December 22, 2025 • 67 mins
What happens when a meticulous planner meets a canvas that refuses to obey? We sit down with painter and creative director Ross von Rosenberg to unpack a bold shift from figurative storytelling to geometric abstraction—and the moment a red painting revealed the truth he was trying to control. Ross takes us inside the push and pull between precision and spontaneity, how tape lines and millimeter decisions became a language for feeling, and why the work started as a design exercise but turned into an emotional map of a life under pressure.
The conversation dives into the realities behind the art: pandemic uncertainty, a vulnerable IVF journey, and the arrival of his son via gestational surrogacy. Ross explains how fatherhood compressed time and sharpened intention, why short, focused sprints replaced long, meandering sessions, and how presence became more valuable than perfection. We also tackle the art-business puzzle—painting what sells versus painting what insists on being born—and Ross’s nuanced advice to younger creatives about betting on their craft before chasing corporate safety.
Threaded through it all is a thesis about becoming. Ross shares an “I am becoming” statement that names his next chapter: taking a smart leap of faith, trusting the work, and building safety from the inside out. Expect practical insights on process, career, and community, and a reminder that what you focus on expands—fear, or the art that wants to be made. If you’re navigating risk, craving more authenticity, or searching for the courage to step onto the invisible bridge, this one will meet you where you are and nudge you forward.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:58):
I am exerting control over the one thing, but
even that is like fightingagainst me in a way of saying,
like, you can only control somuch, allow the chaos to happen,
you know, um, allow some of thespontaneity and you know, stop
fighting against it so much.
(01:19):
So it was about like halfway,but it was that particular
painting where it was like, Ireally realized these were
coming from a what had startedout with these ones on wood,
were like I said, very formal,like, and just kind of like I
was I was doing it almost adesign, a purely aesthetic
project.
And then these, like I thenrealized I was like they were
(01:40):
deeply emotional.
Um, but it it took a whilethere.
It just kind of like I said, itwas kind of a it was kind of a
light bulb going off.
SPEAKER_02 (01:59):
Hey there.
Welcome to For the Love ofCreatives Podcast.
I'm Maddox and I'm here withDwight.
Hello, my co-host.
Today, our guest is Ross vonRosenberg.
Ross, welcome to the podcast.
We're so glad to have you here.
SPEAKER_01 (02:18):
Thank you, Maddox and Dwight.
I couldn't be happier to behere.
SPEAKER_02 (02:22):
Yes, we we had a fumble up the last time he had
an appointment to record this.
We uh got a little distractedand missed our own appointment.
So this is take two, and wethank you so much for uh your
grace and patience.
Um, I'm gonna turn it over toyou, Ross, and let you tell our
listeners who you are and whatyou're about.
SPEAKER_01 (02:43):
Okay.
Yeah, thank you.
Um, yeah, so yeah, my name'sRasman Rosenberg.
Um I'm I live in East Dallas,uh, and I'm I'm an artist.
I've lifelong been an artist.
I would even say at this point,I'm really a creative is a
better description.
Like my primary mode is ispainting, but uh I've worked in
(03:06):
photography, graphic design, Istill work in graphic design,
um, collage.
I even write on occasion, uh,although I've never really
published anything.
But um I'm a person that Ireally like to consider myself
as a creative to be an explorer.
Um my interests as an artisttend to be a little bit kind of
(03:32):
more 30,000 foot view above whatare kind of more of the um the
kind of like day-to-day earthlyconcerns, I guess, or whatnot.
It's like I'm more kind ofthinking about the bigger when
I'm when I'm dealing with humansand human emotions, I'm thinking
a little bit more of but broadlyof like the universalistic, the
(03:54):
universal quality of the humanexperience.
And so that's kind of what I'minterested in.
But then I'm also justinterested in expression for its
own sake.
Um, and I think anybody who seesmy my work or like goes to my
website, like they'll see thatlike where I was at one time is
like I am now in totally adifferent place, and I hope to
(04:15):
win I'm 60 to be in a differentplace and 70 and so on.
So um, you know, the finishedproducts are great, um, but the
journey is a big a big part.
SPEAKER_02 (04:27):
So isn't it beautiful that we get to go
through that metamorphosis asmany times as we like, and a few
times when we don't like.
SPEAKER_03 (04:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (04:37):
Yes, we change throughout our lives, and isn't
it grand that that's the case?
I don't understand people thatdon't like change.
SPEAKER_00 (04:44):
Well, sometimes it's a little hard when you're you're
close to it.
I mean, it's we're we're told insome of the the ancient
traditions that we have to findthe gift in everything.
But it can be really hard whenyou're in the middle of it.
SPEAKER_01 (04:59):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, and that's the thing.
And when you're in the middle ofit, I feel like sometimes it's
like you don't even, it's noteven that you don't even realize
it, but you maybe don't evenrealize how whatever it is is
kind of exerting its power ontoyou.
And then when you step back,you're like, why did I why did I
make these decisions to createthis?
(05:21):
And then it all of a sudden it'slike some a light bulb goes off,
and you go, oh, this is what wasit, this is what I was reacting
to, you know.
Um it's like the most recent,like the the show y'all, y'all
came to those those abstractpieces.
I didn't I didn't realize at thetime, but like I was reacting
to, and I think I mentioned thisin the artist talk, I was
(05:43):
reacting to feeling out ofcontrol about so many things in
my life, with like my time, umuh, you know, time versus career
versus all these things.
And I was like basicallyexerting control on the canvas
within an inch of its life.
I was like, I'm going to controlthese things, but then you can
(06:05):
see the tension of what I wascreating fighting back against
me a little bit.
And it wasn't until like I washalfway through those I kind of
just realized, I'm like, oh, Iknow what's happening here.
And it's interesting because Ithink a lot of people don't
always necessarily think ofabstract colors and shapes and
brushstrokes as like human andemotional, you know.
(06:29):
It people kind of think of itmore as as a aesthetic and
decorative, and it's just like,no, it came from a very, very
like deep place that I didn'trealize was happening at the
time.
SPEAKER_02 (06:41):
It is very deep.
And just and because it'sabstract, it doesn't have any
any bearing on it.
I, you know, I think it'sinteresting because you're
describing realizing howrepresentational it is of your
life after you you work on thepiece, after you paint the
piece.
And I I'm a baby artist, I'm anewer artist, I haven't been
(07:05):
painting for a long time, and Iam finding the same thing.
I listened to artists talkabout, you know, I was going
through this, and so I sat downand poured it all out on canvas
or poured it out in whatevermedium they're working in.
And I just can't relate to thatat all.
I mean, I hear it, but for me,when I paint, it's just my
(07:29):
seven-year-old smearing prettycolors on a surface.
Yeah.
It's just, it's just fun.
I'm just playing.
But then, like you, afterward,I've been reflecting recently.
I've I've been I've I painted alittle bit, dabbled a little bit
a few years ago, but now it'smaybe been five or six months
that I'm actively painting.
(07:49):
Yeah.
And I I sat last week or two, Idon't know, two couple of weeks
and really looked at the piecesthat I've painted.
And I I could see a theme.
I could see how they correlatedto what was going on inside of
me at the time I painted them.
And it was like I had neverheard anybody describing it like
(08:11):
that.
Everybody else, all the artiststhat I had heard talk about it,
it was always this pre-thoughtthing, you know.
Yeah, I'm grieving, so I'm gonnapour my grief out onto the
canvas.
And to, you know, me, I'mthinking, gee, I'm not sure I'm
a real artist because all I'mdoing is just smearing pretty
colors on the canvas.
But when I had that moment whenI could look back and realize
(08:31):
how representational it was,some parts of them were
reputational, what I'verepresentational for what I was
going through in the moment.
And then there's this overalltheme.
You can see aspects of me on anongoing basis in there.
It's like yes, and it's it'sit's been I would, and and this
(08:57):
I'm leading it, I'm long leadwayinto a question, but yeah, um
it's been really fabulous torealize that it was connected to
me in a deeper level than Ithought it was.
SPEAKER_03 (09:08):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (09:09):
And so I'm wondering how long you had to paint,
because you because you discoverthat it's after the painting
too.
You know, it's like you lookback and you go, Oh, how long
did you have to paint before youhad that awareness?
Or maybe you had it right away,or uh tell me a little story
about how that unfolded, please.
SPEAKER_01 (09:30):
Yeah, no, it's interesting because um, and and
it's like, yeah, it's like y'allshow y'all saw my show on Art on
Art on Maine.
There was the the older workthat was more figurative and
stuff, you know, and had likeyou know, human figures, and it
was a little bit moresurrealistic and stuff.
So it's like it's reallyinteresting.
I first kind of made, I made aconscious transition because I
(09:53):
am very in a way calculated asan artist.
I do a lot of planning, youknow, I have a lot of doodles
and stuff, and I really thinkabout particularly prior when I
was doing more representationalwork.
It's like you're showing people,like I'm thinking about what's
the story I'm telling here, whydo I have these people doing
this and stuff?
(10:13):
But I made a conscioustransition of like, I wanted to
explore things that were looser,more abstract, less worried
about narrative and things likethat.
So, which was really hardbecause it's like so many people
do abstract artwork and whatnot.
Like, and I so I wanted to dosomething that where I was like,
(10:35):
it's not gonna look like whateverybody else does.
Like, so I thought about it fora long time and I started doing
these pieces on wood, andthey're very much a cousin to
the the very, very tightgeometric ones that that y'all
have y'all saw at the show.
Um, but those were very muchkind of me just kind of
(10:55):
exploring the space, so tospeak.
Like it was a very kind of likeformal kind of exercise.
And then I I switched up to thethese ones on canvas, and I
would say it was like midway,probably painting through the
series.
There was in particular, therewas a piece.
Um I don't know if y'allremember it, it was real red,
(11:18):
and it was kind of like theserectangles that were kind of
ticking down and twisting.
And it was like I really feltlike I was fighting it.
And what was interesting is Ihad little sketches and had
planned these.
Um, because again, I like toplan, I like to have like a
foundation, so I kind of knowwhere I'm going.
(11:38):
But it would always, all ofthese would always kind of tilt
away from that.
Like it was like they would takea life of their own, and it was
that particular piece.
I just felt like I just I thename of the piece is called like
bend so far I fucking break, youknow, and so I just felt like it
(11:59):
was like I was about to bend andbreak, and I felt like I was
fighting against the painting,and that was the moment where I
realized that you know, probablylike one in the morning on a
Saturday, I realized like I amtrying to organize chaos right
here.
Like, I feel like I am in chaos,I feel like I'm out of control,
(12:22):
and so I am exerting controlover the one thing, but even
that is like fighting against mein a way of saying, like, you
can only control so much, allowthe chaos to happen, you know,
um, allow some of thespontaneity and you know, stop
fighting against it so much.
(12:44):
So it was about like halfway,but it was that particular
painting where it was like Ireally realized these were
coming from a what had startedout with these ones on wood,
were like I said, very formal,like, and just kind of like I
was I was doing it almost adesign, a purely aesthetic
project.
And then these, like I thenrealized I was like they were
(13:05):
deeply emotional.
Um, but it it took a whilethere.
It just kind of like I said, itwas kind of a it was kind of a
light bulb going off.
SPEAKER_02 (13:13):
You know, I I don't remember you, I I was there at
the artist talk, and I don'tremember you saying that it was
all connected to control, butthat makes sense, you know.
When I, you know, and of course,viewers most people listen to
this rather than see it if yousee it on on uh YouTube, but um
your art, what we saw, you know,um had uh well, first of all, I
(13:40):
just want to say we we go togalleries like weekly.
We we are all over it.
We we are seeing art like allthe time.
SPEAKER_01 (13:48):
That's awesome.
I I wish I had the bandwidth todo that.
That's awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (13:52):
We see a lot of art, and I can say without a doubt, I
have never seen anything likethe pieces that we saw, your
pieces that day.
They are very unique, but therewas you're right, a level of
control in those pieces.
It was like it, I mean, I wouldjust imagine that there was down
(14:13):
to the millimeter measurements,and there was a precision, and
the lines were.
I don't know if you tape thoseoff when you when you paint, but
the the even that, you know,there is to be a precision with
that tape when you're doing,especially when it's not a
straight line, when it's acurve.
Yeah, those with that tape.
SPEAKER_03 (14:35):
I did not paint the circles.
SPEAKER_02 (14:38):
It it the precision was something that you would it
was so precise that you wouldhave thought perhaps a machine
did it.
That's how precise it was.
SPEAKER_03 (14:47):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (14:48):
Like I've just never seen anything like it.
And then yet there were thesegradations of color that were,
it was it, it's a standout.
We see a lot of art, and it itis definitely a standout.
But I I love that you're talkingabout how it connects to your,
you know, being feeling out ofcontrol and wanting to control
(15:09):
something.
And I relate to that because Ihave some control stuff myself,
and I am trying to let go ofcontrol so I don't paint any
straight lines on the paintings.
It's it's all very organicshapes because I and they run
together and and there's no tapeinvolved because I'm trying to
(15:31):
explore the opposite of what Ihave been, which is kind of a
little bit of a control person.
Yeah.
So it's it's just fascinating tome how all of the emotion and so
much of our psyche and thingscome into it.
SPEAKER_01 (15:47):
Yeah, yeah.
It was really, it was really aninteresting, I think it was a
really the first time I canremember where it was like my
subconscious had was working onme in a way that I wasn't aware
of, you know, initially.
It was just like I had I had noidea what I was reacting to at
the beginning.
And um and then yeah, it wasjust like, and that's the thing,
(16:12):
it was it was, you know, stilltail end of you know, working
from home with COVID and allthat stuff.
And then, you know, at the timetoo, I was working on those.
We were uh we were going throughthe IVF process and stuff.
And so it was like justeverything felt like a lot.
SPEAKER_02 (16:33):
Um and um well, and you are describing big live
things that you can't control.
You can't control the pandemic,you can't control whether or not
the I IVF were I mean lots ofthings left up to sh just
chance, it feels like and thestakes are are great at at each
(16:54):
turn on those.
SPEAKER_00 (16:55):
I mean, IVF is expensive.
Yes, and it's it's a commitment.
I mean, beyond the the financialcomponent, you you are making
you're drawing a line in thesand and making some hard
decisions about committing to acourse of action that can when
it ends poorly, it it can be Imean, it it it can it can end in
(17:19):
death.
I mean it can end in a a lot ofuh heartache.
SPEAKER_02 (17:24):
Well, and and the same can be said of of abstract
art.
When you start a series, whenyou started that particular
series, it's it's so individualand like its own thing.
There's this point of is any gotanybody gonna buy this?
You know?
Yeah, yeah, will this will thissell?
(17:45):
And your painting, just for thelisteners to know, your
paintings are huge.
So there's a really expensivewood substrate going on here,
and then there is like an insaneamount of of paint.
It's very expensive to do this.
SPEAKER_00 (18:00):
And to that point, it it's it cannot be said
enough.
I I've recently had a lot ofdiscussions around that whole
argument around whether you youdo what it takes to eat or you
do what feeds your soul.
And there's there's somethingabout your pieces that when uh
they're viewed, when they'reexperienced, they translate into
(18:26):
there being something morethere.
There is something that isbeyond just having uh a visual
vocabulary.
It it's uh it really you look atit and you can almost feel it
looking back.
SPEAKER_01 (18:43):
Yeah, yeah.
No, that's the thing, is it'slike I I really want them to
have like a a sense the way Idescribe it is like it's almost
like a sense of place.
You know, it it's like it's nota room, it's not a monument,
it's not a landscape, but thenit kind of feels like that.
It's it's like if the that'ssomeplace I could go there,
(19:05):
whether you know, uh physicallyor emotionally or you know, in
some metaphorical way, like um,so I love hearing that.
Like, thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (19:17):
Well, and in layman's terms, it is not
commercial art.
No, no, you know, it is just sofar from commercial art.
It's and to me, I would say if Ihad to guess without you saying,
I would guess that this wasn'tyou painting what you thought
would sell.
This was you painting what wasjust wanting to be birthed.
SPEAKER_01 (19:39):
Yes, yeah, yeah, because definitely like the
stuff that started, like theones that are started on like
the stained wood that were, likeI said, like the early cousin of
where these went.
Like those were a little bitmore of like again, a formal, a
little bit more of a commercialexercise, you know, because like
(20:00):
so much of the figurative work,like you know, those figurative
pieces at the show, it's likepeople love it.
They they they think it looksreally great, they love the
artistry of it.
But it's also it's it's a toughsell when it's someone's face
and someone's body.
It's like, you know, they'relike, I really like that, but I
don't know if I'd want that onthe wall of my house, like when
(20:21):
people are coming in and out,you know.
So it was like when I went toand started those ones that are
on the stained wood, which Ididn't have any of those at at
Art on Maine, that was a littlebit more of like kind of
dabbling and a little bit moreof a commercial concern.
But then it's interesting of howit then it did transition.
These ones on Canvas were justlike, okay, taking that
(20:46):
experiment.
And doing this is what I reallywant to do.
And if people like it, great.
If people don't, I don't give ashit.
SPEAKER_02 (20:56):
So Ross, I want to dive just a little bit deeper
into that because this is acommon conversation with anybody
that creates something that theysell.
And that is how do you determinewhether you create what you what
you wants to be birthed, whatyou you love to create versus
(21:17):
what you believe will sell?
I mean, we've heard somecontroversy and we've heard some
theory that, you know, if youtake if you have faith and take
the plunge and paint what youlove to paint, that it will
sell.
And then there's other artiststhat have come with they've told
(21:38):
us completely, I've sold out.
I don't paint anything that Ireally want to paint.
I paint what I know will sell.
But they also said say that thatalways it dims their light.
It it well, it does more thandim their light.
It it turns their painting intojust a job.
SPEAKER_01 (21:56):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I know a lot of people who fitin both of those camps or kind
of straddle those.
And, you know, I think I for themost part have always painted
what I want to paint.
Uh a big part of the reason ofthat is is because I've always
had a, you know, I've always hada corporate job in in
(22:17):
advertising.
So it's like I don't have tosell, I've never had to sell
paintings to eat, you know, orput a roof over my head.
So it's more of like um I get toexplore and do what I want to
do.
And when that intersects withcommerce, like in, you know,
someone wanting to put it ontheir wall, it's great, just
from, you know, of course, themoney standpoint, but it's even
(22:40):
greater because it's somebodyreally accepting something that
I love and care about, not ait's not a product, right?
It's it's like a part of me andand getting someone to react in
that way.
SPEAKER_02 (22:53):
It's an affirmation.
SPEAKER_01 (22:55):
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
It's affirmation.
Like I um I always joke likewith anybody like in my family,
you know, whether it's like mywife or my folks, like, you
know, and they're always like,Well, we really love this paint.
Oh, it's so good, you're sogood, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And I'm like, that's great.
And I've always gonna appreciatethe encouragement and totally
(23:19):
believe it.
But I'm like, but also y'all arebiased, and so there will be
never more it the bias will itwill never mean as much as a
total stranger walking into agallery and either having an
emotional reaction to somethingthey're created and or like
taking it home with them, youknow?
(23:40):
And that to me, it's it's it'sthe ultimate affirmation because
it's like this person doesn'tknow me from anywhere.
They just they're purelyreacting to what I put out in
the world that was personal to,you know, any number of degrees
or from the moment and time itwas created.
(24:01):
So I'm fortunate in that way.
Um that said though, it's reallyit's really interesting.
I I've met a lot of people, andI've had a lot of like because
I'm in the the like corporateworld as uh in advertising, is
like a creative director.
So I've had a lot of people whoare like in the corporate world
(24:22):
that that I work with oradjacent to, and like let's say
they've got like um a familyfriend or a nephew or somebody
who's graduated from college andwho's an artist, and they always
bring them to me.
They want them to talk to mebecause they're like, you know,
Ross has the corporate job, buthe's still out and he's still
doing the art and stuff.
And you know, once upon a time,I would talk about how um, yeah,
(24:45):
having like a good, like solidjob and whatnot, like it's it's
nice because it allows me,again, like I said, to not have
to paint to eat.
So you really get to explore.
My advice has changed over theyears.
My advice is now, particularlythose people coming out of
school or anything, is I'm like,don't get a corporate job, go do
(25:06):
what you want and explore it nowbecause you're young, you're out
of college, your mistakes don'tcost much.
SPEAKER_02 (25:14):
When you don't you don't have a wife and kids to
feed either, or a husband andand kids to feed.
SPEAKER_01 (25:20):
Yeah, you only have you.
You can live in a shittybasement apartment if that's
what you want and pursue yourpassion.
Do that, and then if thatdoesn't work, you can always
like if you got a degree and XY,you can always then go back and
get the corporate the corporateworld is always gonna be there.
But like, so I now tell people,I'm like, go for it.
(25:44):
Like, go for it, and if youfail, that's fine.
It's easier to fail when you're28 than when you're you know 38.
SPEAKER_02 (25:52):
So am I am I hearing that looking back?
I mean, not necessarilyregrettable, but do you wish you
had done that?
SPEAKER_01 (26:00):
Part of me does, yeah, yeah.
But at the same time, you know,your path is your path.
Who knows where I would haveended up?
Um and you know, I'm I'm happywith with my relationships and
my life overall.
Um, but yeah, I do I do kind oflike think back about like
(26:23):
having a little bit more not theart, it's not the artistic
freedom, it's the artisticfreedom time, you know, um, or
just like better harnessing thattime.
You know, you're out of schooland you know, you're you have so
many other concerns.
It's like you got a job, you'retrying to meet people, you know,
and things like that.
(26:43):
And so there's, I guess, also alot of times where I'm like, I
think back a little bit and I'mlike, I maybe should have stayed
in on instead of going out onthat pointless Saturday night, I
should have stayed in and workedon my craft a little bit more.
But um, but you know, I alsobelieve at the same time it's
never too late to kind of likeyou know transition to pursue
(27:04):
your passions, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (27:06):
I agree.
It is never too late.
Here, here I am in the earlystages of painting, and I just
celebrated my 69th birthday.
Oh, that's awesome.
And I'm going for it, you know.
I'm going for it.
I'm I'm actively seeking anartist's studio right now
because I I want to get out ofthe home.
I want to have that dedicatedplace to do that.
(27:28):
Um I had another question that Iwas thinking about, but it may
have just gone away.
SPEAKER_00 (27:36):
In in that uh moment where you you bring it back, I
just want to call out how in theparticular lies the universal.
And there was a point where bothof you shared exactly what your
journey has been.
And while they weren't exactlythe same, there were parts that
(27:58):
definitely rhymed in both ofyour paths, you know, whether
it's you uh have uh uh had todeal with a level of needing
that control in whichevercontext and using your art as a
(28:19):
a therapeutic uh method ofletting that go, of taming that
beast.
SPEAKER_03 (28:26):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (28:27):
It's amazing.
Uh you you both needed to hearit.
As I uh it's funny, uh Ross, asyou were sharing, I was I was
thinking, wow, this reallyapplies to someone who has been
a beauty professional for thepast 40 years doing hair and
makeup that had to be exactlywhat you planned from the start.
(28:48):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (28:49):
No, absolutely.
Yeah, and and that's the thing.
It's like everything is alwayschanging, right?
I mean, um, because yeah,obviously, like the big, like,
the big new thing that's likejust extremely exciting and but
like it's like also like, oh mygod, like so much, you know, is
like, yeah, I'm I'm a fathernow, you know, is like you know,
(29:11):
my wife and I were fortunate to,you know, welcome our our son
into the world, like, you know,is the because I mentioned, you
know, the the IVF process,which, you know, yeah, that time
when I was when I was paintingthose, it's like, you know, we
went through all that.
And the first transfer, becauseuh, we used a gestational
(29:32):
surrogate.
Um, the first transfer didn'ttake.
You know, it didn't take.
And um, you know, it uh I'd I'dmade uh there's a there's a
painting kind of behind me, thatone right there, that was at the
time, I don't know if you cansee it, like the circle, yes.
(29:56):
Yeah, that you know, I kind ofhad made in an you know, in
honor of you know, our processand our idea.
And I um and yeah, and it waslike I finished it, and then it
was like a couple weeks later wefound out it didn't take.
And um so it's like, you know,that painting ended up taking on
a whole new meaning.
(30:17):
But then we went through theprocess again.
Um, you know, there was a lot ofa lot of pain and a lot of work.
I mean, so much of it, like, youknow, it's for me, it was like,
you know, it was the emotionalpain.
But I mean, for my wife, like,you know, those meta, it's the
medicines on top of it, like,because it's like the hormones
(30:39):
and all the things that does toyour body.
Like, um, but you know, it took.
And uh, you know, here we are.
So October 18th, you know, wewelcomed Ezra von Rosenberg into
the world.
So uh, and he's growing like aweed, which I'm like telling
(31:00):
him, like, soon your dad's notgonna be able to hold you
anymore.
He's a big he's a big boy, soyou know, it and that now it's
kind of like what it'sinteresting.
It's like it's interesting, likeit's a perfect example of like,
so I painted that for aparticular reason, something in
anticipation of something, andthen that thing didn't work out,
(31:23):
but then in the end it did, andso it's kind of almost like it's
a little bit like you know, um,you know, maybe he just kind of
knew, hey, you guys aren't readyyet.
So I I'm not I'm not showing upyet, you know.
You you aren't ready, you need alittle more time, you need
another year, another ninemonths.
(31:44):
And so, you know, it was like,okay.
And now he's here.
I don't know that we're anymoreready, you know, but we're
making it work.
SPEAKER_02 (31:53):
I don't know.
You know, he showed up, sosurvey says you must be ready.
SPEAKER_01 (31:57):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
It's hard to tell because allyou know, it's the uh the
communication is just like it'slike the different cries, right?
Like, and and you start tolearn, it's like this one means
I'm hungry, this one means uh Ihave to burp or I'm hot, you
know.
The I have no idea that like thethe gas strict issues were so
(32:19):
difficult, like you know, tummygas or or or burp gas or
whatnot.
I remember being like deathlyafraid of the idea of having to
deal with diapers, you know,because I'm just like, oh gosh,
I'm gonna get I'm gonna get peedon or pooped on or whatever.
And you get over that soquickly.
You know, you get over that soquickly.
And um, and yeah, and that's thethe gap, because it's just like
(32:42):
you you then you start to know,you're like, okay, I know he's
uncomfortable because of XYZ,but like all you can do is like
you know, burp or you know,maybe some like gripe water or
like the bicycle kicks with thelegs, you know, but like
meanwhile, it's like it's gonnawork itself out, it's gonna work
itself out.
Meanwhile, he's you knowscreaming bloody murder, the
(33:04):
only way he knows how.
Like, and he's like, I'm sorry,I'm sorry, I'm trying to make it
better.
SPEAKER_00 (33:09):
It sounds like Ezra is a valuable teacher, too,
because going back to thecontrol issues and that whole
idea of being ready.
Yeah, you're you're never goingto arrive at that point where
things are perfect.
We're always becoming into wherewe need to go next.
SPEAKER_01 (33:33):
Yeah, absolutely.
And so that is a that is alearning process.
I mean, and and um it it itteach he teaches you how to be
patient, he teaches you how tolisten.
Um both of which are things thatlike I'm I'm getting better at,
(33:53):
you know.
Um he teaches you how to valueyour time, you know.
Um like it's it's funny, likeover the past, you know, oh
since I've been on on paternityleave, like I used to, and still
on occasion, I I probablyhaven't touched sat down at my
(34:14):
easel now in a couple weeks, butI have a little bit while I've
I've been on leave.
But like I definitely sit downwith more like intention and
urgency than I used to before.
I used to like kind of take mytime, sit and you know, oh I'll
put a movie on on my computer,you know, and I'll kind of watch
a movie while I paint.
Now I'm just like, no, I'll justpop my earbuds and put on some
(34:36):
music.
And it's like I go, because I'mlike, I got he's taking a nap.
He's gonna maybe I maybe got anhour, hour and a half.
If I'm lucky, and it's time toget some things done.
SPEAKER_02 (34:47):
Um, so it really makes created a search, uh, a an
edge of of urgency.
SPEAKER_01 (34:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It really makes you like valueyour time and um just cut out
all the BS, right?
Like, because it's like youknow, soon like it's like okay,
I'm gonna I'm gonna have to tendto him, or my wife is gonna, or
we're both gonna have to tend tohim or whatnot, and be there for
him.
Because yeah, literally, likethey they have no means of
(35:17):
helping themselves at all, atall.
So, you know, you are you areeverything, and it's it's
wonderful, it's empowering, butit's a lot of pressure, you
know?
And um I think the other part ofnot just like, you know, it's
like every time, you know, he'scrying about something, it's
(35:41):
like trying to solve a puzzle,you know, because there's very
obvious is hungry or does heneed a diaper change, but like
it's like, is he too hot?
Is he too cold?
Is it like, you know, so you tryall these things and you're
constantly and the puzzlechanges like every time.
So there's that patience, but Ialso think I the part of
patience that I'm learning toois it's like as much as I, you
(36:03):
know, he's like this adorablelittle you know, butterball,
like it's um I'm very impatientto know the man he's gonna be
and like share all the likethings with him, you know.
I like here's the music thatdaddy listens to, like, here's
(36:23):
the movie, here's art, like hereis I'm impatient to like, you
know, share the the world withhim because that's how I
communicate, you know.
So I'm impatient for him tounderstand that level of
communication because right nowhe he doesn't, you know, it's
like it's a very it's a veryintuitive level.
So it's like I'm having to learnto be better about those things
(36:47):
and be patient, like all thatother stuff is is gonna happen,
you know, in do in due time.
SPEAKER_00 (36:53):
But I'm I'm hearing the balance is with learning
patience and injecting presence.
Because the the best casescenario is, and if I may invoke
uh Charles Dickens quote, youyou're going to raise a fig tree
(37:13):
in the way that it should growso that in your later years you
can rest in the shade of it.
SPEAKER_01 (37:19):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (37:21):
And enjoy the figs.
SPEAKER_01 (37:23):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
No, and um, so yeah, it's justkind of like it's super
exciting, but it's like, yeah,it's like patience and areas you
didn't even anticipate, right?
And um, and then yeah, justhaving the experience and the
presence, I mean, it opens up itgets the creative brain flowing
(37:46):
too.
So it's also, I'm like, uh, youknow, I'm having all of these
ideas and and um like creativeimpulses, but then also finding
finding the time and also havingthe patience for myself of like
there'll be time for that.
You are gonna get to like, youknow, have time to like paint
and create again.
It's it's all gonna happen andyou're gonna get to share that
(38:07):
with him.
SPEAKER_02 (38:08):
So, you know, uh that's very exciting.
SPEAKER_01 (38:11):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (38:13):
To to be able to share your your love with him
and and probably you couldprobably start to share it
before he's old enough to evenunderstand.
And and you know, it's kind oflike I I think we wait
sometimes.
We wait until we think theyunderstand.
It's like I told somebody theother day, I would be a very
unorthodox parent if I were aparent.
I would teach my children aboutsex before they even understood.
(38:39):
Yeah, because if you say it andthey don't understand, then it
doesn't mean anything.
And if they understand, thenthey're old enough to hear it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That makes sense.
I would I would and I would doit before they reached puberty.
We waited until they're 18 andthey reach puberty at 12,
average age, which doesn't makesense to me.
Yeah, but yeah, that's a wholedifferent topic.
(39:01):
But I I kind of want to shiftgears a little bit and hear a
little bit about how communityor what what role community
plays in your creative process.
Yeah, so as a whole, creative,not just painting, but as a
whole, creative process.
SPEAKER_01 (39:20):
I mean, definitely is um I'm a I'm a sponge.
Uh so I'm always like to be ablelooking and seeing what's out
there, and not just obviouslyI'm primarily a painter, but
like I'm constantly consuming,you know, film, literature,
different mediums, um music.
(39:44):
So, and there's a lot of thatthat informs what I do.
Um, and I'm kind of a pretty bignerd about it.
Like um, I'm usually the personpeople come to for movie
recommendations.
Like I I can I can recommendlike you know, all sorts of
things a lot of times thatpeople have never heard of.
SPEAKER_02 (40:04):
But um You and Dwight have that in common.
SPEAKER_01 (40:07):
Yeah.
Well, yeah, and I, you know,that's that's one of the things,
like it's funny, like um, yeah,having a having a newborn and
you're stuck there on the couch,you put a movie on.
It's like they have no ideawhat's going on.
So I'm like, oh, I totally havetime.
And you know, mom's it's herturn to sleep.
And so I'm like, it's totallymakes sense now to watch all
(40:28):
these like foreign movies that II have in my Amazon queue.
So it's like, all right, buddy,we're watching this uh Russian
warm war film from 1985.
Like it's pretty horrific, butyou're a baby, you're looking at
me, don't worry about it.
So um, but yeah, I I'mconstantly taking everything in.
(40:49):
I I don't get out to galleriesand stuff near as much as I'd
like to.
Uh that's kind of one of the youknow burdens with having like um
you know a a corporate job.
Um, because unfortunately it'slike been a constant like um
gripe of mine is I'm like, Idon't know why always people
like want to start like uhparticularly like a lot of like
(41:13):
gallery shows on like fiveo'clock on a Thursday.
Cause it's like my my work hoursare not like it's not even over
until six, you know.
So I'm just like I'm like, whohas time to deal with because
then you you gotta leave thehouse at 4 30.
Like I'm like, how does thatwork?
So um, but I try and get outthere when when we can, you
(41:35):
know.
We uh we took we took Ezra to gosee uh the open seater studios,
because I've got friends whohave studios and stuff down
there.
So he got he got some to youknow meet some some of dad some
of daddy's friends, you know,and um you know, and some of
them have you know recentlittles too.
(41:56):
So it's like these are gonna beyour buddies growing up, which
is really cool.
Um, because I'm excited for himto grow up in a creative
community and creativeenvironment, you know.
Um and I mean, otherwise though,I would say there are some ways,
like just because like I it'slike I'm very kind of erratic
(42:19):
about getting to shows andthings, that like I think
there's a lot of ways I wouldlike to incorporate community
into my process that I'm notable to sometimes.
Um I like I'm an only child, solike I don't have any siblings,
so I very much have a little bitlike man on an island syndrome
(42:40):
sometimes.
Like I'm I I um I'm a verysocial person, so I'd like to be
out among people.
At the same time, I'm somebodywho can be in a room with by
myself for days, and it doesn'tbother me.
SPEAKER_02 (42:56):
The best of both worlds.
SPEAKER_01 (43:02):
Kind of incorporate some more community aspects into
my work and my process, and youknow, I think that's I think
that's just something that'sgonna take like time, you know,
as I transition and more intobecoming a parent and then you
know, just making some otherlife transitions that you know
(43:23):
we're working on as a family tokind of make things more of a
cohesive unit in the here in thefuture, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (43:30):
So do you think there's ever a time when you
might take your your art studioout of the house and have it
someplace where there might bemore artists?
SPEAKER_01 (43:39):
You know, I yeah, I I'm more open to that than I
ever have been.
Um and you know, I think thatkind of speaks a little bit to
that kind of time and and andplace and where things maybe are
and our lives and and you know,some of my career choices and
things like that.
(43:59):
Because right now it's likehaving it in the house, the
convenience of it is is nice.
It kind of helps like save thattime.
And then also obviously, like umhaving an off spot site space,
it's an extra expense.
So it's like is it right now thecalculation is like, is the
expense justified by how muchI'd be able to go from here over
(44:22):
there to use it, you know.
But that said, it's like, youknow, I've got friends who have
really great setups where it'slike they're able to have their
kiddo in there with them, andyou know, if they're and then a
computer set up, and like iftheir wife wants to come in or
their partner wants to come inand spend time and it's kind of
like it's not just a studio,it's like a family space, but
(44:43):
it's a workspace.
So seeing that kind of exist inum you know, be actualized is I
think a really kind of expiinspiring thing that is making
me kind of reconsider that, butit's still it it needs to, I
need to make sure it have I'mI'm going and using it enough to
(45:05):
justify like the expense, youknow.
SPEAKER_02 (45:07):
I I wonder if there will be a time where there will
be, I mean, when Ezra's not ababy anymore, yeah, and he's you
know, running around like ahouse of fire, and uh the
distractions might be so greatthat you would perhaps need a
space away from the the houseitself where everybody is.
SPEAKER_01 (45:29):
Yeah, yeah.
No, it's a distinct possibility,and and yeah, and I think I
think that's all like part ofthat transition of kind of
making, you know, there's gonnabe a lot of, you know, starting
with this, I think throughoutthe end of this year and into
next year, there's gonna be alot of like, I think for the
(45:49):
better, life changes and stuffthat you know we're working hard
and working towards.
And um I'm optimistic andexcited about it.
And I think I think the root ofa lot of it is also just like I
think there's a little bit ofpart of me that I've been
working on of like, you know, Ithink I'm sometimes a little
(46:10):
bit, I'm a little bit scared ofbeing who I am, you know, and so
it's like really kind ofembracing that and running with
it and going like embracing thatin a way that where it's like
it's gonna be okay and it'sgonna work itself out and we're
gonna be just fine.
And um because it's like notbeing scared, being not being
(46:34):
scared of who you are, it's likeit allows you to kind of really
come into and kind of unlockyour unlock whatever your power
is.
And so I think that's I thinkthere's a part of me that's been
holding back for a long time.
And uh I'm excited that I thinkthat that's gonna change.
(46:55):
And then I'm I'm excited tohave, you know, friends and you
know, like my wife and my newson, who I think are gonna
continue and are continuing toembrace me unlocking that and
really bet on myself.
SPEAKER_02 (47:10):
What a perfect segue into our conversation about
becoming.
Tell tell a little bit more.
I mean, let's be let's bespecific.
What I mean, you you know whereyou are now, and you know what
you've achieved now as acreative, and but it's about
your whole life because youcan't be a creative and not be a
(47:33):
parent and a husband because youare.
SPEAKER_03 (47:35):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (47:36):
In its totality, you know where you are now and you
know who you had to be to gethere.
What is the next step, perhaps,and who will you need to become?
And when I say become, you know,I'm I've learned very quickly to
give this clarification.
You know, when we were kids,they would say, Well, what do
(47:56):
you want to be when you grow up?
Well, I want to be a fireman ina restaurant.
So I'm not talking about thewhat do you want to be?
I'm talking about the who youwant to be.
What you want to be is theexternal process, the who you
want to be is the internalprocess.
Yeah.
Who in here do I need to becometo achieve my dreams that are
out here?
SPEAKER_01 (48:16):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I I think it is, I think one isthere is uh, I I definitely have
like a big um, I have like kindof like a big safe, like there's
a there's a part of my my innerbeing that like or a part of me
that very much thinks aboutsafety, right?
(48:36):
You know, there is there is acautious part of me, which is
really weird.
Like that's also like um becauseit's very counterintuitive to to
being an artist.
Being an artist is not a safe,it's not a safe process.
The the process of putting yourart out where people can see it
and exposing that part ofyourself is not none of that is
(48:57):
safe, you know.
But I think um it is the kind ofentrepreneurial aspect of it.
There is like the really or likeorienting your life and betting
on yourself in a way.
Um that is the part I think thatwhere it's like there's a safety
aspect where it's like I'mworking on and having to learn
(49:19):
to like let go of that.
Like I, you know, the bestanalogy I I can think of is um,
which I'm sure I you know, Ifeel like it, I feel like
everybody's seen uh IndianaJones and The Last Crusade,
right?
You know, and um you know,spoilers for anybody listening
to this, it's like a 30-year-oldmovie at this point.
(49:42):
Like, you know, but uh if youhaven't seen Lyndiana Jones in
the Last Crusade, but you know,at the end, it's like you know,
Indiana Jones, he's having, youknow, to go through the three
tests, right?
So he can get to the the finaltest with like the holy grail.
And there's the one test whereit's like um it's like you know,
was it from a leap a leap with aleap from the lion's head, will
(50:04):
he prove his worth?
And he's standing there, andthere's literally these lion
statues, and there's just thisgiant chasm, right?
And he's looking at it and hejust really he's like, it's a
leap of faith.
You know, it's basically inthis, it's like God is saying,
if you if you have faith, if youhave belief, you will believe
(50:25):
that if you take a leap, and ifyou truly believe, you're gonna
be fine.
You're not gonna fall and tumbleto your death.
And so he he takes that leap,and then obviously you see like
the the optical illusion, right?
Of like how the chasm, the rockslook like the chasm and whatnot.
And so I I think I think that'sI think that's it.
(50:46):
I think it's working up to beable to take that leap for
myself, um you know, and in asmart way, not a reckless way.
I think so.
I think that's the balance ismaking sure, um, you know,
making sure it's like it's it'sdone in a way to where it's like
(51:08):
we're good, we're gonna be takencare of.
So it it it is smart.
I I think like there are thosecautious parts of me that are
don't need to be totallydiscarded.
But I think it's just kind oflike there's believing in
yourself, and then there'sreally believing in yourself.
And so I think that's I thinkthat's I'm really learning to
(51:30):
fully embrace the second versionof that.
SPEAKER_02 (51:33):
Yeah.
I I would, I would just becauseyou have brought this up, I want
to share uh briefly uh of myexperience.
You were talking about safety,and I'm hoping that this will
maybe perhaps give you a littledifferent perspective.
Um I I figured this out maybeabout somewhere around 2017 or
(51:55):
18.
So it's been, you know, six,seven years ago, eight years
ago.
Um most of my life I had exactlywhat you're talking about, you
know, that needing that sense ofsafety.
And I would look for safe peoplein my life.
I would look for safe places inmy life.
Yeah.
(52:15):
And they were rare.
They were very, very rare.
I I've spent a lot of my lifenot feeling safe.
And then there was somethingthat came about, and I can't
even remember what it was now,but somewhere right around 2017
or 18, I realized that I hadbeen looking for looking for
love in all the wrong places.
(52:35):
I'd been looking for safetyeverywhere but where safety
actually existed.
And the big aha moment for mewas you can't find safety out
here.
The safety is in here.
You create the safe space foryourself.
And when I got that, and when Irealized that safety was my
(52:58):
responsibility, and I'm nottalking about driving safe or
not walking in a dark alley atnight.
I'm talking about emotionalsafety.
Yeah.
That putting your art out there,you know, even though it may be
criticized or hated or whatever.
And in that realizing that I wasresponsible for my own safety,
(53:20):
it shifted everything.
I stopped needing safety fromother places and people.
And the odd thing about it waswhen I could feel that safety
from within, then everywhere Ilook, I saw safe people in safe
places.
SPEAKER_01 (53:38):
Yeah.
Yeah.
There, you know, there is athing I heard in an audio book
I've been listening to, um thathas to do it, you know, has to
do with business and selling.
I'll just put it that way.
Uh it's really interestingthough.
And the the line is what youfocus on expands.
SPEAKER_03 (54:01):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (54:02):
Meaning, you know, it is like, and and the example
is like, okay, like let's saythere is there is something.
Uh let's say like you you need anew car and you buy this
particular car that you're like,oh, I really like this car.
And and it's it's you no nobodyI know has this car, right?
(54:23):
And then suddenly when you buyon the car and you're thinking
about the car, then you see thatcar everywhere all of a sudden,
you know, and it's just becauseyou weren't focused on it, you
know.
SPEAKER_02 (54:33):
When your wife got pregnant, all of a sudden,
everywhere you looked, you sawpregnant women.
SPEAKER_01 (54:38):
Yeah, well, because she she didn't get pregnant, it
was because we'd had thesurrogate.
But that's right.
I'm sorry, yeah.
No, no, no worries.
SPEAKER_02 (54:46):
But I'm I'm really awake, I promise.
SPEAKER_01 (54:48):
No, but to your to your point though, to your
point, it you you're you're 100%on point because as we went
through the IVF process, it waslike it was like you know,
people emerging from the woods,and they're all raising their
hands going, like, I I had to doit too.
(55:09):
You know, um it's it's crazy.
It was like all of a sudden itwas like the people were there,
the process was there, and whatwe needed was there.
I mean, um, like just you know,it's like finding the for
example, I mean, you talk aboutlike miracles and what you focus
(55:31):
on expands, like, you know,we're we're going, we're you
know, we're going through thewhole process, and it's the
process of finding someone elseto like physically carry your
child for you.
You know, it's like that's a bigask, right?
And um, and it was just we werehitting dead end and dead end
after dead end, and then out ofnowhere, the um, you know, the
(55:55):
the the woman who ended up beingum our our our surrogate, she is
the daughter of my dad's likebest friend of 35 years.
And they were just kind ofhaving a conversation one day,
and he just kind of my dad'sfriend's like, oh, you should
talk to you should talk to mydaughter.
(56:17):
She she's always she would loveto do that.
She loves being pregnant, youknow, because she's got you know
two kids of her own.
And it happened when we werejust at so many dead ends, and
it just it couldn't have been abetter process.
And now they're you know, notonly helped bring Ezra into the
world, but like they're lifelongfriends of ours and we'll be
(56:37):
continue to be friends of ours.
And that's magical, yeah.
And it's just like it's whatwhat we focused on, it expanded
and it gave us what we needed.
SPEAKER_00 (56:49):
So yeah, I'd I'd like to circle back, if I may.
Um I'd uh when you were talkingabout that realization about
what the stakes were when you uhneeded to when you shifted your
thinking about uh going forsafety or leaning into growth,
(57:11):
it's the same kind of wisdomthat's been written about for uh
for centuries.
Ben Franklin said those whowould give up essential liberty
to purchase a little temporarysafety deserve neither.
SPEAKER_01 (57:25):
My favorite that's my my probably one of my
favorite historical quotes.
No, yeah, it's it's a hundredpercent right.
And it's it's something thatthat comes up in philosophy, it
comes up in mythology.
I mean, you know, it's anotherand and how it weaves itself
into pop culture.
(57:46):
Like I said, you know, it's notjust Indiana Jones.
I think of like the the last ofthe Christian Bale Batman
movies.
Like, how was he finally able toget out of the pit?
He had to make the climb withoutthe rope, he had to do it with
no safety.
He had to embrace the idea thatif he didn't make the jump, he'd
fall to his death.
(58:07):
And so it is, it is a it is athing, it is uh it is
mythological within us, likethese these stories.
Um and I think that I thinkthat's just that's why they're
true, that's why they're right.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (58:24):
So I too want to circle back for a moment and
then then it's nearing our timeto wrap up, but yeah, I want to
circle back and ask you if youcould sum up in a sentence or
two and start your sentence withI am becoming I am becoming the
(58:46):
I am becoming the creativeperson that I've always wanted
to be.
SPEAKER_01 (58:53):
A creative person who is truly free to create not
just for myself, but create acircle for my wife, for my son,
and for all of us to you knowtruly like go forth and live in
(59:17):
like synchronicity and harmonygoing forward.
So that's that's what I'mworking on.
That's what I'm becoming.
SPEAKER_02 (59:24):
How does that feel, Ross?
Perhaps the first time?
SPEAKER_01 (59:31):
Uh a little bit here and there, you know, but no, it
feels good every time I say it,but a little scary.
Yeah, but that's okay.
SPEAKER_02 (59:39):
Yeah.
Yeah, I can I can feel it rightnow.
It's bringing up emotion, isn'tit?
That's beautiful.
Thank you for that.
And I'm gonna say thank you forfor our listeners because
they're this is this is amoment.
SPEAKER_01 (59:56):
Yeah, I and I think part of part of that is me being
a little bit more comfortablesharing things like this.
I'm not I've always not that I'mnot like an emotional person or
I'm not somebody who's in touchwith my emotions or whatnot, but
I I I've always kind ofprojected a little bit of and
found a little value and maybe alittle bit too much stoicism
(01:00:20):
over my life.
And um, you know, just likeanother good quote, Dwight, is
uh, you know, from uh WinstonChurchill.
It is if you ever find yourself,if you ever look, if you're if
you're walking and you lookaround and find yourself in
hell, just keep going.
You know?
And so that's been my approachto so many things, but at the
(01:00:43):
same time, it's like you you cankind of get buried and stuff.
You know, um sometimes you gottalike look up and really look at
the possibilities and thinkmaybe I don't need to just keep
going.
Maybe I have control of theworld around me and maybe I can
(01:01:04):
exert some power on that to makeit a better place for myself and
the people who are in my orbit.
SPEAKER_02 (01:01:10):
We get to fully choose who we become and we get
to fully choose how we show upin life.
SPEAKER_01 (01:01:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:01:17):
And because that's what we're focusing on, that's
what comes about.
SPEAKER_03 (01:01:21):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:01:22):
I'm not saying we have full control, but we
certainly have influence overour reality.
SPEAKER_01 (01:01:28):
A hundred percent.
And I think that's what I'mlearning.
You know, I um that yeah, it'sit's I can choose more readily
how I react to things in theworld in a way to better shape
my reality and to make my dreamsand the dreams for my family
(01:01:49):
come true.
SPEAKER_02 (01:01:50):
I I would love to suggest that you write your I am
statement down.
I am becoming, and it's key toto say I am becoming and not I
want to become.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
And then pause it a little bit.
SPEAKER_01 (01:02:05):
Actualization.
SPEAKER_02 (01:02:06):
Write it down and kind of look at it and tweak it
until it says exactly whatbrought that emotion up a minute
ago.
SPEAKER_03 (01:02:13):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:02:14):
Good stuff, good stuff.
SPEAKER_00 (01:02:16):
It doesn't have to be one and done.
I mean, it's something that youcan revisit often.
SPEAKER_02 (01:02:20):
Oh, yeah.
Because we're uh every day we'rebecoming somebody different than
we were the day before.
Yeah.
It's it's like, you know, whenone of those big rocket ships
heads out into outer space witha specific destiny, it doesn't
stay on course.
It never stays on course.
It veers off course and thenthey have to course correct.
(01:02:41):
And our same way.
SPEAKER_01 (01:02:43):
Yeah.
There was there was a I and Idon't remember, uh, I don't
remember his name, but there wassomebody who was like he he was
a speaker at some years ago atlike one of our companies, like
corporate events, but he talkedabout like how you know the
creative process, and it'sreally true, it's not like or
(01:03:03):
creative process and thecreative and creative
achievement is not really astraight line.
You really you place a bunch ofbets.
You do it all, you're doing allof these things and placing a
bunch of these bets.
And you have to learn how to beflexible on where what is paying
off or where what makes sensetakes you.
(01:03:24):
Because very much when you aregoing like, I'm at point A and I
want to go to point B, like youare gonna rob yourself of
opportunity, you're gonna robyourself of growth by being so
focused on point B.
Because point B might change.
You might realize you need to goto point C.
(01:03:45):
You might maybe you need to goaround point A in a in a circle
for a while.
Like you you don't really know,but you have to you have to
allow for that spontaneity toexist.
You you can't fight it.
SPEAKER_02 (01:03:59):
Those are true words of wisdom, Ross.
Thank you.
I'm I I appreciate listening tothat.
So I I know our our listeners dotoo.
This has been amazing.
SPEAKER_01 (01:04:09):
Yeah, no, thank you so much.
SPEAKER_02 (01:04:12):
You know, thank you so much for your vulnerability
and your realness.
SPEAKER_03 (01:04:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:04:16):
You know, sharing your your your wife and your
child with us.
And it's it's this has beenamazing.
SPEAKER_01 (01:04:24):
Thank you.
Thank you.
I I I couldn't agree more.
This is this is fantastic.
And I definitely like, I don'tknow when y'all are holding more
events and stuff, but I am gonnamake it out to one.
So uh so definitely I I I wantto come out and yeah, continue
to kind of work on actualizingbeing out like in the creative
community more because you know,uh it's something I'm actively
(01:04:48):
trying to work on, you know,being connected more to to to
other people and stuff likethat.
SPEAKER_02 (01:04:54):
You know, what one of the things I almost always
hear from parents, you know, asa hairdresser for 40 years, I
listen to mostly moms, but somedads too.
SPEAKER_03 (01:05:02):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:05:02):
And there is one thing that all parents
eventually realize is that asthey bring children into the
world, that time away from thatchild is uber important.
SPEAKER_01 (01:05:15):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:05:17):
You love them to death, but you gotta have a
break from them.
You gotta have some some of yourown time to grow, to learn, to
express, to feel, to yeah, toconnect.
SPEAKER_01 (01:05:28):
Yeah, yeah.
Because we're all stillindividual people, and you don't
wanna, whether it's a child or arelationship, you don't want to
totally lose who you are insideof another person.
Precisely that's it's kind ofpeople think it's kind of
counterintuitive, but like itit's good, it's ultimately not
(01:05:50):
good.
It's not good for who you are,and it's not good for your
relationship with that thatother person because it's like
if like in the in the in thecase of like myself and my wife,
well, I don't want to losemyself totally in her and vice
versa, because that totallybetrays what the relationship
(01:06:12):
is.
Like part of the reason she'shere is because she likes who I
am, and and the reason I'm hereis I like who she is.
You know, we love who we are,right?
And so then that's the wholething too, is like what we bring
to the table is now as parentsis is who we are and our
experiences.
And if we totally lose ourselvesin that part, then we're losing
that wisdom we can give to him.
(01:06:33):
We're losing that, um, we'relosing all that opportunities
that we can give to him, um, youknow, to help him eventually
navigate through the world,which he's gonna eventually one
day gonna have to do without us,you know.
SPEAKER_02 (01:06:46):
Yep.
I would I would write that downtoo, because there's gonna be a
point when you're gonna need areminder.
SPEAKER_01 (01:06:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:06:52):
You know, and and give her a copy because there's
a time when y'all are gonna needto remind each other because a
child becomes so engrossing thatyou you lose track of that
wisdom sometimes.
SPEAKER_03 (01:07:03):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:07:05):
Good stuff.
Good stuff.
Dwight, you got anything youwant to add?
SPEAKER_00 (01:07:10):
No, we are we're a bit over time, but okay.
This has been fabulous.
SPEAKER_01 (01:07:15):
Well, thank you.
No, I I really appreciate this.
Is this has been great.
I mean, I thought it was gonnabe great, but it's been even
better than I anticipated.
SPEAKER_00 (01:07:23):
So thank you guys for we're so glad that you that
you could do this.
Yes, absolutely.
I am exerting control over the one thing, but
even that is like fightingagainst me in a way of saying,
like, you can only control somuch, allow the chaos to happen,
you know, um, allow some of thespontaneity and you know, stop
fighting against it so much.
(01:19):
So it was about like halfway,but it was that particular
painting where it was like, Ireally realized these were
coming from a what had startedout with these ones on wood,
were like I said, very formal,like, and just kind of like I
was I was doing it almost adesign, a purely aesthetic
project.
And then these, like I thenrealized I was like they were
(01:40):
deeply emotional.
Um, but it it took a whilethere.
It just kind of like I said, itwas kind of a it was kind of a
light bulb going off.
SPEAKER_02 (01:59):
Hey there.
Welcome to For the Love ofCreatives Podcast.
I'm Maddox and I'm here withDwight.
Hello, my co-host.
Today, our guest is Ross vonRosenberg.
Ross, welcome to the podcast.
We're so glad to have you here.
SPEAKER_01 (02:18):
Thank you, Maddox and Dwight.
I couldn't be happier to behere.
SPEAKER_02 (02:22):
Yes, we we had a fumble up the last time he had
an appointment to record this.
We uh got a little distractedand missed our own appointment.
So this is take two, and wethank you so much for uh your
grace and patience.
Um, I'm gonna turn it over toyou, Ross, and let you tell our
listeners who you are and whatyou're about.
SPEAKER_01 (02:43):
Okay.
Yeah, thank you.
Um, yeah, so yeah, my name'sRasman Rosenberg.
Um I'm I live in East Dallas,uh, and I'm I'm an artist.
I've lifelong been an artist.
I would even say at this point,I'm really a creative is a
better description.
Like my primary mode is ispainting, but uh I've worked in
(03:06):
photography, graphic design, Istill work in graphic design,
um, collage.
I even write on occasion, uh,although I've never really
published anything.
But um I'm a person that Ireally like to consider myself
as a creative to be an explorer.
Um my interests as an artisttend to be a little bit kind of
(03:32):
more 30,000 foot view above whatare kind of more of the um the
kind of like day-to-day earthlyconcerns, I guess, or whatnot.
It's like I'm more kind ofthinking about the bigger when
I'm when I'm dealing with humansand human emotions, I'm thinking
a little bit more of but broadlyof like the universalistic, the
(03:54):
universal quality of the humanexperience.
And so that's kind of what I'minterested in.
But then I'm also justinterested in expression for its
own sake.
Um, and I think anybody who seesmy my work or like goes to my
website, like they'll see thatlike where I was at one time is
like I am now in totally adifferent place, and I hope to
(04:15):
win I'm 60 to be in a differentplace and 70 and so on.
So um, you know, the finishedproducts are great, um, but the
journey is a big a big part.
SPEAKER_02 (04:27):
So isn't it beautiful that we get to go
through that metamorphosis asmany times as we like, and a few
times when we don't like.
SPEAKER_03 (04:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (04:37):
Yes, we change throughout our lives, and isn't
it grand that that's the case?
I don't understand people thatdon't like change.
SPEAKER_00 (04:44):
Well, sometimes it's a little hard when you're you're
close to it.
I mean, it's we're we're told insome of the the ancient
traditions that we have to findthe gift in everything.
But it can be really hard whenyou're in the middle of it.
SPEAKER_01 (04:59):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, and that's the thing.
And when you're in the middle ofit, I feel like sometimes it's
like you don't even, it's noteven that you don't even realize
it, but you maybe don't evenrealize how whatever it is is
kind of exerting its power ontoyou.
And then when you step back,you're like, why did I why did I
make these decisions to createthis?
(05:21):
And then it all of a sudden it'slike some a light bulb goes off,
and you go, oh, this is what wasit, this is what I was reacting
to, you know.
Um it's like the most recent,like the the show y'all, y'all
came to those those abstractpieces.
I didn't I didn't realize at thetime, but like I was reacting
to, and I think I mentioned thisin the artist talk, I was
(05:43):
reacting to feeling out ofcontrol about so many things in
my life, with like my time, umuh, you know, time versus career
versus all these things.
And I was like basicallyexerting control on the canvas
within an inch of its life.
I was like, I'm going to controlthese things, but then you can
(06:05):
see the tension of what I wascreating fighting back against
me a little bit.
And it wasn't until like I washalfway through those I kind of
just realized, I'm like, oh, Iknow what's happening here.
And it's interesting because Ithink a lot of people don't
always necessarily think ofabstract colors and shapes and
brushstrokes as like human andemotional, you know.
(06:29):
It people kind of think of itmore as as a aesthetic and
decorative, and it's just like,no, it came from a very, very
like deep place that I didn'trealize was happening at the
time.
SPEAKER_02 (06:41):
It is very deep.
And just and because it'sabstract, it doesn't have any
any bearing on it.
I, you know, I think it'sinteresting because you're
describing realizing howrepresentational it is of your
life after you you work on thepiece, after you paint the
piece.
And I I'm a baby artist, I'm anewer artist, I haven't been
(07:05):
painting for a long time, and Iam finding the same thing.
I listened to artists talkabout, you know, I was going
through this, and so I sat downand poured it all out on canvas
or poured it out in whatevermedium they're working in.
And I just can't relate to thatat all.
I mean, I hear it, but for me,when I paint, it's just my
(07:29):
seven-year-old smearing prettycolors on a surface.
Yeah.
It's just, it's just fun.
I'm just playing.
But then, like you, afterward,I've been reflecting recently.
I've I've been I've I painted alittle bit, dabbled a little bit
a few years ago, but now it'smaybe been five or six months
that I'm actively painting.
(07:49):
Yeah.
And I I sat last week or two, Idon't know, two couple of weeks
and really looked at the piecesthat I've painted.
And I I could see a theme.
I could see how they correlatedto what was going on inside of
me at the time I painted them.
And it was like I had neverheard anybody describing it like
(08:11):
that.
Everybody else, all the artiststhat I had heard talk about it,
it was always this pre-thoughtthing, you know.
Yeah, I'm grieving, so I'm gonnapour my grief out onto the
canvas.
And to, you know, me, I'mthinking, gee, I'm not sure I'm
a real artist because all I'mdoing is just smearing pretty
colors on the canvas.
But when I had that moment whenI could look back and realize
(08:31):
how representational it was,some parts of them were
reputational, what I'verepresentational for what I was
going through in the moment.
And then there's this overalltheme.
You can see aspects of me on anongoing basis in there.
It's like yes, and it's it'sit's been I would, and and this
(08:57):
I'm leading it, I'm long leadwayinto a question, but yeah, um
it's been really fabulous torealize that it was connected to
me in a deeper level than Ithought it was.
SPEAKER_03 (09:08):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (09:09):
And so I'm wondering how long you had to paint,
because you because you discoverthat it's after the painting
too.
You know, it's like you lookback and you go, Oh, how long
did you have to paint before youhad that awareness?
Or maybe you had it right away,or uh tell me a little story
about how that unfolded, please.
SPEAKER_01 (09:30):
Yeah, no, it's interesting because um, and and
it's like, yeah, it's like y'allshow y'all saw my show on Art on
Art on Maine.
There was the the older workthat was more figurative and
stuff, you know, and had likeyou know, human figures, and it
was a little bit moresurrealistic and stuff.
So it's like it's reallyinteresting.
I first kind of made, I made aconscious transition because I
(09:53):
am very in a way calculated asan artist.
I do a lot of planning, youknow, I have a lot of doodles
and stuff, and I really thinkabout particularly prior when I
was doing more representationalwork.
It's like you're showing people,like I'm thinking about what's
the story I'm telling here, whydo I have these people doing
this and stuff?
(10:13):
But I made a conscioustransition of like, I wanted to
explore things that were looser,more abstract, less worried
about narrative and things likethat.
So, which was really hardbecause it's like so many people
do abstract artwork and whatnot.
Like, and I so I wanted to dosomething that where I was like,
(10:35):
it's not gonna look like whateverybody else does.
Like, so I thought about it fora long time and I started doing
these pieces on wood, andthey're very much a cousin to
the the very, very tightgeometric ones that that y'all
have y'all saw at the show.
Um, but those were very muchkind of me just kind of
(10:55):
exploring the space, so tospeak.
Like it was a very kind of likeformal kind of exercise.
And then I I switched up to thethese ones on canvas, and I
would say it was like midway,probably painting through the
series.
There was in particular, therewas a piece.
Um I don't know if y'allremember it, it was real red,
(11:18):
and it was kind of like theserectangles that were kind of
ticking down and twisting.
And it was like I really feltlike I was fighting it.
And what was interesting is Ihad little sketches and had
planned these.
Um, because again, I like toplan, I like to have like a
foundation, so I kind of knowwhere I'm going.
(11:38):
But it would always, all ofthese would always kind of tilt
away from that.
Like it was like they would takea life of their own, and it was
that particular piece.
I just felt like I just I thename of the piece is called like
bend so far I fucking break, youknow, and so I just felt like it
(11:59):
was like I was about to bend andbreak, and I felt like I was
fighting against the painting,and that was the moment where I
realized that you know, probablylike one in the morning on a
Saturday, I realized like I amtrying to organize chaos right
here.
Like, I feel like I am in chaos,I feel like I'm out of control,
(12:22):
and so I am exerting controlover the one thing, but even
that is like fighting against mein a way of saying, like, you
can only control so much, allowthe chaos to happen, you know,
um, allow some of thespontaneity and you know, stop
fighting against it so much.
(12:44):
So it was about like halfway,but it was that particular
painting where it was like Ireally realized these were
coming from a what had startedout with these ones on wood,
were like I said, very formal,like, and just kind of like I
was I was doing it almost adesign, a purely aesthetic
project.
And then these, like I thenrealized I was like they were
(13:05):
deeply emotional.
Um, but it it took a whilethere.
It just kind of like I said, itwas kind of a it was kind of a
light bulb going off.
SPEAKER_02 (13:13):
You know, I I don't remember you, I I was there at
the artist talk, and I don'tremember you saying that it was
all connected to control, butthat makes sense, you know.
When I, you know, and of course,viewers most people listen to
this rather than see it if yousee it on on uh YouTube, but um
your art, what we saw, you know,um had uh well, first of all, I
(13:40):
just want to say we we go togalleries like weekly.
We we are all over it.
We we are seeing art like allthe time.
SPEAKER_01 (13:48):
That's awesome.
I I wish I had the bandwidth todo that.
That's awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (13:52):
We see a lot of art, and I can say without a doubt, I
have never seen anything likethe pieces that we saw, your
pieces that day.
They are very unique, but therewas you're right, a level of
control in those pieces.
It was like it, I mean, I wouldjust imagine that there was down
(14:13):
to the millimeter measurements,and there was a precision, and
the lines were.
I don't know if you tape thoseoff when you when you paint, but
the the even that, you know,there is to be a precision with
that tape when you're doing,especially when it's not a
straight line, when it's acurve.
Yeah, those with that tape.
SPEAKER_03 (14:35):
I did not paint the circles.
SPEAKER_02 (14:38):
It it the precision was something that you would it
was so precise that you wouldhave thought perhaps a machine
did it.
That's how precise it was.
SPEAKER_03 (14:47):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (14:48):
Like I've just never seen anything like it.
And then yet there were thesegradations of color that were,
it was it, it's a standout.
We see a lot of art, and it itis definitely a standout.
But I I love that you're talkingabout how it connects to your,
you know, being feeling out ofcontrol and wanting to control
(15:09):
something.
And I relate to that because Ihave some control stuff myself,
and I am trying to let go ofcontrol so I don't paint any
straight lines on the paintings.
It's it's all very organicshapes because I and they run
together and and there's no tapeinvolved because I'm trying to
(15:31):
explore the opposite of what Ihave been, which is kind of a
little bit of a control person.
Yeah.
So it's it's just fascinating tome how all of the emotion and so
much of our psyche and thingscome into it.
SPEAKER_01 (15:47):
Yeah, yeah.
It was really, it was really aninteresting, I think it was a
really the first time I canremember where it was like my
subconscious had was working onme in a way that I wasn't aware
of, you know, initially.
It was just like I had I had noidea what I was reacting to at
the beginning.
And um and then yeah, it wasjust like, and that's the thing,
(16:12):
it was it was, you know, stilltail end of you know, working
from home with COVID and allthat stuff.
And then, you know, at the timetoo, I was working on those.
We were uh we were going throughthe IVF process and stuff.
And so it was like justeverything felt like a lot.
SPEAKER_02 (16:33):
Um and um well, and you are describing big live
things that you can't control.
You can't control the pandemic,you can't control whether or not
the I IVF were I mean lots ofthings left up to sh just
chance, it feels like and thestakes are are great at at each
(16:54):
turn on those.
SPEAKER_00 (16:55):
I mean, IVF is expensive.
Yes, and it's it's a commitment.
I mean, beyond the the financialcomponent, you you are making
you're drawing a line in thesand and making some hard
decisions about committing to acourse of action that can when
it ends poorly, it it can be Imean, it it it can it can end in
(17:19):
death.
I mean it can end in a a lot ofuh heartache.
SPEAKER_02 (17:24):
Well, and and the same can be said of of abstract
art.
When you start a series, whenyou started that particular
series, it's it's so individualand like its own thing.
There's this point of is any gotanybody gonna buy this?
You know?
Yeah, yeah, will this will thissell?
(17:45):
And your painting, just for thelisteners to know, your
paintings are huge.
So there's a really expensivewood substrate going on here,
and then there is like an insaneamount of of paint.
It's very expensive to do this.
SPEAKER_00 (18:00):
And to that point, it it's it cannot be said
enough.
I I've recently had a lot ofdiscussions around that whole
argument around whether you youdo what it takes to eat or you
do what feeds your soul.
And there's there's somethingabout your pieces that when uh
they're viewed, when they'reexperienced, they translate into
(18:26):
there being something morethere.
There is something that isbeyond just having uh a visual
vocabulary.
It it's uh it really you look atit and you can almost feel it
looking back.
SPEAKER_01 (18:43):
Yeah, yeah.
No, that's the thing, is it'slike I I really want them to
have like a a sense the way Idescribe it is like it's almost
like a sense of place.
You know, it it's like it's nota room, it's not a monument,
it's not a landscape, but thenit kind of feels like that.
It's it's like if the that'ssomeplace I could go there,
(19:05):
whether you know, uh physicallyor emotionally or you know, in
some metaphorical way, like um,so I love hearing that.
Like, thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (19:17):
Well, and in layman's terms, it is not
commercial art.
No, no, you know, it is just sofar from commercial art.
It's and to me, I would say if Ihad to guess without you saying,
I would guess that this wasn'tyou painting what you thought
would sell.
This was you painting what wasjust wanting to be birthed.
SPEAKER_01 (19:39):
Yes, yeah, yeah, because definitely like the
stuff that started, like theones that are started on like
the stained wood that were, likeI said, like the early cousin of
where these went.
Like those were a little bitmore of like again, a formal, a
little bit more of a commercialexercise, you know, because like
(20:00):
so much of the figurative work,like you know, those figurative
pieces at the show, it's likepeople love it.
They they they think it looksreally great, they love the
artistry of it.
But it's also it's it's a toughsell when it's someone's face
and someone's body.
It's like, you know, they'relike, I really like that, but I
don't know if I'd want that onthe wall of my house, like when
(20:21):
people are coming in and out,you know.
So it was like when I went toand started those ones that are
on the stained wood, which Ididn't have any of those at at
Art on Maine, that was a littlebit more of like kind of
dabbling and a little bit moreof a commercial concern.
But then it's interesting of howit then it did transition.
These ones on Canvas were justlike, okay, taking that
(20:46):
experiment.
And doing this is what I reallywant to do.
And if people like it, great.
If people don't, I don't give ashit.
SPEAKER_02 (20:56):
So Ross, I want to dive just a little bit deeper
into that because this is acommon conversation with anybody
that creates something that theysell.
And that is how do you determinewhether you create what you what
you wants to be birthed, whatyou you love to create versus
(21:17):
what you believe will sell?
I mean, we've heard somecontroversy and we've heard some
theory that, you know, if youtake if you have faith and take
the plunge and paint what youlove to paint, that it will
sell.
And then there's other artiststhat have come with they've told
(21:38):
us completely, I've sold out.
I don't paint anything that Ireally want to paint.
I paint what I know will sell.
But they also said say that thatalways it dims their light.
It it well, it does more thandim their light.
It it turns their painting intojust a job.
SPEAKER_01 (21:56):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I know a lot of people who fitin both of those camps or kind
of straddle those.
And, you know, I think I for themost part have always painted
what I want to paint.
Uh a big part of the reason ofthat is is because I've always
had a, you know, I've always hada corporate job in in
(22:17):
advertising.
So it's like I don't have tosell, I've never had to sell
paintings to eat, you know, orput a roof over my head.
So it's more of like um I get toexplore and do what I want to
do.
And when that intersects withcommerce, like in, you know,
someone wanting to put it ontheir wall, it's great, just
from, you know, of course, themoney standpoint, but it's even
(22:40):
greater because it's somebodyreally accepting something that
I love and care about, not ait's not a product, right?
It's it's like a part of me andand getting someone to react in
that way.
SPEAKER_02 (22:53):
It's an affirmation.
SPEAKER_01 (22:55):
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
It's affirmation.
Like I um I always joke likewith anybody like in my family,
you know, whether it's like mywife or my folks, like, you
know, and they're always like,Well, we really love this paint.
Oh, it's so good, you're sogood, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And I'm like, that's great.
And I've always gonna appreciatethe encouragement and totally
(23:19):
believe it.
But I'm like, but also y'all arebiased, and so there will be
never more it the bias will itwill never mean as much as a
total stranger walking into agallery and either having an
emotional reaction to somethingthey're created and or like
taking it home with them, youknow?
(23:40):
And that to me, it's it's it'sthe ultimate affirmation because
it's like this person doesn'tknow me from anywhere.
They just they're purelyreacting to what I put out in
the world that was personal to,you know, any number of degrees
or from the moment and time itwas created.
(24:01):
So I'm fortunate in that way.
Um that said though, it's reallyit's really interesting.
I I've met a lot of people, andI've had a lot of like because
I'm in the the like corporateworld as uh in advertising, is
like a creative director.
So I've had a lot of people whoare like in the corporate world
(24:22):
that that I work with oradjacent to, and like let's say
they've got like um a familyfriend or a nephew or somebody
who's graduated from college andwho's an artist, and they always
bring them to me.
They want them to talk to mebecause they're like, you know,
Ross has the corporate job, buthe's still out and he's still
doing the art and stuff.
And you know, once upon a time,I would talk about how um, yeah,
(24:45):
having like a good, like solidjob and whatnot, like it's it's
nice because it allows me,again, like I said, to not have
to paint to eat.
So you really get to explore.
My advice has changed over theyears.
My advice is now, particularlythose people coming out of
school or anything, is I'm like,don't get a corporate job, go do
(25:06):
what you want and explore it nowbecause you're young, you're out
of college, your mistakes don'tcost much.
SPEAKER_02 (25:14):
When you don't you don't have a wife and kids to
feed either, or a husband andand kids to feed.
SPEAKER_01 (25:20):
Yeah, you only have you.
You can live in a shittybasement apartment if that's
what you want and pursue yourpassion.
Do that, and then if thatdoesn't work, you can always
like if you got a degree and XY,you can always then go back and
get the corporate the corporateworld is always gonna be there.
But like, so I now tell people,I'm like, go for it.
(25:44):
Like, go for it, and if youfail, that's fine.
It's easier to fail when you're28 than when you're you know 38.
SPEAKER_02 (25:52):
So am I am I hearing that looking back?
I mean, not necessarilyregrettable, but do you wish you
had done that?
SPEAKER_01 (26:00):
Part of me does, yeah, yeah.
But at the same time, you know,your path is your path.
Who knows where I would haveended up?
Um and you know, I'm I'm happywith with my relationships and
my life overall.
Um, but yeah, I do I do kind oflike think back about like
(26:23):
having a little bit more not theart, it's not the artistic
freedom, it's the artisticfreedom time, you know, um, or
just like better harnessing thattime.
You know, you're out of schooland you know, you're you have so
many other concerns.
It's like you got a job, you'retrying to meet people, you know,
and things like that.
(26:43):
And so there's, I guess, also alot of times where I'm like, I
think back a little bit and I'mlike, I maybe should have stayed
in on instead of going out onthat pointless Saturday night, I
should have stayed in and workedon my craft a little bit more.
But um, but you know, I alsobelieve at the same time it's
never too late to kind of likeyou know transition to pursue
(27:04):
your passions, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (27:06):
I agree.
It is never too late.
Here, here I am in the earlystages of painting, and I just
celebrated my 69th birthday.
Oh, that's awesome.
And I'm going for it, you know.
I'm going for it.
I'm I'm actively seeking anartist's studio right now
because I I want to get out ofthe home.
I want to have that dedicatedplace to do that.
(27:28):
Um I had another question that Iwas thinking about, but it may
have just gone away.
SPEAKER_00 (27:36):
In in that uh moment where you you bring it back, I
just want to call out how in theparticular lies the universal.
And there was a point where bothof you shared exactly what your
journey has been.
And while they weren't exactlythe same, there were parts that
(27:58):
definitely rhymed in both ofyour paths, you know, whether
it's you uh have uh uh had todeal with a level of needing
that control in whichevercontext and using your art as a
(28:19):
a therapeutic uh method ofletting that go, of taming that
beast.
SPEAKER_03 (28:26):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (28:27):
It's amazing.
Uh you you both needed to hearit.
As I uh it's funny, uh Ross, asyou were sharing, I was I was
thinking, wow, this reallyapplies to someone who has been
a beauty professional for thepast 40 years doing hair and
makeup that had to be exactlywhat you planned from the start.
(28:48):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (28:49):
No, absolutely.
Yeah, and and that's the thing.
It's like everything is alwayschanging, right?
I mean, um, because yeah,obviously, like the big, like,
the big new thing that's likejust extremely exciting and but
like it's like also like, oh mygod, like so much, you know, is
like, yeah, I'm I'm a fathernow, you know, is like you know,
(29:11):
my wife and I were fortunate to,you know, welcome our our son
into the world, like, you know,is the because I mentioned, you
know, the the IVF process,which, you know, yeah, that time
when I was when I was paintingthose, it's like, you know, we
went through all that.
And the first transfer, becauseuh, we used a gestational
(29:32):
surrogate.
Um, the first transfer didn'ttake.
You know, it didn't take.
And um, you know, it uh I'd I'dmade uh there's a there's a
painting kind of behind me, thatone right there, that was at the
time, I don't know if you cansee it, like the circle, yes.
(29:56):
Yeah, that you know, I kind ofhad made in an you know, in
honor of you know, our processand our idea.
And I um and yeah, and it waslike I finished it, and then it
was like a couple weeks later wefound out it didn't take.
And um so it's like, you know,that painting ended up taking on
a whole new meaning.
(30:17):
But then we went through theprocess again.
Um, you know, there was a lot ofa lot of pain and a lot of work.
I mean, so much of it, like, youknow, it's for me, it was like,
you know, it was the emotionalpain.
But I mean, for my wife, like,you know, those meta, it's the
medicines on top of it, like,because it's like the hormones
(30:39):
and all the things that does toyour body.
Like, um, but you know, it took.
And uh, you know, here we are.
So October 18th, you know, wewelcomed Ezra von Rosenberg into
the world.
So uh, and he's growing like aweed, which I'm like telling
(31:00):
him, like, soon your dad's notgonna be able to hold you
anymore.
He's a big he's a big boy, soyou know, it and that now it's
kind of like what it'sinteresting.
It's like it's interesting, likeit's a perfect example of like,
so I painted that for aparticular reason, something in
anticipation of something, andthen that thing didn't work out,
(31:23):
but then in the end it did, andso it's kind of almost like it's
a little bit like you know, um,you know, maybe he just kind of
knew, hey, you guys aren't readyyet.
So I I'm not I'm not showing upyet, you know.
You you aren't ready, you need alittle more time, you need
another year, another ninemonths.
(31:44):
And so, you know, it was like,okay.
And now he's here.
I don't know that we're anymoreready, you know, but we're
making it work.
SPEAKER_02 (31:53):
I don't know.
You know, he showed up, sosurvey says you must be ready.
SPEAKER_01 (31:57):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
It's hard to tell because allyou know, it's the uh the
communication is just like it'slike the different cries, right?
Like, and and you start tolearn, it's like this one means
I'm hungry, this one means uh Ihave to burp or I'm hot, you
know.
The I have no idea that like thethe gas strict issues were so
(32:19):
difficult, like you know, tummygas or or or burp gas or
whatnot.
I remember being like deathlyafraid of the idea of having to
deal with diapers, you know,because I'm just like, oh gosh,
I'm gonna get I'm gonna get peedon or pooped on or whatever.
And you get over that soquickly.
You know, you get over that soquickly.
And um, and yeah, and that's thethe gap, because it's just like
(32:42):
you you then you start to know,you're like, okay, I know he's
uncomfortable because of XYZ,but like all you can do is like
you know, burp or you know,maybe some like gripe water or
like the bicycle kicks with thelegs, you know, but like
meanwhile, it's like it's gonnawork itself out, it's gonna work
itself out.
Meanwhile, he's you knowscreaming bloody murder, the
(33:04):
only way he knows how.
Like, and he's like, I'm sorry,I'm sorry, I'm trying to make it
better.
SPEAKER_00 (33:09):
It sounds like Ezra is a valuable teacher, too,
because going back to thecontrol issues and that whole
idea of being ready.
Yeah, you're you're never goingto arrive at that point where
things are perfect.
We're always becoming into wherewe need to go next.
SPEAKER_01 (33:33):
Yeah, absolutely.
And so that is a that is alearning process.
I mean, and and um it it itteach he teaches you how to be
patient, he teaches you how tolisten.
Um both of which are things thatlike I'm I'm getting better at,
(33:53):
you know.
Um he teaches you how to valueyour time, you know.
Um like it's it's funny, likeover the past, you know, oh
since I've been on on paternityleave, like I used to, and still
on occasion, I I probablyhaven't touched sat down at my
(34:14):
easel now in a couple weeks, butI have a little bit while I've
I've been on leave.
But like I definitely sit downwith more like intention and
urgency than I used to before.
I used to like kind of take mytime, sit and you know, oh I'll
put a movie on on my computer,you know, and I'll kind of watch
a movie while I paint.
Now I'm just like, no, I'll justpop my earbuds and put on some
(34:36):
music.
And it's like I go, because I'mlike, I got he's taking a nap.
He's gonna maybe I maybe got anhour, hour and a half.
If I'm lucky, and it's time toget some things done.
SPEAKER_02 (34:47):
Um, so it really makes created a search, uh, a an
edge of of urgency.
SPEAKER_01 (34:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It really makes you like valueyour time and um just cut out
all the BS, right?
Like, because it's like youknow, soon like it's like okay,
I'm gonna I'm gonna have to tendto him, or my wife is gonna, or
we're both gonna have to tend tohim or whatnot, and be there for
him.
Because yeah, literally, likethey they have no means of
(35:17):
helping themselves at all, atall.
So, you know, you are you areeverything, and it's it's
wonderful, it's empowering, butit's a lot of pressure, you
know?
And um I think the other part ofnot just like, you know, it's
like every time, you know, he'scrying about something, it's
(35:41):
like trying to solve a puzzle,you know, because there's very
obvious is hungry or does heneed a diaper change, but like
it's like, is he too hot?
Is he too cold?
Is it like, you know, so you tryall these things and you're
constantly and the puzzlechanges like every time.
So there's that patience, but Ialso think I the part of
patience that I'm learning toois it's like as much as I, you
(36:03):
know, he's like this adorablelittle you know, butterball,
like it's um I'm very impatientto know the man he's gonna be
and like share all the likethings with him, you know.
I like here's the music thatdaddy listens to, like, here's
(36:23):
the movie, here's art, like hereis I'm impatient to like, you
know, share the the world withhim because that's how I
communicate, you know.
So I'm impatient for him tounderstand that level of
communication because right nowhe he doesn't, you know, it's
like it's a very it's a veryintuitive level.
So it's like I'm having to learnto be better about those things
(36:47):
and be patient, like all thatother stuff is is gonna happen,
you know, in do in due time.
SPEAKER_00 (36:53):
But I'm I'm hearing the balance is with learning
patience and injecting presence.
Because the the best casescenario is, and if I may invoke
uh Charles Dickens quote, youyou're going to raise a fig tree
(37:13):
in the way that it should growso that in your later years you
can rest in the shade of it.
SPEAKER_01 (37:19):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (37:21):
And enjoy the figs.
SPEAKER_01 (37:23):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
No, and um, so yeah, it's justkind of like it's super
exciting, but it's like, yeah,it's like patience and areas you
didn't even anticipate, right?
And um, and then yeah, justhaving the experience and the
presence, I mean, it opens up itgets the creative brain flowing
(37:46):
too.
So it's also, I'm like, uh, youknow, I'm having all of these
ideas and and um like creativeimpulses, but then also finding
finding the time and also havingthe patience for myself of like
there'll be time for that.
You are gonna get to like, youknow, have time to like paint
and create again.
It's it's all gonna happen andyou're gonna get to share that
(38:07):
with him.
SPEAKER_02 (38:08):
So, you know, uh that's very exciting.
SPEAKER_01 (38:11):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (38:13):
To to be able to share your your love with him
and and probably you couldprobably start to share it
before he's old enough to evenunderstand.
And and you know, it's kind oflike I I think we wait
sometimes.
We wait until we think theyunderstand.
It's like I told somebody theother day, I would be a very
unorthodox parent if I were aparent.
I would teach my children aboutsex before they even understood.
(38:39):
Yeah, because if you say it andthey don't understand, then it
doesn't mean anything.
And if they understand, thenthey're old enough to hear it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That makes sense.
I would I would and I would doit before they reached puberty.
We waited until they're 18 andthey reach puberty at 12,
average age, which doesn't makesense to me.
Yeah, but yeah, that's a wholedifferent topic.
(39:01):
But I I kind of want to shiftgears a little bit and hear a
little bit about how communityor what what role community
plays in your creative process.
Yeah, so as a whole, creative,not just painting, but as a
whole, creative process.
SPEAKER_01 (39:20):
I mean, definitely is um I'm a I'm a sponge.
Uh so I'm always like to be ablelooking and seeing what's out
there, and not just obviouslyI'm primarily a painter, but
like I'm constantly consuming,you know, film, literature,
different mediums, um music.
(39:44):
So, and there's a lot of thatthat informs what I do.
Um, and I'm kind of a pretty bignerd about it.
Like um, I'm usually the personpeople come to for movie
recommendations.
Like I I can I can recommendlike you know, all sorts of
things a lot of times thatpeople have never heard of.
SPEAKER_02 (40:04):
But um You and Dwight have that in common.
SPEAKER_01 (40:07):
Yeah.
Well, yeah, and I, you know,that's that's one of the things,
like it's funny, like um, yeah,having a having a newborn and
you're stuck there on the couch,you put a movie on.
It's like they have no ideawhat's going on.
So I'm like, oh, I totally havetime.
And you know, mom's it's herturn to sleep.
And so I'm like, it's totallymakes sense now to watch all
(40:28):
these like foreign movies that II have in my Amazon queue.
So it's like, all right, buddy,we're watching this uh Russian
warm war film from 1985.
Like it's pretty horrific, butyou're a baby, you're looking at
me, don't worry about it.
So um, but yeah, I I'mconstantly taking everything in.
(40:49):
I I don't get out to galleriesand stuff near as much as I'd
like to.
Uh that's kind of one of the youknow burdens with having like um
you know a a corporate job.
Um, because unfortunately it'slike been a constant like um
gripe of mine is I'm like, Idon't know why always people
like want to start like uhparticularly like a lot of like
(41:13):
gallery shows on like fiveo'clock on a Thursday.
Cause it's like my my work hoursare not like it's not even over
until six, you know.
So I'm just like I'm like, whohas time to deal with because
then you you gotta leave thehouse at 4 30.
Like I'm like, how does thatwork?
So um, but I try and get outthere when when we can, you
(41:35):
know.
We uh we took we took Ezra to gosee uh the open seater studios,
because I've got friends whohave studios and stuff down
there.
So he got he got some to youknow meet some some of dad some
of daddy's friends, you know,and um you know, and some of
them have you know recentlittles too.
(41:56):
So it's like these are gonna beyour buddies growing up, which
is really cool.
Um, because I'm excited for himto grow up in a creative
community and creativeenvironment, you know.
Um and I mean, otherwise though,I would say there are some ways,
like just because like I it'slike I'm very kind of erratic
(42:19):
about getting to shows andthings, that like I think
there's a lot of ways I wouldlike to incorporate community
into my process that I'm notable to sometimes.
Um I like I'm an only child, solike I don't have any siblings,
so I very much have a little bitlike man on an island syndrome
(42:40):
sometimes.
Like I'm I I um I'm a verysocial person, so I'd like to be
out among people.
At the same time, I'm somebodywho can be in a room with by
myself for days, and it doesn'tbother me.
SPEAKER_02 (42:56):
The best of both worlds.
SPEAKER_01 (43:02):
Kind of incorporate some more community aspects into
my work and my process, and youknow, I think that's I think
that's just something that'sgonna take like time, you know,
as I transition and more intobecoming a parent and then you
know, just making some otherlife transitions that you know
(43:23):
we're working on as a family tokind of make things more of a
cohesive unit in the here in thefuture, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (43:30):
So do you think there's ever a time when you
might take your your art studioout of the house and have it
someplace where there might bemore artists?
SPEAKER_01 (43:39):
You know, I yeah, I I'm more open to that than I
ever have been.
Um and you know, I think thatkind of speaks a little bit to
that kind of time and and andplace and where things maybe are
and our lives and and you know,some of my career choices and
things like that.
(43:59):
Because right now it's likehaving it in the house, the
convenience of it is is nice.
It kind of helps like save thattime.
And then also obviously, like umhaving an off spot site space,
it's an extra expense.
So it's like is it right now thecalculation is like, is the
expense justified by how muchI'd be able to go from here over
(44:22):
there to use it, you know.
But that said, it's like, youknow, I've got friends who have
really great setups where it'slike they're able to have their
kiddo in there with them, andyou know, if they're and then a
computer set up, and like iftheir wife wants to come in or
their partner wants to come inand spend time and it's kind of
like it's not just a studio,it's like a family space, but
(44:43):
it's a workspace.
So seeing that kind of exist inum you know, be actualized is I
think a really kind of expiinspiring thing that is making
me kind of reconsider that, butit's still it it needs to, I
need to make sure it have I'mI'm going and using it enough to
(45:05):
justify like the expense, youknow.
SPEAKER_02 (45:07):
I I wonder if there will be a time where there will
be, I mean, when Ezra's not ababy anymore, yeah, and he's you
know, running around like ahouse of fire, and uh the
distractions might be so greatthat you would perhaps need a
space away from the the houseitself where everybody is.
SPEAKER_01 (45:29):
Yeah, yeah.
No, it's a distinct possibility,and and yeah, and I think I
think that's all like part ofthat transition of kind of
making, you know, there's gonnabe a lot of, you know, starting
with this, I think throughoutthe end of this year and into
next year, there's gonna be alot of like, I think for the
(45:49):
better, life changes and stuffthat you know we're working hard
and working towards.
And um I'm optimistic andexcited about it.
And I think I think the root ofa lot of it is also just like I
think there's a little bit ofpart of me that I've been
working on of like, you know, Ithink I'm sometimes a little
(46:10):
bit, I'm a little bit scared ofbeing who I am, you know, and so
it's like really kind ofembracing that and running with
it and going like embracing thatin a way that where it's like
it's gonna be okay and it'sgonna work itself out and we're
gonna be just fine.
And um because it's like notbeing scared, being not being
(46:34):
scared of who you are, it's likeit allows you to kind of really
come into and kind of unlockyour unlock whatever your power
is.
And so I think that's I thinkthere's a part of me that's been
holding back for a long time.
And uh I'm excited that I thinkthat that's gonna change.
(46:55):
And then I'm I'm excited tohave, you know, friends and you
know, like my wife and my newson, who I think are gonna
continue and are continuing toembrace me unlocking that and
really bet on myself.
SPEAKER_02 (47:10):
What a perfect segue into our conversation about
becoming.
Tell tell a little bit more.
I mean, let's be let's bespecific.
What I mean, you you know whereyou are now, and you know what
you've achieved now as acreative, and but it's about
your whole life because youcan't be a creative and not be a
(47:33):
parent and a husband because youare.
SPEAKER_03 (47:35):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (47:36):
In its totality, you know where you are now and you
know who you had to be to gethere.
What is the next step, perhaps,and who will you need to become?
And when I say become, you know,I'm I've learned very quickly to
give this clarification.
You know, when we were kids,they would say, Well, what do
(47:56):
you want to be when you grow up?
Well, I want to be a fireman ina restaurant.
So I'm not talking about thewhat do you want to be?
I'm talking about the who youwant to be.
What you want to be is theexternal process, the who you
want to be is the internalprocess.
Yeah.
Who in here do I need to becometo achieve my dreams that are
out here?
SPEAKER_01 (48:16):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I I think it is, I think one isthere is uh, I I definitely have
like a big um, I have like kindof like a big safe, like there's
a there's a part of my my innerbeing that like or a part of me
that very much thinks aboutsafety, right?
(48:36):
You know, there is there is acautious part of me, which is
really weird.
Like that's also like um becauseit's very counterintuitive to to
being an artist.
Being an artist is not a safe,it's not a safe process.
The the process of putting yourart out where people can see it
and exposing that part ofyourself is not none of that is
(48:57):
safe, you know.
But I think um it is the kind ofentrepreneurial aspect of it.
There is like the really or likeorienting your life and betting
on yourself in a way.
Um that is the part I think thatwhere it's like there's a safety
aspect where it's like I'mworking on and having to learn
(49:19):
to like let go of that.
Like I, you know, the bestanalogy I I can think of is um,
which I'm sure I you know, Ifeel like it, I feel like
everybody's seen uh IndianaJones and The Last Crusade,
right?
You know, and um you know,spoilers for anybody listening
to this, it's like a 30-year-oldmovie at this point.
(49:42):
Like, you know, but uh if youhaven't seen Lyndiana Jones in
the Last Crusade, but you know,at the end, it's like you know,
Indiana Jones, he's having, youknow, to go through the three
tests, right?
So he can get to the the finaltest with like the holy grail.
And there's the one test whereit's like um it's like you know,
was it from a leap a leap with aleap from the lion's head, will
(50:04):
he prove his worth?
And he's standing there, andthere's literally these lion
statues, and there's just thisgiant chasm, right?
And he's looking at it and hejust really he's like, it's a
leap of faith.
You know, it's basically inthis, it's like God is saying,
if you if you have faith, if youhave belief, you will believe
(50:25):
that if you take a leap, and ifyou truly believe, you're gonna
be fine.
You're not gonna fall and tumbleto your death.
And so he he takes that leap,and then obviously you see like
the the optical illusion, right?
Of like how the chasm, the rockslook like the chasm and whatnot.
And so I I think I think that'sI think that's it.
(50:46):
I think it's working up to beable to take that leap for
myself, um you know, and in asmart way, not a reckless way.
I think so.
I think that's the balance ismaking sure, um, you know,
making sure it's like it's it'sdone in a way to where it's like
(51:08):
we're good, we're gonna be takencare of.
So it it it is smart.
I I think like there are thosecautious parts of me that are
don't need to be totallydiscarded.
But I think it's just kind oflike there's believing in
yourself, and then there'sreally believing in yourself.
And so I think that's I thinkthat's I'm really learning to
(51:30):
fully embrace the second versionof that.
SPEAKER_02 (51:33):
Yeah.
I I would, I would just becauseyou have brought this up, I want
to share uh briefly uh of myexperience.
You were talking about safety,and I'm hoping that this will
maybe perhaps give you a littledifferent perspective.
Um I I figured this out maybeabout somewhere around 2017 or
(51:55):
18.
So it's been, you know, six,seven years ago, eight years
ago.
Um most of my life I had exactlywhat you're talking about, you
know, that needing that sense ofsafety.
And I would look for safe peoplein my life.
I would look for safe places inmy life.
Yeah.
(52:15):
And they were rare.
They were very, very rare.
I I've spent a lot of my lifenot feeling safe.
And then there was somethingthat came about, and I can't
even remember what it was now,but somewhere right around 2017
or 18, I realized that I hadbeen looking for looking for
love in all the wrong places.
(52:35):
I'd been looking for safetyeverywhere but where safety
actually existed.
And the big aha moment for mewas you can't find safety out
here.
The safety is in here.
You create the safe space foryourself.
And when I got that, and when Irealized that safety was my
(52:58):
responsibility, and I'm nottalking about driving safe or
not walking in a dark alley atnight.
I'm talking about emotionalsafety.
Yeah.
That putting your art out there,you know, even though it may be
criticized or hated or whatever.
And in that realizing that I wasresponsible for my own safety,
(53:20):
it shifted everything.
I stopped needing safety fromother places and people.
And the odd thing about it waswhen I could feel that safety
from within, then everywhere Ilook, I saw safe people in safe
places.
SPEAKER_01 (53:38):
Yeah.
Yeah.
There, you know, there is athing I heard in an audio book
I've been listening to, um thathas to do it, you know, has to
do with business and selling.
I'll just put it that way.
Uh it's really interestingthough.
And the the line is what youfocus on expands.
SPEAKER_03 (54:01):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (54:02):
Meaning, you know, it is like, and and the example
is like, okay, like let's saythere is there is something.
Uh let's say like you you need anew car and you buy this
particular car that you're like,oh, I really like this car.
And and it's it's you no nobodyI know has this car, right?
(54:23):
And then suddenly when you buyon the car and you're thinking
about the car, then you see thatcar everywhere all of a sudden,
you know, and it's just becauseyou weren't focused on it, you
know.
SPEAKER_02 (54:33):
When your wife got pregnant, all of a sudden,
everywhere you looked, you sawpregnant women.
SPEAKER_01 (54:38):
Yeah, well, because she she didn't get pregnant, it
was because we'd had thesurrogate.
But that's right.
I'm sorry, yeah.
No, no, no worries.
SPEAKER_02 (54:46):
But I'm I'm really awake, I promise.
SPEAKER_01 (54:48):
No, but to your to your point though, to your
point, it you you're you're 100%on point because as we went
through the IVF process, it waslike it was like you know,
people emerging from the woods,and they're all raising their
hands going, like, I I had to doit too.
(55:09):
You know, um it's it's crazy.
It was like all of a sudden itwas like the people were there,
the process was there, and whatwe needed was there.
I mean, um, like just you know,it's like finding the for
example, I mean, you talk aboutlike miracles and what you focus
(55:31):
on expands, like, you know,we're we're going, we're you
know, we're going through thewhole process, and it's the
process of finding someone elseto like physically carry your
child for you.
You know, it's like that's a bigask, right?
And um, and it was just we werehitting dead end and dead end
after dead end, and then out ofnowhere, the um, you know, the
(55:55):
the the woman who ended up beingum our our our surrogate, she is
the daughter of my dad's likebest friend of 35 years.
And they were just kind ofhaving a conversation one day,
and he just kind of my dad'sfriend's like, oh, you should
talk to you should talk to mydaughter.
(56:17):
She she's always she would loveto do that.
She loves being pregnant, youknow, because she's got you know
two kids of her own.
And it happened when we werejust at so many dead ends, and
it just it couldn't have been abetter process.
And now they're you know, notonly helped bring Ezra into the
world, but like they're lifelongfriends of ours and we'll be
(56:37):
continue to be friends of ours.
And that's magical, yeah.
And it's just like it's whatwhat we focused on, it expanded
and it gave us what we needed.
SPEAKER_00 (56:49):
So yeah, I'd I'd like to circle back, if I may.
Um I'd uh when you were talkingabout that realization about
what the stakes were when you uhneeded to when you shifted your
thinking about uh going forsafety or leaning into growth,
(57:11):
it's the same kind of wisdomthat's been written about for uh
for centuries.
Ben Franklin said those whowould give up essential liberty
to purchase a little temporarysafety deserve neither.
SPEAKER_01 (57:25):
My favorite that's my my probably one of my
favorite historical quotes.
No, yeah, it's it's a hundredpercent right.
And it's it's something thatthat comes up in philosophy, it
comes up in mythology.
I mean, you know, it's anotherand and how it weaves itself
into pop culture.
(57:46):
Like I said, you know, it's notjust Indiana Jones.
I think of like the the last ofthe Christian Bale Batman
movies.
Like, how was he finally able toget out of the pit?
He had to make the climb withoutthe rope, he had to do it with
no safety.
He had to embrace the idea thatif he didn't make the jump, he'd
fall to his death.
(58:07):
And so it is, it is a it is athing, it is uh it is
mythological within us, likethese these stories.
Um and I think that I thinkthat's just that's why they're
true, that's why they're right.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (58:24):
So I too want to circle back for a moment and
then then it's nearing our timeto wrap up, but yeah, I want to
circle back and ask you if youcould sum up in a sentence or
two and start your sentence withI am becoming I am becoming the
(58:46):
I am becoming the creativeperson that I've always wanted
to be.
SPEAKER_01 (58:53):
A creative person who is truly free to create not
just for myself, but create acircle for my wife, for my son,
and for all of us to you knowtruly like go forth and live in
(59:17):
like synchronicity and harmonygoing forward.
So that's that's what I'mworking on.
That's what I'm becoming.
SPEAKER_02 (59:24):
How does that feel, Ross?
Perhaps the first time?
SPEAKER_01 (59:31):
Uh a little bit here and there, you know, but no, it
feels good every time I say it,but a little scary.
Yeah, but that's okay.
SPEAKER_02 (59:39):
Yeah.
Yeah, I can I can feel it rightnow.
It's bringing up emotion, isn'tit?
That's beautiful.
Thank you for that.
And I'm gonna say thank you forfor our listeners because
they're this is this is amoment.
SPEAKER_01 (59:56):
Yeah, I and I think part of part of that is me being
a little bit more comfortablesharing things like this.
I'm not I've always not that I'mnot like an emotional person or
I'm not somebody who's in touchwith my emotions or whatnot, but
I I I've always kind ofprojected a little bit of and
found a little value and maybe alittle bit too much stoicism
(01:00:20):
over my life.
And um, you know, just likeanother good quote, Dwight, is
uh, you know, from uh WinstonChurchill.
It is if you ever find yourself,if you ever look, if you're if
you're walking and you lookaround and find yourself in
hell, just keep going.
You know?
And so that's been my approachto so many things, but at the
(01:00:43):
same time, it's like you you cankind of get buried and stuff.
You know, um sometimes you gottalike look up and really look at
the possibilities and thinkmaybe I don't need to just keep
going.
Maybe I have control of theworld around me and maybe I can
(01:01:04):
exert some power on that to makeit a better place for myself and
the people who are in my orbit.
SPEAKER_02 (01:01:10):
We get to fully choose who we become and we get
to fully choose how we show upin life.
SPEAKER_01 (01:01:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:01:17):
And because that's what we're focusing on, that's
what comes about.
SPEAKER_03 (01:01:21):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:01:22):
I'm not saying we have full control, but we
certainly have influence overour reality.
SPEAKER_01 (01:01:28):
A hundred percent.
And I think that's what I'mlearning.
You know, I um that yeah, it'sit's I can choose more readily
how I react to things in theworld in a way to better shape
my reality and to make my dreamsand the dreams for my family
(01:01:49):
come true.
SPEAKER_02 (01:01:50):
I I would love to suggest that you write your I am
statement down.
I am becoming, and it's key toto say I am becoming and not I
want to become.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
And then pause it a little bit.
SPEAKER_01 (01:02:05):
Actualization.
SPEAKER_02 (01:02:06):
Write it down and kind of look at it and tweak it
until it says exactly whatbrought that emotion up a minute
ago.
SPEAKER_03 (01:02:13):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:02:14):
Good stuff, good stuff.
SPEAKER_00 (01:02:16):
It doesn't have to be one and done.
I mean, it's something that youcan revisit often.
SPEAKER_02 (01:02:20):
Oh, yeah.
Because we're uh every day we'rebecoming somebody different than
we were the day before.
Yeah.
It's it's like, you know, whenone of those big rocket ships
heads out into outer space witha specific destiny, it doesn't
stay on course.
It never stays on course.
It veers off course and thenthey have to course correct.
(01:02:41):
And our same way.
SPEAKER_01 (01:02:43):
Yeah.
There was there was a I and Idon't remember, uh, I don't
remember his name, but there wassomebody who was like he he was
a speaker at some years ago atlike one of our companies, like
corporate events, but he talkedabout like how you know the
creative process, and it'sreally true, it's not like or
(01:03:03):
creative process and thecreative and creative
achievement is not really astraight line.
You really you place a bunch ofbets.
You do it all, you're doing allof these things and placing a
bunch of these bets.
And you have to learn how to beflexible on where what is paying
off or where what makes sensetakes you.
(01:03:24):
Because very much when you aregoing like, I'm at point A and I
want to go to point B, like youare gonna rob yourself of
opportunity, you're gonna robyourself of growth by being so
focused on point B.
Because point B might change.
You might realize you need to goto point C.
(01:03:45):
You might maybe you need to goaround point A in a in a circle
for a while.
Like you you don't really know,but you have to you have to
allow for that spontaneity toexist.
You you can't fight it.
SPEAKER_02 (01:03:59):
Those are true words of wisdom, Ross.
Thank you.
I'm I I appreciate listening tothat.
So I I know our our listeners dotoo.
This has been amazing.
SPEAKER_01 (01:04:09):
Yeah, no, thank you so much.
SPEAKER_02 (01:04:12):
You know, thank you so much for your vulnerability
and your realness.
SPEAKER_03 (01:04:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:04:16):
You know, sharing your your your wife and your
child with us.
And it's it's this has beenamazing.
SPEAKER_01 (01:04:24):
Thank you.
Thank you.
I I I couldn't agree more.
This is this is fantastic.
And I definitely like, I don'tknow when y'all are holding more
events and stuff, but I am gonnamake it out to one.
So uh so definitely I I I wantto come out and yeah, continue
to kind of work on actualizingbeing out like in the creative
community more because you know,uh it's something I'm actively
(01:04:48):
trying to work on, you know,being connected more to to to
other people and stuff likethat.
SPEAKER_02 (01:04:54):
You know, what one of the things I almost always
hear from parents, you know, asa hairdresser for 40 years, I
listen to mostly moms, but somedads too.
SPEAKER_03 (01:05:02):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:05:02):
And there is one thing that all parents
eventually realize is that asthey bring children into the
world, that time away from thatchild is uber important.
SPEAKER_01 (01:05:15):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:05:17):
You love them to death, but you gotta have a
break from them.
You gotta have some some of yourown time to grow, to learn, to
express, to feel, to yeah, toconnect.
SPEAKER_01 (01:05:28):
Yeah, yeah.
Because we're all stillindividual people, and you don't
wanna, whether it's a child or arelationship, you don't want to
totally lose who you are insideof another person.
Precisely that's it's kind ofpeople think it's kind of
counterintuitive, but like itit's good, it's ultimately not
(01:05:50):
good.
It's not good for who you are,and it's not good for your
relationship with that thatother person because it's like
if like in the in the in thecase of like myself and my wife,
well, I don't want to losemyself totally in her and vice
versa, because that totallybetrays what the relationship
(01:06:12):
is.
Like part of the reason she'shere is because she likes who I
am, and and the reason I'm hereis I like who she is.
You know, we love who we are,right?
And so then that's the wholething too, is like what we bring
to the table is now as parentsis is who we are and our
experiences.
And if we totally lose ourselvesin that part, then we're losing
that wisdom we can give to him.
(01:06:33):
We're losing that, um, we'relosing all that opportunities
that we can give to him, um, youknow, to help him eventually
navigate through the world,which he's gonna eventually one
day gonna have to do without us,you know.
SPEAKER_02 (01:06:46):
Yep.
I would I would write that downtoo, because there's gonna be a
point when you're gonna need areminder.
SPEAKER_01 (01:06:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:06:52):
You know, and and give her a copy because there's
a time when y'all are gonna needto remind each other because a
child becomes so engrossing thatyou you lose track of that
wisdom sometimes.
SPEAKER_03 (01:07:03):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:07:05):
Good stuff.
Good stuff.
Dwight, you got anything youwant to add?
SPEAKER_00 (01:07:10):
No, we are we're a bit over time, but okay.
This has been fabulous.
SPEAKER_01 (01:07:15):
Well, thank you.
No, I I really appreciate this.
Is this has been great.
I mean, I thought it was gonnabe great, but it's been even
better than I anticipated.
SPEAKER_00 (01:07:23):
So thank you guys for we're so glad that you that
you could do this.
Yes, absolutely.
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