October 31, 2025 • 17 mins
The heat of Jesus’ public life wasn’t condemnation but redemption that actually changes people and communities! Luke 19:1-10 teaches us that every sinner has a future and every sinner has a past. Zacchaeus’, a corrupt tax collector, turnaround begins when Jesus comes near to him and shares a table. turnaround in Luke 19 as a living case study. The scandal isn’t just that Jesus notices a corrupt tax collector; it’s that he moves toward him, shares a table, and sparks real repair. That grace and mercy extended created a future for Zacchaeus and his community.
In this episode, Melissa and Bishop Wright have a conversation about redemption. They name the hard part: communities often resist grace. It’s easier to exile than to accompany, to watch from a distance than to risk relationship. They discuss the tension between telling the truth about harm and still seeing the person as more than their deed, a distinction that keeps justice honest and mercy strong. Listen in for the full conversation.
Read For Faith, the companion devotional.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bishop Wright (00:00):
We are better than our worst day.
And so in God, somehow, God canuse and stirs all up in a big
bowl and can use that.
And so I think that's what Iwant to highlight.
And I think that's why I saythat Jesus' politics, our
redemption.
You know, Jesus seems to thinkas he talks and preaches and
does his walking around ministryin uh in Galilee that you and I
(00:23):
can turn around, that alignmentwith the divine is possible for
any of us, for all of us, andthat new life can spring out.
Melissa (00:40):
Welcome to For People with Bishop Rob Wright.
I'm Melissa Rau, your host, andthis is a conversation inspired
by For Faith, a weekly devotionsent out every Friday.
You can find a link to thisweek's For Faith and a link to
subscribe in the episode'sdescription.
So Bishop has been framing hisdevotions through the lens of
what we believe.
And today we're talking abouthow we believe every sinner has
(01:04):
a future.
Bishop Wright (01:06):
That's right, that's right.
We believe every sinner has afuture.
We also believe every saint hashad a past.
In both statements, I believeyou can see God's fingerprints.
If Jesus was political, hispolitics were and are
redemption.
That's the source of our hope,personally, relationally, and
(01:27):
societally.
We believe because of the mercyof God lived out enigmatically
in Jesus, we are not trapped inour misunderstandings and our
misdeeds.
Look at Zacchaeus' turnaround,a tax collector, a colluder with
the oppressor.
He got wealthy on the backs ofhis own people.
(01:48):
But Jesus brings him nearwithout condition, and it's a
scandal.
But that grace and mercyextended, created a future for
Zacchaeus and his community.
Melissa (02:02):
Yeah, you can find that story in Luke chapter 19,
verses 1 through 10.
But Bishop, the big questionthat I've got, and I'm hoping
you can speak into, is what evenwhat even is redemption?
Bishop Wright (02:14):
Oh my gosh.
Well, I mean, quite literally,it is to be bought, you know,
bought back, bought, you know,bought out, um, to be redeemed,
rescued, saved, pulled back fromthe precipice, all of that.
I mean, all those wonderfulwords and ideas.
And so, you know, my point hereis that, uh, and I think it's
(02:36):
critical to remember uh that uhin Jesus' economy, uh every
every sinner can have a future,right?
You're not damned, you're notwalled off, you're not buried,
that no matter how how much andhow how much, how often you have
missed the mark, um, there's away out, there's a possibility,
(02:56):
there's a way back, secondchance, third chance, fifteenth
chance, nineteenth chance.
It's amazing God's patience.
It's amazing God's love, it'samazing God's mercy.
And I think since we arethinking about the saints of the
church now uh, you know, thisweek, I think it's important to
say also that every saint hashad a past.
(03:17):
Right?
So the men and women that wevenerate uh and are deserving of
veneration, lifting up aspotlight on how they have
inspired us to live morally andethically, I think we should
remember that none of them wereany elite spiritual
superathletes, that all of themwere flesh and blood, all of
them fall short just like we wedo and we have.
(03:40):
And so there's this wonderfulum tension in God, uh a
delightful tension in God, thatall things are possible with
God.
Uh we are we are better thanour worst day, uh, and our our
best days are made up uh in manyways of the ingredients of our
worst days.
Uh and so in God, somehow Godcan use and stirs all up in a
(04:02):
big bowl uh and can use that.
Uh and so I think that's what Iwant to highlight.
And I think that's why I saythat Jesus' politics, our
redemption.
Um, you know, Jesus seems tothink uh as he talks and
preaches and does his walkingaround ministry uh in uh in
Galilee, uh, that uh you and Ican turn around, uh, that
(04:25):
alignment with the divine ispossible for any of us, for all
of us, and that new life uh canspring out.
Melissa (04:31):
I love that.
You know, I've got so muchimagery going on in my mind
right now.
I'm thinking of that sillylittle song, Tacius was a wee
little man.
You know that one?
Everybody knows a wife.
Anyway, I just I I keepthinking about the fact that
Jesus, and we're called intothis, by the way.
It's not just Jesus.
We're called to see people asworthy even before the
(04:55):
redeeming.
They're redeemable beforethey've done anything, right?
So I think of Zacchaeus up inthat tree, a tax collector who
must have had so much shamebecause he knew what he was
doing.
He knew he was taking advantageof his own people, and and yet
he was still curious about thisguy, Jesus.
And so when Jesus passes andlooks up and sees Zacchaeus,
(05:17):
sees Zacchaeus's curiosity, hecalls him down and treats him
like the human being that he isalready.
And I can't help but wonder ifthat is what brought Zacchaeus
into that redeeming way, uhsimply because Jesus didn't look
away, uh and gave him theopportunity so that Zacchaeus
(05:40):
already had worth.
Bishop Wright (05:42):
Yeah.
Yeah, and and Jesus points thisout, and and I want you to
notice in that story, it's thecommunity that doesn't dig that,
right?
The community is not happy, thefact that Jesus saw him, heard
him, and then welcomed him,right?
And so, and so I think what'salso operative in this story is
the tension that we have withJesus' approach to redemption,
(06:05):
right?
And so uh some of us, many ofus perhaps, harbor a hardness of
heart.
Uh, and it may come out ofwound, it may come out of
judgment, it may come out ofwanting to be punitive, but we
just notice that Jesus doesn't.
Um, Jesus doesn't lambast him,doesn't scold him, doesn't
finger wag at him.
Jesus knows full well who heis, what he is, what he's done.
(06:27):
And yet that does not stop himfrom welcoming uh Zacchaeus.
Um and he sees Zacchaeus, butwhat he sees, which is
interesting, what he sees is notone who has fallen so low that
he can't get up, right?
And uh what the community sees,and we understand the hurt that
he's probably caused in thecommunity, he has been an agent
(06:50):
of abuse in the community, andwe don't know how long he's been
that thing.
But Jesus walks right into thesituation, sees him, hears him,
speaks to him, and then welcomeshim down.
Maybe Zacchaeus thought thatuh, given his history, uh, that
up in a tree far away was uh asas close as he could get to the
(07:10):
divine.
And so there's that other pointthere is that God can see us uh
closer to God than we can seeourselves uh close to God.
And that challenges our imageof who God is, right?
You know, the high and liftedup uh bends over backwards to
get close to us even when we'restill in the mud pit.
(07:30):
Um, and that's a picture ofredemption.
You know, Desmond Tutu uh tellsthat wonderful story about uh,
you know, Jesus the goodshepherd.
Uh, you know, he doesn't, we weportray him in stained glass
and in architecture as Jesus whogoes after the fluffy little
lamb who, because of theirinnocence, is lost and they're
just cute and fluffy.
(07:52):
And there comes Jesus, youknow, who looks like he's from
Scandinavia.
There comes Jesus who bringsback the little lamb to the fold
when actually uh little lambsdon't stray far from their
mommies.
It's the obstrupuous ones, hesays.
It's the uh it's the it's thesort of um the arrogant ones who
(08:12):
want to go their way, who wantto depart the flock, who want to
leave a shepherd behind, whoend up in in the mud with their
uh with their coats torn uh andin stinky water and smelling to
high heaven.
That is the one that theshepherd leaves the 99 fluffy
ones for and goes after.
And so if that is true, I thinkDesmond Tutu has given us such
(08:35):
a great image, then Zacchaeus'sstory makes all the sense in the
world.
You know, the Samaritan womanwith the checkered past, uh,
Zacchaeus, Matthew, the taxcollector, and on and on and on
and on.
Uh, what's interesting uh isthat the community uh stays
reluctant to embrace theredeemed.
And uh I think that's somethingwe have to think through.
(08:58):
Now, we stay reluctant uh untilit's us who is redeemed, right?
Once we are, and then of courseJesus tells the story about
that bifurcation, right?
So it's cool for you to beredeemed, you just don't want
everybody else to be redeemed,right?
And forgiven.
And so I, you know, we have toconfront that.
And these stories uh inscripture are worth their weight
(09:20):
in platinum because they theykeep us in, I think, a tension
that we need to be in.
Um, because it's easy for thechurch, I think, sometimes, uh
to find to think of itself asthe group of the good people and
the group of the perfectpeople.
And when I think our ad valueto the world uh is the group of
(09:43):
people who come together whohave all fallen, and that's what
we have in common.
We've all fallen, right?
We've all been Zacchaeus in oneway or the other, all been
duplicitous uh or worse in oneway or the other.
And so when we keep that infront of us, not because we're
bad, but that we've beenredeemed, that this is a
(10:04):
community of the redeemed, thenI think we actually have
something to offer people.
Um, and so we're in a perpetualbattle with our own egos.
Uh, and so these kinds ofstories continue to pry our
hearts open and remind us thatwe've all been Zuchaus uh on one
day or the other.
Melissa (10:43):
Yeah, and it doesn't it's not lost on me that the
church has done a really greatjob of um I think the shame
game.
And something stuck out to mewhen you were just talking,
Bishop, is that it's not thatwe're redeemed and then go to
church and stay redeemed.
Oftentimes we fall back and welapse and need redemption again,
(11:03):
right?
And again.
And so the shame cycle canoften interrupt that community.
Bishop Wright (11:11):
Yeah, and and what we again we don't want is
shame to have the last word,right?
Um you know, I I think this iswhy the faith is so important,
the words of Jesus, the storiesof Jesus, because they give us
something to say back to theseimpulses, to think that I'm
nothing, to think that I'm bad.
Um, and you know, as I've saidbefore, what we need to do, a
(11:31):
better thing to do would be toadopt Jesus' words uh about who
we are, right?
And so I am redeemed.
You are redeemed.
Uh, I'm in constant need ofredemption.
I am not quite what I'm gonnabe, but I ain't what I was.
I'm on a journey of grace.
Uh, thank God for God's mercyin my life.
Uh, thank God who uh for peoplewho've come in my life who have
(11:54):
reminded me that I can get up,that I can turn around, um, that
I'm better than my worst deedor day.
Uh thank God for those peopleinspired by these stories uh
like the one we're talking abouttoday.
And so it's a community projectthat we do.
And uh it's important uh toremember this because I think
even in the modern church, Imean, I've been a bishop now,
(12:15):
I'm in my 14th year, and it'sinteresting to see how the
church has developed around thisidea.
Uh, and in some places, um, onewonders what kind of church
have we become?
Um, where we're so titillatedby sin uh and uh and forgotten
that we're supposed to be thechurch that uh continues to stay
in relationship with peopleeven though they fall.
(12:38):
Uh I have been in situations inthe church uh where uh people
who have fallen publicly uh, youknow, are uh are anathema.
They are cast into the outerdarkness.
And it's it's hard to know,it's hard to um it's hard to be
in those moments and to think,uh, you know, are we the church
of the prodigal son?
(12:59):
Are we the church of Zacchaeusnow, or are we something else?
Um and so if we are uh hostileto sinners, then then perhaps we
are not the church of JesusChrist.
Uh and so we've got to makesure that we stay in our lane
and remember our founding, uh,our founding DNA.
Now, uh when we've fallen insometimes publicly, yeah, you
(13:22):
may lose the responsibility orthe role of authority.
Of course, I understand that.
Uh, but it doesn't mean youlose your status as a member of
the body of Christ, right?
And it doesn't mean that now wecastigate sinners or we we we
put you in the cone of silenceuh as sinners.
And I as I look around thechurch, lots of different
(13:43):
churches, my own church, uh,we've got to do better in this
regard.
We've got to go the extra mileuh to make the distinction
between the deed and the soul.
So this the the deed was is thedeed is no good.
Uh the deed may even haveharmed the community.
We've got to say that uh with awith you know with a clear with
(14:04):
clear words, and at the sametime, you know, we've got to
continue to live in the tensionuh that Jesus' example sets up
for us, which is though you havefallen, uh you are still my
sibling.
Melissa (14:17):
Can you speak more into that whole responsibility
thing?
Because I do think sometimespeople get confused and it's
like when we mess up, we we gotto take responsibility.
And sometimes that meanslosing, I don't want to say
status, because it's not aboutstation or status, but
leadership.
If perhaps we as a leadermessed up big, is it punitive?
(14:39):
What is it?
What's it for?
Bishop Wright (14:41):
Well, I think that if we find that someone is
in a role of authority where thelayer ordained, um, and uh and
they have harmed the body ofChrist, right, with their
behaviors, I think it isappropriate that they lose that
role, right?
That they they lose thatauthority, right?
They have proven unworthy ofthat authority and of that role
(15:04):
for whatever reason.
Um, but I think the tightropewalk that we've got to pull off
is that while you've you'veyou've uh you don't deserve the
role anymore at this time, uh,you are nevertheless my sibling.
And so, you know, and so uh Ithink we don't do a good job
there.
And so what happens too oftenin the church, and I'm
(15:27):
specifically now talking aboutleaders in the church, um, is
that that person just goes intothe cone of silence.
Uh, they are not contacted, um,they're just sort of on an
island all by themselves.
And uh, I just think we can dobetter in figuring that out.
Uh, and it's it's twofold.
Uh the community uh doesn'tquite know what to do with you.
(15:47):
Uh, and then sometimes we uhcan't bear the shame of having
to look we who have fallen uhhave a hard time of bearing the
shame uh in the community.
And so we just find that it'seasier for everybody to just
disappear.
Uh however, uh that just livesin tension with Jesus' model,
right?
Uh he doesn't Jesus justdoesn't throw a blessing up to
(16:10):
the tree for Zacchaeus and keepwalking, right?
Or he doesn't just say, hey,Zacchaeus, uh, resign your
position.
He says, Hey, we're gonna havefellowship, table fellowship,
intimate.
I'm gonna bring you closer.
I bet there were some people inthe crowd who had lived
spotless lives, right?
Who had kept all the rules,have been good boys and good
girls.
And Jesus now wants to have ameal with this dude, right?
(16:33):
I mean, can you just imaginethe scandal, right?
And what he does is he sets himon a path, Zacchaeus.
That is, he sets him on a pathbecause he's been welcomed by
Jesus.
Now Zacchaeus feels deeply thathe wants to make reparations uh
to the community.
And it's because he's notdistance, because he's actually
brought close and he felt thewarmth of the love of God in the
(16:57):
community, you know, I imaginearound the table, that now he
wants to respond in kind.
So just to send people out,banish them, uh, I think also
defeats and works against theworks of reconciliation.
Melissa (17:11):
And that's not much of a future, and we believe that
every sinner has a future.
Bishop Wright (17:15):
Amen.
Thank God for that.
Melissa (17:18):
Amen.
Bishop, thank you so much.
And listeners, thank you forlistening to For People.
You can follow us on Instagramand Facebook at Bishop
Rob Wright, or by visitingwww.forpeople.digital.
Please subscribe, leave areview, and we'll be back with
you next week.
We are better than our worst day.
And so in God, somehow, God canuse and stirs all up in a big
bowl and can use that.
And so I think that's what Iwant to highlight.
And I think that's why I saythat Jesus' politics, our
redemption.
You know, Jesus seems to thinkas he talks and preaches and
does his walking around ministryin uh in Galilee that you and I
(00:23):
can turn around, that alignmentwith the divine is possible for
any of us, for all of us, andthat new life can spring out.
Melissa (00:40):
Welcome to For People with Bishop Rob Wright.
I'm Melissa Rau, your host, andthis is a conversation inspired
by For Faith, a weekly devotionsent out every Friday.
You can find a link to thisweek's For Faith and a link to
subscribe in the episode'sdescription.
So Bishop has been framing hisdevotions through the lens of
what we believe.
And today we're talking abouthow we believe every sinner has
(01:04):
a future.
Bishop Wright (01:06):
That's right, that's right.
We believe every sinner has afuture.
We also believe every saint hashad a past.
In both statements, I believeyou can see God's fingerprints.
If Jesus was political, hispolitics were and are
redemption.
That's the source of our hope,personally, relationally, and
(01:27):
societally.
We believe because of the mercyof God lived out enigmatically
in Jesus, we are not trapped inour misunderstandings and our
misdeeds.
Look at Zacchaeus' turnaround,a tax collector, a colluder with
the oppressor.
He got wealthy on the backs ofhis own people.
(01:48):
But Jesus brings him nearwithout condition, and it's a
scandal.
But that grace and mercyextended, created a future for
Zacchaeus and his community.
Melissa (02:02):
Yeah, you can find that story in Luke chapter 19,
verses 1 through 10.
But Bishop, the big questionthat I've got, and I'm hoping
you can speak into, is what evenwhat even is redemption?
Bishop Wright (02:14):
Oh my gosh.
Well, I mean, quite literally,it is to be bought, you know,
bought back, bought, you know,bought out, um, to be redeemed,
rescued, saved, pulled back fromthe precipice, all of that.
I mean, all those wonderfulwords and ideas.
And so, you know, my point hereis that, uh, and I think it's
(02:36):
critical to remember uh that uhin Jesus' economy, uh every
every sinner can have a future,right?
You're not damned, you're notwalled off, you're not buried,
that no matter how how much andhow how much, how often you have
missed the mark, um, there's away out, there's a possibility,
(02:56):
there's a way back, secondchance, third chance, fifteenth
chance, nineteenth chance.
It's amazing God's patience.
It's amazing God's love, it'samazing God's mercy.
And I think since we arethinking about the saints of the
church now uh, you know, thisweek, I think it's important to
say also that every saint hashad a past.
(03:17):
Right?
So the men and women that wevenerate uh and are deserving of
veneration, lifting up aspotlight on how they have
inspired us to live morally andethically, I think we should
remember that none of them wereany elite spiritual
superathletes, that all of themwere flesh and blood, all of
them fall short just like we wedo and we have.
(03:40):
And so there's this wonderfulum tension in God, uh a
delightful tension in God, thatall things are possible with
God.
Uh we are we are better thanour worst day, uh, and our our
best days are made up uh in manyways of the ingredients of our
worst days.
Uh and so in God, somehow Godcan use and stirs all up in a
(04:02):
big bowl uh and can use that.
Uh and so I think that's what Iwant to highlight.
And I think that's why I saythat Jesus' politics, our
redemption.
Um, you know, Jesus seems tothink uh as he talks and
preaches and does his walkingaround ministry uh in uh in
Galilee, uh, that uh you and Ican turn around, uh, that
(04:25):
alignment with the divine ispossible for any of us, for all
of us, and that new life uh canspring out.
Melissa (04:31):
I love that.
You know, I've got so muchimagery going on in my mind
right now.
I'm thinking of that sillylittle song, Tacius was a wee
little man.
You know that one?
Everybody knows a wife.
Anyway, I just I I keepthinking about the fact that
Jesus, and we're called intothis, by the way.
It's not just Jesus.
We're called to see people asworthy even before the
(04:55):
redeeming.
They're redeemable beforethey've done anything, right?
So I think of Zacchaeus up inthat tree, a tax collector who
must have had so much shamebecause he knew what he was
doing.
He knew he was taking advantageof his own people, and and yet
he was still curious about thisguy, Jesus.
And so when Jesus passes andlooks up and sees Zacchaeus,
(05:17):
sees Zacchaeus's curiosity, hecalls him down and treats him
like the human being that he isalready.
And I can't help but wonder ifthat is what brought Zacchaeus
into that redeeming way, uhsimply because Jesus didn't look
away, uh and gave him theopportunity so that Zacchaeus
(05:40):
already had worth.
Bishop Wright (05:42):
Yeah.
Yeah, and and Jesus points thisout, and and I want you to
notice in that story, it's thecommunity that doesn't dig that,
right?
The community is not happy, thefact that Jesus saw him, heard
him, and then welcomed him,right?
And so, and so I think what'salso operative in this story is
the tension that we have withJesus' approach to redemption,
(06:05):
right?
And so uh some of us, many ofus perhaps, harbor a hardness of
heart.
Uh, and it may come out ofwound, it may come out of
judgment, it may come out ofwanting to be punitive, but we
just notice that Jesus doesn't.
Um, Jesus doesn't lambast him,doesn't scold him, doesn't
finger wag at him.
Jesus knows full well who heis, what he is, what he's done.
(06:27):
And yet that does not stop himfrom welcoming uh Zacchaeus.
Um and he sees Zacchaeus, butwhat he sees, which is
interesting, what he sees is notone who has fallen so low that
he can't get up, right?
And uh what the community sees,and we understand the hurt that
he's probably caused in thecommunity, he has been an agent
(06:50):
of abuse in the community, andwe don't know how long he's been
that thing.
But Jesus walks right into thesituation, sees him, hears him,
speaks to him, and then welcomeshim down.
Maybe Zacchaeus thought thatuh, given his history, uh, that
up in a tree far away was uh asas close as he could get to the
(07:10):
divine.
And so there's that other pointthere is that God can see us uh
closer to God than we can seeourselves uh close to God.
And that challenges our imageof who God is, right?
You know, the high and liftedup uh bends over backwards to
get close to us even when we'restill in the mud pit.
(07:30):
Um, and that's a picture ofredemption.
You know, Desmond Tutu uh tellsthat wonderful story about uh,
you know, Jesus the goodshepherd.
Uh, you know, he doesn't, we weportray him in stained glass
and in architecture as Jesus whogoes after the fluffy little
lamb who, because of theirinnocence, is lost and they're
just cute and fluffy.
(07:52):
And there comes Jesus, youknow, who looks like he's from
Scandinavia.
There comes Jesus who bringsback the little lamb to the fold
when actually uh little lambsdon't stray far from their
mommies.
It's the obstrupuous ones, hesays.
It's the uh it's the it's thesort of um the arrogant ones who
(08:12):
want to go their way, who wantto depart the flock, who want to
leave a shepherd behind, whoend up in in the mud with their
uh with their coats torn uh andin stinky water and smelling to
high heaven.
That is the one that theshepherd leaves the 99 fluffy
ones for and goes after.
And so if that is true, I thinkDesmond Tutu has given us such
(08:35):
a great image, then Zacchaeus'sstory makes all the sense in the
world.
You know, the Samaritan womanwith the checkered past, uh,
Zacchaeus, Matthew, the taxcollector, and on and on and on
and on.
Uh, what's interesting uh isthat the community uh stays
reluctant to embrace theredeemed.
And uh I think that's somethingwe have to think through.
(08:58):
Now, we stay reluctant uh untilit's us who is redeemed, right?
Once we are, and then of courseJesus tells the story about
that bifurcation, right?
So it's cool for you to beredeemed, you just don't want
everybody else to be redeemed,right?
And forgiven.
And so I, you know, we have toconfront that.
And these stories uh inscripture are worth their weight
(09:20):
in platinum because they theykeep us in, I think, a tension
that we need to be in.
Um, because it's easy for thechurch, I think, sometimes, uh
to find to think of itself asthe group of the good people and
the group of the perfectpeople.
And when I think our ad valueto the world uh is the group of
(09:43):
people who come together whohave all fallen, and that's what
we have in common.
We've all fallen, right?
We've all been Zacchaeus in oneway or the other, all been
duplicitous uh or worse in oneway or the other.
And so when we keep that infront of us, not because we're
bad, but that we've beenredeemed, that this is a
(10:04):
community of the redeemed, thenI think we actually have
something to offer people.
Um, and so we're in a perpetualbattle with our own egos.
Uh, and so these kinds ofstories continue to pry our
hearts open and remind us thatwe've all been Zuchaus uh on one
day or the other.
Melissa (10:43):
Yeah, and it doesn't it's not lost on me that the
church has done a really greatjob of um I think the shame
game.
And something stuck out to mewhen you were just talking,
Bishop, is that it's not thatwe're redeemed and then go to
church and stay redeemed.
Oftentimes we fall back and welapse and need redemption again,
(11:03):
right?
And again.
And so the shame cycle canoften interrupt that community.
Bishop Wright (11:11):
Yeah, and and what we again we don't want is
shame to have the last word,right?
Um you know, I I think this iswhy the faith is so important,
the words of Jesus, the storiesof Jesus, because they give us
something to say back to theseimpulses, to think that I'm
nothing, to think that I'm bad.
Um, and you know, as I've saidbefore, what we need to do, a
(11:31):
better thing to do would be toadopt Jesus' words uh about who
we are, right?
And so I am redeemed.
You are redeemed.
Uh, I'm in constant need ofredemption.
I am not quite what I'm gonnabe, but I ain't what I was.
I'm on a journey of grace.
Uh, thank God for God's mercyin my life.
Uh, thank God who uh for peoplewho've come in my life who have
(11:54):
reminded me that I can get up,that I can turn around, um, that
I'm better than my worst deedor day.
Uh thank God for those peopleinspired by these stories uh
like the one we're talking abouttoday.
And so it's a community projectthat we do.
And uh it's important uh toremember this because I think
even in the modern church, Imean, I've been a bishop now,
(12:15):
I'm in my 14th year, and it'sinteresting to see how the
church has developed around thisidea.
Uh, and in some places, um, onewonders what kind of church
have we become?
Um, where we're so titillatedby sin uh and uh and forgotten
that we're supposed to be thechurch that uh continues to stay
in relationship with peopleeven though they fall.
(12:38):
Uh I have been in situations inthe church uh where uh people
who have fallen publicly uh, youknow, are uh are anathema.
They are cast into the outerdarkness.
And it's it's hard to know,it's hard to um it's hard to be
in those moments and to think,uh, you know, are we the church
of the prodigal son?
(12:59):
Are we the church of Zacchaeusnow, or are we something else?
Um and so if we are uh hostileto sinners, then then perhaps we
are not the church of JesusChrist.
Uh and so we've got to makesure that we stay in our lane
and remember our founding, uh,our founding DNA.
Now, uh when we've fallen insometimes publicly, yeah, you
(13:22):
may lose the responsibility orthe role of authority.
Of course, I understand that.
Uh, but it doesn't mean youlose your status as a member of
the body of Christ, right?
And it doesn't mean that now wecastigate sinners or we we we
put you in the cone of silenceuh as sinners.
And I as I look around thechurch, lots of different
(13:43):
churches, my own church, uh,we've got to do better in this
regard.
We've got to go the extra mileuh to make the distinction
between the deed and the soul.
So this the the deed was is thedeed is no good.
Uh the deed may even haveharmed the community.
We've got to say that uh with awith you know with a clear with
(14:04):
clear words, and at the sametime, you know, we've got to
continue to live in the tensionuh that Jesus' example sets up
for us, which is though you havefallen, uh you are still my
sibling.
Melissa (14:17):
Can you speak more into that whole responsibility
thing?
Because I do think sometimespeople get confused and it's
like when we mess up, we we gotto take responsibility.
And sometimes that meanslosing, I don't want to say
status, because it's not aboutstation or status, but
leadership.
If perhaps we as a leadermessed up big, is it punitive?
(14:39):
What is it?
What's it for?
Bishop Wright (14:41):
Well, I think that if we find that someone is
in a role of authority where thelayer ordained, um, and uh and
they have harmed the body ofChrist, right, with their
behaviors, I think it isappropriate that they lose that
role, right?
That they they lose thatauthority, right?
They have proven unworthy ofthat authority and of that role
(15:04):
for whatever reason.
Um, but I think the tightropewalk that we've got to pull off
is that while you've you'veyou've uh you don't deserve the
role anymore at this time, uh,you are nevertheless my sibling.
And so, you know, and so uh Ithink we don't do a good job
there.
And so what happens too oftenin the church, and I'm
(15:27):
specifically now talking aboutleaders in the church, um, is
that that person just goes intothe cone of silence.
Uh, they are not contacted, um,they're just sort of on an
island all by themselves.
And uh, I just think we can dobetter in figuring that out.
Uh, and it's it's twofold.
Uh the community uh doesn'tquite know what to do with you.
(15:47):
Uh, and then sometimes we uhcan't bear the shame of having
to look we who have fallen uhhave a hard time of bearing the
shame uh in the community.
And so we just find that it'seasier for everybody to just
disappear.
Uh however, uh that just livesin tension with Jesus' model,
right?
Uh he doesn't Jesus justdoesn't throw a blessing up to
(16:10):
the tree for Zacchaeus and keepwalking, right?
Or he doesn't just say, hey,Zacchaeus, uh, resign your
position.
He says, Hey, we're gonna havefellowship, table fellowship,
intimate.
I'm gonna bring you closer.
I bet there were some people inthe crowd who had lived
spotless lives, right?
Who had kept all the rules,have been good boys and good
girls.
And Jesus now wants to have ameal with this dude, right?
(16:33):
I mean, can you just imaginethe scandal, right?
And what he does is he sets himon a path, Zacchaeus.
That is, he sets him on a pathbecause he's been welcomed by
Jesus.
Now Zacchaeus feels deeply thathe wants to make reparations uh
to the community.
And it's because he's notdistance, because he's actually
brought close and he felt thewarmth of the love of God in the
(16:57):
community, you know, I imaginearound the table, that now he
wants to respond in kind.
So just to send people out,banish them, uh, I think also
defeats and works against theworks of reconciliation.
Melissa (17:11):
And that's not much of a future, and we believe that
every sinner has a future.
Bishop Wright (17:15):
Amen.
Thank God for that.
Melissa (17:18):
Amen.
Bishop, thank you so much.
And listeners, thank you forlistening to For People.
You can follow us on Instagramand Facebook at Bishop
Rob Wright, or by visitingwww.forpeople.digital.
Please subscribe, leave areview, and we'll be back with
you next week.
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