May 26, 2025 • 55 mins
What happens when we refuse to fit the mold others created for us? Keke Brooks, a musical theater performer and psychology student, joins us for a soul-stirring conversation about turning pain into passion through creative expression.
Keke opens her heart about growing up as a preacher's kid who "never felt like she fit in," struggling with social anxiety and ADHD while simultaneously developing her gifts as a performer. Rather than allowing these challenges to define her, she's transformed them into wellsprings of authenticity that fuel her performances and connect her deeply with audiences. As she beautifully puts it, "I am still afraid, but I'm doing it anyway."
The conversation takes unexpected turns as we explore the psychology of bullying, the false sense of power that comes from controlling others, and how true power can only be found by empowering those around us. Keke shares profound insights about the difference between healthy solitude (where creativity flourishes) and unhealthy isolation (where victim mentality festers).
What makes this episode particularly special is Keke's willingness to share her ongoing journey—not as someone who has "arrived" at perfect healing, but as a fellow traveler who continues to face challenges while choosing resilience daily. Her perspective that "healing is not a destination, it's a journey" offers permission for all of us to embrace our imperfect paths toward authentic expression.
Whether you're a creative struggling with anxiety, someone feeling pressured to conform to others' expectations, or simply seeking inspiration to show up more authentically in your life, Keke's story will remind you that your unique voice matters—and that your greatest wounds often become your greatest gifts when channeled through creative expression.
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Keke on Instagram
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
If we really don't face it, if we really don't do
the inner work that you aretalking about, maddox, to even
be able to speak from a place ofauthenticity, to speak from a
place of experience, to speakfrom a place of resilience and
to say that, hey, I am stillafraid, but I'm doing it anyway.
(00:33):
I am still dealing with woundsof my past, but I am resilient
because I'm still able to sayI'm strong and I'm still
overcoming at the same time andthat works hand in hand.
But that's a daily practice forme.
I'm doing mirror work, I'mjournaling, I'm using my
creative outlets and I'm alsosharing that for free, on how.
(01:00):
This is what the result of thatlooks like.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Hello and welcome to another edition of For the Love
of Creatives podcast.
I am your host, dwight.
I'm joined by our host, maddox.
We're the Connections andCommunity Guys and today our
featured guest is the wonderfulKiki Brooks.
Welcome, kiki.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Hi, I am grateful to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
We're so glad you could join us.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Yes, lovely to have you, Kiki.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
It's a pleasure.
I was really happy to have runinto you at an event at a local
club, the Tower Club.
It was a wonderful evening.
Everyone was dressed in theirfinest 1920s apparel.
(02:04):
Everyone was dressed in theirfinest 1920s apparel, and I was
really struck by how we had aconversation about a lot of the
things that you're doing.
I've had a chance to see someof the singing that you've
posted online.
That is fabulous, and I knowthat I could never do you
(02:29):
justice.
As far as an introduction, whatwould you like to share about
who you are and what you'reabout for our listeners?
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Yeah.
So again, it's a pleasure to behere.
Dwight Maddox and I'm like thiswas a really great night, the
night that we met Dwight becauseone of the things that I was
sharing is that, as a creative,I've been a creative ever since
I was a little girl, so singing,dancing, acting has been a
(03:01):
healing wellspring for me as itrelates to having social anxiety
and so having social anxietybeing a creative, a musical
theater major, and also inpsychology I'm also in school
for clinical psychology has beenworking together as far as in
(03:23):
helping me to heal and overcomein a creative way, and it has
helped me to also help healothers in their right by sharing
my story.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Thank you for sharing that and lots of different
points you hit on there and I'vejust got to applaud you for
being so open and vulnerable,because I, I know a lot, of, a
lot of people have, uh, justbecause of the the nature of
everything always having to berosy, um, they kind of hide
(04:00):
those, those things that aredifficult struggles that maybe
more of us have than we know,those those things that are
difficult struggles that maybemore of us have than we know,
because we just don't talk aboutthem.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
We talk about them here.
That's right.
Yeah, so for for me, I knowthat sharing my story is a way
that I'm overcoming, but it'salso a way where I'm able to
connect with others, and they'reenjoying seeing their eyes
brighten when I say that I'movercoming social anxiety and
hearing them say, oh my gosh, metoo.
(04:37):
It's allowing me to see thatwe're not alone in our various
journeys and that we're allresilient in one way.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
We're all, in some kind of way, as creatives,
turning our pain into ourpassion.
Beautifully said, kiki.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Turning our pain into passion.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Yeah, that's what went true in my life.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Yeah, yeah that's what went true in my life.
Yeah, so you said that you havebeen engaged in performing ever
since you were a little girl.
I'm really curious, like whatare your earliest memories of of
performing?
Speaker 1 (05:23):
yeah, yeah.
So my mom would always get me tosing in front of others.
I'm also a church girl and I wasnot fond of hearing that, you
know, growing up, because Ialways felt like I was different
from what I was seeing, andthere were certain things that I
(05:46):
didn't agree with and therewere times that I didn't feel
like they were loving peoplewell, and so it was one of those
things where I had to overcome,like feeling different but also
trying to fit the standard,knowing that the standard was
never how I wanted to be.
(06:06):
But it also allowed me to say,okay, well, if I, you know, want
to love others well, even whenI want to be unapologetically
myself, how can I exude that andhave a blend of spirituality,
the things that I was called andcreated to do and be, and also
(06:31):
look and be authentically myself, and so, you know, I have all
of that combined, and that wassomething that I learned how to
heal through by performing, andso it once became something that
I was like I don't want to doit.
I don't want to do it to beingable to really sing and perform
(06:54):
in ways where it touched thehearts of people.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
That is that is beautiful.
Is that is beautiful?
I, I know that as gay men,maddox and I can uh really
identify with what it is to uhbe forced into, uh fitting into
a box to make others comfortableand uh, yeah, that is I'm sure
(07:22):
a lot of our listeners canidentify with similar pain and,
you know, just trying to fitsomeone else's vision for them.
So you really turned that whatwas a struggle into a strength,
because I mean I'm just blownaway.
(07:43):
Because I mean I'm just blownaway.
It doesn't take long lookingthrough what you have posted
online.
You have, you are quite theperformer.
I mean your stuff is isuplifting and just great high
energy, wonderful.
I mean you sing like an angel.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
You sing like an angel, Kiki.
I'm sensing that you are aperson who has done a fair
amount of inner work.
Just by your words Am I?
Speaker 1 (08:15):
accurate, absolutely, absolutely that don't want to
be placed in a box, have gonethrough so much trauma from, you
know, being told that youshould and shouldn't do this and
be this, or seeing the lightthat you carry and becoming
(08:36):
envious of it.
Or seeing that you know thereis something different and
special about you.
But others, because they don'twant to be unapologetically
themselves, you know, haveallowed people to dictate who
they should be.
(08:59):
Overcoming trauma and abusiverelationships and having to
advocate for others.
Is that okay?
In order for me to advocate forothers, then I have to first
advocate for myself.
And what does that look like?
(09:22):
That looks like doing shadowworking, meaning really dealing
with those wounds from childhoodup until how we carry that into
adulthood.
If we really don't face it, ifwe really don't do the inner
work that you are talking about,maddox, to even be able to
speak from a place ofauthenticity, to speak from a
place of experience, speak froma place of experience, to speak
(09:49):
from a place of resilience andto say that, hey, I am still
afraid, but I'm doing it anyway.
I am still dealing with woundsof my past, but I am resilient
because I'm still able to sayI'm strong and I'm still
overcoming at the same time, andthat works hand in hand.
But that's a daily practice forme.
I'm doing mirror work, I'mjournaling, I'm using my
(10:11):
creative outlets and I'm alsosharing that for free on how.
This is what the result of thatlooks like.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
So, Kiki, that challenge you're talking about,
that struggle to just be who youreally are in a world where
people are trying to tell youwho you should be, in your
opinion, do you think that ismore common or amplified as a
creative than it would be for aperson who's not pursuing
(10:43):
creativity?
Do you think there's an addedlayer to that, Because
oftentimes maybe people thinkthat there's.
You know, what I hear the mostis creatives just always say
that people have told them alltheir lives get a real job.
Like creative endeavors are notconsidered a real job.
Do you have you experiencedthat and, if so, do you think
(11:05):
that in and of itself makes it alittle harder for us as
creatives than your averagehuman being?
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Yes and no, Because one one thing that I've I've
learned is I used to think thatcreatives struggled with it the
most, and that's how we express,we do the art of expression by
putting our traumas, the thingsthat we have gone through the
(11:34):
box that people try to put us in, into our creativity, and
that's really all of our healingwellsprings.
But then I started branching outof my creative community and I
started just listening to peoplein general and I started
realizing that, oh okay, themost judgmental people are the
(11:58):
ones that are struggling themost and they're really
struggling the most with theiridentity.
So what do they do?
They judge others, theycriticize others, they spew out
hate because they're dealingwith their identity in an
unhealthy manner as far as innot using what their gifts and
(12:22):
talents are, just like all of us, to allow that to be a healing
wellspring to help heal others.
So I've heard it on both ends.
But one thing that I've learnedis that if we're not as a
creative, or even if you're inanother field, if you are not
(12:42):
investing that time in yourself,back to that inner work and
what you are called to do,whether it is a creative outlet
or another outlet, then you willsee that in their actions and
the things that they say.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
I like the way you see that, I like your
perspective.
I like the way you see that Ilike your perspective Very nice
and there's somewhere in thereyou kind of described that the
bullied becomes the bully.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Yes, yes, absolutely.
Because they did not have, ordo not have, an outlet of a
community or people where theyfelt safe.
And because they did not feelsafe, then they adopted what was
(13:38):
pretty much exhibited to them,and so they saw that.
Okay, if I become the bully,that's when I feel respected.
Or if I put people in afear-like state, I feel
respected.
Or if I put people in afear-like state, that's when I'm
seen, you know, and that's anunhealthy way of moving in the
world, but they found out likeif I become the bully, then
(13:59):
that's how I equate respect.
But in reality, I do not want to.
As a human, apart from being acreative, I do not want to put
fear in people's hearts to gaintheir respect.
I desire respect because Irespect myself, and the way that
I respect myself is the waythat I desire to be respected
(14:23):
from others and the way that Iwill respect the way that you
look at respect.
But one thing that I've justlearned is that the bully
becomes the bully because theyfeel unheard, they was
misunderstood, and so I have alevel of compassion for them,
even when it pains me, because Iknow that that's coming from a
(14:45):
broken place.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
When we feel powerless, we will do anything
we can to just grasp onto thetiniest shred of power, and
being a bully gives them a senseof power, even if it is a false
sense of power.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
That's good, wow, mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Yeah, yeah.
That's an incredible lifelesson and I know that many will
probably could live their wholelives and and never make that
realization.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Well, and that respect that they are trying to
get by bullying is not realrespect.
It's a false sense of respect,because if you are respecting
them because you have to,because there's consequences,
that's not real respect.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
No, that's fear.
(16:04):
That's fear and that.
Admire that, because you cannotfind that in anyone else.
Versus, as you mentioned,maddox, I am just trying to
dominate and gain power overpeople, because this is truly
coming from a broken place oftrauma, a broken place of being
(16:24):
misunderstood, unheard, you know, being oppressed in a sense as
well, but because those healthyways of being acknowledged or
being seen, or being heard didnot happen for me.
So now I must infiltrate thatsame pain into others, and that
(16:48):
breaks my heart because I'm justlike but if they were able to
just see themselves, apart fromthe validation that they were
yearning from people that werestruggling themselves, then they
would be able to see the beautyin others, even if you don't
agree with how they talk, howthey walk their lifestyle, and
(17:12):
so I think that that's avaluable lesson to be learned
from all perspectives.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
I have come to believe for many years now, and
experienced it firsthand in myown life, that true power can
only be found by empoweringothers.
There's a false sense of powerwe see all over our world where
it's about take control, andthat's not real power.
(17:41):
It's always false sense ofpower and it always comes to an
end sooner or later.
But true power is forever andit's our ability to empower
another human being.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
That is so good, maddox.
I knew that.
That was the reason why I metDwight.
That's the reason why I'mmeeting you, maddox, it's the
reason why I'm able to speak andtalk and listen to the heart of
people that look like me, don'tlook like me, because I know
(18:18):
that we are all the same but alldifferent at the same time, are
all the same but all differentat the same time, and we all
bring something to the tablewhere we can help encourage
others, uplift each other, evenfrom a perspective of nonverbal
communication.
Say I see you because I knowthat I had to do some work to be
(18:42):
seen, but I had to make surethat I saw myself before I was
able to see you, maddox, orbefore I was able to see you,
dwight, because it also comesfrom a place of me turning my
pain into my power and thenallowing my power to empower
others.
And it came from a story.
(19:02):
It came from a story where Ican relate and say, oh my gosh,
you know what?
I didn't fit the standard.
I was a preacher's kid, had achild out of wedlock, had sex
before marriage, went into anabusive relationship, was
bullied before because of mygift, advocated for others that
(19:24):
were bullied, got beat upbecause of, you know, trying to
defend others, got, you know,pretty privileged, thrown into
like the fire because of justbeing pretty, you know, or just
being an African American, so,or being a single mom.
And so I'm like, oh my gosh, Ican relate, because I'm
(19:49):
different.
I'm weird, I'm unique.
I am not fitting into a mold ofwhat people are trying to put
me in.
Hey, I hear you, but at thesame time I'm like is that the
way that I feel about myself?
Are you putting value into meon a daily, where what your
(20:09):
words say holds any kind ofmerit of how I feel about myself
, or the people that truly loveme have said about me?
And so that's what allows me tocontinue to keep doing it,
afraid and showing up for myselfevery single day to say you
know what I'm still doing it andyou can do it too.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
You are speaking our language, kiki, so much of what
you're saying is sounds so muchlike conversations that we have
in our household on a day in,day out basis.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
It sounds like the kind of thing that we would hope
would come out of peopleattending one of our events, one
of our experience events.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Yeah, I have to definitely attend because I love
even having friends that peoplewouldn't typically match me
with and be like oh no, that'smy buddy Dwight.
Yeah, that's my buddy Maddox,that person right there.
(21:21):
We support each other in thisway and I love to see how people
look because I'm like, oh right, I didn't fit your, your box,
your standard of what youthought or what your perception
of me was or the way that youlove, because I know that the
(21:42):
way that I do is love is patient, love is kind.
Love is not boastful.
Love does not keep a record ofwrongs, love does not judge
others or is envious of thelight that others carry.
Love just shows upauthentically and open and say
(22:09):
Love just shows up authenticallyand open and say listen at the
end of the day.
I just love you because you're ahuman being.
That's it.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
That's it Absolutely.
Couldn't have said it bettermyself.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
And how can and what can we do together to make this
world be a counter-culturalworld?
Speaker 3 (22:26):
That's the conversation we have almost
daily and work so hard to bringthat into everything we do.
How do we set it up wherepeople naturally just gravitate
in a loving way towards eachother, with kindness and respect
?
Kiki, let's dive a little bitmore into your creative journey.
(22:46):
We want to hear more about whatit's all about and what makes
your heart sing, and how do youdo it and how do you get through
the hard times.
Anything you'd like to share?
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Yeah.
So I kind of touched on justthe journey of my past even into
the present, and as a child Iwas a preacher's kid that just
(23:22):
never felt like I fit in becauseI didn't agree with the rules
and the dictatorship.
I also advocated for othersbecause I have a differently
able brother, and so that wasanother means to advocate,
because here I was, peopletrying to put me in a box of
popularity and I'm like well, ifyou are going to deem me as
(23:44):
popular, then popular is goingto look like embracing others
that don't look like a jock or acheerleader or the you know the
best of the best of what youview.
The popularity is going to looklike oh, you are going to see
(24:05):
me talking to a differentlyabled person, like I would talk
to someone else, and I don'teven like to use normal because
I'm like what's normal, what'snormal?
But I'm like you are going tosee me engage in and talk to
others that don't look like meor may look the same.
(24:26):
Because, again, like I statedbefore, we're more alike than
different and I love to hear theintellect of others and that's
what inspires me, because I'mjust like oh, wow, that causes
me to think differently.
That takes me out of the box ofjust having a rigid way of
thinking, but it expands my mindof creativity where I'm like OK
(24:50):
, I can sing to this audiencebecause this audience is able to
relate to.
Oh, ok, they've experiencedsocial anxiety in a different
way, social anxiety in adifferent way.
I also have ADHD and I'm able to, you know, learn people even
(25:11):
when I forget their names oreven when my ADHD kicks in and
I'm, you know, forgettingcertain things, but I touch on
certain things that stands outabout someone and I'm like this
is how I will remember them,even when I don't remember their
name.
And one thing I remembered aboutDwight is that he had this calm
confidence and he was veryarticulate and he was very
(25:35):
present and I was like you knowwhat, dwight?
I would love to be on yourpodcast because you are
authentic.
You're not trying to sell mesomething, but I really feel the
authenticity in your heart.
You know, I really feel theauthenticity of your resilience
(25:56):
as a gay man, as a gayAfrican-American it seems like
you're mixed, I don't know, butI'm like I'm just feeling so
many things from our encounterright now and it's authentic and
I like to show up in ways thatI'm like.
They are genuine, they are kind, they are intellects, they are
(26:18):
creatives and they areattracting that and I want to be
a part of that, and so that'sall working together.
My mental health, my you know,my creativity in the arts
(26:39):
because I'm a musical theatermajor as well and then also
being able to relate and checkoff so many boxes is why I'm
here.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
That's, that's really incredible, and I can't tell
you that it's.
It's such a gift, so affirmingfor you to share what you've
said about us, for you to sharewhat you've said about us Along
(27:18):
those lines, I'm really curiousas to what the biggest thing
that you've embarked on in yourjourney to creativity.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
I love the fact that, through my creativity, people
can truly feel my heart, andit's not something that is just
performance, although I'm doingfrom within and it came from
showing up and not saying thatI'm this perfect human being,
but that I have so manychallenges that I'm overcoming.
And this is how I still continueto persevere in spite of and
that is throughout my singing,my acting, and there's a reason
(28:08):
that you're feeling somethingthat goes beyond oh okay, she's
just a great performer.
No, I'm feeling something elsethat I can't put my finger on,
and that is because I'm like,I'm able to feel your pain too.
I'm able to say that I see youbecause I see me.
(28:32):
I'm able to say I hear you,because I had to make sure that,
although your praise is a bonus, I'm like no, kiki, how do you
feel today?
How do you feel about yourself?
What affirmations are youspeaking to yourself daily, so
(28:52):
that when people hear your voice, they know that there's
something in her that I see inme, and that's how I want to
continue to empower othersthrough my creativity.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
I love that.
Is there anything that is onthe horizon, anything that would
be a milestone achievement thatyou're working toward?
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Yeah, so I'm working on a number of projects, but you
have to follow me to reallystay tuned, because I love
keeping the adrenaline rush inthe mystery of me.
So I am honing in on everythingthat I've mentioned and so that
(29:49):
is my singing.
That is the field of psychology, that is the field of advocacy,
that is in the field ofspirituality, that is in the
field of continuing to create anenvironment where I am
overcoming and that's the socialanxiety, that's the ADHD, that
is the therapy that I'm doing sothat I can heal, continue to
(30:13):
heal and help heal others.
So you have to follow me andstay tuned, because I may pop in
one day and pop out, but staytuned, because I may pop in one
day and pop out, but stay tuned.
So you've mentioned thepsychology study Is that for
(30:36):
your own value and benefit, oris there a plan to become a
therapist?
It's for my own value andbenefit first and foremost, so
that is the reason that I firstjoined.
That is the reason that I firstjoined.
I actually wanted to be in thefield of psychology and mental
health ever since I was a littlegirl, and so I also wanted to
be an artist, and I'm like whichone do I pursue first?
(30:58):
And so I pursued artistry firstand then had to take a break in
life and deal with life things.
And now I'm back.
But what brought me back waswanting to overcome my ADHD,
wanting to overcome socialanxiety, and wanted to attract
(31:19):
like-minded and like-mindedL-I-G-H-T.
Like-minded beings, and so Iwent back to school for that.
But then I'm all for people,and so it also was the caveat in
wanting to also be help othersas well.
(31:40):
And so I honestly don't knowwhat I'm going to do with having
this degree in clinicalpsychology, but I know that I
want to find holistic ways andalso, if needed, you know,
medicinal ways to help others intheir way of traumas and
(32:05):
resiliency.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
Well, there is definitely an intersection of
art and therapy.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
It is.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
It is there are options Absolutely, or you could
have it all.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
You sure can, you sure can, and that was the
choice of not allowing anyone toput me in a box.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
I love that and as you were talking about light
minded individuals, I could nothelp but think about how it's.
I think it's another way ofsaying how we like to work with
heart centered individuals.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Absolutely, absolutely, because we know that
it's coming from our ownresiliency.
It's coming from the thingsthat we are still overcoming and
advocating for ourselves andothers for and intuitively feel
(33:07):
from others, when they arealigning on the same path that
we are in, even if we're calledto do various things.
But one thing that I love whenwe're all in alignment is that
it just flows.
You know it flows and it'sthose divine timings where we
know that, oh, okay, even thoughwe're on a mission like this,
(33:32):
wasn't by coincidence orhappenstance that we saw this
thing, we met this person orwe're doing this thing because
we are all in alignment of okay,we were chosen to turn this
pain into our passion.
So I know it wasn't byhappenstance that we're here
(33:54):
today, dwight and Maddox.
I'm just grateful with a heartof gratitude.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
I agree, I think things unfold in a very magical
and mystical way that oftentimeswe can't quite see or don't
understand.
Oftentimes we can't quite seeor don't understand.
So I'd love to know, kiki, howhas, in all of your creative
journey singing, the dancing,the performing theater, all of
the things that you have doneand experienced how has or how
(34:21):
does community play a role inthat or does it?
You know, we talk to artiststhat are very solo and they
don't, they're not part of acreatives or art community or a
singing or musical community.
Speak to that for us.
Tell us a little bit about thatintersection in your personal
(34:43):
journey.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Sure, yeah.
So social anxiety, adhd,introvert, so I love spending a
lot of time alone.
It is when I'm the mostcreative, it is when I'm the
most productive, it is when I'mable to reflect in times of
(35:07):
introspection, to learn a lotabout myself and others.
But I think that there's somuch power in the collaboration
with community because it helpsus to be better than what we can
do by ourselves.
It helps us to gain insight onhow we can show up better for
(35:30):
ourselves so that we may be ableto be more impactful and more
influential to other people.
And that's by hearing others'perspectives, that's by hearing
the hearts of other people inways that we can show up for
others.
And I think that we can onlymultiply in numbers to push a
(35:53):
movement forward, to push ourcreativity forward.
And man, when we all cometogether and we have one mind
but also have different thingsthat we can contribute and bring
to this, one can contribute andbring to this one big mission.
(36:15):
I think that that's what allowsour light to shine even
brighter than it could if wewere trying to shine alone.
And so I think that communityplays a pivotal role in our
success because it allows us toexpand beyond our horizon and it
allows us to know how we can bemost effective for our
(36:35):
communities outside of ourcommunities and really be
countercultural, as we mentionedbefore, to a dying world, a
hurting world.
But in that dying and hurtingworld there's still that beauty
that comes from ashes that wecan allow people to see, from
(36:59):
the connections that we form incommunity.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
Very well said.
You know we're very, verypro-community because we believe
that we're just better together.
You know I'm never an advocateof saying that you need to do
every ounce of your creativitywith others in community,
because there are some peopleand certainly some forms of
creativity that are best done insolitude.
(37:26):
But I don't think that meansthat we have to do our whole
creative journey and life insolitude.
But I don't think that meansthat we have to do our whole
creative journey and life insolitude.
I think you can go off andwrite that essay in quiet
solitude, but maybe in theconversations that you have in
community you gain all kinds ofideas and great feedback about
(37:48):
what it is you are writing.
I've come to believe that whenwe are siloed with no community,
we are surviving, and when weare steeped in and involved in
community we are thriving.
There may be occasionalexceptions, but for the most
part occasional exceptions, butfor the most part not so much.
(38:16):
I think it's either survive orthrive.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
it's either, you know , solid oh not solitude, but
isolation or community yeah, andI love that you pointed out
isolation and solitude, right,and knowing that the dichotomy
of that is that solitude is thatthe healthy aspect of being
(38:40):
alone.
It is the time that you canreflect in introspection and
glean from ideas, from peoplethat has made an impact in your
life, but it also adds value tothe gifts that was already
indebted in you, and that'swhere that solitude comes from.
(39:01):
That's where those ideas andthose juices will start to flow.
But then, once you come out ofsolitude, that is when you can
join together with other likeand like-minded individuals to
be able to grow, to be able tobe a better you.
But then there's that isolationthat you mentioned, maddox,
(39:24):
where you're in survival mode inan unhealthy way, where you
think that I don't trust anybody, I don't need anybody, and we
know that that comes from abroken place.
We know that that comes from anegotistical place.
That comes from a place where,okay, there are people that may
(39:44):
have proven to be untrustworthy,them to be untrustworthy, but
then there are ways that you mayhave not shown up for yourself.
You know, and how can youunderstand your growth areas or
ways that you have grown if youdon't put yourself back out
there.
So, like you say to Maddox,there's so much power in
(40:07):
community and solitude, you know, versus isolation and trying to
survive.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
Yes, I think in the appropriate amounts.
Solitude is very, very healthy,and for introverts and even
ambiverts, it is the primary waywe charge our battery.
I'm an ambivert, but I thinkthere's no such thing as healthy
isolation.
Isolation is an unhealthy thing, and we are experiencing a
(40:40):
global epidemic right now ofisolation that we have basically
brought on ourselves, andpeople are so distracted they're
made, they're largely obliviousto it yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
And one of the things that I had to challenge myself
with is because I honestly cameout of a state of isolation.
At first it it turned intosolitude and but if you're not
careful, if you're not mindful,it can turn into unhealthy
(41:16):
isolation.
And it came from, you know,going through so many
transitions where it wasunbearable.
And just seeing where you knowunbearable and just seeing where
you know, the more you heal,the more you come out of the
state of people pleasing.
You know that can also changethe dynamic of relationships
(41:38):
that you thought you needed.
But then, as you continue togrow and learn more about
yourself and heal your innerchild of where it stemmed from,
then you go into this survivalmode of feeling like no one's
there for you and I have to dothis because no one's coming to
(41:59):
rescue you.
But then I had to realize likeokay, wait a minute.
How do I feel these feels?
How do I go through thesewounds and feel the pressures
and the pain of that?
But then how do I come out ofthat and heal but still be
(42:19):
healthy again, even when thefull dynamic of what I'm
manifesting in desire is notfully here?
And so that's when it graduallycame out of the isolation mode
that I was in.
When we come into that victimmentality I was a victim, so I
(42:39):
don't want to shamevictimization because I was a
victim of abuse.
But then I'm like, okay, how doI come out of this pity party
of regret or what I should havedone or what I shouldn't have
done or what I should have known, and extend myself that
compassion and that grace,because if I don't do that, then
(43:01):
I won't have a heart to do thatfor others, and come out of the
mode of that.
And how do I heal in a healthyway of that?
And how do I heal in a healthyway?
And so it started with thegroundwork of getting back to
what I love being a creativesinging, dancing, sharing what
I'm learning with others andthen bringing that to a
(43:21):
community where I'm like youknow what?
This is how I did thegroundwork of saying listen, I
was in isolation too.
I went through betrayals, Iwent through transitions, I went
through hate, I went throughprejudices.
I went through all of thosethings and I still face some of
those things and I still haveuncertainty about other things.
(43:44):
But this is what I'm doing I'msinging still, I'm dancing.
I'm back in school, you know,for clinical psychology, so I
can continue to heal and behealthy, so I can help others.
But I'm also learning andlistening to other people's
journeys and knowing that, oh mygosh, this is aligning, because
(44:05):
I'm like if I didn't stepoutside of isolation, I wouldn't
have been able to hear theirstory, they wouldn't have been
able to hear mine, they wouldn'tbe able to look at me and be
like, oh my gosh, you wentthrough that.
I'm like, yes, and I'm stillovercoming and I'm still rising
like a phoenix, but I'm stilluncertain about things.
(44:28):
But I'm still doing the work,and so I'm grateful to be here
because I'm like, I'm anintrovert, I have ADHD, I'm now
back a single mom, I am stillovercoming traumas, I'm still
healing, because healing is nota destination, it's a journey
and I'm still thriving.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
Yes, you know you talked about coming out of
isolation.
One of the for me, one of themost effective ways that I've
discovered to come out ofisolation.
Isolation is very much aboutit's all about me.
You know, we're so in our ownhead and our own experience and
what we're going through, thatwe can't see the proverbial
(45:12):
trees for the forest, and I findthat one of the ways that snaps
me out of that is to justmerely be of service to others.
Take the focus off of me, lookout among my circle of people
and friends and acquaintancesand find somebody that needs a
little bit of support and justbeing of service to them, and it
(45:37):
puts things back in perspectivein a magical way.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
Yeah, it's beautiful, maddox, because I really had an
experience like that yesterday.
I was in a rehearsal and I justreached out to someone and
walked up to them and I toldthem that they were doing a
great job and I really sharedwith them the things that I
(46:04):
observed and noticed about them,and so I put some tangible
things on, not just great job.
Here are the reasons why you aredoing a great job, that I see
you and their eyes brightened upas if they hadn't heard such a
(46:24):
thing in a really long time, andit brought it brought joy to my
heart because I saw that theireyes watered up and I'm like I
just made an observation and Iwanted to make an
acknowledgement of you aremaking a huge impact to the
(46:44):
sound of what is to bringeverything into light on that
performance day.
But I realized, oh my goodness,just to show someone that they
are seen and that they are heardand these are the ways that
they are making an impact issomething that goes profoundly a
(47:07):
long way with others, andthat's stepping outside of your
self-matics, as you mentioned,of saying that, okay, I put the
mask on myself and I'm good, buthow do I overflow that beauty,
that love, that resiliency thatyou're seen, you're loved,
(47:29):
you're heard.
Resiliency that you're seen,you're loved, you're heard,
you're understood, by goingoutside of the frame of me and
saying I see you too, and soI'll go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (47:40):
You're describing largely why we host this podcast
.
You know, there was a point inmy journey where I realized that
every human being has an innateneed to be seen and heard, and
this platform is about givingcreatives a voice, giving them a
safe place where they can beseen and be heard, and we hope.
(48:06):
Our hope is that it is anincredible gift.
That's what our desire and hopeis.
Dwight, you had something youwanted to say.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
Yeah, I just want to say that, as you're sharing what
it is that you've had toovercome, I know, without a
doubt, that there will be otherswho will listen, who will have
a strong sense.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
They'll be at a different point in their journey
than you are, but just from yousharing your story, it's going
to give them hope that they cansee the other side of it yes
yeah, that's the biggest thingis that I I hope that my story
(48:58):
gives them hope, but I believethat what you and and maddox are
bringing to the table isalready giving creatives hope,
because many a times what I'velearned by just listening to
others' stories is that, youknow, their creativity has given
them hope where their wordscan't really, you know, speak,
(49:22):
because oftentimes they havefelt shunned out or judged
because of who they are ormistreated because of the
lifestyle that they have chosen.
So I know that this podcastalone will give people hope, but
of course I want the hope thatis coming from within to give
(49:46):
hope to others, because I'm like.
That doesn't mean that I'vearrived, but I know that I'm
thriving and I know that hopecomes with faith and that's what
I know.
That goes hand in hand.
It's really knowing that, eventhough I can't put my hand on it
right now, I have hope thatit's coming.
(50:08):
I have hope that the minorsteps that I'm doing right now
is adding value to the biggerpicture.
But that comes with the dailythings that I'm choosing, and
most of the times that's amindset versus the tangible
things that I can hold on to andsay, oh, this is what makes me
happy because I realize that youcan be on the top of the
(50:31):
mountain one day and then thenext minute life will happen.
And it still challenges you tosay do you still have that hope,
even when you lose some thingsor you lose some people?
Or you know what you put all ofyour identity in is not coming
(50:51):
with you in the next season?
And so that's really what thisseason has given me is hope,
because I have gone throughchallenges that have caused me
to start all the way over over.
(51:15):
And when I say that I'm likegoing through a divorce, I have
a 19-year-old son that's goingthrough some challenges.
Because trying to embrace thisidentity of if I really show
people who I really am, willthey really accept me?
Talking to other young adultswhere they're like this is who I
am, but if I bring myself fullyto the table, hate will come my
(51:37):
way.
I won't have the friends that Ihave, I won't have the support
that I have.
That truly breaks my heartbecause, honestly, having a
heart of bravery to be yourselfunapologetically comes with
persecutions.
It comes with people notaccepting you for who you truly
(52:01):
are.
But do you accept you?
And when you accept you for whoyou truly are, other like
mindedminded and light-mindedbeings you will attract.
Speaker 3 (52:14):
Beautiful Kiki.
You certainly demonstratewisdom beyond your years.
I just want to say bravo forthat.
We are starting to run a littleshort on time, and so Mr Dwight
is going to deliver what wecall rapid fire questions, for
rapid fire answers.
Sound good, sounds great.
Speaker 2 (52:37):
All right.
So the first question what'syour favorite part of the
creative process?
Speaker 1 (52:48):
Healing, thriving and being unapologetically me.
Speaker 2 (52:56):
Beautifully said.
Speaker 3 (52:57):
Beautifully said, yes .
Speaker 2 (53:00):
Our next question is how do you define a creative
community?
Speaker 1 (53:12):
people that are weird , people that are vulnerable,
people that do not take life soseriously and people that are
showing up authenticallythemselves.
Speaker 2 (53:22):
I love that you're describing our people.
Speaker 3 (53:25):
You are.
Speaker 2 (53:28):
Now our final rapid fire question is if your
creativity had a theme song,what would it be?
Speaker 1 (53:43):
I have to steal this one from Alicia Keys, but this
girl is on fire.
This girl is on fire.
Yes, love it.
Speaker 3 (54:02):
Thank you for gracing us with that.
That's awesome, kiki.
This has been just amazing, andwe're ever so honored and
grateful that you came to shareyour story and your wisdom with
us and our listeners.
Speaker 1 (54:16):
Absolutely Such a pleasure, such a joy to be on a
thriving podcast.
Thanks, maddox and Dwight.
Speaker 2 (54:26):
Thank you.
Thank you, Kiki.
If we really don't face it, if we really don't do
the inner work that you aretalking about, maddox, to even
be able to speak from a place ofauthenticity, to speak from a
place of experience, to speakfrom a place of resilience and
to say that, hey, I am stillafraid, but I'm doing it anyway.
(00:33):
I am still dealing with woundsof my past, but I am resilient
because I'm still able to sayI'm strong and I'm still
overcoming at the same time andthat works hand in hand.
But that's a daily practice forme.
I'm doing mirror work, I'mjournaling, I'm using my
creative outlets and I'm alsosharing that for free, on how.
(01:00):
This is what the result of thatlooks like.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Hello and welcome to another edition of For the Love
of Creatives podcast.
I am your host, dwight.
I'm joined by our host, maddox.
We're the Connections andCommunity Guys and today our
featured guest is the wonderfulKiki Brooks.
Welcome, kiki.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Hi, I am grateful to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
We're so glad you could join us.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Yes, lovely to have you, Kiki.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
It's a pleasure.
I was really happy to have runinto you at an event at a local
club, the Tower Club.
It was a wonderful evening.
Everyone was dressed in theirfinest 1920s apparel.
(02:04):
Everyone was dressed in theirfinest 1920s apparel, and I was
really struck by how we had aconversation about a lot of the
things that you're doing.
I've had a chance to see someof the singing that you've
posted online.
That is fabulous, and I knowthat I could never do you
(02:29):
justice.
As far as an introduction, whatwould you like to share about
who you are and what you'reabout for our listeners?
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Yeah.
So again, it's a pleasure to behere.
Dwight Maddox and I'm like thiswas a really great night, the
night that we met Dwight becauseone of the things that I was
sharing is that, as a creative,I've been a creative ever since
I was a little girl, so singing,dancing, acting has been a
(03:01):
healing wellspring for me as itrelates to having social anxiety
and so having social anxietybeing a creative, a musical
theater major, and also inpsychology I'm also in school
for clinical psychology has beenworking together as far as in
(03:23):
helping me to heal and overcomein a creative way, and it has
helped me to also help healothers in their right by sharing
my story.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Thank you for sharing that and lots of different
points you hit on there and I'vejust got to applaud you for
being so open and vulnerable,because I, I know a lot, of, a
lot of people have, uh, justbecause of the the nature of
everything always having to berosy, um, they kind of hide
(04:00):
those, those things that aredifficult struggles that maybe
more of us have than we know,those those things that are
difficult struggles that maybemore of us have than we know,
because we just don't talk aboutthem.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
We talk about them here.
That's right.
Yeah, so for for me, I knowthat sharing my story is a way
that I'm overcoming, but it'salso a way where I'm able to
connect with others, and they'reenjoying seeing their eyes
brighten when I say that I'movercoming social anxiety and
hearing them say, oh my gosh, metoo.
(04:37):
It's allowing me to see thatwe're not alone in our various
journeys and that we're allresilient in one way.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
We're all, in some kind of way, as creatives,
turning our pain into ourpassion.
Beautifully said, kiki.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Turning our pain into passion.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Yeah, that's what went true in my life.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Yeah, yeah that's what went true in my life.
Yeah, so you said that you havebeen engaged in performing ever
since you were a little girl.
I'm really curious, like whatare your earliest memories of of
performing?
Speaker 1 (05:23):
yeah, yeah.
So my mom would always get me tosing in front of others.
I'm also a church girl and I wasnot fond of hearing that, you
know, growing up, because Ialways felt like I was different
from what I was seeing, andthere were certain things that I
(05:46):
didn't agree with and therewere times that I didn't feel
like they were loving peoplewell, and so it was one of those
things where I had to overcome,like feeling different but also
trying to fit the standard,knowing that the standard was
never how I wanted to be.
(06:06):
But it also allowed me to say,okay, well, if I, you know, want
to love others well, even whenI want to be unapologetically
myself, how can I exude that andhave a blend of spirituality,
the things that I was called andcreated to do and be, and also
(06:31):
look and be authentically myself, and so, you know, I have all
of that combined, and that wassomething that I learned how to
heal through by performing, andso it once became something that
I was like I don't want to doit.
I don't want to do it to beingable to really sing and perform
(06:54):
in ways where it touched thehearts of people.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
That is that is beautiful.
Is that is beautiful?
I, I know that as gay men,maddox and I can uh really
identify with what it is to uhbe forced into, uh fitting into
a box to make others comfortableand uh, yeah, that is I'm sure
(07:22):
a lot of our listeners canidentify with similar pain and,
you know, just trying to fitsomeone else's vision for them.
So you really turned that whatwas a struggle into a strength,
because I mean I'm just blownaway.
(07:43):
Because I mean I'm just blownaway.
It doesn't take long lookingthrough what you have posted
online.
You have, you are quite theperformer.
I mean your stuff is isuplifting and just great high
energy, wonderful.
I mean you sing like an angel.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
You sing like an angel, Kiki.
I'm sensing that you are aperson who has done a fair
amount of inner work.
Just by your words Am I?
Speaker 1 (08:15):
accurate, absolutely, absolutely that don't want to
be placed in a box, have gonethrough so much trauma from, you
know, being told that youshould and shouldn't do this and
be this, or seeing the lightthat you carry and becoming
(08:36):
envious of it.
Or seeing that you know thereis something different and
special about you.
But others, because they don'twant to be unapologetically
themselves, you know, haveallowed people to dictate who
they should be.
(08:59):
Overcoming trauma and abusiverelationships and having to
advocate for others.
Is that okay?
In order for me to advocate forothers, then I have to first
advocate for myself.
And what does that look like?
(09:22):
That looks like doing shadowworking, meaning really dealing
with those wounds from childhoodup until how we carry that into
adulthood.
If we really don't face it, ifwe really don't do the inner
work that you are talking about,maddox, to even be able to
speak from a place ofauthenticity, to speak from a
place of experience, speak froma place of experience, to speak
(09:49):
from a place of resilience andto say that, hey, I am still
afraid, but I'm doing it anyway.
I am still dealing with woundsof my past, but I am resilient
because I'm still able to sayI'm strong and I'm still
overcoming at the same time, andthat works hand in hand.
But that's a daily practice forme.
I'm doing mirror work, I'mjournaling, I'm using my
(10:11):
creative outlets and I'm alsosharing that for free on how.
This is what the result of thatlooks like.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
So, Kiki, that challenge you're talking about,
that struggle to just be who youreally are in a world where
people are trying to tell youwho you should be, in your
opinion, do you think that ismore common or amplified as a
creative than it would be for aperson who's not pursuing
(10:43):
creativity?
Do you think there's an addedlayer to that, Because
oftentimes maybe people thinkthat there's.
You know, what I hear the mostis creatives just always say
that people have told them alltheir lives get a real job.
Like creative endeavors are notconsidered a real job.
Do you have you experiencedthat and, if so, do you think
(11:05):
that in and of itself makes it alittle harder for us as
creatives than your averagehuman being?
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Yes and no, Because one one thing that I've I've
learned is I used to think thatcreatives struggled with it the
most, and that's how we express,we do the art of expression by
putting our traumas, the thingsthat we have gone through the
(11:34):
box that people try to put us in, into our creativity, and
that's really all of our healingwellsprings.
But then I started branching outof my creative community and I
started just listening to peoplein general and I started
realizing that, oh okay, themost judgmental people are the
(11:58):
ones that are struggling themost and they're really
struggling the most with theiridentity.
So what do they do?
They judge others, theycriticize others, they spew out
hate because they're dealingwith their identity in an
unhealthy manner as far as innot using what their gifts and
(12:22):
talents are, just like all of us, to allow that to be a healing
wellspring to help heal others.
So I've heard it on both ends.
But one thing that I've learnedis that if we're not as a
creative, or even if you're inanother field, if you are not
(12:42):
investing that time in yourself,back to that inner work and
what you are called to do,whether it is a creative outlet
or another outlet, then you willsee that in their actions and
the things that they say.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
I like the way you see that, I like your
perspective.
I like the way you see that Ilike your perspective Very nice
and there's somewhere in thereyou kind of described that the
bullied becomes the bully.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Yes, yes, absolutely.
Because they did not have, ordo not have, an outlet of a
community or people where theyfelt safe.
And because they did not feelsafe, then they adopted what was
(13:38):
pretty much exhibited to them,and so they saw that.
Okay, if I become the bully,that's when I feel respected.
Or if I put people in afear-like state, I feel
respected.
Or if I put people in afear-like state, that's when I'm
seen, you know, and that's anunhealthy way of moving in the
world, but they found out likeif I become the bully, then
(13:59):
that's how I equate respect.
But in reality, I do not want to.
As a human, apart from being acreative, I do not want to put
fear in people's hearts to gaintheir respect.
I desire respect because Irespect myself, and the way that
I respect myself is the waythat I desire to be respected
(14:23):
from others and the way that Iwill respect the way that you
look at respect.
But one thing that I've justlearned is that the bully
becomes the bully because theyfeel unheard, they was
misunderstood, and so I have alevel of compassion for them,
even when it pains me, because Iknow that that's coming from a
(14:45):
broken place.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
When we feel powerless, we will do anything
we can to just grasp onto thetiniest shred of power, and
being a bully gives them a senseof power, even if it is a false
sense of power.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
That's good, wow, mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Yeah, yeah.
That's an incredible lifelesson and I know that many will
probably could live their wholelives and and never make that
realization.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Well, and that respect that they are trying to
get by bullying is not realrespect.
It's a false sense of respect,because if you are respecting
them because you have to,because there's consequences,
that's not real respect.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
No, that's fear.
(16:04):
That's fear and that.
Admire that, because you cannotfind that in anyone else.
Versus, as you mentioned,maddox, I am just trying to
dominate and gain power overpeople, because this is truly
coming from a broken place oftrauma, a broken place of being
(16:24):
misunderstood, unheard, you know, being oppressed in a sense as
well, but because those healthyways of being acknowledged or
being seen, or being heard didnot happen for me.
So now I must infiltrate thatsame pain into others, and that
(16:48):
breaks my heart because I'm justlike but if they were able to
just see themselves, apart fromthe validation that they were
yearning from people that werestruggling themselves, then they
would be able to see the beautyin others, even if you don't
agree with how they talk, howthey walk their lifestyle, and
(17:12):
so I think that that's avaluable lesson to be learned
from all perspectives.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
I have come to believe for many years now, and
experienced it firsthand in myown life, that true power can
only be found by empoweringothers.
There's a false sense of powerwe see all over our world where
it's about take control, andthat's not real power.
(17:41):
It's always false sense ofpower and it always comes to an
end sooner or later.
But true power is forever andit's our ability to empower
another human being.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
That is so good, maddox.
I knew that.
That was the reason why I metDwight.
That's the reason why I'mmeeting you, maddox, it's the
reason why I'm able to speak andtalk and listen to the heart of
people that look like me, don'tlook like me, because I know
(18:18):
that we are all the same but alldifferent at the same time, are
all the same but all differentat the same time, and we all
bring something to the tablewhere we can help encourage
others, uplift each other, evenfrom a perspective of nonverbal
communication.
Say I see you because I knowthat I had to do some work to be
(18:42):
seen, but I had to make surethat I saw myself before I was
able to see you, maddox, orbefore I was able to see you,
dwight, because it also comesfrom a place of me turning my
pain into my power and thenallowing my power to empower
others.
And it came from a story.
(19:02):
It came from a story where Ican relate and say, oh my gosh,
you know what?
I didn't fit the standard.
I was a preacher's kid, had achild out of wedlock, had sex
before marriage, went into anabusive relationship, was
bullied before because of mygift, advocated for others that
(19:24):
were bullied, got beat upbecause of, you know, trying to
defend others, got, you know,pretty privileged, thrown into
like the fire because of justbeing pretty, you know, or just
being an African American, so,or being a single mom.
And so I'm like, oh my gosh, Ican relate, because I'm
(19:49):
different.
I'm weird, I'm unique.
I am not fitting into a mold ofwhat people are trying to put
me in.
Hey, I hear you, but at thesame time I'm like is that the
way that I feel about myself?
Are you putting value into meon a daily, where what your
(20:09):
words say holds any kind ofmerit of how I feel about myself
, or the people that truly loveme have said about me?
And so that's what allows me tocontinue to keep doing it,
afraid and showing up for myselfevery single day to say you
know what I'm still doing it andyou can do it too.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
You are speaking our language, kiki, so much of what
you're saying is sounds so muchlike conversations that we have
in our household on a day in,day out basis.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
It sounds like the kind of thing that we would hope
would come out of peopleattending one of our events, one
of our experience events.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Yeah, I have to definitely attend because I love
even having friends that peoplewouldn't typically match me
with and be like oh no, that'smy buddy Dwight.
Yeah, that's my buddy Maddox,that person right there.
(21:21):
We support each other in thisway and I love to see how people
look because I'm like, oh right, I didn't fit your, your box,
your standard of what youthought or what your perception
of me was or the way that youlove, because I know that the
(21:42):
way that I do is love is patient, love is kind.
Love is not boastful.
Love does not keep a record ofwrongs, love does not judge
others or is envious of thelight that others carry.
Love just shows upauthentically and open and say
(22:09):
Love just shows up authenticallyand open and say listen at the
end of the day.
I just love you because you're ahuman being.
That's it.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
That's it Absolutely.
Couldn't have said it bettermyself.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
And how can and what can we do together to make this
world be a counter-culturalworld?
Speaker 3 (22:26):
That's the conversation we have almost
daily and work so hard to bringthat into everything we do.
How do we set it up wherepeople naturally just gravitate
in a loving way towards eachother, with kindness and respect
?
Kiki, let's dive a little bitmore into your creative journey.
(22:46):
We want to hear more about whatit's all about and what makes
your heart sing, and how do youdo it and how do you get through
the hard times.
Anything you'd like to share?
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Yeah.
So I kind of touched on justthe journey of my past even into
the present, and as a child Iwas a preacher's kid that just
(23:22):
never felt like I fit in becauseI didn't agree with the rules
and the dictatorship.
I also advocated for othersbecause I have a differently
able brother, and so that wasanother means to advocate,
because here I was, peopletrying to put me in a box of
popularity and I'm like well, ifyou are going to deem me as
(23:44):
popular, then popular is goingto look like embracing others
that don't look like a jock or acheerleader or the you know the
best of the best of what youview.
The popularity is going to looklike oh, you are going to see
(24:05):
me talking to a differentlyabled person, like I would talk
to someone else, and I don'teven like to use normal because
I'm like what's normal, what'snormal?
But I'm like you are going tosee me engage in and talk to
others that don't look like meor may look the same.
(24:26):
Because, again, like I statedbefore, we're more alike than
different and I love to hear theintellect of others and that's
what inspires me, because I'mjust like oh, wow, that causes
me to think differently.
That takes me out of the box ofjust having a rigid way of
thinking, but it expands my mindof creativity where I'm like OK
(24:50):
, I can sing to this audiencebecause this audience is able to
relate to.
Oh, ok, they've experiencedsocial anxiety in a different
way, social anxiety in adifferent way.
I also have ADHD and I'm able to, you know, learn people even
(25:11):
when I forget their names oreven when my ADHD kicks in and
I'm, you know, forgettingcertain things, but I touch on
certain things that stands outabout someone and I'm like this
is how I will remember them,even when I don't remember their
name.
And one thing I remembered aboutDwight is that he had this calm
confidence and he was veryarticulate and he was very
(25:35):
present and I was like you knowwhat, dwight?
I would love to be on yourpodcast because you are
authentic.
You're not trying to sell mesomething, but I really feel the
authenticity in your heart.
You know, I really feel theauthenticity of your resilience
(25:56):
as a gay man, as a gayAfrican-American it seems like
you're mixed, I don't know, butI'm like I'm just feeling so
many things from our encounterright now and it's authentic and
I like to show up in ways thatI'm like.
They are genuine, they are kind, they are intellects, they are
(26:18):
creatives and they areattracting that and I want to be
a part of that, and so that'sall working together.
My mental health, my you know,my creativity in the arts
(26:39):
because I'm a musical theatermajor as well and then also
being able to relate and checkoff so many boxes is why I'm
here.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
That's, that's really incredible, and I can't tell
you that it's.
It's such a gift, so affirmingfor you to share what you've
said about us, for you to sharewhat you've said about us Along
(27:18):
those lines, I'm really curiousas to what the biggest thing
that you've embarked on in yourjourney to creativity.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
I love the fact that, through my creativity, people
can truly feel my heart, andit's not something that is just
performance, although I'm doingfrom within and it came from
showing up and not saying thatI'm this perfect human being,
but that I have so manychallenges that I'm overcoming.
And this is how I still continueto persevere in spite of and
that is throughout my singing,my acting, and there's a reason
(28:08):
that you're feeling somethingthat goes beyond oh okay, she's
just a great performer.
No, I'm feeling something elsethat I can't put my finger on,
and that is because I'm like,I'm able to feel your pain too.
I'm able to say that I see youbecause I see me.
(28:32):
I'm able to say I hear you,because I had to make sure that,
although your praise is a bonus, I'm like no, kiki, how do you
feel today?
How do you feel about yourself?
What affirmations are youspeaking to yourself daily, so
(28:52):
that when people hear your voice, they know that there's
something in her that I see inme, and that's how I want to
continue to empower othersthrough my creativity.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
I love that.
Is there anything that is onthe horizon, anything that would
be a milestone achievement thatyou're working toward?
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Yeah, so I'm working on a number of projects, but you
have to follow me to reallystay tuned, because I love
keeping the adrenaline rush inthe mystery of me.
So I am honing in on everythingthat I've mentioned and so that
(29:49):
is my singing.
That is the field of psychology, that is the field of advocacy,
that is in the field ofspirituality, that is in the
field of continuing to create anenvironment where I am
overcoming and that's the socialanxiety, that's the ADHD, that
is the therapy that I'm doing sothat I can heal, continue to
(30:13):
heal and help heal others.
So you have to follow me andstay tuned, because I may pop in
one day and pop out, but staytuned, because I may pop in one
day and pop out, but stay tuned.
So you've mentioned thepsychology study Is that for
(30:36):
your own value and benefit, oris there a plan to become a
therapist?
It's for my own value andbenefit first and foremost, so
that is the reason that I firstjoined.
That is the reason that I firstjoined.
I actually wanted to be in thefield of psychology and mental
health ever since I was a littlegirl, and so I also wanted to
be an artist, and I'm like whichone do I pursue first?
(30:58):
And so I pursued artistry firstand then had to take a break in
life and deal with life things.
And now I'm back.
But what brought me back waswanting to overcome my ADHD,
wanting to overcome socialanxiety, and wanted to attract
(31:19):
like-minded and like-mindedL-I-G-H-T.
Like-minded beings, and so Iwent back to school for that.
But then I'm all for people,and so it also was the caveat in
wanting to also be help othersas well.
(31:40):
And so I honestly don't knowwhat I'm going to do with having
this degree in clinicalpsychology, but I know that I
want to find holistic ways andalso, if needed, you know,
medicinal ways to help others intheir way of traumas and
(32:05):
resiliency.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
Well, there is definitely an intersection of
art and therapy.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
It is.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
It is there are options Absolutely, or you could
have it all.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
You sure can, you sure can, and that was the
choice of not allowing anyone toput me in a box.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
I love that and as you were talking about light
minded individuals, I could nothelp but think about how it's.
I think it's another way ofsaying how we like to work with
heart centered individuals.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Absolutely, absolutely, because we know that
it's coming from our ownresiliency.
It's coming from the thingsthat we are still overcoming and
advocating for ourselves andothers for and intuitively feel
(33:07):
from others, when they arealigning on the same path that
we are in, even if we're calledto do various things.
But one thing that I love whenwe're all in alignment is that
it just flows.
You know it flows and it'sthose divine timings where we
know that, oh, okay, even thoughwe're on a mission like this,
(33:32):
wasn't by coincidence orhappenstance that we saw this
thing, we met this person orwe're doing this thing because
we are all in alignment of okay,we were chosen to turn this
pain into our passion.
So I know it wasn't byhappenstance that we're here
(33:54):
today, dwight and Maddox.
I'm just grateful with a heartof gratitude.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
I agree, I think things unfold in a very magical
and mystical way that oftentimeswe can't quite see or don't
understand.
Oftentimes we can't quite seeor don't understand.
So I'd love to know, kiki, howhas, in all of your creative
journey singing, the dancing,the performing theater, all of
the things that you have doneand experienced how has or how
(34:21):
does community play a role inthat or does it?
You know, we talk to artiststhat are very solo and they
don't, they're not part of acreatives or art community or a
singing or musical community.
Speak to that for us.
Tell us a little bit about thatintersection in your personal
(34:43):
journey.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Sure, yeah.
So social anxiety, adhd,introvert, so I love spending a
lot of time alone.
It is when I'm the mostcreative, it is when I'm the
most productive, it is when I'mable to reflect in times of
(35:07):
introspection, to learn a lotabout myself and others.
But I think that there's somuch power in the collaboration
with community because it helpsus to be better than what we can
do by ourselves.
It helps us to gain insight onhow we can show up better for
(35:30):
ourselves so that we may be ableto be more impactful and more
influential to other people.
And that's by hearing others'perspectives, that's by hearing
the hearts of other people inways that we can show up for
others.
And I think that we can onlymultiply in numbers to push a
(35:53):
movement forward, to push ourcreativity forward.
And man, when we all cometogether and we have one mind
but also have different thingsthat we can contribute and bring
to this, one can contribute andbring to this one big mission.
(36:15):
I think that that's what allowsour light to shine even
brighter than it could if wewere trying to shine alone.
And so I think that communityplays a pivotal role in our
success because it allows us toexpand beyond our horizon and it
allows us to know how we can bemost effective for our
(36:35):
communities outside of ourcommunities and really be
countercultural, as we mentionedbefore, to a dying world, a
hurting world.
But in that dying and hurtingworld there's still that beauty
that comes from ashes that wecan allow people to see, from
(36:59):
the connections that we form incommunity.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
Very well said.
You know we're very, verypro-community because we believe
that we're just better together.
You know I'm never an advocateof saying that you need to do
every ounce of your creativitywith others in community,
because there are some peopleand certainly some forms of
creativity that are best done insolitude.
(37:26):
But I don't think that meansthat we have to do our whole
creative journey and life insolitude.
But I don't think that meansthat we have to do our whole
creative journey and life insolitude.
I think you can go off andwrite that essay in quiet
solitude, but maybe in theconversations that you have in
community you gain all kinds ofideas and great feedback about
(37:48):
what it is you are writing.
I've come to believe that whenwe are siloed with no community,
we are surviving, and when weare steeped in and involved in
community we are thriving.
There may be occasionalexceptions, but for the most
part occasional exceptions, butfor the most part not so much.
(38:16):
I think it's either survive orthrive.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
it's either, you know , solid oh not solitude, but
isolation or community yeah, andI love that you pointed out
isolation and solitude, right,and knowing that the dichotomy
of that is that solitude is thatthe healthy aspect of being
(38:40):
alone.
It is the time that you canreflect in introspection and
glean from ideas, from peoplethat has made an impact in your
life, but it also adds value tothe gifts that was already
indebted in you, and that'swhere that solitude comes from.
(39:01):
That's where those ideas andthose juices will start to flow.
But then, once you come out ofsolitude, that is when you can
join together with other likeand like-minded individuals to
be able to grow, to be able tobe a better you.
But then there's that isolationthat you mentioned, maddox,
(39:24):
where you're in survival mode inan unhealthy way, where you
think that I don't trust anybody, I don't need anybody, and we
know that that comes from abroken place.
We know that that comes from anegotistical place.
That comes from a place where,okay, there are people that may
(39:44):
have proven to be untrustworthy,them to be untrustworthy, but
then there are ways that you mayhave not shown up for yourself.
You know, and how can youunderstand your growth areas or
ways that you have grown if youdon't put yourself back out
there.
So, like you say to Maddox,there's so much power in
(40:07):
community and solitude, you know, versus isolation and trying to
survive.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
Yes, I think in the appropriate amounts.
Solitude is very, very healthy,and for introverts and even
ambiverts, it is the primary waywe charge our battery.
I'm an ambivert, but I thinkthere's no such thing as healthy
isolation.
Isolation is an unhealthy thing, and we are experiencing a
(40:40):
global epidemic right now ofisolation that we have basically
brought on ourselves, andpeople are so distracted they're
made, they're largely obliviousto it yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
And one of the things that I had to challenge myself
with is because I honestly cameout of a state of isolation.
At first it it turned intosolitude and but if you're not
careful, if you're not mindful,it can turn into unhealthy
(41:16):
isolation.
And it came from, you know,going through so many
transitions where it wasunbearable.
And just seeing where you knowunbearable and just seeing where
you know, the more you heal,the more you come out of the
state of people pleasing.
You know that can also changethe dynamic of relationships
(41:38):
that you thought you needed.
But then, as you continue togrow and learn more about
yourself and heal your innerchild of where it stemmed from,
then you go into this survivalmode of feeling like no one's
there for you and I have to dothis because no one's coming to
(41:59):
rescue you.
But then I had to realize likeokay, wait a minute.
How do I feel these feels?
How do I go through thesewounds and feel the pressures
and the pain of that?
But then how do I come out ofthat and heal but still be
(42:19):
healthy again, even when thefull dynamic of what I'm
manifesting in desire is notfully here?
And so that's when it graduallycame out of the isolation mode
that I was in.
When we come into that victimmentality I was a victim, so I
(42:39):
don't want to shamevictimization because I was a
victim of abuse.
But then I'm like, okay, how doI come out of this pity party
of regret or what I should havedone or what I shouldn't have
done or what I should have known, and extend myself that
compassion and that grace,because if I don't do that, then
(43:01):
I won't have a heart to do thatfor others, and come out of the
mode of that.
And how do I heal in a healthyway of that?
And how do I heal in a healthyway?
And so it started with thegroundwork of getting back to
what I love being a creativesinging, dancing, sharing what
I'm learning with others andthen bringing that to a
(43:21):
community where I'm like youknow what?
This is how I did thegroundwork of saying listen, I
was in isolation too.
I went through betrayals, Iwent through transitions, I went
through hate, I went throughprejudices.
I went through all of thosethings and I still face some of
those things and I still haveuncertainty about other things.
(43:44):
But this is what I'm doing I'msinging still, I'm dancing.
I'm back in school, you know,for clinical psychology, so I
can continue to heal and behealthy, so I can help others.
But I'm also learning andlistening to other people's
journeys and knowing that, oh mygosh, this is aligning, because
(44:05):
I'm like if I didn't stepoutside of isolation, I wouldn't
have been able to hear theirstory, they wouldn't have been
able to hear mine, they wouldn'tbe able to look at me and be
like, oh my gosh, you wentthrough that.
I'm like, yes, and I'm stillovercoming and I'm still rising
like a phoenix, but I'm stilluncertain about things.
(44:28):
But I'm still doing the work,and so I'm grateful to be here
because I'm like, I'm anintrovert, I have ADHD, I'm now
back a single mom, I am stillovercoming traumas, I'm still
healing, because healing is nota destination, it's a journey
and I'm still thriving.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
Yes, you know you talked about coming out of
isolation.
One of the for me, one of themost effective ways that I've
discovered to come out ofisolation.
Isolation is very much aboutit's all about me.
You know, we're so in our ownhead and our own experience and
what we're going through, thatwe can't see the proverbial
(45:12):
trees for the forest, and I findthat one of the ways that snaps
me out of that is to justmerely be of service to others.
Take the focus off of me, lookout among my circle of people
and friends and acquaintancesand find somebody that needs a
little bit of support and justbeing of service to them, and it
(45:37):
puts things back in perspectivein a magical way.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
Yeah, it's beautiful, maddox, because I really had an
experience like that yesterday.
I was in a rehearsal and I justreached out to someone and
walked up to them and I toldthem that they were doing a
great job and I really sharedwith them the things that I
(46:04):
observed and noticed about them,and so I put some tangible
things on, not just great job.
Here are the reasons why you aredoing a great job, that I see
you and their eyes brightened upas if they hadn't heard such a
(46:24):
thing in a really long time, andit brought it brought joy to my
heart because I saw that theireyes watered up and I'm like I
just made an observation and Iwanted to make an
acknowledgement of you aremaking a huge impact to the
(46:44):
sound of what is to bringeverything into light on that
performance day.
But I realized, oh my goodness,just to show someone that they
are seen and that they are heardand these are the ways that
they are making an impact issomething that goes profoundly a
(47:07):
long way with others, andthat's stepping outside of your
self-matics, as you mentioned,of saying that, okay, I put the
mask on myself and I'm good, buthow do I overflow that beauty,
that love, that resiliency thatyou're seen, you're loved,
(47:29):
you're heard.
Resiliency that you're seen,you're loved, you're heard,
you're understood, by goingoutside of the frame of me and
saying I see you too, and soI'll go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (47:40):
You're describing largely why we host this podcast
.
You know, there was a point inmy journey where I realized that
every human being has an innateneed to be seen and heard, and
this platform is about givingcreatives a voice, giving them a
safe place where they can beseen and be heard, and we hope.
(48:06):
Our hope is that it is anincredible gift.
That's what our desire and hopeis.
Dwight, you had something youwanted to say.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
Yeah, I just want to say that, as you're sharing what
it is that you've had toovercome, I know, without a
doubt, that there will be otherswho will listen, who will have
a strong sense.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
They'll be at a different point in their journey
than you are, but just from yousharing your story, it's going
to give them hope that they cansee the other side of it yes
yeah, that's the biggest thingis that I I hope that my story
(48:58):
gives them hope, but I believethat what you and and maddox are
bringing to the table isalready giving creatives hope,
because many a times what I'velearned by just listening to
others' stories is that, youknow, their creativity has given
them hope where their wordscan't really, you know, speak,
(49:22):
because oftentimes they havefelt shunned out or judged
because of who they are ormistreated because of the
lifestyle that they have chosen.
So I know that this podcastalone will give people hope, but
of course I want the hope thatis coming from within to give
(49:46):
hope to others, because I'm like.
That doesn't mean that I'vearrived, but I know that I'm
thriving and I know that hopecomes with faith and that's what
I know.
That goes hand in hand.
It's really knowing that, eventhough I can't put my hand on it
right now, I have hope thatit's coming.
(50:08):
I have hope that the minorsteps that I'm doing right now
is adding value to the biggerpicture.
But that comes with the dailythings that I'm choosing, and
most of the times that's amindset versus the tangible
things that I can hold on to andsay, oh, this is what makes me
happy because I realize that youcan be on the top of the
(50:31):
mountain one day and then thenext minute life will happen.
And it still challenges you tosay do you still have that hope,
even when you lose some thingsor you lose some people?
Or you know what you put all ofyour identity in is not coming
(50:51):
with you in the next season?
And so that's really what thisseason has given me is hope,
because I have gone throughchallenges that have caused me
to start all the way over over.
(51:15):
And when I say that I'm likegoing through a divorce, I have
a 19-year-old son that's goingthrough some challenges.
Because trying to embrace thisidentity of if I really show
people who I really am, willthey really accept me?
Talking to other young adultswhere they're like this is who I
am, but if I bring myself fullyto the table, hate will come my
(51:37):
way.
I won't have the friends that Ihave, I won't have the support
that I have.
That truly breaks my heartbecause, honestly, having a
heart of bravery to be yourselfunapologetically comes with
persecutions.
It comes with people notaccepting you for who you truly
(52:01):
are.
But do you accept you?
And when you accept you for whoyou truly are, other like
mindedminded and light-mindedbeings you will attract.
Speaker 3 (52:14):
Beautiful Kiki.
You certainly demonstratewisdom beyond your years.
I just want to say bravo forthat.
We are starting to run a littleshort on time, and so Mr Dwight
is going to deliver what wecall rapid fire questions, for
rapid fire answers.
Sound good, sounds great.
Speaker 2 (52:37):
All right.
So the first question what'syour favorite part of the
creative process?
Speaker 1 (52:48):
Healing, thriving and being unapologetically me.
Speaker 2 (52:56):
Beautifully said.
Speaker 3 (52:57):
Beautifully said, yes .
Speaker 2 (53:00):
Our next question is how do you define a creative
community?
Speaker 1 (53:12):
people that are weird , people that are vulnerable,
people that do not take life soseriously and people that are
showing up authenticallythemselves.
Speaker 2 (53:22):
I love that you're describing our people.
Speaker 3 (53:25):
You are.
Speaker 2 (53:28):
Now our final rapid fire question is if your
creativity had a theme song,what would it be?
Speaker 1 (53:43):
I have to steal this one from Alicia Keys, but this
girl is on fire.
This girl is on fire.
Yes, love it.
Speaker 3 (54:02):
Thank you for gracing us with that.
That's awesome, kiki.
This has been just amazing, andwe're ever so honored and
grateful that you came to shareyour story and your wisdom with
us and our listeners.
Speaker 1 (54:16):
Absolutely Such a pleasure, such a joy to be on a
thriving podcast.
Thanks, maddox and Dwight.
Speaker 2 (54:26):
Thank you.
Thank you, Kiki.
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