March 17, 2025 • 64 mins
Join us for a powerful conversation with Berend McKenzie, who candidly shares his journey through creativity, resilience, and the vital importance of community. In this episode, we explore how Berend's early challenges, including struggles with ADHD and past traumas, propelled him toward the arts and shaped his identity as a creative.
Berend opens up about mentors who guided him on his path, demonstrating how crucial these connections were in helping him transform adversity into artistic expression. As he reflects on his vulnerabilities, he emphasizes how embracing these aspects has not only enriched his work but inspired authenticity in others.
We dive into the role of community in Berend's life, especially how being actively involved with various groups has provided support and motivation during dark times. As a resilient creative, Berend reminds us that isolation is one of the most significant threats to an artist’s journey, encouraging listeners to seek and engage in supportive environments.
Throughout the episode, we are reminded of the power of vulnerability, mentorship, and connection. Berend's final words challenge us to "just say yes." Reflecting on the opportunities that arise from this simple act, he illustrates how life can transform when we open ourselves up to new experiences. Don’t miss this inspiring episode that invites you to embrace your creative journey!
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Berend on Instagram
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
room full of other alcoholics to go.
Oh, my god, I'm not the worstperson in the room because she's
far worse than I am, you know.
You know I'm not the bestperson in the room, because you
know I'm not the best person inthe room because he has nicer
shoes than I do.
Right, like it keeps you right.
Community keeps me right-sized.
(00:31):
Community keeps me engaged,right-sized and feeling like I
have a place and that's my job.
I can't.
None of the things that havehappened for me since I moved to
Toronto the only reason whythey've happened is because I
took the step to go out to thesethings to make myself seen and
(00:55):
heard, and when I wasn't doingthat, I found disillusionment, I
found victimhood and I foundisolation and loneliness.
Victimhood and I foundisolation and loneliness.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Wow, man, you could not have summed it up better or
more clearly.
I mean, this is the theme ofeverything we're about at For
the Love of Creatives and youjust wow.
Hello and welcome to For theLove of Creatives podcast.
(01:35):
I'm Maddox.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
And I'm Dwight.
We're the.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Connections and Community Guys, and today we are
joined by our featured guest,barron McKenzie.
Hello, welcome, barron.
So glad to see you.
Just so the audience knows, Iknow Barron because he was a
guest on my previous podcast alittle over two years ago, so
it's a reunion.
We haven't seen each othersince then.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
I know, and it's so good to see you Feels like a
whole lifetime.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
We've had a lifetime.
Since we've seen each other,lots have changed.
Yes, well, I'm going to turn itover to you and let you tell
the audience a little bit aboutyourself.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Well, all right then, my name is Barry McKenzie.
I am an actor, writer, producerliving in Toronto, canada, and
yeah, I'm a playwright.
I write short stories, artistsanything artistic I love to sink
my hands into.
And, yeah, I'm really happy tobe here.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Good to have you.
Yeah, glad you've joined us.
Could you tell us a little bitabout how you got started on the
creative path?
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Sure, I've been a creative.
I was a creative kid, like youknow.
I think my first skill waslearning how to lie.
You know, I wasn't always thebest actor when it came to lying
.
I always got those big, wideeyes and turned kind of pale and
(03:12):
my family could always tellwhen I was lying.
But it sure gave me a goal towork towards to see if I could
get away with the lie.
But I've always been creative.
I've always been.
I've always been creative.
I've always been drawn toanything I I movies, tv shows.
(03:35):
Uh, my first love was listeningand I was just thinking about
this the other day, listening toum, the grim, all those really
dark fairy tales, like I was.
I was so young and I was atoddler and we had these and I
just remember the, the mood ofthem and the way, the
(03:59):
vocalization of these storiesand the darkness of them and the
light of them.
And I think even at that pointin my life I was sort of
synapsing off of those twothings, the dark and the light
and it just followed.
I just followed through.
(04:20):
I kind of stumbled into things.
I'm a stumbler into life.
I don't realize I can dosomething or I'm attracted to
something, unless I stumble intoit, and then it becomes a
passion, and so, yeah, I've beencreating pretty much all my
life.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
That's wonderful.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
I'm curious so, as this began to show up in your
life.
Wonderful, I'm curious, so, asthis began to show up in your
life, what kind of messages didyou get from those around you?
You know the, the people, thattheir words have great influence
on us.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Um, with my family.
I I sucked at school Like I wasterrible, I had ADHD, dyslexic,
and I had a learning disability.
So I think my parents, myadoptive parents I was adopted
(05:18):
at the age of one grew up in awhite family.
We grew up all over northernAlberta, which is, uh, very
conservative.
Not no people of color, blackand indigenous, but other than
that, um, and so I think myfamily, my parents, were just
glad that I found something thatI was half decent at, like I,
(05:42):
at one point I could really singand I didn't know I could sing.
It was grade four or five and ateacher came up.
His name was Mr Gilchrist andwe had just moved to this very
small town and and life for meat home was not very good.
And in my first class we had achoral, a choir class, and he
(06:07):
came and stood beside each of usand he spent a lot of time
beside me and when the class wasover he called me to the side
and said oh, my God, I'm introuble.
It's like barely two hours intoschool, my, you know my, my
fifth year and I'm I'm alreadyin trouble.
It's like, barely two hoursinto school, my, you know my, my
fifth year and I'm I'm alreadyin trouble.
And he said you have a reallygood voice, would you like to
(06:30):
join the choir?
And I was like sure, but upuntil that point, like I like to
sing.
But I didn't know I could singand that then turned into being
featured in these schoolassemblies where you know Joseph
.
I played Joseph in Joseph andthe Amazing Technicolor
(06:52):
Dreamcoat and got Noah and hisfloating zoo and all these sort
of.
I was always featured in thesethings and it really at that age
, at that time in my life, meantso much because I come from a
childhood where abuse is a partof my story and school and choir
(07:13):
was a real escape for me and ina world and a time when I
didn't feel special, this oneteacher really did allow me to
discover that I had something tooffer the world besides, uh,
(07:34):
problems and lying and stealingand acting out and and abuse and
and and being beat up by myfather.
So you know it was.
That's where it started.
I've had, I'd had, and eversince then I've had mentors all
my life.
None of my work, none of my,none of what I've done in my
(07:54):
life would be possible withoutthe um, the beautiful help in
hand I've gotten from people whoknow way more about what I'm
trying to achieve than I do.
So I've really, since that time, I've kept my eye out for the
(08:14):
people that are my champions andI hold on to them like life
rafts.
I think that that's part of myjob is to find the people who I
know are my champions and whobelieve in what I do, aren't
jealous of what I do or bring tothe table, and only are there
(08:36):
to inspire me and to support me.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
And does this show up as collaborations or true
mentorships?
Speaker 1 (08:56):
And does this show up as collaborations or true
mentorships?
This I was so screwed up cominginto college I was 19.
It was the.
I'd lived through the.
I came out when I was.
I ran away from home when I was15.
I lived on the streets ofEdmonton as a queer gender.
(09:18):
I thought I was very confusedabout my gender, found a
community of drag queens at thisbar in Edmonton, alberta, and
became a drag queen and learnedhow to perform with them.
So they were kind of my initialmentors.
You know, don't steal, show up,rehearse, you know all those
(09:43):
like street smart things thatdrag queens are really good at
teaching you and how to do mymakeup, take pride in my work,
all that stuff.
And then the AIDS pandemic hitand suddenly at a very young age
I was going to three or fourfunerals a month and drinking
(10:05):
alcoholically and really lost inmy life.
And I was at about an age of19,.
A friend of mine could see thatmy alcoholism was getting worse
and told me if you don't,you're just going to be a
drunken loser all your life.
And I was like, yeah, well,fuck you.
(10:26):
And so I showed up, hung overto this audition for a musical
theater program and how I madeit through that audition I have
no idea.
Like I was literally in betweenthe dance and ballet, which I
can't do either, and ballet,which I can't do either.
But during those audition timesI was sleeping in a on a on a
(10:55):
mat underneath a stairwell, justtrying to get some energy up
for the next phase.
But I fluked into this, intothis, I stumbled into this
program and that's where I metTim Ryan and a lot of the other
professors.
What I got, especially in theearly 80s, you had to fit into a
category right Well, in Albertaand Edmonton at that point I
(11:16):
was the only Black kid in thatprogram and they didn't know
what to do with me because I hada high voice.
I wasn't like gangster black, Iwas more I don't know Bob, the
Drag Queen black.
You know, I was more Faye thanHood and I literally was told by
(11:40):
the main acting professor thatthere was no space for me in
this career at all.
And Tim was the one thatchampioned me and said no,
absolutely, there is space.
And that really gave me courageand gave me the inspiration to
work harder and to.
(12:06):
At that time in my life I likedbeing underestimated, because
that gave me the drive to proveyou wrong.
Now I've changed that.
I've changed that idea of beingunderestimated.
Now I demand when I meet people.
Now I don't underestimate you.
If you tell me you can dosomething, I believe you and I
expect the same thing back.
(12:26):
And I think that that's one ofthe things that Timothy taught
me was you know, you have tohave respect for yourself and
you have to demand to be seenand heard and you have to work
hard.
And so he was my first, andthen it just went from there to
a bunch of mentors andeverything else.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
So those are amazing life lessons, are they not what?
An amazing gift.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Amazing, amazing, especially at that time, because
you know there were no angelsin America.
There was all that stuff.
But even then those plays didnot have people like me in them,
unless somebody like Timthought outside like I hate the
fact that he would have to thinkoutside of the box to put me
into a show, but that's that'swhat I got all the time.
(13:13):
And then, at the age of 21, Iwas diagnosed HIV positive and
that's when sort of I justthought I was going to die.
And so I lived my life for manyyears addicted and very sick
and almost died, until I gotsober in 20.
(13:35):
Oh, it's been 22 years, 20.
It'll be 23 years this yearthat I got sober Congratulations
.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
That is an enormous accomplishment.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Bravo.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Thank you.
I appreciate it.
But once that happened, becauseof those years of darkness
where I wasn't taking part inlife and not taking part in art
and not seeking mentorship, I'dlost contact with everybody that
supported me because I was justtoo awful to be around.
(14:14):
I really, once I got sober, Ithought, if I could do good
stuff when I was high and drunk,what could I do sober?
So once again, I startedlooking for those mentors and
those people that believed in me, and those came in the form of
agents who saw something in me,casting agents who saw something
(14:35):
in me and cast me in my firstcouple of films and I really did
dive into the acting film andTV acting.
I worked with Halle Berry andCatwoman.
I worked with Angelina Jolie inmy very first film was with
Angel Angelina Jolie right aftershe, uh, won the Oscar.
Um, both terrible movies, but Iwas in them.
(14:57):
So, hey, I got paid, um, and itreally was a process of me
looking for those people thatbelieved in my talent, believed
in what I brought to the tableand who I could also enhance
their lives.
Right Like, it's not just aboutme taking, it's really about me
(15:17):
also bringing value and valueto what you do, bringing value
and value to what you do, andthat was a lesson that I had to
learn that it's not just abouttaking, taking, taking, it's
about giving back, and I thinkthat's what you guys do with
your, with your podcast, whichis really exciting.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Well, thank you, we're honored for that
recognition.
I am curious about how youmentioned that you have been
inspired by your mentors.
Yeah, you've had those peoplewho've encouraged you.
Have you had the opportunity tobe a mentor for others, and
(16:00):
what's that been like?
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Yeah, I have.
I mean, I just learned, I justtreated other people the way I
was treated and it's been superrewarding.
It's been as an alcoholic Idon't know if anybody has
alcoholics in their lives, butwe tend to be very selfish and
(16:23):
I'm an actor, so it's about meall the time, even and and
sometimes my way of getting toconnect with you is by delving
into my own story in order, andthat can sometimes seem
self-serving and sort of makingit about me when it's not.
So being a mentor has reallyallowed me to give of myself
(16:49):
without expectation of gettinganything back and no ownership.
I've had mentors that came inas mentors and left as dangerous
, because what I found is thatthey wanted to own my work.
They wanted to own what I do.
They wanted to take credit forthe things that I'd done and I
would never say that I, none ofmy work and none of the plays or
(17:17):
anything that I've done wasever done on my own steam alone.
But for them to take credit formy work, that was a bridge too
far.
So for me as a mentor, I won'treally get into mentorship with
somebody if I feel that there'sany sort of competition with
them, If I feel a little bit oflike, oh, jealousy, like, oh, I
(17:37):
wish I had what they had, andthat doesn't happen often.
So I've really been able towork with some really exciting
new filmmakers and writers andyou're just there to listen,
like there, to support, there,to be encouraging, giving notes
(18:00):
to writers.
A lot of people don't know howto do that.
A lot of people are dreamkillers, especially in the film
industry, which I've learned wewere talking earlier.
One of my favorite sayings issay yes before I say no.
And what I've learned througheven just giving notes to
(18:21):
mentees, that my job is not totell you no, this can't be done,
or no, that's not a good idea,or no.
Why would you even think that?
My job, I feel, is to say yesto everything that you're doing,
but also giving my own honestyabout where I think you could
(18:44):
maybe push the story into a newdirection or do this with it or
take it.
Maybe this character might beable to do this.
So it's about it's about nuance.
Mentorship for me is aboutnuance.
How I speak to the menteereally can be the difference
between failure and and successfor them, and I don't want to be
(19:06):
in the failure category ever.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Beautiful.
I love that.
Maren, you have been blessed tohave, throughout your life,
guardian angels have shown up,these people that have believed
in you and mentored you, andeven though there was a few in
there that tried to takeadvantage of you, you've still
(19:29):
been really, really blessed withall that has shown up.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
What did you?
What do you believe that youdid or that you were that
attracted those people to you?
Because you know we live, I'm afirm believer in the law of
attraction.
Nothing's coincidental.
You showed up in life in amanner that drew those people to
(20:00):
you.
Can you identify what that was?
Speaker 1 (20:10):
you.
Can you identify what that was?
Well, I think it has to do withuh, for me it had to do with
the skill set that I brought,like when I met that, that, that
that teacher in grade five,about the singing.
I had the tool.
I was raw and didn't know howto use it.
His job was to teach me.
But once I think I brought, Ibring passion.
I bring, I bring a sort ofstill, even at the age of 56.
(20:34):
I bring like a childlikenaivete to things.
I bring a curiosity.
I ask a stupid amount ofquestions.
I take risks with my work as awriter.
(20:57):
I knew right away that I had avery distinctive voice.
I'm teachable, distinctivevoice, I'm teachable.
I'm accountable.
I show up for deadlines.
I push through when it's really, really difficult.
(21:17):
Those are all things that Ijust got from life.
I think I had to do that in mylife.
I had to push myself to show upeven when I didn't want to.
So I think a lot of thesementors that I have gotten, we
see in each other what we see inourselves, or vice versa.
Um, I see what I see in you, Isee in me, and I think they just
(21:38):
saw that I had that, that driveto to move forward can we go a
little deeper?
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Mm-hmm, I think you're right onto something
there.
You know, we've all knownpeople that showed up with the
talent and the skill andaccountability and the drive and
all those things that youmentioned and still didn't get
any breaks Right?
I think that you're teeteringright on the edge of it.
(22:07):
I think that you're teeteringright on the edge of it.
Maybe it was.
You know, you said people showup and reflect back to what was
it that you must have been, theway you were showing up, that
you were reflecting to them.
You know, it's something insidehere.
(22:28):
It's not what you were doing,it's.
I just have to believe it wassomething inside that drew all
of those people to you.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
I mean, it's a really good question and it's funny
that that, like I have beenworking with two amazing mentors
I've discovered through somewriting programs since I moved
to Toronto, specifically lastyear.
I found a really amazing filmmentor and on the other hand, I
(23:00):
found an amazing TV writingmentor and the other day I was
like one of them.
His name is Anthony Q Farrell.
He wrote on the Office, he's anaward-winning showrunner, he's
the TV guy and he is just one ofthe most amazingly supportive,
(23:23):
beautiful, encouraging humansthat you could ever have in your
life and, for whatever reason,he has chosen to really take me
under his wing.
Same with Mitch LeBlanc he isone of Canada's up and coming
film writers Smart, dedicated,funny, all those things and he
(23:50):
too is somebody that I met thislast year and has taken me under
his wing.
And just the other day I wasthinking like how did I get so
blessed?
What did I do to deserve and toattract these people into my
life?
And to not answer your question.
(24:14):
I don't know.
I really don't know what thatis.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I think I know, as you continue to talk, it is
becoming kind of it's cominginto focus Everything that
you're saying.
It's coming into focusEverything that you're saying
and then, built in with my ownintuition, which is really
(24:41):
strong, I get that it's becauseyou hold a certain belief system
.
What is that belief system?
You hold a certain beliefsystem that makes this all
possible Not just possible, butprobable.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
You've attracted these people to you, but you've
done it with a belief system.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Oh my God, these are questions that I get asked and
then I need to like spend a yearcontemplating, oh and I think
that's valid for me.
I think that's valid.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
That's definitely something that taps far beneath
the surface yeah, and I I thinkit's a really great question.
I think my belief system, uh,the core of it is you know what?
(25:33):
I really do not know what I sitdown.
I think, for me, it's aboutI've never enjoyed life.
I think, for me, it's aboutI've never enjoyed life.
I've never been somebody thatwoke up in the morning and went
(25:55):
oh my goodness, I can't wait tosee what tomorrow brings or
today brings.
I've never been that person andI think what has pushed me
forward is almost thatdetermination to find the joy of
(26:20):
life before my life is over, tofind that morning where I wake
up and go.
I can't wait to see what todaybrings.
Morning where I wake up and go.
I can't wait to see what todaybrings.
Last year, in 2022, was probablythe hardest year I ever had,
(26:45):
because I'd moved across thecountry.
I'd lost my partner of 28 yearsin 2019.
And that's when Maddox and Ifirst met.
I had just moved to Edmonton, Iwas broken.
The grief was so heavy and deepthat I just needed a shift and
change, moved across the countrywhen I started writing film and
television and wanting to takethis risk while I could, with my
(27:08):
age, with the money that I had.
But and it landed here inToronto thinking that everything
would just be laid at my feetand I, I spent like a year of
no's.
Every door I tried to open wasa no, every single thing that I
(27:29):
attempted and tried to pushthrough was a no.
And this time last year, atChristmas time, on Christmas day
, I wrote out a suicide note and, and you know, I, I sought help
(27:50):
, I got help and I think, like Iwant to learn how to, I really
would love to learn how to lovelife and I think that's what
keeps me going, and I thinkthat's what keeps me going, and
(28:14):
oftentimes I need people to seewhat I bring to the table before
I see it in myself.
And sort of as soon as I gothelp with the suicide stuff, the
ideation and the planning lastyear, all of a sudden this last
year just blew up for me Likeall these opportunities, all
these mentorship opportunities,these money-making doors and
(28:37):
gates open, these connectionswith people in the industry that
I could only have dreamed of.
So, to be completely honest,with that very sort of deep
question, I don't know what mydriving force is.
All I know is that art hassaved my life on every level, at
(29:00):
every time, in every wayimaginable, art has been the
thing that has saved me frommyself.
It's saved me from others.
It's saved me from the world,specifically now with what's
happening in the United Statesand in Canada as well the rise
(29:21):
of the right and the transphobia, and the hatred and the fear.
The day after the election and Iwas I spent three weeks just.
I had so much hope and I hadn'tallowed myself to have hope
about an election for many, manyyears.
And the dread and the anxietyand the sadness and the fear
(29:44):
that overtook me at the night ofthe election when I saw where
it was going, the completedevastation and the disbelief
that people could be this stupid.
I woke up that next morning andthe only thing I knew to do was
(30:06):
to sit down at my computer,open up my script that I've been
working on that's about AIDSand hockey and addiction and
dive headfirst into that.
And by, I think, I opened thatdocument at eight o'clock in the
morning.
By seven o'clock at night, Iate dinner Like it, literally.
(30:30):
And I knew then that the onlything that's going to save me
right now save my mental health,save my spirit, which is just
starting to sort of heal fromthe suicide.
Stuff is my art, is my art.
That's the driving force.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
You know, barron, I just have to say this is so
unbelievably rich because I knowbeyond a shadow of a doubt that
(31:14):
there are going to be so manypeople when they listen to this
that can identify so completely,people who are either in it
right now or have gone throughit or are on their way into it.
You know, you had a whole yearwhere nothing, no breakthroughs,
a whole year after you movedwhere you just couldn't win for
losing, and then all of a suddensomething shifted and the next
year has just been like, wow,right, am I understanding
(31:36):
correctly?
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Something shifted inside of you.
Yeah, that's the only way thatcan happen.
Something shifted inside of youand I kind of keep kind of
tipping back to it because thisis so powerful If you can
identify what shifted in you,others will hear this and be
able to identify what needs toshift in them, even your mentees
(32:00):
that you work with.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
This is so rich no-transcript or sorry, there's
(32:40):
somebody at my door.
Sorry that's okay.
Sorry, god sorry, I haven't hadanybody show up at my door.
That means a gentleman caller,nothing.
(33:01):
He's been trying to get in mydoor for the last 15 minutes.
Anyways, sorry, there wassomething about that moment and
that time that I um.
I think what happened when Ifinally came out of the fog is
(33:25):
that I realized that there wasmore to live for, and I don't
know if that's answering yourquestion, dude, I really don't.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
You're doing great.
Just keep going.
You're doing great.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
So this is the thing for me.
This is the thing for me.
I don't spend a lot of timeanalyzing why and I notice that
about myself even in thesequestions.
When I apply for theseapplicants would apply in
writing for writing rooms or toget into these mentorships or to
do these things Um, I the.
(34:02):
The questions always come uplike what is your, your process,
your process?
I don't know.
I wake up, you know I have atea, I doom scroll, I play Candy
Crush, and then at 10 o'clock Isit down at my computer and I
write for six hours and then Imake dinner and then I go to bed
, and so I don't spend a lot oftime of asking why, because why
(34:29):
for me has never been important.
For me, it's always been thefact that it is.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
That's beautiful, and it strikes me that sometimes
you're asked why in thoseapplications?
Because they want to know,they're trying to figure it out
too.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
They're trying to figure it out too they're trying
to figure it out, hell yes andso I like, I appreciate the the
question, but I mean the factthat I was thinking about why am
I like?
I don't ask a question like whyare these people attracted to
me?
To figure it out.
For me it's, it's, it's, it's agratitude piece, it's that
(35:16):
humility piece that when youspeak about being humble, you're
not humble, you're talkingabout it but you're not really
humble.
But that's when the truehumility of me comes out, is
when I'm sitting there in mywalks in the neighborhood or
whatever, and I'm going why, whyare these people so interested
(35:38):
in my life?
Or why do these people want togive so freely of themselves to
me and my work?
So it is a great question.
I just don't know that I havethe answer, and maybe, if we
meet up in the next six months,I'll be able to, you know, give
you a little more than what Ihave, because it ain't coming.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
Well, that's OK.
Shared a great deal that a lotof people will be able to relate
to.
When it comes to looking at theincredible successes that you
have, in some cases, stumbledinto the bright lights, the
large and small you know, justhaving that assurance that you
(36:26):
you had a talent when you were achild that someone had, they
appreciated it enough to turnyou onto it and to help you to
grow and nurture that talent.
And then you contrast that withall of the things that you have
(36:48):
had to endure, that others haveas well.
But we don't take a chance tolook at the totality of all of
the things that we carry theabuse from the time that you
were a small child, having togrieve the loss of someone that
you had loved for so long andhad been such a part of your
(37:13):
life, and having to figure outhow to find your way on the
street, and you know, as youshared, what it was to leave
home at 15, I was thinking aboutsome similarities in my own
story and the pandemic we allwent through that.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
And I say that there's a lens that we can look
at some of these things, some ofthese great losses, through,
where, if we're lucky, we get achance to earn those scars,
because it means that we'velived long enough to have
experienced what it is to loveand to have that loss.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Yeah, and I mean as you're speaking.
As you're speaking, I, as achild, I was given up by my
white mother, who was estrangedfrom just it was an underage
white mother in the middle ofAlberta in 1968.
(38:25):
I was given up by her, so I wasabandoned by her.
Father wasn't in the picture.
Then I was adopted into thiswhite family who my parents, as
well-intentioned as they thoughtthey were, were used their
white supremacy within thefamily to keep the three brown
(38:48):
kids that they adopted orfostered as the target and the
problem and if it wasn't for youand then use their you use
their white privilege to sort ofput a mask of a veil of
perfection around us so nobodywould ever ask any questions At
(39:11):
that time in my life.
Um, when I was, I remember oneday I was sitting in the
backseat of the car and I don'tknow how old.
I was very young and I had justbeen beaten up by my dad and I
(39:31):
at that stage, when I was young,like I was four or five, five
or six something I said to mymom, who was in the passenger
seat.
I said Ivor, my best friend atthe time, his parents don't hit
him.
And it wasn't the response thatmattered, what my mom said.
(39:55):
But even at that age, I thinkall my life I have been striving
.
I know what I bring to thetable and value.
I know, as a black person, I amno different than anybody else.
I do not think differently, Ido not smell differently, I do
not act differently.
As a gay person, the same thing, I love the same, I bleed the
(40:20):
same, I yearn for the samethings, um, and I always knew
that I was just as human andeverybody else.
And I think my creation,creative process has been about
putting that somehow, um,putting that humanity, that
(40:46):
somehow, putting that humanity,my humanity, out on the page,
because if it's written down, ifit's seen on film, somehow that
proves in a way that I am real.
And I think the lesson that Ilearned this year, this year, is
like I don't have to proveanything to anybody anymore.
I've lived through so much andI've survived so much and I've
(41:10):
thrived through so much and I'vetaken advantage and been given
these opportunities that are,yes, luck.
But what is luck?
It's when, uh, when, or what isyou know?
It's like when, preparation,and you know when you're
prepared for something andopportunity me, like that's what
luck is.
(41:30):
I've been prepared and I'vebeen given the opportunity and I
worked really hard and I thinkfor me the whole idea of
creation has been about figuringout my own humanity, and
getting up in the morning hasbeen about me proving to the
(41:52):
world in some way or shape orfashion that I exist and I
deserve to exist and I'm justthe same.
Maybe that's a little bitcloser to what my driving force
is.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Barron, you just answered the question Well there
.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Thank you, my God, it took me just answered the
question.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
It's like, and I'm going to paraphrase just quite
frankly, you, just you, are real, that's it.
You show up in every situationas just real and you believe in
yourself.
You believe that you're equalto everybody else.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Yes, I have, and I, I , I do and and I am.
I for a kid that was alwaystold I was a liar.
I was the most honest kid inthis in the house and that and I
, I have spent my life being alightning rod.
I have been, and I was soexhausted from it for so long.
(42:58):
I'm tired of people either loveme or they hate me, but what
you will always get from me isauthenticity, because when I got
sober being an addict and beinga liar and scamming and
stealing I knew the one thingthe only way that I was going to
stay sober was if I was ashonest as I could possibly be
(43:22):
within every moment.
And the one thing that sobrietyhas given me and that I'm so
grateful for is I can walk intoany room right now, any room,
and own my space.
As a child, I could never.
As a child, I would, but thenit would be dimmed by somebody
(43:43):
else, and so that is one of mysuperpowers I can sit down with
you and be myself and be angryat whoever is knocking on my
door and won't leave me alone Tobeing joyful, to being sad.
Don't ask me how I am if you,you want.
Don't ask me what, how I am, ifyou don't want to know.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
You, you are describing a extreme sense of
self-acceptance.
Yeah, and when I know for afact that when we can truly
accept and embrace ourselves foreverything that we are the good
, the bad and the ugly then itopens up a whole universe of
(44:26):
acceptance from those around us.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
I've experienced that in my own life.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
I want to call out and acknowledge you.
You have been through animmense amount of really, really
hard shit and in spite of allthat, you are not just still
standing, you're thriving.
You, you, god.
(44:58):
The amount of resilience thatyou are demonstrating, just just
pure resilience.
Yeah, I'm stubborn as fuck.
You just keep getting up,doesn't matter what knocks you?
Down.
You just keep getting up and Ihave to believe.
You can correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
I'm speculating here that this is the power of
creativity oh, my god, it's likeI have a story to tell.
I mean, there's so many.
I remember being in, in, inacting school and the, the, the,
the teachers would the, theinstructors or professors would
say you know, go out and live alife, go get dumped, go get a
(45:40):
venereal disease, go.
You know, go out and live alife, go get dumped, go get a
venereal disease, go.
You know, lose somebody.
You know, go, do, live life.
Because that life is going,that your life, that those
experiences are going to feedyour characters, they're going
to feed your work, they're goingto give you something of depth
to tap into.
(46:01):
And by the time, I was hearingthat I'd already just survived
the freaking AIDS pandemic,right Like we'd gone to war.
We were at war with governmentsand systems and homophobic,
bigoted people and homophobicbigoted people.
So I was like, oh, like that is.
(46:24):
I think that that is also thething is that attracts people to
me is is like when I was doingmy show nigger fag, you know, I
had students that would come upto.
I still, I still get texts.
I get Instagram messages.
I got an Instagram message nottoo long ago from this person
(46:47):
who said to me because my niggerfag is about um, my experiences
growing up uh, black, gay, umbullied um and struggling as a
kid and it was a kid's show thatI performed for five years,
took it to Scotland.
It changed my life In Edmontonduring the pandemic I was
(47:12):
thinking, god, I wonder if itreally did touch anybody's heart
, right, you never know when youput something out there and,
sure enough, almost like youknow an answer from above, I get
an Instagram message that saidyou don't know me, but my name
is and I was in grade nine whenyou came to my school and I was
(47:37):
coming out of the closet and andI hated myself and I was
terrified.
And then I saw you perform andthen I saw how Nelly you were
and I thought, well, if you canbe this Nelly, then I could be
this Nelly.
And right after your play Icame out of the closet and I
(48:01):
started a gay straight alliancein my school and now I'm a DJ
and I thank you for what you'vedone.
And really, for me, it's aboutvulnerability.
Vulnerability attracts notvictimhood, but vulnerable
(48:22):
vulnerability, being completelyhonest, where I'm at in every
moment of every day is is mycurrency and it's also it's a
blessing there's the answer tothe question as well Bingo.
Speaker 2 (48:41):
That's what has attracted all those mentors.
That's what has attractedeverything.
Vulnerability is a polarizer.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
People either scream and run in the opposite
direction.
When we get really, really real, they scream and run because it
terrifies them, yeah, or theywant to come and sit right next
to us and there's not a lot ofin between.
It's a very polarizedvulnerability.
It really is kind of extreme,yeah, and it's very powerful.
(49:14):
I believe, personally, that itsends all of the people away
that I wouldn't want to be withanyway, yeah, and it attracts
the people that I most wouldwant to be close to.
It's magical.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
It is, it is and it you know it can.
It can sometimes make me feellike douching with acid
afterwards, you know, after Iopen my spirit up and kind of
blah it out in my art, in mywork.
I mean, right now I'm writingmy feature film is called the
(49:51):
Last Night of Hockey in Canadaand it's about it's
autobiographical and it's aboutone night during the in the 90s
when the Rangers were playingthe Vancouver Canucks and I was
summoned to the bedside of afriend and it's really all about
(50:14):
my behavior during that reallydifficult time.
And when I first wrote theshort story that was published
during COVID on it I was runningto the bathroom dry, heaving,
because I'd talked about thisstory before but I'd never gone
into the story and written it.
(50:36):
From that perspective and theamount of shame and remorse and
guilt I felt about my behaviorat that time was just so deep
and heavy.
And I think that is when you arean artist and it doesn't matter
how you do, what art you do,what your discipline is, when
(50:59):
you put what art you do, whatyour discipline is, when you put
people respond to thatvulnerability within the work.
And I'm I'm learning that rightnow, like people are reading
this, this piece, and going, ohmy God, this is like crazy, but
there, there's and it.
What it does is it alsoencourages other people to be as
brave with their things.
It's pretty magical.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
Erin, did that allow you to let go of all that shame?
Speaker 1 (51:26):
It has, it has.
I mean, I don't know if it'sjust because I've been looking
at the script for so long now.
I think when I first picked itup at the beginning of the year,
I was feeling that shame againand that heaviness of oh God, oh
my God.
I don't know if I have thearmor to go back into this,
because I wrote it in duringCOVID and then didn't go back
(51:46):
for a couple of years.
But yeah, it is what it is.
It's my story and it is what'smade me who I am.
It's a part of it, right?
Speaker 2 (51:55):
I think the vomiting that you described, running to
the bathroom, was symbolic ofletting go.
Speaker 3 (52:01):
Yeah, it was coming out of you, Literally.
I think it's a a touch pointback to what you said before
about how art has saved you.
This project has helped you tofully metabolize.
Speaker 1 (52:15):
Yeah, like there's another story.
There's something else thatI'll talk to you about, cause
we're close friends now.
Yeah, and like there's anotherstory, there's something else
that I'll talk to you about,because we're close friends now.
What this process with thispiece has done for me and
opening me up has allowed otherthings to drop.
(52:36):
And we were talking earlierabout the thing of inspiration,
the thought of the download ofsomething else that drops into
your head.
And I think, because I was soopen this summer, because I was
so vulnerable on the page withmy work, with, you know, my
(52:59):
mentor reading it, but nobodyelse, but I knew that I was like
my heart was.
I was really going there with,with, with the work that I've
been writing.
I was walking I go for a walkin high park, which is a couple
blocks away, every cause I'm,you know I got a spare tire
around my waist and I got towalk and I was listening to, I
(53:21):
know, a murder podcast, becausethat's just so relaxing.
And a download came in and thedownload was and it was a voice
that was louder than the soundin my ears, just booming,
all-encompassing, but not ascreaming voice, it was just a
(53:46):
sensible voice that said justface it, you were raped.
And I stopped on the path and Ilooked down at my feet and I
stopped on the path and I lookeddown at my feet and I just went
(54:14):
yeah, you were.
And this happened right after Igot sober and I blame myself
for it and how this ties intothe work.
It's, I think I was because Iwas.
I kind of split my innards opento get this, this AIDS hockey
story out, and was living inthat.
(54:36):
It allowed other things tostart to, realizations and
thoughts and things that I stillneed to look at and still need
to work on.
Art is amazing that way.
If I allow, if I don't fight orif I, the resistance is always
going to be there when I work.
But if I fight through theresistance and I just do the
(55:01):
work, but if I fight through theresistance and I just do the
work, the world opens up.
And I think that that's, youknow, after the suicide, I mean
after the suicide and then this.
It's just, it's not weird, it'snot a coincidence to me that
that thought of the rape came,came sort of dropping in at this
time when I could actually faceit.
Speaker 2 (55:26):
And my art my sorry.
Speaker 1 (55:28):
My art is the thing that opened it up.
Speaker 2 (55:31):
Timing is everything, and I mean it came about at a
time when you were ready andable to actually look at it.
We've kind of gone into alittle bit of overtime.
I want to cover one more topicand we'll have to kind of make
it a little bit brief.
How has community played a rolein all your creative life?
Speaker 1 (56:04):
creative life, oh all everything, inspiration, um,
courage, um.
The gay community, the dragqueens.
I wouldn't have survivedwithout them, without their
guidance and their, theirparentage and their.
You know the, the, the, thewriting community here in
Toronto, like I've I moved hereto be a part of this.
Things like, none of it wouldbe happening for me, like the
(56:44):
AIDS community, right, like,made me feel not alone anymore.
The recovery community is thesame thing.
I'm not alone when I'm a partof community.
When I put my art intocommunity, the community holds
me back, right, it's, it's a.
It's a.
It's a copacetic supportiverelationship.
(57:08):
So I, community is everything Ican't make.
I can't make art in a vacuum.
I can't do it alone, I have topeople.
Speaker 2 (57:16):
I love how you're wording all that and the fact
that you've so clearlydemonstrated that sometimes,
when we think about community,it's just a single community,
but it's not.
It's a variety of communities,and sometimes a community can
just be you and one other person, yeah, or you and three other
(57:38):
people, and then sometimes itcan be something with hundreds
or thousands of people.
Speaker 1 (58:03):
Yeah, isolation is a killer.
As an alcoholic, isolation forme is a killer.
I learned it last year.
It's a killer, and there'snothing like walking into a room
full of other alcoholics to go.
Oh my God, I'm not the worstperson in the room, because
she's far worse than I am, youknow.
I'm not the best person in theroom because he has nicer shoes
than I do.
Right, like it keeps you right.
Community keeps me right-sized.
Community keeps me engaged,right-sized and feeling like I
have a place and that's my job.
(58:25):
I can't.
None of the things that havehappened for me since I moved to
Toronto the only reason whythey've happened is because I
took the step to go out to thesethings to make myself seen and
heard, and when I wasn't doingthat, I found disillusionment, I
found victimhood and I foundisolation and loneliness.
Speaker 2 (58:52):
Man, you could not have summed it up better or more
clearly.
I mean, this is the theme ofeverything we're about at the
the Love of Creatives and youjust wow is all I got to say
Summed it up in the mosteloquent way.
Okay, it's time.
Thank you, that was amazing.
It's time to move into rapidfire questions.
Speaker 1 (59:15):
Oh no, I hate these Okay.
Speaker 2 (59:18):
You'll do great and sometimes they're kind of random
, but since I know you, these,okay, you'll.
You'll do great.
And you know, sometimes they'rekind of random, but since I
know you, these are specific.
I hold these just for you.
Question number one if youcould have a redo on one part of
your life, what would it be?
Speaker 1 (59:37):
My connection to my birth family Got it.
Speaker 2 (59:42):
Number two if given the choice to live your creative
life in solitude or in acreative community, which would
you choose and why?
And I think you may havealready just really, really gone
over that unless you havesomething else to say?
It's pretty much covered.
Yeah, community Number three.
(01:00:09):
On over that one.
Unless you have something elseto say, it's pretty much covered
.
Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
Yeah, number three, when you're extremely old and
about to take your last breathwhat will have been the most
important part of your life my,my art, my work.
If you want to get to know me,you watch a movie I've made or
see something I've acted in andread a short story.
You know, you know who I am.
Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
I haven't seen them recently, but there was a period
of time when your posts onFacebook popped right up onto my
feed.
They haven't right, Lisa.
Posts on Facebook popped rightup onto my feed.
They haven't right, Liza.
You're not posting or thealgorithm has changed, but you
would be standing in the doorwaywith some fabulous outfit on,
always in great shoes.
So the dude at the meetingcould not have had better shoes
(01:00:53):
than you, because I'm ashoe-like-ah, so I know the
shoes yeah.
You got it going on.
I got to say that.
Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
Thank you, you have the fashion thing going on.
It must be the algorithm,because I am still whenever I go
out.
I don't know.
It's just, they say that you'resupposed to do something on
Instagram, so I'm like, okay,I'll just throw something
together and go to a party.
Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
I'm curious how many followers do you have on
instagram?
Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
oh, not very many, like 1700, I think.
Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
Oh, that's, that's a few, I mean, it's not like
millions, but that's yeah, youknow I'd give anything if we had
1700 on ours, but ours ispretty new I have a girlfriend
on drag race.
Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
I have a girlfriend in drag race that went from, I
think, before she.
It came out in canada, canada'sdrag race.
She was at like 19, now she'sat like almost 30 000 people oh
my goodness, we just got you.
We just got to shave you bothup.
We got to put on an eyelash, alittle red lip, slap on some
(01:01:57):
heels and get you on drag race,and that'll you know.
I think we could probably bothpull that off if we really tried
, we got to get into drag.
Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
Baron, this has been absolutely amazing.
I, I mean, I knew some of yourstory, but wow, and and and I
just want to honor yourvulnerability because you got it
down.
It's a superpower for you,isn't it?
Thank you, yeah, it's asuperpower for me as well, and
there was a part there in a fewminutes ago where I really I
(01:02:35):
thought I was going to ballright in the middle of your
story.
It touched me so deeply.
Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
Thank you, thanks for listening.
I appreciate both of you.
It's nice to meet you.
Speaker 2 (01:02:45):
I can't wait to make this public publish it, because
I just think it's like wow, wow,wow.
Speaker 3 (01:02:51):
Before we wrap is there anything, baron, that you
would like to leave ourlisteners with?
Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
Words of wisdom.
Speaker 1 (01:03:01):
Just say yes, say yes , yes, say yes to it and allow
the ideas to come in and allowthe downloads to happen, and as
best as you can, because youalways have the option of saying
no after you say yes.
So just say yes beautiful.
Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
I agree, wholeheartedly love it.
room full of other alcoholics to go.
Oh, my god, I'm not the worstperson in the room because she's
far worse than I am, you know.
You know I'm not the bestperson in the room, because you
know I'm not the best person inthe room because he has nicer
shoes than I do.
Right, like it keeps you right.
Community keeps me right-sized.
(00:31):
Community keeps me engaged,right-sized and feeling like I
have a place and that's my job.
I can't.
None of the things that havehappened for me since I moved to
Toronto the only reason whythey've happened is because I
took the step to go out to thesethings to make myself seen and
(00:55):
heard, and when I wasn't doingthat, I found disillusionment, I
found victimhood and I foundisolation and loneliness.
Victimhood and I foundisolation and loneliness.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Wow, man, you could not have summed it up better or
more clearly.
I mean, this is the theme ofeverything we're about at For
the Love of Creatives and youjust wow.
Hello and welcome to For theLove of Creatives podcast.
(01:35):
I'm Maddox.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
And I'm Dwight.
We're the.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Connections and Community Guys, and today we are
joined by our featured guest,barron McKenzie.
Hello, welcome, barron.
So glad to see you.
Just so the audience knows, Iknow Barron because he was a
guest on my previous podcast alittle over two years ago, so
it's a reunion.
We haven't seen each othersince then.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
I know, and it's so good to see you Feels like a
whole lifetime.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
We've had a lifetime.
Since we've seen each other,lots have changed.
Yes, well, I'm going to turn itover to you and let you tell
the audience a little bit aboutyourself.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Well, all right then, my name is Barry McKenzie.
I am an actor, writer, producerliving in Toronto, canada, and
yeah, I'm a playwright.
I write short stories, artistsanything artistic I love to sink
my hands into.
And, yeah, I'm really happy tobe here.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Good to have you.
Yeah, glad you've joined us.
Could you tell us a little bitabout how you got started on the
creative path?
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Sure, I've been a creative.
I was a creative kid, like youknow.
I think my first skill waslearning how to lie.
You know, I wasn't always thebest actor when it came to lying
.
I always got those big, wideeyes and turned kind of pale and
(03:12):
my family could always tellwhen I was lying.
But it sure gave me a goal towork towards to see if I could
get away with the lie.
But I've always been creative.
I've always been.
I've always been creative.
I've always been drawn toanything I I movies, tv shows.
(03:35):
Uh, my first love was listeningand I was just thinking about
this the other day, listening toum, the grim, all those really
dark fairy tales, like I was.
I was so young and I was atoddler and we had these and I
just remember the, the mood ofthem and the way, the
(03:59):
vocalization of these storiesand the darkness of them and the
light of them.
And I think even at that pointin my life I was sort of
synapsing off of those twothings, the dark and the light
and it just followed.
I just followed through.
(04:20):
I kind of stumbled into things.
I'm a stumbler into life.
I don't realize I can dosomething or I'm attracted to
something, unless I stumble intoit, and then it becomes a
passion, and so, yeah, I've beencreating pretty much all my
life.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
That's wonderful.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
I'm curious so, as this began to show up in your
life.
Wonderful, I'm curious, so, asthis began to show up in your
life, what kind of messages didyou get from those around you?
You know the, the people, thattheir words have great influence
on us.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Um, with my family.
I I sucked at school Like I wasterrible, I had ADHD, dyslexic,
and I had a learning disability.
So I think my parents, myadoptive parents I was adopted
(05:18):
at the age of one grew up in awhite family.
We grew up all over northernAlberta, which is, uh, very
conservative.
Not no people of color, blackand indigenous, but other than
that, um, and so I think myfamily, my parents, were just
glad that I found something thatI was half decent at, like I,
(05:42):
at one point I could really singand I didn't know I could sing.
It was grade four or five and ateacher came up.
His name was Mr Gilchrist andwe had just moved to this very
small town and and life for meat home was not very good.
And in my first class we had achoral, a choir class, and he
(06:07):
came and stood beside each of usand he spent a lot of time
beside me and when the class wasover he called me to the side
and said oh, my God, I'm introuble.
It's like barely two hours intoschool, my, you know my, my
fifth year and I'm I'm alreadyin trouble.
It's like, barely two hoursinto school, my, you know my, my
fifth year and I'm I'm alreadyin trouble.
And he said you have a reallygood voice, would you like to
(06:30):
join the choir?
And I was like sure, but upuntil that point, like I like to
sing.
But I didn't know I could singand that then turned into being
featured in these schoolassemblies where you know Joseph
.
I played Joseph in Joseph andthe Amazing Technicolor
(06:52):
Dreamcoat and got Noah and hisfloating zoo and all these sort
of.
I was always featured in thesethings and it really at that age
, at that time in my life, meantso much because I come from a
childhood where abuse is a partof my story and school and choir
(07:13):
was a real escape for me and ina world and a time when I
didn't feel special, this oneteacher really did allow me to
discover that I had something tooffer the world besides, uh,
(07:34):
problems and lying and stealingand acting out and and abuse and
and and being beat up by myfather.
So you know it was.
That's where it started.
I've had, I'd had, and eversince then I've had mentors all
my life.
None of my work, none of my,none of what I've done in my
(07:54):
life would be possible withoutthe um, the beautiful help in
hand I've gotten from people whoknow way more about what I'm
trying to achieve than I do.
So I've really, since that time, I've kept my eye out for the
(08:14):
people that are my champions andI hold on to them like life
rafts.
I think that that's part of myjob is to find the people who I
know are my champions and whobelieve in what I do, aren't
jealous of what I do or bring tothe table, and only are there
(08:36):
to inspire me and to support me.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
And does this show up as collaborations or true
mentorships?
Speaker 1 (08:56):
And does this show up as collaborations or true
mentorships?
This I was so screwed up cominginto college I was 19.
It was the.
I'd lived through the.
I came out when I was.
I ran away from home when I was15.
I lived on the streets ofEdmonton as a queer gender.
(09:18):
I thought I was very confusedabout my gender, found a
community of drag queens at thisbar in Edmonton, alberta, and
became a drag queen and learnedhow to perform with them.
So they were kind of my initialmentors.
You know, don't steal, show up,rehearse, you know all those
(09:43):
like street smart things thatdrag queens are really good at
teaching you and how to do mymakeup, take pride in my work,
all that stuff.
And then the AIDS pandemic hitand suddenly at a very young age
I was going to three or fourfunerals a month and drinking
(10:05):
alcoholically and really lost inmy life.
And I was at about an age of19,.
A friend of mine could see thatmy alcoholism was getting worse
and told me if you don't,you're just going to be a
drunken loser all your life.
And I was like, yeah, well,fuck you.
(10:26):
And so I showed up, hung overto this audition for a musical
theater program and how I madeit through that audition I have
no idea.
Like I was literally in betweenthe dance and ballet, which I
can't do either, and ballet,which I can't do either.
But during those audition timesI was sleeping in a on a on a
(10:55):
mat underneath a stairwell, justtrying to get some energy up
for the next phase.
But I fluked into this, intothis, I stumbled into this
program and that's where I metTim Ryan and a lot of the other
professors.
What I got, especially in theearly 80s, you had to fit into a
category right Well, in Albertaand Edmonton at that point I
(11:16):
was the only Black kid in thatprogram and they didn't know
what to do with me because I hada high voice.
I wasn't like gangster black, Iwas more I don't know Bob, the
Drag Queen black.
You know, I was more Faye thanHood and I literally was told by
(11:40):
the main acting professor thatthere was no space for me in
this career at all.
And Tim was the one thatchampioned me and said no,
absolutely, there is space.
And that really gave me courageand gave me the inspiration to
work harder and to.
(12:06):
At that time in my life I likedbeing underestimated, because
that gave me the drive to proveyou wrong.
Now I've changed that.
I've changed that idea of beingunderestimated.
Now I demand when I meet people.
Now I don't underestimate you.
If you tell me you can dosomething, I believe you and I
expect the same thing back.
(12:26):
And I think that that's one ofthe things that Timothy taught
me was you know, you have tohave respect for yourself and
you have to demand to be seenand heard and you have to work
hard.
And so he was my first, andthen it just went from there to
a bunch of mentors andeverything else.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
So those are amazing life lessons, are they not what?
An amazing gift.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Amazing, amazing, especially at that time, because
you know there were no angelsin America.
There was all that stuff.
But even then those plays didnot have people like me in them,
unless somebody like Timthought outside like I hate the
fact that he would have to thinkoutside of the box to put me
into a show, but that's that'swhat I got all the time.
(13:13):
And then, at the age of 21, Iwas diagnosed HIV positive and
that's when sort of I justthought I was going to die.
And so I lived my life for manyyears addicted and very sick
and almost died, until I gotsober in 20.
(13:35):
Oh, it's been 22 years, 20.
It'll be 23 years this yearthat I got sober Congratulations
.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
That is an enormous accomplishment.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Bravo.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Thank you.
I appreciate it.
But once that happened, becauseof those years of darkness
where I wasn't taking part inlife and not taking part in art
and not seeking mentorship, I'dlost contact with everybody that
supported me because I was justtoo awful to be around.
(14:14):
I really, once I got sober, Ithought, if I could do good
stuff when I was high and drunk,what could I do sober?
So once again, I startedlooking for those mentors and
those people that believed in me, and those came in the form of
agents who saw something in me,casting agents who saw something
(14:35):
in me and cast me in my firstcouple of films and I really did
dive into the acting film andTV acting.
I worked with Halle Berry andCatwoman.
I worked with Angelina Jolie inmy very first film was with
Angel Angelina Jolie right aftershe, uh, won the Oscar.
Um, both terrible movies, but Iwas in them.
(14:57):
So, hey, I got paid, um, and itreally was a process of me
looking for those people thatbelieved in my talent, believed
in what I brought to the tableand who I could also enhance
their lives.
Right Like, it's not just aboutme taking, it's really about me
(15:17):
also bringing value and valueto what you do, bringing value
and value to what you do, andthat was a lesson that I had to
learn that it's not just abouttaking, taking, taking, it's
about giving back, and I thinkthat's what you guys do with
your, with your podcast, whichis really exciting.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Well, thank you, we're honored for that
recognition.
I am curious about how youmentioned that you have been
inspired by your mentors.
Yeah, you've had those peoplewho've encouraged you.
Have you had the opportunity tobe a mentor for others, and
(16:00):
what's that been like?
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Yeah, I have.
I mean, I just learned, I justtreated other people the way I
was treated and it's been superrewarding.
It's been as an alcoholic Idon't know if anybody has
alcoholics in their lives, butwe tend to be very selfish and
(16:23):
I'm an actor, so it's about meall the time, even and and
sometimes my way of getting toconnect with you is by delving
into my own story in order, andthat can sometimes seem
self-serving and sort of makingit about me when it's not.
So being a mentor has reallyallowed me to give of myself
(16:49):
without expectation of gettinganything back and no ownership.
I've had mentors that came inas mentors and left as dangerous
, because what I found is thatthey wanted to own my work.
They wanted to own what I do.
They wanted to take credit forthe things that I'd done and I
would never say that I, none ofmy work and none of the plays or
(17:17):
anything that I've done wasever done on my own steam alone.
But for them to take credit formy work, that was a bridge too
far.
So for me as a mentor, I won'treally get into mentorship with
somebody if I feel that there'sany sort of competition with
them, If I feel a little bit oflike, oh, jealousy, like, oh, I
(17:37):
wish I had what they had, andthat doesn't happen often.
So I've really been able towork with some really exciting
new filmmakers and writers andyou're just there to listen,
like there, to support, there,to be encouraging, giving notes
(18:00):
to writers.
A lot of people don't know howto do that.
A lot of people are dreamkillers, especially in the film
industry, which I've learned wewere talking earlier.
One of my favorite sayings issay yes before I say no.
And what I've learned througheven just giving notes to
(18:21):
mentees, that my job is not totell you no, this can't be done,
or no, that's not a good idea,or no.
Why would you even think that?
My job, I feel, is to say yesto everything that you're doing,
but also giving my own honestyabout where I think you could
(18:44):
maybe push the story into a newdirection or do this with it or
take it.
Maybe this character might beable to do this.
So it's about it's about nuance.
Mentorship for me is aboutnuance.
How I speak to the menteereally can be the difference
between failure and and successfor them, and I don't want to be
(19:06):
in the failure category ever.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Beautiful.
I love that.
Maren, you have been blessed tohave, throughout your life,
guardian angels have shown up,these people that have believed
in you and mentored you, andeven though there was a few in
there that tried to takeadvantage of you, you've still
(19:29):
been really, really blessed withall that has shown up.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
What did you?
What do you believe that youdid or that you were that
attracted those people to you?
Because you know we live, I'm afirm believer in the law of
attraction.
Nothing's coincidental.
You showed up in life in amanner that drew those people to
(20:00):
you.
Can you identify what that was?
Speaker 1 (20:10):
you.
Can you identify what that was?
Well, I think it has to do withuh, for me it had to do with
the skill set that I brought,like when I met that, that, that
that teacher in grade five,about the singing.
I had the tool.
I was raw and didn't know howto use it.
His job was to teach me.
But once I think I brought, Ibring passion.
I bring, I bring a sort ofstill, even at the age of 56.
(20:34):
I bring like a childlikenaivete to things.
I bring a curiosity.
I ask a stupid amount ofquestions.
I take risks with my work as awriter.
(20:57):
I knew right away that I had avery distinctive voice.
I'm teachable, distinctivevoice, I'm teachable.
I'm accountable.
I show up for deadlines.
I push through when it's really, really difficult.
(21:17):
Those are all things that Ijust got from life.
I think I had to do that in mylife.
I had to push myself to show upeven when I didn't want to.
So I think a lot of thesementors that I have gotten, we
see in each other what we see inourselves, or vice versa.
Um, I see what I see in you, Isee in me, and I think they just
(21:38):
saw that I had that, that driveto to move forward can we go a
little deeper?
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Mm-hmm, I think you're right onto something
there.
You know, we've all knownpeople that showed up with the
talent and the skill andaccountability and the drive and
all those things that youmentioned and still didn't get
any breaks Right?
I think that you're teeteringright on the edge of it.
(22:07):
I think that you're teeteringright on the edge of it.
Maybe it was.
You know, you said people showup and reflect back to what was
it that you must have been, theway you were showing up, that
you were reflecting to them.
You know, it's something insidehere.
(22:28):
It's not what you were doing,it's.
I just have to believe it wassomething inside that drew all
of those people to you.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
I mean, it's a really good question and it's funny
that that, like I have beenworking with two amazing mentors
I've discovered through somewriting programs since I moved
to Toronto, specifically lastyear.
I found a really amazing filmmentor and on the other hand, I
(23:00):
found an amazing TV writingmentor and the other day I was
like one of them.
His name is Anthony Q Farrell.
He wrote on the Office, he's anaward-winning showrunner, he's
the TV guy and he is just one ofthe most amazingly supportive,
(23:23):
beautiful, encouraging humansthat you could ever have in your
life and, for whatever reason,he has chosen to really take me
under his wing.
Same with Mitch LeBlanc he isone of Canada's up and coming
film writers Smart, dedicated,funny, all those things and he
(23:50):
too is somebody that I met thislast year and has taken me under
his wing.
And just the other day I wasthinking like how did I get so
blessed?
What did I do to deserve and toattract these people into my
life?
And to not answer your question.
(24:14):
I don't know.
I really don't know what thatis.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I think I know, as you continue to talk, it is
becoming kind of it's cominginto focus Everything that
you're saying.
It's coming into focusEverything that you're saying
and then, built in with my ownintuition, which is really
(24:41):
strong, I get that it's becauseyou hold a certain belief system
.
What is that belief system?
You hold a certain beliefsystem that makes this all
possible Not just possible, butprobable.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
You've attracted these people to you, but you've
done it with a belief system.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Oh my God, these are questions that I get asked and
then I need to like spend a yearcontemplating, oh and I think
that's valid for me.
I think that's valid.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
That's definitely something that taps far beneath
the surface yeah, and I I thinkit's a really great question.
I think my belief system, uh,the core of it is you know what?
(25:33):
I really do not know what I sitdown.
I think, for me, it's aboutI've never enjoyed life.
I think, for me, it's aboutI've never enjoyed life.
I've never been somebody thatwoke up in the morning and went
(25:55):
oh my goodness, I can't wait tosee what tomorrow brings or
today brings.
I've never been that person andI think what has pushed me
forward is almost thatdetermination to find the joy of
(26:20):
life before my life is over, tofind that morning where I wake
up and go.
I can't wait to see what todaybrings.
Morning where I wake up and go.
I can't wait to see what todaybrings.
Last year, in 2022, was probablythe hardest year I ever had,
(26:45):
because I'd moved across thecountry.
I'd lost my partner of 28 yearsin 2019.
And that's when Maddox and Ifirst met.
I had just moved to Edmonton, Iwas broken.
The grief was so heavy and deepthat I just needed a shift and
change, moved across the countrywhen I started writing film and
television and wanting to takethis risk while I could, with my
(27:08):
age, with the money that I had.
But and it landed here inToronto thinking that everything
would just be laid at my feetand I, I spent like a year of
no's.
Every door I tried to open wasa no, every single thing that I
(27:29):
attempted and tried to pushthrough was a no.
And this time last year, atChristmas time, on Christmas day
, I wrote out a suicide note and, and you know, I, I sought help
(27:50):
, I got help and I think, like Iwant to learn how to, I really
would love to learn how to lovelife and I think that's what
keeps me going, and I thinkthat's what keeps me going, and
(28:14):
oftentimes I need people to seewhat I bring to the table before
I see it in myself.
And sort of as soon as I gothelp with the suicide stuff, the
ideation and the planning lastyear, all of a sudden this last
year just blew up for me Likeall these opportunities, all
these mentorship opportunities,these money-making doors and
(28:37):
gates open, these connectionswith people in the industry that
I could only have dreamed of.
So, to be completely honest,with that very sort of deep
question, I don't know what mydriving force is.
All I know is that art hassaved my life on every level, at
(29:00):
every time, in every wayimaginable, art has been the
thing that has saved me frommyself.
It's saved me from others.
It's saved me from the world,specifically now with what's
happening in the United Statesand in Canada as well the rise
(29:21):
of the right and the transphobia, and the hatred and the fear.
The day after the election and Iwas I spent three weeks just.
I had so much hope and I hadn'tallowed myself to have hope
about an election for many, manyyears.
And the dread and the anxietyand the sadness and the fear
(29:44):
that overtook me at the night ofthe election when I saw where
it was going, the completedevastation and the disbelief
that people could be this stupid.
I woke up that next morning andthe only thing I knew to do was
(30:06):
to sit down at my computer,open up my script that I've been
working on that's about AIDSand hockey and addiction and
dive headfirst into that.
And by, I think, I opened thatdocument at eight o'clock in the
morning.
By seven o'clock at night, Iate dinner Like it, literally.
(30:30):
And I knew then that the onlything that's going to save me
right now save my mental health,save my spirit, which is just
starting to sort of heal fromthe suicide.
Stuff is my art, is my art.
That's the driving force.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
You know, barron, I just have to say this is so
unbelievably rich because I knowbeyond a shadow of a doubt that
(31:14):
there are going to be so manypeople when they listen to this
that can identify so completely,people who are either in it
right now or have gone throughit or are on their way into it.
You know, you had a whole yearwhere nothing, no breakthroughs,
a whole year after you movedwhere you just couldn't win for
losing, and then all of a suddensomething shifted and the next
year has just been like, wow,right, am I understanding
(31:36):
correctly?
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Something shifted inside of you.
Yeah, that's the only way thatcan happen.
Something shifted inside of youand I kind of keep kind of
tipping back to it because thisis so powerful If you can
identify what shifted in you,others will hear this and be
able to identify what needs toshift in them, even your mentees
(32:00):
that you work with.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
This is so rich no-transcript or sorry, there's
(32:40):
somebody at my door.
Sorry that's okay.
Sorry, god sorry, I haven't hadanybody show up at my door.
That means a gentleman caller,nothing.
(33:01):
He's been trying to get in mydoor for the last 15 minutes.
Anyways, sorry, there wassomething about that moment and
that time that I um.
I think what happened when Ifinally came out of the fog is
(33:25):
that I realized that there wasmore to live for, and I don't
know if that's answering yourquestion, dude, I really don't.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
You're doing great.
Just keep going.
You're doing great.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
So this is the thing for me.
This is the thing for me.
I don't spend a lot of timeanalyzing why and I notice that
about myself even in thesequestions.
When I apply for theseapplicants would apply in
writing for writing rooms or toget into these mentorships or to
do these things Um, I the.
(34:02):
The questions always come uplike what is your, your process,
your process?
I don't know.
I wake up, you know I have atea, I doom scroll, I play Candy
Crush, and then at 10 o'clock Isit down at my computer and I
write for six hours and then Imake dinner and then I go to bed
, and so I don't spend a lot oftime of asking why, because why
(34:29):
for me has never been important.
For me, it's always been thefact that it is.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
That's beautiful, and it strikes me that sometimes
you're asked why in thoseapplications?
Because they want to know,they're trying to figure it out
too.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
They're trying to figure it out too they're trying
to figure it out, hell yes andso I like, I appreciate the the
question, but I mean the factthat I was thinking about why am
I like?
I don't ask a question like whyare these people attracted to
me?
To figure it out.
For me it's, it's, it's, it's agratitude piece, it's that
(35:16):
humility piece that when youspeak about being humble, you're
not humble, you're talkingabout it but you're not really
humble.
But that's when the truehumility of me comes out, is
when I'm sitting there in mywalks in the neighborhood or
whatever, and I'm going why, whyare these people so interested
(35:38):
in my life?
Or why do these people want togive so freely of themselves to
me and my work?
So it is a great question.
I just don't know that I havethe answer, and maybe, if we
meet up in the next six months,I'll be able to, you know, give
you a little more than what Ihave, because it ain't coming.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
Well, that's OK.
Shared a great deal that a lotof people will be able to relate
to.
When it comes to looking at theincredible successes that you
have, in some cases, stumbledinto the bright lights, the
large and small you know, justhaving that assurance that you
(36:26):
you had a talent when you were achild that someone had, they
appreciated it enough to turnyou onto it and to help you to
grow and nurture that talent.
And then you contrast that withall of the things that you have
(36:48):
had to endure, that others haveas well.
But we don't take a chance tolook at the totality of all of
the things that we carry theabuse from the time that you
were a small child, having togrieve the loss of someone that
you had loved for so long andhad been such a part of your
(37:13):
life, and having to figure outhow to find your way on the
street, and you know, as youshared, what it was to leave
home at 15, I was thinking aboutsome similarities in my own
story and the pandemic we allwent through that.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
And I say that there's a lens that we can look
at some of these things, some ofthese great losses, through,
where, if we're lucky, we get achance to earn those scars,
because it means that we'velived long enough to have
experienced what it is to loveand to have that loss.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Yeah, and I mean as you're speaking.
As you're speaking, I, as achild, I was given up by my
white mother, who was estrangedfrom just it was an underage
white mother in the middle ofAlberta in 1968.
(38:25):
I was given up by her, so I wasabandoned by her.
Father wasn't in the picture.
Then I was adopted into thiswhite family who my parents, as
well-intentioned as they thoughtthey were, were used their
white supremacy within thefamily to keep the three brown
(38:48):
kids that they adopted orfostered as the target and the
problem and if it wasn't for youand then use their you use
their white privilege to sort ofput a mask of a veil of
perfection around us so nobodywould ever ask any questions At
(39:11):
that time in my life.
Um, when I was, I remember oneday I was sitting in the
backseat of the car and I don'tknow how old.
I was very young and I had justbeen beaten up by my dad and I
(39:31):
at that stage, when I was young,like I was four or five, five
or six something I said to mymom, who was in the passenger
seat.
I said Ivor, my best friend atthe time, his parents don't hit
him.
And it wasn't the response thatmattered, what my mom said.
(39:55):
But even at that age, I thinkall my life I have been striving
.
I know what I bring to thetable and value.
I know, as a black person, I amno different than anybody else.
I do not think differently, Ido not smell differently, I do
not act differently.
As a gay person, the same thing, I love the same, I bleed the
(40:20):
same, I yearn for the samethings, um, and I always knew
that I was just as human andeverybody else.
And I think my creation,creative process has been about
putting that somehow, um,putting that humanity, that
(40:46):
somehow, putting that humanity,my humanity, out on the page,
because if it's written down, ifit's seen on film, somehow that
proves in a way that I am real.
And I think the lesson that Ilearned this year, this year, is
like I don't have to proveanything to anybody anymore.
I've lived through so much andI've survived so much and I've
(41:10):
thrived through so much and I'vetaken advantage and been given
these opportunities that are,yes, luck.
But what is luck?
It's when, uh, when, or what isyou know?
It's like when, preparation,and you know when you're
prepared for something andopportunity me, like that's what
luck is.
(41:30):
I've been prepared and I'vebeen given the opportunity and I
worked really hard and I thinkfor me the whole idea of
creation has been about figuringout my own humanity, and
getting up in the morning hasbeen about me proving to the
(41:52):
world in some way or shape orfashion that I exist and I
deserve to exist and I'm justthe same.
Maybe that's a little bitcloser to what my driving force
is.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Barron, you just answered the question Well there
.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Thank you, my God, it took me just answered the
question.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
It's like, and I'm going to paraphrase just quite
frankly, you, just you, are real, that's it.
You show up in every situationas just real and you believe in
yourself.
You believe that you're equalto everybody else.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Yes, I have, and I, I , I do and and I am.
I for a kid that was alwaystold I was a liar.
I was the most honest kid inthis in the house and that and I
, I have spent my life being alightning rod.
I have been, and I was soexhausted from it for so long.
(42:58):
I'm tired of people either loveme or they hate me, but what
you will always get from me isauthenticity, because when I got
sober being an addict and beinga liar and scamming and
stealing I knew the one thingthe only way that I was going to
stay sober was if I was ashonest as I could possibly be
(43:22):
within every moment.
And the one thing that sobrietyhas given me and that I'm so
grateful for is I can walk intoany room right now, any room,
and own my space.
As a child, I could never.
As a child, I would, but thenit would be dimmed by somebody
(43:43):
else, and so that is one of mysuperpowers I can sit down with
you and be myself and be angryat whoever is knocking on my
door and won't leave me alone Tobeing joyful, to being sad.
Don't ask me how I am if you,you want.
Don't ask me what, how I am, ifyou don't want to know.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
You, you are describing a extreme sense of
self-acceptance.
Yeah, and when I know for afact that when we can truly
accept and embrace ourselves foreverything that we are the good
, the bad and the ugly then itopens up a whole universe of
(44:26):
acceptance from those around us.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
I've experienced that in my own life.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
I want to call out and acknowledge you.
You have been through animmense amount of really, really
hard shit and in spite of allthat, you are not just still
standing, you're thriving.
You, you, god.
(44:58):
The amount of resilience thatyou are demonstrating, just just
pure resilience.
Yeah, I'm stubborn as fuck.
You just keep getting up,doesn't matter what knocks you?
Down.
You just keep getting up and Ihave to believe.
You can correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
I'm speculating here that this is the power of
creativity oh, my god, it's likeI have a story to tell.
I mean, there's so many.
I remember being in, in, inacting school and the, the, the,
the teachers would the, theinstructors or professors would
say you know, go out and live alife, go get dumped, go get a
(45:40):
venereal disease, go.
You know, go out and live alife, go get dumped, go get a
venereal disease, go.
You know, lose somebody.
You know, go, do, live life.
Because that life is going,that your life, that those
experiences are going to feedyour characters, they're going
to feed your work, they're goingto give you something of depth
to tap into.
(46:01):
And by the time, I was hearingthat I'd already just survived
the freaking AIDS pandemic,right Like we'd gone to war.
We were at war with governmentsand systems and homophobic,
bigoted people and homophobicbigoted people.
So I was like, oh, like that is.
(46:24):
I think that that is also thething is that attracts people to
me is is like when I was doingmy show nigger fag, you know, I
had students that would come upto.
I still, I still get texts.
I get Instagram messages.
I got an Instagram message nottoo long ago from this person
(46:47):
who said to me because my niggerfag is about um, my experiences
growing up uh, black, gay, umbullied um and struggling as a
kid and it was a kid's show thatI performed for five years,
took it to Scotland.
It changed my life In Edmontonduring the pandemic I was
(47:12):
thinking, god, I wonder if itreally did touch anybody's heart
, right, you never know when youput something out there and,
sure enough, almost like youknow an answer from above, I get
an Instagram message that saidyou don't know me, but my name
is and I was in grade nine whenyou came to my school and I was
(47:37):
coming out of the closet and andI hated myself and I was
terrified.
And then I saw you perform andthen I saw how Nelly you were
and I thought, well, if you canbe this Nelly, then I could be
this Nelly.
And right after your play Icame out of the closet and I
(48:01):
started a gay straight alliancein my school and now I'm a DJ
and I thank you for what you'vedone.
And really, for me, it's aboutvulnerability.
Vulnerability attracts notvictimhood, but vulnerable
(48:22):
vulnerability, being completelyhonest, where I'm at in every
moment of every day is is mycurrency and it's also it's a
blessing there's the answer tothe question as well Bingo.
Speaker 2 (48:41):
That's what has attracted all those mentors.
That's what has attractedeverything.
Vulnerability is a polarizer.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
People either scream and run in the opposite
direction.
When we get really, really real, they scream and run because it
terrifies them, yeah, or theywant to come and sit right next
to us and there's not a lot ofin between.
It's a very polarizedvulnerability.
It really is kind of extreme,yeah, and it's very powerful.
(49:14):
I believe, personally, that itsends all of the people away
that I wouldn't want to be withanyway, yeah, and it attracts
the people that I most wouldwant to be close to.
It's magical.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
It is, it is and it you know it can.
It can sometimes make me feellike douching with acid
afterwards, you know, after Iopen my spirit up and kind of
blah it out in my art, in mywork.
I mean, right now I'm writingmy feature film is called the
(49:51):
Last Night of Hockey in Canadaand it's about it's
autobiographical and it's aboutone night during the in the 90s
when the Rangers were playingthe Vancouver Canucks and I was
summoned to the bedside of afriend and it's really all about
(50:14):
my behavior during that reallydifficult time.
And when I first wrote theshort story that was published
during COVID on it I was runningto the bathroom dry, heaving,
because I'd talked about thisstory before but I'd never gone
into the story and written it.
(50:36):
From that perspective and theamount of shame and remorse and
guilt I felt about my behaviorat that time was just so deep
and heavy.
And I think that is when you arean artist and it doesn't matter
how you do, what art you do,what your discipline is, when
(50:59):
you put what art you do, whatyour discipline is, when you put
people respond to thatvulnerability within the work.
And I'm I'm learning that rightnow, like people are reading
this, this piece, and going, ohmy God, this is like crazy, but
there, there's and it.
What it does is it alsoencourages other people to be as
brave with their things.
It's pretty magical.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
Erin, did that allow you to let go of all that shame?
Speaker 1 (51:26):
It has, it has.
I mean, I don't know if it'sjust because I've been looking
at the script for so long now.
I think when I first picked itup at the beginning of the year,
I was feeling that shame againand that heaviness of oh God, oh
my God.
I don't know if I have thearmor to go back into this,
because I wrote it in duringCOVID and then didn't go back
(51:46):
for a couple of years.
But yeah, it is what it is.
It's my story and it is what'smade me who I am.
It's a part of it, right?
Speaker 2 (51:55):
I think the vomiting that you described, running to
the bathroom, was symbolic ofletting go.
Speaker 3 (52:01):
Yeah, it was coming out of you, Literally.
I think it's a a touch pointback to what you said before
about how art has saved you.
This project has helped you tofully metabolize.
Speaker 1 (52:15):
Yeah, like there's another story.
There's something else thatI'll talk to you about, cause
we're close friends now.
Yeah, and like there's anotherstory, there's something else
that I'll talk to you about,because we're close friends now.
What this process with thispiece has done for me and
opening me up has allowed otherthings to drop.
(52:36):
And we were talking earlierabout the thing of inspiration,
the thought of the download ofsomething else that drops into
your head.
And I think, because I was soopen this summer, because I was
so vulnerable on the page withmy work, with, you know, my
(52:59):
mentor reading it, but nobodyelse, but I knew that I was like
my heart was.
I was really going there with,with, with the work that I've
been writing.
I was walking I go for a walkin high park, which is a couple
blocks away, every cause I'm,you know I got a spare tire
around my waist and I got towalk and I was listening to, I
(53:21):
know, a murder podcast, becausethat's just so relaxing.
And a download came in and thedownload was and it was a voice
that was louder than the soundin my ears, just booming,
all-encompassing, but not ascreaming voice, it was just a
(53:46):
sensible voice that said justface it, you were raped.
And I stopped on the path and Ilooked down at my feet and I
stopped on the path and I lookeddown at my feet and I just went
(54:14):
yeah, you were.
And this happened right after Igot sober and I blame myself
for it and how this ties intothe work.
It's, I think I was because Iwas.
I kind of split my innards opento get this, this AIDS hockey
story out, and was living inthat.
(54:36):
It allowed other things tostart to, realizations and
thoughts and things that I stillneed to look at and still need
to work on.
Art is amazing that way.
If I allow, if I don't fight orif I, the resistance is always
going to be there when I work.
But if I fight through theresistance and I just do the
(55:01):
work, but if I fight through theresistance and I just do the
work, the world opens up.
And I think that that's, youknow, after the suicide, I mean
after the suicide and then this.
It's just, it's not weird, it'snot a coincidence to me that
that thought of the rape came,came sort of dropping in at this
time when I could actually faceit.
Speaker 2 (55:26):
And my art my sorry.
Speaker 1 (55:28):
My art is the thing that opened it up.
Speaker 2 (55:31):
Timing is everything, and I mean it came about at a
time when you were ready andable to actually look at it.
We've kind of gone into alittle bit of overtime.
I want to cover one more topicand we'll have to kind of make
it a little bit brief.
How has community played a rolein all your creative life?
Speaker 1 (56:04):
creative life, oh all everything, inspiration, um,
courage, um.
The gay community, the dragqueens.
I wouldn't have survivedwithout them, without their
guidance and their, theirparentage and their.
You know the, the, the, thewriting community here in
Toronto, like I've I moved hereto be a part of this.
Things like, none of it wouldbe happening for me, like the
(56:44):
AIDS community, right, like,made me feel not alone anymore.
The recovery community is thesame thing.
I'm not alone when I'm a partof community.
When I put my art intocommunity, the community holds
me back, right, it's, it's a.
It's a.
It's a copacetic supportiverelationship.
(57:08):
So I, community is everything Ican't make.
I can't make art in a vacuum.
I can't do it alone, I have topeople.
Speaker 2 (57:16):
I love how you're wording all that and the fact
that you've so clearlydemonstrated that sometimes,
when we think about community,it's just a single community,
but it's not.
It's a variety of communities,and sometimes a community can
just be you and one other person, yeah, or you and three other
(57:38):
people, and then sometimes itcan be something with hundreds
or thousands of people.
Speaker 1 (58:03):
Yeah, isolation is a killer.
As an alcoholic, isolation forme is a killer.
I learned it last year.
It's a killer, and there'snothing like walking into a room
full of other alcoholics to go.
Oh my God, I'm not the worstperson in the room, because
she's far worse than I am, youknow.
I'm not the best person in theroom because he has nicer shoes
than I do.
Right, like it keeps you right.
Community keeps me right-sized.
Community keeps me engaged,right-sized and feeling like I
have a place and that's my job.
(58:25):
I can't.
None of the things that havehappened for me since I moved to
Toronto the only reason whythey've happened is because I
took the step to go out to thesethings to make myself seen and
heard, and when I wasn't doingthat, I found disillusionment, I
found victimhood and I foundisolation and loneliness.
Speaker 2 (58:52):
Man, you could not have summed it up better or more
clearly.
I mean, this is the theme ofeverything we're about at the
the Love of Creatives and youjust wow is all I got to say
Summed it up in the mosteloquent way.
Okay, it's time.
Thank you, that was amazing.
It's time to move into rapidfire questions.
Speaker 1 (59:15):
Oh no, I hate these Okay.
Speaker 2 (59:18):
You'll do great and sometimes they're kind of random
, but since I know you, these,okay, you'll.
You'll do great.
And you know, sometimes they'rekind of random, but since I
know you, these are specific.
I hold these just for you.
Question number one if youcould have a redo on one part of
your life, what would it be?
Speaker 1 (59:37):
My connection to my birth family Got it.
Speaker 2 (59:42):
Number two if given the choice to live your creative
life in solitude or in acreative community, which would
you choose and why?
And I think you may havealready just really, really gone
over that unless you havesomething else to say?
It's pretty much covered.
Yeah, community Number three.
(01:00:09):
On over that one.
Unless you have something elseto say, it's pretty much covered
.
Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
Yeah, number three, when you're extremely old and
about to take your last breathwhat will have been the most
important part of your life my,my art, my work.
If you want to get to know me,you watch a movie I've made or
see something I've acted in andread a short story.
You know, you know who I am.
Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
I haven't seen them recently, but there was a period
of time when your posts onFacebook popped right up onto my
feed.
They haven't right, Lisa.
Posts on Facebook popped rightup onto my feed.
They haven't right, Liza.
You're not posting or thealgorithm has changed, but you
would be standing in the doorwaywith some fabulous outfit on,
always in great shoes.
So the dude at the meetingcould not have had better shoes
(01:00:53):
than you, because I'm ashoe-like-ah, so I know the
shoes yeah.
You got it going on.
I got to say that.
Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
Thank you, you have the fashion thing going on.
It must be the algorithm,because I am still whenever I go
out.
I don't know.
It's just, they say that you'resupposed to do something on
Instagram, so I'm like, okay,I'll just throw something
together and go to a party.
Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
I'm curious how many followers do you have on
instagram?
Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
oh, not very many, like 1700, I think.
Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
Oh, that's, that's a few, I mean, it's not like
millions, but that's yeah, youknow I'd give anything if we had
1700 on ours, but ours ispretty new I have a girlfriend
on drag race.
Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
I have a girlfriend in drag race that went from, I
think, before she.
It came out in canada, canada'sdrag race.
She was at like 19, now she'sat like almost 30 000 people oh
my goodness, we just got you.
We just got to shave you bothup.
We got to put on an eyelash, alittle red lip, slap on some
(01:01:57):
heels and get you on drag race,and that'll you know.
I think we could probably bothpull that off if we really tried
, we got to get into drag.
Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
Baron, this has been absolutely amazing.
I, I mean, I knew some of yourstory, but wow, and and and I
just want to honor yourvulnerability because you got it
down.
It's a superpower for you,isn't it?
Thank you, yeah, it's asuperpower for me as well, and
there was a part there in a fewminutes ago where I really I
(01:02:35):
thought I was going to ballright in the middle of your
story.
It touched me so deeply.
Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
Thank you, thanks for listening.
I appreciate both of you.
It's nice to meet you.
Speaker 2 (01:02:45):
I can't wait to make this public publish it, because
I just think it's like wow, wow,wow.
Speaker 3 (01:02:51):
Before we wrap is there anything, baron, that you
would like to leave ourlisteners with?
Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
Words of wisdom.
Speaker 1 (01:03:01):
Just say yes, say yes , yes, say yes to it and allow
the ideas to come in and allowthe downloads to happen, and as
best as you can, because youalways have the option of saying
no after you say yes.
So just say yes beautiful.
Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
I agree, wholeheartedly love it.
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