June 3, 2025 • 63 mins
What if the most dangerous day in your child's life could be made safer through simple knowledge and preparation? After 21 years as a medical malpractice attorney specializing in birth trauma cases, Gina Mundy is pulling back the curtain on preventable childbirth mistakes in this eye-opening conversation.
Mundy reveals the stark reality that many parents don't realize they are the ultimate decision-makers during labor and delivery. Every intervention, from Pitocin induction to C-sections, is technically a recommendation that parents can accept or decline. This revelation comes alongside her identification of recurring patterns in birth injury cases that prompted her to write "A Parent's Guide to a Safer Childbirth" and launch a podcast dedicated to preventing these tragedies before they happen.
The discussion takes an honest turn when Mundy shares her struggles balancing her mission-driven work with motherhood. Her touching story about reconnecting with her 10-year-old son during a camping trip, where he initially told her the "World's Best Mom" cup didn't apply to her, resonates deeply with any parent trying to juggle meaningful work with family life. By the trip's end, he changed his mind, illustrating how intentional, undistracted time can transform parent-child relationships.
For parents considering their birth options, Mundy offers valuable context about the differences between hospital births, birthing centers, and home births. Rather than advocating for one approach, she emphasizes the importance of preparation and informed decision-making regardless of setting. Her perspective is particularly valuable given her unique position of seeing what goes wrong when parents aren't adequately prepared.
Whether you're planning a family, expecting a baby, or simply interested in healthcare advocacy, this conversation offers rare insights from someone who's witnessed the aftermath of childbirth gone wrong, and is now dedicated to preventing these outcomes. Subscribe to For Shxtty Moms now and join our community of parents committed to doing their best, even when perfect isn't possible.
⏰ Chapter Markers ⏰
0:00 - Introduction to Gina Mundy
5:29 - Common Pitfalls in Childbirth
11:42 - Being Your Own Advocate
20:08 - Juggling Career and Motherhood
34:40 - Reconnecting with Kids Amid Busyness
51:38 - Family Impact of Birth Trauma Cases
59:27 - Final Thoughts and Resources
➣ For Guest Appearances, Sponsorship & Bookings: shxtmom@gmail.com
➣ Visit our official website: https://www.ForShxttyMoms.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This episode of FSM is brought to you by Fidelity
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(00:20):
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If you would like to sponsor anepisode of FSM, email us at
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That's S-H-X-T-M-O-M atgmailcom.
(00:42):
M-o-m at gmailcom.
It's time to put the kids to bed, so y'all get ready for another
episode of For Shitty Moms.
All right, welcome back toanother episode of FSM.
I'm your host, dr DeLoren, andtoday we have a very special
(01:03):
guest joining us.
As you all know, here at FSM welike to unpack all things
relating to motherhood,parenting challenges and the
unique strategies that allowmoms to improve their overall
parenting experiences.
Today's guest is going to helpus do just that.
Now, today's episode isbeneficial to all parents, not
(01:27):
just moms, so you may want totake notes as you listen.
Without any further ado, I'dlike to introduce Gina Mundy to
the show.
Gina is a medical malpracticeattorney specializing in birth
trauma and injury.
Gina is also a mom, wife andthe best-selling author of A
(01:51):
Parent's Guide to a SaferChildbirth.
Gina, welcome to the show andthanks for joining us.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Thank you for having me, DeLoren.
I am very excited to be heretoday and talk to you more.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Lauren, I am very excited to be here today and
talk to you more Likewise Nowwith your intro.
Did I get everything right?
Is there anything that you needto correct?
Is that your correct title?
Go ahead and take us throughyour title, your credentials,
your background and what it isthat you do.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yeah, no, I think you got it right.
So basically, I've been anattorney specializing in
childbirth cases for right now,21 years.
And just so your audienceunderstands what that is, that
basically these are casesinvolving the birth of a baby
and there's a complication, amistake baby is not born healthy
, baby may pass, or mom may passaway during childbirth.
(02:44):
So as the attorney, I come in,find out what happened, what
went wrong, why, moreimportantly, what should have
been done?
So mom around to raise her baby, or baby born healthy?
And those questions have takenme across the United States many
times.
And then, about 19 years, deepinto my profession, I was
stopped in my tracks.
Basically, we had a near familytragic event during the birth
(03:07):
of a baby in my family and I waslike, wait a minute, you know,
based upon what I know in thisfield, I'm like I you know.
Basically, you know there arereoccurring issues, are
reoccurring mistakes, and I cantell you how I would prepare my
kids for childbirth iscompletely different than how
you know I would prepare my kidsfor childbirth is completely
different than how you knownormal family would prepare for
(03:28):
childbirth.
So I started to write down youknow, these common issues,
common facts, things that wantedmy kids to know about
childbirth, and basicallyfigured out that this is
information that could helpfamilies all around the world.
So then, in June 2023, Ipublished my book, like you just
said, I started then speakingaround the world.
(03:48):
More recently I started my ownpodcast, but basically the
bottom line is, instead ofgetting involved in the
aftermath of something goingwrong, I'm trying to get
involved before childbirth tohelp families just prevent the
complications, mistakes thatI've seen, and have a healthy
baby Cause.
I'll tell you, the hardest partof my job is the day I sit down
with the families and, you know, talk about the day their baby
(04:09):
was born.
So today, still a partner in mylaw firm, 21 years deep into it
, still working on my baby cases, but my jam is more trying to
get the information out therebeforehand.
Again, to you know, avoid, soparents can avoid what I see.
Okay, I think that was it.
Yeah, so the pot.
Oh, my podcast is called.
So I just heard my podcast,right?
(04:30):
hey, sorry, it's my dogs uh sopodcast is called the childbirth
attorney with Gina Mundy.
Um, it's on YouTube and thenSpotify and all the other stuff.
I actually I didn't really havetime for it, but I had a
producer reach out so I'm justsupposed to talk on it, which is
so not true.
There's so much in a podcastyou would know.
(04:52):
So anybody, anybody expecting ababy or whatever, it's
obviously again getting thisinformation out, making sure you
know people have healthy babies, because here's the deal I deal
with the preventable mistakes.
So know what?
I know they're good to go there, you know they're.
They're not going to see what Isee.
And again, all of that stuff isin my book.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Okay, now in your book do you, I know, like the
birthing centers, that hasbecome really popular.
So do you see a difference in,I guess, preventable mistakes
and hospitals versus birthingcenters?
Is that something you cover?
I feel like is becomingincreasingly popular, that
(05:39):
people are kind of turning tohome births and birthing centers
for that reason.
So is there really likeinformation out there saying
that one is safer than the other?
Speaker 2 (05:51):
You are so smart, boom, hit it on the nose.
That is the um.
Where everybody's going is.
I know two people right nowdoing home births and one doing
a birthing center, two of them,two people, abdullah's, and
whatnot, but yeah, there'sdefinitely a huge shift that I
have been seeing.
So here's the deal with thebaby cases the most common issue
(06:15):
in the cases is the drugPitocin.
Pitocin induces mom's labor.
So now, 39 weeks, you get anelective induction, all that
stuff.
Here's the deal.
You're not getting that at abirthing center.
Birthing center is not going tolet you do a Pitocin induction,
um, the um.
You have to go into a hospitalfor that Um.
And then same thing with a homebirth.
(06:37):
You're not going to deal withum, you know Pitocin, obviously,
during a home birth.
So if there's a complication,if there's a mistake, baby's not
born healthy.
The number one, again, mostcommon fact Pitocin.
What's the flip side of that?
Natural, spontaneous vaginalbirth, skip, skip the drugs.
(06:57):
So that is, you know, that ishome birth, that is the birthing
centers.
They want more of an allnatural approach.
So in that respect, yeah,you're, you're definitely going
to, you know, be able.
I think, obviously, if Pitocinis not involved, there's less
(07:20):
chance of something going, youknow going wrong, due again due
to a mistake or, you know, acomplication.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Okay, and that's.
That's good to know.
I know my husband and I we weredoing some family planning and
that's part of the reason why wedelayed for such a long time
when I had my son around like 23.
So you don't know what youdon't know and you kind of just
go in there First time mom,first time dad, and you just
(07:53):
follow your doctor's lead andyou don't really know.
And it wasn't until I got alittle older and I started to
understand all of the risksassociated with childbirth and
that really made me delay.
Because you know you thinkabout growing your family but
then you also think about therisk that you take just trying
(08:14):
to get through labor anddelivery.
So I can say for me personally,I know my decision.
I was I had like spinal surgery,so I'm kind of limited in what
I cannot do when it comes tochildbirth and that wasn't even
brought to my attention untilmaybe five weeks before my due
(08:34):
date.
It just so happens theanesthesiologist was there when
we were doing the tour and wegot to talking and no one ever
said anything about me havingspinal surgery and how you know
the epidurals that usually takeplace.
That's not really an option forme and I had the spinal surgery
when I was a kid so it neverdawned on me to even think about
(08:58):
it or how it would impact me inchildbirth.
So it kind of forced my husbandand I to look into more natural
and homeopathic options.
Because for me, if somethingwere to go wrong, they were like
, oh, we'll just put you under,like they'll go old school.
And I'm asking my mom, likewhat is old school?
And she's like, oh, they'regoing to put you to sleep.
(09:20):
That's how they did it back inthe day.
So was like, oh, that doesn'tsound fun and I only have five
weeks left.
And uh, no, birthing center atthe time would even take me.
So a doula birthing center,that wasn't an option.
I was too far along in thepregnancy, so just going through
(09:41):
those things and luckilyeverything worked out through
labor and delivery.
But there were a few timeswhere the doctor wanted to do
something.
I didn't really want to do it.
And what do you do?
We're here now, so do you haveany recommendations for anyone,
like, when they're in thehospital?
(10:02):
Do they even have options likethat?
What's the best course ofaction to take?
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Oh yeah, listen, you got to prepare for childbirth
like you did and then that helpsyou make those good decisions.
Here's the deal Mom's thedecision maker during labor and
delivery, the delivery team.
No matter how they talk to youI know how some doctors talk it
sounds like they're telling yousomething.
They're not.
Everything is a recommendation,so you prepare, kind of like
(10:30):
you.
It sounds like you prepared, sothey would when they would talk
to you on let's do this orlet's do that.
I'm not sure exactly what it is, but you have the knowledge
base to be like.
I'm good and you know what itsounds like.
You had a healthy baby, so very, very important to get ready.
You know chapter one of my book.
It goes over the lessons fromthe baby cases.
(10:50):
It's on my website for free.
Everybody should look at itbecause as a lesson you can
learn from the past to preventit from happening in the future.
And when I say lessons from thebaby cases, it's the lessons
from the families, the lessonsfrom the delivery team, the
medical experts.
You know, really, on what youneed to know Again,
understanding that you know youare the decision maker and
(11:13):
understanding the importance ofyou know getting ready and
preparing for childbirth.
And listen, I don't just say,okay, this is a lesson, good
luck.
No, every subsequent lesson isthat every I'm sorry, every
lesson is a subsequent chapter.
So chapter two is going to goover.
You know things that you reallyneed to know again to give you
(11:33):
a good foundation to make gooddecisions during labor.
Now, something with spinalsurgery that's so unique, that's
not going to be somethingthat's in my book, but there's a
lot of other information thatwould help guide you and then so
, okay, wait a minute, I knowall of this stuff now, and this
is not the stuff you're going tofind in what to expect when
you're expecting, or anythingthat I find important.
(11:55):
When I'm looking at a new casethat comes in and I'm like this,
good care, bad care, this,these are the things I rely on,
but it would give you again agood foundation.
And then again, you're going to, because of the previous spinal
surgery, maybe do some newother research.
Talk to somebody.
It sounds like they reallyshould have like referred you to
like MFM or something.
(12:18):
Yeah, like a specialist orsomething, just to make sure you
knew all your options.
That's kind of you know I'm I'msurprised that no one gave you
more options.
That's actually kind ofconcerning, because you know if
there was an emergency situationor you did need an like, that
is like you know it's right,it's happening.
It's it's kind of late in thegame, so you get really lucky
(12:39):
during your tour where you ranan anesthesiologist.
You're extremely lucky and thathelped you.
I think probably again, preparemore, get your options and
whatnot.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Absolutely.
I think mentally I was fineBecause my goal was I don't want
to feel any pain, just give methat epidural.
Like, as long as I got thatepidural, I heard it worked
wonders, I heard it was great.
I heard it makes that labor anddelivery experience better and
(13:15):
more enjoyable for the moms.
So five weeks learning that?
That is not an option for me.
I think the anesthesiologistkind of joked around like, oh
don't worry, I'm going to do mybest and I'm going to get in
there.
I'm going to try to get inthere.
But she was referring to myspine and I'm, like as many
(13:36):
books as possible to see youknow what are my options.
And luckily my husband was rightthere with me.
So we read like a lot of bookson acupressure and just
(13:59):
alternative medicine, thingsthat you can do to make the
labor delivery progress, what todo if you stall, and pain
management.
That was my biggest fear and itwas not a good situation to be
in.
We only had five weeks left andthen my son was born, maybe
(14:21):
like two weeks early.
My son was born maybe like twoweeks early.
So yeah, we didn't have a lotof time, but luckily I went out
that same day.
I bought books and we just kindof practiced like honey.
The book says you got to pushhere and push there during a
contraction and I have to dothis, and so that's what we we
(14:48):
did for pain management.
But everyone doesn't have thatoption.
So I think what you're doing isamazing, because in that
situation that day leaving thetour from the hospital, you
really do feel helpless.
And then you start to hear,like I'm asking different people
well, what if they tell me todo something?
And I don't want to do it, youknow?
And we were told like, oh well,they can get a court order.
(15:09):
So how likely is that to happen?
Is that okay?
Whatever, what are you gonnawait for?
Speaker 2 (15:15):
the job get.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
No, okay, well, no sorry okay, well, that that's
pretty much what we were telling.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Over.
A matter like that takes timeand just I mean when you're
making decisions duringchildbirth.
So getting a court order takesa lot of time, a lot of effort.
A judge's signature afterpeople go and explain everything
to the judge, and then there'sa certain criteria.
(15:48):
I mean they really need to be.
You know, your decision makinghas to be endangering your baby,
and so what?
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Okay.
Well, that makes me feel goodbecause you do have a sense of
okay, we're here now and youjust have to listen to what
they're telling you.
So it's nice to hear from Ifeel, like an expert.
Right, it's nice to hear froman expert that you do have
choices.
(16:19):
And, like I said, luckily, mydoctor.
He was very nonchalant becausemy contractions stopped, my son
stopped.
Everything just kind of stalled.
And he was like OK, you're afirst time mom, I can tell you
want to do things your way.
And he was like I'm going tolet you guys do things your way,
(16:42):
I'm going to go.
He was like I don't think thebaby's coming today, but I'm
monitoring everything.
I guess they have everything ontheir phones now through the
apps.
And he was like I'll be back,get some rest.
I don't think that baby'scoming today.
And get some rest was probablythe best advice that he gave me,
(17:04):
because, looking back now, Idon't think I would have made it
Like we went to sleep and Iprobably arrived around two
o'clock in the afternoon.
We didn't have my son untilaround 7am the next day.
So get some sleep, get somerest.
That was the best advice,because there's no way without
(17:26):
any like pain meds or anything,I don't think I would have been
able to push my son out.
You know, I just don't think Iwould have made it.
And I hear that from a lot ofmoms Like it's exhausting, it's
excruciating.
A lot of moms are like, oh, Ithought I was going to pass out.
A lot of moms were like, oh, Ithought I was going to pass out.
And I think getting some sleep,getting some rest, gave me just
(17:47):
enough energy to like getthrough the actual laboring part
of it.
So, knowing all of that andreflecting on my experience now
that I'm older, I'm like I justfelt like there were a lot of
chances and there were a lot ofrisks associated with it, but at
(18:08):
the time I didn't know.
So I think it's great that youhave created a resource for
people who are doing theirfamily planning or if they're
already expecting and need alittle more guidance.
It's amazing that you'vecreated a guide to help families
through it, because I was eventelling my husband like, hey, if
(18:29):
something happens, this isgonna fall on you, like if I
can't make any more decisions,they're gonna look to you to
make some decisions and I Idon't know.
We were both kind of like okay,like oh shit, just that real,
because they're not gonna go tomy mom, you know they're not
gonna go to my mom.
They're gonna ask him.
(18:49):
So I think it's amazing and Ido think for sure we are gonna
go through that book togetherbefore we do like any uh, family
planning or finalize anydecisions.
We are definitely gonna gothrough it ourselves just to
have that knowledge and thatinformation because, like I said
, we got lucky and I know a lotof people they don't get lucky.
(19:12):
So thank you for making thatresource for everyone.
And where?
Like, is this something onamazon?
Do you have it on your website?
Speaker 2 (19:22):
yeah, so the default is always gina mundycom,
g-i-n-a-m-u-n-d-ycom again.
That's where I have chapter oneagain.
Everybody should really read,um, and then also amazon is the
easiest place to find it.
Okay, you just type gina mundyeven in the search bar safer
childbirth, anything like that.
It comes up.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Okay you're funny, though, you said so in my book.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
I literally I said something in my book but then I
was like dash, it just got real.
You just said that my book isnot swearing.
So that's like the only time Iswear in my book and it just
happened to be the same exactthing that you just said.
But no comment on your doctor.
I really like your doctor'sapproach about resting and
(20:07):
whatnot.
You know, sometimes doctors, Ithink, try to hurry up the
situation and that's where theycan get into trouble.
So the fact that he was likerest, I'm going to watch.
So he's watching the baby'sheart rate.
Okay, so you know, think aboutit.
You know when mom's in laborthere's two patients.
You mom, you're easy Doctor cantalk to you, you can report if
(20:29):
you have pain somewhere, theycan physically assess you and so
forth.
They can, you know, afterasking you questions and you
answer and make a diagnosis, aplan.
Life's great, baby's muchdifferent.
You know, baby's inside you andthe best way to figure out how
your baby is doing during laboris their heart rate and that's
why it graphs next to your bedat the nurse's station, the
(20:50):
doctor's area, on their phone.
So you know, he seemed like no,I'm going to check keep an eye
on the baby's heart rate, whichis extremely important because
some doctors don't look at thebaby's heart rate unless they're
called.
But yeah, the fact that he'slike chill out, I'll keep an eye
on the heart rate.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
I'm like yes, yeah, he was pretty hot.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Yeah, that makes me happy.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Okay, so you have a lot on your plate.
Your career.
You're an author, you are doingyour podcast.
Now you are doing interviewsfor other podcasts.
How in the world are youjuggling all of that along with
(21:36):
family and just maintaining yourown mental health self-care?
What does that look like foryou?
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Yeah, so I have three kids.
One is 21, is almost 16.
And the two older ones aregirls.
And then I have my little man.
He's 10.
Oh, wow, I also have twoSheltie dogs, two bunnies, a
beta fish that won't die.
So I just looked at its water.
(22:05):
It's murky.
It lives in like murky water.
It's the 10 year olds, right,and so it lives in like murky
water.
I'm like I don't know how it'salive.
It's hard, I'll tell you.
You know, my house is adisaster.
You know, I was hoping myteenage girls are about 20 and
16, but, you know, maybe helpout a little bit more around the
(22:26):
house or whatever, but no, myhouse is pretty unorganized,
pretty dirty right now.
Um, I'll tell you, though, ittook 14 months to write my book
and thousands of hours, whilestill, you know, being a partner
in a law firm and all that.
That was really hard.
So I get up.
My schedule changed a lot.
(22:47):
I get up at 3am.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Um, yeah, I get up before the world wakes up.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Um, that's been part of my secret, um, but what's the
flip side of that?
You got to go to bed at areasonable time.
I can't stay up till nine or 10at night, and if I do, you
should, it's like everybody sawa ghost.
If I'm up at nine, you know, Ijust want to get a shirt that
says boo if I'm like, that's howthey look at me.
But so, basically, you know Ihad to adjust my, my schedule.
(23:12):
So then I basically feedanimals, dogs, kids, make dinner
, clean up and, you know, try tobe in bed by seven If it's any
later.
I got to take a nap around noonjust to get through the, you
know, second half of.
Oh, but yeah, changing changingthe schedule was probably the
biggest thing.
My house, yep, like I said, Iwas on a zone to organize my
(23:36):
social life.
That's out the door, that's out.
So you know, and it's funnybecause I thought when I
published my book my life wouldgo back to normal, being a
partner in a law firm and a momof three.
No, it's, it's like worse.
So, but hold on, I'll tell you,it's hard because getting on
podcasts and even talking aboutmy book and helping families
(23:59):
like that's my jam, that's whatI want to do.
Like when I am on a show, I amso excited to talk.
You know, when I have to go domy partner in a law firm thing
and talk about, you know, rightbefore this, I had a meeting and
I have to talk about, okay,what happened to this baby?
Why is this baby a brain damage?
You know, I'm like, oh, youknow, a couple of days ago I had
(24:21):
to talk to a mom, you know,whose baby died after birth and
you know you get into weirdstuff like cremation and all
this, and I'm just like, oh, mygoodness.
And then you know and this isactually very normal but she
wears there's a big necklace andthe baby's inside her necklace.
Their heart and minds the baby.
(24:41):
The mom's heart doesn'tunderstand that baby's not there
.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
And you know it's so hard listening to this stuff.
So that's, you know, trust me.
After.
That's why, after 19 years oflistening to these families, I'm
like, all right, I got to dosomething.
So you know it's hard because Ido, but I'm loving it and I
know I'm helping families andthere's so many people out there
appreciative.
So you know I've been cuttingback a little bit more, you know
(25:07):
, at work.
But then, out there, you know,trying to do this, but yeah, no,
and then the kids have taken ahit peer my parenting, but my
husband so I'm married okay, I'mmarried to a busy business
owner.
When I started writing my bookkind of chilled out on that a
little bit.
So he really, you know, we kindof I wouldn't say switched
(25:31):
roles.
He's always been a really gooddad, but he's definitely more
active in their lives right nowthan me.
Um, again, because you know I'mout there doing a bunch of
things.
So him taking moreresponsibility and whatnot has
really helped.
So but yeah, juggling it, yeahit's not fun, I mean, but you
(25:54):
gotta do it so do you make timefor yourself at all?
Speaker 1 (25:57):
what do you do for yourself?
Speaker 2 (26:00):
oh, yeah, you know, I did learn that I wish I would
have done this earlier in life.
Um, but no, I do take time formyself.
That is one thing.
So, um, I work out, usuallybetween 5 am or 6 am.
You're going to see me at thegym, kind of, you know, getting
ready for my day mentally, orwhatnot.
First Saturday of every month Iget my massage.
(26:23):
Yeah, so, and I'm like, ok,well, that's it.
Yes, I work out and I, oh, andthe weekends I enjoy some wine.
Ok, but yeah, I mean, I wouldsay those are things.
Oh, you know what else I do.
This has been great.
You're still young, even thoughyou keep trying to tell me
you're older.
I'm 48.
(26:46):
Okay, I'm 48.
But IVs I get IVs every coupleweeks that have like all of
these vitamins and all of thisstuff, and then they'll give me
like a shot of like glutathione.
But that I remember, when Ireleased my book, the lady who
(27:09):
owns the IV clinic where I liveshe is an author and owned a
publishing company, you knowback in the day or whatnot she's
like you're going to need an IVevery two weeks.
And I'm like, okay, I'm like,are you paying, by the way?
Cause they're not.
Um, nope, there's shit.
I needed an IV every two weeksand literally I could feel
(27:32):
myself.
You know, when I go past twoweeks now I'm dragging, so yeah,
so I would say IVs, massages,and then I work out.
And I don't work out really tokeep in shape.
It's definitely mental, okay.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Gotcha, and that's good.
I love that you found something.
All of it sounds enjoyable.
Sometimes you get like theseself-care ideas or suggestions
and it's like I don't want to dothat.
That this is now I'm morestressed out because I don't
want to do that.
(28:09):
But yeah, I've tried a coupleof the IVs myself.
A girlfriend of mine kind ofput me on to them um and I agree
.
Um, we have what is that placecalled?
We have like allure here, likean allure spa clinic here.
(28:29):
So definitely the vitamin c.
Um, I feel like I feel thebiggest difference with the
vitamin C.
I tried a couple of them forjust like hydration, with the
different B vitamins in there,and they didn't do too much.
But for whatever reason, once Ileft, once I got the vitamin C
(28:51):
treatment when I left from there, I was like all right, let's
knock this out.
So I agree with you there, thatdefinitely helps Definitely.
I see a difference with justdrinking the water and I've been
trying out this chlorophyll, sothe green water, but it's good
(29:13):
for like the inflammation, um,and I feel like a lot of that
from the processed foods orsalty foods or you know, just
the crazy stuff that we may eator drink throughout the day.
I was definitely hooked onthose Red Bulls and energy
drinks so.
I kind of shifted, I got alittle scared like I'm getting
(29:34):
older now, like after 35, I'mlike, let me put those down.
So I kind of traded the IVs,the vitamins, and I traded the
chlorophyll water for the RedBull.
So I kind of swapped those outand just for the listeners,
because we are like a behaviorchange podcast.
(29:57):
I'm a behavior analyst, soeverything that we are talking
about today we're talking aboutreplacement behaviors.
Typically, when we're goinginto behavior modification,
really we're identifying thebehaviors that we may not like
or risky behaviors.
We're kind of identifying thoseand then okay, what can we
(30:21):
replace it with to get theoutcome that we want?
So a lot of times people engagein behavior change and they
don't really know it andbehavior change and they don't
really know it.
So it makes it kind of hard tostick to something when you
don't necessarily know what itis that you're doing right.
But for you you've kind ofalready listed, you've given the
(30:43):
listeners a bunch of ideas ofreplacement behaviors and the
your replacement behaviors soundreally nice.
They sound really good and thatfeeds into what we feel like
this is good for them.
But sometimes you just can'tstick to it because it may not
(31:19):
be that enjoyable.
So, um and I do hear a lot ofmoms say the same thing,
especially, I don't know, thereally, really busy moms.
They have let go of the wholelike maintaining the household.
I don't know if it's like timethat has gone by, but I know
(31:39):
when I grew up that was a thing.
Every Saturday morning you getup and you clean that house from
top to bottom and it seems likethe more moms that I interview
they are just outright with ithey, my house is a mess.
I don't even do that and I'mlike, oh okay.
(31:59):
I shouldn't feel so guiltyanymore because the laundry is
like oh, the struggle is real,with the laundry especially.
So it's nice to hear and youdon't sound stressed out at all
with everything that you'rejuggling between the career um,
now you're more so anentrepreneur and doing your own
(32:23):
thing and creating a lane foryourself, and you still have to
take care of your family and Iknow the listeners can't see you
, but you look cool as acucumber, like, so you're
awesome.
I love that because I feel likeI'm just surrounded by everyone
who's trying to do it all themoms.
(32:46):
They're trying to do it all andthey are high, strong, myself
included.
And but this process has taughtme, like, why are you trying to
do it all?
That's not fun, it's it's noteven enjoyable.
So it's nice to see that youhave identified, like, what
works for you and what's notgoing to work for you, and it is
(33:10):
what it is.
I tell a lot of parents that Ido parent coaching as well, and
if you can't sustain somethingI'm starting to tell a lot more
parents then don't bother Ifit's going to stress you out.
If that's not something you canjust maintain and incorporate
into your daily routine, let itgo.
Don't even bother go, don'teven bother.
(33:37):
I know a lot of moms arestressed out about their kids
and certain things their kidsare doing and certain things
that their kids are not doing.
But I've been telling the moms,hey, if you can't coach them
through it and teach them andcorrect them every single time
until they got it on their own,don't even bother bringing it up
and mentioning it to them,because it's going to become
(33:57):
harder to sustain that behavior.
So you're kind of doing thatalready on your own and I love
to hear that.
So how would you describeyourself as a mom?
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Oh wow, I know, I saw that question coming.
Uh, uh, so that's interesting.
Could do better, probably, um,in terms of mom thing.
So, um, you know it wasinteresting.
I, I wanted to take more ofthis.
Basically, it's like family andfriends had a little bit of
(34:32):
intervention with me.
Like, gina, you got to stopworking.
You know you need to take sometime off, You're going to go
cuckoo and um, so I, at thatpoint I'm like, all right, I'm
not going to work that much thissummer, which is a joke right
now, where I'm working just asmuch.
So the only way to get away fromit, we do have a camper and I
love camping, um, so last week Itook my son camping.
(34:55):
He's 10.
So, yeah, and this ties in withhow do you see yourself as a
mom?
This was a huge turning point.
It was literally last week.
So, anyway, so bear with me,but anyway we, uh, we hit the
camp store and, um, there weretwo cups and one of the cups the
first cup said world's best mom, pentwater Michigan, and this
(35:18):
is right when we arrived, andthen the cup next to it just
said Pentwater Michigan.
And my 10 year old looks at thecup that says world's best mom,
pentwater Michigan, and goes,mom, this cup does not apply to
you.
So if you want to buy one ofthe cups, you have to buy
Pentwater Michigan.
And I'm like my heart dropsright Cause I've taken the whole
(35:39):
week off work.
It's just him and I and that'swhat he thinks of me and I'm
like you gotta be kidding me.
So I mean, he's a very directkid.
He very like he says it how itis no fluff ever.
So I'm like, okay, like hedidn't even have to say that.
He could have just kept it tohimself, but he obviously was
trying to tell me something.
(36:00):
So that week I'll tell you hewas like camping with the
energizer bunny and we and I'mlike, all right, I got this.
And uh, we did everything.
We biked, we played frisbee inthe water, we played baseball.
So he's a pitcher for hisbaseball team, so I let him
(36:20):
pitch to me for hours on end.
We just we did everything.
So we come to the last day ofcamping and basically I wouldn't
say no to anything.
So he'd be like, can we go todinner?
I'm like, sure, can we go tothe candy shop?
Sure, you know, or whatever.
I mean he doesn't requestanything crazy.
So we have to go back to thecamp store because he has bought
(36:46):
in sunglasses and they broke.
So we go back to the camp storeand he walks back over to the
cups and he's like okay, mom,well, after this week, if you
want to buy world's greatest momcup, that's fine, it now
applies to you.
And I'm like oh, thank you, youknow.
But before that, obviously Irealized, um, that you know I I
(37:12):
wasn't spending enough time withhim.
I mean, he's 10.
And I had also asked himnumerous times like, hey, do you
want to bring a friend up?
And he's like no, like you workall the time.
I just want to see you, I justwant to hang out with you.
And he's a pretty social kid.
So I'm like okay, but yeah.
So how do I describe Yep, andyou definitely need to spend
(37:37):
some more time with my kids.
But I'll tell you, we got backfrom that camping trip and I
leave to go to the store orsomething.
He'd be like okay, mom, loveyou.
Like he hasn't said that inyears.
You know it's always me saying,all right, liam, love you.
And he'd be like love you too,mom, that's his thing, right?
(38:00):
So this time it was like hetook initiative after the
camping trip and all that stuff.
So yeah, so, as a mom,definitely need to spend some
more time with the kiddos andyou know, just make sure you
know they're just young ones, uh, so yeah, that's probably my
description.
So I'm, I'm trying, okay, andyou know what, so I'm trying,
okay, and you know what.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
That's exactly what the show is about.
Definitely no mom shaming goeson here whatsoever, and we're
all trying.
So with the name.
I came up with the name because, just like you, I realized I'm
a little too busy.
It's just like you know what.
I can't be the only one, right,but it seems like there's so
(38:42):
little time to do everythingthat you need to do as a mom and
mainly it's you know to providefor your family, to give
yourself a quality of life thatyou want.
But there are so many demandsout there it's almost impossible
to do it all.
And I feel like when I wasgrowing up, my mom kind of did
(39:04):
everything in my eyes and I'mlike how the heck did she do
that?
Like?
this is nuts, like now that I'ma mom, I'm like, okay, I'm just
not doing that, this is nuts.
Like, now that I'm a mom, I'mlike, okay, I'm, I'm just not
doing that, this is nuts.
So, even cooking dinner everyday three times a week, like
that, that's not happening in myreality.
(39:24):
That's not realistic.
And I used to be like, oh, Iguess I'm going to be a shitty
mom today, cause I'm like no,we're gonna get some chick-fil-a
, we're gonna call it a day andthat's gonna be it.
We'll try again tomorrow.
Um, so there are things that Ialways beat myself up about,
(39:45):
until I start talking to othermoms who don't really beat
themselves up about it anymore.
It is, it is, it is right,they're unapologetic about it.
And I had a guest on the showwho was like hey, as a parent,
when she gets to that point,it's like all right, what's the
(40:06):
next best thing that I can doright now?
And after that, everything else, she kind of lets go.
So, with all the experiencesthat you have as a parent, what
is the best advice that you'vereceived as a mom?
Speaker 2 (40:25):
Be patient.
But I think that goes in handin hand with, you know, high
stress job, you know working allthe time.
You know you're just more.
I think you're just more onedge.
I mean, I think about it,camping I was so chill, I was
like different.
And then after camping I wasdifferent for a little bit until
(40:47):
I realized how far behind I got.
And you know, and not only that, I'm leaving next week, before
the July week.
So it's like I'm in this weekand I'm just like you know.
So, yes, I might be a littlemore high stress, which patient
seems to go out the window.
So I'll be like, okay, remember, be patient.
(41:09):
Kids, you know only young onceand so forth.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
But yeah, just being patient so a lot of the
questions you've kind of touchedon, so I'm not going to go
through all of them, because youkind of answered them with some
of your explanations.
So cool, what advice.
And this is kind of the thesame thing.
So what are some of the mostrewarding experiences that
(41:35):
you've had with your kiddos,with everything that you have
going on, what are some of themore rewarding experiences that
you've had as a mom?
Speaker 2 (41:49):
For instance, mother's Day, when we're all
together, my family knows theyhave my undivided attention and
we just have like a great timeor even like camping.
You know I spent the week withmy son.
We were able to kind of rebounda little bit and like just like
, like I said, you know I'mleaving and he's like, okay,
(42:09):
love you mom.
Or he gives me a hug or youknow he was, you know like kind
of like, oh, I'm mom.
Or he gives me a hug, or youknow he was, you know like kind
of like, oh, I'm 10.
Don't touch me, you knowwhatever.
Like don't hug me or give me akiss in front of my friends or
whatever.
But I dropped him off atbasketball camp a couple of days
ago and I totally hugged andkissed him and he was like he
was okay.
I'm like, oh, my goodness, Ihugged and kissed my 10 year old
(42:29):
is everything okay.
But you know we had just bondedand we were, you know, so tight
.
But, um, you know I think it istoo just.
You know I took that time, I puteverything aside.
He was my everything for thatweek and then getting back and
going back into everything.
You know I definitely this pastweek have been more like are
(42:52):
you hungry?
Because he has basketball campin the morning but he's home, so
it's like do you need anything?
You know I was more attentiveto him versus hiding in my
office, working as fast as I can, you know, kind of the mindset
that maybe some of this reallycan wait and whatnot.
So but yeah, just the effectsof last week and what it's done
(43:17):
to our relationship it was Idon't know.
It opened my eyes and it'sdefinitely kind of moving
forward trying to keep that inmind.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
And that's awesome that you gave yourself the
opportunity to unplug andreconnect.
I think in a perfect world ifwe could do that more often.
We would.
We know it's good, but we don'talways do it or we tell
ourselves we don't have time.
What do you say to yourself toget through it?
(43:50):
What do you?
Speaker 2 (43:51):
say to yourself to get through it, I'll do better.
Like yeah, I mean these days,you have to understand.
I mean my time's so limited.
You know I went out with one ofmy friends.
That was a couple of weeks agonow.
It was a Friday afternoon andjust my kids are like, well, we
(44:15):
haven't seen you all week.
What do you mean?
You're going out with yourfriend and I'm like, okay, I
never go out with my friends.
But you know, and I know, mylittle man wanted to watch a
movie and I'm like I'll be back,but I didn't get.
You know, I go to bed so early.
I did not get back in time towatch a movie or whatnot.
So you know it's just trying to.
When I do something, you knowit's hard, cause I'm kind of
(44:38):
like I have to see my friendstoo.
Like I told you, I asked mysocial life, so I hadn't seen
this person in months.
And not only that.
You know somebody who had beenreaching out like can we do
something?
Can we do something?
Can we do something?
You know, you know somebody whohad been reaching out like can
we do something?
Can we do something?
Can we do something?
You know, and then we hadplanned stuff.
I canceled four times becausealways you know, you know can't
really leave the house to seepeople, because then my kids are
(45:00):
like what happened and it wasfunny.
I did do.
Where I work out.
They had it was a two everyTuesday.
They meet for drinks and I wentone Tuesday.
This is a couple months ago.
I went one Tuesday just to sayhi to everybody.
Again, they do it every Tuesday, I.
So the next day, wednesday cameand you know, the kids are like
(45:24):
you want to watch a movie?
I'm like it's way too late,guys, I have to go to bed.
And it was like they were like,well, you just went out
yesterday and you stayed outuntil like 30.
And so it's like, oh, okay, soI remember that Wednesday I
stayed up.
So now I'm staying up twonights late, I'm exhausted.
Thursday rolls around.
(45:45):
I'm like I see everybody at thegym and I'm like I'm never
going to Tuesday night again.
I'm like my family made me stayup.
Last night for you guys, I hadto stay up.
You know for them, um, which isfine, I mean both nights were
fun, um, and stuff.
But I mean just, I don't know,just trying to do your best is
(46:07):
it's hard, let me just.
It's hard.
It's hard to have a lot on yourplate and juggle everything for
sure.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
Yeah, and I definitely call it the struggle
and juggle, because you can'tbalance everything at one time.
That's no good, because you endup doing you know, I had a mom
say you half ass thisass this,and you half-ass that, and you
half-ass half-ass, and I'm like,yeah, so but just pay attention
(46:39):
to what you can at the time andI absolutely love.
You are the first mom that I'vehad on the show to say anything
about a nap and like that's myfavorite thing to do.
Like I will take a nap anywhere,and I don't know if that's just
like a, an unspoken luxury, andand other moms are not napping
(47:04):
throughout the day, but I feellike it's really important, like
you said, to catch that secondwin.
So you are all of these thingslike the behavior therapist in
me is like okay, these are somepretty good replacement
behaviors, right to help youmaintain the things that you
want to do.
So you've already kind of builtin your own little
(47:29):
interventions throughout the dayto maintain.
And you said something reallyimportant earlier is that you
really like what you do.
You love what you do.
That's your jam.
So that intrinsic motivation isreally important.
And I think a lot of times asparents we get bogged down with
(47:49):
our obligations and we forget toenjoy the things that we are
actually doing.
And sometimes, when you putthose obligations as a priority
and you kind of push yourenjoyment to the back burner,
I've started to notice like, atleast for me, the family doesn't
(48:10):
even want to be around you,right, because you're not really
enjoying the time.
You're probably cranky, youprobably have an attitude,
probably stressed out about allof the stuff that you should be
doing, and it defeats thepurpose of that quality time.
So it's nice to see that youhave figured out like okay, I am
(48:32):
busy.
Sometimes I get moms who saythey're busy and it's like are
you really?
Speaker 2 (48:40):
But everything that I know that you have going on.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
Yeah, I definitely would not step to you like, oh,
I just have so much to do.
Like certain people you cannot.
I have a girlfriend who's aprofessor and I tell her all the
time I can't come to you saying, oh my God, I just don't have
enough time.
Like you're a professor, you'rea behavior specialist, you have
two kids.
(49:06):
You have a kid in band like sheis busy, so if she can get it
done, you know what are youprioritizing.
It kind of helps me checkmyself and I feel the same way
with you.
Everything that you just listed.
Your job is really importantand you're still finding time to
(49:26):
do what you need to do.
So I can't even sit here like,oh, I can't do that, I don don't
have time.
No, you just said you startyour day at 3am, so you know you
make time for what you want todo.
I like that.
Speaker 2 (49:42):
Thank you.
You know what listen here's thedeal sometime to like what I'm
trying to do that's my jam is,you know, help families have a
healthy baby, but like.
So I recorded my first episodeof my podcast.
It's Bailey's story.
I think I recorded it in April.
She had her baby in Decemberand she her baby.
(50:05):
She went in with a healthy babyand she did not leave with a
healthy baby and a lot of whather story was was kind of the
stuff that's in my book, likedon't let it happen to you type
thing.
And so I did make her the firstyou know podcast, but she
hadn't read my book.
We have a great podcast.
She's amazing.
She's just trying to get youknow information out to other
(50:27):
moms, like just don't let thishappen to you and why?
So then, after the podcast, shereads my book and she's, like
she said, she understandseverything in it.
It was when it was really hardfor her Because you know,
basically had she read it beforeher.
You know the birth of herdaughter.
(50:48):
You know things may have beendifferent and I hear things like
that and you know, I'll tellyou for that.
Two weeks after that it waslike all right, I got to do this
.
I got to.
You know what I mean.
So it's always like this juggleright.
So, but yeah, that's whygetting out there and talking,
because I'm like, okay, is thereanyone else I can change their
(51:10):
life or I can do that, but yeah,but it's those stories, it's
those moments that are just likethey just stop me Right, and I
think it's.
Speaker 1 (51:27):
I love the dynamic here because you are approaching
things through a more proactivemeans.
So I feel like with yourinformation, with the book as a
resource, you're reallyempowering families to take
charge.
I work with kids with autism asa behavior therapist and we get
(51:49):
a lot of parents who reallyfeel hopeless and helpless right
In their situations and I get alot of questions all the time
like why is autism popping upeverywhere?
Do you really think this isautism?
And, to be completelytransparent, I don't think every
(52:11):
kid that I treat really andtruly has autism right.
It could have been somethingthat happened along the labor
and delivery right.
That could have led tosomething else, and now here we
are.
I have worked with parents whoprobably had two kiddos who were
(52:33):
on the spectrum.
And usually all the kids that Iwork with they do have a
diagnosis of autism.
And I go in the homes, I go inthe community, everywhere the
kids go.
I go right To help thecaregivers, the teachers and the
families navigate differentenvironments for their kids.
(52:55):
And I just remember I had onegrandparent.
She was adamant.
She was old, from the islandsand she was adamant like, nope,
it's not autism, I don't carewhat anybody says.
But then she starts telling methe mom's birthing story and she
was like but then she startstelling me the mom's birthing
story and she was like I thinkthey just had them in too long.
Mom wanted to continue to tryto push and everyone was saying,
(53:18):
hey, we need to do a C-section.
So it's just different thingsand I never split hairs with the
family.
I know it's a sensitive subjectand from my perspective we're
here now.
That's how I look at it.
So I don't know what happened.
(53:38):
I can't tell you if it's a truediagnosis or if it was
something else.
I don't know.
But this is where we are nowand this is how we move forward.
So that has always been myapproach, because I've always
looked at it as you get what youget.
And how can we make this themost comfortable situation for
(54:00):
the family, right?
How?
Speaker 2 (54:01):
can we?
Speaker 1 (54:02):
give this child a quality of life.
That's what I look at.
But how amazing is it to knowthat there are some things that
we can do before you get to thatpoint that might make a
difference, right, that mightgive you a better quality of
life just with informingyourself about that labor and
(54:25):
delivery process, and this isnot common knowledge.
Look, I just told you what theextent of my knowledge was, and
I thought I was prettyknowledgeable, right, but
apparently not All theinformation I got was wrong, and
that happens to so many peoplewho really don't know how to
(54:47):
navigate that space.
So, thank you so much for allthat you are doing, and I really
hope your family understandsyour work and how important it
is to other families out there.
What do your kids think aboutwhat it is that you're doing?
What are their thoughts?
Speaker 2 (55:09):
Oh, that's a great question, but hold on real quick
before I answer that.
So just so you understand too.
In the baby cases, sometimesbabies that have been injured
during labor and delivery arediagnosed with autism.
And it's almost like amisdiagnosis.
But you know, if somebody who'snot very educated puts that in
(55:32):
their record, then it's likethey're labeled and then it'll
carry on or whatever.
But just so, yeah, youunderstand that I've seen that
in a lot of cases where there isa diagnosis of autism and again
these are cases so, butsomebody diagnoses them with
them even though it's an injurythat's related to birth.
(55:53):
So that's where my kidsdefinitely give me a break.
We're like mom, we know you'retrying to save babies.
So they understand, you knoweverything actually based upon
what I'm doing.
My 20 year old decided a fewmonths ago that she actually
wants to go to school to be alawyer, to do the you know
(56:15):
something very similar to whatI'm doing.
So she's you know they do giveme a break.
They know I'm out there tryingto help families.
You know I think they've seenhow you know, meeting with the
family is talking to them aboutthe birth of their baby.
It's affected me.
I mean, I'm not not going tolie.
It was Tuesday.
(56:36):
I had to depose the mom wholost her baby and she's
hysterically crying during adeposition, holding the heart,
which I didn't understand iswhere her baby was until later
in the deposition.
But, like I, I don't know ifit's from writing the book and
actually you could.
I don't know if it's fromwriting the book and actually
you could.
You know, you may feel,appreciate this writing the book
(56:56):
for me.
For the first three months Iactually cried.
As you know, I had, for thefirst 19 years of my career,
really suppressed, I think,emotionally, what I had gone
through with these cases.
So I cried.
But then I had clarity and itreally propelled me to write the
best book I could to helpfamilies.
But I'll tell you now this likeI so I did the mom's deposition
(57:22):
.
I came, I picked up wine on theway home because I'm like I got
to calm down.
You know my family's there andI had told them and I usually
don't share with my kids what I.
You know my family's there andI had told them and I usually
don't share with my kids what I.
You know my life as achildbirth attorney, but I'm
like I don't know what's wrongwith me, like I can't handle
this one.
So I'm it seems like I'm moresusceptible to, you know, being
(57:43):
upset or emotional.
You know when I do have to talkabout.
You know mom who's lost.
You know her baby it's.
It's like it's really hard.
So my kids will see, you knowthey.
They were with me on Tuesday.
They saw how I reacted, whatI'm going through, and I think
it helps.
You know them realize whatmommy is, what mommy's trying to
(58:03):
do, so they do their.
That's probably the only reasonthey still love me as much as
they do, cause they do know I'mout there trying to do something
that no one else is doing.
Speaker 1 (58:15):
That's good.
So you, you have them givingyou a little grace, and I think
that's important too.
As parents, I think a lot oftimes we shield our kids from
everything but it's, or we tryto but it's, or we try to, and
then sometimes letting them justtake a peek behind the curtain
so they don't think you're justto this episode, because you
(58:38):
definitely get to look behindthe curtain Myself, the audience
, we get to see what really goesinto doing all of these amazing
things that you are doing, andit's a lot.
And it's nice to hear.
(59:15):
I mean, I I'm not saying it'snice that you're struggling, but
it's nice to hear that someoneis brave enough to say, hey,
this is not easy, this is hard,sometimes it sucks, sometimes I
don't get it right and my kidsare there to kind of call me on
it and hold me accountable, butthen they're also showing you
grace and I think more moms needto hear that reality so that
(59:39):
they can walk into whatevergreatness that they're destined
for.
They need a chance to walk intothat, just how you're doing.
I mean, you were an attorney,you already had a great career
and now you've taken it even astep further to raise awareness
(01:00:02):
and get this information outhere.
So you're working on both ends.
You are helping after the fact,when things go wrong, but
you're giving people theknowledge to say, hey, this
doesn't have to be your story,this was someone's story, it
doesn't have to be the same foryou.
So thank you for all that youare doing.
(01:00:24):
Um, if someone wanted tocontact you.
Uh, what would be the best wayto contact you?
Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
Always.
My website is definitely thebest way.
It has the contact information,my email, which goes to my
phone.
If anybody needs it right now,though, it's gm at GinaMundycom.
Again, it's on my website.
It literally goes to my phone.
So if you email me, it'll saynew contact message, and I'm
(01:00:53):
going to look because I do lovehearing from people, especially
if they've read my book or I geta lot.
Even health care workers willbe like oh my goodness, I read
your book or come on my podcastor you know whatnot, but
definitely the best way willalways be that website and then
purchasing the book is the bestway.
It be that website and thenpurchasing the book is best way
(01:01:14):
is Amazon.
Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
All right, thank you so much and we'll definitely put
that in the show descriptionwhen we release this episode.
Thank you so much for your timeand your insight and your
insight and I just really lovethe show and I can't wait for
(01:01:37):
everyone to hear your story andhear this episode.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
Oh, deloren, thank you so much for having me.
I'm just curious to see whatyou're going to make for the
title of the show.
It's going to be like thechildbirth attorney complete
family disaster, much, muchdifferent than her Instagram
account makes her out to be.
(01:01:59):
You know what I love, whatyou're doing.
I'm so comfortable.
You mentioned cool as acucumber.
You made me cool as a cucumber.
I'm a little more on edge orwhatever, but your voice, like
the way you talk, what you say,I think is just incredible.
I learned so much just sittinghere.
You know listening to you.
(01:02:20):
So you know, thank you for mykudos, but kudos to you because
I know families that listen toyou.
Your episode, episodes, I meanthis is great.
This is really great stuff forfamilies.
So, thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
Thank you, I really appreciate it and I think we're
on the same mission.
Just get the information outthere and let's empower moms and
families.
So thank you so much, Iappreciate it.
Hey everyone, it's yourfavorite BCBAD here, dr DeLoren,
and I'm here to ask you to helpus continue making great
(01:02:54):
content for listeners everywhereby visiting wwwforshittymomscom
, where you can make a monthlycontribution.
Also, visit us on Instagram,youtube, facebook and TikTok at
Foreshitty Moms and that'sshitty, with an X, not an I.
This episode of FSM is brought to you by Fidelity
Behavioral Alliance, your numberone source for behavior change.
Fidelity Behavioral Alliancecreates behavior change programs
for schools, parents andorganizations looking to reduce
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(00:20):
Find out more atwwwfidelitybehavioralliancecom.
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That's S-H-X-T-M-O-M atgmailcom.
(00:42):
M-o-m at gmailcom.
It's time to put the kids to bed, so y'all get ready for another
episode of For Shitty Moms.
All right, welcome back toanother episode of FSM.
I'm your host, dr DeLoren, andtoday we have a very special
(01:03):
guest joining us.
As you all know, here at FSM welike to unpack all things
relating to motherhood,parenting challenges and the
unique strategies that allowmoms to improve their overall
parenting experiences.
Today's guest is going to helpus do just that.
Now, today's episode isbeneficial to all parents, not
(01:27):
just moms, so you may want totake notes as you listen.
Without any further ado, I'dlike to introduce Gina Mundy to
the show.
Gina is a medical malpracticeattorney specializing in birth
trauma and injury.
Gina is also a mom, wife andthe best-selling author of A
(01:51):
Parent's Guide to a SaferChildbirth.
Gina, welcome to the show andthanks for joining us.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Thank you for having me, DeLoren.
I am very excited to be heretoday and talk to you more.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Lauren, I am very excited to be here today and
talk to you more Likewise Nowwith your intro.
Did I get everything right?
Is there anything that you needto correct?
Is that your correct title?
Go ahead and take us throughyour title, your credentials,
your background and what it isthat you do.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yeah, no, I think you got it right.
So basically, I've been anattorney specializing in
childbirth cases for right now,21 years.
And just so your audienceunderstands what that is, that
basically these are casesinvolving the birth of a baby
and there's a complication, amistake baby is not born healthy
, baby may pass, or mom may passaway during childbirth.
(02:44):
So as the attorney, I come in,find out what happened, what
went wrong, why, moreimportantly, what should have
been done?
So mom around to raise her baby, or baby born healthy?
And those questions have takenme across the United States many
times.
And then, about 19 years, deepinto my profession, I was
stopped in my tracks.
Basically, we had a near familytragic event during the birth
(03:07):
of a baby in my family and I waslike, wait a minute, you know,
based upon what I know in thisfield, I'm like I you know.
Basically, you know there arereoccurring issues, are
reoccurring mistakes, and I cantell you how I would prepare my
kids for childbirth iscompletely different than how
you know I would prepare my kidsfor childbirth is completely
different than how you knownormal family would prepare for
(03:28):
childbirth.
So I started to write down youknow, these common issues,
common facts, things that wantedmy kids to know about
childbirth, and basicallyfigured out that this is
information that could helpfamilies all around the world.
So then, in June 2023, Ipublished my book, like you just
said, I started then speakingaround the world.
(03:48):
More recently I started my ownpodcast, but basically the
bottom line is, instead ofgetting involved in the
aftermath of something goingwrong, I'm trying to get
involved before childbirth tohelp families just prevent the
complications, mistakes thatI've seen, and have a healthy
baby Cause.
I'll tell you, the hardest partof my job is the day I sit down
with the families and, you know, talk about the day their baby
(04:09):
was born.
So today, still a partner in mylaw firm, 21 years deep into it
, still working on my baby cases, but my jam is more trying to
get the information out therebeforehand.
Again, to you know, avoid, soparents can avoid what I see.
Okay, I think that was it.
Yeah, so the pot.
Oh, my podcast is called.
So I just heard my podcast,right?
(04:30):
hey, sorry, it's my dogs uh sopodcast is called the childbirth
attorney with Gina Mundy.
Um, it's on YouTube and thenSpotify and all the other stuff.
I actually I didn't really havetime for it, but I had a
producer reach out so I'm justsupposed to talk on it, which is
so not true.
There's so much in a podcastyou would know.
(04:52):
So anybody, anybody expecting ababy or whatever, it's
obviously again getting thisinformation out, making sure you
know people have healthy babies, because here's the deal I deal
with the preventable mistakes.
So know what?
I know they're good to go there, you know they're.
They're not going to see what Isee.
And again, all of that stuff isin my book.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Okay, now in your book do you, I know, like the
birthing centers, that hasbecome really popular.
So do you see a difference in,I guess, preventable mistakes
and hospitals versus birthingcenters?
Is that something you cover?
I feel like is becomingincreasingly popular, that
(05:39):
people are kind of turning tohome births and birthing centers
for that reason.
So is there really likeinformation out there saying
that one is safer than the other?
Speaker 2 (05:51):
You are so smart, boom, hit it on the nose.
That is the um.
Where everybody's going is.
I know two people right nowdoing home births and one doing
a birthing center, two of them,two people, abdullah's, and
whatnot, but yeah, there'sdefinitely a huge shift that I
have been seeing.
So here's the deal with thebaby cases the most common issue
(06:15):
in the cases is the drugPitocin.
Pitocin induces mom's labor.
So now, 39 weeks, you get anelective induction, all that
stuff.
Here's the deal.
You're not getting that at abirthing center.
Birthing center is not going tolet you do a Pitocin induction,
um, the um.
You have to go into a hospitalfor that Um.
And then same thing with a homebirth.
(06:37):
You're not going to deal withum, you know Pitocin, obviously,
during a home birth.
So if there's a complication,if there's a mistake, baby's not
born healthy.
The number one, again, mostcommon fact Pitocin.
What's the flip side of that?
Natural, spontaneous vaginalbirth, skip, skip the drugs.
(06:57):
So that is, you know, that ishome birth, that is the birthing
centers.
They want more of an allnatural approach.
So in that respect, yeah,you're, you're definitely going
to, you know, be able.
I think, obviously, if Pitocinis not involved, there's less
(07:20):
chance of something going, youknow going wrong, due again due
to a mistake or, you know, acomplication.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Okay, and that's.
That's good to know.
I know my husband and I we weredoing some family planning and
that's part of the reason why wedelayed for such a long time
when I had my son around like 23.
So you don't know what youdon't know and you kind of just
go in there First time mom,first time dad, and you just
(07:53):
follow your doctor's lead andyou don't really know.
And it wasn't until I got alittle older and I started to
understand all of the risksassociated with childbirth and
that really made me delay.
Because you know you thinkabout growing your family but
then you also think about therisk that you take just trying
(08:14):
to get through labor anddelivery.
So I can say for me personally,I know my decision.
I was I had like spinal surgery,so I'm kind of limited in what
I cannot do when it comes tochildbirth and that wasn't even
brought to my attention untilmaybe five weeks before my due
(08:34):
date.
It just so happens theanesthesiologist was there when
we were doing the tour and wegot to talking and no one ever
said anything about me havingspinal surgery and how you know
the epidurals that usually takeplace.
That's not really an option forme and I had the spinal surgery
when I was a kid so it neverdawned on me to even think about
(08:58):
it or how it would impact me inchildbirth.
So it kind of forced my husbandand I to look into more natural
and homeopathic options.
Because for me, if somethingwere to go wrong, they were like
, oh, we'll just put you under,like they'll go old school.
And I'm asking my mom, likewhat is old school?
And she's like, oh, they'regoing to put you to sleep.
(09:20):
That's how they did it back inthe day.
So was like, oh, that doesn'tsound fun and I only have five
weeks left.
And uh, no, birthing center atthe time would even take me.
So a doula birthing center,that wasn't an option.
I was too far along in thepregnancy, so just going through
(09:41):
those things and luckilyeverything worked out through
labor and delivery.
But there were a few timeswhere the doctor wanted to do
something.
I didn't really want to do it.
And what do you do?
We're here now, so do you haveany recommendations for anyone,
like, when they're in thehospital?
(10:02):
Do they even have options likethat?
What's the best course ofaction to take?
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Oh yeah, listen, you got to prepare for childbirth
like you did and then that helpsyou make those good decisions.
Here's the deal Mom's thedecision maker during labor and
delivery, the delivery team.
No matter how they talk to youI know how some doctors talk it
sounds like they're telling yousomething.
They're not.
Everything is a recommendation,so you prepare, kind of like
(10:30):
you.
It sounds like you prepared, sothey would when they would talk
to you on let's do this orlet's do that.
I'm not sure exactly what it is, but you have the knowledge
base to be like.
I'm good and you know what itsounds like.
You had a healthy baby, so very, very important to get ready.
You know chapter one of my book.
It goes over the lessons fromthe baby cases.
(10:50):
It's on my website for free.
Everybody should look at itbecause as a lesson you can
learn from the past to preventit from happening in the future.
And when I say lessons from thebaby cases, it's the lessons
from the families, the lessonsfrom the delivery team, the
medical experts.
You know, really, on what youneed to know Again,
understanding that you know youare the decision maker and
(11:13):
understanding the importance ofyou know getting ready and
preparing for childbirth.
And listen, I don't just say,okay, this is a lesson, good
luck.
No, every subsequent lesson isthat every I'm sorry, every
lesson is a subsequent chapter.
So chapter two is going to goover.
You know things that you reallyneed to know again to give you
(11:33):
a good foundation to make gooddecisions during labor.
Now, something with spinalsurgery that's so unique, that's
not going to be somethingthat's in my book, but there's a
lot of other information thatwould help guide you and then so
, okay, wait a minute, I knowall of this stuff now, and this
is not the stuff you're going tofind in what to expect when
you're expecting, or anythingthat I find important.
(11:55):
When I'm looking at a new casethat comes in and I'm like this,
good care, bad care, this,these are the things I rely on,
but it would give you again agood foundation.
And then again, you're going to, because of the previous spinal
surgery, maybe do some newother research.
Talk to somebody.
It sounds like they reallyshould have like referred you to
like MFM or something.
(12:18):
Yeah, like a specialist orsomething, just to make sure you
knew all your options.
That's kind of you know I'm I'msurprised that no one gave you
more options.
That's actually kind ofconcerning, because you know if
there was an emergency situationor you did need an like, that
is like you know it's right,it's happening.
It's it's kind of late in thegame, so you get really lucky
(12:39):
during your tour where you ranan anesthesiologist.
You're extremely lucky and thathelped you.
I think probably again, preparemore, get your options and
whatnot.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Absolutely.
I think mentally I was fineBecause my goal was I don't want
to feel any pain, just give methat epidural.
Like, as long as I got thatepidural, I heard it worked
wonders, I heard it was great.
I heard it makes that labor anddelivery experience better and
(13:15):
more enjoyable for the moms.
So five weeks learning that?
That is not an option for me.
I think the anesthesiologistkind of joked around like, oh
don't worry, I'm going to do mybest and I'm going to get in
there.
I'm going to try to get inthere.
But she was referring to myspine and I'm, like as many
(13:36):
books as possible to see youknow what are my options.
And luckily my husband was rightthere with me.
So we read like a lot of bookson acupressure and just
(13:59):
alternative medicine, thingsthat you can do to make the
labor delivery progress, what todo if you stall, and pain
management.
That was my biggest fear and itwas not a good situation to be
in.
We only had five weeks left andthen my son was born, maybe
(14:21):
like two weeks early.
My son was born maybe like twoweeks early.
So yeah, we didn't have a lotof time, but luckily I went out
that same day.
I bought books and we just kindof practiced like honey.
The book says you got to pushhere and push there during a
contraction and I have to dothis, and so that's what we we
(14:48):
did for pain management.
But everyone doesn't have thatoption.
So I think what you're doing isamazing, because in that
situation that day leaving thetour from the hospital, you
really do feel helpless.
And then you start to hear,like I'm asking different people
well, what if they tell me todo something?
And I don't want to do it, youknow?
And we were told like, oh well,they can get a court order.
(15:09):
So how likely is that to happen?
Is that okay?
Whatever, what are you gonnawait for?
Speaker 2 (15:15):
the job get.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
No, okay, well, no sorry okay, well, that that's
pretty much what we were telling.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Over.
A matter like that takes timeand just I mean when you're
making decisions duringchildbirth.
So getting a court order takesa lot of time, a lot of effort.
A judge's signature afterpeople go and explain everything
to the judge, and then there'sa certain criteria.
(15:48):
I mean they really need to be.
You know, your decision makinghas to be endangering your baby,
and so what?
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Okay.
Well, that makes me feel goodbecause you do have a sense of
okay, we're here now and youjust have to listen to what
they're telling you.
So it's nice to hear from Ifeel, like an expert.
Right, it's nice to hear froman expert that you do have
choices.
(16:19):
And, like I said, luckily, mydoctor.
He was very nonchalant becausemy contractions stopped, my son
stopped.
Everything just kind of stalled.
And he was like OK, you're afirst time mom, I can tell you
want to do things your way.
And he was like I'm going tolet you guys do things your way,
(16:42):
I'm going to go.
He was like I don't think thebaby's coming today, but I'm
monitoring everything.
I guess they have everything ontheir phones now through the
apps.
And he was like I'll be back,get some rest.
I don't think that baby'scoming today.
And get some rest was probablythe best advice that he gave me,
(17:04):
because, looking back now, Idon't think I would have made it
Like we went to sleep and Iprobably arrived around two
o'clock in the afternoon.
We didn't have my son untilaround 7am the next day.
So get some sleep, get somerest.
That was the best advice,because there's no way without
(17:26):
any like pain meds or anything,I don't think I would have been
able to push my son out.
You know, I just don't think Iwould have made it.
And I hear that from a lot ofmoms Like it's exhausting, it's
excruciating.
A lot of moms are like, oh, Ithought I was going to pass out.
A lot of moms were like, oh, Ithought I was going to pass out.
And I think getting some sleep,getting some rest, gave me just
(17:47):
enough energy to like getthrough the actual laboring part
of it.
So, knowing all of that andreflecting on my experience now
that I'm older, I'm like I justfelt like there were a lot of
chances and there were a lot ofrisks associated with it, but at
(18:08):
the time I didn't know.
So I think it's great that youhave created a resource for
people who are doing theirfamily planning or if they're
already expecting and need alittle more guidance.
It's amazing that you'vecreated a guide to help families
through it, because I was eventelling my husband like, hey, if
(18:29):
something happens, this isgonna fall on you, like if I
can't make any more decisions,they're gonna look to you to
make some decisions and I Idon't know.
We were both kind of like okay,like oh shit, just that real,
because they're not gonna go tomy mom, you know they're not
gonna go to my mom.
They're gonna ask him.
(18:49):
So I think it's amazing and Ido think for sure we are gonna
go through that book togetherbefore we do like any uh, family
planning or finalize anydecisions.
We are definitely gonna gothrough it ourselves just to
have that knowledge and thatinformation because, like I said
, we got lucky and I know a lotof people they don't get lucky.
(19:12):
So thank you for making thatresource for everyone.
And where?
Like, is this something onamazon?
Do you have it on your website?
Speaker 2 (19:22):
yeah, so the default is always gina mundycom,
g-i-n-a-m-u-n-d-ycom again.
That's where I have chapter oneagain.
Everybody should really read,um, and then also amazon is the
easiest place to find it.
Okay, you just type gina mundyeven in the search bar safer
childbirth, anything like that.
It comes up.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Okay you're funny, though, you said so in my book.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
I literally I said something in my book but then I
was like dash, it just got real.
You just said that my book isnot swearing.
So that's like the only time Iswear in my book and it just
happened to be the same exactthing that you just said.
But no comment on your doctor.
I really like your doctor'sapproach about resting and
(20:07):
whatnot.
You know, sometimes doctors, Ithink, try to hurry up the
situation and that's where theycan get into trouble.
So the fact that he was likerest, I'm going to watch.
So he's watching the baby'sheart rate.
Okay, so you know, think aboutit.
You know when mom's in laborthere's two patients.
You mom, you're easy Doctor cantalk to you, you can report if
(20:29):
you have pain somewhere, theycan physically assess you and so
forth.
They can, you know, afterasking you questions and you
answer and make a diagnosis, aplan.
Life's great, baby's muchdifferent.
You know, baby's inside you andthe best way to figure out how
your baby is doing during laboris their heart rate and that's
why it graphs next to your bedat the nurse's station, the
(20:50):
doctor's area, on their phone.
So you know, he seemed like no,I'm going to check keep an eye
on the baby's heart rate, whichis extremely important because
some doctors don't look at thebaby's heart rate unless they're
called.
But yeah, the fact that he'slike chill out, I'll keep an eye
on the heart rate.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
I'm like yes, yeah, he was pretty hot.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Yeah, that makes me happy.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Okay, so you have a lot on your plate.
Your career.
You're an author, you are doingyour podcast.
Now you are doing interviewsfor other podcasts.
How in the world are youjuggling all of that along with
(21:36):
family and just maintaining yourown mental health self-care?
What does that look like foryou?
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Yeah, so I have three kids.
One is 21, is almost 16.
And the two older ones aregirls.
And then I have my little man.
He's 10.
Oh, wow, I also have twoSheltie dogs, two bunnies, a
beta fish that won't die.
So I just looked at its water.
(22:05):
It's murky.
It lives in like murky water.
It's the 10 year olds, right,and so it lives in like murky
water.
I'm like I don't know how it'salive.
It's hard, I'll tell you.
You know, my house is adisaster.
You know, I was hoping myteenage girls are about 20 and
16, but, you know, maybe helpout a little bit more around the
(22:26):
house or whatever, but no, myhouse is pretty unorganized,
pretty dirty right now.
Um, I'll tell you, though, ittook 14 months to write my book
and thousands of hours, whilestill, you know, being a partner
in a law firm and all that.
That was really hard.
So I get up.
My schedule changed a lot.
(22:47):
I get up at 3am.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Um, yeah, I get up before the world wakes up.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Um, that's been part of my secret, um, but what's the
flip side of that?
You got to go to bed at areasonable time.
I can't stay up till nine or 10at night, and if I do, you
should, it's like everybody sawa ghost.
If I'm up at nine, you know, Ijust want to get a shirt that
says boo if I'm like, that's howthey look at me.
But so, basically, you know Ihad to adjust my, my schedule.
(23:12):
So then I basically feedanimals, dogs, kids, make dinner
, clean up and, you know, try tobe in bed by seven If it's any
later.
I got to take a nap around noonjust to get through the, you
know, second half of.
Oh, but yeah, changing changingthe schedule was probably the
biggest thing.
My house, yep, like I said, Iwas on a zone to organize my
(23:36):
social life.
That's out the door, that's out.
So you know, and it's funnybecause I thought when I
published my book my life wouldgo back to normal, being a
partner in a law firm and a momof three.
No, it's, it's like worse.
So, but hold on, I'll tell you,it's hard because getting on
podcasts and even talking aboutmy book and helping families
(23:59):
like that's my jam, that's whatI want to do.
Like when I am on a show, I amso excited to talk.
You know, when I have to go domy partner in a law firm thing
and talk about, you know, rightbefore this, I had a meeting and
I have to talk about, okay,what happened to this baby?
Why is this baby a brain damage?
You know, I'm like, oh, youknow, a couple of days ago I had
(24:21):
to talk to a mom, you know,whose baby died after birth and
you know you get into weirdstuff like cremation and all
this, and I'm just like, oh, mygoodness.
And then you know and this isactually very normal but she
wears there's a big necklace andthe baby's inside her necklace.
Their heart and minds the baby.
(24:41):
The mom's heart doesn'tunderstand that baby's not there
.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
And you know it's so hard listening to this stuff.
So that's, you know, trust me.
After.
That's why, after 19 years oflistening to these families, I'm
like, all right, I got to dosomething.
So you know it's hard because Ido, but I'm loving it and I
know I'm helping families andthere's so many people out there
appreciative.
So you know I've been cuttingback a little bit more, you know
(25:07):
, at work.
But then, out there, you know,trying to do this, but yeah, no,
and then the kids have taken ahit peer my parenting, but my
husband so I'm married okay, I'mmarried to a busy business
owner.
When I started writing my bookkind of chilled out on that a
little bit.
So he really, you know, we kindof I wouldn't say switched
(25:31):
roles.
He's always been a really gooddad, but he's definitely more
active in their lives right nowthan me.
Um, again, because you know I'mout there doing a bunch of
things.
So him taking moreresponsibility and whatnot has
really helped.
So but yeah, juggling it, yeahit's not fun, I mean, but you
(25:54):
gotta do it so do you make timefor yourself at all?
Speaker 1 (25:57):
what do you do for yourself?
Speaker 2 (26:00):
oh, yeah, you know, I did learn that I wish I would
have done this earlier in life.
Um, but no, I do take time formyself.
That is one thing.
So, um, I work out, usuallybetween 5 am or 6 am.
You're going to see me at thegym, kind of, you know, getting
ready for my day mentally, orwhatnot.
First Saturday of every month Iget my massage.
(26:23):
Yeah, so, and I'm like, ok,well, that's it.
Yes, I work out and I, oh, andthe weekends I enjoy some wine.
Ok, but yeah, I mean, I wouldsay those are things.
Oh, you know what else I do.
This has been great.
You're still young, even thoughyou keep trying to tell me
you're older.
I'm 48.
(26:46):
Okay, I'm 48.
But IVs I get IVs every coupleweeks that have like all of
these vitamins and all of thisstuff, and then they'll give me
like a shot of like glutathione.
But that I remember, when Ireleased my book, the lady who
(27:09):
owns the IV clinic where I liveshe is an author and owned a
publishing company, you knowback in the day or whatnot she's
like you're going to need an IVevery two weeks.
And I'm like, okay, I'm like,are you paying, by the way?
Cause they're not.
Um, nope, there's shit.
I needed an IV every two weeksand literally I could feel
(27:32):
myself.
You know, when I go past twoweeks now I'm dragging, so yeah,
so I would say IVs, massages,and then I work out.
And I don't work out really tokeep in shape.
It's definitely mental, okay.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Gotcha, and that's good.
I love that you found something.
All of it sounds enjoyable.
Sometimes you get like theseself-care ideas or suggestions
and it's like I don't want to dothat.
That this is now I'm morestressed out because I don't
want to do that.
(28:09):
But yeah, I've tried a coupleof the IVs myself.
A girlfriend of mine kind ofput me on to them um and I agree
.
Um, we have what is that placecalled?
We have like allure here, likean allure spa clinic here.
(28:29):
So definitely the vitamin c.
Um, I feel like I feel thebiggest difference with the
vitamin C.
I tried a couple of them forjust like hydration, with the
different B vitamins in there,and they didn't do too much.
But for whatever reason, once Ileft, once I got the vitamin C
(28:51):
treatment when I left from there, I was like all right, let's
knock this out.
So I agree with you there, thatdefinitely helps Definitely.
I see a difference with justdrinking the water and I've been
trying out this chlorophyll, sothe green water, but it's good
(29:13):
for like the inflammation, um,and I feel like a lot of that
from the processed foods orsalty foods or you know, just
the crazy stuff that we may eator drink throughout the day.
I was definitely hooked onthose Red Bulls and energy
drinks so.
I kind of shifted, I got alittle scared like I'm getting
(29:34):
older now, like after 35, I'mlike, let me put those down.
So I kind of traded the IVs,the vitamins, and I traded the
chlorophyll water for the RedBull.
So I kind of swapped those outand just for the listeners,
because we are like a behaviorchange podcast.
(29:57):
I'm a behavior analyst, soeverything that we are talking
about today we're talking aboutreplacement behaviors.
Typically, when we're goinginto behavior modification,
really we're identifying thebehaviors that we may not like
or risky behaviors.
We're kind of identifying thoseand then okay, what can we
(30:21):
replace it with to get theoutcome that we want?
So a lot of times people engagein behavior change and they
don't really know it andbehavior change and they don't
really know it.
So it makes it kind of hard tostick to something when you
don't necessarily know what itis that you're doing right.
But for you you've kind ofalready listed, you've given the
(30:43):
listeners a bunch of ideas ofreplacement behaviors and the
your replacement behaviors soundreally nice.
They sound really good and thatfeeds into what we feel like
this is good for them.
But sometimes you just can'tstick to it because it may not
(31:19):
be that enjoyable.
So, um and I do hear a lot ofmoms say the same thing,
especially, I don't know, thereally, really busy moms.
They have let go of the wholelike maintaining the household.
I don't know if it's like timethat has gone by, but I know
(31:39):
when I grew up that was a thing.
Every Saturday morning you getup and you clean that house from
top to bottom and it seems likethe more moms that I interview
they are just outright with ithey, my house is a mess.
I don't even do that and I'mlike, oh okay.
(31:59):
I shouldn't feel so guiltyanymore because the laundry is
like oh, the struggle is real,with the laundry especially.
So it's nice to hear and youdon't sound stressed out at all
with everything that you'rejuggling between the career um,
now you're more so anentrepreneur and doing your own
(32:23):
thing and creating a lane foryourself, and you still have to
take care of your family and Iknow the listeners can't see you
, but you look cool as acucumber, like, so you're
awesome.
I love that because I feel likeI'm just surrounded by everyone
who's trying to do it all themoms.
(32:46):
They're trying to do it all andthey are high, strong, myself
included.
And but this process has taughtme, like, why are you trying to
do it all?
That's not fun, it's it's noteven enjoyable.
So it's nice to see that youhave identified, like, what
works for you and what's notgoing to work for you, and it is
(33:10):
what it is.
I tell a lot of parents that Ido parent coaching as well, and
if you can't sustain somethingI'm starting to tell a lot more
parents then don't bother Ifit's going to stress you out.
If that's not something you canjust maintain and incorporate
into your daily routine, let itgo.
Don't even bother go, don'teven bother.
(33:37):
I know a lot of moms arestressed out about their kids
and certain things their kidsare doing and certain things
that their kids are not doing.
But I've been telling the moms,hey, if you can't coach them
through it and teach them andcorrect them every single time
until they got it on their own,don't even bother bringing it up
and mentioning it to them,because it's going to become
(33:57):
harder to sustain that behavior.
So you're kind of doing thatalready on your own and I love
to hear that.
So how would you describeyourself as a mom?
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Oh wow, I know, I saw that question coming.
Uh, uh, so that's interesting.
Could do better, probably, um,in terms of mom thing.
So, um, you know it wasinteresting.
I, I wanted to take more ofthis.
Basically, it's like family andfriends had a little bit of
(34:32):
intervention with me.
Like, gina, you got to stopworking.
You know you need to take sometime off, You're going to go
cuckoo and um, so I, at thatpoint I'm like, all right, I'm
not going to work that much thissummer, which is a joke right
now, where I'm working just asmuch.
So the only way to get away fromit, we do have a camper and I
love camping, um, so last week Itook my son camping.
(34:55):
He's 10.
So, yeah, and this ties in withhow do you see yourself as a
mom?
This was a huge turning point.
It was literally last week.
So, anyway, so bear with me,but anyway we, uh, we hit the
camp store and, um, there weretwo cups and one of the cups the
first cup said world's best mom, pentwater Michigan, and this
(35:18):
is right when we arrived, andthen the cup next to it just
said Pentwater Michigan.
And my 10 year old looks at thecup that says world's best mom,
pentwater Michigan, and goes,mom, this cup does not apply to
you.
So if you want to buy one ofthe cups, you have to buy
Pentwater Michigan.
And I'm like my heart dropsright Cause I've taken the whole
(35:39):
week off work.
It's just him and I and that'swhat he thinks of me and I'm
like you gotta be kidding me.
So I mean, he's a very directkid.
He very like he says it how itis no fluff ever.
So I'm like, okay, like hedidn't even have to say that.
He could have just kept it tohimself, but he obviously was
trying to tell me something.
(36:00):
So that week I'll tell you hewas like camping with the
energizer bunny and we and I'mlike, all right, I got this.
And uh, we did everything.
We biked, we played frisbee inthe water, we played baseball.
So he's a pitcher for hisbaseball team, so I let him
(36:20):
pitch to me for hours on end.
We just we did everything.
So we come to the last day ofcamping and basically I wouldn't
say no to anything.
So he'd be like, can we go todinner?
I'm like, sure, can we go tothe candy shop?
Sure, you know, or whatever.
I mean he doesn't requestanything crazy.
So we have to go back to thecamp store because he has bought
(36:46):
in sunglasses and they broke.
So we go back to the camp storeand he walks back over to the
cups and he's like okay, mom,well, after this week, if you
want to buy world's greatest momcup, that's fine, it now
applies to you.
And I'm like oh, thank you, youknow.
But before that, obviously Irealized, um, that you know I I
(37:12):
wasn't spending enough time withhim.
I mean, he's 10.
And I had also asked himnumerous times like, hey, do you
want to bring a friend up?
And he's like no, like you workall the time.
I just want to see you, I justwant to hang out with you.
And he's a pretty social kid.
So I'm like okay, but yeah.
So how do I describe Yep, andyou definitely need to spend
(37:37):
some more time with my kids.
But I'll tell you, we got backfrom that camping trip and I
leave to go to the store orsomething.
He'd be like okay, mom, loveyou.
Like he hasn't said that inyears.
You know it's always me saying,all right, liam, love you.
And he'd be like love you too,mom, that's his thing, right?
(38:00):
So this time it was like hetook initiative after the
camping trip and all that stuff.
So yeah, so, as a mom,definitely need to spend some
more time with the kiddos andyou know, just make sure you
know they're just young ones, uh, so yeah, that's probably my
description.
So I'm, I'm trying, okay, andyou know what, so I'm trying,
okay, and you know what.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
That's exactly what the show is about.
Definitely no mom shaming goeson here whatsoever, and we're
all trying.
So with the name.
I came up with the name because, just like you, I realized I'm
a little too busy.
It's just like you know what.
I can't be the only one, right,but it seems like there's so
(38:42):
little time to do everythingthat you need to do as a mom and
mainly it's you know to providefor your family, to give
yourself a quality of life thatyou want.
But there are so many demandsout there it's almost impossible
to do it all.
And I feel like when I wasgrowing up, my mom kind of did
(39:04):
everything in my eyes and I'mlike how the heck did she do
that?
Like?
this is nuts, like now that I'ma mom, I'm like, okay, I'm just
not doing that, this is nuts.
Like, now that I'm a mom, I'mlike, okay, I'm, I'm just not
doing that, this is nuts.
So, even cooking dinner everyday three times a week, like
that, that's not happening in myreality.
(39:24):
That's not realistic.
And I used to be like, oh, Iguess I'm going to be a shitty
mom today, cause I'm like no,we're gonna get some chick-fil-a
, we're gonna call it a day andthat's gonna be it.
We'll try again tomorrow.
Um, so there are things that Ialways beat myself up about,
(39:45):
until I start talking to othermoms who don't really beat
themselves up about it anymore.
It is, it is, it is right,they're unapologetic about it.
And I had a guest on the showwho was like hey, as a parent,
when she gets to that point,it's like all right, what's the
(40:06):
next best thing that I can doright now?
And after that, everything else, she kind of lets go.
So, with all the experiencesthat you have as a parent, what
is the best advice that you'vereceived as a mom?
Speaker 2 (40:25):
Be patient.
But I think that goes in handin hand with, you know, high
stress job, you know working allthe time.
You know you're just more.
I think you're just more onedge.
I mean, I think about it,camping I was so chill, I was
like different.
And then after camping I wasdifferent for a little bit until
(40:47):
I realized how far behind I got.
And you know, and not only that, I'm leaving next week, before
the July week.
So it's like I'm in this weekand I'm just like you know.
So, yes, I might be a littlemore high stress, which patient
seems to go out the window.
So I'll be like, okay, remember, be patient.
(41:09):
Kids, you know only young onceand so forth.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
But yeah, just being patient so a lot of the
questions you've kind of touchedon, so I'm not going to go
through all of them, because youkind of answered them with some
of your explanations.
So cool, what advice.
And this is kind of the thesame thing.
So what are some of the mostrewarding experiences that
(41:35):
you've had with your kiddos,with everything that you have
going on, what are some of themore rewarding experiences that
you've had as a mom?
Speaker 2 (41:49):
For instance, mother's Day, when we're all
together, my family knows theyhave my undivided attention and
we just have like a great timeor even like camping.
You know I spent the week withmy son.
We were able to kind of rebounda little bit and like just like
, like I said, you know I'mleaving and he's like, okay,
(42:09):
love you mom.
Or he gives me a hug or youknow he was, you know like kind
of like, oh, I'm mom.
Or he gives me a hug, or youknow he was, you know like kind
of like, oh, I'm 10.
Don't touch me, you knowwhatever.
Like don't hug me or give me akiss in front of my friends or
whatever.
But I dropped him off atbasketball camp a couple of days
ago and I totally hugged andkissed him and he was like he
was okay.
I'm like, oh, my goodness, Ihugged and kissed my 10 year old
(42:29):
is everything okay.
But you know we had just bondedand we were, you know, so tight
.
But, um, you know I think it istoo just.
You know I took that time, I puteverything aside.
He was my everything for thatweek and then getting back and
going back into everything.
You know I definitely this pastweek have been more like are
(42:52):
you hungry?
Because he has basketball campin the morning but he's home, so
it's like do you need anything?
You know I was more attentiveto him versus hiding in my
office, working as fast as I can, you know, kind of the mindset
that maybe some of this reallycan wait and whatnot.
So but yeah, just the effectsof last week and what it's done
(43:17):
to our relationship it was Idon't know.
It opened my eyes and it'sdefinitely kind of moving
forward trying to keep that inmind.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
And that's awesome that you gave yourself the
opportunity to unplug andreconnect.
I think in a perfect world ifwe could do that more often.
We would.
We know it's good, but we don'talways do it or we tell
ourselves we don't have time.
What do you say to yourself toget through it?
(43:50):
What do you?
Speaker 2 (43:51):
say to yourself to get through it, I'll do better.
Like yeah, I mean these days,you have to understand.
I mean my time's so limited.
You know I went out with one ofmy friends.
That was a couple of weeks agonow.
It was a Friday afternoon andjust my kids are like, well, we
(44:15):
haven't seen you all week.
What do you mean?
You're going out with yourfriend and I'm like, okay, I
never go out with my friends.
But you know, and I know, mylittle man wanted to watch a
movie and I'm like I'll be back,but I didn't get.
You know, I go to bed so early.
I did not get back in time towatch a movie or whatnot.
So you know it's just trying to.
When I do something, you knowit's hard, cause I'm kind of
(44:38):
like I have to see my friendstoo.
Like I told you, I asked mysocial life, so I hadn't seen
this person in months.
And not only that.
You know somebody who had beenreaching out like can we do
something?
Can we do something?
Can we do something?
You know, you know somebody whohad been reaching out like can
we do something?
Can we do something?
Can we do something?
You know, and then we hadplanned stuff.
I canceled four times becausealways you know, you know can't
really leave the house to seepeople, because then my kids are
(45:00):
like what happened and it wasfunny.
I did do.
Where I work out.
They had it was a two everyTuesday.
They meet for drinks and I wentone Tuesday.
This is a couple months ago.
I went one Tuesday just to sayhi to everybody.
Again, they do it every Tuesday, I.
So the next day, wednesday cameand you know, the kids are like
(45:24):
you want to watch a movie?
I'm like it's way too late,guys, I have to go to bed.
And it was like they were like,well, you just went out
yesterday and you stayed outuntil like 30.
And so it's like, oh, okay, soI remember that Wednesday I
stayed up.
So now I'm staying up twonights late, I'm exhausted.
Thursday rolls around.
(45:45):
I'm like I see everybody at thegym and I'm like I'm never
going to Tuesday night again.
I'm like my family made me stayup.
Last night for you guys, I hadto stay up.
You know for them, um, which isfine, I mean both nights were
fun, um, and stuff.
But I mean just, I don't know,just trying to do your best is
(46:07):
it's hard, let me just.
It's hard.
It's hard to have a lot on yourplate and juggle everything for
sure.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
Yeah, and I definitely call it the struggle
and juggle, because you can'tbalance everything at one time.
That's no good, because you endup doing you know, I had a mom
say you half ass thisass this,and you half-ass that, and you
half-ass half-ass, and I'm like,yeah, so but just pay attention
(46:39):
to what you can at the time andI absolutely love.
You are the first mom that I'vehad on the show to say anything
about a nap and like that's myfavorite thing to do.
Like I will take a nap anywhere,and I don't know if that's just
like a, an unspoken luxury, andand other moms are not napping
(47:04):
throughout the day, but I feellike it's really important, like
you said, to catch that secondwin.
So you are all of these thingslike the behavior therapist in
me is like okay, these are somepretty good replacement
behaviors, right to help youmaintain the things that you
want to do.
So you've already kind of builtin your own little
(47:29):
interventions throughout the dayto maintain.
And you said something reallyimportant earlier is that you
really like what you do.
You love what you do.
That's your jam.
So that intrinsic motivation isreally important.
And I think a lot of times asparents we get bogged down with
(47:49):
our obligations and we forget toenjoy the things that we are
actually doing.
And sometimes, when you putthose obligations as a priority
and you kind of push yourenjoyment to the back burner,
I've started to notice like, atleast for me, the family doesn't
(48:10):
even want to be around you,right, because you're not really
enjoying the time.
You're probably cranky, youprobably have an attitude,
probably stressed out about allof the stuff that you should be
doing, and it defeats thepurpose of that quality time.
So it's nice to see that youhave figured out like okay, I am
(48:32):
busy.
Sometimes I get moms who saythey're busy and it's like are
you really?
Speaker 2 (48:40):
But everything that I know that you have going on.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
Yeah, I definitely would not step to you like, oh,
I just have so much to do.
Like certain people you cannot.
I have a girlfriend who's aprofessor and I tell her all the
time I can't come to you saying, oh my God, I just don't have
enough time.
Like you're a professor, you'rea behavior specialist, you have
two kids.
(49:06):
You have a kid in band like sheis busy, so if she can get it
done, you know what are youprioritizing.
It kind of helps me checkmyself and I feel the same way
with you.
Everything that you just listed.
Your job is really importantand you're still finding time to
(49:26):
do what you need to do.
So I can't even sit here like,oh, I can't do that, I don don't
have time.
No, you just said you startyour day at 3am, so you know you
make time for what you want todo.
I like that.
Speaker 2 (49:42):
Thank you.
You know what listen here's thedeal sometime to like what I'm
trying to do that's my jam is,you know, help families have a
healthy baby, but like.
So I recorded my first episodeof my podcast.
It's Bailey's story.
I think I recorded it in April.
She had her baby in Decemberand she her baby.
(50:05):
She went in with a healthy babyand she did not leave with a
healthy baby and a lot of whather story was was kind of the
stuff that's in my book, likedon't let it happen to you type
thing.
And so I did make her the firstyou know podcast, but she
hadn't read my book.
We have a great podcast.
She's amazing.
She's just trying to get youknow information out to other
(50:27):
moms, like just don't let thishappen to you and why?
So then, after the podcast, shereads my book and she's, like
she said, she understandseverything in it.
It was when it was really hardfor her Because you know,
basically had she read it beforeher.
You know the birth of herdaughter.
(50:48):
You know things may have beendifferent and I hear things like
that and you know, I'll tellyou for that.
Two weeks after that it waslike all right, I got to do this
.
I got to.
You know what I mean.
So it's always like this juggleright.
So, but yeah, that's whygetting out there and talking,
because I'm like, okay, is thereanyone else I can change their
(51:10):
life or I can do that, but yeah,but it's those stories, it's
those moments that are just likethey just stop me Right, and I
think it's.
Speaker 1 (51:27):
I love the dynamic here because you are approaching
things through a more proactivemeans.
So I feel like with yourinformation, with the book as a
resource, you're reallyempowering families to take
charge.
I work with kids with autism asa behavior therapist and we get
(51:49):
a lot of parents who reallyfeel hopeless and helpless right
In their situations and I get alot of questions all the time
like why is autism popping upeverywhere?
Do you really think this isautism?
And, to be completelytransparent, I don't think every
(52:11):
kid that I treat really andtruly has autism right.
It could have been somethingthat happened along the labor
and delivery right.
That could have led tosomething else, and now here we
are.
I have worked with parents whoprobably had two kiddos who were
(52:33):
on the spectrum.
And usually all the kids that Iwork with they do have a
diagnosis of autism.
And I go in the homes, I go inthe community, everywhere the
kids go.
I go right To help thecaregivers, the teachers and the
families navigate differentenvironments for their kids.
(52:55):
And I just remember I had onegrandparent.
She was adamant.
She was old, from the islandsand she was adamant like, nope,
it's not autism, I don't carewhat anybody says.
But then she starts telling methe mom's birthing story and she
was like but then she startstelling me the mom's birthing
story and she was like I thinkthey just had them in too long.
Mom wanted to continue to tryto push and everyone was saying,
(53:18):
hey, we need to do a C-section.
So it's just different thingsand I never split hairs with the
family.
I know it's a sensitive subjectand from my perspective we're
here now.
That's how I look at it.
So I don't know what happened.
(53:38):
I can't tell you if it's a truediagnosis or if it was
something else.
I don't know.
But this is where we are nowand this is how we move forward.
So that has always been myapproach, because I've always
looked at it as you get what youget.
And how can we make this themost comfortable situation for
(54:00):
the family, right?
How?
Speaker 2 (54:01):
can we?
Speaker 1 (54:02):
give this child a quality of life.
That's what I look at.
But how amazing is it to knowthat there are some things that
we can do before you get to thatpoint that might make a
difference, right, that mightgive you a better quality of
life just with informingyourself about that labor and
(54:25):
delivery process, and this isnot common knowledge.
Look, I just told you what theextent of my knowledge was, and
I thought I was prettyknowledgeable, right, but
apparently not All theinformation I got was wrong, and
that happens to so many peoplewho really don't know how to
(54:47):
navigate that space.
So, thank you so much for allthat you are doing, and I really
hope your family understandsyour work and how important it
is to other families out there.
What do your kids think aboutwhat it is that you're doing?
What are their thoughts?
Speaker 2 (55:09):
Oh, that's a great question, but hold on real quick
before I answer that.
So just so you understand too.
In the baby cases, sometimesbabies that have been injured
during labor and delivery arediagnosed with autism.
And it's almost like amisdiagnosis.
But you know, if somebody who'snot very educated puts that in
(55:32):
their record, then it's likethey're labeled and then it'll
carry on or whatever.
But just so, yeah, youunderstand that I've seen that
in a lot of cases where there isa diagnosis of autism and again
these are cases so, butsomebody diagnoses them with
them even though it's an injurythat's related to birth.
(55:53):
So that's where my kidsdefinitely give me a break.
We're like mom, we know you'retrying to save babies.
So they understand, you knoweverything actually based upon
what I'm doing.
My 20 year old decided a fewmonths ago that she actually
wants to go to school to be alawyer, to do the you know
(56:15):
something very similar to whatI'm doing.
So she's you know they do giveme a break.
They know I'm out there tryingto help families.
You know I think they've seenhow you know, meeting with the
family is talking to them aboutthe birth of their baby.
It's affected me.
I mean, I'm not not going tolie.
It was Tuesday.
(56:36):
I had to depose the mom wholost her baby and she's
hysterically crying during adeposition, holding the heart,
which I didn't understand iswhere her baby was until later
in the deposition.
But, like I, I don't know ifit's from writing the book and
actually you could.
I don't know if it's fromwriting the book and actually
you could.
You know, you may feel,appreciate this writing the book
(56:56):
for me.
For the first three months Iactually cried.
As you know, I had, for thefirst 19 years of my career,
really suppressed, I think,emotionally, what I had gone
through with these cases.
So I cried.
But then I had clarity and itreally propelled me to write the
best book I could to helpfamilies.
But I'll tell you now this likeI so I did the mom's deposition
(57:22):
.
I came, I picked up wine on theway home because I'm like I got
to calm down.
You know my family's there andI had told them and I usually
don't share with my kids what I.
You know my family's there andI had told them and I usually
don't share with my kids what I.
You know my life as achildbirth attorney, but I'm
like I don't know what's wrongwith me, like I can't handle
this one.
So I'm it seems like I'm moresusceptible to, you know, being
(57:43):
upset or emotional.
You know when I do have to talkabout.
You know mom who's lost.
You know her baby it's.
It's like it's really hard.
So my kids will see, you knowthey.
They were with me on Tuesday.
They saw how I reacted, whatI'm going through, and I think
it helps.
You know them realize whatmommy is, what mommy's trying to
(58:03):
do, so they do their.
That's probably the only reasonthey still love me as much as
they do, cause they do know I'mout there trying to do something
that no one else is doing.
Speaker 1 (58:15):
That's good.
So you, you have them givingyou a little grace, and I think
that's important too.
As parents, I think a lot oftimes we shield our kids from
everything but it's, or we tryto but it's, or we try to, and
then sometimes letting them justtake a peek behind the curtain
so they don't think you're justto this episode, because you
(58:38):
definitely get to look behindthe curtain Myself, the audience
, we get to see what really goesinto doing all of these amazing
things that you are doing, andit's a lot.
And it's nice to hear.
(59:15):
I mean, I I'm not saying it'snice that you're struggling, but
it's nice to hear that someoneis brave enough to say, hey,
this is not easy, this is hard,sometimes it sucks, sometimes I
don't get it right and my kidsare there to kind of call me on
it and hold me accountable, butthen they're also showing you
grace and I think more moms needto hear that reality so that
(59:39):
they can walk into whatevergreatness that they're destined
for.
They need a chance to walk intothat, just how you're doing.
I mean, you were an attorney,you already had a great career
and now you've taken it even astep further to raise awareness
(01:00:02):
and get this information outhere.
So you're working on both ends.
You are helping after the fact,when things go wrong, but
you're giving people theknowledge to say, hey, this
doesn't have to be your story,this was someone's story, it
doesn't have to be the same foryou.
So thank you for all that youare doing.
(01:00:24):
Um, if someone wanted tocontact you.
Uh, what would be the best wayto contact you?
Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
Always.
My website is definitely thebest way.
It has the contact information,my email, which goes to my
phone.
If anybody needs it right now,though, it's gm at GinaMundycom.
Again, it's on my website.
It literally goes to my phone.
So if you email me, it'll saynew contact message, and I'm
(01:00:53):
going to look because I do lovehearing from people, especially
if they've read my book or I geta lot.
Even health care workers willbe like oh my goodness, I read
your book or come on my podcastor you know whatnot, but
definitely the best way willalways be that website and then
purchasing the book is the bestway.
It be that website and thenpurchasing the book is best way
(01:01:14):
is Amazon.
Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
All right, thank you so much and we'll definitely put
that in the show descriptionwhen we release this episode.
Thank you so much for your timeand your insight and your
insight and I just really lovethe show and I can't wait for
(01:01:37):
everyone to hear your story andhear this episode.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
Oh, deloren, thank you so much for having me.
I'm just curious to see whatyou're going to make for the
title of the show.
It's going to be like thechildbirth attorney complete
family disaster, much, muchdifferent than her Instagram
account makes her out to be.
(01:01:59):
You know what I love, whatyou're doing.
I'm so comfortable.
You mentioned cool as acucumber.
You made me cool as a cucumber.
I'm a little more on edge orwhatever, but your voice, like
the way you talk, what you say,I think is just incredible.
I learned so much just sittinghere.
You know listening to you.
(01:02:20):
So you know, thank you for mykudos, but kudos to you because
I know families that listen toyou.
Your episode, episodes, I meanthis is great.
This is really great stuff forfamilies.
So, thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
Thank you, I really appreciate it and I think we're
on the same mission.
Just get the information outthere and let's empower moms and
families.
So thank you so much, Iappreciate it.
Hey everyone, it's yourfavorite BCBAD here, dr DeLoren,
and I'm here to ask you to helpus continue making great
(01:02:54):
content for listeners everywhereby visiting wwwforshittymomscom
, where you can make a monthlycontribution.
Also, visit us on Instagram,youtube, facebook and TikTok at
Foreshitty Moms and that'sshitty, with an X, not an I.
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