September 22, 2025 • 52 mins
Creativity rarely follows a straight line, and David Powell’s story proves it. From self-taught web designer to craft cocktail bartender to digital project manager overseeing 20+ bars, his journey is a testament to following curiosity even when it leads to surprising places.
David opens up about the fear of sharing work publicly, recalling how his first poetry reading left him physically ill with anxiety. “The hard part for me is never the creating, it’s having the guts to put it in front of people,” he admits—a feeling many creatives know well.
We explore originality versus imitation, why creative communities matter, and how criticism often masks envy of someone brave enough to share. Looking ahead, David is excited to return to writing—not as a career move, but because “you are happier when you do this, so you need to do it again.”
His story is a reminder that creativity isn’t just a skill, but a source of wellbeing and fulfillment.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
I'm really excited to start doing that again.
You know that's that I think.
As silly as it sounds like, I'mreally excited to like launch a
blog and I'm going to be doingit over the next couple of weeks
.
I'm working on some posts rightnow, but that's not something
where I'm saying to myself ohyeah, this is going to be your
(00:32):
new career.
It's something where I'm sayingto myself you are happier when
you do this, so you need to doit again hello and welcome to
(00:53):
another edition of for the loveof creatives.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I am your connections and community guy host, dwight,
and I'm joined by the OtherConnections and Community Guy
host, maddox, and today we arejoined by our featured guest,
david Powell.
Hello, david, hi everyone,great to be here.
We're so excited that you canjoin us on the podcast and I
(01:17):
know that there are some peoplewho might be quite familiar with
all your work and what you do,but for a lot of people this may
be the first time that they'rehearing about you, so could you
share just a little bit aboutwho you are and what you're
about?
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yeah, so I am a creative digital project manager
for a hospitality company in myfull-time role.
If you ever thought that youcouldn't have a really cool job
that was completely around barsand brewpubs, you were wrong.
I'm living proof of that.
And on the side I do a lot offreelance web design, product
design and a little bit ofdigital marketing, so I've
(01:54):
gotten to have my hand in a lotof really unique spaces,
everything from classicalviolins to the diviest bars that
you can name in Los Angeles.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah, so that's what I do for working creatively
right now.
How exciting, Tell me.
It sounds like you have thepotential to experience quite a
bit of adventure with your work.
Do you have any fun storiesabout things that you've gotten
into because of the work you do?
Speaker 1 (02:26):
any fun stories about things that you've gotten into
because of the work you do.
You know, I think that part ofthe fun of working in the
digital space for places like aphysical location, like a bar or
a group hub, is that theresearch is on the ground right.
One of the fun things that wedid last year one of the bars
that I work with in downtown LAwanted to feature a guide on
(02:46):
their website and also in likefull printouts of downtown LA
and their favorite spots in it.
So to do the research for that,I actually got to go with some
of the other members of thisproject team and we just went
and had burgers and pizzas andbeers across downtown LA and,
you know, would be sitting andhaving a slice of pizza
(03:07):
somewhere and then remember, ohyeah, there's this great coffee
spot around the corner.
It might be the best coffee indowntown LA.
So you know, we got to go andlike experience.
All those places talk to theowners and then you know, I get
to come back to my home officeand do like a weird 3D design
gopher head, because the bar iscalled the golden gopher.
So you know, just um, thatintersection of adventures in
(03:33):
person with people is reallywhat translates to better design
and more fun design um in thedigital space oh, I, you know
it's.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
It's great that you should say that, because I'm
reminded of some interestingresearch that I just learned
about, where a lot of designexperts them and worked with
mechanical parts came up withmore compelling and more
creative designs.
They were independently judgedto be the better designs than
(04:17):
those that just approached itwith, you know, using what they
knew about color form theoryangles.
With using what they knew aboutcolor form theory angles,
there's something about justactually being in it and
engaging all of your senses sothat you can really inject a
part of yourself, a part of yourperson, your essence, and I
(04:40):
think we all appreciate thatorganic, living aspect of what
we see.
So tell me how it is that youfound yourself in this really
cool space where you get to dothese cool things, because it's
not one of those tracks thatpeople look at in school and say
(05:02):
, oh well, I want to go and dopromotional work for bars and
hospitality.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Yeah, and I think that I'm in a pretty unique
position.
I work with a company that isover 20 locations strong in
three different states and weare exclusively a bar company.
We don't have restaurants, wedon't have coffee shops, it's
just bars.
And trying to find people inthat same vertical to even ask
questions is nearly impossible.
(05:33):
Not hard if you're looking forrestaurants or hotel groups, but
I'm not familiar with otherplaces that are just bars,
unless you count, like chilies,you know, and we're, we're all
unique concepts.
You know?
Um, I tell myself in thisposition because I was a
freelance life designer.
I went to austin and I completeda ui design boot camp to kind
(05:57):
of augment my self-taught skillsand while I was in austin for
that, I fell in love with thecity.
I, I moved there and while Iwas trying to freelance my way
into a more sustainable careeras a web designer, I started
going to happy hours and sawpeople making cocktails and I
was like this is the coolestthing ever and you get to do it
(06:18):
and talk to people, and at thatpoint I just didn't want to be
behind my computer not hangingout with people.
I was in my early 20s, so I hada moment where I was sitting at
a bar and thinking, man, it'dbe so cool if I could just like,
do this, and at the same timethe other thought that came to
my head was like, well, you'relike 22, 23.
(06:39):
You can.
So I was there a few years thatI'm just going to be a cocktail
bartender and open my own barsand it was so creatively
fulfilling and I'm sure I cantalk a little bit about that,
because if you want a creativecommunity like craft cocktail
bartenders had that on lock, atleast at the time I was doing it
a few years ago.
(06:59):
But eventually that nightlifeis no longer as attractive as it
was in your 20s or when youwere single.
I'm married now and I startedto want to not be in that for
the long term, but I stillreally love hospitality.
So the company that I wasworking for as a bartender this
(07:21):
over 20 bar group strong companyneeded somebody to just come in
and do like systems admin workand I took the experience I had
as a web designer and I saidlike, hey, I can come in and do
this.
I get technology, I get whatyou do, I understand the culture
of the company and I have beenin that role for gosh two and a
(07:41):
half years now and it's grownfrom hey, we need somebody to
create emails for us to you know.
Hey, can you help us developlike internal tools, using like
this mixture of AI, people youknow and just sheer force and
sweat, which has been a reallycool job.
(08:02):
It's hard to define.
That's why we just say digitalproject manager, but it's a lot
of different things and I haveto be really creative in the
role.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Oh, and that is awesome.
And, as you described howyou're kind of in a unique space
, you're on your own.
That forces you to be creativein the classical sense, because
you don't necessarily have arecipe that you can follow no,
and thank god for the few peoplewho will pick up the phone when
(08:30):
I do call.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Uh, you know they're not in exactly the same space,
but it's wonderful when I canhave that like that peer review.
But yeah, it's a lot of justtesting things and saying what
works.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
I think it's cool that you, as a creative, are not
just doing your creative work,but the people that you serve so
much of, the people that youcome in contact with, are
creatives.
That's got to make the wholeprocess just more interesting
and more enjoyable.
I would think I know it wouldbe for me to be serving well, I
(09:08):
mean, we, we do.
Everything we do has to do withcreatives, and it's such a
different animal than justdealing with everyday people
that don't maybe considerthemselves creative or, um, yeah
, I think that's really cool.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
It's definitely a great community to be part of.
And you're right, I mean thepeople who find themselves in
any kind of service industry areoften super creative people.
You know they're people whomaybe it's not what they want to
do full-time or, if it is, theyjust turn all their creativity
into that role.
But you know, I work withpeople who have gone from
bartenders to general managersfor the company to now people
(09:52):
who work in HR and they havegraphic design degrees and on
the side they have, like haircare products, e-commerce stores
.
You know.
You know our VP of Ops uses AIto try to build apps all the
time for fun.
You know our our vp of off usesai to try to build apps all the
time for fun.
You know, they're just peoplewho like to put something out
(10:12):
into the world and what a greatplace I'd like to dip back, oh
no, you're good.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
There's a little bit of a delay.
Go ahead, maddox.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Oh, I was just going to say I would like to go back,
maybe to an earlier time.
How did you come to realizethat you were creative, and how
old were you, and what did thatlook like when it first
manifested and you saw, youliked to make things?
Tell us that origin story,please.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Yeah, so for I mean, from as long as I can remember,
I really loved to draw.
I was really attracted to comicbooks and I loved cartoons when
I was a kid.
So I started out just drawingdragons and Batman or whatever.
And as I got older I took someart lessons.
(11:07):
I started getting reallyobsessed with sketching out
plans for this camp that Ithought I would make, or forts
in the backyard.
And as I got older and coulduse tools, sometimes I would
build the forts.
I remember making stilts in myparents' basement, like I just
wanted to make stuff and it wasreally fulfilling for me and I
(11:32):
think that I knew I was creativethen.
And as I got older, I kind ofturned my mind towards oh well,
like how can I make that makemoney?
Or I don't actually need to bethat creative, I just need to,
like do something that makesmoney.
And it's only been morerecently that I've admitted like
I'm never going to be fulfilledif I don't lean into this
(11:54):
creativity.
You know it's.
It's the reason that when Iwork on a project and I don't
think it's good, like I'm upsetfor days, like even, even if it
doesn't matter, even if it getsthe job done.
If it's not something that Iwant to show to somebody else,
it bothers me.
And you got to do what you do inwork and sometimes there are
(12:19):
deadlines and sometimes thereare budgets and constraints and
sometimes you just get calledaway to other things.
But I like making stuff that'sgood.
Uh, I, I saw that when I wasworking in the cocktail scene.
I saw that when I was incollege and I was a barista,
like I loved learning how to dolatte art, like anything that I
could create that was beautifulto me but also made somebody
(12:42):
else happy, like gave me thatpoint of connection with
somebody else, was the bestthing ever.
Unfortunately, I, you know,couldn't remain a barista
forever, but I, I get itcompletely.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
I I've started painting.
I've painted on and off, butI'm painting again and I don't
care whether my painting is everhanging in a gallery.
I don't care if I ever sell apainting, but the one thing that
I really want is I want tocreate good art.
So I get exactly what you'resaying.
(13:18):
If nobody ever sees it but meor maybe a few people that come
into my home, I just want tocreate something that makes me
feel good about it.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yeah, I mean it sounds narcissistic, but I go
back and read my own poems.
I don't share them with peopleusually, but it's not even that
I'm like, oh, that's so good.
Than with people usually, butlike it's not even that, I'm
like, oh, that was so good.
It's more.
(13:52):
I go back to need and I'mreminded of like hey, I did that
, like I felt some way and I putit on paper.
Whether it's good or not, likeit's there.
You know, I, I gave birth tothat and that's just so
fulfilling for me.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Um, may I?
I challenge you to uh toexcavate some of that stuff,
because I'm learning more andmore that art doesn't become art
until it's shared.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
That's so interesting , because that's the scary part.
You asked about going backwardsto when I knew I was creative.
I knew I was creative for along time, but I got more and
more scared to show it.
I actually remember when I wasliving in Austin.
I was writing a lot of poetryat the time and I finally got
the guts to go to an open micnight they had at this place
(14:38):
called Spider House Ballroom andI got up on the stage and I
read my poem and I got back offthe stage and they score it
there because it's technically acompetition.
And I got up on the stage and Iread my poem and I got back off
the stage and they score itthere because it's technically a
competition, and I don't evenknow what I scored.
I stepped off the stage.
After that I shook hands withsome of the other people who had
been in line and somebody elsegets up to read their poem and I
(14:58):
was like I think I need to gooutside and just smoke a
cigarette, because back then Ithought that was cool too.
And I go outside and I light acigarette and I walk into the
alley beside the ballroom and Ijust vomited everywhere in the
alley and I stood back up and Iwas like, oh so, like I'm really
scared to share this creativepart of myself.
I was like this is likeprobably a wake-up call for me
(15:22):
and I decided to walk back intothe ballroom and then I threw up
again.
I was like, okay, this night'sover for me.
But that was an experiencewhere I realized, oh, the hard
part for me is never going to bethe creating, it's going to be
having the guts to put it infront of people.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
This is a powerful callback to episode 33, patrick
williams, where he talked aboutcreative collapse.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
You're describing an experience that was your own
creative collapse when it cameto sharing your art yeah, I mean
I remembering that moment, Istill feel just like the same
way your stomach, just like yourheart dropping into your
stomach or your just thatemptying out.
(16:08):
I guess it's fitting that Isaid it's like birthing
something to write poetry, butyeah, that just burned into my
mind.
I ended up writing a storyabout it later.
So it wasn't like at all awasted experience.
I learned from it.
But it gave me this new respectfor all the friends that I'd
ever seen get up on stage inbands in high school or college
(16:33):
or you know friends.
I had a lot of friends who werein theater and I never
respected enough the guts thatit took for them to be up there.
I had not felt that much fearand I didn't realize it was fear
until after I got off the stage, like in the moment the
adrenaline went and I did thething.
(16:54):
But afterwards I was like thatwas the most terrifying thing
that I've ever done.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
You know, I suspect that if you stepped into your
courage and put some of yourcreativity out there whether
it's poetry or whatever it is,drawings, doesn't matter I think
that you would.
I really believe that you wouldfind that you would be the
(17:21):
worst critic.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Does that make sense.
Yeah, that's another thing too.
Anytime that I have stayed withpeople and given them a chance
to give feedback, they've neverbeen rude or hateful.
Sometimes the feedback isconstructive, but it's never
been that thing you're so afraidof Like, oh, you know you're
(17:46):
actually a bad person becauseyou wrote this poem, or you know
you're in last stand becausethis picture that you drew is
not up to my standards.
You know, that's just not.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Well, and we do get rude comments from time to time.
You know, every once in a whilewe'll get a rude comment on
something we put out there time.
You know, every once in a whilewe'll get a rude comment on
something we put out there,either a video that we have
created, or, you know, somebodywill say something that's just
downright mean.
And I've just kind of learned Imean hurt people, hurt people.
(18:16):
When that comes across, or whenI see it even happening to
somebody else somebody's bashingsomebody's something online I
just think, oh, that poor soul,they must be hurting because it
really isn't about the thingthat they're being so rude and
(18:36):
mean about.
I've actually trained myselfwhen I get something negative
like that, I just laugh, I makeit a point to burst into
laughter and then just move on.
I don't delete it, I don'trespond, I just laugh
hysterically and move on.
It's kind of a I don't knowcoping mechanism maybe, but it's
(19:00):
a conscious decision that Imake.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah, I mean the idea of I mean maybe maybe you guys
have done it, I'm not actuallysure if I ever have but the idea
of attacking a stranger on theinternet there's something that
they put out or attackingsomeone in person.
(19:24):
Even worse, like I don't eventhink I've ever booed anyone at
a show, at at a sports gameMaybe it's part of the culture,
but you know, to get yourself tothat point would mean that
you're pretty unhappy.
And I found that when I'm morecritical of people's creativity,
(19:46):
it's not because it's so bad,it's because I'm envious.
That you know.
Oh, I think I could probably dobetter, but they actually had
the guts to put it out there, todo it.
You know, it's an envy thingfor me.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
I think that is a profound awareness, david, and
probably something that ourlisteners at least a percentage
of them need to hear.
You know, I find myselfsometimes looking at art and
going, ooh, that doesn't workfor me at all.
You know, I don't say that'snot art, I don't do that.
I don't say that's bad, I justsay wow.
(20:25):
That does not speak to me.
But in the same breath,oftentimes I would say, and I
don't think for a minute that Icould do better.
It's not about that, it's just Imean things call to us or they
don't.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Right, it's subjective.
Yes.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
And it's okay to say something, doesn't call to you.
But when you bash it, somehowI've gotten somebody in my
Facebook feed.
He's an artist and a seasonedartist, and all of his videos
are about tearing people downand saying that's bullshit,
that's just shit, that's not art.
(21:07):
And I've tried to.
I'm not following him, so Ican't unfollow him.
I've tried to.
I'm not following him, so Ican't unfollow him.
I've tried everything I can toget him out of my feed and
nothing has worked.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
I don't know why he's in my feed, but yeah, every
video is where he is justripping somebody to shreds about
their art and I'm like thinkingwhat's going on with him like,
uh like kind of how gordonramsey made his name, uh, in the
(21:41):
kitchen, you know, um it andit's so funny because so many
people could get better if theywere allowed to be bad first, or
if they allowed themselves tobe bad first, you know.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Being bad first is an integral part of you.
We don't get to good withoutbeing bad first.
I'm creating some ugly shit andI you know, and it's just part
of the deal.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Right, I mean, it's the part of the deal, joker.
You know they just like aredoing what they see on tick tock
that's trending.
So you know they're not reallybeing original, they're not
really doing comedy and like tosome of their credit in the
interviews.
Um, I saw one comedian sayyou're gonna copy everybody else
for probably the first twoyears that you do it before you
find out what you have to say.
Yeah, that's part of learningthe craft.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
When I was writing.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Not only that, go ahead.
I was just going to say when Iwas writing, you know, blog
posts or poetry, I was just kindof parroting whoever I happened
to be reading at the time myshort stories from when I was in
my early 20s.
Like they're just me trying tobe Hunter S Thompson, like my
poetry from the same period,that was just me trying to be
(23:15):
Bukowski, and like you know, yougrow up and you realize that
you have your own things to sayand you know, maybe you don't
idolize the same people that youdid when you were younger and
dumber, but it's part of theprocess of finding who you are
and what you want to say.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
Well and, truthfully, there's not a lot out there
that's original anymore.
Yeah, you know, I will say I'mvery intuitive and I get these
like intuitive hits about ideasabout our business or about all
kinds of things, and I will comeup with something that just
(23:54):
literally comes into the top ofmy head in the form of an idea.
I'm very connected to thatunseen realm and I will go oh my
God, I just had the mostamazing idea.
And then either Dwight will say, well, that already exists, or
I'll go out and I'll Google andI'll find I've never seen it
before, I've never heard itbefore.
This was, for me, an originalidea and there it is already
(24:18):
completely out there andadvanced.
There's not a lot that'soriginal anymore.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
I'm not sure if it's been referenced on this.
No, I'm pretty sure it's beenreferenced on this podcast
before.
But in the creative act by RickRubin he mentions that if you
have an idea and you don't acton it, don't be surprised to see
someone else act on it at thesame time.
He basically is kind of talkingabout what you were talking
about, maddox.
There's the source of thiscreativity and this idea is
(24:54):
trying to choose a vessel, moreor less, and if you refuse to do
that vessel, it's going to findone.
So you know who's to say itcan't find a few right?
I interned at the NashvilleEntrepreneur Center back when.
Startups were crazy big inNashville and one of the things
(25:14):
that they would say when someonebrought in an idea to them was
who's already doing this?
And the person responded noone's doing this.
They would say well, if itcould make money, somebody
probably would.
So you're going to have toreally prove to us that this
completely original idea isworth investing in.
It's not a bad thing to beunoriginal.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
You can get original along the way.
We had an experience here justrecently where we were at a
weekend conference in our show.
It was called Art Boost and wewere asked to facilitate a time
on Saturday morning.
That was kind of like anetworking thing, because that's
what we do we connect peopleand bring people together and we
(26:05):
call it people magic and we'vecoined that phrase.
We are all about creatingpeople magic.
So we went in and we had about25 minutes, was all, and we
created people magic.
It was the loudest, most noisypart of the entire two-day
conference.
It was the most energetic and alot of people told us that
(26:26):
afterwards.
And two weeks later there wassomebody that actually told us
that they were hosting something, they had loved what they saw
and they had taken our idea andmassaged a little bit to fit
their use and we were actuallygoing to something where they
were doing this and it was justlike it might have well been us.
(26:49):
It was crazy and I had thismixed bag of feelings.
There was this part of me thatwas going wow, that's really
flattering, you know.
It's like she thought what wewere doing was so fabulous that
she ripped off and duplicatedR&D, as they say.
And then there was this part ofme that kind of felt like, wow,
(27:10):
that's kind of nervy, kind ofballsy to do it right in front
of our faces.
You know and I don't have anyshe's a lovely person.
I'm not bashing her in any way.
She did a decent job ofdemonstrating that.
But it was kind of thisdouble-edged sword.
I was kind of like, you know,but when you think about it,
(27:35):
most of the things that we do,we've picked up little hints of
it here and hints of it thereand we learned something in this
training.
And then we saw something wherewe were being trained or I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
You know, everything's borrowed
everything's borrowed, yeah, andI'm going to be careful how I
say this because I don't wantyou guys to get hate and I don't
want hate personally and I meanit's very murky ethically with
(28:07):
generative AI right now, becauseit's pulling from copyrighted
individual contributor kind ofmaterial in a little more of a
direct way.
The thing that I am thinkingabout with that, though, is how
do we develop our own personalstyles in whatever we do without
(28:31):
going and kind of trainingourselves on what other people
have already done A little bitdifferent in the sense of
generative AI?
But it made me when I saw a lotof people talking about how
it's copyright infringement orit's, you know, a danger to
creators.
I understand that and I agreewith that, but it made me think
(28:57):
well, how can I say thatanything I do is original if I
also kind of feel like I'm goingand training myself on, just
like looking at things otherpeople have already created?
And I think probably it comesdown to the intention and the
effort and the fact that Ipersonally have to put my own
life experiences into it, my ownpain, and it's not just an
algorithm on an algorithm, butyou know, it makes you question
(29:21):
like how original can I be andwhat?
What makes it different andunique to me?
You know, and I think that thatjust comes down to what are my
life experiences that I'm addingto this.
Maddox, when you were talkingabout how that woman was kind of
doing the same thing, with alittle bit of a massaging on it,
(29:45):
I thought about that OscarWilde quote.
Often just the first half ofthe quote Imitation is the
sincerest form of flattery.
Well, the other half of thatquote is that mediocrity can pay
to greatness.
And not to say that what shewas doing was mediocre.
But when you just go andcompletely imitate someone else,
it's going to be mediocrecompared to the lightning in a
(30:07):
bottle that they had when theyoriginally had the idea, until
you really massage it and addyour own personality and
creativity to it.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
You are spot on when I think about how we have
developed what we have developed.
It has come at one littlesnippet at a time from so many
places, and what we've pulledtogether is, yes, something that
we learned over here andsomething that we saw over here,
but we've put our own spin onit and we've taken this
(30:41):
collection of things.
I mean, I've not seen anythingand we go to a lot of shit.
We go to a lot of shit that hasto do with artists and
creatives and we don't ever seeanything remotely like what we
do.
We don't ever.
But we saw little snippets ofall that from a gazillion things
(31:05):
that we've done.
We're always tweaking andaltering just a little bit, so
it's like we took Just a littlebit.
(31:35):
So it's like we took.
You know, we found $101 billsas we scoured aroundight.
Have we ever literally imitatedsomething that?
Speaker 2 (31:39):
we saw somewhere else .
No, because we can appreciatethat there's, and in most cases
it would not be appropriate, itwould be tone deaf to what it is
that we were trying to bring itto, if we just tried to
replicate something that we saw.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
I mean, we've been at Creative Mornings for a year
now, a little over, and we loveCreative Mornings and we've been
very, very specific in saying,not just to ourselves but to
others you know, we serve thesame community that they do, but
we don't serve it in the waythey do and we don't intend to
(32:16):
serve it in the way they do.
They have that covered.
We're going to serve thecommunity a completely different
way.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
It's funny too.
I mean talk about CreativeMornings, which is where I met
the two of you.
But I started going to creativemornings when I was sitting in
the car waiting for my wife toget out of her night school
classes at SMU for a graduateprogram that she's doing.
(32:48):
And I was just listening toDavid Bowie and, like you know,
the his catalog of music issuper varied and different.
But I was like, wow, this islike there's some real artistry
here that I've been missing inmy life, just like this is like
music for its own sake.
(33:08):
A lot of it's not reallycommercially very viable.
Anyway, it kind of put thatcreative bug in me again where I
was like I need to get aroundpeople who are doing creative
things again.
The reason I bring it up isbecause during the time that I
first started going to CreativeMornings, I was like, oh, I'll
listen to this podcast aboutDavid Bowie's life.
(33:28):
Maybe it'll inspire me in someway that I haven't been inspired
in a little bit, trying to bemore creative.
His entire first decade ofmaking music was a huge failure
because he was just trying torip off whatever was trendy and
he didn't actually see very muchsuccess until he got past that
period of just imitatingeverybody else, you know.
(33:51):
Then he got some commercialsuccess and my favorite records
by him are when he was makingexperimental music that he
didn't really seem to care thatmuch about the reception it was,
it was just because it was fun.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
But yeah, like I do think that the imitation is a
viable aspect of it.
You know, I find for myself asa baby artist you know somebody
that's still very much in thebeginning stages of learning
techniques the only way I canlearn that technique is watching
somebody else do that techniqueand then trying to do that
(34:27):
technique.
To me, it's not aboutreplicating a painting that
somebody else has done or asculpture, it's more about
practicing the technique thatthey were demonstrating.
And so there is a lot ofimitation right now and I think
that has its place, you know, inanything.
(34:49):
I think that you can see apublic speaker and say, wow,
they did such an amazing job ofreally like capturing the
audience, that charisma, and youwant to emulate that and
sometimes you do you have tolike?
copy it briefly until until youdon't you know?
Speaker 2 (35:12):
well, yeah, you gotta find your own spin on it.
Yes, it's.
It's gonna fall flat if allyou're doing is a direct
imitation.
But if you can lean into what'sgenuine, what is authentic to
you, what's your thumbprint,that is what's going to land
charismatically and elevate youresteem, the way that you're
(35:36):
viewed in a space, becausepeople see something that has a
soul and they are just drawn toit because it's real has a soul
and they are just drawn to itbecause it's real.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
I mean, it's like if you were trying to become a chef
and express yourself throughcooking.
You're not going to reinventthe method by which you saute
something or bake something, orjulienne carrots or whatever.
You've got to learn all thatfirst and and then you kind of
have the medium and the toolsand maybe then you decide that
you're going to create a newshape of pasta after you've
already learned.
(36:14):
You know why people sell theexisting shapes of pasta.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
You know it's like.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Yeah you have to master a technique first.
Right.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
And there's.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Oh, sorry, I was just going to say, Maddox, in a
conversation that we had once, Iremember I was talking about
podcasting and you recommended acourse and you said I'm not
trying to reinvent the wheelwhen it comes to just getting a
podcast going.
If somebody has a wheel, I willbuy it from them so that I can
go where I want to go.
It's not about reinventing thevehicle.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
Yeah, and you know God, the guy that taught that
course.
I'm in podcast number two nowand my podcasts are not even
remotely anything like hispodcasts are not even remotely
anything like his.
But the structure that hetaught me in how to put it
together that was.
You know, there are aspectsthat and even still, I made it
(37:17):
mine.
I started off with the originalstructure that he taught and as
I went into it I began to seeoh, I think this would work
better for me and I would adjustit as I saw fit.
But you know, he was sellinghis and I bought it, so I had a
right to use exactly what.
(37:40):
Yeah, you know I say that a lot.
You're very right.
A lot of people have heard mesay I'm at a time in my life
where I don't have the time orthe energy to reinvent the wheel
.
You know, I'm getting ready toturn 69 years old and so I want
the fast track.
(38:00):
If I can buy the wheel ratherthan reinvent the wheel, and I
can afford to buy that wheel, Iwill do that.
I will absolutely do that.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
And we see that with all kinds of all of the modern
conveniences of life.
You know that I love to bakebread, but we're going to buy it
in loaves because I'm not goingto spend all day with all of
the effort.
And then how far do you want totake that?
Do I want to mill my own wheat?
Right?
Speaker 3 (38:34):
When I first started painting, I just went out and
bought paints and canvases andbrushes and just started putting
paint on the canvas and Iwasn't terribly successful.
I produced a couple of piecesthat I was pleased with and I
wasn't terribly successful.
I produced a couple of piecesthat I was pleased with, but I
wasn't terribly successful.
And this time around I've kindof gotten really back into it
(38:54):
and this time I've realized youreally did some things that just
didn't work.
You know, a I started off withreally huge canvases.
I went out and bought reallybig canvases but yet I had zero
technique and I just startedputting paint on the canvas.
This time I've started off withsmaller canvases and paper.
(39:16):
This time I'm actually takingclasses.
Most of them are online, sothey're video education but once
again I'm paying for somebodyto teach me techniques that once
I have that technique down,then I can use that technique
any way I want and make it mine,and it's a game changer.
(39:36):
You know, I would imagine thatthere's probably a lot of
artists that don't ever have anykind of training whatsoever.
They really do just get in andstart playing with the stuff and
keep going until they do findtheir way and make something
(39:57):
their own.
But once again I tried that andthat didn't work for me.
You know, I thought I got tohave some technique here, you
know?
Whatever that is, it's just aninteresting thing.
There's so many different waysto skin a cat and when we had
(40:17):
this conversation just recentlyon another podcast.
We, as human beings, are trainedto think there's only one right
answer.
School teaches us that there'sone right answer and you're
either right or you're wrong.
And life is not like that.
There's often many solutions toany problem, and it's not
(40:37):
always an either, or Many timesit can be an and, but we don't
see it that way because that'snot the way we were raised and
entrenched.
Whatever the word you would,yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Yeah Well, I was just going to say I love, David, the
way that you were able toembrace the different seasons in
your life, so you had interestthat drove you to try to create
using the poetry and the blog,and when you were really
(41:18):
entrenched in the bar scene,when you worked as a barista and
you were able to gracefullymove from one chapter to the
next graceful would be a stretchif anybody, um, who uh knows me
for a long period of time,listens to this podcast.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Um, I'm self-aware, everybody graceful might be
going a little far, but well butyou know the, the thing that
sticks out, the spirit of improv.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
You know you took what you were given and you were
able to move forward, whereasfor some people, if the change
had been too severe, too soon,they would collapse.
They would have a real problempicking themselves up and moving
forward.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
Oh, go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
I was just going to say that that goes back to what
you guys are all about.
It wasn't just the creativitythat drove me.
I had some good people aroundme.
You know the community helpswith that tremendously.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
Yeah, we're very big believers of that, of course,
you know, I think that there area lot of artists out there that
could be much more accomplishedand prolific if they would lean
into community and all that itcan bring into the creative
process the creative process.
(42:48):
You know, one of the thingsthat I love about your story
today is just, very obviously,how much fun you've had along
the way.
You know, sometimes creativeprocess and making things can be
filled with struggle and strife, and you have managed to.
Not that you probably haven'thad some struggles, but you have
just had a lot of fun along theway.
(43:10):
What a beautiful way to go.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
Yeah, and thank you for reminding me of that.
It's funny.
I was literally journalingabout that this past week.
You know, I wrote down.
As funny as it sounds, I wrotedown.
God must like me.
Like, because even when thingswere hard, like they worked out,
(43:39):
I had a good time.
I didn't.
At the end of the day, you know, nothing has put me down where
I couldn't get back up and I'vehad a lot of fun and got to
experience a lot of life.
And as a callback to the wholeBukowski inspiring my poetry
when I was younger, morevulnerable and a little more
(44:03):
rambunctious, I have a tattoo onmy arm that says lucky.
And that's because there's apoem of his where he says I'm
lucky.
I've always been lucky, evenwhen I was starving to death,
the bands were playing for me,and I mean even when I was on
the mattress on a floor of ahouse in Austin that I was
(44:24):
renting for a couple hundredbucks a month, like I was having
a great time, you know.
Speaker 3 (44:31):
You know what makes your story really unique is you
really have crafted and curatedyour life.
You've done what you've wantedto do and when you had those
little nudges you didn't say, ohno, I could never do that, you
know that wouldn't be a goodthing to do.
You went off and and did it.
(44:51):
I mean, do you know how fewpeople can say that?
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Um, yeah, that's a thank you for that.
That's really validating, andit's hard for me to look at my
life that way sometimes, but 31years in, if I look back now, I
do feel that and I'm prettyhappy with where I've gotten
after it's all said and done,and I'm excited for what's next,
(45:19):
which is a great place to beExcited for what's coming, the
story about the mixology youknow and just thinking, god,
that looks like fun, I just wantto do it.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
And you just shifted life and it was a completely
different direction than whatyou had been doing and there you
were having a blast.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
You know it's stuff that stays with you.
You know I made coffee incollege to make some extra money
and now if people come andvisit me, I have an espresso
machine at home.
I still like.
It's not like I lost that formof creative expression.
It's not like I can't stillconnect with people in that way,
you know.
You just they're all tools inyour creative utility belt as
(46:02):
you move forward.
Speaker 3 (46:05):
Well, we're kind of running short on time, but I
want to with a couple of morethings.
First, I'd love to know what'snext.
What's next on the horizon,what's the next big thing that
you are kind of leaning into, orsomething that any messages
like wow, I want to go be, youknow, a barista, you know
something of that nature whereyou could just pivot.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
Yeah, so, um, I I've been thinking through this a lot
lately and there's differentthings that I'd like to do
career wise.
Um that, uh are both creativeand, you know, utilize
experience that I've already gotthe thing that is next for me
creatively that I'm most excitedabout.
We don't have to get too farinto this.
(46:50):
I don't have a hard out at ourtime limit, but I know we're at
the time limit that weoriginally set.
I've been doing ketaminetherapy and that is a whole
ketamine therapy.
It's all legal, it's nightinsurance is actually covering
it, but without getting too farinto it, it's a very
(47:13):
introspective experience and Ihave a journal with me whenever
it happens, and the thing I keepcoming back to is I have not
been writing for a long time ina way that I share with people.
I still journal pretty muchevery day, but I haven't been
actually writing anything toshare and I am really excited to
start doing that again.
(47:37):
That, I think.
As silly as it sounds, I'mreally excited to launch a blog
and I'm going to be doing itover the next couple of weeks.
I'm working on some posts rightnow, but that's not something
where I'm saying to myself ohyeah, this is going to be your
new career.
It's something where I'm sayingto myself you are happier when
(47:58):
you do this, so you need to doit again.
Speaker 3 (48:03):
You know your, your energy shifts as you talk about
it.
I mean I can feel it.
I can feel it, that's beautiful.
I love that.
And this will be you putting itout there Instead of just
writing it and sitting on it.
This will be you putting it outthere.
(48:23):
I think that's beautiful, youputting it out there.
Speaker 1 (48:26):
I think that's beautiful.
Yeah, I feel like all thejournaling starts to kind of be
like if you were carb loadingfor a marathon but you never ran
the marathon right.
So mentally, emotionally,creatively, I'm just kind of
making myself fatter right nowand it's time to actually put it
to good use.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
I love it.
Spot on.
Dwight, do you want to ask thebig question of the day, or
shall I?
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Oh, I'll try not to butcher it, but what is the one
thing that you could use toreally propel you forward?
If you had your one big ask, ifyou had that, if you were able
to have that one wish granted,that would propel you forward
with where you want to becreatively.
(49:17):
What is that thing?
Speaker 1 (49:34):
that's tough because I feel like I'm already finding
it, I'm already getting thatwish granted.
But at the end of the day, it'sjust community I am.
I am so much more driven,fulfilled, accountable to myself
and to others if I'm, if I'mdoing it in parallel with other
people.
It's the reason that I was ableto starve through being a
mixologist for a few years,because you're around people who
(49:56):
care just as much as you doabout creating a great product
and giving people something good.
So the thing that propels meforward the most, maybe my wish
is just a really, reallyfantastic writer's group.
Speaker 3 (50:14):
You know, like community, that's a beautiful
thing, oh, my God, man, I haveto my own heart yes, beautiful.
Well, this has been amazing.
I know that you were just alittle bit anxious about being
on your first podcast, butyou've just shown up and just
(50:38):
been really real and you feltyou know, I've just watched you
be really comfortable throughthe whole process.
I just want to reflect thatback to you.
You look very at ease, Thankyou.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
Thank you both, because I was not a little bit
nervous.
I was extremely nervous leadingup to this and just talking
with the two of you, it doesn'tfeel like anything to be nervous
about, you know.
It feels like we're having aconversation at Creative
Mornings and it's just.
I appreciate you guys being soeasy to get into this deep stuff
with.
Speaker 3 (51:14):
Thank you, thank you, David.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
That means a lot.
Speaker 3 (51:17):
Yeah, this has been truly amazing.
Speaker 1 (51:20):
Thank you, this was so much fun for me.
I'm really excited to start doing that again.
You know that's that I think.
As silly as it sounds like, I'mreally excited to like launch a
blog and I'm going to be doingit over the next couple of weeks
.
I'm working on some posts rightnow, but that's not something
where I'm saying to myself ohyeah, this is going to be your
(00:32):
new career.
It's something where I'm sayingto myself you are happier when
you do this, so you need to doit again hello and welcome to
(00:53):
another edition of for the loveof creatives.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I am your connections and community guy host, dwight,
and I'm joined by the OtherConnections and Community Guy
host, maddox, and today we arejoined by our featured guest,
david Powell.
Hello, david, hi everyone,great to be here.
We're so excited that you canjoin us on the podcast and I
(01:17):
know that there are some peoplewho might be quite familiar with
all your work and what you do,but for a lot of people this may
be the first time that they'rehearing about you, so could you
share just a little bit aboutwho you are and what you're
about?
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yeah, so I am a creative digital project manager
for a hospitality company in myfull-time role.
If you ever thought that youcouldn't have a really cool job
that was completely around barsand brewpubs, you were wrong.
I'm living proof of that.
And on the side I do a lot offreelance web design, product
design and a little bit ofdigital marketing, so I've
(01:54):
gotten to have my hand in a lotof really unique spaces,
everything from classicalviolins to the diviest bars that
you can name in Los Angeles.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah, so that's what I do for working creatively
right now.
How exciting, Tell me.
It sounds like you have thepotential to experience quite a
bit of adventure with your work.
Do you have any fun storiesabout things that you've gotten
into because of the work you do?
Speaker 1 (02:26):
any fun stories about things that you've gotten into
because of the work you do.
You know, I think that part ofthe fun of working in the
digital space for places like aphysical location, like a bar or
a group hub, is that theresearch is on the ground right.
One of the fun things that wedid last year one of the bars
that I work with in downtown LAwanted to feature a guide on
(02:46):
their website and also in likefull printouts of downtown LA
and their favorite spots in it.
So to do the research for that,I actually got to go with some
of the other members of thisproject team and we just went
and had burgers and pizzas andbeers across downtown LA and,
you know, would be sitting andhaving a slice of pizza
(03:07):
somewhere and then remember, ohyeah, there's this great coffee
spot around the corner.
It might be the best coffee indowntown LA.
So you know, we got to go andlike experience.
All those places talk to theowners and then you know, I get
to come back to my home officeand do like a weird 3D design
gopher head, because the bar iscalled the golden gopher.
So you know, just um, thatintersection of adventures in
(03:33):
person with people is reallywhat translates to better design
and more fun design um in thedigital space oh, I, you know
it's.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
It's great that you should say that, because I'm
reminded of some interestingresearch that I just learned
about, where a lot of designexperts them and worked with
mechanical parts came up withmore compelling and more
creative designs.
They were independently judgedto be the better designs than
(04:17):
those that just approached itwith, you know, using what they
knew about color form theoryangles.
With using what they knew aboutcolor form theory angles,
there's something about justactually being in it and
engaging all of your senses sothat you can really inject a
part of yourself, a part of yourperson, your essence, and I
(04:40):
think we all appreciate thatorganic, living aspect of what
we see.
So tell me how it is that youfound yourself in this really
cool space where you get to dothese cool things, because it's
not one of those tracks thatpeople look at in school and say
(05:02):
, oh well, I want to go and dopromotional work for bars and
hospitality.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Yeah, and I think that I'm in a pretty unique
position.
I work with a company that isover 20 locations strong in
three different states and weare exclusively a bar company.
We don't have restaurants, wedon't have coffee shops, it's
just bars.
And trying to find people inthat same vertical to even ask
questions is nearly impossible.
(05:33):
Not hard if you're looking forrestaurants or hotel groups, but
I'm not familiar with otherplaces that are just bars,
unless you count, like chilies,you know, and we're, we're all
unique concepts.
You know?
Um, I tell myself in thisposition because I was a
freelance life designer.
I went to austin and I completeda ui design boot camp to kind
(05:57):
of augment my self-taught skillsand while I was in austin for
that, I fell in love with thecity.
I, I moved there and while Iwas trying to freelance my way
into a more sustainable careeras a web designer, I started
going to happy hours and sawpeople making cocktails and I
was like this is the coolestthing ever and you get to do it
(06:18):
and talk to people, and at thatpoint I just didn't want to be
behind my computer not hangingout with people.
I was in my early 20s, so I hada moment where I was sitting at
a bar and thinking, man, it'dbe so cool if I could just like,
do this, and at the same timethe other thought that came to
my head was like, well, you'relike 22, 23.
(06:39):
You can.
So I was there a few years thatI'm just going to be a cocktail
bartender and open my own barsand it was so creatively
fulfilling and I'm sure I cantalk a little bit about that,
because if you want a creativecommunity like craft cocktail
bartenders had that on lock, atleast at the time I was doing it
a few years ago.
(06:59):
But eventually that nightlifeis no longer as attractive as it
was in your 20s or when youwere single.
I'm married now and I startedto want to not be in that for
the long term, but I stillreally love hospitality.
So the company that I wasworking for as a bartender this
(07:21):
over 20 bar group strong companyneeded somebody to just come in
and do like systems admin workand I took the experience I had
as a web designer and I saidlike, hey, I can come in and do
this.
I get technology, I get whatyou do, I understand the culture
of the company and I have beenin that role for gosh two and a
(07:41):
half years now and it's grownfrom hey, we need somebody to
create emails for us to you know.
Hey, can you help us developlike internal tools, using like
this mixture of AI, people youknow and just sheer force and
sweat, which has been a reallycool job.
(08:02):
It's hard to define.
That's why we just say digitalproject manager, but it's a lot
of different things and I haveto be really creative in the
role.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Oh, and that is awesome.
And, as you described howyou're kind of in a unique space
, you're on your own.
That forces you to be creativein the classical sense, because
you don't necessarily have arecipe that you can follow no,
and thank god for the few peoplewho will pick up the phone when
(08:30):
I do call.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Uh, you know they're not in exactly the same space,
but it's wonderful when I canhave that like that peer review.
But yeah, it's a lot of justtesting things and saying what
works.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
I think it's cool that you, as a creative, are not
just doing your creative work,but the people that you serve so
much of, the people that youcome in contact with, are
creatives.
That's got to make the wholeprocess just more interesting
and more enjoyable.
I would think I know it wouldbe for me to be serving well, I
(09:08):
mean, we, we do.
Everything we do has to do withcreatives, and it's such a
different animal than justdealing with everyday people
that don't maybe considerthemselves creative or, um, yeah
, I think that's really cool.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
It's definitely a great community to be part of.
And you're right, I mean thepeople who find themselves in
any kind of service industry areoften super creative people.
You know they're people whomaybe it's not what they want to
do full-time or, if it is, theyjust turn all their creativity
into that role.
But you know, I work withpeople who have gone from
bartenders to general managersfor the company to now people
(09:52):
who work in HR and they havegraphic design degrees and on
the side they have, like haircare products, e-commerce stores
.
You know.
You know our VP of Ops uses AIto try to build apps all the
time for fun.
You know our our vp of off usesai to try to build apps all the
time for fun.
You know, they're just peoplewho like to put something out
(10:12):
into the world and what a greatplace I'd like to dip back, oh
no, you're good.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
There's a little bit of a delay.
Go ahead, maddox.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Oh, I was just going to say I would like to go back,
maybe to an earlier time.
How did you come to realizethat you were creative, and how
old were you, and what did thatlook like when it first
manifested and you saw, youliked to make things?
Tell us that origin story,please.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Yeah, so for I mean, from as long as I can remember,
I really loved to draw.
I was really attracted to comicbooks and I loved cartoons when
I was a kid.
So I started out just drawingdragons and Batman or whatever.
And as I got older I took someart lessons.
(11:07):
I started getting reallyobsessed with sketching out
plans for this camp that Ithought I would make, or forts
in the backyard.
And as I got older and coulduse tools, sometimes I would
build the forts.
I remember making stilts in myparents' basement, like I just
wanted to make stuff and it wasreally fulfilling for me and I
(11:32):
think that I knew I was creativethen.
And as I got older, I kind ofturned my mind towards oh well,
like how can I make that makemoney?
Or I don't actually need to bethat creative, I just need to,
like do something that makesmoney.
And it's only been morerecently that I've admitted like
I'm never going to be fulfilledif I don't lean into this
(11:54):
creativity.
You know it's.
It's the reason that when Iwork on a project and I don't
think it's good, like I'm upsetfor days, like even, even if it
doesn't matter, even if it getsthe job done.
If it's not something that Iwant to show to somebody else,
it bothers me.
And you got to do what you do inwork and sometimes there are
(12:19):
deadlines and sometimes thereare budgets and constraints and
sometimes you just get calledaway to other things.
But I like making stuff that'sgood.
Uh, I, I saw that when I wasworking in the cocktail scene.
I saw that when I was incollege and I was a barista,
like I loved learning how to dolatte art, like anything that I
could create that was beautifulto me but also made somebody
(12:42):
else happy, like gave me thatpoint of connection with
somebody else, was the bestthing ever.
Unfortunately, I, you know,couldn't remain a barista
forever, but I, I get itcompletely.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
I I've started painting.
I've painted on and off, butI'm painting again and I don't
care whether my painting is everhanging in a gallery.
I don't care if I ever sell apainting, but the one thing that
I really want is I want tocreate good art.
So I get exactly what you'resaying.
(13:18):
If nobody ever sees it but meor maybe a few people that come
into my home, I just want tocreate something that makes me
feel good about it.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yeah, I mean it sounds narcissistic, but I go
back and read my own poems.
I don't share them with peopleusually, but it's not even that
I'm like, oh, that's so good.
Than with people usually, butlike it's not even that, I'm
like, oh, that was so good.
It's more.
(13:52):
I go back to need and I'mreminded of like hey, I did that
, like I felt some way and I putit on paper.
Whether it's good or not, likeit's there.
You know, I, I gave birth tothat and that's just so
fulfilling for me.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Um, may I?
I challenge you to uh toexcavate some of that stuff,
because I'm learning more andmore that art doesn't become art
until it's shared.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
That's so interesting , because that's the scary part.
You asked about going backwardsto when I knew I was creative.
I knew I was creative for along time, but I got more and
more scared to show it.
I actually remember when I wasliving in Austin.
I was writing a lot of poetryat the time and I finally got
the guts to go to an open micnight they had at this place
(14:38):
called Spider House Ballroom andI got up on the stage and I
read my poem and I got back offthe stage and they score it
there because it's technically acompetition.
And I got up on the stage and Iread my poem and I got back off
the stage and they score itthere because it's technically a
competition, and I don't evenknow what I scored.
I stepped off the stage.
After that I shook hands withsome of the other people who had
been in line and somebody elsegets up to read their poem and I
(14:58):
was like I think I need to gooutside and just smoke a
cigarette, because back then Ithought that was cool too.
And I go outside and I light acigarette and I walk into the
alley beside the ballroom and Ijust vomited everywhere in the
alley and I stood back up and Iwas like, oh so, like I'm really
scared to share this creativepart of myself.
I was like this is likeprobably a wake-up call for me
(15:22):
and I decided to walk back intothe ballroom and then I threw up
again.
I was like, okay, this night'sover for me.
But that was an experiencewhere I realized, oh, the hard
part for me is never going to bethe creating, it's going to be
having the guts to put it infront of people.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
This is a powerful callback to episode 33, patrick
williams, where he talked aboutcreative collapse.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
You're describing an experience that was your own
creative collapse when it cameto sharing your art yeah, I mean
I remembering that moment, Istill feel just like the same
way your stomach, just like yourheart dropping into your
stomach or your just thatemptying out.
(16:08):
I guess it's fitting that Isaid it's like birthing
something to write poetry, butyeah, that just burned into my
mind.
I ended up writing a storyabout it later.
So it wasn't like at all awasted experience.
I learned from it.
But it gave me this new respectfor all the friends that I'd
ever seen get up on stage inbands in high school or college
(16:33):
or you know friends.
I had a lot of friends who werein theater and I never
respected enough the guts thatit took for them to be up there.
I had not felt that much fearand I didn't realize it was fear
until after I got off the stage, like in the moment the
adrenaline went and I did thething.
(16:54):
But afterwards I was like thatwas the most terrifying thing
that I've ever done.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
You know, I suspect that if you stepped into your
courage and put some of yourcreativity out there whether
it's poetry or whatever it is,drawings, doesn't matter I think
that you would.
I really believe that you wouldfind that you would be the
(17:21):
worst critic.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Does that make sense.
Yeah, that's another thing too.
Anytime that I have stayed withpeople and given them a chance
to give feedback, they've neverbeen rude or hateful.
Sometimes the feedback isconstructive, but it's never
been that thing you're so afraidof Like, oh, you know you're
(17:46):
actually a bad person becauseyou wrote this poem, or you know
you're in last stand becausethis picture that you drew is
not up to my standards.
You know, that's just not.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Well, and we do get rude comments from time to time.
You know, every once in a whilewe'll get a rude comment on
something we put out there time.
You know, every once in a whilewe'll get a rude comment on
something we put out there,either a video that we have
created, or, you know, somebodywill say something that's just
downright mean.
And I've just kind of learned Imean hurt people, hurt people.
(18:16):
When that comes across, or whenI see it even happening to
somebody else somebody's bashingsomebody's something online I
just think, oh, that poor soul,they must be hurting because it
really isn't about the thingthat they're being so rude and
(18:36):
mean about.
I've actually trained myselfwhen I get something negative
like that, I just laugh, I makeit a point to burst into
laughter and then just move on.
I don't delete it, I don'trespond, I just laugh
hysterically and move on.
It's kind of a I don't knowcoping mechanism maybe, but it's
(19:00):
a conscious decision that Imake.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah, I mean the idea of I mean maybe maybe you guys
have done it, I'm not actuallysure if I ever have but the idea
of attacking a stranger on theinternet there's something that
they put out or attackingsomeone in person.
(19:24):
Even worse, like I don't eventhink I've ever booed anyone at
a show, at at a sports gameMaybe it's part of the culture,
but you know, to get yourself tothat point would mean that
you're pretty unhappy.
And I found that when I'm morecritical of people's creativity,
(19:46):
it's not because it's so bad,it's because I'm envious.
That you know.
Oh, I think I could probably dobetter, but they actually had
the guts to put it out there, todo it.
You know, it's an envy thingfor me.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
I think that is a profound awareness, david, and
probably something that ourlisteners at least a percentage
of them need to hear.
You know, I find myselfsometimes looking at art and
going, ooh, that doesn't workfor me at all.
You know, I don't say that'snot art, I don't do that.
I don't say that's bad, I justsay wow.
(20:25):
That does not speak to me.
But in the same breath,oftentimes I would say, and I
don't think for a minute that Icould do better.
It's not about that, it's just Imean things call to us or they
don't.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Right, it's subjective.
Yes.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
And it's okay to say something, doesn't call to you.
But when you bash it, somehowI've gotten somebody in my
Facebook feed.
He's an artist and a seasonedartist, and all of his videos
are about tearing people downand saying that's bullshit,
that's just shit, that's not art.
(21:07):
And I've tried to.
I'm not following him, so Ican't unfollow him.
I've tried to.
I'm not following him, so Ican't unfollow him.
I've tried everything I can toget him out of my feed and
nothing has worked.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
I don't know why he's in my feed, but yeah, every
video is where he is justripping somebody to shreds about
their art and I'm like thinkingwhat's going on with him like,
uh like kind of how gordonramsey made his name, uh, in the
(21:41):
kitchen, you know, um it andit's so funny because so many
people could get better if theywere allowed to be bad first, or
if they allowed themselves tobe bad first, you know.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Being bad first is an integral part of you.
We don't get to good withoutbeing bad first.
I'm creating some ugly shit andI you know, and it's just part
of the deal.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Right, I mean, it's the part of the deal, joker.
You know they just like aredoing what they see on tick tock
that's trending.
So you know they're not reallybeing original, they're not
really doing comedy and like tosome of their credit in the
interviews.
Um, I saw one comedian sayyou're gonna copy everybody else
for probably the first twoyears that you do it before you
find out what you have to say.
Yeah, that's part of learningthe craft.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
When I was writing.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Not only that, go ahead.
I was just going to say when Iwas writing, you know, blog
posts or poetry, I was just kindof parroting whoever I happened
to be reading at the time myshort stories from when I was in
my early 20s.
Like they're just me trying tobe Hunter S Thompson, like my
poetry from the same period,that was just me trying to be
(23:15):
Bukowski, and like you know, yougrow up and you realize that
you have your own things to sayand you know, maybe you don't
idolize the same people that youdid when you were younger and
dumber, but it's part of theprocess of finding who you are
and what you want to say.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
Well and, truthfully, there's not a lot out there
that's original anymore.
Yeah, you know, I will say I'mvery intuitive and I get these
like intuitive hits about ideasabout our business or about all
kinds of things, and I will comeup with something that just
(23:54):
literally comes into the top ofmy head in the form of an idea.
I'm very connected to thatunseen realm and I will go oh my
God, I just had the mostamazing idea.
And then either Dwight will say, well, that already exists, or
I'll go out and I'll Google andI'll find I've never seen it
before, I've never heard itbefore.
This was, for me, an originalidea and there it is already
(24:18):
completely out there andadvanced.
There's not a lot that'soriginal anymore.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
I'm not sure if it's been referenced on this.
No, I'm pretty sure it's beenreferenced on this podcast
before.
But in the creative act by RickRubin he mentions that if you
have an idea and you don't acton it, don't be surprised to see
someone else act on it at thesame time.
He basically is kind of talkingabout what you were talking
about, maddox.
There's the source of thiscreativity and this idea is
(24:54):
trying to choose a vessel, moreor less, and if you refuse to do
that vessel, it's going to findone.
So you know who's to say itcan't find a few right?
I interned at the NashvilleEntrepreneur Center back when.
Startups were crazy big inNashville and one of the things
(25:14):
that they would say when someonebrought in an idea to them was
who's already doing this?
And the person responded noone's doing this.
They would say well, if itcould make money, somebody
probably would.
So you're going to have toreally prove to us that this
completely original idea isworth investing in.
It's not a bad thing to beunoriginal.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
You can get original along the way.
We had an experience here justrecently where we were at a
weekend conference in our show.
It was called Art Boost and wewere asked to facilitate a time
on Saturday morning.
That was kind of like anetworking thing, because that's
what we do we connect peopleand bring people together and we
(26:05):
call it people magic and we'vecoined that phrase.
We are all about creatingpeople magic.
So we went in and we had about25 minutes, was all, and we
created people magic.
It was the loudest, most noisypart of the entire two-day
conference.
It was the most energetic and alot of people told us that
(26:26):
afterwards.
And two weeks later there wassomebody that actually told us
that they were hosting something, they had loved what they saw
and they had taken our idea andmassaged a little bit to fit
their use and we were actuallygoing to something where they
were doing this and it was justlike it might have well been us.
(26:49):
It was crazy and I had thismixed bag of feelings.
There was this part of me thatwas going wow, that's really
flattering, you know.
It's like she thought what wewere doing was so fabulous that
she ripped off and duplicatedR&D, as they say.
And then there was this part ofme that kind of felt like, wow,
(27:10):
that's kind of nervy, kind ofballsy to do it right in front
of our faces.
You know and I don't have anyshe's a lovely person.
I'm not bashing her in any way.
She did a decent job ofdemonstrating that.
But it was kind of thisdouble-edged sword.
I was kind of like, you know,but when you think about it,
(27:35):
most of the things that we do,we've picked up little hints of
it here and hints of it thereand we learned something in this
training.
And then we saw something wherewe were being trained or I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
You know, everything's borrowed
everything's borrowed, yeah, andI'm going to be careful how I
say this because I don't wantyou guys to get hate and I don't
want hate personally and I meanit's very murky ethically with
(28:07):
generative AI right now, becauseit's pulling from copyrighted
individual contributor kind ofmaterial in a little more of a
direct way.
The thing that I am thinkingabout with that, though, is how
do we develop our own personalstyles in whatever we do without
(28:31):
going and kind of trainingourselves on what other people
have already done A little bitdifferent in the sense of
generative AI?
But it made me when I saw a lotof people talking about how
it's copyright infringement orit's, you know, a danger to
creators.
I understand that and I agreewith that, but it made me think
(28:57):
well, how can I say thatanything I do is original if I
also kind of feel like I'm goingand training myself on, just
like looking at things otherpeople have already created?
And I think probably it comesdown to the intention and the
effort and the fact that Ipersonally have to put my own
life experiences into it, my ownpain, and it's not just an
algorithm on an algorithm, butyou know, it makes you question
(29:21):
like how original can I be andwhat?
What makes it different andunique to me?
You know, and I think that thatjust comes down to what are my
life experiences that I'm addingto this.
Maddox, when you were talkingabout how that woman was kind of
doing the same thing, with alittle bit of a massaging on it,
(29:45):
I thought about that OscarWilde quote.
Often just the first half ofthe quote Imitation is the
sincerest form of flattery.
Well, the other half of thatquote is that mediocrity can pay
to greatness.
And not to say that what shewas doing was mediocre.
But when you just go andcompletely imitate someone else,
it's going to be mediocrecompared to the lightning in a
(30:07):
bottle that they had when theyoriginally had the idea, until
you really massage it and addyour own personality and
creativity to it.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
You are spot on when I think about how we have
developed what we have developed.
It has come at one littlesnippet at a time from so many
places, and what we've pulledtogether is, yes, something that
we learned over here andsomething that we saw over here,
but we've put our own spin onit and we've taken this
(30:41):
collection of things.
I mean, I've not seen anythingand we go to a lot of shit.
We go to a lot of shit that hasto do with artists and
creatives and we don't ever seeanything remotely like what we
do.
We don't ever.
But we saw little snippets ofall that from a gazillion things
(31:05):
that we've done.
We're always tweaking andaltering just a little bit, so
it's like we took Just a littlebit.
(31:35):
So it's like we took.
You know, we found $101 billsas we scoured aroundight.
Have we ever literally imitatedsomething that?
Speaker 2 (31:39):
we saw somewhere else .
No, because we can appreciatethat there's, and in most cases
it would not be appropriate, itwould be tone deaf to what it is
that we were trying to bring itto, if we just tried to
replicate something that we saw.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
I mean, we've been at Creative Mornings for a year
now, a little over, and we loveCreative Mornings and we've been
very, very specific in saying,not just to ourselves but to
others you know, we serve thesame community that they do, but
we don't serve it in the waythey do and we don't intend to
(32:16):
serve it in the way they do.
They have that covered.
We're going to serve thecommunity a completely different
way.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
It's funny too.
I mean talk about CreativeMornings, which is where I met
the two of you.
But I started going to creativemornings when I was sitting in
the car waiting for my wife toget out of her night school
classes at SMU for a graduateprogram that she's doing.
(32:48):
And I was just listening toDavid Bowie and, like you know,
the his catalog of music issuper varied and different.
But I was like, wow, this islike there's some real artistry
here that I've been missing inmy life, just like this is like
music for its own sake.
(33:08):
A lot of it's not reallycommercially very viable.
Anyway, it kind of put thatcreative bug in me again where I
was like I need to get aroundpeople who are doing creative
things again.
The reason I bring it up isbecause during the time that I
first started going to CreativeMornings, I was like, oh, I'll
listen to this podcast aboutDavid Bowie's life.
(33:28):
Maybe it'll inspire me in someway that I haven't been inspired
in a little bit, trying to bemore creative.
His entire first decade ofmaking music was a huge failure
because he was just trying torip off whatever was trendy and
he didn't actually see very muchsuccess until he got past that
period of just imitatingeverybody else, you know.
(33:51):
Then he got some commercialsuccess and my favorite records
by him are when he was makingexperimental music that he
didn't really seem to care thatmuch about the reception it was,
it was just because it was fun.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
But yeah, like I do think that the imitation is a
viable aspect of it.
You know, I find for myself asa baby artist you know somebody
that's still very much in thebeginning stages of learning
techniques the only way I canlearn that technique is watching
somebody else do that techniqueand then trying to do that
(34:27):
technique.
To me, it's not aboutreplicating a painting that
somebody else has done or asculpture, it's more about
practicing the technique thatthey were demonstrating.
And so there is a lot ofimitation right now and I think
that has its place, you know, inanything.
(34:49):
I think that you can see apublic speaker and say, wow,
they did such an amazing job ofreally like capturing the
audience, that charisma, and youwant to emulate that and
sometimes you do you have tolike?
copy it briefly until until youdon't you know?
Speaker 2 (35:12):
well, yeah, you gotta find your own spin on it.
Yes, it's.
It's gonna fall flat if allyou're doing is a direct
imitation.
But if you can lean into what'sgenuine, what is authentic to
you, what's your thumbprint,that is what's going to land
charismatically and elevate youresteem, the way that you're
(35:36):
viewed in a space, becausepeople see something that has a
soul and they are just drawn toit because it's real has a soul
and they are just drawn to itbecause it's real.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
I mean, it's like if you were trying to become a chef
and express yourself throughcooking.
You're not going to reinventthe method by which you saute
something or bake something, orjulienne carrots or whatever.
You've got to learn all thatfirst and and then you kind of
have the medium and the toolsand maybe then you decide that
you're going to create a newshape of pasta after you've
already learned.
(36:14):
You know why people sell theexisting shapes of pasta.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
You know it's like.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Yeah you have to master a technique first.
Right.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
And there's.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Oh, sorry, I was just going to say, Maddox, in a
conversation that we had once, Iremember I was talking about
podcasting and you recommended acourse and you said I'm not
trying to reinvent the wheelwhen it comes to just getting a
podcast going.
If somebody has a wheel, I willbuy it from them so that I can
go where I want to go.
It's not about reinventing thevehicle.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
Yeah, and you know God, the guy that taught that
course.
I'm in podcast number two nowand my podcasts are not even
remotely anything like hispodcasts are not even remotely
anything like his.
But the structure that hetaught me in how to put it
together that was.
You know, there are aspectsthat and even still, I made it
(37:17):
mine.
I started off with the originalstructure that he taught and as
I went into it I began to seeoh, I think this would work
better for me and I would adjustit as I saw fit.
But you know, he was sellinghis and I bought it, so I had a
right to use exactly what.
(37:40):
Yeah, you know I say that a lot.
You're very right.
A lot of people have heard mesay I'm at a time in my life
where I don't have the time orthe energy to reinvent the wheel
.
You know, I'm getting ready toturn 69 years old and so I want
the fast track.
(38:00):
If I can buy the wheel ratherthan reinvent the wheel, and I
can afford to buy that wheel, Iwill do that.
I will absolutely do that.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
And we see that with all kinds of all of the modern
conveniences of life.
You know that I love to bakebread, but we're going to buy it
in loaves because I'm not goingto spend all day with all of
the effort.
And then how far do you want totake that?
Do I want to mill my own wheat?
Right?
Speaker 3 (38:34):
When I first started painting, I just went out and
bought paints and canvases andbrushes and just started putting
paint on the canvas and Iwasn't terribly successful.
I produced a couple of piecesthat I was pleased with and I
wasn't terribly successful.
I produced a couple of piecesthat I was pleased with, but I
wasn't terribly successful.
And this time around I've kindof gotten really back into it
(38:54):
and this time I've realized youreally did some things that just
didn't work.
You know, a I started off withreally huge canvases.
I went out and bought reallybig canvases but yet I had zero
technique and I just startedputting paint on the canvas.
This time I've started off withsmaller canvases and paper.
(39:16):
This time I'm actually takingclasses.
Most of them are online, sothey're video education but once
again I'm paying for somebodyto teach me techniques that once
I have that technique down,then I can use that technique
any way I want and make it mine,and it's a game changer.
(39:36):
You know, I would imagine thatthere's probably a lot of
artists that don't ever have anykind of training whatsoever.
They really do just get in andstart playing with the stuff and
keep going until they do findtheir way and make something
(39:57):
their own.
But once again I tried that andthat didn't work for me.
You know, I thought I got tohave some technique here, you
know?
Whatever that is, it's just aninteresting thing.
There's so many different waysto skin a cat and when we had
(40:17):
this conversation just recentlyon another podcast.
We, as human beings, are trainedto think there's only one right
answer.
School teaches us that there'sone right answer and you're
either right or you're wrong.
And life is not like that.
There's often many solutions toany problem, and it's not
(40:37):
always an either, or Many timesit can be an and, but we don't
see it that way because that'snot the way we were raised and
entrenched.
Whatever the word you would,yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Yeah Well, I was just going to say I love, David, the
way that you were able toembrace the different seasons in
your life, so you had interestthat drove you to try to create
using the poetry and the blog,and when you were really
(41:18):
entrenched in the bar scene,when you worked as a barista and
you were able to gracefullymove from one chapter to the
next graceful would be a stretchif anybody, um, who uh knows me
for a long period of time,listens to this podcast.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Um, I'm self-aware, everybody graceful might be
going a little far, but well butyou know the, the thing that
sticks out, the spirit of improv.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
You know you took what you were given and you were
able to move forward, whereasfor some people, if the change
had been too severe, too soon,they would collapse.
They would have a real problempicking themselves up and moving
forward.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
Oh, go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
I was just going to say that that goes back to what
you guys are all about.
It wasn't just the creativitythat drove me.
I had some good people aroundme.
You know the community helpswith that tremendously.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
Yeah, we're very big believers of that, of course,
you know, I think that there area lot of artists out there that
could be much more accomplishedand prolific if they would lean
into community and all that itcan bring into the creative
process the creative process.
(42:48):
You know, one of the thingsthat I love about your story
today is just, very obviously,how much fun you've had along
the way.
You know, sometimes creativeprocess and making things can be
filled with struggle and strife, and you have managed to.
Not that you probably haven'thad some struggles, but you have
just had a lot of fun along theway.
(43:10):
What a beautiful way to go.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
Yeah, and thank you for reminding me of that.
It's funny.
I was literally journalingabout that this past week.
You know, I wrote down.
As funny as it sounds, I wrotedown.
God must like me.
Like, because even when thingswere hard, like they worked out,
(43:39):
I had a good time.
I didn't.
At the end of the day, you know, nothing has put me down where
I couldn't get back up and I'vehad a lot of fun and got to
experience a lot of life.
And as a callback to the wholeBukowski inspiring my poetry
when I was younger, morevulnerable and a little more
(44:03):
rambunctious, I have a tattoo onmy arm that says lucky.
And that's because there's apoem of his where he says I'm
lucky.
I've always been lucky, evenwhen I was starving to death,
the bands were playing for me,and I mean even when I was on
the mattress on a floor of ahouse in Austin that I was
(44:24):
renting for a couple hundredbucks a month, like I was having
a great time, you know.
Speaker 3 (44:31):
You know what makes your story really unique is you
really have crafted and curatedyour life.
You've done what you've wantedto do and when you had those
little nudges you didn't say, ohno, I could never do that, you
know that wouldn't be a goodthing to do.
You went off and and did it.
(44:51):
I mean, do you know how fewpeople can say that?
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Um, yeah, that's a thank you for that.
That's really validating, andit's hard for me to look at my
life that way sometimes, but 31years in, if I look back now, I
do feel that and I'm prettyhappy with where I've gotten
after it's all said and done,and I'm excited for what's next,
(45:19):
which is a great place to beExcited for what's coming, the
story about the mixology youknow and just thinking, god,
that looks like fun, I just wantto do it.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
And you just shifted life and it was a completely
different direction than whatyou had been doing and there you
were having a blast.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
You know it's stuff that stays with you.
You know I made coffee incollege to make some extra money
and now if people come andvisit me, I have an espresso
machine at home.
I still like.
It's not like I lost that formof creative expression.
It's not like I can't stillconnect with people in that way,
you know.
You just they're all tools inyour creative utility belt as
(46:02):
you move forward.
Speaker 3 (46:05):
Well, we're kind of running short on time, but I
want to with a couple of morethings.
First, I'd love to know what'snext.
What's next on the horizon,what's the next big thing that
you are kind of leaning into, orsomething that any messages
like wow, I want to go be, youknow, a barista, you know
something of that nature whereyou could just pivot.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
Yeah, so, um, I I've been thinking through this a lot
lately and there's differentthings that I'd like to do
career wise.
Um that, uh are both creativeand, you know, utilize
experience that I've already gotthe thing that is next for me
creatively that I'm most excitedabout.
We don't have to get too farinto this.
(46:50):
I don't have a hard out at ourtime limit, but I know we're at
the time limit that weoriginally set.
I've been doing ketaminetherapy and that is a whole
ketamine therapy.
It's all legal, it's nightinsurance is actually covering
it, but without getting too farinto it, it's a very
(47:13):
introspective experience and Ihave a journal with me whenever
it happens, and the thing I keepcoming back to is I have not
been writing for a long time ina way that I share with people.
I still journal pretty muchevery day, but I haven't been
actually writing anything toshare and I am really excited to
start doing that again.
(47:37):
That, I think.
As silly as it sounds, I'mreally excited to launch a blog
and I'm going to be doing itover the next couple of weeks.
I'm working on some posts rightnow, but that's not something
where I'm saying to myself ohyeah, this is going to be your
new career.
It's something where I'm sayingto myself you are happier when
(47:58):
you do this, so you need to doit again.
Speaker 3 (48:03):
You know your, your energy shifts as you talk about
it.
I mean I can feel it.
I can feel it, that's beautiful.
I love that.
And this will be you putting itout there Instead of just
writing it and sitting on it.
This will be you putting it outthere.
(48:23):
I think that's beautiful, youputting it out there.
Speaker 1 (48:26):
I think that's beautiful.
Yeah, I feel like all thejournaling starts to kind of be
like if you were carb loadingfor a marathon but you never ran
the marathon right.
So mentally, emotionally,creatively, I'm just kind of
making myself fatter right nowand it's time to actually put it
to good use.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
I love it.
Spot on.
Dwight, do you want to ask thebig question of the day, or
shall I?
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Oh, I'll try not to butcher it, but what is the one
thing that you could use toreally propel you forward?
If you had your one big ask, ifyou had that, if you were able
to have that one wish granted,that would propel you forward
with where you want to becreatively.
(49:17):
What is that thing?
Speaker 1 (49:34):
that's tough because I feel like I'm already finding
it, I'm already getting thatwish granted.
But at the end of the day, it'sjust community I am.
I am so much more driven,fulfilled, accountable to myself
and to others if I'm, if I'mdoing it in parallel with other
people.
It's the reason that I was ableto starve through being a
mixologist for a few years,because you're around people who
(49:56):
care just as much as you doabout creating a great product
and giving people something good.
So the thing that propels meforward the most, maybe my wish
is just a really, reallyfantastic writer's group.
Speaker 3 (50:14):
You know, like community, that's a beautiful
thing, oh, my God, man, I haveto my own heart yes, beautiful.
Well, this has been amazing.
I know that you were just alittle bit anxious about being
on your first podcast, butyou've just shown up and just
(50:38):
been really real and you feltyou know, I've just watched you
be really comfortable throughthe whole process.
I just want to reflect thatback to you.
You look very at ease, Thankyou.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
Thank you both, because I was not a little bit
nervous.
I was extremely nervous leadingup to this and just talking
with the two of you, it doesn'tfeel like anything to be nervous
about, you know.
It feels like we're having aconversation at Creative
Mornings and it's just.
I appreciate you guys being soeasy to get into this deep stuff
with.
Speaker 3 (51:14):
Thank you, thank you, David.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
That means a lot.
Speaker 3 (51:17):
Yeah, this has been truly amazing.
Speaker 1 (51:20):
Thank you, this was so much fun for me.
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