May 23, 2025 • 19 mins
Words create worlds. From Genesis where God speaks creation into being, to Jesus asking a paralyzed man, "Do you want to be made well?", speech carries the power to transform reality. But what happens when certain topics become unspeakable?
In this episode, Melissa and Bishop Wright have a conversation that explores how modern society increasingly avoids difficult conversations. Using Jesus' healing story, Bishop Wright reveals how bringing things into speech opens pathways to healing and resurrection. They also discuss more recent examples including the evolution of Malcolm X's speech as his heart expanded, the way Muhammad Ali voiced what many thought but dared not say about Vietnam, and how Pope Francis's humble question "Who am I to judge?" transformed Catholic discourse. At its core lies a powerful truth: authentic speech flows from the heart's abundance. Listen in for the full conversation.
Read For Faith, the companion devotional.
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Episode Transcript
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Bishop Wright (00:00):
What's falling out of speech is our ability to
demonstrate our love for ourdemocracy by asking critical,
catalytic questions about thedirection we find ourselves in.
You don't have to be a partisan, but love, I believe, demands
speech.
Maybe the journey with God forsome of us is then to walk away
from those ways and to adoptdifferent ways which speak life
(00:24):
over people and which speak upfor those who don't have a voice
.
Melissa (00:40):
Welcome to For People with Bishop Rob Wright.
I'm Melissa Rau, your host, andthis is a conversation inspired
by For Faith, a weekly devotionsent out every Friday.
You can find a link to thisweek's For Faith and a link to
subscribe in the episode'sdescription.
Hey, hey, Bishop.
Bishop Wright (00:56):
Hey Melissa.
Melissa (00:58):
So this week's devotion you called speech, based off or
inspired by Proverbs 18, verse21, and John chapter five,
verses one through nine.
It's really about the story ofthe man at the healing, the
healing fountain, um, who wasn'table to be healed.
Jesus comes upon him and saysdo you want to be well, right,
(01:21):
all right.
So you have something to sayabout speech and language, about
what that means.
So you want to kind of packagethat up for us.
Bishop Wright (01:30):
Well, I'll give it a shot.
So the thing about reading theBible over many, many years is
that while the stories don'tchange, you change and you begin
to see these same stories,familiar stories, from different
vantage points.
And so I've always beenfascinated by this story, john,
the fifth chapter.
(01:50):
You know, this guy's beenlaying infirmed, paralyzed the
Bible says laying by pools ofwater for 38 years.
He might be the most seniorinfirmed person there at the
pools.
He watches other people gethealing.
The angel comes, troubles thewater, other people gets healing
.
And you know, on the faithfulday, jesus finds him by the
(02:14):
pools, walks up to him andbrings something into speech.
And so, you know, I've alwaysbeen dazzled by the miracles.
A lot of people are.
You can get really fixated onthe, on the miracles, but I I
sort of want to deconstruct andI want to look at the formula Um
.
And so you know, while we'renot Jesus, um, it does seem like
(02:38):
um, bringing things intoreality through speech has
healing properties.
And so Jesus simply asked him aquestion Do you want to be made
well In other translations,what do you want?
Important questions.
And then Jesus says at the endof the story rise, take up your
mat and walk, and so none ofthis happens without Jesus
(03:02):
bringing it alive in words, andI'm thinking a lot about that.
I'm thinking a lot aboutfreedom of speech these days in
our own country.
I'm thinking a lot about thesuppression of different kinds
of speech.
I'm thinking about what isunspeakable these days, and so,
(03:27):
yeah, that's how I get there.
Melissa (03:28):
All right.
Well, I'm really alsofascinated by the proverb that
says the tongue has the power oflife and death, and those who
love it will eat its fruit.
Bishop Wright (03:37):
Yeah.
Melissa (03:38):
It's like that second part, bishop, where it's like,
okay, yes, and power of life anddeath.
Like, how often do we usespeech to tear down rather than
build up?
Bishop Wright (03:49):
Too many times, too much, too much.
And also we tear down things, Iguess sort of passively, gently
, by not allowing in ourimagination there and then later
our speech for newpossibilities.
So we stay in ruts because wecan't imagine something more.
So, you know, imagination andspeech go together.
(04:12):
Some people imagine things butit never makes their way to
speech.
Some people have no imaginationand they're talking all the
time.
So it seems like the mostgenerative combination is to
sort of sit down, you know, withscripture, with our quietness,
with God, and then begin to takea look at God's imagination for
(04:33):
situations.
So this guy again, had beeninfirm for 38 years.
It stuck, and Jesus asked himwhat he wants and he began to
tell him about all the thingsthat he can't control.
Johnson, he began to tell himabout all the things that he
can't control, and you know, soyou know you might say he was
really trapped in shoulda,woulda, coulda, right, as we
(04:53):
like to say, I should have, Iwould have, I could have.
And Jesus, you know, cuts rightto the bone here and says, yeah
, but what do you want, right?
And so one, as I've said aboutthis text, and I love this text,
as I've said about this textpreviously, you know, was the
infirmity in the man's outlookor was it in his limbs, right?
Either way, somehow Jesus'smiracle rides in on Jesus's
(05:19):
breath, his bringing things tospeech.
You know, maybe people thoughtpolitely not to bring it up to
this gentleman, right?
I mean, we do that sometimes.
Or maybe people were afraid notto bring it up.
And I'm not saying we ought tobe rude and run rush out over
times when silence is betterthan a lot of talking, and I
(05:39):
think we should proceed gentlyand sensitively, contextually,
all of that.
But at the same time, you know,at least as a person of faith,
or one who endeavors to be aperson of faith, there are
things we have to bring tospeech.
You know, there was a study notlong ago about how the word
poverty has fallen out of lotsof Christian sermonizing and
(06:02):
Christian teaching.
And so what are we not saying?
A lot is not being said rightnow about the Palestinians, that
there's a full scale genocidehappening and that we have
decided to capitulate to thefact that we are being told not
to speak up on behalf of apeople, and so that is falling
(06:28):
by the wayside when we need totalk about safety and security
for the state of Israel, andsafety and security and human
dignity also for the Palestinianpeople.
But that's not being born intospeech, it's becoming
unspeakable.
And when things becomeunspeakable things fall into
(06:48):
indifference and neglect, andthen that's a bad road, et
cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
I think what's falling out ofspeech is our ability to
demonstrate our love for ourdemocracy by asking critical,
catalytic questions about thedirection we find ourselves in.
You don't have to beantagonistic, you don't have to
(07:09):
be a partisan, but love, Ibelieve, demands speech.
You know we are told in creationthat God spoke the world into
being.
Another translation of that isGod sung the world into being.
There is this thing aboutbreath being applied that
(07:30):
creates wholeness.
Now, of course we know, andyou've already articulated, that
oftentimes with our breath andour mouth and our words, we
demoralize, we diminish and weinjure.
But what, if you know?
Maybe the journey with God forsome of us is then to walk away
(07:50):
from those ways and to adoptdifferent ways which speak life
over people, which speak healingover people, even our own
selves, and which speak up forthose who don't have a voice.
Melissa (08:29):
You know, I'm also reminded that Jesus asked a
question, and I know you lovequestions, and, bishop, it's not
so much, sometimes, what we say, but how we say it matters,
right, and, and I'm also I lovethat you call out the fact that
Jesus has a formula to ourdazzling miracles, that we are
(08:51):
invited and even, I'd say,expected.
Jesus says that we will dothese and more like when we're
talking about miracles, right,so like, we have the power, and
what is the power if we followthe formula?
Jesus asked questions, though,and I'm curious what your
thoughts are about how we mightapproach speaking truth to power
or standing up, maybe deployingquestions rather than attack.
Bishop Wright (09:18):
You know, I think there's a formula, you know,
behind the formula, right?
I mean, you know how this thingjust keeps zooming out, right?
And so I think one of thethings that I'm aware of is is
that you know another Bibleverse right Out of the abundance
of the heart, doth the mouthspeak right.
And so I think there's an auditthat has to happen for us
(09:44):
what's in our heart?
Because our mouth can't help tosort of give way to what's
really dominating our heart, andthat's why political
correctness is a big joke and alie, because you can have a
politically correct mouth buthave a politically incorrect
heart, and so we can be nice andtherefore we're not authentic.
(10:04):
What is a better work and Jesusgave us this work is to pray
for those folks that youstruggle to love.
It is to be about realizingthat if we abide in God, then we
are connected and overlap withone another.
Therefore, you are my sibling,and so, on our way to speaking,
(10:25):
you know we have to stop by thedeep well of what's in my heart.
You know, because nobody needsmore hacks, and you know,
arrogance, hacks and arrogancemasquerading as spirituality
(10:46):
Nobody needs more of that.
I mean.
Again, one of my great examples,of course, is the way in which
Desmond Tutu talked to and aboutthe people who were driving
apartheid.
It never dawned on him that,for all of their behavior, that
they were not his siblings.
And so there's a spiritualreality here which is more than
(11:08):
the technique of speaking, andthe spiritual reality is to get
to that place where we realizethat, ultimately, we are
absolutely connected.
There is no separation rightand there is no superiority.
We're in this together, whetherwe like it or not.
Dr King said it again and again, and that was, you know, the
(11:29):
day we're celebrating this week,the 100th birthday of Malcolm X
.
And it was interesting to watchMalcolm X, if you, if you paid
any attention to him.
It was interesting for him, forus, to watch his journey to
this reality.
Reality, you know, he startedoff in one place, but then had
the audacity to grow up rightbefore our very eyes and finally
(11:50):
came to the place where herealized that we were all
ultimately in this thingtogether and that that was the
best expression of Islam for himand that that put him beside
now people previously he couldnot work with and could only be
critical of, and so there's ajourney of the heart that ends
up in the mouth.
(12:10):
One wonders what tone Jesusstruck to speak to the man, by
the pools of 38 years that thisman maybe heard.
Maybe heard it not as critical,maybe heard it as deeply caring
.
You know, there was something,it seems, in the way that Jesus
spoke to him that was mobilizing.
(12:31):
I'm not condescending, notpatronizing, but something.
And so I think that or at leastI'm only able to thread those
needles when I'm payingattention to where my heart is
and how I actually feel, whenI'm paying attention to where my
heart is and how I actuallyfeel.
If 70% of communication isnonverbal, then we really need
to get to the heart, which meanspeople know what is BS and what
(12:57):
is not BS even before we openup our mouths.
Yeah, daunting thought.
Melissa (13:12):
Again, I feel like the exchange is one of power and to
me this passage reeks of dignityand that Jesus saw the dignity
in this man and perhaps madethis man, or helped this man,
believe in himself, and his ownability Like I don't know.
I don't I'm, we weren't there.
Bishop Wright (13:27):
You know, I think I think one of the things that
you know, you, you again, you goover and over all these sort of
ways in which Jesus interactswith people and Jesus helps
people to see their own agency.
I mean, that's that'sinteresting dynamic, isn't it?
We sort of think that faith isreally kind of outsourcing our
lives to God for some sort ofmagic, you know, instant popcorn
(13:47):
sort of thing, when what we'rereally being invited to is a
deeper life down into our ownagency, right, and so God meets
us there.
So, you know, one of theformulas I like to use is,
before I start begging God foranything, have I done everything
that I can do with all thegifts, benefits, blessings,
(14:11):
intellect, reason, memory, skillthat God has given me?
That, I think, is theintersection, because that
celebrates the fact that I amfearfully and wonderfully made
as you are.
That's God has made usfearfully and wonderfully made.
Are that's God has made usfearfully and wonderfully made.
And I know that I will happenupon situations and
circumstances where even all ofthat is not enough, and so it
(14:33):
just seems like it really doesend up as a partnership.
Jesus calls people down into adeep partnership with God, and
not this magic, magic sort ofnonsensical version of faith.
Melissa (14:46):
You know you were talking about Malcolm X too, and
it's like, yeah, I wonder ifthat's when he realized his own
power to go from the arc ofanger and rise up and, by the
way, I'm not saying any of thisis bad and yet had an arc to to
(15:06):
really be more about grace andabout empowerment of others, not
as angry, at least in thebeginning of I'm going to call
it ministry, because it wasimportant in the life of our
country.
I don't know Any thoughts onthat.
Bishop Wright (15:22):
Well, I mean, I mean he's, he's really a
fascinating character, and Imean it started with his ability
to see his own dignity, right.
I mean, I think his faithhelped him to see who he was and
to begin to define himself asGod defined him, rather than
bouncing back and forth from theways in which he, as an
African-American, have beendescribed in literature, in
(15:46):
politics, you know, in religion,et cetera, et cetera.
So so, to be able to reclaimone's dignity is, I think, in
some ways on the way to beingable to see the dignity of other
people Right.
And so then we just watch hisjourney really unfold.
But you know, his greatcontribution was being able to
(16:07):
speak the unspeakable right, andthen, later on, his great
friend, you know, then CassiusClay.
Later, our beloved Muhammad Alibegins to bring things into
reality through speech which,again, previously were not able
to be said.
Like I love my country, and youknow, no Vietnamese person has
(16:32):
ever denied me a seat on the bus, denied me a cup of coffee at a
lunch counter, or called me aracial slur.
So therefore, why am I makingwar against him?
Which is what a lot of peoplethought?
But people didn't bring thatinto speech.
It was unspeakable or reservedonly for quiet spaces and
whispered tones.
(16:52):
And so we thank God for thesepeople who come along and say
things are possible.
I mean, you know, again, sisterHelen Prejean, someone who has
spoken on this podcast before,brought into speech the fact
that if we are pro-life then wecannot be for capital punishment
(17:13):
, and she changed the wholeCatholic Church's teaching and
now they had to amend theirteaching and included pro-life
to include being againstteaching, against capital
punishment.
So, you know, heretofore orprevious to that, you know again
(17:34):
, people might have had that intheir mind, some people may be
afraid to say it, et cetera, etcetera.
And now they're.
You know, look what Francis did.
Pope Francis of blessed memorynow, I mean, he is the Pope with
spiritual authority, for, youknow, a billion, 1.1 billion
Catholics in the world, early onin his ministry, was asked
(17:55):
questions about gay and lesbianpersons and said, you know,
added this wonderful question,whom I had judged born out of
humility, and so he broughthumility to speech about
(18:17):
something that was really,really difficult.
Melissa (18:20):
So final question how does speech or speaking kind of
go along with the Easter arc?
Bishop Wright (18:32):
Yeah, right, well , I mean, it's about
resurrection, right, I mean.
So if speech has got toparticipate in some degree in
resurrection, that's what'shappening in this story life, a
resurrected sense of himself,maybe even a resurrected sense
of who God is, you know in thisEaster story about.
I was stuck, tragically stuck,for nearly four decades.
(18:55):
I mean it's just mind bogglingto think of.
And somehow I got a new life,life changed for me.
And we find Jesus at the bottomof that speaking, speaking over
him, wellness, healing,possibility.
Melissa (19:11):
I love it.
So, friends, use your words anduse them well, bishop, thank
you, and thank you for listeningto For People.
You can follow us on Instagramand Facebook at Bishop Rob
Wright, or by visiting www.
for people.
digital.
Please subscribe, leave areview and we'll be back with
(19:32):
you next week.
What's falling out of speech is our ability to
demonstrate our love for ourdemocracy by asking critical,
catalytic questions about thedirection we find ourselves in.
You don't have to be a partisan, but love, I believe, demands
speech.
Maybe the journey with God forsome of us is then to walk away
from those ways and to adoptdifferent ways which speak life
(00:24):
over people and which speak upfor those who don't have a voice
.
Melissa (00:40):
Welcome to For People with Bishop Rob Wright.
I'm Melissa Rau, your host, andthis is a conversation inspired
by For Faith, a weekly devotionsent out every Friday.
You can find a link to thisweek's For Faith and a link to
subscribe in the episode'sdescription.
Hey, hey, Bishop.
Bishop Wright (00:56):
Hey Melissa.
Melissa (00:58):
So this week's devotion you called speech, based off or
inspired by Proverbs 18, verse21, and John chapter five,
verses one through nine.
It's really about the story ofthe man at the healing, the
healing fountain, um, who wasn'table to be healed.
Jesus comes upon him and saysdo you want to be well, right,
(01:21):
all right.
So you have something to sayabout speech and language, about
what that means.
So you want to kind of packagethat up for us.
Bishop Wright (01:30):
Well, I'll give it a shot.
So the thing about reading theBible over many, many years is
that while the stories don'tchange, you change and you begin
to see these same stories,familiar stories, from different
vantage points.
And so I've always beenfascinated by this story, john,
the fifth chapter.
(01:50):
You know, this guy's beenlaying infirmed, paralyzed the
Bible says laying by pools ofwater for 38 years.
He might be the most seniorinfirmed person there at the
pools.
He watches other people gethealing.
The angel comes, troubles thewater, other people gets healing
.
And you know, on the faithfulday, jesus finds him by the
(02:14):
pools, walks up to him andbrings something into speech.
And so, you know, I've alwaysbeen dazzled by the miracles.
A lot of people are.
You can get really fixated onthe, on the miracles, but I I
sort of want to deconstruct andI want to look at the formula Um
.
And so you know, while we'renot Jesus, um, it does seem like
(02:38):
um, bringing things intoreality through speech has
healing properties.
And so Jesus simply asked him aquestion Do you want to be made
well In other translations,what do you want?
Important questions.
And then Jesus says at the endof the story rise, take up your
mat and walk, and so none ofthis happens without Jesus
(03:02):
bringing it alive in words, andI'm thinking a lot about that.
I'm thinking a lot aboutfreedom of speech these days in
our own country.
I'm thinking a lot about thesuppression of different kinds
of speech.
I'm thinking about what isunspeakable these days, and so,
(03:27):
yeah, that's how I get there.
Melissa (03:28):
All right.
Well, I'm really alsofascinated by the proverb that
says the tongue has the power oflife and death, and those who
love it will eat its fruit.
Bishop Wright (03:37):
Yeah.
Melissa (03:38):
It's like that second part, bishop, where it's like,
okay, yes, and power of life anddeath.
Like, how often do we usespeech to tear down rather than
build up?
Bishop Wright (03:49):
Too many times, too much, too much.
And also we tear down things, Iguess sort of passively, gently
, by not allowing in ourimagination there and then later
our speech for newpossibilities.
So we stay in ruts because wecan't imagine something more.
So, you know, imagination andspeech go together.
(04:12):
Some people imagine things butit never makes their way to
speech.
Some people have no imaginationand they're talking all the
time.
So it seems like the mostgenerative combination is to
sort of sit down, you know, withscripture, with our quietness,
with God, and then begin to takea look at God's imagination for
(04:33):
situations.
So this guy again, had beeninfirm for 38 years.
It stuck, and Jesus asked himwhat he wants and he began to
tell him about all the thingsthat he can't control.
Johnson, he began to tell himabout all the things that he
can't control, and you know, soyou know you might say he was
really trapped in shoulda,woulda, coulda, right, as we
(04:53):
like to say, I should have, Iwould have, I could have.
And Jesus, you know, cuts rightto the bone here and says, yeah
, but what do you want, right?
And so one, as I've said aboutthis text, and I love this text,
as I've said about this textpreviously, you know, was the
infirmity in the man's outlookor was it in his limbs, right?
Either way, somehow Jesus'smiracle rides in on Jesus's
(05:19):
breath, his bringing things tospeech.
You know, maybe people thoughtpolitely not to bring it up to
this gentleman, right?
I mean, we do that sometimes.
Or maybe people were afraid notto bring it up.
And I'm not saying we ought tobe rude and run rush out over
times when silence is betterthan a lot of talking, and I
(05:39):
think we should proceed gentlyand sensitively, contextually,
all of that.
But at the same time, you know,at least as a person of faith,
or one who endeavors to be aperson of faith, there are
things we have to bring tospeech.
You know, there was a study notlong ago about how the word
poverty has fallen out of lotsof Christian sermonizing and
(06:02):
Christian teaching.
And so what are we not saying?
A lot is not being said rightnow about the Palestinians, that
there's a full scale genocidehappening and that we have
decided to capitulate to thefact that we are being told not
to speak up on behalf of apeople, and so that is falling
(06:28):
by the wayside when we need totalk about safety and security
for the state of Israel, andsafety and security and human
dignity also for the Palestinianpeople.
But that's not being born intospeech, it's becoming
unspeakable.
And when things becomeunspeakable things fall into
(06:48):
indifference and neglect, andthen that's a bad road, et
cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
I think what's falling out ofspeech is our ability to
demonstrate our love for ourdemocracy by asking critical,
catalytic questions about thedirection we find ourselves in.
You don't have to beantagonistic, you don't have to
(07:09):
be a partisan, but love, Ibelieve, demands speech.
You know we are told in creationthat God spoke the world into
being.
Another translation of that isGod sung the world into being.
There is this thing aboutbreath being applied that
(07:30):
creates wholeness.
Now, of course we know, andyou've already articulated, that
oftentimes with our breath andour mouth and our words, we
demoralize, we diminish and weinjure.
But what, if you know?
Maybe the journey with God forsome of us is then to walk away
(07:50):
from those ways and to adoptdifferent ways which speak life
over people, which speak healingover people, even our own
selves, and which speak up forthose who don't have a voice.
Melissa (08:29):
You know, I'm also reminded that Jesus asked a
question, and I know you lovequestions, and, bishop, it's not
so much, sometimes, what we say, but how we say it matters,
right, and, and I'm also I lovethat you call out the fact that
Jesus has a formula to ourdazzling miracles, that we are
(08:51):
invited and even, I'd say,expected.
Jesus says that we will dothese and more like when we're
talking about miracles, right,so like, we have the power, and
what is the power if we followthe formula?
Jesus asked questions, though,and I'm curious what your
thoughts are about how we mightapproach speaking truth to power
or standing up, maybe deployingquestions rather than attack.
Bishop Wright (09:18):
You know, I think there's a formula, you know,
behind the formula, right?
I mean, you know how this thingjust keeps zooming out, right?
And so I think one of thethings that I'm aware of is is
that you know another Bibleverse right Out of the abundance
of the heart, doth the mouthspeak right.
And so I think there's an auditthat has to happen for us
(09:44):
what's in our heart?
Because our mouth can't help tosort of give way to what's
really dominating our heart, andthat's why political
correctness is a big joke and alie, because you can have a
politically correct mouth buthave a politically incorrect
heart, and so we can be nice andtherefore we're not authentic.
(10:04):
What is a better work and Jesusgave us this work is to pray
for those folks that youstruggle to love.
It is to be about realizingthat if we abide in God, then we
are connected and overlap withone another.
Therefore, you are my sibling,and so, on our way to speaking,
(10:25):
you know we have to stop by thedeep well of what's in my heart.
You know, because nobody needsmore hacks, and you know,
arrogance, hacks and arrogancemasquerading as spirituality
(10:46):
Nobody needs more of that.
I mean.
Again, one of my great examples,of course, is the way in which
Desmond Tutu talked to and aboutthe people who were driving
apartheid.
It never dawned on him that,for all of their behavior, that
they were not his siblings.
And so there's a spiritualreality here which is more than
(11:08):
the technique of speaking, andthe spiritual reality is to get
to that place where we realizethat, ultimately, we are
absolutely connected.
There is no separation rightand there is no superiority.
We're in this together, whetherwe like it or not.
Dr King said it again and again, and that was, you know, the
(11:29):
day we're celebrating this week,the 100th birthday of Malcolm X
.
And it was interesting to watchMalcolm X, if you, if you paid
any attention to him.
It was interesting for him, forus, to watch his journey to
this reality.
Reality, you know, he startedoff in one place, but then had
the audacity to grow up rightbefore our very eyes and finally
(11:50):
came to the place where herealized that we were all
ultimately in this thingtogether and that that was the
best expression of Islam for himand that that put him beside
now people previously he couldnot work with and could only be
critical of, and so there's ajourney of the heart that ends
up in the mouth.
(12:10):
One wonders what tone Jesusstruck to speak to the man, by
the pools of 38 years that thisman maybe heard.
Maybe heard it not as critical,maybe heard it as deeply caring
.
You know, there was something,it seems, in the way that Jesus
spoke to him that was mobilizing.
(12:31):
I'm not condescending, notpatronizing, but something.
And so I think that or at leastI'm only able to thread those
needles when I'm payingattention to where my heart is
and how I actually feel, whenI'm paying attention to where my
heart is and how I actuallyfeel.
If 70% of communication isnonverbal, then we really need
to get to the heart, which meanspeople know what is BS and what
(12:57):
is not BS even before we openup our mouths.
Yeah, daunting thought.
Melissa (13:12):
Again, I feel like the exchange is one of power and to
me this passage reeks of dignityand that Jesus saw the dignity
in this man and perhaps madethis man, or helped this man,
believe in himself, and his ownability Like I don't know.
I don't I'm, we weren't there.
Bishop Wright (13:27):
You know, I think I think one of the things that
you know, you, you again, you goover and over all these sort of
ways in which Jesus interactswith people and Jesus helps
people to see their own agency.
I mean, that's that'sinteresting dynamic, isn't it?
We sort of think that faith isreally kind of outsourcing our
lives to God for some sort ofmagic, you know, instant popcorn
(13:47):
sort of thing, when what we'rereally being invited to is a
deeper life down into our ownagency, right, and so God meets
us there.
So, you know, one of theformulas I like to use is,
before I start begging God foranything, have I done everything
that I can do with all thegifts, benefits, blessings,
(14:11):
intellect, reason, memory, skillthat God has given me?
That, I think, is theintersection, because that
celebrates the fact that I amfearfully and wonderfully made
as you are.
That's God has made usfearfully and wonderfully made.
Are that's God has made usfearfully and wonderfully made.
And I know that I will happenupon situations and
circumstances where even all ofthat is not enough, and so it
(14:33):
just seems like it really doesend up as a partnership.
Jesus calls people down into adeep partnership with God, and
not this magic, magic sort ofnonsensical version of faith.
Melissa (14:46):
You know you were talking about Malcolm X too, and
it's like, yeah, I wonder ifthat's when he realized his own
power to go from the arc ofanger and rise up and, by the
way, I'm not saying any of thisis bad and yet had an arc to to
(15:06):
really be more about grace andabout empowerment of others, not
as angry, at least in thebeginning of I'm going to call
it ministry, because it wasimportant in the life of our
country.
I don't know Any thoughts onthat.
Bishop Wright (15:22):
Well, I mean, I mean he's, he's really a
fascinating character, and Imean it started with his ability
to see his own dignity, right.
I mean, I think his faithhelped him to see who he was and
to begin to define himself asGod defined him, rather than
bouncing back and forth from theways in which he, as an
African-American, have beendescribed in literature, in
(15:46):
politics, you know, in religion,et cetera, et cetera.
So so, to be able to reclaimone's dignity is, I think, in
some ways on the way to beingable to see the dignity of other
people Right.
And so then we just watch hisjourney really unfold.
But you know, his greatcontribution was being able to
(16:07):
speak the unspeakable right, andthen, later on, his great
friend, you know, then CassiusClay.
Later, our beloved Muhammad Alibegins to bring things into
reality through speech which,again, previously were not able
to be said.
Like I love my country, and youknow, no Vietnamese person has
(16:32):
ever denied me a seat on the bus, denied me a cup of coffee at a
lunch counter, or called me aracial slur.
So therefore, why am I makingwar against him?
Which is what a lot of peoplethought?
But people didn't bring thatinto speech.
It was unspeakable or reservedonly for quiet spaces and
whispered tones.
(16:52):
And so we thank God for thesepeople who come along and say
things are possible.
I mean, you know, again, sisterHelen Prejean, someone who has
spoken on this podcast before,brought into speech the fact
that if we are pro-life then wecannot be for capital punishment
(17:13):
, and she changed the wholeCatholic Church's teaching and
now they had to amend theirteaching and included pro-life
to include being againstteaching, against capital
punishment.
So, you know, heretofore orprevious to that, you know again
(17:34):
, people might have had that intheir mind, some people may be
afraid to say it, et cetera, etcetera.
And now they're.
You know, look what Francis did.
Pope Francis of blessed memorynow, I mean, he is the Pope with
spiritual authority, for, youknow, a billion, 1.1 billion
Catholics in the world, early onin his ministry, was asked
(17:55):
questions about gay and lesbianpersons and said, you know,
added this wonderful question,whom I had judged born out of
humility, and so he broughthumility to speech about
(18:17):
something that was really,really difficult.
Melissa (18:20):
So final question how does speech or speaking kind of
go along with the Easter arc?
Bishop Wright (18:32):
Yeah, right, well , I mean, it's about
resurrection, right, I mean.
So if speech has got toparticipate in some degree in
resurrection, that's what'shappening in this story life, a
resurrected sense of himself,maybe even a resurrected sense
of who God is, you know in thisEaster story about.
I was stuck, tragically stuck,for nearly four decades.
(18:55):
I mean it's just mind bogglingto think of.
And somehow I got a new life,life changed for me.
And we find Jesus at the bottomof that speaking, speaking over
him, wellness, healing,possibility.
Melissa (19:11):
I love it.
So, friends, use your words anduse them well, bishop, thank
you, and thank you for listeningto For People.
You can follow us on Instagramand Facebook at Bishop Rob
Wright, or by visiting www.
for people.
digital.
Please subscribe, leave areview and we'll be back with
(19:32):
you next week.
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