May 9, 2025 • 20 mins
Being in relationship with God is accompanied by suspense. Even in the bible, John 10: 22-30, Jesus is asked "Are you the Messiah? How long will you keep us in suspense?" Faith in God meets in the tensions of certainty and the suspense of the unknown.
In this episode, Melissa and Bishop Wright have a conversation about the suspense that accompanies faith. Bishop Wright offers a perspective that transforms how we view life's uncertainties. "The suspense is not if there's God, the suspense is how will God choose to be God and on what timeline." This distinction invites us to shift from demanding answers to embracing relationship. Listen in for the full conversation.
Read For Faith, the companion devotional.
We have developed a survey to better understand how Bishop Wright's For People Podcast can continue to inspire, engage, and serve our listeners. Please take 5 minutes to complete the survey here.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bishop Wright (00:00):
Suspense is part of life with God, but the good
news is, you know, the suspenseis not if there's God.
The suspense is how will Godchoose to be God and on what
timeline?
That intersection sends us backto the way that God has already
been God and it sends us backto Scripture to meet men and
women in the 66 books of theBible who trusted God or
(00:23):
attempted to trust God in theirown time, which is really the
essence of faith.
Melissa (00:40):
Welcome to For People with Bishop Rob Wright.
I'm Melissa Rau and this is aconversation inspired by For
Faith, a weekly devotion sentout every Friday.
You can find a link to thisweek's Four Faith and a link to
subscribe in the episode'sdescription.
Now, friends, last week, lastepisode, for our 250th
celebration, we announced thefact that we've developed a
(01:02):
survey, and we would so welcomeyour engagement with that.
You can find a link to thesurvey right in this episode's
description and, you know,please take some time, not long,
it's maybe two minutes of it,but it'll give us some great
feedback for us to consider aswe move forward for our next 250
episodes.
How's it going, bishop?
Bishop Wright (01:23):
Fine Thanks.
Let me just echo that, Melissa,and just ask you please fill
out the survey so that we canknow what we're doing well and
what we could do better.
We'd really appreciate it.
So far, we've had a goodresponse from people, but need
to get some more responses so wecan make some really good
decisions going forward.
So thank you for listening for250 episodes and we're looking
(01:47):
forward to 250 more.
Melissa (01:48):
All right.
So, Bishop, this week's yourDevotion you called Suspense and
it's based off of John 10, 22to 30, really about what's going
on, what's happening here.
How might we be with God, howmight God be in the future,
(02:09):
really not knowing what'shappening post-resurrection?
Bishop Wright (02:13):
Right?
Well, that sort of takes usright to the center of it,
doesn't it?
I mean, we love suspense interms of our entertainment,
don't we?
I mean, you know we watchseries on our streaming services
.
You know some people arewatching White Lotus and all
kinds of other things, andthere's cliffhangers, and you
know we have to sort of hold onand chew our nails until the
(02:34):
next installment.
And so, you know, I got to theword suspense and usually when I
write these things, I use aword from the actual lesson.
And so, you know, folks came toJesus and said how long will
you keep us in suspense?
You know, are you the Messiahor not, right?
(02:55):
And so I mean, I guess you know.
And then I just use you know aword as a departure point.
And you know the other way Iget to it too is that when I see
that word in the text and thenI think about, you know, the
other way I get to it too is isthat when I see that word in the
text and then I think about youknow the innumerable
conversations that I've had withpeople.
You know good folks, you knowall over the world literally,
(03:15):
who want to be faithful and andwho have expressed, you know, a
real what can we say?
A real angst, anxiety, a realsort of even disorientation
about God's timeline.
Right, so we like God, but wewish God would take some advice
(03:36):
from us and show up faster andnot have this sort of gray area.
And so I guess the case I'mmaking today is just simply that
suspense is part of life withGod.
But the good news is, you know,the suspense is not if there's
God.
The suspense is how will Godchoose to be God and on what
(03:59):
timeline?
And that sends us, thatintersection sends us back to
the way that God has alreadybeen God, and it sends us back
to Scripture, with lots ofpeople before us and we pray,
(04:26):
lots of people afterwards whohave trusted God over time,
which is really the essence offaith.
Melissa (04:33):
Yeah, well, I love this .
Words matter to me, I lovewords, I love studying them and
suspense really got me.
But really, at the core of whatsuspense is the suspense is
just I don't know what's goingto happen, right, right.
And so where is the linebetween being comfortable with
(04:54):
suspense and trusting God?
Bishop Wright (04:56):
Yeah, so not to be too cheeky, right, because
there are lots of people whostruggle, lots of really decent
people, good people, people whowant to be faithful, who
struggle, who struggle, lots ofreally decent people, good
people, people who want to befaithful, who struggle.
And so I think what might helpis is that you know, again and
again and again in scripture, wehave to get down into the who
rather than the what and thewhen right, and so it's the who
(05:18):
that gives us buoyancy, you knowin.
You know in you know, thesetimes where we might sink or we
might fall into despair or evenbe discouraged, it's the who.
Again and again, the Bibletalks about who God is, who God
has been to our ancestors, andso it's the who that helps us to
make our way through thesuspense times, through the
(05:40):
times where it's not absolutelyclear.
And here we are, times whereit's not absolutely clear, and
here we are, you know, just instill an Easter right.
It's to who.
So who is this God who decidedthat crucifixion couldn't hold
God back?
Who is this God who decidedthat this God was not going to
be submitted to by the religiousor the political authorities,
(06:02):
but this God had God's own mindand decided to raise Jesus from
the dead.
Who is this God who, in 50 days, will give an unusual power to
God's church and give us theHoly Spirit and bind us together
?
You know so, I guess it's thewho, who, who, right?
That keeps us.
You know so, when we get to thewhen and the what, and even the
(06:24):
how and the how long, that canreally get discouraging.
And so what I always say is isthat what you need is an extra
scoop of who?
So who is God to you?
Who is God to you really is?
I mean so again, the Psalms.
Look at the Psalms again.
You know they say who God is,who God is, who God is, and it's
even interesting that in insome and it almost feels a bit
(06:48):
bipolar and I say that I usethat term with lots of respect,
having family members andfriends who struggle with that
but in one part of the psalm itis oh man, I'm catching hell.
Oh man, life is bad.
Oh man, where is God?
And then you can almost feelthe psalmist begin to minister
to his or herself and then sayand remember who God has been,
(07:13):
who God has been, who God hasbeen, and so what helps us to
fend off.
You know, the legitimate partof disorientation in our life
with God, suspense even with Godis who God has been right,
because who God has been is whoGod will be right.
So we say that God has notchanged and God has not changed.
(07:34):
And God is, you know, changedless.
It's us who do all the sort ofcapitulation and, you know, sort
of moving around, but God isour constant, and so what we
want to do is hold on.
It's interesting in this gospellesson, which is John 10, jesus
said look, I've already toldyou that I'm the Messiah right.
It's just in this gospel lesson, which is John 10, jesus said
look, I've already told you thatI'm the Messiah right, it's
(07:54):
just that you don't believe.
So here again, jesus comes andis the constant God in flesh,
and it's our vacillations, andso we're projecting on the Jesus
right.
And Jesus said no man, I'mclear who I am, I'm doing the
thing right.
Just come along, believe whatI've already told you.
Yeah, I think that's where thejoy for us is who has God been?
(08:18):
Who is God?
So you need another dose of who.
Melissa (08:40):
All right, come on, let's do that.
So, bishop, I don't know if Ithink we might have talked about
this, but I'm not sure if wetalked specifically about the
Conclave did we?
Did you see the movie?
Bishop Wright (08:49):
Oh, I did yeah, for sure, I just saw it because
I thought, for sure, I loved it.
Melissa (08:52):
I just saw it because I thought I'd be triggered by it,
and it was amazingly beautiful.
Well, I decided I was going towatch it in preparation for
what's actually going on, andone of the things we haven't
talked about on the podcast isthe death of Pope Francis.
Bishop Wright (09:07):
Yeah.
Melissa (09:08):
You know, suspense, not knowing what's going to happen,
Sure, and I love this.
The quote and I'm going to getit wrong, but the quote from the
movie is something aboutcertainty being like a terrible,
terrible thing.
Yeah, right, so how do we keepand hold in one hand the need to
be okay with suspense versusbeing so certain and so sure
(09:32):
that?
It doesn't leave room for faith.
Bishop Wright (09:36):
Well, I mean, you know what we're trying to
articulate is a squidgy thing.
We're trying to articulate alife of tension.
So we want to live in thetension of faith.
That's the best part, right.
But then at the same time,we're human and fallible, and so
, you know, the emotional,psychic, spiritual, physical
exertion of living in thattension overwhelms us, and then
(09:58):
we sort of settle for what Icall candy-coated certitudes or,
you know, frail formulas thatappear certain, and you know
this is when the church stopsbeing the church and starts
becoming some other kind oforganization.
You know, if you look back to,you know the Old Testament, you
(10:18):
know God frees the Hebrew slaves, moves them out into freedom,
and part of freedom is faith,and that is trusting God to rain
down manna from heaven.
You know water from a rock torain down manna from heaven.
You know water from a rock.
You know this new way to be.
And what they do pretty fast,you know this is why you have to
pay attention to those storieswhat they do pretty fast is
(10:46):
begin to engineer for themselvesa God that they prefer, which
is Moses is up in the mountain.
We don't know when Moses iscoming about.
You know suspense.
What the hell is Moses doing upthere?
Why the hell did they bring usout here, at least in Egypt?
Right, we had three hots and acot.
Right, we had three hot mealsand somewhere to sleep, even
though we had been in slavery,chattel slavery, for 400 years.
All of a sudden, just in abrief slice of the
(11:08):
responsibility of freedom, wesay, ah, slavery wasn't so bad.
Right, because slavery hadcertain certitudes, right.
And so what we prove in thatstory is that we would rather be
dogs on a leash than to followGod into God's freedom.
What it costs to follow Godinto God's freedom is faith.
(11:30):
And what faith costs is notknowing always how and when and
what, but knowing who.
Right.
So in Conclave they're justtrying to articulate, you know,
this human organization theCatholic Church in this instance
, and all churches and everybeliever you know, sort of
steering us away from cheapercertainties and half certainties
(11:53):
, because when you get intothose kinds of certainties,
idolatry is not very far away,right, idolatry is really close
to certainty, whether it be afinancial certainty, whether it
be, you know, organizationalkinds of certainty Now I'm not
talking about.
You know that we should alwayssort of not know where our next
dollar is coming from and allthose sorts of things.
(12:14):
But there is a journey calledfaith, described in Scripture,
and we were told in Scripturethat we can only please God by
having faith.
And what we decide to dosometimes is to choose our own
way, our own wisdom, our ownmind, and depart from that
pathway.
And then we get some things,and then you know, there's God
(12:35):
tapping us on the shoulder tosay is that all you wanted?
That was it.
There's so much more I couldshow you, and so I think this is
the invitation to us now, right?
So a lot of us have done apretty good job in life.
We've achieved some things.
So a lot of us have done apretty good job in life.
We've achieved some things, etcetera.
And some of us have beenreflective and said, wow, this
(12:56):
is all fine and I'm grateful forall the blessings of life.
But what would radicalfaithfulness look like now?
What do I need to let go of nowto really enjoy a life that I
can't conjure up for myself?
That's faith, and it has a cost, and so what we try to do is we
try to take all the risk out offollowing God, and God is like
(13:20):
well, you know.
Good luck with that.
That's not the genuine article.
Melissa (13:24):
Okay, so is there something of which we might be
certain?
Bishop Wright (13:29):
Yeah, yeah, I think what we can say is that
the universe has a benevolentmind and we call it God.
Look, I was in Charleston,south Carolina, the other day
and my wife had flown up and Idid a meeting and she flew back
and I stayed a couple extra days, devices, and so I hung out
(13:55):
there and so I had dinner bymyself, just walked into a
restaurant, had dinner, sat downat a bar and just was going to
have have some I have a mealright there and inevitably, you
know, just ended up in aconversation with a couple and,
uh, you know, as soon as I tellthem what I do for a living, you
know it's off to the races, man, you know it's like.
It's like either they want tosort of punish me for all the
(14:18):
things that faith didn't deliverto them, or a religious
community didn't deliver to them, or they're like okay, we got
somebody hostage here now.
That's right, give me some, tellme some stuff, right, and and
these were really a guy and agal, really sweet people, you
know, high, high functioningprofessionals.
One guy owned a companybusiness owner and the lady was
(14:40):
a registered nurse of law oflong standing, really beautiful
people.
And you know, and this guy, youknow, he was a recovering
Catholic, I think he would say,and he was just like, hey, man,
you know what, what's the dealhere?
What's the real deal, what'sthe bottom line?
By the way, I get that kind ofquestion a lot from
high-functioning business people.
They're like, okay, you knowwhat is cake and what is icing,
(15:02):
you know, and they want thebishop to tell them.
And so I said, look, you want toknow what the Bible is.
I said, look, the Bible is alot of things, right, the right.
The Bible is hyperbole, theBible is poetry, the Bible is
history, the Bible falls prey tomisogyny and, you know,
colonial narratives, it does allkinds of things, I said.
(15:25):
But to him I said but look,what we can be certain of, I
think, is that what everybody'strying to articulate, not only
the Christians, but faithcommunities all over the world,
spiritual communities all overthe world.
They're trying to point tosomething that we somehow know
is true, but words fail us indescribing it and we call that
(15:45):
God right.
And so I think that that's oneof the things that we can be
certain of Somehow this universeis fashioned and somehow, you
know people, you know generation, millennia of people have tried
to say, hey, there's somethingto this thing.
We live on a ball, exactly theright distance from the sun, you
(16:08):
know, made of water, in themiddle of a black sky, and we're
just one universe and galaxy ofinnumerable universes and
galaxies.
And somehow, somehow, here weare right, trying to point, and
all of our discovery, all of ourbeautiful scientific work, is
only discovering what alreadyexists, the elements of which
(16:30):
you know already exist, that wehad nothing to do with in
creating.
So, yeah, I think we can becertain that the universe has a
benevolent mind, even loving.
I believe that the Bible isright, that God is love.
I believe love is far beyond asentiment, you know, some kind
of syrupy thing.
I think we can rest in that,and then I think then we have to
(16:53):
figure out how we can be joyfulin the unlikely nature of our
existence, I mean the fact thatyou and I are here right now.
You know, mathematicallydoesn't make any sense.
It doesn't make any sense thatwe somehow got to the egg and
(17:16):
then we somehow made it throughgestation, and then you know on
and on and on and on.
I mean it doesn't make anysense.
And so I told this couple, Isaid so.
After all of that I said, look,um, I think the message at base
is because we're it is sounlikely that we're here, right,
we ought to have a lot more joythan we have, right?
(17:37):
So, on focusing on, you know,all the prickly stuff and I get
it maybe a focus on howradically we are provided for.
We have air, we have earth, wehave sky, we have water, we have
each other.
Why don't we sort of run inthat direction?
(18:00):
Maybe Jesus is saying that tothe folks who are in suspense.
I get your suspense about somethings, but what about the
bedrock of the whole thing?
And that is here I am, god, upclose.
Isn't it ironic that Jesus wasstanding within spitting
distance of them?
And here they are, you know,sort of wondering where and I
think sometimes that's a greatparable for us there's so much
(18:24):
in front of us right now thatdemonstrate for us the radical
provision of God, and yetsomehow we are not buoyed by
that.
Melissa (18:35):
All right.
So one final question then,Bishop.
I've got burning in me.
It is what's going to happennext.
Bishop Wright (18:46):
Well, I heard a guy say this.
He said look, people are askingthat question a lot in politics
nowadays, right?
So?
And here's what he said.
He said you know, we don't know, and I think that has integrity
to say we don't know, right?
So and here's what he said.
He said you know, we don't know, and I think that has integrity
to say we don't know, right.
But what he said and I thoughtthis was important he said but
what we have to do is to notlose our soul, and so there is
(19:09):
no suspense about what Jesuscalled us to say and do and be
with one another.
There's no suspense, Absolutelycrystal clear.
Love God, love neighbor.
Crystal clear, no suspense,right.
So what we've got to do is notcapitulate and not collude,
right, and to be ourselves, andourselves are followers of Jesus
(19:32):
, right God up close, and Ithink that is how we make our
way through all the gray areasof life.
Melissa (19:39):
Bishop, as always thank you.
And thank you, listeners, fortuning into For People.
You can follow us on Instagramand Facebook at Bishop Rob
Wright, or by visiting www.
forpeople.
digital.
Please subscribe, leave areview, don't forget to fill out
your survey and we'll be backwith you next week.
Suspense is part of life with God, but the good
news is, you know, the suspenseis not if there's God.
The suspense is how will Godchoose to be God and on what
timeline?
That intersection sends us backto the way that God has already
been God and it sends us backto Scripture to meet men and
women in the 66 books of theBible who trusted God or
(00:23):
attempted to trust God in theirown time, which is really the
essence of faith.
Melissa (00:40):
Welcome to For People with Bishop Rob Wright.
I'm Melissa Rau and this is aconversation inspired by For
Faith, a weekly devotion sentout every Friday.
You can find a link to thisweek's Four Faith and a link to
subscribe in the episode'sdescription.
Now, friends, last week, lastepisode, for our 250th
celebration, we announced thefact that we've developed a
(01:02):
survey, and we would so welcomeyour engagement with that.
You can find a link to thesurvey right in this episode's
description and, you know,please take some time, not long,
it's maybe two minutes of it,but it'll give us some great
feedback for us to consider aswe move forward for our next 250
episodes.
How's it going, bishop?
Bishop Wright (01:23):
Fine Thanks.
Let me just echo that, Melissa,and just ask you please fill
out the survey so that we canknow what we're doing well and
what we could do better.
We'd really appreciate it.
So far, we've had a goodresponse from people, but need
to get some more responses so wecan make some really good
decisions going forward.
So thank you for listening for250 episodes and we're looking
(01:47):
forward to 250 more.
Melissa (01:48):
All right.
So, Bishop, this week's yourDevotion you called Suspense and
it's based off of John 10, 22to 30, really about what's going
on, what's happening here.
How might we be with God, howmight God be in the future,
(02:09):
really not knowing what'shappening post-resurrection?
Bishop Wright (02:13):
Right?
Well, that sort of takes usright to the center of it,
doesn't it?
I mean, we love suspense interms of our entertainment,
don't we?
I mean, you know we watchseries on our streaming services
.
You know some people arewatching White Lotus and all
kinds of other things, andthere's cliffhangers, and you
know we have to sort of hold onand chew our nails until the
(02:34):
next installment.
And so, you know, I got to theword suspense and usually when I
write these things, I use aword from the actual lesson.
And so, you know, folks came toJesus and said how long will
you keep us in suspense?
You know, are you the Messiahor not, right?
(02:55):
And so I mean, I guess you know.
And then I just use you know aword as a departure point.
And you know the other way Iget to it too is that when I see
that word in the text and thenI think about, you know, the
other way I get to it too is isthat when I see that word in the
text and then I think about youknow the innumerable
conversations that I've had withpeople.
You know good folks, you knowall over the world literally,
(03:15):
who want to be faithful and andwho have expressed, you know, a
real what can we say?
A real angst, anxiety, a realsort of even disorientation
about God's timeline.
Right, so we like God, but wewish God would take some advice
(03:36):
from us and show up faster andnot have this sort of gray area.
And so I guess the case I'mmaking today is just simply that
suspense is part of life withGod.
But the good news is, you know,the suspense is not if there's
God.
The suspense is how will Godchoose to be God and on what
(03:59):
timeline?
And that sends us, thatintersection sends us back to
the way that God has alreadybeen God, and it sends us back
to Scripture, with lots ofpeople before us and we pray,
(04:26):
lots of people afterwards whohave trusted God over time,
which is really the essence offaith.
Melissa (04:33):
Yeah, well, I love this .
Words matter to me, I lovewords, I love studying them and
suspense really got me.
But really, at the core of whatsuspense is the suspense is
just I don't know what's goingto happen, right, right.
And so where is the linebetween being comfortable with
(04:54):
suspense and trusting God?
Bishop Wright (04:56):
Yeah, so not to be too cheeky, right, because
there are lots of people whostruggle, lots of really decent
people, good people, people whowant to be faithful, who
struggle, who struggle, lots ofreally decent people, good
people, people who want to befaithful, who struggle.
And so I think what might helpis is that you know, again and
again and again in scripture, wehave to get down into the who
rather than the what and thewhen right, and so it's the who
(05:18):
that gives us buoyancy, you knowin.
You know in you know, thesetimes where we might sink or we
might fall into despair or evenbe discouraged, it's the who.
Again and again, the Bibletalks about who God is, who God
has been to our ancestors, andso it's the who that helps us to
make our way through thesuspense times, through the
(05:40):
times where it's not absolutelyclear.
And here we are, times whereit's not absolutely clear, and
here we are, you know, just instill an Easter right.
It's to who.
So who is this God who decidedthat crucifixion couldn't hold
God back?
Who is this God who decidedthat this God was not going to
be submitted to by the religiousor the political authorities,
(06:02):
but this God had God's own mindand decided to raise Jesus from
the dead.
Who is this God who, in 50 days, will give an unusual power to
God's church and give us theHoly Spirit and bind us together
?
You know so, I guess it's thewho, who, who, right?
That keeps us.
You know so, when we get to thewhen and the what, and even the
(06:24):
how and the how long, that canreally get discouraging.
And so what I always say is isthat what you need is an extra
scoop of who?
So who is God to you?
Who is God to you really is?
I mean so again, the Psalms.
Look at the Psalms again.
You know they say who God is,who God is, who God is, and it's
even interesting that in insome and it almost feels a bit
(06:48):
bipolar and I say that I usethat term with lots of respect,
having family members andfriends who struggle with that
but in one part of the psalm itis oh man, I'm catching hell.
Oh man, life is bad.
Oh man, where is God?
And then you can almost feelthe psalmist begin to minister
to his or herself and then sayand remember who God has been,
(07:13):
who God has been, who God hasbeen, and so what helps us to
fend off.
You know, the legitimate partof disorientation in our life
with God, suspense even with Godis who God has been right,
because who God has been is whoGod will be right.
So we say that God has notchanged and God has not changed.
(07:34):
And God is, you know, changedless.
It's us who do all the sort ofcapitulation and, you know, sort
of moving around, but God isour constant, and so what we
want to do is hold on.
It's interesting in this gospellesson, which is John 10, jesus
said look, I've already toldyou that I'm the Messiah right.
It's just in this gospel lesson, which is John 10, jesus said
look, I've already told you thatI'm the Messiah right, it's
(07:54):
just that you don't believe.
So here again, jesus comes andis the constant God in flesh,
and it's our vacillations, andso we're projecting on the Jesus
right.
And Jesus said no man, I'mclear who I am, I'm doing the
thing right.
Just come along, believe whatI've already told you.
Yeah, I think that's where thejoy for us is who has God been?
(08:18):
Who is God?
So you need another dose of who.
Melissa (08:40):
All right, come on, let's do that.
So, bishop, I don't know if Ithink we might have talked about
this, but I'm not sure if wetalked specifically about the
Conclave did we?
Did you see the movie?
Bishop Wright (08:49):
Oh, I did yeah, for sure, I just saw it because
I thought, for sure, I loved it.
Melissa (08:52):
I just saw it because I thought I'd be triggered by it,
and it was amazingly beautiful.
Well, I decided I was going towatch it in preparation for
what's actually going on, andone of the things we haven't
talked about on the podcast isthe death of Pope Francis.
Bishop Wright (09:07):
Yeah.
Melissa (09:08):
You know, suspense, not knowing what's going to happen,
Sure, and I love this.
The quote and I'm going to getit wrong, but the quote from the
movie is something aboutcertainty being like a terrible,
terrible thing.
Yeah, right, so how do we keepand hold in one hand the need to
be okay with suspense versusbeing so certain and so sure
(09:32):
that?
It doesn't leave room for faith.
Bishop Wright (09:36):
Well, I mean, you know what we're trying to
articulate is a squidgy thing.
We're trying to articulate alife of tension.
So we want to live in thetension of faith.
That's the best part, right.
But then at the same time,we're human and fallible, and so
, you know, the emotional,psychic, spiritual, physical
exertion of living in thattension overwhelms us, and then
(09:58):
we sort of settle for what Icall candy-coated certitudes or,
you know, frail formulas thatappear certain, and you know
this is when the church stopsbeing the church and starts
becoming some other kind oforganization.
You know, if you look back to,you know the Old Testament, you
(10:18):
know God frees the Hebrew slaves, moves them out into freedom,
and part of freedom is faith,and that is trusting God to rain
down manna from heaven.
You know water from a rock torain down manna from heaven.
You know water from a rock.
You know this new way to be.
And what they do pretty fast,you know this is why you have to
pay attention to those storieswhat they do pretty fast is
(10:46):
begin to engineer for themselvesa God that they prefer, which
is Moses is up in the mountain.
We don't know when Moses iscoming about.
You know suspense.
What the hell is Moses doing upthere?
Why the hell did they bring usout here, at least in Egypt?
Right, we had three hots and acot.
Right, we had three hot mealsand somewhere to sleep, even
though we had been in slavery,chattel slavery, for 400 years.
All of a sudden, just in abrief slice of the
(11:08):
responsibility of freedom, wesay, ah, slavery wasn't so bad.
Right, because slavery hadcertain certitudes, right.
And so what we prove in thatstory is that we would rather be
dogs on a leash than to followGod into God's freedom.
What it costs to follow Godinto God's freedom is faith.
(11:30):
And what faith costs is notknowing always how and when and
what, but knowing who.
Right.
So in Conclave they're justtrying to articulate, you know,
this human organization theCatholic Church in this instance
, and all churches and everybeliever you know, sort of
steering us away from cheapercertainties and half certainties
(11:53):
, because when you get intothose kinds of certainties,
idolatry is not very far away,right, idolatry is really close
to certainty, whether it be afinancial certainty, whether it
be, you know, organizationalkinds of certainty Now I'm not
talking about.
You know that we should alwayssort of not know where our next
dollar is coming from and allthose sorts of things.
(12:14):
But there is a journey calledfaith, described in Scripture,
and we were told in Scripturethat we can only please God by
having faith.
And what we decide to dosometimes is to choose our own
way, our own wisdom, our ownmind, and depart from that
pathway.
And then we get some things,and then you know, there's God
(12:35):
tapping us on the shoulder tosay is that all you wanted?
That was it.
There's so much more I couldshow you, and so I think this is
the invitation to us now, right?
So a lot of us have done apretty good job in life.
We've achieved some things.
So a lot of us have done apretty good job in life.
We've achieved some things, etcetera.
And some of us have beenreflective and said, wow, this
(12:56):
is all fine and I'm grateful forall the blessings of life.
But what would radicalfaithfulness look like now?
What do I need to let go of nowto really enjoy a life that I
can't conjure up for myself?
That's faith, and it has a cost, and so what we try to do is we
try to take all the risk out offollowing God, and God is like
(13:20):
well, you know.
Good luck with that.
That's not the genuine article.
Melissa (13:24):
Okay, so is there something of which we might be
certain?
Bishop Wright (13:29):
Yeah, yeah, I think what we can say is that
the universe has a benevolentmind and we call it God.
Look, I was in Charleston,south Carolina, the other day
and my wife had flown up and Idid a meeting and she flew back
and I stayed a couple extra days, devices, and so I hung out
(13:55):
there and so I had dinner bymyself, just walked into a
restaurant, had dinner, sat downat a bar and just was going to
have have some I have a mealright there and inevitably, you
know, just ended up in aconversation with a couple and,
uh, you know, as soon as I tellthem what I do for a living, you
know it's off to the races, man, you know it's like.
It's like either they want tosort of punish me for all the
(14:18):
things that faith didn't deliverto them, or a religious
community didn't deliver to them, or they're like okay, we got
somebody hostage here now.
That's right, give me some, tellme some stuff, right, and and
these were really a guy and agal, really sweet people, you
know, high, high functioningprofessionals.
One guy owned a companybusiness owner and the lady was
(14:40):
a registered nurse of law oflong standing, really beautiful
people.
And you know, and this guy, youknow, he was a recovering
Catholic, I think he would say,and he was just like, hey, man,
you know what, what's the dealhere?
What's the real deal, what'sthe bottom line?
By the way, I get that kind ofquestion a lot from
high-functioning business people.
They're like, okay, you knowwhat is cake and what is icing,
(15:02):
you know, and they want thebishop to tell them.
And so I said, look, you want toknow what the Bible is.
I said, look, the Bible is alot of things, right, the right.
The Bible is hyperbole, theBible is poetry, the Bible is
history, the Bible falls prey tomisogyny and, you know,
colonial narratives, it does allkinds of things, I said.
(15:25):
But to him I said but look,what we can be certain of, I
think, is that what everybody'strying to articulate, not only
the Christians, but faithcommunities all over the world,
spiritual communities all overthe world.
They're trying to point tosomething that we somehow know
is true, but words fail us indescribing it and we call that
(15:45):
God right.
And so I think that that's oneof the things that we can be
certain of Somehow this universeis fashioned and somehow, you
know people, you know generation, millennia of people have tried
to say, hey, there's somethingto this thing.
We live on a ball, exactly theright distance from the sun, you
(16:08):
know, made of water, in themiddle of a black sky, and we're
just one universe and galaxy ofinnumerable universes and
galaxies.
And somehow, somehow, here weare right, trying to point, and
all of our discovery, all of ourbeautiful scientific work, is
only discovering what alreadyexists, the elements of which
(16:30):
you know already exist, that wehad nothing to do with in
creating.
So, yeah, I think we can becertain that the universe has a
benevolent mind, even loving.
I believe that the Bible isright, that God is love.
I believe love is far beyond asentiment, you know, some kind
of syrupy thing.
I think we can rest in that,and then I think then we have to
(16:53):
figure out how we can be joyfulin the unlikely nature of our
existence, I mean the fact thatyou and I are here right now.
You know, mathematicallydoesn't make any sense.
It doesn't make any sense thatwe somehow got to the egg and
(17:16):
then we somehow made it throughgestation, and then you know on
and on and on and on.
I mean it doesn't make anysense.
And so I told this couple, Isaid so.
After all of that I said, look,um, I think the message at base
is because we're it is sounlikely that we're here, right,
we ought to have a lot more joythan we have, right?
(17:37):
So, on focusing on, you know,all the prickly stuff and I get
it maybe a focus on howradically we are provided for.
We have air, we have earth, wehave sky, we have water, we have
each other.
Why don't we sort of run inthat direction?
(18:00):
Maybe Jesus is saying that tothe folks who are in suspense.
I get your suspense about somethings, but what about the
bedrock of the whole thing?
And that is here I am, god, upclose.
Isn't it ironic that Jesus wasstanding within spitting
distance of them?
And here they are, you know,sort of wondering where and I
think sometimes that's a greatparable for us there's so much
(18:24):
in front of us right now thatdemonstrate for us the radical
provision of God, and yetsomehow we are not buoyed by
that.
Melissa (18:35):
All right.
So one final question then,Bishop.
I've got burning in me.
It is what's going to happennext.
Bishop Wright (18:46):
Well, I heard a guy say this.
He said look, people are askingthat question a lot in politics
nowadays, right?
So?
And here's what he said.
He said you know, we don't know, and I think that has integrity
to say we don't know, right?
So and here's what he said.
He said you know, we don't know, and I think that has integrity
to say we don't know, right.
But what he said and I thoughtthis was important he said but
what we have to do is to notlose our soul, and so there is
(19:09):
no suspense about what Jesuscalled us to say and do and be
with one another.
There's no suspense, Absolutelycrystal clear.
Love God, love neighbor.
Crystal clear, no suspense,right.
So what we've got to do is notcapitulate and not collude,
right, and to be ourselves, andourselves are followers of Jesus
(19:32):
, right God up close, and Ithink that is how we make our
way through all the gray areasof life.
Melissa (19:39):
Bishop, as always thank you.
And thank you, listeners, fortuning into For People.
You can follow us on Instagramand Facebook at Bishop Rob
Wright, or by visiting www.
forpeople.
digital.
Please subscribe, leave areview, don't forget to fill out
your survey and we'll be backwith you next week.
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