September 15, 2025 • 54 mins
Elisha Oliver's path from classroom teacher to Executive Director of Texas Folklife offers a masterclass in following creative curiosity. When standardized testing drained her passion for education after nearly twenty years, Elisha found herself at a crossroads that many creatives face: continue the safe, practical path or risk exploring long-buried interests?
What followed was a "happy accident" – discovering anthropology as the perfect discipline to embrace her love of cultures, communities, and artistic expression. Now leading Texas Folklife, Elisha works to make folk arts accessible across the state while confronting the same questions that haunted her mother and grandmother, both artistic women who "put their creativity in a box" to fulfill family responsibilities.
The conversation explores this intergenerational pattern of suppressing artistic expression for practical concerns – a pattern Elisha found herself unconsciously perpetuating with her own daughter despite wanting her happiness. This revelation during our discussion created a powerful moment of awareness about how we inherit and transmit limiting beliefs about creativity versus practicality.
Most compelling is Elisha's evolution toward authentic living. Rather than contorting herself to fit others' expectations, she's embraced what she calls her "and era" – a life where multiple passions coexist and where relationships take precedence over achievements. Her newfound comfort with authenticity as a "polarizer" that naturally attracts compatible people while creating distance from others represents profound personal growth.
As Elisha puts it, her biggest creative challenge is time – finding space in her schedule to nurture her soul through pottery, photography, writing, and music. When she makes that time, she becomes "a much better person for everyone else." Her story reminds us that creative expression isn't a luxury but essential nourishment that makes us more fully human. What creative curiosity are you neglecting that might transform your life if given the chance to bloom?
Elisha's Profile
Texas Folklife
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
I'm not sure where it's going to take him.
That's one of the things that,you know, I get asked.
They're like well, have you allfaced budget cuts?
Well, yes, we have, but whatdoes this look like?
You know, I don't know.
I'm still dreaming that bigdream.
I'm not only for myself, butyou know, for the't know, I'm
still dreaming that big dream.
I'm not only for myself, but,you know, for the communities
that we work in, and I'm tryingto make sure that art is
(00:31):
accessible for everyone.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Hello.
Yes, you guessed it, it'sMaddox and Dwight.
We're the Connections inCommunity, guys, and we're here
to bring you another absolutelyfabulous episode of.
For the Love of Creatives, ourguest today is Alicia Oliver.
Welcome, alicia.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Thank you.
Thank you, dwight Maddox, andjust everyone.
Thank you for inviting me.
I was really looking forward tobeing able to sit with you all
and just have a conversation,and you know I've always enjoyed
just being able to talk topeople.
I'm a people person, so thankyou, thank you.
(01:24):
Thank you for having people.
I'm a people person, so thankyou, thank you.
Thank you for having me.
A little bit about me I am theexecutive director at Texas
Folklife.
I've been with them for aboutthree years.
We are a folk arts nonprofitfor the state of Texas.
I am in the DFW area.
I have team members that arescattered throughout the state
(01:47):
and you know we are.
Our mission is to reallycelebrate and amplify the voices
of folk arts and folk leadersand traditional artists
throughout the state and makingsure that they have that
platform.
And so that's a little bitabout me.
By training, I am a bioculturalanthropologist and so I know
(02:11):
people are like well, how doesthat intersection happen,
anthropology and art and makethat make sense?
And so I know we'll probablytalk a little bit about that
journey as well.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Well, and it was a fellow anthropologist that
introduced you to us.
Former featured guest JaneBaldwin was having you at the
Leadership Arts Institutereception.
Yes, I have to say that slowlybecause it doesn't roll off my
(02:44):
tongue easy yet, but yes, thatwas delightful.
We absolutely love Jane.
She's a really neat person.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Yeah, she is.
I'm so happy that she made thatintroduction.
She and I were members of thesame cohort.
For you know, again, I'm alwaysthinking of is it BCA, is it
LAI, but it's the LeadershipArts.
You know, that institute thatwe participated in and I'm
(03:15):
always surprised when I, youknow, meet a fellow
anthropologist and Jane is anarchaeologist but we're under
that same umbrella, and when wewere having the conversation and
she's like you know, I'm anarchaeologist but we're under
that same umbrella, and when wewere having the conversation and
she's like you know, I'm anarchaeologist, I'm like no way,
because for me it's usually rareand we just hit it off.
So to see her in her role as anarchaeologist, and then, you
(03:38):
know, in this creative space,I'm like, oh, I'm not the only
one that's out here, and so thatwas really pleasing.
But when she introduced us, Iwas just like I felt that
chemistry there, that connection, and I was like this is going
to be great, you know, to beable to just be in fellowship
with two like-minded folks.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Yeah, we definitely felt it as well as soon as she
introduced us, and that's theway so many of our people come
to us is we either getintroduced or we're people
people also so we're out andabout all the time meeting
mostly creatives.
We do a lot of stuff that hasto do with art and other forms
of creativity.
(04:21):
So well, let's jump in and findout a little bit more of your
story, since you kind of startedthere.
Why don't you tell us howanthropology fit into that whole
creative scene for you?
Speaker 1 (04:38):
You know, anthropology, I say, was a happy
accident for me.
I had been a veteran educatorin the public school system for
almost 20 years and I just feltmyself like being very
dissatisfied with teaching kidsto pass a standardized test.
(05:00):
You know it's like is that?
You know it's different fromwhen I was in school and I'm not
going to sit here and agemyself, but I probably did just
now, but it was.
I was like they're not, it'snot true learning, because it's
all about getting them to passthis state mandated exam.
And love teaching, love beingin the classroom.
(05:24):
But you know, there was at atime where I was about to be an
empty nester as well and I waslike what am I going to do with?
What am I going to do?
You know, I love being in theclassroom.
I love my kiddos, not reallyhappy with the state mandated
test, my daughter's about tograduate, so what am I going to
(05:47):
do with my time?
And I started taking justrandom classes, everything from
a return to art history, whichI've always loved, and stumbled
upon anthropology, stumbled uponanthropology, and I had a
(06:09):
professor and I was like well,you know, I think I want to
travel and I want to go to allthese museums.
I want to do this and that.
And he was like, well, you wantto do a lot, you know.
He's like, well, have youlooked at anthropology?
And I was like, no, because atthe time, you know, I knew
archaeology and I knew how thatfit into the scope of things.
But I was like, well, whatwould I do with anthropology?
(06:30):
And so I took sort of takingclasses at UNT and fell in love
with it and I'm like, oh, thisis everything that I have ever
been interested in.
It has to do with differentcultures and communities and
just their whole life ways andthe art and the food and the
music.
And I was like this is great.
(06:50):
And continued on with thoseclasses and got a second
bachelor's degree inanthropology.
And then my daughter was gettingready to graduate and it was
like, well, now what?
And I would still.
That thought is what am I goingto do?
Am I going to travel?
Am I going to see if I'm goingto do any kind of museum work?
(07:13):
What does this look like?
Am I going to go to graduateschool?
And I had family in Oklahoma.
I tell people I am a Texas girlwith Oklahoma roots, deep
Oklahoma roots and I was like,well, maybe I'll go to graduate
school and applied.
And it was very different frommy experience at UNT, polar
opposites.
(07:34):
So I went in and at UNTeverybody was like, oh, we're
one big family, it's you know,and it was great.
My experience was great and gotto OU and it was a very
different experience and Ididn't feel I didn't have that
kind of we're all family, we'reall creative folks.
It was it's theory, theory,theory.
(07:56):
But I knew that I had loved, Ijust had fallen in love with
anthropology and started lookingat different ways.
I wanted to, you know, bringthat into something new.
Still wasn't sure what I wasgoing to do.
The thought in the back of mymind is well, I will be able to,
(08:16):
you know, teach in a universitysetting and sit around and read
books all day, and that was notthe case.
But that's what I have.
It's like this is going to begreat.
I'm just going to read, read,read.
I'll teach what I want, we'lltalk about my favorite artwork,
I'll be able to infuse it.
But that was not the case.
(08:36):
But she was involved inresearch and working with other
communities and still being ableto teach and still infuse those
things that I like.
So people were like oh, youshould teach anthropology, and
I'm like I did, but my favoritecourses to teach were humanities
.
I mean, I love teaching thehumanities because I could talk
(09:00):
about, you know, kara Walker orKara Vaggio or any of my
favorite artists, and then Iwould always have them do a
portfolio of some sort thatincluded art pieces.
And so you know, I was likewell, this is great, I'm still
doing some anthropology, but I'mdoing it in my way.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
That's beautiful, that you could carve your path
that way, and it sounds like yourolled with the punches,
because what I was hearing washow you just had life happening
and you were ready to pivot.
You were ready to meet thechallenges head on and you
squeezed some lemonade out ofsome lemons.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Yes, absolutely.
I was ready to pivot and youknow, I think about my mom,
always says she's like, well,you get bored easily.
And I'm like no, I don't, Ijust have a lot of interest.
And she's like, no, I think youget bored easily.
She said you were this way as achild and you know, I think
about that now, as someone whois very senior in age, I'm
(10:07):
thinking do I get bored easilyor do I just have so many
interests and I think thatthere's so much to do.
You know there.
And she was like no, you arebored.
And I was telling her that Ibought a bass guitar.
Don't know the first thing aboutplaying the bass guitar, but I
have always wanted to playstring instruments.
(10:28):
My parents had another idea forme growing up.
They wanted me to be a flautist.
So they bought me a flute andhad me practice and practice and
practice and I was like I wantto play the guitar.
I was like I want to play theguitar.
And so, you know, as someonewho was exploring all of my
interests, I started to find Ihave a cello that I've named and
(10:53):
an acoustic guitar and mostrecently, that bass guitar.
And I was telling my mom.
She says I told you you getbored.
And I'm like, no, I just haveso many interests.
But I tell her, I'm like I canlook at you and she is very arts
driven.
I think she would have been anartist if she did not have to be
(11:15):
a homemaker, because she isvery artistic Her mother, my
grandmother, very artistic and Ithink she would have been an
artist.
And I'm like we have this kindof same thread that runs through
the women Her mother, mygrandmother, very artistic and I
think she would have been anartist.
And I'm like we have this kindof same thread that runs, you
know, through the women in ourfamily.
Because we've had to be, youknow, providers for children, we
(11:40):
kind of let that art piece go.
But for me it's just like well,I'm going to figure out a way to
bring it into everything I do.
And you know, thinking aboutthat, in those initial classes
that I was taking, those arthistory classes where you know
we were given projects to do andI would do a collage, and you
know I would be able to go outbecause I do photography and
(12:02):
just shoot things that wereinteresting to me.
It was, it just all made senseand I was able to take that and
to put it into that anthropologyas well.
So I told my mom I'm like wellthat that piece is there.
You all have had interest, butit's that you all, you know, put
that in a box and kind of justleft it because you, you know,
(12:25):
needed to take care of thefamily.
But for me, I've always been,I'm going to push the box, I'm
going to push the envelope, youknow.
I'm just going to see what Ican do to make sure that I can
make everything fit together.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
I don't sense an energy of boredom at all.
I think I'm really resonatingwith you because I have a great,
a lot of interests.
I mean, there's just so manythings that I would love to
experience and explore andthere's just not enough energy
(13:00):
or hours or you know enough ofme to go around.
So I do what I can do, but I'vebeen that way most of my life
and I've experienced boredom.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
it's a completely different energy now, and you
know, when you say that I wasjust like because I do, I would
ask myself am I just bored?
Um, and I would.
I kind of have a running jokewith my friends.
I'm like, well, if I'm bored,then I know I'm going to get
into trouble.
And they're like well, what areyou talking about?
(13:34):
I'm just like, well, let's nothave me get just been so much
that I've been interested inthat either.
You know, I wasn't allowed topursue something, you know, like
art history.
I love art history, I mean loveit.
But I would hear how are yougoing to sustain yourself?
(13:57):
You know, how are you going totake care of your children?
And that's one of the reasonswhy I got into education is
because you know I had two kids,that I needed to have a
schedule that aligned with theirschool schedule, you know.
And so maybe for me, now thatwe're having this conversation,
because I hadn't thought aboutit that way, maybe there was a
(14:18):
time when I was like, maybe mymom and my grandmother, I did
put that in a box, maybe my momand my grandmother where I did
put that in a box and then, asmy daughter was getting ready to
graduate, I was able to openthe lid of that box and I hadn't
thought about that until justnow that maybe there was that
(14:39):
time for me, like them, where Ijust put all of those interests
and things I wanted to pursue ina box and then, when I knew
that I could do so, then I justjumped both feet in and just
started exploring all thosethings that appealed to me.
And I still do that, you know.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
It's almost inescapable.
That's, that's what was modeled, what was imprinted, and I know
that it's the struggle that alot of the creatives that we
talk to deal with, where theyhave people that love them, that
try to steer them toward whatthey perceive as safe, and for
(15:17):
someone who is truly creative,safe is potentially the worst
thing that you can do foranything that really lights you
up.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Yeah, I completely agree, dwight, and I'm thinking
about that now and I'm just likewhoa did I just have a light
bulb moment where I'm justrecognizing that, because you
know that being in the classroom, being an educator, that was
very safe.
You know, that was consistent.
I know that I'm going to getpaid in the summer, I know that
I'm going to be off when thekids are off and then making
(15:56):
that pivot and really notknowing, okay, what is this
going to lead?
Where is this going to lead?
You know there's this level ofuncertainty that was there and
still, I mean, even though I'min this position at Texas
Folklife, I still try to carveout time.
Oh, I'm going to do thisbecause I have more freedom now
(16:18):
to do these things, but you know, there still is that there,
just a little bit like that.
I think if I wanted to go intoart full time, could I sustain
myself and what would that looklike now?
And would I be like astruggling artist?
Or you know, and I've been toldyou're very idealistic and
(16:39):
sometimes you're romanticizedthings and I don't think I do.
I'm just thinking of castingthis big vision, you know, and
I'm like, well, I don't know,that would be something I have
to think about.
But my daughter, she was likewell, why don't you stop doing
everything Because you love whatyou do when it comes to art?
And she said and just be anartist full time.
And I tell him, like Danielle,you know it's not going to pay
(17:01):
the bills right now, but it'sone of those things that I do
come back to.
You know, whether it's writingor writing poetry, or you know,
working on a collage, or justbeing able to go out and shoot
on a regular basis.
You know, and I'm shootingthings that people probably say
is that art, but it's art to me.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Yeah, good for you.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
I love that.
You know, one of the thingsthat you're sharing, or what I'm
hearing and I love this is wetalk to a lot of people who they
try to force things.
You know, you said when it cametime for your daughter to go
off to school, you were like,wow, I'm going to be an empty
nester.
I wonder what this is going tolook like.
(17:48):
I wonder what I'm going to do.
And instead of jumping in andjust trying to force something
to happen, I'm hearing that youjust were in a state of being
and you let the varying,different things present
themselves to you and you pickedthe one that was the shiniest,
(18:09):
the one that drew you in themost.
And what a beautiful way tomove through life.
I'm like sitting here going oh,I'm having a Harry Met Sally
moment where I want what she'shaving, because I'm not always
that way, I'm not always justsomebody that just says let's
just see where this takes me,and I wish I were more like that
(18:30):
.
And I'm hearing that from you.
And so I'm celebrating in thismoment because I just love what
you're sharing.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Well, I appreciate that, even with my position at
Texas Folk Life, I'm not surewhere it's going to take, and
that's one of the things that Iget asked.
They're like well, have you allfaced budget cuts?
Well, yes, we have.
Well, what does this look like?
You know, I don't know.
I am still dreaming that bigdream, not only for myself but
(18:59):
for the communities that we workin, and I'm trying to make sure
that art is accessible foreveryone, because I know the
impact that it not only thatit's had on me personally.
You know, I see the impact, andthen you'll hear me reference
my mom and grandmother a lot,but because they were true
(19:20):
artists and I just know, I mean,I know that for my mom, that's
what she would have done if shecould have, you know, and she
didn't have that opportunity.
And so I'm thinking, you know,making it accessible for those
folks who have always desired todo something creative.
(19:45):
That's what drives me at TexasFaux Fiber, when I'm working in
these rural communities, if it'san art desert, or if it's with
a youth group who they've neverheard of modeling clay, it's
that when you see their facelight up, when we're working
with aging communities, and yousee that something has sparked a
(20:07):
memory with them, whether it'sa musical selection or hearing a
piece of poetry.
For me, that, just that, justit drives me.
Because I do think, I thinkback to my mom, who you know now
she's she's up in age, butshe'll tell me all the time
she's like well, I got my newset of colors and she's making
(20:31):
these designs and it's somethingthat motivates her.
And she was in my care for awhile.
She's with my sister now.
And you know I asked her I'mlike well, if you could just go
back right now and take classesor continuing education, would
you do that?
(20:52):
And I could see her face lightup and she was thinking about it
.
She's like oh, I think I'm tooold or I'll be the oldest person
in class and I don't want to dothis.
She's like I'm fine just doingthis.
But I know in that second shewas considering it because she
didn't have that opportunity.
And you know I was like well,maybe we'll start slow.
(21:15):
And we went to the library andthis is rural Oklahoma.
We went to the library and Ihave a picture and I can send it
to you later that we were thereand I was like well, let's just
look at some art books.
You know, because she had neverbeen to a museum.
You know, all her life wasdedicated to my stepfather, who
(21:37):
was a very controlling person,and you know so, and she had
never had a library card.
And here she is in her 70s andwe're signing her up for a
library card and that day waslike she was probably 12 years
(21:58):
old again, because she was justlike look at all of these books
about art.
And she loves to cook.
And she says look at all ofthese books, these cookbooks.
And it was just so profound tome and to know that there are
other folks out there who havethose same kind of experiences,
(22:22):
that's what drives me, is toknow that if I can share that
with other folks, just the joythat it would bring them in that
moment.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
I listen to what you say, but I also have a tendency
to listen for what you don't say, and I hear things that you
don't say.
I know that sounds weird.
And I hear things that youdon't say.
I know that sounds weird, butI'm hearing you right now.
What I'm hearing that you'renot saying is that Grandma
didn't have the opportunity toreally be an artist and Mom
(22:58):
didn't have the opportunity.
And you have the opportunity.
And you're correct, you're right, you're right, and I think
about that you could see yourmom's face light up when you ask
(23:25):
her about that, if she could goback and redo it and her face
lit up.
Whole roadmap right there.
You know, like in that momentwhat came to me was she's not
saying it, but she'sdemonstrating in some way.
Jump on it.
Don't do what I did, you know,jump on it.
(23:47):
Don't do what I did, you know,jump on it.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Yeah, and that's what I tell my kids, because if you
don't?
Speaker 2 (23:52):
you'll always wonder.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Yes, I wonder that, for both my grandmother and my
mother, I think about that I waslike if things would have been
different because she was ayoung mom, she had me when she
was 17, and this is, you know,at a time when that just was not
popular and they were at aCatholic school and it was
(24:14):
really not popular for her tohave gotten pregnant and, you
know, to have me, and I thinkall the time, you know what if
circumstances would have beendifferent for her, where she
wouldn't have had to go into theworkforce and provide, and then
what if she didn't marry, youknow, my stepfather, who was
(24:37):
very, you know, controlling andshe, you know, wouldn't have had
to be the homemaker.
What if her circumstances wouldhave been different?
And I think about that probablyevery day because, you know, I
call and I check on her andshe's with my sister now and I
think what would her life havelooked like?
(24:59):
You know, and for me, herhappiness is something that I'm
always thinking about.
But, maddox, you said somethingand you said, you know,
thinking about that roadmap andlike her kind of this implicitly
or silently saying, just jumpon it, don't do it.
But that's the same thing Itell my daughter.
(25:21):
This is another conversationthat is really hitting home for
me now that we're having this,because I found myself saying
the same thing to my daughterthat many people have said to me
how are you going to take careof your family?
And I'm sure that's the samething that my mom heard.
And talking to my daughter,who's very much a creative and
(25:48):
plays all the instruments andshe paints and she writes and
she dances.
But in my mind I'm alwaysthinking is that going to be
enough to sustain her?
You know to like take care ofher financially and what is that
?
You know, how is that going toshape?
But then I'm also telling her Iwant you to be happy and what
you do, and I celebrate all thatshe does, you know, when it
(26:10):
comes to this artistic, creativeside of who she is.
But in the and there's thatlittle piece of me that says I
want you to be, you know, I wantto make sure that all is well
with you and that you are, youknow, able to take care of
yourself financially.
But now that we're talking, andI'm seeing it, it's like
(26:32):
there's like this continuum,this kind of this thread that
has happened across generations,you know, and I don't think I
really have thought about ituntil now now?
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Well, and something else that I see and this comes
up in several of ourconversations with our featured
guests we, as human beings, havea tendency to go through life
as if it's an either or, and itdoesn't have to be an either, or
.
It can be an and and, whenwe're willing to look at the and
it opens up possibilities forus that would have never been
(27:10):
available to us in a world ofeither or.
But even school teaches useither or.
It's either the right answer orit's the wrong answer, and we
go through life because of thetesting you were talking about.
It's all, there's one rightanswer, and it trains us to
think that there's one rightanswer in everything and in life
(27:31):
.
That's just not true.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
There are multiple right answers in life, but we
don't look at it that waybecause we've had a system
that's indoctrinated us into oneright answer.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
So true, we've had a couple of different people on
the podcast that one said youknow, I told myself when I
started coming up through theranks that I wasn't going to
only have one passion, I wasgoing to have two passions.
He claimed that for himself.
He has a corporate job wherehe's a tech person with
Microsoft and he loves his job.
On the other hand, he's anactor and now he's starting to
(28:13):
produce and he loves that andhe's finagled to get Microsoft
to be flexible with his scheduleso he can do all of the acting
and the producing.
And he said and I don't intendto give either one of them up, I
love both of them so much thatI'm going to do both of them.
And I thought, wow, there's the.
(28:37):
And.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
There's the and how have you either, dwight or
Maddox, how have y'all navigatedthat either?
Or Because once you're in thatframework and I'm speaking for
myself I think it's difficult tosay hey, hey, hey, let's press
pause and let's look at thingsdifferently, structure your time
(29:02):
differently so you can do thosethings that bring you the most
joy.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
Well, I'll say that I spent a lifetime inside the
matrix and, in a lot of ways, Igrew up in a household where we
did all the things to try toplay it safe, and I had to deal
with knowing that I didn't quitefit the template.
I was growing up as knowingthat I was gay in a broken home
(29:30):
where gay was not okay, but thatprepared me for an enlistment
during the height of the don'task, don't tell era.
So I was very well practicedand I had to conform with what
was accepted or acceptable forwhere I was, and that groomed me
(29:53):
for entering into corporatelife where I had to wear a
different hat at different timesand I was never free to be
exactly who I was.
Every bit of messaging had tobe through a specific lens
(30:15):
because there was a lot ofhedging.
We could be truthful but wecouldn't tell the absolute truth
because that might bump upagainst things that maybe
couldn't be revealed forregulatory reasons or for
proprietary reasons, and so I amwell-versed in what it is to
(30:35):
cloak myself for others' comfortor because that's just simply
the way it's done.
And some life experiences havemade it to where I had to deal
with loss.
I had to deal with being acaregiver during the pandemic
and I was scarred in ways thatI'm sure a lot of people had
(30:58):
things that they went through.
But I had to ask what was reallyimportant and I could
appreciate that there were somany things that I had been told
that I needed to pay attentionto that I didn't.
There were so many things that Iwas supposed to be led to
believe were of the utmostimportance that I knew were
(31:20):
inconsequential, because I grewto appreciate that the real
things that matter are ourconnections and our
relationships and we need totake time to invest hard on
those, really make it to wherewe elevate those things, because
chasing whatever momentaryrewards that might be weighed in
(31:43):
front of us will leave us empty.
That might be weighed in frontof us will leave us empty and we
will always regret not beingpresent, not making the time to
spend time with those who loveus and to make those memories.
And it makes it a lot easierfor me to figure out what it is.
(32:07):
I want to be moved by what itis that motivates me and it's
really hard because I'm not aseasily tricked.
Someone can lay out a dollarfigure and they're puzzled
because they're not sayinganything that speaks my language
.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Ooh, I got to say preach, brother, preach.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
No, I mean, that is so profound.
And you know, when you said,you know having to fit into, I'm
just going to say, a box or aframe to make others comfortable
, I know that I've done that.
I know that I do that in someof my relationships.
(32:51):
Still, you know, my husband nowwe've been married and divorced
to one another approximatelyfour times to one another, but's
it's, um, you know it has beenme fitting myself into a box to
(33:16):
make other people comfortable,um, and I know that I've done
that in in my relationship.
And you know, now we're at apoint where we're we say we're
so old now that it, you know,we're just going to be who we're
going to be and just be thebest versions of ourselves, not
necessarily for one another, butfor those adult kids that we
(33:38):
have and the grandchildren.
And we've come to this placewhere we can be who we're going
to be, completely opposite,completely different people.
But we're not trying to forcethat.
And I can look back and I waslike, well, that's why I didn't
work this time, or that's why Ididn't work that time.
(33:58):
It's me feeling like I'mshrinking myself to fit into
this spot, that I don't belong,and it creates this frustration
and him feeling like he'sshrinking himself to be in this
spot that he didn't ask to be inand it creates this frustration
.
And so, you know, we never gotit right up until now and just
(34:21):
completely okay with being whowe are.
I feel so privileged, blessed,to be in a position where, at
Texas Swept by 4, I don't haveto shrink to do that and I can
truly be my authentic self, nomatter what that looks like, you
know, or how that comes acrossin Texas or Oklahoma.
(34:44):
It's just who I am and I'mcomfortable with that.
That's one thing I can say.
The only thing that my motherand my grandmother ever said is
that everybody's not going toview you the same and just to be
aware of that.
You know come from a mixed,multi-ethnic household and they
were like people are not goingto know how to take you, and
(35:07):
just be aware of that.
But they never tried to changeum, who I was or you know, just
as this kind of wild kid thatyou know would just be running
barefoot down the street orwhatever I want.
They never changed, they neverwanted to change that.
They didn't want me to be awareof the perception of others and
(35:29):
how that could impact me.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
They gave you quite a gift.
That's a big gift.
You asked a minute ago abouthow we had navigated the either
or or the, and I don't thinkI've only had language for that
in the last few years, but I canlook back and see that much of
(35:54):
my adult life was an and insteadof either or.
I was a hairdresser, makeupartist for 40 years and I always
had projects on the side.
I studied photography and shotprofessionally.
(36:17):
At one point, I plannedweddings professionally.
I got specialized training inhypnosis and did hypnosis for a
period of time, and I've studiedand done coaching on and off
for the last almost 20 years.
It's never really been aneither, or it's been an and for
(36:43):
me, and I don't know exactly howI did that.
To be real honest, it wasn't aconscious, intentional decision,
it was just kind of the way itunfolded.
And now I can look back and see, with those clear eyes and a
(37:07):
language to be able to describeit, that I was choosing the, and
I can clearly see it.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
You know, I see that from my very first conversation
that is, the thing thatresonated with me is that you
all were doing your and and Ileft that initial meeting.
It's the first time meeting youall and I thought I want to
make sure that I can.
I didn't have the language forit until you're saying the and
(37:37):
now I want to make, I want to beable to do that.
I want to just, you know, beable to do that, and I know that
I'm doing that to some degree,but I want to do that fully.
And, Dwight, it's somethingthat you were that you mentioned
about the relationships.
And after that, after thatevening, like I have friends
that I know that they're alwaysgoing to be my friends, no
(38:00):
matter what I mean through thickand thin, and we may go years
without speaking and I will say,oh, I'm so busy, I'm so busy.
But I left that night and Ireached out to two of my closest
friends that have been with methrough you name it and I'm just
like, hey, I'm just reachingout to see how you're doing,
(38:21):
Because I wanted to rekindlethose relationships and I
started thinking about all ofthe beautiful relationships that
I could have had along theyears, but I put them aside for,
whether it was, you know, thatrelationship didn't fit this
time period or what have you.
(38:42):
And I didn't have the languagefor it, I didn't know what I was
doing, but I just knew that,hey, I want to interact with
different folks.
I want to.
You know, if a relationship, ifsomething is presented to me
where I can be my authentic selfand that individual or those
individuals are their authenticself, then I want that, I want
(39:06):
to have those conversations, Iwant to do dinners, and I have
not done that before.
And I called my friend and shewas like are you okay?
I'm like, yeah, I'm fine.
She was like, because this isnot what you normally do.
I may hear from you during theholidays, but she's like this is
just out of the blue.
And I said I want to.
We've been friends but I wantto deepen that connection.
(39:30):
You know, I want to be present.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
And now I feel like I'm in my and era where I'm like
yes, I'm going to do this, andI'm going to do this and I'm
going to go to lunch with thisperson and we're going to have
breakfast, and we're just, youknow, and I feel like I'm in my
and era.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
It's a different animal, isn't?
Speaker 2 (39:57):
it?
Mm-hmm, I want to.
May I have permission to letyou in on a little secret?
Yes, you said a minute ago thatyou wanted to make room for
those places where you couldfully be authentic, and the
secret is you don't look forthem, you don't find them.
(40:18):
The secret is that you createthem.
And the way you do that is youjust show up everywhere you go
authentic.
And I mean this really hasbecome my superpower, because I
realized that when I show upeverywhere, I go fully authentic
.
It is a polarizer and it is ina polarizer in the most
(40:40):
beautiful way.
You know, you think about apolarizer as being good or bad
or in or out Polarizer.
Is that extreme?
And yes it is.
But there's something magicalabout authenticity.
Polarizers of all differentother kinds may not be this way,
but with authenticity, when youshow up truly authentic, it
(41:05):
will draw a very specific typeof person to you and they will
be authentic and they will beyour people and they will be
your people.
And then it's going to be onthe other end of that continuum,
that polarization is going tobe the people that your
(41:27):
authenticity makes them veryuncomfortable because they're
not authentic, and it will sendthem away.
It will literally push themaway, which is a beautiful thing
because they're not your people.
If they were, they wouldn't begoing away.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
That's that.
That's very profound.
And I think for me, you know,I've always had like, when
people would go away, I was like, well, what did I do?
You know, maybe I was too muchof this or I was too over the
top here, or what did you know,what did I do?
(42:09):
And I always, you know, wouldsay well, I know that I think I
have a problem with loss, butit's what you said.
And I have started to walk inthis, like if they're not with
me, if they don't embrace who Iam, then they're not for me.
(42:29):
That's like you said they'renot my people.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
They're not my people and I don't even give it a
second thought.
I let them go.
But what I have done is I'vegotten to where, when somebody
walks away, I'm like Because inthat moment they made more space
(42:54):
for the person that is mypeople, that wants to come and
sit right next to me.
You know, we only have so muchtime and space in our lives and
if we're spending it with peoplethat aren't really our people
and we're shoving ourselves likea square peg into a round hole
(43:14):
to try to make it all work,there's no room for our true
people to be there, becausewe're with misfit people.
That's true.
It's like once you see it, youcan't unsee it.
You know, once you see thebeauty of how it really works,
you know, when somebody doesn'tcall back or they don't respond,
I go not my people next, thankyou, because in that moment now
I'm going to, I make it a pointto focus on the people who are
(43:35):
my people, who do want to comeand sit right next to me.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
And.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
I don't give any energy or oxygen to those that
drift away or don't show up, ornothing wrong with them, they're
just not my people.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
And I like that.
You know, I like that because Ithink it's taken me a while to
get to that, because, like Isaid, I'm just like well, did I
say something?
Did I do something?
You know, was I dressed acertain way?
But no, and it's.
I'm just like they were in myspheres for a season.
(44:16):
I'm sure that they've taught mesome type of lesson along the
way, but they're not my people,they're not who.
You know.
If I needed to pick up thephone and just say, hey, can we
just have a chat or can we justgo to lunch?
And there's no agenda, there'sno you know purpose, it's just I
(44:39):
want to share time with you, Iwant to be with you, you know,
and it's taken me a while toembrace that, to say it's okay
for me to want just no agenda,no topic, just hey, I just want
to spend time with you, that'sit.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
You know, I haven't gotten to the end of my life yet
, so I don't know exactly whatit's going to be like, but I've
thought about it a lot, and whenI'm on that deathbed, where I'm
minutes away from my finalbreath, I don't think I'm going
to be thinking about myachievements.
I'm going to be thinking aboutmy achievements.
(45:23):
I think that I'm going to be100% focused on the people who
love me and who I have loved.
The older I get, the more and Isay this all the time people
are our greatest resource.
Aside from food, water andoxygen, people are our greatest
resource, but we do not treatthem like they're our greatest
(45:44):
resource, If anything, you mayhave the energy to contain one
question, and that is did itmatter?
Speaker 3 (46:01):
Did you live your best life?
Did you laugh?
Did you love?
Speaker 1 (46:12):
Did you contribute, and that's.
You know, I think about that asI watched.
You know, friends go through avariety of things lost friends
to, you know, to AIDS and in thepandemic and just a host of
things.
And using that wordpolarization I thought, when it
(46:37):
is my time to transition towherever that may be, you know,
I want to look back and think.
You know, I love that person.
That person loved me.
We had a blast, maybe we didn'tdisagree or maybe we didn't
agree on this, but we loved oneanother and we were our you know
our true selves, in whateverway that looked like.
(47:01):
And you know, I know that thesepeople have impacted me and I've
impacted them, and that's whatI think about and have started
to think about that more so.
As you know, the schedule isalways going to be there, the
work is always going to be there.
As you know, the schedule isalways going to be there, the
work is always going to be there.
But am I really carving outthose moments to be with people
(47:24):
that I enjoy, to be with peoplethat they just, you know, are a
breath of fresh air to be around?
And I've started thinking aboutthat more because I'm, like you
know, a large part of my lifewas caregiving, and then it
transitioned into something elseand doing things that I just
wanted to do, and then I waslike I think I got a little bit
comfortable in just doingwhatever I wanted to do, but
(47:50):
still being very busy and notcarving out time to really be
with people, and knowing that Ilove being with people.
I mean I'm always like who can Icall to go on a road trip?
You know what can we do?
Or who can you know, who can wego and see while we're on this
(48:14):
road trip?
And I'm starting to think aboutthat more especially as I get
older is that I want to bearound people.
I want to be in community withothers.
I want to break bread.
I want to have people come andsit at my table and just share
in these moments that are notquantifiable by you know how
much money you're going to makeor what car you drive.
It's just us and we're talkingand we're laughing or we're
(48:40):
crying or whatever that may be.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
As I have stepped more into my authenticity and my
vulnerability.
Those people have shown up inmasses Like there's more amazing
people around me than I couldever spend quality time with.
That's the hard part, and Iwant to spend time with all.
We meet so many amazing peopleI mean just amazing people that
(49:08):
I yes, I want to go and sitright next to them, and we
managed to do some of it, butthere's just not an.
I wish I could clone myself.
I know so many amazing peopleand speaking of, it is time for
(49:29):
us to draw this session to aclose.
It is so.
We have one.
You probably heard it twoepisodes ago we save one big,
the big question to the end.
And today's big question foryou is in your current creative
life, what is the biggest painpoint?
(49:51):
And by that I mean thatchallenge, if it were solved,
would be a game changer in yourcreative journey.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Time.
That would be a game changerfor me, because that is one of
the things that I think, oh, youknow, in my creative life, in
my creative journey, and I wasjust saying this this morning I
was talking to a friend and I'mlike you know what?
I am blocking all Fridays andthat is going to be my writing
day.
I'm like I'm going to carve outsome time.
(50:25):
I'm not going to make an excuseand that will be the day that,
you know, I dig into my clay.
I got into pottery last year andI did not realize it was a
messy endeavor and everybodymade a joke and they were like,
oh, my goodness, how are yougoing to work through this,
because you like everything soneat and orderly, digging my
(50:47):
hand in that clay and it's messyand I lose track of all time
and person and place.
And it's me in the clay and I'mthinking, and so I've told
(51:10):
myself I'm going to block offsome time.
I don't have to work a 16-hourday.
I do many times, but I don'thave to do that.
Do many times, but I don't haveto do that.
I'm going to give myself timeand that's going to be a gift to
me is giving myself time.
Speaker 2 (51:25):
It is a gift that gives back more than most people
realize.
I've started painting I'dstarted before, a few years ago
and then I've gone for manyyears without painting and I
started painting again in thelast couple of three months and
it's just as exactly as you say.
You know, it's just me and thepaint and everything else.
The rest of the world just goesaway.
(51:46):
And it's such, this amazinggift.
It nurtures my soul in a waythat I haven't experienced
before.
It didn't nurture my soul likethis the first time I tried
painting.
I haven't experienced before.
It didn't nurture my soul likethis the first time I tried
painting.
But now making that time, youknow, once again, we've got our
podcast and this business, thisstartup that we're working to
really get up and running, andI'm making time to paint because
(52:10):
my soul is screaming.
Please, please, please, please.
Speaker 1 (52:16):
I want to create and I found that being creative or
being really doing those thingswhere you know I am digging into
whatever art form it is thatI'm a much better person for
everyone else that I interactwith.
I agree completely.
I am a much better person andit's because I have that
creative outlet outlet, whetherit's collage or whether it's
(52:38):
picking up the camera or clay.
Speaker 2 (52:41):
when I come out of them they're like oh, you're a
different person it's like theweight of the world has just
it's gone away well, and Alicia,you're not the first person to
say time.
I think that that's maybe we'regoing to find this partially
universal.
This has been wonderful.
We do have to wrap becausewe've got another appointment in
(53:03):
less than two minutes, but thishas been such an enjoyable
conversation.
I have so enjoyed getting toknow you better and you know
when you're thinking about allthose people you want to hang
out with.
We hope you reach out to us.
I will.
We would love to hang out withyou.
I will.
We're here in the same city.
(53:24):
We need to make that happen.
Speaker 1 (53:27):
Yes, yes, we will.
I will do that and thank youfor inviting me.
I have been looking forward toit.
I put it on all my I'm oldschool, I still write things on
the calendar, but I put it onall my calendars.
I was like, oh, that's going tobe again that gift of time to
myself where I can just be withthe two of you, and I was like
I've been looking forward to it.
Speaker 2 (53:49):
Well, this is the tip of the iceberg.
We'll have more conversations.
Speaker 1 (53:53):
We will Thank you all .
Speaker 2 (53:55):
Thank you.
I'm not sure where it's going to take him.
That's one of the things that,you know, I get asked.
They're like well, have you allfaced budget cuts?
Well, yes, we have, but whatdoes this look like?
You know, I don't know.
I'm still dreaming that bigdream.
I'm not only for myself, butyou know, for the't know, I'm
still dreaming that big dream.
I'm not only for myself, but,you know, for the communities
that we work in, and I'm tryingto make sure that art is
(00:31):
accessible for everyone.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Hello.
Yes, you guessed it, it'sMaddox and Dwight.
We're the Connections inCommunity, guys, and we're here
to bring you another absolutelyfabulous episode of.
For the Love of Creatives, ourguest today is Alicia Oliver.
Welcome, alicia.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Thank you.
Thank you, dwight Maddox, andjust everyone.
Thank you for inviting me.
I was really looking forward tobeing able to sit with you all
and just have a conversation,and you know I've always enjoyed
just being able to talk topeople.
I'm a people person, so thankyou, thank you.
(01:24):
Thank you for having people.
I'm a people person, so thankyou, thank you.
Thank you for having me.
A little bit about me I am theexecutive director at Texas
Folklife.
I've been with them for aboutthree years.
We are a folk arts nonprofitfor the state of Texas.
I am in the DFW area.
I have team members that arescattered throughout the state
(01:47):
and you know we are.
Our mission is to reallycelebrate and amplify the voices
of folk arts and folk leadersand traditional artists
throughout the state and makingsure that they have that
platform.
And so that's a little bitabout me.
By training, I am a bioculturalanthropologist and so I know
(02:11):
people are like well, how doesthat intersection happen,
anthropology and art and makethat make sense?
And so I know we'll probablytalk a little bit about that
journey as well.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Well, and it was a fellow anthropologist that
introduced you to us.
Former featured guest JaneBaldwin was having you at the
Leadership Arts Institutereception.
Yes, I have to say that slowlybecause it doesn't roll off my
(02:44):
tongue easy yet, but yes, thatwas delightful.
We absolutely love Jane.
She's a really neat person.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Yeah, she is.
I'm so happy that she made thatintroduction.
She and I were members of thesame cohort.
For you know, again, I'm alwaysthinking of is it BCA, is it
LAI, but it's the LeadershipArts.
You know, that institute thatwe participated in and I'm
(03:15):
always surprised when I, youknow, meet a fellow
anthropologist and Jane is anarchaeologist but we're under
that same umbrella, and when wewere having the conversation and
she's like you know, I'm anarchaeologist but we're under
that same umbrella, and when wewere having the conversation and
she's like you know, I'm anarchaeologist, I'm like no way,
because for me it's usually rareand we just hit it off.
So to see her in her role as anarchaeologist, and then, you
(03:38):
know, in this creative space,I'm like, oh, I'm not the only
one that's out here, and so thatwas really pleasing.
But when she introduced us, Iwas just like I felt that
chemistry there, that connection, and I was like this is going
to be great, you know, to beable to just be in fellowship
with two like-minded folks.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Yeah, we definitely felt it as well as soon as she
introduced us, and that's theway so many of our people come
to us is we either getintroduced or we're people
people also so we're out andabout all the time meeting
mostly creatives.
We do a lot of stuff that hasto do with art and other forms
of creativity.
(04:21):
So well, let's jump in and findout a little bit more of your
story, since you kind of startedthere.
Why don't you tell us howanthropology fit into that whole
creative scene for you?
Speaker 1 (04:38):
You know, anthropology, I say, was a happy
accident for me.
I had been a veteran educatorin the public school system for
almost 20 years and I just feltmyself like being very
dissatisfied with teaching kidsto pass a standardized test.
(05:00):
You know it's like is that?
You know it's different fromwhen I was in school and I'm not
going to sit here and agemyself, but I probably did just
now, but it was.
I was like they're not, it'snot true learning, because it's
all about getting them to passthis state mandated exam.
And love teaching, love beingin the classroom.
(05:24):
But you know, there was at atime where I was about to be an
empty nester as well and I waslike what am I going to do with?
What am I going to do?
You know, I love being in theclassroom.
I love my kiddos, not reallyhappy with the state mandated
test, my daughter's about tograduate, so what am I going to
(05:47):
do with my time?
And I started taking justrandom classes, everything from
a return to art history, whichI've always loved, and stumbled
upon anthropology, stumbled uponanthropology, and I had a
(06:09):
professor and I was like well,you know, I think I want to
travel and I want to go to allthese museums.
I want to do this and that.
And he was like, well, you wantto do a lot, you know.
He's like, well, have youlooked at anthropology?
And I was like, no, because atthe time, you know, I knew
archaeology and I knew how thatfit into the scope of things.
But I was like, well, whatwould I do with anthropology?
(06:30):
And so I took sort of takingclasses at UNT and fell in love
with it and I'm like, oh, thisis everything that I have ever
been interested in.
It has to do with differentcultures and communities and
just their whole life ways andthe art and the food and the
music.
And I was like this is great.
(06:50):
And continued on with thoseclasses and got a second
bachelor's degree inanthropology.
And then my daughter was gettingready to graduate and it was
like, well, now what?
And I would still.
That thought is what am I goingto do?
Am I going to travel?
Am I going to see if I'm goingto do any kind of museum work?
(07:13):
What does this look like?
Am I going to go to graduateschool?
And I had family in Oklahoma.
I tell people I am a Texas girlwith Oklahoma roots, deep
Oklahoma roots and I was like,well, maybe I'll go to graduate
school and applied.
And it was very different frommy experience at UNT, polar
opposites.
(07:34):
So I went in and at UNTeverybody was like, oh, we're
one big family, it's you know,and it was great.
My experience was great and gotto OU and it was a very
different experience and Ididn't feel I didn't have that
kind of we're all family, we'reall creative folks.
It was it's theory, theory,theory.
(07:56):
But I knew that I had loved, Ijust had fallen in love with
anthropology and started lookingat different ways.
I wanted to, you know, bringthat into something new.
Still wasn't sure what I wasgoing to do.
The thought in the back of mymind is well, I will be able to,
(08:16):
you know, teach in a universitysetting and sit around and read
books all day, and that was notthe case.
But that's what I have.
It's like this is going to begreat.
I'm just going to read, read,read.
I'll teach what I want, we'lltalk about my favorite artwork,
I'll be able to infuse it.
But that was not the case.
(08:36):
But she was involved inresearch and working with other
communities and still being ableto teach and still infuse those
things that I like.
So people were like oh, youshould teach anthropology, and
I'm like I did, but my favoritecourses to teach were humanities
.
I mean, I love teaching thehumanities because I could talk
(09:00):
about, you know, kara Walker orKara Vaggio or any of my
favorite artists, and then Iwould always have them do a
portfolio of some sort thatincluded art pieces.
And so you know, I was likewell, this is great, I'm still
doing some anthropology, but I'mdoing it in my way.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
That's beautiful, that you could carve your path
that way, and it sounds like yourolled with the punches,
because what I was hearing washow you just had life happening
and you were ready to pivot.
You were ready to meet thechallenges head on and you
squeezed some lemonade out ofsome lemons.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Yes, absolutely.
I was ready to pivot and youknow, I think about my mom,
always says she's like, well,you get bored easily.
And I'm like no, I don't, Ijust have a lot of interest.
And she's like, no, I think youget bored easily.
She said you were this way as achild and you know, I think
about that now, as someone whois very senior in age, I'm
(10:07):
thinking do I get bored easilyor do I just have so many
interests and I think thatthere's so much to do.
You know there.
And she was like no, you arebored.
And I was telling her that Ibought a bass guitar.
Don't know the first thing aboutplaying the bass guitar, but I
have always wanted to playstring instruments.
(10:28):
My parents had another idea forme growing up.
They wanted me to be a flautist.
So they bought me a flute andhad me practice and practice and
practice and I was like I wantto play the guitar.
I was like I want to play theguitar.
And so, you know, as someonewho was exploring all of my
interests, I started to find Ihave a cello that I've named and
(10:53):
an acoustic guitar and mostrecently, that bass guitar.
And I was telling my mom.
She says I told you you getbored.
And I'm like, no, I just haveso many interests.
But I tell her, I'm like I canlook at you and she is very arts
driven.
I think she would have been anartist if she did not have to be
(11:15):
a homemaker, because she isvery artistic Her mother, my
grandmother, very artistic and Ithink she would have been an
artist.
And I'm like we have this kindof same thread that runs through
the women Her mother, mygrandmother, very artistic and I
think she would have been anartist.
And I'm like we have this kindof same thread that runs, you
know, through the women in ourfamily.
Because we've had to be, youknow, providers for children, we
(11:40):
kind of let that art piece go.
But for me it's just like well,I'm going to figure out a way to
bring it into everything I do.
And you know, thinking aboutthat, in those initial classes
that I was taking, those arthistory classes where you know
we were given projects to do andI would do a collage, and you
know I would be able to go outbecause I do photography and
(12:02):
just shoot things that wereinteresting to me.
It was, it just all made senseand I was able to take that and
to put it into that anthropologyas well.
So I told my mom I'm like wellthat that piece is there.
You all have had interest, butit's that you all, you know, put
that in a box and kind of justleft it because you, you know,
(12:25):
needed to take care of thefamily.
But for me, I've always been,I'm going to push the box, I'm
going to push the envelope, youknow.
I'm just going to see what Ican do to make sure that I can
make everything fit together.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
I don't sense an energy of boredom at all.
I think I'm really resonatingwith you because I have a great,
a lot of interests.
I mean, there's just so manythings that I would love to
experience and explore andthere's just not enough energy
(13:00):
or hours or you know enough ofme to go around.
So I do what I can do, but I'vebeen that way most of my life
and I've experienced boredom.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
it's a completely different energy now, and you
know, when you say that I wasjust like because I do, I would
ask myself am I just bored?
Um, and I would.
I kind of have a running jokewith my friends.
I'm like, well, if I'm bored,then I know I'm going to get
into trouble.
And they're like well, what areyou talking about?
(13:34):
I'm just like, well, let's nothave me get just been so much
that I've been interested inthat either.
You know, I wasn't allowed topursue something, you know, like
art history.
I love art history, I mean loveit.
But I would hear how are yougoing to sustain yourself?
(13:57):
You know, how are you going totake care of your children?
And that's one of the reasonswhy I got into education is
because you know I had two kids,that I needed to have a
schedule that aligned with theirschool schedule, you know.
And so maybe for me, now thatwe're having this conversation,
because I hadn't thought aboutit that way, maybe there was a
(14:18):
time when I was like, maybe mymom and my grandmother, I did
put that in a box, maybe my momand my grandmother where I did
put that in a box and then, asmy daughter was getting ready to
graduate, I was able to openthe lid of that box and I hadn't
thought about that until justnow that maybe there was that
(14:39):
time for me, like them, where Ijust put all of those interests
and things I wanted to pursue ina box and then, when I knew
that I could do so, then I justjumped both feet in and just
started exploring all thosethings that appealed to me.
And I still do that, you know.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
It's almost inescapable.
That's, that's what was modeled, what was imprinted, and I know
that it's the struggle that alot of the creatives that we
talk to deal with, where theyhave people that love them, that
try to steer them toward whatthey perceive as safe, and for
(15:17):
someone who is truly creative,safe is potentially the worst
thing that you can do foranything that really lights you
up.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Yeah, I completely agree, dwight, and I'm thinking
about that now and I'm just likewhoa did I just have a light
bulb moment where I'm justrecognizing that, because you
know that being in the classroom, being an educator, that was
very safe.
You know, that was consistent.
I know that I'm going to getpaid in the summer, I know that
I'm going to be off when thekids are off and then making
(15:56):
that pivot and really notknowing, okay, what is this
going to lead?
Where is this going to lead?
You know there's this level ofuncertainty that was there and
still, I mean, even though I'min this position at Texas
Folklife, I still try to carveout time.
Oh, I'm going to do thisbecause I have more freedom now
(16:18):
to do these things, but you know, there still is that there,
just a little bit like that.
I think if I wanted to go intoart full time, could I sustain
myself and what would that looklike now?
And would I be like astruggling artist?
Or you know, and I've been toldyou're very idealistic and
(16:39):
sometimes you're romanticizedthings and I don't think I do.
I'm just thinking of castingthis big vision, you know, and
I'm like, well, I don't know,that would be something I have
to think about.
But my daughter, she was likewell, why don't you stop doing
everything Because you love whatyou do when it comes to art?
And she said and just be anartist full time.
And I tell him, like Danielle,you know it's not going to pay
(17:01):
the bills right now, but it'sone of those things that I do
come back to.
You know, whether it's writingor writing poetry, or you know,
working on a collage, or justbeing able to go out and shoot
on a regular basis.
You know, and I'm shootingthings that people probably say
is that art, but it's art to me.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Yeah, good for you.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
I love that.
You know, one of the thingsthat you're sharing, or what I'm
hearing and I love this is wetalk to a lot of people who they
try to force things.
You know, you said when it cametime for your daughter to go
off to school, you were like,wow, I'm going to be an empty
nester.
I wonder what this is going tolook like.
(17:48):
I wonder what I'm going to do.
And instead of jumping in andjust trying to force something
to happen, I'm hearing that youjust were in a state of being
and you let the varying,different things present
themselves to you and you pickedthe one that was the shiniest,
(18:09):
the one that drew you in themost.
And what a beautiful way tomove through life.
I'm like sitting here going oh,I'm having a Harry Met Sally
moment where I want what she'shaving, because I'm not always
that way, I'm not always justsomebody that just says let's
just see where this takes me,and I wish I were more like that
(18:30):
.
And I'm hearing that from you.
And so I'm celebrating in thismoment because I just love what
you're sharing.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Well, I appreciate that, even with my position at
Texas Folk Life, I'm not surewhere it's going to take, and
that's one of the things that Iget asked.
They're like well, have you allfaced budget cuts?
Well, yes, we have.
Well, what does this look like?
You know, I don't know.
I am still dreaming that bigdream, not only for myself but
(18:59):
for the communities that we workin, and I'm trying to make sure
that art is accessible foreveryone, because I know the
impact that it not only thatit's had on me personally.
You know, I see the impact, andthen you'll hear me reference
my mom and grandmother a lot,but because they were true
(19:20):
artists and I just know, I mean,I know that for my mom, that's
what she would have done if shecould have, you know, and she
didn't have that opportunity.
And so I'm thinking, you know,making it accessible for those
folks who have always desired todo something creative.
(19:45):
That's what drives me at TexasFaux Fiber, when I'm working in
these rural communities, if it'san art desert, or if it's with
a youth group who they've neverheard of modeling clay, it's
that when you see their facelight up, when we're working
with aging communities, and yousee that something has sparked a
(20:07):
memory with them, whether it'sa musical selection or hearing a
piece of poetry.
For me, that, just that, justit drives me.
Because I do think, I thinkback to my mom, who you know now
she's she's up in age, butshe'll tell me all the time
she's like well, I got my newset of colors and she's making
(20:31):
these designs and it's somethingthat motivates her.
And she was in my care for awhile.
She's with my sister now.
And you know I asked her I'mlike well, if you could just go
back right now and take classesor continuing education, would
you do that?
(20:52):
And I could see her face lightup and she was thinking about it
.
She's like oh, I think I'm tooold or I'll be the oldest person
in class and I don't want to dothis.
She's like I'm fine just doingthis.
But I know in that second shewas considering it because she
didn't have that opportunity.
And you know I was like well,maybe we'll start slow.
(21:15):
And we went to the library andthis is rural Oklahoma.
We went to the library and Ihave a picture and I can send it
to you later that we were thereand I was like well, let's just
look at some art books.
You know, because she had neverbeen to a museum.
You know, all her life wasdedicated to my stepfather, who
(21:37):
was a very controlling person,and you know so, and she had
never had a library card.
And here she is in her 70s andwe're signing her up for a
library card and that day waslike she was probably 12 years
(21:58):
old again, because she was justlike look at all of these books
about art.
And she loves to cook.
And she says look at all ofthese books, these cookbooks.
And it was just so profound tome and to know that there are
other folks out there who havethose same kind of experiences,
(22:22):
that's what drives me, is toknow that if I can share that
with other folks, just the joythat it would bring them in that
moment.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
I listen to what you say, but I also have a tendency
to listen for what you don't say, and I hear things that you
don't say.
I know that sounds weird.
And I hear things that youdon't say.
I know that sounds weird, butI'm hearing you right now.
What I'm hearing that you'renot saying is that Grandma
didn't have the opportunity toreally be an artist and Mom
(22:58):
didn't have the opportunity.
And you have the opportunity.
And you're correct, you're right, you're right, and I think
about that you could see yourmom's face light up when you ask
(23:25):
her about that, if she could goback and redo it and her face
lit up.
Whole roadmap right there.
You know, like in that momentwhat came to me was she's not
saying it, but she'sdemonstrating in some way.
Jump on it.
Don't do what I did, you know,jump on it.
(23:47):
Don't do what I did, you know,jump on it.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Yeah, and that's what I tell my kids, because if you
don't?
Speaker 2 (23:52):
you'll always wonder.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Yes, I wonder that, for both my grandmother and my
mother, I think about that I waslike if things would have been
different because she was ayoung mom, she had me when she
was 17, and this is, you know,at a time when that just was not
popular and they were at aCatholic school and it was
(24:14):
really not popular for her tohave gotten pregnant and, you
know, to have me, and I thinkall the time, you know what if
circumstances would have beendifferent for her, where she
wouldn't have had to go into theworkforce and provide, and then
what if she didn't marry, youknow, my stepfather, who was
(24:37):
very, you know, controlling andshe, you know, wouldn't have had
to be the homemaker.
What if her circumstances wouldhave been different?
And I think about that probablyevery day because, you know, I
call and I check on her andshe's with my sister now and I
think what would her life havelooked like?
(24:59):
You know, and for me, herhappiness is something that I'm
always thinking about.
But, maddox, you said somethingand you said, you know,
thinking about that roadmap andlike her kind of this implicitly
or silently saying, just jumpon it, don't do it.
But that's the same thing Itell my daughter.
(25:21):
This is another conversationthat is really hitting home for
me now that we're having this,because I found myself saying
the same thing to my daughterthat many people have said to me
how are you going to take careof your family?
And I'm sure that's the samething that my mom heard.
And talking to my daughter,who's very much a creative and
(25:48):
plays all the instruments andshe paints and she writes and
she dances.
But in my mind I'm alwaysthinking is that going to be
enough to sustain her?
You know to like take care ofher financially and what is that
?
You know, how is that going toshape?
But then I'm also telling her Iwant you to be happy and what
you do, and I celebrate all thatshe does, you know, when it
(26:10):
comes to this artistic, creativeside of who she is.
But in the and there's thatlittle piece of me that says I
want you to be, you know, I wantto make sure that all is well
with you and that you are, youknow, able to take care of
yourself financially.
But now that we're talking, andI'm seeing it, it's like
(26:32):
there's like this continuum,this kind of this thread that
has happened across generations,you know, and I don't think I
really have thought about ituntil now now?
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Well, and something else that I see and this comes
up in several of ourconversations with our featured
guests we, as human beings, havea tendency to go through life
as if it's an either or, and itdoesn't have to be an either, or
.
It can be an and and, whenwe're willing to look at the and
it opens up possibilities forus that would have never been
(27:10):
available to us in a world ofeither or.
But even school teaches useither or.
It's either the right answer orit's the wrong answer, and we
go through life because of thetesting you were talking about.
It's all, there's one rightanswer, and it trains us to
think that there's one rightanswer in everything and in life
(27:31):
.
That's just not true.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
There are multiple right answers in life, but we
don't look at it that waybecause we've had a system
that's indoctrinated us into oneright answer.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
So true, we've had a couple of different people on
the podcast that one said youknow, I told myself when I
started coming up through theranks that I wasn't going to
only have one passion, I wasgoing to have two passions.
He claimed that for himself.
He has a corporate job wherehe's a tech person with
Microsoft and he loves his job.
On the other hand, he's anactor and now he's starting to
(28:13):
produce and he loves that andhe's finagled to get Microsoft
to be flexible with his scheduleso he can do all of the acting
and the producing.
And he said and I don't intendto give either one of them up, I
love both of them so much thatI'm going to do both of them.
And I thought, wow, there's the.
(28:37):
And.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
There's the and how have you either, dwight or
Maddox, how have y'all navigatedthat either?
Or Because once you're in thatframework and I'm speaking for
myself I think it's difficult tosay hey, hey, hey, let's press
pause and let's look at thingsdifferently, structure your time
(29:02):
differently so you can do thosethings that bring you the most
joy.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
Well, I'll say that I spent a lifetime inside the
matrix and, in a lot of ways, Igrew up in a household where we
did all the things to try toplay it safe, and I had to deal
with knowing that I didn't quitefit the template.
I was growing up as knowingthat I was gay in a broken home
(29:30):
where gay was not okay, but thatprepared me for an enlistment
during the height of the don'task, don't tell era.
So I was very well practicedand I had to conform with what
was accepted or acceptable forwhere I was, and that groomed me
(29:53):
for entering into corporatelife where I had to wear a
different hat at different timesand I was never free to be
exactly who I was.
Every bit of messaging had tobe through a specific lens
(30:15):
because there was a lot ofhedging.
We could be truthful but wecouldn't tell the absolute truth
because that might bump upagainst things that maybe
couldn't be revealed forregulatory reasons or for
proprietary reasons, and so I amwell-versed in what it is to
(30:35):
cloak myself for others' comfortor because that's just simply
the way it's done.
And some life experiences havemade it to where I had to deal
with loss.
I had to deal with being acaregiver during the pandemic
and I was scarred in ways thatI'm sure a lot of people had
(30:58):
things that they went through.
But I had to ask what was reallyimportant and I could
appreciate that there were somany things that I had been told
that I needed to pay attentionto that I didn't.
There were so many things that Iwas supposed to be led to
believe were of the utmostimportance that I knew were
(31:20):
inconsequential, because I grewto appreciate that the real
things that matter are ourconnections and our
relationships and we need totake time to invest hard on
those, really make it to wherewe elevate those things, because
chasing whatever momentaryrewards that might be weighed in
(31:43):
front of us will leave us empty.
That might be weighed in frontof us will leave us empty and we
will always regret not beingpresent, not making the time to
spend time with those who loveus and to make those memories.
And it makes it a lot easierfor me to figure out what it is.
(32:07):
I want to be moved by what itis that motivates me and it's
really hard because I'm not aseasily tricked.
Someone can lay out a dollarfigure and they're puzzled
because they're not sayinganything that speaks my language
.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Ooh, I got to say preach, brother, preach.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
No, I mean, that is so profound.
And you know, when you said,you know having to fit into, I'm
just going to say, a box or aframe to make others comfortable
, I know that I've done that.
I know that I do that in someof my relationships.
(32:51):
Still, you know, my husband nowwe've been married and divorced
to one another approximatelyfour times to one another, but's
it's, um, you know it has beenme fitting myself into a box to
(33:16):
make other people comfortable,um, and I know that I've done
that in in my relationship.
And you know, now we're at apoint where we're we say we're
so old now that it, you know,we're just going to be who we're
going to be and just be thebest versions of ourselves, not
necessarily for one another, butfor those adult kids that we
(33:38):
have and the grandchildren.
And we've come to this placewhere we can be who we're going
to be, completely opposite,completely different people.
But we're not trying to forcethat.
And I can look back and I waslike, well, that's why I didn't
work this time, or that's why Ididn't work that time.
(33:58):
It's me feeling like I'mshrinking myself to fit into
this spot, that I don't belong,and it creates this frustration
and him feeling like he'sshrinking himself to be in this
spot that he didn't ask to be inand it creates this frustration
.
And so, you know, we never gotit right up until now and just
(34:21):
completely okay with being whowe are.
I feel so privileged, blessed,to be in a position where, at
Texas Swept by 4, I don't haveto shrink to do that and I can
truly be my authentic self, nomatter what that looks like, you
know, or how that comes acrossin Texas or Oklahoma.
(34:44):
It's just who I am and I'mcomfortable with that.
That's one thing I can say.
The only thing that my motherand my grandmother ever said is
that everybody's not going toview you the same and just to be
aware of that.
You know come from a mixed,multi-ethnic household and they
were like people are not goingto know how to take you, and
(35:07):
just be aware of that.
But they never tried to changeum, who I was or you know, just
as this kind of wild kid thatyou know would just be running
barefoot down the street orwhatever I want.
They never changed, they neverwanted to change that.
They didn't want me to be awareof the perception of others and
(35:29):
how that could impact me.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
They gave you quite a gift.
That's a big gift.
You asked a minute ago abouthow we had navigated the either
or or the, and I don't thinkI've only had language for that
in the last few years, but I canlook back and see that much of
(35:54):
my adult life was an and insteadof either or.
I was a hairdresser, makeupartist for 40 years and I always
had projects on the side.
I studied photography and shotprofessionally.
(36:17):
At one point, I plannedweddings professionally.
I got specialized training inhypnosis and did hypnosis for a
period of time, and I've studiedand done coaching on and off
for the last almost 20 years.
It's never really been aneither, or it's been an and for
(36:43):
me, and I don't know exactly howI did that.
To be real honest, it wasn't aconscious, intentional decision,
it was just kind of the way itunfolded.
And now I can look back and see, with those clear eyes and a
(37:07):
language to be able to describeit, that I was choosing the, and
I can clearly see it.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
You know, I see that from my very first conversation
that is, the thing thatresonated with me is that you
all were doing your and and Ileft that initial meeting.
It's the first time meeting youall and I thought I want to
make sure that I can.
I didn't have the language forit until you're saying the and
(37:37):
now I want to make, I want to beable to do that.
I want to just, you know, beable to do that, and I know that
I'm doing that to some degree,but I want to do that fully.
And, Dwight, it's somethingthat you were that you mentioned
about the relationships.
And after that, after thatevening, like I have friends
that I know that they're alwaysgoing to be my friends, no
(38:00):
matter what I mean through thickand thin, and we may go years
without speaking and I will say,oh, I'm so busy, I'm so busy.
But I left that night and Ireached out to two of my closest
friends that have been with methrough you name it and I'm just
like, hey, I'm just reachingout to see how you're doing,
(38:21):
Because I wanted to rekindlethose relationships and I
started thinking about all ofthe beautiful relationships that
I could have had along theyears, but I put them aside for,
whether it was, you know, thatrelationship didn't fit this
time period or what have you.
(38:42):
And I didn't have the languagefor it, I didn't know what I was
doing, but I just knew that,hey, I want to interact with
different folks.
I want to.
You know, if a relationship, ifsomething is presented to me
where I can be my authentic selfand that individual or those
individuals are their authenticself, then I want that, I want
(39:06):
to have those conversations, Iwant to do dinners, and I have
not done that before.
And I called my friend and shewas like are you okay?
I'm like, yeah, I'm fine.
She was like, because this isnot what you normally do.
I may hear from you during theholidays, but she's like this is
just out of the blue.
And I said I want to.
We've been friends but I wantto deepen that connection.
(39:30):
You know, I want to be present.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
And now I feel like I'm in my and era where I'm like
yes, I'm going to do this, andI'm going to do this and I'm
going to go to lunch with thisperson and we're going to have
breakfast, and we're just, youknow, and I feel like I'm in my
and era.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
It's a different animal, isn't?
Speaker 2 (39:57):
it?
Mm-hmm, I want to.
May I have permission to letyou in on a little secret?
Yes, you said a minute ago thatyou wanted to make room for
those places where you couldfully be authentic, and the
secret is you don't look forthem, you don't find them.
(40:18):
The secret is that you createthem.
And the way you do that is youjust show up everywhere you go
authentic.
And I mean this really hasbecome my superpower, because I
realized that when I show upeverywhere, I go fully authentic
.
It is a polarizer and it is ina polarizer in the most
(40:40):
beautiful way.
You know, you think about apolarizer as being good or bad
or in or out Polarizer.
Is that extreme?
And yes it is.
But there's something magicalabout authenticity.
Polarizers of all differentother kinds may not be this way,
but with authenticity, when youshow up truly authentic, it
(41:05):
will draw a very specific typeof person to you and they will
be authentic and they will beyour people and they will be
your people.
And then it's going to be onthe other end of that continuum,
that polarization is going tobe the people that your
(41:27):
authenticity makes them veryuncomfortable because they're
not authentic, and it will sendthem away.
It will literally push themaway, which is a beautiful thing
because they're not your people.
If they were, they wouldn't begoing away.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
That's that.
That's very profound.
And I think for me, you know,I've always had like, when
people would go away, I was like, well, what did I do?
You know, maybe I was too muchof this or I was too over the
top here, or what did you know,what did I do?
(42:09):
And I always, you know, wouldsay well, I know that I think I
have a problem with loss, butit's what you said.
And I have started to walk inthis, like if they're not with
me, if they don't embrace who Iam, then they're not for me.
(42:29):
That's like you said they'renot my people.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
They're not my people and I don't even give it a
second thought.
I let them go.
But what I have done is I'vegotten to where, when somebody
walks away, I'm like Because inthat moment they made more space
(42:54):
for the person that is mypeople, that wants to come and
sit right next to me.
You know, we only have so muchtime and space in our lives and
if we're spending it with peoplethat aren't really our people
and we're shoving ourselves likea square peg into a round hole
(43:14):
to try to make it all work,there's no room for our true
people to be there, becausewe're with misfit people.
That's true.
It's like once you see it, youcan't unsee it.
You know, once you see thebeauty of how it really works,
you know, when somebody doesn'tcall back or they don't respond,
I go not my people next, thankyou, because in that moment now
I'm going to, I make it a pointto focus on the people who are
(43:35):
my people, who do want to comeand sit right next to me.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
And.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
I don't give any energy or oxygen to those that
drift away or don't show up, ornothing wrong with them, they're
just not my people.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
And I like that.
You know, I like that because Ithink it's taken me a while to
get to that, because, like Isaid, I'm just like well, did I
say something?
Did I do something?
You know, was I dressed acertain way?
But no, and it's.
I'm just like they were in myspheres for a season.
(44:16):
I'm sure that they've taught mesome type of lesson along the
way, but they're not my people,they're not who.
You know.
If I needed to pick up thephone and just say, hey, can we
just have a chat or can we justgo to lunch?
And there's no agenda, there'sno you know purpose, it's just I
(44:39):
want to share time with you, Iwant to be with you, you know,
and it's taken me a while toembrace that, to say it's okay
for me to want just no agenda,no topic, just hey, I just want
to spend time with you, that'sit.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
You know, I haven't gotten to the end of my life yet
, so I don't know exactly whatit's going to be like, but I've
thought about it a lot, and whenI'm on that deathbed, where I'm
minutes away from my finalbreath, I don't think I'm going
to be thinking about myachievements.
I'm going to be thinking aboutmy achievements.
(45:23):
I think that I'm going to be100% focused on the people who
love me and who I have loved.
The older I get, the more and Isay this all the time people
are our greatest resource.
Aside from food, water andoxygen, people are our greatest
resource, but we do not treatthem like they're our greatest
(45:44):
resource, If anything, you mayhave the energy to contain one
question, and that is did itmatter?
Speaker 3 (46:01):
Did you live your best life?
Did you laugh?
Did you love?
Speaker 1 (46:12):
Did you contribute, and that's.
You know, I think about that asI watched.
You know, friends go through avariety of things lost friends
to, you know, to AIDS and in thepandemic and just a host of
things.
And using that wordpolarization I thought, when it
(46:37):
is my time to transition towherever that may be, you know,
I want to look back and think.
You know, I love that person.
That person loved me.
We had a blast, maybe we didn'tdisagree or maybe we didn't
agree on this, but we loved oneanother and we were our you know
our true selves, in whateverway that looked like.
(47:01):
And you know, I know that thesepeople have impacted me and I've
impacted them, and that's whatI think about and have started
to think about that more so.
As you know, the schedule isalways going to be there, the
work is always going to be there.
As you know, the schedule isalways going to be there, the
work is always going to be there.
But am I really carving outthose moments to be with people
(47:24):
that I enjoy, to be with peoplethat they just, you know, are a
breath of fresh air to be around?
And I've started thinking aboutthat more because I'm, like you
know, a large part of my lifewas caregiving, and then it
transitioned into something elseand doing things that I just
wanted to do, and then I waslike I think I got a little bit
comfortable in just doingwhatever I wanted to do, but
(47:50):
still being very busy and notcarving out time to really be
with people, and knowing that Ilove being with people.
I mean I'm always like who can Icall to go on a road trip?
You know what can we do?
Or who can you know, who can wego and see while we're on this
(48:14):
road trip?
And I'm starting to think aboutthat more especially as I get
older is that I want to bearound people.
I want to be in community withothers.
I want to break bread.
I want to have people come andsit at my table and just share
in these moments that are notquantifiable by you know how
much money you're going to makeor what car you drive.
It's just us and we're talkingand we're laughing or we're
(48:40):
crying or whatever that may be.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
As I have stepped more into my authenticity and my
vulnerability.
Those people have shown up inmasses Like there's more amazing
people around me than I couldever spend quality time with.
That's the hard part, and Iwant to spend time with all.
We meet so many amazing peopleI mean just amazing people that
(49:08):
I yes, I want to go and sitright next to them, and we
managed to do some of it, butthere's just not an.
I wish I could clone myself.
I know so many amazing peopleand speaking of, it is time for
(49:29):
us to draw this session to aclose.
It is so.
We have one.
You probably heard it twoepisodes ago we save one big,
the big question to the end.
And today's big question foryou is in your current creative
life, what is the biggest painpoint?
(49:51):
And by that I mean thatchallenge, if it were solved,
would be a game changer in yourcreative journey.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Time.
That would be a game changerfor me, because that is one of
the things that I think, oh, youknow, in my creative life, in
my creative journey, and I wasjust saying this this morning I
was talking to a friend and I'mlike you know what?
I am blocking all Fridays andthat is going to be my writing
day.
I'm like I'm going to carve outsome time.
(50:25):
I'm not going to make an excuseand that will be the day that,
you know, I dig into my clay.
I got into pottery last year andI did not realize it was a
messy endeavor and everybodymade a joke and they were like,
oh, my goodness, how are yougoing to work through this,
because you like everything soneat and orderly, digging my
(50:47):
hand in that clay and it's messyand I lose track of all time
and person and place.
And it's me in the clay and I'mthinking, and so I've told
(51:10):
myself I'm going to block offsome time.
I don't have to work a 16-hourday.
I do many times, but I don'thave to do that.
Do many times, but I don't haveto do that.
I'm going to give myself timeand that's going to be a gift to
me is giving myself time.
Speaker 2 (51:25):
It is a gift that gives back more than most people
realize.
I've started painting I'dstarted before, a few years ago
and then I've gone for manyyears without painting and I
started painting again in thelast couple of three months and
it's just as exactly as you say.
You know, it's just me and thepaint and everything else.
The rest of the world just goesaway.
(51:46):
And it's such, this amazinggift.
It nurtures my soul in a waythat I haven't experienced
before.
It didn't nurture my soul likethis the first time I tried
painting.
I haven't experienced before.
It didn't nurture my soul likethis the first time I tried
painting.
But now making that time, youknow, once again, we've got our
podcast and this business, thisstartup that we're working to
really get up and running, andI'm making time to paint because
(52:10):
my soul is screaming.
Please, please, please, please.
Speaker 1 (52:16):
I want to create and I found that being creative or
being really doing those thingswhere you know I am digging into
whatever art form it is thatI'm a much better person for
everyone else that I interactwith.
I agree completely.
I am a much better person andit's because I have that
creative outlet outlet, whetherit's collage or whether it's
(52:38):
picking up the camera or clay.
Speaker 2 (52:41):
when I come out of them they're like oh, you're a
different person it's like theweight of the world has just
it's gone away well, and Alicia,you're not the first person to
say time.
I think that that's maybe we'regoing to find this partially
universal.
This has been wonderful.
We do have to wrap becausewe've got another appointment in
(53:03):
less than two minutes, but thishas been such an enjoyable
conversation.
I have so enjoyed getting toknow you better and you know
when you're thinking about allthose people you want to hang
out with.
We hope you reach out to us.
I will.
We would love to hang out withyou.
I will.
We're here in the same city.
(53:24):
We need to make that happen.
Speaker 1 (53:27):
Yes, yes, we will.
I will do that and thank youfor inviting me.
I have been looking forward toit.
I put it on all my I'm oldschool, I still write things on
the calendar, but I put it onall my calendars.
I was like, oh, that's going tobe again that gift of time to
myself where I can just be withthe two of you, and I was like
I've been looking forward to it.
Speaker 2 (53:49):
Well, this is the tip of the iceberg.
We'll have more conversations.
Speaker 1 (53:53):
We will Thank you all .
Speaker 2 (53:55):
Thank you.
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