June 13, 2025 • 20 mins
What happens when we encounter truth we aren't ready for? Jesus' words about the Spirit of Truth were a guide to his disciples who couldn't yet bear everything their teacher had to share. Jesus' teachings on the Spirit of Truth remain a guide for us today too!
In this episode, Melissa and Bishop Wright have a conversation about truth and the weigh it carries in our lives. Most of us resist truth because we don't want our failures and frailties exposed. Yet spiritual maturity manifests in precisely this capacity: can we hear unflattering truths about ourselves without crumbling? Can we embrace both our status as sinners and saints? The liberating truth Jesus offers is that we don't need to earn our worth—we're already infinitely valued in God's eyes! Listen in for the full conversation.
Read For Faith, the companion devotional.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bishop Wright (00:00):
When it comes to this spiritual truth, we need a
guide, and so Jesus says you candepend on the spirit of truth
to be your guide.
So truth is also an aspect ofwho God is.
God is true, right.
So God is all truth.
God is not just wisdom and allthose sorts of things.
We believe that God in God'sself, in God's nature, is truth,
(00:22):
and we would say that God islove, and love is the ground of
ultimate reality.
That's what we would say.
That would be truth.
Melissa (00:40):
Welcome to For People with Bishop Rob Wright.
I'm Melissa Rau and this is aconversation inspired by Four
Faith, a weekly devotion sentout every Friday.
You can find a link to thisweek's Four Faith and a link to
subscribe in the episode'sdescription.
Good morning, bishop.
Bishop Wright (00:55):
Morning morning.
Melissa (00:57):
Today we're talking about truth, that is or you
named your devotion this weekbased off of John, chapter 16,
verses 12 through 15.
And it's really Jesus is sayingthat.
Listen like, uh, I gotsomething to say, but you're not
really ready to hear it.
Bishop Wright (01:17):
Can't hear it all .
Melissa (01:19):
Come on, I really like your, uh, your quote, how you
quoted, uh, Jack Nicholson.
You can't handle the truth.
Bishop Wright (01:25):
Right, right.
Well, that's one of the bestscenes in that movie.
Of course, the movie was A FewGood Men right.
And Jack Nicholson is the headof the Marine Division.
I think it's Guantanamo Bay inCuba.
He lives on the line, heprotects the border wall, he's
got Marines under his care andthey're forward deployed.
(01:49):
And, as we know, as the storygoes, Tom Cruise, this young,
smart lawyer, just gets a threadand keeps pulling on it and
he's trying to provoke JackNicholson's character.
Jack Nicholson's character ison the stand and finally, you
know, this little snot-nosedlawyer says to this decorated
(02:11):
war veteran you know I'mentitled to the truth.
So Nicholson says you can'thandle the truth.
And then what follows is reallyphenomenal.
You know, we usually stoplistening and you can't handle
the truth.
But then what Nicholson doeseffectively I mean, he's
supposed to be the villain inthe story, but what he does do,
and maybe I have a soft part ofmy heart for this, being an
(02:34):
ex-military guy he begins todescribe what is necessary to
keep people safe, and a lot ofthat we don't even want to know
nowadays in America on why ourgas is cheap and why this and
(02:54):
why that and the other thing,and that we've got families
pulled apart because we've gotmen and women now forward
deployed and they're goingplaces and doing things that
they can either confirm or deny,you know.
But that's where the comparisonsort of ends between Nicholson
and Jesus.
Melissa (03:13):
That's right.
Bishop Wright (03:13):
Yeah, because, you know, Jesus is not an
ex-Marine as much as some of usmight want to make him an
ex-Marine, right?
I mean, Jesus got, he's gotthis fleshy heart and he
realizes that he's not trying toshame people for the inability
to have all of the truth at thismoment.
He's trying to let them knowthat, you know, the gift is the
(03:33):
spirit and the spirit will leadyou in the truth.
In other words, we know thatgrowing up in the ability to
tell and to handle and to heartruth is a journey, is a journey
right?
And when we look societally atthis, you know, in our society,
in global societies, we usuallykill people who tell the truth
(03:57):
about the way that we are asnations and the way we are as
economic systems, et cetera.
We don't want too much truth,because truth actually is
disruptive to the status quo,the status quo we like.
Melissa (04:11):
Well, can we pick that apart a little bit though,
Bishop, Because I feel like alot of people.
What is truth anyway?
Bishop Wright (04:19):
Yeah, well, I mean, that was Pontius, wasn't
that Pontius Pilate's question?
Melissa (04:25):
It might have been.
Bishop Wright (04:28):
Well, what we try to say about truth is the sort
of in the hand definition oftruth would be reality, which
begs another question.
So then, what is reality?
I mean, there's scientifictruth and all those sorts of
things, and you know nowadays,you know, any opinion will do as
a way to sort of unseatanything that's even scientific
(04:50):
truth nowadays, and we use theword feeling right, to sort of
disembowel anything that mightlook like truth.
But Jesus is basically sayingis that there is a reality about
God and about the nature oflife that you can't hear, you
can't handle, you can't sort ofget your head around all at this
(05:11):
time.
And so you know I mean, thinkabout it for just a second the
reality of Jesus is a bit toomuch for most of us, right?
And so the fact that to grow upspiritually means you're going
to have to die to some thingsnot physically right, but you're
going to have to die to somethings, not physically right,
but you're going to have to dieto some things it is, you know,
a part of spirituality, modernday spirituality, that people
(05:33):
don't want to hear, and that isnevertheless the truth.
I mean, Jesus demonstrates thisvividly in his own life, right,
and then nature tells us thistruth right.
And nature tells us this truthright Is that you know the
leaves fall, you know, in autumn, and they end up mulching
themselves with their deadleaves and then over a period of
(05:55):
time, then that tree comes backto life never was really dead,
but comes back to life in newand vivid ways and so we have a
connection to the natural worldand the spiritual sort of
revelation that Jesus showed us.
That is truth for us, and truthfor us as people who believe is
(06:16):
that God is real and able andgood and generous.
We take that truth in by faith.
We take that truth in by thecommunity of faith.
We take that truth in by theword of God, which we believe is
many things poetry, metaphor,you know, archaeology, lots of
(06:39):
different kinds of things.
So truth would be about an hourconversation, you know, just by
itself.
But what Jesus I think ispointing to his who is the
nature, what is the nature ofGod, and can you embrace all of
that now?
Also, Jesus has been with thesefolks for three years and so
he's sort of got a sense oftheir learning habits right and
(07:02):
their ability sort of tocomprehend a lot of the stuff
that he's wanting to talk tothem about, but don't miss the
big point.
The big point is is that whenit comes to this spiritual truth
, we need a guide, and so Jesussays you can depend on the
(07:22):
spirit of truth to be your guide.
So truth is also an aspect ofwho God is.
God is true, Right, so God isall truth.
You know, God is not justwisdom and all those sorts of
things.
We believe that God, in God'sself, in God's nature, is truth,
and we would say that God islove, and love is ultimately
(07:45):
right, the ground of ultimatereality.
That's what we would say, andso that would be truth would say
, and so that would be truth.
(08:28):
lot of confusion, or at least Idon't know.
I don't know if it'smisdirection, confusion, or
maybe somebody's onto somethingthat I'm just not sure of.
I feel like a lot of people areempowered to really go down
deep individually, which I thinkis part of it, and yet not the
full story.
I think we have what we havegiven to us by our birthright,
(08:49):
this discerning, contemplativething.
Within that the spirit doesdwell within us, and yet I don't
know that we listened to spiritjust by ourselves, but that it
is in with community.
No, I mean.
So what you're trying to do isyou're trying to point to a
truth about spirit, about spirit, right, you're trying to say
(09:12):
that spirit is dynamic and alivethrough community, right, and
is available to us throughcommunity, is not just a sole
personal project.
And so we would say that thatis accumulated wisdom, and we
would say it points to a truthabout the nature of spirit.
(09:35):
And, of course, matthew, mark,luke and John tell that story
out, right, jesus just doesn'tstay in the wilderness all by
himself, thinking beautifulthoughts, all by himself, right,
he comes and he lives.
One of the truths that we pointto, excuse me, one of the
truths that we point to can besummed up in the cross.
The cross has a horizontal axisand a vertical axis.
(09:58):
Not only is it the instrumentof shame and sort of heinous
death that the Roman Empire used, but we believe it also points
to a reality about the nature oflife with God that it is both
vertical and horizontal at thesame time.
So, yeah, you can go on amountain and think great
(10:19):
thoughts about God, and that'sgreat, but yet it has to be
lived out here on the horizontalplane that God and God's
fullness can be known Right.
So you know, I love when peopletell me yeah, man, I'm all for
the, for the Jesus thing.
It's just that Jesus's friendsI don't want to be involved with
(10:40):
, right, and like, I totally getthat.
And they say that this, I don'twant to go to church and I
don't want to be involved.
I get that.
The truth of the matter is isyou just can't think your way
into the kingdom of heaven,right, I mean, jesus comes as
spirit, as God, into flesh tolive among us.
We call that the incarnation.
(11:00):
We would say that is the livingout of a truth, right, that
this has to be lived out rightOn the ground.
You know, I like to say infingernail, dirty places with
people.
And so who was it?
That wonderful woman, dorothyDay, who said you only love God
as much as you sort of love theperson you hate the most?
(11:24):
Right, and so that's a truthabout the nature of God.
And so there's lots of pricklytruths about God.
You know where your treasure is.
There also is your heart.
Ouch, right, I mean, we got tothink about that.
You know, I heard a guy one timeget up in the pulpit.
(11:45):
I was sitting way in the backand he was preaching a sermon
about prayer and everybody hewas a good preacher and
everybody was sort of on theedge of their seat listening to
the guy.
And then he just sort ofstopped and said if the church
and if the world depended onyour prayers, where would the
church and the world be?
(12:05):
And I saw like a room of 200people collectively slink down
in their chairs, right.
So there is that thing that weare simultaneously hungry for to
a degree, and terribly afraidof at the same time, because
what we don't want about truthis we don't want to be revealed.
(12:27):
We don't want our foibles, ourfailures, our frailties to be
revealed, and truth is arevealer, right.
We don't want that aspect oftruth.
But also, truth sets us free,right?
I mean I think I read thatsomewhere in the Bible, right?
And so we're sort of snagged,we're sort of living on a fence
(12:49):
about all this sort of thing.
I heard another guy say you know, god, we love you, but we are
afraid to love you too much.
We're afraid to love you toomuch means is that there's some
part of us we want to and feellike we need to preserve and
even keep from God, right,rather than the truth of the
matter is, is that you've neverbeen more yourself?
(13:10):
Is that you've never been moreyourself than you are living a
faithful life with God?
Right?
And so we are this.
You know what's that wonderfuljoke about?
What's the difference between abig pickup truck and a Ferrari,
right?
Sports car capacity, right?
So we have a limited capacityfor truth because we want it, we
(13:36):
say we want it.
We're not sure we want it,we're afraid of it.
Mostly, we don't want anybodyto weaponize it against us
Certainly not.
And yet life with God, right,life with Jesus, life with his
words, life with his example,right, is like a level, you know
carpenter's tool, like a levelfor our lives, right.
(13:58):
And so one of the you know,let's get to the end part of
this, one of the greatindicators for us as we're
walking along with God in ourlife is our ability now to hear
and to handle truth, evenunflattering truth, about
ourselves.
You can go to Harvard and studyleadership and they will tell
(14:21):
you that people who have a lotof fragility cannot lead
effectively because they lackthe ability to interrogate their
own actions and motivations.
They can't see their owntriggers and vulnerabilities.
Therefore, their companies andthe work that they do sort of
prematurely plateaus.
(14:43):
So here we are now with the2,000-year-old wisdom from Jesus
and cutting-edge leadershipstudies from Harvard Kennedy
School now singing the same song.
So there's something about usthat we need to grow up Now.
The good news is, as Jesuspromised in this text in John 16
, the Spirit will guide you intoall truth, and that's what we
(15:06):
would call spiritual maturity iscan I get to the place where I
acknowledge that I am bothsinner and saint?
Can I get to the place where Ican acknowledge I am fearfully
and wonderfully made and I'm atthe same time frail?
Can I get to the place where Irealize that, for all of my
(15:29):
distinctions and achievements, Iam loved and valued just as
much as the drunk in the gutterin God's eyes?
I mean that's an amazinglyfreeing place to be finally to
get to eyes.
I mean that's an amazinglyfreeing place to be finally to
get to.
Is that I don't have to gin upany worth?
(15:50):
That's a truth that I'm alreadyworth everything in God's eyes,
and so is my neighbor.
Melissa (15:55):
Well, yes, yes, yes.
All of that and I'm going todumb it down a little bit,
Bishop, because you sounded verymature in everything that you
said, Because all I had the wordglaring in my face is ego, and
that's the problem and so myquestion is is how might we be
(16:17):
better?
Or how might we because truthand trust go hand in hand, right
?
Bishop Wright (16:21):
Yes, they do.
Melissa (16:22):
How might we better reveal God's truth, capital T,
without our own personal agendas, and actually trust the Spirit
to guide even other people intheir own communities and trust
them to understand what theSpirit is saying to them,
without trying to lead thewitness, if you will?
Bishop Wright (16:43):
Well, we have to start with the fact that this is
not to self-help society.
You know this podcast does notpoint ultimately that we're good
people.
This podcast, I hope, points tothe fact that we have an aid in
the Holy Spirit and, just likeJesus is saying so, I think if
we want to grow up I mean, I'vesaid this countless times St
Paul says this in 1 Corinthians13.
(17:03):
If we want to grow up right,maybe we ought to start with
prayer.
Lord, I realize the ways inwhich my behavior seem to be at
oddsges that I hold and the lackof forgiveness you know I.
(17:25):
You know I hold up.
You know I see how I live atodds with who you invite me to
be Lord, and so I see that now,lord, and I ask you to help me
to grow up right in the fullstature of Christ.
We're supposed to be growing upin the full stature of Christ,
not some arbitrary measurement,right, but Christ as we know him
(17:47):
in Matthew, mark, luke and John.
So to bring these stories intoour lives and then try to live
them, try to square up to themas much as we can, realizing
that nobody's perfect, that weall fall short, but to begin to
intentionally bring thosestories, bring the grace of the
Holy Spirit into our lives, tosay welcome.
I think that's where it is.
(18:09):
You know, one of the things Ilove about the AA community is
that they say you know, look, Irealize I have no power right
over this thing, right, and so Iknow I need help.
And yet Christians, you know,years after years, Sunday after
Sunday, sit down and act likethis is a self-help society.
And so what we do is we do adiscredit to the spirit, we do
(18:29):
all the fake church smile and wedo sort of the performance of
what I call religiousentertainment and all that sort
of stuff, and it's just notworth anything.
What's worth anything, andeverything is to say, is to
confess the ways in which wefall short.
And what if we can't see thoseways?
That's a good question too.
(18:50):
It might be even to say Lord,help me to see the ways if I
can't see them.
You talked about ego.
Sometimes ego has blinders andwe just can't see, we don't want
to see or we're too fragile tobe able to see.
A lot of us have had a lot oftrouble, a lot of up and downs,
a lot of family of origin issues, all kinds of trauma in our
(19:11):
lives, and so to begin to pullback that sort of stuff, we feel
very vulnerable, we feel veryfragile, and so that becomes an
impediment to a real, deep andabiding relationship with Christ
.
And so the truth is is thatit's going to take time, it's a
process, right, but we can getstarted today, if we want to, by
(19:32):
simply saying Lord, here I am,I'm made in your image.
I know that, and yet I want toknow you more and I want to make
more room in my heart for yourtruth.
So you know that may be one ofthe most dangerous prayers that
we could ever pray, you know, isto say Lord, I think I'm ready
now to integrate you know allthat.
(19:52):
I am right as a, as anopportunity to worship you.
Melissa (19:57):
Love it, Love it.
Bishop, thank you so much forbringing bringing that truth for
us and listeners.
We're grateful to you fortuning into For People.
You can follow us on Instagramand Facebook at Bishop Rob
Wright, or by visiting www.
forpeople.
digital.
Please subscribe, leave areview and we'll be back with
you next week.
When it comes to this spiritual truth, we need a
guide, and so Jesus says you candepend on the spirit of truth
to be your guide.
So truth is also an aspect ofwho God is.
God is true, right.
So God is all truth.
God is not just wisdom and allthose sorts of things.
We believe that God in God'sself, in God's nature, is truth,
(00:22):
and we would say that God islove, and love is the ground of
ultimate reality.
That's what we would say.
That would be truth.
Melissa (00:40):
Welcome to For People with Bishop Rob Wright.
I'm Melissa Rau and this is aconversation inspired by Four
Faith, a weekly devotion sentout every Friday.
You can find a link to thisweek's Four Faith and a link to
subscribe in the episode'sdescription.
Good morning, bishop.
Bishop Wright (00:55):
Morning morning.
Melissa (00:57):
Today we're talking about truth, that is or you
named your devotion this weekbased off of John, chapter 16,
verses 12 through 15.
And it's really Jesus is sayingthat.
Listen like, uh, I gotsomething to say, but you're not
really ready to hear it.
Bishop Wright (01:17):
Can't hear it all .
Melissa (01:19):
Come on, I really like your, uh, your quote, how you
quoted, uh, Jack Nicholson.
You can't handle the truth.
Bishop Wright (01:25):
Right, right.
Well, that's one of the bestscenes in that movie.
Of course, the movie was A FewGood Men right.
And Jack Nicholson is the headof the Marine Division.
I think it's Guantanamo Bay inCuba.
He lives on the line, heprotects the border wall, he's
got Marines under his care andthey're forward deployed.
(01:49):
And, as we know, as the storygoes, Tom Cruise, this young,
smart lawyer, just gets a threadand keeps pulling on it and
he's trying to provoke JackNicholson's character.
Jack Nicholson's character ison the stand and finally, you
know, this little snot-nosedlawyer says to this decorated
(02:11):
war veteran you know I'mentitled to the truth.
So Nicholson says you can'thandle the truth.
And then what follows is reallyphenomenal.
You know, we usually stoplistening and you can't handle
the truth.
But then what Nicholson doeseffectively I mean, he's
supposed to be the villain inthe story, but what he does do,
and maybe I have a soft part ofmy heart for this, being an
(02:34):
ex-military guy he begins todescribe what is necessary to
keep people safe, and a lot ofthat we don't even want to know
nowadays in America on why ourgas is cheap and why this and
(02:54):
why that and the other thing,and that we've got families
pulled apart because we've gotmen and women now forward
deployed and they're goingplaces and doing things that
they can either confirm or deny,you know.
But that's where the comparisonsort of ends between Nicholson
and Jesus.
Melissa (03:13):
That's right.
Bishop Wright (03:13):
Yeah, because, you know, Jesus is not an
ex-Marine as much as some of usmight want to make him an
ex-Marine, right?
I mean, Jesus got, he's gotthis fleshy heart and he
realizes that he's not trying toshame people for the inability
to have all of the truth at thismoment.
He's trying to let them knowthat, you know, the gift is the
(03:33):
spirit and the spirit will leadyou in the truth.
In other words, we know thatgrowing up in the ability to
tell and to handle and to heartruth is a journey, is a journey
right?
And when we look societally atthis, you know, in our society,
in global societies, we usuallykill people who tell the truth
(03:57):
about the way that we are asnations and the way we are as
economic systems, et cetera.
We don't want too much truth,because truth actually is
disruptive to the status quo,the status quo we like.
Melissa (04:11):
Well, can we pick that apart a little bit though,
Bishop, Because I feel like alot of people.
What is truth anyway?
Bishop Wright (04:19):
Yeah, well, I mean, that was Pontius, wasn't
that Pontius Pilate's question?
Melissa (04:25):
It might have been.
Bishop Wright (04:28):
Well, what we try to say about truth is the sort
of in the hand definition oftruth would be reality, which
begs another question.
So then, what is reality?
I mean, there's scientifictruth and all those sorts of
things, and you know nowadays,you know, any opinion will do as
a way to sort of unseatanything that's even scientific
(04:50):
truth nowadays, and we use theword feeling right, to sort of
disembowel anything that mightlook like truth.
But Jesus is basically sayingis that there is a reality about
God and about the nature oflife that you can't hear, you
can't handle, you can't sort ofget your head around all at this
(05:11):
time.
And so you know I mean, thinkabout it for just a second the
reality of Jesus is a bit toomuch for most of us, right?
And so the fact that to grow upspiritually means you're going
to have to die to some thingsnot physically right, but you're
going to have to die to somethings, not physically right,
but you're going to have to dieto some things it is, you know,
a part of spirituality, modernday spirituality, that people
(05:33):
don't want to hear, and that isnevertheless the truth.
I mean, Jesus demonstrates thisvividly in his own life, right,
and then nature tells us thistruth right.
And nature tells us this truthright Is that you know the
leaves fall, you know, in autumn, and they end up mulching
themselves with their deadleaves and then over a period of
(05:55):
time, then that tree comes backto life never was really dead,
but comes back to life in newand vivid ways and so we have a
connection to the natural worldand the spiritual sort of
revelation that Jesus showed us.
That is truth for us, and truthfor us as people who believe is
(06:16):
that God is real and able andgood and generous.
We take that truth in by faith.
We take that truth in by thecommunity of faith.
We take that truth in by theword of God, which we believe is
many things poetry, metaphor,you know, archaeology, lots of
(06:39):
different kinds of things.
So truth would be about an hourconversation, you know, just by
itself.
But what Jesus I think ispointing to his who is the
nature, what is the nature ofGod, and can you embrace all of
that now?
Also, Jesus has been with thesefolks for three years and so
he's sort of got a sense oftheir learning habits right and
(07:02):
their ability sort of tocomprehend a lot of the stuff
that he's wanting to talk tothem about, but don't miss the
big point.
The big point is is that whenit comes to this spiritual truth
, we need a guide, and so Jesussays you can depend on the
(07:22):
spirit of truth to be your guide.
So truth is also an aspect ofwho God is.
God is true, Right, so God isall truth.
You know, God is not justwisdom and all those sorts of
things.
We believe that God, in God'sself, in God's nature, is truth,
and we would say that God islove, and love is ultimately
(07:45):
right, the ground of ultimatereality.
That's what we would say, andso that would be truth would say
, and so that would be truth.
(08:28):
lot of confusion, or at least Idon't know.
I don't know if it'smisdirection, confusion, or
maybe somebody's onto somethingthat I'm just not sure of.
I feel like a lot of people areempowered to really go down
deep individually, which I thinkis part of it, and yet not the
full story.
I think we have what we havegiven to us by our birthright,
(08:49):
this discerning, contemplativething.
Within that the spirit doesdwell within us, and yet I don't
know that we listened to spiritjust by ourselves, but that it
is in with community.
No, I mean.
So what you're trying to do isyou're trying to point to a
truth about spirit, about spirit, right, you're trying to say
(09:12):
that spirit is dynamic and alivethrough community, right, and
is available to us throughcommunity, is not just a sole
personal project.
And so we would say that thatis accumulated wisdom, and we
would say it points to a truthabout the nature of spirit.
(09:35):
And, of course, matthew, mark,luke and John tell that story
out, right, jesus just doesn'tstay in the wilderness all by
himself, thinking beautifulthoughts, all by himself, right,
he comes and he lives.
One of the truths that we pointto, excuse me, one of the
truths that we point to can besummed up in the cross.
The cross has a horizontal axisand a vertical axis.
(09:58):
Not only is it the instrumentof shame and sort of heinous
death that the Roman Empire used, but we believe it also points
to a reality about the nature oflife with God that it is both
vertical and horizontal at thesame time.
So, yeah, you can go on amountain and think great
(10:19):
thoughts about God, and that'sgreat, but yet it has to be
lived out here on the horizontalplane that God and God's
fullness can be known Right.
So you know, I love when peopletell me yeah, man, I'm all for
the, for the Jesus thing.
It's just that Jesus's friendsI don't want to be involved with
(10:40):
, right, and like, I totally getthat.
And they say that this, I don'twant to go to church and I
don't want to be involved.
I get that.
The truth of the matter is isyou just can't think your way
into the kingdom of heaven,right, I mean, jesus comes as
spirit, as God, into flesh tolive among us.
We call that the incarnation.
(11:00):
We would say that is the livingout of a truth, right, that
this has to be lived out rightOn the ground.
You know, I like to say infingernail, dirty places with
people.
And so who was it?
That wonderful woman, dorothyDay, who said you only love God
as much as you sort of love theperson you hate the most?
(11:24):
Right, and so that's a truthabout the nature of God.
And so there's lots of pricklytruths about God.
You know where your treasure is.
There also is your heart.
Ouch, right, I mean, we got tothink about that.
You know, I heard a guy one timeget up in the pulpit.
(11:45):
I was sitting way in the backand he was preaching a sermon
about prayer and everybody hewas a good preacher and
everybody was sort of on theedge of their seat listening to
the guy.
And then he just sort ofstopped and said if the church
and if the world depended onyour prayers, where would the
church and the world be?
(12:05):
And I saw like a room of 200people collectively slink down
in their chairs, right.
So there is that thing that weare simultaneously hungry for to
a degree, and terribly afraidof at the same time, because
what we don't want about truthis we don't want to be revealed.
(12:27):
We don't want our foibles, ourfailures, our frailties to be
revealed, and truth is arevealer, right.
We don't want that aspect oftruth.
But also, truth sets us free,right?
I mean I think I read thatsomewhere in the Bible, right?
And so we're sort of snagged,we're sort of living on a fence
(12:49):
about all this sort of thing.
I heard another guy say you know, god, we love you, but we are
afraid to love you too much.
We're afraid to love you toomuch means is that there's some
part of us we want to and feellike we need to preserve and
even keep from God, right,rather than the truth of the
matter is, is that you've neverbeen more yourself?
(13:10):
Is that you've never been moreyourself than you are living a
faithful life with God?
Right?
And so we are this.
You know what's that wonderfuljoke about?
What's the difference between abig pickup truck and a Ferrari,
right?
Sports car capacity, right?
So we have a limited capacityfor truth because we want it, we
(13:36):
say we want it.
We're not sure we want it,we're afraid of it.
Mostly, we don't want anybodyto weaponize it against us
Certainly not.
And yet life with God, right,life with Jesus, life with his
words, life with his example,right, is like a level, you know
carpenter's tool, like a levelfor our lives, right.
(13:58):
And so one of the you know,let's get to the end part of
this, one of the greatindicators for us as we're
walking along with God in ourlife is our ability now to hear
and to handle truth, evenunflattering truth, about
ourselves.
You can go to Harvard and studyleadership and they will tell
(14:21):
you that people who have a lotof fragility cannot lead
effectively because they lackthe ability to interrogate their
own actions and motivations.
They can't see their owntriggers and vulnerabilities.
Therefore, their companies andthe work that they do sort of
prematurely plateaus.
(14:43):
So here we are now with the2,000-year-old wisdom from Jesus
and cutting-edge leadershipstudies from Harvard Kennedy
School now singing the same song.
So there's something about usthat we need to grow up Now.
The good news is, as Jesuspromised in this text in John 16
, the Spirit will guide you intoall truth, and that's what we
(15:06):
would call spiritual maturity iscan I get to the place where I
acknowledge that I am bothsinner and saint?
Can I get to the place where Ican acknowledge I am fearfully
and wonderfully made and I'm atthe same time frail?
Can I get to the place where Irealize that, for all of my
(15:29):
distinctions and achievements, Iam loved and valued just as
much as the drunk in the gutterin God's eyes?
I mean that's an amazinglyfreeing place to be finally to
get to eyes.
I mean that's an amazinglyfreeing place to be finally to
get to.
Is that I don't have to gin upany worth?
(15:50):
That's a truth that I'm alreadyworth everything in God's eyes,
and so is my neighbor.
Melissa (15:55):
Well, yes, yes, yes.
All of that and I'm going todumb it down a little bit,
Bishop, because you sounded verymature in everything that you
said, Because all I had the wordglaring in my face is ego, and
that's the problem and so myquestion is is how might we be
(16:17):
better?
Or how might we because truthand trust go hand in hand, right
?
Bishop Wright (16:21):
Yes, they do.
Melissa (16:22):
How might we better reveal God's truth, capital T,
without our own personal agendas, and actually trust the Spirit
to guide even other people intheir own communities and trust
them to understand what theSpirit is saying to them,
without trying to lead thewitness, if you will?
Bishop Wright (16:43):
Well, we have to start with the fact that this is
not to self-help society.
You know this podcast does notpoint ultimately that we're good
people.
This podcast, I hope, points tothe fact that we have an aid in
the Holy Spirit and, just likeJesus is saying so, I think if
we want to grow up I mean, I'vesaid this countless times St
Paul says this in 1 Corinthians13.
(17:03):
If we want to grow up right,maybe we ought to start with
prayer.
Lord, I realize the ways inwhich my behavior seem to be at
oddsges that I hold and the lackof forgiveness you know I.
(17:25):
You know I hold up.
You know I see how I live atodds with who you invite me to
be Lord, and so I see that now,lord, and I ask you to help me
to grow up right in the fullstature of Christ.
We're supposed to be growing upin the full stature of Christ,
not some arbitrary measurement,right, but Christ as we know him
(17:47):
in Matthew, mark, luke and John.
So to bring these stories intoour lives and then try to live
them, try to square up to themas much as we can, realizing
that nobody's perfect, that weall fall short, but to begin to
intentionally bring thosestories, bring the grace of the
Holy Spirit into our lives, tosay welcome.
I think that's where it is.
(18:09):
You know, one of the things Ilove about the AA community is
that they say you know, look, Irealize I have no power right
over this thing, right, and so Iknow I need help.
And yet Christians, you know,years after years, Sunday after
Sunday, sit down and act likethis is a self-help society.
And so what we do is we do adiscredit to the spirit, we do
(18:29):
all the fake church smile and wedo sort of the performance of
what I call religiousentertainment and all that sort
of stuff, and it's just notworth anything.
What's worth anything, andeverything is to say, is to
confess the ways in which wefall short.
And what if we can't see thoseways?
That's a good question too.
(18:50):
It might be even to say Lord,help me to see the ways if I
can't see them.
You talked about ego.
Sometimes ego has blinders andwe just can't see, we don't want
to see or we're too fragile tobe able to see.
A lot of us have had a lot oftrouble, a lot of up and downs,
a lot of family of origin issues, all kinds of trauma in our
(19:11):
lives, and so to begin to pullback that sort of stuff, we feel
very vulnerable, we feel veryfragile, and so that becomes an
impediment to a real, deep andabiding relationship with Christ
.
And so the truth is is thatit's going to take time, it's a
process, right, but we can getstarted today, if we want to, by
(19:32):
simply saying Lord, here I am,I'm made in your image.
I know that, and yet I want toknow you more and I want to make
more room in my heart for yourtruth.
So you know that may be one ofthe most dangerous prayers that
we could ever pray, you know, isto say Lord, I think I'm ready
now to integrate you know allthat.
(19:52):
I am right as a, as anopportunity to worship you.
Melissa (19:57):
Love it, Love it.
Bishop, thank you so much forbringing bringing that truth for
us and listeners.
We're grateful to you fortuning into For People.
You can follow us on Instagramand Facebook at Bishop Rob
Wright, or by visiting www.
forpeople.
digital.
Please subscribe, leave areview and we'll be back with
you next week.
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