May 30, 2025 • 23 mins
Prison takes many shapes and forms. The size of an individuals home or investment portfolio pales in comparison to true spiritual release - a freedom of purpose, clarity, and belonging that transcends physical limitations. This God given release is true freedom!
In this episode, Melissa and Bishop Wright delve into Acts 16, reflecting on the story of Paul and Silas. Imprisoned yet singing joyfully after freeing a slave girl from demonic possession, their experience serves as a powerful metaphor. The conversation explores themes of oppression and freedom, highlighting a recurring pattern in human history: the tendency to define freedom as "keeping a foot on someone else's neck."
Bishop Wright contrasts this with the radically different model offered by Jesus—liberation that lifts others rather than subjugates them. He emphasizes that before we can transform societal systems, we must first confront the "prisons" within ourselves: the grudges we cling to, the biases we perpetuate, and the wealth we hoard while others are deprived of life's basic needs. Listen in for the full conversation.
Read For Faith, the companion devotional.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bishop Wright (00:00):
I want to know the God that can bring joy to a
dingy dungeon right?
I want to know that God that is.
The genesis of the Christianstory is that when we were
supposed to be crying we werepraising God.
Prisons look lots of differentways.
I mean, when I was a littlepoor kid, growing up in public
housing, it never dawned on methat you could live in a 6,000,
(00:23):
7,000 square foot home with allthe amenities and feel like you
were in prison.
Melissa (00:40):
Welcome to For People with Bishop Rob Wright.
I'm Melissa Rau and this is aconversation inspired by Fosr
Faith, a weekly devotion sentout every Friday.
You can find a link to thisweek's Four Faith and a link to
subscribe in the episode'sdescription.
Good morning, bishop.
Bishop Wright (00:55):
Morning morning.
Melissa (00:56):
You called this week's devotion Release and it's based
off of Acts, chapter 16, verses16 through 34, which I have to
say there's a lot going on inthis overall passage right.
Bishop Wright (01:10):
It's huge.
Melissa (01:11):
For sure.
So do you want to set thesetting for us?
Bishop Wright (01:16):
Well, yeah, I'll give it a try.
I mean, it's a lot to say and Iwould really recommend to folks
to just pick up your Bible oryour phone or your tablet,
whatever it is, and turn to thebook of Acts.
It's a book right after theGospels.
It's where we find Paul'smissionary journeys, et cetera.
(01:38):
It's how Paul then begins tosort of go then through the
known world, he and others, andsort of tell the story of Jesus
and demonstrate the power offaith in Jesus.
And so, by the time we get tothe 16th chapter of the story of
Jesus and demonstrate the powerof faith in Jesus.
And so, by the time we get tothe 16th chapter of the book of
Acts, we have this wonderfulencounter Right, paul and his
companion, silas now arewandering around trying to
trying to tell the story ofJesus, the risen Lord, and and
(02:01):
they come upon a little town,and and they come upon a woman,
a girl, apparently, not a littlegirl, but a girl, young girl,
who according to Scripture, wasdemon possessed.
But this demon possessed, theparticular nature of this
possession, was that this girlhad a gift Now she could tell
(02:22):
the future.
She was a fortune teller.
Right, the girl had a gift.
Now she could tell the future.
She was a fortune teller, right, and the people who owned her.
She was a slave girl and thepeople who owned her were making
a lot of money on this gift.
I mean, just imagine thatpeople were just lining up to
pay their nickels, right, to betold you know palm reading and
fortune telling and all that,and you know.
And so somehow this girl latcheson to Paul and Silas and starts
(02:46):
following you know them aroundand she says, interestingly
enough, hey, paul and Silas, Iknow that you're a slave of God,
and you know.
And she starts shouting at themand so on and so forth.
And then it says Paul, annoyedby the spectacle and annoyed by
her following them around, castsout her demon right Now, we got
(03:11):
a problem, right, because nowher newfound freedom, her
newfound release, has changed aneconomic model model for these
folks.
And now they're upset.
And what they don't say is, hey, we're all for freedom and
we're all for religion, as longas they don't impact our ability
(03:35):
to make a buck.
They don't say that.
What they say is, hey, theseChristians are causing a problem
, right, and so they're notexactly honest about the whole
thing.
Anyway, the story goes on.
Paul and Silas are thrown injail for all of this, so they
set her free and then becomecaptives themselves.
Melissa (03:58):
Right.
Well, I'm fascinated by thewhole thing.
Because this whole entirepassage it's problematic for me?
Well, because there's lots ofholes in it, like how do we know
certain things and how do weget to the end?
And you know, because we alsotalk about Paul and Silas being
jailed because of it.
Bishop Wright (04:19):
Yeah.
Melissa (04:19):
Right, and so they were able to make a case to the
court and say, hey, these peopleare saying things and it's
causing us to do things that areunlawful for us, which is wild,
because I'm pretty sure thatthe message of Jesus was all
about love and freedom, and soreally, what this is about is
(04:41):
liberty.
To me, and I'm struck I don'tknow if this is a human
condition I'm struck by the factthat sometimes it seems like
certain people who need to befree in order to be free or
experience liberty in their verylimited way of thinking, need
to oppress other people.
(05:04):
So we have to enslave and jailother people in order for us to
be or exercise the freedomwhatever that's really, that's,
that's, that's a conundrum to meBishop.
Bishop Wright (05:16):
Yeah, you got it, you nailed it.
That's the conundrum, rightthat that you know.
History tells us thatoftentimes the quest for freedom
by a certain group requires thebondage of another group.
Melissa (05:34):
Well, and here's the interesting thing.
So last week we had a greatconversation about speech, yeah,
and it doesn't escape me thatthis week we're talking about
release.
And it doesn't escape me thatthis week we're talking about
release.
And I went immediately to theFirst Amendment, our First
Amendment right, which isfreedom of religion, freedom of
speech, freedom to about theBill of.
(05:55):
Rights says, the civil rights ofnone shall be abridged on
account of religious belief orworship, nor shall any national
(06:18):
religion be established, norshall the full and equal rights
of conscience be in any manneror on any pretext infringed.
And so I feel like right now,in this time of Christian
nationalism, I think some folkswould rather be free by
subjugating or oppressing otherpeople's belief systems, which
is antithetical to even ourfounding documents of our
(06:41):
country.
I don't know what to do aboutit.
Bishop Wright (06:44):
Bishop documents of our country.
I don't know what to do aboutit, bishop.
Well, I mean, I think whatyou're doing, if you dig down
deep, is that you'rearticulating what we would call
sin, which is our ability towrite out ideals Right, and then
, because of commerce or becauseof other considerations
(07:04):
superiority complexes, ego,arrogance, the propensity for
abuse of those who are weaker weend up living at odds with the
ideals we espouse, right.
And so you know, it's like whatSt Paul said you know the good
I ought to do I don't do rightand the evil that I do do, and I
(07:30):
know I shouldn't do.
Well, there I am, and so it isthis ability to know better but
not to do better.
You might also say it's thisnotion of competing priorities.
Right, so it may have beennormalized to hold slaves in the
Roman colonies, uh, and it wasum.
And so these gentlemen, uh, whowere uh, basically using this
(07:54):
little girl and her possession,her malady um, thought, hey,
what's the problem?
This is normal for the society,but there is this thing, and,
even though Paul and Silas don'tcome to it in a sort of a
dignified and, you know, in sortof clear fashion, they back
(08:16):
their way into setting this girlfree, right?
I mean, paul just sets her freebecause he's annoyed by her
shouting out.
But, you know, they take us tothis intersection where we're
going to always stay in tensionwith God, because for us, you
know, freedom really only meansto be able to choose the
captivity of our own sort ofheart's desire, and religion, in
(08:40):
many ways, for many of us, isonly the spiritual resources to
help us maintain what is alreadybeneath what God would define
as freedom.
And so what we find ourselvesat again is this intersection,
is this pinch point, is thistension about?
You know, what are our actualpriorities?
(09:01):
Lived priorities, lived reality.
And yeah, do we all fall short?
Of course we do, but it's onething to sort of fall short and
then just sit there and you'reshort falling.
It's another thing to continuethe quest right.
And so our faith, the word ofGod, sacraments, all the
(09:21):
instruments of Christianmaturity in the church, the
resources for Christian maturityin church are supposed to be
moving us, along with our ownappetite to please God more than
we please the culture, thesociety, etc.
And occasionally those peoplecome along, and that's the whole
(09:42):
point of it.
And what do we do to thosepeople come along, and that's
the whole point of it.
And what do we do to thosepeople?
Well, when they come along andbring us a freedom that we
didn't dare to dream about andperhaps Devin never really
wanted, we castigate them,incarcerate them or worse, and
that's what human history saysright, when we really what we
really want is a hierarchy, andthe hierarchy goes commerce,
(10:08):
freedom and service to commerce,religion and service to
commerce, and that, franklyspeaking, has been the American
model from, you know, 1619.
And what we have done on ourbest days is begin to question
that On our worst days, we actlike that wasn't our reality.
Melissa (11:13):
right.
Is that not like a free thingto do, like they're practicing
their freedom because in Christthey are free?
Bishop Wright (11:19):
They believe that .
Melissa (11:21):
It causes an earthquake and the jailer was going to
kill himself.
Bishop Wright (11:26):
They stopped the suicide.
That's right yeah.
Melissa (11:29):
But they also could have.
They could have been free, butthey were already free, so they
didn't flee, but actually helpedthis person not kill himself.
Bishop Wright (11:39):
That's right.
Melissa (11:40):
Who then became a believer and I guess maybe this
is why I don't like the story,because there's so many holes.
It's like okay, well, that waseasy.
He became a believer prettyquickly.
Bishop Wright (11:49):
Yeah, well, I mean, well, just go slow here.
I mean, think about it, right,think about it.
I mean we saw this also in DrKing and all of those freedom
riders and civil rightsleadership.
You know, think about it.
Now You're being incarcerated,but you're going to jail, happy,
right, because the freedom isto be finally living life on
purpose, as I like to say, it isto have your mind and behind in
(12:11):
line.
Right, that's peace, that's joy, right it's.
You know, we find ourselves, youknow a lot of us, in perpetual
states of lament, right, andanxiety, and maybe even
depression.
And you know, that's one greatdefinition of depression.
Right, it's a very intenseanxiety about one thing or the
other, about just about thisominous cloud of anxiety.
(12:33):
But how do we begin to chipaway at that?
Well, we take steps toward thatthing.
We say our heart wants right,and this begins to cause joy in
us, which is counter cognitive.
So I can just imagine that thejailer is like wait a minute,
wait a minute, wait a minute.
You guys are free walkingaround, everything was cool.
All you had to do was colludewith a system of captivity and
(12:56):
everything would have been cool.
No, but you decided not to.
You ended up now behind ironbars.
You sound free even thoughyou're behind bars, right?
And all the guys who areparticipating in systems of
abuse, you know, maybe they lookfree but perhaps they don't.
I don't see as much joy in themas they pursue, you know,
(13:18):
commerce and abuse and serviceto commerce.
I see joy in you characters.
Now, that's got to confound theguy who, let's say, is a career
, a corrections officer.
That's got to, you know.
You know he's got shackles ontheir feet, they got shackles on
their hand and they're having aparty man, they're having a
good worship party, right.
So, yeah, I could see how thatmight prick up a person's
(13:38):
conscience and imagination andsay I want to know that God,
right, I want to know the Godthat can bring joy to a dingy
dungeon, right, I want to knowthat God.
And you know, the truth of thematter is that is the Genesis of
the Christian story, is is thatwhen we were supposed to be
crying, we were praising God,right?
(13:59):
And?
And uh, you know, I mean thatis the story of Easter, right,
the good Friday thing, okay, themovement's over, they lynched.
And uh, you know, I mean, thatis the story of Easter, right,
the good Friday thing.
Okay, the movement's over.
They lynched the um, theylynched the leader, but wait, oh
, this just in folks.
You know he's not dead, youknow life goes on, and
dramatically so, and you don'teven have to fear death.
Now, that's release, that'srelease, right, and so release,
(14:28):
that's release, right.
And so you know that's thisemancipatory way that God is in
the world, right.
And so you know prisons looklots of different ways.
I mean, when I was a littlepoor kid, growing up in public
housing, it never dawned on methat you could live in a 6,000,
dawned on me that you could livein a 6,000, 7,000 square foot
home with all the amenities andall the beauty and conveniences
(14:49):
and feel like you were in prison.
It never dawned on me.
And I have met people on deathrow and people who are
incarcerated and people who arein dire circumstances, and they
feel like to me as they talk andspeak to me as the most free
people I've ever met, and sothere's a great irony I think
(15:09):
this story brings us down to.
But it brings us down to thisother thing what's fundamental
about God is God wants to causerelease in all God's children,
right, and so not just some ofGod's children, and so, and God
seems to want a release that isnot predicated or doesn't need
(15:30):
the subjugation of others.
Now, that's proprietary,especially in human history,
because we've got a lot of onegroup up while they have their
foot on the neck of somebodyelse We've got a lot of that in
history Seems like that's theonly way we know how to be free,
right, whether it's the PaxRomana or the Pax Americana,
right, that's the only way weknow how to be free is to have
(15:52):
our foot on somebody's necks, isto have our foot on somebody's
necks.
But Jesus is offering thisfreedom of purpose, this freedom
of clarity, this freedom ofbelonging, this freedom of
knowing and being known to us,and it's beyond circumstances
(16:16):
and that is what blows the mind.
So, yeah, they end up rescuingthe jailer, like the dude who's
in charge of their incarcerationnow has become a beneficiary of
their wacky Christianity whichsays, oh, jail is just an
opportunity to sing.
Melissa (16:30):
Yeah, and and maybe, maybe that's another rub.
For me is like even going backto the slave girl.
You know they didn't ask her ifshe felt jailed, so I'm like,
oh, they blundered.
They didn't ask they just didit and it's like how do you know
that she didn't think it was agift?
You know, it was actuallycalled a gift by the way, yeah,
(16:52):
the gift of divination right.
Right, by the way, in thescripture.
Yeah, the gift of divination,right, right.
And so it's like, okay.
Well, that aside, I just wonderhow much jail or being bound is
an illusion.
Bishop Wright (17:02):
I think there are literal jails and I think there
are figurative jails, for sure,right, the only thing that
seems constant in that for me isthat an abiding, generative
life with God begins to help usto see the kind of jail cells
that we're in.
Some of us are in tragic jailcells of fear, you know, and
(17:26):
fear comes in lots of differentflavors.
You know we're in, you know,lots of different jails about.
We feel like we are assigned toa life which is flat and mean.
We you know so.
So you know, jail cells come ina lot of ways.
We see a lot of parts of ourlife as death sentences rather
(17:51):
than opportunities.
You know, my son, my son, ouryoungest son, is dyslexic and
struggled immensely.
His other brothers and sistersdidn't weren't dyslexic and
really struggled to find his owneducational sort of joy.
And by the grace of God, my wifeand I had discretionary time
(18:15):
and resources to get him in aschool the Schenck School,
frankly here in the metropolitanAtlanta area.
And then they did the mostmiraculous turnaround in that
kid's life and to other kids,and thought was going to be a
lifelong sort of sentence to himwas now a superpower and they
(18:45):
gave him the keys to figure outhow to parse, you know, reading,
in a way that made a lot ofsense to the way that God sort
of made his brain, and it wastransformative for me to see how
people could develop thesekinds of forms to give release
(19:06):
to kids and release to a lot ofus who looked on, and to help us
to see what we could only seeas limitation these folks saw as
a way to give kids real freedom, real confidence.
And it's just, it'sextraordinary.
Now I'm not equating dyslexiawith what this girl's malady was
(19:28):
, but I'm simply saying if youask my kid, he'll tell you that
that was release, that was alife changing release for him
and if he didn't have that kindof stewardship of learning from
that school, I think his lifewould have felt a lot more like
(19:49):
a prison, like limits.
Melissa (19:53):
Bishop, you said something bold.
You said it's release that Godwants for us and for those we
hold captive.
And that was kind of like oh,who am I holding captive that I
need to free or release?
And gosh, that's big andcomplicated.
How do we do that work?
Bishop Wright (20:16):
I mean before we get to systems right, because
systems are just made up of lotsof individuals right Before we
get to systems, you know wemight want to interrogate, you
know, the grudges we hold, thebiases we hold, the
uninterrogated stuff that wehold, the un-nuanced stuff that
we hold about other folks.
(20:37):
We might want to interrogatethat because those are prisons
(20:58):
sort of value ourselves and thenvalue gifts and blessings that
are in our life.
We might look over to our leftand our right and might see that
our neighbor is also human anddeserving of healthcare and
pension plans and all the thingswe take for granted.
It blows my mind as a practicalmatter.
You know, the Episcopal Churchis one church in what we call
the Anglican Communion, and theAnglican Communion is 98.6
(21:19):
million Anglicans across theglobe and of course, the center
of the Anglican Communion isEngland, because, therefore, the
Anglican Church was the sort ofChurch of England.
Right, it was the church of thecolonizer and the colonies were
everywhere.
And so what's fascinating to meis that when we were all
(21:47):
together as bishops in Kent inEngland, we spent a lot of time
talking about bedrooms and humansexuality an important subject.
But it was not lost on me thatthe vast majority of the people
who are represented there alsodid not have health plans,
health care for themselves orpensions which means they were
my peer in the work but didn'thave the benefits that I had of
(22:17):
sort of removing lots of wealthfrom lots of these places
represented in the room that Iwas in and now sitting on piles
and piles and piles of gold wasnot.
We were not having theconversation about releasing
that to the people who needed itthe most.
And so this idea about systemreally we can make it macro, we
can make it micro, but itdoesn't change the truth of it,
(22:37):
which is that, you know, thevery thing that we're holding on
to oftentimes ends up being aprison for us and becomes the
very thing that we really needto release, to know freedom and
to begin to change the systemsthat we consciously, and maybe
even unconsciously, collude with.
Melissa (22:55):
Yeah, so I guess we just got to let go and let God.
Bishop Wright (22:59):
Well, you know, let go, yeah, let go, let God
and sing when you find yourselfin the prison.
Melissa (23:06):
Come on, bishop.
Thank you, and thank you forlistening to For People.
You can follow us on Instagramand Facebook at Bishop Rob
Wright, or by visiting www.
for people.
digital.
Please subscribe, leave areview and we'll be back with
(23:34):
you next week.
I want to know the God that can bring joy to a
dingy dungeon right?
I want to know that God that is.
The genesis of the Christianstory is that when we were
supposed to be crying we werepraising God.
Prisons look lots of differentways.
I mean, when I was a littlepoor kid, growing up in public
housing, it never dawned on methat you could live in a 6,000,
(00:23):
7,000 square foot home with allthe amenities and feel like you
were in prison.
Melissa (00:40):
Welcome to For People with Bishop Rob Wright.
I'm Melissa Rau and this is aconversation inspired by Fosr
Faith, a weekly devotion sentout every Friday.
You can find a link to thisweek's Four Faith and a link to
subscribe in the episode'sdescription.
Good morning, bishop.
Bishop Wright (00:55):
Morning morning.
Melissa (00:56):
You called this week's devotion Release and it's based
off of Acts, chapter 16, verses16 through 34, which I have to
say there's a lot going on inthis overall passage right.
Bishop Wright (01:10):
It's huge.
Melissa (01:11):
For sure.
So do you want to set thesetting for us?
Bishop Wright (01:16):
Well, yeah, I'll give it a try.
I mean, it's a lot to say and Iwould really recommend to folks
to just pick up your Bible oryour phone or your tablet,
whatever it is, and turn to thebook of Acts.
It's a book right after theGospels.
It's where we find Paul'smissionary journeys, et cetera.
(01:38):
It's how Paul then begins tosort of go then through the
known world, he and others, andsort of tell the story of Jesus
and demonstrate the power offaith in Jesus.
And so, by the time we get tothe 16th chapter of the story of
Jesus and demonstrate the powerof faith in Jesus.
And so, by the time we get tothe 16th chapter of the book of
Acts, we have this wonderfulencounter Right, paul and his
companion, silas now arewandering around trying to
trying to tell the story ofJesus, the risen Lord, and and
(02:01):
they come upon a little town,and and they come upon a woman,
a girl, apparently, not a littlegirl, but a girl, young girl,
who according to Scripture, wasdemon possessed.
But this demon possessed, theparticular nature of this
possession, was that this girlhad a gift Now she could tell
(02:22):
the future.
She was a fortune teller.
Right, the girl had a gift.
Now she could tell the future.
She was a fortune teller, right, and the people who owned her.
She was a slave girl and thepeople who owned her were making
a lot of money on this gift.
I mean, just imagine thatpeople were just lining up to
pay their nickels, right, to betold you know palm reading and
fortune telling and all that,and you know.
And so somehow this girl latcheson to Paul and Silas and starts
(02:46):
following you know them aroundand she says, interestingly
enough, hey, paul and Silas, Iknow that you're a slave of God,
and you know.
And she starts shouting at themand so on and so forth.
And then it says Paul, annoyedby the spectacle and annoyed by
her following them around, castsout her demon right Now, we got
(03:11):
a problem, right, because nowher newfound freedom, her
newfound release, has changed aneconomic model model for these
folks.
And now they're upset.
And what they don't say is, hey, we're all for freedom and
we're all for religion, as longas they don't impact our ability
(03:35):
to make a buck.
They don't say that.
What they say is, hey, theseChristians are causing a problem
, right, and so they're notexactly honest about the whole
thing.
Anyway, the story goes on.
Paul and Silas are thrown injail for all of this, so they
set her free and then becomecaptives themselves.
Melissa (03:58):
Right.
Well, I'm fascinated by thewhole thing.
Because this whole entirepassage it's problematic for me?
Well, because there's lots ofholes in it, like how do we know
certain things and how do weget to the end?
And you know, because we alsotalk about Paul and Silas being
jailed because of it.
Bishop Wright (04:19):
Yeah.
Melissa (04:19):
Right, and so they were able to make a case to the
court and say, hey, these peopleare saying things and it's
causing us to do things that areunlawful for us, which is wild,
because I'm pretty sure thatthe message of Jesus was all
about love and freedom, and soreally, what this is about is
(04:41):
liberty.
To me, and I'm struck I don'tknow if this is a human
condition I'm struck by the factthat sometimes it seems like
certain people who need to befree in order to be free or
experience liberty in their verylimited way of thinking, need
to oppress other people.
(05:04):
So we have to enslave and jailother people in order for us to
be or exercise the freedomwhatever that's really, that's,
that's, that's a conundrum to meBishop.
Bishop Wright (05:16):
Yeah, you got it, you nailed it.
That's the conundrum, rightthat that you know.
History tells us thatoftentimes the quest for freedom
by a certain group requires thebondage of another group.
Melissa (05:34):
Well, and here's the interesting thing.
So last week we had a greatconversation about speech, yeah,
and it doesn't escape me thatthis week we're talking about
release.
And it doesn't escape me thatthis week we're talking about
release.
And I went immediately to theFirst Amendment, our First
Amendment right, which isfreedom of religion, freedom of
speech, freedom to about theBill of.
(05:55):
Rights says, the civil rights ofnone shall be abridged on
account of religious belief orworship, nor shall any national
(06:18):
religion be established, norshall the full and equal rights
of conscience be in any manneror on any pretext infringed.
And so I feel like right now,in this time of Christian
nationalism, I think some folkswould rather be free by
subjugating or oppressing otherpeople's belief systems, which
is antithetical to even ourfounding documents of our
(06:41):
country.
I don't know what to do aboutit.
Bishop Wright (06:44):
Bishop documents of our country.
I don't know what to do aboutit, bishop.
Well, I mean, I think whatyou're doing, if you dig down
deep, is that you'rearticulating what we would call
sin, which is our ability towrite out ideals Right, and then
, because of commerce or becauseof other considerations
(07:04):
superiority complexes, ego,arrogance, the propensity for
abuse of those who are weaker weend up living at odds with the
ideals we espouse, right.
And so you know, it's like whatSt Paul said you know the good
I ought to do I don't do rightand the evil that I do do, and I
(07:30):
know I shouldn't do.
Well, there I am, and so it isthis ability to know better but
not to do better.
You might also say it's thisnotion of competing priorities.
Right, so it may have beennormalized to hold slaves in the
Roman colonies, uh, and it wasum.
And so these gentlemen, uh, whowere uh, basically using this
(07:54):
little girl and her possession,her malady um, thought, hey,
what's the problem?
This is normal for the society,but there is this thing, and,
even though Paul and Silas don'tcome to it in a sort of a
dignified and, you know, in sortof clear fashion, they back
(08:16):
their way into setting this girlfree, right?
I mean, paul just sets her freebecause he's annoyed by her
shouting out.
But, you know, they take us tothis intersection where we're
going to always stay in tensionwith God, because for us, you
know, freedom really only meansto be able to choose the
captivity of our own sort ofheart's desire, and religion, in
(08:40):
many ways, for many of us, isonly the spiritual resources to
help us maintain what is alreadybeneath what God would define
as freedom.
And so what we find ourselvesat again is this intersection,
is this pinch point, is thistension about?
You know, what are our actualpriorities?
(09:01):
Lived priorities, lived reality.
And yeah, do we all fall short?
Of course we do, but it's onething to sort of fall short and
then just sit there and you'reshort falling.
It's another thing to continuethe quest right.
And so our faith, the word ofGod, sacraments, all the
(09:21):
instruments of Christianmaturity in the church, the
resources for Christian maturityin church are supposed to be
moving us, along with our ownappetite to please God more than
we please the culture, thesociety, etc.
And occasionally those peoplecome along, and that's the whole
(09:42):
point of it.
And what do we do to thosepeople come along, and that's
the whole point of it.
And what do we do to thosepeople?
Well, when they come along andbring us a freedom that we
didn't dare to dream about andperhaps Devin never really
wanted, we castigate them,incarcerate them or worse, and
that's what human history saysright, when we really what we
really want is a hierarchy, andthe hierarchy goes commerce,
(10:08):
freedom and service to commerce,religion and service to
commerce, and that, franklyspeaking, has been the American
model from, you know, 1619.
And what we have done on ourbest days is begin to question
that On our worst days, we actlike that wasn't our reality.
Melissa (11:13):
right.
Is that not like a free thingto do, like they're practicing
their freedom because in Christthey are free?
Bishop Wright (11:19):
They believe that .
Melissa (11:21):
It causes an earthquake and the jailer was going to
kill himself.
Bishop Wright (11:26):
They stopped the suicide.
That's right yeah.
Melissa (11:29):
But they also could have.
They could have been free, butthey were already free, so they
didn't flee, but actually helpedthis person not kill himself.
Bishop Wright (11:39):
That's right.
Melissa (11:40):
Who then became a believer and I guess maybe this
is why I don't like the story,because there's so many holes.
It's like okay, well, that waseasy.
He became a believer prettyquickly.
Bishop Wright (11:49):
Yeah, well, I mean, well, just go slow here.
I mean, think about it, right,think about it.
I mean we saw this also in DrKing and all of those freedom
riders and civil rightsleadership.
You know, think about it.
Now You're being incarcerated,but you're going to jail, happy,
right, because the freedom isto be finally living life on
purpose, as I like to say, it isto have your mind and behind in
(12:11):
line.
Right, that's peace, that's joy, right it's.
You know, we find ourselves, youknow a lot of us, in perpetual
states of lament, right, andanxiety, and maybe even
depression.
And you know, that's one greatdefinition of depression.
Right, it's a very intenseanxiety about one thing or the
other, about just about thisominous cloud of anxiety.
(12:33):
But how do we begin to chipaway at that?
Well, we take steps toward thatthing.
We say our heart wants right,and this begins to cause joy in
us, which is counter cognitive.
So I can just imagine that thejailer is like wait a minute,
wait a minute, wait a minute.
You guys are free walkingaround, everything was cool.
All you had to do was colludewith a system of captivity and
(12:56):
everything would have been cool.
No, but you decided not to.
You ended up now behind ironbars.
You sound free even thoughyou're behind bars, right?
And all the guys who areparticipating in systems of
abuse, you know, maybe they lookfree but perhaps they don't.
I don't see as much joy in themas they pursue, you know,
(13:18):
commerce and abuse and serviceto commerce.
I see joy in you characters.
Now, that's got to confound theguy who, let's say, is a career
, a corrections officer.
That's got to, you know.
You know he's got shackles ontheir feet, they got shackles on
their hand and they're having aparty man, they're having a
good worship party, right.
So, yeah, I could see how thatmight prick up a person's
(13:38):
conscience and imagination andsay I want to know that God,
right, I want to know the Godthat can bring joy to a dingy
dungeon, right, I want to knowthat God.
And you know, the truth of thematter is that is the Genesis of
the Christian story, is is thatwhen we were supposed to be
crying, we were praising God,right?
(13:59):
And?
And uh, you know, I mean thatis the story of Easter, right,
the good Friday thing, okay, themovement's over, they lynched.
And uh, you know, I mean, thatis the story of Easter, right,
the good Friday thing.
Okay, the movement's over.
They lynched the um, theylynched the leader, but wait, oh
, this just in folks.
You know he's not dead, youknow life goes on, and
dramatically so, and you don'teven have to fear death.
Now, that's release, that'srelease, right, and so release,
(14:28):
that's release, right.
And so you know that's thisemancipatory way that God is in
the world, right.
And so you know prisons looklots of different ways.
I mean, when I was a littlepoor kid, growing up in public
housing, it never dawned on methat you could live in a 6,000,
dawned on me that you could livein a 6,000, 7,000 square foot
home with all the amenities andall the beauty and conveniences
(14:49):
and feel like you were in prison.
It never dawned on me.
And I have met people on deathrow and people who are
incarcerated and people who arein dire circumstances, and they
feel like to me as they talk andspeak to me as the most free
people I've ever met, and sothere's a great irony I think
(15:09):
this story brings us down to.
But it brings us down to thisother thing what's fundamental
about God is God wants to causerelease in all God's children,
right, and so not just some ofGod's children, and so, and God
seems to want a release that isnot predicated or doesn't need
(15:30):
the subjugation of others.
Now, that's proprietary,especially in human history,
because we've got a lot of onegroup up while they have their
foot on the neck of somebodyelse We've got a lot of that in
history Seems like that's theonly way we know how to be free,
right, whether it's the PaxRomana or the Pax Americana,
right, that's the only way weknow how to be free is to have
(15:52):
our foot on somebody's necks, isto have our foot on somebody's
necks.
But Jesus is offering thisfreedom of purpose, this freedom
of clarity, this freedom ofbelonging, this freedom of
knowing and being known to us,and it's beyond circumstances
(16:16):
and that is what blows the mind.
So, yeah, they end up rescuingthe jailer, like the dude who's
in charge of their incarcerationnow has become a beneficiary of
their wacky Christianity whichsays, oh, jail is just an
opportunity to sing.
Melissa (16:30):
Yeah, and and maybe, maybe that's another rub.
For me is like even going backto the slave girl.
You know they didn't ask her ifshe felt jailed, so I'm like,
oh, they blundered.
They didn't ask they just didit and it's like how do you know
that she didn't think it was agift?
You know, it was actuallycalled a gift by the way, yeah,
(16:52):
the gift of divination right.
Right, by the way, in thescripture.
Yeah, the gift of divination,right, right.
And so it's like, okay.
Well, that aside, I just wonderhow much jail or being bound is
an illusion.
Bishop Wright (17:02):
I think there are literal jails and I think there
are figurative jails, for sure,right, the only thing that
seems constant in that for me isthat an abiding, generative
life with God begins to help usto see the kind of jail cells
that we're in.
Some of us are in tragic jailcells of fear, you know, and
(17:26):
fear comes in lots of differentflavors.
You know we're in, you know,lots of different jails about.
We feel like we are assigned toa life which is flat and mean.
We you know so.
So you know, jail cells come ina lot of ways.
We see a lot of parts of ourlife as death sentences rather
(17:51):
than opportunities.
You know, my son, my son, ouryoungest son, is dyslexic and
struggled immensely.
His other brothers and sistersdidn't weren't dyslexic and
really struggled to find his owneducational sort of joy.
And by the grace of God, my wifeand I had discretionary time
(18:15):
and resources to get him in aschool the Schenck School,
frankly here in the metropolitanAtlanta area.
And then they did the mostmiraculous turnaround in that
kid's life and to other kids,and thought was going to be a
lifelong sort of sentence to himwas now a superpower and they
(18:45):
gave him the keys to figure outhow to parse, you know, reading,
in a way that made a lot ofsense to the way that God sort
of made his brain, and it wastransformative for me to see how
people could develop thesekinds of forms to give release
(19:06):
to kids and release to a lot ofus who looked on, and to help us
to see what we could only seeas limitation these folks saw as
a way to give kids real freedom, real confidence.
And it's just, it'sextraordinary.
Now I'm not equating dyslexiawith what this girl's malady was
(19:28):
, but I'm simply saying if youask my kid, he'll tell you that
that was release, that was alife changing release for him
and if he didn't have that kindof stewardship of learning from
that school, I think his lifewould have felt a lot more like
(19:49):
a prison, like limits.
Melissa (19:53):
Bishop, you said something bold.
You said it's release that Godwants for us and for those we
hold captive.
And that was kind of like oh,who am I holding captive that I
need to free or release?
And gosh, that's big andcomplicated.
How do we do that work?
Bishop Wright (20:16):
I mean before we get to systems right, because
systems are just made up of lotsof individuals right Before we
get to systems, you know wemight want to interrogate, you
know, the grudges we hold, thebiases we hold, the
uninterrogated stuff that wehold, the un-nuanced stuff that
we hold about other folks.
(20:37):
We might want to interrogatethat because those are prisons
(20:58):
sort of value ourselves and thenvalue gifts and blessings that
are in our life.
We might look over to our leftand our right and might see that
our neighbor is also human anddeserving of healthcare and
pension plans and all the thingswe take for granted.
It blows my mind as a practicalmatter.
You know, the Episcopal Churchis one church in what we call
the Anglican Communion, and theAnglican Communion is 98.6
(21:19):
million Anglicans across theglobe and of course, the center
of the Anglican Communion isEngland, because, therefore, the
Anglican Church was the sort ofChurch of England.
Right, it was the church of thecolonizer and the colonies were
everywhere.
And so what's fascinating to meis that when we were all
(21:47):
together as bishops in Kent inEngland, we spent a lot of time
talking about bedrooms and humansexuality an important subject.
But it was not lost on me thatthe vast majority of the people
who are represented there alsodid not have health plans,
health care for themselves orpensions which means they were
my peer in the work but didn'thave the benefits that I had of
(22:17):
sort of removing lots of wealthfrom lots of these places
represented in the room that Iwas in and now sitting on piles
and piles and piles of gold wasnot.
We were not having theconversation about releasing
that to the people who needed itthe most.
And so this idea about systemreally we can make it macro, we
can make it micro, but itdoesn't change the truth of it,
(22:37):
which is that, you know, thevery thing that we're holding on
to oftentimes ends up being aprison for us and becomes the
very thing that we really needto release, to know freedom and
to begin to change the systemsthat we consciously, and maybe
even unconsciously, collude with.
Melissa (22:55):
Yeah, so I guess we just got to let go and let God.
Bishop Wright (22:59):
Well, you know, let go, yeah, let go, let God
and sing when you find yourselfin the prison.
Melissa (23:06):
Come on, bishop.
Thank you, and thank you forlistening to For People.
You can follow us on Instagramand Facebook at Bishop Rob
Wright, or by visiting www.
for people.
digital.
Please subscribe, leave areview and we'll be back with
(23:34):
you next week.
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