October 27, 2025 • 46 mins
What if the most powerful upgrade to your creative life isn’t a new tool, but a new identity? We’re expanding our platform with a third pillar—becoming—and opening up a candid, behind-the-scenes conversation on choosing who you grow into and why that choice changes everything.
We unpack the myth of arrival and the trap of quick fixes, then move into the deeper work that actually sustains craft and community. From self love as a daily practice to sharpening the saw for true creative flow, we explore how identity-based change helps you make better art, hold your boundaries, and find fulfillment that outlasts a milestone. You’ll hear vulnerable stories about grief, shyness, and the slow, audacious steps it takes to speak on camera with presence or walk into a room of strangers without shrinking.
We dig into inner child work, the quiet power of intention words like Believe, Courage, and Audacity, and the freedom of reframing “what should I do?” into “who do I need to become?” Along the way, we examine reinvention and personas, drawing lessons from public figures who reclaimed their voice and ownership, and we highlight the practical habits that let creativity move through you rather than stall at the surface.
If you’re ready to make work that feels aligned—and to be the person who can carry it—press play. Then tell us: what trait are you choosing to cultivate next? Subscribe, share this with a creative friend, and leave a review to help more people find the show.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:10):
What got you here won't get you there.
And to unpack that, you know,who you are currently got you to
where you are currently.
And to get to where you want tobe in the future, you can't get
there being who you've been.
You have to figure out who youwho you need to be to get to
(00:32):
that next stage of evolution andgrowth.
Hello, hello.
It's Maddox and Dwight, andyou're listening to for the Love
of Creatives podcast.
(00:54):
So today is an unusual episodethat we're recording, and we're
actually pretty excited aboutit.
Today, as you can tell, we don'thave a guest.
It's just going to be the two ofus.
So we have been doing someresearch.
We have um been gaining somefeedback from some of our fans
(01:15):
and listeners, you guys.
And we have made the decision toadd um a component, a new
component to the podcast and toour platform.
So as you've probably heard overepisodes, if you've listened or
you've read some of the thingsthat we do on social media, we
always say that for the love ofcreatives podcast is about the
(01:38):
intersection of creativity andcommunity.
And today we're going to give,we realized that it was a stool
with only two legs.
So today we're going to give thestool a third leg.
And that third leg is becoming.
So we're we're looking atcreativity, community, and
(02:02):
becoming.
And Dwight and I are going tobat that back and forth a little
bit today.
You're getting to see kind ofbehind the scenes real time
because we haven't fleshed thisall out.
We've had a few thoughts aboutit and really realize this is
the direction we want to go, butyou're going to get to see it
happen real time.
(02:23):
So let's jump in.
And uh Dwight, why don't whydon't you share your some of
your vision first and what'sgoing, what's rolling around in
that beautiful brain of yours?
SPEAKER_01 (02:34):
Well, we've had an opportunity to have a lot of
people weigh in about this.
And we've even had some gueststhat have shared some important
insights.
I mean, I I remember in ourconversation with Mark Russell
Jones, he talked a lot about howit is that we come into the
(02:54):
world fully formed.
And uh he was quoting uh HermanHess uh on that theory.
And to me, that resonated agreat deal with what I'd read in
Robert Green's mastery about howthere are so many forces that
make it so that we lose touchwith what it is that that's
(03:17):
really who we are and who we'remeant to be.
Um similar thing with uh PatrickWilliams, you know, his whole
concept of uh having a situationwhere we have uh creative
collapse or creativecolonization.
It's the the same concept.
And I I can see that there's alot of truth and beauty in that.
(03:40):
And I think that we can allrelate to what it is to have our
true essence uh beaten out of usor shamed or uh you know, we're
we're made to conform toexpectations.
And I think a lot of becoming isrecovering from the trauma of
being told that how you're notright, how you don't fit what it
(04:02):
is that's expected.
SPEAKER_00 (04:05):
Yes.
And and while I think becomingis not necessarily like a brand
new topic, I mean, MichelleObama wrote a book entitled
Becoming Here just a few shortyears ago.
I think that it's new enoughthat there's a still a freshness
about it and there's a lot toexplore.
And I think that there's a lotof people that, you know, maybe
(04:26):
even going right now, okay,becoming what what exactly are
you talking about?
And so we're gonna kind ofunpack that, but we also want to
say that we are we are there.
Dwight and I are both in a aplace of becoming right now.
This is um this is a topic and away of being and a part of our
(04:51):
growth process that we've beenaware of for a while, but it was
kind of unconscious.
We were we were we were workingon becoming, but we may not have
necessarily had the language forit that we have now.
Um, I know one of the thingsthat is coming up for me is that
(05:12):
I'm realizing that we are alwaysin a state of becoming.
As human beings, we are alwaysin a state of becoming.
But there's two ways that showsup.
One is unconsciously, and theother one is consciously.
SPEAKER_01 (05:28):
Oh, I'd say there's more than two.
Um, there's uh an ancient bit ofwisdom that's told uh basically
as we never step into the sameriver twice.
And if you unpack that, it'stalking about more than just
something that would come up ona hiking trip.
(05:49):
We are forever going to bedifferent.
We will never be the exact sameperson that we are, no matter
how you look at it.
SPEAKER_00 (06:00):
Always changing, always evolving, sometimes
consciously and sometimesunconsciously.
You know, I can look back andrealize a lot of the
unconscious, you know, and whenyou're when you're becoming
something unconsciously, it maynot be something you want to
become.
Yeah.
And that's where the you know,bringing it into conscious
(06:21):
awareness is such a big thing.
Um, for me, it's very, verypowerful.
Once I became aware, you know,and and and I know that this may
be so, but what I'm about to saymay raise some eyebrows.
You may say, I don't, well, Idon't believe that.
And that's okay if you don'tbelieve that.
I believe it with all my heart.
And and that is we we as humanbeings also get to choose who it
(06:48):
is that we want to become.
You know, there's this, youknow, come back to home,
discover who you've always been,and and there's value in that,
and I get that, but there'ssomething missing there for me.
I don't know that I want to justfind and discover the person
(07:08):
I've always been, because I'mnot as exactly sure what that
is.
But when you say, who do youwant to become?
Now I'm not, you know, there's adifference between who do you
want to become and what do youwant to become?
Right.
You know, who do you what do youwant to be?
What do you want to be when yougrow up?
(07:29):
A fireman, an astronaut, allthose things.
That's not what we're talkingabout here.
Um, I think that who you want tobecome comes first before you
can really decide what do youwant to become.
They play, they they interplaytogether, but it's hard to know
what you want to become when youdon't know who you want to
(07:51):
become.
SPEAKER_01 (07:53):
Right.
And I think that there are a lotof things that serve people
looking for the quick fix.
They want to productize it andmake it so that, oh, I've got an
itch that I want to scratch, andsomeone wants to sell me on
something that's just going toget me from A to B.
Well, for some people, thatmight be all that they're
prepared to embrace, but there'salways a lot more.
(08:17):
There's something moreunsettling that's causing that
discomfort than that thing thatyou're immediately aware of.
And until you're willing toconfront the those things that
are the source of the traumas,the things that are causing the
real discomfort, there's alwaysgoing to be uh an emptiness that
you're trying to fill.
SPEAKER_00 (08:38):
I I I think you're I think you're spot on.
I think we linger sometimes inthe surface.
And what where we really findour answers is is in the deeper
place.
You know, uh we talk about thisin manifesting.
And, you know, when you say,gee, I want to have this
high-powered job or I want tomake a million dollars.
(09:00):
That's never the end game.
So what would it, what would itmean to you if you had that
high-powered job?
What would be possible?
Right.
And and we don't ask, ask thosehard questions.
SPEAKER_01 (09:11):
Um, and and I think that's the the trap that we're
we're pushed into for anythingthat makes it so that people
say, well, I will be happy if,or I'll be happy when.
And it should not, yourhappiness should not be
something that's based on anexternal variable.
SPEAKER_00 (09:34):
Exactly.
And and this is it, you justlaid the perfect energy for the
segue, which is, you know, wethink when I get there, I'll be
happy.
And it doesn't matter whetheryou're talking about getting
that million dollars or thathigh-powered job or that new
car, or whether you're becomingsomething that you truly wanted
(09:56):
to become, we don't ever reallyarrive.
There's no, there's nodestination.
You get that.
I mean, how many times have yousaid, Oh, I want a new car?
And you got that new car, andfor about a week or two, you
were really excited, andeverything was like, Oh my God,
I've arrived.
And then next thing you know,you're focused on something else
(10:20):
you want.
It's like, that's why I saythere's it's not a destination,
it's a pit stop.
Yes, if you made thisdeclaration about who you wanted
to be, you know, I I I wasmeditating this morning, and um
one of the it's a guidedmeditation, and one of the
(10:41):
pieces of guided meditation isto think about somebody that you
truly love, and and then youknow, see that love as a color
and let your heart fill withthat colored energy of that
person you love.
And then you expand it out toyour your bedroom, your home,
(11:02):
your neighborhood, your city,your country, and the globe.
And it's this beautifulmeditation, it's about expanding
love.
But and I've listened to thismeditation on and off for a
number of years, but in the lastfew weeks, there have been many
times when he said, think aboutsomebody you truly love.
(11:23):
And the face that came into mymind was my own.
And I realized how I for somewell, for a number of years now,
I set a goal that my the thing Iwanted to become, the person
that I wanted to become, wassomebody that truly loved
(11:45):
himself.
So it's not about things, thisbecoming thing is I don't want
to, it's not about becoming theCEO.
It it's about something so muchmore deeper and more profound
than that.
I wanted to become the personwho truly loves himself.
(12:06):
And now when he says, think ofsomebody you truly love, and my
face pops into my own mind.
I get this, okay.
I'm I'm laying in this in bedmeditating, and I my eyes are
closed, and all of a sudden Iget this huge, shitty, eating
grin on my face because it's soamazing to think about my own
(12:26):
face coming into my mind.
And that's something that I'vebeen becoming.
Now, will I ever fully arrivethere?
Perhaps not.
Maybe I'll hit a pit stop.
You know, right now the pit stopis woo-hoo! My face is coming
into my mind when I when Imeditate and hear that.
(12:47):
But becoming is it's not acircle, it's a spiral.
unknown (12:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:52):
You know, you it's like a spiral staircase.
You come back around whereyou're in the same position, but
you're one floor higher.
SPEAKER_01 (13:03):
Your perspective is different.
SPEAKER_00 (13:05):
So, you know, if and I'll I'll demonstrate this.
If you've ever thought, wow,wow, I'm so glad I finally
learned that lesson.
That was a really hard lesson tolearn.
I don't have to do that anymore.
And then a few months down theroad, here you were in that
lesson again, and you're going,What the fuck happened?
I thought I had this lessoncompletely down.
I thought I learned it.
(13:27):
Well, the truth is you learnedit on the first floor level.
Now you've gone around thatspiral staircase and you're on
the second floor now, and you'regetting that lesson on a higher
level.
And this is something thatinstead of being like, I can't
go through this again, we shouldbe grateful.
We should go, oh my God, I'mgetting to learn this on a
(13:49):
deeper level now.
And this is gonna help me inevery aspect of my beingness and
my life.
SPEAKER_01 (13:56):
And you know, there's something about that
contentment that gives you agreater appreciation and the
ability to focus.
Whereas if you're just trying togo after that next carrot, you
go after that that next thingthat's supposed to be what
you're after, there there'ssomething empty inside.
(14:18):
You're you're not able to fullyembrace those those lessons that
you should have gotten before.
You know, there is and I thinkthat we see these lessons um
delivered in ways that I thatare um palatable for for where
we are to hear it.
(14:39):
Uh I know that in uh a lot ofcovey's work, there's um or
there's the the story of AbrahamLincoln, you know, when asked if
he had four hours to complete atask, how exactly would he go
about it, you know, to cut downthe tree?
And he would spend the majorityof that time sharpening the saw.
(15:02):
And if you unpack what what'sbeing said there, you know,
that's when you're sharpeningthe saw, just the act itself is
meditative in that it's it'srepetitive.
It's seems to have nothing to dowith the the intended outcome of
having a tree cut down.
(15:23):
But it's because you you takethe the time to spend the effort
that you're able to, in the end,have the most impact with the
effort.
You know, the same the same istrue in um the in Sun Tzu's um
the the whole concept of um theart of war.
(15:46):
The majority of what what'sbeing talked about in that is a
way of relating, a way of being,so that to be the baddest
warrior on the battlefield, youare setting yourself you're
you're setting yourself up sothat you will never have to pull
(16:06):
your sword.
That's ultimately your goal.
You want to ascend to a statewhere even though you will have
had the hard skills, you're notgoing to put yourself in harm's
way.
You're not going tounnecessarily put yourself at
risk because you're putting inplace all of the things to make
(16:27):
it so that uh if there'ssomething that's uh increasing
your risk, you have acontingency plan.
Uh and the whole thing, thewhole concept of becoming is
ascending to a state mentally,spiritually, where instead of
(16:49):
being drawn to the next shinything that's pulling you in a
direction, you can have thatmoment of pause, that moment of
quiet, where you can evaluate ifit's something that really
serves you, if it's reallysomething that allows you to
better serve others.
And that's that's not aconversation that that everyone
(17:11):
is ready to have.
SPEAKER_00 (17:13):
Yeah, you call that out.
I agree completely.
You know, back to your storywith Abraham Lincoln, because in
that moment, and I'd heard thatstory before, I hadn't thought
of it in a long time, but whatcame up for me, and it relates
to what I'm doing right now as apainter, I'm painting.
(17:34):
And I find that when I ampainting, sharpening the saw,
um, it is incredibly meditative.
The whole world goes away andall that exists are is the
brush, the paint, and thecanvas, or whatever other tool
or medium I'm using.
It's just, it's right there.
But I've noticed that in thatspace, you know, when you're
(17:57):
when Abraham Lincoln wassharpening the saw, that doesn't
take a lot of brain power.
You know, you you get the thestroke in motion and you just
work back and forth, and there'sthis stillness like meditation,
where then whatever higher poweryou believe in, because that's
where all creation comes from,you know, and it it, you know, I
(18:21):
always like to say, I callmyself a creative, we're all
creatives, but truthfully, whatwe are is we're the conduit.
It is creativity coming from theuniverse through us.
It's not coming from us.
Otherwise, it would get stalereally, really fast.
(18:43):
I mean, that's why there'salways these new ideas, because
those new ideas are coming fromsomeplace greater than us.
And in that stillness, whenyou're sharpening that saw, is
when it's like the most fertilesoil for those little seeds to
sprout and the ideas and thecreativity to come.
(19:03):
Um, I let's bring it home for aminute and let's really focus
on, you know, this being, thebecoming part of it for
creatives, because that's whatwe are here.
We're creatives.
And we all want to be the bestcreative we can be.
That that's a given.
You know, nobody wakes up in themorning and says, today I think
I'll be a shitty creative.
(19:24):
We just don't do that.
So we all have this unspoken,perhaps universal goal that we
want to be the best creative wecan be.
And I believe that's wherebecoming comes in.
When we can step into thisquestion of this space of
exploration and the unknown andcuriosity, and say, well, who is
(19:51):
it that I want to become?
And what would be possible forme if I became that person?
There's a lot of questionsaround this, you know.
What has become possible for meas I have leaned farther into
self-love.
Well, we don't have enough timefor me to tell you all that, but
(20:11):
it's been a lot.
A lot.
Um, you know, and another takeon becoming in um early 2020, I
went to Mind Valley Live, whichis a personal growth
organization.
If you haven't heard from it,just um search mindvalley.com
(20:35):
and you'll find it.
It's the largest provider ofonline education on the globe.
And I went to one of their liveevents in uh LA.
And they had asked eachparticipant, there was a over a
thousand people there, they'dask each participant to decide,
(20:57):
uh uh, like they wanted us togive them a word.
What is a word, something thatyou're wanting to lean into,
something that has meaning foryou?
We also call it intention words,and this is kind of a thing that
we're all maybe a littlefamiliar with this.
So I chose the word believe,because at that moment in my
(21:18):
life, I knew that there might beall kinds of amazing things
possible for me if I could stepinto a greater belief in myself.
Well, when I got to theconference in LA at the
registration table, they had alittle gift for me.
And it was, it was a littlebracelet like the one I have on
(21:38):
here.
It's a little washer with alittle cord, and engraved in the
washer was the word believe.
And I wore that bracelet forprobably three years.
It meant so much to me.
It was my daily reminder.
I couldn't, I couldn't look inthe mirror, I couldn't look down
without seeing that littleengraved word believe.
(22:02):
And there was a point where Ireally felt like, wow, is there
more?
Yes, there is more.
But I had gotten to a placewhere I was believing in myself
sufficiently enough that I wasready to move on to the next
thing.
So I got one of the little kitsso I could make the little
jewelry.
And the my next one was abracelet that said courage,
(22:26):
because now I had the beliefthat I could do it, but now I
knew I had to take action.
So I had to have some courage totake action.
And it doesn't matter what thedo it, what the it is, it it,
but I knew it needed courage.
And I wore my courage braceletfor probably, I don't know, year
or two.
Then I made a little necklace,and you can see I have one on
(22:48):
now.
It's a little, little, samelittle thing.
And the first necklace said,what did it say?
Now I've forgotten.
Maybe this was the first next.
I'm getting a little confused.
I've had so many things.
This necklace says audacity.
I wanted to be audacious in mylife.
(23:09):
I wanted to live my life boldly.
Now, maybe if you've known mefor a while, you may think, oh,
whatever, Maddox, you've alwaysbeen bold.
Okay, I'm outspoken, yes.
But bold, this was a kind ofbold that's different.
It wasn't just bold to be in asocial setting and be outspoken
(23:31):
and tell a funny joke or dosomething weird.
It was more about a bold ofputting myself out there.
It was more about being in frontof people and and being
authentic, which is kind ofrisky.
SPEAKER_01 (23:47):
I have an experience of what it was like to see you
in a context where all that Iknew of you was always being the
gracious host.
And I remember an experiencethat we had where we went to an
event that was not ours, and youwere surprisingly uh subdued.
(24:11):
You were not the same, you werenot the same Maddox that I had
known.
And I got to see a little bit ofwhy it was that you wanted to
lean into uh embracing audacitybecause you you you didn't have
the role anymore, and it's likeyou you didn't really have a
(24:31):
place.
So you it's like you took painsto be incredibly small and
quiet.
SPEAKER_00 (24:38):
You know, I have in social settings with strangers,
I have been incredibly shy mywhole life of those those
situations, a room full ofstrangers.
I'm intimidated.
It's just it's overwhelming,it's intimidating.
I for years I have gone becauseI knew I needed socialization,
(24:59):
but I would stand in a corner oragainst a wall and not talk to
anybody.
And it's taken me a lifetime.
But over the last couple ofyears, wearing my little
audacity necklace, where thatI'm reminded all the time, I'm
getting better and better andbetter.
Now I'm pretty bold when I'vegot the microphone and I'm
leading the social event,whether it's an event that we
(25:20):
hold or whether it's a littlegathering in our living room
with friends or dinner orsomething.
But yes, I've really had toreally lean into that audacity
to be able to walk into a roomfull of strangers and walk up to
somebody I don't know and say,Hi, I'm Maddox.
Who are you?
And I'm getting better at it.
I'm getting much better at it.
(25:40):
And I'm very proud of myself.
SPEAKER_01 (25:42):
I'm very proud of you too.
SPEAKER_00 (25:43):
I haven't gotten to the point of the pit stop yet
because uh there's still so I'mstill becoming that audacious
person to be bold in the placeswhere I would normally shrink
back because well, it brings upstuff from my childhood.
You know, I'm still working onresolving some, you know,
multi-decade old trauma.
(26:05):
Um, but you know, the becoming,it's just a it's a it's a big
topic and and you say more.
I'm I'm I'm rattling around.
SPEAKER_01 (26:15):
You you take it for a minute because I I've I've
well I I I just want to commendyou on how it is that you have
embraced leaning into becomingthat person that is comfortable
in any space.
Uh and invariably you you'vetalked about this before, how if
there are places where you don'tfeel safe, uh it's um you you're
(26:40):
at ultimate choice.
So you can change thatsituation.
You can you can remove yourself.
Uh I'm not I'm a big believer inhow we're all far more empowered
than um some might have us tobelieve in any situation.
And it's just a matter ofexercising that power in a way
(27:01):
that's responsible and and anduh mindful of your needs.
SPEAKER_00 (27:08):
You know, likewise the way you have watched me go
through some of my becoming, Ihave watched you go through some
of your becoming as well.
SPEAKER_01 (27:16):
Yeah.
Well, you you've gotten to seeme go through an arc of profound
grief.
And uh I I had to deal with somethings that were analogous to
how a mighty elephant is trainedto believe that a simple stake
driven into the ground can keepit held prisoner.
SPEAKER_00 (27:39):
You know, I I want to speak to that a little bit
because yes, you've talked aboutthis on previous episodes, and
people know that you lost apartner, a spouse, a husband of
20 years to a um to a diseasethat took him.
And when I met Dwight, he was inprofound grief.
(28:03):
And he tended to talk in kind ofa flat monotone voice.
There was, it was just level.
It was, you know, if it was aheart rate monitor, it didn't go
blip, blop, it went ooh likethis.
He just talked in flat monotone,he didn't get excited about
anything.
And as we began to get to knoweach other, he began to show me
(28:28):
deeper parts of himself and showme a little bit of personality.
And I can remember one day afterwe had been seeing each other
for a couple of months, maybethree months, I said to him, you
know, I wish you would show thedwight that you showed to me.
(28:48):
I wish you would show thatdwight to our friends, to my
friends that I had introducedhim to, because I said, I just
know beyond a shadow of a doubt,if you will let them see the
Dwight that you let me see, theywill all be eating out of the
palm of your hand.
And he took that to heart.
And it didn't happen overnight,and it wasn't like a flick, a
(29:11):
switch flicking.
It was very gentle at first.
He leaned in just a teeny littlebit at first, and I kept
encouraging him, and he leanedin a little bit more.
And now all of my friends justadore him, absolutely adore him.
SPEAKER_01 (29:27):
Well, and it's that's translated into a lot of
other things.
One of the one of the thingsthat you got to uh start me on a
journey toward was um, Iremember you you shared with me
some lessons that you hadlearned.
Well, you'd paid for a reallyexpensive course that is, I'd
say, a stepping stone to being aspokesmodel.
(29:51):
And uh you you shared with mesome of the some of the
exercises that you went through.
I remember having thatexperience.
Of seeing you record a video,and I was just blown away
because you you um were drivinghome this concept of being over
the top because for whateverreason in video everything is
(30:13):
just flattened.
So imagine what it's like withme who's someone who had an
incredibly flat affect.
If I was on video, then uhsomeone seeing it might have
thought that I was dead orsomeone was throwing their
voice.
SPEAKER_00 (30:31):
Yeah.
You you were a dead, uh you werea ventriloquist dead dummy.
You know, it's funny because hesaw me doing videos and he came
to me and said, Teach me how todo that.
I want to do that.
Now, so that's a form ofbecoming, but I but I want to
say that it wasn't the becomingwasn't about becoming a
(30:54):
personality on video, it wasabout becoming the person who
had all of the necessarycharacter traits to be a video
personality.
Let's see, there's a distinctionhere.
It wasn't showing up and saying,I want to become a video
spokesperson.
(31:15):
No.
So who was it, Dwight?
You are okay.
If you've not seen his videos,he is on fire.
He has become, he has surpassedme as far as being a video
spokesperson.
His videos are just friggin'amazing.
Who is it, in your own words,that you had to become to be the
(31:39):
video spokesperson that you arenow?
Because we haven't even had thisconversation.
So I don't know how he's goingto answer this, but I'm I'm
curious to know.
SPEAKER_01 (31:48):
I well, I I have a lot of avatars that I aspire to.
And uh a lot of it just has todo with a few of the things that
we helped unlock together.
I mean, one thing that's uhreally core of of who I who I am
and what I'm about, and a lot ofthe things that I share on my
video content have to do withembracing who it is that you
(32:13):
are, looking at that that personthat's inside you, maybe that
that think, that aspect of yourpersonality that you try to
obscure because of some deepwound, and being kind and
nurturing to that aspect andgetting in touch with that
wounded child, that bulliedchild, and and soothing that
(32:34):
child and saying that you yougot them.
It's okay.
And I couldn't agree more fully.
Just leaning in and taking careof that person, that beautiful
human being that you are,getting rid of all of the ways
that the outside world out of aneed to protect us tells us that
(32:56):
being a real person isn't okay.
It's it's kind of weird when I Ilook at all of the the messages
that are there.
Some of them are subtle and someof them are just right there for
you to see, where they they sayit's not okay for you to be you.
And I think that enough of usare waking up to the point where
(33:19):
we we appreciate that someoneelse's comfort is not our
responsibility.
There is a point where some ofthe rules that are in place are
actually quite harmful becausethey're they go to a place
that's mean spirited withoutwithout even knowing it in in
(33:40):
some cases.
And I'm thinking of things likeuh the reason that we have the
Crown Act.
You know, there's there was sucha pull to have Eurocentric
beauty standards applied topeople of color, you know, for
and I I think that we we've gonethrough a horrible time
(34:03):
throughout all the last centurywhere it was expected that if
you if you were black and in theUnited States, you you aspired
to look like a you know a whiteEuropean presenting person, even
if that meant using harshchemicals uh and putting
(34:24):
yourself at risk uh to toachieve that that outcome.
And that's that's just insane.
I I'm glad that we're having amoment where people can embrace
that there is beauty and nothaving everything look exactly
the same.
(34:45):
It's okay for us not to havebeen pushed through the same
cookie cutter.
SPEAKER_00 (34:50):
Yeah, I agree completely.
You know, I want to backtrackfor just a minute.
You said something so profoundabout, you know, the the inner
child.
And I, you know, I I don't wantto say that this is the way it
is because I don't know that I Ican't, I don't really can't say
I'm an expert with inner child,but I can say that I have done a
(35:10):
tremendous amount of inner childwork.
And so I'll speak from myexperience.
And my inner child, it isdifferent for every person.
My inner child is seven yearsold, and anytime I'm struggling
to do whatever it is, strugglingto walk into that room filled
with strangers, struggling to umput myself out there in some
(35:35):
way, like being a host on thispodcast or whatever, it is
always the seven-year-old thatis blocking me and preventing
that from happening because hedoesn't feel safe.
And when I can go in and workwith him and help help him
(35:58):
nurture him and help him to feelsafe, then he takes the guard
down and lets me do the thingthat I'm trying to do.
But he has the ability to blockall kinds of shit.
You know, he's he may be sevenyears old, but he's a very
powerful aspect of my being.
And he can prevent me from doingwhat I'm trying to do if he
(36:20):
thinks that there's dangerinvolved or he doesn't feel
safe.
I, you know, I wish this wassomething that we taught in in
school systems.
I wish this we we learned how tonavigate our inner child while
while we were still a child, youknow, or as soon as we got older
(36:41):
than a child.
But there you have it.
That's my thoughts on that.
SPEAKER_01 (36:46):
Well, and we we all have to deal with uh the the
cards that we're given, youknow.
Um I have a profoundappreciation for um how it is in
uh doing the work, Dr.
Nicole Lepera, and I'm probablybutchering her name, um, kind of
(37:07):
laid out how every parent isgoing to give their children uh
uh trauma of some kind.
It doesn't matter how perfectthey are.
SPEAKER_00 (37:20):
No way around it.
SPEAKER_01 (37:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (37:22):
No way around it.
SPEAKER_01 (37:24):
Exactly.
And so we we have those wounds.
And you know, it very well couldbe that if it's a situation
where every pain was taken tomake it so that uh the a child
grew up and what would be uh aperfect life and nothing went
wrong.
Well, even in doing that, you'veyou've made them too soft.
(37:46):
They're not prepared for thefirst time that life punches
them in the mouth.
You know, they they will theywould be devastated as soon as
anything goes wrong.
And they they don't have someonethat's keeping them inside that
bubble.
SPEAKER_00 (38:01):
Yeah.
Um the whole topic of becomingis very exciting to me.
And I hope it's as exciting toyou, the listener, as it is to
me.
You know, the thought that I cansit and ponder who is it that I
want to be?
Who do I want to be in thisworld and in this life?
(38:23):
And how do I want to show up?
Those are very, very excitingquestions.
And I get to have it be any wayI want it to be.
SPEAKER_01 (38:31):
Yeah.
Well, and and I think thatthere's something that's magical
about being in a place whereyou're ready to consider those
questions, because we know thatwe encounter countless people
that would be blown away evenhearing it.
Or maybe they wouldn't even hearit, no matter how clearly you
(38:52):
asked it.
SPEAKER_00 (38:53):
Oh, throughout my life, I've heard people say,
well, this just was the handthat I was dealt, that hand of
cards that I was dealt, and Ijust have to get over it.
No, you don't.
You know, you get to reinventyourself anyway and as many
times as you want.
SPEAKER_01 (39:13):
I I love that.
I love that.
You know, and it's funny as yousay that, I'm I can't help but
think of all of the the greatdivas who have made careers of
always being someone different.
You know, whether whether you'retalking Cher or Madonna or uh
Brittany or you know, they theyall get to Don different
(39:36):
personas.
And at at any at any moment,they are who they need to be.
SPEAKER_00 (39:43):
Yes, and I know there are people out there right
now that are going, yeah, butthey're celebrities, they're
famous, they're rich, all thatstuff.
Yeah, doesn't matter.
You have the ability to reinventyourself any way you want, just
the way they have done.
It isn't about money and itisn't about fame.
Maybe you reinvent yourself, andthe only people who get to see
(40:06):
that are the people you love.
SPEAKER_01 (40:08):
Right.
Well, and and some of themactually use it as a defensive
mechanism.
I I was uh really intrigued whenI I read about how Beyonce,
Beyonce is a persona, and youknow the the real person is
actually someone who ispainfully shy, incredibly
(40:29):
private, and far removed fromthat uh that stage presence that
everyone knows.
SPEAKER_00 (40:36):
Well, I've read many times that Barbara Streisand her
entire career has had cripplingstage fright.
Crippling stage fright.
And um sometimes, you know, therecord labels or the networks
that you're affiliated with, thethe people who basically own
you, dictate who your personais.
(41:00):
So celebrities aren't alwaysmaybe a good representation of
what we're talking about becauseI I know Lady Gaga at one point
publicly stated that she neverintended to be who she's become,
that that was not what she hadin mind, but the record labels
(41:20):
pushed that because they knewthat was the way that everybody
would make all the money and thefame.
SPEAKER_01 (41:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (41:28):
Um, and and and you wonder why so many uh
celebrities or drug addicts orend up committing suicide.
Uh, that is a really highpressure, you know, you're
you're becoming somethingoftentimes there that's not of
your choice.
So let's just call that out forwhat it is.
(41:49):
Um, some people, I don't know.
I I I would be willing to betMadonna and Cher have never been
pushed into too much.
That was all their own doing,probably.
But, you know, it we don't know.
We don't ever really know forsure.
SPEAKER_01 (42:04):
Yeah, well, I mean, it's kind of hard to say.
There's uh I I think of all thecachet that that Cher had, I
mean, she had her own uh bignetwork TV show and and her and
her time, and you know, she'sbeen able to call lots of shots,
but I I think that we've seenthat things have really evolved.
(42:24):
I mean, look at um how um TaylorSwift has um owned who she was.
Like she's uh had to come upthrough a system where uh we the
way the game was played, you youhad to follow their rules, and
(42:44):
you were you were owned by therecord labels, and she wanted
the intellectual property, soshe jumped through the hoops to
make sure that even if she hadto re-record all of her masters,
that's what she did, so that sheowned it.
SPEAKER_00 (43:02):
Yep, yep.
There is an example of somebodywho decided that who they wanted
to be and didn't let anybodytell them they couldn't be that.
She is she does exactly whatwhat she wants to do when she
wants to do it, doesn't answerto anybody.
There's been lots written aboutthat, but yeah.
Well, I think we've probablylaid the groundwork today, and
(43:27):
to to talk on any further wouldbe rambling.
So let let's let's wrap it up.
Um, you have any words of wisdomor anything you want to say as a
as a final note?
SPEAKER_01 (43:39):
The only thing that that I have to say is that we
need to be able to have somekindness when it comes to how it
is that we've gotten to where weare and realize that we're not
limited by the box that otherswant to put us in.
If there is a dream, if there issome other capacity that you
(44:03):
wish to fulfill, ask what youneed to do to take that next
step to get there.
And if you commit to it, if youput in the work, you will.
SPEAKER_00 (44:15):
Yes, you will.
And that that leaves me with,and I can't take credit for
this, and I don't know who saidthis, but it's brilliant.
And that is what got you herewon't get you there.
And to to unpack that, you know,who you are currently got you to
where you are currently.
And to get to where you want tobe in the future, you can't get
(44:39):
there being who you've been.
You have to figure out who youwho you need to be to get to
that next stage of evolution andgrowth.
Um yeah, I had a tr somethingthat just came to me and I'm and
it may be gone before I can comeup with it, but um yeah, it's
(45:03):
gone.
It's gone.
SPEAKER_01 (45:05):
We'll write it down later and save it for another
time.
SPEAKER_00 (45:09):
Absolutely.
Yep.
You're gonna be hearing a littlebit more about this, a lot more
about this, actually, because wejust really think that this is
as creatives, this is for everyhuman being, but as creatives,
this is really on target for us.
So there's gonna be a big focusin everything that we do that is
(45:30):
about becoming.
Thanks for listening today.
We love you.
We will support you in any waywe can, and we will see you in
the next episode.
See you next time.
What got you here won't get you there.
And to unpack that, you know,who you are currently got you to
where you are currently.
And to get to where you want tobe in the future, you can't get
there being who you've been.
You have to figure out who youwho you need to be to get to
(00:32):
that next stage of evolution andgrowth.
Hello, hello.
It's Maddox and Dwight, andyou're listening to for the Love
of Creatives podcast.
(00:54):
So today is an unusual episodethat we're recording, and we're
actually pretty excited aboutit.
Today, as you can tell, we don'thave a guest.
It's just going to be the two ofus.
So we have been doing someresearch.
We have um been gaining somefeedback from some of our fans
(01:15):
and listeners, you guys.
And we have made the decision toadd um a component, a new
component to the podcast and toour platform.
So as you've probably heard overepisodes, if you've listened or
you've read some of the thingsthat we do on social media, we
always say that for the love ofcreatives podcast is about the
(01:38):
intersection of creativity andcommunity.
And today we're going to give,we realized that it was a stool
with only two legs.
So today we're going to give thestool a third leg.
And that third leg is becoming.
So we're we're looking atcreativity, community, and
(02:02):
becoming.
And Dwight and I are going tobat that back and forth a little
bit today.
You're getting to see kind ofbehind the scenes real time
because we haven't fleshed thisall out.
We've had a few thoughts aboutit and really realize this is
the direction we want to go, butyou're going to get to see it
happen real time.
(02:23):
So let's jump in.
And uh Dwight, why don't whydon't you share your some of
your vision first and what'sgoing, what's rolling around in
that beautiful brain of yours?
SPEAKER_01 (02:34):
Well, we've had an opportunity to have a lot of
people weigh in about this.
And we've even had some gueststhat have shared some important
insights.
I mean, I I remember in ourconversation with Mark Russell
Jones, he talked a lot about howit is that we come into the
(02:54):
world fully formed.
And uh he was quoting uh HermanHess uh on that theory.
And to me, that resonated agreat deal with what I'd read in
Robert Green's mastery about howthere are so many forces that
make it so that we lose touchwith what it is that that's
(03:17):
really who we are and who we'remeant to be.
Um similar thing with uh PatrickWilliams, you know, his whole
concept of uh having a situationwhere we have uh creative
collapse or creativecolonization.
It's the the same concept.
And I I can see that there's alot of truth and beauty in that.
(03:40):
And I think that we can allrelate to what it is to have our
true essence uh beaten out of usor shamed or uh you know, we're
we're made to conform toexpectations.
And I think a lot of becoming isrecovering from the trauma of
being told that how you're notright, how you don't fit what it
(04:02):
is that's expected.
SPEAKER_00 (04:05):
Yes.
And and while I think becomingis not necessarily like a brand
new topic, I mean, MichelleObama wrote a book entitled
Becoming Here just a few shortyears ago.
I think that it's new enoughthat there's a still a freshness
about it and there's a lot toexplore.
And I think that there's a lotof people that, you know, maybe
(04:26):
even going right now, okay,becoming what what exactly are
you talking about?
And so we're gonna kind ofunpack that, but we also want to
say that we are we are there.
Dwight and I are both in a aplace of becoming right now.
This is um this is a topic and away of being and a part of our
(04:51):
growth process that we've beenaware of for a while, but it was
kind of unconscious.
We were we were we were workingon becoming, but we may not have
necessarily had the language forit that we have now.
Um, I know one of the thingsthat is coming up for me is that
(05:12):
I'm realizing that we are alwaysin a state of becoming.
As human beings, we are alwaysin a state of becoming.
But there's two ways that showsup.
One is unconsciously, and theother one is consciously.
SPEAKER_01 (05:28):
Oh, I'd say there's more than two.
Um, there's uh an ancient bit ofwisdom that's told uh basically
as we never step into the sameriver twice.
And if you unpack that, it'stalking about more than just
something that would come up ona hiking trip.
(05:49):
We are forever going to bedifferent.
We will never be the exact sameperson that we are, no matter
how you look at it.
SPEAKER_00 (06:00):
Always changing, always evolving, sometimes
consciously and sometimesunconsciously.
You know, I can look back andrealize a lot of the
unconscious, you know, and whenyou're when you're becoming
something unconsciously, it maynot be something you want to
become.
Yeah.
And that's where the you know,bringing it into conscious
(06:21):
awareness is such a big thing.
Um, for me, it's very, verypowerful.
Once I became aware, you know,and and and I know that this may
be so, but what I'm about to saymay raise some eyebrows.
You may say, I don't, well, Idon't believe that.
And that's okay if you don'tbelieve that.
I believe it with all my heart.
And and that is we we as humanbeings also get to choose who it
(06:48):
is that we want to become.
You know, there's this, youknow, come back to home,
discover who you've always been,and and there's value in that,
and I get that, but there'ssomething missing there for me.
I don't know that I want to justfind and discover the person
(07:08):
I've always been, because I'mnot as exactly sure what that
is.
But when you say, who do youwant to become?
Now I'm not, you know, there's adifference between who do you
want to become and what do youwant to become?
Right.
You know, who do you what do youwant to be?
What do you want to be when yougrow up?
(07:29):
A fireman, an astronaut, allthose things.
That's not what we're talkingabout here.
Um, I think that who you want tobecome comes first before you
can really decide what do youwant to become.
They play, they they interplaytogether, but it's hard to know
what you want to become when youdon't know who you want to
(07:51):
become.
SPEAKER_01 (07:53):
Right.
And I think that there are a lotof things that serve people
looking for the quick fix.
They want to productize it andmake it so that, oh, I've got an
itch that I want to scratch, andsomeone wants to sell me on
something that's just going toget me from A to B.
Well, for some people, thatmight be all that they're
prepared to embrace, but there'salways a lot more.
(08:17):
There's something moreunsettling that's causing that
discomfort than that thing thatyou're immediately aware of.
And until you're willing toconfront the those things that
are the source of the traumas,the things that are causing the
real discomfort, there's alwaysgoing to be uh an emptiness that
you're trying to fill.
SPEAKER_00 (08:38):
I I I think you're I think you're spot on.
I think we linger sometimes inthe surface.
And what where we really findour answers is is in the deeper
place.
You know, uh we talk about thisin manifesting.
And, you know, when you say,gee, I want to have this
high-powered job or I want tomake a million dollars.
(09:00):
That's never the end game.
So what would it, what would itmean to you if you had that
high-powered job?
What would be possible?
Right.
And and we don't ask, ask thosehard questions.
SPEAKER_01 (09:11):
Um, and and I think that's the the trap that we're
we're pushed into for anythingthat makes it so that people
say, well, I will be happy if,or I'll be happy when.
And it should not, yourhappiness should not be
something that's based on anexternal variable.
SPEAKER_00 (09:34):
Exactly.
And and this is it, you justlaid the perfect energy for the
segue, which is, you know, wethink when I get there, I'll be
happy.
And it doesn't matter whetheryou're talking about getting
that million dollars or thathigh-powered job or that new
car, or whether you're becomingsomething that you truly wanted
(09:56):
to become, we don't ever reallyarrive.
There's no, there's nodestination.
You get that.
I mean, how many times have yousaid, Oh, I want a new car?
And you got that new car, andfor about a week or two, you
were really excited, andeverything was like, Oh my God,
I've arrived.
And then next thing you know,you're focused on something else
(10:20):
you want.
It's like, that's why I saythere's it's not a destination,
it's a pit stop.
Yes, if you made thisdeclaration about who you wanted
to be, you know, I I I wasmeditating this morning, and um
one of the it's a guidedmeditation, and one of the
(10:41):
pieces of guided meditation isto think about somebody that you
truly love, and and then youknow, see that love as a color
and let your heart fill withthat colored energy of that
person you love.
And then you expand it out toyour your bedroom, your home,
(11:02):
your neighborhood, your city,your country, and the globe.
And it's this beautifulmeditation, it's about expanding
love.
But and I've listened to thismeditation on and off for a
number of years, but in the lastfew weeks, there have been many
times when he said, think aboutsomebody you truly love.
(11:23):
And the face that came into mymind was my own.
And I realized how I for somewell, for a number of years now,
I set a goal that my the thing Iwanted to become, the person
that I wanted to become, wassomebody that truly loved
(11:45):
himself.
So it's not about things, thisbecoming thing is I don't want
to, it's not about becoming theCEO.
It it's about something so muchmore deeper and more profound
than that.
I wanted to become the personwho truly loves himself.
(12:06):
And now when he says, think ofsomebody you truly love, and my
face pops into my own mind.
I get this, okay.
I'm I'm laying in this in bedmeditating, and I my eyes are
closed, and all of a sudden Iget this huge, shitty, eating
grin on my face because it's soamazing to think about my own
(12:26):
face coming into my mind.
And that's something that I'vebeen becoming.
Now, will I ever fully arrivethere?
Perhaps not.
Maybe I'll hit a pit stop.
You know, right now the pit stopis woo-hoo! My face is coming
into my mind when I when Imeditate and hear that.
(12:47):
But becoming is it's not acircle, it's a spiral.
unknown (12:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:52):
You know, you it's like a spiral staircase.
You come back around whereyou're in the same position, but
you're one floor higher.
SPEAKER_01 (13:03):
Your perspective is different.
SPEAKER_00 (13:05):
So, you know, if and I'll I'll demonstrate this.
If you've ever thought, wow,wow, I'm so glad I finally
learned that lesson.
That was a really hard lesson tolearn.
I don't have to do that anymore.
And then a few months down theroad, here you were in that
lesson again, and you're going,What the fuck happened?
I thought I had this lessoncompletely down.
I thought I learned it.
(13:27):
Well, the truth is you learnedit on the first floor level.
Now you've gone around thatspiral staircase and you're on
the second floor now, and you'regetting that lesson on a higher
level.
And this is something thatinstead of being like, I can't
go through this again, we shouldbe grateful.
We should go, oh my God, I'mgetting to learn this on a
(13:49):
deeper level now.
And this is gonna help me inevery aspect of my beingness and
my life.
SPEAKER_01 (13:56):
And you know, there's something about that
contentment that gives you agreater appreciation and the
ability to focus.
Whereas if you're just trying togo after that next carrot, you
go after that that next thingthat's supposed to be what
you're after, there there'ssomething empty inside.
(14:18):
You're you're not able to fullyembrace those those lessons that
you should have gotten before.
You know, there is and I thinkthat we see these lessons um
delivered in ways that I thatare um palatable for for where
we are to hear it.
(14:39):
Uh I know that in uh a lot ofcovey's work, there's um or
there's the the story of AbrahamLincoln, you know, when asked if
he had four hours to complete atask, how exactly would he go
about it, you know, to cut downthe tree?
And he would spend the majorityof that time sharpening the saw.
(15:02):
And if you unpack what what'sbeing said there, you know,
that's when you're sharpeningthe saw, just the act itself is
meditative in that it's it'srepetitive.
It's seems to have nothing to dowith the the intended outcome of
having a tree cut down.
(15:23):
But it's because you you takethe the time to spend the effort
that you're able to, in the end,have the most impact with the
effort.
You know, the same the same istrue in um the in Sun Tzu's um
the the whole concept of um theart of war.
(15:46):
The majority of what what'sbeing talked about in that is a
way of relating, a way of being,so that to be the baddest
warrior on the battlefield, youare setting yourself you're
you're setting yourself up sothat you will never have to pull
(16:06):
your sword.
That's ultimately your goal.
You want to ascend to a statewhere even though you will have
had the hard skills, you're notgoing to put yourself in harm's
way.
You're not going tounnecessarily put yourself at
risk because you're putting inplace all of the things to make
(16:27):
it so that uh if there'ssomething that's uh increasing
your risk, you have acontingency plan.
Uh and the whole thing, thewhole concept of becoming is
ascending to a state mentally,spiritually, where instead of
(16:49):
being drawn to the next shinything that's pulling you in a
direction, you can have thatmoment of pause, that moment of
quiet, where you can evaluate ifit's something that really
serves you, if it's reallysomething that allows you to
better serve others.
And that's that's not aconversation that that everyone
(17:11):
is ready to have.
SPEAKER_00 (17:13):
Yeah, you call that out.
I agree completely.
You know, back to your storywith Abraham Lincoln, because in
that moment, and I'd heard thatstory before, I hadn't thought
of it in a long time, but whatcame up for me, and it relates
to what I'm doing right now as apainter, I'm painting.
(17:34):
And I find that when I ampainting, sharpening the saw,
um, it is incredibly meditative.
The whole world goes away andall that exists are is the
brush, the paint, and thecanvas, or whatever other tool
or medium I'm using.
It's just, it's right there.
But I've noticed that in thatspace, you know, when you're
(17:57):
when Abraham Lincoln wassharpening the saw, that doesn't
take a lot of brain power.
You know, you you get the thestroke in motion and you just
work back and forth, and there'sthis stillness like meditation,
where then whatever higher poweryou believe in, because that's
where all creation comes from,you know, and it it, you know, I
(18:21):
always like to say, I callmyself a creative, we're all
creatives, but truthfully, whatwe are is we're the conduit.
It is creativity coming from theuniverse through us.
It's not coming from us.
Otherwise, it would get stalereally, really fast.
(18:43):
I mean, that's why there'salways these new ideas, because
those new ideas are coming fromsomeplace greater than us.
And in that stillness, whenyou're sharpening that saw, is
when it's like the most fertilesoil for those little seeds to
sprout and the ideas and thecreativity to come.
(19:03):
Um, I let's bring it home for aminute and let's really focus
on, you know, this being, thebecoming part of it for
creatives, because that's whatwe are here.
We're creatives.
And we all want to be the bestcreative we can be.
That that's a given.
You know, nobody wakes up in themorning and says, today I think
I'll be a shitty creative.
(19:24):
We just don't do that.
So we all have this unspoken,perhaps universal goal that we
want to be the best creative wecan be.
And I believe that's wherebecoming comes in.
When we can step into thisquestion of this space of
exploration and the unknown andcuriosity, and say, well, who is
(19:51):
it that I want to become?
And what would be possible forme if I became that person?
There's a lot of questionsaround this, you know.
What has become possible for meas I have leaned farther into
self-love.
Well, we don't have enough timefor me to tell you all that, but
(20:11):
it's been a lot.
A lot.
Um, you know, and another takeon becoming in um early 2020, I
went to Mind Valley Live, whichis a personal growth
organization.
If you haven't heard from it,just um search mindvalley.com
(20:35):
and you'll find it.
It's the largest provider ofonline education on the globe.
And I went to one of their liveevents in uh LA.
And they had asked eachparticipant, there was a over a
thousand people there, they'dask each participant to decide,
(20:57):
uh uh, like they wanted us togive them a word.
What is a word, something thatyou're wanting to lean into,
something that has meaning foryou?
We also call it intention words,and this is kind of a thing that
we're all maybe a littlefamiliar with this.
So I chose the word believe,because at that moment in my
(21:18):
life, I knew that there might beall kinds of amazing things
possible for me if I could stepinto a greater belief in myself.
Well, when I got to theconference in LA at the
registration table, they had alittle gift for me.
And it was, it was a littlebracelet like the one I have on
(21:38):
here.
It's a little washer with alittle cord, and engraved in the
washer was the word believe.
And I wore that bracelet forprobably three years.
It meant so much to me.
It was my daily reminder.
I couldn't, I couldn't look inthe mirror, I couldn't look down
without seeing that littleengraved word believe.
(22:02):
And there was a point where Ireally felt like, wow, is there
more?
Yes, there is more.
But I had gotten to a placewhere I was believing in myself
sufficiently enough that I wasready to move on to the next
thing.
So I got one of the little kitsso I could make the little
jewelry.
And the my next one was abracelet that said courage,
(22:26):
because now I had the beliefthat I could do it, but now I
knew I had to take action.
So I had to have some courage totake action.
And it doesn't matter what thedo it, what the it is, it it,
but I knew it needed courage.
And I wore my courage braceletfor probably, I don't know, year
or two.
Then I made a little necklace,and you can see I have one on
(22:48):
now.
It's a little, little, samelittle thing.
And the first necklace said,what did it say?
Now I've forgotten.
Maybe this was the first next.
I'm getting a little confused.
I've had so many things.
This necklace says audacity.
I wanted to be audacious in mylife.
(23:09):
I wanted to live my life boldly.
Now, maybe if you've known mefor a while, you may think, oh,
whatever, Maddox, you've alwaysbeen bold.
Okay, I'm outspoken, yes.
But bold, this was a kind ofbold that's different.
It wasn't just bold to be in asocial setting and be outspoken
(23:31):
and tell a funny joke or dosomething weird.
It was more about a bold ofputting myself out there.
It was more about being in frontof people and and being
authentic, which is kind ofrisky.
SPEAKER_01 (23:47):
I have an experience of what it was like to see you
in a context where all that Iknew of you was always being the
gracious host.
And I remember an experiencethat we had where we went to an
event that was not ours, and youwere surprisingly uh subdued.
(24:11):
You were not the same, you werenot the same Maddox that I had
known.
And I got to see a little bit ofwhy it was that you wanted to
lean into uh embracing audacitybecause you you you didn't have
the role anymore, and it's likeyou you didn't really have a
(24:31):
place.
So you it's like you took painsto be incredibly small and
quiet.
SPEAKER_00 (24:38):
You know, I have in social settings with strangers,
I have been incredibly shy mywhole life of those those
situations, a room full ofstrangers.
I'm intimidated.
It's just it's overwhelming,it's intimidating.
I for years I have gone becauseI knew I needed socialization,
(24:59):
but I would stand in a corner oragainst a wall and not talk to
anybody.
And it's taken me a lifetime.
But over the last couple ofyears, wearing my little
audacity necklace, where thatI'm reminded all the time, I'm
getting better and better andbetter.
Now I'm pretty bold when I'vegot the microphone and I'm
leading the social event,whether it's an event that we
(25:20):
hold or whether it's a littlegathering in our living room
with friends or dinner orsomething.
But yes, I've really had toreally lean into that audacity
to be able to walk into a roomfull of strangers and walk up to
somebody I don't know and say,Hi, I'm Maddox.
Who are you?
And I'm getting better at it.
I'm getting much better at it.
(25:40):
And I'm very proud of myself.
SPEAKER_01 (25:42):
I'm very proud of you too.
SPEAKER_00 (25:43):
I haven't gotten to the point of the pit stop yet
because uh there's still so I'mstill becoming that audacious
person to be bold in the placeswhere I would normally shrink
back because well, it brings upstuff from my childhood.
You know, I'm still working onresolving some, you know,
multi-decade old trauma.
(26:05):
Um, but you know, the becoming,it's just a it's a it's a big
topic and and you say more.
I'm I'm I'm rattling around.
SPEAKER_01 (26:15):
You you take it for a minute because I I've I've
well I I I just want to commendyou on how it is that you have
embraced leaning into becomingthat person that is comfortable
in any space.
Uh and invariably you you'vetalked about this before, how if
there are places where you don'tfeel safe, uh it's um you you're
(26:40):
at ultimate choice.
So you can change thatsituation.
You can you can remove yourself.
Uh I'm not I'm a big believer inhow we're all far more empowered
than um some might have us tobelieve in any situation.
And it's just a matter ofexercising that power in a way
(27:01):
that's responsible and and anduh mindful of your needs.
SPEAKER_00 (27:08):
You know, likewise the way you have watched me go
through some of my becoming, Ihave watched you go through some
of your becoming as well.
SPEAKER_01 (27:16):
Yeah.
Well, you you've gotten to seeme go through an arc of profound
grief.
And uh I I had to deal with somethings that were analogous to
how a mighty elephant is trainedto believe that a simple stake
driven into the ground can keepit held prisoner.
SPEAKER_00 (27:39):
You know, I I want to speak to that a little bit
because yes, you've talked aboutthis on previous episodes, and
people know that you lost apartner, a spouse, a husband of
20 years to a um to a diseasethat took him.
And when I met Dwight, he was inprofound grief.
(28:03):
And he tended to talk in kind ofa flat monotone voice.
There was, it was just level.
It was, you know, if it was aheart rate monitor, it didn't go
blip, blop, it went ooh likethis.
He just talked in flat monotone,he didn't get excited about
anything.
And as we began to get to knoweach other, he began to show me
(28:28):
deeper parts of himself and showme a little bit of personality.
And I can remember one day afterwe had been seeing each other
for a couple of months, maybethree months, I said to him, you
know, I wish you would show thedwight that you showed to me.
(28:48):
I wish you would show thatdwight to our friends, to my
friends that I had introducedhim to, because I said, I just
know beyond a shadow of a doubt,if you will let them see the
Dwight that you let me see, theywill all be eating out of the
palm of your hand.
And he took that to heart.
And it didn't happen overnight,and it wasn't like a flick, a
(29:11):
switch flicking.
It was very gentle at first.
He leaned in just a teeny littlebit at first, and I kept
encouraging him, and he leanedin a little bit more.
And now all of my friends justadore him, absolutely adore him.
SPEAKER_01 (29:27):
Well, and it's that's translated into a lot of
other things.
One of the one of the thingsthat you got to uh start me on a
journey toward was um, Iremember you you shared with me
some lessons that you hadlearned.
Well, you'd paid for a reallyexpensive course that is, I'd
say, a stepping stone to being aspokesmodel.
(29:51):
And uh you you shared with mesome of the some of the
exercises that you went through.
I remember having thatexperience.
Of seeing you record a video,and I was just blown away
because you you um were drivinghome this concept of being over
the top because for whateverreason in video everything is
(30:13):
just flattened.
So imagine what it's like withme who's someone who had an
incredibly flat affect.
If I was on video, then uhsomeone seeing it might have
thought that I was dead orsomeone was throwing their
voice.
SPEAKER_00 (30:31):
Yeah.
You you were a dead, uh you werea ventriloquist dead dummy.
You know, it's funny because hesaw me doing videos and he came
to me and said, Teach me how todo that.
I want to do that.
Now, so that's a form ofbecoming, but I but I want to
say that it wasn't the becomingwasn't about becoming a
(30:54):
personality on video, it wasabout becoming the person who
had all of the necessarycharacter traits to be a video
personality.
Let's see, there's a distinctionhere.
It wasn't showing up and saying,I want to become a video
spokesperson.
(31:15):
No.
So who was it, Dwight?
You are okay.
If you've not seen his videos,he is on fire.
He has become, he has surpassedme as far as being a video
spokesperson.
His videos are just friggin'amazing.
Who is it, in your own words,that you had to become to be the
(31:39):
video spokesperson that you arenow?
Because we haven't even had thisconversation.
So I don't know how he's goingto answer this, but I'm I'm
curious to know.
SPEAKER_01 (31:48):
I well, I I have a lot of avatars that I aspire to.
And uh a lot of it just has todo with a few of the things that
we helped unlock together.
I mean, one thing that's uhreally core of of who I who I am
and what I'm about, and a lot ofthe things that I share on my
video content have to do withembracing who it is that you
(32:13):
are, looking at that that personthat's inside you, maybe that
that think, that aspect of yourpersonality that you try to
obscure because of some deepwound, and being kind and
nurturing to that aspect andgetting in touch with that
wounded child, that bulliedchild, and and soothing that
(32:34):
child and saying that you yougot them.
It's okay.
And I couldn't agree more fully.
Just leaning in and taking careof that person, that beautiful
human being that you are,getting rid of all of the ways
that the outside world out of aneed to protect us tells us that
(32:56):
being a real person isn't okay.
It's it's kind of weird when I Ilook at all of the the messages
that are there.
Some of them are subtle and someof them are just right there for
you to see, where they they sayit's not okay for you to be you.
And I think that enough of usare waking up to the point where
(33:19):
we we appreciate that someoneelse's comfort is not our
responsibility.
There is a point where some ofthe rules that are in place are
actually quite harmful becausethey're they go to a place
that's mean spirited withoutwithout even knowing it in in
(33:40):
some cases.
And I'm thinking of things likeuh the reason that we have the
Crown Act.
You know, there's there was sucha pull to have Eurocentric
beauty standards applied topeople of color, you know, for
and I I think that we we've gonethrough a horrible time
(34:03):
throughout all the last centurywhere it was expected that if
you if you were black and in theUnited States, you you aspired
to look like a you know a whiteEuropean presenting person, even
if that meant using harshchemicals uh and putting
(34:24):
yourself at risk uh to toachieve that that outcome.
And that's that's just insane.
I I'm glad that we're having amoment where people can embrace
that there is beauty and nothaving everything look exactly
the same.
(34:45):
It's okay for us not to havebeen pushed through the same
cookie cutter.
SPEAKER_00 (34:50):
Yeah, I agree completely.
You know, I want to backtrackfor just a minute.
You said something so profoundabout, you know, the the inner
child.
And I, you know, I I don't wantto say that this is the way it
is because I don't know that I Ican't, I don't really can't say
I'm an expert with inner child,but I can say that I have done a
(35:10):
tremendous amount of inner childwork.
And so I'll speak from myexperience.
And my inner child, it isdifferent for every person.
My inner child is seven yearsold, and anytime I'm struggling
to do whatever it is, strugglingto walk into that room filled
with strangers, struggling to umput myself out there in some
(35:35):
way, like being a host on thispodcast or whatever, it is
always the seven-year-old thatis blocking me and preventing
that from happening because hedoesn't feel safe.
And when I can go in and workwith him and help help him
(35:58):
nurture him and help him to feelsafe, then he takes the guard
down and lets me do the thingthat I'm trying to do.
But he has the ability to blockall kinds of shit.
You know, he's he may be sevenyears old, but he's a very
powerful aspect of my being.
And he can prevent me from doingwhat I'm trying to do if he
(36:20):
thinks that there's dangerinvolved or he doesn't feel
safe.
I, you know, I wish this wassomething that we taught in in
school systems.
I wish this we we learned how tonavigate our inner child while
while we were still a child, youknow, or as soon as we got older
(36:41):
than a child.
But there you have it.
That's my thoughts on that.
SPEAKER_01 (36:46):
Well, and we we all have to deal with uh the the
cards that we're given, youknow.
Um I have a profoundappreciation for um how it is in
uh doing the work, Dr.
Nicole Lepera, and I'm probablybutchering her name, um, kind of
(37:07):
laid out how every parent isgoing to give their children uh
uh trauma of some kind.
It doesn't matter how perfectthey are.
SPEAKER_00 (37:20):
No way around it.
SPEAKER_01 (37:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (37:22):
No way around it.
SPEAKER_01 (37:24):
Exactly.
And so we we have those wounds.
And you know, it very well couldbe that if it's a situation
where every pain was taken tomake it so that uh the a child
grew up and what would be uh aperfect life and nothing went
wrong.
Well, even in doing that, you'veyou've made them too soft.
(37:46):
They're not prepared for thefirst time that life punches
them in the mouth.
You know, they they will theywould be devastated as soon as
anything goes wrong.
And they they don't have someonethat's keeping them inside that
bubble.
SPEAKER_00 (38:01):
Yeah.
Um the whole topic of becomingis very exciting to me.
And I hope it's as exciting toyou, the listener, as it is to
me.
You know, the thought that I cansit and ponder who is it that I
want to be?
Who do I want to be in thisworld and in this life?
(38:23):
And how do I want to show up?
Those are very, very excitingquestions.
And I get to have it be any wayI want it to be.
SPEAKER_01 (38:31):
Yeah.
Well, and and I think thatthere's something that's magical
about being in a place whereyou're ready to consider those
questions, because we know thatwe encounter countless people
that would be blown away evenhearing it.
Or maybe they wouldn't even hearit, no matter how clearly you
(38:52):
asked it.
SPEAKER_00 (38:53):
Oh, throughout my life, I've heard people say,
well, this just was the handthat I was dealt, that hand of
cards that I was dealt, and Ijust have to get over it.
No, you don't.
You know, you get to reinventyourself anyway and as many
times as you want.
SPEAKER_01 (39:13):
I I love that.
I love that.
You know, and it's funny as yousay that, I'm I can't help but
think of all of the the greatdivas who have made careers of
always being someone different.
You know, whether whether you'retalking Cher or Madonna or uh
Brittany or you know, they theyall get to Don different
(39:36):
personas.
And at at any at any moment,they are who they need to be.
SPEAKER_00 (39:43):
Yes, and I know there are people out there right
now that are going, yeah, butthey're celebrities, they're
famous, they're rich, all thatstuff.
Yeah, doesn't matter.
You have the ability to reinventyourself any way you want, just
the way they have done.
It isn't about money and itisn't about fame.
Maybe you reinvent yourself, andthe only people who get to see
(40:06):
that are the people you love.
SPEAKER_01 (40:08):
Right.
Well, and and some of themactually use it as a defensive
mechanism.
I I was uh really intrigued whenI I read about how Beyonce,
Beyonce is a persona, and youknow the the real person is
actually someone who ispainfully shy, incredibly
(40:29):
private, and far removed fromthat uh that stage presence that
everyone knows.
SPEAKER_00 (40:36):
Well, I've read many times that Barbara Streisand her
entire career has had cripplingstage fright.
Crippling stage fright.
And um sometimes, you know, therecord labels or the networks
that you're affiliated with, thethe people who basically own
you, dictate who your personais.
(41:00):
So celebrities aren't alwaysmaybe a good representation of
what we're talking about becauseI I know Lady Gaga at one point
publicly stated that she neverintended to be who she's become,
that that was not what she hadin mind, but the record labels
(41:20):
pushed that because they knewthat was the way that everybody
would make all the money and thefame.
SPEAKER_01 (41:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (41:28):
Um, and and and you wonder why so many uh
celebrities or drug addicts orend up committing suicide.
Uh, that is a really highpressure, you know, you're
you're becoming somethingoftentimes there that's not of
your choice.
So let's just call that out forwhat it is.
(41:49):
Um, some people, I don't know.
I I I would be willing to betMadonna and Cher have never been
pushed into too much.
That was all their own doing,probably.
But, you know, it we don't know.
We don't ever really know forsure.
SPEAKER_01 (42:04):
Yeah, well, I mean, it's kind of hard to say.
There's uh I I think of all thecachet that that Cher had, I
mean, she had her own uh bignetwork TV show and and her and
her time, and you know, she'sbeen able to call lots of shots,
but I I think that we've seenthat things have really evolved.
(42:24):
I mean, look at um how um TaylorSwift has um owned who she was.
Like she's uh had to come upthrough a system where uh we the
way the game was played, you youhad to follow their rules, and
(42:44):
you were you were owned by therecord labels, and she wanted
the intellectual property, soshe jumped through the hoops to
make sure that even if she hadto re-record all of her masters,
that's what she did, so that sheowned it.
SPEAKER_00 (43:02):
Yep, yep.
There is an example of somebodywho decided that who they wanted
to be and didn't let anybodytell them they couldn't be that.
She is she does exactly whatwhat she wants to do when she
wants to do it, doesn't answerto anybody.
There's been lots written aboutthat, but yeah.
Well, I think we've probablylaid the groundwork today, and
(43:27):
to to talk on any further wouldbe rambling.
So let let's let's wrap it up.
Um, you have any words of wisdomor anything you want to say as a
as a final note?
SPEAKER_01 (43:39):
The only thing that that I have to say is that we
need to be able to have somekindness when it comes to how it
is that we've gotten to where weare and realize that we're not
limited by the box that otherswant to put us in.
If there is a dream, if there issome other capacity that you
(44:03):
wish to fulfill, ask what youneed to do to take that next
step to get there.
And if you commit to it, if youput in the work, you will.
SPEAKER_00 (44:15):
Yes, you will.
And that that leaves me with,and I can't take credit for
this, and I don't know who saidthis, but it's brilliant.
And that is what got you herewon't get you there.
And to to unpack that, you know,who you are currently got you to
where you are currently.
And to get to where you want tobe in the future, you can't get
(44:39):
there being who you've been.
You have to figure out who youwho you need to be to get to
that next stage of evolution andgrowth.
Um yeah, I had a tr somethingthat just came to me and I'm and
it may be gone before I can comeup with it, but um yeah, it's
(45:03):
gone.
It's gone.
SPEAKER_01 (45:05):
We'll write it down later and save it for another
time.
SPEAKER_00 (45:09):
Absolutely.
Yep.
You're gonna be hearing a littlebit more about this, a lot more
about this, actually, because wejust really think that this is
as creatives, this is for everyhuman being, but as creatives,
this is really on target for us.
So there's gonna be a big focusin everything that we do that is
(45:30):
about becoming.
Thanks for listening today.
We love you.
We will support you in any waywe can, and we will see you in
the next episode.
See you next time.
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