November 3, 2025 • 62 mins
What if your creative practice wasn’t a side note, but the reason you get out of bed? We sit down with Hara Allison—graphic designer, photographer, and founder of Dream Studio—whose mantra “make love and make art” is both a rallying cry and a roadmap. She talks candidly about living with incurable cancer, why she declined more chemo after it stole a year, and how choosing creativity brought her back to herself.
Hara opens up about trauma, responsibility, and the moment she began to parent the “little Hara” within. We dive into mirror work, inner child care, and the practical ways self compassion turns down the volume on perfectionism. From there, we trace her return to photography: a 60-day self-portrait lighting experiment that transformed fear into freedom. If you’ve ever felt intimidated by gear or technique, you’ll love her “lighting made simple” philosophy and the reminder that play beats pressure.
Community sits at the heart of Hara’s work. We explore the real challenges of getting people to show up, the difference between holding space and being a safe space, and why collaboration outlasts competition. Along the way, we talk body image myths, the trap of social media highlight reels, and the clarity that comes from facing mortality with peace. The result is an episode that feels like a breath: grounded, generous, and brimming with creative courage.
Press play to reconnect with your why, remember your worth, and rediscover the joy of making. If this moved you, subscribe, share with a friend who needs it, and leave a review so more creatives can find the conversation.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_03 (00:34):
Um I mean, I'm not actively dying, but I do have
incurable cancer, and I havechosen not to do chemo again
because it kind of stole a yearfrom me.
And with incurable cancer, it'lljust be like, that doesn't sound
like a good idea to do it againand again and again and again.
Lose years when I could, I'malready 57, I only have so many
(00:56):
left.
So I'm just gonna live out loudand and make art.
This is what I wrote the otherday.
I had a I had the creativemeetup here, and we had to write
our dreams up on the board.
And all I wrote was make loveand make art.
So if I die doing those twothings, I'll be good.
I have had the love of my life.
(01:17):
I have the love of my life.
I am so lucky.
I was miserably miserable inlove for 45 years, and then I
met my husband.
SPEAKER_01 (01:38):
Hello, it's Maddox and Dwight, and you're listening
to another episode of For theLove of Creatives podcast.
Welcome, and today our guest isHara Allison.
Welcome, Hara.
SPEAKER_03 (01:52):
Thank you.
Hello, I'm Hara Allison, and Iam a graphic designer for 30
some years and a photographer,and I also own a photography
studio that is kind of a dreamcome true.
It's pretty great in here.
SPEAKER_01 (02:10):
Well, and isn't it called Dream Studio?
SPEAKER_03 (02:13):
It's called Dream Studio, but I wanted to call it
Impossible Dream, but had alittle negative.
But do you know from Man of LaMancha, The Impossible Dream?
SPEAKER_02 (02:22):
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (02:23):
Well, Don Quixote's my guy.
I've loved that.
I have Dulcinea and TheImpossible Dream tattooed on me.
I just, I really um I love thatstory.
The more I know it, the more Iget out of it.
Anyway, Impossible Dream isreally where it came from, but
Dream Studio seemed more upbeat.
(02:43):
But I do think we all fight theimpossible dream.
SPEAKER_01 (02:47):
Yes, we do.
We absolutely do.
Well, just to let our listenersknow, um, Hara and I have known
each other for I don't know,probably maybe four years.
Um if I remember correctly, Ifound your podcast on I guess it
was probably Apple ApplePodcasts and started listening.
(03:12):
And I think I reached out to youand said I think somebody
recommended you.
SPEAKER_03 (03:20):
Oh Tevi?
Do you know Tebby?
SPEAKER_04 (03:24):
That doesn't really matter.
SPEAKER_03 (03:26):
I think um I think you were recommended, and I
remember you saying that youdidn't think your story was
worthy.
Do you remember that?
SPEAKER_01 (03:35):
I don't.
So I don't know.
SPEAKER_03 (03:38):
I remember that.
Oh, that sounds like pneumatics.
Um I remember that becauseyou're the only person who's
ever said that to me.
And it stuck with me because Ithink everybody's story, I think
everybody's worthy, period, endof.
So it really stuck with mebecause I don't think you need
to have any kind of anything tobe worthy of.
SPEAKER_01 (03:58):
You know, I I I can think that maybe I thought, why
would my story be interesting?
You know, it's just a typicalkid gets bullied at school story
and spends his entire lifetrying to overcome all the
trauma of that.
You know, it's like everybody'sgot a similar story.
SPEAKER_03 (04:15):
Well, no.
SPEAKER_01 (04:16):
No.
SPEAKER_03 (04:16):
Um, and also everybody's story helps
everybody else.
And so it just stuck with me.
SPEAKER_01 (04:24):
I I certainly, after all that we've done with my my
podcast and now this one, I seethat clearly now.
But I think when I was on yourpodcast, I don't think I had
even launched my podcast yet.
I think it was I was pre-hostfor me.
Um, so I see it very, verydifferently now.
Because somebody said yesterday,I said you should launch a
(04:46):
podcast.
And he said, uh, for the life ofme, I can't imagine why anybody
would want to listen to what Ihave to say.
And I said, Are you kidding me?
So I think that's kind ofuniversal sometimes, you know.
SPEAKER_04 (04:56):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (04:58):
You know, we're too close to our own story.
So it's it seems like it seemsvery mundane to us, but you
know, it's we we're our ownunique fingerprint.
We are the the only ones who getto ride this the way that we
experience it.
SPEAKER_02 (05:17):
Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_03 (05:19):
And being able the reason I used to do that podcast
and that magazine, Beneath YourBeautiful, was just hearing
somebody rising above the thingsthey've gone through can help
somebody else.
And that's why that was soimportant to me, because it's
easy to get stuck when reallyit's our choice to be stuck,
(05:39):
even though it doesn't feel likeit.
SPEAKER_00 (05:41):
Oh, that that begs a question.
I I'm really curious about thetiming because I I know a little
bit about your story, and justknowing how um knowing the the
major beats, like how as a younggirl, you had an an interest in
photography, you pursued itactively, you had your own dark
(06:04):
room, you saved all your moneyfrom your job at the great
American chocolate chip companyto go and and make uh make
everything happen withphotography, but you gave it up
as soon as you crossed thatthreshold into adulthood and
practical and and doing allthat.
So if I'm hearing the timingright, this is after you started
(06:29):
to introduce photographyseriously in your life again.
SPEAKER_03 (06:35):
Um yes.
What happened was, well, yes,I'll give you a little uh try to
do it quickly.
SPEAKER_01 (06:41):
Um okay, we've got time.
SPEAKER_03 (06:42):
Oh, okay.
When I was five and seven, I wastouched inappropriately when I
was younger.
And um, well, that's okay.
I mean, now definitely it'sokay.
Um, but nobody talked about it,even though it was known in my
family.
And at 50 years old, I went to atrauma counselor because a
(07:06):
nutritionist sent me there.
And I was like, you know, Idon't have nothing's wrong, you
know.
But my brother had died of adrug overdose.
My mom died when I was only 18,she was just 46.
Um, I had a lot of traumagrowing up, and I really was a
uh a tumbleweed in life.
I didn't know I had um to takeresponsibility for all the
(07:29):
choices I made.
I felt like life was happeningto me instead of I was
responsible.
And and I finally talked aboutthe trauma, and I finally took
responsibility for all thethings, and it changed my life.
And I learned to love me in thisbody with this whatever
(07:52):
cleverness I have or don't have.
And it was that was that's mymission.
It's not really photography orgraphic design or any of this.
The mission is to help otherpeople not waste any time buried
in their trauma and thinkingthat they can't that they can't
(08:14):
rise above it.
The word is rise above becausewe can all have gone through
hard things, but we don't haveto stay there.
And so once I realized it,that's really what I just hope
for everybody.
So I don't know what your evenquestion was.
SPEAKER_01 (08:31):
No, that's no, I it's it's incredible.
Absolutely beautiful, so wellsaid.
SPEAKER_03 (08:38):
Yeah, that's the that's the passion behind
everything I do, and the passionbehind trying to build a
community in the arts.
Because for me, well, I gotdiagnosed with marginal zone
lymphoma last year, and it's anincurable cancer.
And from last April through thisFebruary, even, I couldn't get
(09:00):
off the couch.
I was just, I lost a year.
And I decided, you know, theonly way to get me out of the
house is to make art, is to havea studio to bring people
together.
And art really does, I think, Imean, it's keeping me alive.
(09:20):
I I have the most loving husbandand lovely children and
siblings, but it's just notenough.
I think art is what makes my mypulse go, you know, it's what um
really just keeps me going.
And so, so I'm trying to build acommunity of like-minded people,
but it's not easy.
And I'm very curious how yourcommunity building is going.
SPEAKER_01 (09:44):
Um, it's not easy.
SPEAKER_03 (09:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (09:47):
It's not easy to, you know, we live in a world
that's so distracted now, andscreens and the busyness
epidemic, and it's hard to getpeople to show up for events.
Um sometimes we do, sometimes wedon't.
Um it is a challenging time.
SPEAKER_00 (10:07):
Well, while it is challenging, the things that you
can see right away are thethings that feed into our own
negativity biases.
And we are reminded at thosetimes that when we're not even
looking for it, that we have aneffect, that there is a lasting,
outstretching ripple that uh hasum it has a a lasting um well,
(10:35):
just a lasting effect with thosethat we touched.
And there are those in our campthat would do anything for us.
They're they're willing to showup for everything.
And I I've I have found thatit's in those moments when we
feel the most despair, when wefeel like everything that we're
doing is falling on deaf ears,uh, we're surprised by those
(10:59):
people who are willing to toshow up and say, you know, pick
me.
I I want to take part.
What can we do next?
SPEAKER_03 (11:06):
It's fascinating, actually, the people that are
sort of on your periphery even,not your not your besties.
So it's very interesting whodoes want to come help and and
be a part of it.
I love I have loved that part ofthis, finding out who who the
dreamers are, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (11:26):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (11:29):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (11:30):
Yeah, but it it can be lonely when we're when you're
in the trenches.
SPEAKER_03 (11:34):
I have I think my life's work is to to really
acknowledge what's meant for meis for me.
Those that don't love me, don'tlove me.
And that's let them, let themnot like me if they don't.
Boy, that is like uh if I haveany work to do, which I have
plenty of work to do, but the Ithink the strongest calling I
(11:56):
feel right now is get the littlelittle Hara inside me um
parented better because she's soinsecure.
And, you know, see me, love me.
And you know, the 57-year-oldwoman's like, it's okay, you are
loved.
(12:17):
But boy, it's a battle.
SPEAKER_01 (12:20):
That that's something I speak about really
frequently because I struggledwith that for for many, many
years.
And it it finally, I finally hadthat aha moment where I realized
that when I stopped trying tofit in, you know, because to fit
in, you have to carve parts ofyourself away, like the square
(12:42):
peg going into a round hole.
I stopped trying to fit in andjust started focusing on being
just who exactly who I was.
And what I found is that reallythat's a polarizer.
It it sends people eitherscreaming and running or they
want to come and sit right nextto me.
(13:03):
And when I realized that most ofthe time the people that
screamed and ran were the peoplethat I wouldn't have wanted to
have in my space anyway.
And the people that wanted tocome and sit right next to me,
for the most part, were thepeople that I was so excited to
have them come and sit rightnext to me.
And and it's it was just such agame changer for me.
(13:24):
It helped me guide the littleboy inside of me.
I did a lot of um inner childwork to just really play and to
be that little boy and to focuson the people that that showed
up and wanted to play with thatlittle boy and to bless and
(13:47):
release the rest.
You know, Dwight was telling meearlier today, we he posted some
video footage of me captured inone of our episodes, whereas I
was on one of my little rants,and I was talking about this
very thing, about the polarizingeffects of authenticity.
And he said, Well, it's gottentwo reactions so far, one thumbs
(14:07):
up and one thumbs down.
And I said, Did the thumbs downmake a comment?
Because curiosity is killing me.
I'd love to know.
It didn't faze me even a littlebit that I got a thumbs down.
Probably not my person, butwould still have loved to have
just been a fly on the wall toknow exactly, you know, what
(14:29):
that was about.
SPEAKER_03 (14:31):
Well, intellectually, I hear you.
I mean, my brain hears you, andmy 57-year-old woman sitting in
front of you hears you, and thelittle girl inside me is like,
but and stomping her foot.
And I'm getting there becauseI'm very aware of it.
So that's very helpful.
And I definitely need some innerchild work.
(14:52):
Somebody just recommended a bookto me, but anyway, I gotta
start, I gotta start playingmore.
SPEAKER_01 (14:57):
Are you familiar with mirror work?
SPEAKER_03 (15:00):
Mm-mm.
Well, I mean, will you just talkto yourself in the mirror?
I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (15:04):
Yeah, you know, I I will pile.
I still do this.
I've done this for decades.
I learned mirror work fromLouise Hay way back in like the
80s.
I'll pile up in my bed with ahand mirror that I have saved
from my days as a salon ownerand hold it pretty close to my
face.
And for a period, I'll juststare into my own eyes.
(15:26):
Complete silence, justconnecting with myself.
And then I'll say whatever Iwant to say, but I always make
sure it's very loving and veryaffirming.
All the things that the littleseven-year-old inside of me
needs to hear, it has beensingle-handedly probably the
best out of all the books, allof the therapy sessions, all of
(15:47):
the workshops, the mirror workhas been the thing that I
continue to do.
The mirror stays between the bedand the nightstand right there.
So I have easy access to itbecause it's such an important
thing to connect with myself andand just yeah, you know, give
myself the same thing I wouldgive Dwight because I love him,
(16:09):
or one of my close friendsbecause I love them, which is my
time and my attention.
SPEAKER_03 (16:16):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (16:17):
It's just really it's really powerful, but it's
really simple.
That's what I love about it.
SPEAKER_00 (16:23):
Herod, do you have any little children in in your
life?
SPEAKER_03 (16:28):
Um, my daughters just are just turned 30 and 26,
and they are the reason Ilearned to love myself.
About a decade ago, I heard mydaughter when she was about 20
say she hated her body.
And I was unlike I couldn'tbelieve it.
(16:48):
She was perfect, you know, she'smy baby.
And I realized at the time shewas mimicking me.
And I thought, well, what ifshe's perfect because she's my
baby?
Well, I was somebody's baby tooonce.
And so then I must be perfect.
And I started talking to myself.
I I really, I really, that wasthe first time I could even say
(17:09):
young Hara or little Harawithout rolling my eyes at
myself.
Um, like because I'm theyoungest of six kids, for some
reason I imagine them beinglike, oh, you know, needy little
Hara.
But but little Hara is veryneedy, and and I'm giving her
all the things she needs now.
(17:31):
So I am very in tune with thislittle girl, and I talk to
myself just so, just like I talkto my kids.
You're perfect, good try, youknow, I love you.
I really do.
At first it was weird, and nowit's just that's how I speak to
myself.
That is what I want for others.
Um, so having that's what Ialways I'm I'm saying that
(17:54):
because I always ask somebody,if you have little kids, then
you'll know how to loveyourself.
Yeah because because if you canjust imagine how you love your
child, how you're justsomebody's child.
SPEAKER_01 (18:04):
It is so simple.
It is so simple.
It's amazing to me how manypeople say, I don't and I don't
know how to do that.
How do I do that?
And I just say, just think ofthe little child that lives
inside of you like a realphysical child that you have,
that you are completelyresponsible for their every
need.
(18:25):
Yeah, every need from physicalfood, water, shelter to
emotional needs to all needs,and just give them what you
would give a real child.
It's not rocket science.
SPEAKER_03 (18:37):
Yeah.
Um, yeah, I don't know why it isso hard to love ourselves.
I I've gained so much the chemo,I gained 30 pounds with the
chemo, but that does not, afterso long, I know that it does not
define who I am.
It has nothing to do with who Iam.
Um, I know my worth period.
(19:01):
It does, it's not based onanything that I ever thought it
used to be based on.
There's no, I am worthy becauseI'm just worthy because I'm, you
know, I'm alive, I'm a person.
Those are the things I wish, Iwish my even my children knew,
but hopefully I'm now teachingthem that instead of I hate my
body because it's not whateversize I think it's supposed to
(19:22):
be.
SPEAKER_01 (19:23):
Teaching it and modeling it for.
SPEAKER_03 (19:25):
Modeling it, definitely.
SPEAKER_01 (19:26):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (19:27):
And so many others need to hear it.
SPEAKER_01 (19:29):
So you you said earlier, you know, this isn't
really about photography or younamed a couple of other things,
you know, it is really aboutbringing people together.
But it seems that everythingyou've done has been rooted in
some form of creativity.
SPEAKER_03 (19:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (19:51):
How can I come to you?
SPEAKER_03 (19:53):
I mean, would you I've been a my mom was a fine
artist, and um, so I guess it'sjust in me, but um, I went
through college and got a degreein advertising, so I've always
been in the creative industry.
I was a graphic designer, I am agraphic designer for since 1990.
And um you're this the what youwere saying about my photography
(20:14):
is when I was in high school,even younger, I always had a
camera.
And I went to I went throughcollege and I got a degree in
advertising and communications,but I still loved photography.
And I went to an ad agency inMiami.
I mean, um, a photo studio inMiami.
I was already working at an adagency, and I was gonna give it
(20:36):
all up and they were gonna takeme on as an apprentice, and I
was so intimidated by lightingthat I just didn't do it.
And then and then at 50 I talkedabout my my childhood sexual
abuse, and then I went to aconference it's so funny that a
(20:59):
conference can do this, but theythe whole weekend they kept
talking about whatever you feelcalled about, you're you have to
do it.
Like it's you're doing God gaveyou that on purpose, whatever
that is calling you.
And that very next weekend, Istarted taking pictures of this
(21:20):
woman because she kept sayinghow she kept complaining about
herself the whole time.
I was with her, and I was like,oh my God, I see your beauty and
you don't see it.
Can I take pictures of you withmy iPhone?
And that sparked photographyagain.
I I took pictures of like, Idon't know, eight people before
I bought a real camera again, ofjust to show them how beautiful
(21:40):
they are.
So I think that's what I bringto it through my art, is I just
want you to be seen because Ithink as the youngest of six, I
don't think I talked till I was15 because my sister talked for
me.
I definitely was invisible.
I have been up to been up to abar counter and been invisible.
(22:06):
And you know, like I can so Ithink that's the passion, is I
want you to feel seen and heard,and that's why the podcast,
that's why the photography Ijust if I can give anything
back, that's what I'm giving,and also I get a lot out of it.
Um, I really enjoy holdingspace, and I I shockingly am
(22:31):
good at it.
I say shockingly because I justthe younger me can't believe
that I do this.
SPEAKER_01 (22:37):
You are you are good for that, and we have that in
common, you know.
As I listen to you talk, I thinkabout that.
Was my whole reason for gettinginto the beauty industry was to
help people just see howbeautiful they really are.
SPEAKER_03 (22:53):
Yeah, is it it's almost like a crime to not love
yourself and to go through life.
Can you imagine somebody on yourdeathbed going, oh, that was a
really nice person, but theyshould have lost 10 pounds.
Nobody's ever gonna say that,nobody's ever gonna think
anything, all the things we'reworried about, nobody else is
caring.
SPEAKER_00 (23:11):
That's right.
SPEAKER_03 (23:13):
I mean, the size of my ass does not dictate whether
my husband likes me or not.
So it doesn't matter.
At this weight, I'm havingplenty of fun.
SPEAKER_00 (23:23):
There you go.
SPEAKER_03 (23:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (23:26):
Yeah, it's it's sad that there's such a machine
that's in place to keep usimprisoned in um so many things
that just don't matter.
I mean, you you've seen it fromthe inside.
SPEAKER_03 (23:39):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I I once didn't go into anevent.
I was all dressed up, I wassitting in the parking lot.
And this was, I mean, probablywell, a lot of pounds ago.
I mean, probably 70 pounds ago.
I didn't go into the eventbecause I felt fat.
I mean, what a crime.
How I mean, no, if I walked intothat event, I can't imagine one
(24:01):
person thinking, oh, there'sHara, but she's fat.
It's so crazy what what we do toourselves.
And so I just don't want towaste another second not
thinking I'm all that becauseI'm the only me, too.
Like I know I'm cool justbecause I exist.
Like there's I bring something,I have a voice that nobody else
(24:21):
has.
That doesn't mean that somebodycan't duplicate it or I'm just
saying there's something specialabout me, as is there is about
everyone.
SPEAKER_00 (24:30):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (24:31):
Yes.
Ah, I you you're just yeah.
Pouring out beautiful words.
I love everything you're saying.
And it is the epitome of who youare.
You know, I've just been aroundyou enough, and I'm just such a
good judge of character and andintuition and feel into people's
hearts.
(24:52):
I know beyond a shadow of adoubt, that's exactly who you
are.
SPEAKER_04 (24:55):
Oh, thank you.
I feel is that like when a doglikes you?
SPEAKER_01 (24:58):
I do, you know, it's reflected in your podcast.
And now all the I, you know, Isee some of the photos you take.
I don't see all of them, but Isee some of them.
And and and it's all about justreally bringing beauty into the
forefront where people noticeit.
It's all around, but bringing itup where people notice it, and
(25:20):
that's that's just amazing.
Tell us a little bit more aboutthe because it's it's been a a
year ago or a little more than ayear ago that you launched Dream
Studio.
SPEAKER_03 (25:32):
Dream Studio just opened in April of this year.
SPEAKER_01 (25:36):
Okay.
I'm off on time just a littlebit.
SPEAKER_03 (25:38):
Well, that's okay.
Last year I got diagnosed withthe cancer, and so I kind of
lost that whole year.
But in April we opened.
So it hasn't been that longthough.
I'm an impatient person and Iwant I want all the things right
this second.
SPEAKER_01 (25:53):
Yep.
I feel that.
Tell us a little bit about themotivation for that and and what
that looks like, what's going onthere in the studio?
Because I get some of youremails and know that there's
you're pulling people togetherfor photography shows and for
different creative things.
Tell it, give us a little bit ofan overview, please.
SPEAKER_03 (26:15):
Um, well, I I've done a few events.
I've done some art events uh inthis in Spokane, they do First
Fridays, which are art shows,and you know, and so we're on
that path that we did three ofthem so far.
And that was fun.
It's just it's a lot of work,and and you know, like I feel
(26:35):
like, you know, I don't know ifyou proud, maybe you know, like
you know how when you didn't getpicked in school, that's how I
every First Friday feels to me.
Every event, every everythingI've ever done feels that way.
That's why I'm saying the littlegirl in me is alive and well and
loud, because she's like, pickme, pick me.
I just watched a TV showyesterday that said something
(26:57):
about don't be a pick me girl.
I'm a pick me girl.
Um, but it's been beautiful.
I brought a lot of creativestogether.
I just had a creative meetup,which was really fun, and there
was a lot of people that camethrough the studio.
I mean, there's there's otherevents that are happening.
I'm getting I'm doing a lightingclass, which is the irony of all
(27:18):
ironies, because I'm trying toshow people that it's not as
hard as you think, and Ishouldn't have waited 30 years
to go to it because it took me30 years, yeah, full circle.
So that's really exciting.
SPEAKER_01 (27:29):
Well, we we also teach what we must need to
learn.
So that makes perfect sense tome.
SPEAKER_03 (27:34):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I love I really do love thatbecause that's what I was so
scared, and really it is notscary at all.
It's just point the point it atsomebody and see what happens.
That's what I think about allart now that I know better.
I'm just trying to have fun.
I can't take anything tooseriously.
It might come out, it might not.
(27:56):
It's you probably probablygonna.
You know, I've no done it enoughto know that it's gonna work
out, but also I'm going into itwith let's see what happens.
Right.
So there's no fear that way.
SPEAKER_00 (28:09):
Yeah, you you never know if you don't try.
Or I guess the other way offraming that is it'll it'll
never work if you don't try.
SPEAKER_03 (28:19):
And I think it's okay to the word isn't fail, but
to create something that youdon't like, toss it and try
again.
Like it is not the end of theworld to make art that is not
what you hoped it would be.
But it we have this such a fearof, well, I can't, I'm not
creative.
That's just I just that'sanother thing that really I hope
(28:43):
we can let go of because for me,the joy of creating is as much
as the final product.
There's such a pleasure.
SPEAKER_00 (28:52):
Yeah, unfortunately, I I think that there's there are
too many dark forces that gainfrom people having uh a very
fixed mentality where it's it'sa coin flip.
It's you win or you lose.
But in reality, if we try tosustain an infinite gain, even
(29:16):
that coin flip when you'relearning something is well, I
mean, that's just it.
You're either you either getlucky or if when it doesn't work
out, you learn something alittle bit more.
That's how you acquire skills,it's how you sharpen the saw.
SPEAKER_03 (29:35):
Right.
I I think that's true too.
I'm learning that too aboutpeople.
Like every time somethinghappens, it's like, okay, that
person's a lesson for me.
I'm not sure if I know what thelesson is this minute, but I
know it's something I'm supposedto learn.
And you know, I'm really,really, really working hard to
(29:55):
not take things personally.
I mean, if I'm on my deathbedand I'm still saying that, I
didn't succeed, but I'm workingon it.
That's the hardest one for me.
SPEAKER_01 (30:05):
I think that's hard for all of us.
I it all feels personal, doesn'tit?
Yeah, it does.
Yeah, I just have to really stepback sometimes and say, okay,
you know, people didn't plot tohurt you by not showing up at
your event or whatever the thingis.
SPEAKER_03 (30:22):
100%.
They're not even.
Been thinking about you at all.
Like they have forgotten thatthere was an event.
I totally know this.
Like, my I guess what I'msaying.
Like the 57-year-old is totallyfine.
She's just having to calm downthe five-year-old, you know,
there, there.
SPEAKER_01 (30:38):
Exactly.
You know, I I think the there'sI'm I'm wondering if there's
something more.
Your your story about walkingaway from photography because
you didn't think they wereintimidated by the lighting.
And we all have something likethis.
Um is there more that we coulddive into that?
(31:02):
Because I think that's somethingthat is kind of universal and
creative.
I know for me, when my fatherdied in 2012, I had been saying
one of these days, one of thesedays, I'm going to take painting
lessons.
And he died.
I got that slap of mortality inthe face, and I started taking
classes and painting.
And I painted for five, sixyears, maybe seven, I don't
(31:24):
remember.
And then I put it down.
And I haven't touched it now inabout seven years.
And about, I don't know, threemonths ago, I decided I wanted
to paint again.
And I've been creative all mylife.
And most of the creativeendeavors that I took on, I was
able to create things that wereworthwhile, you know, whether it
(31:46):
was decorating the house forChristmas, whether it was baking
something or cooking somewonderful creation or hair color
and haircuts and makeup on myabsolutely fabulous clientele.
I did photography for a numberof years as a hobby and even
(32:06):
shot professionally for a coupleof years.
That was a mistake, but ruinedit for me.
But for me, most of the thingsthat I've gone into creatively
have kind of come rather easy tome.
I I do remember photography thatin the beginning, just I just
wasn't getting it.
(32:27):
You know, I was studying, I wasreading, I was playing with the
camera and all these settingsand what they do, and and it
wasn't clicking.
And I just kind of kept beingpatient and kept studying.
And one day it was just like allof a sudden it made sense.
Well, I'm in that right now withmy painting.
Yes, I've acquired a few skills,and I can paint a thing or two
(32:52):
here or there that kind of lookdecent, but there's some aspect
of it that just hasn't quiteclicked yet.
I just don't, I it just hasn'tclicked.
SPEAKER_00 (33:03):
And part of it is that you carry around with you
your own harshest critic.
You you carry one of the thingsthat you gain from that 40-year
beauty professional career isthat you always aspire for
perfection the first timearound.
SPEAKER_01 (33:21):
Well, you know, you don't get a second time once
you've cut their hair off, it'scut, you know.
You you you only get one chanceto do that color and that cut
right.
Because if you fuck it up, it'salmost impossible to come back
from that.
SPEAKER_03 (33:38):
And I appreciate perfectionism in hairdressers.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (33:42):
Yes, yes.
And that's been probably part ofthe hardest thing to overcome
because everything, most of whatI've done had a very specific
end game.
I knew what I wanted it to looklike before I even started.
And I, when I started painting,I thought, I don't want that.
I I I just want to start and letit take me on a journey, not
(34:05):
knowing where the end place isgoing to be.
But boy, the way my mind worksis just struggling with that.
Um, so I think that there's forall of us, it doesn't matter
what stage of our creativejourney we're in, we hit walls
from time to time.
(34:25):
And you have a story of how youjust charged and you know mowed
that wall down.
Now you're teaching thelighting.
SPEAKER_03 (34:39):
I found out it's ADHD.
I have no impulse control.
That's what I think the uhmowing things down is.
I just I am a throw shit at thewall and see if it'll stick kind
of girl.
I'm not very uh I'm not figuringout the steps to get there.
I'm just gonna try it and seewhat works.
SPEAKER_01 (35:01):
You're you're not a strategist.
You're not you're not astrategic.
SPEAKER_03 (35:04):
There's no strategy in this this brain.
There's all creative.
There's all I'm tilted.
There's a whole left side of methat's empty.
It's very hard to go throughlife this way, actually.
Um, especially with my husbandwho's extremely the opposite,
(35:24):
very organized, knows.
I mean, I have to ask him whereeverything is.
It's so cute.
SPEAKER_00 (35:29):
Oh, well, that that's one way of achieving
balance.
SPEAKER_03 (35:32):
It's nice to have them.
Yeah, oh yes, it's very good,actually.
Um well for me, the lightingthing was my sister, the closest
sister to me, we were one personwhen we were little.
I mentioned that she talked forme.
We were we weren't separate.
(35:53):
Um, but she was the smart one.
She was in the gifted, and I wasnot.
I was in remedial math.
You know, I just was not her.
And I believed the lie I toldmyself that I was stupid.
Um, I truly, which is so strangebecause I learned how to use a
computer, but for some reasonthe lighting, and like you're
saying, the camera isintimidating.
(36:15):
Um so I just was sure that wasnot my path.
And then, and then right when Istarted, it was right before
COVID, and COVID hit, and sothen I did, oh, I'm gonna try a
self-portrait series, whichlasted 60 days.
It wasn't meant to be 60 days,but it was 60 days of me
(36:37):
practicing lighting, a verypatient model, uh, me, and um I
found out it wasn't as hard as Ithought it was.
So, I mean, I got really luckywith COVID and this
self-portrait series, and I I Iknow so many photographers that
are like, well, I don't dolighting, I'm a natural light
photographer because they'rescared.
(36:58):
And so that's the the lightingclass is lighting made simple,
you know, a hands-on approachbecause it's truly so simple and
it it adds so much to the image.
You know, you're you don'tyou're not dictated by the
light, you're you're creatingwith light.
SPEAKER_01 (37:15):
Yes, you're painting with light.
SPEAKER_03 (37:16):
You're painting with light.
You are the master of whathappens in that picture.
SPEAKER_01 (37:21):
It is something you have to master for sure, but I
always felt like when I wasdoing photography, it you know,
when you're working with naturallight, you're at the mercy of
the weather, the time of theday, short seasons when it stays
dark later in the morning andgets dark earlier in the
evening.
Yeah, it plays havoc with youryour whole creative uh journey.
(37:46):
And and to be able to manipulateartificial light gives you an
insane amount of freedom.
SPEAKER_03 (37:54):
But but I think the the thing is you don't have to
master it, you just have to playwith it.
And I think that's what you haveto learn about your painting.
And what we all have to keep inmind is that nobody's an expert.
I just talked to somebody whoworks on worked on films in LA,
and the sound guy who gets paid,she said, as much as she made
(38:16):
all year on that one project,um, would say, Oh, I don't know,
let me go look that up.
Like, just you don't have toknow everything.
And every, even he's gettingpaid so much and he doesn't know
everything, and he's not evenpretending he knows everything.
I think we I that's what likeevery photo shoot, a paid one or
(38:39):
a play one, I'm still going intoit with the emotion of I'm gonna
have fun, I'm gonna play, I hopeit works out.
Like I said, it usually does,but but because I've taken all
the pressure off of me, now I'mgonna have fun no matter what.
SPEAKER_01 (38:54):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (38:55):
And now it's art again and it's not a stress.
Because what what the point,what's the point of even doing
it if I'm not having fun?
SPEAKER_00 (39:04):
What a gift you give to yourself.
SPEAKER_03 (39:06):
Yeah, I'm very generous.
I think if people could hear theold inner critic and this this
new sweet person that chats withme, they'd be like, ah, you
know, like when people are so inlove and they're gooey.
That's what I'm like withmyself.
I'm just so very kind.
SPEAKER_01 (39:26):
I like that a lot.
SPEAKER_03 (39:28):
Yeah, me too.
SPEAKER_01 (39:29):
Very much the whole world could use a an extra dose
of that.
SPEAKER_03 (39:33):
Yeah, yeah.
I wish it for them.
I really do.
SPEAKER_01 (39:39):
That's beautiful.
Well, what's what's next?
SPEAKER_03 (39:44):
Well, well, um, I I think until I die, until I die,
I'm gonna make art in whateverform that it takes.
Um I mean, I'm not activelydying, but I do have incurable
cancer, and I have chosen not todo chemo again because it kind
(40:09):
of stole a year from me.
And with incurable cancer, it'lljust be like, that doesn't sound
like a good idea to do it againand again and again and again,
lose years when I could.
I'm already 57, I only have somany left.
So I'm just gonna live out loudand and make art.
This is what I wrote the otherday.
I had a I had the creativemeetup here, and we had to write
(40:31):
our dreams up on the board.
And all I wrote was make loveand make art.
So if I die doing those twothings, I'll be good.
I have had the love of my life.
I have the love of my life.
I am so lucky.
I was miserably miserable inlove for 45 years, and then I
met my husband.
(40:52):
And so for the last 11 years,I've been so lucky and feel very
okay with whatever happens,happens.
That's also a lovely place tobe.
SPEAKER_01 (41:07):
You know, I can I can literally feel that peace.
SPEAKER_03 (41:11):
Yeah, totally.
SPEAKER_01 (41:12):
I can I can feel it.
You've made peace with what'sgoing on, and you're just gonna
make the absolute friggin' bestat it.
SPEAKER_03 (41:20):
Yeah, yeah.
I'm not sad about anything.
I'm not like it's not morose atall.
I think I I wish that foreverybody too, to be at peace
with the ending that is destinedfor you.
You just don't know when.
The people the fact that peopleare scared of death too is a
fascinating thing.
Um, but I just feel very atpeace with all of it.
(41:45):
And I feel I'm so lucky to havebeen loved so well by my
husband.
And people that have graced mycamera lens have just, I love
making art.
I love the beauty in everybody,and I appreciate that they let
me shoot them, you know,photograph them.
SPEAKER_01 (42:03):
It's a real special thing to be allowed to come into
somebody's world, isn't it?
SPEAKER_03 (42:08):
I think so.
I think that with the podcasttoo, you know, you know that you
know, you get intimate.
You almost feel like it's sointimate, we must be best
friends.
And then you have to realizeyou're not, you're just for that
moment.
But that's okay too.
That once you get that, thatit's nice to have that moment
with somebody.
SPEAKER_01 (42:25):
Well, and knowing that, you know, at any time you
could recreate that moment.
I believe that I could reach outto any person that's on the
podcast and say, can we connect?
And and it would be a mostlikely a resounding yes.
SPEAKER_03 (42:41):
Yes, I feel that way too.
It's it is a beautifulexperience.
I love that people are willingto open up at all, and
especially in these ways.
You know, a lot of models askme, a lot of people ask me,
well, what should I wear?
Or what do you what's yourconcept?
And I'm like, what do you wantto wear?
What's your concept?
I mean, it I don't even think ithas anything to do with me.
(43:03):
I mean, I am bringing artistryto it, but generally I feel like
I'm pointing the camera at youand you're doing everything.
You're the art, you are whatwe're trying to capture.
It doesn't really have anythingto do with my vision of you
because I don't know you, evenif I know you.
Like, what do you want people tothink about you?
What do you want to portray?
(43:25):
So I I really love thecollaborative process of
photography.
Because it's not about me.
I do enjoy it, I love the art ofit, but it's about the person
and how do they want to berepresented.
SPEAKER_01 (43:40):
Yeah, holding space for them to really show up so
you capture the who they reallyare.
SPEAKER_03 (43:48):
Right.
Yeah.
Well, recently I I had somebodyupset with me and I said that,
you know, while I'm a safespace, somebody pointed out the
difference between holding spaceand being a safe space.
And I'll share that with youbecause I think it's fascinating
because I didn't realize thedifference.
(44:09):
I mean, I don't know if you do,but I just I just love this idea
because it was a good lesson forme.
Well, I'm like, but I'm a safespace.
And he said, How can you be asafe space for everybody?
Because if you're in the BlackPanthers, the KKK is not a safe
space for you.
And I was like, Oh, oh, yeah,like, okay.
(44:34):
Though so that's just anotherlesson of those who love me or
feel safe around me, love me andfeel safe around me.
And those who don't, don't, andthat's okay, let them, let them.
That's a hard one.
Um, but somebody came into thecreative meeting, she didn't
know anybody, she was veryemotional, she started to cry,
(44:55):
and I held her, I hugged her andheld her for a little bit.
And she wrote recently, shewrote afterwards, um, thank you
for holding space for me.
And I was like, that's what Ican do.
I can hold space, but I can't bea safe space for everyone.
And I love that lesson.
That was just recently.
Isn't that a really good way oflooking at it?
SPEAKER_01 (45:14):
It is.
We we got exposed to somethingsimilar to that probably maybe
about a almost two years agowhen, you know, because we we
host events and and we we wewould say, you know, this is
we've that we've created a safecontainer, and and and we were
taught, and and we really,really fully get it, that we
don't have that ability.
SPEAKER_04 (45:35):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (45:36):
We just don't have the ability to create a safe
container for others.
We have the ability to holdspace and then ask them if they
will collectively create a safecontainer, yeah, and get their
buy-in.
And we do that with every eventthat we we lead.
And it's amazing what that youcan feel a shift in energy in
(46:01):
the room when everybody hasraised their hand to agree that
they will do everything in theirpower to hold the space as
sacred space and make it safefor everybody.
There's just this collectivekind of like, ah, exhale.
SPEAKER_04 (46:17):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (46:17):
And it just, and then everybody gets really,
really real, really open, andum, it does create a what we
call people magic.
SPEAKER_03 (46:27):
I love that.
Do you find that people are,especially artists?
I mean, I'm not sure what Ithink about this, but do you
find that people are constantlyin competition rather than
collaboration?
I'm not sure what I think aboutthat, but I I have a feeling
that there's that, that's aproblem.
SPEAKER_00 (46:48):
I think that's what's modeled in the West.
And uh it's something that's avery there's a very strong
pressure to have that be howpeople are are steered.
But it's overcome because uhthere are a lot of uh famous
(47:09):
anthropological studies wherethey go into places where they
haven't been corrupted by uh uhour commercial practices, and
it's very easy for um for thechildren to play infinite games
where there's not someone thatwins or loses, but the idea is
(47:32):
to just keep playing, and theywould go on forever.
SPEAKER_03 (47:38):
My sister and I actually, she's in Boston.
We play Catan in our Oculus andour and you know what I'm
talking about, a quest of VRheadset.
SPEAKER_02 (47:47):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_03 (47:47):
And it's a game of chance, so but we just play,
well, we'll play one more, we'llplay one more, we'll play one
more until you know 10 gameshave gone by.
But it's that same thing.
You're gonna win at some pointbecause it's it's a game of
chance.
It's not like you're better thanthe next person or smarter or
anything.
So that's the competitiveness isgone.
It's just like, let's see whathappens this time.
But it's very uh joyful to play.
(48:10):
I love I do like infinite games.
SPEAKER_01 (48:14):
You know, I I would say that in all of our because
we're very involved in the artscommunity locally, we go to a
lot of stuff, we host thisstuff, we have all these guests
on the podcast, and I would saywe don't come across very many
creatives that are talking upcompetitive energy.
Yeah, most of it's morecollaboration.
(48:37):
I can recall one very specificconversation where somebody, you
know, had an experience ofsomebody kind of like stealing
her idea and you know, likeliterally looking at some of her
paintings and then going andrecreating them and doing better
with them than she did withthem.
And so she is very like closedoff.
(49:00):
She doesn't want to have contactwith other creatives, and she's
very solo and very isolated andvery, very fearful.
SPEAKER_00 (49:08):
Yeah, she misses out, I think.
I mean, like you said, she'sfearful, but she's so alone,
like she's really on an island.
SPEAKER_01 (49:18):
You know, to have one experience like that and to
take that experience anddetermine that everybody is like
that is is um it's a real saddecision to make to decide that
you, you know, you had oneperson did you dirty, and now
(49:38):
you know, everybody is likethat.
And that's kind of a humancondition.
We tend to do that sometimes.
We label people and put them allin a box once we've you know had
one person of that type,whatever, do us do us wrong.
SPEAKER_03 (49:54):
Um but well, and also I feel like the person who
maybe maybe did wrong or maybedidn't because did she own art?
I don't know.
That's a thing, that's a wholenother thing.
But um, but to be like for thatone act to then be that person
for the rest of her life.
You know what I mean?
(50:14):
Like, I feel like we were justtalking about that I can think
something, write it down, andthen no longer think it because
it's outside of me.
Like I'm not even my thoughtsthat I had a minute ago
sometimes.
So to be like, you know, thatshe did that five months ago.
Like I'm I'm not the person fivemonths ago.
I'm not even the person I was athought a minute a minute ago.
SPEAKER_00 (50:36):
That's right.
We know that's a good thing.
SPEAKER_03 (50:37):
So we have to just totally give ourselves, give
each other grace too, because wecan't even be held responsible
for our own thoughts the minutewe think it, because we the
minute we let it go, sometimesit's not even true anymore.
SPEAKER_01 (50:50):
Yeah.
That's that's a valid point.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (50:54):
Yeah.
Well, because you can't, yeah, Idon't want to be held
responsible.
SPEAKER_01 (50:59):
You know, I I think maybe we don't attract much of
that because we speak so muchabout community and about
collaboration and co-elevation.
And yeah.
So we kind of that polarizingthing that we send those those
competitive people, they just goaway because, you know, we're
not speaking their language.
SPEAKER_03 (51:18):
I'm just in a community of, and I don't know
if this is true, is why uh thequestion was genuine.
I'm in a community ofphotographers who are all buying
for the same clients, I think.
It's a small community and a lotof photographers.
And so that's what made me thinkthat.
But my creative meetup, I had afilm director here and I had an
actress here who had never met,and she auditioned for her.
(51:41):
And anyway, that that's soexciting.
That's the whole idea.
Like I I made that happen justby creating the space for it to
happen.
And that I feel like there,that's what if that's all that
ever came out of all the thingsI've ever done, that's so cool.
Because that's the whole idea.
SPEAKER_01 (51:59):
That's what I call my happy place.
SPEAKER_03 (52:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (52:01):
Yeah.
You know, when we bring peopletogether and we see what happens
with the connections, um, thatthat really's my happy place.
unknown (52:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (52:12):
As you as you speak about that competitive
atmosphere, I'm reminded of theold proverb about the long
spoons.
You know, the spoon, so the waythat it's set up, you have these
people that are uh around a bigbowl of soup and they only have
really long spoons.
(52:33):
And the spoons are impossiblylong, so long that they can't
feed themselves the spoons.
But the only way that they canall eat is if they can serve
each other with the spoons.
SPEAKER_04 (52:46):
I love that.
Yeah.
unknown (52:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (52:50):
That's so beautiful.
There's a great visual of thator a short video that floated
around on Facebook uh a fewyears back that was just
amazing.
You know, illustrated, you know,the people scooping out with
these really long spoons, andthey couldn't get it to their
own mouth.
So they finally figured out thatthey would just feed each other.
It was beautiful.
SPEAKER_03 (53:09):
Yeah, that is beautiful.
Well, I'm hoping to to buildsomething here.
Um, you asked me, I guess youasked me what the future holds,
and the future holds, we'll see.
I don't know.
I don't know how long the futureis, I don't know what this space
will be.
I don't know if it'll all workout, but it always all works
(53:31):
out, just maybe not the way Ihave envisioned in my head.
So, so I'm open.
SPEAKER_01 (53:38):
Yeah.
No, it's kind of like mespreading paint on the canvas
and seeing where it takes me.
SPEAKER_03 (53:44):
Yeah.
Have you ever written somethingthe same way?
Like I've written a story whereI'm as excited as somebody who
might ever read it to find outwhat's gonna happen.
You know, I don't know.
I don't know, I don't know theend.
I don't know when a painting isthe same way as you.
I'm like, let's just see whathappens.
I feel the same way about it'sexciting to see what happens.
(54:05):
It is, and like the person whodid not know where she was going
in Italy, and I went to Franceonce too, and I didn't know.
I loved the I love not knowing.
SPEAKER_00 (54:15):
Well, it's it's all fun and games until you come
across the the wrong bordercheckpoint.
SPEAKER_03 (54:21):
Oh, well, I have people in charge.
My sister knew everything.
I did I wasn't I wasn't worriedabout, yeah, no, everything was
planned to the I don't know howwe're so different, but she knew
everything.
It was on a spreadsheet, evenyuck.
unknown (54:35):
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (54:36):
Wow, they all are different as night and day,
aren't you?
SPEAKER_03 (54:38):
Yes, yes.
I don't know how, right, she wasthe smart one.
SPEAKER_01 (54:42):
Well, we have one question that we ask every guest
toward the end of of theepisode.
And um, so here we go.
In your current creative life,what is the biggest pain point?
That challenge that if it weresolved would be a game changer
(55:05):
for your creative journey.
SPEAKER_03 (55:14):
I mean, I think I have it solved by not taking it
too seriously.
Like, I'm not holding myself tothere's no pain point because
I'm just playing.
But I think if I can answer thequestion in the way that if
there's a pain point in my lifein terms of like everything I
do, it would be just reallybuilding a community.
(55:39):
And and also then I think isthat the solution?
Will that will that changeeverything?
I don't even know.
You know, like you're sayingthat the people who don't like
you, then are they even thepeople you would want to be
around?
Like I want to build thiscommunity, but then will that
change anything?
I don't know.
So I'm open to it and I'mtrying, and we'll see.
(56:03):
But I don't think there'sanything that needs to happen to
change anything for me.
Oh, am I the only one who eversaid that?
SPEAKER_00 (56:13):
Well, it's it's a beautiful thing.
And oh, you know, you're you'retalking to uh the connections
and community guys, so we're alittle biased.
And uh we uh I hate to speak forMaddox, but we we love your
answer.
SPEAKER_03 (56:29):
Oh, good, good.
Well, I it's true.
I really can't even think ofanything because if if you're
just playing, if you're ifyou're willing to fail or the
project, you know, not with anypressure on yourself, there's
nothing, there's no pain point.
SPEAKER_01 (56:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (56:44):
I can't even think of anything.
SPEAKER_01 (56:46):
Yeah, nobody's nobody said that, Aaron.
SPEAKER_03 (56:49):
But also, because I'm we're all gonna die.
SPEAKER_01 (56:52):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (56:52):
Not in a bad way.
We're all just wasting timeworrying about things that
aren't to worry about.
SPEAKER_01 (56:59):
Well, you know, I for many years I've tried to,
you know, when I get too overlyworried about something, I will
project myself out to the veryend of my life.
Imagine that I'm about to takemy last few breaths.
And I ask myself, is thissomething that you'll be worried
about when you're about to takeyour last breath?
And if the answer is no, thenwhy are you worried about it
(57:22):
now?
SPEAKER_03 (57:23):
I don't think that's morose.
I think that's brilliant.
I think we should all be doingthat because it's really true.
We're holding on to things thatdo not matter.
Right.
Or like think about somebodywho's written something stupid
on Facebook and then that'stheir last post.
I'm just saying any moment canbe our last, and we just have
(57:45):
to.
My mom passed away when I was18.
So I always thought she was 46.
I always thought I was gonna dieat 46.
And so I've kind of been livingthat way anyway.
Yes, like just, you know, uhcould die any minute.
And now I'm 57.
I didn't die at 46, luckily.
So every day is already a gift.
I just I really don't want towaste any of them.
(58:07):
There's so few.
SPEAKER_00 (58:09):
Yeah, you you have to love fate.
And I'm I'm reminded of uh anice story I came across where
there was someone who was at thethe horri horribly um old age of
30, I believe it was.
And just feeling like it was allover, they were all washed up,
(58:31):
that was the end.
And someone had the kindness touh have them think about what it
would be like for the90-year-old version of
themselves to think about howevery day that they had up and
you know, that followed was morethan a second chance because you
(58:55):
know they uh they got to reallyseize the day uh for another 60
years.
And what a gift is that.
SPEAKER_04 (59:06):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (59:08):
When I hear somebody that's getting ready to turn 30
talking about their life isover, I have literally said to
them, don't make me bitch slapyou.
SPEAKER_03 (59:20):
Yes, it's it is annoying, it's really annoying.
Little do they know, but that'sokay.
We didn't know either at 30.
SPEAKER_01 (59:29):
Yeah, but I don't remember thinking my life was
over at 30.
SPEAKER_03 (59:32):
I don't either.
But we maybe we're from adifferent time.
SPEAKER_01 (59:37):
We were, yeah, we are.
SPEAKER_03 (59:38):
You know, they have everything.
I do feel sorry for them, the30-year-olds in particular,
because social media, while ithas been very good, they can
look anything up, they can knowanything they want to know.
They've also been thrust intothis world of comparison and the
highlight reel of everybody'slife rather than reality.
(01:00:01):
And it must, I mean, I do thinkit weighs differently on them.
You know, it can.
Yeah, I imagine it would becauseyou know, when I was young, you
only had it in your head whatwas happening, and now you can
actually see it.
And if it's just the highlightreel, I mean, I've been going
(01:00:22):
through um foreclosure.
On my house, and somebodysaying, Oh, I'm so glad to see
you're doing so well.
Because I was self-promoting,and they, you know, the truth
was my house was in foreclosure,but you only know the highlight
reel.
So social media, while it'swonderful, it is not the whole
picture.
And we and the youngergeneration is just has to be is
(01:00:46):
just in it, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (01:00:47):
Yeah, they don't really get that it's not the
whole picture.
SPEAKER_03 (01:00:50):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (01:00:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well said.
Well, this has been amazing.
SPEAKER_03 (01:00:56):
It's been lovely.
Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_01 (01:00:58):
I have I have loved this.
Thank you so much for um beingjust so open with what's going
on with you.
You know, it's it couldn't be aneasy thing to talk about, yet
you you you made it feel very,very easy.
Like I really do sense your yourlevel of peace.
(01:01:19):
And that in and of itself, thatenergy that you have left in
this space right now will be agift to every listener.
SPEAKER_03 (01:01:27):
Thank you.
I do I am very much at peace,which is you know, what a
blessing.
Just can't even imagine, youknow, my 30-year-old self whose
life was over.
No, I'm just kidding.
But, you know, I did go througha divorce in my early 30s and I
had two young kids, and it it iscan be overwhelming.
(01:01:47):
And so it's nice to remember topay attention to the sunsets and
the way the light's hittingsomething, and you know, just
take in all the little momentsbecause dream anyway.
What else is there?
SPEAKER_01 (01:01:59):
Yeah, exactly.
Well, thank you so much.
SPEAKER_03 (01:02:04):
Thank you.
Um I mean, I'm not actively dying, but I do have
incurable cancer, and I havechosen not to do chemo again
because it kind of stole a yearfrom me.
And with incurable cancer, it'lljust be like, that doesn't sound
like a good idea to do it againand again and again and again.
Lose years when I could, I'malready 57, I only have so many
(00:56):
left.
So I'm just gonna live out loudand and make art.
This is what I wrote the otherday.
I had a I had the creativemeetup here, and we had to write
our dreams up on the board.
And all I wrote was make loveand make art.
So if I die doing those twothings, I'll be good.
I have had the love of my life.
(01:17):
I have the love of my life.
I am so lucky.
I was miserably miserable inlove for 45 years, and then I
met my husband.
SPEAKER_01 (01:38):
Hello, it's Maddox and Dwight, and you're listening
to another episode of For theLove of Creatives podcast.
Welcome, and today our guest isHara Allison.
Welcome, Hara.
SPEAKER_03 (01:52):
Thank you.
Hello, I'm Hara Allison, and Iam a graphic designer for 30
some years and a photographer,and I also own a photography
studio that is kind of a dreamcome true.
It's pretty great in here.
SPEAKER_01 (02:10):
Well, and isn't it called Dream Studio?
SPEAKER_03 (02:13):
It's called Dream Studio, but I wanted to call it
Impossible Dream, but had alittle negative.
But do you know from Man of LaMancha, The Impossible Dream?
SPEAKER_02 (02:22):
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (02:23):
Well, Don Quixote's my guy.
I've loved that.
I have Dulcinea and TheImpossible Dream tattooed on me.
I just, I really um I love thatstory.
The more I know it, the more Iget out of it.
Anyway, Impossible Dream isreally where it came from, but
Dream Studio seemed more upbeat.
(02:43):
But I do think we all fight theimpossible dream.
SPEAKER_01 (02:47):
Yes, we do.
We absolutely do.
Well, just to let our listenersknow, um, Hara and I have known
each other for I don't know,probably maybe four years.
Um if I remember correctly, Ifound your podcast on I guess it
was probably Apple ApplePodcasts and started listening.
(03:12):
And I think I reached out to youand said I think somebody
recommended you.
SPEAKER_03 (03:20):
Oh Tevi?
Do you know Tebby?
SPEAKER_04 (03:24):
That doesn't really matter.
SPEAKER_03 (03:26):
I think um I think you were recommended, and I
remember you saying that youdidn't think your story was
worthy.
Do you remember that?
SPEAKER_01 (03:35):
I don't.
So I don't know.
SPEAKER_03 (03:38):
I remember that.
Oh, that sounds like pneumatics.
Um I remember that becauseyou're the only person who's
ever said that to me.
And it stuck with me because Ithink everybody's story, I think
everybody's worthy, period, endof.
So it really stuck with mebecause I don't think you need
to have any kind of anything tobe worthy of.
SPEAKER_01 (03:58):
You know, I I I can think that maybe I thought, why
would my story be interesting?
You know, it's just a typicalkid gets bullied at school story
and spends his entire lifetrying to overcome all the
trauma of that.
You know, it's like everybody'sgot a similar story.
SPEAKER_03 (04:15):
Well, no.
SPEAKER_01 (04:16):
No.
SPEAKER_03 (04:16):
Um, and also everybody's story helps
everybody else.
And so it just stuck with me.
SPEAKER_01 (04:24):
I I certainly, after all that we've done with my my
podcast and now this one, I seethat clearly now.
But I think when I was on yourpodcast, I don't think I had
even launched my podcast yet.
I think it was I was pre-hostfor me.
Um, so I see it very, verydifferently now.
Because somebody said yesterday,I said you should launch a
(04:46):
podcast.
And he said, uh, for the life ofme, I can't imagine why anybody
would want to listen to what Ihave to say.
And I said, Are you kidding me?
So I think that's kind ofuniversal sometimes, you know.
SPEAKER_04 (04:56):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (04:58):
You know, we're too close to our own story.
So it's it seems like it seemsvery mundane to us, but you
know, it's we we're our ownunique fingerprint.
We are the the only ones who getto ride this the way that we
experience it.
SPEAKER_02 (05:17):
Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_03 (05:19):
And being able the reason I used to do that podcast
and that magazine, Beneath YourBeautiful, was just hearing
somebody rising above the thingsthey've gone through can help
somebody else.
And that's why that was soimportant to me, because it's
easy to get stuck when reallyit's our choice to be stuck,
(05:39):
even though it doesn't feel likeit.
SPEAKER_00 (05:41):
Oh, that that begs a question.
I I'm really curious about thetiming because I I know a little
bit about your story, and justknowing how um knowing the the
major beats, like how as a younggirl, you had an an interest in
photography, you pursued itactively, you had your own dark
(06:04):
room, you saved all your moneyfrom your job at the great
American chocolate chip companyto go and and make uh make
everything happen withphotography, but you gave it up
as soon as you crossed thatthreshold into adulthood and
practical and and doing allthat.
So if I'm hearing the timingright, this is after you started
(06:29):
to introduce photographyseriously in your life again.
SPEAKER_03 (06:35):
Um yes.
What happened was, well, yes,I'll give you a little uh try to
do it quickly.
SPEAKER_01 (06:41):
Um okay, we've got time.
SPEAKER_03 (06:42):
Oh, okay.
When I was five and seven, I wastouched inappropriately when I
was younger.
And um, well, that's okay.
I mean, now definitely it'sokay.
Um, but nobody talked about it,even though it was known in my
family.
And at 50 years old, I went to atrauma counselor because a
(07:06):
nutritionist sent me there.
And I was like, you know, Idon't have nothing's wrong, you
know.
But my brother had died of adrug overdose.
My mom died when I was only 18,she was just 46.
Um, I had a lot of traumagrowing up, and I really was a
uh a tumbleweed in life.
I didn't know I had um to takeresponsibility for all the
(07:29):
choices I made.
I felt like life was happeningto me instead of I was
responsible.
And and I finally talked aboutthe trauma, and I finally took
responsibility for all thethings, and it changed my life.
And I learned to love me in thisbody with this whatever
(07:52):
cleverness I have or don't have.
And it was that was that's mymission.
It's not really photography orgraphic design or any of this.
The mission is to help otherpeople not waste any time buried
in their trauma and thinkingthat they can't that they can't
(08:14):
rise above it.
The word is rise above becausewe can all have gone through
hard things, but we don't haveto stay there.
And so once I realized it,that's really what I just hope
for everybody.
So I don't know what your evenquestion was.
SPEAKER_01 (08:31):
No, that's no, I it's it's incredible.
Absolutely beautiful, so wellsaid.
SPEAKER_03 (08:38):
Yeah, that's the that's the passion behind
everything I do, and the passionbehind trying to build a
community in the arts.
Because for me, well, I gotdiagnosed with marginal zone
lymphoma last year, and it's anincurable cancer.
And from last April through thisFebruary, even, I couldn't get
(09:00):
off the couch.
I was just, I lost a year.
And I decided, you know, theonly way to get me out of the
house is to make art, is to havea studio to bring people
together.
And art really does, I think, Imean, it's keeping me alive.
(09:20):
I I have the most loving husbandand lovely children and
siblings, but it's just notenough.
I think art is what makes my mypulse go, you know, it's what um
really just keeps me going.
And so, so I'm trying to build acommunity of like-minded people,
but it's not easy.
And I'm very curious how yourcommunity building is going.
SPEAKER_01 (09:44):
Um, it's not easy.
SPEAKER_03 (09:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (09:47):
It's not easy to, you know, we live in a world
that's so distracted now, andscreens and the busyness
epidemic, and it's hard to getpeople to show up for events.
Um sometimes we do, sometimes wedon't.
Um it is a challenging time.
SPEAKER_00 (10:07):
Well, while it is challenging, the things that you
can see right away are thethings that feed into our own
negativity biases.
And we are reminded at thosetimes that when we're not even
looking for it, that we have aneffect, that there is a lasting,
outstretching ripple that uh hasum it has a a lasting um well,
(10:35):
just a lasting effect with thosethat we touched.
And there are those in our campthat would do anything for us.
They're they're willing to showup for everything.
And I I've I have found thatit's in those moments when we
feel the most despair, when wefeel like everything that we're
doing is falling on deaf ears,uh, we're surprised by those
(10:59):
people who are willing to toshow up and say, you know, pick
me.
I I want to take part.
What can we do next?
SPEAKER_03 (11:06):
It's fascinating, actually, the people that are
sort of on your periphery even,not your not your besties.
So it's very interesting whodoes want to come help and and
be a part of it.
I love I have loved that part ofthis, finding out who who the
dreamers are, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (11:26):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (11:29):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (11:30):
Yeah, but it it can be lonely when we're when you're
in the trenches.
SPEAKER_03 (11:34):
I have I think my life's work is to to really
acknowledge what's meant for meis for me.
Those that don't love me, don'tlove me.
And that's let them, let themnot like me if they don't.
Boy, that is like uh if I haveany work to do, which I have
plenty of work to do, but the Ithink the strongest calling I
(11:56):
feel right now is get the littlelittle Hara inside me um
parented better because she's soinsecure.
And, you know, see me, love me.
And you know, the 57-year-oldwoman's like, it's okay, you are
loved.
(12:17):
But boy, it's a battle.
SPEAKER_01 (12:20):
That that's something I speak about really
frequently because I struggledwith that for for many, many
years.
And it it finally, I finally hadthat aha moment where I realized
that when I stopped trying tofit in, you know, because to fit
in, you have to carve parts ofyourself away, like the square
(12:42):
peg going into a round hole.
I stopped trying to fit in andjust started focusing on being
just who exactly who I was.
And what I found is that reallythat's a polarizer.
It it sends people eitherscreaming and running or they
want to come and sit right nextto me.
(13:03):
And when I realized that most ofthe time the people that
screamed and ran were the peoplethat I wouldn't have wanted to
have in my space anyway.
And the people that wanted tocome and sit right next to me,
for the most part, were thepeople that I was so excited to
have them come and sit rightnext to me.
And and it's it was just such agame changer for me.
(13:24):
It helped me guide the littleboy inside of me.
I did a lot of um inner childwork to just really play and to
be that little boy and to focuson the people that that showed
up and wanted to play with thatlittle boy and to bless and
(13:47):
release the rest.
You know, Dwight was telling meearlier today, we he posted some
video footage of me captured inone of our episodes, whereas I
was on one of my little rants,and I was talking about this
very thing, about the polarizingeffects of authenticity.
And he said, Well, it's gottentwo reactions so far, one thumbs
(14:07):
up and one thumbs down.
And I said, Did the thumbs downmake a comment?
Because curiosity is killing me.
I'd love to know.
It didn't faze me even a littlebit that I got a thumbs down.
Probably not my person, butwould still have loved to have
just been a fly on the wall toknow exactly, you know, what
(14:29):
that was about.
SPEAKER_03 (14:31):
Well, intellectually, I hear you.
I mean, my brain hears you, andmy 57-year-old woman sitting in
front of you hears you, and thelittle girl inside me is like,
but and stomping her foot.
And I'm getting there becauseI'm very aware of it.
So that's very helpful.
And I definitely need some innerchild work.
(14:52):
Somebody just recommended a bookto me, but anyway, I gotta
start, I gotta start playingmore.
SPEAKER_01 (14:57):
Are you familiar with mirror work?
SPEAKER_03 (15:00):
Mm-mm.
Well, I mean, will you just talkto yourself in the mirror?
I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (15:04):
Yeah, you know, I I will pile.
I still do this.
I've done this for decades.
I learned mirror work fromLouise Hay way back in like the
80s.
I'll pile up in my bed with ahand mirror that I have saved
from my days as a salon ownerand hold it pretty close to my
face.
And for a period, I'll juststare into my own eyes.
(15:26):
Complete silence, justconnecting with myself.
And then I'll say whatever Iwant to say, but I always make
sure it's very loving and veryaffirming.
All the things that the littleseven-year-old inside of me
needs to hear, it has beensingle-handedly probably the
best out of all the books, allof the therapy sessions, all of
(15:47):
the workshops, the mirror workhas been the thing that I
continue to do.
The mirror stays between the bedand the nightstand right there.
So I have easy access to itbecause it's such an important
thing to connect with myself andand just yeah, you know, give
myself the same thing I wouldgive Dwight because I love him,
(16:09):
or one of my close friendsbecause I love them, which is my
time and my attention.
SPEAKER_03 (16:16):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (16:17):
It's just really it's really powerful, but it's
really simple.
That's what I love about it.
SPEAKER_00 (16:23):
Herod, do you have any little children in in your
life?
SPEAKER_03 (16:28):
Um, my daughters just are just turned 30 and 26,
and they are the reason Ilearned to love myself.
About a decade ago, I heard mydaughter when she was about 20
say she hated her body.
And I was unlike I couldn'tbelieve it.
(16:48):
She was perfect, you know, she'smy baby.
And I realized at the time shewas mimicking me.
And I thought, well, what ifshe's perfect because she's my
baby?
Well, I was somebody's baby tooonce.
And so then I must be perfect.
And I started talking to myself.
I I really, I really, that wasthe first time I could even say
(17:09):
young Hara or little Harawithout rolling my eyes at
myself.
Um, like because I'm theyoungest of six kids, for some
reason I imagine them beinglike, oh, you know, needy little
Hara.
But but little Hara is veryneedy, and and I'm giving her
all the things she needs now.
(17:31):
So I am very in tune with thislittle girl, and I talk to
myself just so, just like I talkto my kids.
You're perfect, good try, youknow, I love you.
I really do.
At first it was weird, and nowit's just that's how I speak to
myself.
That is what I want for others.
Um, so having that's what Ialways I'm I'm saying that
(17:54):
because I always ask somebody,if you have little kids, then
you'll know how to loveyourself.
Yeah because because if you canjust imagine how you love your
child, how you're justsomebody's child.
SPEAKER_01 (18:04):
It is so simple.
It is so simple.
It's amazing to me how manypeople say, I don't and I don't
know how to do that.
How do I do that?
And I just say, just think ofthe little child that lives
inside of you like a realphysical child that you have,
that you are completelyresponsible for their every
need.
(18:25):
Yeah, every need from physicalfood, water, shelter to
emotional needs to all needs,and just give them what you
would give a real child.
It's not rocket science.
SPEAKER_03 (18:37):
Yeah.
Um, yeah, I don't know why it isso hard to love ourselves.
I I've gained so much the chemo,I gained 30 pounds with the
chemo, but that does not, afterso long, I know that it does not
define who I am.
It has nothing to do with who Iam.
Um, I know my worth period.
(19:01):
It does, it's not based onanything that I ever thought it
used to be based on.
There's no, I am worthy becauseI'm just worthy because I'm, you
know, I'm alive, I'm a person.
Those are the things I wish, Iwish my even my children knew,
but hopefully I'm now teachingthem that instead of I hate my
body because it's not whateversize I think it's supposed to
(19:22):
be.
SPEAKER_01 (19:23):
Teaching it and modeling it for.
SPEAKER_03 (19:25):
Modeling it, definitely.
SPEAKER_01 (19:26):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (19:27):
And so many others need to hear it.
SPEAKER_01 (19:29):
So you you said earlier, you know, this isn't
really about photography or younamed a couple of other things,
you know, it is really aboutbringing people together.
But it seems that everythingyou've done has been rooted in
some form of creativity.
SPEAKER_03 (19:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (19:51):
How can I come to you?
SPEAKER_03 (19:53):
I mean, would you I've been a my mom was a fine
artist, and um, so I guess it'sjust in me, but um, I went
through college and got a degreein advertising, so I've always
been in the creative industry.
I was a graphic designer, I am agraphic designer for since 1990.
And um you're this the what youwere saying about my photography
(20:14):
is when I was in high school,even younger, I always had a
camera.
And I went to I went throughcollege and I got a degree in
advertising and communications,but I still loved photography.
And I went to an ad agency inMiami.
I mean, um, a photo studio inMiami.
I was already working at an adagency, and I was gonna give it
(20:36):
all up and they were gonna takeme on as an apprentice, and I
was so intimidated by lightingthat I just didn't do it.
And then and then at 50 I talkedabout my my childhood sexual
abuse, and then I went to aconference it's so funny that a
(20:59):
conference can do this, but theythe whole weekend they kept
talking about whatever you feelcalled about, you're you have to
do it.
Like it's you're doing God gaveyou that on purpose, whatever
that is calling you.
And that very next weekend, Istarted taking pictures of this
(21:20):
woman because she kept sayinghow she kept complaining about
herself the whole time.
I was with her, and I was like,oh my God, I see your beauty and
you don't see it.
Can I take pictures of you withmy iPhone?
And that sparked photographyagain.
I I took pictures of like, Idon't know, eight people before
I bought a real camera again, ofjust to show them how beautiful
(21:40):
they are.
So I think that's what I bringto it through my art, is I just
want you to be seen because Ithink as the youngest of six, I
don't think I talked till I was15 because my sister talked for
me.
I definitely was invisible.
I have been up to been up to abar counter and been invisible.
(22:06):
And you know, like I can so Ithink that's the passion, is I
want you to feel seen and heard,and that's why the podcast,
that's why the photography Ijust if I can give anything
back, that's what I'm giving,and also I get a lot out of it.
Um, I really enjoy holdingspace, and I I shockingly am
(22:31):
good at it.
I say shockingly because I justthe younger me can't believe
that I do this.
SPEAKER_01 (22:37):
You are you are good for that, and we have that in
common, you know.
As I listen to you talk, I thinkabout that.
Was my whole reason for gettinginto the beauty industry was to
help people just see howbeautiful they really are.
SPEAKER_03 (22:53):
Yeah, is it it's almost like a crime to not love
yourself and to go through life.
Can you imagine somebody on yourdeathbed going, oh, that was a
really nice person, but theyshould have lost 10 pounds.
Nobody's ever gonna say that,nobody's ever gonna think
anything, all the things we'reworried about, nobody else is
caring.
SPEAKER_00 (23:11):
That's right.
SPEAKER_03 (23:13):
I mean, the size of my ass does not dictate whether
my husband likes me or not.
So it doesn't matter.
At this weight, I'm havingplenty of fun.
SPEAKER_00 (23:23):
There you go.
SPEAKER_03 (23:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (23:26):
Yeah, it's it's sad that there's such a machine
that's in place to keep usimprisoned in um so many things
that just don't matter.
I mean, you you've seen it fromthe inside.
SPEAKER_03 (23:39):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I I once didn't go into anevent.
I was all dressed up, I wassitting in the parking lot.
And this was, I mean, probablywell, a lot of pounds ago.
I mean, probably 70 pounds ago.
I didn't go into the eventbecause I felt fat.
I mean, what a crime.
How I mean, no, if I walked intothat event, I can't imagine one
(24:01):
person thinking, oh, there'sHara, but she's fat.
It's so crazy what what we do toourselves.
And so I just don't want towaste another second not
thinking I'm all that becauseI'm the only me, too.
Like I know I'm cool justbecause I exist.
Like there's I bring something,I have a voice that nobody else
(24:21):
has.
That doesn't mean that somebodycan't duplicate it or I'm just
saying there's something specialabout me, as is there is about
everyone.
SPEAKER_00 (24:30):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (24:31):
Yes.
Ah, I you you're just yeah.
Pouring out beautiful words.
I love everything you're saying.
And it is the epitome of who youare.
You know, I've just been aroundyou enough, and I'm just such a
good judge of character and andintuition and feel into people's
hearts.
(24:52):
I know beyond a shadow of adoubt, that's exactly who you
are.
SPEAKER_04 (24:55):
Oh, thank you.
I feel is that like when a doglikes you?
SPEAKER_01 (24:58):
I do, you know, it's reflected in your podcast.
And now all the I, you know, Isee some of the photos you take.
I don't see all of them, but Isee some of them.
And and and it's all about justreally bringing beauty into the
forefront where people noticeit.
It's all around, but bringing itup where people notice it, and
(25:20):
that's that's just amazing.
Tell us a little bit more aboutthe because it's it's been a a
year ago or a little more than ayear ago that you launched Dream
Studio.
SPEAKER_03 (25:32):
Dream Studio just opened in April of this year.
SPEAKER_01 (25:36):
Okay.
I'm off on time just a littlebit.
SPEAKER_03 (25:38):
Well, that's okay.
Last year I got diagnosed withthe cancer, and so I kind of
lost that whole year.
But in April we opened.
So it hasn't been that longthough.
I'm an impatient person and Iwant I want all the things right
this second.
SPEAKER_01 (25:53):
Yep.
I feel that.
Tell us a little bit about themotivation for that and and what
that looks like, what's going onthere in the studio?
Because I get some of youremails and know that there's
you're pulling people togetherfor photography shows and for
different creative things.
Tell it, give us a little bit ofan overview, please.
SPEAKER_03 (26:15):
Um, well, I I've done a few events.
I've done some art events uh inthis in Spokane, they do First
Fridays, which are art shows,and you know, and so we're on
that path that we did three ofthem so far.
And that was fun.
It's just it's a lot of work,and and you know, like I feel
(26:35):
like, you know, I don't know ifyou proud, maybe you know, like
you know how when you didn't getpicked in school, that's how I
every First Friday feels to me.
Every event, every everythingI've ever done feels that way.
That's why I'm saying the littlegirl in me is alive and well and
loud, because she's like, pickme, pick me.
I just watched a TV showyesterday that said something
(26:57):
about don't be a pick me girl.
I'm a pick me girl.
Um, but it's been beautiful.
I brought a lot of creativestogether.
I just had a creative meetup,which was really fun, and there
was a lot of people that camethrough the studio.
I mean, there's there's otherevents that are happening.
I'm getting I'm doing a lightingclass, which is the irony of all
(27:18):
ironies, because I'm trying toshow people that it's not as
hard as you think, and Ishouldn't have waited 30 years
to go to it because it took me30 years, yeah, full circle.
So that's really exciting.
SPEAKER_01 (27:29):
Well, we we also teach what we must need to
learn.
So that makes perfect sense tome.
SPEAKER_03 (27:34):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I love I really do love thatbecause that's what I was so
scared, and really it is notscary at all.
It's just point the point it atsomebody and see what happens.
That's what I think about allart now that I know better.
I'm just trying to have fun.
I can't take anything tooseriously.
It might come out, it might not.
(27:56):
It's you probably probablygonna.
You know, I've no done it enoughto know that it's gonna work
out, but also I'm going into itwith let's see what happens.
Right.
So there's no fear that way.
SPEAKER_00 (28:09):
Yeah, you you never know if you don't try.
Or I guess the other way offraming that is it'll it'll
never work if you don't try.
SPEAKER_03 (28:19):
And I think it's okay to the word isn't fail, but
to create something that youdon't like, toss it and try
again.
Like it is not the end of theworld to make art that is not
what you hoped it would be.
But it we have this such a fearof, well, I can't, I'm not
creative.
That's just I just that'sanother thing that really I hope
(28:43):
we can let go of because for me,the joy of creating is as much
as the final product.
There's such a pleasure.
SPEAKER_00 (28:52):
Yeah, unfortunately, I I think that there's there are
too many dark forces that gainfrom people having uh a very
fixed mentality where it's it'sa coin flip.
It's you win or you lose.
But in reality, if we try tosustain an infinite gain, even
(29:16):
that coin flip when you'relearning something is well, I
mean, that's just it.
You're either you either getlucky or if when it doesn't work
out, you learn something alittle bit more.
That's how you acquire skills,it's how you sharpen the saw.
SPEAKER_03 (29:35):
Right.
I I think that's true too.
I'm learning that too aboutpeople.
Like every time somethinghappens, it's like, okay, that
person's a lesson for me.
I'm not sure if I know what thelesson is this minute, but I
know it's something I'm supposedto learn.
And you know, I'm really,really, really working hard to
(29:55):
not take things personally.
I mean, if I'm on my deathbedand I'm still saying that, I
didn't succeed, but I'm workingon it.
That's the hardest one for me.
SPEAKER_01 (30:05):
I think that's hard for all of us.
I it all feels personal, doesn'tit?
Yeah, it does.
Yeah, I just have to really stepback sometimes and say, okay,
you know, people didn't plot tohurt you by not showing up at
your event or whatever the thingis.
SPEAKER_03 (30:22):
100%.
They're not even.
Been thinking about you at all.
Like they have forgotten thatthere was an event.
I totally know this.
Like, my I guess what I'msaying.
Like the 57-year-old is totallyfine.
She's just having to calm downthe five-year-old, you know,
there, there.
SPEAKER_01 (30:38):
Exactly.
You know, I I think the there'sI'm I'm wondering if there's
something more.
Your your story about walkingaway from photography because
you didn't think they wereintimidated by the lighting.
And we all have something likethis.
Um is there more that we coulddive into that?
(31:02):
Because I think that's somethingthat is kind of universal and
creative.
I know for me, when my fatherdied in 2012, I had been saying
one of these days, one of thesedays, I'm going to take painting
lessons.
And he died.
I got that slap of mortality inthe face, and I started taking
classes and painting.
And I painted for five, sixyears, maybe seven, I don't
(31:24):
remember.
And then I put it down.
And I haven't touched it now inabout seven years.
And about, I don't know, threemonths ago, I decided I wanted
to paint again.
And I've been creative all mylife.
And most of the creativeendeavors that I took on, I was
able to create things that wereworthwhile, you know, whether it
(31:46):
was decorating the house forChristmas, whether it was baking
something or cooking somewonderful creation or hair color
and haircuts and makeup on myabsolutely fabulous clientele.
I did photography for a numberof years as a hobby and even
(32:06):
shot professionally for a coupleof years.
That was a mistake, but ruinedit for me.
But for me, most of the thingsthat I've gone into creatively
have kind of come rather easy tome.
I I do remember photography thatin the beginning, just I just
wasn't getting it.
(32:27):
You know, I was studying, I wasreading, I was playing with the
camera and all these settingsand what they do, and and it
wasn't clicking.
And I just kind of kept beingpatient and kept studying.
And one day it was just like allof a sudden it made sense.
Well, I'm in that right now withmy painting.
Yes, I've acquired a few skills,and I can paint a thing or two
(32:52):
here or there that kind of lookdecent, but there's some aspect
of it that just hasn't quiteclicked yet.
I just don't, I it just hasn'tclicked.
SPEAKER_00 (33:03):
And part of it is that you carry around with you
your own harshest critic.
You you carry one of the thingsthat you gain from that 40-year
beauty professional career isthat you always aspire for
perfection the first timearound.
SPEAKER_01 (33:21):
Well, you know, you don't get a second time once
you've cut their hair off, it'scut, you know.
You you you only get one chanceto do that color and that cut
right.
Because if you fuck it up, it'salmost impossible to come back
from that.
SPEAKER_03 (33:38):
And I appreciate perfectionism in hairdressers.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (33:42):
Yes, yes.
And that's been probably part ofthe hardest thing to overcome
because everything, most of whatI've done had a very specific
end game.
I knew what I wanted it to looklike before I even started.
And I, when I started painting,I thought, I don't want that.
I I I just want to start and letit take me on a journey, not
(34:05):
knowing where the end place isgoing to be.
But boy, the way my mind worksis just struggling with that.
Um, so I think that there's forall of us, it doesn't matter
what stage of our creativejourney we're in, we hit walls
from time to time.
(34:25):
And you have a story of how youjust charged and you know mowed
that wall down.
Now you're teaching thelighting.
SPEAKER_03 (34:39):
I found out it's ADHD.
I have no impulse control.
That's what I think the uhmowing things down is.
I just I am a throw shit at thewall and see if it'll stick kind
of girl.
I'm not very uh I'm not figuringout the steps to get there.
I'm just gonna try it and seewhat works.
SPEAKER_01 (35:01):
You're you're not a strategist.
You're not you're not astrategic.
SPEAKER_03 (35:04):
There's no strategy in this this brain.
There's all creative.
There's all I'm tilted.
There's a whole left side of methat's empty.
It's very hard to go throughlife this way, actually.
Um, especially with my husbandwho's extremely the opposite,
(35:24):
very organized, knows.
I mean, I have to ask him whereeverything is.
It's so cute.
SPEAKER_00 (35:29):
Oh, well, that that's one way of achieving
balance.
SPEAKER_03 (35:32):
It's nice to have them.
Yeah, oh yes, it's very good,actually.
Um well for me, the lightingthing was my sister, the closest
sister to me, we were one personwhen we were little.
I mentioned that she talked forme.
We were we weren't separate.
(35:53):
Um, but she was the smart one.
She was in the gifted, and I wasnot.
I was in remedial math.
You know, I just was not her.
And I believed the lie I toldmyself that I was stupid.
Um, I truly, which is so strangebecause I learned how to use a
computer, but for some reasonthe lighting, and like you're
saying, the camera isintimidating.
(36:15):
Um so I just was sure that wasnot my path.
And then, and then right when Istarted, it was right before
COVID, and COVID hit, and sothen I did, oh, I'm gonna try a
self-portrait series, whichlasted 60 days.
It wasn't meant to be 60 days,but it was 60 days of me
(36:37):
practicing lighting, a verypatient model, uh, me, and um I
found out it wasn't as hard as Ithought it was.
So, I mean, I got really luckywith COVID and this
self-portrait series, and I I Iknow so many photographers that
are like, well, I don't dolighting, I'm a natural light
photographer because they'rescared.
(36:58):
And so that's the the lightingclass is lighting made simple,
you know, a hands-on approachbecause it's truly so simple and
it it adds so much to the image.
You know, you're you don'tyou're not dictated by the
light, you're you're creatingwith light.
SPEAKER_01 (37:15):
Yes, you're painting with light.
SPEAKER_03 (37:16):
You're painting with light.
You are the master of whathappens in that picture.
SPEAKER_01 (37:21):
It is something you have to master for sure, but I
always felt like when I wasdoing photography, it you know,
when you're working with naturallight, you're at the mercy of
the weather, the time of theday, short seasons when it stays
dark later in the morning andgets dark earlier in the
evening.
Yeah, it plays havoc with youryour whole creative uh journey.
(37:46):
And and to be able to manipulateartificial light gives you an
insane amount of freedom.
SPEAKER_03 (37:54):
But but I think the the thing is you don't have to
master it, you just have to playwith it.
And I think that's what you haveto learn about your painting.
And what we all have to keep inmind is that nobody's an expert.
I just talked to somebody whoworks on worked on films in LA,
and the sound guy who gets paid,she said, as much as she made
(38:16):
all year on that one project,um, would say, Oh, I don't know,
let me go look that up.
Like, just you don't have toknow everything.
And every, even he's gettingpaid so much and he doesn't know
everything, and he's not evenpretending he knows everything.
I think we I that's what likeevery photo shoot, a paid one or
(38:39):
a play one, I'm still going intoit with the emotion of I'm gonna
have fun, I'm gonna play, I hopeit works out.
Like I said, it usually does,but but because I've taken all
the pressure off of me, now I'mgonna have fun no matter what.
SPEAKER_01 (38:54):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (38:55):
And now it's art again and it's not a stress.
Because what what the point,what's the point of even doing
it if I'm not having fun?
SPEAKER_00 (39:04):
What a gift you give to yourself.
SPEAKER_03 (39:06):
Yeah, I'm very generous.
I think if people could hear theold inner critic and this this
new sweet person that chats withme, they'd be like, ah, you
know, like when people are so inlove and they're gooey.
That's what I'm like withmyself.
I'm just so very kind.
SPEAKER_01 (39:26):
I like that a lot.
SPEAKER_03 (39:28):
Yeah, me too.
SPEAKER_01 (39:29):
Very much the whole world could use a an extra dose
of that.
SPEAKER_03 (39:33):
Yeah, yeah.
I wish it for them.
I really do.
SPEAKER_01 (39:39):
That's beautiful.
Well, what's what's next?
SPEAKER_03 (39:44):
Well, well, um, I I think until I die, until I die,
I'm gonna make art in whateverform that it takes.
Um I mean, I'm not activelydying, but I do have incurable
cancer, and I have chosen not todo chemo again because it kind
(40:09):
of stole a year from me.
And with incurable cancer, it'lljust be like, that doesn't sound
like a good idea to do it againand again and again and again,
lose years when I could.
I'm already 57, I only have somany left.
So I'm just gonna live out loudand and make art.
This is what I wrote the otherday.
I had a I had the creativemeetup here, and we had to write
(40:31):
our dreams up on the board.
And all I wrote was make loveand make art.
So if I die doing those twothings, I'll be good.
I have had the love of my life.
I have the love of my life.
I am so lucky.
I was miserably miserable inlove for 45 years, and then I
met my husband.
(40:52):
And so for the last 11 years,I've been so lucky and feel very
okay with whatever happens,happens.
That's also a lovely place tobe.
SPEAKER_01 (41:07):
You know, I can I can literally feel that peace.
SPEAKER_03 (41:11):
Yeah, totally.
SPEAKER_01 (41:12):
I can I can feel it.
You've made peace with what'sgoing on, and you're just gonna
make the absolute friggin' bestat it.
SPEAKER_03 (41:20):
Yeah, yeah.
I'm not sad about anything.
I'm not like it's not morose atall.
I think I I wish that foreverybody too, to be at peace
with the ending that is destinedfor you.
You just don't know when.
The people the fact that peopleare scared of death too is a
fascinating thing.
Um, but I just feel very atpeace with all of it.
(41:45):
And I feel I'm so lucky to havebeen loved so well by my
husband.
And people that have graced mycamera lens have just, I love
making art.
I love the beauty in everybody,and I appreciate that they let
me shoot them, you know,photograph them.
SPEAKER_01 (42:03):
It's a real special thing to be allowed to come into
somebody's world, isn't it?
SPEAKER_03 (42:08):
I think so.
I think that with the podcasttoo, you know, you know that you
know, you get intimate.
You almost feel like it's sointimate, we must be best
friends.
And then you have to realizeyou're not, you're just for that
moment.
But that's okay too.
That once you get that, thatit's nice to have that moment
with somebody.
SPEAKER_01 (42:25):
Well, and knowing that, you know, at any time you
could recreate that moment.
I believe that I could reach outto any person that's on the
podcast and say, can we connect?
And and it would be a mostlikely a resounding yes.
SPEAKER_03 (42:41):
Yes, I feel that way too.
It's it is a beautifulexperience.
I love that people are willingto open up at all, and
especially in these ways.
You know, a lot of models askme, a lot of people ask me,
well, what should I wear?
Or what do you what's yourconcept?
And I'm like, what do you wantto wear?
What's your concept?
I mean, it I don't even think ithas anything to do with me.
(43:03):
I mean, I am bringing artistryto it, but generally I feel like
I'm pointing the camera at youand you're doing everything.
You're the art, you are whatwe're trying to capture.
It doesn't really have anythingto do with my vision of you
because I don't know you, evenif I know you.
Like, what do you want people tothink about you?
What do you want to portray?
(43:25):
So I I really love thecollaborative process of
photography.
Because it's not about me.
I do enjoy it, I love the art ofit, but it's about the person
and how do they want to berepresented.
SPEAKER_01 (43:40):
Yeah, holding space for them to really show up so
you capture the who they reallyare.
SPEAKER_03 (43:48):
Right.
Yeah.
Well, recently I I had somebodyupset with me and I said that,
you know, while I'm a safespace, somebody pointed out the
difference between holding spaceand being a safe space.
And I'll share that with youbecause I think it's fascinating
because I didn't realize thedifference.
(44:09):
I mean, I don't know if you do,but I just I just love this idea
because it was a good lesson forme.
Well, I'm like, but I'm a safespace.
And he said, How can you be asafe space for everybody?
Because if you're in the BlackPanthers, the KKK is not a safe
space for you.
And I was like, Oh, oh, yeah,like, okay.
(44:34):
Though so that's just anotherlesson of those who love me or
feel safe around me, love me andfeel safe around me.
And those who don't, don't, andthat's okay, let them, let them.
That's a hard one.
Um, but somebody came into thecreative meeting, she didn't
know anybody, she was veryemotional, she started to cry,
(44:55):
and I held her, I hugged her andheld her for a little bit.
And she wrote recently, shewrote afterwards, um, thank you
for holding space for me.
And I was like, that's what Ican do.
I can hold space, but I can't bea safe space for everyone.
And I love that lesson.
That was just recently.
Isn't that a really good way oflooking at it?
SPEAKER_01 (45:14):
It is.
We we got exposed to somethingsimilar to that probably maybe
about a almost two years agowhen, you know, because we we
host events and and we we wewould say, you know, this is
we've that we've created a safecontainer, and and and we were
taught, and and we really,really fully get it, that we
don't have that ability.
SPEAKER_04 (45:35):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (45:36):
We just don't have the ability to create a safe
container for others.
We have the ability to holdspace and then ask them if they
will collectively create a safecontainer, yeah, and get their
buy-in.
And we do that with every eventthat we we lead.
And it's amazing what that youcan feel a shift in energy in
(46:01):
the room when everybody hasraised their hand to agree that
they will do everything in theirpower to hold the space as
sacred space and make it safefor everybody.
There's just this collectivekind of like, ah, exhale.
SPEAKER_04 (46:17):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (46:17):
And it just, and then everybody gets really,
really real, really open, andum, it does create a what we
call people magic.
SPEAKER_03 (46:27):
I love that.
Do you find that people are,especially artists?
I mean, I'm not sure what Ithink about this, but do you
find that people are constantlyin competition rather than
collaboration?
I'm not sure what I think aboutthat, but I I have a feeling
that there's that, that's aproblem.
SPEAKER_00 (46:48):
I think that's what's modeled in the West.
And uh it's something that's avery there's a very strong
pressure to have that be howpeople are are steered.
But it's overcome because uhthere are a lot of uh famous
(47:09):
anthropological studies wherethey go into places where they
haven't been corrupted by uh uhour commercial practices, and
it's very easy for um for thechildren to play infinite games
where there's not someone thatwins or loses, but the idea is
(47:32):
to just keep playing, and theywould go on forever.
SPEAKER_03 (47:38):
My sister and I actually, she's in Boston.
We play Catan in our Oculus andour and you know what I'm
talking about, a quest of VRheadset.
SPEAKER_02 (47:47):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_03 (47:47):
And it's a game of chance, so but we just play,
well, we'll play one more, we'llplay one more, we'll play one
more until you know 10 gameshave gone by.
But it's that same thing.
You're gonna win at some pointbecause it's it's a game of
chance.
It's not like you're better thanthe next person or smarter or
anything.
So that's the competitiveness isgone.
It's just like, let's see whathappens this time.
But it's very uh joyful to play.
(48:10):
I love I do like infinite games.
SPEAKER_01 (48:14):
You know, I I would say that in all of our because
we're very involved in the artscommunity locally, we go to a
lot of stuff, we host thisstuff, we have all these guests
on the podcast, and I would saywe don't come across very many
creatives that are talking upcompetitive energy.
Yeah, most of it's morecollaboration.
(48:37):
I can recall one very specificconversation where somebody, you
know, had an experience ofsomebody kind of like stealing
her idea and you know, likeliterally looking at some of her
paintings and then going andrecreating them and doing better
with them than she did withthem.
And so she is very like closedoff.
(49:00):
She doesn't want to have contactwith other creatives, and she's
very solo and very isolated andvery, very fearful.
SPEAKER_00 (49:08):
Yeah, she misses out, I think.
I mean, like you said, she'sfearful, but she's so alone,
like she's really on an island.
SPEAKER_01 (49:18):
You know, to have one experience like that and to
take that experience anddetermine that everybody is like
that is is um it's a real saddecision to make to decide that
you, you know, you had oneperson did you dirty, and now
(49:38):
you know, everybody is likethat.
And that's kind of a humancondition.
We tend to do that sometimes.
We label people and put them allin a box once we've you know had
one person of that type,whatever, do us do us wrong.
SPEAKER_03 (49:54):
Um but well, and also I feel like the person who
maybe maybe did wrong or maybedidn't because did she own art?
I don't know.
That's a thing, that's a wholenother thing.
But um, but to be like for thatone act to then be that person
for the rest of her life.
You know what I mean?
(50:14):
Like, I feel like we were justtalking about that I can think
something, write it down, andthen no longer think it because
it's outside of me.
Like I'm not even my thoughtsthat I had a minute ago
sometimes.
So to be like, you know, thatshe did that five months ago.
Like I'm I'm not the person fivemonths ago.
I'm not even the person I was athought a minute a minute ago.
SPEAKER_00 (50:36):
That's right.
We know that's a good thing.
SPEAKER_03 (50:37):
So we have to just totally give ourselves, give
each other grace too, because wecan't even be held responsible
for our own thoughts the minutewe think it, because we the
minute we let it go, sometimesit's not even true anymore.
SPEAKER_01 (50:50):
Yeah.
That's that's a valid point.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (50:54):
Yeah.
Well, because you can't, yeah, Idon't want to be held
responsible.
SPEAKER_01 (50:59):
You know, I I think maybe we don't attract much of
that because we speak so muchabout community and about
collaboration and co-elevation.
And yeah.
So we kind of that polarizingthing that we send those those
competitive people, they just goaway because, you know, we're
not speaking their language.
SPEAKER_03 (51:18):
I'm just in a community of, and I don't know
if this is true, is why uh thequestion was genuine.
I'm in a community ofphotographers who are all buying
for the same clients, I think.
It's a small community and a lotof photographers.
And so that's what made me thinkthat.
But my creative meetup, I had afilm director here and I had an
actress here who had never met,and she auditioned for her.
(51:41):
And anyway, that that's soexciting.
That's the whole idea.
Like I I made that happen justby creating the space for it to
happen.
And that I feel like there,that's what if that's all that
ever came out of all the thingsI've ever done, that's so cool.
Because that's the whole idea.
SPEAKER_01 (51:59):
That's what I call my happy place.
SPEAKER_03 (52:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (52:01):
Yeah.
You know, when we bring peopletogether and we see what happens
with the connections, um, thatthat really's my happy place.
unknown (52:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (52:12):
As you as you speak about that competitive
atmosphere, I'm reminded of theold proverb about the long
spoons.
You know, the spoon, so the waythat it's set up, you have these
people that are uh around a bigbowl of soup and they only have
really long spoons.
(52:33):
And the spoons are impossiblylong, so long that they can't
feed themselves the spoons.
But the only way that they canall eat is if they can serve
each other with the spoons.
SPEAKER_04 (52:46):
I love that.
Yeah.
unknown (52:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (52:50):
That's so beautiful.
There's a great visual of thator a short video that floated
around on Facebook uh a fewyears back that was just
amazing.
You know, illustrated, you know,the people scooping out with
these really long spoons, andthey couldn't get it to their
own mouth.
So they finally figured out thatthey would just feed each other.
It was beautiful.
SPEAKER_03 (53:09):
Yeah, that is beautiful.
Well, I'm hoping to to buildsomething here.
Um, you asked me, I guess youasked me what the future holds,
and the future holds, we'll see.
I don't know.
I don't know how long the futureis, I don't know what this space
will be.
I don't know if it'll all workout, but it always all works
(53:31):
out, just maybe not the way Ihave envisioned in my head.
So, so I'm open.
SPEAKER_01 (53:38):
Yeah.
No, it's kind of like mespreading paint on the canvas
and seeing where it takes me.
SPEAKER_03 (53:44):
Yeah.
Have you ever written somethingthe same way?
Like I've written a story whereI'm as excited as somebody who
might ever read it to find outwhat's gonna happen.
You know, I don't know.
I don't know, I don't know theend.
I don't know when a painting isthe same way as you.
I'm like, let's just see whathappens.
I feel the same way about it'sexciting to see what happens.
(54:05):
It is, and like the person whodid not know where she was going
in Italy, and I went to Franceonce too, and I didn't know.
I loved the I love not knowing.
SPEAKER_00 (54:15):
Well, it's it's all fun and games until you come
across the the wrong bordercheckpoint.
SPEAKER_03 (54:21):
Oh, well, I have people in charge.
My sister knew everything.
I did I wasn't I wasn't worriedabout, yeah, no, everything was
planned to the I don't know howwe're so different, but she knew
everything.
It was on a spreadsheet, evenyuck.
unknown (54:35):
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (54:36):
Wow, they all are different as night and day,
aren't you?
SPEAKER_03 (54:38):
Yes, yes.
I don't know how, right, she wasthe smart one.
SPEAKER_01 (54:42):
Well, we have one question that we ask every guest
toward the end of of theepisode.
And um, so here we go.
In your current creative life,what is the biggest pain point?
That challenge that if it weresolved would be a game changer
(55:05):
for your creative journey.
SPEAKER_03 (55:14):
I mean, I think I have it solved by not taking it
too seriously.
Like, I'm not holding myself tothere's no pain point because
I'm just playing.
But I think if I can answer thequestion in the way that if
there's a pain point in my lifein terms of like everything I
do, it would be just reallybuilding a community.
(55:39):
And and also then I think isthat the solution?
Will that will that changeeverything?
I don't even know.
You know, like you're sayingthat the people who don't like
you, then are they even thepeople you would want to be
around?
Like I want to build thiscommunity, but then will that
change anything?
I don't know.
So I'm open to it and I'mtrying, and we'll see.
(56:03):
But I don't think there'sanything that needs to happen to
change anything for me.
Oh, am I the only one who eversaid that?
SPEAKER_00 (56:13):
Well, it's it's a beautiful thing.
And oh, you know, you're you'retalking to uh the connections
and community guys, so we're alittle biased.
And uh we uh I hate to speak forMaddox, but we we love your
answer.
SPEAKER_03 (56:29):
Oh, good, good.
Well, I it's true.
I really can't even think ofanything because if if you're
just playing, if you're ifyou're willing to fail or the
project, you know, not with anypressure on yourself, there's
nothing, there's no pain point.
SPEAKER_01 (56:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (56:44):
I can't even think of anything.
SPEAKER_01 (56:46):
Yeah, nobody's nobody said that, Aaron.
SPEAKER_03 (56:49):
But also, because I'm we're all gonna die.
SPEAKER_01 (56:52):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (56:52):
Not in a bad way.
We're all just wasting timeworrying about things that
aren't to worry about.
SPEAKER_01 (56:59):
Well, you know, I for many years I've tried to,
you know, when I get too overlyworried about something, I will
project myself out to the veryend of my life.
Imagine that I'm about to takemy last few breaths.
And I ask myself, is thissomething that you'll be worried
about when you're about to takeyour last breath?
And if the answer is no, thenwhy are you worried about it
(57:22):
now?
SPEAKER_03 (57:23):
I don't think that's morose.
I think that's brilliant.
I think we should all be doingthat because it's really true.
We're holding on to things thatdo not matter.
Right.
Or like think about somebodywho's written something stupid
on Facebook and then that'stheir last post.
I'm just saying any moment canbe our last, and we just have
(57:45):
to.
My mom passed away when I was18.
So I always thought she was 46.
I always thought I was gonna dieat 46.
And so I've kind of been livingthat way anyway.
Yes, like just, you know, uhcould die any minute.
And now I'm 57.
I didn't die at 46, luckily.
So every day is already a gift.
I just I really don't want towaste any of them.
(58:07):
There's so few.
SPEAKER_00 (58:09):
Yeah, you you have to love fate.
And I'm I'm reminded of uh anice story I came across where
there was someone who was at thethe horri horribly um old age of
30, I believe it was.
And just feeling like it was allover, they were all washed up,
(58:31):
that was the end.
And someone had the kindness touh have them think about what it
would be like for the90-year-old version of
themselves to think about howevery day that they had up and
you know, that followed was morethan a second chance because you
(58:55):
know they uh they got to reallyseize the day uh for another 60
years.
And what a gift is that.
SPEAKER_04 (59:06):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (59:08):
When I hear somebody that's getting ready to turn 30
talking about their life isover, I have literally said to
them, don't make me bitch slapyou.
SPEAKER_03 (59:20):
Yes, it's it is annoying, it's really annoying.
Little do they know, but that'sokay.
We didn't know either at 30.
SPEAKER_01 (59:29):
Yeah, but I don't remember thinking my life was
over at 30.
SPEAKER_03 (59:32):
I don't either.
But we maybe we're from adifferent time.
SPEAKER_01 (59:37):
We were, yeah, we are.
SPEAKER_03 (59:38):
You know, they have everything.
I do feel sorry for them, the30-year-olds in particular,
because social media, while ithas been very good, they can
look anything up, they can knowanything they want to know.
They've also been thrust intothis world of comparison and the
highlight reel of everybody'slife rather than reality.
(01:00:01):
And it must, I mean, I do thinkit weighs differently on them.
You know, it can.
Yeah, I imagine it would becauseyou know, when I was young, you
only had it in your head whatwas happening, and now you can
actually see it.
And if it's just the highlightreel, I mean, I've been going
(01:00:22):
through um foreclosure.
On my house, and somebodysaying, Oh, I'm so glad to see
you're doing so well.
Because I was self-promoting,and they, you know, the truth
was my house was in foreclosure,but you only know the highlight
reel.
So social media, while it'swonderful, it is not the whole
picture.
And we and the youngergeneration is just has to be is
(01:00:46):
just in it, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (01:00:47):
Yeah, they don't really get that it's not the
whole picture.
SPEAKER_03 (01:00:50):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (01:00:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well said.
Well, this has been amazing.
SPEAKER_03 (01:00:56):
It's been lovely.
Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_01 (01:00:58):
I have I have loved this.
Thank you so much for um beingjust so open with what's going
on with you.
You know, it's it couldn't be aneasy thing to talk about, yet
you you you made it feel very,very easy.
Like I really do sense your yourlevel of peace.
(01:01:19):
And that in and of itself, thatenergy that you have left in
this space right now will be agift to every listener.
SPEAKER_03 (01:01:27):
Thank you.
I do I am very much at peace,which is you know, what a
blessing.
Just can't even imagine, youknow, my 30-year-old self whose
life was over.
No, I'm just kidding.
But, you know, I did go througha divorce in my early 30s and I
had two young kids, and it it iscan be overwhelming.
(01:01:47):
And so it's nice to remember topay attention to the sunsets and
the way the light's hittingsomething, and you know, just
take in all the little momentsbecause dream anyway.
What else is there?
SPEAKER_01 (01:01:59):
Yeah, exactly.
Well, thank you so much.
SPEAKER_03 (01:02:04):
Thank you.
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