August 11, 2025 • 44 mins
What if your fitness tracker could revolutionize not just your health habits, but the entire healthcare system? This fascinating conversation with João Bocas, globally recognized as "The Wearable Expert," explores how wearable technology might democratize healthcare and shift power dynamics toward consumers.
João shares his remarkable journey from Portuguese immigrant with no English skills to renowned healthcare innovation consultant. His path was shaped by a powerful personal transformation—moving from an unhealthy lifestyle of excessive drinking and smoking in his twenties to becoming a passionate advocate for wellness technology. "I'm a 25 or 26-year-old man and I feel like I'm 60 already," he recalls thinking at his turning point. This revelation sparked a lifelong commitment to health and eventually led him to pioneer work in digital health.
The discussion dives deep into wearable technology's evolution from primitive pedometers to sophisticated health monitoring devices. João emphasizes that technology alone isn't the solution—behavioral change remains the critical foundation for health improvement. "The wearable is not the miracle. The miracle lies with us, our will, our desire, our self-care," he explains. This perspective cuts through the hype surrounding health tech and focuses on its true purpose: enabling better decisions.
Perhaps most compelling is João's vision for healthcare's future. He foresees a world where individuals own their health data and use it to negotiate more equitable insurance premiums. "I exercise five times a week. Why shall I pay the same premium as someone who exercises once a week and smokes?" This potential power shift represents a fundamental disruption to traditional healthcare economics, particularly relevant to markets like the United States where insurance costs remain a significant burden.
Whether you're a healthcare professional, technology enthusiast, or simply someone interested in taking control of your wellness journey, this conversation offers valuable insights into how personal responsibility and technological innovation might reshape healthcare for everyone. Subscribe to the Follow the Brand Podcast for more conversations that explore the intersection of personal branding, technology, and industry transformation.
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Follow The Brand! We hope you enjoyed learning about the latest marketing trends and strategies in Personal Branding, Business and Career Development, Financial Empowerment, Technology Innovation, and Executive Presence. To keep up with the latest insights and updates from us, be sure to follow us at 5starbdm.com. See you next time on Follow The Brand!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Okay, Grant, Look lovely to meeting you.
All right, let's get ready.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
All right.
So this is the Follow the BrandPodcast.
I am Grant McGill.
I am so happy today as we getnear and dear to things that are
personal to me, and that'spersonal branding, business
development, and I love myinternational community.
I had the opportunity to speakto a gentleman who is residing
(00:28):
in the London area and also isfrom Portugal.
You know, these are biggerthings and I'm trying to
understand, like well, what islife like there?
What is going on here?
So I come across Jao Bocas.
Jao Bocas is very, very wellknown in his community.
He has been doing a number ofthings for a number of years and
(00:50):
he's a gigantic healthcareadvocate and I couldn't think of
anyone better that I would wantto have on this show right now
to talk about some things Ithink are near and dear to a lot
of people's hearts.
So before I go off on mytangent, I want to introduce you
to Jao.
So introduce yourself.
Let's talk a little bit moreabout you.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Yeah, thank you, grant.
Lovely to meeting you.
Nice, to see you again.
So my name is João Bocas.
I'm delighted to be here on theshow with you, with your
audience, with your connections,and broadcasting to the world.
I'm a Portuguese national basedin the UK for the last well,
20,.
I came in 2001,.
So it will be 24 years exactly.
(01:33):
To cut the story short, as achild I was always very
interested in two things.
I only wanted to be two things.
One, like many boys, I wantedto be a soccer player.
Because he played foot, heplayed soccer on the streets in
europe and everybody, all thekids, want to be a soccer player
(01:55):
.
Yeah, I was one of them.
Yeah, or I was also attractedto the business world.
So I only wanted to do a.
I only wanted to be aprofessional sportsman or a
businessman.
Okay, they were my two things.
And I remember as a child goingto this market second secondhand
marketplace a very young child,11, 12 years old, with my older
(02:21):
peers for my street to sell myold toys and some belongings and
do business, and hugglingalready Like, how much is that?
Oh, 12 bucks, I'll give you six.
All this was already ingrainedin me, the business world, since
a very young age.
So anyway, I've always beenvery active as a sports person.
(02:45):
I didn't make the professionalstandard, but I was an amateur.
I've done triathlons, I've donerunning, I was a soccer referee
, I was a soccer coach in the UKand when I moved to the UK as
an immigrant which I don't likethe word, but I've done all
these jobs that perhaps you haveto do because I didn't speak
English when I came in 2001,.
(03:05):
Grant, I didn't like the word,but I've done all these jobs
that perhaps you have to dobecause I didn't speak English
when I came in 2001,.
Grant, I didn't speak English.
It was horrible, to be honestwith you, the first two years in
England I didn't like it at allbecause I was just doing
cleaning in restaurants, makingbeds in the hotels.
Like Brighton, where I live, isa very cosmopolitan and a
touristic place, so you getstudents and people from around
(03:28):
the world, so it's always workin hospitality, also in catering
.
So I was doing all these jobs.
And then my study.
I done a college degree, as Itold you before, I studied as a
professional coach and mypassion is sport.
You know sports and health,sometimes they go hand in hand
(03:49):
the performance, the well-beingyou know.
And yeah, I progressed.
I was a soccer coach for anumber of years, I was a soccer
referee, I was a personaltrainer.
I've always been into thiswell-being stuff.
And then my transition tocorporate wellness.
I was doing in London somecorporate wellness work with the
(04:09):
stress management well-beingprograms, employee well-being,
and I'm from 20 years ago.
I remember the pedometers.
I don't know if you rememberthat.
They're the single-digitpedometers that you say oh, you
have like 400 steps.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah,very, very digit pedometers
that you said oh, you have like400 steps, oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, it's very, veryold-fashioned.
I think they made in china.
They only tell you the number.
(04:29):
Yeah, they didn't have anythingelse, they're just very, very,
yeah, very low tech yeah, verylow tech.
yeah, no tech at all.
Yeah, just the steps.
No, sorry, I remember.
I remember that I think we camea long way only these.
To transition the conversationto healthcare and wearables as
you know, I'm a very bigadvocate of wearables.
But, yeah, I progressed andmoved into healthcare and now
(04:53):
I'm into global healthcareinnovation.
I run a consulting business andwe're talking about the US and
primarily I'm global.
I have a global brand, but I'mtargeting the European and the
US markets and, as I told you, Iwas in Miami a couple of weeks
ago.
So it's so many things to talkabout so I'll pass the ball over
to you.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Your brand, your personal brand, is pretty
remarkable.
That's what attracted me to you.
And then we got into someconversation.
You're also a global speakeraround digital health technology
.
You're known as a you know adigital health influencer big
time.
And what you're doing aroundthe world of wearables you know
the.
You're known as the wearableexpert.
(05:36):
You brought up pedometer.
I barely remembered all thatstuff.
You know you're coming all theway full.
Most people are familiar withFitbits and things of that
nature, but I want to understandwhat inspired you to focus so
strongly on wearable technologyand how do you see wearable
shaping the future of healthcarein the next five to 10 years?
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Sure, well, my biggest motivator, grant.
Sometimes I don't when youmention, for example, the why
why are you doing what you aredoing?
Well, my biggest motivator,grant sometimes I don't when you
mention, for example, the whywhy are you doing what you are
doing?
I'm a passionate person.
I have a lot of energy, I'dlike to go in the gym in the
(06:19):
morning and then I crack on withmy day.
Sometimes I think I don't havea why, but I have a why and this
is my motivator.
I'm very into health.
Keep healthy, healthy mind,healthy body.
Because and I'll tell you why Idon't reveal this very, very
often.
It's not a secret, I'm notashamed of that.
But for a number of years, Ilive a very unhealthy lifestyle,
(06:41):
drink too much smoke, probably,take things that I shouldn't be
taking, you know.
And over 20 years ago, I had aturnaround in my life and I said
right, I don't want to be doingthis anymore.
I'm a 25 or 26 year old man andI feel like I'm 60 already.
(07:07):
Yeah, because of that lifestyle,you think you're having fun,
but in, in all essence, you'renot having fun.
Going to bed at five or six inthe morning and wake up at 12,
that's not, that's not alive.
And also you feel drainedbecause that the the consumption
of alcohol, for example.
It drains your body, it'spoison.
(07:29):
You think you're having funbecause you're having a great
time.
Let's have another drink.
One drink turns into two, twoturns into three, four, five and
all of a sudden you're justlike not enjoying anymore.
So I had a turnaround in mylife anymore.
So I had a turnaround in mylife.
From then on I uh stoppedsmoking, uh stopped drinking,
(07:50):
and I was into.
I've always been into sport asa young, as I mentioned to you.
So I came back to that and Istarted to fulfill my um, my, my
, my passion again about feelingwell doing sport.
And then I started doing a lotof education.
I was in education for over 80years.
I was a mature student.
(08:11):
I've done a college degree inBrighton, a sports degree, and
I've done many otherqualifications, all
health-related Massage therapy,stress management.
I've done a couple of courseson substance misuse and drug
addiction and alcohol so all two.
(08:31):
And I'm also very big onpersonal development.
I like to educate myself butalso project that to the world.
So that's probably my mainreason why I transition into
healthcare and if I'm honestwith you grant, sometimes I'm
very frustrated with healthcarebecause it's complicated, is um
(08:56):
is a very peculiar industry,difficult to get business,
difficult to understand what'sgoing on.
Sometimes I think I wish I wasin fintech or in banking,
because you can make more moneyand it's more straightforward.
You show the return oninvestment.
People buy or not in healthcareis not like that.
You might have a great product,you might have a great service,
(09:16):
you might be a great guy, youmight have a lot of knowledge,
but all of a sudden is a lot ofpushback in healthcare.
Yeah, I wonder why.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
That is what you just said, and I've been in
healthcare 10 years or so.
I've been in informationtechnology 25, 30 years.
It is a unique industry andthere's more probably regulation
and compliance and things ofthat nature.
They operate.
Some of them I'm talking the usexperience very low margins.
(09:47):
I I think you're in the uk soyou're probably working with
more government systems, um, butthere are private systems.
Why do you think there's such?
Why do you think there's suchresistance to some in from a
business development standpointin health care?
Speaker 1 (10:02):
yeah, that's a very, that's a very.
Oh, that's like the the milliondollar question.
I mean, to be honest, grantees,I wish I had the answer.
I'm gonna have an attempt toanswer the best of my ability.
Uh, one in one hand, I see theneed to, I see the need to have
regulation to protect people, todo the the right thing, to not
(10:26):
let anyone come to the people'sbodies or interventions or
services, like, just like as inany other industry.
I understand that you have toprotect the human being,
integrity and everything.
But, on the other hand, is likeone thing that is like feels
(10:49):
very contradictory is, forexample, I'm not a scientist,
I'm not a physician, I'm not adata technology expert but, for
example, we have data.
Is all these discussions aroundaccess to the data to support
the patient, to benefit thephysician and the patient, to
open up, and a lot of the thingsare not available.
(11:11):
Even though, for example, I getyour data, or as a physician or
as an organization, I'm notable to share, even with other
organizations, with otherorganizations.
Only now, for example, in theNetherlands, they have a new
health data act Betweenorganizations.
(11:35):
They start to allow sharinginformation for the benefit of
the population and the systems,of course, but only now we're
starting to allow that.
In so many countries in Europethis is not happening and in the
US this is not happening, evenin UK, grant, I don't like to
criticize the health system.
We have a great NHS, theNational Health System, which is
brilliant good service, gooddoctors, good physicians, free
(11:58):
of charge.
I'm sorry, I know in the US isnot like that, but there is this
big fragmentation.
For example, if you go toManchester you break a leg.
In London they don't have yourdata because they do long
tenders with differentorganizations, different systems
, different infrastructures ofhealth IT.
So in London they might haveOracle, in Manchester they might
(12:22):
have IBM.
And who runs the strategy?
Perhaps don't think about theseissues for the long term.
What I really like is the Nordiccountries.
They plan really well inadvance, if you like Norway,
finland, denmark, estonia.
They have the electronic healthsystems in one place.
(12:44):
They can control in a nice waythe population health.
In Poland, for example, theyallow the startups to do pilots
with the hospitals.
They're very keen for people toincentivize innovation a lot.
So there are many things thatUS and other European countries
can learn from the Nordics.
(13:06):
I've been doing health techconsultancy with the Nordics for
a long time.
They're very big on wearables.
If you see, actually all themain wearables innovators come
out of Finland.
Because they have this cultureof innovation, they have this
culture of incentive, they havethis culture of they.
They have this culture ofincentive, they have this
(13:27):
culture of.
They encourage people to take arisk into entrepreneurship,
into failing, into having astartup, into so anyway, I think
I divert a bit from thehealthcare.
But coming back slightly to thehealthcare, yep, it's a very
conservative industry.
It's just the way it is.
I see the healthcare industryvery in comparison with the
(13:55):
insurance industry veryconservative, slow to change,
risk averse, which isunderstandable.
But we should be taking a bitmore risks.
We can't be in the same placefor 20 years.
That's not good for anybody,you know.
But things are progressing.
(14:16):
I see a lot of progress withwearables.
I see a lot of progress with it, with innovation.
The off systems are adoptingtechnology and and you are in
technology, grant you see thatthing.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Yeah, I hear what you're saying, because and we're
at this precipice of a majorwhat's a technological platform
shift, getting into artificialintelligence and when I explain
that I'd say, you know we'vebeen in information technology.
Let's just say, for you know 40, 50 years, say the 1980s, all
the way.
You know we've been ininformation technology.
Let's just say, for you know 40, 50 years, say the 1980s, all
the way you know personalcompute, social compute or
(14:50):
social media and mobile compute,all the way to now 2025.
We're going now into what Icall intelligent technology.
Excuse me, intelligenttechnology and intelligent
technology I mean the machinecan also be not just reactive,
reactive but proactive.
This is going to be a majorshift in what we're doing.
So your healthcare system can'tjust sit on the sidelines and
(15:10):
watch these things take placebecause of the human experience.
All the way around is changing.
Now you're doing wearables.
Now, before people weren'tmonitoring their own healthcare,
they would just come in.
I would call it very passive,very active, and when they
engage with the health caresystem, now they can be more
(15:31):
proactive.
Right, having their ownelectronic health record.
Hey, I've got my own record.
I'm maintaining my own heartrate rhythms, my breathing or my
blood pressure variables.
I can do all this myself now,and we all know that wearables
can collect massive amounts ofdata right that could be shared
(15:56):
with the healthcare system.
I want to know what do youthink are the you know, ethical
or regulatory challenges we needto solve to build trust I think
trust is a big thing and tounlock this full potential for
everyone, whether you'repatients or you're a provider,
or you're an insurance entity, apayer more or less.
(16:21):
Do you think wearables in thatnature and understanding this
intelligent technology platformthat's coming online, is it
going to make a difference?
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, let me share my vision.
I was doing um An event withMedtronic this week and they had
a new partnership with awearable company and I've done a
keynote around wearables andI've been doing research Grant
around wearables for over 10years.
If you see my office desk athome, I had wearables everywhere
(16:54):
and people send me wearables totest.
But anyway, my vision is thatwearables can change the world,
certainly the healthcare world,and we came a long way, you know
, and I think a lot of thingsare happening.
You know, COVID reallyhighlighted a lot of the.
(17:14):
We need to do somethingdifferent, more preventative.
Actually, we can't go to thehospital because it's a lockdown
.
It's got to be digital, it'sgot to be an app, it's got to be
the transfer of the data.
I'm going next week so I needto like make the appointment
digitally, all these things.
So COVID exposed a new way ofdoing things digitally.
(17:39):
Wearables certainly have a lotof potential.
There are ethical implicationsand I'm going to share with you
a piece of research that I'vedone a while ago in terms of
user-related barriers, because,as a, as a user, people don't
use wearables because sometimesthey don't see the value.
They say, oh well, I'm usingthis.
If you are diabetic, you needyour insulin pump or this.
(17:59):
If you are diabetic, you needyour insulin pump, or you know
you need your reading and youneed your insulin.
That's different.
You are kind of, in a way,obliged because you have a
serious medical condition to use.
Apart from that, if you use awearable, for example a Fitbit I
was having a conversation aboutwearables today If you think
(18:21):
wearable is going to be themiracle for you to lose weight,
you might be disappointed,because putting a wrist on your
arm is not going to make youlose weight.
But if you do the work, if youdo the walking, the running, the
change of behavior, you willlose weight.
But it's the other way around.
The change of behavior comesbefore the data.
Yes, people think, oh yeah, Ihave a wearable.
(18:42):
The wearables is not themiracle.
The miracle is it lies with us,our will, our desire, our
self-care, all these things.
But the lack of intrinsicmotivation is a big barrier.
As a user, you need to engagewith the wearable in a
meaningful way.
What is important to you?
Ah, for me, important istracking my sleep.
(19:04):
For me, what's important is Iwant to lose weight.
For me, what's important.
I want to have more energy, soI need to walk, exercise more.
And also, coming back to theethical aspect, privacy and
security concerns.
People hear all thisspeculation.
Oh, they sell my data to thepharma companies that just make
(19:25):
money with my data, with mywealth.
But most of the time, grant wedownload apps.
We don't even read anything.
I don't.
We download apps.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
They have all my data anyway.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
But all of a sudden, I'm very concerned about my
health data.
To be honest with you, grant,this is just a personal opinion.
It's not the world's opinion.
But I don't care if you have mydata, if you know that I walk
8,000 steps or if I sleep onlyfive hours last night, because
what are you?
You're not really going to doanything towards me Because
(20:01):
you're not really going to doanything towards me, but the
benefit on the other side ismuch greater than the harm.
That can be done with you.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Sure, that's not what you would call secure data to
the point where it's missioncritical, but it's good
information for the right entityto have to hopefully improve
your life.
You know that's the whole point.
Like people do social media allthe time but oh, somebody has
(20:29):
that data, like well, yeah, butwhat do you?
Speaker 1 (20:31):
you know, what am I going to do with it?
How valuable is it for me andalso the big tech companies
Google they know I log in todayon my laptop.
They have all your data anywayyou know.
So all the big players, theyknow what you're doing.
I mean, apple knows that I usemy phone 24 hours a day,
(20:51):
whatever that is, so then theyhave all your data anyway.
And um there this privacyconcern.
Also, the wearables are seensometimes in a wrong manner.
That is, this is like the bigbrother.
For example, if you have awearable in a corporate sense,
they think they might betracking the employees.
(21:13):
No, they're actually trying toget the employees to be a bit
more active and more lessstressed.
More productivity, betterperformance, all these things.
The corporates are interested.
But also wearables are seeingas the big brother.
Oh, now we have a wearable, weknow what they are doing, what
time they go to bed.
Nobody's gonna check rent, whattime you're going to bed, but
(21:34):
you have a wearable.
You're sharing the data.
People are concerned aboutthese things.
Oh, they know my behavior.
They know I'm gonna be out tillone o'clock in the morning
drinking.
They know what time I go home.
So all these, sometimes allthese things are all speculative
.
They're not even true, but it'slike this big brother world.
But all of a sudden you justpost on instagram at 12 o'clock
(21:55):
at night.
People know you are out anywayif they know.
But you are concerned aboutsharing your wearable data?
Yeah, so it doesn't make anysense.
But it's all these things.
Also one thing that wearablesare great but they're not
perfect, as you know.
Yes, also, wearables are veryprone to human errors.
(22:18):
We forget to charge them.
We lose our wearable all ohmany times.
I left my wearable on the topof the fridge, I forgot to
charge.
Thank god, I'm very proactive.
I go to the gym.
Next day I charge again, I getgoing.
But breaking the behavior forum for um a beginner user might
be a big thing.
Not everybody is motivated likeall the time and to use the
(22:43):
wearable, so it's a piece ofcertainly human behavior to do
around it.
Before Fitbit was sold toGoogle, they actually bought a
coaching company because it's abig gap between it's around the
behavior, as I mentioned.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
I like what you're saying.
It's not just the tech, it'snot the're saying, it's not just
the text, not the metrics, notjust the numbers, it's the
change in behavior, uh, or orthem being able to.
You know, as you say, if you,if you can't measure it, you
can't manage it right.
So the fibbit or rhetoric is aform of measurement, but it
should allow you to begin tomanage your health, if that is
(23:21):
your goal.
You want to manage it betterand then share that information
to someone else.
Understanding the differencebetween private and public
information is very important.
Like you know, it's it's athing, but we are in a digital
society, we're in a data-centricworld right now.
So I love what you're doing andwhat you're talking about is so
(23:43):
important.
As we talk about the change inhealthcare delivery, healthcare
policy.
Who owns the data?
Who doesn't own the data?
As I talked about earlier, yourwearable could be your own
private EHR, but there's somechanges going on, like, right
now, you might not be able andI've heard this going on and
(24:05):
let's say, you're going to getcar insurance.
Well, they're not going to sellyou car insurance if you don't
get this type of monitoring thatgoes along with it.
So we can see your behavior, tosee if you're low risk, high
risk, some of that.
You could say, yeah, therecould be some big brother to
that, you know, or it could be abenefit as well.
(24:25):
Hey, you know, I didn't knowthat was a risky behavior or
whatnot, and maybe it makes achange.
It could be the same thing likehey, you know what?
I'm not going to insure healthinsurance to Jao because he's
drinking and smoking all thetime and you know he's driving
up the healthcare costs and I'mgoing to either give him a super
high premium or I'm not goingto get any insurance at all, or
(24:48):
he stopped drinking and smokingand his numbers are coming down
and because his numbers arecoming down, I'm going to give
him a lower premium now.
So there's always benefits, butit's getting used to that newer
behavior.
What do you think?
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Yeah, there's always benefits, but it's getting used
to that newer behavior.
What do you think?
Yeah, grant, you touched onvery important things about like
the.
You know, I'm actuallysurprised.
I'm going to reveal somethingwith you.
I want to talk more aboutwearables, but I'm actually
surprised that in US, of course,there is a big issue around
health care the cost, theinjustice, the social element.
(25:25):
There are different and youknow, unfortunately, I was in
New York on 4th of December whenthey murdered the CEO of United
Health.
Oh, yeah, yeah, I'm not infavor of the healthcare system,
but I could never defend someonethat murdered a father because
I'm pissed off.
(25:45):
Okay, great, let's put thataside.
But that tells you that there'ssomething fundamentally wrong
with the system For someone togo to that extreme.
It's something wrong with thesystem, the cost, the injustice.
It's something wrong with thesystem, the cost, the injustice.
If you have health insuranceand they don't still want to pay
(26:07):
, there is a problem with that.
There is certainly, but anyway,but look, wearables could play
and will play a very importantrole in that, because my vision
is that eventually don't knowthis is gonna take, but this is
my vision for you, for the you,particularly for the us health
(26:28):
system and I have a big idea.
I think one day I will dosomething.
I would like to see the powershift and the power go to the
hand of the consumer.
I'm the consumer, I have mydata.
I go to the insurer.
I say, look, I exercise fivetimes a week.
(26:51):
Grant only exercises once aweek.
Why shall I pay?
And Grant smokes?
I don't smoke, I exercise five.
Why shall I pay the samepremium as Grant?
So my vision is that wearableseventually will democratize a
(27:12):
side of healthcare that is upfor disruption.
You know the cost, the way it'sdelivered, delivered.
The power shift because now weare even in here in uk and
around the world, we are betweenbrackets owned by the
professionals.
I have a, I have a problem.
(27:34):
I go to the professional.
For a long time I've beenthinking there's nothing wrong
with the clinicians.
I need the doctor.
I'm not a doctor.
If I have a problem, I needhelp.
But the power needs to change inhealthcare as a whole.
The clinician is there toassist you Great, the medical
(27:55):
staff are great.
But in terms of the wayhealthcare is structured is
wrong.
But in terms of the way healthcare is structured is wrong.
So I want to see the patient,the person, the individual, one
take more responsibility for thehealth.
Yeah, having more self-care,more good behavior.
(28:18):
Wearables can play a part inthere because they can assist
you.
They can help you, they cangive you some information.
They say I'm sleeping well 7hours a night, I'm healthy, I
lost weight, all these things,the behavior.
But then I want, I want that tobe a benefit in kind.
Perhaps the health insurerswill not like me in the future
(28:44):
because they have to get morehealthy patients and give them a
reduction in profit and inpremium, so they will not like
this power change, but I thinkit's very necessary one to
educate people, not just aroundwearables but around health as a
(29:04):
whole and health is a big thing.
Health is a big thing, fromnutrition to performance, to
sleep.
Now is a big trend longevityand I'll reveal another secret
for you.
I'm writing a book on wearablesfor longevity Nice.
So I see a big trend inlongevity.
(29:25):
Everybody wants to live longerso you can play with your
grandchildren.
You want to be healthy.
It's not just about livinglonger, it's about living longer
healthy and happier.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
That's it no point healthier.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Healthier is no point living till 90 and then you are
sick for 20 years.
No, if the point is beinghealthier and longer.
So but wrapping up this littleitem about my vision for the
wearables I want people to oneself-care more, getting the
benefit from the wellness, theinformation, the data and
(30:01):
everything, but also challengethe system.
I have my data.
You mentioned your electronichealth record.
I have my electronic healthrecord.
I didn't have any illness forthe last five years.
I'm really healthy.
I want a discount on my premium.
I don't want to pay that much.
Perhaps the health insurancewill not like that grant.
(30:23):
But let's use wearables forself-care to help us to be
healthier, but to pay less.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Yeah, all the way around.
It should help everyone becauseyou have less sick people.
I know in the US right now,we're running into this problem.
We have older population, wehave the oldest population that
we've ever had.
Well, what is that going tomean?
That means you're going to havea lot of probably unhealthy
people, uh, for a while.
So you're going to have tomonitor them somehow, uh, in
(30:57):
order to understand, kind ofwhere they're at in the
different life cycle and theirdaily experience and what that
looks like.
But it has to be, you know,ethical monitoring things of
that.
I think that's what people aretalking about the ethics,
because some people can use thisinformation wrongly, some
people can use it right andthere's some, you know, home
(31:19):
monitoring that's happening evennow because it's just the right
thing to do.
I want to talk to you aboutDigital Salutum.
That's your company.
You have a bold mission andthat is to drive transformation
into healthcare.
If you could, is there any oneproject or success story from
(31:40):
the work that you already aredoing that you want to let us
know about?
That really demonstrates what'spossible when innovation and
strategy kind of come together.
You want to talk about that.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Sure Grant.
I partner with many greatcompanies all sizes big, small
startups big tech brands.
All sizes big, small startups,big tech brands.
In the past I've done a lot ofpartnerships with the big
technology companies Salesforce,vmware.
I had Fujitsu.
(32:12):
I had many, many, manywell-known tech brands.
My mission is more about makinghealthcare uncomplicated.
I would like to make healthcarecomplicated, free for all, but
I'm not that powerful.
I'm just one man.
(32:34):
But they have this big vision.
But with digital salute, mypartner in in in in the past
with many tech brands.
Even recently, I partnered withmetronic around wearables,
around wearables.
Metronic are doing a big thingwith with wearables for the
hospitals, for the patients,serve people and now the time is
right for wearables.
But I would say one thing thatwe've done right with Digital
(32:59):
Solutum.
We partner with companies andup till now there was a lot of
social media thought leadership.
I had the YouTube channel.
I interviewed 150 leaders inhealthcare from around the world
.
I had the big names in US JohnNost, daniel Kraft, big thinkers
(33:19):
in healthcare, people thatreally drive change, eric Tupou
the big names in US.
I'm an open innovator.
I want to create like you.
I want to create like you, gooddiscussion, a good disruption,
(33:41):
a good challenge, and makehealthcare better for all and,
eventually, healthcare to bedemocratized, make people
healthier.
And you know, coming back veryquickly with wearables, your
health secretary, robert FKennedy Jr, recently mentioned
wearables.
His vision would be give everyNorth American a wearable, make
them healthier and let them takeresponsibility for their health
(34:04):
.
I think we are going through abig, at least a big shift in
thinking.
You know people already.
Everybody knows there is anissue in healthcare.
Everybody knows that we couldbe healthier.
Everybody knows we could bedoing something else.
Everybody knows that we shouldbe doing more.
(34:26):
And you are having these greatconversations.
Uh, grant, you are doing yourpart.
I believe I'm also doing my part, trying to instigate the
conversation with other leaderssuch as yourself, but we have a
long way to go.
Do you know?
Healthcare is so complex that Ialways think I'm in the same
(34:47):
place all the time.
For the last 20 years, I think,well, we are in the same place.
I go to an event.
People ask about data.
When they think about data, Ihave this reaction, grant oh no,
not again, you know, but we areprogressing, grant.
We are progressing.
(35:07):
We are starting to break intothe systems to share the data,
to open sources to.
We are, we are moving, buthealthcare is so, is so complex
that sometimes it feels like butnothing happened in the last 10
years, which is not true, youknow.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
I think what you just said is so important to
understand.
Sometimes it's subtle changesthat take place and you have to
talk to someone else that maybehad a different experience, and
then you start to realize, oh,that is different now, it used
to be this way or that way.
There's still a lot of room forgrowth.
There's another thing I want toask you as we get to the end of
(35:48):
our podcast.
Now, you yourself and I'm intopersonal branding and I love it
because it's a great way to getyour voice out.
It's a platform in which youcan then really project your
thought leadership where you are, I call in your zone of genius
of what you're doing.
It's so important.
(36:08):
Now you've built thisincredible global network.
In fact, you call yourself theglobal connector of titans,
which is very awesome.
Global connector of titans.
I want to ask you whatpractical advice would you give
professionals who want to builda network that truly creates
(36:29):
these types of opportunities?
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Brilliant Grant.
That kind of little line therestarted because I had this idea.
I'm a networker, as you know.
I could be doing many thingsnetworking, branding but I want
to stay still in Elf.
I want to stay in Elfcat a bitlonger because I have this big
idea to bring to the world.
(36:53):
But, um, I, I started havingthis idea right, I'm gonna start
having um a global elf techdinners.
Invite four, five, six elf techdinners.
That's why I went to new yorkon the fourth of july, um fourth
of um june, december, decemberwhen December, when the CEO met
(37:14):
the healthcare.
I've done a dinner for somehealth tech leaders Intimate.
I've done two in Miami, one inLisbon, one in London.
I've done one in New York.
I've done six.
I'm planning maybe perhaps onein Dublin and some more other
locations.
But I want people to talk toeach other and I want to bring
(37:35):
people together.
I like the events, but theevents are starting to get a bit
.
They charge a lot of money andI hear my peers saying well, I
went there, I met 30 people, butonly two or three people were
interested and I can bring thatto a dinner, no costs attached.
I don't charge you anything, Ijust bring good people together.
(37:56):
That's how the global titanscame along.
But this is the practicaladvice, coming back to your
question, that I would give.
If you are in healthcare or inautomobile, car insurance,
whatever that is and you want tobuild a personal brand, this is
how I've done it.
Anyway, I share from my ownexperience.
I started on LinkedIn 15 yearsago.
(38:16):
The first two, three years Iwas not very active because I
was doing all the still thesporty stuff personal traveling
and then I had an experiencewith a digital health startup.
I started doing a startup withanother guy in London and I
started hacking on LinkedIn.
One, you got to be consistent.
Two, you need to identify whoare the players in your industry
(38:40):
.
Oh, health technology there isgrant mccall is.
Your book is, yeah, identifythe big guys by basically, who
are the leaders in your industry?
Then and Grant, I'm sharing thisfor personal advice, yes, from
personal experience Then youstart interacting with them.
(39:01):
You comment on their posts,you're getting yourself known.
You are nobody Like.
Everybody else starts from zerofollowers, from nothing.
All of a sudden, oh, this guycomment on my post, you're
getting acknowledged one day.
And then, all of a sudden,perhaps I talk to grant, grant,
(39:23):
you grant, open the door andthen I can tell other leaders
I'm also talking to Grant, sothat it becomes much easier to
reach other people.
And then after that, everything, that's how I build my podcast.
I managed to get one or two bignames, yeah, by communicating
(39:45):
with them on LinkedIn, onLinkedIn, and then all of a
sudden I tell them actually Ialready interviewed Grant.
Why don't I interview you?
Because then it becomes easier,because all the big guys even
though this is non-charging butall the big guys, they don't
want to be left behind.
Yeah, they want to keep on top.
(40:05):
Yeah, but anyway, it's aboutdoing things that other people
are not willing to do.
I know I'm going to getrejected, but I'm going to reach
out to Grant.
I know Grant is a busy man, butI'm going to reach out to Grant
.
Grant, would you be interestedin doing an interview with me?
The worst case scenario is Inever hear from you.
(40:30):
The good case scenario is I'vegot an interview with Grant
McCown and after that I'm goingto become known.
I'm going to open the door togo to other leaders and say
Grant, I worked with Grant lastweek and that's basically in
(40:53):
simple terms of you built thecredibility people.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Now you go from an unknown to a known and like well
, if, if this person talking, Imean must be worth talking to,
and then and then you have tobring.
Obviously you still have tobring the value.
You have to bring the value ofwho you are, what you you bring
to the table and showcase yourexpertise and that just
solidifies the deal.
More or less Matter of fact.
(41:18):
I got to wrap up here, but Igot to ask you this, joe,
because I've been asking all myguests this and I always ask
this in the moment that they'vehad this interview.
You've been on a lot ofpodcasts.
You have your own own podcastnow.
You've had the experience ofbeing with me on the follow
brand podcast.
How did you feel about yourexperience?
Speaker 1 (41:40):
it was brilliant.
It was very personal.
Uh, you enabled me to come outwith the goods, to really focus
on, on myself from the insideout.
You know I, if you see, I,didn't come here to sell my
image or sell my services orsell my.
I could be myself.
I had a great experience withyou and I'm very happy that you
(42:03):
invite me and I felt, if I'mhonest, I'm not gonna give you
this feedback just to make youhappy, but I felt like it was a
very personal conversation andit was kind of special because I
felt good energy being myselfwith you.
So that is really, really good.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
I love it.
I love it.
That's why I like doing mypodcast, because we can be
authentic.
Authenticity is big with me andyou, man, I'm telling you the
information we just shared thepros and the cons of wearables
and sharing data and information.
All of that came out and theseare things that we need to have
(42:44):
general conversations about,because most people, they share
common ideas and you're likeokay, I hear what Grant and Joe
are talking about.
That's important.
We should just take this a stepfurther.
So it's not just thecorporations that are making
decisions for us.
It's not just governments thatare making decisions for us.
We, the people, are makingdecisions for ourselves and
(43:06):
making decisions that are theright choice for us.
I love this and I do want theaudience to know how to contact
you, how to get involved withyou, because you're doing such
great things.
And I tell you, if you're veryinterested in wearable
technology, healthcaretechnology and, again, personal
branding, I think João Boca isthe guy you need to talk to.
So tell us how to contact you.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
Yeah, sure, they can find me on LinkedIn, joão Boas.
Also, I have the companywebsite, digital Salutem,
wwwdigitalsalutemcom, or mypersonal number, which I'm going
to disclose I don't know ifthis is a good idea Plus
44-773-1983-936, or joao João atdigital salute themcom.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
That is so wonderful and again I want to thank you
for being on the follow brandpodcast.
I want to encourage your entireaudience to see all the
episodes and follow the brand.
There's over two to 300episodes there.
It's a digital community.
It is a library of knowledgeand information from people like
yourself who are sharingexpertise and knowledge that can
(44:17):
help people get to that nextstep.
You can do so at 5 Star BDM.
That is the number 5.
That is Star S-T-R BDM.
That's B for brand, b fordevelopment, infomasterscom.
I want to thank you again forbeing on the show.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
Thank you, grant, nice to be with you.
Okay, Grant, Look lovely to meeting you.
All right, let's get ready.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
All right.
So this is the Follow the BrandPodcast.
I am Grant McGill.
I am so happy today as we getnear and dear to things that are
personal to me, and that'spersonal branding, business
development, and I love myinternational community.
I had the opportunity to speakto a gentleman who is residing
(00:28):
in the London area and also isfrom Portugal.
You know, these are biggerthings and I'm trying to
understand, like well, what islife like there?
What is going on here?
So I come across Jao Bocas.
Jao Bocas is very, very wellknown in his community.
He has been doing a number ofthings for a number of years and
(00:50):
he's a gigantic healthcareadvocate and I couldn't think of
anyone better that I would wantto have on this show right now
to talk about some things Ithink are near and dear to a lot
of people's hearts.
So before I go off on mytangent, I want to introduce you
to Jao.
So introduce yourself.
Let's talk a little bit moreabout you.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Yeah, thank you, grant.
Lovely to meeting you.
Nice, to see you again.
So my name is João Bocas.
I'm delighted to be here on theshow with you, with your
audience, with your connections,and broadcasting to the world.
I'm a Portuguese national basedin the UK for the last well,
20,.
I came in 2001,.
So it will be 24 years exactly.
(01:33):
To cut the story short, as achild I was always very
interested in two things.
I only wanted to be two things.
One, like many boys, I wantedto be a soccer player.
Because he played foot, heplayed soccer on the streets in
europe and everybody, all thekids, want to be a soccer player
(01:55):
.
Yeah, I was one of them.
Yeah, or I was also attractedto the business world.
So I only wanted to do a.
I only wanted to be aprofessional sportsman or a
businessman.
Okay, they were my two things.
And I remember as a child goingto this market second secondhand
marketplace a very young child,11, 12 years old, with my older
(02:21):
peers for my street to sell myold toys and some belongings and
do business, and hugglingalready Like, how much is that?
Oh, 12 bucks, I'll give you six.
All this was already ingrainedin me, the business world, since
a very young age.
So anyway, I've always beenvery active as a sports person.
(02:45):
I didn't make the professionalstandard, but I was an amateur.
I've done triathlons, I've donerunning, I was a soccer referee
, I was a soccer coach in the UKand when I moved to the UK as
an immigrant which I don't likethe word, but I've done all
these jobs that perhaps you haveto do because I didn't speak
English when I came in 2001,.
(03:05):
Grant, I didn't like the word,but I've done all these jobs
that perhaps you have to dobecause I didn't speak English
when I came in 2001,.
Grant, I didn't speak English.
It was horrible, to be honestwith you, the first two years in
England I didn't like it at allbecause I was just doing
cleaning in restaurants, makingbeds in the hotels.
Like Brighton, where I live, isa very cosmopolitan and a
touristic place, so you getstudents and people from around
(03:28):
the world, so it's always workin hospitality, also in catering
.
So I was doing all these jobs.
And then my study.
I done a college degree, as Itold you before, I studied as a
professional coach and mypassion is sport.
You know sports and health,sometimes they go hand in hand
(03:49):
the performance, the well-beingyou know.
And yeah, I progressed.
I was a soccer coach for anumber of years, I was a soccer
referee, I was a personaltrainer.
I've always been into thiswell-being stuff.
And then my transition tocorporate wellness.
I was doing in London somecorporate wellness work with the
(04:09):
stress management well-beingprograms, employee well-being,
and I'm from 20 years ago.
I remember the pedometers.
I don't know if you rememberthat.
They're the single-digitpedometers that you say oh, you
have like 400 steps.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah,very, very digit pedometers
that you said oh, you have like400 steps, oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, it's very, veryold-fashioned.
I think they made in china.
They only tell you the number.
(04:29):
Yeah, they didn't have anythingelse, they're just very, very,
yeah, very low tech yeah, verylow tech.
yeah, no tech at all.
Yeah, just the steps.
No, sorry, I remember.
I remember that I think we camea long way only these.
To transition the conversationto healthcare and wearables as
you know, I'm a very bigadvocate of wearables.
But, yeah, I progressed andmoved into healthcare and now
(04:53):
I'm into global healthcareinnovation.
I run a consulting business andwe're talking about the US and
primarily I'm global.
I have a global brand, but I'mtargeting the European and the
US markets and, as I told you, Iwas in Miami a couple of weeks
ago.
So it's so many things to talkabout so I'll pass the ball over
to you.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Your brand, your personal brand, is pretty
remarkable.
That's what attracted me to you.
And then we got into someconversation.
You're also a global speakeraround digital health technology
.
You're known as a you know adigital health influencer big
time.
And what you're doing aroundthe world of wearables you know
the.
You're known as the wearableexpert.
(05:36):
You brought up pedometer.
I barely remembered all thatstuff.
You know you're coming all theway full.
Most people are familiar withFitbits and things of that
nature, but I want to understandwhat inspired you to focus so
strongly on wearable technologyand how do you see wearable
shaping the future of healthcarein the next five to 10 years?
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Sure, well, my biggest motivator, grant.
Sometimes I don't when youmention, for example, the why
why are you doing what you aredoing?
Well, my biggest motivator,grant sometimes I don't when you
mention, for example, the whywhy are you doing what you are
doing?
I'm a passionate person.
I have a lot of energy, I'dlike to go in the gym in the
(06:19):
morning and then I crack on withmy day.
Sometimes I think I don't havea why, but I have a why and this
is my motivator.
I'm very into health.
Keep healthy, healthy mind,healthy body.
Because and I'll tell you why Idon't reveal this very, very
often.
It's not a secret, I'm notashamed of that.
But for a number of years, Ilive a very unhealthy lifestyle,
(06:41):
drink too much smoke, probably,take things that I shouldn't be
taking, you know.
And over 20 years ago, I had aturnaround in my life and I said
right, I don't want to be doingthis anymore.
I'm a 25 or 26 year old man andI feel like I'm 60 already.
(07:07):
Yeah, because of that lifestyle,you think you're having fun,
but in, in all essence, you'renot having fun.
Going to bed at five or six inthe morning and wake up at 12,
that's not, that's not alive.
And also you feel drainedbecause that the the consumption
of alcohol, for example.
It drains your body, it'spoison.
(07:29):
You think you're having funbecause you're having a great
time.
Let's have another drink.
One drink turns into two, twoturns into three, four, five and
all of a sudden you're justlike not enjoying anymore.
So I had a turnaround in mylife anymore.
So I had a turnaround in mylife.
From then on I uh stoppedsmoking, uh stopped drinking,
(07:50):
and I was into.
I've always been into sport asa young, as I mentioned to you.
So I came back to that and Istarted to fulfill my um, my, my
, my passion again about feelingwell doing sport.
And then I started doing a lotof education.
I was in education for over 80years.
I was a mature student.
(08:11):
I've done a college degree inBrighton, a sports degree, and
I've done many otherqualifications, all
health-related Massage therapy,stress management.
I've done a couple of courseson substance misuse and drug
addiction and alcohol so all two.
(08:31):
And I'm also very big onpersonal development.
I like to educate myself butalso project that to the world.
So that's probably my mainreason why I transition into
healthcare and if I'm honestwith you grant, sometimes I'm
very frustrated with healthcarebecause it's complicated, is um
(08:56):
is a very peculiar industry,difficult to get business,
difficult to understand what'sgoing on.
Sometimes I think I wish I wasin fintech or in banking,
because you can make more moneyand it's more straightforward.
You show the return oninvestment.
People buy or not in healthcareis not like that.
You might have a great product,you might have a great service,
(09:16):
you might be a great guy, youmight have a lot of knowledge,
but all of a sudden is a lot ofpushback in healthcare.
Yeah, I wonder why.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
That is what you just said, and I've been in
healthcare 10 years or so.
I've been in informationtechnology 25, 30 years.
It is a unique industry andthere's more probably regulation
and compliance and things ofthat nature.
They operate.
Some of them I'm talking the usexperience very low margins.
(09:47):
I I think you're in the uk soyou're probably working with
more government systems, um, butthere are private systems.
Why do you think there's such?
Why do you think there's suchresistance to some in from a
business development standpointin health care?
Speaker 1 (10:02):
yeah, that's a very, that's a very.
Oh, that's like the the milliondollar question.
I mean, to be honest, grantees,I wish I had the answer.
I'm gonna have an attempt toanswer the best of my ability.
Uh, one in one hand, I see theneed to, I see the need to have
regulation to protect people, todo the the right thing, to not
(10:26):
let anyone come to the people'sbodies or interventions or
services, like, just like as inany other industry.
I understand that you have toprotect the human being,
integrity and everything.
But, on the other hand, is likeone thing that is like feels
(10:49):
very contradictory is, forexample, I'm not a scientist,
I'm not a physician, I'm not adata technology expert but, for
example, we have data.
Is all these discussions aroundaccess to the data to support
the patient, to benefit thephysician and the patient, to
open up, and a lot of the thingsare not available.
(11:11):
Even though, for example, I getyour data, or as a physician or
as an organization, I'm notable to share, even with other
organizations, with otherorganizations.
Only now, for example, in theNetherlands, they have a new
health data act Betweenorganizations.
(11:35):
They start to allow sharinginformation for the benefit of
the population and the systems,of course, but only now we're
starting to allow that.
In so many countries in Europethis is not happening and in the
US this is not happening, evenin UK, grant, I don't like to
criticize the health system.
We have a great NHS, theNational Health System, which is
brilliant good service, gooddoctors, good physicians, free
(11:58):
of charge.
I'm sorry, I know in the US isnot like that, but there is this
big fragmentation.
For example, if you go toManchester you break a leg.
In London they don't have yourdata because they do long
tenders with differentorganizations, different systems
, different infrastructures ofhealth IT.
So in London they might haveOracle, in Manchester they might
(12:22):
have IBM.
And who runs the strategy?
Perhaps don't think about theseissues for the long term.
What I really like is the Nordiccountries.
They plan really well inadvance, if you like Norway,
finland, denmark, estonia.
They have the electronic healthsystems in one place.
(12:44):
They can control in a nice waythe population health.
In Poland, for example, theyallow the startups to do pilots
with the hospitals.
They're very keen for people toincentivize innovation a lot.
So there are many things thatUS and other European countries
can learn from the Nordics.
(13:06):
I've been doing health techconsultancy with the Nordics for
a long time.
They're very big on wearables.
If you see, actually all themain wearables innovators come
out of Finland.
Because they have this cultureof innovation, they have this
culture of incentive, they havethis culture of they.
They have this culture ofincentive, they have this
(13:27):
culture of.
They encourage people to take arisk into entrepreneurship,
into failing, into having astartup, into so anyway, I think
I divert a bit from thehealthcare.
But coming back slightly to thehealthcare, yep, it's a very
conservative industry.
It's just the way it is.
I see the healthcare industryvery in comparison with the
(13:55):
insurance industry veryconservative, slow to change,
risk averse, which isunderstandable.
But we should be taking a bitmore risks.
We can't be in the same placefor 20 years.
That's not good for anybody,you know.
But things are progressing.
(14:16):
I see a lot of progress withwearables.
I see a lot of progress with it, with innovation.
The off systems are adoptingtechnology and and you are in
technology, grant you see thatthing.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Yeah, I hear what you're saying, because and we're
at this precipice of a majorwhat's a technological platform
shift, getting into artificialintelligence and when I explain
that I'd say, you know we'vebeen in information technology.
Let's just say, for you know 40, 50 years, say the 1980s, all
the way.
You know we've been ininformation technology.
Let's just say, for you know 40, 50 years, say the 1980s, all
the way you know personalcompute, social compute or
(14:50):
social media and mobile compute,all the way to now 2025.
We're going now into what Icall intelligent technology.
Excuse me, intelligenttechnology and intelligent
technology I mean the machinecan also be not just reactive,
reactive but proactive.
This is going to be a majorshift in what we're doing.
So your healthcare system can'tjust sit on the sidelines and
(15:10):
watch these things take placebecause of the human experience.
All the way around is changing.
Now you're doing wearables.
Now, before people weren'tmonitoring their own healthcare,
they would just come in.
I would call it very passive,very active, and when they
engage with the health caresystem, now they can be more
(15:31):
proactive.
Right, having their ownelectronic health record.
Hey, I've got my own record.
I'm maintaining my own heartrate rhythms, my breathing or my
blood pressure variables.
I can do all this myself now,and we all know that wearables
can collect massive amounts ofdata right that could be shared
(15:56):
with the healthcare system.
I want to know what do youthink are the you know, ethical
or regulatory challenges we needto solve to build trust I think
trust is a big thing and tounlock this full potential for
everyone, whether you'repatients or you're a provider,
or you're an insurance entity, apayer more or less.
(16:21):
Do you think wearables in thatnature and understanding this
intelligent technology platformthat's coming online, is it
going to make a difference?
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, let me share my vision.
I was doing um An event withMedtronic this week and they had
a new partnership with awearable company and I've done a
keynote around wearables andI've been doing research Grant
around wearables for over 10years.
If you see my office desk athome, I had wearables everywhere
(16:54):
and people send me wearables totest.
But anyway, my vision is thatwearables can change the world,
certainly the healthcare world,and we came a long way, you know
, and I think a lot of thingsare happening.
You know, COVID reallyhighlighted a lot of the.
(17:14):
We need to do somethingdifferent, more preventative.
Actually, we can't go to thehospital because it's a lockdown
.
It's got to be digital, it'sgot to be an app, it's got to be
the transfer of the data.
I'm going next week so I needto like make the appointment
digitally, all these things.
So COVID exposed a new way ofdoing things digitally.
(17:39):
Wearables certainly have a lotof potential.
There are ethical implicationsand I'm going to share with you
a piece of research that I'vedone a while ago in terms of
user-related barriers, because,as a, as a user, people don't
use wearables because sometimesthey don't see the value.
They say, oh well, I'm usingthis.
If you are diabetic, you needyour insulin pump or this.
(17:59):
If you are diabetic, you needyour insulin pump, or you know
you need your reading and youneed your insulin.
That's different.
You are kind of, in a way,obliged because you have a
serious medical condition to use.
Apart from that, if you use awearable, for example a Fitbit I
was having a conversation aboutwearables today If you think
(18:21):
wearable is going to be themiracle for you to lose weight,
you might be disappointed,because putting a wrist on your
arm is not going to make youlose weight.
But if you do the work, if youdo the walking, the running, the
change of behavior, you willlose weight.
But it's the other way around.
The change of behavior comesbefore the data.
Yes, people think, oh yeah, Ihave a wearable.
(18:42):
The wearables is not themiracle.
The miracle is it lies with us,our will, our desire, our
self-care, all these things.
But the lack of intrinsicmotivation is a big barrier.
As a user, you need to engagewith the wearable in a
meaningful way.
What is important to you?
Ah, for me, important istracking my sleep.
(19:04):
For me, what's important is Iwant to lose weight.
For me, what's important.
I want to have more energy, soI need to walk, exercise more.
And also, coming back to theethical aspect, privacy and
security concerns.
People hear all thisspeculation.
Oh, they sell my data to thepharma companies that just make
(19:25):
money with my data, with mywealth.
But most of the time, grant wedownload apps.
We don't even read anything.
I don't.
We download apps.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
They have all my data anyway.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
But all of a sudden, I'm very concerned about my
health data.
To be honest with you, grant,this is just a personal opinion.
It's not the world's opinion.
But I don't care if you have mydata, if you know that I walk
8,000 steps or if I sleep onlyfive hours last night, because
what are you?
You're not really going to doanything towards me Because
(20:01):
you're not really going to doanything towards me, but the
benefit on the other side ismuch greater than the harm.
That can be done with you.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Sure, that's not what you would call secure data to
the point where it's missioncritical, but it's good
information for the right entityto have to hopefully improve
your life.
You know that's the whole point.
Like people do social media allthe time but oh, somebody has
(20:29):
that data, like well, yeah, butwhat do you?
Speaker 1 (20:31):
you know, what am I going to do with it?
How valuable is it for me andalso the big tech companies
Google they know I log in todayon my laptop.
They have all your data anywayyou know.
So all the big players, theyknow what you're doing.
I mean, apple knows that I usemy phone 24 hours a day,
(20:51):
whatever that is, so then theyhave all your data anyway.
And um there this privacyconcern.
Also, the wearables are seensometimes in a wrong manner.
That is, this is like the bigbrother.
For example, if you have awearable in a corporate sense,
they think they might betracking the employees.
(21:13):
No, they're actually trying toget the employees to be a bit
more active and more lessstressed.
More productivity, betterperformance, all these things.
The corporates are interested.
But also wearables are seeingas the big brother.
Oh, now we have a wearable, weknow what they are doing, what
time they go to bed.
Nobody's gonna check rent, whattime you're going to bed, but
(21:34):
you have a wearable.
You're sharing the data.
People are concerned aboutthese things.
Oh, they know my behavior.
They know I'm gonna be out tillone o'clock in the morning
drinking.
They know what time I go home.
So all these, sometimes allthese things are all speculative
.
They're not even true, but it'slike this big brother world.
But all of a sudden you justpost on instagram at 12 o'clock
(21:55):
at night.
People know you are out anywayif they know.
But you are concerned aboutsharing your wearable data?
Yeah, so it doesn't make anysense.
But it's all these things.
Also one thing that wearablesare great but they're not
perfect, as you know.
Yes, also, wearables are veryprone to human errors.
(22:18):
We forget to charge them.
We lose our wearable all ohmany times.
I left my wearable on the topof the fridge, I forgot to
charge.
Thank god, I'm very proactive.
I go to the gym.
Next day I charge again, I getgoing.
But breaking the behavior forum for um a beginner user might
be a big thing.
Not everybody is motivated likeall the time and to use the
(22:43):
wearable, so it's a piece ofcertainly human behavior to do
around it.
Before Fitbit was sold toGoogle, they actually bought a
coaching company because it's abig gap between it's around the
behavior, as I mentioned.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
I like what you're saying.
It's not just the tech, it'snot the're saying, it's not just
the text, not the metrics, notjust the numbers, it's the
change in behavior, uh, or orthem being able to.
You know, as you say, if you,if you can't measure it, you
can't manage it right.
So the fibbit or rhetoric is aform of measurement, but it
should allow you to begin tomanage your health, if that is
(23:21):
your goal.
You want to manage it betterand then share that information
to someone else.
Understanding the differencebetween private and public
information is very important.
Like you know, it's it's athing, but we are in a digital
society, we're in a data-centricworld right now.
So I love what you're doing andwhat you're talking about is so
(23:43):
important.
As we talk about the change inhealthcare delivery, healthcare
policy.
Who owns the data?
Who doesn't own the data?
As I talked about earlier, yourwearable could be your own
private EHR, but there's somechanges going on, like, right
now, you might not be able andI've heard this going on and
(24:05):
let's say, you're going to getcar insurance.
Well, they're not going to sellyou car insurance if you don't
get this type of monitoring thatgoes along with it.
So we can see your behavior, tosee if you're low risk, high
risk, some of that.
You could say, yeah, therecould be some big brother to
that, you know, or it could be abenefit as well.
(24:25):
Hey, you know, I didn't knowthat was a risky behavior or
whatnot, and maybe it makes achange.
It could be the same thing likehey, you know what?
I'm not going to insure healthinsurance to Jao because he's
drinking and smoking all thetime and you know he's driving
up the healthcare costs and I'mgoing to either give him a super
high premium or I'm not goingto get any insurance at all, or
(24:48):
he stopped drinking and smokingand his numbers are coming down
and because his numbers arecoming down, I'm going to give
him a lower premium now.
So there's always benefits, butit's getting used to that newer
behavior.
What do you think?
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Yeah, there's always benefits, but it's getting used
to that newer behavior.
What do you think?
Yeah, grant, you touched onvery important things about like
the.
You know, I'm actuallysurprised.
I'm going to reveal somethingwith you.
I want to talk more aboutwearables, but I'm actually
surprised that in US, of course,there is a big issue around
health care the cost, theinjustice, the social element.
(25:25):
There are different and youknow, unfortunately, I was in
New York on 4th of December whenthey murdered the CEO of United
Health.
Oh, yeah, yeah, I'm not infavor of the healthcare system,
but I could never defend someonethat murdered a father because
I'm pissed off.
(25:45):
Okay, great, let's put thataside.
But that tells you that there'ssomething fundamentally wrong
with the system For someone togo to that extreme.
It's something wrong with thesystem, the cost, the injustice.
It's something wrong with thesystem, the cost, the injustice.
If you have health insuranceand they don't still want to pay
(26:07):
, there is a problem with that.
There is certainly, but anyway,but look, wearables could play
and will play a very importantrole in that, because my vision
is that eventually don't knowthis is gonna take, but this is
my vision for you, for the you,particularly for the us health
(26:28):
system and I have a big idea.
I think one day I will dosomething.
I would like to see the powershift and the power go to the
hand of the consumer.
I'm the consumer, I have mydata.
I go to the insurer.
I say, look, I exercise fivetimes a week.
(26:51):
Grant only exercises once aweek.
Why shall I pay?
And Grant smokes?
I don't smoke, I exercise five.
Why shall I pay the samepremium as Grant?
So my vision is that wearableseventually will democratize a
(27:12):
side of healthcare that is upfor disruption.
You know the cost, the way it'sdelivered, delivered.
The power shift because now weare even in here in uk and
around the world, we are betweenbrackets owned by the
professionals.
I have a, I have a problem.
(27:34):
I go to the professional.
For a long time I've beenthinking there's nothing wrong
with the clinicians.
I need the doctor.
I'm not a doctor.
If I have a problem, I needhelp.
But the power needs to change inhealthcare as a whole.
The clinician is there toassist you Great, the medical
(27:55):
staff are great.
But in terms of the wayhealthcare is structured is
wrong.
But in terms of the way healthcare is structured is wrong.
So I want to see the patient,the person, the individual, one
take more responsibility for thehealth.
Yeah, having more self-care,more good behavior.
(28:18):
Wearables can play a part inthere because they can assist
you.
They can help you, they cangive you some information.
They say I'm sleeping well 7hours a night, I'm healthy, I
lost weight, all these things,the behavior.
But then I want, I want that tobe a benefit in kind.
Perhaps the health insurerswill not like me in the future
(28:44):
because they have to get morehealthy patients and give them a
reduction in profit and inpremium, so they will not like
this power change, but I thinkit's very necessary one to
educate people, not just aroundwearables but around health as a
(29:04):
whole and health is a big thing.
Health is a big thing, fromnutrition to performance, to
sleep.
Now is a big trend longevityand I'll reveal another secret
for you.
I'm writing a book on wearablesfor longevity Nice.
So I see a big trend inlongevity.
(29:25):
Everybody wants to live longerso you can play with your
grandchildren.
You want to be healthy.
It's not just about livinglonger, it's about living longer
healthy and happier.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
That's it no point healthier.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Healthier is no point living till 90 and then you are
sick for 20 years.
No, if the point is beinghealthier and longer.
So but wrapping up this littleitem about my vision for the
wearables I want people to oneself-care more, getting the
benefit from the wellness, theinformation, the data and
(30:01):
everything, but also challengethe system.
I have my data.
You mentioned your electronichealth record.
I have my electronic healthrecord.
I didn't have any illness forthe last five years.
I'm really healthy.
I want a discount on my premium.
I don't want to pay that much.
Perhaps the health insurancewill not like that grant.
(30:23):
But let's use wearables forself-care to help us to be
healthier, but to pay less.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Yeah, all the way around.
It should help everyone becauseyou have less sick people.
I know in the US right now,we're running into this problem.
We have older population, wehave the oldest population that
we've ever had.
Well, what is that going tomean?
That means you're going to havea lot of probably unhealthy
people, uh, for a while.
So you're going to have tomonitor them somehow, uh, in
(30:57):
order to understand, kind ofwhere they're at in the
different life cycle and theirdaily experience and what that
looks like.
But it has to be, you know,ethical monitoring things of
that.
I think that's what people aretalking about the ethics,
because some people can use thisinformation wrongly, some
people can use it right andthere's some, you know, home
(31:19):
monitoring that's happening evennow because it's just the right
thing to do.
I want to talk to you aboutDigital Salutum.
That's your company.
You have a bold mission andthat is to drive transformation
into healthcare.
If you could, is there any oneproject or success story from
(31:40):
the work that you already aredoing that you want to let us
know about?
That really demonstrates what'spossible when innovation and
strategy kind of come together.
You want to talk about that.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Sure Grant.
I partner with many greatcompanies all sizes big, small
startups big tech brands.
All sizes big, small startups,big tech brands.
In the past I've done a lot ofpartnerships with the big
technology companies Salesforce,vmware.
I had Fujitsu.
(32:12):
I had many, many, manywell-known tech brands.
My mission is more about makinghealthcare uncomplicated.
I would like to make healthcarecomplicated, free for all, but
I'm not that powerful.
I'm just one man.
(32:34):
But they have this big vision.
But with digital salute, mypartner in in in in the past
with many tech brands.
Even recently, I partnered withmetronic around wearables,
around wearables.
Metronic are doing a big thingwith with wearables for the
hospitals, for the patients,serve people and now the time is
right for wearables.
But I would say one thing thatwe've done right with Digital
(32:59):
Solutum.
We partner with companies andup till now there was a lot of
social media thought leadership.
I had the YouTube channel.
I interviewed 150 leaders inhealthcare from around the world
.
I had the big names in US JohnNost, daniel Kraft, big thinkers
(33:19):
in healthcare, people thatreally drive change, eric Tupou
the big names in US.
I'm an open innovator.
I want to create like you.
I want to create like you, gooddiscussion, a good disruption,
(33:41):
a good challenge, and makehealthcare better for all and,
eventually, healthcare to bedemocratized, make people
healthier.
And you know, coming back veryquickly with wearables, your
health secretary, robert FKennedy Jr, recently mentioned
wearables.
His vision would be give everyNorth American a wearable, make
them healthier and let them takeresponsibility for their health
(34:04):
.
I think we are going through abig, at least a big shift in
thinking.
You know people already.
Everybody knows there is anissue in healthcare.
Everybody knows that we couldbe healthier.
Everybody knows we could bedoing something else.
Everybody knows that we shouldbe doing more.
(34:26):
And you are having these greatconversations.
Uh, grant, you are doing yourpart.
I believe I'm also doing my part, trying to instigate the
conversation with other leaderssuch as yourself, but we have a
long way to go.
Do you know?
Healthcare is so complex that Ialways think I'm in the same
(34:47):
place all the time.
For the last 20 years, I think,well, we are in the same place.
I go to an event.
People ask about data.
When they think about data, Ihave this reaction, grant oh no,
not again, you know, but we areprogressing, grant.
We are progressing.
(35:07):
We are starting to break intothe systems to share the data,
to open sources to.
We are, we are moving, buthealthcare is so, is so complex
that sometimes it feels like butnothing happened in the last 10
years, which is not true, youknow.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
I think what you just said is so important to
understand.
Sometimes it's subtle changesthat take place and you have to
talk to someone else that maybehad a different experience, and
then you start to realize, oh,that is different now, it used
to be this way or that way.
There's still a lot of room forgrowth.
There's another thing I want toask you as we get to the end of
(35:48):
our podcast.
Now, you yourself and I'm intopersonal branding and I love it
because it's a great way to getyour voice out.
It's a platform in which youcan then really project your
thought leadership where you are, I call in your zone of genius
of what you're doing.
It's so important.
(36:08):
Now you've built thisincredible global network.
In fact, you call yourself theglobal connector of titans,
which is very awesome.
Global connector of titans.
I want to ask you whatpractical advice would you give
professionals who want to builda network that truly creates
(36:29):
these types of opportunities?
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Brilliant Grant.
That kind of little line therestarted because I had this idea.
I'm a networker, as you know.
I could be doing many thingsnetworking, branding but I want
to stay still in Elf.
I want to stay in Elfcat a bitlonger because I have this big
idea to bring to the world.
(36:53):
But, um, I, I started havingthis idea right, I'm gonna start
having um a global elf techdinners.
Invite four, five, six elf techdinners.
That's why I went to new yorkon the fourth of july, um fourth
of um june, december, decemberwhen December, when the CEO met
(37:14):
the healthcare.
I've done a dinner for somehealth tech leaders Intimate.
I've done two in Miami, one inLisbon, one in London.
I've done one in New York.
I've done six.
I'm planning maybe perhaps onein Dublin and some more other
locations.
But I want people to talk toeach other and I want to bring
(37:35):
people together.
I like the events, but theevents are starting to get a bit
.
They charge a lot of money andI hear my peers saying well, I
went there, I met 30 people, butonly two or three people were
interested and I can bring thatto a dinner, no costs attached.
I don't charge you anything, Ijust bring good people together.
(37:56):
That's how the global titanscame along.
But this is the practicaladvice, coming back to your
question, that I would give.
If you are in healthcare or inautomobile, car insurance,
whatever that is and you want tobuild a personal brand, this is
how I've done it.
Anyway, I share from my ownexperience.
I started on LinkedIn 15 yearsago.
(38:16):
The first two, three years Iwas not very active because I
was doing all the still thesporty stuff personal traveling
and then I had an experiencewith a digital health startup.
I started doing a startup withanother guy in London and I
started hacking on LinkedIn.
One, you got to be consistent.
Two, you need to identify whoare the players in your industry
(38:40):
.
Oh, health technology there isgrant mccall is.
Your book is, yeah, identifythe big guys by basically, who
are the leaders in your industry?
Then and Grant, I'm sharing thisfor personal advice, yes, from
personal experience Then youstart interacting with them.
(39:01):
You comment on their posts,you're getting yourself known.
You are nobody Like.
Everybody else starts from zerofollowers, from nothing.
All of a sudden, oh, this guycomment on my post, you're
getting acknowledged one day.
And then, all of a sudden,perhaps I talk to grant, grant,
(39:23):
you grant, open the door andthen I can tell other leaders
I'm also talking to Grant, sothat it becomes much easier to
reach other people.
And then after that, everything, that's how I build my podcast.
I managed to get one or two bignames, yeah, by communicating
(39:45):
with them on LinkedIn, onLinkedIn, and then all of a
sudden I tell them actually Ialready interviewed Grant.
Why don't I interview you?
Because then it becomes easier,because all the big guys even
though this is non-charging butall the big guys, they don't
want to be left behind.
Yeah, they want to keep on top.
(40:05):
Yeah, but anyway, it's aboutdoing things that other people
are not willing to do.
I know I'm going to getrejected, but I'm going to reach
out to Grant.
I know Grant is a busy man, butI'm going to reach out to Grant
.
Grant, would you be interestedin doing an interview with me?
The worst case scenario is Inever hear from you.
(40:30):
The good case scenario is I'vegot an interview with Grant
McCown and after that I'm goingto become known.
I'm going to open the door togo to other leaders and say
Grant, I worked with Grant lastweek and that's basically in
(40:53):
simple terms of you built thecredibility people.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Now you go from an unknown to a known and like well
, if, if this person talking, Imean must be worth talking to,
and then and then you have tobring.
Obviously you still have tobring the value.
You have to bring the value ofwho you are, what you you bring
to the table and showcase yourexpertise and that just
solidifies the deal.
More or less Matter of fact.
(41:18):
I got to wrap up here, but Igot to ask you this, joe,
because I've been asking all myguests this and I always ask
this in the moment that they'vehad this interview.
You've been on a lot ofpodcasts.
You have your own own podcastnow.
You've had the experience ofbeing with me on the follow
brand podcast.
How did you feel about yourexperience?
Speaker 1 (41:40):
it was brilliant.
It was very personal.
Uh, you enabled me to come outwith the goods, to really focus
on, on myself from the insideout.
You know I, if you see, I,didn't come here to sell my
image or sell my services orsell my.
I could be myself.
I had a great experience withyou and I'm very happy that you
(42:03):
invite me and I felt, if I'mhonest, I'm not gonna give you
this feedback just to make youhappy, but I felt like it was a
very personal conversation andit was kind of special because I
felt good energy being myselfwith you.
So that is really, really good.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
I love it.
I love it.
That's why I like doing mypodcast, because we can be
authentic.
Authenticity is big with me andyou, man, I'm telling you the
information we just shared thepros and the cons of wearables
and sharing data and information.
All of that came out and theseare things that we need to have
(42:44):
general conversations about,because most people, they share
common ideas and you're likeokay, I hear what Grant and Joe
are talking about.
That's important.
We should just take this a stepfurther.
So it's not just thecorporations that are making
decisions for us.
It's not just governments thatare making decisions for us.
We, the people, are makingdecisions for ourselves and
(43:06):
making decisions that are theright choice for us.
I love this and I do want theaudience to know how to contact
you, how to get involved withyou, because you're doing such
great things.
And I tell you, if you're veryinterested in wearable
technology, healthcaretechnology and, again, personal
branding, I think João Boca isthe guy you need to talk to.
So tell us how to contact you.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
Yeah, sure, they can find me on LinkedIn, joão Boas.
Also, I have the companywebsite, digital Salutem,
wwwdigitalsalutemcom, or mypersonal number, which I'm going
to disclose I don't know ifthis is a good idea Plus
44-773-1983-936, or joao João atdigital salute themcom.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
That is so wonderful and again I want to thank you
for being on the follow brandpodcast.
I want to encourage your entireaudience to see all the
episodes and follow the brand.
There's over two to 300episodes there.
It's a digital community.
It is a library of knowledgeand information from people like
yourself who are sharingexpertise and knowledge that can
(44:17):
help people get to that nextstep.
You can do so at 5 Star BDM.
That is the number 5.
That is Star S-T-R BDM.
That's B for brand, b fordevelopment, infomasterscom.
I want to thank you again forbeing on the show.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
Thank you, grant, nice to be with you.
Popular Podcasts
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com