September 12, 2025 • 14 mins
What does it really mean to be a sinner? When stripped to its Greek roots, sin simply means "missing the mark."
In this episode, Melissa and Bishop Wright have a conversation about sin and what Jesus' approach. The religious elite's biggest complaint against Jesus? That he dined with and welcomed those who missed the mark. "Now that's my kind of God," Bishop Wright reflects. This divine comfort with imperfect people creates a powerful invitation for all of us to bring our whole selves to faith.
Read For Faith, the companion devotional.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bishop Wright (00:01):
So Jesus is doing us a great service.
And now this was the biggestcomplaint that they had with
Jesus, all the fine religiouspeople that he whined and dined
with them and he welcomed them.
Right, Think about it for asecond right.
He whined and dined with them,he welcomed them.
He found himself comfortablewith people who missed the mark.
(00:22):
Now, that's my kind of God.
Melissa (00:45):
Welcome to For People with Bishop Rob Wright.
I'm Melissa Rau and this is aconversation inspired by Four
Faith, a weekly devotion sentout every Friday.
You can find a link to thisweek's Four Faith and a link to
subscribe in the episode'sdescription.
Today we are having our fourthconversation on what Bishop
Wright is framing his devotionsand conversations on the theme
We Believe, and our fourth topicis we Believe we Are All
(01:08):
Sinners, based on Luke, chapter15, verses 1 through 10.
Bishop, that's a big, boldstatement right there.
mean to be a sinner.
Bishop Wright (01:22):
Oh my gosh, oh my gosh.
Well, let me just say at thebeginning I think it's important
to establish this as sort of alevel, set right as the ground
underneath our feet, becausefrom that ground, you know, we
get to be with one another innew ways, we get to be for one
another in new ways, one anotherin new ways, you know.
(01:47):
So, when the Bible talks aboutsin and sinners, it's talking
about in the Greek, it's justtalking about that we miss right
.
And I mean, come on, I mean,can we get that honest?
I mean that's not that hard.
It doesn't seem to say I miss, Imiss at things that I think I'm
actually, you know, winning at.
I miss, I have blind spots, Ihave biases, I have ignorance in
(02:08):
the literal sense of that word.
There are things that I don'tknow.
I have ego needs, I have pride,and maybe I'm not the only
sinner who's listening today.
I have all these sorts ofthings and I'm not a terrible
person, and I don't have allthese sorts of things and I'm
not a terrible person and Idon't have, as far as I can tell
, I don't have terribleself-worth.
(02:32):
But what's really generativeabout saying that I'm a sinner
is it's just descriptive.
I also have 10 toes, I alsohave 10 fingers, I also have two
ears.
You know, it's just descriptive.
It's what makes up a human, Ithink.
And so you know you won't besurprised that while some people
want to duck or, you know, sortof evade this language, I think
(02:54):
at a time like we findourselves in now, we have to
center this language.
But maybe we need to bring somelightness to it and maybe we
need to bring a little sunshineto it.
But at the end of the day, youknow, this word is just trying
to help us describe thecondition that we find ourselves
in.
Melissa (03:12):
Yeah, you know, I have to say, when I read this I
actually felt relief, Bishop.
I was like oh dang, that meanseverybody else is, that means I
am, we all are.
And whoo, isn't there somerelief in that?
Bishop Wright (03:24):
Perfect people make me nervous, right?
I mean, I have nothing.
If you're a perfect person, godbless you.
I just have nothing in commonwith you.
Right, I'd like to be seated inthe center section of the
church.
Right, that's my section.
Right?
It's not that the in the waythat I I injure others or I
(03:47):
injure myself, or or my pride ormy greed, it's not that I bask
in it.
But I think we've got to startby naming it Right.
You know the way to control,begin to control something is to
name it.
We know that Right.
And to you know, to name it isto begin to start to have power
over it.
And so Jesus is doing us agreat service.
(04:09):
And now, this was the biggestcomplaint that they had with
Jesus, all the fine religiouspeople, that he whined and dined
with them, and he welcomed them.
Right, think about it for asecond right.
He whined and dined with them,he welcomed them.
He found himself comfortablewith people who missed the mark.
Now, that's my kind of God,right.
Melissa (04:31):
Yeah Well, as I was thinking about this Bishop, it's
interesting to me.
I was thinking of the imageryof an archery like a target and
it's like all right to win, yougot to hit the bullseye, right.
That's nailing it, Nailing itright.
Bishop Wright (04:45):
Yeah right.
Melissa (04:46):
And yet sometimes I think we all get caught up by
how far we miss, yeah, and wecompare like, oh well, you're
closer or you're not, and Idon't know.
What do you think Jesus wouldhave to say about how far we
miss the mark?
Bishop Wright (04:59):
Oh my gosh.
Well, I think is absolutelycritical, and that is even in
our sinfulness.
We sin.
Let me tell you what I mean.
Let me tell you what I meanSometimes.
Sometimes we can get sodespairing about the fact that
(05:19):
we miss right.
It's like a deep hole that wedon't ever want to get ourselves
out of.
Sometimes, part of sinfulnessis the need to punish ourselves
for our sin.
But here comes Jesus sayingyou're forgiven.
I mean, in this wonderfullesson from Luke, the 15th
chapter, he said that there's arejoicing in heaven when you and
I sort of name it and begin tofind our way back through the
(05:41):
glory, through the goodness ofGod and through the grace of the
Holy Spirit, way back throughthe glory, you know, through the
goodness of God and through thegrace of the Holy Spirit.
So I think that one of thethings we've got to do for
ourselves is decide that we arenot judge and jury.
And so I've got to decide in mysinfulness, maybe even in my
need to punish myself for doingsome things or saying some
(06:01):
things or not saying some things, or not doing some things, I've
got to say that I'm going tolatch myself to how Jesus thinks
about sinning right and howJesus thinks about sinners.
And so it's an interestingthing that sin can mean that we
put ourselves in the judge andjury seat.
(06:22):
It's always with thede-centering judge and jury seat
rather than it's always withthe decentering, rather than
saying God, what is your view,through Jesus's life, his ways,
his words, about how we handlethis moment and how I handle
this moment is is that I realizethat and I've said this again
and again that I am in Jesus'seyes more than any debt, my
(06:42):
worst day, my worst decision ormy worst deed.
So if I am those things inJesus's eyes, even in my worst,
as I sin, then in Jesus.
Jesus is then therefore the onethat I can trust with my sin
Right, and it's not that I get apass and we can talk about
(07:02):
consequences, if we want to, towrongheaded behavior.
We can talk about that.
But I just want to getestablished that there is
creative possibility with thisword, and what I like about this
word is that it puts me witheverybody.
It condemns this word sin,condemns my superiority
complexes If we are those peoplewho bear those complexes or my
(07:26):
need to be superior or separate.
It condemns that just byholding up the word, because it
says that we all fall short.
Now, that's a party I want togo to, where everybody in the
room knows that they fall short,and this is why I think going
to church is important.
Let me just say that Going tochurch is important because we
are gathered with other peoplewho fall short, and that may be
(07:49):
the best thing that we have tooffer the world.
In the church, which is here,is a space intentionally
constructed for all of us whomiss the mark, so that we can
hear again that Jesus loves andforgives us and that we can give
it another try in the weekahead.
And so I still think that thatis a unique purpose for our
(08:09):
church, and I think people needto go there now, maybe more than
ever, because that I mean,where else do you go that holds
up that banner?
There's nowhere that comes tomind for me where I can go, and
I can acknowledge other places.
I have to go, or we go, chooseto go.
We have to project a manicuredlife.
Melissa (08:51):
Well, okay, so the theme forgiveness is popping up
and bubbling up in me.
Bishop Wright (08:56):
Sure.
Melissa (08:57):
Kind of like what you said.
And yet how can we forgive ifthere's not a bit of an
interrogation aka judgmenttowards oneself and others or
others?
Do you have any thoughts aboutthat, because that's a little
complicated.
Bishop Wright (09:09):
Well, yeah, you're moving forward into
forgiveness, and what I want todo is I want to stop a minute
and center the word sin, becauseI think when we realize who we
are, then we start to realizewhat's the next step in the
sequence of events.
But, yeah, I mean, if I'm asinner and this is why the last
line of this meditation, I think, is important you know, once I
(09:30):
realize what my condition isright, when I realize, you know
that you know I'm a decentperson but I failed to do the
good that I should do or Icontinue to practice the wrong
that I know I should shun, youknow, then I start to understand
that life is more than logicand there's something about this
(09:53):
human condition that poets andauthors and songwriters have
tried to describe for millennia.
And if we have thisthree-letter word, that begins
to help us right, begins to helpus realize who we are.
That's reflection, that's adepth of reflection, and I think
(10:20):
that the best movement intoforgiveness for us is to
actually realize the ways inwhich I've offended God and the
ways in which I have offendedothers, and the ways in which I
have offended my own self, myown dignity, etc.
And so to me.
What I like about the word sinis that this is grown-up stuff.
This is stuff for thinkingpeople, people who are not
(10:40):
afraid of the quiet that canconsider their life, who are not
addicted to innocence.
James Baldwin's famous quote Ifyou're not addicted to always
playing the victim or needing tobe innocent, then you can let
things be as they are and youcan hear the ways in which you
(11:02):
have missed and realize thatthat lays beside all the days
that you didn't miss and that weare actually both right.
Jesus gives us in thiswonderful little story about
heaven rejoicing at sinners, youknow, turning around, making a
U-turn, this notion that this isa cosmic thing and that the way
(11:27):
forward for all of us that endsup being a communal thing for
us is for us to acknowledge thefact that we missed the mark and
then take all of that to aloving God.
Melissa (11:38):
So would you say, levels of sin is irrelevant?
Bishop Wright (11:42):
No, Well, I wouldn't say that it's
irrelevant.
I mean, if that's the kind ofconversation we want to have
about a hierarchy of sin, okay,that's fine, we can do that, and
we spend some time on that inthe church.
We talk about that a little bitin Lent purposes.
(12:09):
I think what I really wantpeople to do this is an
invitation is just to be able tolay claim to all the parts of
your life.
Look the smart people, thetherapists and the psychiatrists
.
They want to talk about, youknow, an integration of all of
our experiences in life.
You know, we don't have to keepthings you know in a
metaphorical sort of lockbox,thrown into the outer darkness
of our psyche.
You know, the good news is isthat, you know, as we give these
(12:33):
things to God, as we reflect onthese things and offer them to
God and view ourselves throughGod's loving eyes, then we can
integrate all of who we havebeen.
Look, the best ambassadors forGod are people who can embrace
all of who they've been, all ofwho they've been, and I think
when we do that, we are wholeW-H-O-L-E, and I think that's
(12:56):
the way towards holiness isrealizing in God's eyes I have
dignity, worth and value andit's not predicated upon me
having a perfect record book.
That's not the way that Godseems to be judging.
God seems to be judging withthe full knowledge that we will
(13:17):
miss.
But the question is now thatyou've missed, what do you want
to do?
Melissa (13:23):
And therein lies the liberation.
Bishop Wright (13:25):
Yes, precisely right.
What I like to to say is youmentioned last week about
freedom.
Well, the real freedom andhealth is acknowledging that we
fall short and accepting thislove, this welcome home love, as
you walk down the new path.
Melissa (13:46):
And we believe we are all sinners.
Bishop Wright (13:48):
We believe we are all sinners and hallelujah, god
loves sinners.
Melissa (13:53):
Indeed.
Thank goodness for that Bishopthank you for such a great
conversation and listeners.
Thank you for listening to ForPeople.
You can follow us on Instagramand Facebook at Bishop Rob
Wright, or by visiting www.
forpeople.
digital.
Please subscribe, leave areview and we'll be back with
you next week.
So Jesus is doing us a great service.
And now this was the biggestcomplaint that they had with
Jesus, all the fine religiouspeople that he whined and dined
with them and he welcomed them.
Right, Think about it for asecond right.
He whined and dined with them,he welcomed them.
He found himself comfortablewith people who missed the mark.
(00:22):
Now, that's my kind of God.
Melissa (00:45):
Welcome to For People with Bishop Rob Wright.
I'm Melissa Rau and this is aconversation inspired by Four
Faith, a weekly devotion sentout every Friday.
You can find a link to thisweek's Four Faith and a link to
subscribe in the episode'sdescription.
Today we are having our fourthconversation on what Bishop
Wright is framing his devotionsand conversations on the theme
We Believe, and our fourth topicis we Believe we Are All
(01:08):
Sinners, based on Luke, chapter15, verses 1 through 10.
Bishop, that's a big, boldstatement right there.
mean to be a sinner.
Bishop Wright (01:22):
Oh my gosh, oh my gosh.
Well, let me just say at thebeginning I think it's important
to establish this as sort of alevel, set right as the ground
underneath our feet, becausefrom that ground, you know, we
get to be with one another innew ways, we get to be for one
another in new ways, one anotherin new ways, you know.
(01:47):
So, when the Bible talks aboutsin and sinners, it's talking
about in the Greek, it's justtalking about that we miss right
.
And I mean, come on, I mean,can we get that honest?
I mean that's not that hard.
It doesn't seem to say I miss, Imiss at things that I think I'm
actually, you know, winning at.
I miss, I have blind spots, Ihave biases, I have ignorance in
(02:08):
the literal sense of that word.
There are things that I don'tknow.
I have ego needs, I have pride,and maybe I'm not the only
sinner who's listening today.
I have all these sorts ofthings and I'm not a terrible
person, and I don't have allthese sorts of things and I'm
not a terrible person and Idon't have, as far as I can tell
, I don't have terribleself-worth.
(02:32):
But what's really generativeabout saying that I'm a sinner
is it's just descriptive.
I also have 10 toes, I alsohave 10 fingers, I also have two
ears.
You know, it's just descriptive.
It's what makes up a human, Ithink.
And so you know you won't besurprised that while some people
want to duck or, you know, sortof evade this language, I think
(02:54):
at a time like we findourselves in now, we have to
center this language.
But maybe we need to bring somelightness to it and maybe we
need to bring a little sunshineto it.
But at the end of the day, youknow, this word is just trying
to help us describe thecondition that we find ourselves
in.
Melissa (03:12):
Yeah, you know, I have to say, when I read this I
actually felt relief, Bishop.
I was like oh dang, that meanseverybody else is, that means I
am, we all are.
And whoo, isn't there somerelief in that?
Bishop Wright (03:24):
Perfect people make me nervous, right?
I mean, I have nothing.
If you're a perfect person, godbless you.
I just have nothing in commonwith you.
Right, I'd like to be seated inthe center section of the
church.
Right, that's my section.
Right?
It's not that the in the waythat I I injure others or I
(03:47):
injure myself, or or my pride ormy greed, it's not that I bask
in it.
But I think we've got to startby naming it Right.
You know the way to control,begin to control something is to
name it.
We know that Right.
And to you know, to name it isto begin to start to have power
over it.
And so Jesus is doing us agreat service.
(04:09):
And now, this was the biggestcomplaint that they had with
Jesus, all the fine religiouspeople, that he whined and dined
with them, and he welcomed them.
Right, think about it for asecond right.
He whined and dined with them,he welcomed them.
He found himself comfortablewith people who missed the mark.
Now, that's my kind of God,right.
Melissa (04:31):
Yeah Well, as I was thinking about this Bishop, it's
interesting to me.
I was thinking of the imageryof an archery like a target and
it's like all right to win, yougot to hit the bullseye, right.
That's nailing it, Nailing itright.
Bishop Wright (04:45):
Yeah right.
Melissa (04:46):
And yet sometimes I think we all get caught up by
how far we miss, yeah, and wecompare like, oh well, you're
closer or you're not, and Idon't know.
What do you think Jesus wouldhave to say about how far we
miss the mark?
Bishop Wright (04:59):
Oh my gosh.
Well, I think is absolutelycritical, and that is even in
our sinfulness.
We sin.
Let me tell you what I mean.
Let me tell you what I meanSometimes.
Sometimes we can get sodespairing about the fact that
(05:19):
we miss right.
It's like a deep hole that wedon't ever want to get ourselves
out of.
Sometimes, part of sinfulnessis the need to punish ourselves
for our sin.
But here comes Jesus sayingyou're forgiven.
I mean, in this wonderfullesson from Luke, the 15th
chapter, he said that there's arejoicing in heaven when you and
I sort of name it and begin tofind our way back through the
(05:41):
glory, through the goodness ofGod and through the grace of the
Holy Spirit, way back throughthe glory, you know, through the
goodness of God and through thegrace of the Holy Spirit.
So I think that one of thethings we've got to do for
ourselves is decide that we arenot judge and jury.
And so I've got to decide in mysinfulness, maybe even in my
need to punish myself for doingsome things or saying some
(06:01):
things or not saying some things, or not doing some things, I've
got to say that I'm going tolatch myself to how Jesus thinks
about sinning right and howJesus thinks about sinners.
And so it's an interestingthing that sin can mean that we
put ourselves in the judge andjury seat.
(06:22):
It's always with thede-centering judge and jury seat
rather than it's always withthe decentering, rather than
saying God, what is your view,through Jesus's life, his ways,
his words, about how we handlethis moment and how I handle
this moment is is that I realizethat and I've said this again
and again that I am in Jesus'seyes more than any debt, my
(06:42):
worst day, my worst decision ormy worst deed.
So if I am those things inJesus's eyes, even in my worst,
as I sin, then in Jesus.
Jesus is then therefore the onethat I can trust with my sin
Right, and it's not that I get apass and we can talk about
(07:02):
consequences, if we want to, towrongheaded behavior.
We can talk about that.
But I just want to getestablished that there is
creative possibility with thisword, and what I like about this
word is that it puts me witheverybody.
It condemns this word sin,condemns my superiority
complexes If we are those peoplewho bear those complexes or my
(07:26):
need to be superior or separate.
It condemns that just byholding up the word, because it
says that we all fall short.
Now, that's a party I want togo to, where everybody in the
room knows that they fall short,and this is why I think going
to church is important.
Let me just say that Going tochurch is important because we
are gathered with other peoplewho fall short, and that may be
(07:49):
the best thing that we have tooffer the world.
In the church, which is here,is a space intentionally
constructed for all of us whomiss the mark, so that we can
hear again that Jesus loves andforgives us and that we can give
it another try in the weekahead.
And so I still think that thatis a unique purpose for our
(08:09):
church, and I think people needto go there now, maybe more than
ever, because that I mean,where else do you go that holds
up that banner?
There's nowhere that comes tomind for me where I can go, and
I can acknowledge other places.
I have to go, or we go, chooseto go.
We have to project a manicuredlife.
Melissa (08:51):
Well, okay, so the theme forgiveness is popping up
and bubbling up in me.
Bishop Wright (08:56):
Sure.
Melissa (08:57):
Kind of like what you said.
And yet how can we forgive ifthere's not a bit of an
interrogation aka judgmenttowards oneself and others or
others?
Do you have any thoughts aboutthat, because that's a little
complicated.
Bishop Wright (09:09):
Well, yeah, you're moving forward into
forgiveness, and what I want todo is I want to stop a minute
and center the word sin, becauseI think when we realize who we
are, then we start to realizewhat's the next step in the
sequence of events.
But, yeah, I mean, if I'm asinner and this is why the last
line of this meditation, I think, is important you know, once I
(09:30):
realize what my condition isright, when I realize, you know
that you know I'm a decentperson but I failed to do the
good that I should do or Icontinue to practice the wrong
that I know I should shun, youknow, then I start to understand
that life is more than logicand there's something about this
(09:53):
human condition that poets andauthors and songwriters have
tried to describe for millennia.
And if we have thisthree-letter word, that begins
to help us right, begins to helpus realize who we are.
That's reflection, that's adepth of reflection, and I think
(10:20):
that the best movement intoforgiveness for us is to
actually realize the ways inwhich I've offended God and the
ways in which I have offendedothers, and the ways in which I
have offended my own self, myown dignity, etc.
And so to me.
What I like about the word sinis that this is grown-up stuff.
This is stuff for thinkingpeople, people who are not
(10:40):
afraid of the quiet that canconsider their life, who are not
addicted to innocence.
James Baldwin's famous quote Ifyou're not addicted to always
playing the victim or needing tobe innocent, then you can let
things be as they are and youcan hear the ways in which you
(11:02):
have missed and realize thatthat lays beside all the days
that you didn't miss and that weare actually both right.
Jesus gives us in thiswonderful little story about
heaven rejoicing at sinners, youknow, turning around, making a
U-turn, this notion that this isa cosmic thing and that the way
(11:27):
forward for all of us that endsup being a communal thing for
us is for us to acknowledge thefact that we missed the mark and
then take all of that to aloving God.
Melissa (11:38):
So would you say, levels of sin is irrelevant?
Bishop Wright (11:42):
No, Well, I wouldn't say that it's
irrelevant.
I mean, if that's the kind ofconversation we want to have
about a hierarchy of sin, okay,that's fine, we can do that, and
we spend some time on that inthe church.
We talk about that a little bitin Lent purposes.
(12:09):
I think what I really wantpeople to do this is an
invitation is just to be able tolay claim to all the parts of
your life.
Look the smart people, thetherapists and the psychiatrists
.
They want to talk about, youknow, an integration of all of
our experiences in life.
You know, we don't have to keepthings you know in a
metaphorical sort of lockbox,thrown into the outer darkness
of our psyche.
You know, the good news is isthat, you know, as we give these
(12:33):
things to God, as we reflect onthese things and offer them to
God and view ourselves throughGod's loving eyes, then we can
integrate all of who we havebeen.
Look, the best ambassadors forGod are people who can embrace
all of who they've been, all ofwho they've been, and I think
when we do that, we are wholeW-H-O-L-E, and I think that's
(12:56):
the way towards holiness isrealizing in God's eyes I have
dignity, worth and value andit's not predicated upon me
having a perfect record book.
That's not the way that Godseems to be judging.
God seems to be judging withthe full knowledge that we will
(13:17):
miss.
But the question is now thatyou've missed, what do you want
to do?
Melissa (13:23):
And therein lies the liberation.
Bishop Wright (13:25):
Yes, precisely right.
What I like to to say is youmentioned last week about
freedom.
Well, the real freedom andhealth is acknowledging that we
fall short and accepting thislove, this welcome home love, as
you walk down the new path.
Melissa (13:46):
And we believe we are all sinners.
Bishop Wright (13:48):
We believe we are all sinners and hallelujah, god
loves sinners.
Melissa (13:53):
Indeed.
Thank goodness for that Bishopthank you for such a great
conversation and listeners.
Thank you for listening to ForPeople.
You can follow us on Instagramand Facebook at Bishop Rob
Wright, or by visiting www.
forpeople.
digital.
Please subscribe, leave areview and we'll be back with
you next week.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.