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August 20, 2025 • 19 mins

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Description

In this episode, Deborah Niemann is joined by Chris Gifford, president of the North American Packgoat Association (NAPgA), to talk about the growing challenges that pack goat owners face when it comes to accessing public lands.

Chris explains what goat packing is, how it works, and why goats make excellent trail companions. He also shares the history of NAPgA and its advocacy efforts to keep public lands open to pack goat users in the face of increasing restrictions—most of which stem from unproven concerns about disease transmission between goats and wild bighorn sheep.

If you’ve ever wanted to take your goats hiking or are curious about the barriers pack goat users face, this episode offers both inspiration and insight into an issue that affects animal lovers, hikers, and land use advocates alike.

What You’ll Learn:

  • What goat packing is and how it works on the trail
  • How Chris got involved in goat packing and NAPgA
  • Why some public lands are closed to pack goats—and what the science does not say
  • How to find out if a specific public land is open to pack goat use
  • What NAPgA is doing to protect access to public lands
  • The differences between pack goats and domestic sheep, and why that matters
  • Where goat packing as a sport is headed in the future

Resources Mentioned:

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