August 22, 2025 • 22 mins
What happens when our religious rules collide with human suffering? In Luke 13, Jesus heals a woman on the Sabbath despite religious opposition. Jesus' act models the need to push beyond the status quo.
In this episode, Melissa and Bishop Wright have a conversation that invites us to examine how our own spiritual boundaries might be limiting our capacity for compassion. "Why don't God's children have housing? Why isn't there equal access to medicine? Why don't God's children have a living wage in a wealthy country?" Bishop Wright's own questions challenge us to move beyond vertical adoration of God toward horizontal service to others. In a world overwhelmed by division and breaking news alerts, he offers a remedy: remembering who we are and whose we are. Listen in for the full conversation.
Read For Faith, the companion devotional.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bishop Wright (00:00):
Why don't God's children have housing?
Why isn't there equal access tomedicine?
Why don't God's children have aliving wage in a wealthy
country?
Why is there seemingly atolerance for Palestinians to
starve?
These gaps are before us all onthe macro and they're also
before us in the micro.
(00:20):
And the invitation here, Ithink in Jesus's words to us, is
if you believe in me, if youtrust me, trust that this is the
best way to live.
Melissa (00:40):
Welcome to For People with Bishop Rob Wright.
I'm Melissa Rau, your host, andthis is a conversation inspired
by For Faith, a weekly devotionsent out every Friday.
You can find a link to thisweek's For Faith and a link to
subscribe in the episode'sdescription.
Now, over the past couple ofweeks and this next season,
Bishop Wright is framing hisdevotions and our conversations
(01:02):
around the theme We Believe aswe make our way through the
lectionary.
Good morning, bishop.
Bishop Wright (01:09):
Good morning.
Melissa (01:10):
This week's devotion in we Believe is based off of Luke
, chapter 13, verses 10 through17.
And it's really where you'rekind of drawing, lifting up this
passage where Jesus heals acrippled woman on the Sabbath
and it creates a lot of, youknow, commotion among the elders
(01:32):
in the church.
And so do you just want to kindof frame where you're landing
with what we believe and how itties into the scripture this
week.
Bishop Wright (01:40):
Yeah, I mean what I'm responding to, as I've said
in the last couple of weeks,what I'm trying to respond to is
to is that we stand at anintersection in our nation, in
our world, and people of goodfaith all over the world are
standing at an intersection andmany of us are overwhelmed by
the division and lack of charityand, you know, sort of
increased complications of life,increased volatility of life,
(02:03):
and so I think it's a great timeto double down on who we say we
are, who we say God is and whois our neighbor, because that's
where we start, that's the HolyTrinity for us.
Who is this wonderful God whohas come to us as creator, as
redeemer, as sustainer, asFather, son and Holy Spirit, as
power, presence and persistence?
(02:23):
Who is this God Father, son andHoly Spirit as power, presence
and persistence?
Who is this God?
And therefore, then, who am I?
Because I find out who I ambecause of who God is and in the
mind of God and in the heart ofGod, and then who is my
neighbor.
So I have a great time to justsort of double down on that and
I'm praying that you know inthese conversations and these
(02:44):
meditations, that this will belife-giving to people, that
it'll be a chiropracticadjustment for some of us, a
blessed reminder for others, andmaybe even inspiring.
I'm worried about despair thatmany people are despairing I'm
wondering about.
I'm worried about people beingparalyzed by being overwhelmed
(03:05):
by the world that comes to us ina 24 hour news cycle, uh, and
it comes on our devices, uh, asbreaking news, it seems, every
five minutes.
So I think at least, uh, a goodchunk of the medicine, for that
is remembering who we are andwhose we are.
Melissa (03:23):
Well, you said at the, at the very end, you said and
you were just talking aboutgoing to the chiropractor, you
know which is about alignment.
And you say verticalorientation and how we learn how
to best parse and practice lifeon the horizontal plane, which
is, you know, putting our faithinto action, which Jesus did on
the Sabbath, which got him intotrouble.
So Jesus was really aboutkeeping it real Right.
Bishop Wright (03:48):
You know, I think what Jesus does is is that
Jesus continues to deepenespecially religious folks
notion of what it means to livewith God.
And he keeps and this is whatgets him in trouble, and he
keeps reminding us that as whatgets him in trouble.
And he keeps reminding us thatas soon as we draw a boundary,
(04:10):
you know we have failed intrying to adequately articulate
who God is.
Right now we have to point, wehave to tell a story, we have to
give experience, we have to doall that for sure.
I mean, as a bishop I do allthat on a, you know, sort of a
daily basis.
But I think what we have to bereally careful.
And this is what Jesus does.
(04:31):
He keeps, he shows us ourlimits, what I call our
spiritual imagination limits,and so he heals.
And you would think that peoplewould say, yay, the power of
God is among us in healing Jesus.
Let's throw you a party man,here's your sheet cake.
And of course they don't dothat.
(04:53):
And again and again and againby the way in Scripture that's
the pattern right is more afraidand more upset with Jesus and
is sort of healing and iswell-doing than they are about
the infirmity or the lack offood, or all these wonderful
(05:14):
things that Jesus seems to enact.
And Jesus comes, he does thisjazz riff.
He does this jazz riff on whatit means to be faithful.
And the religious people, therule keepers, people like myself
, uh, who have, uh, uh, what wewould call, uh, ecclesiastical
authority.
Um, you know, we get really in,we get really miffed.
(05:36):
Um, so yeah, so that's sort ofthe stage.
Um, you know that Jesus was anaffront to his religious
community.
He refused to narrowlyunderstand what life of God
meant, and what he does is isthat he also prioritizes human
(05:57):
flesh in an interesting way.
So this woman's healing is moreimportant, right, and the
feeding of people later will bemore important.
And again and again and again,he says that human dignity is
important and that God is on theside of human dignity, and so
(06:19):
this is what gets him in trouble, ironically, yeah, okay.
Melissa (06:23):
So I've got a really cool question.
I think Last week we weretalking about being able to
interpret the times and thisweek you just said something
really cool about, like you knowwell, I actually said let's
keep it real, and you weretalking about how Jesus kind of
you didn't use this word, butit's in the scripture about that
(06:44):
religious group feeling a bitshamed for the fact that Jesus
raises up some real truths.
Like you do one thing, you sayit and you believe one thing.
But whatever Y'all go read thescripture, I guess, bishop, what
I'm wondering is if we caninterpret the times, I'm curious
how we might live like Jesusdid today and kind of just like
(07:10):
I'm not saying throw caution tothe wind, but are there some, I
think, truths or norms that youthink a modern day, jesus, in
now and time, would say yeah,let's keep it real.
Bishop Wright (07:22):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, absolutely.
I mean I think Jesus would Imentioned this before.
I think Jesus would notice thatyou know the storage industry
is booming.
I think Jesus would notice thatyou know the storage industry
is booming.
I think Jesus would notice thatwe have a lot of stuff and that
you know our stuff has housesand our stuff has to have, you
(07:45):
know, increasingly more squarefootage, and yet there are
people who don't have, you know,basics.
I think Jesus would.
I mean, look what the prophetsdo and Jesus comes as a prophet
from Nazareth.
What the prophets do is they'renot sort of finger waggers and
always gruff and mean.
I think, because they love Godso much and they love neighbor
(08:07):
so much and they love thecovenant, the covenant lifestyle
, they realize the gaps, and sowhat we don't want is that when
the gaps get named, we start tofeel as the kids say these days,
we start to feel some type ofway right, and then we want to
eradicate the irritant and soyeah.
So I think Jesus would noticethat.
I think Jesus would notice thathere in Georgia we don't have a
(08:32):
living wage, that here inGeorgia we don't have a living
wage.
I think that the promise thatif you get up every morning and
work real hard, you'll have whatyou need.
I think we realize there's hugeholes in that, not only in
Georgia but in a lot of placesin the country.
I think Jesus would notice thatwe have a housing crisis all
over the world, that people areunhoused.
(08:55):
I think Jesus would notice thatwe have a medicine crisis, that
you know people we have decidedto have medicine for profit
rather than medicine for healing.
I mean, look, I'm not, I'm youknow, I'm just a normal fella
who reads, and I think when youspend some time with Jesus and
Matthew, mark, luke and John, Ithink you then begin to start
(09:16):
looking at things the way Jesusdid, and when you start noticing
things that Jesus noticed, thenyou start to have to go into a
deeper conversation.
You either sideline these newinsights and observations right
as a survival strategy so if Idon't sideline these things,
then they're going to justabsolutely live on my shoulder
and keep tapping me on theshoulder every day, or you have
(09:39):
to sort of sideline these ideasand say, ah, that's the way of
the world, or just sort of dothat lament that we do sometimes
.
Ah, what are you going to do?
Jesus seems to think that youand I are really important
wherever we are, wherever wefind ourselves, and that you and
I can make a difference, evenif it's just incremental, and
(10:01):
that it doesn't take, you know,a lot of screaming and shouting,
that it takes some sort ofquiet commitment to doing what
is good.
And all the people that I knowthat I would call saints in my
sort of pantheon are people whodid that, who have taken a step
for righteousness as they couldbest understand it, and have
(10:25):
become these amazing things.
We've had Helen Prejean on thispodcast, a Catholic nun who
changed Catholic teaching aboutlife and about the death penalty
.
She was just a quiet nun in her40s and some other nun said you
know, you ought to correspondwith people on death row, and
(10:46):
that's how her journey started.
You know, fast forward yearsahead, she's changing Catholic
teaching the globe over.
So I think what Jesus does issay hey, if you go deep on, we
believe, and you put humansuffering and the dignity of
every human being first, and thegoodness of God, you're going
(11:08):
to end up with some marchingorders.
Melissa (11:34):
Well, that was a great example too.
All of the quiet, intimateincremental change is, I think,
what you said, the incrementalshifting.
You know, when I look back andremember all of the passages
that I remember reading, jesuswas very personal, it was kind
of one-to-one.
He wasn't going to storm theColosseum steps and or the you
(11:57):
know wherever they gathered todo governance.
I forget all the things, right,I'm just.
I think there's a lot of peoplewho will, should on people say,
if you're not going to thatrally and you're not going to
that demonstration, well thenyou're not doing justice work.
And I buck that a little bitbecause Jesus didn't seem to do
(12:18):
that, and so I'm not saying it'sright or wrong.
I just wonder how we hold thosetwo things in tension.
How do we create systemicchange?
Bishop Wright (12:26):
Well, look, I think a better approach would be
to ask people.
You know, not to shame people,but to ask people.
You know, I think it's a bitpresumptuous to say that you
ought to care about my cause asmuch as I care about my cause.
So I think, you know, that'sjust rude.
Let's say, let's start there,but.
But I think it's it's, it'sfair, it's a fair question to
(12:47):
say um to any person who isendeavoring to follow Jesus.
Is that so what's on your heart?
You know what part of thisworld has God called you to be a
co-creator of healing and ofjustice and of equity?
You know, I think that is fair.
(13:07):
I think it is fair with ouryoung people.
We have schools in the Dioceseof Atlanta, where I serve.
I think it's fair to hold withour young people.
We have schools in the Dioceseof Atlanta where I serve.
I think it's fair to ask youngpeople to think about that, to
recognize that you know, interms of the global population,
for instance, you are a verysmall percentage and that Black,
(13:29):
white, hispanic, asian,whatever your walk of life is
relative to that, you areimmensely privileged, right and
so.
But not to feel shame about allthe gifts poured into you, but
to now feel like what anopportunity you have, sort of
personalize it and ask thoseindividuals and raise this
(13:51):
expectation about.
Therefore, you know with yourhand, your heart, and you know
the best help you can render.
You know how are you going tomake the world better.
I think that's fair.
I think where we mess it up isis that we can get a bit rude, a
bit arrogant, maybe even a bitprideful about what we think
we're doing and what otherpeople think they should do.
(14:13):
I don't see that in Jesus, butI do think Jesus asks the
question you know what are youdoing?
And I do think you know if wesay that we love God, I don't
question that, but I do whenpeople say that.
But I do want to observe thatthis horizontal adoration I'm
sorry, this vertical adoration,right to be measurable in many
(14:39):
ways, needs to have a horizontalsort of component.
So you know I've said thisbefore again you know adoration
has to become oblation andoblation is just.
I pour myself out in these waysnot because I'm a good person,
right, because I don't even knowwhat that means, what is good.
It means that I'm endeavoringto respond to a good God as best
(15:06):
I can, and it seems like fromscripture and Jesus' teaching
that this really good God wantsme to pay attention to things
like why don't his children, whydon't God's children have food
enough?
Why don't God's children havehousing?
Why isn't there equal access tomedicine?
Why don't God's children have aliving wage in a wealthy
(15:29):
country?
Why is there seemingly atolerance for Palestinians to
starve and for us to find inmany places, for us to have
laryngitis about the matter?
Why can't we say that bothIsrael and Palestine have a
right to exist and both Israelichildren and Palestinian
(15:53):
children deserve safety andeducation and nutritious food?
We can say that.
So I think these gaps arebefore us all on the macro and
they're also before us in themicro, and the invitation here,
I think in Jesus's words to us,is if you believe in me, if you
(16:15):
trust me, then trust that thisis the best way to live.
Melissa (16:20):
Okay, so I guess my final question of the day.
It's a bit complicated.
In the very last sentence ofthis passage in the NRSVUE it
says when he said this, all hisopponents were put to shame.
You're highlighting the factthat we believe as a church,
right, as a global, as the Jesusfollowers, and yet Jesus was
(16:44):
very much a Hebrew person, hewas a Jewish person and he was
talking to the religiousauthority and this scripture
calls them opponents.
So Bishop, how do we believetogether, putting our faith in
action, living on thathorizontal plane together and
minimize the whole idea of theus versus them?
Bishop Wright (17:07):
Well, look, yeah, you seem to be really invested
in that question.
I don't think us and them isever going away, however.
Melissa (17:14):
Okay.
Bishop Wright (17:15):
I think we can minimize it.
But I think you've got torealize also something about the
nature of truth, right?
You know, wonderful, bob Marleysaid the truth is is is not a
sin, but it is an offense.
And so you know, one of themost difficult questions I've
(17:36):
ever had to answer, I mean, yourquestions to me are are
wonderful, but they're, they'rea cakewalk in comparison to
doing chapel with young kids,right?
Uh, because these beautifullittle kids they're, they're not
as jaded as we are, um, youknow, and they just sort of come
right at it.
And I remember a kid asked mewhat we were talking about Dr
(17:58):
King.
And I remember a little kidwhat we were talking about, dr
King.
And I remember a little kid, Imean maybe, like I don't know,
second grader maybe asked me ifDr King came to talk about
nonviolence and brotherly andsisterly love, why did he get
killed?
Melissa (18:15):
Because he came to talk about it, because he came to
talk about it, exactly, exactly.
Bishop Wright (18:29):
So I think what we have to remember is is that
this is, this is the bestexample of what sin is in the
world, right, that sin issomething ever with us and the
church, in the church thatopposes, right, the goals and
objectives of the one that theysay that they gather to worship.
I mean, you really you got tostop there a moment and think
(18:49):
about that.
So the church is no exclusiveenclave.
It's a collection of people whofall short, led by people who
fall short, right, and so we'restumbling forward, and it seems
like sometimes we take a stepforward and sometimes we take
(19:11):
three steps back, and sometimeswe get stuck thinking about our
own four walls, to the exclusionof the need of the world.
When Jesus heals this woman, youknow, in violation of the rules
of the religious people, he'sdeciding that I'm going to come
down on the side of infirmitywherever I find it Right, and
(19:36):
that's going to be beyond therules and the rule keepers, and
so you know, he just lives onthat electric wire and he's
trying to teach us something, Ido believe, and so, yeah, so the
church is just a place wherewe're trying, as sinners, trying
to stumble forward, and whenthe church forgets that she
(19:58):
really makes a, she doesviolence to the gospel, and then
she's not the place that Ithink that Jesus wants the
church to be, which is a placewhere we acknowledge our
blindness.
We ask for sight, new sight, tobe given to us, and we ask for
the courage to live out ourfaith.
(20:19):
And so that is who we are atbest case scenario and I think
that's the call is to say Ibelieve Lord, help my unbelief.
Melissa (20:37):
Help my unbelief.
Bishop Wright (20:47):
Well, there's a prayer, exactly lord, I believe,
lord, I, I believe with my mind, the mind that you've given me,
that you are the center of thecosmos, of all the worlds.
I believe that, um.
And then the second part islord, help me to trust that, I
mean really trust that in in theworld of, of, of, of war and of
wall street.
Lord, help me to really trustthat.
(21:08):
And, lord, help me to trustthat, starting with my own
address, right in tangible ways,and in those places where I
want to shrink back, where I'mafraid, where I'm consumed by my
own wanting to do my own way.
(21:30):
Lord, meet me there and help me, send some angels, some
messengers with flesh or withwings, or however it works, who
can perhaps charm me through,guide me through, love me,
through that stuck place where Ifind myself.
Look, the best line in themeditation, if I do say so
(21:53):
myself, is that you know, tothink of God and to live for God
is to be rescued from the smallconfines of yourself.
And so when we say we believethat we're going to trust God,
we are saying that we're goingon a stretching journey, and so
(22:14):
stretching is not the mostcomfortable process.
Right, but necessary.
Melissa (22:21):
Amen, bishop, thank you , and thank you, listeners, for
listening to For People.
You can follow us on Instagramand Facebook at Bishop Rob
Wright, or by visiting www.
forpeople.
digital.
Please subscribe, leave areview and we'll be back with
you next week.
Why don't God's children have housing?
Why isn't there equal access tomedicine?
Why don't God's children have aliving wage in a wealthy
country?
Why is there seemingly atolerance for Palestinians to
starve?
These gaps are before us all onthe macro and they're also
before us in the micro.
(00:20):
And the invitation here, Ithink in Jesus's words to us, is
if you believe in me, if youtrust me, trust that this is the
best way to live.
Melissa (00:40):
Welcome to For People with Bishop Rob Wright.
I'm Melissa Rau, your host, andthis is a conversation inspired
by For Faith, a weekly devotionsent out every Friday.
You can find a link to thisweek's For Faith and a link to
subscribe in the episode'sdescription.
Now, over the past couple ofweeks and this next season,
Bishop Wright is framing hisdevotions and our conversations
(01:02):
around the theme We Believe aswe make our way through the
lectionary.
Good morning, bishop.
Bishop Wright (01:09):
Good morning.
Melissa (01:10):
This week's devotion in we Believe is based off of Luke
, chapter 13, verses 10 through17.
And it's really where you'rekind of drawing, lifting up this
passage where Jesus heals acrippled woman on the Sabbath
and it creates a lot of, youknow, commotion among the elders
(01:32):
in the church.
And so do you just want to kindof frame where you're landing
with what we believe and how itties into the scripture this
week.
Bishop Wright (01:40):
Yeah, I mean what I'm responding to, as I've said
in the last couple of weeks,what I'm trying to respond to is
to is that we stand at anintersection in our nation, in
our world, and people of goodfaith all over the world are
standing at an intersection andmany of us are overwhelmed by
the division and lack of charityand, you know, sort of
increased complications of life,increased volatility of life,
(02:03):
and so I think it's a great timeto double down on who we say we
are, who we say God is and whois our neighbor, because that's
where we start, that's the HolyTrinity for us.
Who is this wonderful God whohas come to us as creator, as
redeemer, as sustainer, asFather, son and Holy Spirit, as
power, presence and persistence?
(02:23):
Who is this God Father, son andHoly Spirit as power, presence
and persistence?
Who is this God?
And therefore, then, who am I?
Because I find out who I ambecause of who God is and in the
mind of God and in the heart ofGod, and then who is my
neighbor.
So I have a great time to justsort of double down on that and
I'm praying that you know inthese conversations and these
(02:44):
meditations, that this will belife-giving to people, that
it'll be a chiropracticadjustment for some of us, a
blessed reminder for others, andmaybe even inspiring.
I'm worried about despair thatmany people are despairing I'm
wondering about.
I'm worried about people beingparalyzed by being overwhelmed
(03:05):
by the world that comes to us ina 24 hour news cycle, uh, and
it comes on our devices, uh, asbreaking news, it seems, every
five minutes.
So I think at least, uh, a goodchunk of the medicine, for that
is remembering who we are andwhose we are.
Melissa (03:23):
Well, you said at the, at the very end, you said and
you were just talking aboutgoing to the chiropractor, you
know which is about alignment.
And you say verticalorientation and how we learn how
to best parse and practice lifeon the horizontal plane, which
is, you know, putting our faithinto action, which Jesus did on
the Sabbath, which got him intotrouble.
So Jesus was really aboutkeeping it real Right.
Bishop Wright (03:48):
You know, I think what Jesus does is is that
Jesus continues to deepenespecially religious folks
notion of what it means to livewith God.
And he keeps and this is whatgets him in trouble, and he
keeps reminding us that as whatgets him in trouble.
And he keeps reminding us thatas soon as we draw a boundary,
(04:10):
you know we have failed intrying to adequately articulate
who God is.
Right now we have to point, wehave to tell a story, we have to
give experience, we have to doall that for sure.
I mean, as a bishop I do allthat on a, you know, sort of a
daily basis.
But I think what we have to bereally careful.
And this is what Jesus does.
(04:31):
He keeps, he shows us ourlimits, what I call our
spiritual imagination limits,and so he heals.
And you would think that peoplewould say, yay, the power of
God is among us in healing Jesus.
Let's throw you a party man,here's your sheet cake.
And of course they don't dothat.
(04:53):
And again and again and againby the way in Scripture that's
the pattern right is more afraidand more upset with Jesus and
is sort of healing and iswell-doing than they are about
the infirmity or the lack offood, or all these wonderful
(05:14):
things that Jesus seems to enact.
And Jesus comes, he does thisjazz riff.
He does this jazz riff on whatit means to be faithful.
And the religious people, therule keepers, people like myself
, uh, who have, uh, uh, what wewould call, uh, ecclesiastical
authority.
Um, you know, we get really in,we get really miffed.
(05:36):
Um, so yeah, so that's sort ofthe stage.
Um, you know that Jesus was anaffront to his religious
community.
He refused to narrowlyunderstand what life of God
meant, and what he does is isthat he also prioritizes human
(05:57):
flesh in an interesting way.
So this woman's healing is moreimportant, right, and the
feeding of people later will bemore important.
And again and again and again,he says that human dignity is
important and that God is on theside of human dignity, and so
(06:19):
this is what gets him in trouble, ironically, yeah, okay.
Melissa (06:23):
So I've got a really cool question.
I think Last week we weretalking about being able to
interpret the times and thisweek you just said something
really cool about, like you knowwell, I actually said let's
keep it real, and you weretalking about how Jesus kind of
you didn't use this word, butit's in the scripture about that
(06:44):
religious group feeling a bitshamed for the fact that Jesus
raises up some real truths.
Like you do one thing, you sayit and you believe one thing.
But whatever Y'all go read thescripture, I guess, bishop, what
I'm wondering is if we caninterpret the times, I'm curious
how we might live like Jesusdid today and kind of just like
(07:10):
I'm not saying throw caution tothe wind, but are there some, I
think, truths or norms that youthink a modern day, jesus, in
now and time, would say yeah,let's keep it real.
Bishop Wright (07:22):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, absolutely.
I mean I think Jesus would Imentioned this before.
I think Jesus would notice thatyou know the storage industry
is booming.
I think Jesus would notice thatyou know the storage industry
is booming.
I think Jesus would notice thatwe have a lot of stuff and that
you know our stuff has housesand our stuff has to have, you
(07:45):
know, increasingly more squarefootage, and yet there are
people who don't have, you know,basics.
I think Jesus would.
I mean, look what the prophetsdo and Jesus comes as a prophet
from Nazareth.
What the prophets do is they'renot sort of finger waggers and
always gruff and mean.
I think, because they love Godso much and they love neighbor
(08:07):
so much and they love thecovenant, the covenant lifestyle
, they realize the gaps, and sowhat we don't want is that when
the gaps get named, we start tofeel as the kids say these days,
we start to feel some type ofway right, and then we want to
eradicate the irritant and soyeah.
So I think Jesus would noticethat.
I think Jesus would notice thathere in Georgia we don't have a
(08:32):
living wage, that here inGeorgia we don't have a living
wage.
I think that the promise thatif you get up every morning and
work real hard, you'll have whatyou need.
I think we realize there's hugeholes in that, not only in
Georgia but in a lot of placesin the country.
I think Jesus would notice thatwe have a housing crisis all
over the world, that people areunhoused.
(08:55):
I think Jesus would notice thatwe have a medicine crisis, that
you know people we have decidedto have medicine for profit
rather than medicine for healing.
I mean, look, I'm not, I'm youknow, I'm just a normal fella
who reads, and I think when youspend some time with Jesus and
Matthew, mark, luke and John, Ithink you then begin to start
(09:16):
looking at things the way Jesusdid, and when you start noticing
things that Jesus noticed, thenyou start to have to go into a
deeper conversation.
You either sideline these newinsights and observations right
as a survival strategy so if Idon't sideline these things,
then they're going to justabsolutely live on my shoulder
and keep tapping me on theshoulder every day, or you have
(09:39):
to sort of sideline these ideasand say, ah, that's the way of
the world, or just sort of dothat lament that we do sometimes
.
Ah, what are you going to do?
Jesus seems to think that youand I are really important
wherever we are, wherever wefind ourselves, and that you and
I can make a difference, evenif it's just incremental, and
(10:01):
that it doesn't take, you know,a lot of screaming and shouting,
that it takes some sort ofquiet commitment to doing what
is good.
And all the people that I knowthat I would call saints in my
sort of pantheon are people whodid that, who have taken a step
for righteousness as they couldbest understand it, and have
(10:25):
become these amazing things.
We've had Helen Prejean on thispodcast, a Catholic nun who
changed Catholic teaching aboutlife and about the death penalty
.
She was just a quiet nun in her40s and some other nun said you
know, you ought to correspondwith people on death row, and
(10:46):
that's how her journey started.
You know, fast forward yearsahead, she's changing Catholic
teaching the globe over.
So I think what Jesus does issay hey, if you go deep on, we
believe, and you put humansuffering and the dignity of
every human being first, and thegoodness of God, you're going
(11:08):
to end up with some marchingorders.
Melissa (11:34):
Well, that was a great example too.
All of the quiet, intimateincremental change is, I think,
what you said, the incrementalshifting.
You know, when I look back andremember all of the passages
that I remember reading, jesuswas very personal, it was kind
of one-to-one.
He wasn't going to storm theColosseum steps and or the you
(11:57):
know wherever they gathered todo governance.
I forget all the things, right,I'm just.
I think there's a lot of peoplewho will, should on people say,
if you're not going to thatrally and you're not going to
that demonstration, well thenyou're not doing justice work.
And I buck that a little bitbecause Jesus didn't seem to do
(12:18):
that, and so I'm not saying it'sright or wrong.
I just wonder how we hold thosetwo things in tension.
How do we create systemicchange?
Bishop Wright (12:26):
Well, look, I think a better approach would be
to ask people.
You know, not to shame people,but to ask people.
You know, I think it's a bitpresumptuous to say that you
ought to care about my cause asmuch as I care about my cause.
So I think, you know, that'sjust rude.
Let's say, let's start there,but.
But I think it's it's, it'sfair, it's a fair question to
(12:47):
say um to any person who isendeavoring to follow Jesus.
Is that so what's on your heart?
You know what part of thisworld has God called you to be a
co-creator of healing and ofjustice and of equity?
You know, I think that is fair.
(13:07):
I think it is fair with ouryoung people.
We have schools in the Dioceseof Atlanta, where I serve.
I think it's fair to hold withour young people.
We have schools in the Dioceseof Atlanta where I serve.
I think it's fair to ask youngpeople to think about that, to
recognize that you know, interms of the global population,
for instance, you are a verysmall percentage and that Black,
(13:29):
white, hispanic, asian,whatever your walk of life is
relative to that, you areimmensely privileged, right and
so.
But not to feel shame about allthe gifts poured into you, but
to now feel like what anopportunity you have, sort of
personalize it and ask thoseindividuals and raise this
(13:51):
expectation about.
Therefore, you know with yourhand, your heart, and you know
the best help you can render.
You know how are you going tomake the world better.
I think that's fair.
I think where we mess it up isis that we can get a bit rude, a
bit arrogant, maybe even a bitprideful about what we think
we're doing and what otherpeople think they should do.
(14:13):
I don't see that in Jesus, butI do think Jesus asks the
question you know what are youdoing?
And I do think you know if wesay that we love God, I don't
question that, but I do whenpeople say that.
But I do want to observe thatthis horizontal adoration I'm
sorry, this vertical adoration,right to be measurable in many
(14:39):
ways, needs to have a horizontalsort of component.
So you know I've said thisbefore again you know adoration
has to become oblation andoblation is just.
I pour myself out in these waysnot because I'm a good person,
right, because I don't even knowwhat that means, what is good.
It means that I'm endeavoringto respond to a good God as best
(15:06):
I can, and it seems like fromscripture and Jesus' teaching
that this really good God wantsme to pay attention to things
like why don't his children, whydon't God's children have food
enough?
Why don't God's children havehousing?
Why isn't there equal access tomedicine?
Why don't God's children have aliving wage in a wealthy
(15:29):
country?
Why is there seemingly atolerance for Palestinians to
starve and for us to find inmany places, for us to have
laryngitis about the matter?
Why can't we say that bothIsrael and Palestine have a
right to exist and both Israelichildren and Palestinian
(15:53):
children deserve safety andeducation and nutritious food?
We can say that.
So I think these gaps arebefore us all on the macro and
they're also before us in themicro, and the invitation here,
I think in Jesus's words to us,is if you believe in me, if you
(16:15):
trust me, then trust that thisis the best way to live.
Melissa (16:20):
Okay, so I guess my final question of the day.
It's a bit complicated.
In the very last sentence ofthis passage in the NRSVUE it
says when he said this, all hisopponents were put to shame.
You're highlighting the factthat we believe as a church,
right, as a global, as the Jesusfollowers, and yet Jesus was
(16:44):
very much a Hebrew person, hewas a Jewish person and he was
talking to the religiousauthority and this scripture
calls them opponents.
So Bishop, how do we believetogether, putting our faith in
action, living on thathorizontal plane together and
minimize the whole idea of theus versus them?
Bishop Wright (17:07):
Well, look, yeah, you seem to be really invested
in that question.
I don't think us and them isever going away, however.
Melissa (17:14):
Okay.
Bishop Wright (17:15):
I think we can minimize it.
But I think you've got torealize also something about the
nature of truth, right?
You know, wonderful, bob Marleysaid the truth is is is not a
sin, but it is an offense.
And so you know, one of themost difficult questions I've
(17:36):
ever had to answer, I mean, yourquestions to me are are
wonderful, but they're, they'rea cakewalk in comparison to
doing chapel with young kids,right?
Uh, because these beautifullittle kids they're, they're not
as jaded as we are, um, youknow, and they just sort of come
right at it.
And I remember a kid asked mewhat we were talking about Dr
(17:58):
King.
And I remember a little kidwhat we were talking about, dr
King.
And I remember a little kid, Imean maybe, like I don't know,
second grader maybe asked me ifDr King came to talk about
nonviolence and brotherly andsisterly love, why did he get
killed?
Melissa (18:15):
Because he came to talk about it, because he came to
talk about it, exactly, exactly.
Bishop Wright (18:29):
So I think what we have to remember is is that
this is, this is the bestexample of what sin is in the
world, right, that sin issomething ever with us and the
church, in the church thatopposes, right, the goals and
objectives of the one that theysay that they gather to worship.
I mean, you really you got tostop there a moment and think
(18:49):
about that.
So the church is no exclusiveenclave.
It's a collection of people whofall short, led by people who
fall short, right, and so we'restumbling forward, and it seems
like sometimes we take a stepforward and sometimes we take
(19:11):
three steps back, and sometimeswe get stuck thinking about our
own four walls, to the exclusionof the need of the world.
When Jesus heals this woman, youknow, in violation of the rules
of the religious people, he'sdeciding that I'm going to come
down on the side of infirmitywherever I find it Right, and
(19:36):
that's going to be beyond therules and the rule keepers, and
so you know, he just lives onthat electric wire and he's
trying to teach us something, Ido believe, and so, yeah, so the
church is just a place wherewe're trying, as sinners, trying
to stumble forward, and whenthe church forgets that she
(19:58):
really makes a, she doesviolence to the gospel, and then
she's not the place that Ithink that Jesus wants the
church to be, which is a placewhere we acknowledge our
blindness.
We ask for sight, new sight, tobe given to us, and we ask for
the courage to live out ourfaith.
(20:19):
And so that is who we are atbest case scenario and I think
that's the call is to say Ibelieve Lord, help my unbelief.
Melissa (20:37):
Help my unbelief.
Bishop Wright (20:47):
Well, there's a prayer, exactly lord, I believe,
lord, I, I believe with my mind, the mind that you've given me,
that you are the center of thecosmos, of all the worlds.
I believe that, um.
And then the second part islord, help me to trust that, I
mean really trust that in in theworld of, of, of, of war and of
wall street.
Lord, help me to really trustthat.
(21:08):
And, lord, help me to trustthat, starting with my own
address, right in tangible ways,and in those places where I
want to shrink back, where I'mafraid, where I'm consumed by my
own wanting to do my own way.
(21:30):
Lord, meet me there and help me, send some angels, some
messengers with flesh or withwings, or however it works, who
can perhaps charm me through,guide me through, love me,
through that stuck place where Ifind myself.
Look, the best line in themeditation, if I do say so
(21:53):
myself, is that you know, tothink of God and to live for God
is to be rescued from the smallconfines of yourself.
And so when we say we believethat we're going to trust God,
we are saying that we're goingon a stretching journey, and so
(22:14):
stretching is not the mostcomfortable process.
Right, but necessary.
Melissa (22:21):
Amen, bishop, thank you , and thank you, listeners, for
listening to For People.
You can follow us on Instagramand Facebook at Bishop Rob
Wright, or by visiting www.
forpeople.
digital.
Please subscribe, leave areview and we'll be back with
you next week.
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