December 20, 2024 • 23 mins
What if faith could topple the mighty and elevate the humble? The Magnificat, Mary's timeless song of hope and defiance, holds the key to addressing today's inequities and injustices.
In this episode, Melissa and Bishop Wright have a conversation about Mary's visit to Elizabeth and how Mary's decree inspires us to hold fast to hope even in the world's brokenness. Listen in for the full conversation.
Read For Faith, the companion devotional.
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Episode Transcript
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Bishop Wright (00:00):
I love how the prophet says that we are
prisoners of hope.
And so we are prisoners of hope.
I read the newspapers and yetat the same time I understand
and do believe with all my soulthat God is real, able, good and
generous.
And when I see some of theseterrible things, I don't see the
(00:20):
absence of God.
I see the presence of brokenpeople lashing out at other
broken people.
Melissa (00:40):
Welcome to Four People with Bishop Rob Wright.
I'm Melissa Rau and this is aconversation inspired by For
Faith, a weekly devotion sentout every Friday.
You can find a link to thisweek's For Faith and a link to
subscribe in the episode'sdescription.
Good morning, bishop.
Bishop Wright (00:55):
Morning.
Melissa (00:56):
You called this week's devotion magnificent and of
course, it's based off of theMagnificat Mary's poem.
You know, I don't know aboutyou, but I kind of hope that one
day I'll be able to like, I'llsay something or write something
down and someone turns it intoa song, right?
So Magnificat, we're in Advent.
(01:18):
Mary is kind of a badass.
What's hitting you?
Bishop Wright (01:24):
I think that has never been said anywhere for
public consumption, that Marygets called a badass.
I mean Well, look, I mean well,set up the scene right, set up
the scene.
So Mary is basically in herfirst trimester scene.
(01:51):
So Mary is basically in herfirst trimester.
Her cousin, elizabeth, is inher second trimester.
Gabriel announces to Mary thatshe is highly favored and that
God has regarded her low estateand that she will be the mother
of our Lord.
She takes a road trip, goes toElizabeth's house, two bellies
(02:13):
bump at the doorway.
They have an exchange.
Elizabeth and her husbandZechariah have struggled with
infertility for decades.
Husband Zechariah havestruggled with infertility for
decades.
How to believe in God when yourprayers go unanswered for
decades.
I mean, before we even get toMary we could stop by Elizabeth
(02:41):
and have her bless us, butnevertheless Elizabeth holds on.
She's pregnant with John theBaptist.
Mary shows up and thenElizabeth's baby John prenatally
jumps in her womb.
At the closeness now of Maryand the prenatal Jesus, of Mary
(03:07):
and the prenatal Jesus.
And in response to all of this,I mean if you can just imagine
two pregnant ladies agreeingtogether about how wonderfully
blessed they feel to be withchild Mary, breaks out in song.
Right, my soul magnifies theLord and my spirit rejoices in
God, my Savior, for God hasregarded the lowest state, my
(03:31):
lowliness.
Generations will call meblessed.
So I guess you know you got tojust sort of get down into the
story and look around.
You know I always tell peopleyou know, walk into the story,
don't just sort of read it orkeep it at an intellectual
distance.
Walk into it and bring what youknow about pregnant ladies into
(03:52):
the story and bring what youknow about people who have
waited a long time and who'vehad a lot of faith and who've
been so blessed that they alsobear a sense of disbelief.
You know this surreal thing ishappening.
Walk into the story with allthat and then you know you get
to see Mary just sing this song.
(04:14):
I mean it's like those oldmovies when I was growing up
where you know all of a suddenthere's a plot and there's
dialogue and then people justbreak out in song and it's an
inspiring song.
It's a song of faith.
There's a wonderful affirmationabout having faith and about
the random nature of beingblessed.
(04:34):
That's all in the story.
But then also the MagnificatMary's song is dangerous.
Melissa (04:42):
That's what I and that's my next question.
You used the word it's sodangerous.
Bishop Wright (04:45):
And that's my next question.
It's so dangerous.
Melissa (04:48):
We have talked about the Magnificat before I know
you're a huge fan of Mary.
I know you're a huge fan of thesong I love the subversive,
like you deem that.
And so what, specifically,bishop, do you think is most
subversive about this passage?
Bishop Wright (05:03):
Well, a couple of things.
So it's inspiring and dangerous.
So it's both at the same time,right.
So here's what's dangerousabout the Magnificat that God is
wide awake and God is acting,and that God is wide awake,
acting and God is seeing, andGod is seeing all the inequity
that perhaps we don't want tosee, don't want to acknowledge
(05:25):
or don't see.
You know, honestly, and thenGod is about the business of
doing something about it thatGod is a God of reversal, and so
this God that shows up inMary's song is a God who has a
contempt for inequity andinjustice, and so, in as much as
(05:47):
God is close and loving andregards Mary's lowliness, this
is also an affirmation of thepoor, the powerless, that their
day is coming and that their dayis on the horizon, they are not
forgotten by God, and thatthose of us who are fat and
(06:08):
happy and who are satisfied toleave the world as it is, with
its inequities, there's areckoning coming for us.
And so, you know, the empty Godwill fill, but the rich and the
full, they will be sent awayempty.
(06:28):
And so this is a God ofreversal.
And so, if you look at it fromthe perspective of the poor,
well, this is mercy, right andmercy, and God's seeing the poor
and the left out and the leftbehind is the medicine for
(06:48):
misery.
But if you come at this poem,this song, from another
perspective, then it becomesominous.
Have plenty, and if you havetoo much and if you've not been
on the side of the poor in yourown life, then you find yourself
(07:08):
, in this poem, at odds with God, and that's a problem.
The main message of this poemis that God keeps God's promises
and that God's strength is inGod keeping God's promises and
that God is God's promises, godis God's patterns, and so when
(07:32):
we say we have faith, do we meanthat we only have intellectual
assent to the idea that there'ssome creator being who is
benevolent?
And if that's where you start,then hallelujah, that's a great
thing.
But if you dig deeper into thestories and you listen to Mary
and Elizabeth and John theBaptist, and later Jesus and
Paul and the whole cast ofcharacters, now you have to
(07:55):
understand that God has apattern and that that pattern is
pretty consistent throughoutscripture and you might find
yourself at odds with that Allright.
Melissa (08:07):
I love this so much because I'm thinking of patterns
that I've recognized in theBible, and I recognize and my
lived experience is like what'shappened in the Bible is not
very different than what happensin real life, which that's why
it's so applicable, right yeah,in real life, which that's why
it's so applicable, right yeah.
I wonder, like I think God, godis God, is God unchanging?
(08:30):
And oftentimes it's the peoplewho are crying out, who see
injustice and are saying help me, help me, help me, and God's
like, I'm here, I'm faithful,all the things.
And sometimes I wonder if thepeople who are writing their
greatest laments long forrevenge or a comeuppance of the
people who are other.
(08:51):
Rather, it were the weak andthe poor and the oppressed
telling the people who have thehalves, the corrupt, that
they're going to go to hell.
And then you've got thosepeople who are up here who are
saying, oh well, they're kind oflike victim shaming the poor
and the weak.
I'm just curious where do youthink God is with the leveling
(09:11):
and the equity?
Where?
Bishop Wright (09:15):
No, that's a great question.
So what you're sort of askingat base is is that, is the
Magnificat, sort of a partisan,you know, sort of treatise,
right?
So it's the have-nots in thestory who have the pen.
And so is this just about we'regoing to make God the way that
we want God, and God is going totake care of us.
The lowly God is going to lift,and those who are high and
(09:39):
mighty, god is going to put themdown.
And I guess you could wonderthat.
I think it's a legitimatequestion.
But Mary is probably veryinfluenced by the song of Hannah
, right?
And so, you know, if we thinkthat individuals are sort of
making things up as they goalong, then I think you know the
likelihood that you know thiscan be sort of batted back and
(10:01):
forth.
Like you know, partisanshipmakes sense, but there's a
thread that runs through.
So when Mary is speaking, it ishighly likely that Mary can
hear the song of Hannah in herhead, right?
And so as we speak in faith toright now, we also speak of a
(10:23):
faith that predates our presentcircumstances, and so faith in
this song is come on, god be whomy ancestors said you were, and
(10:50):
not only that, with the benefitof hindsight, when Moses and
the Hebrews get across the RedSea, it's Miriam who gathers the
women and they sing the songand they say, wow, god,
basically you have triumphed.
You brought a people who's noteven a people, a gaggle of
ethnicities.
You brought a people who's noteven a people, a gaggle of
(11:11):
ethnicities who had a commonbondage history.
You brought them out and, wow,aren't you worthy to be praised.
And so this is the thing aboutfaith.
I think that needs to be heardnowadays, you know, I'm worried
about a faith that's nottethered to the faith of our
ancestors.
Right, because maybe we take toomuch license.
(11:34):
Sometime I want to be in thecompany of Miriam and Hannah and
Mary and Elizabeth.
I want to share my notes of mylived experience with God with
other people who've had livedexperience with God.
Lived experience with God withother people who've had lived
experience with God, and I wantto see that thread.
(11:54):
That thread is what actuallygives me some hope, because now
I get to know who God is.
But if I'm making this all upby myself, then I could see how
a real profound doubt could setin, because one could wonder to
themselves hey, haven't I justmade this all up.
But when I stand beside Pauland Silas and Timothy and so on
(12:16):
and I'm noticing my experiencesand what they're saying some
thousands of years ago actuallyhas resonance and finds me,
locates me now.
Now I think I have a betterunderstanding of what faith is.
Faith is this shared gift overgenerations that God has enabled
.
Melissa (12:59):
This Magnificat an incredible song, inspiring for
so many people and accessiblefor again.
Partisan or not, that's what Ilike about it it's accessible
for all people.
I am wondering how we applythis in our everyday lives,
Bishop we had another incrediblydevastating shooting just occur
(13:21):
in Wisconsin and how can weapply the hope or the messages
of the Magnificat in oureveryday lives, despite all of
the just heartbreaking stuffthat's going on today?
Bishop Wright (13:34):
This is an excellent question because I
think that you know, when wehave these kinds of
conversations, or even whenpeople go to church or hear a
song or hear some inspiring sortof address, they are captured,
arrested for a moment,encouraged, even inspired, and
then you know they get breakingnews on the phone or you know
(13:54):
there's some sort of gut punchin the news and then you know,
things sort of fall apart.
We should remember that, asMary Mary was also, you know, a
teenage girl, and we have foundout this morning that the
perpetrator of this schoolshooting 200 school shootings,
(14:15):
by the way, in 2024, this mostrecent one was perpetrated by a
teenage girl.
So this, you know, one teenagegirl.
This morning we're talkingabout a singing about the glory
of God and one took her own lifeafter taking lives on a school
campus, a Christian schoolcampus called the Abundant Life
(14:36):
School, right.
So I think what we have toremember about Mary is that, as
we think about these charactersin this book, these people have
faith in the midst of reallydire circumstances.
We shouldn't forget that Maryis a subject of Rome, she's
colonized, she's oppressed, shelives and breathes at the
(15:02):
pleasure of Rome on the ground,or an occupying police force who
can take life, who can takelife if they choose to.
(15:22):
So you know.
And they're in bone crushingpoverty.
Because you know, rome and someJewish people who participate
with Rome are extracting, youknow, terrible taxes from people
.
Violence is all around.
People are being crucified fromtime to time, all around.
This is a public lynching, andthis group of people has had to
(15:42):
have faith for many centuries,having been occupied by lots of
different occupying forces.
And so I think that what we getfrom Mary and others in
Scripture is that violence inour midst and tragic days and
terrible days did not prove theabsence of God, right, and so
(16:07):
it's messier than we want it tobe.
It's messy.
It's very, very messy.
And the messiness is thatsomehow we are to believe in God
, to trust in God and to stretchthat over time and
circumstances.
And is that easy?
No, but what we find when welook back into the Bible 66
(16:33):
books of people trying to holdon to God's hand and God holding
on to people's hands in thereal world is that we find out
that nobody is exempt fromtrouble, hardship, heartache,
and that, nevertheless, god isreal.
And so we are caught in thattension.
I love how the prophet saysthat we are prisoners of hope.
(16:56):
And so we are prisoners of hope.
I read the newspapers and yet,at the same time, I understand
and do believe with all my soulthat God is real, able, good and
generous.
And when I see some of theseterrible things, I don't see the
absence of God, I see thepresence of broken people
(17:17):
lashing out at other brokenpeople.
Right, and so God did not makeus robots, and so we have
something called free will, andthe high cost of free will is
that, you know, the hand thatcan squeeze a trigger can also
caress a face, and that's wherewe live.
Melissa (17:42):
People often lash out at other broken people.
Sometimes I feel like it'sreligion itself that often
drives people to tear down andcut up other people, and so I'm
reminded of that.
I don't know if it's a fable, amyth or based on true story.
During World War I think it wasone or two it was Christmas Eve
and there was a ceasefire andpeople started singing Silent
(18:06):
Night.
You know, I don't know.
That image comes to mind.
Bishop Wright (18:10):
I believe it was World War.
I yeah.
Melissa (18:12):
Yeah, I just.
How can we be better at beingGod's people, holding intention
what we believe and notvilifying or atting at people
Like?
I don't want to happen topeople based upon my belief.
I want to be able to protectmine without running roughshod
over others.
Bishop Wright (18:32):
Well, you know, one of the things we've got to
take a look at is you know, whatis Jesus's definition of
strength?
Right?
And so I think, when I look atthe media nowadays and I look at
you know, various groups layingclaim to, you know, christian
identity, what I what comes tomy mind is is that so, even as
(18:57):
they say, yeah, I'm a Christian,then they go sort of take a
left turn and then begin todefine strength which looks much
more like aggression.
And so I you know, if all of usand all of us fall short, but if
all of us would do a better jobat trying to live out the
(19:18):
strength as defined by Jesus, Ithink this may help us immensely
, jesus, I think this may helpus immensely.
So strength is not how we look.
One of the big cautionaries,even in the Magnificat, is how
are you doing power?
How are you doing power?
How are you doing power?
And I think there's nothingmore sad than those of us who do
(19:41):
power the way the world says weought to do power, and then
sprinkle some Jesus talk overtop of it.
Right, I think that hypocrisy,that hypocrisy has caused many
people to walk away from thewhole Christian enterprise
because they see the hypocrisy.
So you can't have your cake andeat it too.
Either you're going to followJesus down the road that he lays
(20:06):
out, which looks like strengththat the world doesn't really
understand and that the worldactually calls weak, or you're
going to sort of say I'm goingto live out strength and power
the way the world says, but thenI'll just I'll label it Jesus.
Right, that's called Jesus.
Identity theft is what that'scalled.
Right, that's called Jesus.
Identity theft is what that'scalled right, that's called
(20:26):
bleeding switch, that's calledfalsehood, that's called BS, is
what that's called right.
So we, you know, and Jesus'sidea of strength is to trust God
, to trust God's promises, touse God's power in the form of
mercy, to forgive, to shareright, and so I think you know
(20:50):
you brought me back to the story.
So I think what we've got to dois really absolutely wash
ourselves regularly in Jesus'sversion of strength, in God's
version of strength, which istime tested.
Remember, god is God's pattern,right?
This is what we have to stopand think about a minute.
God is God's pattern.
(21:10):
So do you have faith in thepattern God, in the pattern of
God that emerges in scripture,or are you making stuff up on
your own Right?
Melissa (21:18):
We're patterning ourselves after the people who
God, yeah, yeah.
Bishop Wright (21:22):
What's the old line?
You know, in the beginning Godmade us in God's image and ever
since we've been returning thefavor right.
So I mean, it's funny untilit's tragic, it's funny until
it's tragic, and then, when it'stragic, it's absolutely tragic.
(21:43):
And when it's tragic, it'sabsolutely tragic, and what we
end up doing is reallycommitting idolatry, heresy and
blasphemy all at the same time.
We end up being at odds withGod, we end up being the enemy
of God For today's purposes.
What the Magnificat says, whatMary says, is go ahead, god, be
(22:06):
the God that you have alwaysbeen, see the lowly and raise
them up, fill the hungry.
You know, for those who are onthrones, I mean, it's not lost
on us that when Mary's talkingabout thrones, people being cast
down from thrones, she'sprobably thinking of, you know,
the governor Herod.
She's probably thinking of, youknow the governor Herod.
(22:29):
She's probably thinking of youknow the emperor.
She's probably thinking aboutall these folks who she has
firsthand knowledge of and theway that they wield power.
And she's saying God, you know,we know that you're a God of
equity.
The ancestors tell us you're aGod of equity, of justice, and
so come on, god, be that God ofequity of justice, and so, come
on, god be that.
And she believes this so muchthat she talks about the future
(22:50):
like it's already been settled,and that's the Christmas faith.
The Christmas faith is that wejust get to celebrate it every
year, but we believe the matteris settled.
It's settled, and the workingout of all of this is just the
death rattle right of sin andbrokenness and hatred, on the
(23:10):
way to a foregone conclusion,which is we are siblings and one
day all the isms will be dead.
Melissa (23:19):
A magnificent thing, for sure.
Bishop Wright (23:21):
A magnificent thing.
Melissa (23:24):
Thank you so much, and, listeners, thank you for
listening to For People.
You can follow us on Instagramand Facebook at Bishop Rob
Wright.
Please subscribe, leave areview and we'll be back with
you next week.
I love how the prophet says that we are
prisoners of hope.
And so we are prisoners of hope.
I read the newspapers and yetat the same time I understand
and do believe with all my soulthat God is real, able, good and
generous.
And when I see some of theseterrible things, I don't see the
(00:20):
absence of God.
I see the presence of brokenpeople lashing out at other
broken people.
Melissa (00:40):
Welcome to Four People with Bishop Rob Wright.
I'm Melissa Rau and this is aconversation inspired by For
Faith, a weekly devotion sentout every Friday.
You can find a link to thisweek's For Faith and a link to
subscribe in the episode'sdescription.
Good morning, bishop.
Bishop Wright (00:55):
Morning.
Melissa (00:56):
You called this week's devotion magnificent and of
course, it's based off of theMagnificat Mary's poem.
You know, I don't know aboutyou, but I kind of hope that one
day I'll be able to like, I'llsay something or write something
down and someone turns it intoa song, right?
So Magnificat, we're in Advent.
(01:18):
Mary is kind of a badass.
What's hitting you?
Bishop Wright (01:24):
I think that has never been said anywhere for
public consumption, that Marygets called a badass.
I mean Well, look, I mean well,set up the scene right, set up
the scene.
So Mary is basically in herfirst trimester scene.
(01:51):
So Mary is basically in herfirst trimester.
Her cousin, elizabeth, is inher second trimester.
Gabriel announces to Mary thatshe is highly favored and that
God has regarded her low estateand that she will be the mother
of our Lord.
She takes a road trip, goes toElizabeth's house, two bellies
(02:13):
bump at the doorway.
They have an exchange.
Elizabeth and her husbandZechariah have struggled with
infertility for decades.
Husband Zechariah havestruggled with infertility for
decades.
How to believe in God when yourprayers go unanswered for
decades.
I mean, before we even get toMary we could stop by Elizabeth
(02:41):
and have her bless us, butnevertheless Elizabeth holds on.
She's pregnant with John theBaptist.
Mary shows up and thenElizabeth's baby John prenatally
jumps in her womb.
At the closeness now of Maryand the prenatal Jesus, of Mary
(03:07):
and the prenatal Jesus.
And in response to all of this,I mean if you can just imagine
two pregnant ladies agreeingtogether about how wonderfully
blessed they feel to be withchild Mary, breaks out in song.
Right, my soul magnifies theLord and my spirit rejoices in
God, my Savior, for God hasregarded the lowest state, my
(03:31):
lowliness.
Generations will call meblessed.
So I guess you know you got tojust sort of get down into the
story and look around.
You know I always tell peopleyou know, walk into the story,
don't just sort of read it orkeep it at an intellectual
distance.
Walk into it and bring what youknow about pregnant ladies into
(03:52):
the story and bring what youknow about people who have
waited a long time and who'vehad a lot of faith and who've
been so blessed that they alsobear a sense of disbelief.
You know this surreal thing ishappening.
Walk into the story with allthat and then you know you get
to see Mary just sing this song.
(04:14):
I mean it's like those oldmovies when I was growing up
where you know all of a suddenthere's a plot and there's
dialogue and then people justbreak out in song and it's an
inspiring song.
It's a song of faith.
There's a wonderful affirmationabout having faith and about
the random nature of beingblessed.
(04:34):
That's all in the story.
But then also the MagnificatMary's song is dangerous.
Melissa (04:42):
That's what I and that's my next question.
You used the word it's sodangerous.
Bishop Wright (04:45):
And that's my next question.
It's so dangerous.
Melissa (04:48):
We have talked about the Magnificat before I know
you're a huge fan of Mary.
I know you're a huge fan of thesong I love the subversive,
like you deem that.
And so what, specifically,bishop, do you think is most
subversive about this passage?
Bishop Wright (05:03):
Well, a couple of things.
So it's inspiring and dangerous.
So it's both at the same time,right.
So here's what's dangerousabout the Magnificat that God is
wide awake and God is acting,and that God is wide awake,
acting and God is seeing, andGod is seeing all the inequity
that perhaps we don't want tosee, don't want to acknowledge
(05:25):
or don't see.
You know, honestly, and thenGod is about the business of
doing something about it thatGod is a God of reversal, and so
this God that shows up inMary's song is a God who has a
contempt for inequity andinjustice, and so, in as much as
(05:47):
God is close and loving andregards Mary's lowliness, this
is also an affirmation of thepoor, the powerless, that their
day is coming and that their dayis on the horizon, they are not
forgotten by God, and thatthose of us who are fat and
(06:08):
happy and who are satisfied toleave the world as it is, with
its inequities, there's areckoning coming for us.
And so, you know, the empty Godwill fill, but the rich and the
full, they will be sent awayempty.
(06:28):
And so this is a God ofreversal.
And so, if you look at it fromthe perspective of the poor,
well, this is mercy, right andmercy, and God's seeing the poor
and the left out and the leftbehind is the medicine for
(06:48):
misery.
But if you come at this poem,this song, from another
perspective, then it becomesominous.
Have plenty, and if you havetoo much and if you've not been
on the side of the poor in yourown life, then you find yourself
(07:08):
, in this poem, at odds with God, and that's a problem.
The main message of this poemis that God keeps God's promises
and that God's strength is inGod keeping God's promises and
that God is God's promises, godis God's patterns, and so when
(07:32):
we say we have faith, do we meanthat we only have intellectual
assent to the idea that there'ssome creator being who is
benevolent?
And if that's where you start,then hallelujah, that's a great
thing.
But if you dig deeper into thestories and you listen to Mary
and Elizabeth and John theBaptist, and later Jesus and
Paul and the whole cast ofcharacters, now you have to
(07:55):
understand that God has apattern and that that pattern is
pretty consistent throughoutscripture and you might find
yourself at odds with that Allright.
Melissa (08:07):
I love this so much because I'm thinking of patterns
that I've recognized in theBible, and I recognize and my
lived experience is like what'shappened in the Bible is not
very different than what happensin real life, which that's why
it's so applicable, right yeah,in real life, which that's why
it's so applicable, right yeah.
I wonder, like I think God, godis God, is God unchanging?
(08:30):
And oftentimes it's the peoplewho are crying out, who see
injustice and are saying help me, help me, help me, and God's
like, I'm here, I'm faithful,all the things.
And sometimes I wonder if thepeople who are writing their
greatest laments long forrevenge or a comeuppance of the
people who are other.
(08:51):
Rather, it were the weak andthe poor and the oppressed
telling the people who have thehalves, the corrupt, that
they're going to go to hell.
And then you've got thosepeople who are up here who are
saying, oh well, they're kind oflike victim shaming the poor
and the weak.
I'm just curious where do youthink God is with the leveling
(09:11):
and the equity?
Where?
Bishop Wright (09:15):
No, that's a great question.
So what you're sort of askingat base is is that, is the
Magnificat, sort of a partisan,you know, sort of treatise,
right?
So it's the have-nots in thestory who have the pen.
And so is this just about we'regoing to make God the way that
we want God, and God is going totake care of us.
The lowly God is going to lift,and those who are high and
(09:39):
mighty, god is going to put themdown.
And I guess you could wonderthat.
I think it's a legitimatequestion.
But Mary is probably veryinfluenced by the song of Hannah
, right?
And so, you know, if we thinkthat individuals are sort of
making things up as they goalong, then I think you know the
likelihood that you know thiscan be sort of batted back and
(10:01):
forth.
Like you know, partisanshipmakes sense, but there's a
thread that runs through.
So when Mary is speaking, it ishighly likely that Mary can
hear the song of Hannah in herhead, right?
And so as we speak in faith toright now, we also speak of a
(10:23):
faith that predates our presentcircumstances, and so faith in
this song is come on, god be whomy ancestors said you were, and
(10:50):
not only that, with the benefitof hindsight, when Moses and
the Hebrews get across the RedSea, it's Miriam who gathers the
women and they sing the songand they say, wow, god,
basically you have triumphed.
You brought a people who's noteven a people, a gaggle of
ethnicities.
You brought a people who's noteven a people, a gaggle of
(11:11):
ethnicities who had a commonbondage history.
You brought them out and, wow,aren't you worthy to be praised.
And so this is the thing aboutfaith.
I think that needs to be heardnowadays, you know, I'm worried
about a faith that's nottethered to the faith of our
ancestors.
Right, because maybe we take toomuch license.
(11:34):
Sometime I want to be in thecompany of Miriam and Hannah and
Mary and Elizabeth.
I want to share my notes of mylived experience with God with
other people who've had livedexperience with God.
Lived experience with God withother people who've had lived
experience with God, and I wantto see that thread.
(11:54):
That thread is what actuallygives me some hope, because now
I get to know who God is.
But if I'm making this all upby myself, then I could see how
a real profound doubt could setin, because one could wonder to
themselves hey, haven't I justmade this all up.
But when I stand beside Pauland Silas and Timothy and so on
(12:16):
and I'm noticing my experiencesand what they're saying some
thousands of years ago actuallyhas resonance and finds me,
locates me now.
Now I think I have a betterunderstanding of what faith is.
Faith is this shared gift overgenerations that God has enabled
.
Melissa (12:59):
This Magnificat an incredible song, inspiring for
so many people and accessiblefor again.
Partisan or not, that's what Ilike about it it's accessible
for all people.
I am wondering how we applythis in our everyday lives,
Bishop we had another incrediblydevastating shooting just occur
(13:21):
in Wisconsin and how can weapply the hope or the messages
of the Magnificat in oureveryday lives, despite all of
the just heartbreaking stuffthat's going on today?
Bishop Wright (13:34):
This is an excellent question because I
think that you know, when wehave these kinds of
conversations, or even whenpeople go to church or hear a
song or hear some inspiring sortof address, they are captured,
arrested for a moment,encouraged, even inspired, and
then you know they get breakingnews on the phone or you know
(13:54):
there's some sort of gut punchin the news and then you know,
things sort of fall apart.
We should remember that, asMary Mary was also, you know, a
teenage girl, and we have foundout this morning that the
perpetrator of this schoolshooting 200 school shootings,
(14:15):
by the way, in 2024, this mostrecent one was perpetrated by a
teenage girl.
So this, you know, one teenagegirl.
This morning we're talkingabout a singing about the glory
of God and one took her own lifeafter taking lives on a school
campus, a Christian schoolcampus called the Abundant Life
(14:36):
School, right.
So I think what we have toremember about Mary is that, as
we think about these charactersin this book, these people have
faith in the midst of reallydire circumstances.
We shouldn't forget that Maryis a subject of Rome, she's
colonized, she's oppressed, shelives and breathes at the
(15:02):
pleasure of Rome on the ground,or an occupying police force who
can take life, who can takelife if they choose to.
(15:22):
So you know.
And they're in bone crushingpoverty.
Because you know, rome and someJewish people who participate
with Rome are extracting, youknow, terrible taxes from people
.
Violence is all around.
People are being crucified fromtime to time, all around.
This is a public lynching, andthis group of people has had to
(15:42):
have faith for many centuries,having been occupied by lots of
different occupying forces.
And so I think that what we getfrom Mary and others in
Scripture is that violence inour midst and tragic days and
terrible days did not prove theabsence of God, right, and so
(16:07):
it's messier than we want it tobe.
It's messy.
It's very, very messy.
And the messiness is thatsomehow we are to believe in God
, to trust in God and to stretchthat over time and
circumstances.
And is that easy?
No, but what we find when welook back into the Bible 66
(16:33):
books of people trying to holdon to God's hand and God holding
on to people's hands in thereal world is that we find out
that nobody is exempt fromtrouble, hardship, heartache,
and that, nevertheless, god isreal.
And so we are caught in thattension.
I love how the prophet saysthat we are prisoners of hope.
(16:56):
And so we are prisoners of hope.
I read the newspapers and yet,at the same time, I understand
and do believe with all my soulthat God is real, able, good and
generous.
And when I see some of theseterrible things, I don't see the
absence of God, I see thepresence of broken people
(17:17):
lashing out at other brokenpeople.
Right, and so God did not makeus robots, and so we have
something called free will, andthe high cost of free will is
that, you know, the hand thatcan squeeze a trigger can also
caress a face, and that's wherewe live.
Melissa (17:42):
People often lash out at other broken people.
Sometimes I feel like it'sreligion itself that often
drives people to tear down andcut up other people, and so I'm
reminded of that.
I don't know if it's a fable, amyth or based on true story.
During World War I think it wasone or two it was Christmas Eve
and there was a ceasefire andpeople started singing Silent
(18:06):
Night.
You know, I don't know.
That image comes to mind.
Bishop Wright (18:10):
I believe it was World War.
I yeah.
Melissa (18:12):
Yeah, I just.
How can we be better at beingGod's people, holding intention
what we believe and notvilifying or atting at people
Like?
I don't want to happen topeople based upon my belief.
I want to be able to protectmine without running roughshod
over others.
Bishop Wright (18:32):
Well, you know, one of the things we've got to
take a look at is you know, whatis Jesus's definition of
strength?
Right?
And so I think, when I look atthe media nowadays and I look at
you know, various groups layingclaim to, you know, christian
identity, what I what comes tomy mind is is that so, even as
(18:57):
they say, yeah, I'm a Christian,then they go sort of take a
left turn and then begin todefine strength which looks much
more like aggression.
And so I you know, if all of usand all of us fall short, but if
all of us would do a better jobat trying to live out the
(19:18):
strength as defined by Jesus, Ithink this may help us immensely
, jesus, I think this may helpus immensely.
So strength is not how we look.
One of the big cautionaries,even in the Magnificat, is how
are you doing power?
How are you doing power?
How are you doing power?
And I think there's nothingmore sad than those of us who do
(19:41):
power the way the world says weought to do power, and then
sprinkle some Jesus talk overtop of it.
Right, I think that hypocrisy,that hypocrisy has caused many
people to walk away from thewhole Christian enterprise
because they see the hypocrisy.
So you can't have your cake andeat it too.
Either you're going to followJesus down the road that he lays
(20:06):
out, which looks like strengththat the world doesn't really
understand and that the worldactually calls weak, or you're
going to sort of say I'm goingto live out strength and power
the way the world says, but thenI'll just I'll label it Jesus.
Right, that's called Jesus.
Identity theft is what that'scalled.
Right, that's called Jesus.
Identity theft is what that'scalled right, that's called
(20:26):
bleeding switch, that's calledfalsehood, that's called BS, is
what that's called right.
So we, you know, and Jesus'sidea of strength is to trust God
, to trust God's promises, touse God's power in the form of
mercy, to forgive, to shareright, and so I think you know
(20:50):
you brought me back to the story.
So I think what we've got to dois really absolutely wash
ourselves regularly in Jesus'sversion of strength, in God's
version of strength, which istime tested.
Remember, god is God's pattern,right?
This is what we have to stopand think about a minute.
God is God's pattern.
(21:10):
So do you have faith in thepattern God, in the pattern of
God that emerges in scripture,or are you making stuff up on
your own Right?
Melissa (21:18):
We're patterning ourselves after the people who
God, yeah, yeah.
Bishop Wright (21:22):
What's the old line?
You know, in the beginning Godmade us in God's image and ever
since we've been returning thefavor right.
So I mean, it's funny untilit's tragic, it's funny until
it's tragic, and then, when it'stragic, it's absolutely tragic.
(21:43):
And when it's tragic, it'sabsolutely tragic, and what we
end up doing is reallycommitting idolatry, heresy and
blasphemy all at the same time.
We end up being at odds withGod, we end up being the enemy
of God For today's purposes.
What the Magnificat says, whatMary says, is go ahead, god, be
(22:06):
the God that you have alwaysbeen, see the lowly and raise
them up, fill the hungry.
You know, for those who are onthrones, I mean, it's not lost
on us that when Mary's talkingabout thrones, people being cast
down from thrones, she'sprobably thinking of, you know,
the governor Herod.
She's probably thinking of, youknow the governor Herod.
(22:29):
She's probably thinking of youknow the emperor.
She's probably thinking aboutall these folks who she has
firsthand knowledge of and theway that they wield power.
And she's saying God, you know,we know that you're a God of
equity.
The ancestors tell us you're aGod of equity, of justice, and
so come on, god, be that God ofequity of justice, and so, come
on, god be that.
And she believes this so muchthat she talks about the future
(22:50):
like it's already been settled,and that's the Christmas faith.
The Christmas faith is that wejust get to celebrate it every
year, but we believe the matteris settled.
It's settled, and the workingout of all of this is just the
death rattle right of sin andbrokenness and hatred, on the
(23:10):
way to a foregone conclusion,which is we are siblings and one
day all the isms will be dead.
Melissa (23:19):
A magnificent thing, for sure.
Bishop Wright (23:21):
A magnificent thing.
Melissa (23:24):
Thank you so much, and, listeners, thank you for
listening to For People.
You can follow us on Instagramand Facebook at Bishop Rob
Wright.
Please subscribe, leave areview and we'll be back with
you next week.
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