April 5, 2024 • 41 mins
Welcome to a new episode of For The Creatives podcast, presenting a heartening life story of a creative entrepreneur, Lili Jacobson, who's a gifted contemporary First Nations artist. Engage in revealing conversations that cover how Lili channels her passion for art, her innovative use of polymer clay, and the peaceful refuge she finds in her craft. We delve deep into the intersection of mental health and creativity, and the essence of her connection to her community.
Please note!! This episode discusses sensitive (potentially triggering) subjects related to mental health. It's a raw and real look at the life of a creative entrepreneur.
Uncover Lili's journey of self-discovery through her art, her evolution from a hobbyist to a full-time entrepreneur, and the intimate connections she establishes with customers. Learn about her inspirational trip to Japan that sparked an appreciation for beauty and culture, and her exploration into her First Nations heritage that profoundly influenced her work. Gain insights into her transition from crafting to selling art, her business development, and how she navigates current global issues that affect her wellbeing and artistry.
Experience a deep dive into Lili's struggles as she started her life in Sunny Coast, dealing with financial constraints and navigating through uncharted entrepreneurial territory. Learn about her significant breakthrough when 'Buy From The Bush' brought her work to the limelight, abruptly skyrocketing her fan base and sales. Her candid testimony on mental health and tenacity is a touchstone to anyone grappling with personal challenges.
Moreover, partake in a personal journey where Lili embraces and enriches her mixed First Nations heritage defying society's covert racism. Her inspiring narratives on resilience, community, self-preservation, and turning adversities into opportunities for growth are lessons to reflect upon.
Step into Lili’s life of transformation, from fighting for survival during her personal breakdown to reinventing herself using art as a healing platform. Gain insights into the impact of mentorship in her growth, her plans to expand into fine art and sculptures, all steeped in her Indigenous stories. Embark on a multilayered journey of an artist, whose creations go beyond mere ornamentation, eloquently narrating tales of resilience, reinvention, and cultural identity.
Wattle Woman // Lili Jacobsen
https://www.instagram.com/wattlewoman/
https://www.wattlewoman.com.au/
For The Creatives Podcast
https://www.instagram.com/forthecreativespodcast/
Elisha Taderera
https://www.instagram.com/nachyoafro
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome back to the For The Creatives podcast. In today's episode,
I'm joined by the incredibly talented Lily Jacobson, the creative force behind Wattle Woman.
Lily Jacobson is a contemporary First Nations artist known for her unique craft
using polymer clay to sculpt accessories under her brand.
We chat about art as a form of healing, the journey of discovering one's identity
(00:24):
through creativity, and how Lily has been building community through art.
But please note, this episode discusses sensitive subjects related to mental health.
It's a raw and real look at the life of a creative entrepreneur.
If you're ready to be inspired, let's get into it.
Lily, what drives your passion? What drives my passion?
(00:44):
I started doing my craft, which is using polymer clay and to sculpt earrings.
I started with earrings. hearings and what really drove me
first was like the therapeutic process of
actually making something and it was absolutely like
a side hustle for ages I was actually working as a
barista just at Pacific yeah so I was about
(01:07):
18 and I started creating on the side and
then I realized oh my goodness I can actually sell
this and make a lot of money and so
that was a really big passion that always
helps yeah i was like oh my goodness i don't have
to work for the man i can work for the
what a woman but no
(01:27):
that's really what started it was that i just
needed something to calm my mind and then
once i started actually selling my work and meeting
new people when they bought my work it really
was amazing to see like how much joy that they
actually got from wearing them yeah you know the earrings they felt
really pretty and when i first started i was exploring my
(01:49):
own identity and i was not well i wasn't really
well mentally so starting that craft
i think people really resonated with seeing me develop as a person for like
an 18 year old and you could really see the progress my mental health got better
yeah so that's what started it and then from there the community just got crazy
(02:09):
and now i've got some diehard wattle women that's That's so good.
So people, they weren't just saying the product, they were also like buying
into the person behind the product.
Yeah. I think that is a lot of successful business models as well.
Like buying into the person that makes the product or behind the brand or the
story or the message, you know, that always draws people in.
(02:33):
And your brand is Wattle Woman. Yeah. Where did that come from?
Yeah, my mum was a florist and so I grew up with a lot of flowers in our house.
She would take on jobs for weddings and then have hundreds of bouquets there, you know.
Yeah. So, I was really inspired by flowers and then I really want something native to Australia.
(02:53):
So, Acacia, the wattle. And then I started diving into what am I going to call
my business name, you know.
And wattle acacia has been
used for hundreds of thousands of years by the indigenous people
for food medicine to get fish
out to stun the fish in the pond but the main reason is because we have a big
(03:15):
wattle tree in my backyard yeah yeah and i just was like this is perfect i love
yellow just makes me really happy so many reasons but yeah and then woman it
just really sounded sounded right and I could script it really well.
Yeah. It's also WW is flows.
Yeah. What a woman. And then people can go, what a woman, you know, what's a woman?
(03:36):
Oh, okay. I'm really not on it.
No, I got to stop. No, that's good. That's so good.
Yeah. That's a really nice story behind the name. And with your personal creative
journey, how has that evolved over time?
Can you share a bit about that? Yeah. Yeah. So, well, I just was not mentally
stable growing up as a kid.
(03:58):
You knew me from when I was 13 and you could just tell I was just always out
of the house and like skating around town.
I could tell you every street in Bundy just from skating it probably late at
night or something naughty.
But I really did not have an outlet for all that energy.
So, I'd just harness it and put it into something very naughty.
(04:18):
And in Bundy, there's not really much to do as a kid.
Go down to Bugarra, go you know the beach and not a
lot of good things yeah not a lot of good stuff but
we found you know some good ways to express
we both went to youth yeah and like met at the church like there wasn't many
ways to harness that energy that was negative and I always like crave that community
(04:39):
that's why I liked going to youth because there was a bunch of kids hanging
out but really nice people yeah I I just, once I turned 17,
I'm like, okay, I need to get some sort of creative thing happening in my life.
Yeah. And I can paint, but.
I just don't like painting too much. I'm more fidgety. I needed to sculpt.
I think we were talking briefly the other day about how, because around that
(05:03):
time when I had the clothing store.
Yeah. And I think once or twice you came in to the back with the canvas and
like was painting in the back.
That's so cool. Yeah. I love looking back on that. I had that painting for years.
It's so neon. That was such my style back there. Just really psychedelic and just messy.
You should have seen my books as a kid, like dark drawings and
(05:25):
just completely the opposite of what i do now
do you think that was a reflection like you're saying of a
bit of where your mental state was at yeah yeah it's always
like art is that it's just such a reflection of your mind so you were touching
on that back around when you're 17 18 trying to find a creative outlet and you
were doing a bit of painting but it wasn't your the thing you loved doing so
(05:46):
i definitely did not enjoy painting and then i I just couldn't find the right medium.
So I tried ceramics, but it was, you know, like regular clay. It was just so messy.
And I didn't get what I wanted straight away.
But polymer clay, because you have to take it to a few firings and stuff like that.
But polymer clay was like this new, not really a new medium,
(06:07):
but it was popular at the time.
I think it was 2018 or 2019. It was really popular.
And that's how a lot of people in my fields have gained like tens of followers because they got in.
In they got in at the right time that's like a whole thing like people get
into something you know yeah then they take off like when
the internet started and youtube and there's all those emo
(06:28):
hair people you know oh my gosh
yes but yeah i found that paul mcclay was really good for me and my earrings
were terrible oh my goodness they were awful but i didn't care it wasn't about
that i just started yeah and that was like not even difficult for me because
it was just so fun and and colourful and...
(06:50):
Just the act of doing it was really, really fun. And as I learned how to sculpt
and what I was going to sculpt, then I got really passionate about it.
I did it as a craft for a year.
Yeah. And then I went on, that was my gap year, you know.
Creative gap year. Yeah, before you're supposed to go to uni, as they all say.
(07:10):
But I was working at the cafe and I was just not really enjoying it.
So I ended up going to Japan, actually, at the end of that year.
And I got really inspired by everything there, the culture, everything.
And lots of craft. There's always lots of handmade crafts there. It was so beautiful.
And just everything is done with beauty there. And I'm like,
(07:30):
this is the sort of beauty I want in my life. I want the color. I want the culture.
And then it really made me reflect on Australia and I'm like, what culture do we have?
What culture do I have? You know, who am I?
You know i got really frustrated that i
didn't know who i was you know after
i went there because it's so different it's like a whole nother world
(07:52):
and there's like people have deep-rooted sense of
their cultural heritage and where they're from maybe not
everyone but yeah no certainly not australians oh
yeah in japan yeah in japan they're everything they do is done with culture
yeah and it's done with years ancient culture but yeah i reflected on australia
(08:12):
and i'm like you know we We are such a newly colonized country and we're still
baby steps and we're sifting out our culture and what's acceptable and what's not.
And then we've got all these younger generation coming up like me who has Indigenous
blood and also, you know, white Australian blood, whether that be Dutch,
(08:32):
English, German, all these different fancy things.
And we're getting all these mixes of beautiful people, but they don't really
have a strong culture. and that really messes with your identity.
Yeah, 100%. Yeah, that was a really big problem for me. That's during school.
I really struggled with that. And when I started sculpting around that time,
(08:54):
I got back and I really started questioning my whole identity.
I was like, what am I going to sculpt? Who am I?
And so I really started diving into my father's side of the family and tried
to reconnect with them. Yeah.
Because Aboriginal culture is deeply intertwined with family.
And then I started painting. I started learning about my father's heritage and
(09:15):
where he came from and, you know, what they do.
And then I started remembering all this stuff as a child, like going mud crabbing.
Oh, wow. I totally blocked it out. I don't know. I was just dealing with a lot. Yeah.
And so, I started painting like those stories, whether that just be patterns
or techniques or dot painting or whatever it may be. And people loved that.
They loved seeing me finally connect with that part of me fully. Yeah.
(09:39):
And it was such a journey. It's still a journey. i'm still learning i'm
only 21 and i've just come so far
so that's basically where it kicked off
when i was like i'm gonna do i'm gonna sculpt florals and
stories as much as i can because i love the sculpting but i'm gonna paint and
resin like i've done with these ones yeah yeah so just painted uncle ash uncle
(10:01):
ashley showed me this cross hatching technique and it's so so cool i love it
so it's like cross hatching yes also like lines that are going across each other
it's going going that way.
And this was a technique that he taught me and it's just about the act of doing it.
Yeah. That was so powerful to me. Just the act of doing something creative and
the lines, there's lots of, what are they, parallel or, yeah, lots of parallel lines.
(10:25):
And that's so spiritual for him to teach me how to do that. Even though it's like just lines.
Yeah. It has a whole different meaning for, you know, my family. I love that. I love that.
Well, I really like what you were saying as well around how when When you went
to Japan and you saw the beauty there and you were like, how can I have that in my life?
And that's like when that started your journey, I guess, embracing and exploring
(10:46):
your sort of heritage and culture.
And now that beauty that you saw in some other place from the creativity there,
you've now have in your life, but you're also sharing with other people as well. I think that's amazing.
Yeah, it's so good. I love being able to share what I can see,
you know, what I can experience and...
It's so rewarding. I love it because, yeah, I like to sculpt and paint what
(11:11):
I see or experience in my life.
And in Aboriginal culture, you're not allowed to tell stories that aren't yours.
So, I didn't grow up with a lot of stories. I didn't grow up with my elders
around because my mum basically raised me.
My mum's side of the family was from Tata Chocolate. So, shout out to, is it Tara?
To Melanice, who's my auntie. Your mum though? My mum's Tara.
(11:33):
Tara. Yeah, I remember the name. Tara. Shout out to Tara, first of all.
Yeah, shout out Starra. She works at the art gallery, actually.
She just started, yeah. Okay, nice. And she's a graphic designer.
She helped me a lot developing my brand as well.
So, I was going to ask at what point did you delve deep into recognizing and
exploring a First Nations heritage and culture, but you've already answered that, which is amazing.
Yeah, it's good. When did you transition from creating art to selling it and building the business?
(11:59):
Like, how did it turn from a passion project to a business that is actually
making money and you're like, oh, I can actually, I don't need to work.
I can actually work, yeah, live off the business. It's a funny story because
after my gap year, I came back to Bundaberg and I was like, okay,
I got to do something with my life.
And my mum and my whole family were like, go to uni. Like, it'd be a great experience for you.
(12:23):
And I was like, oh, I don't know anything I really want to study. My brother was in uni.
So, right, just pay 40 grand and figure it out later. Don't even get me started
on that. That is ridiculous. Ridiculous.
Yeah. I just can't believe it. I can't believe that's the next cog in the system.
You finish school, you go to uni, you get some sort of job that you'll probably
hate in 10 years, you know.
You don't even know what you want to do when you get out of school.
(12:44):
Or like you were saying, in your situation, you're still figuring out your own
identity and who you are and trying to tap into that.
You're trying to figure out the world, like your world view.
And I tell you what, I turned, I think I, when was 2020?
Years ago. Yeah, years ago, yeah.
I turned 19 in 2020 and I moved to Sunshine Coast to do uni.
(13:06):
Yeah. So I studied OT for two years.
I studied occupational. I did not know that. Yeah. Okay. Oh my gosh.
I studied occupational therapy for two years and I did love studying it.
But I always wanted to do like an art therapy degree or something and be able
to relate to kids and, you know, heal through art because that's really what healed me.
(13:27):
But then I suffered at Sunshine Coast because I got there in 2020 hit and my
worldview was just so skewed because I thought, wow, the world's going to end for real.
And I just wasn't coping with myself, my own identity, and then it felt the
world was going to collapse. And then the C word happened.
Yeah. So, we're not going to say that word, but it happened. It dropped.
(13:49):
The penny dropped. and that was really challenging for me because I did dive
down into the rabbit hole because I'm trying to figure out my world view and
I didn't really have the most open support of open conversation.
It was just very strict when I talked to any of my people around me about it
and it wasn't really an open conversation where I'm very open of a person and
(14:13):
I'm very open to many different things and that was really challenging.
I went to Sunny Coast and I had had no friends. I just got, I just started uni.
No support system. Yeah. I had no support system. We just, my partner and I
moved there and, you know, he was struggling to find a job and we were just not doing well.
And so I was like, okay, I gotta make some money somehow.
And so I was like, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to try and sell these earrings. Hardcore.
(14:37):
Yeah. That's when I really started to go, okay, I'm going to do this.
I'm going to make money because previously just before that I got shared like
half, like six months ago before I moved to the sunny coast,
I got shared by Buy From The Bush.
Do you know that place? It's got about a quarter of a million followers online
now. What's it called again?
Buy From The Bush. They just share your page and say nice things about it and
(15:02):
it reaches a lot of people. When it first started, it was wild.
That day, because I already had an online store, but I was just slowly going
at it because I was just a side.
Yeah, growing. Yeah. And I was building my audience, trying to figure out myself,
my life, trying to get my products right because at the start, products were no good.
It they would break or I'd cook them thin enough like too thin
or just what I wasn't you know
(15:24):
what my head wasn't it's like with any new skill as well you've got to yeah
develop it yeah I'm sure there's a few people I know locally that have like
the OG water woman earrings and they're just like thin as thin the glue is coming
off they're five years old I'm like and they've still got them I don't wear
these I just hang them because they're pretty and when you're famous in 10 years
then And then I'll sell them.
I'm like, oh, I love that.
(15:46):
But I got shared by From the Bush and I gained heaps.
I don't gain heaps, but at the time I was like, wow, I've got like 1,500 extra
followers and that made a massive difference on my sales because people,
once I get people's attention, they usually stay with me and they're interested
because they like to see the journey.
It's quite unique, this sort of journey, basically what I've just said to you. And it's a good story.
(16:09):
It's a good story. And visually appealing art as well. Yeah,
it's visually appealing and then they can wear it.
And I think they like to show that off and then they can talk about it.
And it's quite a good talking point because I feel like my little story has
a lot of different talking points, you know, mental health.
Yeah. And I've spoken a lot about dealing with some whack sort of racism within
(16:29):
school and community and, yeah, just like some, yeah, backwards sort of stuff.
Has that more so been since you've been stepping out and embracing your First
Nations heritage? Yeah, yeah. Yes.
It's just tricky because I don't look Aboriginal and I have a lot of different heritage.
(16:50):
My family is, my dad's side is Sri Lankan.
Yeah, my dad's side is Sri Lankan and Aboriginal and a little bit of Torres
Strait Islander in there, which I'm just learning about that because we don't have records.
They don't keep records. I've done all the ancestry and stuff like that,
but it's just like a brick wall. It's ridiculous.
(17:11):
I don't know if that happens often, but with my mum's side, it goes like all
the way back. Way back to this island.
The 16th cousin from the Queen, yeah. Yeah, but everyone's, someone's descendant
from a queen, you know, there's, I reckon there's a lot of people,
you know, descendants from royalty.
There's a whole conversation we could have there. Anyway, I don't even get started,
(17:33):
oh my gosh, this is controversial. Start on the monarchy. Oh my goodness.
But yeah, people really related to that story, that story.
But yeah, I definitely have dealt with a lot of different sort
of racism because I'm fair skinned within the
aboriginal community there's just instant ostracized
you know asian being like instantly
(17:55):
ostracized just for being like light-skinned yeah
let alone who's your mob when that question
comes about my heritage always gets thrown up in the air my father's an apo
so they're big fishermen and crabbers all along east coast and up gladstone
all the way down really really down to Sunshine Coast because my family is from
(18:18):
Sunshine Coast, so Gubby or Cavi,
but we just call it Gubby Gubby because that's what they prefer.
But it's like really a massive Aboriginal land in Bundy.
And from Bundy to Gladstone, we've got four tribes, four or five tribes,
and then along inland a bit. But Sunny Coast is like this massive one.
And then there's, I think it's Budgelung, which is Gold Coast.
(18:39):
Yeah, my family comes all the way up from there. But the problem is just that
we've got Sri Lankan blood in us.
And so I've been called mudblood like a freaking Harry Potter. I was going to say.
I'm like, dude, are you seriously out here? I went to Shalom. Yeah.
And I used to do acknowledgement of country because, okay, I could talk about this for ages, but.
(19:00):
So, I went to a private school in Bundy. Is it private?
Yeah. It's a private Catholic. Shalom, yeah, Catholic private school. It's a Catholic school.
And I think when I was there, I graduated in 2018 and there was something rather
of less than 15 kids of Indigenous descent,
which sort of makes sense because socioeconomically Indigenous people can't
really afford to send their kids to private schools.
(19:23):
But there, alas, there were kids there. But I was like by far the fairest of them all.
But I would be the only one, there was a few others, but in my grade I would
be the only one that would do
an acknowledgement of country just because I had the confidence to do it.
Yeah. And I loved the teacher, the Indigenous teacher there.
But I would get bullied so bad for doing that from white kids, just Aussie kids.
(19:50):
It's so old Australian racism. They would call me like, oh, your mum's no white.
What are you doing identifying like that? Who are you? So I'd get thrown all
these terrible names and you're like, am I? And you start questioning yourself.
And my dad's side of the family wasn't really around in a healthy way.
Yeah. So it was like, what?
Who am I? Sort of thing. So it really does, it feels terrible.
(20:15):
I go to Kepnock, I go to the schools and just talk to the kids,
whether that be about like entrepreneurial product development or,
yeah, I did this thing Lighting the Spark and it was just the First Nations kids.
Kids and we just had a chat about what i actually do
and i was like you don't have to go to uni and all this stuff
and teachers were like hey every time yeah
(20:37):
they'll invite they'll be like we want to talk about entrepreneurship not all
the teachers but sometimes um and then they're and then as soon as you start
talking about entrepreneurship they're like hey we need to keep those scores
up what is it it's not op anymore it's it's uh yeah i think we're at a From my perspective,
we're at a turning point where it's like we, most of us like teachers,
(20:58):
schools, people know that education is important.
Education is great. Teachers are great, hopefully. Yeah.
This current schooling system is broken. It's broken, hey. And we need to do
something different and change the way we do things. Yeah. Yeah. So interesting.
Since 2020, I've just been focusing on what's in front of me and what I can trust for my own eyes.
(21:21):
Focusing on my life, my family, and also my community, like really important.
Yeah, I was just talking to you the other day that I just did not feel a sense
of community in my hometown here at all. Has that changed?
Yeah, I think it has changed. I think that maybe because of the mindset that I have now.
Because every time I see somebody that I like, I'll just talk to them.
(21:44):
And like yesterday, today actually, I met this really cool lady.
She had dreads. She has gray hair.
And one of those cool older ladies that just goes, you know what,
stuff it. I'm going to go fully gray.
And she got dreads and the most beautiful. And I just saw her instantly.
I'm like, hey, you know what? You would love to come down to the pottery studio
and do some pottery. I know you would because I was chatting to her for a while.
(22:05):
I better kill her. And then she's like, oh, that would be so good. I'm feeling terrible.
I'm like, oh, come down, you know, I'm going to be down there today.
And she came on down and I was like, oh, another woman building the community.
So, maybe that's just me. That's my mindset. That's like building community.
I love that. I'm just thinking here, obviously when you're younger,
you usually don't have the know-how or the energy or the wisdom,
(22:28):
especially if you're struggling to do that yourself, to build your own community.
So you need other people but then as you mature and grow
you start to have a bit more responsibility as well
to reach out to people as well and to build community and
i think that's amazing because not every everybody does that yeah yeah you
know like you could see it if you're really intuitive you
could see that she was struggling and you have to it's everyone's responsibility
(22:50):
to take care of each other even though this town is grown by 12 000 or something
ridiculous hello victorians out there yeah but yeah like we welcome them so
slightly changing yes the direction.
I have a question. If you could share some wisdom with your 18-year-old self.
Oh, my gosh. What would you say?
(23:12):
Oh, my goodness. Just you need to get out of your situation and that will really
help you find out who you actually want to be and who you're capable of being
because I just was so dark at that time.
But as soon as I got out of that situation and that mindset,
really, not so much situation but mindset you got
(23:34):
to keep your spirits really high because there's always something good
and there's always tomorrow if you ever have a really bad day just go to bed
because there's always tomorrow just knock it out just say good night and just
go to bed because you really there's been time like i didn't think that i would
make it to 21 at this age like i was just so depressed depressed, so sad.
(23:57):
And now I'm just like, how good on you for just going to bed.
Because there's always a new day to try and feel better. And also making someone
else's day will make your day.
Yeah. Because life is really hard and it's meant to be.
Do you ever have those moments where you like think back to a version of your
(24:17):
younger self and you're like, she would be so proud of what I've done or where
we are right now. She'd be so shocked.
She'd be shocked to see me alive, let alone thriving.
Like, it's not like I don't struggle. Yeah, definitely. It's just that I'm here
still and, you know, we're out here.
We're out here making bank. We're out here doing what we love. Yeah.
(24:39):
And you're not, like, obviously, we still all have struggles and we will have struggles.
But you're not, I guess, would you say you're not in a deep pit where you don't know where the light is?
Yeah. Or you're not sure where. It's so easy to get into a dark,
deep pit of just despair.
I just have to laugh because like I can't imagine getting myself into a pit like that again.
(25:00):
And you just need to focus on your environment and your mindset and doing something,
even if it's one thing that makes you love life, whether that be taking a dog
for a walk or something like that.
So, with that, if there's someone listening who they might be in a similar position
to to where you felt you were years ago.
One of the big changes for you was when you went to Japan, I think you were
(25:22):
saying, and started thinking more about your identity and heritage,
but then you experienced moving to Sunshine Coast and the challenges there.
What do you think were like one or two of the key things that helped you change
your situation or the environment that you were in?
I actually, it's a really funny story, but it's pretty crazy.
I actually have Tourette's, But I'm very good at hiding it very much.
(25:45):
Thank you to a special medicine that is very natural. It's helped me so much.
I, yeah, I had a full nervous breakdown when I was 19, when I came back from
Sunny Coast, my whole body shut down and I was unable to move for six months.
I couldn't get out of bed.
And I like had all these issues. Everyone, like my family, it was just not very
(26:08):
supportive. They thought I was faking this illness.
And I really struggled with that
because I felt like I was faking my whole life because of my identity.
And I was really struggling to deal with life. life
and then in 2020 it was all it all just happened at
the same time and my body just said no stuff you i'm
shutting down and i like full developed my
(26:28):
Tourette's because i just had ticks all my life like a tick disorder but
then i just couldn't function for the better half of a year so
that's what stopped me wow that's what stopped me and
then i had a full reset and then i started setting really
hard boundaries yeah with the people in my life
and having more respect for myself
of what you actually do deserve like that's what
(26:49):
really helped me because my environment was no good and then
my mindset was no good because of it but i had a full i
had to my ego had to die because i couldn't i
tell you this i could not walk into coals without screaming i have the c word
i have corona but i could not that was the worst tick i ever had and i actually
(27:10):
had to get security there to come take me out wow not take me out like dead
like knock me out but they had had to take me out and they thought I was like
infected, which was awful.
But I couldn't go to the shops, yeah, so. It's pretty hectic.
Pretty good reset though. So, yeah, what was, do you mind, is that something
you can share? What was a reset? What triggered a reset?
Well, I just kept putting myself in a really bad position, like abusing different
(27:32):
sort of substances, whether it be alcohol, whatever.
And I was in a house, I put myself in a position where I was trying,
like I was in a house I rented and then I would have people come stay with me.
And I think I purposefully put myself in that position to hit some sort of low
because I was feeling so bad in my mindset that my physical changed.
(27:52):
And you just do. If you've ever been in that sort of dark situation,
you do things that make you feel terrible or hurt yourself in a way that really damages your brain.
And I think that's what I might have done was that I actually just damaged my
brain to a point where I wasn't even like a human anymore.
I wasn't myself. self your nervous system was like
(28:13):
my nervous system i've been in fight
or flight for years just survival mode even though
my life didn't feel i felt like my issues
weren't that big but looking back they were massive yeah
you just don't you're just in survival mode and you don't
think about that sort of stuff you're just in it to survive and
only recently when i had that nervous breakdown all my
(28:35):
relationships broke down because i wasn't putting this
mask on anymore more because every time I would be in
front of my mum I would be putting this mask on to be
what I wanted for her or whether that be for my dad
or whether that be for my what'll try at the time I was actually really suffering
and then you know for every one of my life I was putting all these masks on
because I didn't actually know who I was yeah and then I had a full nervous
(28:58):
breakdown because I had to get rid of all the masks because I just broke I broke
my brain could not fit into any little.
Any bubble so then i had to literally start from the bottom up
again and that was build your way back up probably
the hardest thing i ever did yeah wow i had to
learn how to walk again and that was just awful
i would never wish that and then from there i just have
(29:20):
Tourette's now it's all right i'm quite good at suppressing it
but my cheeks are going really red because when you talk about
it it comes up okay because i can really suppress
it thinking about it is that yeah we're talking about it so.
Yeah I'm just like oh yeah well thank.
You for sharing that's okay um since you started
I guess building your way building this new life figuring out
(29:41):
who you are and I guess climbing out of that pit have
you had any sort of pivotal support or mentors
or I guess people that have helped guide you or help you along
the way yeah so my relationship with
my mum's family is very good when
it comes to business because they're so supportive in that
business sense because they're all entrepreneurs themselves like my mom's
(30:03):
she's done a graphic designing business for 30 25 years and
then chocolate the chocolate shop my auntie and her father
had the first chocolate shop jake's candy so there's my
grandma has like a sewing business yeah so everyone in my family
it's like a rite of passage to start a business so i really did have
a lot of support going into it but i felt a bit pressured
to do it yeah which is not usually a normal thing
(30:25):
i don't don't think a lot of people would experience that like to feel pressure to
succeed or to start a new business like
is that i feel like it might be different for different people if
you've got like you're saying you've had family members who have owned businesses
before similar to if you've got a family that's always
been in medicine you've got that pressure there to live up
to some sort of unspoken expectation if that
(30:46):
makes sense like the expectation to go to uni or something it's an
unspoken sort of thing if everyone's gone to uni in your family
then it just yeah makes sense you'd feel that pressure
too yeah yeah but they were really good and supportive but
you know that was just another mask that i was trying to fit into that.
I just could not at the time but my mom really helped me with my brand development.
(31:06):
And the colors the logos all the little bits and bobs that went into making
earrings so like the cards the packaging all the goodies all the big goodies
so that was really important because i really did develop a sense of of brand
awareness, which was really good.
And then my family on my dad's side does like Aboriginal art.
So I've had good support recently from my uncles, who is as dark as the night sky.
(31:32):
He's lovely. Uncle Ash, and he sells his pottery at the studio,
and he paints there all the time.
But he's getting quite old. So, he's teaching me all that he knows at the moment.
And that's like a big support for me because now that I'm able to learn it,
I'm able to go and paint it. Yeah. So, that's really cool.
That's really sweet. Yeah. So, there's lots of support out there from my family.
And has that been, I guess, therapeutic in a way on a personal level?
(31:56):
Yeah. Like creating and going through that process?
Yeah. And just relationship building. Yeah. Because I just have a terrible just
I'm really bad at cutting people off.
Sometimes I just really benefit from sitting with people and trying to build
a relationship with them and doing it through art really helps anything.
That's why I wanted to do art therapy because just talking, it's the most therapeutic thing.
(32:20):
Like we get a lot of people coming through the pottery studio groups of just women.
They come together and they just do something with their hands while they're
talking about their week and that's like their favourite thing ever.
Yeah, community, it's therapeutic. Yeah, that's really beautiful.
But yeah, as for mentors, I haven't, that's about it really.
I haven't really had too many mentors in the past.
(32:40):
I think like you're saying, you've got that, you're building that community
of different family members and other people and each of them has something
different that they input into your life and that you input into theirs.
Yeah. I think sometimes mentors and coaches are great and for different,
you know, skills and stuff that,
Sometimes we can go looking for that one mentor and we can be one mentor to turn our life around.
(33:01):
But if we have that community, you've got all these people in your life,
have all got different strengths and all these different things that they can
input and share. I think that's beautiful.
I think everything that you need to know is actually really inside yourself.
But by talking to other people, you are able to find that because you know what I mean?
I do think that Kim, the lady who owns the pottery studio, my cousin.
(33:22):
She's been a really big mentor for me.
Her mom just passed away a year ago and then she is a very spiritual person
and the spiritual lady told her that I was going to come into her life and I did magically.
It was like this really crazy experience. Anyway, it was this weird thing but
we really connected and she's like me but older and more experienced and very
(33:42):
experienced in business.
They had so many fish and chip shops up Gold Coast and down.
Do you remember the Boss Sushi here?
Do you remember Boss Sushi? It was a sushi place in Bagara where the bakery
was. Yes. Yeah, that was theirs. That was a while ago.
Yeah, and they did all the skills and stuff like that, but they had a really
big business and they've been really good at helping me with this studio at the moment.
(34:03):
So, really good. That's like my main mentor. I'd probably say like the one person. Yeah, yeah.
So, I have a question and it's one that I ask everyone that comes on. Okay.
And it's not that deep. Okay, I'm pretty sure we got a bit deep already.
It's how do you define creativity?
Oh, okay. Okay, I think the creative process, any creative process in art is all about layers.
(34:30):
I think it's all layers. Like when I do my slabs, I put the base layer and then I'll put the base layer.
I put the branches down. I put the leaves and the flowers and then I detail them all.
And creativity is like that. It really reflects your life and it's all about
you. How do you explain that? Yeah.
So creativity, did you say that? Yeah, creativity, just your own words, yeah.
(34:54):
Yeah, it's all about layers, everything that, not even just like literally but
spiritually, what am I going to do today?
What am I going to do that makes me feel good? That's a layer.
What am I going to do that people are going to like, people are going to resonate
with? There's all these different layers that go into creativity.
How am I going to do it? Am I going to be able to get up and actually do this?
Because making every day is a challenge in itself and that kills creativity
(35:17):
sometimes, Sometimes, but others thrive on it.
It's like some people love when they've got a creative hobby that just gives
them energy. But as soon as it turns into a job that they're going to do.
Oh my gosh. Yeah. Production.
Yes. It's a job for real. One day when I am rich, no, but one day when I got
my studio and I'm able to hire somebody, I'd like to get someone do work experience and pay them.
(35:41):
Yeah. But I would really like to work with ghouls or something. thing.
I just don't know how to go about it yet, but to do art assistant in the workshop or- Okay.
You know what I mean? Do a week with me. Like work experience in an art workshop.
Yeah. Because there's so much that goes involved and that's involved and goes
on and they can help me with my production and- Yeah.
Yeah. But also a really cool idea is I want to work with the schools and,
(36:03):
you know, like in grade 12, did you ever do art in grade 12?
I was homeschooled and I dropped out after grade 11. I did art in grade 11.
Yeah. Cool. They do like term art projects where you have to plan it all out.
Each student has to do the brainstorming process and then you just have to document every process.
But I thought because there's not many opportunities here in Bundaberg to do
it but I want to have a space in my studio where kids can do a mural for their end of grade 12,
(36:27):
you know, because then they can have that on their resume and I can be their
reference and give them that opportunity because I really want to do a public art.
I really want to do that whale wall. I said this in my last interview.
Watch me come out here next year
with this whale wall done. That would be amazing. It's not, yeah. man.
We'll have to check back when you're on the podcast next. Yes.
If I've done the right, we'll...
(36:50):
We'll get a photo of it. Lily, as we come to a close, I have a final question.
And I'm flipping the script here.
Is there a question you wish I would have asked?
And how would you answer it?
Yes. So, I wish that you'd asked, are you only doing just earrings?
Because there was a while there where I was like getting very sick of making earrings.
(37:13):
Because I've probably made probably about 5,000 to 10,000.
5,000 to 10,000? Probably about 5,000. Yeah, I reckon I've made 1,000 pairs of earrings this year.
Wow. Not even, yeah. With your own hands? Yeah, yeah, yeah. My hands,
they suffer for it. They suffer for it greatly.
I've got tendonitis and I do these stretches because these are like tools.
(37:34):
Yeah, definitely. These are tools, man.
Anyway, just look at my ratchet hands. They're maker's hands. So, I ain't got no nails.
I ain't got no fancy press-ons or anything. thing but yeah i would
like to i would like to keep making earrings because
i love it it's my bread and butter everyone loves it they can
wear it on their ears they can be high fashion but i
would definitely like to take them into like indigenous fashion week or something
(37:55):
on runway models and stuff as they walk down eventually but i also have been
like developing this new sort of art form that i haven't seen anywhere so okay
i actually just i'm actually like no no no I don't think people could do it.
I honestly don't think people could sculpt the way that I do because it's so detailed.
This artwork took me like 60 hours but i
(38:17):
won an award in winton in queensland so okay
i think is it a queensland no no no it's a
national prize but it's not like a big national art
prize but i won the emerging section it's still
a prize so i am technically a national an award
it was really
good it was the emerging section though so what
(38:38):
it is just like a slab of polymer mcclay and then
i sculpted a full story on it like a
full indigenous story on it sculpted oh
my gosh yeah and i won and i was so stoked but
i want to like i've just i've just
put i'm actually in a private exhibition at the moment
at the end of this month i've got a painting going in there
(38:58):
because i do painting as well i still submit and try
all the other mediums but i'm better at sculpting and
plus not a lot of people do it so yeah it's a lot harder so earrings and
then this new sculpting slab artworks i
call it so i frame them in like a
box shadow box frame and put some nice backing
on it whether that be like a nice canvas or something and then
(39:19):
either glass or no glass but yeah it's like
a whole new little art medium that they're just so beautiful
imagine yeah imagine like earrings but just fully a slab of it and a full story
and like a little didactic and everything but yeah next year when i get my studio
fully set up i'm going to i'm going to To fully start my adventure with like
(39:40):
fine art and little sculptures.
Because they look like little cave paintings, this little sculpture.
I just want people to know that. So, it's not just earrings.
Yeah, it's not just earrings. I don't want to be just reduced.
Like a jewellery maker, yeah. Even though the earrings are great. I know, they're great.
Thank you for coming on the podcast today. Thank you for sharing your story
and some of the raw moments.
And yeah, some of the honest moments of your journey.
(40:03):
Yeah, very honest. Yes. Yes, I love sharing my story because I think people relate to it in some way.
Yeah. There's a lot going on there. So, yeah.
And I'm sure obviously there's so much more as well behind all of everything
you've shared. There's a lot.
Pretty happy with where I'm at and where I'm going. And, yeah,
I'm really happy to be here. Thank you so much.
(40:23):
If people want to check out more of what you're doing, where can they go?
My Instagram tag handle is just Whattlewoman.
Yeah, Whattlewoman. Whattlewoman. Not What's a Woman. And just the same thing on Facebook as well.
Amazing. So, Whattlewoman on Facebook, not TikTok. No, no TikTok,
sorry. Not TikTok. Sorry, bar.
(40:45):
Facebook and your website. Yeah. Yeah. Or they could just Google Wattle Woman
and I'm sure it will come up. Yeah.
Something will pop up. Some women jumping with Wattle or something in the images.
For everyone listening, thank you so much for tuning in to the For the Creatives podcast.
There are so many podcasts out there and there is so much stuff competing for
our time. So, if you've stayed till the end, I appreciate you.
(41:07):
And if you found this episode interesting, share it with a friend,
leave a review, go check out Lily's stuff, and I'll see you on the next episode.
Welcome back to the For The Creatives podcast. In today's episode,
I'm joined by the incredibly talented Lily Jacobson, the creative force behind Wattle Woman.
Lily Jacobson is a contemporary First Nations artist known for her unique craft
using polymer clay to sculpt accessories under her brand.
We chat about art as a form of healing, the journey of discovering one's identity
(00:24):
through creativity, and how Lily has been building community through art.
But please note, this episode discusses sensitive subjects related to mental health.
It's a raw and real look at the life of a creative entrepreneur.
If you're ready to be inspired, let's get into it.
Lily, what drives your passion? What drives my passion?
(00:44):
I started doing my craft, which is using polymer clay and to sculpt earrings.
I started with earrings. hearings and what really drove me
first was like the therapeutic process of
actually making something and it was absolutely like
a side hustle for ages I was actually working as a
barista just at Pacific yeah so I was about
(01:07):
18 and I started creating on the side and
then I realized oh my goodness I can actually sell
this and make a lot of money and so
that was a really big passion that always
helps yeah i was like oh my goodness i don't have
to work for the man i can work for the
what a woman but no
(01:27):
that's really what started it was that i just
needed something to calm my mind and then
once i started actually selling my work and meeting
new people when they bought my work it really
was amazing to see like how much joy that they
actually got from wearing them yeah you know the earrings they felt
really pretty and when i first started i was exploring my
(01:49):
own identity and i was not well i wasn't really
well mentally so starting that craft
i think people really resonated with seeing me develop as a person for like
an 18 year old and you could really see the progress my mental health got better
yeah so that's what started it and then from there the community just got crazy
(02:09):
and now i've got some diehard wattle women that's That's so good.
So people, they weren't just saying the product, they were also like buying
into the person behind the product.
Yeah. I think that is a lot of successful business models as well.
Like buying into the person that makes the product or behind the brand or the
story or the message, you know, that always draws people in.
(02:33):
And your brand is Wattle Woman. Yeah. Where did that come from?
Yeah, my mum was a florist and so I grew up with a lot of flowers in our house.
She would take on jobs for weddings and then have hundreds of bouquets there, you know.
Yeah. So, I was really inspired by flowers and then I really want something native to Australia.
(02:53):
So, Acacia, the wattle. And then I started diving into what am I going to call
my business name, you know.
And wattle acacia has been
used for hundreds of thousands of years by the indigenous people
for food medicine to get fish
out to stun the fish in the pond but the main reason is because we have a big
(03:15):
wattle tree in my backyard yeah yeah and i just was like this is perfect i love
yellow just makes me really happy so many reasons but yeah and then woman it
just really sounded sounded right and I could script it really well.
Yeah. It's also WW is flows.
Yeah. What a woman. And then people can go, what a woman, you know, what's a woman?
(03:36):
Oh, okay. I'm really not on it.
No, I got to stop. No, that's good. That's so good.
Yeah. That's a really nice story behind the name. And with your personal creative
journey, how has that evolved over time?
Can you share a bit about that? Yeah. Yeah. So, well, I just was not mentally
stable growing up as a kid.
(03:58):
You knew me from when I was 13 and you could just tell I was just always out
of the house and like skating around town.
I could tell you every street in Bundy just from skating it probably late at
night or something naughty.
But I really did not have an outlet for all that energy.
So, I'd just harness it and put it into something very naughty.
(04:18):
And in Bundy, there's not really much to do as a kid.
Go down to Bugarra, go you know the beach and not a
lot of good things yeah not a lot of good stuff but
we found you know some good ways to express
we both went to youth yeah and like met at the church like there wasn't many
ways to harness that energy that was negative and I always like crave that community
(04:39):
that's why I liked going to youth because there was a bunch of kids hanging
out but really nice people yeah I I just, once I turned 17,
I'm like, okay, I need to get some sort of creative thing happening in my life.
Yeah. And I can paint, but.
I just don't like painting too much. I'm more fidgety. I needed to sculpt.
I think we were talking briefly the other day about how, because around that
(05:03):
time when I had the clothing store.
Yeah. And I think once or twice you came in to the back with the canvas and
like was painting in the back.
That's so cool. Yeah. I love looking back on that. I had that painting for years.
It's so neon. That was such my style back there. Just really psychedelic and just messy.
You should have seen my books as a kid, like dark drawings and
(05:25):
just completely the opposite of what i do now
do you think that was a reflection like you're saying of a
bit of where your mental state was at yeah yeah it's always
like art is that it's just such a reflection of your mind so you were touching
on that back around when you're 17 18 trying to find a creative outlet and you
were doing a bit of painting but it wasn't your the thing you loved doing so
(05:46):
i definitely did not enjoy painting and then i I just couldn't find the right medium.
So I tried ceramics, but it was, you know, like regular clay. It was just so messy.
And I didn't get what I wanted straight away.
But polymer clay, because you have to take it to a few firings and stuff like that.
But polymer clay was like this new, not really a new medium,
(06:07):
but it was popular at the time.
I think it was 2018 or 2019. It was really popular.
And that's how a lot of people in my fields have gained like tens of followers because they got in.
In they got in at the right time that's like a whole thing like people get
into something you know yeah then they take off like when
the internet started and youtube and there's all those emo
(06:28):
hair people you know oh my gosh
yes but yeah i found that paul mcclay was really good for me and my earrings
were terrible oh my goodness they were awful but i didn't care it wasn't about
that i just started yeah and that was like not even difficult for me because
it was just so fun and and colourful and...
(06:50):
Just the act of doing it was really, really fun. And as I learned how to sculpt
and what I was going to sculpt, then I got really passionate about it.
I did it as a craft for a year.
Yeah. And then I went on, that was my gap year, you know.
Creative gap year. Yeah, before you're supposed to go to uni, as they all say.
(07:10):
But I was working at the cafe and I was just not really enjoying it.
So I ended up going to Japan, actually, at the end of that year.
And I got really inspired by everything there, the culture, everything.
And lots of craft. There's always lots of handmade crafts there. It was so beautiful.
And just everything is done with beauty there. And I'm like,
(07:30):
this is the sort of beauty I want in my life. I want the color. I want the culture.
And then it really made me reflect on Australia and I'm like, what culture do we have?
What culture do I have? You know, who am I?
You know i got really frustrated that i
didn't know who i was you know after
i went there because it's so different it's like a whole nother world
(07:52):
and there's like people have deep-rooted sense of
their cultural heritage and where they're from maybe not
everyone but yeah no certainly not australians oh
yeah in japan yeah in japan they're everything they do is done with culture
yeah and it's done with years ancient culture but yeah i reflected on australia
(08:12):
and i'm like you know we We are such a newly colonized country and we're still
baby steps and we're sifting out our culture and what's acceptable and what's not.
And then we've got all these younger generation coming up like me who has Indigenous
blood and also, you know, white Australian blood, whether that be Dutch,
(08:32):
English, German, all these different fancy things.
And we're getting all these mixes of beautiful people, but they don't really
have a strong culture. and that really messes with your identity.
Yeah, 100%. Yeah, that was a really big problem for me. That's during school.
I really struggled with that. And when I started sculpting around that time,
(08:54):
I got back and I really started questioning my whole identity.
I was like, what am I going to sculpt? Who am I?
And so I really started diving into my father's side of the family and tried
to reconnect with them. Yeah.
Because Aboriginal culture is deeply intertwined with family.
And then I started painting. I started learning about my father's heritage and
(09:15):
where he came from and, you know, what they do.
And then I started remembering all this stuff as a child, like going mud crabbing.
Oh, wow. I totally blocked it out. I don't know. I was just dealing with a lot. Yeah.
And so, I started painting like those stories, whether that just be patterns
or techniques or dot painting or whatever it may be. And people loved that.
They loved seeing me finally connect with that part of me fully. Yeah.
(09:39):
And it was such a journey. It's still a journey. i'm still learning i'm
only 21 and i've just come so far
so that's basically where it kicked off
when i was like i'm gonna do i'm gonna sculpt florals and
stories as much as i can because i love the sculpting but i'm gonna paint and
resin like i've done with these ones yeah yeah so just painted uncle ash uncle
(10:01):
ashley showed me this cross hatching technique and it's so so cool i love it
so it's like cross hatching yes also like lines that are going across each other
it's going going that way.
And this was a technique that he taught me and it's just about the act of doing it.
Yeah. That was so powerful to me. Just the act of doing something creative and
the lines, there's lots of, what are they, parallel or, yeah, lots of parallel lines.
(10:25):
And that's so spiritual for him to teach me how to do that. Even though it's like just lines.
Yeah. It has a whole different meaning for, you know, my family. I love that. I love that.
Well, I really like what you were saying as well around how when When you went
to Japan and you saw the beauty there and you were like, how can I have that in my life?
And that's like when that started your journey, I guess, embracing and exploring
(10:46):
your sort of heritage and culture.
And now that beauty that you saw in some other place from the creativity there,
you've now have in your life, but you're also sharing with other people as well. I think that's amazing.
Yeah, it's so good. I love being able to share what I can see,
you know, what I can experience and...
It's so rewarding. I love it because, yeah, I like to sculpt and paint what
(11:11):
I see or experience in my life.
And in Aboriginal culture, you're not allowed to tell stories that aren't yours.
So, I didn't grow up with a lot of stories. I didn't grow up with my elders
around because my mum basically raised me.
My mum's side of the family was from Tata Chocolate. So, shout out to, is it Tara?
To Melanice, who's my auntie. Your mum though? My mum's Tara.
(11:33):
Tara. Yeah, I remember the name. Tara. Shout out to Tara, first of all.
Yeah, shout out Starra. She works at the art gallery, actually.
She just started, yeah. Okay, nice. And she's a graphic designer.
She helped me a lot developing my brand as well.
So, I was going to ask at what point did you delve deep into recognizing and
exploring a First Nations heritage and culture, but you've already answered that, which is amazing.
Yeah, it's good. When did you transition from creating art to selling it and building the business?
(11:59):
Like, how did it turn from a passion project to a business that is actually
making money and you're like, oh, I can actually, I don't need to work.
I can actually work, yeah, live off the business. It's a funny story because
after my gap year, I came back to Bundaberg and I was like, okay,
I got to do something with my life.
And my mum and my whole family were like, go to uni. Like, it'd be a great experience for you.
(12:23):
And I was like, oh, I don't know anything I really want to study. My brother was in uni.
So, right, just pay 40 grand and figure it out later. Don't even get me started
on that. That is ridiculous. Ridiculous.
Yeah. I just can't believe it. I can't believe that's the next cog in the system.
You finish school, you go to uni, you get some sort of job that you'll probably
hate in 10 years, you know.
You don't even know what you want to do when you get out of school.
(12:44):
Or like you were saying, in your situation, you're still figuring out your own
identity and who you are and trying to tap into that.
You're trying to figure out the world, like your world view.
And I tell you what, I turned, I think I, when was 2020?
Years ago. Yeah, years ago, yeah.
I turned 19 in 2020 and I moved to Sunshine Coast to do uni.
(13:06):
Yeah. So I studied OT for two years.
I studied occupational. I did not know that. Yeah. Okay. Oh my gosh.
I studied occupational therapy for two years and I did love studying it.
But I always wanted to do like an art therapy degree or something and be able
to relate to kids and, you know, heal through art because that's really what healed me.
(13:27):
But then I suffered at Sunshine Coast because I got there in 2020 hit and my
worldview was just so skewed because I thought, wow, the world's going to end for real.
And I just wasn't coping with myself, my own identity, and then it felt the
world was going to collapse. And then the C word happened.
Yeah. So, we're not going to say that word, but it happened. It dropped.
(13:49):
The penny dropped. and that was really challenging for me because I did dive
down into the rabbit hole because I'm trying to figure out my world view and
I didn't really have the most open support of open conversation.
It was just very strict when I talked to any of my people around me about it
and it wasn't really an open conversation where I'm very open of a person and
(14:13):
I'm very open to many different things and that was really challenging.
I went to Sunny Coast and I had had no friends. I just got, I just started uni.
No support system. Yeah. I had no support system. We just, my partner and I
moved there and, you know, he was struggling to find a job and we were just not doing well.
And so I was like, okay, I gotta make some money somehow.
And so I was like, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to try and sell these earrings. Hardcore.
(14:37):
Yeah. That's when I really started to go, okay, I'm going to do this.
I'm going to make money because previously just before that I got shared like
half, like six months ago before I moved to the sunny coast,
I got shared by Buy From The Bush.
Do you know that place? It's got about a quarter of a million followers online
now. What's it called again?
Buy From The Bush. They just share your page and say nice things about it and
(15:02):
it reaches a lot of people. When it first started, it was wild.
That day, because I already had an online store, but I was just slowly going
at it because I was just a side.
Yeah, growing. Yeah. And I was building my audience, trying to figure out myself,
my life, trying to get my products right because at the start, products were no good.
It they would break or I'd cook them thin enough like too thin
or just what I wasn't you know
(15:24):
what my head wasn't it's like with any new skill as well you've got to yeah
develop it yeah I'm sure there's a few people I know locally that have like
the OG water woman earrings and they're just like thin as thin the glue is coming
off they're five years old I'm like and they've still got them I don't wear
these I just hang them because they're pretty and when you're famous in 10 years
then And then I'll sell them.
I'm like, oh, I love that.
(15:46):
But I got shared by From the Bush and I gained heaps.
I don't gain heaps, but at the time I was like, wow, I've got like 1,500 extra
followers and that made a massive difference on my sales because people,
once I get people's attention, they usually stay with me and they're interested
because they like to see the journey.
It's quite unique, this sort of journey, basically what I've just said to you. And it's a good story.
(16:09):
It's a good story. And visually appealing art as well. Yeah,
it's visually appealing and then they can wear it.
And I think they like to show that off and then they can talk about it.
And it's quite a good talking point because I feel like my little story has
a lot of different talking points, you know, mental health.
Yeah. And I've spoken a lot about dealing with some whack sort of racism within
(16:29):
school and community and, yeah, just like some, yeah, backwards sort of stuff.
Has that more so been since you've been stepping out and embracing your First
Nations heritage? Yeah, yeah. Yes.
It's just tricky because I don't look Aboriginal and I have a lot of different heritage.
(16:50):
My family is, my dad's side is Sri Lankan.
Yeah, my dad's side is Sri Lankan and Aboriginal and a little bit of Torres
Strait Islander in there, which I'm just learning about that because we don't have records.
They don't keep records. I've done all the ancestry and stuff like that,
but it's just like a brick wall. It's ridiculous.
(17:11):
I don't know if that happens often, but with my mum's side, it goes like all
the way back. Way back to this island.
The 16th cousin from the Queen, yeah. Yeah, but everyone's, someone's descendant
from a queen, you know, there's, I reckon there's a lot of people,
you know, descendants from royalty.
There's a whole conversation we could have there. Anyway, I don't even get started,
(17:33):
oh my gosh, this is controversial. Start on the monarchy. Oh my goodness.
But yeah, people really related to that story, that story.
But yeah, I definitely have dealt with a lot of different sort
of racism because I'm fair skinned within the
aboriginal community there's just instant ostracized
you know asian being like instantly
(17:55):
ostracized just for being like light-skinned yeah
let alone who's your mob when that question
comes about my heritage always gets thrown up in the air my father's an apo
so they're big fishermen and crabbers all along east coast and up gladstone
all the way down really really down to Sunshine Coast because my family is from
(18:18):
Sunshine Coast, so Gubby or Cavi,
but we just call it Gubby Gubby because that's what they prefer.
But it's like really a massive Aboriginal land in Bundy.
And from Bundy to Gladstone, we've got four tribes, four or five tribes,
and then along inland a bit. But Sunny Coast is like this massive one.
And then there's, I think it's Budgelung, which is Gold Coast.
(18:39):
Yeah, my family comes all the way up from there. But the problem is just that
we've got Sri Lankan blood in us.
And so I've been called mudblood like a freaking Harry Potter. I was going to say.
I'm like, dude, are you seriously out here? I went to Shalom. Yeah.
And I used to do acknowledgement of country because, okay, I could talk about this for ages, but.
(19:00):
So, I went to a private school in Bundy. Is it private?
Yeah. It's a private Catholic. Shalom, yeah, Catholic private school. It's a Catholic school.
And I think when I was there, I graduated in 2018 and there was something rather
of less than 15 kids of Indigenous descent,
which sort of makes sense because socioeconomically Indigenous people can't
really afford to send their kids to private schools.
(19:23):
But there, alas, there were kids there. But I was like by far the fairest of them all.
But I would be the only one, there was a few others, but in my grade I would
be the only one that would do
an acknowledgement of country just because I had the confidence to do it.
Yeah. And I loved the teacher, the Indigenous teacher there.
But I would get bullied so bad for doing that from white kids, just Aussie kids.
(19:50):
It's so old Australian racism. They would call me like, oh, your mum's no white.
What are you doing identifying like that? Who are you? So I'd get thrown all
these terrible names and you're like, am I? And you start questioning yourself.
And my dad's side of the family wasn't really around in a healthy way.
Yeah. So it was like, what?
Who am I? Sort of thing. So it really does, it feels terrible.
(20:15):
I go to Kepnock, I go to the schools and just talk to the kids,
whether that be about like entrepreneurial product development or,
yeah, I did this thing Lighting the Spark and it was just the First Nations kids.
Kids and we just had a chat about what i actually do
and i was like you don't have to go to uni and all this stuff
and teachers were like hey every time yeah
(20:37):
they'll invite they'll be like we want to talk about entrepreneurship not all
the teachers but sometimes um and then they're and then as soon as you start
talking about entrepreneurship they're like hey we need to keep those scores
up what is it it's not op anymore it's it's uh yeah i think we're at a From my perspective,
we're at a turning point where it's like we, most of us like teachers,
(20:58):
schools, people know that education is important.
Education is great. Teachers are great, hopefully. Yeah.
This current schooling system is broken. It's broken, hey. And we need to do
something different and change the way we do things. Yeah. Yeah. So interesting.
Since 2020, I've just been focusing on what's in front of me and what I can trust for my own eyes.
(21:21):
Focusing on my life, my family, and also my community, like really important.
Yeah, I was just talking to you the other day that I just did not feel a sense
of community in my hometown here at all. Has that changed?
Yeah, I think it has changed. I think that maybe because of the mindset that I have now.
Because every time I see somebody that I like, I'll just talk to them.
(21:44):
And like yesterday, today actually, I met this really cool lady.
She had dreads. She has gray hair.
And one of those cool older ladies that just goes, you know what,
stuff it. I'm going to go fully gray.
And she got dreads and the most beautiful. And I just saw her instantly.
I'm like, hey, you know what? You would love to come down to the pottery studio
and do some pottery. I know you would because I was chatting to her for a while.
(22:05):
I better kill her. And then she's like, oh, that would be so good. I'm feeling terrible.
I'm like, oh, come down, you know, I'm going to be down there today.
And she came on down and I was like, oh, another woman building the community.
So, maybe that's just me. That's my mindset. That's like building community.
I love that. I'm just thinking here, obviously when you're younger,
you usually don't have the know-how or the energy or the wisdom,
(22:28):
especially if you're struggling to do that yourself, to build your own community.
So you need other people but then as you mature and grow
you start to have a bit more responsibility as well
to reach out to people as well and to build community and
i think that's amazing because not every everybody does that yeah yeah you
know like you could see it if you're really intuitive you
could see that she was struggling and you have to it's everyone's responsibility
(22:50):
to take care of each other even though this town is grown by 12 000 or something
ridiculous hello victorians out there yeah but yeah like we welcome them so
slightly changing yes the direction.
I have a question. If you could share some wisdom with your 18-year-old self.
Oh, my gosh. What would you say?
(23:12):
Oh, my goodness. Just you need to get out of your situation and that will really
help you find out who you actually want to be and who you're capable of being
because I just was so dark at that time.
But as soon as I got out of that situation and that mindset,
really, not so much situation but mindset you got
(23:34):
to keep your spirits really high because there's always something good
and there's always tomorrow if you ever have a really bad day just go to bed
because there's always tomorrow just knock it out just say good night and just
go to bed because you really there's been time like i didn't think that i would
make it to 21 at this age like i was just so depressed depressed, so sad.
(23:57):
And now I'm just like, how good on you for just going to bed.
Because there's always a new day to try and feel better. And also making someone
else's day will make your day.
Yeah. Because life is really hard and it's meant to be.
Do you ever have those moments where you like think back to a version of your
(24:17):
younger self and you're like, she would be so proud of what I've done or where
we are right now. She'd be so shocked.
She'd be shocked to see me alive, let alone thriving.
Like, it's not like I don't struggle. Yeah, definitely. It's just that I'm here
still and, you know, we're out here.
We're out here making bank. We're out here doing what we love. Yeah.
(24:39):
And you're not, like, obviously, we still all have struggles and we will have struggles.
But you're not, I guess, would you say you're not in a deep pit where you don't know where the light is?
Yeah. Or you're not sure where. It's so easy to get into a dark,
deep pit of just despair.
I just have to laugh because like I can't imagine getting myself into a pit like that again.
(25:00):
And you just need to focus on your environment and your mindset and doing something,
even if it's one thing that makes you love life, whether that be taking a dog
for a walk or something like that.
So, with that, if there's someone listening who they might be in a similar position
to to where you felt you were years ago.
One of the big changes for you was when you went to Japan, I think you were
(25:22):
saying, and started thinking more about your identity and heritage,
but then you experienced moving to Sunshine Coast and the challenges there.
What do you think were like one or two of the key things that helped you change
your situation or the environment that you were in?
I actually, it's a really funny story, but it's pretty crazy.
I actually have Tourette's, But I'm very good at hiding it very much.
(25:45):
Thank you to a special medicine that is very natural. It's helped me so much.
I, yeah, I had a full nervous breakdown when I was 19, when I came back from
Sunny Coast, my whole body shut down and I was unable to move for six months.
I couldn't get out of bed.
And I like had all these issues. Everyone, like my family, it was just not very
(26:08):
supportive. They thought I was faking this illness.
And I really struggled with that
because I felt like I was faking my whole life because of my identity.
And I was really struggling to deal with life. life
and then in 2020 it was all it all just happened at
the same time and my body just said no stuff you i'm
shutting down and i like full developed my
(26:28):
Tourette's because i just had ticks all my life like a tick disorder but
then i just couldn't function for the better half of a year so
that's what stopped me wow that's what stopped me and
then i had a full reset and then i started setting really
hard boundaries yeah with the people in my life
and having more respect for myself
of what you actually do deserve like that's what
(26:49):
really helped me because my environment was no good and then
my mindset was no good because of it but i had a full i
had to my ego had to die because i couldn't i
tell you this i could not walk into coals without screaming i have the c word
i have corona but i could not that was the worst tick i ever had and i actually
(27:10):
had to get security there to come take me out wow not take me out like dead
like knock me out but they had had to take me out and they thought I was like
infected, which was awful.
But I couldn't go to the shops, yeah, so. It's pretty hectic.
Pretty good reset though. So, yeah, what was, do you mind, is that something
you can share? What was a reset? What triggered a reset?
Well, I just kept putting myself in a really bad position, like abusing different
(27:32):
sort of substances, whether it be alcohol, whatever.
And I was in a house, I put myself in a position where I was trying,
like I was in a house I rented and then I would have people come stay with me.
And I think I purposefully put myself in that position to hit some sort of low
because I was feeling so bad in my mindset that my physical changed.
(27:52):
And you just do. If you've ever been in that sort of dark situation,
you do things that make you feel terrible or hurt yourself in a way that really damages your brain.
And I think that's what I might have done was that I actually just damaged my
brain to a point where I wasn't even like a human anymore.
I wasn't myself. self your nervous system was like
(28:13):
my nervous system i've been in fight
or flight for years just survival mode even though
my life didn't feel i felt like my issues
weren't that big but looking back they were massive yeah
you just don't you're just in survival mode and you don't
think about that sort of stuff you're just in it to survive and
only recently when i had that nervous breakdown all my
(28:35):
relationships broke down because i wasn't putting this
mask on anymore more because every time I would be in
front of my mum I would be putting this mask on to be
what I wanted for her or whether that be for my dad
or whether that be for my what'll try at the time I was actually really suffering
and then you know for every one of my life I was putting all these masks on
because I didn't actually know who I was yeah and then I had a full nervous
(28:58):
breakdown because I had to get rid of all the masks because I just broke I broke
my brain could not fit into any little.
Any bubble so then i had to literally start from the bottom up
again and that was build your way back up probably
the hardest thing i ever did yeah wow i had to
learn how to walk again and that was just awful
i would never wish that and then from there i just have
(29:20):
Tourette's now it's all right i'm quite good at suppressing it
but my cheeks are going really red because when you talk about
it it comes up okay because i can really suppress
it thinking about it is that yeah we're talking about it so.
Yeah I'm just like oh yeah well thank.
You for sharing that's okay um since you started
I guess building your way building this new life figuring out
(29:41):
who you are and I guess climbing out of that pit have
you had any sort of pivotal support or mentors
or I guess people that have helped guide you or help you along
the way yeah so my relationship with
my mum's family is very good when
it comes to business because they're so supportive in that
business sense because they're all entrepreneurs themselves like my mom's
(30:03):
she's done a graphic designing business for 30 25 years and
then chocolate the chocolate shop my auntie and her father
had the first chocolate shop jake's candy so there's my
grandma has like a sewing business yeah so everyone in my family
it's like a rite of passage to start a business so i really did have
a lot of support going into it but i felt a bit pressured
to do it yeah which is not usually a normal thing
(30:25):
i don't don't think a lot of people would experience that like to feel pressure to
succeed or to start a new business like
is that i feel like it might be different for different people if
you've got like you're saying you've had family members who have owned businesses
before similar to if you've got a family that's always
been in medicine you've got that pressure there to live up
to some sort of unspoken expectation if that
(30:46):
makes sense like the expectation to go to uni or something it's an
unspoken sort of thing if everyone's gone to uni in your family
then it just yeah makes sense you'd feel that pressure
too yeah yeah but they were really good and supportive but
you know that was just another mask that i was trying to fit into that.
I just could not at the time but my mom really helped me with my brand development.
(31:06):
And the colors the logos all the little bits and bobs that went into making
earrings so like the cards the packaging all the goodies all the big goodies
so that was really important because i really did develop a sense of of brand
awareness, which was really good.
And then my family on my dad's side does like Aboriginal art.
So I've had good support recently from my uncles, who is as dark as the night sky.
(31:32):
He's lovely. Uncle Ash, and he sells his pottery at the studio,
and he paints there all the time.
But he's getting quite old. So, he's teaching me all that he knows at the moment.
And that's like a big support for me because now that I'm able to learn it,
I'm able to go and paint it. Yeah. So, that's really cool.
That's really sweet. Yeah. So, there's lots of support out there from my family.
And has that been, I guess, therapeutic in a way on a personal level?
(31:56):
Yeah. Like creating and going through that process?
Yeah. And just relationship building. Yeah. Because I just have a terrible just
I'm really bad at cutting people off.
Sometimes I just really benefit from sitting with people and trying to build
a relationship with them and doing it through art really helps anything.
That's why I wanted to do art therapy because just talking, it's the most therapeutic thing.
(32:20):
Like we get a lot of people coming through the pottery studio groups of just women.
They come together and they just do something with their hands while they're
talking about their week and that's like their favourite thing ever.
Yeah, community, it's therapeutic. Yeah, that's really beautiful.
But yeah, as for mentors, I haven't, that's about it really.
I haven't really had too many mentors in the past.
(32:40):
I think like you're saying, you've got that, you're building that community
of different family members and other people and each of them has something
different that they input into your life and that you input into theirs.
Yeah. I think sometimes mentors and coaches are great and for different,
you know, skills and stuff that,
Sometimes we can go looking for that one mentor and we can be one mentor to turn our life around.
(33:01):
But if we have that community, you've got all these people in your life,
have all got different strengths and all these different things that they can
input and share. I think that's beautiful.
I think everything that you need to know is actually really inside yourself.
But by talking to other people, you are able to find that because you know what I mean?
I do think that Kim, the lady who owns the pottery studio, my cousin.
(33:22):
She's been a really big mentor for me.
Her mom just passed away a year ago and then she is a very spiritual person
and the spiritual lady told her that I was going to come into her life and I did magically.
It was like this really crazy experience. Anyway, it was this weird thing but
we really connected and she's like me but older and more experienced and very
(33:42):
experienced in business.
They had so many fish and chip shops up Gold Coast and down.
Do you remember the Boss Sushi here?
Do you remember Boss Sushi? It was a sushi place in Bagara where the bakery
was. Yes. Yeah, that was theirs. That was a while ago.
Yeah, and they did all the skills and stuff like that, but they had a really
big business and they've been really good at helping me with this studio at the moment.
(34:03):
So, really good. That's like my main mentor. I'd probably say like the one person. Yeah, yeah.
So, I have a question and it's one that I ask everyone that comes on. Okay.
And it's not that deep. Okay, I'm pretty sure we got a bit deep already.
It's how do you define creativity?
Oh, okay. Okay, I think the creative process, any creative process in art is all about layers.
(34:30):
I think it's all layers. Like when I do my slabs, I put the base layer and then I'll put the base layer.
I put the branches down. I put the leaves and the flowers and then I detail them all.
And creativity is like that. It really reflects your life and it's all about
you. How do you explain that? Yeah.
So creativity, did you say that? Yeah, creativity, just your own words, yeah.
(34:54):
Yeah, it's all about layers, everything that, not even just like literally but
spiritually, what am I going to do today?
What am I going to do that makes me feel good? That's a layer.
What am I going to do that people are going to like, people are going to resonate
with? There's all these different layers that go into creativity.
How am I going to do it? Am I going to be able to get up and actually do this?
Because making every day is a challenge in itself and that kills creativity
(35:17):
sometimes, Sometimes, but others thrive on it.
It's like some people love when they've got a creative hobby that just gives
them energy. But as soon as it turns into a job that they're going to do.
Oh my gosh. Yeah. Production.
Yes. It's a job for real. One day when I am rich, no, but one day when I got
my studio and I'm able to hire somebody, I'd like to get someone do work experience and pay them.
(35:41):
Yeah. But I would really like to work with ghouls or something. thing.
I just don't know how to go about it yet, but to do art assistant in the workshop or- Okay.
You know what I mean? Do a week with me. Like work experience in an art workshop.
Yeah. Because there's so much that goes involved and that's involved and goes
on and they can help me with my production and- Yeah.
Yeah. But also a really cool idea is I want to work with the schools and,
(36:03):
you know, like in grade 12, did you ever do art in grade 12?
I was homeschooled and I dropped out after grade 11. I did art in grade 11.
Yeah. Cool. They do like term art projects where you have to plan it all out.
Each student has to do the brainstorming process and then you just have to document every process.
But I thought because there's not many opportunities here in Bundaberg to do
it but I want to have a space in my studio where kids can do a mural for their end of grade 12,
(36:27):
you know, because then they can have that on their resume and I can be their
reference and give them that opportunity because I really want to do a public art.
I really want to do that whale wall. I said this in my last interview.
Watch me come out here next year
with this whale wall done. That would be amazing. It's not, yeah. man.
We'll have to check back when you're on the podcast next. Yes.
If I've done the right, we'll...
(36:50):
We'll get a photo of it. Lily, as we come to a close, I have a final question.
And I'm flipping the script here.
Is there a question you wish I would have asked?
And how would you answer it?
Yes. So, I wish that you'd asked, are you only doing just earrings?
Because there was a while there where I was like getting very sick of making earrings.
(37:13):
Because I've probably made probably about 5,000 to 10,000.
5,000 to 10,000? Probably about 5,000. Yeah, I reckon I've made 1,000 pairs of earrings this year.
Wow. Not even, yeah. With your own hands? Yeah, yeah, yeah. My hands,
they suffer for it. They suffer for it greatly.
I've got tendonitis and I do these stretches because these are like tools.
(37:34):
Yeah, definitely. These are tools, man.
Anyway, just look at my ratchet hands. They're maker's hands. So, I ain't got no nails.
I ain't got no fancy press-ons or anything. thing but yeah i would
like to i would like to keep making earrings because
i love it it's my bread and butter everyone loves it they can
wear it on their ears they can be high fashion but i
would definitely like to take them into like indigenous fashion week or something
(37:55):
on runway models and stuff as they walk down eventually but i also have been
like developing this new sort of art form that i haven't seen anywhere so okay
i actually just i'm actually like no no no I don't think people could do it.
I honestly don't think people could sculpt the way that I do because it's so detailed.
This artwork took me like 60 hours but i
(38:17):
won an award in winton in queensland so okay
i think is it a queensland no no no it's a
national prize but it's not like a big national art
prize but i won the emerging section it's still
a prize so i am technically a national an award
it was really
good it was the emerging section though so what
(38:38):
it is just like a slab of polymer mcclay and then
i sculpted a full story on it like a
full indigenous story on it sculpted oh
my gosh yeah and i won and i was so stoked but
i want to like i've just i've just
put i'm actually in a private exhibition at the moment
at the end of this month i've got a painting going in there
(38:58):
because i do painting as well i still submit and try
all the other mediums but i'm better at sculpting and
plus not a lot of people do it so yeah it's a lot harder so earrings and
then this new sculpting slab artworks i
call it so i frame them in like a
box shadow box frame and put some nice backing
on it whether that be like a nice canvas or something and then
(39:19):
either glass or no glass but yeah it's like
a whole new little art medium that they're just so beautiful
imagine yeah imagine like earrings but just fully a slab of it and a full story
and like a little didactic and everything but yeah next year when i get my studio
fully set up i'm going to i'm going to To fully start my adventure with like
(39:40):
fine art and little sculptures.
Because they look like little cave paintings, this little sculpture.
I just want people to know that. So, it's not just earrings.
Yeah, it's not just earrings. I don't want to be just reduced.
Like a jewellery maker, yeah. Even though the earrings are great. I know, they're great.
Thank you for coming on the podcast today. Thank you for sharing your story
and some of the raw moments.
And yeah, some of the honest moments of your journey.
(40:03):
Yeah, very honest. Yes. Yes, I love sharing my story because I think people relate to it in some way.
Yeah. There's a lot going on there. So, yeah.
And I'm sure obviously there's so much more as well behind all of everything
you've shared. There's a lot.
Pretty happy with where I'm at and where I'm going. And, yeah,
I'm really happy to be here. Thank you so much.
(40:23):
If people want to check out more of what you're doing, where can they go?
My Instagram tag handle is just Whattlewoman.
Yeah, Whattlewoman. Whattlewoman. Not What's a Woman. And just the same thing on Facebook as well.
Amazing. So, Whattlewoman on Facebook, not TikTok. No, no TikTok,
sorry. Not TikTok. Sorry, bar.
(40:45):
Facebook and your website. Yeah. Yeah. Or they could just Google Wattle Woman
and I'm sure it will come up. Yeah.
Something will pop up. Some women jumping with Wattle or something in the images.
For everyone listening, thank you so much for tuning in to the For the Creatives podcast.
There are so many podcasts out there and there is so much stuff competing for
our time. So, if you've stayed till the end, I appreciate you.
(41:07):
And if you found this episode interesting, share it with a friend,
leave a review, go check out Lily's stuff, and I'll see you on the next episode.
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