May 16, 2024 • 24 mins
Venture with us into the intricate labyrinth of mentorship in leadership, where the stakes are as high as the rewards. Uncover the hazards lurking in the shadows, such as burnout from an unbalanced mentor-mentee exchange and the treacherous missteps when false knowledge is imparted. As I, your host, guide you through this episode, we'll confront the truth that leaders are not merely born; they're painstakingly sculpted through relentless pursuit of wisdom and the right guidance. Our journey will reveal how a mentor's role is akin to that of a compass, pointing the way rather than dictating the path, allowing for the empowering discovery of personal insights and solutions.
Prepare to be challenged and inspired as we scrutinize the art of crafting effective mentor-mentee connections, anchored in the bedrock of clear goals, robust communication, and unwavering accountability. The episode unfolds the concept of knowledge as a wave, cascading from one mind to the next, with the power to initiate a global transformation. The dialogue also honors the natural evolution of mentees branching out on their own, a testament to the mentorship's success, and the obstacles faced in maintaining a laser-focused vision on proliferating the gospel and broadening church outreach. Your participation in this conversation is not just for personal enlightenment; it's a call to action, urging you to become an integral part of a movement with eternal implications.
Thanks for listening. Find us on YouTube, Substack, Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
W. Austin Gardner (00:02):
Welcome back to the World Evangelism Podcast.
It's another special edition.
I'm talking to you aboutmentoring, which is something
very dear to my heart.
I've tried to go throughdifferent stages of it, just
kind of taking our time workingour way through what it means to
mentor.
(00:22):
We've talked about what it isand we've talked about how to
prepare for it.
We've talked about some of thethings that might make you
hesitate and not think that youcould or should or can be a
mentor.
Today I come to the mostdangerous part of all.
I want to talk to you about thedangers of mentoring.
I want you to know that, inblunt honesty, being a mentor is
(00:47):
quite dangerous.
It's risky, it's a step outthere, and so people will want
to enter into a mentorrelationship with you.
But you don't know why and, tobe honest, as I talk to you, I
may not know why you want toenter in to a mentoring
(01:08):
relationship.
Jp Morgan famously said a manalways has two reasons for doing
anything a good reason and thereal reason.
A good reason and the realreason.
And so why are you wanting tomentor?
I hope it is because youbelieve that it's what 2 Timothy
(01:30):
2 tells you to do.
Take that that you've heardfrom the Bible and men of God
among many faithful witnessesand to find other faithful men
that you can commit it to, thatthey would be able to teach
others, and so we can continuegetting the gospel message to
the world.
Too many are unique.
(01:52):
They have learned how to doministry in a very special way.
They can write books, they canpreach sermons, they can build
churches, but they can't trainanyone else.
They're not imitatable.
They're just too big for that,and so I want to challenge you
to be a mentor, and, as youthink about being a mentee, by
(02:12):
the way, all of us should alwaysbe involved in mentoring and
being mentored.
None of us have ever reachedthe place where we know
everything, and I hope wecontinue growing all of our
lives.
Now, as we talk about mentoringand we talk about the ministry,
I love this quote.
The most dangerous leadershipmyth is that leaders are born,
(02:38):
that there is a genetic factorto leadership.
That's nonsense.
In fact, the opposite is trueLeaders are made rather than
born.
That's Warren Bennis who madethat comment.
I think there's a lot of truthto that.
I know that far more than youwould ever dream.
You were meant to lead and youcan lead and you are already
(03:04):
leading.
I think it's a fair statementto say that all of can lead and
you are already leading.
I think it's a fair statementto say that all of us are
leaders to some degree or other.
We lead ourselves and we leadour families, and we lead our
loved ones and we lead our verybest friends.
So we're leaders in our ownright.
But can I name some dangers foryou?
Let's just chew the fat just alittle while.
(03:24):
Let's just talk about it.
You see, one is what is oftenreferred to as being burnt out.
Burning out, the mentor becomesdepleted.
People are asking so much andthey want to learn so much, and
you give and you give and yougive until your effectiveness
(03:47):
diminishes because you're doingso much giving.
Now I want to stop right thereand say that you want a
mentor-mentee relationship wherethey want it so much that they
are nearly just almost suckingthe life out of you, and that's
why you need a mentor.
That's why you need to alwaysbe learning to teach others.
(04:09):
So I'm listening to Paul myname's Timothy I'm listening to
Paul learning from Paul, and I'mteaching others that are
teaching others.
It's a chain and even after youmay say I don't have.
You know, the great leader JohnMaxwell is always quoting people
he's learning from.
He is undisputably the greatestleadership expert on the planet
(04:34):
today Written more books,spoken to more people about
leadership, and yet he's alwayslearning.
So you've got to stretchyourself, you've got to have a
mentor.
Got to stretch yourself, yougot to have a mentor.
You can get mentors by thepeople you surround yourself
with, the books you read, theplaces you go, the podcasts you
listen to.
But you can never quit growingbecause you've always got to be
(04:56):
knowing so you can keep giving.
There's no real living withoutgiving and no growing without
knowing, and so you're going tohave to work hard at that.
Don't be burnt out, don't letit burn you out.
Now let me just say a word tothe mentee, but also to the
mentor, and that is Bernard Shawmade the comment beware of
(05:19):
false knowledge, it's moredangerous than ignorance.
And boy isn't that true.
So often when you're helping aguy, he has to unlearn.
He has to unlearn before he canlearn.
It's amazing.
I've been dealing withmissionaries for a long time,
and when they're brand new,starting deputation, they don't
(05:42):
know anything and they'rebegging for help.
But once they get a littlesupport and people start looking
up to them, they begin to get areally high and mighty feeling.
And now it's time to learn thelanguage.
And they just don't had one manlook at me and say that culture
shock was for carnal Christiansand he would never deal with it
.
And then I saw him run off upthe hill, sit under a tree and
(06:04):
cry like a baby.
I saw another one throw hisbook at the teacher language
school book at the teacher.
In other words, knowing toomuch can be dangerous.
You want to keep a learner'sattitude.
You want to not be caught up inknowing too much.
Great mentors are oftenoverwhelmed by the demand of
(06:28):
their mentees.
It seems like they never canmatch the need and I'd just like
to say to you you're only thereas a guide, you're not the big
teacher.
That's the Holy Spirit's job,that's the Word of God, and you
don't need to have all theanswers, but you need to know
(06:50):
how to find the answers.
And you don't have to knoweverything, but you ought to be
able to point them to someonethat can help them.
Other people, the Bible,whatever needs to be done to
help them learn and rememberthis they ought to aim as high
as they possibly can.
They ought to have the greatestamount of dreams possible.
(07:12):
Michelangelo said the greatestdanger for most of us is not
that our aim is too high and wemiss it, but that it's too low
and we reach it.
So help them reach for thestars to accomplish all that God
would have them, to Help themdream of very big things that
God might use them to do.
(07:32):
Now then another danger youknow we've got the danger of
burning out.
We've got the danger of beingovercommitted.
I am currently mentoringseveral young men in different
countries than Latin America,and I have to put a cap on it
because I know I can only takeso much giving without some time
(07:52):
to refresh and recuperate andbe ready for the next time.
Between the Society of Mentorsand doing this podcast and then
working right now with aboutnine different people.
That's pretty well going tokeep me hopping, I feel like.
But another danger is the poormatch, and that is that we're
(08:13):
not matched up together.
There's ineffectivecommunication and the
relationship is challengedbecause we're not matched up
together.
There's ineffectivecommunication and the
relationship is challengedbecause we're just not the kind
of people that really want towork together.
Maybe our personalities don'tgel, maybe you are threatened by
the mentee's reluctance or theway they act like or don't act
(08:35):
like they're listening.
I often say this and I'll repeatit to you again you got to get
past the skin and get past thesin and see the real person.
You got to get to the insideand see who they are, and so a
mismatch can happen.
It can happen because theydon't want what you have to give
(08:57):
, or you don't have what theywant you to give to them.
It could be because you havedifferent goals.
You know, I knew, and I knoweven now, that my goal was
always to train people, to trainpeople.
So my real goal wasn't soulwinning.
That doesn't mean we don'tbelieve in soul winning and
practice it.
It just means that I wanted totrain somebody not to be a soul
(09:20):
winner, not to be a Sundayschool teacher, not even to be a
pastor, but I want to trainpeople, to train others, so we
can make a big difference.
And so I would just say to youlook at it and make sure that
you've got a match.
Now remember this mentorsstretch the minds of their
mentees.
They help people grow.
(09:40):
Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr said Amind that is stretched by a new
experience can never go back toits old dimensions.
So once you learn and stretch,boy, that's one of the greatest
things about learning anotherlanguage, crossing a cultural
barrier, traveling to othercountries, meeting new people is
it stretches you.
(10:02):
If you get out of the cocoon,you may find that you can fly
like the butterfly instead ofliving like the worm, all
wrapped up in the cocoon.
God has big plans for you and Idon't want to see you miss
those plans.
That leads me to another danger, and that danger is a lack of
(10:23):
clarity of the mentor-menteerelationship, and that could
confuse so many people and causea strain.
Sometimes you think you'rementoring, but they think you're
their friend.
You think you're mentoring, butthey think you're their friend.
You think you're mentoring, butthey think you're their friend.
You know they think you're justgiving your opinion.
(10:46):
They didn't come to you withthe attitude and the heart of
I'm here to learn from you.
Over the years I have dealtwith so many different people.
I had one young missionary sayto me one time who elected you
as the leader here, and I said,oh, getting here 10 years before
any of you did maybe hadsomething to do with it.
No one else was here and thathappened to make me the leader.
(11:09):
Then he asked me why wecouldn't reelect leaders and
maybe he could be leader oneyear.
So there's this attitude thatthey, you know, they don't know
what's going on.
There's a confusion about thisrelationship.
So you want to have a littlebit of clear discussion and talk
.
You know, if you're going tocoach and you're going to mentor
(11:29):
, they might ought to understandthat that's what's happening as
you're doing that.
So let's just say that if youdon't make it clear, somebody's
going to get confused.
You don't have to be ugly aboutit, but they need to understand
.
I'm here to help you.
Now I want to say this to youright now, before I go any
(11:50):
further they're only going touse you until they learn what
they need to learn and they'removing on.
They're not moving in to becomeyour friend.
They're not moving in to becomea part of your family.
They are being mentored.
So they want to be able to walkaway and go do their own thing.
There's nothing wrong with that.
(12:12):
You can't get angry, you can'tget upset.
You've just got to let thathappen.
Now, boy, there's some learningstagnation.
That's a major danger.
Just because you're ahead ofthe curve doesn't mean that you
are still learning and movingand growing fast enough.
(12:33):
Different people grow atdifferent speeds and growing
fast enough.
Different people grow atdifferent speeds and so, if
you're not careful, you willreach a plateau and you'll quit
growing.
That's why you need a mentor.
You need a mentor to help youcontinue to grow and you need to
be mentoring to help themcontinue to grow.
You need a personal growth plan.
You don't want to have a planwhere you go to.
(12:56):
You want to have a plan whereyou grow to.
You want to have a plan whereyou grow to.
That's a John Maxwell thing,but it's so very, so, very, very
true.
So you want to always begrowing.
How many books are you reading?
How many podcasts are youlistening to?
Who are you seeking out to helpyou grow, so that you know more
this year than you knew lastyear?
(13:16):
As you can help people as theycontinue to grow, you're going
to have to realize that peoplegrow quickly and they'll catch
up to you.
You know, when you think aboutit, it takes about 18 years for
your children to reach what wewould call adulthood in the
United States of America.
But within a few years they'llbe parents and, honestly, you'll
(13:39):
kind of get shifted to the backseat.
You'll become a grandparent.
It's a nice way of sayingyou're off the stage, you're not
the main feature here, you'renot in charge anymore.
They've grown and caught youand that doesn't mean they know
as much as you do.
But in the mentoring worldyou've got to keep growing.
If you want them to, you've gotto keep proving that God's
(14:03):
using you and you have somethingto teach them.
Now they need well-endangeredyou don't have well-defined
objectives so that you candeliver the desired outcome you
see it needs to be.
I know how to help you,whatever.
Raise your support.
Or I know how to help you learna language.
(14:23):
I know how to help you crosscultural boundaries.
I know how to help you get achurch started.
I know how to help you learnhow to study.
So you've got to have in yourmind these clear, defined
outcomes.
And then you've got to have inyour mind these clear, defined
outcomes and then you've got torealize that they're going to
basically graduate from yourprogram.
(14:43):
They're going to move on to doother things greater and bigger
than what you have in mind rightnow.
Now danger is becomingdisengaged.
You know you can get a littlebit discouraged.
You can be like man I don'tthink they're listening to me
and they think you're notshowing that you care.
(15:04):
And there's thismisunderstanding going on.
You think you're showing loveand respect and they think that
they are being ignored and so itundermines the whole
effectiveness of the program.
So you've got to work atkeeping good communication.
You've got to work at keepingthings on a plane where you can
both talk and you can learn andgrow.
(15:25):
Otherwise you'll slowly driftapart and you'll wonder if there
was ever anything going onthere.
Let me just pause here to throwin a quote.
I think it's wonderful.
It says Arthur C Clarke saidthe only way to discover the
limits of the possible is to gobeyond them into the impossible.
(15:46):
Can you imagine what wouldhappen if you trained as many
people as you could train andthey trained as many people as
they could train?
We could change the world.
I remember years ago hearingthe first time about some major
discipleship, not minor stufflike we do in churches with new
(16:07):
believers, but where Dawson,trotman and the Navigator said
if you take one man and trainone man for a year and he
becomes pretty much equal to you, and the two of you train the
next year two people until theybecome pretty much equal to you,
and then four, and then eight,then 16, then 32, and then 64,
(16:27):
it's almost impossible toimagine what could happen as we
train people.
Now, if you're going to have amentor-mentee relationship, a
danger is not takingresponsibility, not being any
accountability.
So you know, I have it set upwith the guys I'm teaching that
(16:49):
if they miss three times, I'mgoing to take them out of my
program.
Now this is being done by Zoomand I've got a lot of people
waiting in line.
But you know it has to be.
I'm serious about this, it hasto be.
I will do the work.
So for a long time I've taughtthis.
What you want to do is take theball and put it in your court.
See, you can't make a personlearn and grow.
(17:13):
You know you can lead a horseto water, learn and grow.
You know you can lead a horseto water, but you can't make him
drink.
So what you do, what I like todo, is I like to give a
responsibility, give anopportunity and see if they
respond.
If they respond, they give itback to me.
So it's like I put the ball intheir court.
They return the ball to me, Ireturn the ball bigger, with
(17:33):
more responsibility, and we keepdoing that until, all of a
sudden, we're in thisrelationship.
Please remember you're nottrying to mentor people that are
on the same level as you.
I mean, if both of you arefirst year administrators, you
both probably need to bestudents together.
But if one of you is way downthe road and one of you is
learning the language and one ofyou is planted at one church or
(17:56):
multiple churches, that changesthat.
But you both got to takeresponsibility.
I've got to take responsibilityto say I'm going to keep
learning, I'm going to keepreaching out, I'm going to keep
showing interest.
The mentees got to takeresponsibility to say I'm going
to respond and listen and beready.
I love what Mark Twain saidit's not the size of the dog in
(18:19):
the fight, but it's the size ofthe fight in the dog.
So isn't that the truth?
So let's find people with ahunger and a passion and a
desire and a fight to get thegospel out Now.
Dangers, time constraints youknow, when you're a very busy
church planting, leader training, missionary time can get away
(18:40):
from you and you can't find thetime.
That's why I suggest,especially when you're on the
field together, that you neverdo anything by yourself.
Go together to do stuff.
Let them walk with you, letthem watch you do it, listen to
you do it, see, you do it.
Let them slowly imitate whatyou do.
Then let them take over and dowhat you do.
(19:01):
But you know time is going tobe something you wrestle with
all your life.
That's why you want to learn todelegate.
You want to take parts of yourwork that others can do and give
it to other people.
If somebody can do the job 50%as well as you can, two of them
can do it as well as you can.
(19:21):
So train people and delegatethings out so that you can
continue training.
Don't let things step in yourway and keep you from doing your
job.
Henry Ford said obstacles arethose frightful things you see
when you take your eyes off yourgoal.
So don't look at why it won'twork.
Look at why it will work, andwork at training other people to
(19:46):
carry forward the message, tostart more churches and to get
the job done for Jesus Christ.
Well, let me give you the lastof the dangers that I wanted to
mention today, and that ismisaligned expectations.
You know, sometimes mentorshonestly believe they're
(20:09):
building a coworker andsomebody's going to help them
and somebody's going to be intheir ministry, when they need
to realize that they're buildinga person that's going to move
off and leave them.
And sometimes mentees thinkyou're going to take them under
your wing and give themeverything they need and they
don't want to pay the price tolift up and do things, and so
(20:31):
it's a mismatch all the wayaround and it leads to great
disappointment.
It can lead to fussing andfighting and arguing and
disagreements, and that's notwhat we want to have happen in
the ministry.
So Dale Carnegie said the onlyway to get the best of an
argument is to avoid it.
(20:52):
Isn't that so true?
So I say all this to you todayto say mentoring is dangerous,
it's hard, it's scary.
You can make friends, but youcan lose friends.
People can say you're usingthem and abusing them.
(21:12):
It's always so funny.
The one guy who looks at themand says everything you're doing
is the right thing, you'redoing great, even though he
knows it's not true.
And that guy's loved and if youtake enough care about them and
love them enough and say tothem no, actually this is
something you're doing wrong.
Let me help you with it.
You may lose a friend.
I want you to know that it'sdangerous because you're opening
(21:36):
up your heart, you're openingup your mind, you're being
transparent and you're beingvulnerable and you're letting
someone else into your life.
They're seeing the inside,they're seeing the real you.
They're seeing what happensinside of you.
They know you and that'sdangerous, isn't it?
(21:56):
If they want to, they'll hurtyou.
They know you and that'sdangerous, isn't it?
If they want to, they'll hurtyou and they may.
So that's one of the dangers,but it's well worth the risk.
It's still dangerous to be amentor.
It's dangerous because theycould kiss you and turn you over
to be killed, like they didJesus.
It's dangerous because theycould be like Korah and say who
(22:18):
made you the big shot over us?
And God had to protect Moses.
There was no other way.
It could be dangerous, like itwas with Paul, when some of his
own people turned against him,and he literally calls their
name out in public and inwriting, saying that they're
wrong.
So I want you to know it'sdangerous, but I want you to
(22:40):
know it's well worth it.
I want you to know that Iwouldn't trade it.
I wouldn't go back.
You'll be misunderstood, you'llbe hurt.
You'll hurt people, but if youhelp them do more for Jesus than
they've ever done before, it'llbe far worth the effort.
(23:01):
It's really what it's all about.
It's about you teaching othersto do great things for God.
So don't you let the dangerstand in your way.
Step out and do something.
Now.
I want to thank you forlistening.
I hope that I'm adding value.
I really work at making thispodcast a blessing to you.
(23:22):
I really do.
I may not be doing a good jobof it, but I promise you I feel
like God wants me to do it and Ifeel like I'm doing the best I
can, and I'm working at gettingbetter at it every day.
I don't mind you telling me.
You know this would help addthis to it.
Change this.
I'd be more than happy tolisten to you because I want to
do the best job I can do for thecause of Jesus Christ.
(23:44):
There's a world dying and goingto hell, and very few people
are that worried about worldevangelism.
But we are, aren't we?
And so I want to challenge youto do more to get the gospel
message of Jesus Christ aroundthe world.
Thank you for taking the timeto listen.
Thank you for praying for me.
This is the World EvangelismPodcast.
I'm your host, w Austin Gardner, and I am very blessed to have
(24:08):
this chance to be with you.
Thank you.
Welcome back to the World Evangelism Podcast.
It's another special edition.
I'm talking to you aboutmentoring, which is something
very dear to my heart.
I've tried to go throughdifferent stages of it, just
kind of taking our time workingour way through what it means to
mentor.
(00:22):
We've talked about what it isand we've talked about how to
prepare for it.
We've talked about some of thethings that might make you
hesitate and not think that youcould or should or can be a
mentor.
Today I come to the mostdangerous part of all.
I want to talk to you about thedangers of mentoring.
I want you to know that, inblunt honesty, being a mentor is
(00:47):
quite dangerous.
It's risky, it's a step outthere, and so people will want
to enter into a mentorrelationship with you.
But you don't know why and, tobe honest, as I talk to you, I
may not know why you want toenter in to a mentoring
(01:08):
relationship.
Jp Morgan famously said a manalways has two reasons for doing
anything a good reason and thereal reason.
A good reason and the realreason.
And so why are you wanting tomentor?
I hope it is because youbelieve that it's what 2 Timothy
(01:30):
2 tells you to do.
Take that that you've heardfrom the Bible and men of God
among many faithful witnessesand to find other faithful men
that you can commit it to, thatthey would be able to teach
others, and so we can continuegetting the gospel message to
the world.
Too many are unique.
(01:52):
They have learned how to doministry in a very special way.
They can write books, they canpreach sermons, they can build
churches, but they can't trainanyone else.
They're not imitatable.
They're just too big for that,and so I want to challenge you
to be a mentor, and, as youthink about being a mentee, by
(02:12):
the way, all of us should alwaysbe involved in mentoring and
being mentored.
None of us have ever reachedthe place where we know
everything, and I hope wecontinue growing all of our
lives.
Now, as we talk about mentoringand we talk about the ministry,
I love this quote.
The most dangerous leadershipmyth is that leaders are born,
(02:38):
that there is a genetic factorto leadership.
That's nonsense.
In fact, the opposite is trueLeaders are made rather than
born.
That's Warren Bennis who madethat comment.
I think there's a lot of truthto that.
I know that far more than youwould ever dream.
You were meant to lead and youcan lead and you are already
(03:04):
leading.
I think it's a fair statementto say that all of can lead and
you are already leading.
I think it's a fair statementto say that all of us are
leaders to some degree or other.
We lead ourselves and we leadour families, and we lead our
loved ones and we lead our verybest friends.
So we're leaders in our ownright.
But can I name some dangers foryou?
Let's just chew the fat just alittle while.
(03:24):
Let's just talk about it.
You see, one is what is oftenreferred to as being burnt out.
Burning out, the mentor becomesdepleted.
People are asking so much andthey want to learn so much, and
you give and you give and yougive until your effectiveness
(03:47):
diminishes because you're doingso much giving.
Now I want to stop right thereand say that you want a
mentor-mentee relationship wherethey want it so much that they
are nearly just almost suckingthe life out of you, and that's
why you need a mentor.
That's why you need to alwaysbe learning to teach others.
(04:09):
So I'm listening to Paul myname's Timothy I'm listening to
Paul learning from Paul, and I'mteaching others that are
teaching others.
It's a chain and even after youmay say I don't have.
You know, the great leader JohnMaxwell is always quoting people
he's learning from.
He is undisputably the greatestleadership expert on the planet
(04:34):
today Written more books,spoken to more people about
leadership, and yet he's alwayslearning.
So you've got to stretchyourself, you've got to have a
mentor.
Got to stretch yourself, yougot to have a mentor.
You can get mentors by thepeople you surround yourself
with, the books you read, theplaces you go, the podcasts you
listen to.
But you can never quit growingbecause you've always got to be
(04:56):
knowing so you can keep giving.
There's no real living withoutgiving and no growing without
knowing, and so you're going tohave to work hard at that.
Don't be burnt out, don't letit burn you out.
Now let me just say a word tothe mentee, but also to the
mentor, and that is Bernard Shawmade the comment beware of
(05:19):
false knowledge, it's moredangerous than ignorance.
And boy isn't that true.
So often when you're helping aguy, he has to unlearn.
He has to unlearn before he canlearn.
It's amazing.
I've been dealing withmissionaries for a long time,
and when they're brand new,starting deputation, they don't
(05:42):
know anything and they'rebegging for help.
But once they get a littlesupport and people start looking
up to them, they begin to get areally high and mighty feeling.
And now it's time to learn thelanguage.
And they just don't had one manlook at me and say that culture
shock was for carnal Christiansand he would never deal with it
.
And then I saw him run off upthe hill, sit under a tree and
(06:04):
cry like a baby.
I saw another one throw hisbook at the teacher language
school book at the teacher.
In other words, knowing toomuch can be dangerous.
You want to keep a learner'sattitude.
You want to not be caught up inknowing too much.
Great mentors are oftenoverwhelmed by the demand of
(06:28):
their mentees.
It seems like they never canmatch the need and I'd just like
to say to you you're only thereas a guide, you're not the big
teacher.
That's the Holy Spirit's job,that's the Word of God, and you
don't need to have all theanswers, but you need to know
(06:50):
how to find the answers.
And you don't have to knoweverything, but you ought to be
able to point them to someonethat can help them.
Other people, the Bible,whatever needs to be done to
help them learn and rememberthis they ought to aim as high
as they possibly can.
They ought to have the greatestamount of dreams possible.
(07:12):
Michelangelo said the greatestdanger for most of us is not
that our aim is too high and wemiss it, but that it's too low
and we reach it.
So help them reach for thestars to accomplish all that God
would have them, to Help themdream of very big things that
God might use them to do.
(07:32):
Now then another danger youknow we've got the danger of
burning out.
We've got the danger of beingovercommitted.
I am currently mentoringseveral young men in different
countries than Latin America,and I have to put a cap on it
because I know I can only takeso much giving without some time
(07:52):
to refresh and recuperate andbe ready for the next time.
Between the Society of Mentorsand doing this podcast and then
working right now with aboutnine different people.
That's pretty well going tokeep me hopping, I feel like.
But another danger is the poormatch, and that is that we're
(08:13):
not matched up together.
There's ineffectivecommunication and the
relationship is challengedbecause we're not matched up
together.
There's ineffectivecommunication and the
relationship is challengedbecause we're just not the kind
of people that really want towork together.
Maybe our personalities don'tgel, maybe you are threatened by
the mentee's reluctance or theway they act like or don't act
(08:35):
like they're listening.
I often say this and I'll repeatit to you again you got to get
past the skin and get past thesin and see the real person.
You got to get to the insideand see who they are, and so a
mismatch can happen.
It can happen because theydon't want what you have to give
(08:57):
, or you don't have what theywant you to give to them.
It could be because you havedifferent goals.
You know, I knew, and I knoweven now, that my goal was
always to train people, to trainpeople.
So my real goal wasn't soulwinning.
That doesn't mean we don'tbelieve in soul winning and
practice it.
It just means that I wanted totrain somebody not to be a soul
(09:20):
winner, not to be a Sundayschool teacher, not even to be a
pastor, but I want to trainpeople, to train others, so we
can make a big difference.
And so I would just say to youlook at it and make sure that
you've got a match.
Now remember this mentorsstretch the minds of their
mentees.
They help people grow.
(09:40):
Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr said Amind that is stretched by a new
experience can never go back toits old dimensions.
So once you learn and stretch,boy, that's one of the greatest
things about learning anotherlanguage, crossing a cultural
barrier, traveling to othercountries, meeting new people is
it stretches you.
(10:02):
If you get out of the cocoon,you may find that you can fly
like the butterfly instead ofliving like the worm, all
wrapped up in the cocoon.
God has big plans for you and Idon't want to see you miss
those plans.
That leads me to another danger, and that danger is a lack of
(10:23):
clarity of the mentor-menteerelationship, and that could
confuse so many people and causea strain.
Sometimes you think you'rementoring, but they think you're
their friend.
You think you're mentoring, butthey think you're their friend.
You think you're mentoring, butthey think you're their friend.
You know they think you're justgiving your opinion.
(10:46):
They didn't come to you withthe attitude and the heart of
I'm here to learn from you.
Over the years I have dealtwith so many different people.
I had one young missionary sayto me one time who elected you
as the leader here, and I said,oh, getting here 10 years before
any of you did maybe hadsomething to do with it.
No one else was here and thathappened to make me the leader.
(11:09):
Then he asked me why wecouldn't reelect leaders and
maybe he could be leader oneyear.
So there's this attitude thatthey, you know, they don't know
what's going on.
There's a confusion about thisrelationship.
So you want to have a littlebit of clear discussion and talk
.
You know, if you're going tocoach and you're going to mentor
(11:29):
, they might ought to understandthat that's what's happening as
you're doing that.
So let's just say that if youdon't make it clear, somebody's
going to get confused.
You don't have to be ugly aboutit, but they need to understand
.
I'm here to help you.
Now I want to say this to youright now, before I go any
(11:50):
further they're only going touse you until they learn what
they need to learn and they'removing on.
They're not moving in to becomeyour friend.
They're not moving in to becomea part of your family.
They are being mentored.
So they want to be able to walkaway and go do their own thing.
There's nothing wrong with that.
(12:12):
You can't get angry, you can'tget upset.
You've just got to let thathappen.
Now, boy, there's some learningstagnation.
That's a major danger.
Just because you're ahead ofthe curve doesn't mean that you
are still learning and movingand growing fast enough.
(12:33):
Different people grow atdifferent speeds and growing
fast enough.
Different people grow atdifferent speeds and so, if
you're not careful, you willreach a plateau and you'll quit
growing.
That's why you need a mentor.
You need a mentor to help youcontinue to grow and you need to
be mentoring to help themcontinue to grow.
You need a personal growth plan.
You don't want to have a planwhere you go to.
(12:56):
You want to have a plan whereyou grow to.
You want to have a plan whereyou grow to.
That's a John Maxwell thing,but it's so very, so, very, very
true.
So you want to always begrowing.
How many books are you reading?
How many podcasts are youlistening to?
Who are you seeking out to helpyou grow, so that you know more
this year than you knew lastyear?
(13:16):
As you can help people as theycontinue to grow, you're going
to have to realize that peoplegrow quickly and they'll catch
up to you.
You know, when you think aboutit, it takes about 18 years for
your children to reach what wewould call adulthood in the
United States of America.
But within a few years they'llbe parents and, honestly, you'll
(13:39):
kind of get shifted to the backseat.
You'll become a grandparent.
It's a nice way of sayingyou're off the stage, you're not
the main feature here, you'renot in charge anymore.
They've grown and caught youand that doesn't mean they know
as much as you do.
But in the mentoring worldyou've got to keep growing.
If you want them to, you've gotto keep proving that God's
(14:03):
using you and you have somethingto teach them.
Now they need well-endangeredyou don't have well-defined
objectives so that you candeliver the desired outcome you
see it needs to be.
I know how to help you,whatever.
Raise your support.
Or I know how to help you learna language.
(14:23):
I know how to help you crosscultural boundaries.
I know how to help you get achurch started.
I know how to help you learnhow to study.
So you've got to have in yourmind these clear, defined
outcomes.
And then you've got to have inyour mind these clear, defined
outcomes and then you've got torealize that they're going to
basically graduate from yourprogram.
(14:43):
They're going to move on to doother things greater and bigger
than what you have in mind rightnow.
Now danger is becomingdisengaged.
You know you can get a littlebit discouraged.
You can be like man I don'tthink they're listening to me
and they think you're notshowing that you care.
(15:04):
And there's thismisunderstanding going on.
You think you're showing loveand respect and they think that
they are being ignored and so itundermines the whole
effectiveness of the program.
So you've got to work atkeeping good communication.
You've got to work at keepingthings on a plane where you can
both talk and you can learn andgrow.
(15:25):
Otherwise you'll slowly driftapart and you'll wonder if there
was ever anything going onthere.
Let me just pause here to throwin a quote.
I think it's wonderful.
It says Arthur C Clarke saidthe only way to discover the
limits of the possible is to gobeyond them into the impossible.
(15:46):
Can you imagine what wouldhappen if you trained as many
people as you could train andthey trained as many people as
they could train?
We could change the world.
I remember years ago hearingthe first time about some major
discipleship, not minor stufflike we do in churches with new
(16:07):
believers, but where Dawson,trotman and the Navigator said
if you take one man and trainone man for a year and he
becomes pretty much equal to you, and the two of you train the
next year two people until theybecome pretty much equal to you,
and then four, and then eight,then 16, then 32, and then 64,
(16:27):
it's almost impossible toimagine what could happen as we
train people.
Now, if you're going to have amentor-mentee relationship, a
danger is not takingresponsibility, not being any
accountability.
So you know, I have it set upwith the guys I'm teaching that
(16:49):
if they miss three times, I'mgoing to take them out of my
program.
Now this is being done by Zoomand I've got a lot of people
waiting in line.
But you know it has to be.
I'm serious about this, it hasto be.
I will do the work.
So for a long time I've taughtthis.
What you want to do is take theball and put it in your court.
See, you can't make a personlearn and grow.
(17:13):
You know you can lead a horseto water, learn and grow.
You know you can lead a horseto water, but you can't make him
drink.
So what you do, what I like todo, is I like to give a
responsibility, give anopportunity and see if they
respond.
If they respond, they give itback to me.
So it's like I put the ball intheir court.
They return the ball to me, Ireturn the ball bigger, with
(17:33):
more responsibility, and we keepdoing that until, all of a
sudden, we're in thisrelationship.
Please remember you're nottrying to mentor people that are
on the same level as you.
I mean, if both of you arefirst year administrators, you
both probably need to bestudents together.
But if one of you is way downthe road and one of you is
learning the language and one ofyou is planted at one church or
(17:56):
multiple churches, that changesthat.
But you both got to takeresponsibility.
I've got to take responsibilityto say I'm going to keep
learning, I'm going to keepreaching out, I'm going to keep
showing interest.
The mentees got to takeresponsibility to say I'm going
to respond and listen and beready.
I love what Mark Twain saidit's not the size of the dog in
(18:19):
the fight, but it's the size ofthe fight in the dog.
So isn't that the truth?
So let's find people with ahunger and a passion and a
desire and a fight to get thegospel out Now.
Dangers, time constraints youknow, when you're a very busy
church planting, leader training, missionary time can get away
(18:40):
from you and you can't find thetime.
That's why I suggest,especially when you're on the
field together, that you neverdo anything by yourself.
Go together to do stuff.
Let them walk with you, letthem watch you do it, listen to
you do it, see, you do it.
Let them slowly imitate whatyou do.
Then let them take over and dowhat you do.
(19:01):
But you know time is going tobe something you wrestle with
all your life.
That's why you want to learn todelegate.
You want to take parts of yourwork that others can do and give
it to other people.
If somebody can do the job 50%as well as you can, two of them
can do it as well as you can.
(19:21):
So train people and delegatethings out so that you can
continue training.
Don't let things step in yourway and keep you from doing your
job.
Henry Ford said obstacles arethose frightful things you see
when you take your eyes off yourgoal.
So don't look at why it won'twork.
Look at why it will work, andwork at training other people to
(19:46):
carry forward the message, tostart more churches and to get
the job done for Jesus Christ.
Well, let me give you the lastof the dangers that I wanted to
mention today, and that ismisaligned expectations.
You know, sometimes mentorshonestly believe they're
(20:09):
building a coworker andsomebody's going to help them
and somebody's going to be intheir ministry, when they need
to realize that they're buildinga person that's going to move
off and leave them.
And sometimes mentees thinkyou're going to take them under
your wing and give themeverything they need and they
don't want to pay the price tolift up and do things, and so
(20:31):
it's a mismatch all the wayaround and it leads to great
disappointment.
It can lead to fussing andfighting and arguing and
disagreements, and that's notwhat we want to have happen in
the ministry.
So Dale Carnegie said the onlyway to get the best of an
argument is to avoid it.
(20:52):
Isn't that so true?
So I say all this to you todayto say mentoring is dangerous,
it's hard, it's scary.
You can make friends, but youcan lose friends.
People can say you're usingthem and abusing them.
(21:12):
It's always so funny.
The one guy who looks at themand says everything you're doing
is the right thing, you'redoing great, even though he
knows it's not true.
And that guy's loved and if youtake enough care about them and
love them enough and say tothem no, actually this is
something you're doing wrong.
Let me help you with it.
You may lose a friend.
I want you to know that it'sdangerous because you're opening
(21:36):
up your heart, you're openingup your mind, you're being
transparent and you're beingvulnerable and you're letting
someone else into your life.
They're seeing the inside,they're seeing the real you.
They're seeing what happensinside of you.
They know you and that'sdangerous, isn't it?
(21:56):
If they want to, they'll hurtyou.
They know you and that'sdangerous, isn't it?
If they want to, they'll hurtyou and they may.
So that's one of the dangers,but it's well worth the risk.
It's still dangerous to be amentor.
It's dangerous because theycould kiss you and turn you over
to be killed, like they didJesus.
It's dangerous because theycould be like Korah and say who
(22:18):
made you the big shot over us?
And God had to protect Moses.
There was no other way.
It could be dangerous, like itwas with Paul, when some of his
own people turned against him,and he literally calls their
name out in public and inwriting, saying that they're
wrong.
So I want you to know it'sdangerous, but I want you to
(22:40):
know it's well worth it.
I want you to know that Iwouldn't trade it.
I wouldn't go back.
You'll be misunderstood, you'llbe hurt.
You'll hurt people, but if youhelp them do more for Jesus than
they've ever done before, it'llbe far worth the effort.
(23:01):
It's really what it's all about.
It's about you teaching othersto do great things for God.
So don't you let the dangerstand in your way.
Step out and do something.
Now.
I want to thank you forlistening.
I hope that I'm adding value.
I really work at making thispodcast a blessing to you.
(23:22):
I really do.
I may not be doing a good jobof it, but I promise you I feel
like God wants me to do it and Ifeel like I'm doing the best I
can, and I'm working at gettingbetter at it every day.
I don't mind you telling me.
You know this would help addthis to it.
Change this.
I'd be more than happy tolisten to you because I want to
do the best job I can do for thecause of Jesus Christ.
(23:44):
There's a world dying and goingto hell, and very few people
are that worried about worldevangelism.
But we are, aren't we?
And so I want to challenge youto do more to get the gospel
message of Jesus Christ aroundthe world.
Thank you for taking the timeto listen.
Thank you for praying for me.
This is the World EvangelismPodcast.
I'm your host, w Austin Gardner, and I am very blessed to have
(24:08):
this chance to be with you.
Thank you.
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