In the Season 2 opener of For The Creatives Podcast, Elisha Taderera chats with Andy Knight from Knight's Creative. With nearly 25 years in the industry, Andy shares his unique insights and experiences from his journey as a professional photographer and videographer.
In this episode, Andy discusses the challenges of turning a passion into a profession, the importance of business acumen for creatives, and how the digital age has transformed the industry. From his early days navigating the transition from film to digital, to the impact of AI on creative media, Andy offers valuable advice for aspiring creatives.
We also delve into the significance of building a supportive network, the role of mentorship, and the evolving landscape of photography and videography. Whether you're just starting out or looking to refine your craft, Andy's stories and tips are sure to inspire and guide you on your creative path.
Join us for an insightful conversation that explores the art of storytelling through visual media and the ever-changing dynamics of the creative industry.
Follow Andy Knight: Instagram: @knightscreative.bundaberg
Follow Elisha Taderera: Instagram: @elishataderera
Follow For The Creatives Podcast: Instagram: @forthecreativespodcast
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Music.
(00:06):
As I started doing paid work, I was like, I don't like this.
If you don't put yourself out there, you don't gain your own clients.
How much do you protect your work?
That's not taught at school. That's not taught in uni. I feel like photography
has been devalued in a sense, but you still need that creative art.
You still need that skill. You still need to be able to tell a story properly.
(00:27):
What has been one of the bigger challenges in the journey in your creative media
career? I think as a creative, the art of business is probably the most challenging.
Yeah. Where's that job coming from?
They might be like, you should do this job for us, you get exposure,
you get experience and try to get them to do it for free. Yeah.
(00:47):
What are your thoughts on that?
Welcome Andy to the For The Creatives podcast. Thank you for having me.
Before we get started, can you introduce yourself and just tell me a bit about who you are?
Yes. This is the eternal question, Elijah. Who am I? I am Andy Knight. I run Nights Creative.
I've been a professional for closing in on just under 25 years now. That gives away my age.
(01:10):
Started probably about 23, late starter.
But yeah, the passion's just been there from the start. Professional photographer, that's been my key.
We've moved into video and also all aspects of creativity.
What initially led you to step into that media world? I was enrolled in digital
technology at university.
And that gave me the sort of tech space and that mind.
(01:33):
But we're talking about early 2000s. Yeah, okay. So this is pre-iPhone, pre-iPod.
And I took a break. It was a bit overwhelming in terms of computer science and engineering and maths.
So I took a break to the States and I discovered big billboards and they were so highly produced.
And I asked a mate when I was over there, who does that? They're like, a photographer.
(01:56):
I'm like, is that a thing? and I came, I was brought up in a low socioeconomic
neighborhood with a career advisor.
It was never a creative base.
Yeah. It was, what do you want to be? Do you want to be a pharmacist or a doctor or a computer tech?
And on that note, the creativity just realizing that it could be a profession
and a living just blew up and the next thing you know, I enrolled into a college
(02:20):
in Melbourne and yeah, I went from there.
With Knights Creative, would you say it's a studio that's focused on creative
media and how would you describe it?
Yeah, it's one of those catch-all businesses in the creative industry,
but primarily we're a production house.
We create via the mediums of photography and video, so in that visual space.
(02:42):
But it's also evolved into a content creation agency and that just means more
strategy around the photography of video. So it's purpose-built.
In your own journey, can you give a bit more of a picture When you enrolled
into the university in Melbourne, what did that look like?
Oh, the memories, Lesha. So we're talking about a 23 year old who's just come
(03:03):
back from the States, living his best life. Oh, sorry, 21 years old.
And the college, you needed to be, you needed to have a portfolio.
You needed to actually do well in media through high school.
Oh wow. Obviously having no, you know, background in that at all.
So I submitted a little photography folio, which was horrible looking back at it.
And I remember reading somewhere, you're not a professional photographer if you use flash.
(03:28):
And so when you use flash, obviously you light up things. It works out.
Here I am with my camera taking photos.
And we're talking film, not digital. Film costing 20 bucks a hit, processing it.
The roll of film costs another 20 bucks. So 40 bucks out, all my shots were black.
And I was like, okay, here we go. So I put myself through school.
(03:51):
Cool. The school taught me some technical skills. It was very film based.
So dodging, burning dark room as such.
It was the cusp of Canon coming out with digital and this camera came out as
full frame sensor and it was $16,000 and I was luckily enough back then housing
prices were so cheap. So I'd borrow it against the house a little bit and bought it.
(04:12):
And so I was very lucky in that way and it just changed the game.
Yeah, and that's how I got my whole teeth cut into the digital game,
but with film backgrounds.
I was very careful on my takes, even with digital. So I'd be very calculated
on when I would press that button.
Yeah, because nowadays with smartphones, you'd press the button a hundred times.
You don't have to have that same intention.
(04:36):
That's so true. And actually on that note, with that precision button pushing,
you could say, there's less fluking. so you've got a purpose for when you take
that photo yeah you can't just take a hundred pick the best one and be like
that's correct yeah yeah yeah.
So when did you transition into more of a career with photography or paid work?
(04:58):
When did you start doing paid work? Yeah. The good thing about college was they
instigated a business plan straight away.
Oh, wow. In 2000? Yeah, about 2002.
That's great. One of the subjects was business and business studies.
Yeah. And so they got you to register your ABN and they were like,
you know, your skill level will be already above the next person.
(05:19):
And so watch people wanting to hire you.
Maybe it's friends and family to start with, which is what happened.
So weddings were the first thing,
which was terrifying because the digital camera hadn't come in just yet.
So I'm charging $500 for an entire wedding, which you just wouldn't hear of right now.
But it was all shot on film as well. So I actually lost money.
(05:42):
I took so many photos and it cost me money to process it and print them.
And I actually lost money. It cost me a few hundred bucks extra than I was paid.
And so I gave him a free wedding gift. It was family and friends,
so be it. But I nailed it. The shoot was beautiful.
And I was stuck with one lens, a black and white only as well film.
(06:03):
And it was beautiful, actually. Yeah. Yeah, very rewarding.
It's a first pay job. Love that, early beginnings. And I guess you also gained
experience doing those wedding shoots.
Something I want to bring up a bit later is hearing your thoughts on when you
think it's okay to work for experience.
But I guess just hearing that and hearing the beginnings with film and before
we went into digital cameras, how have you seen the industry change?
(06:28):
It's a really good question because now that I'm a couple of decades in,
I can actually give a little bit of insight into what I've seen.
It's the advent of the digital space, the color code, the vibrancy that you can bring.
We used to hide a lot of mistakes in the darkroom by darkening certain sections
of the photo with, you know, the chemical process.
(06:50):
Now you can't hide as much because of the clarity and the megapixel count.
However, the fundamentals are still there. Yeah.
So if you don't come in with your composition and your general eye for photography
or what looks nice and natural, but also in terms of if you're working with
people, how does that translate? What's your communication?
(07:11):
Yeah. Right. And the comfort level, how do you make people feel good about themselves
in that instant of, say, it's a wedding and the couple are so nervous,
but you're paid as a professional to make these photos look good.
So you're under pressure.
All of a sudden, you learn rapport building. You learn romance on the fly.
(07:31):
Whisper those sweet nothings. And it turns into a laugh and a bit of fun.
And knowing that, and then how to manage crowd control.
You can have a few hundred people for that group photo.
And if you don't get it your bride
will be on the phone to you in three months saying where's the
shot yeah so you're sort of forced into it and then that i think if you're a
(07:52):
creative especially a photographer videographer cutting your teeth on a wedding
is a great way to enter the industry but go in prepared yeah yes the wedding
i guess is one of those that it's like you can't redo you You cannot do a do-over.
It's high stress, but if you've got a good mentor and you go tag along with
(08:12):
them and watch how the processes are, it's definitely worth it.
So there's a saying, a picture is worth a thousand words.
And then someone else said, if a picture is worth a thousand words,
a video is worth a million.
Yeah. What has your sort of journey been like in the world of videography?
Have you sort of done a bit of that yourself? That's a super question because
(08:33):
coming from a photography background, I know the rules of composition and what
feels good to the eye when you frame something. But nowadays...
I feel, oh, I wish that photo was moving. I wish there was that,
you know, could I see just a little bit around the corner or,
you know, and if we panned across.
(08:53):
And so my passion for video stems from wanting a little bit more of the shot of that singular photo.
There's still, you know, a lot of clients that just want photos,
but we try to package it with a video to accompany, to just really showcase
the true story of what, whether it's behind their product or their service.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so they can work hand in hand.
(09:14):
And when we talk about photography or videography or any media,
we're really talking about storytelling and telling a story,
telling a narrative, which is one of the things I love about photography.
Like I think I remember myself when I was younger, I started playing around on my dad's Nokia.
It was one of the old brick ones, but I had a camera. The camera was,
I don't even remember the specs. It would have been horrible.
(09:36):
But you're able to like capture moments still in time that told a story,
which I just thought was amazing.
And I know a lot of people these days, sometimes older people,
but some younger people as well, because we have our smartphones and anyone
can take a photo, they sort of feel like photography has been devalued in a
sense, but you still need that creative eye.
(09:57):
You still need that skill. You still need to be able to tell a story properly
and to sort of know what shot you're taking.
Like just pressing record or pressing, you know, the shutter doesn't actually
create an amazing photo.
What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, I like your insight into that.
And it's one of those Uncle Bob photographers over your shoulder at, say, the wedding.
(10:17):
It's the mum at the photo shoot, the fashion photo shoot. And she's like,
look how good my photo is. And you're like, yeah, it's great.
And sometimes you're like, oh, damn, that's really good. But I think with the
advent of smartphones...
I love that you can be super creative on the fly.
Yeah. Being able to capture your family, your pets, your loved ones,
(10:38):
creating your own memories in that.
You can go as far as making it a professional photo.
However, in the long run, when it's a full event that you need to capture,
the iPhone doesn't have the, you know, the endurance.
It doesn't have, or you might cop a phone call in the middle of it.
But it doesn't have the batch editing that you need to do. Once you've got a
(11:01):
thousand photos, what happens?
And you've got these external procedures, efficiencies, workflows.
Then you've got obviously the photographer themselves who've got the experience
for people skills and handling the equipment, having backups as well.
So if something fails, your iPhone's crashed, all the photos were on it and
that was say you're waiting for a birthday party, things like that.
(11:23):
So there's always room for a professional. yeah but
it's not so much that it's because of the
capture of the device it's about the external factors
that come with it yeah this sounds like there's a
time and place 100 what has been a project
that you've really enjoyed working on over over the years when
i first started uni for
(11:44):
photography my passion was the
fashion and i love how that rhymes but it's so
corny fashion for fashion right but I
was at uni and I went to Melbourne Fashion
Week and I was attending there and I said to
my friend that was there at the time I looked back at all the photographers I
said that's going to be me next year and they're
(12:05):
like yep you got this and finish uni
and I said all right guys time to get me into Fashion Week
they're like we don't know anyone in fashion we can get you
into weddings we can get you in portrait photography I'm like
no no know catwalks i saw the photographers they're like we don't
we don't know anyone i just happened to have that digital technology
background so i was able to build myself a
little website really badly but it had photos
(12:28):
on there and so built in flash uh html coding yeah raw seven steps hl coding
i learned it while i was ill over a week and it was enough to put some photos
online and when i applied for the accreditation i got accepted because i was
one of the rare people that had a website. And there I was the next year.
I had called it upon the universe that I was there. My photos were horrible.
(12:52):
However, by the third or fourth show, I happened to be positioned behind the
Vogue and the Herald Sun photographers.
And thank goodness they were shorter than me. And they let me shoot over their shoulder between them.
And it just so happened the models were instructed to look at them.
So instead of looking at two people, they looked down the middle.
Guess where my lens was? That's perfect. And so I was in prime position.
(13:17):
The memories, the experience, the knowledge I learned within five minutes was, to this day, I hold it.
Yeah, the step sequences that the models are taking, they're like,
don't wait till they're all the way at the back, your flash won't reach.
All those little things. Yeah. And they shared.
And they were transparent.
(13:38):
And they were not gatekeeping at all. and that really changed my whole outlook
from coming through uni where it was like secrets and portrait lighting secrets
and you won't know that until you're a bigger photographer.
All of a sudden, these mainstream guys who were all earning the same living
all of a sudden, sharing.
I'm like, wow, this is different. This is a new world. This is the real world.
(14:02):
And that's, I think, my entire approach to the entire industry was no gatekeeping.
We share. we share there's business for everyone i love that it
sounds like along your journey you've had a lot of really good
opportunities and like right time right place like even just that picture of
being in the middle of those two photographers yeah what has been one of the
(14:22):
bigger challenges in the journey in your creative media career yeah i think
as a creative uh the art of business is probably the most challenging,
where's that job coming from?
Do you become a salesperson and do you lose, do you have that feel of losing
your copyright, your intellectual property?
(14:43):
Yeah. These are big questions, especially the advent of social media,
I think freaked us photographers out a lot.
And how much do you protect your work? That's not taught at school.
That's not taught in uni or anywhere.
It's not a conversation that comes up until you either get, you see your work
across some other brand's business website and you've not been credited and
(15:04):
you're not being paid for it and how much do you spend defending that process?
But if you don't put yourself out there, you don't gain your own clients in terms of that.
I think it's the negativity of what we think we need to protect ourselves.
I think it's a give and take of what is acceptable to you personally and how
(15:25):
far you go for the cause. Yeah. Okay.
You know how early stage photographers might approach a business or approach
someone that they might be like, hey, you should do this job for us because
you'll get exposure or you get experience and they try to get them to do it for free.
Yeah. What are your thoughts on that? This is quite a controversial topic. Yeah.
Yeah. It's still a question to today. It comes up. My DMs are full of,
(15:49):
hey, I've got this opportunity and you'll really get out there.
I've been out there for 20 plus years.
However, sometimes if it's beneficial to the end goal, maybe it is creating
awareness to an industry where I haven't entered.
Maybe it's something I want to delve into and maybe my experience in that field
(16:09):
isn't great. So I can actually cut my teeth on it. So yeah, there can be collaborations.
Maybe I can utilize the photos for promotion, especially in the social media
world. The more content you need to be relevant.
So maybe it's an industry that I can be relevant in. So yeah,
I will barter them. But it's not a freebie. It's you give me something,
I'll give you something.
Yeah, sort of that mutual benefit. Yes, you need to.
(16:32):
I've seen a few earlier on photographers who are trying to charge what,
you know, more professional level photographers are charging.
And I still think there's that element of having to put in the work as well.
But just on that, slightly different, but there was a graphic designer.
And this is pre most of the AI tools we have now, pre-COVID.
This graphic designer reached out to myself and like a hundred other Instagram profiles.
(16:55):
And basically, he sent all of us a message with a cartoonized graphic design
version of our profile picture.
But like done really well and really creative.
And he was showcasing his skill and it was a service that he was offering.
But he reached out to all of us and sent it to us for free. So each had this
sort of cartoon graphic image of ourselves.
And I asked if he could get our permission to also use it on his profiles.
(17:17):
And I thought that was such a smart strategy. It was for free.
It was a bit of that exposure.
But now he can link, he can, that graphic that he designed for us,
he can put on his profile, he can link it to us.
Yeah. And we love it. Like I loved it. The other people I know he did it for
loved it. And we're going to promote it and share his work as well. And did you?
Yeah, I did. Yeah. And I even paid him to do some other job.
Wow. So I think there's, yeah, there's tightness.
(17:40):
It's there again, time and place. I can break that down for you even further
as a business point of view.
Obviously, we have a modeling agency, but that modeling agency is also sectioned
with a talent agency. It's a catch-all for creatives.
And one of the things we say is, where are your leads coming from?
So you created the art, but where is your business going to come from?
(18:01):
And how do you find, do we be good at it?
Okay, in saying that we've got a talent agency and one of the big conversations
that we have is where are you going to find business? How do we monetize your creativity?
And these opportunities of how he reached out with his art, that's perfection.
(18:26):
That's putting yourself at risk because you've done work for free.
However, you may have already done the work for free to promote an unnamed person
and showing it on whether it's your email or Instagram or whatever it is,
but they personalize it to you and that's golden and something you can't really
be taught without mentorship.
Yeah. But I think it was quite ingenious with that. Yeah. No, I agree. Yeah.
(18:50):
Even logo designers getting started, like to create a heap of,
maybe not for a business specifically, but a heap of logo designs for specific
industries as part of your portfolio.
Well, the logo design, there's a
key question because you get a set budget to work with as
a designer and in that budget you need
to very somehow concisely you
(19:12):
know get what's in your client's head
onto paper yeah and so you've got fielding questions
you need to filter and you need to get down
and hone in on what they're likes and it's quite
a intimate process in fact and you
can have clients where they just want one thing change and
then it's gone on a completely different tangent then you've
(19:33):
used your budget of your drafts yeah and you're
like where do we go from here you know it's going to cost you another four or
five hundred bucks look that advent of ai i think can help draft the ideas down
but i think in the end you still need a graphic designer to interpret yeah definitely
humanity you mentioned ai yeah ai has been just like shaking everything you think of.
(19:57):
People love it, people hate it, people are in between.
When it comes to the creative media space, photography, videography, what are your thoughts?
How do you think it's affecting the industry and are you using it for any aspect of your workflow?
We love AI coming from a digital space as well.
I think you need to embrace the technology that's coming, that's around you,
(20:19):
especially if it can enhance your work or maybe ideas or maybe even be more
efficient in in terms of getting to an idea, the bottom of an idea.
And it's almost, for example, ChatGPT, you can talk to it like a coach.
And you can just throw questions at it and it'll spit out whatever it thinks.
But just remember, it's not creatively speaking. It's giving you suggestions
(20:42):
that are already out there.
Now, if it's telling you something that's already out there,
that means the next person who's asking the same question is going to get the
same response or similar, right?
Creativity is the form of art. Art is eye of the beholder. and being a human creating art.
Goodness knows what's going on in our brains based on emotional journey,
(21:04):
functional journey, emotional personality, and how you were raised. And AI was not raised.
It's literally getting information off a data set.
And it's stealing other personality traits from artists that have been of prior, of past.
(21:24):
So I think in the future AI can
be a great device to bounce off
ideas maybe to get more structure of what's
out there in the world but as a replacement I think there's an art form for
it as was most digital technology photoshop is the norm now had you know there
(21:44):
was a time where how could we trust a photo you know someone's figure for example
the jaw lines I could do with some lately,
but AI creating its own imagery, especially from text to a graphic or video
now, which is insane, right?
Just on that, have you seen Sora? Yes. Oh my gosh. It's exciting.
Yeah, it is. It is. For anyone who doesn't know, OpenAI's new video generator
(22:08):
model, which is still, I think it's in beta, so only a few select people can access it.
But imagine creating storylines and frontiers.
You can unlock different parts of your brain and create them into a reality,
whether it's mood board, whether it becomes a feature film, amazing.
Yeah, why not? Does it take away jobs as a photographer, videographer?
(22:30):
Look, I think there's a time and place. Can AI go and film a real estate property or a high rise?
It could maybe conceptualize it and give us a take on what camera lens to use,
maybe mood board again, planning, creative, you know, I think, yeah,
as a fantasy writer or anyone like that you could
create dreamscapes but then you know take it to
(22:52):
full production but i think short films or
anything like that we humans like to be entertained yeah yeah
i agree hot take drones and ai
now they're already so advanced um like what we have access
to in the public let alone what like the military use and stuff
yeah but just on that example you gave like doing real
estate videography yes just imagine drones powered
(23:13):
by ai powered by a storyline line yep
you could just i mean you can pretty much almost do this at the
moment but you could pretty much hit play and it could
just do an entire fly through of everything
it needs to yeah like you can already do flight paths on
drones but just think that plus way more advanced there's a
positive spin on that for sure because a
(23:33):
with real estate you've got everyday people
paying for this project yeah when they capture your house so if you can create
efficiencies in your workflow it means it leaves you open to do other things
yeah so if you're a drone you could program it to say i need an elevation x
height and you know rotate the approach and whatever it is.
(23:56):
The AI didn't know to do that. You still had to guide it. I would love for it
to just take off and fly and capture it for me and come back. Please come back.
That's the prayer that we do, the please come back prayer, especially when it's
like a kilometer away, right, at 120.
I saw you got a drone stuck in a tree a while ago.
Oh, he brought it up. I don't think I have the bill for that yet,
(24:17):
but I was in Melbourne and I was on a rooftop. We're capturing a telecoms tower.
It was a bit windy and gusty, and the cockatoos were trying to attack my drone
at a certain height. So I capped the height at 20 meters.
But the next night, it was a beautiful sunset of the same building.
So I was down on the ground level and I forgot to reset my 20 meters.
And so I took off vertically backwards to do a slingshot frame and didn't realize
(24:41):
the tree, probably about 50 meters away, was well and truly within the 20-meter range.
And I just went, and I'm like, where's my drone?
Oh, no. and the client had connections with
the crane company and yet to see that feel
but the footage was more valuable than
the drone physically because we've got insurances and liabilities for
(25:03):
that purpose and fly away drones back
in the day you'd see i've never seen this but a crane maybe getting a cat out
of a tree now it's a drone now it's a drone if it's worth it yeah for sure I
like what you were saying about increasing efficiency in our business and making
some of our services and stuff more accessible to everyday people. That's a great thought.
(25:26):
So, for those who are getting started in their creative career or looking to
get started in like a creative media career. Don't do it.
Yeah. What's some real advice that you would give if someone's wanting to get
into photography or videography? Is the market too saturated?
Is there room? What do you think?
Firstly, I'm laughing because instinctually as a creative, anyone coming into
(25:51):
your space, competition.
Really? Yeah. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. Yeah, even to this day,
even if you've just picked up a camera and they're like, oh,
Andy, I've got this Nikon or whatever it is and you're like,
that's actually a good camera.
That's a really good camera. Yeah. And your photo is going to be amazing.
I think it's that time where do you decide that you nurture that relationship,
(26:15):
help them, mentor and come in from that space or do you sort of sideswipe and
ghost them and, you know, yeah, good for you, good luck with that, you know.
Know it's just inherent i don't know if it's the competitive spirit in yourself.
My approach is take it tackle it head
on i had a mentor who i studied
with a high-end wedding photographer in melbourne and he was always come at
(26:40):
me or come with me but never against me like in a true you know competition
way and that really inspired me to think there's is enough business in the world for everyone. Yeah.
Is in fact, you could be a photographer for every one person in the world,
but you'll never cover everything.
So yeah, in terms of creating a niche in that aspect, then if you're in,
(27:03):
I'm, I'm in the commercial space where it's all business to business.
So it's a lot more less emotional than say weddings or families and pets and
kids, which I've done as well, but.
There's a niche for everyone and i think it's more
of yeah going into your narrow sort
of bottlenecked view of the world and concentrating on
(27:23):
that because then that actually enlightens and
lifts up that topic yeah and you can really hone in and you know make it flourish
and see it in a light where no one else can see it yeah definitely so it's supported
for sure i hear what you're saying about there being enough work sometimes we
have this mindset which i guess it's It's very natural to have,
(27:44):
but this mindset of lack or mindset of that there's a limited amount of resources
or of whatever it is out there.
I've over time continued to go further and further towards the mindset that
not that we've got unlimited resources, but basically within reason.
One thing I think for anyone starting out, I just think about it's a business
side of things like you were talking about earlier.
(28:05):
And I guess on that is making a decision about whether this is a hobby.
If you're starting out in this field, whatever creative media you're looking
at, or if it's something you actually want to turn into a business.
Because I think some people start out thinking they want it to be a business,
not realizing what it's going to take, when they're actually happy to just do
it as a side business or a side sort of hobby, which is fine as well.
(28:27):
Yeah. And the advent of social media consuming our minds, overwhelming us with,
I made $10,000 in a week. You're like, did you? I can do that.
It's just clicking a button, right? Right. And sometimes it is.
Sometimes if you work towards a particular, you know, industry or anything like that.
But business is once your hobby turns into a business, your mindset has to change.
(28:54):
Yeah. You have to hold on to your passion. Things that got you there the first place.
I think as a business owner you can lose that it can become a
lonely place as well if you don't have a team
around you if you don't have other like-minded creatives
you need to make sure you've got
the support around you to keep you going because you can spend countless hours
(29:15):
creating you could be into the midnights you know the dark hours yeah and you
come out of it and you're worn out you're going to run through another day and
that energy that lack of sleep that tires you creatively.
Yeah. So you need to rely on your peers, you know, have a network around you,
get a network around you, touch base with a photographer that you thought was a competitor.
(29:37):
No, actually collaborate, work together. Build community. Create something, build community.
Yeah. That's great. I think I've always had a camera in my hand and because
of that, it started off as a hobby, just taking photos at different places, getting cameras.
But then because of always having a camera in my hand, people would ask me to
do paid jobs. Hey, can you take photos of my, like you said,
(29:58):
pets or family or this or that, and then business jobs.
And as soon as I started doing paid work, I was like, I don't like this,
but mainly because I didn't like money.
I know make it make sense. I loved the act of good talking about capturing stories,
capturing moments, capturing that laugh or that smile or that two people looking at each other.
(30:21):
I didn't at the time have the right systems or structure in place for the business
side of things or the processes, or if someone's like even just creating shot
lists and that the formal side of that and having to do all of that at once with no direction,
that's where I was like, ah, but over time I did put those things in place and
I've found enjoyment in it again, because now it's like, I don't have to do
(30:41):
all of that for one job. That makes sense. It really does.
Firstly, it depends on the brand of camera you had, whether you're good or not.
But i think what you've
said not having that network around
you to say no just all you needed to
do was this or x or no you got this and keep
going and i know it it doesn't show you the other side you know that it's all
(31:06):
good and positive and it'll be fine but and the pressure of monetizing your
hobby is huge yeah it really is it puts a stress on us that you know are we
good enough or ready to charge something.
That's a big question. I think everybody asks. It's a fear. It is a fear,
but, you know, we can't live by our fears.
We need to conquer them. We need to shuffle forward if we can't stride.
(31:30):
Looking back, what is one piece of advice that you wish you had when you're
21 years old and starting out?
What would you say to 21-year-old you?
Get married earlier. Oh, yeah. I don't know. I think in terms of creative,
I think definitely find yourself a business mentor to tie in with your creativity.
(31:54):
I think that way your passion can stay and even ignite.
Yeah. It fuels you because you're getting to have this life of...
Creating a blank piece of paper, essentially, or a blank screen.
And whatever is coming out of you, the way you look at life,
(32:14):
whether it's through photography, video, illustration,
art in terms of paint or oils or vocal talent, you know, whether it's music
or so many ways of theater, dance,
like you are creating something out of nothing. Yeah. That is huge.
I love that. And I love watching and I'll constantly get, this is why YouTube is a trap for me.
(32:39):
It's why social media is a trap for me because I actually appreciate the level
of intensity that it took to even create that.
And even the production levels of some of these social media,
you know, vlogs and little, you know, I love actually, Elisha, I have a confession.
I watched salespeople give me pitches. Yeah. Pitch me. I love it. Right?
(32:59):
TVSN, Shopping Network. I want to, how good is it? Oh my gosh, yes. Yes.
It's so good. And I'm like, convince me, go. And I'll go to the markets.
In fact, we went to Noosa and my wife, she loves the market.
She's at the market. She's looking at all the goodies. And I cannot help but
just listen to the 80-year-old tell me about magnesium.
(33:20):
She did such a great job. She was massaging me. I'm like, tell me everything.
Tell me more. And she told me, I'm like, okay, I'm not buying anything today, but that was fantastic.
You know, have you done this online? We need to capture you.
She goes, oh, I love it. That's for you guys. I'm like, no, you're the type
of person we need to learn from.
But then I go to the next stall and my wife's like, come on,
Andy, you need to switch off. I said, but there's so much potential.
(33:43):
Yeah, no, I love seeing that. One question that I ask everyone that comes on
is, what is creativity to you?
Now, you've sort of touched on it here or there, but how would you answer that?
That's a very deep question. I think creativity is a portrayal of our humanity.
What made us who we are now?
Everyone's got their own journey. Yeah. Especially we've touched on AI.
(34:06):
It can't replicate your upbringing. It can't, you know, replicate our cultural backgrounds.
It can't replicate the tastes that we have, the foods that we appeal,
the smells. It can't know any of that.
It doesn't know what grape smells like, you know, but we do.
And when we paint that or when we capture that, we're talking to these other senses.
(34:28):
Uh that's where i think creativity
stems from it's really our core energy it's
our light and it's the way we choose to portray that light and whether it's
through yeah painting or photography or media or you know anything that you
choose to express that uh i have if there's time i've got this story of a young
(34:52):
lady i met she's 19 she came out of homelessness homelessness.
And I questioned her because I met her at a retail store and I could see,
I said, this is your first time selling me a phone.
She's like, yeah. I said, what else do you do outside of here?
She goes, oh, I love to draw.
I said, oh, okay. And do you have some of the drawings with you?
And she showed me her phone. I said, wow, these are really fantastic.
(35:13):
She goes, oh, do you think so? I said, why haven't you gone further with this?
Literally her eyes watered up. She started crying and I said, and her boss came over.
I said, I'm so sorry. Is this guy harassing you? Yeah, I know.
Essentially. I said, no, we can get back to selling phones. It's okay.
But she said, no one's ever asked me why, you know, why I do this and what do
(35:39):
I do and where is it at and to encourage me to go further.
I said, you know what, just for yourself, post every day, post your work in
progress and you'll look back on it as a journal.
And from that day I sort of forgot that I told her to do this and I saw her
account come up on my Insta and I saw that from the day I met her, three months later,
(36:01):
she'd been posting every single day and it was so heartwarming.
It nearly brought a tear to my eye because I could see the progress and I could
see the flourishment and wherever that takes her will be just unbelievable.
Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, that's inspiring. barring. Everybody,
I believe, has the ability to be creative.
(36:21):
That might look different for every person. But I feel like when we are in that
sort of zone, operating in that.
It's just, yeah, it's amazing. Yeah, it's touching.
And I think heart stems from love and happiness and passion and all the positive
things in the world, all the light of the world. Yeah. Yep. I agree.
(36:41):
So we've talked about being bold, being brave, putting yourself out there,
building community, networking, and that side of things.
Now to wrap this up. So if you're talking to this early stage creator who's,
you know, wanting to step into videography or photography.
Now, the industry has changed so much over the past couple of decades,
but it's also probably going to change quite a bit moving forward.
(37:04):
What do you think is like one thing that is important for an early stage creator to really prepare?
One thing that they should know to prepare them just from what you've seen looking forward? Yeah.
Coming into an industry dominated by technology, dominated by artificial intelligence,
it's strong, it's coming up.
You need to accept it. You need to accept the world around you. Don't fight it.
(37:27):
Use it. Use it to grow your art.
Keep the original message in your heart.
There or with you the whole time? Why did you start this? Yeah.
What's your vision? Then find the supporting network, as we mentioned, and you grow from that.
So you've got the seed, you've got to water the seed, you've got to fertilize
(37:48):
it, you've got to grow it, then it'll start growing as it grows,
you still need to maintain it, you might need to prune it, you may need to take things off it.
Right. You need to keep the, and then you'll get a flower and the flower pays you for your next meal.
But then that flower's gone. So you're going to need a new flower.
Power and so this rose bush that constantly
needs maintenance it's it is a high maintenance industry
(38:10):
you need to keep evolving yourself don't
get stuck yeah if you need guidance look to
your peers don't see them as competition yeah this
is something i think as a creative we could
get stuck on definitely yeah look to around you
look for the support look for a good agent i know
i love that thank you for sharing that my final thought just
(38:31):
off of what you were saying is that you could have 100 people
each with a camera in hand take a photo of something
and take it from a different angle different perspective different point
of view you could have a hundred people draw one picture and
draw it differently a hundred people tell a story about the same event and tell
it differently i think each and every person has a different way that they look
at the world based on like we're talking about their history their interpretation
(38:53):
or their experiences so when it comes to competition i am so far along the line
of there is so much space so much room obviously Obviously, we won't go into it now,
but there's the business realities of it and market size.
But there's so much room for collaboration. And that's something that's really big for me.
Thank you, Andy, for joining us today. Thank you. Yeah, it was great to have
a chat. It's been fun. Yeah. Made me dig deeper.
(39:16):
I enjoyed it. I hope you did too. Thank you. Yeah. We had to go down the memory bank, but it was good.
And for those who want to find out more about you, learn more about what you
do, where can they find you?
Yeah. Yeah, Instagram's our primary platform, knightscreative.bunderburg.
Our daily chaos is on there.
If you can make sense of it, amazing.
(39:37):
Because we literally throw up everything. Our day can look different every day.
For everyone listening, go follow knightscreative on Instagram.
And if you have a question or if you agree or disagree with something we've.
Music.
Said and talked about today, yeah, just reach out to us on social media.
You can post a comment on either of our social pages or send us a message.
Music.
(00:06):
As I started doing paid work, I was like, I don't like this.
If you don't put yourself out there, you don't gain your own clients.
How much do you protect your work?
That's not taught at school. That's not taught in uni. I feel like photography
has been devalued in a sense, but you still need that creative art.
You still need that skill. You still need to be able to tell a story properly.
(00:27):
What has been one of the bigger challenges in the journey in your creative media
career? I think as a creative, the art of business is probably the most challenging.
Yeah. Where's that job coming from?
They might be like, you should do this job for us, you get exposure,
you get experience and try to get them to do it for free. Yeah.
(00:47):
What are your thoughts on that?
Welcome Andy to the For The Creatives podcast. Thank you for having me.
Before we get started, can you introduce yourself and just tell me a bit about who you are?
Yes. This is the eternal question, Elijah. Who am I? I am Andy Knight. I run Nights Creative.
I've been a professional for closing in on just under 25 years now. That gives away my age.
(01:10):
Started probably about 23, late starter.
But yeah, the passion's just been there from the start. Professional photographer, that's been my key.
We've moved into video and also all aspects of creativity.
What initially led you to step into that media world? I was enrolled in digital
technology at university.
And that gave me the sort of tech space and that mind.
(01:33):
But we're talking about early 2000s. Yeah, okay. So this is pre-iPhone, pre-iPod.
And I took a break. It was a bit overwhelming in terms of computer science and engineering and maths.
So I took a break to the States and I discovered big billboards and they were so highly produced.
And I asked a mate when I was over there, who does that? They're like, a photographer.
(01:56):
I'm like, is that a thing? and I came, I was brought up in a low socioeconomic
neighborhood with a career advisor.
It was never a creative base.
Yeah. It was, what do you want to be? Do you want to be a pharmacist or a doctor or a computer tech?
And on that note, the creativity just realizing that it could be a profession
and a living just blew up and the next thing you know, I enrolled into a college
(02:20):
in Melbourne and yeah, I went from there.
With Knights Creative, would you say it's a studio that's focused on creative
media and how would you describe it?
Yeah, it's one of those catch-all businesses in the creative industry,
but primarily we're a production house.
We create via the mediums of photography and video, so in that visual space.
(02:42):
But it's also evolved into a content creation agency and that just means more
strategy around the photography of video. So it's purpose-built.
In your own journey, can you give a bit more of a picture When you enrolled
into the university in Melbourne, what did that look like?
Oh, the memories, Lesha. So we're talking about a 23 year old who's just come
(03:03):
back from the States, living his best life. Oh, sorry, 21 years old.
And the college, you needed to be, you needed to have a portfolio.
You needed to actually do well in media through high school.
Oh wow. Obviously having no, you know, background in that at all.
So I submitted a little photography folio, which was horrible looking back at it.
And I remember reading somewhere, you're not a professional photographer if you use flash.
(03:28):
And so when you use flash, obviously you light up things. It works out.
Here I am with my camera taking photos.
And we're talking film, not digital. Film costing 20 bucks a hit, processing it.
The roll of film costs another 20 bucks. So 40 bucks out, all my shots were black.
And I was like, okay, here we go. So I put myself through school.
(03:51):
Cool. The school taught me some technical skills. It was very film based.
So dodging, burning dark room as such.
It was the cusp of Canon coming out with digital and this camera came out as
full frame sensor and it was $16,000 and I was luckily enough back then housing
prices were so cheap. So I'd borrow it against the house a little bit and bought it.
(04:12):
And so I was very lucky in that way and it just changed the game.
Yeah, and that's how I got my whole teeth cut into the digital game,
but with film backgrounds.
I was very careful on my takes, even with digital. So I'd be very calculated
on when I would press that button.
Yeah, because nowadays with smartphones, you'd press the button a hundred times.
You don't have to have that same intention.
(04:36):
That's so true. And actually on that note, with that precision button pushing,
you could say, there's less fluking. so you've got a purpose for when you take
that photo yeah you can't just take a hundred pick the best one and be like
that's correct yeah yeah yeah.
So when did you transition into more of a career with photography or paid work?
(04:58):
When did you start doing paid work? Yeah. The good thing about college was they
instigated a business plan straight away.
Oh, wow. In 2000? Yeah, about 2002.
That's great. One of the subjects was business and business studies.
Yeah. And so they got you to register your ABN and they were like,
you know, your skill level will be already above the next person.
(05:19):
And so watch people wanting to hire you.
Maybe it's friends and family to start with, which is what happened.
So weddings were the first thing,
which was terrifying because the digital camera hadn't come in just yet.
So I'm charging $500 for an entire wedding, which you just wouldn't hear of right now.
But it was all shot on film as well. So I actually lost money.
(05:42):
I took so many photos and it cost me money to process it and print them.
And I actually lost money. It cost me a few hundred bucks extra than I was paid.
And so I gave him a free wedding gift. It was family and friends,
so be it. But I nailed it. The shoot was beautiful.
And I was stuck with one lens, a black and white only as well film.
(06:03):
And it was beautiful, actually. Yeah. Yeah, very rewarding.
It's a first pay job. Love that, early beginnings. And I guess you also gained
experience doing those wedding shoots.
Something I want to bring up a bit later is hearing your thoughts on when you
think it's okay to work for experience.
But I guess just hearing that and hearing the beginnings with film and before
we went into digital cameras, how have you seen the industry change?
(06:28):
It's a really good question because now that I'm a couple of decades in,
I can actually give a little bit of insight into what I've seen.
It's the advent of the digital space, the color code, the vibrancy that you can bring.
We used to hide a lot of mistakes in the darkroom by darkening certain sections
of the photo with, you know, the chemical process.
(06:50):
Now you can't hide as much because of the clarity and the megapixel count.
However, the fundamentals are still there. Yeah.
So if you don't come in with your composition and your general eye for photography
or what looks nice and natural, but also in terms of if you're working with
people, how does that translate? What's your communication?
(07:11):
Yeah. Right. And the comfort level, how do you make people feel good about themselves
in that instant of, say, it's a wedding and the couple are so nervous,
but you're paid as a professional to make these photos look good.
So you're under pressure.
All of a sudden, you learn rapport building. You learn romance on the fly.
(07:31):
Whisper those sweet nothings. And it turns into a laugh and a bit of fun.
And knowing that, and then how to manage crowd control.
You can have a few hundred people for that group photo.
And if you don't get it your bride
will be on the phone to you in three months saying where's the
shot yeah so you're sort of forced into it and then that i think if you're a
(07:52):
creative especially a photographer videographer cutting your teeth on a wedding
is a great way to enter the industry but go in prepared yeah yes the wedding
i guess is one of those that it's like you can't redo you You cannot do a do-over.
It's high stress, but if you've got a good mentor and you go tag along with
(08:12):
them and watch how the processes are, it's definitely worth it.
So there's a saying, a picture is worth a thousand words.
And then someone else said, if a picture is worth a thousand words,
a video is worth a million.
Yeah. What has your sort of journey been like in the world of videography?
Have you sort of done a bit of that yourself? That's a super question because
(08:33):
coming from a photography background, I know the rules of composition and what
feels good to the eye when you frame something. But nowadays...
I feel, oh, I wish that photo was moving. I wish there was that,
you know, could I see just a little bit around the corner or,
you know, and if we panned across.
(08:53):
And so my passion for video stems from wanting a little bit more of the shot of that singular photo.
There's still, you know, a lot of clients that just want photos,
but we try to package it with a video to accompany, to just really showcase
the true story of what, whether it's behind their product or their service.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so they can work hand in hand.
(09:14):
And when we talk about photography or videography or any media,
we're really talking about storytelling and telling a story,
telling a narrative, which is one of the things I love about photography.
Like I think I remember myself when I was younger, I started playing around on my dad's Nokia.
It was one of the old brick ones, but I had a camera. The camera was,
I don't even remember the specs. It would have been horrible.
(09:36):
But you're able to like capture moments still in time that told a story,
which I just thought was amazing.
And I know a lot of people these days, sometimes older people,
but some younger people as well, because we have our smartphones and anyone
can take a photo, they sort of feel like photography has been devalued in a
sense, but you still need that creative eye.
(09:57):
You still need that skill. You still need to be able to tell a story properly
and to sort of know what shot you're taking.
Like just pressing record or pressing, you know, the shutter doesn't actually
create an amazing photo.
What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, I like your insight into that.
And it's one of those Uncle Bob photographers over your shoulder at, say, the wedding.
(10:17):
It's the mum at the photo shoot, the fashion photo shoot. And she's like,
look how good my photo is. And you're like, yeah, it's great.
And sometimes you're like, oh, damn, that's really good. But I think with the
advent of smartphones...
I love that you can be super creative on the fly.
Yeah. Being able to capture your family, your pets, your loved ones,
(10:38):
creating your own memories in that.
You can go as far as making it a professional photo.
However, in the long run, when it's a full event that you need to capture,
the iPhone doesn't have the, you know, the endurance.
It doesn't have, or you might cop a phone call in the middle of it.
But it doesn't have the batch editing that you need to do. Once you've got a
(11:01):
thousand photos, what happens?
And you've got these external procedures, efficiencies, workflows.
Then you've got obviously the photographer themselves who've got the experience
for people skills and handling the equipment, having backups as well.
So if something fails, your iPhone's crashed, all the photos were on it and
that was say you're waiting for a birthday party, things like that.
(11:23):
So there's always room for a professional. yeah but
it's not so much that it's because of the
capture of the device it's about the external factors
that come with it yeah this sounds like there's a
time and place 100 what has been a project
that you've really enjoyed working on over over the years when
i first started uni for
(11:44):
photography my passion was the
fashion and i love how that rhymes but it's so
corny fashion for fashion right but I
was at uni and I went to Melbourne Fashion
Week and I was attending there and I said to
my friend that was there at the time I looked back at all the photographers I
said that's going to be me next year and they're
(12:05):
like yep you got this and finish uni
and I said all right guys time to get me into Fashion Week
they're like we don't know anyone in fashion we can get you
into weddings we can get you in portrait photography I'm like
no no know catwalks i saw the photographers they're like we don't
we don't know anyone i just happened to have that digital technology
background so i was able to build myself a
little website really badly but it had photos
(12:28):
on there and so built in flash uh html coding yeah raw seven steps hl coding
i learned it while i was ill over a week and it was enough to put some photos
online and when i applied for the accreditation i got accepted because i was
one of the rare people that had a website. And there I was the next year.
I had called it upon the universe that I was there. My photos were horrible.
(12:52):
However, by the third or fourth show, I happened to be positioned behind the
Vogue and the Herald Sun photographers.
And thank goodness they were shorter than me. And they let me shoot over their shoulder between them.
And it just so happened the models were instructed to look at them.
So instead of looking at two people, they looked down the middle.
Guess where my lens was? That's perfect. And so I was in prime position.
(13:17):
The memories, the experience, the knowledge I learned within five minutes was, to this day, I hold it.
Yeah, the step sequences that the models are taking, they're like,
don't wait till they're all the way at the back, your flash won't reach.
All those little things. Yeah. And they shared.
And they were transparent.
(13:38):
And they were not gatekeeping at all. and that really changed my whole outlook
from coming through uni where it was like secrets and portrait lighting secrets
and you won't know that until you're a bigger photographer.
All of a sudden, these mainstream guys who were all earning the same living
all of a sudden, sharing.
I'm like, wow, this is different. This is a new world. This is the real world.
(14:02):
And that's, I think, my entire approach to the entire industry was no gatekeeping.
We share. we share there's business for everyone i love that it
sounds like along your journey you've had a lot of really good
opportunities and like right time right place like even just that picture of
being in the middle of those two photographers yeah what has been one of the
(14:22):
bigger challenges in the journey in your creative media career yeah i think
as a creative uh the art of business is probably the most challenging,
where's that job coming from?
Do you become a salesperson and do you lose, do you have that feel of losing
your copyright, your intellectual property?
(14:43):
Yeah. These are big questions, especially the advent of social media,
I think freaked us photographers out a lot.
And how much do you protect your work? That's not taught at school.
That's not taught in uni or anywhere.
It's not a conversation that comes up until you either get, you see your work
across some other brand's business website and you've not been credited and
(15:04):
you're not being paid for it and how much do you spend defending that process?
But if you don't put yourself out there, you don't gain your own clients in terms of that.
I think it's the negativity of what we think we need to protect ourselves.
I think it's a give and take of what is acceptable to you personally and how
(15:25):
far you go for the cause. Yeah. Okay.
You know how early stage photographers might approach a business or approach
someone that they might be like, hey, you should do this job for us because
you'll get exposure or you get experience and they try to get them to do it for free.
Yeah. What are your thoughts on that? This is quite a controversial topic. Yeah.
Yeah. It's still a question to today. It comes up. My DMs are full of,
(15:49):
hey, I've got this opportunity and you'll really get out there.
I've been out there for 20 plus years.
However, sometimes if it's beneficial to the end goal, maybe it is creating
awareness to an industry where I haven't entered.
Maybe it's something I want to delve into and maybe my experience in that field
(16:09):
isn't great. So I can actually cut my teeth on it. So yeah, there can be collaborations.
Maybe I can utilize the photos for promotion, especially in the social media
world. The more content you need to be relevant.
So maybe it's an industry that I can be relevant in. So yeah,
I will barter them. But it's not a freebie. It's you give me something,
I'll give you something.
Yeah, sort of that mutual benefit. Yes, you need to.
(16:32):
I've seen a few earlier on photographers who are trying to charge what,
you know, more professional level photographers are charging.
And I still think there's that element of having to put in the work as well.
But just on that, slightly different, but there was a graphic designer.
And this is pre most of the AI tools we have now, pre-COVID.
This graphic designer reached out to myself and like a hundred other Instagram profiles.
(16:55):
And basically, he sent all of us a message with a cartoonized graphic design
version of our profile picture.
But like done really well and really creative.
And he was showcasing his skill and it was a service that he was offering.
But he reached out to all of us and sent it to us for free. So each had this
sort of cartoon graphic image of ourselves.
And I asked if he could get our permission to also use it on his profiles.
(17:17):
And I thought that was such a smart strategy. It was for free.
It was a bit of that exposure.
But now he can link, he can, that graphic that he designed for us,
he can put on his profile, he can link it to us.
Yeah. And we love it. Like I loved it. The other people I know he did it for
loved it. And we're going to promote it and share his work as well. And did you?
Yeah, I did. Yeah. And I even paid him to do some other job.
Wow. So I think there's, yeah, there's tightness.
(17:40):
It's there again, time and place. I can break that down for you even further
as a business point of view.
Obviously, we have a modeling agency, but that modeling agency is also sectioned
with a talent agency. It's a catch-all for creatives.
And one of the things we say is, where are your leads coming from?
So you created the art, but where is your business going to come from?
(18:01):
And how do you find, do we be good at it?
Okay, in saying that we've got a talent agency and one of the big conversations
that we have is where are you going to find business? How do we monetize your creativity?
And these opportunities of how he reached out with his art, that's perfection.
(18:26):
That's putting yourself at risk because you've done work for free.
However, you may have already done the work for free to promote an unnamed person
and showing it on whether it's your email or Instagram or whatever it is,
but they personalize it to you and that's golden and something you can't really
be taught without mentorship.
Yeah. But I think it was quite ingenious with that. Yeah. No, I agree. Yeah.
(18:50):
Even logo designers getting started, like to create a heap of,
maybe not for a business specifically, but a heap of logo designs for specific
industries as part of your portfolio.
Well, the logo design, there's a
key question because you get a set budget to work with as
a designer and in that budget you need
to very somehow concisely you
(19:12):
know get what's in your client's head
onto paper yeah and so you've got fielding questions
you need to filter and you need to get down
and hone in on what they're likes and it's quite
a intimate process in fact and you
can have clients where they just want one thing change and
then it's gone on a completely different tangent then you've
(19:33):
used your budget of your drafts yeah and you're
like where do we go from here you know it's going to cost you another four or
five hundred bucks look that advent of ai i think can help draft the ideas down
but i think in the end you still need a graphic designer to interpret yeah definitely
humanity you mentioned ai yeah ai has been just like shaking everything you think of.
(19:57):
People love it, people hate it, people are in between.
When it comes to the creative media space, photography, videography, what are your thoughts?
How do you think it's affecting the industry and are you using it for any aspect of your workflow?
We love AI coming from a digital space as well.
I think you need to embrace the technology that's coming, that's around you,
(20:19):
especially if it can enhance your work or maybe ideas or maybe even be more
efficient in in terms of getting to an idea, the bottom of an idea.
And it's almost, for example, ChatGPT, you can talk to it like a coach.
And you can just throw questions at it and it'll spit out whatever it thinks.
But just remember, it's not creatively speaking. It's giving you suggestions
(20:42):
that are already out there.
Now, if it's telling you something that's already out there,
that means the next person who's asking the same question is going to get the
same response or similar, right?
Creativity is the form of art. Art is eye of the beholder. and being a human creating art.
Goodness knows what's going on in our brains based on emotional journey,
(21:04):
functional journey, emotional personality, and how you were raised. And AI was not raised.
It's literally getting information off a data set.
And it's stealing other personality traits from artists that have been of prior, of past.
(21:24):
So I think in the future AI can
be a great device to bounce off
ideas maybe to get more structure of what's
out there in the world but as a replacement I think there's an art form for
it as was most digital technology photoshop is the norm now had you know there
(21:44):
was a time where how could we trust a photo you know someone's figure for example
the jaw lines I could do with some lately,
but AI creating its own imagery, especially from text to a graphic or video
now, which is insane, right?
Just on that, have you seen Sora? Yes. Oh my gosh. It's exciting.
Yeah, it is. It is. For anyone who doesn't know, OpenAI's new video generator
(22:08):
model, which is still, I think it's in beta, so only a few select people can access it.
But imagine creating storylines and frontiers.
You can unlock different parts of your brain and create them into a reality,
whether it's mood board, whether it becomes a feature film, amazing.
Yeah, why not? Does it take away jobs as a photographer, videographer?
(22:30):
Look, I think there's a time and place. Can AI go and film a real estate property or a high rise?
It could maybe conceptualize it and give us a take on what camera lens to use,
maybe mood board again, planning, creative, you know, I think, yeah,
as a fantasy writer or anyone like that you could
create dreamscapes but then you know take it to
(22:52):
full production but i think short films or
anything like that we humans like to be entertained yeah yeah
i agree hot take drones and ai
now they're already so advanced um like what we have access
to in the public let alone what like the military use and stuff
yeah but just on that example you gave like doing real
estate videography yes just imagine drones powered
(23:13):
by ai powered by a storyline line yep
you could just i mean you can pretty much almost do this at the
moment but you could pretty much hit play and it could
just do an entire fly through of everything
it needs to yeah like you can already do flight paths on
drones but just think that plus way more advanced there's a
positive spin on that for sure because a
(23:33):
with real estate you've got everyday people
paying for this project yeah when they capture your house so if you can create
efficiencies in your workflow it means it leaves you open to do other things
yeah so if you're a drone you could program it to say i need an elevation x
height and you know rotate the approach and whatever it is.
(23:56):
The AI didn't know to do that. You still had to guide it. I would love for it
to just take off and fly and capture it for me and come back. Please come back.
That's the prayer that we do, the please come back prayer, especially when it's
like a kilometer away, right, at 120.
I saw you got a drone stuck in a tree a while ago.
Oh, he brought it up. I don't think I have the bill for that yet,
(24:17):
but I was in Melbourne and I was on a rooftop. We're capturing a telecoms tower.
It was a bit windy and gusty, and the cockatoos were trying to attack my drone
at a certain height. So I capped the height at 20 meters.
But the next night, it was a beautiful sunset of the same building.
So I was down on the ground level and I forgot to reset my 20 meters.
And so I took off vertically backwards to do a slingshot frame and didn't realize
(24:41):
the tree, probably about 50 meters away, was well and truly within the 20-meter range.
And I just went, and I'm like, where's my drone?
Oh, no. and the client had connections with
the crane company and yet to see that feel
but the footage was more valuable than
the drone physically because we've got insurances and liabilities for
(25:03):
that purpose and fly away drones back
in the day you'd see i've never seen this but a crane maybe getting a cat out
of a tree now it's a drone now it's a drone if it's worth it yeah for sure I
like what you were saying about increasing efficiency in our business and making
some of our services and stuff more accessible to everyday people. That's a great thought.
(25:26):
So, for those who are getting started in their creative career or looking to
get started in like a creative media career. Don't do it.
Yeah. What's some real advice that you would give if someone's wanting to get
into photography or videography? Is the market too saturated?
Is there room? What do you think?
Firstly, I'm laughing because instinctually as a creative, anyone coming into
(25:51):
your space, competition.
Really? Yeah. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. Yeah, even to this day,
even if you've just picked up a camera and they're like, oh,
Andy, I've got this Nikon or whatever it is and you're like,
that's actually a good camera.
That's a really good camera. Yeah. And your photo is going to be amazing.
I think it's that time where do you decide that you nurture that relationship,
(26:15):
help them, mentor and come in from that space or do you sort of sideswipe and
ghost them and, you know, yeah, good for you, good luck with that, you know.
Know it's just inherent i don't know if it's the competitive spirit in yourself.
My approach is take it tackle it head
on i had a mentor who i studied
with a high-end wedding photographer in melbourne and he was always come at
(26:40):
me or come with me but never against me like in a true you know competition
way and that really inspired me to think there's is enough business in the world for everyone. Yeah.
Is in fact, you could be a photographer for every one person in the world,
but you'll never cover everything.
So yeah, in terms of creating a niche in that aspect, then if you're in,
(27:03):
I'm, I'm in the commercial space where it's all business to business.
So it's a lot more less emotional than say weddings or families and pets and
kids, which I've done as well, but.
There's a niche for everyone and i think it's more
of yeah going into your narrow sort
of bottlenecked view of the world and concentrating on
(27:23):
that because then that actually enlightens and
lifts up that topic yeah and you can really hone in and you know make it flourish
and see it in a light where no one else can see it yeah definitely so it's supported
for sure i hear what you're saying about there being enough work sometimes we
have this mindset which i guess it's It's very natural to have,
(27:44):
but this mindset of lack or mindset of that there's a limited amount of resources
or of whatever it is out there.
I've over time continued to go further and further towards the mindset that
not that we've got unlimited resources, but basically within reason.
One thing I think for anyone starting out, I just think about it's a business
side of things like you were talking about earlier.
(28:05):
And I guess on that is making a decision about whether this is a hobby.
If you're starting out in this field, whatever creative media you're looking
at, or if it's something you actually want to turn into a business.
Because I think some people start out thinking they want it to be a business,
not realizing what it's going to take, when they're actually happy to just do
it as a side business or a side sort of hobby, which is fine as well.
(28:27):
Yeah. And the advent of social media consuming our minds, overwhelming us with,
I made $10,000 in a week. You're like, did you? I can do that.
It's just clicking a button, right? Right. And sometimes it is.
Sometimes if you work towards a particular, you know, industry or anything like that.
But business is once your hobby turns into a business, your mindset has to change.
(28:54):
Yeah. You have to hold on to your passion. Things that got you there the first place.
I think as a business owner you can lose that it can become a
lonely place as well if you don't have a team
around you if you don't have other like-minded creatives
you need to make sure you've got
the support around you to keep you going because you can spend countless hours
(29:15):
creating you could be into the midnights you know the dark hours yeah and you
come out of it and you're worn out you're going to run through another day and
that energy that lack of sleep that tires you creatively.
Yeah. So you need to rely on your peers, you know, have a network around you,
get a network around you, touch base with a photographer that you thought was a competitor.
(29:37):
No, actually collaborate, work together. Build community. Create something, build community.
Yeah. That's great. I think I've always had a camera in my hand and because
of that, it started off as a hobby, just taking photos at different places, getting cameras.
But then because of always having a camera in my hand, people would ask me to
do paid jobs. Hey, can you take photos of my, like you said,
(29:58):
pets or family or this or that, and then business jobs.
And as soon as I started doing paid work, I was like, I don't like this,
but mainly because I didn't like money.
I know make it make sense. I loved the act of good talking about capturing stories,
capturing moments, capturing that laugh or that smile or that two people looking at each other.
(30:21):
I didn't at the time have the right systems or structure in place for the business
side of things or the processes, or if someone's like even just creating shot
lists and that the formal side of that and having to do all of that at once with no direction,
that's where I was like, ah, but over time I did put those things in place and
I've found enjoyment in it again, because now it's like, I don't have to do
(30:41):
all of that for one job. That makes sense. It really does.
Firstly, it depends on the brand of camera you had, whether you're good or not.
But i think what you've
said not having that network around
you to say no just all you needed to
do was this or x or no you got this and keep
going and i know it it doesn't show you the other side you know that it's all
(31:06):
good and positive and it'll be fine but and the pressure of monetizing your
hobby is huge yeah it really is it puts a stress on us that you know are we
good enough or ready to charge something.
That's a big question. I think everybody asks. It's a fear. It is a fear,
but, you know, we can't live by our fears.
We need to conquer them. We need to shuffle forward if we can't stride.
(31:30):
Looking back, what is one piece of advice that you wish you had when you're
21 years old and starting out?
What would you say to 21-year-old you?
Get married earlier. Oh, yeah. I don't know. I think in terms of creative,
I think definitely find yourself a business mentor to tie in with your creativity.
(31:54):
I think that way your passion can stay and even ignite.
Yeah. It fuels you because you're getting to have this life of...
Creating a blank piece of paper, essentially, or a blank screen.
And whatever is coming out of you, the way you look at life,
(32:14):
whether it's through photography, video, illustration,
art in terms of paint or oils or vocal talent, you know, whether it's music
or so many ways of theater, dance,
like you are creating something out of nothing. Yeah. That is huge.
I love that. And I love watching and I'll constantly get, this is why YouTube is a trap for me.
(32:39):
It's why social media is a trap for me because I actually appreciate the level
of intensity that it took to even create that.
And even the production levels of some of these social media,
you know, vlogs and little, you know, I love actually, Elisha, I have a confession.
I watched salespeople give me pitches. Yeah. Pitch me. I love it. Right?
(32:59):
TVSN, Shopping Network. I want to, how good is it? Oh my gosh, yes. Yes.
It's so good. And I'm like, convince me, go. And I'll go to the markets.
In fact, we went to Noosa and my wife, she loves the market.
She's at the market. She's looking at all the goodies. And I cannot help but
just listen to the 80-year-old tell me about magnesium.
(33:20):
She did such a great job. She was massaging me. I'm like, tell me everything.
Tell me more. And she told me, I'm like, okay, I'm not buying anything today, but that was fantastic.
You know, have you done this online? We need to capture you.
She goes, oh, I love it. That's for you guys. I'm like, no, you're the type
of person we need to learn from.
But then I go to the next stall and my wife's like, come on,
Andy, you need to switch off. I said, but there's so much potential.
(33:43):
Yeah, no, I love seeing that. One question that I ask everyone that comes on
is, what is creativity to you?
Now, you've sort of touched on it here or there, but how would you answer that?
That's a very deep question. I think creativity is a portrayal of our humanity.
What made us who we are now?
Everyone's got their own journey. Yeah. Especially we've touched on AI.
(34:06):
It can't replicate your upbringing. It can't, you know, replicate our cultural backgrounds.
It can't replicate the tastes that we have, the foods that we appeal,
the smells. It can't know any of that.
It doesn't know what grape smells like, you know, but we do.
And when we paint that or when we capture that, we're talking to these other senses.
(34:28):
Uh that's where i think creativity
stems from it's really our core energy it's
our light and it's the way we choose to portray that light and whether it's
through yeah painting or photography or media or you know anything that you
choose to express that uh i have if there's time i've got this story of a young
(34:52):
lady i met she's 19 she came out of homelessness homelessness.
And I questioned her because I met her at a retail store and I could see,
I said, this is your first time selling me a phone.
She's like, yeah. I said, what else do you do outside of here?
She goes, oh, I love to draw.
I said, oh, okay. And do you have some of the drawings with you?
And she showed me her phone. I said, wow, these are really fantastic.
(35:13):
She goes, oh, do you think so? I said, why haven't you gone further with this?
Literally her eyes watered up. She started crying and I said, and her boss came over.
I said, I'm so sorry. Is this guy harassing you? Yeah, I know.
Essentially. I said, no, we can get back to selling phones. It's okay.
But she said, no one's ever asked me why, you know, why I do this and what do
(35:39):
I do and where is it at and to encourage me to go further.
I said, you know what, just for yourself, post every day, post your work in
progress and you'll look back on it as a journal.
And from that day I sort of forgot that I told her to do this and I saw her
account come up on my Insta and I saw that from the day I met her, three months later,
(36:01):
she'd been posting every single day and it was so heartwarming.
It nearly brought a tear to my eye because I could see the progress and I could
see the flourishment and wherever that takes her will be just unbelievable.
Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, that's inspiring. barring. Everybody,
I believe, has the ability to be creative.
(36:21):
That might look different for every person. But I feel like when we are in that
sort of zone, operating in that.
It's just, yeah, it's amazing. Yeah, it's touching.
And I think heart stems from love and happiness and passion and all the positive
things in the world, all the light of the world. Yeah. Yep. I agree.
(36:41):
So we've talked about being bold, being brave, putting yourself out there,
building community, networking, and that side of things.
Now to wrap this up. So if you're talking to this early stage creator who's,
you know, wanting to step into videography or photography.
Now, the industry has changed so much over the past couple of decades,
but it's also probably going to change quite a bit moving forward.
(37:04):
What do you think is like one thing that is important for an early stage creator to really prepare?
One thing that they should know to prepare them just from what you've seen looking forward? Yeah.
Coming into an industry dominated by technology, dominated by artificial intelligence,
it's strong, it's coming up.
You need to accept it. You need to accept the world around you. Don't fight it.
(37:27):
Use it. Use it to grow your art.
Keep the original message in your heart.
There or with you the whole time? Why did you start this? Yeah.
What's your vision? Then find the supporting network, as we mentioned, and you grow from that.
So you've got the seed, you've got to water the seed, you've got to fertilize
(37:48):
it, you've got to grow it, then it'll start growing as it grows,
you still need to maintain it, you might need to prune it, you may need to take things off it.
Right. You need to keep the, and then you'll get a flower and the flower pays you for your next meal.
But then that flower's gone. So you're going to need a new flower.
Power and so this rose bush that constantly
needs maintenance it's it is a high maintenance industry
(38:10):
you need to keep evolving yourself don't
get stuck yeah if you need guidance look to
your peers don't see them as competition yeah this
is something i think as a creative we could
get stuck on definitely yeah look to around you
look for the support look for a good agent i know
i love that thank you for sharing that my final thought just
(38:31):
off of what you were saying is that you could have 100 people
each with a camera in hand take a photo of something
and take it from a different angle different perspective different point
of view you could have a hundred people draw one picture and
draw it differently a hundred people tell a story about the same event and tell
it differently i think each and every person has a different way that they look
at the world based on like we're talking about their history their interpretation
(38:53):
or their experiences so when it comes to competition i am so far along the line
of there is so much space so much room obviously Obviously, we won't go into it now,
but there's the business realities of it and market size.
But there's so much room for collaboration. And that's something that's really big for me.
Thank you, Andy, for joining us today. Thank you. Yeah, it was great to have
a chat. It's been fun. Yeah. Made me dig deeper.
(39:16):
I enjoyed it. I hope you did too. Thank you. Yeah. We had to go down the memory bank, but it was good.
And for those who want to find out more about you, learn more about what you
do, where can they find you?
Yeah. Yeah, Instagram's our primary platform, knightscreative.bunderburg.
Our daily chaos is on there.
If you can make sense of it, amazing.
(39:37):
Because we literally throw up everything. Our day can look different every day.
For everyone listening, go follow knightscreative on Instagram.
And if you have a question or if you agree or disagree with something we've.
Music.
Said and talked about today, yeah, just reach out to us on social media.
You can post a comment on either of our social pages or send us a message.
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