April 25, 2025 • 30 mins
This week we celebrate 250 episodes of our Podcast, For People! From its inception until now our purpose has been singular, to talk about God, God’s goodness and how we might respond to this good God made known to us in the person of Jesus Christ. Thus far, we have listeners in 142 countries. An immense thank you goes to Easton Davis, our producer, and Melissa Rau, my conversation partner, most weeks. Incredibly affirming and instructive for us in this work is that we have heard from so many telling us about the ways For People has been a blessing, companion and inspiration for them in their life with Christ. Please know that we understand it to be a privilege to make this offering. Psalm 118 helps me say how I really feel about this milestone, "You are my God, and I will thank you; you are my God, and I will exalt you. Give thanks to the Lord, for he is good….” -Bishop Rob Wright
In the 250th episode, Melissa and Bishop Wright take listeners on a journey through some of the most profound moments from past conversations on For People. The four soundbites from podcasts guests include The Rev. Dr. Robert Franklin, Archbishop Hosam Elias Naom, Texas State Representative James Talarico, and Bishop Mariann Budde. These soundbites represent critical intersections of faith and life emphasizing the importance of moral leadership in our world today. Listen in for the full conversation.
In celebrating 250 episodes, we have developed a survey to better understand how Bishop Wright's For People Podcast can continue to inspire, engage, and serve our listeners. Your feedback is invaluable in helping us improve the content, format, and overall experience of the podcast. Please take 5 minutes to complete the survey here.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bishop Wright (00:00):
I give thanks for you know some of the bumps in
the road and the speed bumps nowthat have turned into my best
teachers and it is all gift andI think if you get down into
gratitude, you know it's amazinghow that changes your
spirituality.
We move from an obligation, wemove from needing to be a good
(00:20):
boy or a good girl and trying towin favor and we move deeply
down into wow, can you believethis?
Melissa (00:40):
Welcome to For People with Bishop Rob Wright, I'm
Melissa Rau and friends, todaywe're celebrating our 250th
episode, which is just onereason for which I'm giving
thanks today.
Just a few stats to share Inour 250 episodes, For People has
been downloaded over 330,000times and our listenership
(01:04):
represents 6,700 cities in 142countries.
Yeah, man.
So, friends, we're going to beplaying some of our recent
favorite clips over the last 150episodes, since we did this in
celebration of our centennialepisode drop, and so our first
(01:27):
clip is from the Reverend Dr.
Robert Franklin.
The Rev. Dr. Robert Franklin (01:30):
I think about moral leadership as
a people who inspire us tobecome the best versions of
ourselves ourselves.
They are able to do thatbecause moral leaders possess
(01:52):
integrity, courage, imagination,wisdom, empathy a host of
virtues that prompt them toserve the common good and prompt
them to invite others to jointhe process of building a better
community and a just society.
Melissa (02:10):
Bishop.
That's fire right there and I'mjust curious.
I mean, the list of virtues wasso good, but I really love that
he talks about inviting othersinto creating the common good.
What was your favorite partabout that clip?
Bishop Wright (02:30):
Well, you know, I think we wanted to talk to Dr.
Franklin because, you know,we're looking out at the world
and we're wondering aboutleadership, and we're wondering
about a particular kind ofleadership, that's moral
leadership.
You know people who areethically minded, or you know
people who are are ethicallyminded, or you know who are, you
know, tethered to morals thatbenefit the entire human family,
and I just wanted to.
(02:51):
You know, what I love about,you know, this podcast is that
we get to seek wisdom from lotsof different kinds of people,
and over all these years, we'vejust been cold calling people
and ask them hey, would you joinme for 20 minutes?
You know online, and ask them,hey, would you join me for 20
minutes online?
And they have said yes, reallysignificant intellects, people
with big hearts and just sort ofbright minds, and so, yeah, I
(03:13):
wanted to talk about moralleadership.
One of the reasons why wefounded this podcast was to keep
the conversation going.
It was born in COVID.
Our podcast was but to keep theconversation going.
It was born in COVID.
Our podcast was but to keep theconversation going about God
and about leadership.
And so you know, Dr.
Franklin was sort of an obviouschoice to have a conversation
(03:34):
with about all of this and Ihope also to make some of us
really commit to in ourlistening of his wonderful words
, that behavior inspiring withintegrity.
You know others in, you knowrunning to the ends of our own
capacity and inviting others torun to the end of their capacity
(03:55):
to do good.
So, yeah, he's like a perfectchoice.
And you know he's also justsort of a friend here in Atlanta
.
He's someone that I can call upand check in with and I think
you know that's the other partof moral leadership for all of
us is that you know, are theresome people let's call them
ancestors, wise elders that youknow you got on speed dial, that
(04:17):
you can check in with whenthings get gray or you get to
important intersections, and sohe is one of those people for me
.
Melissa (04:24):
Excellent.
Well, I'm glad, and, friends,you can listen to the entire
conversation.
That was from our 240th episode, dropped on February 7th 2025.
So I'd encourage you to listento the entire thing if you
haven't already done so, friends.
Our next clip is fromArchbishop Hosam Elias Naom,
(04:46):
Archbishop of Jerusalem and theMiddle East.
Archbishop Hosam Naoum (04:50):
What verse would speak to me most at
this time as solace and asreassurance that God is with us?
God will continue to guide usand guard us as we go through
these difficult times.
Continue to guide us and guardus as we go through these
difficult times.
And I couldn't find any verseexcept the one that was my like
motto, like that was the themeof my ministry as a bishop, and
(05:14):
that is John 10.10.
I came that they may have lifeand have it in abundance.
Maybe we can't see abundance atthis time.
We see scarcity and need andlack of everything, but I think
we trust and hope that God isthere and God will, with his
(05:35):
abundance, shower us with hislove and grace and hope so that
we may continue to persevere, tohave resilience, in order to go
through this time and we comeout stronger so that we may
bring life to others around us
Melissa (05:57):
And I don't know about you, I just wonder.
Sometimes I feel like God showsup in abundance through us.
So how might we be?
What do you think?
What's hitting you?
Bishop Wright (06:08):
Well, I mean, I'm remembering that podcast and
I'm remembering the recording ofdoing.
You know 250 episodes now youknow there's only been one
podcast that at the end ofrecording it I was very
emotional.
You know, he's the Archbishopof Jerusalem in the Middle East,
and the hospital that wasbombed in Gaza was his hospital.
(06:32):
He's had young people killed onthe steps of his cathedral.
He traces his Christian lineageall the way back to Pentecost
In the book of Acts.
He is an Israeli citizen andalso ethnically a Palestinian,
(06:53):
and I just was so struck and amso struck that he still has hope
in what looks like a hopelesssituation and has looked like a
hopeless situation.
You know, my entire 61 yearsand, and here this man with
sincere hope and deep faith, uh,gets up every day and tries to
(07:16):
remind people there in aterribly conflicted region that
they are siblings, uh, and thatnobody is going to win.
You know, in the way we'represently sort of fighting this
war, I was just so deeply struckby that and, you know, I think
(07:36):
that, maybe even selfishly, Ithink that we need people like
Archbishop Hosam in our livesbecause sometimes we encounter
hardship et cetera, and thoughwe shouldn't do comparative
suffering, I think sometimes itdoes help us to be a little more
(08:00):
other-centered and a littleless self-centered.
You know what's that wonderfulquote from Bob Marley?
Every man thinks that hisburden is the heaviest, and then
you meet someone carryingliterally the burden of a region
on you know his broad andloving shoulders, and it just
sort of jogs you back intoreality.
(08:21):
And so I guess I walked awayfrom that, back into reality,
and so I guess I walked awayfrom that really understanding
at a newer level what a gifthope is, because I mean, if he
doesn't have hope he can't dowhat he's doing.
I mean, duty won't get you asfar and duty won't keep you, as
(08:42):
you know, buoyant as far andduty won't keep you, as you know
, buoyant.
There's some sort of deep hopethat is driving him to try to,
you know, find a way out of noway.
And just think about it for aminute.
You know he has faith in Godand you know sometimes, if you
know, if things don't turn outfor us, you know, in a week, a
(09:04):
month or a or a year, we'rewilling to sort of walk away
from God or call the whole faithenterprise foolishness, and
this man's entire life and notonly his entire life, but the
entire life of his family storyhas been wrapped up in a
situation that has not beenresolved Flashes of peace,
(09:25):
flashes of prosperity foreverybody, but still living in
an apartheid society, and yet hestill believes in God.
So faith is, you know, beliefstretched over time and you know
just the embodiment of him.
I mean he's just the absoluteembodiment of that for me and
just, completely, withoutpretense and guile, absolutely
(09:48):
sincere.
I was glad to greet him afterthe podcast.
I was glad to greet him inperson at our last general
convention that we have everythree years in Louisville,
Kentucky.
Melissa (10:01):
That was episode 180 that dropped on November 6th
2023.
An incredibly timeless andinspiring episode.
Our next clip is from staterepresentative James Talarico.
I have to say this is one of myvery favorite all-time episodes
.
It was fabulous.
(10:22):
Let's give a listen.
State Representative (10:24):
Democracy .
To me, as a Christian and anelected official, it's a
spiritual practice, and thereason that it's spiritual is
that it requires a few things.
It requires that we listen toour neighbors.
That's kind of fundamental tothe idea of all of us living
together in peace.
It requires that we have kindof the humility to recognize
(10:45):
that we don't have all the rightanswers.
It requires that we resolve ourconflicts nonviolently and this
is probably the hardest part ofall.
It requires that we give uppower when we lose, when we lose
at the ballot box.
And that again, I really thinkthat the reason I think
democracy is so special and thereason I think democracy is a
(11:07):
Christian value is becausethat's directly aligned with the
Gospel the idea of giving uppower, of self-emptying for
others.
Melissa (11:18):
So that, of course, is from your four-part series of
Christian nationalism.
Leading up to the 2024 election, you had four big conversations
.
This one happened to be, myfavorite, and so you know he's
young.
I think he's from Texas, right?
Bishop Wright (11:36):
Oh yeah, His roots are way deep in Texas.
Yeah.
Melissa (11:39):
So he really knocked my socks off.
Bishop, what really spoke outto you most about your
conversation with him?
Bishop Wright (11:45):
Well, again, you know, just a cold call to him.
Someone forwarded a video to meof him speaking in a
congregation.
This young sort of, you know,he's got a fresh face, you know,
state representative from Texasand just talking about why
Christian nationalism, you know,isn't Christian and I was so
(12:07):
struck by his clarity.
And also, as a staterepresentative, you know, in in
in Texas, this is a guy who istrying to literally, you know,
without being antagonistic, istrying to sort of talk to people
about how democracy is, is infact spiritual, it's, it's best
practices, and uh, and so I hadto get him on.
(12:30):
Cold called him and he said yes, and I found out even more that
not only is he a staterepresentative, he's actually a
seminarian.
Uh, actually, you know,pursuing ordination and uh, you
know, if you can Google him,James Talarico, spell it like it
sounds.
It's just an amazing video.
But I loved him for his clarity,bright mind, he's a Harvard guy
(12:53):
, smart, fella, but hiswonderful flourishes about
neighborliness and democracybeing about, really, at the end
of it, about neighborliness,about how we're going to live
together and what are theguardrails on that, and then
also calling out, I think youknow, what I would like to call
(13:21):
fraudulent Christianity, whichtries to use Jesus and a little
bit of his sort, of his appealto really mobilize greed and
exclus and really brutality, andso he's so clear about that and
so I think I thought thatpeople really need to hear from
somebody who tries to live inboth those worlds every day.
He's trying to advance you knowthe state of Texas, the best
parts of it trying to take careof the people through policy et
(13:43):
cetera, and at the same time hasa really palpable and deep
connection, you know, to Jesusof Nazareth and trying to live
that out and trying to sort oflive in both those worlds.
So an amazing young fella and Ireally loved just watching his
mind work on these subjects.
Melissa (14:00):
Our last clip, friends, is from the Right Reverend
Mariann Budde, who happens to bethe Episcopal Bishop of the
Diocese of Washington.
Bishop Mariann Budde (14:10):
There are, I think, for all of us, these
moments that we can look back onand we kind of hang our life
story on.
That were moments we made achoice.
We made a choice to dosomething or to be a kind of
person, and it was conscious andit was a stretch right, it was
a stretch and it put us into, Ithink, a mode of discovery and a
(14:36):
mode of vulnerability.
Melissa (14:39):
So, of course, this is a very relevant message, and you
had a conversation with BishopBuddE well before the prayer
service that was held at theNational Cathedral.
It was after 2020 and after shedid a brave thing and she had
then since written a book calledHow We Learned to Be Brave, and
(15:00):
of course, I think whathappened in 2024 and the prayer
service just launched that to be, I think, a bestseller.
Bishop Wright (15:07):
Yeah, well, I mean, I think it's important to
underscore the fact that youknow, Bishop Mariann and I have
been longtime colleagues andhave been thought partners
together about lots of things,and you know, and inviting her
on the podcast was well inadvance of her remarks at the
2025 prayer meeting thePresident Trump, and so what's
(15:32):
interesting to note here is isthat she's been working on in
her own mind and heart what doesit mean to be brave?
How does faith inform bravery,and and you know, what are the
sort of the constituent parts ofwhat it means to be brave and
she laid that out, you know,sort of in the clip.
Now, I think, whether you agreewith her comments to President
(15:54):
Trump and all those assembled,you know, in the Washington
National Cathedral or not, Ithink what's redeemable here and
what needs to be thought aboutby anybody who's intending to be
faithful, is is that so what isbravery actually look like?
Right, so it may not look like,you know, speaking from a
(16:15):
pulpit to a president, um, butwhat else?
What else might it mean, though, for us who don't have a pulpit
and don't get to addresspresidents?
Uh, does it look like youcannot argue reasonably that
bravery is not a part of what itmeans to follow Jesus.
You cannot argue that.
(16:35):
I mean, we're in Easter, hereright now, and you know, just a
little while ago we werewatching Jesus enter Jerusalem
on a donkey to literally, tospeak a nonverbal message to
political power, butnevertheless it was driven by a
(16:56):
certain spiritual bravery.
So bravery, again and again andagain, throughout Scripture,
whether Old or New Testament,you know, is present and is a
part of what it means to befaithful and what it means to
trust God.
It has everything to do withbearing witness.
And so again, whether we agreewith Bishop Buddy or not, the
question for us is so how hasfaith made you brave to go in
(17:22):
different directions, to leavethe status quo, to risk
something, to be vulnerable,simply because you want to be in
step with Jesus?
And so I think her question forus is alive and it keeps
tapping us on the shoulder.
What does it mean for me day today?
You know, a lot of us have aspirituality that says let's go
(17:45):
along to get along.
Other people have aspirituality that says all these
amazing words are just fine forSunday, but by the time we get
to the parking lot, let's getback to the world as it is.
I mean over and, over, and,over and over again.
And so the truth of the matteris, why we get to be Christian
now in this country is becausesome men and some women, some
black folks, some white folks,some rich folks, some poor folks
(18:12):
, some gay folks and somestraight folks took opportunity
to be brave and to say no, wecan't do this anymore.
We've got to do somethingdifferent.
You know, I'm reminded that Icouldn't be the Bishop of the
Diocese of Atlanta the year Iwas born, simply because I was
born as an African-American andso I didn't get here by myself.
Nobody gets to anywhere bythemselves.
There's a long line of peoplewho have been brave in big and
(18:36):
small ways, that have changednorms and made us sort of, I
guess, a more perfect union, abetter church, et cetera, et
cetera, better institutions,better families, better
organizations, and so her pointis right on the money.
What does it mean to be brave?
Melissa (18:52):
Well, friends, you can listen to the entire
conversation.
That was episode 154 thatdropped and aired on May 5th
2023.
Now, bishop, we also have twoclips from conversations that
we've had.
Bishop Wright (19:09):
Okay.
Melissa (19:11):
This first clip is episode 107 that dropped on June
17th 2022.
It was called Pride andJuneteenth.
Bishop Wright (19:23):
Apparently, it delights God that you and I
smell like love, that we smelllike unity, that we smell like
mutual care, that we smell likeneighborliness, that we smell
like generosity.
Apparently, that makes Godsmile.
And so then we have to standbefore our loving God, who loves
us and loves the world, andexplain our hatefulness.
Melissa (19:49):
First of all, I love that you said we got to smell
like love.
What does love smell like,Bishop?
Bishop Wright (19:59):
Well, look, first of all, let me just say this
there are truths that prosecannot attend to, so we have to
use poetic language.
Roses are red, violets are blue, sugar is sweet, and so are you
right.
And so what I'm trying to sayis that, you know, trying to
help people to not forget orcome away sort of arrested by
(20:19):
that that you know, love has afragrance, unity has a fragrance
.
What I could have said betteris is that they have a frequency
.
You know, there there is avibration.
Love has a vibration, unity hasa vibration, forgiveness has a
vibration.
I mean, if we wanted to talksonically, right?
So I guess what I'm just tryingto say is is that, um, to live
that, uh, it's sort of, uh, itemanates something, right, uh it
(20:44):
, it sends out something in theworld.
Communication is 70% nonverbal,which is a daunting thing to
think about.
So people sort of knowsomething about you before you
open up your mouth, and I thinkthis is why Jesus is inviting us
to take up these practices likepraying for enemy.
(21:07):
So I'm already working on my,perhaps my hatred, my
indifference, my grudges.
I'm already working on thatbefore I even get across a
coffee table with you, andhopefully that is to close the
gap between wherever I am andreal neighborliness, that I'm
(21:28):
working on that with you,because then I can sort of be
with you in a more authenticspace.
What I think we've done whichprobably doesn't smell very good
is you know, we're doing theseperformances it's kind of like
cheap perfume.
We're doing these performancesof unity.
You know I call it the churchsmile.
You know that are not genuine.
They sort of I'm smilingbecause I'm not genuine, I'm
smiling because I'm supposed to.
I'm smiling because I'mSouthern and I'm polite here in
(21:51):
the American South, etc.
And that's okay.
But that's just a performance.
And yeah, I don't know, somepeople say fake it till you make
it.
I don't know.
I think Jesus says no, don'tfake it till you make it.
Do the work in the quietness ofyour heart and in the quietness
of your prayer time.
Talk to God about it.
(22:14):
You know the Lord's prayerstill taps us on the shoulder
forgive others as you have beenforgiven, you know.
So, yeah, that's all I'm tryingto say.
I'm trying to say that, you know, moving closer to the words we
pray on Sunday authentically,you know, sends out into the
world, I think, a sound, afragrance, a vibration, and I
(22:35):
think it's palatable.
It's not palatable, rather, butit's palpable for people.
That's what I'm trying to say.
But I guess also what I'mtrying to say is is that you
know, I don't want to, I don't.
You know, some people use that,the notion of hell, you know,
sort of as a, as a sort of awhip for people you know here
(22:57):
now, and sort of sort ofbrutalize them with this notion
of hell.
And if you're not a good boyand a good girl, you're going to
be in hell.
A good girl, you're going to bein hell.
And I don't want to use thatever, because I don't think
that's actually in line with abetter read of scripture, a
deeper read of scripture.
What I want to say is that Iwould be terrified by the
(23:18):
opposite is to double down oneverything that is not love and
then find myself in the presenceof a loving God.
I think to me that would be.
You know, talk about an awkwardmoment, right, and so there I
am.
There we are, and we havemissed the mark.
And not only that, we've notcared much to do anything about
(23:41):
missing the mark in our lifetime.
And then there we are, standingin front of the whole heavenly
host lifetime.
And then there we are standingin front of the whole heavenly
host, uh, all those redeemed andforgiven, just where
forgiveness, forgiveness andlove is the currency of the
moment.
And there we are in front of aloving god and we have to sort
of say to that loving god,before even words, I think it'd
be, I'd be so, I'd be so broughtup short, just to be in the
(24:04):
presence of absolute love, right, and have you know, sort of
held on to my petty grievances,right, not use the medicine that
we have available to us inscripture and every Sunday in
worship, I'd feel real petty andreal small.
Maybe that's the hell, you know.
And to try to justify those inthe presence of a loving God,
(24:27):
that to me would be hell.
I don't need fire and brimstone, you know, to feel small at
that moment to sort of try toargue God into the way that I
decided to live, despite theclear message of his gospel.
I think that idea is hellenough for me.
Melissa (24:49):
That's right, all right , well, last but not least,
bishop, from episode 173 thataired on September 22nd 2023, it
was called Then and Now.
Bishop Wright (25:04):
Desmond Tutu asks what do you have that is not
gift?
And this is what the psalmistis always keeping in front of us
what you have, everything youhave, your intellect, your trust
fund, your good looks, yourhealthy body, the grit that you
had to stay up all night, burnthe oil and to work hard all of
that, at its core, is gift.
Melissa (25:25):
So, bishop, for what do you have to be thankful?
Bishop Wright (25:30):
We don't really have time to hear the list of
the things that I have to bethankful for, but this morning
I'm giving thanks that nighttimeturned into day, that I woke up
to hearing Robin sing.
There's an owl in my backyardto remind me of the wildness of
creation that's just outside mywindows.
I have a roof over my head.
Last night was not my lastnight.
(25:51):
I have a new opportunity withthe morning.
The azaleas are bloomingoutside, beauty is surrounding
me, my family is healthy.
My children are making theirown way towards faith.
I have good work for my hands.
I have great partners in mywork, I have a God that I still
believe in, that still gives mehope, still inspires me, I still
(26:14):
love, after all these years,reading Scripture.
I still am animated byScripture.
I mean I could go on and on.
I was just at the cathedral ourcathedral here in Atlanta, and
after worship was over on Eastermorning, you know, just
greeting the people, justlooking in the faces, young and
old.
I mean it really is a spiritualexperience for me.
(26:36):
It's just amazing to see peoplecome over the threshold of
churches around the globe andstill leaning in to hear a word
from Jesus about how they shouldlive now, and about who God is
and about what hope means andabout what real life is and
about what is really meaningfulin life.
I mean that is, I mean I givethanks for that.
I give thanks for, you know,some of the bumps in the road
(26:58):
and the speed bumps now thathave turned into my best
teachers about how to live andhow to love and how to grow up.
So, yeah, I mean I could reallygo on and on and on about that.
I mean it is all gift and Ithink if you get down into
gratitude, you know it's amazinghow that changes your
(27:18):
spirituality.
We move from an obligation, wemove from needing to be a good
boy or a good girl and trying towin favor and we move deeply
down into you know, wow, can youbelieve this?
Isn't this amazing.
Who am I to have received allof this?
I mean there are people allover the globe who don't have
(27:42):
the conveniences that I take forgranted.
There are people living on less, you know, day-to-day than I
spend for coffee.
I mean, you know, we're allprivileged to some degree and we
don't have to feel guilty aboutthat, but we ought to turn
those privileges or we'reinvited in response to all the
things given to us, invited toturn all that privilege right
(28:04):
into service and neighborliness,invited to turn all that
privilege right into service andneighborliness.
So you know, I'm glad thatsomehow that message has gotten
to me and it came, you know,through so many people lay and
ordain who you know quietly andyou know consistently, and
sometimes with an edge andsometimes softly.
You know, helped me tounderstand who Jesus is and I'm
(28:25):
still learning.
Melissa (28:27):
Well, thank goodness for that.
We're learning a lot, and weknow that we still have so much
more to learn, and to that end,we have developed a survey for
our listeners.
We're hoping that you willengage with us to help us
understand what you love aboutFor People, what you might like
to see or hear or understand asa result of your listening.
(28:51):
So, friends, you can gainaccess to this survey in the
link in the episode'sdescription.
You can also visit wwwfor.
people.
digital, and there that's anincredible resource in and of
itself.
We would highly encourage youto check that out.
Bishop, as always, I'm sograteful for you.
I'm grateful for theconversations that we get to
(29:13):
have.
I'm grateful for the ministryof the Diocese of Atlanta and
Easton.
We love you too, bud.
Bishop Wright (29:20):
I just want to say thank you is what I want to
say lastly is thank you to you,Melissa, you're a phenomenal
partner in all of this andEaston you know, in many ways
we're here because of Easton,his imagination and his hard
work.
And so just thank you to allthe folks who listen and thank
you to you two who have been,you know, inspiration for this
(29:41):
good work.
So fill out the survey, folks.
Let us know what you think sowe can make things increasingly
more useful to you.
Melissa (29:51):
Thank you for listening to For People.
Be sure to follow us onInstagram and Facebook at Bishop
Rob Wright, or by visiting www.
forpeople.
digital.
Please subscribe, leave areview and we'll be back with
you next week.
I give thanks for you know some of the bumps in
the road and the speed bumps nowthat have turned into my best
teachers and it is all gift andI think if you get down into
gratitude, you know it's amazinghow that changes your
spirituality.
We move from an obligation, wemove from needing to be a good
(00:20):
boy or a good girl and trying towin favor and we move deeply
down into wow, can you believethis?
Melissa (00:40):
Welcome to For People with Bishop Rob Wright, I'm
Melissa Rau and friends, todaywe're celebrating our 250th
episode, which is just onereason for which I'm giving
thanks today.
Just a few stats to share Inour 250 episodes, For People has
been downloaded over 330,000times and our listenership
(01:04):
represents 6,700 cities in 142countries.
Yeah, man.
So, friends, we're going to beplaying some of our recent
favorite clips over the last 150episodes, since we did this in
celebration of our centennialepisode drop, and so our first
(01:27):
clip is from the Reverend Dr.
Robert Franklin.
The Rev. Dr. Robert Franklin (01:30):
I think about moral leadership as
a people who inspire us tobecome the best versions of
ourselves ourselves.
They are able to do thatbecause moral leaders possess
(01:52):
integrity, courage, imagination,wisdom, empathy a host of
virtues that prompt them toserve the common good and prompt
them to invite others to jointhe process of building a better
community and a just society.
Melissa (02:10):
Bishop.
That's fire right there and I'mjust curious.
I mean, the list of virtues wasso good, but I really love that
he talks about inviting othersinto creating the common good.
What was your favorite partabout that clip?
Bishop Wright (02:30):
Well, you know, I think we wanted to talk to Dr.
Franklin because, you know,we're looking out at the world
and we're wondering aboutleadership, and we're wondering
about a particular kind ofleadership, that's moral
leadership.
You know people who areethically minded, or you know
people who are are ethicallyminded, or you know who are, you
know, tethered to morals thatbenefit the entire human family,
and I just wanted to.
(02:51):
You know, what I love about,you know, this podcast is that
we get to seek wisdom from lotsof different kinds of people,
and over all these years, we'vejust been cold calling people
and ask them hey, would you joinme for 20 minutes?
You know online, and ask them,hey, would you join me for 20
minutes online?
And they have said yes, reallysignificant intellects, people
with big hearts and just sort ofbright minds, and so, yeah, I
(03:13):
wanted to talk about moralleadership.
One of the reasons why wefounded this podcast was to keep
the conversation going.
It was born in COVID.
Our podcast was but to keep theconversation going.
It was born in COVID.
Our podcast was but to keep theconversation going about God
and about leadership.
And so you know, Dr.
Franklin was sort of an obviouschoice to have a conversation
(03:34):
with about all of this and Ihope also to make some of us
really commit to in ourlistening of his wonderful words
, that behavior inspiring withintegrity.
You know others in, you knowrunning to the ends of our own
capacity and inviting others torun to the end of their capacity
(03:55):
to do good.
So, yeah, he's like a perfectchoice.
And you know he's also justsort of a friend here in Atlanta
.
He's someone that I can call upand check in with and I think
you know that's the other partof moral leadership for all of
us is that you know, are theresome people let's call them
ancestors, wise elders that youknow you got on speed dial, that
(04:17):
you can check in with whenthings get gray or you get to
important intersections, and sohe is one of those people for me
.
Melissa (04:24):
Excellent.
Well, I'm glad, and, friends,you can listen to the entire
conversation.
That was from our 240th episode, dropped on February 7th 2025.
So I'd encourage you to listento the entire thing if you
haven't already done so, friends.
Our next clip is fromArchbishop Hosam Elias Naom,
(04:46):
Archbishop of Jerusalem and theMiddle East.
Archbishop Hosam Naoum (04:50):
What verse would speak to me most at
this time as solace and asreassurance that God is with us?
God will continue to guide usand guard us as we go through
these difficult times.
Continue to guide us and guardus as we go through these
difficult times.
And I couldn't find any verseexcept the one that was my like
motto, like that was the themeof my ministry as a bishop, and
(05:14):
that is John 10.10.
I came that they may have lifeand have it in abundance.
Maybe we can't see abundance atthis time.
We see scarcity and need andlack of everything, but I think
we trust and hope that God isthere and God will, with his
(05:35):
abundance, shower us with hislove and grace and hope so that
we may continue to persevere, tohave resilience, in order to go
through this time and we comeout stronger so that we may
bring life to others around us
Melissa (05:57):
And I don't know about you, I just wonder.
Sometimes I feel like God showsup in abundance through us.
So how might we be?
What do you think?
What's hitting you?
Bishop Wright (06:08):
Well, I mean, I'm remembering that podcast and
I'm remembering the recording ofdoing.
You know 250 episodes now youknow there's only been one
podcast that at the end ofrecording it I was very
emotional.
You know, he's the Archbishopof Jerusalem in the Middle East,
and the hospital that wasbombed in Gaza was his hospital.
(06:32):
He's had young people killed onthe steps of his cathedral.
He traces his Christian lineageall the way back to Pentecost
In the book of Acts.
He is an Israeli citizen andalso ethnically a Palestinian,
(06:53):
and I just was so struck and amso struck that he still has hope
in what looks like a hopelesssituation and has looked like a
hopeless situation.
You know, my entire 61 yearsand, and here this man with
sincere hope and deep faith, uh,gets up every day and tries to
(07:16):
remind people there in aterribly conflicted region that
they are siblings, uh, and thatnobody is going to win.
You know, in the way we'represently sort of fighting this
war, I was just so deeply struckby that and, you know, I think
(07:36):
that, maybe even selfishly, Ithink that we need people like
Archbishop Hosam in our livesbecause sometimes we encounter
hardship et cetera, and thoughwe shouldn't do comparative
suffering, I think sometimes itdoes help us to be a little more
(08:00):
other-centered and a littleless self-centered.
You know what's that wonderfulquote from Bob Marley?
Every man thinks that hisburden is the heaviest, and then
you meet someone carryingliterally the burden of a region
on you know his broad andloving shoulders, and it just
sort of jogs you back intoreality.
(08:21):
And so I guess I walked awayfrom that, back into reality,
and so I guess I walked awayfrom that really understanding
at a newer level what a gifthope is, because I mean, if he
doesn't have hope he can't dowhat he's doing.
I mean, duty won't get you asfar and duty won't keep you, as
(08:42):
you know, buoyant as far andduty won't keep you, as you know
, buoyant.
There's some sort of deep hopethat is driving him to try to,
you know, find a way out of noway.
And just think about it for aminute.
You know he has faith in Godand you know sometimes, if you
know, if things don't turn outfor us, you know, in a week, a
(09:04):
month or a or a year, we'rewilling to sort of walk away
from God or call the whole faithenterprise foolishness, and
this man's entire life and notonly his entire life, but the
entire life of his family storyhas been wrapped up in a
situation that has not beenresolved Flashes of peace,
(09:25):
flashes of prosperity foreverybody, but still living in
an apartheid society, and yet hestill believes in God.
So faith is, you know, beliefstretched over time and you know
just the embodiment of him.
I mean he's just the absoluteembodiment of that for me and
just, completely, withoutpretense and guile, absolutely
(09:48):
sincere.
I was glad to greet him afterthe podcast.
I was glad to greet him inperson at our last general
convention that we have everythree years in Louisville,
Kentucky.
Melissa (10:01):
That was episode 180 that dropped on November 6th
2023.
An incredibly timeless andinspiring episode.
Our next clip is from staterepresentative James Talarico.
I have to say this is one of myvery favorite all-time episodes
.
It was fabulous.
(10:22):
Let's give a listen.
State Representative (10:24):
Democracy .
To me, as a Christian and anelected official, it's a
spiritual practice, and thereason that it's spiritual is
that it requires a few things.
It requires that we listen toour neighbors.
That's kind of fundamental tothe idea of all of us living
together in peace.
It requires that we have kindof the humility to recognize
(10:45):
that we don't have all the rightanswers.
It requires that we resolve ourconflicts nonviolently and this
is probably the hardest part ofall.
It requires that we give uppower when we lose, when we lose
at the ballot box.
And that again, I really thinkthat the reason I think
democracy is so special and thereason I think democracy is a
(11:07):
Christian value is becausethat's directly aligned with the
Gospel the idea of giving uppower, of self-emptying for
others.
Melissa (11:18):
So that, of course, is from your four-part series of
Christian nationalism.
Leading up to the 2024 election, you had four big conversations
.
This one happened to be, myfavorite, and so you know he's
young.
I think he's from Texas, right?
Bishop Wright (11:36):
Oh yeah, His roots are way deep in Texas.
Yeah.
Melissa (11:39):
So he really knocked my socks off.
Bishop, what really spoke outto you most about your
conversation with him?
Bishop Wright (11:45):
Well, again, you know, just a cold call to him.
Someone forwarded a video to meof him speaking in a
congregation.
This young sort of, you know,he's got a fresh face, you know,
state representative from Texasand just talking about why
Christian nationalism, you know,isn't Christian and I was so
(12:07):
struck by his clarity.
And also, as a staterepresentative, you know, in in
in Texas, this is a guy who istrying to literally, you know,
without being antagonistic, istrying to sort of talk to people
about how democracy is, is infact spiritual, it's, it's best
practices, and uh, and so I hadto get him on.
(12:30):
Cold called him and he said yes, and I found out even more that
not only is he a staterepresentative, he's actually a
seminarian.
Uh, actually, you know,pursuing ordination and uh, you
know, if you can Google him,James Talarico, spell it like it
sounds.
It's just an amazing video.
But I loved him for his clarity,bright mind, he's a Harvard guy
(12:53):
, smart, fella, but hiswonderful flourishes about
neighborliness and democracybeing about, really, at the end
of it, about neighborliness,about how we're going to live
together and what are theguardrails on that, and then
also calling out, I think youknow, what I would like to call
(13:21):
fraudulent Christianity, whichtries to use Jesus and a little
bit of his sort, of his appealto really mobilize greed and
exclus and really brutality, andso he's so clear about that and
so I think I thought thatpeople really need to hear from
somebody who tries to live inboth those worlds every day.
He's trying to advance you knowthe state of Texas, the best
parts of it trying to take careof the people through policy et
(13:43):
cetera, and at the same time hasa really palpable and deep
connection, you know, to Jesusof Nazareth and trying to live
that out and trying to sort oflive in both those worlds.
So an amazing young fella and Ireally loved just watching his
mind work on these subjects.
Melissa (14:00):
Our last clip, friends, is from the Right Reverend
Mariann Budde, who happens to bethe Episcopal Bishop of the
Diocese of Washington.
Bishop Mariann Budde (14:10):
There are, I think, for all of us, these
moments that we can look back onand we kind of hang our life
story on.
That were moments we made achoice.
We made a choice to dosomething or to be a kind of
person, and it was conscious andit was a stretch right, it was
a stretch and it put us into, Ithink, a mode of discovery and a
(14:36):
mode of vulnerability.
Melissa (14:39):
So, of course, this is a very relevant message, and you
had a conversation with BishopBuddE well before the prayer
service that was held at theNational Cathedral.
It was after 2020 and after shedid a brave thing and she had
then since written a book calledHow We Learned to Be Brave, and
(15:00):
of course, I think whathappened in 2024 and the prayer
service just launched that to be, I think, a bestseller.
Bishop Wright (15:07):
Yeah, well, I mean, I think it's important to
underscore the fact that youknow, Bishop Mariann and I have
been longtime colleagues andhave been thought partners
together about lots of things,and you know, and inviting her
on the podcast was well inadvance of her remarks at the
2025 prayer meeting thePresident Trump, and so what's
(15:32):
interesting to note here is isthat she's been working on in
her own mind and heart what doesit mean to be brave?
How does faith inform bravery,and and you know, what are the
sort of the constituent parts ofwhat it means to be brave and
she laid that out, you know,sort of in the clip.
Now, I think, whether you agreewith her comments to President
(15:54):
Trump and all those assembled,you know, in the Washington
National Cathedral or not, Ithink what's redeemable here and
what needs to be thought aboutby anybody who's intending to be
faithful, is is that so what isbravery actually look like?
Right, so it may not look like,you know, speaking from a
(16:15):
pulpit to a president, um, butwhat else?
What else might it mean, though, for us who don't have a pulpit
and don't get to addresspresidents?
Uh, does it look like youcannot argue reasonably that
bravery is not a part of what itmeans to follow Jesus.
You cannot argue that.
(16:35):
I mean, we're in Easter, hereright now, and you know, just a
little while ago we werewatching Jesus enter Jerusalem
on a donkey to literally, tospeak a nonverbal message to
political power, butnevertheless it was driven by a
(16:56):
certain spiritual bravery.
So bravery, again and again andagain, throughout Scripture,
whether Old or New Testament,you know, is present and is a
part of what it means to befaithful and what it means to
trust God.
It has everything to do withbearing witness.
And so again, whether we agreewith Bishop Buddy or not, the
question for us is so how hasfaith made you brave to go in
(17:22):
different directions, to leavethe status quo, to risk
something, to be vulnerable,simply because you want to be in
step with Jesus?
And so I think her question forus is alive and it keeps
tapping us on the shoulder.
What does it mean for me day today?
You know, a lot of us have aspirituality that says let's go
(17:45):
along to get along.
Other people have aspirituality that says all these
amazing words are just fine forSunday, but by the time we get
to the parking lot, let's getback to the world as it is.
I mean over and, over, and,over and over again.
And so the truth of the matteris, why we get to be Christian
now in this country is becausesome men and some women, some
black folks, some white folks,some rich folks, some poor folks
(18:12):
, some gay folks and somestraight folks took opportunity
to be brave and to say no, wecan't do this anymore.
We've got to do somethingdifferent.
You know, I'm reminded that Icouldn't be the Bishop of the
Diocese of Atlanta the year Iwas born, simply because I was
born as an African-American andso I didn't get here by myself.
Nobody gets to anywhere bythemselves.
There's a long line of peoplewho have been brave in big and
(18:36):
small ways, that have changednorms and made us sort of, I
guess, a more perfect union, abetter church, et cetera, et
cetera, better institutions,better families, better
organizations, and so her pointis right on the money.
What does it mean to be brave?
Melissa (18:52):
Well, friends, you can listen to the entire
conversation.
That was episode 154 thatdropped and aired on May 5th
2023.
Now, bishop, we also have twoclips from conversations that
we've had.
Bishop Wright (19:09):
Okay.
Melissa (19:11):
This first clip is episode 107 that dropped on June
17th 2022.
It was called Pride andJuneteenth.
Bishop Wright (19:23):
Apparently, it delights God that you and I
smell like love, that we smelllike unity, that we smell like
mutual care, that we smell likeneighborliness, that we smell
like generosity.
Apparently, that makes Godsmile.
And so then we have to standbefore our loving God, who loves
us and loves the world, andexplain our hatefulness.
Melissa (19:49):
First of all, I love that you said we got to smell
like love.
What does love smell like,Bishop?
Bishop Wright (19:59):
Well, look, first of all, let me just say this
there are truths that prosecannot attend to, so we have to
use poetic language.
Roses are red, violets are blue, sugar is sweet, and so are you
right.
And so what I'm trying to sayis that, you know, trying to
help people to not forget orcome away sort of arrested by
(20:19):
that that you know, love has afragrance, unity has a fragrance
.
What I could have said betteris is that they have a frequency
.
You know, there there is avibration.
Love has a vibration, unity hasa vibration, forgiveness has a
vibration.
I mean, if we wanted to talksonically, right?
So I guess what I'm just tryingto say is is that, um, to live
that, uh, it's sort of, uh, itemanates something, right, uh it
(20:44):
, it sends out something in theworld.
Communication is 70% nonverbal,which is a daunting thing to
think about.
So people sort of knowsomething about you before you
open up your mouth, and I thinkthis is why Jesus is inviting us
to take up these practices likepraying for enemy.
(21:07):
So I'm already working on my,perhaps my hatred, my
indifference, my grudges.
I'm already working on thatbefore I even get across a
coffee table with you, andhopefully that is to close the
gap between wherever I am andreal neighborliness, that I'm
(21:28):
working on that with you,because then I can sort of be
with you in a more authenticspace.
What I think we've done whichprobably doesn't smell very good
is you know, we're doing theseperformances it's kind of like
cheap perfume.
We're doing these performancesof unity.
You know I call it the churchsmile.
You know that are not genuine.
They sort of I'm smilingbecause I'm not genuine, I'm
smiling because I'm supposed to.
I'm smiling because I'mSouthern and I'm polite here in
(21:51):
the American South, etc.
And that's okay.
But that's just a performance.
And yeah, I don't know, somepeople say fake it till you make
it.
I don't know.
I think Jesus says no, don'tfake it till you make it.
Do the work in the quietness ofyour heart and in the quietness
of your prayer time.
Talk to God about it.
(22:14):
You know the Lord's prayerstill taps us on the shoulder
forgive others as you have beenforgiven, you know.
So, yeah, that's all I'm tryingto say.
I'm trying to say that, you know, moving closer to the words we
pray on Sunday authentically,you know, sends out into the
world, I think, a sound, afragrance, a vibration, and I
(22:35):
think it's palatable.
It's not palatable, rather, butit's palpable for people.
That's what I'm trying to say.
But I guess also what I'mtrying to say is is that you
know, I don't want to, I don't.
You know, some people use that,the notion of hell, you know,
sort of as a, as a sort of awhip for people you know here
(22:57):
now, and sort of sort ofbrutalize them with this notion
of hell.
And if you're not a good boyand a good girl, you're going to
be in hell.
A good girl, you're going to bein hell.
And I don't want to use thatever, because I don't think
that's actually in line with abetter read of scripture, a
deeper read of scripture.
What I want to say is that Iwould be terrified by the
(23:18):
opposite is to double down oneverything that is not love and
then find myself in the presenceof a loving God.
I think to me that would be.
You know, talk about an awkwardmoment, right, and so there I
am.
There we are, and we havemissed the mark.
And not only that, we've notcared much to do anything about
(23:41):
missing the mark in our lifetime.
And then there we are, standingin front of the whole heavenly
host lifetime.
And then there we are standingin front of the whole heavenly
host, uh, all those redeemed andforgiven, just where
forgiveness, forgiveness andlove is the currency of the
moment.
And there we are in front of aloving god and we have to sort
of say to that loving god,before even words, I think it'd
be, I'd be so, I'd be so broughtup short, just to be in the
(24:04):
presence of absolute love, right, and have you know, sort of
held on to my petty grievances,right, not use the medicine that
we have available to us inscripture and every Sunday in
worship, I'd feel real petty andreal small.
Maybe that's the hell, you know.
And to try to justify those inthe presence of a loving God,
(24:27):
that to me would be hell.
I don't need fire and brimstone, you know, to feel small at
that moment to sort of try toargue God into the way that I
decided to live, despite theclear message of his gospel.
I think that idea is hellenough for me.
Melissa (24:49):
That's right, all right , well, last but not least,
bishop, from episode 173 thataired on September 22nd 2023, it
was called Then and Now.
Bishop Wright (25:04):
Desmond Tutu asks what do you have that is not
gift?
And this is what the psalmistis always keeping in front of us
what you have, everything youhave, your intellect, your trust
fund, your good looks, yourhealthy body, the grit that you
had to stay up all night, burnthe oil and to work hard all of
that, at its core, is gift.
Melissa (25:25):
So, bishop, for what do you have to be thankful?
Bishop Wright (25:30):
We don't really have time to hear the list of
the things that I have to bethankful for, but this morning
I'm giving thanks that nighttimeturned into day, that I woke up
to hearing Robin sing.
There's an owl in my backyardto remind me of the wildness of
creation that's just outside mywindows.
I have a roof over my head.
Last night was not my lastnight.
(25:51):
I have a new opportunity withthe morning.
The azaleas are bloomingoutside, beauty is surrounding
me, my family is healthy.
My children are making theirown way towards faith.
I have good work for my hands.
I have great partners in mywork, I have a God that I still
believe in, that still gives mehope, still inspires me, I still
(26:14):
love, after all these years,reading Scripture.
I still am animated byScripture.
I mean I could go on and on.
I was just at the cathedral ourcathedral here in Atlanta, and
after worship was over on Eastermorning, you know, just
greeting the people, justlooking in the faces, young and
old.
I mean it really is a spiritualexperience for me.
(26:36):
It's just amazing to see peoplecome over the threshold of
churches around the globe andstill leaning in to hear a word
from Jesus about how they shouldlive now, and about who God is
and about what hope means andabout what real life is and
about what is really meaningfulin life.
I mean that is, I mean I givethanks for that.
I give thanks for, you know,some of the bumps in the road
(26:58):
and the speed bumps now thathave turned into my best
teachers about how to live andhow to love and how to grow up.
So, yeah, I mean I could reallygo on and on and on about that.
I mean it is all gift and Ithink if you get down into
gratitude, you know it's amazinghow that changes your
(27:18):
spirituality.
We move from an obligation, wemove from needing to be a good
boy or a good girl and trying towin favor and we move deeply
down into you know, wow, can youbelieve this?
Isn't this amazing.
Who am I to have received allof this?
I mean there are people allover the globe who don't have
(27:42):
the conveniences that I take forgranted.
There are people living on less, you know, day-to-day than I
spend for coffee.
I mean, you know, we're allprivileged to some degree and we
don't have to feel guilty aboutthat, but we ought to turn
those privileges or we'reinvited in response to all the
things given to us, invited toturn all that privilege right
(28:04):
into service and neighborliness,invited to turn all that
privilege right into service andneighborliness.
So you know, I'm glad thatsomehow that message has gotten
to me and it came, you know,through so many people lay and
ordain who you know quietly andyou know consistently, and
sometimes with an edge andsometimes softly.
You know, helped me tounderstand who Jesus is and I'm
(28:25):
still learning.
Melissa (28:27):
Well, thank goodness for that.
We're learning a lot, and weknow that we still have so much
more to learn, and to that end,we have developed a survey for
our listeners.
We're hoping that you willengage with us to help us
understand what you love aboutFor People, what you might like
to see or hear or understand asa result of your listening.
(28:51):
So, friends, you can gainaccess to this survey in the
link in the episode'sdescription.
You can also visit wwwfor.
people.
digital, and there that's anincredible resource in and of
itself.
We would highly encourage youto check that out.
Bishop, as always, I'm sograteful for you.
I'm grateful for theconversations that we get to
(29:13):
have.
I'm grateful for the ministryof the Diocese of Atlanta and
Easton.
We love you too, bud.
Bishop Wright (29:20):
I just want to say thank you is what I want to
say lastly is thank you to you,Melissa, you're a phenomenal
partner in all of this andEaston you know, in many ways
we're here because of Easton,his imagination and his hard
work.
And so just thank you to allthe folks who listen and thank
you to you two who have been,you know, inspiration for this
(29:41):
good work.
So fill out the survey, folks.
Let us know what you think sowe can make things increasingly
more useful to you.
Melissa (29:51):
Thank you for listening to For People.
Be sure to follow us onInstagram and Facebook at Bishop
Rob Wright, or by visiting www.
forpeople.
digital.
Please subscribe, leave areview and we'll be back with
you next week.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!