November 18, 2024 • 37 mins
Tony Marra joins us in an inspiring discussion on the convergence of running, mental health, and film making. Tony's latest project, "Billy Runs Boston," beautifully captures the emotional and mental aspects of the sport.
Drawing from his own experiences, he explores how running interweaves with personal struggles and triumphs, enriching the film's narrative with genuine depth and resonance.
Tony crafts an independent film with just an iPhone 7, following in the footsteps of pioneering filmmakers like Sean Baker. We uncover the hurdles he overcame, from technical challenges to financial constraints, and the ingenious ways he promoted the film. By collaborating with local running clubs and independent cinemas, Tony not only widened his audience but also fostered a community that celebrates both running and grassroots film making.
We delve into the world of the Boston Marathon's qualifying process and experience the anticipation and determination that define this iconic event.
We wrap up with an invitation to the film's final screening at the Hot Docs Festival, where audiences can engage with Tony in a lively Q&A session. For those unable to make it, the film will be accessible online, ensuring everyone can hear Tony's remarkable journey...For What it's Worth
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Blake Melnick (00:21):
All right, I'm not a runner, not that I haven't
run before, but I've alwaysbeen more motivated by the
destination rather than thejourney.
(00:42):
Running, for me, is somethingthat's necessary in order to
achieve something else.
I run in tennis so I can reachthe ball in time to hit a good
return.
I run in order to make the bus,I run to avoid danger and that
kind of thing.
However, for others, running isa metaphor for life.
(01:04):
To paraphrase Arthur Blank,who's the past president of Home
Depot, running is symbolic oflife.
You drive yourself to overcomethe obstacles you might think
you cannot.
You find inner strength andrealize you are capable of much
more than you thought.
Mina Samuel's life coach andauthor of Run Like a Girl, says
(01:27):
Running shoes have magic in themthe power to transform a bad
day into a good one, frustrationinto speed, self-doubt into
confidence and chocolate cakeinto muscle.
And while I'm not a runner, Iplay golf.
(01:49):
And I play golf because itchallenges me to get outside
myself and the day-to-day thingsthat weigh heavily on my mind,
to search for that state of flowwhere the body takes over from
the mind and the swing becomeseffortless and natural and the
game becomes one I play againstmyself, so maybe I'm a runner
(02:11):
after all, for what it's worth.
Tony Marra (02:17):
Hey, this is Ben Hunter, still cruising the
Sunset Strip where it allstarted, and you're listening to
, for what it's Worth thegreatest podcast on the web with
Blake Melnick.
Check it out for great music,great info.
It's a great podcast.
Blake Melnick (02:32):
Well, welcome to this week's episode of For what
it's Worth.
My guest for this week's showis Tony Mara, the director,
producer, writer of Billy Runs,boston.
An independent film wasreleased this year and Tony,
film in Hand, has been travelingacross Canada for the opening
of the show in all the regionaltheaters, and right now he's in
Victoria, canada.
(02:53):
It's great to have you here,tony.
You and I are old friends.
We've known each other for manyyears.
When I heard about the show, Iwas really quite impressed,
because I've always looked atyou as kind of a hybrid.
You have the soul of an artistand that's where your passion,
your love, comes from, but youhave a pragmatic side too.
In other words, you have to paythe bills, so you also work as
a recruiter for the technologyindustry.
(03:15):
How do you balance your passionand your love for the arts?
You're an actor and you've beenin a number of TV series and
movies, but you have this othersort of commercial or corporate
side.
How do you balance those two?
Tony Marra (03:28):
Yeah, sometimes it's hard.
Thankfully auditioning iseasier because it's not
face-to-face.
Before you'd audition for ashow and you'd have to go in
face-to-face with the castingdirector.
They'd put you on tape and thatwould be three hours out of
your day.
Now it's self-tape, so thathelps a lot.
You can record it at night.
(03:48):
You have to find a reader sooften my wife or my daughter
loves being the reader, so I canrecord that anytime and and
submit it to my agent.
It's trickier.
If I land the job then ofcourse I have to take a vacation
day.
One of the shows I was on wasthe Umbrella Academy and I had
five episodes, so thankfullythat was just one or two days
(04:12):
that I needed to take off.
Now if I were to land a biggerrole then of course I'd have to
quit my day job and take that.
Blake Melnick (04:19):
For the audience's sake.
You are a runner and your movie, billy Runs Boston, is about
running partly.
How did you get this passionfor running?
Were you a runner before youdid this film?
How did that all begin?
Tony Marra (04:31):
so I think all of us were forced to do cross-country
running.
That's true in grade school,right, that was the only thing I
could do baseball, anythingwith a ball.
I didn't have the hand-eyecoordination, so running I
gravitated to early on.
I ran for the cross-countryteam in high school and then I
continued a little bit in my 20s, but not seriously, and then I
(04:52):
abandoned it for about 15 yearsand then I got back into it as a
master's and there's quite avibrant cross-country scene in
Canada.
So with this I just merged myrunning background with my
acting and filmmaking, right.
Blake Melnick (05:05):
Before we jump into the film, and thanks again
for the tickets last night andfor our listeners.
I did see the movie last nightwith Tony.
Thank you again for having meas a guest.
It was terrific.
There were some really uniquethings about this film and I
want to get into kind of whythis movie?
When you and I talked aboutthis before the show, you said
it's really a movie about mentalhealth, with running as a theme
(05:28):
.
Explain that a little bit.
Tony Marra (05:30):
The film is my love letter to the sport of running.
There's a lot of quirky thingsthat I put in there that runners
appreciate, but alsonon-runners.
Blake Melnick (05:39):
It's a window into the world You've said, it's
really a film about mentalhealth.
So how much of this reflectswhat you've been going through
in your life?
Tony Marra (05:49):
I got injured, I qualified for Boston 2022 and I
wanted to still go, even thoughI couldn't race the marathon.
So at that point I decided towrite a screenplay and it's
fiction.
It not a documentary.
A lot of running films are andI did let my imagination go wild
and I went down a couplerunning rabbit holes and mental
(06:12):
health really became a theme.
I can't deny that part of me isis in the film.
I mean the, the billy character.
There are seeds there that areme, maybe even more
subconsciously.
Blake Melnick (06:26):
I mean it's my script Having seen the film.
There is that underlying mentalhealth thread and we'll talk
about that in more detail in afew moments.
You made some reallyinteresting creative decisions.
I guess, partly driven bylimited funds and budgets, you
shot this entire movie on aniPhone.
Tell me about that.
That's a hard thing to do.
Tony Marra (06:46):
I was impressed that Sean Baker shot Tangerine on an
iPhone 5.
With the Moment lens it's ananamorphic lens so it makes it
more cinematic.
You get great flares, and soI'm like, if he did it with an
iPhone 5, why can't everyone?
And so I shot mine on an iPhone7.
Same setup moment lens.
(07:07):
I attached a Rode mic For theoutdoor scenes with his wind I
did need a boom operator like aprofessional sound person.
An iPhone 7 costs $200.
The moment lens is $100.
The mic is $100.
So really under $500, you couldget a pretty good setup.
You shoot it in 4K.
So under $500, you'd get apretty good setup.
You shoot it in 4K so itprojects well on a big screen.
(07:28):
And people ask about thelimitations of that setup.
Maybe technically you probablycan't make a Hollywood film, or
maybe you can with the neweriPhones.
I think it frees you up.
You set it up very quickly, youclean the lens, make sure the
settings are correct and thenyou shoot like it's fast.
You set up so fast so that'svery friendly toward actors,
(07:49):
because actors usually sitaround for half a day in their
trailer, so things can movequickly and you can shoot so
actors love that.
Blake Melnick (07:57):
So, if you don't mind me asking, how much did it
really cost to?
Tony Marra (08:01):
produce this film.
So to film it about $10,000.
And then post-production thatwas another $10,000.
So all in about $20,000.
But yeah, to get a finishedproduct $20,000.
Blake Melnick (08:15):
That's amazing.
So what does that say about thefuture for filmmakers,
particularly independentfilmmakers?
I mean this was a feature film10 minutes, 17 minutes so it was
a full-length film.
Filmmakers I mean this was afeature film, so it was a full
length film.
Maybe the bigger question iswhat's the landscape like for
the independent filmmaker theability to shoot using a
handheld telephones, for example?
Does that open things up forindependent filmmakers, or is it
(08:35):
still a real struggle?
Tony Marra (08:37):
I think, to market it, to sell it, to get a
distribution deal.
It's still a huge challenge,especially if you don't have a
name, or if you don't have aname or if you don't have a big,
a big name producer attached toit.
It's still very difficult.
I I definitely am havingtrouble getting this out there,
but I think to actually make it,everyone can make it.
So if you have a solid script,you have to have some solid
(08:59):
actors.
I think, right and you, yeah,some really talented actors
signed on early and that helpeda bit.
So I think if you have a goodstory and some good actors to
deliver on it, I think everyonecan do it.
Blake Melnick (09:12):
Yeah, and you mentioned again, of course, the
distribution and having a bigname producer behind it being
pretty critical, I guess, interms of getting those
independent films into venues,right into film venues.
You struggled a bit with thatat the beginning.
What decision did you makebecause you didn't have those
big names behind you as aproducer in terms of getting the
venues?
Tony Marra (09:32):
Yeah, I had three or four successful screenings in
Ontario and then one in Englandand I reached out to the cinemas
and I just booked it.
Blake Melnick (09:41):
Did it all yourself.
Tony Marra (09:42):
I did it all myself and then I realized I can
replicate this anywhere.
So I made the decision insteadof just shelving the film, maybe
putting it on Vimeo or YouTube,I decided to incorporate it
with my love of independentcinemas, so these mostly
historic cinemas across Canada.
I decided just every provinceand territory I'm going to
(10:03):
screen it, and in at least onecity B I'm going to screen it
and in like at least one city BCgot three screenings.
I was happy about that.
Yeah, and it was just kind ofbreak the rules a bit and self
distribute and see what happens.
Blake Melnick (10:14):
And you basically approach independent theatres
and smaller theatres, reviewtheatres to screen your film,
and I guess that was a littleeasier than trying to get it
into some of the big cineplextheaters.
But it seems also that you wereable to develop relationships
with the people that are runningthese review cinemas.
You're the ambassador for yourown film, so you started in
(10:35):
Ontario.
Is that where it all?
Tony Marra (10:35):
began Just to test the waters Right, and then the
tour started actually in StJohn's, newfoundland, and then I
moved it across and then I'llgo up north as well.
Blake Melnick (10:45):
So you're touring with your own film as it opens
in these cities across Canada,which is really interesting.
We're going to talk a bit aboutthat.
You do something unique withthe film you actually engage
with members of the runninggroups within these communities.
Why did you decide to do that?
And tell me what you do everytime you go to a new city and
(11:07):
your film is releasing.
What do you do?
Tony Marra (11:08):
In the weeks before I land in the city, I'll reach
out to the running clubs andI'll say I'm coming to town with
this film.
May I join you for a run?
And what I do is I documentthem.
I will video the run and I'vebeen creating Instagram reels
and what I do is I find a localindependent band to accompany
(11:33):
the reel, and that's a lot offun.
I've got to discover some greatbands along the way.
So I think promoting a film, itcan't just benefit me, so I
wanted to also benefit therunning community, highlight
their clubs, and I think that'sa mutual, it's a mutual
beneficial thing and hopefullythey'll come to the film Also
(11:54):
for the independent cinemas.
I've also been creatingInstagram Reels.
I'll record the beautifulfacade and marquee and then I'll
interview one of the employees.
I've been asking them thequestion what is your favorite
film scene?
And it doesn't have to be fromone of your favorite films and
and then I put that up.
So that is mutually beneficialas well.
(12:15):
They, they've enjoyed that, soyou're touching runners, you're
touching musicians.
Blake Melnick (12:19):
You're actually touching everybody because
you're asking people what, whattheir favorite scenes were.
And I know you asked me andwhen he did everything went
blank.
I can't think of a favoritescene, but as time passed I went
oh yeah, I do have somefavorite scenes that are
memorable, that I can recall.
That question what's yourfavorite scene?
Why is that important?
Why do you think it's important?
Tony Marra (12:38):
I think it's interesting because it's a twist
on what's your favorite film,what's your top three favorite
films, right?
So this is a little twist andwhat got me thinking about it is
a film that I thought waspretty boring overall, but there
was a scene at the end of thefilm.
It's the sheltering sky and thefinal scene really hit 22 year
(12:59):
old tony mara.
Everyone thinks is maybeunlimited experiences like
sunset, sunrises, first kisses,whatnot, and this scene
basically says no, you don'tknow, it could be your last
sunset.
And for a 22 year old whothinks he has the world by the
horns, right, it's true.
And and so every few years thatscene comes back to me, even
(13:20):
though the film overall I Ididn't enjoy.
Have you found the?
Blake Melnick (13:22):
communities to be receptive.
You call the communities to bereceptive.
You call the head of therunning club.
I guess they're somehowpublished somewhere.
Every town has a running cluband you call them.
What's their reaction,generally speaking?
Tony Marra (13:35):
Sometimes I contact them through Instagram or
Facebook.
Sometimes I can find the emailaddresses and overall they're
very welcoming.
They want new people or evenpeople traveling.
Sometimes people miss emailsand whatnot, so that there's
usually one or two clubs thatwill respond.
Timing has to be right as well.
When do they run and am I inthat town when they are running?
(13:58):
But some clubs have actuallyadded as an extra run to
facilitate me, so that's great.
There's been a couple citieswhere I've run with two clubs
while I'm there, and how manypeople come out for these runs.
It varies.
For instance, in Victoria,there were two people that came
with me and showed me around.
In Calgary, there were 200.
(14:20):
A lot of runners in Calgary.
I just hooked up with thebiggest club in St Catharines,
ontario.
There were again 200.
Yeah, a lot of runners inCalgary.
I just hooked up with thebiggest club in St Catherine's,
ontario.
There were again 200.
Blake Melnick (14:28):
Yeah, it's quite amazing.
I learned a lot from seeing thefilm about the culture of
running clubs and running.
That was interesting to mebecause I really didn't know
that much about it.
To me it was just a bunch ofpeople get together and run
around.
I never really got it, but I dounderstand that people are
passionate about it.
Let's talk about the film.
I love the film.
That's why I wanted you to talkabout how you created it on the
limited budget you did, Becauseif you hadn't told me that, I
(14:52):
wouldn't have thought that I'veseen lots of independent films
over my life, Some good, somebad.
I really like this film andthere were things that you did,
and I should tell the listenersthat after every show you do a
Q&A with the audience.
Why do you do that?
Tony Marra (15:07):
Short answer.
It's fun for me.
I love it.
I love putting the film outthere, giving it to the audience
members it's theirs and thenthem coming back to me with
their ideas or theirinterpretations, and I feel
their interpretation is as validas my original ideas.
People have brought up allkinds of points that I find
(15:28):
really interesting.
That's the main reason, I think.
Also experiencing a filmtogether as a group, that's fun.
Blake Melnick (15:34):
I found the comments from the audience last
night to be quite insightful andmade me think a lot.
The film itself I found itriveting.
My attention didn't waverthroughout the film, even though
I'm not a runner and that's nota theme that necessarily I
would be drawn to.
But I thought the humanness ofthe film was extraordinary and
you had some pretty good actors.
Let's talk about yoursupporting cast in this film.
Tony Marra (15:57):
I have quite a number of friends in my
neighbourhood that areprofessional actors Valerie
Nahajar, who's done a bunch ofBruce McDonald films.
She plays my sister and sheagreed early on.
She's very supportive.
There are a lot of no's whenyou're trying to make a film.
The person who played mybrother is a non-actor who has
(16:18):
some health issues and was veryopen to playing the role.
Blake Melnick (16:22):
Well and he was extraordinary.
And to give the listeners asense of the context of this,
without trying to give away theending, this is a story about a
young man that's living with hisbrother and his sister in a
house.
Their parents have died Atleast that was my takeaway.
You never really find out toomuch backstory on them, but
they're living together undersome pretty tough economic
(16:43):
conditions.
They don't have a lot of money.
Billy, the star of the showplayed by you, is a runner, but
he's also a caregiver.
He's looking after his brother,who seemed simple, much like
Forrest Gump.
He was very childlike Watchingyou engage with him in the film.
It was like a father and achild, and he's a very large man
(17:04):
, looked a lot like Jerry Garcia.
I have to say I really felt thisconnection between the two of
you.
There was tremendous empathythat he was able to convey in a
nonverbal way and obviously itwas very apparent to anybody
watching the film that you andhe had a very special and close
relationship, even though therewas not a lot of verbal
communication.
And then you had a sister whowas mean.
(17:28):
She seemed really mean, atleast at the outset of the film.
But what I loved about what youdid is you didn't fall into the
classic traps.
I see in a lot of films thathackneyed thing where you've got
good versus evil and nothing inbetween.
I felt great empathy for allthe characters, even the sister
who I thought was a despicablecharacter.
But then as the film progressedI realized no, it's not quite
(17:51):
that simple and you didn'tinclude music.
It was pretty stripped down.
Let's talk about some of thosedecisions and what you were
trying to convey to the audience.
Tony Marra (18:02):
I really love dogma films, the Danish movement in
the 90s.
They have some strict rules.
I don't follow the strict rules, but one rule I thought I would
experiment with is they don'thave any sound, any music.
You will have music if, say,there's a radio actually in the
scene playing music, but there'sno adding music.
(18:23):
And I thought of that and Iresearched, I actually googled
films without music and there'sa whole bunch of them.
A lot of swedish movies, butalso no country for old men, my
favorite author cormac mccarthythere you go.
So I'm like, okay, if, if a bigfilm like that massive success,
if they can do it, then then whynot me?
I edited the film as well.
(18:43):
When I watched it without anymusic, I'm like, okay, this
could.
Blake Melnick (18:46):
Yeah, this is working there was a comment by
somebody in the audience lastnight and he brought this up and
said well, there was no cue forme to feel a certain way, and
he said so.
As a result, in some of thosescenes I felt really
uncomfortable and I thought,yeah, you're right, because
there were scenes in there thatwere uncomfortable to watch and
there was nothing to break thattension vis-a-vis music or sound
(19:09):
effects.
So I think if that's what youwere trying to achieve, I think
that you were obviously quitesuccessful.
So the story is about thisyoung boy, billy, and he's a
runner and every morning heleaves his house and there's
usually some tension within thefamily.
His sister is not verysupportive of anything that he's
trying to do in his life andshe feels resentment towards him
(19:31):
, and early on in the film shesaid our dad left because of you
, it's your fault.
So there was a lot of blamebeing placed on Billy by his
sister, and yet Billy was theprimary caregiver for his
brother, but he would leaveevery day and he would meet up
with the club and he'd gorunning.
It was quite clear that Billywas the impoverished runner.
Everybody else had high-techgear and new stuff and I think
(19:52):
members of the club recognizedthat Billy didn't have that and
you make the point in the filmas your character, billy.
I'm a cross-country runner.
I don't have all this fancystuff.
I started old school schooljust running for the sake of
running.
So there was a lot of crossoverthemes in the film.
Technology was one of them.
What are you trying to conveyabout technology?
(20:13):
Again, I don't want to giveaway too much of the film, but
there's some commentary ontechnology in our society.
Tony Marra (20:20):
When I started running, we would Throw on a
pair of running shoes.
At very most we would have likea Timex Ironman.
It wasn't GPS at the time andthat was just to do splits.
When you're doing morestructured workouts In a way, I
long for those days thesimplicity of just going out
Going, yeah, yeah.
And now you see a lot of gear.
It's big business and I think alot of that stuff is
(20:44):
unnecessary.
I don't want to criticizepeople that are into it.
I think a lot of that stuff isunnecessary.
I don't want to criticizepeople that are into it, but
there's a bit of that and theBilly character.
I think he goes down that routeand whether or not it works for
him.
Blake Melnick (20:57):
Viewers will have to.
I think it was a way for him toexplain why he didn't have the
latest gear too right, exactly.
And again, here's an area whereyou didn't fall into a trap and
I thought you were going to, I.
And here's an area where youdidn't fall into a trap and I
thought you were going to, Ithought we were going to see
scenes where Billy was not inthe frame or not in that scene
or coming in, and you had sometalk amongst the other club
runners about oh, here comesBilly.
Again he doesn't have the gear.
We feel sorry for Billy.
(21:19):
None of that, which, again, Ithink that was an obvious trap
that most people would havefallen into because I kept
waiting for it.
Obvious trap that most peoplewould have fallen into because I
kept waiting for it and youdidn't do.
Tony Marra (21:30):
It.
Was that intentional.
I needed the run group to beBilly's escape and really where
he was the happiest.
Blake Melnick (21:34):
I just needed that safe space for him and he
obviously felt it was a safespace and, as you say, that was
his escape from his day-to-dayand the tensions that he was
dealing with, because his familywas receiving social assistance
and there were some scenes inthe film where the social worker
came by and Billy's sister wastaking all credit for everything
that was going on in the house,but in fact it was Billy that
(21:56):
was really looking after hisbrother and the house and
cooking and doing all of thatkind of thing.
Another trap that would be easyto fall into Billy never
expressed deep resentmenttowards the treatment he was
receiving from his sister.
Again, I thought it was reallyinteresting.
You just didn't fall into thosecliches that I see in a lot of
films.
Does this come to mind whenyou're doing it?
Were you thinking like thatwhen you were making the?
Tony Marra (22:18):
film.
You know what's interesting?
Back to my point of people'sfeedback.
What you just raised, it neveroccurred to me, so it's really
fascinating for you to talkabout those pitfalls.
Maybe it was down lock that Ididn't fall into those traps,
I'm not sure.
It's something for me to thinkabout.
Which is great, the feedbackfrom audience members.
Yeah, I'll think about it, butI can't remember any moment
(22:41):
where I said, okay, I don't wantto do that.
Blake Melnick (22:43):
But as a result, I think the film was really
authentic and I thoroughlyenjoyed it.
And it was a very reflectivefilm because you and I talked
about it beforehand.
You said you know it is aboutmental health, the dynamic of
the family and Billy and hissister and brother.
I started to reflect on similaror parallel experiences in my
own life with people I know andI was going yeah, those are
(23:04):
impactful things.
So I felt empathy towards allthe characters, even Billy's
sister by the end, because youcould understand why she was the
way she was, given that she hadto take over running the family
when she was 18 years of age.
Her dreams were put on hold andnever realized.
And then Billy has an outlet,he's a runner and she's
(23:25):
resenting the fact that he'sgetting some recognition.
Now again, you, as Billy, wereself-promoting in the film, as
you do with the film, but in thefilm itself, billy is
self-promoting through Instagram.
I thought this was reflectiveof our culture, right, the
influencing culture.
Look at me, look at me, thekind of narcissistic world we
live in.
Really, I mean, it's all abouttaking pictures of yourself here
(23:48):
and there and yourselfpromoting and creating in my
mind a false sense of selfbecause you're looking for
validation through social mediaplatforms and through other
people giving you likes andthumbs up and stuff.
But it's also, on the positiveside, a way to connect with your
community.
And I think in the film the factthat Billy didn't have any
money and had an old flip phoneand getting an iPhone was a big
(24:13):
deal because that allowed him toconnect and step beyond his
somewhat challenging life intothe virtual community of runners
, not just within his ownneighborhood and the people he
ran with, but everybody elsethat was running.
And when Billy and his decision, supported by his friends at
the running club decides hewants to see if he can qualify
for the Boston Marathon, thatwas almost like the breakout
(24:36):
moment for Billy and his sisterclearly resented that because
she didn't have that and it's adynamic that happens in families
right between siblings.
So I found that very relatable.
I don't know a lot aboutrunning.
I don't know a lot about theBoston Marathon, so tell me what
it means to qualify for theBoston Marathon.
I know you qualified but didn'trun, which also played in the
(24:56):
film.
I won't give that away.
But what's involved?
Tony Marra (25:00):
Yeah, so I did qualify and ran the 2017 Boston
Marathon.
It's a difficult marathon toget into because so many people
want to run it and you have tohave run a marathon within kind
of a time frame where you haveto run a certain time and submit
that to the Boston Marathon anddepending on how many people
(25:23):
will try to get in willdetermine if that time will get
you in, I see.
Blake Melnick (25:29):
So there's no sort of set pace, it's just
relative to everybody elsethat's trying to get in.
Is that how it works?
It's both.
Tony Marra (25:35):
My qualifying time that I needed to run was three
hours and 20 minutes.
Now, if I ran three hours and18 minutes, it's a BQ, a Boston
qualifier, but that doesn'tnecessarily get you in.
If there's too many applicants,they may only take runners that
have run three hours and 16minutes, so it's a bell curve,
(25:58):
right?
Yes, so there's a period whereyou will register and you won't
know until a month later whetheryou're actually in Kind of like
the recent BC election.
Oh, yeah, yeah, exactly yeah,yeah.
So it's quite a thrill.
What they've done is they'vemade the qualifying times even
more difficult this year, justso that people aren't
(26:21):
disappointed that if theyactually do BQ and they don't
get in, that's not a greatfeeling.
So they're trying to make it sothat people are not in that
position.
So if you do run a qualifyingtime, then chances are you'll
get in and are there divisions.
Blake Melnick (26:36):
I'm assuming there's professional runners
that are running the marathon.
How can an amateur likeyourself or Billy compete
against people that do this fora living?
How do they differentiate or dothey Well?
Tony Marra (26:46):
the elite runners there, they'll be invited.
I think any marathon wantselite runners to participate,
right, boston elites want to dothat anyway, or any of the
majors.
And now for the rest of us it'sbroken down by age category.
So the older you get, there'smore grace.
So if you're 20 years old, Ithink you you have to run like
(27:06):
two hours, 50 minutes, like veryfast, and then every five years
I think they give you a bitmore, uh, grace do you get a
pass, like if you've already runit the year before?
Blake Melnick (27:17):
do you get an automatic invite or do you still
have to qualify?
Tony Marra (27:20):
you still have to qualify and sometimes you can
qualify with that bostonmarathon.
If you've run a fast time in b,that's your Boston qualifier
for next year, the followingyear, but if you run a slow
marathon in Boston, you'll haveto run another marathon with
that qualifying time, Gotcha.
So in the film, how old wasBilly?
(27:40):
Billy is between 50 and 55.
And when I filmed it thequalifying time was 3.20.
Blake Melnick (27:47):
It was fascinating watching the scenes
from the marathon.
Is this the biggest marathon inthe world, profile-wise,
size-wise, how many people runin the Boston Marathon?
Tony Marra (27:55):
I'm not sure which is the largest marathon
numbers-wise participants, butit's around 50,000 people.
For North America, I would saythat's the main prestigious
marathon.
I'm one of the top three, forsure.
For North America, I would saythat's the main prestigious
marathon.
I'm one of the top three, forsure.
Berlin's massive, London'smassive.
But yeah, Boston is probablytop three.
(28:16):
No matter where you are in theworld, Tokyo is a massive
marathon.
There's six majors Tokyo,Chicago, Boston, London, Berlin.
What am I missing one?
I wish I could help.
Blake Melnick (28:31):
What I love in the running scenes during the
marathon.
This is a big deal, like thecity comes out and there's
thousands of people watching themarathon and people are very
supportive of the participants.
So all of those shots that youdid, those were real shots right
From the marathon itself thecrowd cheering and the high
fives and those people werepassing.
You were passing.
That was real.
Tony Marra (28:51):
Yeah, that was real.
And the Boston Marathon it'srun on a Monday, which is unique
.
Most marathons are on theweekend, but the Monday everyone
has the day off and it's a bigparty.
So they really show up.
They're great spectators andyou feel love, you feel like
you're an elite runner at points.
Blake Melnick (29:09):
But of course you have to self-fund your trip
there and Billy had to pay forthat and luckily he got a lot of
support from his friendshelping him with his running kit
and new shoes, so he didn'thave to run in his old shoes and
presumably new socks, becausethe socks that Billy wore in the
film were pretty ugly.
Tony Marra (29:28):
Yeah, those major marathons.
Any race now is very expensive.
Even a 10k will cost you $80sometimes.
What's interesting is they havethese park runs around the
world.
I think it started in Englandand that's back to basics.
You show up on a Saturday, Ithink you pay 10 or 20 dollars
and you run a 10k race, whereasthe other races are really hard
for people who might not havethe money when you're qualifying
(29:49):
for these races, the marathons?
Blake Melnick (29:50):
how are they measuring your times?
How are they tracking that tomake sure that the times that
they're legitimate, or thenumbers, right Like how's that
done it's?
Tony Marra (29:59):
pretty high tech now .
When I first started running,it was a gun at the beginning.
Yep, now you have a chip onyour bib, like the number behind
it.
There's a chip, and so theyhave timing mats at the start,
at different intervals At amarathon it might be every 5K or
so and so you cross the timingmat and it records your split,
(30:20):
and then you cross the finishline and that's your finishing
time.
Blake Melnick (30:22):
What's?
Tony Marra (30:22):
a split.
A split so a 5K split.
So there'll be a timing mat atthe 5K and that's what you've
run for the first 5K and then,if you pass the 10K timing mat,
that'll be your 10K split.
You can see what your pace isfor that, which is insightful.
Are you slowing down?
Are you speeding up?
A well-run marathon should bepretty consistent.
Blake Melnick (30:44):
And the Boston Marathon is how many miles,
kilometers?
Tony Marra (30:47):
26 miles, 42.2 kilometers.
Blake Melnick (30:50):
So, going back to your splits, that's split up
into legs like 5K segments.
Tony Marra (30:56):
In other words, when you run those things, or no, so
they have the kilometer markersalong the way, okay, and then
those timing mats.
So that's where the watch comesinto play, Right?
Blake Melnick (31:05):
so you know.
Tony Marra (31:06):
Yeah, you'll know, because you could start way back
in the field so you don't crossthat timing mat the start
timing mat for a while, so youcan't necessarily rely on the
time that you see on the rightdisplay right and that's why
people have the watches so theycan self-monitor themselves
(31:26):
along the way.
Blake Melnick (31:26):
Yeah, okay, interesting.
I want to jump back to your q aafter the show.
I'm trying really hard not togive away too much of this movie
, but I think it's interestingthat you're taking the approach
to ask audiences for theirinterpretation of your film,
which is something that theplaywright, sam Shepard, did.
You write something, youproduce something, you perform
(31:47):
something.
Sometimes, if you'reopen-minded, you say this is
what I think it was about, orthis was my intention when I
created it.
But what do you think?
So what do you do with thatfeedback, internally or
externally?
Because this is an ongoingproject.
You used to do Another numberof cities to go to.
You're off to the Yukon.
Tony Marra (32:08):
Whitehorse, Yellowknife and then Iqaluit
Right.
Do you do anything with allthis feedback that you get?
I enjoy it, I savor it and I'mnot sure if it will inform any
writing in the future You'recollecting lots of material and
content as you go.
Blake Melnick (32:22):
You're filming the running clubs.
I know yesterday you had achance to go out with a
gentleman who runs the runningstore in Victoria and you
mentioned to me he's quite wellknown.
Tony Marra (32:31):
Yeah, Rob Reed from Frontrunners Right.
Blake Melnick (32:33):
You're giving people lots of profile, you're
having lots of conversations inthe back of your mind.
Is there something forming forthe future?
Tony Marra (32:41):
for it I don't think I'll ever do another running
film, so this is more kind of myswan song, just to meet up with
the running groups and enjoythat and learning more about
especially regional scenes.
But yeah, I don't know, younever know how things will
inform your work, what ideaswill pop up.
(33:02):
I think It'll be interesting tosee.
I don't know and this was adiscussion with my wife I don't
know what will become of thistour.
Right, and I still feel thatway.
Blake Melnick (33:13):
So the reason I asked you the question about
what you do with all thisfeedback and whether that's
creating some ideas about whatyou might do in the future with
all of this material that you'vecollected, when you hear all
this feedback from people.
And so I'm going to ask you thequestion what is Billy Runs,
boston, all about?
This is your chance to promoteyour film.
(33:34):
I assume you're going to.
After your cross-country touris all done.
You're going to do somethingwith it.
Are you going to seekdistribution?
Tony Marra (33:42):
yeah, I hope so.
There's one final screening intoronto.
Okay, at the hot dogs onnovember 20th.
Uh, that will.
It's a big great big deal.
it's about 600 seat, uh theater.
Yeah, I'll invite people whohopefully can find a home for it
.
At very least I'll put itonline and allow people to enjoy
it.
But yeah, that feedback I thinkmost importantly is it's a
(34:05):
confident booster, and I thinkthat has been so key is just
saying maybe I can do this andso that feedback, I enjoy it but
also it validates.
Okay, I made the right decisionto want to tour and put it out
there, so I'm going to give youthe final word, the pitch.
Blake Melnick (34:21):
You've got a few more dates on your cross-country
Canada tour and then you'reback in Toronto.
So here's your opportunity topitch your film for those in
Toronto that plan on attendingHot Dogs and tell them why they
should come and see Billy RunsBoston and tell them why they
should come and see Billy RunsBoston.
Tony Marra (34:36):
Well, I think it's a film, it's?
Blake Melnick (34:38):
interesting.
It's hard when people put youon the spot.
Tony Marra (34:41):
I think it's an important film.
It started off as a runningfilm and that mental health
piece is really resonating withpeople, whether it be people in
the industry or in the field ofsupporting people at risk or
people who have been bullied inthe past.
Those are the people that aremost passionate about the film.
(35:01):
Yes, runners enjoy it, sure,but I'm getting feedback from
all kinds of people andsometimes at the q a's and
sometimes afterwards I'll getemails and that I feel really
great about.
There's a joke there's a clubsaround the world called the Hash
House Harriers and their mottois they're beer drinkers with a
running problem.
So I play on that.
(35:24):
I say Billy Runs.
Boston is a film about mentalhealth with a running problem.
Blake Melnick (35:29):
Right.
I think it appeals to a muchbroader audience.
I'm not a runner and I loved it.
I thought it was great.
Good luck on the rest of yourtour Fantastic film, and I'll do
a plug for you as well.
I think anybody in Torontothat's planning on attending the
Hot Dogs Festival should checkout Billy Runs Boston.
Tony, thanks again for takingthe time today, and I know
you've got to catch a flight, sowe'll bid our audience adieu
(35:56):
and we'll catch up with you downthe road.
Thanks, blake.
Thanks for having me.
This concludes our episode,billy runs boston, with my guest
director, producer and actor,tony mara.
And don't forget, the lastscreening of tony's movie is at
this year's hot dogs festival intoronto on november 20th 2024
at 7 pm.
So make sure you grab sometickets and be sure to hang
(36:17):
around for the Q&A with Tonyafter the show.
And if you can't make it to theHot Dogs Festival, tony will be
streaming the show on Vimeo andYouTube and will provide some
links within our show notes andour blog page to update you
about that.
And, as usual, I'll be postingmore information about Tony and
his remarkable cross countryjourney with his film Billy Runs
(36:38):
Boston on the show blog pagefor whatitsworthpodcastcom.
You can also check out links inthe show notes for the episode,
as well as on our Facebook pagefor what it's Worth the podcast
series, and I wanted to let youknow that we have introduced a
new capability for you, ouraudience, to send us a message
about your thoughts or commentsabout any episode of the show.
(37:01):
If you have any questions forour guests, you can send those
along as well.
You'll see a comment link sendus a text at the top of the show
notes for every episode.
Well, I've been off the air forquite some time now, for both
personal and professionalreasons, which I'll explain in a
later episode of the show.
But in the immortal words ofSteven Tyler, I'm back in the
(37:24):
saddle again for what it's worth.
All right, I'm not a runner, not that I haven't
run before, but I've alwaysbeen more motivated by the
destination rather than thejourney.
(00:42):
Running, for me, is somethingthat's necessary in order to
achieve something else.
I run in tennis so I can reachthe ball in time to hit a good
return.
I run in order to make the bus,I run to avoid danger and that
kind of thing.
However, for others, running isa metaphor for life.
(01:04):
To paraphrase Arthur Blank,who's the past president of Home
Depot, running is symbolic oflife.
You drive yourself to overcomethe obstacles you might think
you cannot.
You find inner strength andrealize you are capable of much
more than you thought.
Mina Samuel's life coach andauthor of Run Like a Girl, says
(01:27):
Running shoes have magic in themthe power to transform a bad
day into a good one, frustrationinto speed, self-doubt into
confidence and chocolate cakeinto muscle.
And while I'm not a runner, Iplay golf.
(01:49):
And I play golf because itchallenges me to get outside
myself and the day-to-day thingsthat weigh heavily on my mind,
to search for that state of flowwhere the body takes over from
the mind and the swing becomeseffortless and natural and the
game becomes one I play againstmyself, so maybe I'm a runner
(02:11):
after all, for what it's worth.
Tony Marra (02:17):
Hey, this is Ben Hunter, still cruising the
Sunset Strip where it allstarted, and you're listening to
, for what it's Worth thegreatest podcast on the web with
Blake Melnick.
Check it out for great music,great info.
It's a great podcast.
Blake Melnick (02:32):
Well, welcome to this week's episode of For what
it's Worth.
My guest for this week's showis Tony Mara, the director,
producer, writer of Billy Runs,boston.
An independent film wasreleased this year and Tony,
film in Hand, has been travelingacross Canada for the opening
of the show in all the regionaltheaters, and right now he's in
Victoria, canada.
(02:53):
It's great to have you here,tony.
You and I are old friends.
We've known each other for manyyears.
When I heard about the show, Iwas really quite impressed,
because I've always looked atyou as kind of a hybrid.
You have the soul of an artistand that's where your passion,
your love, comes from, but youhave a pragmatic side too.
In other words, you have to paythe bills, so you also work as
a recruiter for the technologyindustry.
(03:15):
How do you balance your passionand your love for the arts?
You're an actor and you've beenin a number of TV series and
movies, but you have this othersort of commercial or corporate
side.
How do you balance those two?
Tony Marra (03:28):
Yeah, sometimes it's hard.
Thankfully auditioning iseasier because it's not
face-to-face.
Before you'd audition for ashow and you'd have to go in
face-to-face with the castingdirector.
They'd put you on tape and thatwould be three hours out of
your day.
Now it's self-tape, so thathelps a lot.
You can record it at night.
(03:48):
You have to find a reader sooften my wife or my daughter
loves being the reader, so I canrecord that anytime and and
submit it to my agent.
It's trickier.
If I land the job then ofcourse I have to take a vacation
day.
One of the shows I was on wasthe Umbrella Academy and I had
five episodes, so thankfullythat was just one or two days
(04:12):
that I needed to take off.
Now if I were to land a biggerrole then of course I'd have to
quit my day job and take that.
Blake Melnick (04:19):
For the audience's sake.
You are a runner and your movie, billy Runs Boston, is about
running partly.
How did you get this passionfor running?
Were you a runner before youdid this film?
How did that all begin?
Tony Marra (04:31):
so I think all of us were forced to do cross-country
running.
That's true in grade school,right, that was the only thing I
could do baseball, anythingwith a ball.
I didn't have the hand-eyecoordination, so running I
gravitated to early on.
I ran for the cross-countryteam in high school and then I
continued a little bit in my 20s, but not seriously, and then I
(04:52):
abandoned it for about 15 yearsand then I got back into it as a
master's and there's quite avibrant cross-country scene in
Canada.
So with this I just merged myrunning background with my
acting and filmmaking, right.
Blake Melnick (05:05):
Before we jump into the film, and thanks again
for the tickets last night andfor our listeners.
I did see the movie last nightwith Tony.
Thank you again for having meas a guest.
It was terrific.
There were some really uniquethings about this film and I
want to get into kind of whythis movie?
When you and I talked aboutthis before the show, you said
it's really a movie about mentalhealth, with running as a theme
(05:28):
.
Explain that a little bit.
Tony Marra (05:30):
The film is my love letter to the sport of running.
There's a lot of quirky thingsthat I put in there that runners
appreciate, but alsonon-runners.
Blake Melnick (05:39):
It's a window into the world You've said, it's
really a film about mentalhealth.
So how much of this reflectswhat you've been going through
in your life?
Tony Marra (05:49):
I got injured, I qualified for Boston 2022 and I
wanted to still go, even thoughI couldn't race the marathon.
So at that point I decided towrite a screenplay and it's
fiction.
It not a documentary.
A lot of running films are andI did let my imagination go wild
and I went down a couplerunning rabbit holes and mental
(06:12):
health really became a theme.
I can't deny that part of me isis in the film.
I mean the, the billy character.
There are seeds there that areme, maybe even more
subconsciously.
Blake Melnick (06:26):
I mean it's my script Having seen the film.
There is that underlying mentalhealth thread and we'll talk
about that in more detail in afew moments.
You made some reallyinteresting creative decisions.
I guess, partly driven bylimited funds and budgets, you
shot this entire movie on aniPhone.
Tell me about that.
That's a hard thing to do.
Tony Marra (06:46):
I was impressed that Sean Baker shot Tangerine on an
iPhone 5.
With the Moment lens it's ananamorphic lens so it makes it
more cinematic.
You get great flares, and soI'm like, if he did it with an
iPhone 5, why can't everyone?
And so I shot mine on an iPhone7.
Same setup moment lens.
(07:07):
I attached a Rode mic For theoutdoor scenes with his wind I
did need a boom operator like aprofessional sound person.
An iPhone 7 costs $200.
The moment lens is $100.
The mic is $100.
So really under $500, you couldget a pretty good setup.
You shoot it in 4K.
So under $500, you'd get apretty good setup.
You shoot it in 4K so itprojects well on a big screen.
(07:28):
And people ask about thelimitations of that setup.
Maybe technically you probablycan't make a Hollywood film, or
maybe you can with the neweriPhones.
I think it frees you up.
You set it up very quickly, youclean the lens, make sure the
settings are correct and thenyou shoot like it's fast.
You set up so fast so that'svery friendly toward actors,
(07:49):
because actors usually sitaround for half a day in their
trailer, so things can movequickly and you can shoot so
actors love that.
Blake Melnick (07:57):
So, if you don't mind me asking, how much did it
really cost to?
Tony Marra (08:01):
produce this film.
So to film it about $10,000.
And then post-production thatwas another $10,000.
So all in about $20,000.
But yeah, to get a finishedproduct $20,000.
Blake Melnick (08:15):
That's amazing.
So what does that say about thefuture for filmmakers,
particularly independentfilmmakers?
I mean this was a feature film10 minutes, 17 minutes so it was
a full-length film.
Filmmakers I mean this was afeature film, so it was a full
length film.
Maybe the bigger question iswhat's the landscape like for
the independent filmmaker theability to shoot using a
handheld telephones, for example?
Does that open things up forindependent filmmakers, or is it
(08:35):
still a real struggle?
Tony Marra (08:37):
I think, to market it, to sell it, to get a
distribution deal.
It's still a huge challenge,especially if you don't have a
name, or if you don't have aname or if you don't have a big,
a big name producer attached toit.
It's still very difficult.
I I definitely am havingtrouble getting this out there,
but I think to actually make it,everyone can make it.
So if you have a solid script,you have to have some solid
(08:59):
actors.
I think, right and you, yeah,some really talented actors
signed on early and that helpeda bit.
So I think if you have a goodstory and some good actors to
deliver on it, I think everyonecan do it.
Blake Melnick (09:12):
Yeah, and you mentioned again, of course, the
distribution and having a bigname producer behind it being
pretty critical, I guess, interms of getting those
independent films into venues,right into film venues.
You struggled a bit with thatat the beginning.
What decision did you makebecause you didn't have those
big names behind you as aproducer in terms of getting the
venues?
Tony Marra (09:32):
Yeah, I had three or four successful screenings in
Ontario and then one in Englandand I reached out to the cinemas
and I just booked it.
Blake Melnick (09:41):
Did it all yourself.
Tony Marra (09:42):
I did it all myself and then I realized I can
replicate this anywhere.
So I made the decision insteadof just shelving the film, maybe
putting it on Vimeo or YouTube,I decided to incorporate it
with my love of independentcinemas, so these mostly
historic cinemas across Canada.
I decided just every provinceand territory I'm going to
(10:03):
screen it, and in at least onecity B I'm going to screen it
and in like at least one city BCgot three screenings.
I was happy about that.
Yeah, and it was just kind ofbreak the rules a bit and self
distribute and see what happens.
Blake Melnick (10:14):
And you basically approach independent theatres
and smaller theatres, reviewtheatres to screen your film,
and I guess that was a littleeasier than trying to get it
into some of the big cineplextheaters.
But it seems also that you wereable to develop relationships
with the people that are runningthese review cinemas.
You're the ambassador for yourown film, so you started in
(10:35):
Ontario.
Is that where it all?
Tony Marra (10:35):
began Just to test the waters Right, and then the
tour started actually in StJohn's, newfoundland, and then I
moved it across and then I'llgo up north as well.
Blake Melnick (10:45):
So you're touring with your own film as it opens
in these cities across Canada,which is really interesting.
We're going to talk a bit aboutthat.
You do something unique withthe film you actually engage
with members of the runninggroups within these communities.
Why did you decide to do that?
And tell me what you do everytime you go to a new city and
(11:07):
your film is releasing.
What do you do?
Tony Marra (11:08):
In the weeks before I land in the city, I'll reach
out to the running clubs andI'll say I'm coming to town with
this film.
May I join you for a run?
And what I do is I documentthem.
I will video the run and I'vebeen creating Instagram reels
and what I do is I find a localindependent band to accompany
(11:33):
the reel, and that's a lot offun.
I've got to discover some greatbands along the way.
So I think promoting a film, itcan't just benefit me, so I
wanted to also benefit therunning community, highlight
their clubs, and I think that'sa mutual, it's a mutual
beneficial thing and hopefullythey'll come to the film Also
(11:54):
for the independent cinemas.
I've also been creatingInstagram Reels.
I'll record the beautifulfacade and marquee and then I'll
interview one of the employees.
I've been asking them thequestion what is your favorite
film scene?
And it doesn't have to be fromone of your favorite films and
and then I put that up.
So that is mutually beneficialas well.
(12:15):
They, they've enjoyed that, soyou're touching runners, you're
touching musicians.
Blake Melnick (12:19):
You're actually touching everybody because
you're asking people what, whattheir favorite scenes were.
And I know you asked me andwhen he did everything went
blank.
I can't think of a favoritescene, but as time passed I went
oh yeah, I do have somefavorite scenes that are
memorable, that I can recall.
That question what's yourfavorite scene?
Why is that important?
Why do you think it's important?
Tony Marra (12:38):
I think it's interesting because it's a twist
on what's your favorite film,what's your top three favorite
films, right?
So this is a little twist andwhat got me thinking about it is
a film that I thought waspretty boring overall, but there
was a scene at the end of thefilm.
It's the sheltering sky and thefinal scene really hit 22 year
(12:59):
old tony mara.
Everyone thinks is maybeunlimited experiences like
sunset, sunrises, first kisses,whatnot, and this scene
basically says no, you don'tknow, it could be your last
sunset.
And for a 22 year old whothinks he has the world by the
horns, right, it's true.
And and so every few years thatscene comes back to me, even
(13:20):
though the film overall I Ididn't enjoy.
Have you found the?
Blake Melnick (13:22):
communities to be receptive.
You call the communities to bereceptive.
You call the head of therunning club.
I guess they're somehowpublished somewhere.
Every town has a running cluband you call them.
What's their reaction,generally speaking?
Tony Marra (13:35):
Sometimes I contact them through Instagram or
Facebook.
Sometimes I can find the emailaddresses and overall they're
very welcoming.
They want new people or evenpeople traveling.
Sometimes people miss emailsand whatnot, so that there's
usually one or two clubs thatwill respond.
Timing has to be right as well.
When do they run and am I inthat town when they are running?
(13:58):
But some clubs have actuallyadded as an extra run to
facilitate me, so that's great.
There's been a couple citieswhere I've run with two clubs
while I'm there, and how manypeople come out for these runs.
It varies.
For instance, in Victoria,there were two people that came
with me and showed me around.
In Calgary, there were 200.
(14:20):
A lot of runners in Calgary.
I just hooked up with thebiggest club in St Catharines,
ontario.
There were again 200.
Yeah, a lot of runners inCalgary.
I just hooked up with thebiggest club in St Catherine's,
ontario.
There were again 200.
Blake Melnick (14:28):
Yeah, it's quite amazing.
I learned a lot from seeing thefilm about the culture of
running clubs and running.
That was interesting to mebecause I really didn't know
that much about it.
To me it was just a bunch ofpeople get together and run
around.
I never really got it, but I dounderstand that people are
passionate about it.
Let's talk about the film.
I love the film.
That's why I wanted you to talkabout how you created it on the
limited budget you did, Becauseif you hadn't told me that, I
(14:52):
wouldn't have thought that I'veseen lots of independent films
over my life, Some good, somebad.
I really like this film andthere were things that you did,
and I should tell the listenersthat after every show you do a
Q&A with the audience.
Why do you do that?
Tony Marra (15:07):
Short answer.
It's fun for me.
I love it.
I love putting the film outthere, giving it to the audience
members it's theirs and thenthem coming back to me with
their ideas or theirinterpretations, and I feel
their interpretation is as validas my original ideas.
People have brought up allkinds of points that I find
(15:28):
really interesting.
That's the main reason, I think.
Also experiencing a filmtogether as a group, that's fun.
Blake Melnick (15:34):
I found the comments from the audience last
night to be quite insightful andmade me think a lot.
The film itself I found itriveting.
My attention didn't waverthroughout the film, even though
I'm not a runner and that's nota theme that necessarily I
would be drawn to.
But I thought the humanness ofthe film was extraordinary and
you had some pretty good actors.
Let's talk about yoursupporting cast in this film.
Tony Marra (15:57):
I have quite a number of friends in my
neighbourhood that areprofessional actors Valerie
Nahajar, who's done a bunch ofBruce McDonald films.
She plays my sister and sheagreed early on.
She's very supportive.
There are a lot of no's whenyou're trying to make a film.
The person who played mybrother is a non-actor who has
(16:18):
some health issues and was veryopen to playing the role.
Blake Melnick (16:22):
Well and he was extraordinary.
And to give the listeners asense of the context of this,
without trying to give away theending, this is a story about a
young man that's living with hisbrother and his sister in a
house.
Their parents have died Atleast that was my takeaway.
You never really find out toomuch backstory on them, but
they're living together undersome pretty tough economic
(16:43):
conditions.
They don't have a lot of money.
Billy, the star of the showplayed by you, is a runner, but
he's also a caregiver.
He's looking after his brother,who seemed simple, much like
Forrest Gump.
He was very childlike Watchingyou engage with him in the film.
It was like a father and achild, and he's a very large man
(17:04):
, looked a lot like Jerry Garcia.
I have to say I really felt thisconnection between the two of
you.
There was tremendous empathythat he was able to convey in a
nonverbal way and obviously itwas very apparent to anybody
watching the film that you andhe had a very special and close
relationship, even though therewas not a lot of verbal
communication.
And then you had a sister whowas mean.
(17:28):
She seemed really mean, atleast at the outset of the film.
But what I loved about what youdid is you didn't fall into the
classic traps.
I see in a lot of films thathackneyed thing where you've got
good versus evil and nothing inbetween.
I felt great empathy for allthe characters, even the sister
who I thought was a despicablecharacter.
But then as the film progressedI realized no, it's not quite
(17:51):
that simple and you didn'tinclude music.
It was pretty stripped down.
Let's talk about some of thosedecisions and what you were
trying to convey to the audience.
Tony Marra (18:02):
I really love dogma films, the Danish movement in
the 90s.
They have some strict rules.
I don't follow the strict rules, but one rule I thought I would
experiment with is they don'thave any sound, any music.
You will have music if, say,there's a radio actually in the
scene playing music, but there'sno adding music.
(18:23):
And I thought of that and Iresearched, I actually googled
films without music and there'sa whole bunch of them.
A lot of swedish movies, butalso no country for old men, my
favorite author cormac mccarthythere you go.
So I'm like, okay, if, if a bigfilm like that massive success,
if they can do it, then then whynot me?
I edited the film as well.
(18:43):
When I watched it without anymusic, I'm like, okay, this
could.
Blake Melnick (18:46):
Yeah, this is working there was a comment by
somebody in the audience lastnight and he brought this up and
said well, there was no cue forme to feel a certain way, and
he said so.
As a result, in some of thosescenes I felt really
uncomfortable and I thought,yeah, you're right, because
there were scenes in there thatwere uncomfortable to watch and
there was nothing to break thattension vis-a-vis music or sound
(19:09):
effects.
So I think if that's what youwere trying to achieve, I think
that you were obviously quitesuccessful.
So the story is about thisyoung boy, billy, and he's a
runner and every morning heleaves his house and there's
usually some tension within thefamily.
His sister is not verysupportive of anything that he's
trying to do in his life andshe feels resentment towards him
(19:31):
, and early on in the film shesaid our dad left because of you
, it's your fault.
So there was a lot of blamebeing placed on Billy by his
sister, and yet Billy was theprimary caregiver for his
brother, but he would leaveevery day and he would meet up
with the club and he'd gorunning.
It was quite clear that Billywas the impoverished runner.
Everybody else had high-techgear and new stuff and I think
(19:52):
members of the club recognizedthat Billy didn't have that and
you make the point in the filmas your character, billy.
I'm a cross-country runner.
I don't have all this fancystuff.
I started old school schooljust running for the sake of
running.
So there was a lot of crossoverthemes in the film.
Technology was one of them.
What are you trying to conveyabout technology?
(20:13):
Again, I don't want to giveaway too much of the film, but
there's some commentary ontechnology in our society.
Tony Marra (20:20):
When I started running, we would Throw on a
pair of running shoes.
At very most we would have likea Timex Ironman.
It wasn't GPS at the time andthat was just to do splits.
When you're doing morestructured workouts In a way, I
long for those days thesimplicity of just going out
Going, yeah, yeah.
And now you see a lot of gear.
It's big business and I think alot of that stuff is
(20:44):
unnecessary.
I don't want to criticizepeople that are into it.
I think a lot of that stuff isunnecessary.
I don't want to criticizepeople that are into it, but
there's a bit of that and theBilly character.
I think he goes down that routeand whether or not it works for
him.
Blake Melnick (20:57):
Viewers will have to.
I think it was a way for him toexplain why he didn't have the
latest gear too right, exactly.
And again, here's an area whereyou didn't fall into a trap and
I thought you were going to, I.
And here's an area where youdidn't fall into a trap and I
thought you were going to, Ithought we were going to see
scenes where Billy was not inthe frame or not in that scene
or coming in, and you had sometalk amongst the other club
runners about oh, here comesBilly.
Again he doesn't have the gear.
We feel sorry for Billy.
(21:19):
None of that, which, again, Ithink that was an obvious trap
that most people would havefallen into because I kept
waiting for it.
Obvious trap that most peoplewould have fallen into because I
kept waiting for it and youdidn't do.
Tony Marra (21:30):
It.
Was that intentional.
I needed the run group to beBilly's escape and really where
he was the happiest.
Blake Melnick (21:34):
I just needed that safe space for him and he
obviously felt it was a safespace and, as you say, that was
his escape from his day-to-dayand the tensions that he was
dealing with, because his familywas receiving social assistance
and there were some scenes inthe film where the social worker
came by and Billy's sister wastaking all credit for everything
that was going on in the house,but in fact it was Billy that
(21:56):
was really looking after hisbrother and the house and
cooking and doing all of thatkind of thing.
Another trap that would be easyto fall into Billy never
expressed deep resentmenttowards the treatment he was
receiving from his sister.
Again, I thought it was reallyinteresting.
You just didn't fall into thosecliches that I see in a lot of
films.
Does this come to mind whenyou're doing it?
Were you thinking like thatwhen you were making the?
Tony Marra (22:18):
film.
You know what's interesting?
Back to my point of people'sfeedback.
What you just raised, it neveroccurred to me, so it's really
fascinating for you to talkabout those pitfalls.
Maybe it was down lock that Ididn't fall into those traps,
I'm not sure.
It's something for me to thinkabout.
Which is great, the feedbackfrom audience members.
Yeah, I'll think about it, butI can't remember any moment
(22:41):
where I said, okay, I don't wantto do that.
Blake Melnick (22:43):
But as a result, I think the film was really
authentic and I thoroughlyenjoyed it.
And it was a very reflectivefilm because you and I talked
about it beforehand.
You said you know it is aboutmental health, the dynamic of
the family and Billy and hissister and brother.
I started to reflect on similaror parallel experiences in my
own life with people I know andI was going yeah, those are
(23:04):
impactful things.
So I felt empathy towards allthe characters, even Billy's
sister by the end, because youcould understand why she was the
way she was, given that she hadto take over running the family
when she was 18 years of age.
Her dreams were put on hold andnever realized.
And then Billy has an outlet,he's a runner and she's
(23:25):
resenting the fact that he'sgetting some recognition.
Now again, you, as Billy, wereself-promoting in the film, as
you do with the film, but in thefilm itself, billy is
self-promoting through Instagram.
I thought this was reflectiveof our culture, right, the
influencing culture.
Look at me, look at me, thekind of narcissistic world we
live in.
Really, I mean, it's all abouttaking pictures of yourself here
(23:48):
and there and yourselfpromoting and creating in my
mind a false sense of selfbecause you're looking for
validation through social mediaplatforms and through other
people giving you likes andthumbs up and stuff.
But it's also, on the positiveside, a way to connect with your
community.
And I think in the film the factthat Billy didn't have any
money and had an old flip phoneand getting an iPhone was a big
(24:13):
deal because that allowed him toconnect and step beyond his
somewhat challenging life intothe virtual community of runners
, not just within his ownneighborhood and the people he
ran with, but everybody elsethat was running.
And when Billy and his decision, supported by his friends at
the running club decides hewants to see if he can qualify
for the Boston Marathon, thatwas almost like the breakout
(24:36):
moment for Billy and his sisterclearly resented that because
she didn't have that and it's adynamic that happens in families
right between siblings.
So I found that very relatable.
I don't know a lot aboutrunning.
I don't know a lot about theBoston Marathon, so tell me what
it means to qualify for theBoston Marathon.
I know you qualified but didn'trun, which also played in the
(24:56):
film.
I won't give that away.
But what's involved?
Tony Marra (25:00):
Yeah, so I did qualify and ran the 2017 Boston
Marathon.
It's a difficult marathon toget into because so many people
want to run it and you have tohave run a marathon within kind
of a time frame where you haveto run a certain time and submit
that to the Boston Marathon anddepending on how many people
(25:23):
will try to get in willdetermine if that time will get
you in, I see.
Blake Melnick (25:29):
So there's no sort of set pace, it's just
relative to everybody elsethat's trying to get in.
Is that how it works?
It's both.
Tony Marra (25:35):
My qualifying time that I needed to run was three
hours and 20 minutes.
Now, if I ran three hours and18 minutes, it's a BQ, a Boston
qualifier, but that doesn'tnecessarily get you in.
If there's too many applicants,they may only take runners that
have run three hours and 16minutes, so it's a bell curve,
(25:58):
right?
Yes, so there's a period whereyou will register and you won't
know until a month later whetheryou're actually in Kind of like
the recent BC election.
Oh, yeah, yeah, exactly yeah,yeah.
So it's quite a thrill.
What they've done is they'vemade the qualifying times even
more difficult this year, justso that people aren't
(26:21):
disappointed that if theyactually do BQ and they don't
get in, that's not a greatfeeling.
So they're trying to make it sothat people are not in that
position.
So if you do run a qualifyingtime, then chances are you'll
get in and are there divisions.
Blake Melnick (26:36):
I'm assuming there's professional runners
that are running the marathon.
How can an amateur likeyourself or Billy compete
against people that do this fora living?
How do they differentiate or dothey Well?
Tony Marra (26:46):
the elite runners there, they'll be invited.
I think any marathon wantselite runners to participate,
right, boston elites want to dothat anyway, or any of the
majors.
And now for the rest of us it'sbroken down by age category.
So the older you get, there'smore grace.
So if you're 20 years old, Ithink you you have to run like
(27:06):
two hours, 50 minutes, like veryfast, and then every five years
I think they give you a bitmore, uh, grace do you get a
pass, like if you've already runit the year before?
Blake Melnick (27:17):
do you get an automatic invite or do you still
have to qualify?
Tony Marra (27:20):
you still have to qualify and sometimes you can
qualify with that bostonmarathon.
If you've run a fast time in b,that's your Boston qualifier
for next year, the followingyear, but if you run a slow
marathon in Boston, you'll haveto run another marathon with
that qualifying time, Gotcha.
So in the film, how old wasBilly?
(27:40):
Billy is between 50 and 55.
And when I filmed it thequalifying time was 3.20.
Blake Melnick (27:47):
It was fascinating watching the scenes
from the marathon.
Is this the biggest marathon inthe world, profile-wise,
size-wise, how many people runin the Boston Marathon?
Tony Marra (27:55):
I'm not sure which is the largest marathon
numbers-wise participants, butit's around 50,000 people.
For North America, I would saythat's the main prestigious
marathon.
I'm one of the top three, forsure.
For North America, I would saythat's the main prestigious
marathon.
I'm one of the top three, forsure.
Berlin's massive, London'smassive.
But yeah, Boston is probablytop three.
(28:16):
No matter where you are in theworld, Tokyo is a massive
marathon.
There's six majors Tokyo,Chicago, Boston, London, Berlin.
What am I missing one?
I wish I could help.
Blake Melnick (28:31):
What I love in the running scenes during the
marathon.
This is a big deal, like thecity comes out and there's
thousands of people watching themarathon and people are very
supportive of the participants.
So all of those shots that youdid, those were real shots right
From the marathon itself thecrowd cheering and the high
fives and those people werepassing.
You were passing.
That was real.
Tony Marra (28:51):
Yeah, that was real.
And the Boston Marathon it'srun on a Monday, which is unique
.
Most marathons are on theweekend, but the Monday everyone
has the day off and it's a bigparty.
So they really show up.
They're great spectators andyou feel love, you feel like
you're an elite runner at points.
Blake Melnick (29:09):
But of course you have to self-fund your trip
there and Billy had to pay forthat and luckily he got a lot of
support from his friendshelping him with his running kit
and new shoes, so he didn'thave to run in his old shoes and
presumably new socks, becausethe socks that Billy wore in the
film were pretty ugly.
Tony Marra (29:28):
Yeah, those major marathons.
Any race now is very expensive.
Even a 10k will cost you $80sometimes.
What's interesting is they havethese park runs around the
world.
I think it started in Englandand that's back to basics.
You show up on a Saturday, Ithink you pay 10 or 20 dollars
and you run a 10k race, whereasthe other races are really hard
for people who might not havethe money when you're qualifying
(29:49):
for these races, the marathons?
Blake Melnick (29:50):
how are they measuring your times?
How are they tracking that tomake sure that the times that
they're legitimate, or thenumbers, right Like how's that
done it's?
Tony Marra (29:59):
pretty high tech now .
When I first started running,it was a gun at the beginning.
Yep, now you have a chip onyour bib, like the number behind
it.
There's a chip, and so theyhave timing mats at the start,
at different intervals At amarathon it might be every 5K or
so and so you cross the timingmat and it records your split,
(30:20):
and then you cross the finishline and that's your finishing
time.
Blake Melnick (30:22):
What's?
Tony Marra (30:22):
a split.
A split so a 5K split.
So there'll be a timing mat atthe 5K and that's what you've
run for the first 5K and then,if you pass the 10K timing mat,
that'll be your 10K split.
You can see what your pace isfor that, which is insightful.
Are you slowing down?
Are you speeding up?
A well-run marathon should bepretty consistent.
Blake Melnick (30:44):
And the Boston Marathon is how many miles,
kilometers?
Tony Marra (30:47):
26 miles, 42.2 kilometers.
Blake Melnick (30:50):
So, going back to your splits, that's split up
into legs like 5K segments.
Tony Marra (30:56):
In other words, when you run those things, or no, so
they have the kilometer markersalong the way, okay, and then
those timing mats.
So that's where the watch comesinto play, Right?
Blake Melnick (31:05):
so you know.
Tony Marra (31:06):
Yeah, you'll know, because you could start way back
in the field so you don't crossthat timing mat the start
timing mat for a while, so youcan't necessarily rely on the
time that you see on the rightdisplay right and that's why
people have the watches so theycan self-monitor themselves
(31:26):
along the way.
Blake Melnick (31:26):
Yeah, okay, interesting.
I want to jump back to your q aafter the show.
I'm trying really hard not togive away too much of this movie
, but I think it's interestingthat you're taking the approach
to ask audiences for theirinterpretation of your film,
which is something that theplaywright, sam Shepard, did.
You write something, youproduce something, you perform
(31:47):
something.
Sometimes, if you'reopen-minded, you say this is
what I think it was about, orthis was my intention when I
created it.
But what do you think?
So what do you do with thatfeedback, internally or
externally?
Because this is an ongoingproject.
You used to do Another numberof cities to go to.
You're off to the Yukon.
Tony Marra (32:08):
Whitehorse, Yellowknife and then Iqaluit
Right.
Do you do anything with allthis feedback that you get?
I enjoy it, I savor it and I'mnot sure if it will inform any
writing in the future You'recollecting lots of material and
content as you go.
Blake Melnick (32:22):
You're filming the running clubs.
I know yesterday you had achance to go out with a
gentleman who runs the runningstore in Victoria and you
mentioned to me he's quite wellknown.
Tony Marra (32:31):
Yeah, Rob Reed from Frontrunners Right.
Blake Melnick (32:33):
You're giving people lots of profile, you're
having lots of conversations inthe back of your mind.
Is there something forming forthe future?
Tony Marra (32:41):
for it I don't think I'll ever do another running
film, so this is more kind of myswan song, just to meet up with
the running groups and enjoythat and learning more about
especially regional scenes.
But yeah, I don't know, younever know how things will
inform your work, what ideaswill pop up.
(33:02):
I think It'll be interesting tosee.
I don't know and this was adiscussion with my wife I don't
know what will become of thistour.
Right, and I still feel thatway.
Blake Melnick (33:13):
So the reason I asked you the question about
what you do with all thisfeedback and whether that's
creating some ideas about whatyou might do in the future with
all of this material that you'vecollected, when you hear all
this feedback from people.
And so I'm going to ask you thequestion what is Billy Runs,
boston, all about?
This is your chance to promoteyour film.
(33:34):
I assume you're going to.
After your cross-country touris all done.
You're going to do somethingwith it.
Are you going to seekdistribution?
Tony Marra (33:42):
yeah, I hope so.
There's one final screening intoronto.
Okay, at the hot dogs onnovember 20th.
Uh, that will.
It's a big great big deal.
it's about 600 seat, uh theater.
Yeah, I'll invite people whohopefully can find a home for it
.
At very least I'll put itonline and allow people to enjoy
it.
But yeah, that feedback I thinkmost importantly is it's a
(34:05):
confident booster, and I thinkthat has been so key is just
saying maybe I can do this andso that feedback, I enjoy it but
also it validates.
Okay, I made the right decisionto want to tour and put it out
there, so I'm going to give youthe final word, the pitch.
Blake Melnick (34:21):
You've got a few more dates on your cross-country
Canada tour and then you'reback in Toronto.
So here's your opportunity topitch your film for those in
Toronto that plan on attendingHot Dogs and tell them why they
should come and see Billy RunsBoston and tell them why they
should come and see Billy RunsBoston.
Tony Marra (34:36):
Well, I think it's a film, it's?
Blake Melnick (34:38):
interesting.
It's hard when people put youon the spot.
Tony Marra (34:41):
I think it's an important film.
It started off as a runningfilm and that mental health
piece is really resonating withpeople, whether it be people in
the industry or in the field ofsupporting people at risk or
people who have been bullied inthe past.
Those are the people that aremost passionate about the film.
(35:01):
Yes, runners enjoy it, sure,but I'm getting feedback from
all kinds of people andsometimes at the q a's and
sometimes afterwards I'll getemails and that I feel really
great about.
There's a joke there's a clubsaround the world called the Hash
House Harriers and their mottois they're beer drinkers with a
running problem.
So I play on that.
(35:24):
I say Billy Runs.
Boston is a film about mentalhealth with a running problem.
Blake Melnick (35:29):
Right.
I think it appeals to a muchbroader audience.
I'm not a runner and I loved it.
I thought it was great.
Good luck on the rest of yourtour Fantastic film, and I'll do
a plug for you as well.
I think anybody in Torontothat's planning on attending the
Hot Dogs Festival should checkout Billy Runs Boston.
Tony, thanks again for takingthe time today, and I know
you've got to catch a flight, sowe'll bid our audience adieu
(35:56):
and we'll catch up with you downthe road.
Thanks, blake.
Thanks for having me.
This concludes our episode,billy runs boston, with my guest
director, producer and actor,tony mara.
And don't forget, the lastscreening of tony's movie is at
this year's hot dogs festival intoronto on november 20th 2024
at 7 pm.
So make sure you grab sometickets and be sure to hang
(36:17):
around for the Q&A with Tonyafter the show.
And if you can't make it to theHot Dogs Festival, tony will be
streaming the show on Vimeo andYouTube and will provide some
links within our show notes andour blog page to update you
about that.
And, as usual, I'll be postingmore information about Tony and
his remarkable cross countryjourney with his film Billy Runs
(36:38):
Boston on the show blog pagefor whatitsworthpodcastcom.
You can also check out links inthe show notes for the episode,
as well as on our Facebook pagefor what it's Worth the podcast
series, and I wanted to let youknow that we have introduced a
new capability for you, ouraudience, to send us a message
about your thoughts or commentsabout any episode of the show.
(37:01):
If you have any questions forour guests, you can send those
along as well.
You'll see a comment link sendus a text at the top of the show
notes for every episode.
Well, I've been off the air forquite some time now, for both
personal and professionalreasons, which I'll explain in a
later episode of the show.
But in the immortal words ofSteven Tyler, I'm back in the
(37:24):
saddle again for what it's worth.
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