Trust is breaking on LinkedIn—and not just because the algorithm got stricter. Grant McGaugh sits down with Richard Vanderblom, the global authority on social selling and LinkedIn strategy, to unpack how AI-driven behaviors, automated outreach, and shifting relevance signals are reshaping what works and what backfires. If you’ve watched your reach drop or felt your DMs fill with spam, this conversation maps a smarter path forward.
We dig into the metrics that actually matter—qualified DMs, right-fit invites, and conversions on low-commitment offers—and why “views” are a value metric when treated as a bridge to action. Richard explains LinkedIn’s emerging “interest clusters,” how second and third-degree engagement now carries more weight, and why chasing viral content outside your niche sabotages your credibility. The guidance is clear: stay in your lane, focus 80% of your posts on your core expertise, and let relevance compound.
Leaders get a practical content playbook that outperforms company pages: personal storytelling that shares real lessons, point-of-view thought leadership that leads, co-created posts with peers to unlock new networks, and video or live formats to build instant trust. We also test LinkedIn’s Boost feature—what it’s good for, where it falls short—and talk about responsible AI use that amplifies your voice without eroding authenticity. From credibility scoring to AI-pattern detection, the platform is rewarding the human layer more than ever.
If you want to position your executive brand, grow a trusted network, and convert attention into meaningful outcomes, this episode gives you the strategy and the why behind it. Listen, take notes, and then refine your lane. Subscribe, share with a colleague who needs a better LinkedIn plan, and leave a review with your top takeaway so we can keep raising the signal together.
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Follow The Brand! We hope you enjoyed learning about the latest trends and strategies in Personal Branding, Business and Career Development, Financial Empowerment, Technology Innovation, and Executive Presence. To keep up with the latest insights and updates, visit 5starbdm.com
.
And don’t miss Grant McGaugh’s new book, First Light — a powerful guide to igniting your purpose and building a BRAVE brand that stands out in a changing world. - https://5starbdm.com/brave-masterclass/
See you next time on Follow The Brand!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:02):
Welcome everybody to the PowerBram Podcast.
This is where we amplify thevoices shaping the future of
leadership, technology, andhuman influence.
I am your host, Grant McGall,and today we are joined by
someone whose work hastransformed the way millions of
(00:22):
professionals show up onLinkedIn and in the digital
world.
My guest is the Global Authorityon Social Selling, Digital
Trust, and LinkedIn Strategy, aman whose annual algorithm
insights report has beendownloaded over six million
times.
He's a trainer of over 300,000professionals and a keynote
(00:47):
speaker trusted by organizationsacross five continents.
And he's also the founder ofJust Connecting Hub, the
visionary behind the tribecommunity, and one of the most
influential voices shaping howwe understand trust and
visibility online.
So please welcome RichardVanderblom to the Follow Brand
(01:10):
Podcast.
SPEAKER_00 (01:11):
Wow, Grant.
First of all, thanks for havingme.
And that was uh an epicintroduction.
I mean, I've had many, but thiswas really epic, and it also
made me think that indeed I havebeen quite busy over the past
years, especially on LinkedIn.
Yeah, so amazing numbers.
And again, thank you for havingme.
Looking forward to thisconversation.
SPEAKER_01 (01:30):
Absolutely.
And we gotta dive right in.
I mean, you just dropped the2025 algorithm insights report.
People wait every year to likeread these things.
I mean, your latest uh blog thatI saw is your post.
You're talking about the the arcof LinkedIn over time in seven
worlds that you kind of like,you know, show that they're
(01:52):
golden age and kind of wherethey're at now.
And you've seen how this haschanged the way thousands of
professionals think aboutvisibility on LinkedIn.
Here's my first question for youWhat's the biggest shift in
trust signals this year thatmost people still don't fully
understand?
SPEAKER_00 (02:13):
Well, I think that's directly one of the maybe key
questions and also keychallenges of LinkedIn at the
moment.
I think um, you know, wheneverI'm on stage, Grant, I always
have one particular slide I liketo use, and it's a question for
the audience where I say, like,um, what's the key word in all
(02:35):
successful human interactions?
Okay, not necessarily inbusiness, I mean, even in your
private relationships, what'sthe key word?
And obviously, that keyword istrust, because without trust,
you don't sell your products,you don't find your next job,
and for sure you will never findyour next partner in life.
Because if there's no trust,there's no commitment.
And you just mentioned my postfrom today where I explained the
(02:58):
seven errors.
And I personally I think that ifI look back to like say eight,
nine, maybe ten years ago onLinkedIn, trust was key.
I mean, there was no AI, uh, thealgorithm was not as complex as
now, meaning simply if LinkedIntold you you have 10,000 views,
(03:19):
it actually meant that 10,000people has had seen your
content, not bots, you know, noAI tools, people.
And I think that we're on acrossroad.
Uh, it's another article I wrotein my newsletter last week
saying LinkedIn is on crossroadsbecause I've seen in the last
(03:39):
months a few, for me, valuablecreators leave the platform or
at least become less active onthe platform because of a few
things that are happening.
You know, the algorithm is beingtweaked by LinkedIn in a way
we've never seen before, leadingto less results, less
visibility, people gettingfrustrated.
But that's not the main reason.
(04:00):
The main reason why they areleaving is that they are feeling
that their words are going intothe void because of all the AI
tools, AI commenting tools, AIreading tools.
So, and I think that's a reallyimportant signal that LinkedIn
should really take into accountin a very serious way.
(04:22):
Because if we lose trust in theplatform, if I send you a
message on LinkedIn and I losetrust that you personally will
read it, you personally willrespond to it, then I think it's
the end of the platform as weknow it today.
People will literally turn away.
I mean, nobody is there to speakor listen to robots or to get
(04:46):
automated messages where yousimply know, instantly feel this
is not coming from the person Iknew.
SPEAKER_01 (04:52):
What you said there, and I want the audience to
really lean in on this.
This is very, very important.
I call it in a word, responsibleuse of AI.
I've been in informationtechnology 25, 30 plus years.
I understand about technologyadoption, and there's different
levels to this.
Some people adopt it early, somepeople really laggers on
(05:15):
adoption, and it takes time toreally tweak and get to that
sweet spot on the use ofdifferent tool sets.
I think we're still in thatinfancy of AI, like, hey, it's
cool.
I'm trying out, I'm doing thisand doing that, and
understanding thathuman-to-human interaction is
still king.
It really is.
People like talking to otherhuman beings, and if you think
(05:38):
you're talking to a bot,remember a bot is not a
conscious thing, it's a stringof mathematical principles.
So all of a sudden, to yourpoint, you feel like you're
talking to the void.
I think that's a problem that weneed to address, right?
SPEAKER_00 (05:52):
Yeah, I I fully agree.
Also, we need to be aware thatif we talk about the LinkedIn
user, it's non-existing.
There is no LinkedIn user, thereare different groups with
different behavior that have adifferent influence on our
audience in general.
To give you an example, thereare less than 0.1% of LinkedIn
(06:19):
members that are using LinkedInand AI and automation tools in
such a way that they impactalmost 30% of all conversations
and post on LinkedIn.
So imagine this 0.1% is soactive.
Call them the front runners,early adopters or or or of AI,
(06:39):
whatever you like to call them,but they're so active in testing
this new, often automatedoutreach, automated messages, AI
posting.
But they're so influentialbecause they are so active that
they impact 30% of allconversations and posts on
LinkedIn, which means the bigaudience, which you just
(07:01):
mentioned, which are still inthe early stage of, hey,
actually, that's pretty cool.
You know, ChatGPT can reallyhelp me to become a better
writer or can create a betterhook.
They don't have, we don't givethem the time to adopt and to
feel safe with the technologybecause the frontrunners are
already targeting them with allkind of, yeah, I'm just gonna
(07:23):
call it like it is, sleazytactics, automated tactics,
eroding the trust that ouraudience has on LinkedIn.
I recently spoke to a CEO of avery big software company when
we discussed our LinkedInpartnership.
And one of the things he said,Richard, I know this is
important for a sales team, butI myself have stopped checking
(07:43):
LinkedIn on a daily basis.
I do it once a week, and thefirst thing I need to do is
delete 40 emails fromsalespeople who I've never
spoken to, who lack relevance,they haven't built any trust,
and they're trying to pitch mesomething.
And that's exactly the reasonwhy I don't check LinkedIn daily
anymore because it it's it'ssimply not fun.
(08:05):
It it doesn't add value.
And that's you know, uh a placewhere we all should not want to
go with this still veryimportant and potential,
potentially very successfulnetwork.
SPEAKER_01 (08:19):
What you're saying is so important.
That's where responsibility hasto come in and governance has to
come in.
LinkedIn has to look at it like,hey, are we diluting the
platform?
Are we are we not are we takenaway for the the purpose of what
the platform was there?
It was for business people totruly network amongst
(08:39):
themselves, to showcase thoughtleadership, to actually bring
value to other people that areinterested in these topics,
these subjects, to learn more,to get more information.
But if we turn it into aautomated, bot-driven,
ad-centric, you know, uh uhplatform, people will turn away.
I know I do the same thing.
(09:00):
I turn on my LinkedIn, I'll getI see my DM, I get five or six
completely you know, uselesssales messages, no
understanding.
I don't understand that thatpart, then I I want to say this
directly to the people that aredoing this.
If you let's just say you're ata networking event, right, and
and you come up and I come up toRichard, right?
(09:22):
And Richard immediately startspitching me on his product and
service.
I don't know him from Adam.
What's gonna be my opinion ofhim?
Now he might have a great greatproduct and a great service, but
that is that is so out of linefor for a true conversation to
take place, to then get intimacyof trust, as you just stated,
(09:46):
and then begin to say, hey,opening the door, and like I do
want to know more about you.
And then then at that point, youcan then you've been invited to
give me your elevator pinch, andthen we can discuss like that.
Sounds interesting.
Let's take this to anotherlevel.
I think that's a misstep forsalespeople, it's a misstep.
And if you automate the wholeprocess, remember, you know, uh
(10:07):
algorithms are not they have nocontext, they're just as they do
with their program.
You're going to push people awayand not pull people in.
That's my opinion.
SPEAKER_00 (10:16):
Yeah, I I I agree.
Although it it's it's it'sfascinating, you know.
Sometimes I have I find myselfhaving too much time, and then I
take up the challenge and I'mgoing to actually respond to the
bad outreach.
So I get, you know, yeah, andI've got like like you, I get
many.
(10:36):
Like even this morning, I wascalled, hey Robert.
I mean, my name is Richard.
If you can't even get my nameright, I mean, where do you
start in building trust?
Anyway, so every now and then Irespond to them and I try to
challenge them to rethink theiroutreach approach.
Okay.
And I'm saying things like, Hey,you've sent me a message, I do
not know you, you haven'tmentioned anything about my
(10:58):
content.
And like you did in thebeginning of this conversation,
there is so much hooks you canfind by going to my profile.
I mean, I don't need acompliment, but show that you
have done your homework, knowwho I am.
You know, it's it's so easy toconnect with me on a human
level.
Anyway, so I respond, and theneight out of ten cases, I don't
(11:18):
hear anything, okay?
Because I'm just being a pain inthe ass.
Because, you know, normal peoplelike you, for example, they just
delete a conversation.
Like, I'm not going to respond.
So if they get a response andit's this, you know, crazy Dutch
guy saying, like, hey, youshould maybe rethink your
outreach strategy, I think theyfeel annoyed or they go, like,
nah, you know, delete.
(11:40):
Last week, no, I'm lying, twoweeks ago, I got a clearly
automated message from someone Ireally know, a Dutch guy, he's
an entrepreneur.
I value his entrepreneurship.
I mean, he's built aseven-figure company from
scratch, but he knows me.
I mean, we have had severalmeetings.
(12:01):
I visited his office like five,six years ago, and he sent me a
clearly automated message.
So I reached out to him and Isay, like, how come being
connected with our history thatwe know each other, we've
discussed business, that yousent me an automated message?
I mean, it's putting me off.
I feel like I'm targeted andthat you are not honoring the
(12:22):
relationship we already built,you know, and it it works
opposite.
I get a bad feeling about it.
Like, you see me just like anyregular contact you have on
LinkedIn.
And his response, you know, itwas bizarre.
He literally said, Richard, I'msorry to have annoyed you, but
I've sent out 3,000 messages inthe last week.
(12:46):
And we have landed 28 meetings.
Wow.
Okay.
And then I went like, okay,okay, cool.
So you have sent out 3,000messages to connections like me
with whom you already build arelationship.
You just say that yourconversion rate is below 1%.
(13:07):
Below 1%.
28 meetings, 3,000 messages.
You have 2,992 people who eitherhave not responded, deleted the
message, and some of them mighteven have deleted the
connection, or even worse, theyare never going to do business
with you again because you justlike like I felt, you just
(13:30):
pretended like they're a sittingduck to be sold something
instead of a valuablerelationship.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, he disagreed.
You know, he said, you know, Idon't think people will
disconnect with me or see medifferently, and for us it
works.
And then he mentioned obviouslytime.
He said, I simply don't have thetime to reach out to 3,000
people on a you know,tailor-made, hyper-personalized
(13:53):
way.
So, you know, then again I said,why would you reach out to
3,000?
Why not start with 30, buildrelationships?
And if you get a you know, aconversion rate of 10%, which is
you know, I often reach 20%, sothat means I only need to reach
out to 60, and I have the sameconversion than you with 3,000
automated messages.
Just to give you an example,that a lot of these people they
(14:16):
are well aware that what theyare doing brings a lot of
negativity.
Um, but they're just playing abig numbers game and they look
at their agenda and they go,like, hey, my tool just sent out
3,000 messages.
I didn't do scratch from it, andI got 28 meetings booked on my
calendar.
So who am I to discuss with themthat they should
(14:36):
hyperpersonalize every uh uh uhmessage, follow up uh manually.
I mean, we're living in adifferent in a different era
where time is a most preciousasset, and a lot of the
salespeople they have soridiculously high KPIs that they
just are under so much pressurethat the only thing they can do
is use LinkedIn as a spammachine.
(14:58):
So I get where they're comingfrom.
The only thing is you do so muchdamage to your reputation and
trust that in the long endyou're losing the game.
That's I'm 100% sure about that.
SPEAKER_01 (15:12):
And let's just do a real case study on that, what
you just said.
How did I, Grant McGall, get intouch with you, Richard
Vanderball?
How did that happen?
I, to your point, I I I wasfollowing you on LinkedIn, I saw
the information that you had putout, I began to engage with your
post, you then began to engagewith my replies.
(15:35):
There was some some trust andauthenticity taking place.
We then took it to the DM.
Like, hey, I would be interestedin talking, potentially of
coming to the North America andSt.
Croix to talk about yourLinkedIn expertise, how we can
then get to a higher level.
Then we took it to an email uhlevel, we had conversations, and
now here we are now.
(15:56):
This is our third, fourthinteraction.
We kind of know each other.
If I had sent you a bunch ofspam uh messages, I don't think
we'd be having this conversationright now.
SPEAKER_00 (16:08):
No, no, no, and it's it's a perfect example.
Uh, and and the funny thing is,I received, and I'm not being
arrogant here, it's just like Ireceived so many comments, I
received so many DMs.
So, but I still remember thefirst comment you left on my
post because it was authentic,it was about me, uh, it was a
(16:28):
compliment on my content with aninvitation to discuss further in
a one-on-one call, and it wasdone in such again a
hyper-personalized way that itinstantly built trust.
And I instantly got triggered torespond, which I did.
So I remember we had a fewconversations on LinkedIn, then
took it to email, and um, yeah,like you said, we we are now in
(16:49):
our third or fourthconversation.
The thing is that you can ittakes you several moments, it
takes you several messages,several meetings to build trust
at a level that people willactually start maybe not even
buying, but becoming interestingto buy from you or to or to you
(17:13):
know request some services, butyou can lose that instantly with
one bad message in one singlesecond.
Absolutely, and that's alsosomething that's very important.
Like everything you do nowadayson LinkedIn, we discussed the
algorithm, like every commentyou make that can be seen by
your audience, your peers, yourfuture clients, every post you
make, everything you put outthere, it it can harm your
(17:42):
credibility so much faster thanit will build, because building
trust is a is you know it's uh along game in the end.
Uh, it's important to do, but ittakes several like meetings,
encounters, or whatever youknow, conversations.
So that's also something Ialways say to the people you
know we coach like don't go forthe quick win.
It's non-existing on LinkedIn.
(18:03):
You might have a lucky shot, butin the end, especially if you're
in you know B2B sales or youknow um your average every every
B2B salesperson that has anaverage deal size, let's say
above 50,000 grand or$50,000,you you don't get those deals
(18:25):
instantly on LinkedIn.
I mean, you can have a luckyshot, but it's always you need
to be um you need to make aneffort to build a relation, to
be there, to be present for alonger time until you get your
first one-on-one meeting.
And that's something a lot ofpeople forget.
They still see LinkedIn as thisB2B sales spam machine where you
can send out a lot of messagesand you know, a few lucky shots,
(18:47):
fill your agenda, and hope youyou you close the deal.
It's it's not working like that.
It never did, by the way.
The only thing is, previously wenever had the tools to scale
that fast.
We didn't had automation, wedidn't had AI.
And now, with those tools, wethink that we can bypause all
these elements and ingredientsfor trust.
It's not true.
SPEAKER_01 (19:08):
Now you're getting into a lane I think a lot of
people want to hear about, andthat's these vanity metrics,
like ears, comments, uh, justbecause you're like, wow, I've
got this enormous reach, I'vegot all these followers, I've
got all these connections, andthey feel because you're bigger
in in certain aspects of vanitymetrics, but are you actually
(19:30):
effective in the goal thatyou've set out?
Business development, careerdevelopment.
Is that actually happening?
What's the true measurement?
And I'm asking you thisquestion: what is the true
measurement of success do youfeel with social selling on
LinkedIn?
SPEAKER_00 (19:47):
Yeah, that's a that that's a very interesting
question.
Um, because a lot of people talkabout vanity metrics and they
mention likes, comments, views,impressions of vanity metrics.
I partly agree because for me,visibility, which is measured in
(20:09):
impressions of views, is a valuemetric, it's not even a vanity
metric.
Why?
Because without views, there isno engagement, without
engagement, there's noconversation, without
conversation, there's noconversion.
It all starts with becomingvisible.
So if we would say right fromthe start, I'm posting on India,
(20:29):
but I don't care if I get 50,000views or 500 views, that's
that's BS.
That's simply not true.
Because you will not get thesame visibility amongst your
potential clients if you arelike having limited views.
The thing is, I don't think thatyou should had any you should
(20:50):
have any KPIs on those things.
No KPIs on how many averageviews do I want to have, how
many average likes, because inthe end, we're talking about
conversion.
So, yes, fuse is important, soyou should have an eye on how
many views are my post getting.
Can I improve that number?
But the real metrics, the realKPIs for me are, for example,
(21:15):
incoming direct messages fromyour target audience based on
your post, incoming invites fromyour target audience.
A lot of people who we workwith, a lot of leaders who I
work with, they find that aftertweaking their profile, their
content strategy, even theirengagement strategy, they are
(21:36):
getting invited by much morepeople that they notice are
directly relevant for theirbusiness, peers, influencers,
potential clients, people fromthe industry.
Because the more relevant youare, obviously, the more pool
you will have to the rightpeople.
So incoming direct messages,incoming invrites from your
target audience, you can measureconversion if you work with
(21:58):
things what we call like um lowcommitment offers on your
profile.
So if you have, for example, anewsletter where people can sign
up, if you have uh, I don'tknow, some people have like a
free consultancy call of 15minutes.
If the right people are makingare signing up for your
newsletter, if the right peopleare booking these calls, it
means that you're attracting theattention from the right
(22:23):
audience.
And those are the real metrics.
Marketing also wants to you knowmeasure how much traffic do we
get on a website coming fromLinkedIn.
For me, and this is where I haveuh a lot of uh discussions,
sometimes even uh verbal fightswith the marketing department,
because it's old school thinkingthat you want to drive people
(22:47):
away from the place where theyfeel safe, where they want to
be, their LinkedIn network, toyour website where they know
they're going to be targeted,they know you're going to
position yourself, that you wantto sell them something.
So, why not have thatconversation and why not build
that trust first on LinkedInbefore directing them to your
website?
Make them ready to buy orconvert before they go to your
(23:09):
website.
Anyway, back to the metrics.
So, no to likes, um, comments,reposts, it's all nice, but yes
to incoming invites, incomingdirect messages, conversion on
low commitment offers that youcan see are coming directly from
LinkedIn.
Those are the most importantmetrics.
SPEAKER_01 (23:28):
I like that.
I like, and I just saw thishappen for me personally.
Uh let's see, every time when Ido a LinkedIn live, I'm on a
live uh podcast or webinar.
I get a parry of people thenwanting to connect with me or
send me messages, and I knowthat came directly from that
content, so there's directcorrelation there to what is
(23:52):
happening that, and then youknow that hey, they they must
have really liked that.
There was meaningful engagement,and that from there, now you've
got trust, like ability, right?
You know, like and trust isvery, very good.
Uh, and and they see one thing Ilove about that is that you're
live, they know you're not abot, right?
So there's certain things withinthe LinkedIn platform that still
(24:15):
are very relevant.
LinkedIn Live is a great onebecause they see, like, hey,
it's very difficult to simulateyou know, an AI avatar for you
know 30 minutes talking to otherpeople about uh sensitive uh
information.
This is very, very in important.
SPEAKER_00 (24:32):
That's that's in general, in general, why video
content, so uh LinkedIn Live isalso video, but video content
performs much better when itcomes to trust building and in
the end conversion than writtencontent.
I mean, you can write yourposts, you can have the amazing
document posts, infographics,share everything.
But if people see you, hear you,it builds instant trust, at
(24:55):
least if you say the rightthings, obviously.
But video is should be a veryimportant pillar in your content
strategy, especially forleaders, special.
SPEAKER_01 (25:02):
And you you originally highlighted the
importance of second and thirddegree engagement.
My question is, why do you thinkstrangers to your platform who
you are now carry morealgorithmic weight than our
inner circle?
And how should executives adjusttheir strategy based on this
information?
SPEAKER_00 (25:24):
I think the it's obviously it's obviously a tweak
that LinkedIn made in the intheir algorithm.
Um I think it has something todo with if people who haven't
heard of you before your lastpost are not only willing to
read your post but are alsowilling to leave a like, a
(25:46):
comment, or a repost.
It means that somebody with whomyou didn't have any trust is now
drawn to your post in a way thatit adds relevance, it's value
for them.
And a lot of people on LinkedIn,they have what I call their
inner engagement circle.
I myself have it.
Every every time I always postin the morning, every time I
(26:08):
post, I can give you on a paperthe 30 names that are amongst
the first 50 people to comment.
I know that, you know, those aremy ambassadors, I really love
what they are doing for mybrand.
I mean, they they elevate my myvisibility as well.
But LinkedIn knows that theyknow that each one of us has an
inner circle, and maybe itdoesn't even matter what I post,
(26:32):
they will simply like or commentbecause it comes from Richard.
But now, if somebody in theirnetwork who just seen my post
because of their engagement seesme for the first time, spends
time reading or watching my postand then engages, it means that
there must be something in thatpost that is so relevant that
adds value for that person thathe's willing to engage.
(26:55):
And that's why that engagementhas a higher impact on the
acceleration of views, thegrowth of impressions than your
inner circle.
And I don't know if you haveseen my latest post on a new
element in the LinkedInalgorithm, which is called 360
Brood, it comes from uh mate uhMeta.
(27:17):
And that explicitly says thatLinkedIn is working now for
individuals, it doesn't existfor company pages, with what
they call interest clusters,which means if your profile and
your content is aligned aroundyour main topic of expertise,
(27:39):
they can now position yourselfin an interest cluster.
Okay, so for example, if all myposts have a link with social
selling, if all my posts sharevaluable information for
salespeople on how to useLinkedIn in a better way, then
my interest cluster will besalespeople B2B, which means now
(28:00):
LinkedIn is going to show mypost to more people outside my
first degree, second and third,coming from the interest cluster
B2B sales.
So you get less reach, we allget less reach, but you get more
relevance reach because of yourinterest cluster.
Now, if I'm getting nervousabout my numbers, if I'm seeing
(28:22):
that my reach is going down, andI just see an infographic being
published on LinkedIn by someonein, let's say, uh, I don't know,
leadership, and it's about uhthe 10 leadership tips for good
leaders.
And I see that this post isgetting massive traction.
What a lot of people did in thelast year is they would
literally take that infographicbecause they know it goes viral,
(28:44):
publish it themselves and say,hey, I just found this great
infographic about 10 leadership.
And you get a you get it, yougot a huge amount of reach.
However, all the people thatengage with that post are
probably not your clientsbecause they're not salespeople
in my in my case.
Secondly, now you are confusingLinkedIn because they thought
(29:06):
you were all about socialselling in my case.
Now I'm sharing this leadershippost, and this is very important
for people to be successful in2026.
If you confuse LinkedIn and theycannot position yourself in an
interest cluster, you will seeless and less performance of
your content because LinkedIn isnot going to help you anymore.
So, one of the key uh strategiesfor 2026 should be stay in lane.
(29:32):
Okay, 80% of your posts shouldbe around your main topic of
expertise.
SPEAKER_01 (29:38):
This now, see that's golden nugget.
That was really good informationto understand and and know, stay
in your lane, know your area,expertise, thought, leadership.
Very, very important.
And we're starting to also seethis little blue button that's
going in at the top of your postnow that says B O O S T boost.
(29:59):
Yeah.
What do you think about boost?
Is it boosting within thattarget cluster?
Is it a money grab for LinkedIn?
Is it good, bad, or indifferent?
What do you think?
SPEAKER_00 (30:10):
Well, it was a long-awaited feature to come.
You know, LinkedIn is alwayslate to the party with
everything.
They were late with hashtags,they were late with LinkedIn
stories, and now they have theuh given us the opportunity to
boost our post.
First of all, a lot of peopleand a lot of LinkedIn
specialists think that LinkedInover the past 18 months have
(30:35):
deliberately reduced organicreach to now launch the boost
feature as a solution.
Okay, so they're taking awayreach that is for free and
they're giving it back to you ifyou pay.
Okay, so a lot of people say nowwe know why they are like uh you
know suppressing reach becausethey come with this feature
(30:56):
where I can pay and thenLinkedIn is going to help me to
get more views.
It might be true, it might betrue, it would be a wise idea in
terms of mechanisms and how itworks, but for me, it's simply
an evolution of the platform.
We had boost posts on yourcompany page.
We have a lot of people,self-entrepreneurs, solo
(31:17):
entrepreneurs that don't have acompany page, and they wanted
also to boost their voice onLinkedIn.
So, you know, LinkedIn just gaveus that opportunity.
Um, I have me, I have mixedfeelings.
I've tried it uh now two timeswith some posts.
The the fun thing is that youcan actually help LinkedIn with
the interest cluster, so you canactually tell them this is my
(31:40):
target audience, this is mypreferred region, uh, and this
is my budget, obviously.
And I saw a sharp increase inreach.
I mean, I went from I think itwas 18,000 organic to about
45,000 after boosting for Imean, I think it was 150 US
dollars.
Um, the thing is that I got twoand a half times more reach.
(32:05):
I only got 1.3 times moreengagement and conversion.
So it looks mainly aimed atincreasing visibility, but since
they push it towards people whohave never heard of you, you
don't get the same.
There we we're back on the wordtrust again, grant, yeah,
because now they're pushing itoutside your bubble, which is
(32:27):
good in terms of visibility, butpeople will never buy from you
or you know uh request aproposal or whatever if it's
their first post that they see.
And they also see that this postis boosted, by the way, so they
know they're being targeted.
So I've tried it twice.
It's fun to get more numbers, toget more visibility.
I'm not sure yet if this isgoing to be the answer for
(32:49):
people that are looking for moreconversions.
SPEAKER_01 (32:51):
That's important knowledge, important knowledge,
and I see that to your point,like um, when I use LinkedIn
Navigator and that you can thenpush uh push a message, a DM to
someone like even outside ofyour circle, and and the person
knows that it came to thatplatform.
When every time I see that, Iusually delete those.
I know it's just a sales uh uhcall, more or less, that
(33:15):
someone's just trying to uhpitch me on something or other.
Definitely, and it's just asignal.
I don't think this so that's whyyou want to be a number one
connection because you don't getthat kind of thing.
Now, you have said that LinkedInis no longer just a content
platform, it's an executivepositioning ecosystem.
(33:37):
I want to know from you whatdoes that mean for organizations
that want to elevate their brandand their leadership?
SPEAKER_00 (33:48):
Um so the good news is that I still see LinkedIn as
the number one platform forexecutives to show their
leadership and to positionthemselves as thought leaders,
but also to lead their companiesin getting more visibility on
(34:08):
LinkedIn.
I mean, we've seen, and it'sobvious, that companies where
board members sea level areabove average active on
LinkedIn, we see that also theemployees are doing more things
on LinkedIn, they're doing theright things, they're having a
very good vibe and they'regetting more results.
(34:28):
Basically, that's it.
So, what what what is veryimportant for leaders nowadays
is that they understand a bithow the ecosystem works, but
also how people um are lookingfor content, are um giving value
to content because a lot of themin the past are referring to the
(34:51):
marketing department saying,like, hey, we have this great
company page and they'reresponsible, and you know,
nobody gives anything about yourcompany page.
You know, I'm I'm looking for II'm preventing myself to swear
on your podcast grant, but um,nobody goes to your company
page, nobody's interested incorporate communication and
(35:11):
data.
Maybe I'm exaggerating, but I'mjust wanting them to make a
statement.
SPEAKER_01 (35:15):
You're right.
SPEAKER_00 (35:15):
But data says it too, exactly.
But if I can follow this thoughtleader, which could be the CEO
or the CEO or whoever is athought leader in the company, I
can follow this person.
This person is like creatingthis authentic uh uh LinkedIn
post, on average, they get 12times more engagement, eight
(35:38):
times more views, six times morefollowers than the company page.
Okay.
Now imagine that it's not onlythe CEO, but they have a second
layer of thought leaders in thecompany as well, having an
organic authentic contentstrategy.
So instead of one main channelthat nobody cares about, that
nobody wants to follow yourcompany page, now you have
(36:01):
seven, eight, maybe tenadditional channels by having
several thought leaders havingan authentic content strategy on
LinkedIn, engaging with theiraudience, growing their networks
with peers, people from theindustry, future clients,
current clients.
That's a huge, huge social valueyou have there.
(36:23):
It's huge in terms of visibilityand in terms of uh relevance.
SPEAKER_01 (36:28):
Basically, that what you said there is so important.
And in my new book, as you seebehind me over there, first
flight, I talk about risingabove the algorithms by building
a presence that's so rooted inyour vision, your values, and
your undeniable thoughtleadership.
(36:49):
I want to hear from you becausethese they're always tweaking
these algorithms, and you gottabecause I this is an allegory
book, right?
It's not just you know atextbook, it's a narrative.
But I talk about how youovercome uh these algorithmic
platforms to being authenticbecause you can't outspend
somebody.
You just talked about that.
(37:09):
You know, there's paid ads outthere, there's people that are
uh kind of gaming the system.
How can you maintain yourauthentic voice, your authentic
reputation?
You're trying to build yourpersonal brand that even the
algorithms can't suppress.
What would you say, in youropinion?
SPEAKER_00 (37:29):
I think the most important part um is to have a
diversity within your contentstrategy.
Um to make sure you have thetime to draft your content
yourself, so not to turn to AIwith one line and say, write me
a post on modern leadership andthen copy-paste it directly.
(37:51):
Especially with the release of360 Brew in the LinkedIn
algorithm, it detects AIpatterns.
Whenever AI patterns aredetected in comments or in
posts, they are suppressed inreach because they're less
authentic.
Okay, LinkedIn is also workingon what they call internally a
credibility score for eachmember.
(38:12):
The higher your credibilityscore, the higher your reach is
because the more authentic youare.
What I always advise to leadersis to stay away from playing
safe.
(38:32):
Because, and I do understandthat in some industries
companies have uh guidelines onwhat people can say or not say
on LinkedIn.
I know that, for example, a CEOof a financial institution, a
bank or insurance companycannot, or pharma company, for
(38:54):
example, cannot say the samethings as this really cool CEO
of this marketing PR company,you know.
So I do understand that, butstay away from content that
looks like it's written by amarketing department.
I'm talking about the whitepapers, the the the very um high
(39:14):
quality articles, but mix it,you can you can share them, but
mix it up with personalstorytelling.
And whenever I tell C-levelpeople personal storytelling,
they they you know they look atme like, oh no, he's asking me
to share what I had for dinnerlast night.
And I say, that's not what Imean with personal storytelling.
But hey, you have been 20, 25years in the business, you have
(39:36):
been a leader of this companyfor 10 years.
You must have had so manyterrific stories of how the
business evolved, your role,your learnings, your pitfalls.
If you share those, those are soauthentic.
Human stories are still the mostread posts on LinkedIn.
(39:56):
We all like to read stories, sothat's one thing.
Uh, a second pillar for leadersis taught leadership content.
Okay, lead me the way, show methe way, show me why I need to
follow you because you exactlytell me what is happening in our
industry, how should I respond?
Um, so it's it's it's sometimespeople refer to it as
(40:20):
educational content, but thatmight give away a certain
relationship that I'm theteacher and you need to learn
from me, but it's how tocontent, lead the way content.
Um, and then a very importantpillar is co-creation,
interaction.
Whenever we see leadersco-create content with other
leaders, um, and this could be,for example, an event, if they
(40:44):
go, if you speak on a on a stagelike you know, we're going to do
in Send Cron, the US VirginIslands.
If those people connect andcreate a joint post, talk about
their impressions together,maybe I quote you, or maybe I
quote the other speaker, itblows up because it's dynamic,
it's not just my opinion, it'sthe opinion of a lot of like uh
(41:06):
uh uh knowledgeable people.
Uh so co-creation is a veryimportant pillar for leaders.
Um, and then the last one isalso um we refer to it as um
industry-related content.
So now it's not about yourbusiness, it's not about your
(41:28):
company, but what is happeningin your industry and how do you
as a leader respond to that?
So now, you know, if things aregoing to happen in my industry,
I might not have the answers, Imight not have the direction.
But hey, if I follow you, if Iread your post, at least you
give me your thoughts on what iswise to do.
(41:48):
And it gives me the opportunityto either follow your way or
choose my own path.
But industry-related contentcoming from leaders again is so
much more valuable than justpublish an industry report on a
company page.
100% in general, in general, orin short grant, it's the
dynamic, it's a diversity inyour content mix that makes it
(42:11):
more uh attractive for differenttypes of audience to start
following you.
SPEAKER_01 (42:16):
I think you're absolutely right.
Everybody consumes informationdifferently.
They they do, they eat somepeople like uh they like to
read, some people like video,some people like audio.
I came on my book, it was like,oh, is it available in audio?
Audio pie.
I'm a podcaster, it should beavailable in audio, right?
People like to listen, other wayto work, and that type of thing.
Different modalities of givinguh your message, but the
(42:38):
authentic message, we don't we Ithink we undervalue the net the
the power of story andnarrative.
Um so it's just not sendinginformation out.
What we have learned in our nowAI-centric uh world is that AI
is very good at data andinformation.
What it's not very good at iscontext when it comes to applied
(42:59):
knowledge and wisdom.
We supply that, and that is whatis attractive.
Emotional intelligence,situational awareness is so
important.
But then you can have a I use AIas a platform to elevate, to
amplify that context, thatwisdom that's so important.
You just mentioned is right nowwe're preparing for a tech and
(43:23):
leadership summit in St.
Croix, U.S.
Virgin Islands next spring.
And why?
We are shaping conversationsaround trust, so big right now,
influence, human-centered AI, Icall it HAI, and leadership
vision.
We want to invite the world into talk and how do we utilize
(43:47):
these platforms to work with usand not against us?
I want to first, I want this ismy last question, one maybe.
I I have one more after that,but I'm gonna definitely ask
this question.
Based on your global experience,what conversations do you
believe leaders must have rightnow to prepare for this next era
(44:09):
of digital influence?
And let us know how often doesLinkedIn change these algorithms
in your experience on a yearlybasis?
SPEAKER_00 (44:19):
Yeah, so to start to answer with your last question,
nobody knows exactly.
Nobody knows, and also if youtalk with I have a lot of
contact with people working atLinkedIn offices over the world,
San Francisco, Singapore,Europe.
Uh, a lot of people who sellLinkedIn products, they don't
even have a clue, you know,because it's a it's a product
(44:40):
development department, is theirengineer team that is working on
the algorithm.
It's also a myth that there isone single LinkedIn algorithm.
This is something that wementioned in our latest report.
There's no single algorithm.
They're working multiplemechanisms.
Some of them are working on yourfeet, some of them are working
on your uh rank, how do yourprofile rank?
(45:03):
Some of them are working on yournetwork.
Um, what we are witnessing atthe moment, which started
already at the end of 24, thethe the serious downfall in
reach is one of the biggestalgorithm tweaks we have seen in
the last five years, especiallynow, also with the introduction
of 360 brew, which wasintroduced in January, but we've
(45:26):
started to notice the impactsince May, June this year.
In general, I always say topeople, and that's why we do a
bi-annual report, there are twomoments in the year that
LinkedIn analyzes what'shappening.
Because they're also respondingwith algorithm tweaks to our
(45:46):
human behavior.
I mean, the more people thatfind ways to gamify the
algorithm, the next thingLinkedIn will probably do is
make it impossible to gamify thealgorithm in that specific way.
So a lot of tweaks are alsomeant to keep it like almost
like a fair platform, a fairgame where you really need to
(46:07):
add value to get visibilityinstead of you know, you need to
exactly how to pose, you need tobe an engagement pod, and you
need to have all thesemanipulative tactics to stay
alive on LinkedIn.
So so we don't know.
I would say like really bigshifts are not done on a yearly
base, but little tweaks arealmost done continuously.
(46:27):
Um and it's impossible to, youknow, I never advise people to
chase the algorithm or toexactly want to know 100% what
is going on.
If you have basic knowledge andif you have the sources to stay
up to date on the latestchanges, that's enough because
you should always write for yourhuman audience and never for the
algorithm.
(46:48):
Okay, so that that's importantto say.
Um, and your first question wasabout what was your first
question?
I'm getting so enthusiasticabout the algorithm, Grandma.
I forgot your first question.
SPEAKER_01 (46:59):
Well, and and what we're talking about there is
this based on your experience,your global experience, the
conversations that you believeleaders right now should prepare
for this next era of digitalinfluence.
SPEAKER_00 (47:12):
Yeah, that's it.
That's that's it's an excellentquestion.
I don't know if I have the rightanswer, and the reason why is
because you mention global, aswe have clients in Asia, we have
clients in the Middle East,Europe, you know, the Americas,
and some things are also umcultural related.
(47:36):
There are some countries whereAI, even posting on LinkedIn, is
not as obvious as, for example,it is in the US or in the
Netherlands.
Okay.
Um, if we work, for example,with German-based companies,
they are much more prudent topublish on LinkedIn, they have
(47:56):
more guidelines, they still havesocial media policies of 100
pages.
Whereas companies in the US aremuch more open, like, okay, it's
your profile.
We understand that you have acommon sense, do your thing, and
you know, if something goeswrong, we will let you know.
It's the other way around.
Like, we will facilitate you, wewill empower you.
If you do something wrong, hey,we will we will let you know.
(48:17):
Instead of we do not want you topublish this before marketing,
legal, have a proof, which isyou know, uh not the way you
want to go.
Um AI is not going to, it's nota hype.
Okay.
I remember that one of my firstdiscussions uh back two years
ago was ah, this is a hype.
No, it's not a hype.
(48:38):
It's here, it's not onlychanging the way how we
communicate, it's changing theway how we work, it's changing
the way how we um receive news,it's also changing the way how
we act based on new insights.
So AI is here to stay in in allover our life, literally.
(49:01):
I'm not talking just aboutLinkedIn.
It's like where we we are, Ithink we don't even realize how
much AI is already part of ourlives, yeah.
But um it's important tounderstand how can we make use
of AI in a way that it doesn'tharm again the trust and
(49:21):
credibility we have from ourcompany to our clients or even
to our stakeholders.
So, how can we remain authenticand how can we use AI as a tool
to do things simply in a moreprofessional, more efficient
way?
Um, adding the human layer,that's even more important, uh,
but also um doing it in a waythat it scales our business
(49:48):
because I really believe that AIcan be an accelerator for every
business when it's used in avery efficient um way, but it
needs the human layer, it needsthe human approach, and I think
that should be the discussionthat leaders should have within
(50:08):
the company, with the legaldepartment, with marketing, even
with a sales team, like okay,every sales, every hiring of a
new employee, like we said inthe beginning of the discussion
grant, is based on trust.
So, how can we use these AItools without eroding the trust
and credibility we have for theclients?
(50:29):
What are the sections in ourcompany?
Is it sales, is it marketing, isit the hiring, the recruitment
process, where we can use smartAI tools to scale faster?
Because I'm I'm I'm positivethat when we understand how we
can use AI and see betterresults, that you get more
(50:51):
people on board.
Um and the more people you haveon board, the the better the
discussion becomes within acompany as well on how do we
keep the human element ineverything we do with AI.
So um, yeah, it's it's if I needto like explain it to you know,
(51:11):
maybe kindergarten kids, I wouldsay, how can we become friends
with AI without losingourselves?
SPEAKER_01 (51:18):
That's it.
I love it, I love it.
Yeah, this has been a greatdiscussion.
I only have one question to askyou.
You've been on a lot of shows,you've been on a lot of
keynotes, you've been on a lotof uh stages.
This is your first stage beingon the Follow Brand podcast with
me, Grant Magarr.
How did you like yourexperience?
SPEAKER_00 (51:36):
It was wonderful, it was wonderful.
Um, you know, like I said in thebeginning, I think we weren't
recording.
I like to do things off-grid, Ilike to do the things that are
not scripted, and you know,sometimes you have silences,
sometimes you say things thatlater on you might think, ah, I
should have you know said it ina different way, but it's pure,
it's human, it builds trust.
SPEAKER_01 (51:57):
Yeah, you said it, you said it best.
I can't wait to see you, myfriend, on the sandy beaches of
St.
Croix.
Be on the lookout for that thiscoming spring.
We're inviting the world, we'vegot to get on top of this.
What you said right there iswhat I've been saying AI in its
maturity cycle.
We're all on this this new ageof uh intelligent technology and
(52:22):
the use case for it, all of usare a part of it, and we no
one's using it absolutelycorrectly, no one's using it
absolutely incorrectly.
We've got to get to a pointwhere we can scale with it and
then we keep the human element,we amplify the human voice.
I want to thank you so much.
And before we let go, becauseyou got a tribe out there, it's
probably listening to us, that'syour tribe.
(52:44):
Uh, let us know how to contactyou and how we can engage with
you uh further in the future.
SPEAKER_00 (52:50):
You want me to do it now, Brent?
Sure.
So if you go to my LinkedInprofile, my name is Richard
Vanderblom.
You see in my features sectionthere is a link to my community.
It's called the Tribe, it's anexclusive community where um we
all share the same goal, andthat's basically grow our
business in a human um human wayby having smart LinkedIn
(53:13):
strategies, tactics, umsupported by updates, data uh
from, for example, the algorithmresearch, but also we have a lot
of cultural studies, like if youwork international, we have
three masterclasses a month, uh,and the price it's it's a
thousand euros a year.
So I think it's about I don'tknow, 11, maybe 1200 a year.
(53:35):
I mean, you have 35 livemasterclasses, you have early
access to all the reports andresearch we do.
Even for me, it would be ano-brainer.
But you know, feel free to join.
In my featured section, there'sa link.
Uh, if you have any questions,just drop me a message on
LinkedIn.
SPEAKER_01 (53:50):
You are so valuable, my friend.
You are helping us all toutilize these platforms at scale
for business development, careerdevelopment.
I am all about that.
I love when you're talking aboutthe clusters that are being I
think LinkedIn is gettingsmarter.
I'm starting to see the peoplethat are engaging, people that
say, Hey, these suggestions likeGrant, you should engage with or
(54:11):
become friends with or followsuch and such.
And it's like, you know what?
That was actually a goodrecommendation.
I think you're getting they'regetting it.
It's not just so random, exactlybecoming more specific, more
precise in its interactions.
I invite your entire audience tovisit five star videos.
That's the number five.
That is star be for brand, d fordevelopment, and for
(54:32):
masters.com.
See all the different episodeson all the different experts
that we have in this field.
I am so happy to have had you onthe show, my friend.
SPEAKER_00 (54:42):
Thank you very much, Shakran.
The pleasure was all mine.
SPEAKER_01 (54:44):
Thank you.
Bye bye.
Welcome everybody to the PowerBram Podcast.
This is where we amplify thevoices shaping the future of
leadership, technology, andhuman influence.
I am your host, Grant McGall,and today we are joined by
someone whose work hastransformed the way millions of
(00:22):
professionals show up onLinkedIn and in the digital
world.
My guest is the Global Authorityon Social Selling, Digital
Trust, and LinkedIn Strategy, aman whose annual algorithm
insights report has beendownloaded over six million
times.
He's a trainer of over 300,000professionals and a keynote
(00:47):
speaker trusted by organizationsacross five continents.
And he's also the founder ofJust Connecting Hub, the
visionary behind the tribecommunity, and one of the most
influential voices shaping howwe understand trust and
visibility online.
So please welcome RichardVanderblom to the Follow Brand
(01:10):
Podcast.
SPEAKER_00 (01:11):
Wow, Grant.
First of all, thanks for havingme.
And that was uh an epicintroduction.
I mean, I've had many, but thiswas really epic, and it also
made me think that indeed I havebeen quite busy over the past
years, especially on LinkedIn.
Yeah, so amazing numbers.
And again, thank you for havingme.
Looking forward to thisconversation.
SPEAKER_01 (01:30):
Absolutely.
And we gotta dive right in.
I mean, you just dropped the2025 algorithm insights report.
People wait every year to likeread these things.
I mean, your latest uh blog thatI saw is your post.
You're talking about the the arcof LinkedIn over time in seven
worlds that you kind of like,you know, show that they're
(01:52):
golden age and kind of wherethey're at now.
And you've seen how this haschanged the way thousands of
professionals think aboutvisibility on LinkedIn.
Here's my first question for youWhat's the biggest shift in
trust signals this year thatmost people still don't fully
understand?
SPEAKER_00 (02:13):
Well, I think that's directly one of the maybe key
questions and also keychallenges of LinkedIn at the
moment.
I think um, you know, wheneverI'm on stage, Grant, I always
have one particular slide I liketo use, and it's a question for
the audience where I say, like,um, what's the key word in all
(02:35):
successful human interactions?
Okay, not necessarily inbusiness, I mean, even in your
private relationships, what'sthe key word?
And obviously, that keyword istrust, because without trust,
you don't sell your products,you don't find your next job,
and for sure you will never findyour next partner in life.
Because if there's no trust,there's no commitment.
And you just mentioned my postfrom today where I explained the
(02:58):
seven errors.
And I personally I think that ifI look back to like say eight,
nine, maybe ten years ago onLinkedIn, trust was key.
I mean, there was no AI, uh, thealgorithm was not as complex as
now, meaning simply if LinkedIntold you you have 10,000 views,
(03:19):
it actually meant that 10,000people has had seen your
content, not bots, you know, noAI tools, people.
And I think that we're on acrossroad.
Uh, it's another article I wrotein my newsletter last week
saying LinkedIn is on crossroadsbecause I've seen in the last
(03:39):
months a few, for me, valuablecreators leave the platform or
at least become less active onthe platform because of a few
things that are happening.
You know, the algorithm is beingtweaked by LinkedIn in a way
we've never seen before, leadingto less results, less
visibility, people gettingfrustrated.
But that's not the main reason.
(04:00):
The main reason why they areleaving is that they are feeling
that their words are going intothe void because of all the AI
tools, AI commenting tools, AIreading tools.
So, and I think that's a reallyimportant signal that LinkedIn
should really take into accountin a very serious way.
(04:22):
Because if we lose trust in theplatform, if I send you a
message on LinkedIn and I losetrust that you personally will
read it, you personally willrespond to it, then I think it's
the end of the platform as weknow it today.
People will literally turn away.
I mean, nobody is there to speakor listen to robots or to get
(04:46):
automated messages where yousimply know, instantly feel this
is not coming from the person Iknew.
SPEAKER_01 (04:52):
What you said there, and I want the audience to
really lean in on this.
This is very, very important.
I call it in a word, responsibleuse of AI.
I've been in informationtechnology 25, 30 plus years.
I understand about technologyadoption, and there's different
levels to this.
Some people adopt it early, somepeople really laggers on
(05:15):
adoption, and it takes time toreally tweak and get to that
sweet spot on the use ofdifferent tool sets.
I think we're still in thatinfancy of AI, like, hey, it's
cool.
I'm trying out, I'm doing thisand doing that, and
understanding thathuman-to-human interaction is
still king.
It really is.
People like talking to otherhuman beings, and if you think
(05:38):
you're talking to a bot,remember a bot is not a
conscious thing, it's a stringof mathematical principles.
So all of a sudden, to yourpoint, you feel like you're
talking to the void.
I think that's a problem that weneed to address, right?
SPEAKER_00 (05:52):
Yeah, I I fully agree.
Also, we need to be aware thatif we talk about the LinkedIn
user, it's non-existing.
There is no LinkedIn user, thereare different groups with
different behavior that have adifferent influence on our
audience in general.
To give you an example, thereare less than 0.1% of LinkedIn
(06:19):
members that are using LinkedInand AI and automation tools in
such a way that they impactalmost 30% of all conversations
and post on LinkedIn.
So imagine this 0.1% is soactive.
Call them the front runners,early adopters or or or of AI,
(06:39):
whatever you like to call them,but they're so active in testing
this new, often automatedoutreach, automated messages, AI
posting.
But they're so influentialbecause they are so active that
they impact 30% of allconversations and posts on
LinkedIn, which means the bigaudience, which you just
(07:01):
mentioned, which are still inthe early stage of, hey,
actually, that's pretty cool.
You know, ChatGPT can reallyhelp me to become a better
writer or can create a betterhook.
They don't have, we don't givethem the time to adopt and to
feel safe with the technologybecause the frontrunners are
already targeting them with allkind of, yeah, I'm just gonna
(07:23):
call it like it is, sleazytactics, automated tactics,
eroding the trust that ouraudience has on LinkedIn.
I recently spoke to a CEO of avery big software company when
we discussed our LinkedInpartnership.
And one of the things he said,Richard, I know this is
important for a sales team, butI myself have stopped checking
(07:43):
LinkedIn on a daily basis.
I do it once a week, and thefirst thing I need to do is
delete 40 emails fromsalespeople who I've never
spoken to, who lack relevance,they haven't built any trust,
and they're trying to pitch mesomething.
And that's exactly the reasonwhy I don't check LinkedIn daily
anymore because it it's it'ssimply not fun.
(08:05):
It it doesn't add value.
And that's you know, uh a placewhere we all should not want to
go with this still veryimportant and potential,
potentially very successfulnetwork.
SPEAKER_01 (08:19):
What you're saying is so important.
That's where responsibility hasto come in and governance has to
come in.
LinkedIn has to look at it like,hey, are we diluting the
platform?
Are we are we not are we takenaway for the the purpose of what
the platform was there?
It was for business people totruly network amongst
(08:39):
themselves, to showcase thoughtleadership, to actually bring
value to other people that areinterested in these topics,
these subjects, to learn more,to get more information.
But if we turn it into aautomated, bot-driven,
ad-centric, you know, uh uhplatform, people will turn away.
I know I do the same thing.
(09:00):
I turn on my LinkedIn, I'll getI see my DM, I get five or six
completely you know, uselesssales messages, no
understanding.
I don't understand that thatpart, then I I want to say this
directly to the people that aredoing this.
If you let's just say you're ata networking event, right, and
and you come up and I come up toRichard, right?
(09:22):
And Richard immediately startspitching me on his product and
service.
I don't know him from Adam.
What's gonna be my opinion ofhim?
Now he might have a great greatproduct and a great service, but
that is that is so out of linefor for a true conversation to
take place, to then get intimacyof trust, as you just stated,
(09:46):
and then begin to say, hey,opening the door, and like I do
want to know more about you.
And then then at that point, youcan then you've been invited to
give me your elevator pinch, andthen we can discuss like that.
Sounds interesting.
Let's take this to anotherlevel.
I think that's a misstep forsalespeople, it's a misstep.
And if you automate the wholeprocess, remember, you know, uh
(10:07):
algorithms are not they have nocontext, they're just as they do
with their program.
You're going to push people awayand not pull people in.
That's my opinion.
SPEAKER_00 (10:16):
Yeah, I I I agree.
Although it it's it's it'sfascinating, you know.
Sometimes I have I find myselfhaving too much time, and then I
take up the challenge and I'mgoing to actually respond to the
bad outreach.
So I get, you know, yeah, andI've got like like you, I get
many.
(10:36):
Like even this morning, I wascalled, hey Robert.
I mean, my name is Richard.
If you can't even get my nameright, I mean, where do you
start in building trust?
Anyway, so every now and then Irespond to them and I try to
challenge them to rethink theiroutreach approach.
Okay.
And I'm saying things like, Hey,you've sent me a message, I do
not know you, you haven'tmentioned anything about my
(10:58):
content.
And like you did in thebeginning of this conversation,
there is so much hooks you canfind by going to my profile.
I mean, I don't need acompliment, but show that you
have done your homework, knowwho I am.
You know, it's it's so easy toconnect with me on a human
level.
Anyway, so I respond, and theneight out of ten cases, I don't
(11:18):
hear anything, okay?
Because I'm just being a pain inthe ass.
Because, you know, normal peoplelike you, for example, they just
delete a conversation.
Like, I'm not going to respond.
So if they get a response andit's this, you know, crazy Dutch
guy saying, like, hey, youshould maybe rethink your
outreach strategy, I think theyfeel annoyed or they go, like,
nah, you know, delete.
(11:40):
Last week, no, I'm lying, twoweeks ago, I got a clearly
automated message from someone Ireally know, a Dutch guy, he's
an entrepreneur.
I value his entrepreneurship.
I mean, he's built aseven-figure company from
scratch, but he knows me.
I mean, we have had severalmeetings.
(12:01):
I visited his office like five,six years ago, and he sent me a
clearly automated message.
So I reached out to him and Isay, like, how come being
connected with our history thatwe know each other, we've
discussed business, that yousent me an automated message?
I mean, it's putting me off.
I feel like I'm targeted andthat you are not honoring the
(12:22):
relationship we already built,you know, and it it works
opposite.
I get a bad feeling about it.
Like, you see me just like anyregular contact you have on
LinkedIn.
And his response, you know, itwas bizarre.
He literally said, Richard, I'msorry to have annoyed you, but
I've sent out 3,000 messages inthe last week.
(12:46):
And we have landed 28 meetings.
Wow.
Okay.
And then I went like, okay,okay, cool.
So you have sent out 3,000messages to connections like me
with whom you already build arelationship.
You just say that yourconversion rate is below 1%.
(13:07):
Below 1%.
28 meetings, 3,000 messages.
You have 2,992 people who eitherhave not responded, deleted the
message, and some of them mighteven have deleted the
connection, or even worse, theyare never going to do business
with you again because you justlike like I felt, you just
(13:30):
pretended like they're a sittingduck to be sold something
instead of a valuablerelationship.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, he disagreed.
You know, he said, you know, Idon't think people will
disconnect with me or see medifferently, and for us it
works.
And then he mentioned obviouslytime.
He said, I simply don't have thetime to reach out to 3,000
people on a you know,tailor-made, hyper-personalized
(13:53):
way.
So, you know, then again I said,why would you reach out to
3,000?
Why not start with 30, buildrelationships?
And if you get a you know, aconversion rate of 10%, which is
you know, I often reach 20%, sothat means I only need to reach
out to 60, and I have the sameconversion than you with 3,000
automated messages.
Just to give you an example,that a lot of these people they
(14:16):
are well aware that what theyare doing brings a lot of
negativity.
Um, but they're just playing abig numbers game and they look
at their agenda and they go,like, hey, my tool just sent out
3,000 messages.
I didn't do scratch from it, andI got 28 meetings booked on my
calendar.
So who am I to discuss with themthat they should
(14:36):
hyperpersonalize every uh uh uhmessage, follow up uh manually.
I mean, we're living in adifferent in a different era
where time is a most preciousasset, and a lot of the
salespeople they have soridiculously high KPIs that they
just are under so much pressurethat the only thing they can do
is use LinkedIn as a spammachine.
(14:58):
So I get where they're comingfrom.
The only thing is you do so muchdamage to your reputation and
trust that in the long endyou're losing the game.
That's I'm 100% sure about that.
SPEAKER_01 (15:12):
And let's just do a real case study on that, what
you just said.
How did I, Grant McGall, get intouch with you, Richard
Vanderball?
How did that happen?
I, to your point, I I I wasfollowing you on LinkedIn, I saw
the information that you had putout, I began to engage with your
post, you then began to engagewith my replies.
(15:35):
There was some some trust andauthenticity taking place.
We then took it to the DM.
Like, hey, I would be interestedin talking, potentially of
coming to the North America andSt.
Croix to talk about yourLinkedIn expertise, how we can
then get to a higher level.
Then we took it to an email uhlevel, we had conversations, and
now here we are now.
(15:56):
This is our third, fourthinteraction.
We kind of know each other.
If I had sent you a bunch ofspam uh messages, I don't think
we'd be having this conversationright now.
SPEAKER_00 (16:08):
No, no, no, and it's it's a perfect example.
Uh, and and the funny thing is,I received, and I'm not being
arrogant here, it's just like Ireceived so many comments, I
received so many DMs.
So, but I still remember thefirst comment you left on my
post because it was authentic,it was about me, uh, it was a
(16:28):
compliment on my content with aninvitation to discuss further in
a one-on-one call, and it wasdone in such again a
hyper-personalized way that itinstantly built trust.
And I instantly got triggered torespond, which I did.
So I remember we had a fewconversations on LinkedIn, then
took it to email, and um, yeah,like you said, we we are now in
(16:49):
our third or fourthconversation.
The thing is that you can ittakes you several moments, it
takes you several messages,several meetings to build trust
at a level that people willactually start maybe not even
buying, but becoming interestingto buy from you or to or to you
(17:13):
know request some services, butyou can lose that instantly with
one bad message in one singlesecond.
Absolutely, and that's alsosomething that's very important.
Like everything you do nowadayson LinkedIn, we discussed the
algorithm, like every commentyou make that can be seen by
your audience, your peers, yourfuture clients, every post you
make, everything you put outthere, it it can harm your
(17:42):
credibility so much faster thanit will build, because building
trust is a is you know it's uh along game in the end.
Uh, it's important to do, but ittakes several like meetings,
encounters, or whatever youknow, conversations.
So that's also something Ialways say to the people you
know we coach like don't go forthe quick win.
It's non-existing on LinkedIn.
(18:03):
You might have a lucky shot, butin the end, especially if you're
in you know B2B sales or youknow um your average every every
B2B salesperson that has anaverage deal size, let's say
above 50,000 grand or$50,000,you you don't get those deals
(18:25):
instantly on LinkedIn.
I mean, you can have a luckyshot, but it's always you need
to be um you need to make aneffort to build a relation, to
be there, to be present for alonger time until you get your
first one-on-one meeting.
And that's something a lot ofpeople forget.
They still see LinkedIn as thisB2B sales spam machine where you
can send out a lot of messagesand you know, a few lucky shots,
(18:47):
fill your agenda, and hope youyou you close the deal.
It's it's not working like that.
It never did, by the way.
The only thing is, previously wenever had the tools to scale
that fast.
We didn't had automation, wedidn't had AI.
And now, with those tools, wethink that we can bypause all
these elements and ingredientsfor trust.
It's not true.
SPEAKER_01 (19:08):
Now you're getting into a lane I think a lot of
people want to hear about, andthat's these vanity metrics,
like ears, comments, uh, justbecause you're like, wow, I've
got this enormous reach, I'vegot all these followers, I've
got all these connections, andthey feel because you're bigger
in in certain aspects of vanitymetrics, but are you actually
(19:30):
effective in the goal thatyou've set out?
Business development, careerdevelopment.
Is that actually happening?
What's the true measurement?
And I'm asking you thisquestion: what is the true
measurement of success do youfeel with social selling on
LinkedIn?
SPEAKER_00 (19:47):
Yeah, that's a that that's a very interesting
question.
Um, because a lot of people talkabout vanity metrics and they
mention likes, comments, views,impressions of vanity metrics.
I partly agree because for me,visibility, which is measured in
(20:09):
impressions of views, is a valuemetric, it's not even a vanity
metric.
Why?
Because without views, there isno engagement, without
engagement, there's noconversation, without
conversation, there's noconversion.
It all starts with becomingvisible.
So if we would say right fromthe start, I'm posting on India,
(20:29):
but I don't care if I get 50,000views or 500 views, that's
that's BS.
That's simply not true.
Because you will not get thesame visibility amongst your
potential clients if you arelike having limited views.
The thing is, I don't think thatyou should had any you should
(20:50):
have any KPIs on those things.
No KPIs on how many averageviews do I want to have, how
many average likes, because inthe end, we're talking about
conversion.
So, yes, fuse is important, soyou should have an eye on how
many views are my post getting.
Can I improve that number?
But the real metrics, the realKPIs for me are, for example,
(21:15):
incoming direct messages fromyour target audience based on
your post, incoming invites fromyour target audience.
A lot of people who we workwith, a lot of leaders who I
work with, they find that aftertweaking their profile, their
content strategy, even theirengagement strategy, they are
(21:36):
getting invited by much morepeople that they notice are
directly relevant for theirbusiness, peers, influencers,
potential clients, people fromthe industry.
Because the more relevant youare, obviously, the more pool
you will have to the rightpeople.
So incoming direct messages,incoming invrites from your
target audience, you can measureconversion if you work with
(21:58):
things what we call like um lowcommitment offers on your
profile.
So if you have, for example, anewsletter where people can sign
up, if you have uh, I don'tknow, some people have like a
free consultancy call of 15minutes.
If the right people are makingare signing up for your
newsletter, if the right peopleare booking these calls, it
means that you're attracting theattention from the right
(22:23):
audience.
And those are the real metrics.
Marketing also wants to you knowmeasure how much traffic do we
get on a website coming fromLinkedIn.
For me, and this is where I haveuh a lot of uh discussions,
sometimes even uh verbal fightswith the marketing department,
because it's old school thinkingthat you want to drive people
(22:47):
away from the place where theyfeel safe, where they want to
be, their LinkedIn network, toyour website where they know
they're going to be targeted,they know you're going to
position yourself, that you wantto sell them something.
So, why not have thatconversation and why not build
that trust first on LinkedInbefore directing them to your
website?
Make them ready to buy orconvert before they go to your
(23:09):
website.
Anyway, back to the metrics.
So, no to likes, um, comments,reposts, it's all nice, but yes
to incoming invites, incomingdirect messages, conversion on
low commitment offers that youcan see are coming directly from
LinkedIn.
Those are the most importantmetrics.
SPEAKER_01 (23:28):
I like that.
I like, and I just saw thishappen for me personally.
Uh let's see, every time when Ido a LinkedIn live, I'm on a
live uh podcast or webinar.
I get a parry of people thenwanting to connect with me or
send me messages, and I knowthat came directly from that
content, so there's directcorrelation there to what is
(23:52):
happening that, and then youknow that hey, they they must
have really liked that.
There was meaningful engagement,and that from there, now you've
got trust, like ability, right?
You know, like and trust isvery, very good.
Uh, and and they see one thing Ilove about that is that you're
live, they know you're not abot, right?
So there's certain things withinthe LinkedIn platform that still
(24:15):
are very relevant.
LinkedIn Live is a great onebecause they see, like, hey,
it's very difficult to simulateyou know, an AI avatar for you
know 30 minutes talking to otherpeople about uh sensitive uh
information.
This is very, very in important.
SPEAKER_00 (24:32):
That's that's in general, in general, why video
content, so uh LinkedIn Live isalso video, but video content
performs much better when itcomes to trust building and in
the end conversion than writtencontent.
I mean, you can write yourposts, you can have the amazing
document posts, infographics,share everything.
But if people see you, hear you,it builds instant trust, at
(24:55):
least if you say the rightthings, obviously.
But video is should be a veryimportant pillar in your content
strategy, especially forleaders, special.
SPEAKER_01 (25:02):
And you you originally highlighted the
importance of second and thirddegree engagement.
My question is, why do you thinkstrangers to your platform who
you are now carry morealgorithmic weight than our
inner circle?
And how should executives adjusttheir strategy based on this
information?
SPEAKER_00 (25:24):
I think the it's obviously it's obviously a tweak
that LinkedIn made in the intheir algorithm.
Um I think it has something todo with if people who haven't
heard of you before your lastpost are not only willing to
read your post but are alsowilling to leave a like, a
(25:46):
comment, or a repost.
It means that somebody with whomyou didn't have any trust is now
drawn to your post in a way thatit adds relevance, it's value
for them.
And a lot of people on LinkedIn,they have what I call their
inner engagement circle.
I myself have it.
Every every time I always postin the morning, every time I
(26:08):
post, I can give you on a paperthe 30 names that are amongst
the first 50 people to comment.
I know that, you know, those aremy ambassadors, I really love
what they are doing for mybrand.
I mean, they they elevate my myvisibility as well.
But LinkedIn knows that theyknow that each one of us has an
inner circle, and maybe itdoesn't even matter what I post,
(26:32):
they will simply like or commentbecause it comes from Richard.
But now, if somebody in theirnetwork who just seen my post
because of their engagement seesme for the first time, spends
time reading or watching my postand then engages, it means that
there must be something in thatpost that is so relevant that
adds value for that person thathe's willing to engage.
(26:55):
And that's why that engagementhas a higher impact on the
acceleration of views, thegrowth of impressions than your
inner circle.
And I don't know if you haveseen my latest post on a new
element in the LinkedInalgorithm, which is called 360
Brood, it comes from uh mate uhMeta.
(27:17):
And that explicitly says thatLinkedIn is working now for
individuals, it doesn't existfor company pages, with what
they call interest clusters,which means if your profile and
your content is aligned aroundyour main topic of expertise,
(27:39):
they can now position yourselfin an interest cluster.
Okay, so for example, if all myposts have a link with social
selling, if all my posts sharevaluable information for
salespeople on how to useLinkedIn in a better way, then
my interest cluster will besalespeople B2B, which means now
(28:00):
LinkedIn is going to show mypost to more people outside my
first degree, second and third,coming from the interest cluster
B2B sales.
So you get less reach, we allget less reach, but you get more
relevance reach because of yourinterest cluster.
Now, if I'm getting nervousabout my numbers, if I'm seeing
(28:22):
that my reach is going down, andI just see an infographic being
published on LinkedIn by someonein, let's say, uh, I don't know,
leadership, and it's about uhthe 10 leadership tips for good
leaders.
And I see that this post isgetting massive traction.
What a lot of people did in thelast year is they would
literally take that infographicbecause they know it goes viral,
(28:44):
publish it themselves and say,hey, I just found this great
infographic about 10 leadership.
And you get a you get it, yougot a huge amount of reach.
However, all the people thatengage with that post are
probably not your clientsbecause they're not salespeople
in my in my case.
Secondly, now you are confusingLinkedIn because they thought
(29:06):
you were all about socialselling in my case.
Now I'm sharing this leadershippost, and this is very important
for people to be successful in2026.
If you confuse LinkedIn and theycannot position yourself in an
interest cluster, you will seeless and less performance of
your content because LinkedIn isnot going to help you anymore.
So, one of the key uh strategiesfor 2026 should be stay in lane.
(29:32):
Okay, 80% of your posts shouldbe around your main topic of
expertise.
SPEAKER_01 (29:38):
This now, see that's golden nugget.
That was really good informationto understand and and know, stay
in your lane, know your area,expertise, thought, leadership.
Very, very important.
And we're starting to also seethis little blue button that's
going in at the top of your postnow that says B O O S T boost.
(29:59):
Yeah.
What do you think about boost?
Is it boosting within thattarget cluster?
Is it a money grab for LinkedIn?
Is it good, bad, or indifferent?
What do you think?
SPEAKER_00 (30:10):
Well, it was a long-awaited feature to come.
You know, LinkedIn is alwayslate to the party with
everything.
They were late with hashtags,they were late with LinkedIn
stories, and now they have theuh given us the opportunity to
boost our post.
First of all, a lot of peopleand a lot of LinkedIn
specialists think that LinkedInover the past 18 months have
(30:35):
deliberately reduced organicreach to now launch the boost
feature as a solution.
Okay, so they're taking awayreach that is for free and
they're giving it back to you ifyou pay.
Okay, so a lot of people say nowwe know why they are like uh you
know suppressing reach becausethey come with this feature
(30:56):
where I can pay and thenLinkedIn is going to help me to
get more views.
It might be true, it might betrue, it would be a wise idea in
terms of mechanisms and how itworks, but for me, it's simply
an evolution of the platform.
We had boost posts on yourcompany page.
We have a lot of people,self-entrepreneurs, solo
(31:17):
entrepreneurs that don't have acompany page, and they wanted
also to boost their voice onLinkedIn.
So, you know, LinkedIn just gaveus that opportunity.
Um, I have me, I have mixedfeelings.
I've tried it uh now two timeswith some posts.
The the fun thing is that youcan actually help LinkedIn with
the interest cluster, so you canactually tell them this is my
(31:40):
target audience, this is mypreferred region, uh, and this
is my budget, obviously.
And I saw a sharp increase inreach.
I mean, I went from I think itwas 18,000 organic to about
45,000 after boosting for Imean, I think it was 150 US
dollars.
Um, the thing is that I got twoand a half times more reach.
(32:05):
I only got 1.3 times moreengagement and conversion.
So it looks mainly aimed atincreasing visibility, but since
they push it towards people whohave never heard of you, you
don't get the same.
There we we're back on the wordtrust again, grant, yeah,
because now they're pushing itoutside your bubble, which is
(32:27):
good in terms of visibility, butpeople will never buy from you
or you know uh request aproposal or whatever if it's
their first post that they see.
And they also see that this postis boosted, by the way, so they
know they're being targeted.
So I've tried it twice.
It's fun to get more numbers, toget more visibility.
I'm not sure yet if this isgoing to be the answer for
(32:49):
people that are looking for moreconversions.
SPEAKER_01 (32:51):
That's important knowledge, important knowledge,
and I see that to your point,like um, when I use LinkedIn
Navigator and that you can thenpush uh push a message, a DM to
someone like even outside ofyour circle, and and the person
knows that it came to thatplatform.
When every time I see that, Iusually delete those.
I know it's just a sales uh uhcall, more or less, that
(33:15):
someone's just trying to uhpitch me on something or other.
Definitely, and it's just asignal.
I don't think this so that's whyyou want to be a number one
connection because you don't getthat kind of thing.
Now, you have said that LinkedInis no longer just a content
platform, it's an executivepositioning ecosystem.
(33:37):
I want to know from you whatdoes that mean for organizations
that want to elevate their brandand their leadership?
SPEAKER_00 (33:48):
Um so the good news is that I still see LinkedIn as
the number one platform forexecutives to show their
leadership and to positionthemselves as thought leaders,
but also to lead their companiesin getting more visibility on
(34:08):
LinkedIn.
I mean, we've seen, and it'sobvious, that companies where
board members sea level areabove average active on
LinkedIn, we see that also theemployees are doing more things
on LinkedIn, they're doing theright things, they're having a
very good vibe and they'regetting more results.
(34:28):
Basically, that's it.
So, what what what is veryimportant for leaders nowadays
is that they understand a bithow the ecosystem works, but
also how people um are lookingfor content, are um giving value
to content because a lot of themin the past are referring to the
(34:51):
marketing department saying,like, hey, we have this great
company page and they'reresponsible, and you know,
nobody gives anything about yourcompany page.
You know, I'm I'm looking for II'm preventing myself to swear
on your podcast grant, but um,nobody goes to your company
page, nobody's interested incorporate communication and
(35:11):
data.
Maybe I'm exaggerating, but I'mjust wanting them to make a
statement.
SPEAKER_01 (35:15):
You're right.
SPEAKER_00 (35:15):
But data says it too, exactly.
But if I can follow this thoughtleader, which could be the CEO
or the CEO or whoever is athought leader in the company, I
can follow this person.
This person is like creatingthis authentic uh uh LinkedIn
post, on average, they get 12times more engagement, eight
(35:38):
times more views, six times morefollowers than the company page.
Okay.
Now imagine that it's not onlythe CEO, but they have a second
layer of thought leaders in thecompany as well, having an
organic authentic contentstrategy.
So instead of one main channelthat nobody cares about, that
nobody wants to follow yourcompany page, now you have
(36:01):
seven, eight, maybe tenadditional channels by having
several thought leaders havingan authentic content strategy on
LinkedIn, engaging with theiraudience, growing their networks
with peers, people from theindustry, future clients,
current clients.
That's a huge, huge social valueyou have there.
(36:23):
It's huge in terms of visibilityand in terms of uh relevance.
SPEAKER_01 (36:28):
Basically, that what you said there is so important.
And in my new book, as you seebehind me over there, first
flight, I talk about risingabove the algorithms by building
a presence that's so rooted inyour vision, your values, and
your undeniable thoughtleadership.
(36:49):
I want to hear from you becausethese they're always tweaking
these algorithms, and you gottabecause I this is an allegory
book, right?
It's not just you know atextbook, it's a narrative.
But I talk about how youovercome uh these algorithmic
platforms to being authenticbecause you can't outspend
somebody.
You just talked about that.
(37:09):
You know, there's paid ads outthere, there's people that are
uh kind of gaming the system.
How can you maintain yourauthentic voice, your authentic
reputation?
You're trying to build yourpersonal brand that even the
algorithms can't suppress.
What would you say, in youropinion?
SPEAKER_00 (37:29):
I think the most important part um is to have a
diversity within your contentstrategy.
Um to make sure you have thetime to draft your content
yourself, so not to turn to AIwith one line and say, write me
a post on modern leadership andthen copy-paste it directly.
(37:51):
Especially with the release of360 Brew in the LinkedIn
algorithm, it detects AIpatterns.
Whenever AI patterns aredetected in comments or in
posts, they are suppressed inreach because they're less
authentic.
Okay, LinkedIn is also workingon what they call internally a
credibility score for eachmember.
(38:12):
The higher your credibilityscore, the higher your reach is
because the more authentic youare.
What I always advise to leadersis to stay away from playing
safe.
(38:32):
Because, and I do understandthat in some industries
companies have uh guidelines onwhat people can say or not say
on LinkedIn.
I know that, for example, a CEOof a financial institution, a
bank or insurance companycannot, or pharma company, for
(38:54):
example, cannot say the samethings as this really cool CEO
of this marketing PR company,you know.
So I do understand that, butstay away from content that
looks like it's written by amarketing department.
I'm talking about the whitepapers, the the the very um high
(39:14):
quality articles, but mix it,you can you can share them, but
mix it up with personalstorytelling.
And whenever I tell C-levelpeople personal storytelling,
they they you know they look atme like, oh no, he's asking me
to share what I had for dinnerlast night.
And I say, that's not what Imean with personal storytelling.
But hey, you have been 20, 25years in the business, you have
(39:36):
been a leader of this companyfor 10 years.
You must have had so manyterrific stories of how the
business evolved, your role,your learnings, your pitfalls.
If you share those, those are soauthentic.
Human stories are still the mostread posts on LinkedIn.
(39:56):
We all like to read stories, sothat's one thing.
Uh, a second pillar for leadersis taught leadership content.
Okay, lead me the way, show methe way, show me why I need to
follow you because you exactlytell me what is happening in our
industry, how should I respond?
Um, so it's it's it's sometimespeople refer to it as
(40:20):
educational content, but thatmight give away a certain
relationship that I'm theteacher and you need to learn
from me, but it's how tocontent, lead the way content.
Um, and then a very importantpillar is co-creation,
interaction.
Whenever we see leadersco-create content with other
leaders, um, and this could be,for example, an event, if they
(40:44):
go, if you speak on a on a stagelike you know, we're going to do
in Send Cron, the US VirginIslands.
If those people connect andcreate a joint post, talk about
their impressions together,maybe I quote you, or maybe I
quote the other speaker, itblows up because it's dynamic,
it's not just my opinion, it'sthe opinion of a lot of like uh
(41:06):
uh uh knowledgeable people.
Uh so co-creation is a veryimportant pillar for leaders.
Um, and then the last one isalso um we refer to it as um
industry-related content.
So now it's not about yourbusiness, it's not about your
(41:28):
company, but what is happeningin your industry and how do you
as a leader respond to that?
So now, you know, if things aregoing to happen in my industry,
I might not have the answers, Imight not have the direction.
But hey, if I follow you, if Iread your post, at least you
give me your thoughts on what iswise to do.
(41:48):
And it gives me the opportunityto either follow your way or
choose my own path.
But industry-related contentcoming from leaders again is so
much more valuable than justpublish an industry report on a
company page.
100% in general, in general, orin short grant, it's the
dynamic, it's a diversity inyour content mix that makes it
(42:11):
more uh attractive for differenttypes of audience to start
following you.
SPEAKER_01 (42:16):
I think you're absolutely right.
Everybody consumes informationdifferently.
They they do, they eat somepeople like uh they like to
read, some people like video,some people like audio.
I came on my book, it was like,oh, is it available in audio?
Audio pie.
I'm a podcaster, it should beavailable in audio, right?
People like to listen, other wayto work, and that type of thing.
Different modalities of givinguh your message, but the
(42:38):
authentic message, we don't we Ithink we undervalue the net the
the power of story andnarrative.
Um so it's just not sendinginformation out.
What we have learned in our nowAI-centric uh world is that AI
is very good at data andinformation.
What it's not very good at iscontext when it comes to applied
(42:59):
knowledge and wisdom.
We supply that, and that is whatis attractive.
Emotional intelligence,situational awareness is so
important.
But then you can have a I use AIas a platform to elevate, to
amplify that context, thatwisdom that's so important.
You just mentioned is right nowwe're preparing for a tech and
(43:23):
leadership summit in St.
Croix, U.S.
Virgin Islands next spring.
And why?
We are shaping conversationsaround trust, so big right now,
influence, human-centered AI, Icall it HAI, and leadership
vision.
We want to invite the world into talk and how do we utilize
(43:47):
these platforms to work with usand not against us?
I want to first, I want this ismy last question, one maybe.
I I have one more after that,but I'm gonna definitely ask
this question.
Based on your global experience,what conversations do you
believe leaders must have rightnow to prepare for this next era
(44:09):
of digital influence?
And let us know how often doesLinkedIn change these algorithms
in your experience on a yearlybasis?
SPEAKER_00 (44:19):
Yeah, so to start to answer with your last question,
nobody knows exactly.
Nobody knows, and also if youtalk with I have a lot of
contact with people working atLinkedIn offices over the world,
San Francisco, Singapore,Europe.
Uh, a lot of people who sellLinkedIn products, they don't
even have a clue, you know,because it's a it's a product
(44:40):
development department, is theirengineer team that is working on
the algorithm.
It's also a myth that there isone single LinkedIn algorithm.
This is something that wementioned in our latest report.
There's no single algorithm.
They're working multiplemechanisms.
Some of them are working on yourfeet, some of them are working
on your uh rank, how do yourprofile rank?
(45:03):
Some of them are working on yournetwork.
Um, what we are witnessing atthe moment, which started
already at the end of 24, thethe the serious downfall in
reach is one of the biggestalgorithm tweaks we have seen in
the last five years, especiallynow, also with the introduction
of 360 brew, which wasintroduced in January, but we've
(45:26):
started to notice the impactsince May, June this year.
In general, I always say topeople, and that's why we do a
bi-annual report, there are twomoments in the year that
LinkedIn analyzes what'shappening.
Because they're also respondingwith algorithm tweaks to our
(45:46):
human behavior.
I mean, the more people thatfind ways to gamify the
algorithm, the next thingLinkedIn will probably do is
make it impossible to gamify thealgorithm in that specific way.
So a lot of tweaks are alsomeant to keep it like almost
like a fair platform, a fairgame where you really need to
(46:07):
add value to get visibilityinstead of you know, you need to
exactly how to pose, you need tobe an engagement pod, and you
need to have all thesemanipulative tactics to stay
alive on LinkedIn.
So so we don't know.
I would say like really bigshifts are not done on a yearly
base, but little tweaks arealmost done continuously.
(46:27):
Um and it's impossible to, youknow, I never advise people to
chase the algorithm or toexactly want to know 100% what
is going on.
If you have basic knowledge andif you have the sources to stay
up to date on the latestchanges, that's enough because
you should always write for yourhuman audience and never for the
algorithm.
(46:48):
Okay, so that that's importantto say.
Um, and your first question wasabout what was your first
question?
I'm getting so enthusiasticabout the algorithm, Grandma.
I forgot your first question.
SPEAKER_01 (46:59):
Well, and and what we're talking about there is
this based on your experience,your global experience, the
conversations that you believeleaders right now should prepare
for this next era of digitalinfluence.
SPEAKER_00 (47:12):
Yeah, that's it.
That's that's it's an excellentquestion.
I don't know if I have the rightanswer, and the reason why is
because you mention global, aswe have clients in Asia, we have
clients in the Middle East,Europe, you know, the Americas,
and some things are also umcultural related.
(47:36):
There are some countries whereAI, even posting on LinkedIn, is
not as obvious as, for example,it is in the US or in the
Netherlands.
Okay.
Um, if we work, for example,with German-based companies,
they are much more prudent topublish on LinkedIn, they have
(47:56):
more guidelines, they still havesocial media policies of 100
pages.
Whereas companies in the US aremuch more open, like, okay, it's
your profile.
We understand that you have acommon sense, do your thing, and
you know, if something goeswrong, we will let you know.
It's the other way around.
Like, we will facilitate you, wewill empower you.
If you do something wrong, hey,we will we will let you know.
(48:17):
Instead of we do not want you topublish this before marketing,
legal, have a proof, which isyou know, uh not the way you
want to go.
Um AI is not going to, it's nota hype.
Okay.
I remember that one of my firstdiscussions uh back two years
ago was ah, this is a hype.
No, it's not a hype.
(48:38):
It's here, it's not onlychanging the way how we
communicate, it's changing theway how we work, it's changing
the way how we um receive news,it's also changing the way how
we act based on new insights.
So AI is here to stay in in allover our life, literally.
(49:01):
I'm not talking just aboutLinkedIn.
It's like where we we are, Ithink we don't even realize how
much AI is already part of ourlives, yeah.
But um it's important tounderstand how can we make use
of AI in a way that it doesn'tharm again the trust and
(49:21):
credibility we have from ourcompany to our clients or even
to our stakeholders.
So, how can we remain authenticand how can we use AI as a tool
to do things simply in a moreprofessional, more efficient
way?
Um, adding the human layer,that's even more important, uh,
but also um doing it in a waythat it scales our business
(49:48):
because I really believe that AIcan be an accelerator for every
business when it's used in avery efficient um way, but it
needs the human layer, it needsthe human approach, and I think
that should be the discussionthat leaders should have within
(50:08):
the company, with the legaldepartment, with marketing, even
with a sales team, like okay,every sales, every hiring of a
new employee, like we said inthe beginning of the discussion
grant, is based on trust.
So, how can we use these AItools without eroding the trust
and credibility we have for theclients?
(50:29):
What are the sections in ourcompany?
Is it sales, is it marketing, isit the hiring, the recruitment
process, where we can use smartAI tools to scale faster?
Because I'm I'm I'm positivethat when we understand how we
can use AI and see betterresults, that you get more
(50:51):
people on board.
Um and the more people you haveon board, the the better the
discussion becomes within acompany as well on how do we
keep the human element ineverything we do with AI.
So um, yeah, it's it's if I needto like explain it to you know,
(51:11):
maybe kindergarten kids, I wouldsay, how can we become friends
with AI without losingourselves?
SPEAKER_01 (51:18):
That's it.
I love it, I love it.
Yeah, this has been a greatdiscussion.
I only have one question to askyou.
You've been on a lot of shows,you've been on a lot of
keynotes, you've been on a lotof uh stages.
This is your first stage beingon the Follow Brand podcast with
me, Grant Magarr.
How did you like yourexperience?
SPEAKER_00 (51:36):
It was wonderful, it was wonderful.
Um, you know, like I said in thebeginning, I think we weren't
recording.
I like to do things off-grid, Ilike to do the things that are
not scripted, and you know,sometimes you have silences,
sometimes you say things thatlater on you might think, ah, I
should have you know said it ina different way, but it's pure,
it's human, it builds trust.
SPEAKER_01 (51:57):
Yeah, you said it, you said it best.
I can't wait to see you, myfriend, on the sandy beaches of
St.
Croix.
Be on the lookout for that thiscoming spring.
We're inviting the world, we'vegot to get on top of this.
What you said right there iswhat I've been saying AI in its
maturity cycle.
We're all on this this new ageof uh intelligent technology and
(52:22):
the use case for it, all of usare a part of it, and we no
one's using it absolutelycorrectly, no one's using it
absolutely incorrectly.
We've got to get to a pointwhere we can scale with it and
then we keep the human element,we amplify the human voice.
I want to thank you so much.
And before we let go, becauseyou got a tribe out there, it's
probably listening to us, that'syour tribe.
(52:44):
Uh, let us know how to contactyou and how we can engage with
you uh further in the future.
SPEAKER_00 (52:50):
You want me to do it now, Brent?
Sure.
So if you go to my LinkedInprofile, my name is Richard
Vanderblom.
You see in my features sectionthere is a link to my community.
It's called the Tribe, it's anexclusive community where um we
all share the same goal, andthat's basically grow our
business in a human um human wayby having smart LinkedIn
(53:13):
strategies, tactics, umsupported by updates, data uh
from, for example, the algorithmresearch, but also we have a lot
of cultural studies, like if youwork international, we have
three masterclasses a month, uh,and the price it's it's a
thousand euros a year.
So I think it's about I don'tknow, 11, maybe 1200 a year.
(53:35):
I mean, you have 35 livemasterclasses, you have early
access to all the reports andresearch we do.
Even for me, it would be ano-brainer.
But you know, feel free to join.
In my featured section, there'sa link.
Uh, if you have any questions,just drop me a message on
LinkedIn.
SPEAKER_01 (53:50):
You are so valuable, my friend.
You are helping us all toutilize these platforms at scale
for business development, careerdevelopment.
I am all about that.
I love when you're talking aboutthe clusters that are being I
think LinkedIn is gettingsmarter.
I'm starting to see the peoplethat are engaging, people that
say, Hey, these suggestions likeGrant, you should engage with or
(54:11):
become friends with or followsuch and such.
And it's like, you know what?
That was actually a goodrecommendation.
I think you're getting they'regetting it.
It's not just so random, exactlybecoming more specific, more
precise in its interactions.
I invite your entire audience tovisit five star videos.
That's the number five.
That is star be for brand, d fordevelopment, and for
(54:32):
masters.com.
See all the different episodeson all the different experts
that we have in this field.
I am so happy to have had you onthe show, my friend.
SPEAKER_00 (54:42):
Thank you very much, Shakran.
The pleasure was all mine.
SPEAKER_01 (54:44):
Thank you.
Bye bye.
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