June 6, 2025 • 19 mins
"Diversity belongs to God's imagination." With this bold statement, Bishop Rob Wright cuts through the political noise surrounding conversations about human difference. In this thought-provoking episode, we explore how the ancient biblical story of Pentecost offers a divine endorsement of human diversity that transcends modern political debates.
In this episode, Melissa and Bishop Wright have a conversation about Pentecost centered around Acts 2:1-21 where the Holy Spirit descends on a linguistically and ethnically diverse gathering, creating understanding without erasing distinctiveness. This divine affirmation of difference provides a powerful counterpoint to modern anxieties about diversity. As Bishop Wright observes, "We can't see all of God until we see all of us," reminding listeners that our differences reflect God's creative abundance rather than problems to be solved. Listen in for the full conversation.
Read For Faith, the companion devotional.
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Episode Transcript
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Bishop Wright (00:00):
I know it's become sort of a political
fodder to even use the worddiversity and I'm just not going
to let go of that word toappease some people who want to
make political correctnesssomehow a demigod.
Diversity belongs to God'simagination.
Diversity belongs to God.
God upholds it and I think, aspart of followers of God
(00:22):
incarnate in the form of Jesus,we've got to hold on to it and
point to all of the myriadpositivities.
Melissa (00:40):
Welcome to For People with Bishop Rob Wright.
I'm your host, Melissa Rau, andthis is a conversation inspired
by For Faith, a weekly devotionsent out every Friday.
You can find a link to thisweek's For Faith and a link to
subscribe in the episode'sdescription.
Hey, hey, Bishop.
Bishop Wright (00:56):
Hey, hey.
Melissa (00:57):
So this week's devotion you called diversity, in a nod
to Acts 2, chapters 1 through21,.
You know, basically, when thespirit descends upon the people
and they talk crazy languagesand everybody can understand
what's being said, and youreally highlight the truth that
(01:18):
God is a very appreciative ofthe diversity that God's created
.
Bishop Wright (01:24):
It seems so from the Bible.
Yes, yeah, man.
Melissa (01:27):
So I'm also.
It doesn't all right.
So we call that Pentecost, theday of Pentecost, the church's
birthday, and we're alsocelebrating.
Well, many are celebrating Juneas pride month.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yes.
Melissa (01:42):
So how do you see Pentecost being appropriate for
us to talk about now?
We don't have to.
We could talk about the pridestuff a little bit further down
in our conversation.
Bishop Wright (01:51):
But it all sort of goes together.
I mean, well, first of all,let's say Pentecost is what
we're.
We're on our way to celebratethis Sunday and, and usually we
use the second chapter of Actsand the first 21 verses of the
first chapter, I'm sorry of thesecond chapter, and you know
it's just this amazingpsychedelic, you know vivid, you
(02:13):
know God is doing a new thingwith a sort of an old gathering,
penta 50, right.
So five or 50 days after Easterwe call it the, you know the
church's birthday flamingtongues and and rushing wind
descend on a gathering of very,very, very diverse, ethically
(02:35):
diverse, linguistically diversegathering and and you know it's
the diversity I like to say thatis affirmed, enabled and
commissioned in Pentecost.
So no talk about how it's a badthing, no talk about any of the
ways that we have come to talkabout diversity these days.
(02:57):
I mean, it was an accepted factof the then known world that
lots of people looked lots ofdifferent kinds of ways and that
that was a good thing and that,you know, while there was no
sort of millennia in the worldthat was perfect.
You know, on several scores itwas easier to have these kinds
(03:21):
of gatherings than it seems tobe to have now, anyway.
So God rushes in, as God waspromised.
Jesus promised that when I gothe Spirit will come, and that
the Spirit will enable, willstrengthen, etc.
And so, over this amazing groupof lots of different kinds of
names.
What's always a little bithumorous every year when we get
(03:41):
together in church is peopletrying to read all those
different kinds of names, right,all those wonderful you know,
pointing to all this wonderfulethnic and linguistic diversity.
And then Spirit comes and doesthis amazing thing.
What I always like to point outin this text is that they're
able now to understand eachother.
(04:02):
And, uh, part of theunderstanding is they're all
talking about the wonderfuldeeds of God in their own way,
and and I always, that alwaysholds out my hopes.
I don't believe in a whole lotof Kumbaya, but but I do believe
there are spaces and places andpractices that we can take up.
That might bring us a littlebit closer together If we could
(04:24):
suspend some of the othersilliness, silliness that we
sort of default to when we gettogether.
So they began to talk about thewondrous.
The Spirit enabled them to talkabout the wondrous deeds of God
.
And so, as they do this, andthen, as we read later on, that
it is affirmed, this diversity,this beautiful imagination,
creativity, example ofcreativity of God's imagination,
(04:46):
is affirmed, and then it'senabled, and then it's
commissioned for God's purposesgoing forward.
And so I think that's the bestway to think about who we are
and we being, you know, speakingglobally, is that we are each
individual parts of a marvelouswhole, and we can't see all of
(05:09):
God until we see all of us.
And I know it's become sort ofa political fodder to even use
the word diversity, and I'm justnot going to let go of that
word to appease some people whowant to make political
correctness somehow a demigod.
Diversity belongs to God'simagination, diversity belongs
(05:33):
to God.
God upholds it, and I think, aspart of followers of God
incarnate in the form of Jesus,we've got to hold on to it and
point to all of the myriadpositivities.
And so, yeah, you know.
When I was a little boy I was a.
I was a big nature nerd.
You know National Geographicbefore you know it was a
(05:56):
magazine, before it was a.
You know a documentary seriesor all that.
And then Jacques Cousteau andthe amazing underwater.
You know sea world and all thatyou know sort of nature stuff I
could get my hands on as a kid.
I loved it.
And so look, what would thecoral reefs be without diversity
?
You know, what would theAfrican savannas be without, you
(06:19):
know, biodiversity?
What would the Amazonrainforest be without diversity?
And so, and what would, andwhat would we be without all the
different ways that we aredistinct?
I just think it's wrongheadedto give up the word.
Melissa (06:34):
Yeah, I agree.
It's interesting to me.
Let's consider two differentimages one a soup and the other
the salad.
Soup and salad are different,but it's Well.
We used to call our country themelting pot.
I want to be able to taste theindividual and distinct flavors
of it all.
Bishop Wright (06:55):
It was trying to point to something that we all
didn't come here the same way,but we all came here wanting,
you know, many of the samethings and we even came here
different ways that we don'tneed to go into that.
The difference between you know, sort of 1619, you know, with
the Africans coming as enslavedpeople and later Ellis Island
(07:16):
and so on and so forth.
So we even came here differentways but you know we want the
same thing and that's again thisis what the story conjures up.
People came differently to thisgathering, which was a
longstanding Jewish tradition.
They came differently andsomehow some new unity happened,
by the grace of God, that theywere able to sort of walk out
(07:38):
transformed and changed a bit,with their ethnicity intact.
And, you know, no one had to bediminished who they were, how
they, how they spoke.
No doubt cultural stuff was notdiminished.
As far as we can read the text,they were sent out enhanced
(07:59):
Right by the grace of the Spirit.
Melissa (08:02):
Yeah, so how do we reconcile the word pride?
When I think of the Pentecost,I think of the commissioning and
the very.
I mean it was in your face, youcouldn't ignore it right.
And I'm curious how we mighthave distorted or get lost in
the idea of pride what it is andwhat it isn't.
Bishop Wright (08:25):
We've got a global audience.
So I think what we're talkingabout here in the United States
is that we sort of designateJune as a month.
We call it Pride Month, wherewe celebrate especially our
LGTBQIA folks.
We also celebrate, incidentally, juneteenth, which is a
celebration on the diverse waythat many of us came to the
(08:45):
knowledge that we were now freedunder the law in this country,
even though it took a littlewhile.
So if we're talking about thatpride, I think how I come to it
is it's very much in keepingwith this conversation about
diversity and the celebration ofthat.
So the truth of the matter is isthat human sexuality is in many
ways, a mystery and it's aspectrum and it goes.
(09:09):
You know, that kind ofconversation about it being a
spectrum and an unfolding sortof mystery has been with human
beings since the beginning oftime.
It's now in some places, notevery place, but it's in some
places.
The United States tends to beone in many places where we get
to say that out loud that we arefearfully and wonderfully made,
as the Psalmist says, and thatlooks lots of different ways.
(09:32):
So I celebrate pride and Iaffirm that we need space to
maybe recover the years, decades, that we weren't allowed to say
that we were here and that weare distinct and nevertheless we
are human and deserve respectand justice and dignity.
So that's sort of how I come topride.
(09:52):
It's pretty easy.
Frankly speaking, it's a prettylow bar, which is to create
space for other people who havehad a very difficult journey in
just claiming a space forthemselves.
It's a low bar to just say nowwe're going to create a space
and now you can use your voiceto celebrate who you are, I
think, doing violence to that,as we had, you know, over the
(10:17):
centuries that we've been, youknow, a country really needs to
be reflected on and for us nowto really acknowledge the ways
in which we've missed the markthat all people are created
equally, et cetera, becausethat's not been the legal code
for lots of different categories.
And so now, as part of therecovery of that, yeah, of
course people need space to beable to say here we are, and so
(10:39):
pride is a very easy thing.
I'm glad I'm part of a churchthat can do that.
I think what we've got to becareful in the church is to put
all of our eggs in one basket,so to speak, and here this might
be a little controversial forsome people and, as I think
about the Episcopal Church and,of course, there's lots of
different kinds of folks who arelistening from lots of
different expressions.
(10:59):
What concerns me is that, whileI stand completely with the
members of the LGBTQIA communityand affirm their right to claim
their space and the fact thatthey're made in the image of God
, I do that.
What worries me is that we'vesort of made our understanding
of diversity and thinking ofjustice only on that issue, and
(11:22):
I think that puts us out ofbalance.
I think there are a myriad waysfor us to talk about injustice
in the world.
There are places and spacesthat need to be recovered.
There are groups among us inthe human family that need a
space to talk about historic,economic and legal trauma that's
been done to them simplybecause they're different, and
(11:45):
so what I would say to all of usis is that we need to be proud
of all that we are and all thatwe've been, and to take the
steps that are necessary tobegin to say that out loud and
to reclaim that space.
Sadly, however, it threatenssome people when groups
previously excluded from thefull benefits of being a citizen
(12:08):
in this country.
When those folks start to speakup, it gets really
uncomfortable.
Sadly, the equation in somepeople's minds seems to be if we
give other people space toacknowledge sort of historic
deficits imposed upon them, thensomehow we are less, and that
is really tragic.
(12:28):
That is really tragic and Ithink we have to really think
about that again.
That's small, that's small andwe're, and we're bigger and
we're better than that.
Whether we're talking church, orwhether we're talking, you know
, political, the political world, whether we're talking about,
you know, civil society, we'rejust better than that.
But unfortunately for somepeople, you finding your voice,
(12:51):
claiming your story, et cetera,seems to put some people on the
back foot and they feeldiminished.
And I've and it's difficult forme to find that in Scripture,
it's difficult for me to findthat in Jesus.
The disciples certainly flirtedwith that.
But then Jesus comes along.
He gives this wonderfulcorrection that he's in the
(13:11):
friend-making campaign, he's inthe affirmation campaign, he's
in the wholeness and health andhealing campaign, and there's
enough to go around.
Melissa (13:46):
Enough.
That's totally right.
It's really, to me, it's allabout scarcity, and we've been
built to think that.
I think that we're in azero-sum game of some sort,
which doesn't make sense.
But, bishop, you talked aboutunderstanding, and I think at
Pentecost it wasn't so much thatthe Spirit moved and everybody
heard the same thing and couldunderstand it.
(14:07):
The Spirit made it so that theSpirit even highlighted the
distinctive, diverse nature inwhich people could experience it
, and so I don't know what thatmeans for how we might behave
and honor the diversity in realtime, just because of how spirit
worked.
(14:27):
I don't know.
Do you have any ideas orthoughts about?
Bishop Wright (14:29):
that, yeah, I mean, let's just stay with the
Bible.
I mean, you know, opinion isnot required, right, let's stay
with the scripture.
It said that the spirit gavethem ability, right?
So there's something aboutbeing in step with God, or being
the recipient of grace, thatadds square footage to you, to
(14:51):
your heart, right To your mouth,to your mind, to your
imagination.
The spirit gives ability.
And so they were given ability,not only linguistic ability and
listening ability, because it'salso that's a big piece in this
story too that listeningincreased right, listening
deepened, listening broadenedright.
They were able to hear from oneanother, and, god knows, we
(15:13):
could talk an hour about howsort of reactivity is not the
same thing as a response.
Reactivity has to do with justwaiting for your turn to talk or
just scoring your own points,et cetera, whereas response has
to do with me listening to youand maybe saying to you you know
, melissa, you've said a lot tome today.
(15:35):
Let me get back to you.
I need to sit down.
So that's an ability.
We call that maturity, right,we call that you know.
Differentiation, you know.
We call that you know sort ofwhat I would call is managing
self.
So, so all of this, I think is,and I've been talking about
spiritual maturity since, youknow, jesus was a little boy.
(15:55):
I like to say so, but spiritualmaturity is part of it.
So they're given ability and Ithink we could use a dose of
that ability nowadays.
And you're quite right, I think, what undercuts this is, you
know, the constant, you knowdiet of fear that we're
ingesting, right so?
So neighborliness is notsomething to grow and be all
(16:18):
about.
You know it's, it's cut by fear.
And you know all the scarcity,all of this, all that, the other
parties coming for you.
You know, I mean, the list islong.
And so you know we may need toadopt some new habits, we may
need to find, you know, thespigots of fear in our lives and
(16:41):
turn them off.
Melissa (16:42):
Because the spirit didn't discriminate.
Bishop Wright (16:46):
Exactly right, exactly right.
So now, I mean that by no meansmeans in antiquity, that there
weren't lots of problems withfolks, but what we're using is
this 21 verses from the secondchapter of Acts to reimagine
ways that we could be together.
And so, if people are lookingfor, you know, socioeconomic
(17:08):
solutions for the globe, I don'thave them.
I wish I did, but I know, Iknow this that if we begin to
try to apply some of theselessons and welcome the Spirit
into our own personal lives,it's amazing how that can
actually work at home with thepeople we love but struggle to
(17:30):
love, et cetera.
And is it messy?
And is it slow?
Hell yeah, because the truth ofthe matter is is that we've got
to do some dying to ourselves.
Look, this assembly was neverthe same after this event, right
, because you know, once youknow the genie's out of the
bottle, right, it's hard to goback and be small like that
again, right?
(17:52):
And so that event has changed.
And then the people are changed.
You can't unremember the factthat you came there so radically
different and then somehow youhad this new cord of unity.
People didn't forget that, andI just imagine people you know
were saying this to people thatthey loved and knew for the rest
(18:14):
of their lives, and so onecan't even account for the fact
how this inspired some people tobegin to talk about God, to
begin to find common ground,maybe to begin to bury historic
grudges.
This thing about God is God isalways calling us to grow up,
and then, when we sort of seeourselves in God's eyes without
(18:36):
shame, we really realize we'vegot to grow up.
And then, you know, when wesort of see ourselves in God's
eyes without shame, we reallyrealize we've got to grow up.
We're made for so much more.
We're made to be bigger,broader, deeper, more joyful,
and it's our ability to sort ofhold on to the things, obstacles
that make us small, that justmust frustrate.
You know, the hell out of Godwhere God is just inviting, but
(18:59):
you know God's always patientbut inviting us beyond that, but
the work is ours, and so, again, we continue to offer people
these stories as just smalldistillations and, you know, a
little bit of nitroglycerinmaybe to blow open.
You know some of these thingsthat need to be blown open in
our lives.
Melissa (19:19):
Well, bishop, happy pride, happy Pentecost and
listeners.
Thank you for listening to ForPeople.
You can follow us on Instagramand Facebook at Bishop Rob
Wrights, or by visiting www.
forpeople.
digital.
Please subscribe, leave areview and we'll be back with
you next week.
I know it's become sort of a political
fodder to even use the worddiversity and I'm just not going
to let go of that word toappease some people who want to
make political correctnesssomehow a demigod.
Diversity belongs to God'simagination.
Diversity belongs to God.
God upholds it and I think, aspart of followers of God
(00:22):
incarnate in the form of Jesus,we've got to hold on to it and
point to all of the myriadpositivities.
Melissa (00:40):
Welcome to For People with Bishop Rob Wright.
I'm your host, Melissa Rau, andthis is a conversation inspired
by For Faith, a weekly devotionsent out every Friday.
You can find a link to thisweek's For Faith and a link to
subscribe in the episode'sdescription.
Hey, hey, Bishop.
Bishop Wright (00:56):
Hey, hey.
Melissa (00:57):
So this week's devotion you called diversity, in a nod
to Acts 2, chapters 1 through21,.
You know, basically, when thespirit descends upon the people
and they talk crazy languagesand everybody can understand
what's being said, and youreally highlight the truth that
(01:18):
God is a very appreciative ofthe diversity that God's created
.
Bishop Wright (01:24):
It seems so from the Bible.
Yes, yeah, man.
Melissa (01:27):
So I'm also.
It doesn't all right.
So we call that Pentecost, theday of Pentecost, the church's
birthday, and we're alsocelebrating.
Well, many are celebrating Juneas pride month.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yes.
Melissa (01:42):
So how do you see Pentecost being appropriate for
us to talk about now?
We don't have to.
We could talk about the pridestuff a little bit further down
in our conversation.
Bishop Wright (01:51):
But it all sort of goes together.
I mean, well, first of all,let's say Pentecost is what
we're.
We're on our way to celebratethis Sunday and, and usually we
use the second chapter of Actsand the first 21 verses of the
first chapter, I'm sorry of thesecond chapter, and you know
it's just this amazingpsychedelic, you know vivid, you
(02:13):
know God is doing a new thingwith a sort of an old gathering,
penta 50, right.
So five or 50 days after Easterwe call it the, you know the
church's birthday flamingtongues and and rushing wind
descend on a gathering of very,very, very diverse, ethically
(02:35):
diverse, linguistically diversegathering and and you know it's
the diversity I like to say thatis affirmed, enabled and
commissioned in Pentecost.
So no talk about how it's a badthing, no talk about any of the
ways that we have come to talkabout diversity these days.
(02:57):
I mean, it was an accepted factof the then known world that
lots of people looked lots ofdifferent kinds of ways and that
that was a good thing and that,you know, while there was no
sort of millennia in the worldthat was perfect.
You know, on several scores itwas easier to have these kinds
(03:21):
of gatherings than it seems tobe to have now, anyway.
So God rushes in, as God waspromised.
Jesus promised that when I gothe Spirit will come, and that
the Spirit will enable, willstrengthen, etc.
And so, over this amazing groupof lots of different kinds of
names.
What's always a little bithumorous every year when we get
(03:41):
together in church is peopletrying to read all those
different kinds of names, right,all those wonderful you know,
pointing to all this wonderfulethnic and linguistic diversity.
And then Spirit comes and doesthis amazing thing.
What I always like to point outin this text is that they're
able now to understand eachother.
(04:02):
And, uh, part of theunderstanding is they're all
talking about the wonderfuldeeds of God in their own way,
and and I always, that alwaysholds out my hopes.
I don't believe in a whole lotof Kumbaya, but but I do believe
there are spaces and places andpractices that we can take up.
That might bring us a littlebit closer together If we could
(04:24):
suspend some of the othersilliness, silliness that we
sort of default to when we gettogether.
So they began to talk about thewondrous.
The Spirit enabled them to talkabout the wondrous deeds of God
.
And so, as they do this, andthen, as we read later on, that
it is affirmed, this diversity,this beautiful imagination,
creativity, example ofcreativity of God's imagination,
(04:46):
is affirmed, and then it'senabled, and then it's
commissioned for God's purposesgoing forward.
And so I think that's the bestway to think about who we are
and we being, you know, speakingglobally, is that we are each
individual parts of a marvelouswhole, and we can't see all of
(05:09):
God until we see all of us.
And I know it's become sort ofa political fodder to even use
the word diversity, and I'm justnot going to let go of that
word to appease some people whowant to make political
correctness somehow a demigod.
Diversity belongs to God'simagination, diversity belongs
(05:33):
to God.
God upholds it, and I think, aspart of followers of God
incarnate in the form of Jesus,we've got to hold on to it and
point to all of the myriadpositivities.
And so, yeah, you know.
When I was a little boy I was a.
I was a big nature nerd.
You know National Geographicbefore you know it was a
(05:56):
magazine, before it was a.
You know a documentary seriesor all that.
And then Jacques Cousteau andthe amazing underwater.
You know sea world and all thatyou know sort of nature stuff I
could get my hands on as a kid.
I loved it.
And so look, what would thecoral reefs be without diversity
?
You know, what would theAfrican savannas be without, you
(06:19):
know, biodiversity?
What would the Amazonrainforest be without diversity?
And so, and what would, andwhat would we be without all the
different ways that we aredistinct?
I just think it's wrongheadedto give up the word.
Melissa (06:34):
Yeah, I agree.
It's interesting to me.
Let's consider two differentimages one a soup and the other
the salad.
Soup and salad are different,but it's Well.
We used to call our country themelting pot.
I want to be able to taste theindividual and distinct flavors
of it all.
Bishop Wright (06:55):
It was trying to point to something that we all
didn't come here the same way,but we all came here wanting,
you know, many of the samethings and we even came here
different ways that we don'tneed to go into that.
The difference between you know, sort of 1619, you know, with
the Africans coming as enslavedpeople and later Ellis Island
(07:16):
and so on and so forth.
So we even came here differentways but you know we want the
same thing and that's again thisis what the story conjures up.
People came differently to thisgathering, which was a
longstanding Jewish tradition.
They came differently andsomehow some new unity happened,
by the grace of God, that theywere able to sort of walk out
(07:38):
transformed and changed a bit,with their ethnicity intact.
And, you know, no one had to bediminished who they were, how
they, how they spoke.
No doubt cultural stuff was notdiminished.
As far as we can read the text,they were sent out enhanced
(07:59):
Right by the grace of the Spirit.
Melissa (08:02):
Yeah, so how do we reconcile the word pride?
When I think of the Pentecost,I think of the commissioning and
the very.
I mean it was in your face, youcouldn't ignore it right.
And I'm curious how we mighthave distorted or get lost in
the idea of pride what it is andwhat it isn't.
Bishop Wright (08:25):
We've got a global audience.
So I think what we're talkingabout here in the United States
is that we sort of designateJune as a month.
We call it Pride Month, wherewe celebrate especially our
LGTBQIA folks.
We also celebrate, incidentally, juneteenth, which is a
celebration on the diverse waythat many of us came to the
(08:45):
knowledge that we were now freedunder the law in this country,
even though it took a littlewhile.
So if we're talking about thatpride, I think how I come to it
is it's very much in keepingwith this conversation about
diversity and the celebration ofthat.
So the truth of the matter is isthat human sexuality is in many
ways, a mystery and it's aspectrum and it goes.
(09:09):
You know, that kind ofconversation about it being a
spectrum and an unfolding sortof mystery has been with human
beings since the beginning oftime.
It's now in some places, notevery place, but it's in some
places.
The United States tends to beone in many places where we get
to say that out loud that we arefearfully and wonderfully made,
as the Psalmist says, and thatlooks lots of different ways.
(09:32):
So I celebrate pride and Iaffirm that we need space to
maybe recover the years, decades, that we weren't allowed to say
that we were here and that weare distinct and nevertheless we
are human and deserve respectand justice and dignity.
So that's sort of how I come topride.
(09:52):
It's pretty easy.
Frankly speaking, it's a prettylow bar, which is to create
space for other people who havehad a very difficult journey in
just claiming a space forthemselves.
It's a low bar to just say nowwe're going to create a space
and now you can use your voiceto celebrate who you are, I
think, doing violence to that,as we had, you know, over the
(10:17):
centuries that we've been, youknow, a country really needs to
be reflected on and for us nowto really acknowledge the ways
in which we've missed the markthat all people are created
equally, et cetera, becausethat's not been the legal code
for lots of different categories.
And so now, as part of therecovery of that, yeah, of
course people need space to beable to say here we are, and so
(10:39):
pride is a very easy thing.
I'm glad I'm part of a churchthat can do that.
I think what we've got to becareful in the church is to put
all of our eggs in one basket,so to speak, and here this might
be a little controversial forsome people and, as I think
about the Episcopal Church and,of course, there's lots of
different kinds of folks who arelistening from lots of
different expressions.
(10:59):
What concerns me is that, whileI stand completely with the
members of the LGBTQIA communityand affirm their right to claim
their space and the fact thatthey're made in the image of God
, I do that.
What worries me is that we'vesort of made our understanding
of diversity and thinking ofjustice only on that issue, and
(11:22):
I think that puts us out ofbalance.
I think there are a myriad waysfor us to talk about injustice
in the world.
There are places and spacesthat need to be recovered.
There are groups among us inthe human family that need a
space to talk about historic,economic and legal trauma that's
been done to them simplybecause they're different, and
(11:45):
so what I would say to all of usis is that we need to be proud
of all that we are and all thatwe've been, and to take the
steps that are necessary tobegin to say that out loud and
to reclaim that space.
Sadly, however, it threatenssome people when groups
previously excluded from thefull benefits of being a citizen
(12:08):
in this country.
When those folks start to speakup, it gets really
uncomfortable.
Sadly, the equation in somepeople's minds seems to be if we
give other people space toacknowledge sort of historic
deficits imposed upon them, thensomehow we are less, and that
is really tragic.
(12:28):
That is really tragic and Ithink we have to really think
about that again.
That's small, that's small andwe're, and we're bigger and
we're better than that.
Whether we're talking church, orwhether we're talking, you know
, political, the political world, whether we're talking about,
you know, civil society, we'rejust better than that.
But unfortunately for somepeople, you finding your voice,
(12:51):
claiming your story, et cetera,seems to put some people on the
back foot and they feeldiminished.
And I've and it's difficult forme to find that in Scripture,
it's difficult for me to findthat in Jesus.
The disciples certainly flirtedwith that.
But then Jesus comes along.
He gives this wonderfulcorrection that he's in the
(13:11):
friend-making campaign, he's inthe affirmation campaign, he's
in the wholeness and health andhealing campaign, and there's
enough to go around.
Melissa (13:46):
Enough.
That's totally right.
It's really, to me, it's allabout scarcity, and we've been
built to think that.
I think that we're in azero-sum game of some sort,
which doesn't make sense.
But, bishop, you talked aboutunderstanding, and I think at
Pentecost it wasn't so much thatthe Spirit moved and everybody
heard the same thing and couldunderstand it.
(14:07):
The Spirit made it so that theSpirit even highlighted the
distinctive, diverse nature inwhich people could experience it
, and so I don't know what thatmeans for how we might behave
and honor the diversity in realtime, just because of how spirit
worked.
(14:27):
I don't know.
Do you have any ideas orthoughts about?
Bishop Wright (14:29):
that, yeah, I mean, let's just stay with the
Bible.
I mean, you know, opinion isnot required, right, let's stay
with the scripture.
It said that the spirit gavethem ability, right?
So there's something aboutbeing in step with God, or being
the recipient of grace, thatadds square footage to you, to
(14:51):
your heart, right To your mouth,to your mind, to your
imagination.
The spirit gives ability.
And so they were given ability,not only linguistic ability and
listening ability, because it'salso that's a big piece in this
story too that listeningincreased right, listening
deepened, listening broadenedright.
They were able to hear from oneanother, and, god knows, we
(15:13):
could talk an hour about howsort of reactivity is not the
same thing as a response.
Reactivity has to do with justwaiting for your turn to talk or
just scoring your own points,et cetera, whereas response has
to do with me listening to youand maybe saying to you you know
, melissa, you've said a lot tome today.
(15:35):
Let me get back to you.
I need to sit down.
So that's an ability.
We call that maturity, right,we call that you know.
Differentiation, you know.
We call that you know sort ofwhat I would call is managing
self.
So, so all of this, I think is,and I've been talking about
spiritual maturity since, youknow, jesus was a little boy.
(15:55):
I like to say so, but spiritualmaturity is part of it.
So they're given ability and Ithink we could use a dose of
that ability nowadays.
And you're quite right, I think, what undercuts this is, you
know, the constant, you knowdiet of fear that we're
ingesting, right so?
So neighborliness is notsomething to grow and be all
(16:18):
about.
You know it's, it's cut by fear.
And you know all the scarcity,all of this, all that, the other
parties coming for you.
You know, I mean, the list islong.
And so you know we may need toadopt some new habits, we may
need to find, you know, thespigots of fear in our lives and
(16:41):
turn them off.
Melissa (16:42):
Because the spirit didn't discriminate.
Bishop Wright (16:46):
Exactly right, exactly right.
So now, I mean that by no meansmeans in antiquity, that there
weren't lots of problems withfolks, but what we're using is
this 21 verses from the secondchapter of Acts to reimagine
ways that we could be together.
And so, if people are lookingfor, you know, socioeconomic
(17:08):
solutions for the globe, I don'thave them.
I wish I did, but I know, Iknow this that if we begin to
try to apply some of theselessons and welcome the Spirit
into our own personal lives,it's amazing how that can
actually work at home with thepeople we love but struggle to
(17:30):
love, et cetera.
And is it messy?
And is it slow?
Hell yeah, because the truth ofthe matter is is that we've got
to do some dying to ourselves.
Look, this assembly was neverthe same after this event, right
, because you know, once youknow the genie's out of the
bottle, right, it's hard to goback and be small like that
again, right?
(17:52):
And so that event has changed.
And then the people are changed.
You can't unremember the factthat you came there so radically
different and then somehow youhad this new cord of unity.
People didn't forget that, andI just imagine people you know
were saying this to people thatthey loved and knew for the rest
(18:14):
of their lives, and so onecan't even account for the fact
how this inspired some people tobegin to talk about God, to
begin to find common ground,maybe to begin to bury historic
grudges.
This thing about God is God isalways calling us to grow up,
and then, when we sort of seeourselves in God's eyes without
(18:36):
shame, we really realize we'vegot to grow up.
And then, you know, when wesort of see ourselves in God's
eyes without shame, we reallyrealize we've got to grow up.
We're made for so much more.
We're made to be bigger,broader, deeper, more joyful,
and it's our ability to sort ofhold on to the things, obstacles
that make us small, that justmust frustrate.
You know, the hell out of Godwhere God is just inviting, but
(18:59):
you know God's always patientbut inviting us beyond that, but
the work is ours, and so, again, we continue to offer people
these stories as just smalldistillations and, you know, a
little bit of nitroglycerinmaybe to blow open.
You know some of these thingsthat need to be blown open in
our lives.
Melissa (19:19):
Well, bishop, happy pride, happy Pentecost and
listeners.
Thank you for listening to ForPeople.
You can follow us on Instagramand Facebook at Bishop Rob
Wrights, or by visiting www.
forpeople.
digital.
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