August 25, 2025 • 52 mins
What happens when you grow up as "the outcast among outcasts"? Photographer Curtis Tran joins us to share how being one of only three Asian students in his East Texas high school shaped his approach to creativity, community, and belonging.
Curtis takes us on a journey through his unique upbringing as a Vietnamese American in Nacogdoches, Texas, where his father—who narrowly escaped execution after the Vietnam War—brought their family to build a new life. This experience of rarely seeing himself reflected in his surroundings developed Curtis's remarkable ability to find authentic connections across demographic boundaries.
The conversation delves into why creatives naturally gravitate toward each other. "With creatives, fundamentally, there's this fundamental love that exists," Curtis explains. "Being a creative, there is a sense of wanting to express, wanting to communicate." This shared desire for expression creates a natural bridge between diverse individuals, making the creative community uniquely inclusive.
We explore Curtis's multifaceted creative journey from childhood drawing to his current photography work and future aspirations in cinematography. Rather than feeling pressure to "drop everything" for his creative pursuits, Curtis intentionally maintains his consulting career alongside his artistic endeavors. This balanced approach keeps his creativity fresh: "I like to keep my pure creative area at arm's distance because I essentially crave it... I'm not demanding myself to be creative 24/7."
Perhaps most poignant is Curtis's perspective on family disconnection. Raised to be "Americanized" by parents who feared the war-torn country they fled, Curtis experiences significant cultural and communication barriers with his family. This distance has made his chosen community connections all the more meaningful—a powerful reminder that sometimes our greatest challenges shape our most beautiful strengths.
Connect with us to join a thriving community of heart-centered creatives who celebrate the power of expression to bridge divides and heal humanity.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
so the where where I'm at and I honestly hyper
fixate on it, I it's.
It's a very creative journeythat I'm at like, looking at
these different businesses andthinking about what are these
different solutions, and it's avery creative process in itself.
So I feel as if I'm using mycreative brain there, but
specifically dropping everythingto pursue.
(00:31):
I think I I honestly like tokeep my a pure creative area,
like I like to keep it at arm'sdistance because I essentially
crave it, I think about it andit makes me, in my opinion, a
little bit more creative overalljust because I'm not having to.
(00:52):
I'm not demanding myself to becreative at 24-7.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Hello, this is Maddox and Dwight You're listening to
For the Love of Creativespodcast, and today we're here to
welcome our featured guest,curtis Tran.
Welcome, curtis.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Thank you guys so much for having me Glad you
could join us.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Sorry, we've been really looking forward to this.
Just so the audience knows, Iguess we've met Curtis at
Creative Mornings.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Multiple times yes.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
But we really met Curtis at the Art Boost here a
couple of weeks back, had anopportunity more to connect and
talk with him and, yeah, thatwas where the idea to have you
come and be a featured guestcame from.
And so here we are.
So I think I'm going to leadoff with something that's near
and dear to my heart and it's alittle different than what we
(02:06):
normally do.
But I know that just fromtalking to you and reading your
bio that you're very, verycommunity-oriented and I would
love to maybe hear the originstory of that.
You know we're going to talk alot about your creative journey,
your creative life, but when itcame to creativity and
(02:29):
community, tell us a little bitabout how you.
I mean I can tell you have apassion for it in your writing.
Tell us where that was born.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Yeah, sure, so obviously, through my creative
journey.
I'm typically known as aphotographer, right Specifically
at Creative Mornings.
That's how y'all met me and Ilove that you mentioned that we
specifically talked more atArtBoost, because I didn't have
a camera in my hands and sowhenever I don't have a camera,
you could probably have moreconversation out of me, because
(03:02):
I feel as if whenever I have thecamera, I'm just constantly
looking like, oh my gosh, thisangle or shot could be nice.
But so the origin of communitya little bit of backstory for me
is that a lot of my upbringing,growing up, I was always shown
the opposite of that.
I would definitely say so.
(03:24):
So I was always the way.
How I would describe mycommunity was that I essentially
was the outcast of the outcast,and the reason why I would say
that is because, so, my familycame from vietnam three over
three decades ago.
They were the last remnants ofthe vietnam war and my father,
(03:45):
whenever he came here, wasactually supposed to be.
He was supposed to be executed,and because he was one of the
last um, the last bits of thevietnam army that was able to
speak about democracy andbecause of the reagan amnesty,
he was able to immigrate here tothe states and he took me,
basically had me and my brothersand my family at, at
(04:07):
Nacogdoches, texas is where I'mfrom.
So, for the fact, I'm not evena Dallas local, I do live here
now, but I spend most of my timein East Texas and, to paint a
little bit of a better picture,I specifically graduated with a
with a class of around 400people 450, 420.
And I was probably like one outof three Asians, and so there
(04:32):
was every walk of life exceptfor the one that was similar to
mine, and because of that Ididn't necessarily.
Whenever I had a community backthere, it wasn't one that looked
like me, it wasn't one thattalked like me or sounded like
me, it was always anamalgamation of different people
.
And in turn I've learned andhave been shown what it's like
(04:57):
to not fit in, and if anything,I think it's it's now it's
weirder for me to fit in.
If anything, it's weirder tosometimes not have those walls
or anything like that.
But I now make it a journey towhere, every time I speak to
someone, I automatically look atwell, how, how do they carry
themselves?
What is in their heart like?
What do they bring to to theroom and then I will then decide
(05:21):
are you my, are you mycommunity, are you my person?
And so a bit of a long-windedanswer.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Oh, you know.
I love that, though, curtis,because what you're describing
what I'm translating out of whatyou're saying is you've gone
from feeling like you reallydidn't belong anywhere to now.
It's a choice.
You are very discriminating anddiscerning and you choose where
(05:47):
you want to belong and whereyou don't want to belong, and
I've walked that path myself.
So this I think we've beentalking about this a lot in the
last few days, dwight and I andI think that we always hear
psychologists say that I'm notgood enough is pretty much a
universal wound.
(06:07):
Almost all of us have that, andI think I don't belong is a
second.
I mean, it's a runner up.
I mean there's been so many ofus.
If we're the least littledifferent in any way, it doesn't
matter whether we're adifferent race or we're a
different size or we're adifferent sexual orientation.
(06:32):
I've certainly experienced alot of not belonging, and you
know, I think the big thing forme was realizing that I had put
that in place myself.
It was an unconscious choicethat I had made.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Well, and, to be fair , it's something that's modeled.
I mean, one of the first gamesthat we all get to play is
musical chairs, and that's justformalizing, edging someone out.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah, do they still play that in schools?
think about it.
Yeah, I remember.
I don't know if they still playthat in schools or not, but I
certainly remember it when I wasa kid.
Certainly remember it, yeah,and, and you know if you were
yeah, I was never the fast oneso so I was the quickest one to
get to my chair I can speak tothat.
(07:29):
Well, tell us a little bit more.
You know that not belonging andnow you look at people and you
assess it instead of a groupthing.
I get that you're accessing iton a one-on-one person, but how
does that affect your desire forcommunity?
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think that I've always haveseen the discrepancies within
different individuals, like,maybe, like, as like.
How fundamentally strong isthis foundation of this
relationship?
Politically, romantically, it'sjust, you know, what do we use
to base it on?
And sometimes it could be ahobby, sometimes it could be
(08:16):
shared interest.
And you know, I think what Iwant to tie back to is that I,
whenever I kept thinking aboutover the weekend who truly is my
community and I, and honestlykept going back to creatives.
Creatives are specifically mycommunity because there's,
whenever I go through thesedifferent demographics could be
sexual orientation, could berace, could be religion,
demographics, different jobsectors or industries.
(08:39):
There's always the differentnuances.
You know where you have tobalance on this tightrope, on
how you navigate thatconversation.
But I think, with creatives,fundamentally, there's this
fundamental love that exists andI think it really just goes
back to expression andultimately, I think, being a
creative, there is a sense ofyou you want to express, you
(09:01):
want to communicate and therehas to be someone on the
receiving end to receive thatcommunication.
And whenever it comes to how Icarry this one-on-one
conversations, like I honestlylike it could.
Sometimes it could be deeperthings, but sometimes it could
just be simple things like areyou asking me questions or am I
(09:24):
just asking, do you do?
I know your entire life storyand you don't even know what's
my last name.
You know stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
That's a real thing too.
I've certainly had my share ofone-sided friendships, oh yeah,
and and and primaryrelationships.
It's, it's a real, real thing.
You know, you spoke a minuteago about the demographic and
I'm going to inject just alittle bit because we're all
about that.
You know, we pay attention todemographics, but in a very
(09:58):
different way than mostorganizations or communities do.
We pay attention todemographics in that we want a
wide variety of demographics inwhat we're building, and so it's
not we're looking for, you know, white 40 to 60 year old people
or anything like that.
It's, we're looking for thisbroad swath of all ages in all
(10:22):
demographics, of all ages in alldemographics.
But we do focus onpsychographics, and the number
one thing we look for inpsychographics is and we call it
out in all of our marketing andour conversation we seek
heart-centered creatives.
We've both discovered that I'vebeen creative my whole life.
I was a hairdresser and makeupartist for 40 years and I've
(10:45):
done all kinds of creative stuff.
I've played the piano and I'vesang and, oh my gosh, I just
can't even name all the thingsI've done.
But I never, ever, have beenpart of a body of people that
all said I'm a creative, youknow, until the last couple of
(11:06):
years, and we kind of stumbledinto this.
I don't really believe incoincidences, I think it's all
you know, kind of on purpose,but to us it felt like one day
we just looked around and wewere surrounded by creatives and
we were kind of digging it andwe have found that, yes, they
(11:26):
are our people.
But we've also discovered thatwhen you look at creatives, most
of the time it is very diversedemographically and they all
play well together.
And I think you were at ourspeed connections thing we did
at you know, I call that outwhere I said you know, the thing
(11:47):
that brings us together is ourlove of creativity and it's just
, it's remarkable.
I'm not saying that I don'toccasionally meet a creative.
That is not my people.
I do, I do, but it's theexception, not the rule.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
One of the things that you hit upon when you were
just talking about yourexperience and how you were
drawn to creatives was how thereis an innate openness, and it's
something that you felt, butI've I've discovered that that's
something that's confirmed inin science.
(12:32):
A common trait that creativesshare is openness to new
experiences.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
I love that.
I mean there's there has to benew ways to express to.
I always so y'all know that Ihave this day job and consulting
and so on, and you know we haveall these different professions
or hobbies that pay the bills,or X, y and Z, but at the end of
the day, being a creative Ialways describe it as like this
is what keeps me sane, this iswhat keeps me in.
(13:04):
Love is just the experience ofhumanity in itself, and
creatives are people that I willdefinitely say.
I'm a big fan of the show, so Ilove how you guys have
navigated differentconversations and that I really
do want to say that being acreative is someone that just
(13:24):
like it can really just beanyone like as soon as you just
have a creative thought, you area creative right then and there
, because you're open, you wantto create, you are experiencing
what makes life so beautiful andand it can be expression
through creation, it's awesome I.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
I think that part of what makes us so wonderful is
that in order to be reallyconnected to that creative part
of ourselves, we have to bereally connected to whatever
higher source it is that webelieve in, and I think that for
me, I know that that higherbeing is a being of love and it
(14:03):
just all fits to me.
You know, because we're soconnected, the creativity is the
pretty much the conduit betweenthat higher self, or higher
power, and self, and along withthat conduit of creativity comes
a lot of cool stuff, you know,like love and compassion and
(14:26):
empathy, and you know I can'timagine now that there's very
many people that haven't heardme say it's our belief that
creatives are the people thathave the power.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Whether we'll use it or not is another story, but the
creative community are the bodyof people on this planet that
have the power to heal humanityI'm really curious about some of
the earliest experiences thatyou've had, uh, being that you
had to deal with being different, not seeing yourself, uh, when,
(15:04):
whenever you would, you know,just go and try to take part in
things that were local.
Um, how did, how did that playout for you in just finding your
way and, um, navigating life?
What was that like?
Speaker 1 (15:22):
So I love that you asked that because you know I I
stayed in east texas all the waythrough college and ethically
it's it's been years.
So I've I've had so many newexperiences to to where it is
slowly just becoming not myentire experience but fractional
proportionate.
So so obviously I was incommunities to where I mean
(15:47):
sometimes it wasn't just beingAsian, sometimes I was the only
person of color in their roomand that would happen like 99%
of the time.
So I was very used to that andthey.
It was interesting because,although these people accepted
me in the room per se, but youknow, they had all these
different stereotypes or stigmaswith me and I think something
(16:11):
that I hate and I absolutelylike will spend probably the
rest of my life trying to changethis.
But growing up in there, likein 90% of the conversations I
would have, it would somehowrelate back to my skin and back
in East Texas.
They they're very, very curiousand sometimes it's a place of
(16:32):
hate, sometimes a place ofcuriosity and but sometimes it's
naive and we had to go about it.
But a great example is thatit's like oh, dwight, it's very
good to meet you, so what areyou?
And it would literally beeither the second or third
sentence that they would speakto me.
And so in that it's it'sinteresting because I
(16:53):
essentially became verydesensitized to it, to the of my
initial reaction to it, butthen I became a lot more attuned
of basically digging deeper ofwhere does that place come from
and where they ask thosequestions, because I will say
sometimes I will definitely sayany sexist, it wasn't all hate
per se, but it really just theywere very naive.
(17:14):
There wasn't many people thatlooked like me, so they were
just genuinely curious.
They just did not ask questionslike hey, like they'll ask me
questions like what kind of ofAsian are you?
What kind of Chinese are you?
What like what are you?
And they would speak to me likean animal sometimes, but maybe
they just didn't really know anyother different way.
And so I kind of made it mymission in East Texas to really
(17:37):
be heavy on education.
So specifically my alma mater,stephen of Austin, I created an
organization called Organizationof Asian Excellence and it was
specifically focused oneducating the communities
through my experience and it wasactually made in response to
(18:01):
COVID-19.
So it where I was seeing peoplelike me get discriminated, mass
crimes and mass murders.
It says it.
I was anxious the entire time,and so I.
My change was that I created awhole organization and led a
bunch of asians, like the fewasians that that existed at at
sfa, my alma mater, and we, wemade some change and it's funny
because, uh it, you know,everyone pretty much enjoyed me
(18:25):
and I was.
I was part of the officeadmissions program at SFA and
I'm sure you may haveexperienced this before where,
oh my gosh, you were the tokenperson of color, so we're going
to put you on all of ourpromotional material.
So it's funny because there'syou can go all around texas and
(18:46):
if you see any sort of sfamaterial and there's an asian
guy on there, 99 of time it'smost likely me.
And it's so interesting becauseI did all this change in
response to how I grew up, andit's it, I would say, like the
sfa probably had like 0.01 of ofAsians, but as soon as I
graduated, I guess it workedbecause I 0.01 probably wanted
(19:08):
to what like 0.05 or 1%.
But yeah, it's a change, it wassomething.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Yeah, you, you were the representation that you
needed.
Yeah, exactly, you were therefor somebody else.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Well, and you never know, as time moves on, how that
ripple effect will changethings.
You know, we don't know thatripple effect.
We know it exists but we don'tusually follow it to see exactly
how things changed.
You know, you spoke a fewminutes ago, curtis to the
(19:43):
curiosity.
You spoke a few minutes ago,curtis to the curiosity, and I
myself have all of my life beenfascinated by people that are
different than me.
I'm very curious myself and Ilove different cultures and I
love different traditions andthings, and it's just such a
fascination and I've learned,you know, to not ask those
(20:07):
questions, even though my desirefor the answers is from a clear
, you know, loving place.
I just, you know, life isreally boring if everybody that
is around you is just like you.
That's what I don't understandabout the set of white people
(20:29):
that really want everything tojust be white.
Oh my God, I don't get it.
It sounds horribly boring to me.
You know, all my life I've hadfriends from different
backgrounds and it's what makeslife interesting, but I don't
(20:50):
know.
There's something about it thatI wish I could just snap my
fingers and have it be different.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Absolutely I will say I meet individuals like you,
maddox, to where you know yougrew up around diversity and
it's not necessarily a questionlike when your your questions
purely come from a place ofcuriosity and like for.
For you it's more of like.
I see it as like you're justcurious about my story, about
(21:17):
how I live, versus.
Sometimes it can be like let'sdissect some of these
stereotypes or statements I mayhave about you and let's see how
true they are.
Like let's put them of thesestereotypes or stigmatize I may
have about you know, see howtrue they are.
Like let's put them to the teststress test.
But you know I wish I met morepeople like you.
Max, correct Growing up, but Itry to make my entire community
down in Dallas to hang out withpeople like y'all.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
And the diversity all these years has been by my
choice because my family was notthat way.
You know, I I just struck.
I was married to a female in myearly 20s and I lived in a
small town in central Texas.
We're talking 1977.
(21:59):
I married an Hispanic woman,which was something that just
wasn't really done back then andmy family never even questioned
it.
I brought her home andintroduced her and they fell in
love with her and of course, youknow my family.
When I brought my first manhome, he was Hungarian from well
(22:26):
, yeah, no, his parents werefrom Hungary, but he was not.
He had grown up in SouthAmerica, was not?
He had grown up in SouthAmerica.
But my family just welcomed himright in and loved him too, but
they were open.
But if you looked at all myfamily, they're all hanging out
with white people for the mostpart.
I'm the oddball in my familythat has just embraced all of
(22:51):
the differences because I findit so beautiful.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Yeah, absolutely Dwight.
What was it like for yougrowing up?
Because was it more of anoriginal relationship.
Was it always like?
What was that like for you?
Speaker 3 (23:16):
Well, ironically, I grew up in what would become a
majority minority city and Igrew up in grand prairie and, um
, it was still very much likewhat you would, what's depicted
in the, the teen movies, youknow, american pie or mean girls
, that that was kind of theexistence.
That was real.
That was my experience.
So I I felt like there was alot that was on display and
(23:41):
represented, and even the, themore uncomfortable parts.
You know I'm what.
I was the black face in thecrowd, the, the token black
friend, and so.
So I felt that at a lot, of, alot of times and it was, it
could be uncomfortable at timesand there were instances where
there was I experienced subtleracism and, uh, occasionally,
(24:06):
when I, when I would go back toEast Texas to visit my
grandparents, um, not so subtleracism.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
So it was it, it was interesting yeah, I mean Dwight,
I remember you and I connectedof our backgrounds in East Texas
, so you know like whenever it'slike they, sometimes people
would literally open upconferences like oh my gosh,
dwight, this is this, this is myasian friend curtis like they,
(24:35):
will they like they make it'slike it's like.
Is that all I am to you?
Speaker 2 (24:42):
that.
You know.
The sad thing about it is theyprobably don't realize and don't
intend to be that way.
I think there is intentionalracism, and then I think there's
racism that's just ignorance,and although it's still racism,
let's call a spade a spade.
But I myself have said somehorribly racist things in my
(25:10):
life because I didn't know theywere racist.
I literally didn't know, andwhen somebody enlightened me I
was just mortified that that hadcome out of my mouth.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
I've experienced it on many different levels and
it's one of those things whereif you're looking for something
bad, you're going to find it inanything.
And there have been thoseinstances where someone would
say to me, you know, especiallyas a child growing up, oh my you
, you are surprisinglyarticulate and thank you, yep,
(25:46):
thank you, I think.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Oh yeah, I've made some horrible faux pas in my
life, but um, I've lived to tellabout it.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
nobody's killed me yet well, life shouldn't
necessarily like whenever you goback to in terms of expression.
Sometimes our expression reallyis coming from a place with the
limited experience and knowledgethat we may have, and I will
never I've met, like I'm used to, super conservative rednecks,
(26:19):
hicks and so on, like I it'sfunny because I find a lot more
like I'm just so used to themversus like the city folk here
in Dallas at times.
But the thing is is that it iswhen it it not all mistakes or
hiccups have to define you, butthe way how you carry yourself
(26:40):
after moving forward.
It is okay to acknowledge thatI was wrong and I wasn't
educated before and I thinkthat's something that
fundamentally goes back tocreatives.
That sometimes it goes.
You know they will, they willspeak and discuss about things
and express and portraysometimes events, different
(27:01):
mentalities, philosophies and soon, and it's just like kind of
like going back to like just theopenness and that's something
that I think fundamentally.
Whether or not like if someonecan see the most PC thing to me
is not what I most, what I careabout most typically me as an
(27:22):
individual, just because I can'treally control, or no one can
really influence, whatinformation that they were given
previously, but but they'lltake this new information,
experience and how to moveforward with it.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
I think that that's what makes it more important
well and and you know how wedefine pc changes like on a
really rapid rate.
So it's like what you think'spc you find like last week is
this week.
It isn't so pc.
That really messes me up.
But so let's shift gears alittle bit.
(27:54):
I want to hear more about theactual creativity part of your
journey.
I'd love to know how old youwere and what it was that tipped
you off where you went.
Oh, I'm, I'm creative.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
I that moment when the light bulb went off uh, I
don't, I I probably can't thinkof a time because I think, uh,
if you find me on facebook andyou like, just scroll far enough
, you can probably just find.
Like I used to draw growing up.
I remember I my, when my fatherwas a, was a soldier, so I used
(28:32):
to be as obsessed with the armyI think most kids and most boys
, specifically in East Texas,were just like oh yeah, I want
to become a soldier and shootall these cool jets or whatever.
But you know, I used to draw itand and so, specifically
through then I've for me.
So for for now, people know meas a photographer and absolutely
(28:55):
I love it.
I'm fine with that.
But my creative journey it's,it's always constantly changing
and I never know if maybetomorrow I'll, maybe I'll become
a writer or I'll become like,uh, maybe a cinematographer,
we're not sure.
Like I used to draw growing up.
I used to do poetry in the inthe seventh grade and then I
(29:17):
specifically did band, so I wasobsessed with music production
for a tiny bit and then now I'mreally big into photography.
But in all honesty, I'm gettingclose to like I want to look
into cinematography and andcreating videos and, and.
So you, I just you just neverknow.
So when I I think I've justbeen creative my entire life, I
(29:39):
just am not sure.
What am I going to hyper fixatejust yet?
Speaker 2 (29:43):
You know it's.
It's almost easier to giveyourself the label creative than
it is to give yourself thelabel photographer, because you
know the creativity covers itall, and then you can do all
those.
I I love the multi-facetedaspect of it.
I think that's amazing, so youdon't ever have time to get
(30:04):
bored with anything absolutelymy uh, I'm actually currently in
the process of doing somerebranding.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
I'm working with this amazing graphic designer and
that's helping me with branding,and so they're not, I think,
graphic designers such a limitedthat my basically my brand team
essentially and you know, theykept, they kept asking like okay
, well, if you do photography,then, like, maybe we need to
hone down and like, speak aboutyour niche and say that you do
(30:33):
photography.
It's like, well, you know, Ithink that's cool and I agree on
that.
Like you know, I talk aboutthat in my day job.
Like, hey, what is your niche?
What markets are you in?
Speaker 2 (30:55):
But in my head as a creative I was like but I don't
know if I'm going to dophotography like forever.
You know, it's interesting thatyou say that, because one of
the things that I I learnedsometime in the last couple of
years which was really powerful.
It was a marketing person thatsaid picking a niche doesn't
mean that's the only people youcan serve.
Picking a niche is for thepurpose of knowing who you
market to.
You can serve anyone that youwant in any capacity you want,
(31:17):
but your marketing vehicle needsto be, you know, niched,
otherwise it's too broad andeverybody wants to work with a
specialist.
You know, if you have heartproblems, you don't go to a
dermatologist or a GP doctor.
You go to a dermatologist or aGP doctor, you go to a
cardiologist, and that's truefor almost everything nowadays.
(31:40):
We want that specialist.
So yeah, just because youmarket to it doesn't mean it's
who you serve, particularly youserve anybody.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
So what was that like for y'all?
Have you guys so for you,maddodox, I know that you're a
hairdresser, singer, and nowyou're doing community creation.
Like tell me a little bit moreabout y'all's like creative
journey.
What was that like for you guys?
Speaker 2 (32:06):
well, you know, I guess I got deemed as the
creative one in the family whenI was a kid because I was always
decorating the house.
You know, I was like mom wouldsay oh my God, you take the same
tired Christmas decorationsevery year and you make the
house look different.
And she didn't know I did that.
But yeah, I just was alwaysmaking something, or it wasn't
(32:28):
necessarily art.
I mean, I took art classes inmiddle school, but I've been
probably more involved in art inthe last few years than I have
been the whole rest of my life.
But I've always gravitated.
I've done photography and avariety of different things.
(32:52):
I'm right now I'm like oddlydrawing a blank.
I love to entertain and thatcertainly has an artful quality
to it.
Oh yeah, and it's, it's shifted.
You know the way I used toentertain and the way I
entertain now it's.
It's much more streamlined, youknow, and and it has more of a
(33:16):
purpose rather than justbringing people together, it's
bringing people together with aspecific outcome.
That makes sense.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Yeah, I definitely would say so, definitely will
say so.
Whenever you did the, theworkshop with us at art boost it
, I love that you were able tosay that, like typically,
creatives can be moreintroverted at times, but and
you, we all came out of it withthe, with the want and the
better ability to connect, andso I could never see it like
(33:51):
from even the, the places thatI've seen you at, it's like it's
you are cultivating anenvironment, but there's a.
It's very intentional and Ilove it thank you.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
That means a lot, curtis.
We, we love what we do and and,and, even though sometimes we
get really frustrated and it canbe really challenging, our, our
heart is both of us is verymuch in the bringing people
together, and and not just anypeople.
Now we really are in in lovewith the creatives community,
like we live for it, we eat, webreathe, we sleep, you you name
(34:28):
it, it's, it's all aboutcreativity.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
I love it.
All right, Joey, I want to hearyour journey.
I want to hear it Sure.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Yeah, I had the fun experience of growing up more or
less as an only child for allintents and purposes.
I have two much youngersiblings, but they're kind of
the second set.
The second set and, in additionto being the only child in the
(34:59):
house, my, my parents worked alot and they they split up, so I
had to find ways to entertainmyself and that meant that I had
a lot of time alone and I hadto fill my days and so I had to
get really creative aboutbuilding a pretty rich inner
world and I would just go thereat will.
I spent a lot of time outsideand I did a lot of creative, you
(35:23):
know, artsy things.
Growing up.
I drew as a small child and it'skind of one of those things
that that more or less went away.
Those things that that more orless went away, like I, uh,
about a year or two ago, uh,maddox and I went to a drawing
class and uh, I could uh see howquickly it came to me, um,
(35:44):
because it was just likesomething that I'd I'd let go
and, um, it was uh kind of afamiliar friend and, like you, I
was involved in band, I playedmusic and it was kind of a nice
(36:04):
way to build community there,because I remember building a
lot of relationships with theother players and really getting
a feel for how that cametogether.
And other than that it's justbeen.
My creativity has come in theway that I had to survive.
(36:26):
One of the unfortunate thingsabout my journey was that there
was some unnatural friction thatI went through with my, my
family, and from the age of 17up to my enlistment in the army
at the age of 23, I was more orless figuring out how to make it
(36:50):
on my own and that at timesrequired some extreme creativity
because, as you know, at theage of 17, you can't sign
contracts for things like alease for an apartment and it.
It required having to getcreative to try to make sure
(37:11):
that the basics are taken careof, having to get creative to
try to make sure that the basicsare taken care of.
And, uh, having had those scars, it's, it's made it to where
I'm pretty resilient when itcomes to a lot of challenges.
I my my breaking point is a lot.
Um, I I'd say I'm able to putup with a lot more than most
(37:32):
people would try to run away andhide and give up on.
I know that there's somethingto be said about having that
perseverance, that willingnessto see something through to the
end.
That makes it so that wheneveryou're on the other side of it,
(37:53):
you enjoy it that much more.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
I love that.
I you know I typically don'thear many creatives.
Typically the the sentimentsthat I hear is you know I'll
start something, but thensomething else will come in.
I'll hyper fix it.
So it was like I've a hundredprojects going on at the same
time.
So it's kudos to you thatyou're one of the few creatives
where, like, if I startedsomething, I'm going to see it
(38:17):
through.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
I can be a little obsessive.
When he gets, he gets focusedand I it's not like anything
I've ever seen, like I don'tknow how he does it.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
I'm going to sit down with you and get a coffee and
like, help me, help me study, orjust lock in, and these
projects I love it.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
Yeah, some of it's, some of it really boils down to,
um, what's necessary forsurvival, because, um, one of
the things that I had to well, II discovered, um was that I can
I can be a little bitoverwhelmed in the scene where
there's too much happening andpeople naturally filter out a
(39:06):
lot of things, and, for whateverreason, I've got this vigilance
that makes it to where I haveto really focus.
Otherwise, I I'm justoverwhelmed and I could lose
consciousness, so that that kindof helps Well yeah, he's got a
(39:27):
little little bit of anincentive to stay focused,
because he does.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
He literally passes out, loses consciousness if he
gets overstimulated.
Yeah, so we have a few minutesleft and I have one more thing
I'd like to.
We've already talked about somecultural stuff, but we've had
such a wide variety of guestsfrom varying different cultures
and some of the most interestingconversations we've had has
(39:54):
been about how their familiesresponded when they started
showing up as a creative, as achild, whether the family was
supportive or not supportive, orthe messages that you got.
All these stories have been sorich and and yeah, I'll, I'll
stop there.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Oh, okay, so if, if anyone listening knows anything
about me, uh, so my, when itcomes to my family, it's very,
very complicated and that it alljust, it's as simple, simple I
would say crutch.
That leads to just a multitudeof problems, but it's just a
(40:36):
language barrier, basically, andlike, although like so for my
family, like they can, they canspeak vietnamese to me and I'll
and I'll like, understand andI'll and I'll respond back to
english.
But for me they wanted me to beamericanized so much they were
so afraid of of the war-torncountry that they left that I
they made sure I didn't knowvietnamese growing up and but
(40:59):
obviously and honestly theyregret it and so now I'm taking
two lessons and trying to changethat.
But specifically when it comesto my creative journey and how
they respond to it, I don'tthink they really know and
understand, to be honest,because, like I've shown them,
they've seen my pictures andthey know that I do X, y and Z,
but I don't think they trulyunderstand that I am like
(41:20):
full-fledged creative.
I think what you might find in alot of different communities
are similar to mine.
It's kind of they really just,they really filter out a lot of
information.
So really, they really onlywant to know if I'm just eating
(41:41):
and am I making money and that'sit.
So it's, you know, and honestly, my family is very detached
from the people that I talk to,what I do for fun, my favorite
color and so on, and I think fora lot of people that may seem
as a maybe a very dishearteningthing, but that's just how my
(42:01):
family operates and so, andspecifically for us, yeah, they
just don't know that I'm acreative.
They they know I've donepeople's photo shoots and so on.
They've seen it like we I'vedone family friends, but they're
just like okay, I think curtissometimes presses a button.
I think that's that's what theysee they don't really get that.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
It's a bigger part of your life than the day job.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
Wow, yeah, I mean, that's a little different than
any of the other stories we'vegotten.
So that's, you know, anotherfacet on the diamond of life.
You know, wow, how is that?
I mean, I know that's allyou've ever known.
You know they're your parentsand it's all you've ever known.
(42:49):
But when you see or hearstories about other people whose
families take all this interestin what they're doing, how do
you, how do you experience that?
How is that for you?
Speaker 1 (43:03):
Sure, so I would say so.
Me and my therapist talk aboutthis all the time because my
current partner they are likethey, my partner calls their mom
like every single day, and forme I probably talk to my mom
maybe once every two weeks andthat's very normal for us.
I would say that if I startedcalling her more, my mom would
(43:26):
probably like like are you okay?
Like it's like you're callingme too much at this point, and
so I will say so.
I did in the dating that I didgrowing up.
I would go to thanksgivings andChristmas.
Like my family doesn't reallycelebrate many holidays, and so
(43:48):
I think the only holiday wereally celebrate is specifically
Chinese New Year or Lunar NewYear.
That's the only thing wecelebrate.
Like we don't even celebrateeach other's birthdays, and so I
was like I know my story isvery different, my experience is
very different, but it's I kindof just see it and just say was
like.
I know my story is verydifferent, my experience is very
different, but it's I kind ofjust see it and just say that
like this is just you know how,how, what I've seen and what I
(44:09):
know, and but I've experiencedthanksgivings and Christmases
with other different families.
I've seen the differentdynamics, different traditions.
It's all very interesting to me, uh.
But you know, I think I thinkit'll be interesting that if I
ever have a family to kind of doa business, like okay, we can,
like I guess we can doThanksgiving and Christmas, so
(44:31):
all this stuff, so it's so Ireally do emphasize to people
that these day-to-dayinteractions that I have with
you guys, they guys, they mean alot more to me than the average
person and it's everything.
Community is literallyeverything.
And so just because for methere's not a lot of celebration
that really exists, period, andyou know, whenever I think the
(44:57):
way how I've kind of seen it,what I've told my therapist,
like I think it's kind of like asense of like there are parties
happening all over.
I'm just not invited, and butwhenever I have been part of
these parties or whatever, I sawthe Christmas tree or whatever.
It's just kind of like, oh, youknow it's cool, but it's just,
it's definitely just not how Igrew up.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
Yeah, well, you know, on, on some level there's a
certain level of freedom in whatyou're describing, you know,
because so many people arebeholden to go to all of those
family gatherings, whether theywant to or not, and sometimes
family are not the people wereally want to hang out with.
You know we have a chosenfamily for that very, very
(45:43):
reason.
So you know, it's all in theway you look at it, because some
people could certainly see thatyou have a level of freedom in
the way that you were raised andnot so much emphasis put on
close knit family.
All the way you look at it.
Yeah, no, I love it close knitfamily, all in the way you look
(46:04):
at it.
Yeah, no, I love it.
So I'm going to pull the bigquestion out now.
Are you ready for the bigquestion?
What do you got for me In yourcurrent creative life?
What is like here now, realtime?
What is the biggest pain point?
Is the biggest pain point, inother words, that challenge that
, if it were solved, would be agame changer for your creative
(46:27):
journey, or creative life.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
It probably would be.
It probably would legitimatelyjust be time and money.
I think so and just because forme, when it comes to whenever I
do my photo shoots or anythingwith individuals, it's it's
really just, you know, I willsit down and show them all the
(46:53):
pictures, I'll sit through withthem and I'll go through all the
conversations.
So I mean, it's the way how Icarry my business.
It's a very, very lengthyprocess and I'm totally fine
with that.
And but ultimately it takes meaway from my, my day job.
And so whenever and alsowhenever I say the sentiments of
money, like I think I think somany creatives very similar to I
(47:13):
would say that like, ideally,we would love to, you know, drop
everything and pursue being aportrait artist, or you know,
like, travel and do X, y and Z,but I think it's more just
logistics.
For me it really just boilsdown to that.
But you know, whenever I makethe sentiments that like hey,
(47:34):
like I want to do cinematography, I'll be honest with you guys.
Like, of course, the passionand creative field that I picked
is a very tech and expensiveone.
So it's like, if I want to getinto cinematography, I want to
buy these cinema cameras.
I have to be ready to drop likethousands and thousands of
dollars and like, although likemaybe I do have that money or
(47:55):
the discretionary income, or thediscretionary income, but like,
as I've kind of told you guys,my consulting job, it's just
like I think about all like howdoes that affect my cash flow,
and so on.
It's like I'm at this very formy creative journey, I'm very
(48:16):
like very free, and so on.
And then the other side is likeI'm a very type A individual.
So it's like I kind of maybe Iovercomplicate things, maybe my,
my thing is my pain points.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
I overcomplicate things too much well, that could
be said of all of us, yeah, sodo you see a time in your life
where you might leave theconsulting and go full-time with
creativity?
Is that a dream or a desire?
Speaker 1 (48:40):
In all honesty, specifically where I'm at, I
actually think that it'sspecifically my calling.
So the where I'm at, I honestlyhyper fixate on it.
It's a very creative journeythat I'm at like, looking at
these different businesses andthinking about what are these
different solutions, and it's avery creative process in itself.
So I feel as if I'm using mycreative brain there, but
(49:04):
specifically dropping everythingto pursue.
I think I I honestly like tokeep my a pure creative area,
like I like to keep it at arm'sdistance because I essentially
crave it, I think about it andit makes me, in my opinion, a
little bit more creative overalljust because I'm not having to.
(49:28):
I'm not demanding myself to becreative at 24, seven, and so
you know.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
I've, I've given you gold.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
Yeah, that's gold.
I like where I'm at.
I like my relationship toeverything.
So far, I honestly wouldn'tchange much with my day-to-day
right now.
Speaker 2 (49:45):
You know you're the second person that has said I
made it a point, I believe thatI could have two passions.
Exactly, he's an actor and heis a tech person, with Microsoft
, I believe.
Okay, there you go.
And he loves both and he didn'thave any intention of giving
either one up because they feeddifferent parts of his soul.
(50:06):
And I thought how brilliant isthat you know to have
intentionally chosen twopassions, rather than thinking
you can, you know, we're, ashuman beings, we're just so,
either or people and it reallycan be an and and you found the
and and that's just brilliant.
Speaker 1 (50:26):
Oh, thank you.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
Brilliant Curtis has been amazing.
Speaker 3 (50:33):
And for our listeners , you're referring to Tony Hale
in episode number 25.
Speaker 2 (50:40):
Can y'all believe how he's got these episodes?
Speaker 1 (50:43):
Love it, Dwight.
Thank you, Like memorized withthe different featured guests.
Speaker 2 (50:49):
He's got a brain like a steel trap.
Well, Curtis, thank you so muchfor giving us your time today
and sharing your story.
I've thoroughly enjoyedeverything you've had to say.
You've made me smile a fewtimes, oh what a privilege.
Speaker 1 (51:03):
No, I've been smiling the entire time I I've this has
been rent free in my head inthe last like couple days, and
so I I'm just so glad to haveexperienced this.
I thank you guys.
Speaker 2 (51:15):
Thank you, thank you.
so the where where I'm at and I honestly hyper
fixate on it, I it's.
It's a very creative journeythat I'm at like, looking at
these different businesses andthinking about what are these
different solutions, and it's avery creative process in itself.
So I feel as if I'm using mycreative brain there, but
specifically dropping everythingto pursue.
(00:31):
I think I I honestly like tokeep my a pure creative area,
like I like to keep it at arm'sdistance because I essentially
crave it, I think about it andit makes me, in my opinion, a
little bit more creative overalljust because I'm not having to.
(00:52):
I'm not demanding myself to becreative at 24-7.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Hello, this is Maddox and Dwight You're listening to
For the Love of Creativespodcast, and today we're here to
welcome our featured guest,curtis Tran.
Welcome, curtis.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Thank you guys so much for having me Glad you
could join us.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Sorry, we've been really looking forward to this.
Just so the audience knows, Iguess we've met Curtis at
Creative Mornings.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Multiple times yes.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
But we really met Curtis at the Art Boost here a
couple of weeks back, had anopportunity more to connect and
talk with him and, yeah, thatwas where the idea to have you
come and be a featured guestcame from.
And so here we are.
So I think I'm going to leadoff with something that's near
and dear to my heart and it's alittle different than what we
(02:06):
normally do.
But I know that just fromtalking to you and reading your
bio that you're very, verycommunity-oriented and I would
love to maybe hear the originstory of that.
You know we're going to talk alot about your creative journey,
your creative life, but when itcame to creativity and
(02:29):
community, tell us a little bitabout how you.
I mean I can tell you have apassion for it in your writing.
Tell us where that was born.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Yeah, sure, so obviously, through my creative
journey.
I'm typically known as aphotographer, right Specifically
at Creative Mornings.
That's how y'all met me and Ilove that you mentioned that we
specifically talked more atArtBoost, because I didn't have
a camera in my hands and sowhenever I don't have a camera,
you could probably have moreconversation out of me, because
(03:02):
I feel as if whenever I have thecamera, I'm just constantly
looking like, oh my gosh, thisangle or shot could be nice.
But so the origin of communitya little bit of backstory for me
is that a lot of my upbringing,growing up, I was always shown
the opposite of that.
I would definitely say so.
(03:24):
So I was always the way.
How I would describe mycommunity was that I essentially
was the outcast of the outcast,and the reason why I would say
that is because, so, my familycame from vietnam three over
three decades ago.
They were the last remnants ofthe vietnam war and my father,
(03:45):
whenever he came here, wasactually supposed to be.
He was supposed to be executed,and because he was one of the
last um, the last bits of thevietnam army that was able to
speak about democracy andbecause of the reagan amnesty,
he was able to immigrate here tothe states and he took me,
basically had me and my brothersand my family at, at
(04:07):
Nacogdoches, texas is where I'mfrom.
So, for the fact, I'm not evena Dallas local, I do live here
now, but I spend most of my timein East Texas and, to paint a
little bit of a better picture,I specifically graduated with a
with a class of around 400people 450, 420.
And I was probably like one outof three Asians, and so there
(04:32):
was every walk of life exceptfor the one that was similar to
mine, and because of that Ididn't necessarily.
Whenever I had a community backthere, it wasn't one that looked
like me, it wasn't one thattalked like me or sounded like
me, it was always anamalgamation of different people
.
And in turn I've learned andhave been shown what it's like
(04:57):
to not fit in, and if anything,I think it's it's now it's
weirder for me to fit in.
If anything, it's weirder tosometimes not have those walls
or anything like that.
But I now make it a journey towhere, every time I speak to
someone, I automatically look atwell, how, how do they carry
themselves?
What is in their heart like?
What do they bring to to theroom and then I will then decide
(05:21):
are you my, are you mycommunity, are you my person?
And so a bit of a long-windedanswer.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Oh, you know.
I love that, though, curtis,because what you're describing
what I'm translating out of whatyou're saying is you've gone
from feeling like you reallydidn't belong anywhere to now.
It's a choice.
You are very discriminating anddiscerning and you choose where
(05:47):
you want to belong and whereyou don't want to belong, and
I've walked that path myself.
So this I think we've beentalking about this a lot in the
last few days, dwight and I andI think that we always hear
psychologists say that I'm notgood enough is pretty much a
universal wound.
(06:07):
Almost all of us have that, andI think I don't belong is a
second.
I mean, it's a runner up.
I mean there's been so many ofus.
If we're the least littledifferent in any way, it doesn't
matter whether we're adifferent race or we're a
different size or we're adifferent sexual orientation.
(06:32):
I've certainly experienced alot of not belonging, and you
know, I think the big thing forme was realizing that I had put
that in place myself.
It was an unconscious choicethat I had made.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Well, and, to be fair , it's something that's modeled.
I mean, one of the first gamesthat we all get to play is
musical chairs, and that's justformalizing, edging someone out.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah, do they still play that in schools?
think about it.
Yeah, I remember.
I don't know if they still playthat in schools or not, but I
certainly remember it when I wasa kid.
Certainly remember it, yeah,and, and you know if you were
yeah, I was never the fast oneso so I was the quickest one to
get to my chair I can speak tothat.
(07:29):
Well, tell us a little bit more.
You know that not belonging andnow you look at people and you
assess it instead of a groupthing.
I get that you're accessing iton a one-on-one person, but how
does that affect your desire forcommunity?
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think that I've always haveseen the discrepancies within
different individuals, like,maybe, like, as like.
How fundamentally strong isthis foundation of this
relationship?
Politically, romantically, it'sjust, you know, what do we use
to base it on?
And sometimes it could be ahobby, sometimes it could be
(08:16):
shared interest.
And you know, I think what Iwant to tie back to is that I,
whenever I kept thinking aboutover the weekend who truly is my
community and I, and honestlykept going back to creatives.
Creatives are specifically mycommunity because there's,
whenever I go through thesedifferent demographics could be
sexual orientation, could berace, could be religion,
demographics, different jobsectors or industries.
(08:39):
There's always the differentnuances.
You know where you have tobalance on this tightrope, on
how you navigate thatconversation.
But I think, with creatives,fundamentally, there's this
fundamental love that exists andI think it really just goes
back to expression andultimately, I think, being a
creative, there is a sense ofyou you want to express, you
(09:01):
want to communicate and therehas to be someone on the
receiving end to receive thatcommunication.
And whenever it comes to how Icarry this one-on-one
conversations, like I honestlylike it could.
Sometimes it could be deeperthings, but sometimes it could
just be simple things like areyou asking me questions or am I
(09:24):
just asking, do you do?
I know your entire life storyand you don't even know what's
my last name.
You know stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
That's a real thing too.
I've certainly had my share ofone-sided friendships, oh yeah,
and and and primaryrelationships.
It's, it's a real, real thing.
You know, you spoke a minuteago about the demographic and
I'm going to inject just alittle bit because we're all
about that.
You know, we pay attention todemographics, but in a very
(09:58):
different way than mostorganizations or communities do.
We pay attention todemographics in that we want a
wide variety of demographics inwhat we're building, and so it's
not we're looking for, you know, white 40 to 60 year old people
or anything like that.
It's, we're looking for thisbroad swath of all ages in all
(10:22):
demographics, of all ages in alldemographics.
But we do focus onpsychographics, and the number
one thing we look for inpsychographics is and we call it
out in all of our marketing andour conversation we seek
heart-centered creatives.
We've both discovered that I'vebeen creative my whole life.
I was a hairdresser and makeupartist for 40 years and I've
(10:45):
done all kinds of creative stuff.
I've played the piano and I'vesang and, oh my gosh, I just
can't even name all the thingsI've done.
But I never, ever, have beenpart of a body of people that
all said I'm a creative, youknow, until the last couple of
(11:06):
years, and we kind of stumbledinto this.
I don't really believe incoincidences, I think it's all
you know, kind of on purpose,but to us it felt like one day
we just looked around and wewere surrounded by creatives and
we were kind of digging it andwe have found that, yes, they
(11:26):
are our people.
But we've also discovered thatwhen you look at creatives, most
of the time it is very diversedemographically and they all
play well together.
And I think you were at ourspeed connections thing we did
at you know, I call that outwhere I said you know, the thing
(11:47):
that brings us together is ourlove of creativity and it's just
, it's remarkable.
I'm not saying that I don'toccasionally meet a creative.
That is not my people.
I do, I do, but it's theexception, not the rule.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
One of the things that you hit upon when you were
just talking about yourexperience and how you were
drawn to creatives was how thereis an innate openness, and it's
something that you felt, butI've I've discovered that that's
something that's confirmed inin science.
(12:32):
A common trait that creativesshare is openness to new
experiences.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
I love that.
I mean there's there has to benew ways to express to.
I always so y'all know that Ihave this day job and consulting
and so on, and you know we haveall these different professions
or hobbies that pay the bills,or X, y and Z, but at the end of
the day, being a creative Ialways describe it as like this
is what keeps me sane, this iswhat keeps me in.
(13:04):
Love is just the experience ofhumanity in itself, and
creatives are people that I willdefinitely say.
I'm a big fan of the show, so Ilove how you guys have
navigated differentconversations and that I really
do want to say that being acreative is someone that just
(13:24):
like it can really just beanyone like as soon as you just
have a creative thought, you area creative right then and there
, because you're open, you wantto create, you are experiencing
what makes life so beautiful andand it can be expression
through creation, it's awesome I.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
I think that part of what makes us so wonderful is
that in order to be reallyconnected to that creative part
of ourselves, we have to bereally connected to whatever
higher source it is that webelieve in, and I think that for
me, I know that that higherbeing is a being of love and it
(14:03):
just all fits to me.
You know, because we're soconnected, the creativity is the
pretty much the conduit betweenthat higher self, or higher
power, and self, and along withthat conduit of creativity comes
a lot of cool stuff, you know,like love and compassion and
(14:26):
empathy, and you know I can'timagine now that there's very
many people that haven't heardme say it's our belief that
creatives are the people thathave the power.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Whether we'll use it or not is another story, but the
creative community are the bodyof people on this planet that
have the power to heal humanityI'm really curious about some of
the earliest experiences thatyou've had, uh, being that you
had to deal with being different, not seeing yourself, uh, when,
(15:04):
whenever you would, you know,just go and try to take part in
things that were local.
Um, how did, how did that playout for you in just finding your
way and, um, navigating life?
What was that like?
Speaker 1 (15:22):
So I love that you asked that because you know I I
stayed in east texas all the waythrough college and ethically
it's it's been years.
So I've I've had so many newexperiences to to where it is
slowly just becoming not myentire experience but fractional
proportionate.
So so obviously I was incommunities to where I mean
(15:47):
sometimes it wasn't just beingAsian, sometimes I was the only
person of color in their roomand that would happen like 99%
of the time.
So I was very used to that andthey.
It was interesting because,although these people accepted
me in the room per se, but youknow, they had all these
different stereotypes or stigmaswith me and I think something
(16:11):
that I hate and I absolutelylike will spend probably the
rest of my life trying to changethis.
But growing up in there, likein 90% of the conversations I
would have, it would somehowrelate back to my skin and back
in East Texas.
They they're very, very curiousand sometimes it's a place of
(16:32):
hate, sometimes a place ofcuriosity and but sometimes it's
naive and we had to go about it.
But a great example is thatit's like oh, dwight, it's very
good to meet you, so what areyou?
And it would literally beeither the second or third
sentence that they would speakto me.
And so in that it's it'sinteresting because I
(16:53):
essentially became verydesensitized to it, to the of my
initial reaction to it, butthen I became a lot more attuned
of basically digging deeper ofwhere does that place come from
and where they ask thosequestions, because I will say
sometimes I will definitely sayany sexist, it wasn't all hate
per se, but it really just theywere very naive.
(17:14):
There wasn't many people thatlooked like me, so they were
just genuinely curious.
They just did not ask questionslike hey, like they'll ask me
questions like what kind of ofAsian are you?
What kind of Chinese are you?
What like what are you?
And they would speak to me likean animal sometimes, but maybe
they just didn't really know anyother different way.
And so I kind of made it mymission in East Texas to really
(17:37):
be heavy on education.
So specifically my alma mater,stephen of Austin, I created an
organization called Organizationof Asian Excellence and it was
specifically focused oneducating the communities
through my experience and it wasactually made in response to
(18:01):
COVID-19.
So it where I was seeing peoplelike me get discriminated, mass
crimes and mass murders.
It says it.
I was anxious the entire time,and so I.
My change was that I created awhole organization and led a
bunch of asians, like the fewasians that that existed at at
sfa, my alma mater, and we, wemade some change and it's funny
because, uh it, you know,everyone pretty much enjoyed me
(18:25):
and I was.
I was part of the officeadmissions program at SFA and
I'm sure you may haveexperienced this before where,
oh my gosh, you were the tokenperson of color, so we're going
to put you on all of ourpromotional material.
So it's funny because there'syou can go all around texas and
(18:46):
if you see any sort of sfamaterial and there's an asian
guy on there, 99 of time it'smost likely me.
And it's so interesting becauseI did all this change in
response to how I grew up, andit's it, I would say, like the
sfa probably had like 0.01 of ofAsians, but as soon as I
graduated, I guess it workedbecause I 0.01 probably wanted
(19:08):
to what like 0.05 or 1%.
But yeah, it's a change, it wassomething.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Yeah, you, you were the representation that you
needed.
Yeah, exactly, you were therefor somebody else.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Well, and you never know, as time moves on, how that
ripple effect will changethings.
You know, we don't know thatripple effect.
We know it exists but we don'tusually follow it to see exactly
how things changed.
You know, you spoke a fewminutes ago, curtis to the
(19:43):
curiosity.
You spoke a few minutes ago,curtis to the curiosity, and I
myself have all of my life beenfascinated by people that are
different than me.
I'm very curious myself and Ilove different cultures and I
love different traditions andthings, and it's just such a
fascination and I've learned,you know, to not ask those
(20:07):
questions, even though my desirefor the answers is from a clear
, you know, loving place.
I just, you know, life isreally boring if everybody that
is around you is just like you.
That's what I don't understandabout the set of white people
(20:29):
that really want everything tojust be white.
Oh my God, I don't get it.
It sounds horribly boring to me.
You know, all my life I've hadfriends from different
backgrounds and it's what makeslife interesting, but I don't
(20:50):
know.
There's something about it thatI wish I could just snap my
fingers and have it be different.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Absolutely I will say I meet individuals like you,
maddox, to where you know yougrew up around diversity and
it's not necessarily a questionlike when your your questions
purely come from a place ofcuriosity and like for.
For you it's more of like.
I see it as like you're justcurious about my story, about
(21:17):
how I live, versus.
Sometimes it can be like let'sdissect some of these
stereotypes or statements I mayhave about you and let's see how
true they are.
Like let's put them of thesestereotypes or stigmatize I may
have about you know, see howtrue they are.
Like let's put them to the teststress test.
But you know I wish I met morepeople like you.
Max, correct Growing up, but Itry to make my entire community
down in Dallas to hang out withpeople like y'all.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
And the diversity all these years has been by my
choice because my family was notthat way.
You know, I I just struck.
I was married to a female in myearly 20s and I lived in a
small town in central Texas.
We're talking 1977.
(21:59):
I married an Hispanic woman,which was something that just
wasn't really done back then andmy family never even questioned
it.
I brought her home andintroduced her and they fell in
love with her and of course, youknow my family.
When I brought my first manhome, he was Hungarian from well
(22:26):
, yeah, no, his parents werefrom Hungary, but he was not.
He had grown up in SouthAmerica, was not?
He had grown up in SouthAmerica.
But my family just welcomed himright in and loved him too, but
they were open.
But if you looked at all myfamily, they're all hanging out
with white people for the mostpart.
I'm the oddball in my familythat has just embraced all of
(22:51):
the differences because I findit so beautiful.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Yeah, absolutely Dwight.
What was it like for yougrowing up?
Because was it more of anoriginal relationship.
Was it always like?
What was that like for you?
Speaker 3 (23:16):
Well, ironically, I grew up in what would become a
majority minority city and Igrew up in grand prairie and, um
, it was still very much likewhat you would, what's depicted
in the, the teen movies, youknow, american pie or mean girls
, that that was kind of theexistence.
That was real.
That was my experience.
So I I felt like there was alot that was on display and
(23:41):
represented, and even the, themore uncomfortable parts.
You know I'm what.
I was the black face in thecrowd, the, the token black
friend, and so.
So I felt that at a lot, of, alot of times and it was, it
could be uncomfortable at timesand there were instances where
there was I experienced subtleracism and, uh, occasionally,
(24:06):
when I, when I would go back toEast Texas to visit my
grandparents, um, not so subtleracism.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
So it was it, it was interesting yeah, I mean Dwight,
I remember you and I connectedof our backgrounds in East Texas
, so you know like whenever it'slike they, sometimes people
would literally open upconferences like oh my gosh,
dwight, this is this, this is myasian friend curtis like they,
(24:35):
will they like they make it'slike it's like.
Is that all I am to you?
Speaker 2 (24:42):
that.
You know.
The sad thing about it is theyprobably don't realize and don't
intend to be that way.
I think there is intentionalracism, and then I think there's
racism that's just ignorance,and although it's still racism,
let's call a spade a spade.
But I myself have said somehorribly racist things in my
(25:10):
life because I didn't know theywere racist.
I literally didn't know, andwhen somebody enlightened me I
was just mortified that that hadcome out of my mouth.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
I've experienced it on many different levels and
it's one of those things whereif you're looking for something
bad, you're going to find it inanything.
And there have been thoseinstances where someone would
say to me, you know, especiallyas a child growing up, oh my you
, you are surprisinglyarticulate and thank you, yep,
(25:46):
thank you, I think.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Oh yeah, I've made some horrible faux pas in my
life, but um, I've lived to tellabout it.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
nobody's killed me yet well, life shouldn't
necessarily like whenever you goback to in terms of expression.
Sometimes our expression reallyis coming from a place with the
limited experience and knowledgethat we may have, and I will
never I've met, like I'm used to, super conservative rednecks,
(26:19):
hicks and so on, like I it'sfunny because I find a lot more
like I'm just so used to themversus like the city folk here
in Dallas at times.
But the thing is is that it iswhen it it not all mistakes or
hiccups have to define you, butthe way how you carry yourself
(26:40):
after moving forward.
It is okay to acknowledge thatI was wrong and I wasn't
educated before and I thinkthat's something that
fundamentally goes back tocreatives.
That sometimes it goes.
You know they will, they willspeak and discuss about things
and express and portraysometimes events, different
(27:01):
mentalities, philosophies and soon, and it's just like kind of
like going back to like just theopenness and that's something
that I think fundamentally.
Whether or not like if someonecan see the most PC thing to me
is not what I most, what I careabout most typically me as an
(27:22):
individual, just because I can'treally control, or no one can
really influence, whatinformation that they were given
previously, but but they'lltake this new information,
experience and how to moveforward with it.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
I think that that's what makes it more important
well and and you know how wedefine pc changes like on a
really rapid rate.
So it's like what you think'spc you find like last week is
this week.
It isn't so pc.
That really messes me up.
But so let's shift gears alittle bit.
(27:54):
I want to hear more about theactual creativity part of your
journey.
I'd love to know how old youwere and what it was that tipped
you off where you went.
Oh, I'm, I'm creative.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
I that moment when the light bulb went off uh, I
don't, I I probably can't thinkof a time because I think, uh,
if you find me on facebook andyou like, just scroll far enough
, you can probably just find.
Like I used to draw growing up.
I remember I my, when my fatherwas a, was a soldier, so I used
(28:32):
to be as obsessed with the armyI think most kids and most boys
, specifically in East Texas,were just like oh yeah, I want
to become a soldier and shootall these cool jets or whatever.
But you know, I used to draw itand and so, specifically
through then I've for me.
So for for now, people know meas a photographer and absolutely
(28:55):
I love it.
I'm fine with that.
But my creative journey it's,it's always constantly changing
and I never know if maybetomorrow I'll, maybe I'll become
a writer or I'll become like,uh, maybe a cinematographer,
we're not sure.
Like I used to draw growing up.
I used to do poetry in the inthe seventh grade and then I
(29:17):
specifically did band, so I wasobsessed with music production
for a tiny bit and then now I'mreally big into photography.
But in all honesty, I'm gettingclose to like I want to look
into cinematography and andcreating videos and, and.
So you, I just you just neverknow.
So when I I think I've justbeen creative my entire life, I
(29:39):
just am not sure.
What am I going to hyper fixatejust yet?
Speaker 2 (29:43):
You know it's.
It's almost easier to giveyourself the label creative than
it is to give yourself thelabel photographer, because you
know the creativity covers itall, and then you can do all
those.
I I love the multi-facetedaspect of it.
I think that's amazing, so youdon't ever have time to get
(30:04):
bored with anything absolutelymy uh, I'm actually currently in
the process of doing somerebranding.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
I'm working with this amazing graphic designer and
that's helping me with branding,and so they're not, I think,
graphic designers such a limitedthat my basically my brand team
essentially and you know, theykept, they kept asking like okay
, well, if you do photography,then, like, maybe we need to
hone down and like, speak aboutyour niche and say that you do
(30:33):
photography.
It's like, well, you know, Ithink that's cool and I agree on
that.
Like you know, I talk aboutthat in my day job.
Like, hey, what is your niche?
What markets are you in?
Speaker 2 (30:55):
But in my head as a creative I was like but I don't
know if I'm going to dophotography like forever.
You know, it's interesting thatyou say that, because one of
the things that I I learnedsometime in the last couple of
years which was really powerful.
It was a marketing person thatsaid picking a niche doesn't
mean that's the only people youcan serve.
Picking a niche is for thepurpose of knowing who you
market to.
You can serve anyone that youwant in any capacity you want,
(31:17):
but your marketing vehicle needsto be, you know, niched,
otherwise it's too broad andeverybody wants to work with a
specialist.
You know, if you have heartproblems, you don't go to a
dermatologist or a GP doctor.
You go to a dermatologist or aGP doctor, you go to a
cardiologist, and that's truefor almost everything nowadays.
(31:40):
We want that specialist.
So yeah, just because youmarket to it doesn't mean it's
who you serve, particularly youserve anybody.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
So what was that like for y'all?
Have you guys so for you,maddodox, I know that you're a
hairdresser, singer, and nowyou're doing community creation.
Like tell me a little bit moreabout y'all's like creative
journey.
What was that like for you guys?
Speaker 2 (32:06):
well, you know, I guess I got deemed as the
creative one in the family whenI was a kid because I was always
decorating the house.
You know, I was like mom wouldsay oh my God, you take the same
tired Christmas decorationsevery year and you make the
house look different.
And she didn't know I did that.
But yeah, I just was alwaysmaking something, or it wasn't
(32:28):
necessarily art.
I mean, I took art classes inmiddle school, but I've been
probably more involved in art inthe last few years than I have
been the whole rest of my life.
But I've always gravitated.
I've done photography and avariety of different things.
(32:52):
I'm right now I'm like oddlydrawing a blank.
I love to entertain and thatcertainly has an artful quality
to it.
Oh yeah, and it's, it's shifted.
You know the way I used toentertain and the way I
entertain now it's.
It's much more streamlined, youknow, and and it has more of a
(33:16):
purpose rather than justbringing people together, it's
bringing people together with aspecific outcome.
That makes sense.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Yeah, I definitely would say so, definitely will
say so.
Whenever you did the, theworkshop with us at art boost it
, I love that you were able tosay that, like typically,
creatives can be moreintroverted at times, but and
you, we all came out of it withthe, with the want and the
better ability to connect, andso I could never see it like
(33:51):
from even the, the places thatI've seen you at, it's like it's
you are cultivating anenvironment, but there's a.
It's very intentional and Ilove it thank you.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
That means a lot, curtis.
We, we love what we do and and,and, even though sometimes we
get really frustrated and it canbe really challenging, our, our
heart is both of us is verymuch in the bringing people
together, and and not just anypeople.
Now we really are in in lovewith the creatives community,
like we live for it, we eat, webreathe, we sleep, you you name
(34:28):
it, it's, it's all aboutcreativity.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
I love it.
All right, Joey, I want to hearyour journey.
I want to hear it Sure.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Yeah, I had the fun experience of growing up more or
less as an only child for allintents and purposes.
I have two much youngersiblings, but they're kind of
the second set.
The second set and, in additionto being the only child in the
(34:59):
house, my, my parents worked alot and they they split up, so I
had to find ways to entertainmyself and that meant that I had
a lot of time alone and I hadto fill my days and so I had to
get really creative aboutbuilding a pretty rich inner
world and I would just go thereat will.
I spent a lot of time outsideand I did a lot of creative, you
(35:23):
know, artsy things.
Growing up.
I drew as a small child and it'skind of one of those things
that that more or less went away.
Those things that that more orless went away, like I, uh,
about a year or two ago, uh,maddox and I went to a drawing
class and uh, I could uh see howquickly it came to me, um,
(35:44):
because it was just likesomething that I'd I'd let go
and, um, it was uh kind of afamiliar friend and, like you, I
was involved in band, I playedmusic and it was kind of a nice
(36:04):
way to build community there,because I remember building a
lot of relationships with theother players and really getting
a feel for how that cametogether.
And other than that it's justbeen.
My creativity has come in theway that I had to survive.
(36:26):
One of the unfortunate thingsabout my journey was that there
was some unnatural friction thatI went through with my, my
family, and from the age of 17up to my enlistment in the army
at the age of 23, I was more orless figuring out how to make it
(36:50):
on my own and that at timesrequired some extreme creativity
because, as you know, at theage of 17, you can't sign
contracts for things like alease for an apartment and it.
It required having to getcreative to try to make sure
(37:11):
that the basics are taken careof, having to get creative to
try to make sure that the basicsare taken care of.
And, uh, having had those scars, it's, it's made it to where
I'm pretty resilient when itcomes to a lot of challenges.
I my my breaking point is a lot.
Um, I I'd say I'm able to putup with a lot more than most
(37:32):
people would try to run away andhide and give up on.
I know that there's somethingto be said about having that
perseverance, that willingnessto see something through to the
end.
That makes it so that wheneveryou're on the other side of it,
(37:53):
you enjoy it that much more.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
I love that.
I you know I typically don'thear many creatives.
Typically the the sentimentsthat I hear is you know I'll
start something, but thensomething else will come in.
I'll hyper fix it.
So it was like I've a hundredprojects going on at the same
time.
So it's kudos to you thatyou're one of the few creatives
where, like, if I startedsomething, I'm going to see it
(38:17):
through.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
I can be a little obsessive.
When he gets, he gets focusedand I it's not like anything
I've ever seen, like I don'tknow how he does it.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
I'm going to sit down with you and get a coffee and
like, help me, help me study, orjust lock in, and these
projects I love it.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
Yeah, some of it's, some of it really boils down to,
um, what's necessary forsurvival, because, um, one of
the things that I had to well, II discovered, um was that I can
I can be a little bitoverwhelmed in the scene where
there's too much happening andpeople naturally filter out a
(39:06):
lot of things, and, for whateverreason, I've got this vigilance
that makes it to where I haveto really focus.
Otherwise, I I'm justoverwhelmed and I could lose
consciousness, so that that kindof helps Well yeah, he's got a
(39:27):
little little bit of anincentive to stay focused,
because he does.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
He literally passes out, loses consciousness if he
gets overstimulated.
Yeah, so we have a few minutesleft and I have one more thing
I'd like to.
We've already talked about somecultural stuff, but we've had
such a wide variety of guestsfrom varying different cultures
and some of the most interestingconversations we've had has
(39:54):
been about how their familiesresponded when they started
showing up as a creative, as achild, whether the family was
supportive or not supportive, orthe messages that you got.
All these stories have been sorich and and yeah, I'll, I'll
stop there.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Oh, okay, so if, if anyone listening knows anything
about me, uh, so my, when itcomes to my family, it's very,
very complicated and that it alljust, it's as simple, simple I
would say crutch.
That leads to just a multitudeof problems, but it's just a
(40:36):
language barrier, basically, andlike, although like so for my
family, like they can, they canspeak vietnamese to me and I'll
and I'll like, understand andI'll and I'll respond back to
english.
But for me they wanted me to beamericanized so much they were
so afraid of of the war-torncountry that they left that I
they made sure I didn't knowvietnamese growing up and but
(40:59):
obviously and honestly theyregret it and so now I'm taking
two lessons and trying to changethat.
But specifically when it comesto my creative journey and how
they respond to it, I don'tthink they really know and
understand, to be honest,because, like I've shown them,
they've seen my pictures andthey know that I do X, y and Z,
but I don't think they trulyunderstand that I am like
(41:20):
full-fledged creative.
I think what you might find in alot of different communities
are similar to mine.
It's kind of they really just,they really filter out a lot of
information.
So really, they really onlywant to know if I'm just eating
(41:41):
and am I making money and that'sit.
So it's, you know, and honestly, my family is very detached
from the people that I talk to,what I do for fun, my favorite
color and so on, and I think fora lot of people that may seem
as a maybe a very dishearteningthing, but that's just how my
(42:01):
family operates and so, andspecifically for us, yeah, they
just don't know that I'm acreative.
They they know I've donepeople's photo shoots and so on.
They've seen it like we I'vedone family friends, but they're
just like okay, I think curtissometimes presses a button.
I think that's that's what theysee they don't really get that.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
It's a bigger part of your life than the day job.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
Wow, yeah, I mean, that's a little different than
any of the other stories we'vegotten.
So that's, you know, anotherfacet on the diamond of life.
You know, wow, how is that?
I mean, I know that's allyou've ever known.
You know they're your parentsand it's all you've ever known.
(42:49):
But when you see or hearstories about other people whose
families take all this interestin what they're doing, how do
you, how do you experience that?
How is that for you?
Speaker 1 (43:03):
Sure, so I would say so.
Me and my therapist talk aboutthis all the time because my
current partner they are likethey, my partner calls their mom
like every single day, and forme I probably talk to my mom
maybe once every two weeks andthat's very normal for us.
I would say that if I startedcalling her more, my mom would
(43:26):
probably like like are you okay?
Like it's like you're callingme too much at this point, and
so I will say so.
I did in the dating that I didgrowing up.
I would go to thanksgivings andChristmas.
Like my family doesn't reallycelebrate many holidays, and so
(43:48):
I think the only holiday wereally celebrate is specifically
Chinese New Year or Lunar NewYear.
That's the only thing wecelebrate.
Like we don't even celebrateeach other's birthdays, and so I
was like I know my story isvery different, my experience is
very different, but it's I kindof just see it and just say was
like.
I know my story is verydifferent, my experience is very
different, but it's I kind ofjust see it and just say that
like this is just you know how,how, what I've seen and what I
(44:09):
know, and but I've experiencedthanksgivings and Christmases
with other different families.
I've seen the differentdynamics, different traditions.
It's all very interesting to me, uh.
But you know, I think I thinkit'll be interesting that if I
ever have a family to kind of doa business, like okay, we can,
like I guess we can doThanksgiving and Christmas, so
(44:31):
all this stuff, so it's so Ireally do emphasize to people
that these day-to-dayinteractions that I have with
you guys, they guys, they mean alot more to me than the average
person and it's everything.
Community is literallyeverything.
And so just because for methere's not a lot of celebration
that really exists, period, andyou know, whenever I think the
(44:57):
way how I've kind of seen it,what I've told my therapist,
like I think it's kind of like asense of like there are parties
happening all over.
I'm just not invited, and butwhenever I have been part of
these parties or whatever, I sawthe Christmas tree or whatever.
It's just kind of like, oh, youknow it's cool, but it's just,
it's definitely just not how Igrew up.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
Yeah, well, you know, on, on some level there's a
certain level of freedom in whatyou're describing, you know,
because so many people arebeholden to go to all of those
family gatherings, whether theywant to or not, and sometimes
family are not the people wereally want to hang out with.
You know we have a chosenfamily for that very, very
(45:43):
reason.
So you know, it's all in theway you look at it, because some
people could certainly see thatyou have a level of freedom in
the way that you were raised andnot so much emphasis put on
close knit family.
All the way you look at it.
Yeah, no, I love it close knitfamily, all in the way you look
(46:04):
at it.
Yeah, no, I love it.
So I'm going to pull the bigquestion out now.
Are you ready for the bigquestion?
What do you got for me In yourcurrent creative life?
What is like here now, realtime?
What is the biggest pain point?
Is the biggest pain point, inother words, that challenge that
, if it were solved, would be agame changer for your creative
(46:27):
journey, or creative life.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
It probably would be.
It probably would legitimatelyjust be time and money.
I think so and just because forme, when it comes to whenever I
do my photo shoots or anythingwith individuals, it's it's
really just, you know, I willsit down and show them all the
(46:53):
pictures, I'll sit through withthem and I'll go through all the
conversations.
So I mean, it's the way how Icarry my business.
It's a very, very lengthyprocess and I'm totally fine
with that.
And but ultimately it takes meaway from my, my day job.
And so whenever and alsowhenever I say the sentiments of
money, like I think I think somany creatives very similar to I
(47:13):
would say that like, ideally,we would love to, you know, drop
everything and pursue being aportrait artist, or you know,
like, travel and do X, y and Z,but I think it's more just
logistics.
For me it really just boilsdown to that.
But you know, whenever I makethe sentiments that like hey,
(47:34):
like I want to do cinematography, I'll be honest with you guys.
Like, of course, the passionand creative field that I picked
is a very tech and expensiveone.
So it's like, if I want to getinto cinematography, I want to
buy these cinema cameras.
I have to be ready to drop likethousands and thousands of
dollars and like, although likemaybe I do have that money or
(47:55):
the discretionary income, or thediscretionary income, but like,
as I've kind of told you guys,my consulting job, it's just
like I think about all like howdoes that affect my cash flow,
and so on.
It's like I'm at this very formy creative journey, I'm very
(48:16):
like very free, and so on.
And then the other side is likeI'm a very type A individual.
So it's like I kind of maybe Iovercomplicate things, maybe my,
my thing is my pain points.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
I overcomplicate things too much well, that could
be said of all of us, yeah, sodo you see a time in your life
where you might leave theconsulting and go full-time with
creativity?
Is that a dream or a desire?
Speaker 1 (48:40):
In all honesty, specifically where I'm at, I
actually think that it'sspecifically my calling.
So the where I'm at, I honestlyhyper fixate on it.
It's a very creative journeythat I'm at like, looking at
these different businesses andthinking about what are these
different solutions, and it's avery creative process in itself.
So I feel as if I'm using mycreative brain there, but
(49:04):
specifically dropping everythingto pursue.
I think I I honestly like tokeep my a pure creative area,
like I like to keep it at arm'sdistance because I essentially
crave it, I think about it andit makes me, in my opinion, a
little bit more creative overalljust because I'm not having to.
(49:28):
I'm not demanding myself to becreative at 24, seven, and so
you know.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
I've, I've given you gold.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
Yeah, that's gold.
I like where I'm at.
I like my relationship toeverything.
So far, I honestly wouldn'tchange much with my day-to-day
right now.
Speaker 2 (49:45):
You know you're the second person that has said I
made it a point, I believe thatI could have two passions.
Exactly, he's an actor and heis a tech person, with Microsoft
, I believe.
Okay, there you go.
And he loves both and he didn'thave any intention of giving
either one up because they feeddifferent parts of his soul.
(50:06):
And I thought how brilliant isthat you know to have
intentionally chosen twopassions, rather than thinking
you can, you know, we're, ashuman beings, we're just so,
either or people and it reallycan be an and and you found the
and and that's just brilliant.
Speaker 1 (50:26):
Oh, thank you.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
Brilliant Curtis has been amazing.
Speaker 3 (50:33):
And for our listeners , you're referring to Tony Hale
in episode number 25.
Speaker 2 (50:40):
Can y'all believe how he's got these episodes?
Speaker 1 (50:43):
Love it, Dwight.
Thank you, Like memorized withthe different featured guests.
Speaker 2 (50:49):
He's got a brain like a steel trap.
Well, Curtis, thank you so muchfor giving us your time today
and sharing your story.
I've thoroughly enjoyedeverything you've had to say.
You've made me smile a fewtimes, oh what a privilege.
Speaker 1 (51:03):
No, I've been smiling the entire time I I've this has
been rent free in my head inthe last like couple days, and
so I I'm just so glad to haveexperienced this.
I thank you guys.
Speaker 2 (51:15):
Thank you, thank you.
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