:18):
industry, that doesn't thatdoesn't really matter.
Matter of fact, we don't allowthat in in our business group,
but you're gonna get a lot ofdifferent perspectives, you're
gonna get a lot of differentexperience, and you're gonna get
a lot of different brain power.
And and if you go it alone, youthink you know all the answers,
and you got all the answers,it's gonna be a rough journey.
(20:40):
Where if you've got others youcan trust and say, and be
vulnerable, hey man, I'm havingthis struggle, um, and I just
want others to kind of weigh inand help me.
You're gonna get a lot ofknowledge and a lot of input
that that will help you.
And I believe every it's it inthe the old adage, it's lonely
(21:00):
at the top.
That is very, very true.
You might have a team, but thatteam has their own, they're they
have their own uh agenda, if youwill, their own dreams.
And so sometimes it's lonely.
You just need somebody to ventwith, right?
Just somebody's to have thathave an ear for you.
(21:20):
Well, that's what a peer groupreally is all about, and and you
will get a lot of wisdom.
Um, you you'll get a lot of bestpractices, you know, shared that
will help you along thisdifficult journey of leadership.
Uh, and and so that's that's thepower of a peer group, and we
(21:41):
call it a peer advisory uh groupbecause you're giving advice to
each other all the time.
And and and we go through aprocess, Grant.
Uh we we meet once a month.
I I ask my leaders, I want youto take a full day to work on
your business, not in it.
And and we do a part of thatmeeting we we call issue
(22:03):
processing.
Who's facing a challenge?
Who's facing the issue?
Well, guess what?
80% of those issues are about,it's about people, and that's a
dynamic that's if people arethat that's a that's a that's a
wild ride when you have lots ofdifferent people with lots of
different personalities andbehaviors, and and leaders have
(22:25):
to deal with with that.
And so they they will reallyconsult with each other.
Well, how do I handle this kindof behavior and that kind of
behavior and and and the like?
SPEAKER_00 (22:34):
No, that's important.
The the human intelligence, theHI in the room.
I think we are starting toreally understand that component
as we as the world kind ofengages in artificial
intelligence even today, andthey're starting to realize
artificial intelligence and howit works is more problemistic,
meaning it doesn't always comeout with the exact same answer
(22:58):
every single time.
There's deterministic, and thenthere's um what AI is doing is
giving you um options andanswers for every single thing.
But the human element is kind ofthe same.
You can say the same thing tothe to the same group of people,
and you'll probably get 10different uh understanding and
(23:19):
and variables uh as a part ofit.
You're like, wow, did I say 10different things?
I don't think so, but that'swhat you're dealing with.
Now, you said something I thinkis so important, that is that
CEO, the isolation and thevulnerability of the position
that you're in.
And I know that leaders oftenfeel pressure to always project
(23:42):
strength.
And in my brave work, Iemphasize boldness through
vulnerability.
My question is how do you createa space where CEOs can be bold
enough to be vulnerable?
And what breakthroughs usuallyhappen as a result of that?
SPEAKER_01 (24:04):
It's hard.
You know, you you nailed it.
Um leaders believe they have tobe the strong person, and I
believe all too often they puton this facade.
I got this, I'm tough, I've madeit, I'm gonna make this happen.
And and they there are too manyleaders who I believe vulnerable
(24:28):
they think vulnerability isweakness, okay.
But you know what happens whenyou are truly vulnerable?
Guess what we humans want to do?
We want to help.
And whether it's in a peer groupwhere you come and say, hey,
folks, I've got this challenge,and I think I know what I want
to do, but I'm not really sure.
(24:49):
I just want some help.
You know what?
When you go to your employeesand your team and say, Team,
we're facing this challenge.
I think I know what we ought todo, but I really want your input
because I'm not a hundredpercent sure.
That's vulnerability, but guesswhat they're gonna want to do?
(25:11):
They're gonna want to help you,even though you're the leader.
It's not any sign of a lack ofdisrespect.
We humans have this nature wherewe want to reach out and help
others, but you gotta you gottasend the signal that I do, I am
looking for help, and that'svulnerable.
So it's really hard to get someleaders, you know, past that I'm
(25:36):
tough, I'm strong, I got this,I'm gonna do it.
And to being, hey, I don't haveall the answers.
And I claim that vulnerability,if you're vulnerable, you want
to learn.
Yeah, vulnerable people readbooks, they listen to others,
they they strive to learn.
So the best leaders are lifelonglearners, they're curious, so
(25:57):
they they want more and moreinformation.
And and but there are people outthere, and I've met them.
Nope.
And they're not gonna show anyvulnerability, and they put this
facade on it's fake.
SPEAKER_00 (26:10):
Yeah, and you know that's already kind of you know,
BS in the background.
Like, nah, everybody needs someassistance and some help.
Like, you have a certain skillset, a certain uh strength that
you have, but in any SWOTanalysis, right?
There's strengths, there'sweaknesses, there's
opportunities, and there'sthreats.
And we all have these things,it's just do you understand
(26:33):
where you sit in relation to allthose things at one time.
Now, one thing I liked aboutyourself, you talk about the
question you can't Google.
You say you can't Google what amI not doing that I should be
doing, and in my framework andbrain, that relates to vision
(26:53):
and excellence, and that'sseeing blind spots before they
become barriers.
If you could, could you share astory where asking that question
changed a leader's trajectory?
SPEAKER_01 (27:09):
Um yeah, I um boy, the about the blind spot?
Yeah.
Um it's it it takes here here'smy experience.
Um in in a in a CEO peeradvisory group, number one,
(27:34):
people who get come into thegroup, they've got to trust the
group first.
So they're not they're not goingto open up, and it's hard to
figure out their blind spot ifthey don't open up and trust.
So what I do is I do one-on-onecoaching with each of my
(27:55):
leaders.
And you know, in my you know,coaching training, I've I've
learned how to ask the questionsthat need to be asked, the right
questions, the non-judgmentalquestions, getting them to open
up.
Because what what we're whatI've learned is that everybody
(28:16):
makes a decision, or everydecision is made based on values
and beliefs.
Okay.
Well, guess when those valuesand beliefs were really formed.
They're formed as in our youngeryears, okay.
That's especially being raisedby your parents, you start
getting your values, you startbelieving things, and and and
(28:39):
and that's how and and so thenthere become, you know, there
are self-limiting beliefs.
And again, this is a little bitof a vulnerability, where they
have a belief that limitsthemselves.
And so, as a coach, in thequestions I ask, I have to get
down into an emotional level.
What do you what's really goingon here?
(29:00):
Is that what you really trulybelieve?
What makes you believe that?
And what if that wasn't true?
How would you react?
Okay, so by getting deep on aone-on-one, because I think a
blind spot is really kind of aself-limiting belief in some
sense, but getting into thosedeep questions, getting them in
(29:23):
into thinking about well, whatvalue, what belief is driving
what you're thinking?
And is it really true?
Let's let's and and if you andif this wasn't true, how would
you react?
And just going through that thatback and forth, getting them
into that mindset is whatbecomes really, really important
in my mind to eliminate theblind spots.
SPEAKER_00 (29:45):
That is uh you know it there.
Uh, I think anybody listening tothis, they need to rewind, hit
the rewind button to it again,because getting deep uh beyond
uh the surface really.
Seeing what's uh beneath um yourfeelings, your the thoughts that
(30:05):
you have, your your daily habitsis so important.
I always look at the icebergeffect.
Only 30% of an iceberg isvisible, 70% is on is is not
visible and it's underneath thesurface, but sometimes you don't
always get a chance to see that,so you can help somebody to be
able to see certain things andmake adjustments and then they
(30:27):
can move forward.
Now you you go to platform as aspeaker and a thought leader,
and I'm all about boldness, I'mall about authenticity as keys
to personal branding.
And if you would like just sharesome advice that you would give
to leaders who want to stand outas an authentic voice in their
(30:50):
industry.
SPEAKER_01 (30:52):
Uh my if they want to be uh okay, I'll I'll say
this.
I'm gonna start here.
Yeah, because this is one of thechallenges with leaders.
Most leaders get in theirposition due to a skill set, an
expertise, or knowledge.
Oh, I I I graduated school withan engineering degree, I became
(31:16):
really good with that, I startedmy own company, now I'm the
leader.
Okay, and and if you go back andask them, well, how much real
leadership training did you get?
Where did you learn to motivate,inspire, influence other people?
Because at the end of the day, Idon't care what business you're
(31:37):
in, you're in a people business.
You've got customers who arepeople, you've got employees who
are people, you've got vendorswho are people.
How do you deal with people?
Where did you get that training?
Okay, and and so um, and this iswhat I encourage them.
(31:57):
I say, hey, if you work with me,I'm I'm gonna try and help you
become a coach.
And especially in thismulti-generational workforce
that that leaders deal with.
I joke about this.
You you can tell I got a littlebit of gray hair.
I'm a I'm a boomer.
Yeah, and I and I joke aboutthis.
Being a boomer, I grew up in thecarrot and the stick era, but I
(32:20):
don't remember the carrot, I doremember the stick.
SPEAKER_00 (32:24):
That's right.
SPEAKER_01 (32:25):
You know, Gen Z and Millennials, they all they all
have different values and theythink differently.
And and as a as a leader, you'vegot to understand that.
What are their overall values?
What how do they really think?
And and so by coaching, becominga coach, learning how to ask the
(32:47):
questions, um, and engage themthe way they really want to be
engaged, uh, you know, thatthat's a skill you're not
probably, you know, have learnedin school or maybe beyond.
It it takes post-education, reallife education, um, you know,
(33:08):
uh, to do that.
SPEAKER_00 (33:10):
I tell you, this this has been wonderful, Jim.
We're coming to the conclusionof our podcast, and I always
like to do this in the moment.
I like to ask my guest, how didthey feel uh during this
interview?
Meaning, you've been on, you'vedone a lot of different uh
podcast interviews, you'vetalked to a lot of different
(33:30):
people, you've been on stages.
This is your first opportunityto be on the Follow the Brand
podcast with Grant McGaugh.
What kind of feedback would yougive me?
SPEAKER_01 (33:41):
Oh, I I love I, you know, I've been on a lot of
podcasts and nobody'd asked meabout resiliency.
Okay.
Um, so uh uh and I I love thatfrom you because you recognize
what it takes.
And I think out of any uh, youknow, that that has got to be in
one of the top threecharacteristics or traits of a
(34:03):
leader because it isn't alwaysgonna go your way.
So that's what I appreciateabout you, just reminding me,
you know, reminding me of that,um, and how important it is.
And and you know, I think Idon't know, maybe maybe I'm
maybe I'm biased, but today'sworld I think it's too easy to
(34:27):
quit.
Okay, there's there's just toomany, too many exit avenues you
can take.
Yeah, you gotta know when toquit, but have you been
resilient enough to try everyavenue you can try?
Have you gotten help um fromothers so that you know you can
be more resilient and keep atit?
Um I I had a mentor early uh inmy professional career that told
(34:52):
me, before you can succeed, youmust fail.
You don't know what success is,and I've I've kept that, and I
have failed.
And I appreciate uh every littlesuccess that I that I hope I
get.
SPEAKER_00 (35:10):
No, you that is so first of all, it's very
authentic.
Um, and the resiliency factor isparamount even in in today's
world, in 2025, in a world thatyou can get instant
gratification, and you thinkthat everything is just very,
very simple.
You can just go to the store,grab you something to eat and go
home.
You don't realize that farmerworked a lot of hours to produce
(35:33):
those things, and everyeverything along that supply
chain had to be you know justright in order for you to have
that kind of uh uh very quickresult.
And I love how you said it, youknow, in the very beginning of
this podcast, those fourelements of success that is very
difficult.
It's a constant moving target.
(35:53):
So if you're not resilient inwhat you're doing and you come
across a little bit of failure,and I think you know, my my 62
years now on this planet, I'veknown more failure than success.
But I think it's relevant, it'srelative, right?
How do you see failure?
How do you see success?
A lot of times it's just alearning experience, and you
(36:14):
don't want to think about this.
Like, you know what, in order tolearn that skill, it's really
gonna take you three to fiveyears, not three to five weeks,
you know.
So it's sometimes like you canaccept that or or or or not.
Um, but if you do your yourresearch and your due diligence,
you'll see that most people, ifyou really peel back that onion
(36:34):
and go back to that icebergeffect I talked about and talk
about, hey, you're seeing, youknow, you talk about the Amazons
and the eBays and that, and youdon't realize they lost money.
They were you in relative thing,they were very they were
failures for a long time, butthey were failing forward.
And then, but these they theystayed at it.
And I tell people, you know,read Bezos' story.
(36:55):
I think it was like 10 years,they made no money, right?
SPEAKER_01 (36:58):
He was vilified for burning cash, but he was
steadfast that the customer wasatop of the chain, and boy, you
talk about resilient.
That's a great lesson inresiliency, right there.
I love you mentioning that.
SPEAKER_00 (37:14):
Absolutely, absolutely.
So before we conclude, you know,you've got to tell us how to to
contact you, tell us you know, alittle bit, you know, because
this is the I think people thatare listening to this are
saying, hey, I think I canutilize these services.
So tell a little bit aboutVistics, what they can do, and
then how they can contact you.
SPEAKER_01 (37:34):
Yeah, uh, I'm a Vista chair.
You can find me throughVistage.com.
I'm a very active LinkedIn user.
So find me, Jim Bramlett, there.
My website is uhjimbramlett.com, and I have a
second website called strategiesto grow.com.
So you can reach out to me.
(37:56):
I I love helping.
Uh uh, I'm a servant leader.
Anything I can do to helpothers, I'm going to do.
So please reach out and I'mhappy to help.
And Grant, thank you for whatyou do, uh, helping uh leaders
and others think through lifebecause it's it's a it's a
challenge.
SPEAKER_00 (38:12):
It absolutely is, but when we can share, you know,
this is kind of a peerdiscussion between uh myself and
yourself, and this is how we allget better and we can move
forward in understanding ourjourney.
And I encourage your entireaudience to to listen to all the
episodes on Follow Brand at FiveStar BDM.
That is the number five.
That is B for brand, D forDevelopment Informasters.com.
(38:36):
This has been wonderful.
I want to thank you again andmuch success to the Kansas City
Chiefs.
SPEAKER_01 (38:45):
Thanks, Grant.
SPEAKER_00 (38:46):
You're welcome.
Welcome everybody to the Funnel Brand Podcast.
This is your host, Grant McGall,and I am in my Midwest office in
Omaha, Nebraska.
And I get an opportunity tospeak to someone just a little
bit south of me in the SuperBowl country, as I call it.
Super Bowl country, Kansas City,Missouri.
We got Jim Brandley.
(00:22):
He is going to talk to us abouthis strategy, what he does for
Vistas Chair that's really,really exciting.
He's written a couple booksaround this.
He helps CEOs to get to thatnext level.
And I'd say he's been fairlysuccessful in doing that.
So, Jim, would you like tointroduce yourself?
SPEAKER_01 (00:45):
Grant, thank you.
Um, yeah, I'm down in uh I'm ina suburb of Kansas City, uh,
Chiefs Kingdom, as we like uh uhlike to call it.
And we've uh we need to get backto our uh winning ways this year
for sure.
But I uh I'm a Midwesterner by II grew up in the Midwest, uh,
lived here all my life.
(01:06):
Um I'm an entrepreneur by uh Idon't know by what, by uh just
uh experience.
I've started seven companies, uhfour for myself, three for other
large organizations.
I like to create new products,new divisions, uh, you know, new
services.
And about three years ago, I uhstarted this journey with
(01:28):
Vistage, where I I uh coachother leaders, and my mindset's
always about growth.
Growth as a person, growth as aleader, growth as a business.
That's what my true passion isall about.
SPEAKER_00 (01:45):
I love that, man.
And so so this is a no-hasslebrand episode, right?
The no hassle king, Jim, hasjust joined us.
Now you've you've brandedyourself as the no hassle king.
And in my own, my my braveblueprint strategy, my own brave
blueprint, one key pillar isauthenticity, and that's showing
(02:07):
up with a clear, bold identity.
I want to ask you, how did youarrive at this authentic
positioning?
How did you help CEOs embrace abrand that feels true to them?
SPEAKER_01 (02:20):
I uh well, it came from writing my two books.
Uh, my my first book was calledThe Unconventional Thinking of
Dominant Companies.
And in that book, I I outlinedhow Amazon became that
juggernaut uh that they stillare, how they blew past Walmart,
(02:42):
how Netflix put Blockbuster outof business, and how Uber
decimated uh the cab industry.
And I even have I even have uhyou'll you'll get this.
I even have uh mention, strongmention of Nebraska Furniture
Mart.
When they when when years agowhen they came to Kansas City,
they basically put uh everyother uh furniture appliance
(03:07):
business company out ofbusiness, and and so I believe
they fought they follow aformula.
Um they understand buyerpsychology better than anyone.
And I took this formula and Itranslated it into my second
book called Stop the Hassle,okay, and therefore parlayed
(03:29):
that into the no hassle king.
And and here's my formula that Ibelieved Amazon, Netflix, Uber,
Nebraska Furniture Mart used,and that every company should
and can use.
So I believe that and and greatyou and I are buyers.
We may not be professionalbuyers, that's all we do, but we
(03:51):
buy things every day.
And I believe there's four majorcriteria by which we make those
buying decisions, uh, by what webuy and from whom.
And number one is convenience.
As a buyer, uh, we're we'relooking for convenience.
We want to save time, we want tosave effort, we want simple, we
want easy.
(04:11):
We don't want a more complexlife.
So, all things being equal, ifsomething's more convenient, we
buyers lean that direction.
We don't drive across town toget our coffee in the morning,
it's gonna be somewhere,somewhere close.
Number two is price.
We want a competitive price, notnecessarily the lowest, but what
we really want is pricingtransparency.
(04:34):
By that I mean we want to knowwhat we're going to spend in
advance of that purchase.
Therefore, sometimes we getsideways with airlines who have
these hidden fees.
We, you know, going to a doctor,we don't always know what we're
spending, or a hospital, or anattorney.
An attorney, we might know thatwe're spending several hundred
dollars per hour, we just neverknow how many hours, and that
(04:55):
makes us uncomfortable.
We don't like that.
Number three is user experience.
We have this need to be treatedlike we're the uh vendor or
seller's only customer.
We want responsiveness, we gotquestions.
I want to I want to know rightaway.
I want you to live to whatevercommitment you make, if that's a
(05:16):
brand promise.
Um, I want you to live withthat.
If it's like going into a retailstore, that experience I want, I
want well lit, I want clean, Iwant the shelves stocked, I want
adequate uh help in the store, Iwant to feel safe.
So that experience is prettywide-ranging and based on the
(05:38):
type of business you're on.
And number four is trust.
We want to trust that we when webuy something, we have this
perception in our head of whatwe're getting, and we want to
get that.
Well, how do we trust that we'regoing to get that?
Guarantees, warranties,testimonials, references, how
long they've been in business,did they won awards?
Are they specializing in acertain segment?
(06:01):
Now, when when you do all fourof those, me as a buyer, I don't
have an excuse not to you.
If you're convenient, pricecompetitively and transparently,
you gave me a great userexperience, and I trust trust
you, I don't have an excuse notto.
When you do not provide those,it's creating a hassle.
(06:27):
If you're not convenient, if youtake me more time than I should
spend to buy from you, or yourproduct doesn't save me time and
doesn't make my life easier,that's a hassle.
When when the price isn'tcompetitive, and especially when
it's not transparent, that's ahassle.
When I don't get treated well,when that experience, that's a
(06:50):
hassle, and then when I can'ttrust you, that's a hassle.
So therefore, stop the hassle.
I preach all the time.
The better you understand webuyers, the better you as a
company can match your offeringto what we're looking for, and
stop that hassle.
(07:11):
And you will grow organicallywhen you do that.
People will tell other people,hey, I bought from Grant and it
was great.
The experience was great,pricing was competitive, it was
very convenient, and I can trustit because he had guaranteed.
So people will talk to otherpeople and make it viral when
you deliver on all four.
(07:33):
Mostly, though, most companieshave a conscious trade-off where
they're going to give up one ofthose in exchange for another.
So, you know, I give you thisexample, Jeffy Lube.
They're going to give youconvenience, but it's going to
come at a cost.
Walmart's going to give you verylow prices, but hope you like
(07:55):
checking yourself out.
The stores aren't necessarily,you know, as clean and organized
as, say, a target seemed to be.
Uh, Nordstrom, going to give yougreat experience, great
merchandise, stores, personalshoppers, but again, comes at a
price.
So, so most companies have someconscious trade-off because it's
(08:15):
very difficult to hit on allfour.
It just but those who have, youknow, we just don't have excuses
not to buy from them.
And and they're so so that'swhat my books are all about.
That's what I preach, that's whyI'm I refer to myself as the no
hassle king.
SPEAKER_00 (08:35):
Well, I tell you, and and you've been you're being
kind because I as you as youtake us through that that type
of framework that you just gaveus, and I started thinking about
my own experiences, especiallyrecently, like with the with the
airline, right?
Oh my.
(08:57):
And then, but are you gettingthe repeat business?
Because if you hassle people toomuch, you know, you'll probably
lose that business, right?
That's what it comes down to,right?
And I saw your your book, and Ihappen to to to to look at this
because I think it's soimportant.
You have what you call the thehassle score, and you kind of
introduce this in your book.
(09:18):
And I know one of my pillars isit's all about uh excellence.
And if we try to strive forexcellence, what you just
alluded to, which is aboutcreating you know measurable
frameworks for success.
That's what my excellence is allabout.
My question for you is this howcan leaders apply, especially
companies that you just talkedabout, apply your hassle score,
(09:40):
and maybe we're talking aboutthe CEO level, you know, as they
apply this hassle score to driveexcellence at both customer and
employee e-experiences.
SPEAKER_01 (09:50):
Yeah, um, because it all starts with the leader.
So my hassle score, I say thisthere is no national standard
for convenience, no nationalstandard for user experience, no
national standard for for trustor price.
So I tell leaders it's all aboutmeasuring yourself against your
(10:15):
most direct competitors.
And I use this analogy, Grant.
We kind of already talked aboutit a little bit, so I'm gonna
use this analogy again.
Obviously, I'm a huge Andy Reedfan.
Yeah.
Andy Reid doesn't show up atArrowhead Stadium on Sunday
morning and go, let's see, whoare we playing?
Uh, I wonder if they like to runthe ball, pass the ball.
(10:38):
I wonder uh what kind of defensethey they play.
They play zone, man, cover two.
Uh well, I guess we'll just findout.
No, he knows, they know whothey're playing, they study
them, and they find out theirweaknesses, and they try and
exploit their weaknesses, justlike that team's gonna try and
(11:00):
exploit the the chiefs'weaknesses.
So I tell leaders, understandyour competitors, study them,
buy from them.
How convenient was it?
How were they priced?
What kind of experience?
How did you trust them?
How do you stack up againstthose competitors?
Because guess what?
If you do not stack up well,you're gonna invite a startup, a
(11:26):
competitor who's gonna say, waita minute, this company or this
industry has a weakness.
You know, the cab industry hadso many weaknesses that Uber
said, Man, we're we're gonnaexploit that.
We're gonna use cars that peopledrive every day.
We're not gonna have plexiglass.
They're gonna come to you, we'regonna sell them the price
(11:47):
exactly what it's gonna be inadvance.
When you get to the destination,you just walk away.
You don't have to fumble, havethe have the cabbie say cash,
cash, you know.
Yeah, yeah.
They made that experience somuch better.
Um, and and so when you don'tpay attention to your
competitors and you don't hit onthose four criteria, you're
inviting startups andcompetitors to come in.
(12:11):
But the ball, the target isalways moving.
I I said just because youstarted and you were very
convenient doesn't mean you canjust oh got that done.
No, you have like AI.
How can you leverage AI to takecosts out to reduce price, or
can you leverage AI to be moreconvenient?
(12:31):
Can you leverage it to beprovide a better experience?
Constantly be evaluating that.
So that's what I preach.
SPEAKER_00 (12:38):
That is so important as you brought that up because
you've got to have anunderstanding, especially when
you're going against you knowthe other the team on the other
side of the ball is definitelycoming to exploit your
weaknesses, right?
Now you've gone from runninglogistics firms to coaching
CEOs.
(12:58):
And then in my model, when Iwhen in this particular model, I
talk about resilience, right?
Because you've got to beresilient.
What you just alluded to, eventhough you might have, hey, no,
we've got this running and it'sit's operating, but you got to
go back and then retweak whatyou're doing because it's
constantly changing.
The ball is constantly movingand shifting and changing.
(13:20):
If you ever watch an NFL game,you'll go from the first quarter
to fourth quarter, and you'llbegin to see how they almost
reinvent themselves on the fieldsometimes because of the
challenges that they face.
My question is this Whatchallenges did you face in that
transition from logistic firmsto coaching CEOs?
(13:42):
And then how can leaders buildresilience when stepping into a
new identity or role?
SPEAKER_01 (13:49):
Yeah, my transition was not easy.
Um uh, you know, I had never Ihad never been a an executive
coach before.
And I kind of thought I knewwhat coaching was, but I didn't.
And I have I have takentraining, uh, multiple steps of
training to understand whatcoaching really is, so much so
(14:12):
that I encourage I encourage myleaders to become coaches.
I believe the very best leadersare coaches.
Yeah, and again, I'm I hate togo back to uh to another
football and Andy Reed analogy,but I will.
You know, uh I I tell peoplethat I don't listen to Andy Reid
press conferences.
(14:33):
I don't need to because I I cantell you exactly what he's gonna
say.
If they take a loss, well,that's on me.
I didn't give them enough play,I didn't have them ready.
If there was a player whostruggled, he's gonna say, oh,
he's a great kid, loves thegame, works his tail off.
And that's exactly why playerslove playing for him.
(14:54):
And and I I told this story tomy my CEOs one day.
I walked in and I started themeeting this way.
Hey, do any of you know whereSteve Spagnolo went to school?
Nobody did.
I said, okay, he went toSpringfield College.
I don't even know whichSpringfield.
Do any of you know what positionhe played for Springfield
College?
(15:14):
Nobody knew.
Okay, he was a wide receiver.
Do any of you know if he playedin the NFL?
They didn't know.
No, he didn't.
So tell me this.
How did Steve Swagnolo, one ofthe most respected defensive
coordinators in the NFL, whoplayed on the offensive side of
the ball, become one of the mostrespected and best defensive
(15:37):
coordinators in the NFL?
Who is inspiring and coachingmultimillionaires?
And he's inspiring him so much,they went out and created a
t-shirt said, in spags we trust.
How many of you have any of youremployees or team create a shirt
(15:58):
that in you we trust?
They I said, so it's all aboutinspiring.
You can't force anybody toimprove, you can't force anybody
to do their best, you can'tforce them to be motivated.
You have to inspire them, andthat that is coaching.
So, but to your second part ofthe question on resilience.
(16:19):
I get asked this a lot.
They say, Jim, what's the bestpiece of advice you would give
to an entrepreneur, um, youknow, a leader?
And and I say this (16:29):
I said, I've started seven companies over my
career, and not a one of themhas gone according to plan.
Yep, we create these elaboratefinancial forecasts, these
business plans, thesestrategies, and you they never
(16:49):
they never go according to plan.
It always takes much longer,it's always much harder.
Something that you can'tcontrol, well, it might be a
pandemic, could be tariffs,something is going to happen
where where it's gonna throw youback, you're gonna have bumps in
(17:10):
a road, and you got to beresilient, you've got to have
grit.
Okay, but if you know it's notgonna be a smooth road, if you
know there are gonna be bumps,plan on it, and know that you've
got to pull on that resiliencestring when it hits.
(17:31):
Uh, that's the advice I givethem.
So you're exactly right.
The the very best leaders haveto be resilient because not
every day is all sunshine andand orange juice.
It's it's it can be some realchallenges thrown your way.
SPEAKER_00 (17:46):
Oh, big time.
And and to your point, it it'ssometimes you just underestimate
the the challenge that you'regoing to have.
What you just said, especially Icall the mountain of resilience
that you're gonna go against.
Now, what the cool factor is ifyou have someone like yourself
who's gone through this type ofuh adversity, or they they
(18:10):
they've had to tell their storyaround resistance, and they can
tell you just by looking at you,like, look, you're gonna have to
do some things to make somechanges because you're not at a
level that you're gonna be ableto power through the things that
you're going to come across,right?
So at the heart of what I callmy my brave framework of vision,
(18:33):
and that's seeing beyondyourself because you've got to
be able to do that.
My question is how does thispeer advisory model expand a
CEO's vision, and what makes itmore powerful than working with
a single consultant?
SPEAKER_01 (18:55):
Oh yeah, great, great question.
Uh so when when I started downthis path, it it occurred to me
this analogy or or example.
I said, for anybody who's becomea parent, when you walk out of
the hospital after the second orthird day with that newborn, the
(19:17):
hospital did not give you thisbinder on here's everything you
need to do and know for the next20 years on how to raise a
child.
They they don't do that.
Oh my god, if I'm a first-timeparent.
All right, so okay, I might Imight lean on mom and dad, okay.
(19:37):
But you know what?
At the end of the day, that's awhole different generation.
They're not living with me onthe front lines, they don't
really understand.
So, what do you do?
You go consult other parents,and I mean you do that
throughout their entireadolescent journey.
Well, Johnny's not doing hishomework, or Susie's not, you
(19:58):
know, uh eating right, and andthey got this, that it's it's a
peer group appearance.
And so I say that the same thingapplies in in business.
When you can surround yourselfwith trusted and other
like-minded leaders, and theymay not be in your particular
(20:18):
industry, that doesn't thatdoesn't really matter.
Matter of fact, we don't allowthat in in our business group,
but you're gonna get a lot ofdifferent perspectives, you're
gonna get a lot of differentexperience, and you're gonna get
a lot of different brain power.
And and if you go it alone, youthink you know all the answers,
and you got all the answers,it's gonna be a rough journey.
(20:40):
Where if you've got others youcan trust and say, and be
vulnerable, hey man, I'm havingthis struggle, um, and I just
want others to kind of weigh inand help me.
You're gonna get a lot ofknowledge and a lot of input
that that will help you.
And I believe every it's it inthe the old adage, it's lonely
(21:00):
at the top.
That is very, very true.
You might have a team, but thatteam has their own, they're they
have their own uh agenda, if youwill, their own dreams.
And so sometimes it's lonely.
You just need somebody to ventwith, right?
Just somebody's to have thathave an ear for you.
(21:20):
Well, that's what a peer groupreally is all about, and and you
will get a lot of wisdom.
Um, you you'll get a lot of bestpractices, you know, shared that
will help you along thisdifficult journey of leadership.
Uh, and and so that's that's thepower of a peer group, and we
(21:41):
call it a peer advisory uh groupbecause you're giving advice to
each other all the time.
And and and we go through aprocess, Grant.
Uh we we meet once a month.
I I ask my leaders, I want youto take a full day to work on
your business, not in it.
And and we do a part of thatmeeting we we call issue
(22:03):
processing.
Who's facing a challenge?
Who's facing the issue?
Well, guess what?
80% of those issues are about,it's about people, and that's a
dynamic that's if people arethat that's a that's a that's a
wild ride when you have lots ofdifferent people with lots of
different personalities andbehaviors, and and leaders have
(22:25):
to deal with with that.
And so they they will reallyconsult with each other.
Well, how do I handle this kindof behavior and that kind of
behavior and and and the like?
SPEAKER_00 (22:34):
No, that's important.
The the human intelligence, theHI in the room.
I think we are starting toreally understand that component
as we as the world kind ofengages in artificial
intelligence even today, andthey're starting to realize
artificial intelligence and howit works is more problemistic,
meaning it doesn't always comeout with the exact same answer
(22:58):
every single time.
There's deterministic, and thenthere's um what AI is doing is
giving you um options andanswers for every single thing.
But the human element is kind ofthe same.
You can say the same thing tothe to the same group of people,
and you'll probably get 10different uh understanding and
(23:19):
and variables uh as a part ofit.
You're like, wow, did I say 10different things?
I don't think so, but that'swhat you're dealing with.
Now, you said something I thinkis so important, that is that
CEO, the isolation and thevulnerability of the position
that you're in.
And I know that leaders oftenfeel pressure to always project
(23:42):
strength.
And in my brave work, Iemphasize boldness through
vulnerability.
My question is how do you createa space where CEOs can be bold
enough to be vulnerable?
And what breakthroughs usuallyhappen as a result of that?
SPEAKER_01 (24:04):
It's hard.
You know, you you nailed it.
Um leaders believe they have tobe the strong person, and I
believe all too often they puton this facade.
I got this, I'm tough, I've madeit, I'm gonna make this happen.
And and they there are too manyleaders who I believe vulnerable
(24:28):
they think vulnerability isweakness, okay.
But you know what happens whenyou are truly vulnerable?
Guess what we humans want to do?
We want to help.
And whether it's in a peer groupwhere you come and say, hey,
folks, I've got this challenge,and I think I know what I want
to do, but I'm not really sure.
(24:49):
I just want some help.
You know what?
When you go to your employeesand your team and say, Team,
we're facing this challenge.
I think I know what we ought todo, but I really want your input
because I'm not a hundredpercent sure.
That's vulnerability, but guesswhat they're gonna want to do?
(25:11):
They're gonna want to help you,even though you're the leader.
It's not any sign of a lack ofdisrespect.
We humans have this nature wherewe want to reach out and help
others, but you gotta you gottasend the signal that I do, I am
looking for help, and that'svulnerable.
So it's really hard to get someleaders, you know, past that I'm
(25:36):
tough, I'm strong, I got this,I'm gonna do it.
And to being, hey, I don't haveall the answers.
And I claim that vulnerability,if you're vulnerable, you want
to learn.
Yeah, vulnerable people readbooks, they listen to others,
they they strive to learn.
So the best leaders are lifelonglearners, they're curious, so
(25:57):
they they want more and moreinformation.
And and but there are people outthere, and I've met them.
Nope.
And they're not gonna show anyvulnerability, and they put this
facade on it's fake.
SPEAKER_00 (26:10):
Yeah, and you know that's already kind of you know,
BS in the background.
Like, nah, everybody needs someassistance and some help.
Like, you have a certain skillset, a certain uh strength that
you have, but in any SWOTanalysis, right?
There's strengths, there'sweaknesses, there's
opportunities, and there'sthreats.
And we all have these things,it's just do you understand
(26:33):
where you sit in relation to allthose things at one time.
Now, one thing I liked aboutyourself, you talk about the
question you can't Google.
You say you can't Google what amI not doing that I should be
doing, and in my framework andbrain, that relates to vision
(26:53):
and excellence, and that'sseeing blind spots before they
become barriers.
If you could, could you share astory where asking that question
changed a leader's trajectory?
SPEAKER_01 (27:09):
Um yeah, I um boy, the about the blind spot?
Yeah.
Um it's it it takes here here'smy experience.
Um in in a in a CEO peeradvisory group, number one,
(27:34):
people who get come into thegroup, they've got to trust the
group first.
So they're not they're not goingto open up, and it's hard to
figure out their blind spot ifthey don't open up and trust.
So what I do is I do one-on-onecoaching with each of my
(27:55):
leaders.
And you know, in my you know,coaching training, I've I've
learned how to ask the questionsthat need to be asked, the right
questions, the non-judgmentalquestions, getting them to open
up.
Because what what we're whatI've learned is that everybody
(28:16):
makes a decision, or everydecision is made based on values
and beliefs.
Okay.
Well, guess when those valuesand beliefs were really formed.
They're formed as in our youngeryears, okay.
That's especially being raisedby your parents, you start
getting your values, you startbelieving things, and and and
(28:39):
and that's how and and so thenthere become, you know, there
are self-limiting beliefs.
And again, this is a little bitof a vulnerability, where they
have a belief that limitsthemselves.
And so, as a coach, in thequestions I ask, I have to get
down into an emotional level.
What do you what's really goingon here?
(29:00):
Is that what you really trulybelieve?
What makes you believe that?
And what if that wasn't true?
How would you react?
Okay, so by getting deep on aone-on-one, because I think a
blind spot is really kind of aself-limiting belief in some
sense, but getting into thosedeep questions, getting them in
(29:23):
into thinking about well, whatvalue, what belief is driving
what you're thinking?
And is it really true?
Let's let's and and if you andif this wasn't true, how would
you react?
And just going through that thatback and forth, getting them
into that mindset is whatbecomes really, really important
in my mind to eliminate theblind spots.
SPEAKER_00 (29:45):
That is uh you know it there.
Uh, I think anybody listening tothis, they need to rewind, hit
the rewind button to it again,because getting deep uh beyond
uh the surface really.
Seeing what's uh beneath um yourfeelings, your the thoughts that
(30:05):
you have, your your daily habitsis so important.
I always look at the icebergeffect.
Only 30% of an iceberg isvisible, 70% is on is is not
visible and it's underneath thesurface, but sometimes you don't
always get a chance to see that,so you can help somebody to be
able to see certain things andmake adjustments and then they
(30:27):
can move forward.
Now you you go to platform as aspeaker and a thought leader,
and I'm all about boldness, I'mall about authenticity as keys
to personal branding.
And if you would like just sharesome advice that you would give
to leaders who want to stand outas an authentic voice in their
(30:50):
industry.
SPEAKER_01 (30:52):
Uh my if they want to be uh okay, I'll I'll say
this.
I'm gonna start here.
Yeah, because this is one of thechallenges with leaders.
Most leaders get in theirposition due to a skill set, an
expertise, or knowledge.
Oh, I I I graduated school withan engineering degree, I became
(31:16):
really good with that, I startedmy own company, now I'm the
leader.
Okay, and and if you go back andask them, well, how much real
leadership training did you get?
Where did you learn to motivate,inspire, influence other people?
Because at the end of the day, Idon't care what business you're
(31:37):
in, you're in a people business.
You've got customers who arepeople, you've got employees who
are people, you've got vendorswho are people.
How do you deal with people?
Where did you get that training?
Okay, and and so um, and this iswhat I encourage them.
(31:57):
I say, hey, if you work with me,I'm I'm gonna try and help you
become a coach.
And especially in thismulti-generational workforce
that that leaders deal with.
I joke about this.
You you can tell I got a littlebit of gray hair.
I'm a I'm a boomer.
Yeah, and I and I joke aboutthis.
Being a boomer, I grew up in thecarrot and the stick era, but I
(32:20):
don't remember the carrot, I doremember the stick.
SPEAKER_00 (32:24):
That's right.
SPEAKER_01 (32:25):
You know, Gen Z and Millennials, they all they all
have different values and theythink differently.
And and as a as a leader, you'vegot to understand that.
What are their overall values?
What how do they really think?
And and so by coaching, becominga coach, learning how to ask the
(32:47):
questions, um, and engage themthe way they really want to be
engaged, uh, you know, thatthat's a skill you're not
probably, you know, have learnedin school or maybe beyond.
It it takes post-education, reallife education, um, you know,
(33:08):
uh, to do that.
SPEAKER_00 (33:10):
I tell you, this this has been wonderful, Jim.
We're coming to the conclusionof our podcast, and I always
like to do this in the moment.
I like to ask my guest, how didthey feel uh during this
interview?
Meaning, you've been on, you'vedone a lot of different uh
podcast interviews, you'vetalked to a lot of different
(33:30):
people, you've been on stages.
This is your first opportunityto be on the Follow the Brand
podcast with Grant McGaugh.
What kind of feedback would yougive me?
SPEAKER_01 (33:41):
Oh, I I love I, you know, I've been on a lot of
podcasts and nobody'd asked meabout resiliency.
Okay.
Um, so uh uh and I I love thatfrom you because you recognize
what it takes.
And I think out of any uh, youknow, that that has got to be in
one of the top threecharacteristics or traits of a
(34:03):
leader because it isn't alwaysgonna go your way.
So that's what I appreciateabout you, just reminding me,
you know, reminding me of that,um, and how important it is.
And and you know, I think Idon't know, maybe maybe I'm
maybe I'm biased, but today'sworld I think it's too easy to
(34:27):
quit.
Okay, there's there's just toomany, too many exit avenues you
can take.
Yeah, you gotta know when toquit, but have you been
resilient enough to try everyavenue you can try?
Have you gotten help um fromothers so that you know you can
be more resilient and keep atit?
Um I I had a mentor early uh inmy professional career that told
(34:52):
me, before you can succeed, youmust fail.
You don't know what success is,and I've I've kept that, and I
have failed.
And I appreciate uh every littlesuccess that I that I hope I
get.
SPEAKER_00 (35:10):
No, you that is so first of all, it's very
authentic.
Um, and the resiliency factor isparamount even in in today's
world, in 2025, in a world thatyou can get instant
gratification, and you thinkthat everything is just very,
very simple.
You can just go to the store,grab you something to eat and go
home.
You don't realize that farmerworked a lot of hours to produce
(35:33):
those things, and everyeverything along that supply
chain had to be you know justright in order for you to have
that kind of uh uh very quickresult.
And I love how you said it, youknow, in the very beginning of
this podcast, those fourelements of success that is very
difficult.
It's a constant moving target.
(35:53):
So if you're not resilient inwhat you're doing and you come
across a little bit of failure,and I think you know, my my 62
years now on this planet, I'veknown more failure than success.
But I think it's relevant, it'srelative, right?
How do you see failure?
How do you see success?
A lot of times it's just alearning experience, and you
(36:14):
don't want to think about this.
Like, you know what, in order tolearn that skill, it's really
gonna take you three to fiveyears, not three to five weeks,
you know.
So it's sometimes like you canaccept that or or or or not.
Um, but if you do your yourresearch and your due diligence,
you'll see that most people, ifyou really peel back that onion
(36:34):
and go back to that icebergeffect I talked about and talk
about, hey, you're seeing, youknow, you talk about the Amazons
and the eBays and that, and youdon't realize they lost money.
They were you in relative thing,they were very they were
failures for a long time, butthey were failing forward.
And then, but these they theystayed at it.
And I tell people, you know,read Bezos' story.
(36:55):
I think it was like 10 years,they made no money, right?
SPEAKER_01 (36:58):
He was vilified for burning cash, but he was
steadfast that the customer wasatop of the chain, and boy, you
talk about resilient.
That's a great lesson inresiliency, right there.
I love you mentioning that.
SPEAKER_00 (37:14):
Absolutely, absolutely.
So before we conclude, you know,you've got to tell us how to to
contact you, tell us you know, alittle bit, you know, because
this is the I think people thatare listening to this are
saying, hey, I think I canutilize these services.
So tell a little bit aboutVistics, what they can do, and
then how they can contact you.
SPEAKER_01 (37:34):
Yeah, uh, I'm a Vista chair.
You can find me throughVistage.com.
I'm a very active LinkedIn user.
So find me, Jim Bramlett, there.
My website is uhjimbramlett.com, and I have a
second website called strategiesto grow.com.
So you can reach out to me.
(37:56):
I I love helping.
Uh uh, I'm a servant leader.
Anything I can do to helpothers, I'm going to do.
So please reach out and I'mhappy to help.
And Grant, thank you for whatyou do, uh, helping uh leaders
and others think through lifebecause it's it's a it's a
challenge.
SPEAKER_00 (38:12):
It absolutely is, but when we can share, you know,
this is kind of a peerdiscussion between uh myself and
yourself, and this is how we allget better and we can move
forward in understanding ourjourney.
And I encourage your entireaudience to to listen to all the
episodes on Follow Brand at FiveStar BDM.
That is the number five.
That is B for brand, D forDevelopment Informasters.com.
(38:36):
This has been wonderful.
I want to thank you again andmuch success to the Kansas City
Chiefs.
SPEAKER_01 (38:45):
Thanks, Grant.
SPEAKER_00 (38:46):
You're welcome.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!