April 4, 2025 • 18 mins
Loss hits hardest when we love deeply. How do we face it without denial or paralysis? In John 12, at a dinner for Jesus after Lazarus' resurrection, his friends respond to impending loss differently—Lazarus with nostalgia, Martha with busyness, and Judas with business. But Mary offers a different way: acknowledging a loss that draws her closer to Jesus.
In this episode, Melissa and Bishop Wright have a conversation about loss. They use the dinner party to unpack how people respond to loss. Bishop Wright reminds us that Jesus is equipped to guide us through loss because he understands betrayal, rejecting, and unjust suffering. Jesus' loss offers wisdom for navigating not just death, but all forms of loss—including the losses that accompany change. Listen in for the full conversation.
This episode is based on part 5 of Bishop Wright's 5-part Lenten series "Growing Up in Christ!". Learn more about this year's series, watch the weekly videos, and download the reflection guides here.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bishop Wright (00:00):
We don't have a Jesus who never went through
anything.
You know.
This Jesus understands betrayal.
This Jesus understands how hegoes to his tradition, and even
his tradition can't receive him.
This Jesus understands howdoing good has gotten him in a
lot of trouble and even, in fact, doing good has gotten him
lynched.
So this Jesus is someone thatwe can sort of get beside and he
(00:22):
can help us to deal with allthe things that we're gonna deal
with in life, and so, lossbeing one of them, death being
one of them, this is Four People, with Bishop Rob Wright.
Melissa (00:40):
Welcome to For People.
With Bishop Rob Wright, I'mMelissa Rau and over the course
of this Lenten season, Bishopand I have been having
conversations based on GrowingUp in Christ, a Lenten
curriculum and video seriesproduced by the Episcopal
Diocese of Atlanta.
You can access the videos andaccompanying material at
wwwepiscopalatlanta.
org.
(01:02):
These resources are perfect foryour individual Lenten devotion
or small group study.
Bishop, you rounded us out withthis fifth week.
You call loss based uponLazarus's death among other
losses that Jesus followers willundoubtedly experience, because
(01:24):
life happens to life Right.
What would you have to sayoverall about what was impacting
you?
Why did you choose this themeas a means to growing up in
Christ?
Bishop Wright (01:37):
Well, you know, we've been talking about for
this whole season of Lent whatit means to grow up in Christ,
what it means to become a moremature Christian.
Right, that's what we've beentrying to talk about and I've
tried to figure out, you know,based on our Bible lessons for
this season, a couple ofindicators of Christian maturity
(01:57):
, and one is loss.
How do we handle loss?
And I talk about, in themeditation, ways that we avoid
the reality of loss, and so allthat's in the meditation.
But you know, how we deal withloss is that we acknowledge it,
right, we love, and thereforeloss hits us hard, and so we
(02:21):
don't have to deny loving or theloss that we endure and have to
suffer through.
We can name it and we have afriend in Jesus to help us to
process it.
Nor do we have to say that, uh,you know, life with Christ
means we're just going to suckit up and uh and not acknowledge
, you know, the legitimatefeelings of grief, uh, and loss
(02:43):
that we actually feel.
So I'm trying to thread aneedle here, and this whole
story about the death andresurrection of Lazarus and this
dinner party that happens afterhe's resurrected gives us a
great opportunity to talk aboutit.
Melissa (03:00):
Yeah, you know, I really love your reflection
guide, especially this week.
It's simple and it's succinctand direct.
I appreciate that you highlightthe fact that every single
person in this story deals withthe loss of Lazarus differently.
Bishop Wright (03:23):
Yeah, and we all do, right, I mean that's why the
story is so powerful.
You know, scripture gives usnot only an insight into sort of
our ancient tradition, but wefind ourselves in scripture
nowadays, right, and so you knowall of the characters in the
story.
They all handle imminent lossin their own way.
Lazarus with nostalgia and wedo that.
(03:46):
Judas with business, right, hewants to focus on just the
dollars and cents of things.
And Martha with busyness.
Sometimes we believe we canjust stay busy, we can outrun.
You know the feelings.
But Mary in this story notJesus's mother, but Mary, you
know, she acknowledged and facedthat.
(04:07):
You know the coming loss and itliterally brought her closer to
Jesus, right, and I thinkthat's an invitation for us to
think about the way in which wehandle death.
You know I've been an ordainedperson, you know, in ministry a
long time and I see us reallystruggle with all of these sorts
of things.
I was a school chaplain wayback at the beginning of my
(04:29):
ministry and I watched parentswho loved their children really
struggle to talk about grandmaand grandpa's sickness and death
and I saw kids be reallybewildered by the way that their
parents sort of handled it ordidn't handle it at all.
And so I think this is reallyimportant, this whole notion of
(04:54):
loss, and to talk about it andto process it using the very
best of our Christian tradition.
Melissa (05:01):
Yeah, well, you also dropped the C word, the dreaded
C word.
Okay, change.
Yeah, well, you also droppedthe C word.
You know, the dreaded C word.
Bishop Wright (05:05):
Okay.
Melissa (05:06):
Change.
You said we say we don't wantchange.
But it's not change.
We fear it's the loss thatchange represents.
Bishop Wright (05:13):
That's right, that's right.
Melissa (05:15):
Yeah, tell us more about that.
Bishop Wright (05:16):
Well, yeah, we talk about change all the time,
and change, of course, is hard.
But what we?
If we go a little deeper inthis idea of change?
What we're really talking aboutis we don't want to lose the
ways that have been familiar forus.
We don't want to lose somethingthat we have to give up to
embrace the change.
We sort of blunt it, we rejectit or we try to say to each
(05:39):
other well, we're looking for awin-win.
Well, the truth of the matter isthat in many situations, there
is no win-win.
In many situations, everybodyhas to give up a little
something, everybody has to losea little something in service
to a new reality, a new wayforward.
And so I just find that it'smuch more helpful and, I think,
healthy to talk about how weprocess loss.
(06:01):
I mean, I think it's a bridgethat we all have to cross in
life, whether we're talkingabout jobs or families or
relationships or just ourfamiliar.
I think that's what's happeningin our nation to a degree for
some people, that we're losingthings that have been familiar
to us.
And I see that, you know, we'retrying to sort of hold on to
(06:25):
things you know, sort of withour, you know, white till our
knuckles turn white.
And I think part of what we'redealing with, you know, whether
we're talking about smallsystems, or even national
systems, or even internationalsystems is a refusal to to
embrace the loss that comesalong with life.
Melissa (06:44):
Yeah, you know this is really compelling because my
parish is doing a Lenten studyas well and our theme for the
last week was forgiveness.
Go figure, yeah, and you knowit's really interesting.
Someone in my small groupmentioned that when someone is
say, sinned against, if you will, or they feel harmed or wounded
(07:05):
, traumatized, whatever, thatthey often grieve a sense of
identity and I thought that wasreally compelling.
And so when we lose things,when we're harmed, or things
change for any reason or another, it's kind of a stripping away
and that our identity and theway we relate to ourselves and
(07:27):
to others is thereby changed.
Bishop Wright (07:30):
Absolutely.
And so you know, the case I'mtrying to make is just that
growing up in Christ, that is,using all the tools of our faith
to deal with real life, isreally the preferred way, right?
Because, look, loss and griefare a part of real life and
Jesus is standing there in themiddle of real life to say I'm
(07:51):
with you.
And if we aren't engaged inreal life, then we're engaged in
some sort of fantasy.
And the thing about Jesus isJesus does his best work when we
want to engage in real life.
I think this is why this wholenotion of Good Friday and the
silence of Saturday and then theAlleluia of Sunday is an
(08:13):
important way to think aboutlife.
You know that the loss getsprocessed, that God can hold it
all and that we can give it toGod and that we can use God's
way that we find in scriptureand in our traditions.
We can use those ways, thosecompetencies, to make our way.
Look, we don't want to bluntlife, we don't want to outrun
(08:35):
life, we don't want to fend offreality.
We want to go through it, andthat's the invitation, and
that's why it's hard and that'swhy people don't want to do it,
because there's a going through.
There is a stripping away thatcomes with life, and the good
news, you know, in our tradition, is, is that Jesus says I can
use all of that, follow methrough it.
(08:55):
And what I like about Jesus whyJesus is persuasive as far as
I'm concerned is that, you know,we don't have a Jesus who never
went through anything.
You know, this Jesusunderstands betrayal.
This Jesus understands how hegoes to his tradition and even
his tradition can't receive him.
This Jesus understands howdoing good has gotten him in a
(09:15):
lot of trouble and even, in fact, doing good has gotten him
lynched right.
So this Jesus is someone thatwe can sort of get beside and he
can help us to deal with allthe things that we're going to
deal with in life, and so lossbeing one of them, death being
one of them, feeling forsakenbeing one of those, you know.
(09:36):
And so, again, this is aninvitation for us to not to sort
of try to outrun loss, not tobuild a wall around our lives,
not to use indifference as acoping strategy, but to use sort
of Jesus's strategy and ourrelationship to him as a way to
move through the loss we lose.
(09:56):
I mean, you know, in loss wefeel lost because we love right
and we feel lost because we'rehuman beings.
And we feel lost because, youknow, the familiar has been the
familiar and has been a supportto us.
And now those supports, theychange as we get older.
(10:18):
You know, I was young andathletic at one point in my life
.
Now, not so much right, thingschange and we can stay trapped
in sort of nostalgia or we candecide to move forward, you know
, in life, understanding that Iam all of those things you know,
the things that I waspreviously and now I am these
new things, and that causes meto amend my life and define
(10:39):
different strengths anddifferent parts of life, all of
which are part of this wonderfulplan that we call life.
Melissa (11:10):
And so, bishop, I'm looking at the big, bold words
growing up in Christ, and okay.
So the juxtaposition of that isbeing immature, right, and I
can't help but lament or worryor wonder about people who often
get stuck in their grief cyclesand will often fall into the
(11:34):
trap of blaming God for the lossthat they've experienced in
life.
Bishop Wright (11:42):
Yeah, I mean, this is really difficult, right,
because you know this is sodisorienting for people.
So, if God is good, you know,goes the question why did God
give someone I love cancer?
Or you know, why was someonesuddenly taken away in a
catastrophic accident, etc.
And then there is a legitimateI would say a legitimate anger
(12:03):
at God.
And you know, what I say tothose folks is is that, you know
, some people just need thepermission, need to hear that
it's okay to be angry for aseason, it's okay to rage, it's
okay to say all those things,it's okay to ask those questions
.
And we can say that because wehave read our Bible and we know
that the Psalms, those 150wonderful, emotionally
(12:27):
vulnerable Psalms, we can locateourselves, no matter what
season we're in, in those psalms.
There are psalms where peoplewonder out loud you know, god,
where were you?
Even this dinner party withMary and Martha and Lazarus, not
, you know, not long before thisdinner party, in Scripture,
mary and Martha are upset withJesus because they say to Jesus
(12:50):
if you would have been here, man, you know, my brother would not
have died, right.
And so, you know, even in thisdinner party, there's an
evolution.
So I think we have to startwith how we honestly feel and
then I think you know we have tonot tend to these kinds of
feelings all by ourselves.
You know, a good therapist, agood you, a good pastoral
(13:12):
counselor, a good spiritualdirector can help us come to
grips with how we feel about allthese things and then direct us
deeper and into a conversationwith God.
But a lot of times we're angrywith God because we have these
sort of with God, because wehave these sort of panacea ideas
(13:36):
about who God actually is, andwe say that God is some sort of,
or we've been taught that Godis somehow some sort of Superman
or super being who's sort ofstanding atop all the high
skyscrapers waiting to dive downand rescue us from every little
bit of peril.
Well, that's just not therelationship that we have with
God.
That's not who God is.
People love God and they stillwill die.
(13:57):
Some people love God and stillwill become sick.
You know, going to church doesnot guarantee us, you know, a
clean report from the doctor.
That's simply not how thisworks.
We have a God who wants to gothrough things with us and so
you know, we die because we'rehuman.
We get diseases because we'rehuman.
(14:17):
We get sick because we're human.
Catastrophe befalls us becausewe're human and Jesus tends to
all this in Scripture and allthese kind of questions are all
in Scripture.
So I think what it's very humanand very legitimate to wonder,
to rage, to be upset and, at thesame time, what we don't want
to do is be stuck.
(14:38):
We don't want to prolong that.
We don't want our evolution,our relationship with God, our
relationship with ourselves andperhaps even loved ones to stall
.
And that's one of the reasonswhy we did the series was just
to hopefully unstuck some of us.
And that's one of the reasonswhy we did the series was just
to hopefully unstuck some of us,because it's really easy to get
stuck there and it's reallyeasy to just sort of check out.
You know my own mother.
(14:59):
When I was a, when I was a child, my father died and left her
with two children and ratherthan leaning into her church
community, she leaned out andthank God for the young people
in the neighborhood when she wasnot able to take us to church
because of her own crisisemotional and financial and
(15:22):
otherwise other people took usto church and my sister and I
would tell you now, after manyyears, we're so grateful to have
been invited forward intorelationship with other people
and into relationship with thechurch and with God because of
other people.
So maybe there's an invitationfor some of us If we know
(15:43):
someone who is stuck, we getalongside them and, with good
love and good care, we offerthem sort of an invitation to
join us moving forward.
Thank God that happened to meand I hope that I'm doing some
of that with this series, but itis very hard and very
bewildering for a lot of people.
But I think that what we wantto do, and at least what
(16:07):
scripture says, is that we wantto move towards maturity, and
maturity always wants us toengage and never to withdraw.
I think that's what I want tosay.
Melissa (16:15):
Well, I would say gosh Seneca said it before, semisonic
sang it Every new beginningcomes from some other
beginning's end, and Isaiah saysthat God is doing a new thing.
So on the other side of lossthere are new beginnings.
Bishop Wright (16:32):
Yeah, well, here's the hopeful part, and
maybe we can end with this.
The hopeful part is is there'sno loss that we can endure, that
we can't bring to God, andthere's no loss that we can
suffer that, in a relationshipwith God, we can't process Right
, that in a relationship withGod, we can't process right, and
(16:54):
there's no loss that we canendure that God can't find a way
to plant, you know, the nextseason's flowers, and I think
that's the invitation.
So to know that God can makesomething out of what feels like
a dark dead end, is the goodnews of Jesus Christ.
That is the resurrection.
(17:14):
That it looked like Good Friday, it looked like it was over, it
looked like loss was going toget the last word and after a
season and with God'sintervention, new life sprung
forward.
And so that's the invitationfor all of us, and I know that
takes faith, and sometimes we'regoing to have to lend our faith
(17:35):
to others who can't have faithin the midst of their loss.
Melissa (17:40):
Indeed Bishop.
Thank you so much and thank you, listeners, for listening to
For People.
You can follow us on Instagramand Facebook at Bishop Rob
Wright, or by visiting www.
forpeople.
digital.
Please subscribe, leave areview and we'll be back with
you next week.
We don't have a Jesus who never went through
anything.
You know.
This Jesus understands betrayal.
This Jesus understands how hegoes to his tradition, and even
his tradition can't receive him.
This Jesus understands howdoing good has gotten him in a
lot of trouble and even, in fact, doing good has gotten him
lynched.
So this Jesus is someone thatwe can sort of get beside and he
(00:22):
can help us to deal with allthe things that we're gonna deal
with in life, and so, lossbeing one of them, death being
one of them, this is Four People, with Bishop Rob Wright.
Melissa (00:40):
Welcome to For People.
With Bishop Rob Wright, I'mMelissa Rau and over the course
of this Lenten season, Bishopand I have been having
conversations based on GrowingUp in Christ, a Lenten
curriculum and video seriesproduced by the Episcopal
Diocese of Atlanta.
You can access the videos andaccompanying material at
wwwepiscopalatlanta.
org.
(01:02):
These resources are perfect foryour individual Lenten devotion
or small group study.
Bishop, you rounded us out withthis fifth week.
You call loss based uponLazarus's death among other
losses that Jesus followers willundoubtedly experience, because
(01:24):
life happens to life Right.
What would you have to sayoverall about what was impacting
you?
Why did you choose this themeas a means to growing up in
Christ?
Bishop Wright (01:37):
Well, you know, we've been talking about for
this whole season of Lent whatit means to grow up in Christ,
what it means to become a moremature Christian.
Right, that's what we've beentrying to talk about and I've
tried to figure out, you know,based on our Bible lessons for
this season, a couple ofindicators of Christian maturity
(01:57):
, and one is loss.
How do we handle loss?
And I talk about, in themeditation, ways that we avoid
the reality of loss, and so allthat's in the meditation.
But you know, how we deal withloss is that we acknowledge it,
right, we love, and thereforeloss hits us hard, and so we
(02:21):
don't have to deny loving or theloss that we endure and have to
suffer through.
We can name it and we have afriend in Jesus to help us to
process it.
Nor do we have to say that, uh,you know, life with Christ
means we're just going to suckit up and uh and not acknowledge
, you know, the legitimatefeelings of grief, uh, and loss
(02:43):
that we actually feel.
So I'm trying to thread aneedle here, and this whole
story about the death andresurrection of Lazarus and this
dinner party that happens afterhe's resurrected gives us a
great opportunity to talk aboutit.
Melissa (03:00):
Yeah, you know, I really love your reflection
guide, especially this week.
It's simple and it's succinctand direct.
I appreciate that you highlightthe fact that every single
person in this story deals withthe loss of Lazarus differently.
Bishop Wright (03:23):
Yeah, and we all do, right, I mean that's why the
story is so powerful.
You know, scripture gives usnot only an insight into sort of
our ancient tradition, but wefind ourselves in scripture
nowadays, right, and so you knowall of the characters in the
story.
They all handle imminent lossin their own way.
Lazarus with nostalgia and wedo that.
(03:46):
Judas with business, right, hewants to focus on just the
dollars and cents of things.
And Martha with busyness.
Sometimes we believe we canjust stay busy, we can outrun.
You know the feelings.
But Mary in this story notJesus's mother, but Mary, you
know, she acknowledged and facedthat.
(04:07):
You know the coming loss and itliterally brought her closer to
Jesus, right, and I thinkthat's an invitation for us to
think about the way in which wehandle death.
You know I've been an ordainedperson, you know, in ministry a
long time and I see us reallystruggle with all of these sorts
of things.
I was a school chaplain wayback at the beginning of my
(04:29):
ministry and I watched parentswho loved their children really
struggle to talk about grandmaand grandpa's sickness and death
and I saw kids be reallybewildered by the way that their
parents sort of handled it ordidn't handle it at all.
And so I think this is reallyimportant, this whole notion of
(04:54):
loss, and to talk about it andto process it using the very
best of our Christian tradition.
Melissa (05:01):
Yeah, well, you also dropped the C word, the dreaded
C word.
Okay, change.
Yeah, well, you also droppedthe C word.
You know, the dreaded C word.
Bishop Wright (05:05):
Okay.
Melissa (05:06):
Change.
You said we say we don't wantchange.
But it's not change.
We fear it's the loss thatchange represents.
Bishop Wright (05:13):
That's right, that's right.
Melissa (05:15):
Yeah, tell us more about that.
Bishop Wright (05:16):
Well, yeah, we talk about change all the time,
and change, of course, is hard.
But what we?
If we go a little deeper inthis idea of change?
What we're really talking aboutis we don't want to lose the
ways that have been familiar forus.
We don't want to lose somethingthat we have to give up to
embrace the change.
We sort of blunt it, we rejectit or we try to say to each
(05:39):
other well, we're looking for awin-win.
Well, the truth of the matter isthat in many situations, there
is no win-win.
In many situations, everybodyhas to give up a little
something, everybody has to losea little something in service
to a new reality, a new wayforward.
And so I just find that it'smuch more helpful and, I think,
healthy to talk about how weprocess loss.
(06:01):
I mean, I think it's a bridgethat we all have to cross in
life, whether we're talkingabout jobs or families or
relationships or just ourfamiliar.
I think that's what's happeningin our nation to a degree for
some people, that we're losingthings that have been familiar
to us.
And I see that, you know, we'retrying to sort of hold on to
(06:25):
things you know, sort of withour, you know, white till our
knuckles turn white.
And I think part of what we'redealing with, you know, whether
we're talking about smallsystems, or even national
systems, or even internationalsystems is a refusal to to
embrace the loss that comesalong with life.
Melissa (06:44):
Yeah, you know this is really compelling because my
parish is doing a Lenten studyas well and our theme for the
last week was forgiveness.
Go figure, yeah, and you knowit's really interesting.
Someone in my small groupmentioned that when someone is
say, sinned against, if you will, or they feel harmed or wounded
(07:05):
, traumatized, whatever, thatthey often grieve a sense of
identity and I thought that wasreally compelling.
And so when we lose things,when we're harmed, or things
change for any reason or another, it's kind of a stripping away
and that our identity and theway we relate to ourselves and
(07:27):
to others is thereby changed.
Bishop Wright (07:30):
Absolutely.
And so you know, the case I'mtrying to make is just that
growing up in Christ, that is,using all the tools of our faith
to deal with real life, isreally the preferred way, right?
Because, look, loss and griefare a part of real life and
Jesus is standing there in themiddle of real life to say I'm
(07:51):
with you.
And if we aren't engaged inreal life, then we're engaged in
some sort of fantasy.
And the thing about Jesus isJesus does his best work when we
want to engage in real life.
I think this is why this wholenotion of Good Friday and the
silence of Saturday and then theAlleluia of Sunday is an
(08:13):
important way to think aboutlife.
You know that the loss getsprocessed, that God can hold it
all and that we can give it toGod and that we can use God's
way that we find in scriptureand in our traditions.
We can use those ways, thosecompetencies, to make our way.
Look, we don't want to bluntlife, we don't want to outrun
(08:35):
life, we don't want to fend offreality.
We want to go through it, andthat's the invitation, and
that's why it's hard and that'swhy people don't want to do it,
because there's a going through.
There is a stripping away thatcomes with life, and the good
news, you know, in our tradition, is, is that Jesus says I can
use all of that, follow methrough it.
(08:55):
And what I like about Jesus whyJesus is persuasive as far as
I'm concerned is that, you know,we don't have a Jesus who never
went through anything.
You know, this Jesusunderstands betrayal.
This Jesus understands how hegoes to his tradition and even
his tradition can't receive him.
This Jesus understands howdoing good has gotten him in a
(09:15):
lot of trouble and even, in fact, doing good has gotten him
lynched right.
So this Jesus is someone thatwe can sort of get beside and he
can help us to deal with allthe things that we're going to
deal with in life, and so lossbeing one of them, death being
one of them, feeling forsakenbeing one of those, you know.
(09:36):
And so, again, this is aninvitation for us to not to sort
of try to outrun loss, not tobuild a wall around our lives,
not to use indifference as acoping strategy, but to use sort
of Jesus's strategy and ourrelationship to him as a way to
move through the loss we lose.
(09:56):
I mean, you know, in loss wefeel lost because we love right
and we feel lost because we'rehuman beings.
And we feel lost because, youknow, the familiar has been the
familiar and has been a supportto us.
And now those supports, theychange as we get older.
(10:18):
You know, I was young andathletic at one point in my life
.
Now, not so much right, thingschange and we can stay trapped
in sort of nostalgia or we candecide to move forward, you know
, in life, understanding that Iam all of those things you know,
the things that I waspreviously and now I am these
new things, and that causes meto amend my life and define
(10:39):
different strengths anddifferent parts of life, all of
which are part of this wonderfulplan that we call life.
Melissa (11:10):
And so, bishop, I'm looking at the big, bold words
growing up in Christ, and okay.
So the juxtaposition of that isbeing immature, right, and I
can't help but lament or worryor wonder about people who often
get stuck in their grief cyclesand will often fall into the
(11:34):
trap of blaming God for the lossthat they've experienced in
life.
Bishop Wright (11:42):
Yeah, I mean, this is really difficult, right,
because you know this is sodisorienting for people.
So, if God is good, you know,goes the question why did God
give someone I love cancer?
Or you know, why was someonesuddenly taken away in a
catastrophic accident, etc.
And then there is a legitimateI would say a legitimate anger
(12:03):
at God.
And you know, what I say tothose folks is is that, you know
, some people just need thepermission, need to hear that
it's okay to be angry for aseason, it's okay to rage, it's
okay to say all those things,it's okay to ask those questions
.
And we can say that because wehave read our Bible and we know
that the Psalms, those 150wonderful, emotionally
(12:27):
vulnerable Psalms, we can locateourselves, no matter what
season we're in, in those psalms.
There are psalms where peoplewonder out loud you know, god,
where were you?
Even this dinner party withMary and Martha and Lazarus, not
, you know, not long before thisdinner party, in Scripture,
mary and Martha are upset withJesus because they say to Jesus
(12:50):
if you would have been here, man, you know, my brother would not
have died, right.
And so, you know, even in thisdinner party, there's an
evolution.
So I think we have to startwith how we honestly feel and
then I think you know we have tonot tend to these kinds of
feelings all by ourselves.
You know, a good therapist, agood you, a good pastoral
(13:12):
counselor, a good spiritualdirector can help us come to
grips with how we feel about allthese things and then direct us
deeper and into a conversationwith God.
But a lot of times we're angrywith God because we have these
sort of with God, because wehave these sort of panacea ideas
(13:36):
about who God actually is, andwe say that God is some sort of,
or we've been taught that Godis somehow some sort of Superman
or super being who's sort ofstanding atop all the high
skyscrapers waiting to dive downand rescue us from every little
bit of peril.
Well, that's just not therelationship that we have with
God.
That's not who God is.
People love God and they stillwill die.
(13:57):
Some people love God and stillwill become sick.
You know, going to church doesnot guarantee us, you know, a
clean report from the doctor.
That's simply not how thisworks.
We have a God who wants to gothrough things with us and so
you know, we die because we'rehuman.
We get diseases because we'rehuman.
(14:17):
We get sick because we're human.
Catastrophe befalls us becausewe're human and Jesus tends to
all this in Scripture and allthese kind of questions are all
in Scripture.
So I think what it's very humanand very legitimate to wonder,
to rage, to be upset and, at thesame time, what we don't want
to do is be stuck.
(14:38):
We don't want to prolong that.
We don't want our evolution,our relationship with God, our
relationship with ourselves andperhaps even loved ones to stall
.
And that's one of the reasonswhy we did the series was just
to hopefully unstuck some of us.
And that's one of the reasonswhy we did the series was just
to hopefully unstuck some of us,because it's really easy to get
stuck there and it's reallyeasy to just sort of check out.
You know my own mother.
(14:59):
When I was a, when I was a child, my father died and left her
with two children and ratherthan leaning into her church
community, she leaned out andthank God for the young people
in the neighborhood when she wasnot able to take us to church
because of her own crisisemotional and financial and
(15:22):
otherwise other people took usto church and my sister and I
would tell you now, after manyyears, we're so grateful to have
been invited forward intorelationship with other people
and into relationship with thechurch and with God because of
other people.
So maybe there's an invitationfor some of us If we know
(15:43):
someone who is stuck, we getalongside them and, with good
love and good care, we offerthem sort of an invitation to
join us moving forward.
Thank God that happened to meand I hope that I'm doing some
of that with this series, but itis very hard and very
bewildering for a lot of people.
But I think that what we wantto do, and at least what
(16:07):
scripture says, is that we wantto move towards maturity, and
maturity always wants us toengage and never to withdraw.
I think that's what I want tosay.
Melissa (16:15):
Well, I would say gosh Seneca said it before, semisonic
sang it Every new beginningcomes from some other
beginning's end, and Isaiah saysthat God is doing a new thing.
So on the other side of lossthere are new beginnings.
Bishop Wright (16:32):
Yeah, well, here's the hopeful part, and
maybe we can end with this.
The hopeful part is is there'sno loss that we can endure, that
we can't bring to God, andthere's no loss that we can
suffer that, in a relationshipwith God, we can't process Right
, that in a relationship withGod, we can't process right, and
(16:54):
there's no loss that we canendure that God can't find a way
to plant, you know, the nextseason's flowers, and I think
that's the invitation.
So to know that God can makesomething out of what feels like
a dark dead end, is the goodnews of Jesus Christ.
That is the resurrection.
(17:14):
That it looked like Good Friday, it looked like it was over, it
looked like loss was going toget the last word and after a
season and with God'sintervention, new life sprung
forward.
And so that's the invitationfor all of us, and I know that
takes faith, and sometimes we'regoing to have to lend our faith
(17:35):
to others who can't have faithin the midst of their loss.
Melissa (17:40):
Indeed Bishop.
Thank you so much and thank you, listeners, for listening to
For People.
You can follow us on Instagramand Facebook at Bishop Rob
Wright, or by visiting www.
forpeople.
digital.
Please subscribe, leave areview and we'll be back with
you next week.
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