Michelle "Mace" Curran: Thunderbirdette

A million words come to mind when describing our next guest….leader, aviatrix, inspirer, maaaajorly awesome human being! With over 1500 hours in the F16, including 163 combat hours over Afghanistan in support of Operation Resolute Support and Operation Freedom’s Sentinel, there’s no doubt that this woman is a true hero and patriot. 

She’s Currently flying her second season with the USAF’s Thunderbirds, paving the way  as Lead solo pilot flying the #5 jet out of Nellis AFB, and serves as the squadron’s chief of standardization and evaluation. 

In this episode we dive into the Major's journey through ROTC, the USAF, Thunderbird training, and her favorite aspects of being a Thunderbird. 

Stick around at the end of the episode we will discuss internal and external pressures and the art of proactive preflight procedures that will help you slow down to facilitate a safer flight!

Episode Transcript

Unknown (00:02):
You're listening to the forever on the fly podcast. Good
morning, afternoon, evening, AVnerds around the global
community. Welcome to thisweek's episode of The forever on
the fly podcast, your bi weeklydose of aviation inspiration,
education and entertainment. Myname is Diane dollar.

(00:23):
And I am Jose Hernandez.
We're here joining forces to getyou guys aviation. So that was
pretty tricky because right nowJose and I are on Zoom because I
am no longer in Los Angeles.
I know you left meI'm sorry. I'm sorry. I had to

(00:44):
spread my wings and fly to theeast coast or drive to the East
Coast. That was a that was along drive. Man. That was pretty
long. ButI know, I can't believe it took
you that long, you know, on thefour or five nights

(01:06):
you know, I had to make a pitstop and take SAS for a couple
of weeks and did some trainingthere with another kind of group
of private owners type of adeal. That was pretty good. Got
to fly. You see see 120 EC 130and did a couple of flights and

(01:31):
the bell two of six. Oh, really?
Yeah. Yeah. Did my did my firstdolly landing in a couple of
years.
Wow. Did you? What one do youlike better? The UC 123. I know
you haven't flown on before andor two? Right? Yeah.
I have wanted to six a cup oflike 16 hours in a to six very

(01:53):
long time ago, I did a turbinetransition course when I was
going through flight school.
Would you want to upper limitwhich by the way
is which, by the way, ifanybody's thinking they're in
flight school, and they'rethinking they want to take a
turbine transition course, it isnot worth the moolah. And the

(02:13):
only reason why I was able to doit was because the GI Bill was
paying for it. So it was acollege credits for me. But that
school has now lost theirprivileges. And now I didn't go
to upper limit. I went toUniversal helicopters. Gotcha.
Gotcha. Yeah. But yeah, youknow, I actually enjoyed flying

(02:35):
the EC 120 A lot, which is I didyou know, it gets a bad rap. A
lot of people don't talk aboutit, but I really enjoyed it,
because it's smaller than ac 130The tail rotor is not boosted.
But it was a lot easier to movethe pedal so I felt more
comfortable in there because I'mso used to flying a star's and
you know, having my having mytail rotor hydraulically boosted

(02:59):
and an AC 130 hopping in there,it was a little funky at first,
you know, kind of kind of weirdto get used to, again, with the
pedals being so heavy, and Ididn't really like I didn't
really like it too much. Butyeah, but easy. 120 was super,
was super cool. I mean, as longas it's not loaded up. I mean,
you get a bunch of people inthere. You know, it doesn't

(03:20):
perform too great. But if it'sjust you and one other person,
it's actually a really funlittle bird to fly. So I was I
was, I was pretty happy with it.
You know?
Is that the one you landed onthe dolly?
Now that was a 206. Yeah. Butyeah, then the training was
really cool. You know, I got todo my buddy Dominic, who I think

(03:40):
we're gonna get on the podcasthere. At some point, he actually
did all of the data collectingflights to create the A star
simulator for flight safety. Sothat guy's pretty legit. But his
flying abilities, and we got todo some really cool tail rotor
failure training, but I hadnever done before. That's cool.

(04:03):
I'm glad. I'm glad to hear yougot some pretty cool training
out of it. Yeah.
Yeah, totally. People in Texasare so nice, which is one of the
reasons I have decided to movethere in the next couple of
weeks. So, yeah, I'm going to beflying some fixed wing. I'm
actually getting my multi enginelicense right now. My check

(04:23):
rides on the 19th. Good luck.
Thank you. Thank you. I am acollector of readings at this
point. One of the last ones thatI need to get right, so my fixed
wing, multi engine license so Ican hop on a King Air and I'm
also going to be flying up tolatas
hopefully, that'd be awesome.
Yeah, and a lot of you reallywant a PAC 12

(04:48):
PAC 12 and some helicopter stuffalso. So just find contract
stuff for private owners. It'sgoing to be pretty awesome.
We'll see if it, you know, canmake a life down there.
While you're not done with yourreal Greetings yeah we still
have to get our float oh yesnext summer Alaska that is on
the docket as well seaplanethat is on the docket plane.

(05:08):
Yeah, we got to get our ourfloat rating. That'd be that'd
be sick.
That's gonna be next summer forflushes
oh, by the way guys, I just wantto apologize for absence time
away from our podcasts. I had alot of life events going on and

(05:31):
we're gonna get back to it. Ihope you guys enjoyed this
episode and I hope to be pumpingthem out here on the regular for
you.
I too have had a lot of lifeevents as we mentioned I had to
drive and move my entire lifeacross the country and debt but
yeah, we're excited to get backto it. Our next guest a million
words come to mind whendescribing her leader ABA tricks

(05:53):
inspire me Julie awesome vapingwith over $1,500 in the F 16
including when 163 combat hoursover Afghanistan and supportive
Operation Resolute Support andoperation freedoms Sentinel.
There's no doubt that this womanis a true hero and patriot.
She's currently flying or secondseason with the United States

(06:14):
Air Force Thunderbirds Dang,paving the way as a lead solo
pilot flying the number five getout of Nellis Air Force Base,
and serves as the squadronschief of standardization and
evaluation.
And stay tuned for the end ofthe episode where we talked
about external and internalpressures. And a reminder to
stay actively proactive in yourpre flight process to culture a

(06:36):
safe and healthy flight. We'vebeen waiting a really long time
for this. And I'm sure you guyshave been on the edge of your
seat waiting for us to come outwith a new episode. So we're
stoked that she's here joiningus today. Everyone please join
me in welcoming Michelle Curran.
You do a full barrel roll. Andeventually we'll do a full loop.

(06:57):
And we'll just do them over andover and you just move it in
tighter and tighter. Hey, I madeyour Michelle current and I'm
forever on the flymy name is Jose by the way
senior EDANice to finally meet you or see
you in person. Right. Yeah, it'sbeen a work in progress to get

(07:17):
this scheduled. I knowmajor major Michelle curve. Is
it Korean or Korean? Korean?
Awesome.
You're Where are you at rightnow?
We are in Pocono, Pennsylvania.
Okay, what's there to do inPocono?
Not not a lotis that on the east or west side

(07:40):
of Pennsylvania?
It's on the east that we'rereally close to New York. So
we're actually going to stewardin New York tomorrow. And it's
like a 10 minute flight for us.
Oh, really? Did that hurricaneaffect you guys at all? I
thought I heard something.
Yeah, it canceled our air showon Sunday, just because so much
rain came through. Wow. Lay sowe only flew on Sunday or on

(08:04):
Saturday? Yeah. But it's sunnyout now.
Yeah. Yeah, let's talk about youwant to talk about mace. And
anytime I hear the word mace, itjust brings me back to being
maced. Coast Guard.
Everyone thinks that I must havelike, beat some guy up and

(08:25):
sprayed him with pepper spray.
And that's how I got my callset. I wish it was something
cool like that. In general.
Callsign sound cool, but theyalmost never have a cool like
story that makes you cool. Likedid they purposely give you a
call sign for something dumb?
You did? Yeah. So wehave heard I know. I mean, I've
learned like there's one thatwere called peg leg right. Peg
Leg and another one was wasanother call center. We heard

(08:49):
that was on our interviews.
Oh, just I mean, rain rain. I'msure you know, rain. I'm sure
you know, rainwater. Yeah. Didyou guys serve in Afghanistan
together?
We weren't in the same squadron.
So we I don't know if we werethere similar times or not. But
I've met rain a couple timesjust their air show stuff. He
was leaving right when I kind ofshowed up. But he's separated

(09:11):
from active duty now living thegood life. Right? Yeah. Flying
FedEx.
Yeah, I think he's, he did agood job of exiting, like right
after the demo team and takingthe really fun cool parts of the
job, which is like the stuffwith the kids and inspiring
everyone and like transitioningit. Right. I think he did that.

(09:34):
Well.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah. So being in this jobspecifically, a lot of people
ask me like, how did you becomea Thunderbird? Were you like a
kid when you're five years oldthat saw the team fly and was
like, I'm gonna do that. Andreally, I kind of just stumbled
into it was just kind of joking,but not really. I grew up in a
small town in North CentralWisconsin, and we did not have

(09:54):
any air shows there. There wereany military bases nearby. I
didn't have any immediatefamily. Were in the military at
all. So I didn't really have anyexposure to it. I was a good
student growing up. And youknow, like halfway through high
school, my parents, who weresuper hard workers like middle
class family, they're like, Hey,we don't have a college fund to

(10:15):
just pay for your college. Andyou probably don't want to be in
a, you know, $100,000 of debt.
So let's start talking aboutscholarship options. And my dad
suggested he had gone to theUniversity of Wisconsin Madison
and seen the ROTC program there.
He wasn't part of it. But he hadseen the cadets running around.
He knew of it. He's I think hewould do really well in this.
And my first reaction was, heck,no, I do not want to be in the

(10:38):
military, I want to wear auniform. I want to be a normal
college kid and do all thenormal college things. And like
my knee jerk reaction was nowlike, that's not for me. Here we
are. But the more we looked intoit, he's like, let's at least
look into it and go visit anROTC detachment and check it

(10:59):
out. So I learned more about it.
And I was like, there's somepretty cool things you can do.
And I didn't want to stay inthat small town, I grew up in,
like 4000 people. And it was agreat way to travel the world.
And I was just a reallyadventurous kid driven and the
more I looked into it, the moreI was like, well, this would
actually probably be a good fit.
And then you talking aboutdifferent branches of the

(11:19):
military and quality of life.
That is one reason I picked theAir Force. The Air Force.
I mean, everyone will say like,the Marines are going to be out
sleeping in the dirt and thearmy is going to be at 10 Air
Force is going to be in like yousaid before seasons. And that's
kind of joking but but kind oftrue.

(11:42):
All the Air Force Bases I'veever visited had like seven golf
courses, instead on a reallynice bass down in Hawaii, like a
private bungalow, the privatebeach for 40 bucks a night,
something like that. Oh, yeah.
It was super, super nice. And inthe cafeteria, someone actually
took my tray for me after Ifinished eating. I was like,
What are you doing? And they'relike, are you done with your

(12:02):
food? I'm like, put you'retaking this for me? What? You
guys have people?
Yeah, that's up. That's whatstuck out. Yeah.
Like you're taking my tray. Why?
If I could, if I could go backand probably good. I'd probably
go to the Air Force. Air Force.
Yeah, hand down. You know? Yeah.
Butter Jelly.

(12:25):
Yeah. We all give each other ahard time about it. But I think
like, once you've been in for awhile, you're like, well, it is
nice to not sleep in a tent.
Right. But yeah, yeah. So andthen aviation was something that
I wanted to do, but didn't havethe opportunity to do when I was
younger. I, there was a smallairport in my hometown, and I
told my parents, I want to takeflying lessons. And they were
kind of just like, yeah, that'sit sounds expensive. And like we

(12:47):
that was the end of theconversation. And it never
really happened. I thought whenI was applying to an ROTC
scholarship, if I was going tobe in the military, I wanted to
do something challenging andexciting. And flying kind of
just naturally fell into thatcategory. And I loved roller
coasters. I love like climbingtrees and jumping off things.
And like, I was just that kidthat my mom would turn her back

(13:09):
for five seconds. And then she'dbe like, Oh, god, she's up in
the tree. Yeah, you and I saythat it was off to the races.
And I did ROTC on a scholarship,which was amazing. I made such
good friends there. And I was asuper shy, introverted kid. And
it really forced me outside ofmy comfort zone. And I grew a

(13:32):
ton in the four years I was atcollege. So that was, that was
awesome. It was great that thatprogram really helped with that.
And then I got a pilot flightout of there. And when I went to
pilot training, it was kind ofthe same thing. I was like,
Well, I'm going to be a pilot, Iwant to fly something fun and
exciting and fast and go upsidedown. So I put f 16. First on my
list. And here we are,how competitive is it to get a

(13:53):
flight slot, a pilot's lot outof ROTC,
it really ebbs and flows,depending where the Air Force is
out with their need for pilots.
So when I was graduating, whichwas in 2009, I think my class
got six or seven. And that washonestly about how many people
actually wanted them. So itworked out pretty well. But I

(14:14):
know there's years where it'sless or it's more, and I think
every class kind of varies. Howmany people want it and how many
don't. Turns out not everyone inthe Air Force is a pilot or
wants to be a pilot, right?
Surprise. But yeah, it's fairlycompetitive, though. You can't
you need to be like in the top,I would say 30 of your classes.

(14:36):
So to be competitive, theyaren't going to set someone
who's bottom of their class,even if they had a spot to
flight school because I thinkthey're kind of setting them up
for failure.
How does it work with ROTC? Isthere like morning formations
every morning? Do you haveKennedy like a part time job or
how does that work? Being in auniversity doing ROTC program?
Yeah, exactly. So my dad broughtthat scholarship opportunity up

(14:58):
and I was like, Heck, no, Idon't want to do that. did not
realize how much of a balanceyou actually can have as like a
normal college student and anROTC cadet. So for us, I think
we did like morning PT twice aweek. So you'd go work out
together, which was early. But Imean, it's two mornings a week,
that's not very like that muchof a time commitment. And then
you do what's called LeadershipLab, which is a couple hours,

(15:18):
one day a week, I think everydetachment does a different
time. But that's when all thecadets from all the different
grades like so freshmen, throughsenior are all together to do
stuff like marching and problemsolving, and just all kinds of
stuff. That's kind of like theheart of the detachment is that
leadership lab every week. Andthen you have a class just like

(15:40):
you would any college classthat's once a week that's
specific to your year in ROTC.
And you're learning all kinds ofstuff from like military history
to how rank works, the customsand courtesies. Like all the
basic stuff you need to go in asa lieutenant when you finally
graduate. So it's a couple daysa week that you're in uniform.
And when you're not going tothose courses, you're in normal

(16:01):
clothes, you're a normalstudent, you're living on campus
or off campus or whatever. Soit's, it was pretty awesome. I
think it's a good deal.
Yeah, it's pretty legit.
What percentage decides not togo active after they graduate?
Do you think?
So I've heard that it's been waymore selective lately, just with

(16:25):
the demands of the Air Forcewhen I went through. It was
after sophomore year, you hadthat summer commitment, where
you basically went through basictraining and for a month, and
once you had done that you'recommitted at that point. You
need to like finish the program.
And then you're going to gothere for four years. I don't
know what the dropout rate wasfrom people who entered as a
freshman. To those who actuallyfinished as a senior there were

(16:48):
definitely a few every year thatwould continue for whatever
reason. But it was pretty goodpercentage that made it from my
class that started to actuallycommissioned to us four years
later,you graduated and did you go
straight to flight school orstraight to active duty? What
was your path after yougraduated?
Yeah, so I know this varies allthe time, you'll probably hear

(17:10):
about like casual lieutenants,where they just send them to a
base to do some random job untilflight school spot is open. We
had a break just with one theycould fit everyone into the
flight training pipeline. So Igraduated in May, with a four
year degree commissioned aslieutenant and then I didn't
have a report date to my firstbase until November. So I have

(17:32):
like six months, where I'm notgetting paid. I have no job.
What is your casual? Yeah, thisI was like, a waitress. And this
was one of my most fun jobsever. I worked at an apple
orchard as an apple. It'samazing. I got paid cash every

(17:54):
morning. Just don't tellthe IRS. Yeah, like secret.
Like I'm a lieutenant in the AirForce about to go to flight
training. And I'm picking applesand getting like stung by bees
and stuff and then in the fall,or their haunted house and like
run their Hanukkah, or a andlike shoot pumpkins on this
giant slip. It was such a funpath. I loved it. It was like a

(18:16):
nice break before flighttraining, which is pretty
stressful. Started.
Yeah, I could imagine. Wow, anapple picker about you guys had
some bomb apple cider, though.
It was good. Apples now I'm anapple snob.

(18:36):
What's the best Honeycrisp?
Any crisper? We're at that forsure. Yeah, totally.
Yeah, I spend about 10 minutesat the grocery store picking up
every single one like, Nope,that's not the perfect one. Of
course, it has to be like at thebottom where you're like playing
Jenga, you know, with theapples. Like, I want that one

(18:56):
down there. It's gonna start anavalanche of apples and
Apple avalanche.
So you'd be the one that itwould hate when I was working at
stater brothers yesterdaysection. Yeah. That'd be like
that go right there. Should bebanned for life.
Yeah, it was a great summer.
It's the summer I'll rememberforever, for sure. So I have no
regrets on that decision for sixmonths. Now,

(19:20):
where was the apple picking?
Like what state did you?
So some Wisconsin? Oh, gotcha.
It was in Eau Claire, Wisconsin,if anyone's familiar, but it was
beautiful. In the summer. It wasgreat. I'm a big fan of
outdoors. So I just like beingoutside. It was
nice. Nice. There was a job Iwas looking at. And it was
called Devil's Lake on NorthDakota. And there's a Devil's

(19:43):
Lake, Wisconsin. And when Ilooked it up online, I was like,
Why does nobody ever want to getthis job? And when I put it up
on Google, I just put Devil'sLake in an auto populated
Wisconsin. And I was like, man,that looks beautiful. What? What
is the job? Yeah. And I'm likestarting regular Ready to apply
and I'm telling my friends adude, there's like $15,000

(20:04):
bonus, you know, if you justsign up, they give you a $15,000
stipend, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, no hotter like I, this
time actually put North Dakotain it. And there was like a half
submerge truck and a dead treeand a lake, you know. I was
like, oh my god get startedseeing why nobody did that job.

(20:28):
And I'm like, I don't mean tooffend everybody Devil's Lake,
North Dakota. Butit sounds to Google pigs. Like,
could you imagine if a town justput up some stock images of just
this beautiful area. And the EMScompanies are like, Yeah, we
have pilot housing, the 14 and14 schedule. Yeah, sign up with

(20:52):
us, you get a $20,000 bonus. Andthen they just put all these
beautiful images are like, well,we never said that. That was
actually your bass.
Catfish, me Ms. Bass catfish.
Typically, with these helicopterEMS jobs, the ones that give you

(21:15):
the most benefits are usuallythe ones that are in the middle
of nowhere that nobody elsewants to go to. And the lowest
desire less desirable locations,typically. So the more benefits
and like awesome things thatthey're offering, you know, it's
in the middle of nowhere, nobodywants to go. Trying to reel you
in, give you more money. Crazy,so it's never

(21:39):
worth it. Yeah. You know, a lotof people just go ahead and do
those jobs for a year or so. Andthen they can write, you know,
transfer within the company to abetter base, or I have never
worked that part of EMS, butjust from what I've heard from
friends that are in it rightnow. And how was flight school?
Did you pick it up right away?
Were you sick, total badassstudent right off the cuff or

(22:05):
it was one of my favorite years,I think in my career, but one of
the hardest. I think a lot ofpeople feel that way when
they're done with it. I wentinto flying for the Air Force
with zero civilian time. I hadwritten in a Cessna once. Like I
was like, here, you can fly fora second to a term that was

(22:25):
like, Okay, that was like myflight experience outside of
being a passenger on acommercial airline. So there's
intro, or initial flightscreening, which is like a one
month program out in Pueblo,Colorado, you learned to fly the
da 20. That was probably thehardest course I did in the

(22:45):
airforce. Even though thecontents not that hard when you
look at it, the big spectrum oflearning to fly the F 16. And
becoming an instructor in that.
But coming from no technical ormechanical background and no
flight time, it was just liketrying to drink from a fire
hose. I'm trying to learn thesystems of this aircraft. I
don't understand how oil systemworks. I don't understand
aerodynamics. Like it's all new.

(23:07):
Not to mention, like trying tolearn to talk on the radio, just
all all the things. Yeah. Sothat felt like an uphill battle.
And there it was superstressful, there's frozen in
time in the day, I would stay upsuper late, just sitting in the
little simulator, practicing myground up writing out every
radio call, I was gonna makepracticing it so that I didn't

(23:28):
push the button and turn mybrain off like everyone does,
flying. And then once I, I feltlike I was about to wash out the
entire time. But when I left theday, I'm leaving, I sent
something about that to one ofmy instructors. And he's like,
he did really well. And I waslike, Wait, but this entire
time, I felt like I was justbarely keeping my head above
water. I honestly thought that Imight be out of my league. And I

(23:50):
might not be in the right careerfor a while during that program.
I was like, I might not be ableto do this. And then I got to
actual undergraduate pilottraining for a year long program
in Columbus, Mississippi. And itstarted off with all the
academics and lots of takingtests and learning in the
simulator. And I've just alwaysbeen a good test taker. And I

(24:11):
was a really good student.
Growing up, my parents reallyemphasize that and how important
it was. So I think I had good,like time management skills and
study habits already. So I justdid really well on the academic
portion. And I think that kindof got me ahead of the power
curve. So when we did startflying, it was not as hard of a
transition as it was for someother people who struggled with
that first phase. And I I didwell all through pilot training,

(24:35):
I didn't really have any pointwhere I was like this phase is
especially hard compared toothers and I think I'm gonna
fail out or anything like that,which I wouldn't say is the
norm. I think it's a toughprogram. It's kind of a steep
learning curve. And I just gotlucky that I had that foundation
of good habits and you know isgood at memorizing things

(24:58):
because there's A lot of that.
And then I did get airsick. Andthe left hand right hand just
came pretty quickly for me. AndI actually found the follow on
training learning to fly the F16. A lot harder than I did the
year of undergraduate pilottraining.
How big are your classes? Whenyou're doing the training?

(25:20):
Yeah. So I think for pilottraining, I believe we had like
25 people in our class. And thenwhen I went off to the B course,
which is the f 16, specifictraining out in Phoenix that we
give our space. I think we had80 People in our class. Oh, wow.
That's pretty big. Yeah, prettybig thing.
Did you know that you wanted tofly the F 16? Was that?

(25:42):
Initially the bird? You reallyYes, that's what I want to go
for when you're going throughtraining.
So partway through the ROTCprogram, we went and did a base
visit went down to Tyndall inFlorida. And I saw some FFTs
flying and that was like myfirst exposure to fighter
aircraft. And that was when Iwas like, Oh, my gosh, that's
amazing. Like, you could see theafterburner, you could like feel

(26:04):
it vibrating in your chest. Itwas a visceral reaction. I was
like, Holy crap, I want to dothat. So that was kind of the
point where I was like, I wantto fly fighters. And then
through pilot training, I'm justkind of learning more about what
the different mission sets were.
And there are a few instructorsthere from various airframes and
talking to them. And honestly,right up until we submitted our
dream sheet where you get tolist all your preferences of

(26:24):
aircraft, I went back and forthbetween the A 10 and F 16. I was
just like, I want both of these,Which one, which one. And I
ended up putting up suits infirst, I wanted to fly fast and
the aerobatic and all of that,but the 810 has a really cool
mission. So that's why I waskind of hung up on that for a
while. But I would have beenhappy with either one.

(26:47):
He tends my favorite. I love the810 Werehog. Yeah, that probably
be the plane, I would fly. If Iwas in the Air Force.
I mean, it's pretty cool. Funnystory about that, I met my
husband on Bumble. The firstyear I was on the team like
right after I moved to Vegas.
And I don't know if you'refamiliar with Bumble, but yet
the woman has to make the firstthe woman has to make the first

(27:15):
move. So you have to like Iforget exactly how it works. You
have to like like, swipe rightswipe, whatever the one that
says yes, I like this person.
And then you have a certainamount of time to talk to them.
And I had like clicked on myhusband's profile. And I was
like, yeah, and then I saw hisprofile picture. And I was like,
he's really good looking likeI'm kind of intimidated. Should
I message him? Should I not? Andthere's like this little extend

(27:38):
thing that they can use, and heextended and I was like, Well, I
guess he must actually beinterested. So then I sent him a
message and I've zero idea whatI said something generic and
dumb. And he in my profile, Isaid I was a pilot Air Force,
but say what I flew, and heresponded, he was like, Oh,
you're on the air force. What doyou fly, and I was like f 16.
And he is just like his secondmessage to me ever. It was like,

(28:02):
that's cool. But I really preferthe A 10.
Refreshing because it got reallyold, like trying to date and
being a female fighter pilot.
And people just be like, all Iwant to talk about is your job.
It's so cool. Like, I was alittle kid and I just loved

(28:24):
fighter planes. And I was like,bro, like, or mountain air show
right now. I'm like, Yeah, wejust have a normal conversation.
Turns out he was in the Marinesin Fallujah. So he has a special
place in his heart for a chance.
Butyeah, yeah, that's, yeah, I was
I've been off and on Bumble, youknow. And you're right. It's

(28:45):
like the only thing that guysever want to talk about it. As
soon as the first thing thatthey say to me is when do we get
to ride in your helicopter?
Like, just go away? And so I dida little experiment, because
there was a good period of time,that I wasn't really getting any
hits. I'm like, what's going on?
Like, Why does nobody like me, Idon't understand. And I switched
my occupation. I was like, youknow, I'm just gonna do a little

(29:10):
social experiment here. And Ichanged it from helicopter pilot
to, like, Director of mynonprofit, and I took off all
the pictures of me flying and Ijust put cute pictures on there.
Just, you know, me in normal,everyday life, whatever. And
overnight, I had, like 30 hits.
And I was like, wow, but Ichanged it back. So I was like,

(29:33):
you know, what, if they youknow, the person I'm supposed to
be with, if they have a problemwith me being a pilot and feel
intimidated by that, and they'rejust not the person that's
supposed to be with?
Exactly, I would say you'reprobably gonna get a lot of
quantity but not quality if youjust take it off of there
because I think that's a goodlitmus test for whether people
are going to be supportive ofsomeone that's like, kicking ass

(29:55):
just as much or more than there.
So you pick the absence 16 SuperAdobe, you know, at our event
the other day, we had the AirForce, they brought out their
virtual reality of 16 flightsimulator. They're like, do you
want to try it out? I'm like,Yeah, but I'm really nervous
because if I do really poorly onthis, I'm like that I did so.

(30:21):
Well, I also was getting kind ofsick. My stomach was kind of
like, oh, even just just beingin the simulator. But but it was
super cool because you get tofly through this canyon. And you
get to shoot at targets and youkind of follow the leader and
you go through different hoopsand I don't know if you've ever
played on the sim that you guyshave I have it I
were I always see it out there.
But we're always like one thingto the next that show so I never

(30:43):
get to go over there. But I canI we have a VR headset that we
use for training and it makes mefeel emotions that even though
I've never gotten a ticket inthe jet,
yeah. Yeah, the guys are like,So how'd you do? And I'm like,
don't look at my stats. I'mreally busy. I'm like, I'm like,
Oh, it was super cool. I'mputting on the event. Okay,
gotta go. Nothing to see herelike covering the scoreboard.

(31:08):
Like, don't look over there.
Like, you know, you're supposedto hit the targets. Did you try
it?
Huh? No, I didn't.
Oh, man. Yeah, that's the thing.
When you're putting on an eventlike a big event, it kind of
feels like it's your weddingwhere you just plan six months
for a big party for otherpeople. But you don't get to
take your time doing all thethings that you even put

(31:29):
together yourself. You just arebeing spread so thin.
I didn't get to indulge in a lotof other stuff. I was just kind
of working work inthe event. Yeah. So there was
this little girl she's nineyears old. I don't know if you
saw on my Instagram story. Thelittle girl with the flight suit
on? Oh, I did. Yeah. Yeah.

(31:49):
She was so cute. So she comesup. I was like, how did you did
you fly the flight simulators?
And she's like, Yeah, but Idon't like the Cessna. That's
boring. I want to go fast. Andit doesn't even go upside down.
So she was I thought she was allabout the F 16 flight simulator.
And we have some videos of herflying it and she's killing it.

(32:10):
And uh, yeah, she was like,Well, I'm nine, but I'm about to
turn 16. So I'm gonna go toflight school. Yeah.
Really, really cute. Butamazing.
There were some adorable kidsthere. I was like, Man, I wish

(32:31):
me or Michelle was here. Oh, myGod, I just like hit myself in
the head with my microphone.
Man, it'd be so cool. IfMichelle was here, because he'd
be such an inspiration for her.
You came to my I was, I wasbummed. Those events are super
fun. And they've been reallylimited this season with a lot
of shows kind of limiting theirin person contact with the day
like driving air shows. And it'sjust not the same as it was in

(32:52):
2019. Yeah, when there was anormal season. So I do miss
those events. Because thoselittle girl you can tell like
the ones that already knowexactly what they want to do.
And they can't wait to tell youabout it. Like little
firecrackers and they come uplike this one girl came up to me
and she's like, I'm gonna takeyour job. Like I said, I was a
shy kid, like, I would have beenway too intimidated to walk up

(33:17):
to a Thunderbird pilot, and justbe like, what's up? I'm gonna do
today, I would have been likethe one cowering behind my mom's
leg. Like, can you sign this?
But I love it. Yeah, that'scool. I wish I it looked like it
was a huge success forespecially for it being the
first one.
Yeah, we got the whole eventfilled. So it worked out really,

(33:39):
really well. Overall, very, verybig success. And everyone's just
asking about the next one andthe next one. And, you know, why
don't we do this again. And sohopefully, you know, the plan is
to kind of start this programaround the country and have an
ambassador program where otherpeople who are representatives
of the nonprofit can put onthese little aviation days, you

(34:01):
know, smaller ones for thecommunity kind of a thing and
just getting kids there andgetting them inspired to go into
aviation sometime.
Yeah, sure. We could do in Vegasto help you guys out with that.
Did the controls get super hotinside those of sixteens up
there at Nellis during thesummertime? Do you guys put
stuff over the panels and thecontrols to help out with that?

(34:24):
I can imagineYeah, so there's like leather
covers like over the seat andthe hood and stuff but
everything gets so it? I mean,when it's like 110 to I think
earlier this year, we werecalled like 117 and we're flying
vocals like in the afternoon. Ithink that was like three
o'clockyou mean 3am Okay, cool. I'm

(34:44):
down with that.
But you like can't touch any anymetal surface will no kidding.
Burn you like the ladder willburn you the size of the jet. So
we're trying to do like practiceour show launch what we do in
front of a crowd and Thatinvolves like us like rippling
down the line as we drop intothe seats, but until it's like

(35:04):
your turn to drop, you're likeholding yourself up on the
rails, which are metal. And soyou're just like, oh yeah,
do you leave your helmet on theflightline?
Yeah, it's sitting on the rail.
And it's just, it's just heatingup. And then I mean, we put all
those on in order, and then weclose the canopy and the Jets

(35:28):
starting up, but it takes acouple minutes for everything to
come online. And for the ACS,that blows the cold air cold,
it's cold ish on the ground, ittakes a couple minutes for that
to get going. So that timeframewhen it's 115 out, which means
on the ramp, the tarmac with theJets running, it's probably like
130. And you have a helmet onand the G suit and a flight suit
and you're in a jet with thecanopy closed, which acts as

(35:50):
like a greenhouse. It Yeah,those few minutes are torture, I
hate that part. You're justsoaked in sweat for the rest of
the flight. But once we getairborne, it works pretty well
and it cools down in there, doyou at least
have a camo pack of water thatyou can drink while you're
flying? Or do you just have totough it out?

(36:11):
Well, they're pretty shortflights for dental practice
really go through the gas sofast. So it's only like 45
minutes to an hour. So I'll havelike an insulated bottle with
ice and stuff in it that I'llleave with my crew chiefs on the
ground. And if I have to likestep to a spare aircraft or
something, I'll just like chugsome of it between ground ups.
But I don't take anything in thejet because there's not really a
good place to store it. And likegoing upside down and stuff.

(36:34):
Everything has to be like reallystowed away, or fly around the
cockpit. So I know some of theguys in the diamond one through
four. They aren't you know,flying inverted as much and they
can kind of jam a water bottlein the cockpit somewhere. But
for the soloists and myself innumber six, we just do a lot of
inverted fly with a little bitof negative g like aggressive

(36:55):
rolls and stuff. And anythingthat's not really buttoned down,
it's gonna be flying around thecockpit.
I can imagine just you forgetthat you do have a lot of balls
in the air. And you're doingyour training. And also you just
see a water bottle floating infront of you. Yeah. Dang it.

(37:16):
No, they're my sunglasses.
You see it on the GoPro as itgets uploaded to YouTube, you
just see a floating waterbottle.
That has happened now with awater bottle. But I mean, it
does happen. Occasionally you'rebuying something upside down,
you're like, ah, that's wherethat's where it was founded.
Let me let me grab that quickand try to find somewhere to

(37:38):
stuff it.
I was I don't know what theycall is a G machine or you know,
where you practice centrifuge?
Yes. How's thattorture device, it's the worst
thing ever invented. I thinkit's bad because you're doing it
as an initial training. So youdon't really have exposure a lot
to the G's that you're going toexperience at the centrifuge. So

(38:00):
it's kind of new, you do getused to them to some extent. And
then everyone talks it up. Like,if you, you know, G lock during
this, you're gonna pass throughand get removed from the
training pipeline. So thenyou're stressing out. And then
it's just, it's artificial,right, you're at the end of this
arm. And then when you stop,capsule tilts, and you get like

(38:20):
tumble vertigo and your innerear. So a lot of people throw up
afterwards, which you don't getthat legit. Like when you stop a
lot of people like put theirhand on the ceiling of the
capsule, like tried to set upthemselves because their inner
ear is just tumbling. So thatgets a lot of people but it's
it's stressful. It's not fun.

(38:40):
I'm glad I had to go twice.
Initially when I went to the T38, which is the fighter track
of pilot training. It's a jettrainer. But I think we went up
to seven G's on that profile.
And then when I selected F 16 Ihad to go again and do the nine
G profile. So I will happilynever go back there. Did you get

(39:01):
a video so I have a disc with iton there. But I just opened it
recently because I was like oh Iwant to share these videos
because it's like funny to lookback on now. And for some reason
it only has like the six Gprofile on it or uploaded my
nine G stuff. So it's it'sreally pixelated bad quality you

(39:23):
don't realize how much bettervideo technology has gotten
since like 2010 2011 So it'sjust not very good quality it's
only 60s So I'm sure somewherein some air force like database
there's a video of my nine Gprofile but I do not have a copy
of it I'mfortunate you make me sound like
like nothing yeahGeez I want to get me out here

(39:46):
I think for at the most you knowdoing the cat lawn but yeah that
was that was it and I was messedup for for the whole day. I
didn't do well doing theaerobatic stuff i I've tried I
tried a couple of aerobaticflights, like maybe just get
used to it, you know? And yeah,I threw up. I was like, how do

(40:06):
people just do this all thetime? And everyone's just
saying, you just got to keepgoing, you got to keep doing
keep doing it. Like I don't knowif I want to keep I'm eating a
piece of toast and I can't evenhold it down. Yeah, it sucked.
Which sucks, because I lovedoing aerobatic, like, I love
the Act of, you know, flyingupside inverted and doing loops.

(40:27):
And I just so much fun. Butyeah, for some reason, my body
just does not appreciate it.
Yeah, I think that's just kindof luck of the draw. Definitely
pilot training. There's Alisonand Phil and every class that
really struggled with motionsickness. And they'll put them
in the IV heard of the Baronychair where they spin you, and

(40:48):
it just like messes up yourinner ear. And so you, you do
that, in physiology, when you'rekind of like in the academic
phase, it's this chair, andthey'll just spin you in it. And
it's like, got a barrier aroundit, you put your arms on, and
then they'll stop it. And likeyou put your head up. And your
eyes are just like going backand forth super fast. And it's
still like desensitize you tothe inner ear tumbling feeling

(41:11):
that makes a lot of people sick.
And luckily, I just never hadissues with it. But there are
some guys in my class who are upevery flight and talk about
grit, like in pilot training.
It's a hard program to beginwith. But one of the guys that
was in the top of my class, hecrushed it. He threw up like
every flight for like the firstfour months or something. And I

(41:32):
was like, wow, to just keeppushing. And he eventually got
past it. But it was actuallypretty impressive.
Yeah, so I kind of wanted totalk a little bit about your
training with the Thunderbirds,like your first experience of
getting into the team. And doyou all get high agric? I guess
it's just whenever a spot opensup, they put someone new on? Or

(41:56):
does a whole new team get hiredall at once. He said, because
it's a two year bullet. So doyou get a fresh team every two
years? Or is it kind of arolling type of thing.
So it's rolling. So there's someoverlap. So you really need that
continuity and experience tohelp train the new pilots as
they come in. So about half ofthe officers are witching out

(42:18):
each year. So let's see, when Iapplied we're hiring for boss.
So the number one position, thenumber eight position, the solo
and then one of the wingman,which was number three at the
time. So there's one throughsix, or who flies in the actual
demo, when you see the six shotsflying. So usually, any time

(42:39):
you'd go see the team, it's halfof those pilots first year and a
half second year. So there'ssome continuity there. So we
actually just did a hiring cyclea couple months ago, you know,
we put out the hiring messagearound Christmas time, January
timeframe, everyone sort of it'stheir applications, and then go
through those and we see who youwant to bring out in person. And

(43:00):
then they come on the road andget to see what an airshow
weekend is like because the jobis not for everyone. And so we
want to give them some exposureto the behind the scenes what a
weekend actually looks like forus before they are already
hired. And they're like, Well, Ihate this thing. Now I'm here
for two years. So they'll comeout and then we just get to kind
of hang out and like it's noeveryone's personalities, see
who's a good fit with who we aretogether all the time. So you

(43:25):
need to make sure there's notgoing to be personalities that
are going to create a lot ofconflict, because that can be a
huge deal with being on the roadall the time. And a lot of trust
is required, obviously for whatwe do. So we go through that,
then we do formal interviewswith them as well. Put them on
the spot, ask all the questions.
That's the scary part. And thenwe hire from there. And it's
like a whole person package.

(43:45):
It's everything from theirflying ability and their
performance reports to letterswritten by their commanders, or
just like calling around topeople that we know that work
with them currently and be like,yeah, what is this person like
to hang out? With? What how arethey in the jet? Like, just
getting a feel for theirpersonality? To them?
Specifically, will theirpersonality fit into the spot

(44:07):
that's open? Like, would theymake a good solo pilot? Or would
they make a good diamond likewingman pilot, and all of that
goes into it. And then you haveto even look further down the
road be like, Well, if we putthem in the wing, then two years
from now we're going to have anew Thunderbird one. And so that
person is going to be theexperienced person at that point
training the new, like leader ofthe team, like you need a

(44:30):
personality that can do that.
And yeah, so there's a lot thatgoes into getting hired. And we
announced the new hires a guesscouple months ago now. And this
is me being biased, but I'msuper excited. There's another
female pilot joining the team.
So and I leave, there won't belike a five year gap like there

(44:51):
was last time. So that's cool.
So she'll be in the position toyou know, really inspire those
little girls which I'm gladthey're gonna have someone they
can look up to Once I'm nolonger on the team,
amazing, and how was it firstfinding information with the
team and doing all these reallyclose formation flights? Was it
a little nerve wracking atfirst? And did you jump right

(45:15):
into it? And you're like, Oh, Igot this, or do you guys find an
analogy? Do you go right intoformation flying? Or do you do
things in their simulator,you do a lot of chair flying
from what I see, like on TV,but formation stuff, we do some
basic stuff in the simulator tokind of develop the cross check
of what you need to look at whendifferent than in like a gray
unit. But the simulator is notgood for flying demo maneuvers.

(45:38):
Because you don't get the GS,the stuff we do is just really
aggressive with that and thentrying to fly for engine in the
simulator, you just can't seeand feel like the changes that
are so tiny that you need to. Sowe don't really have any sim
rides that are part of oursyllabus. So we kind of jump
right into it. But for me as asolo, like I would go out with
the lead. So at the time thatwas leaving, and I learned all

(46:01):
my single ship maneuvers. So ifyou've ever seen the show, we do
some single ship maneuvers tokind of showcase what the f 16
can really do. And that's alldone by five or six. So I'll do
like the max G, turn and I'll doother girls like FTP, and then
go straight vertical up to15,000 feet, like just a few

(46:22):
seconds my favorite maneuver,it's super fun to fly. But
really showcase the jet can do.
So we learn the single shipstuff first, and everyone is
terrible at all of them. Whenyou start, it's just not the
kind of flying that you've beendoing previously in your career.
As an F 16 pilot, you're reallylike a sensor operator, like the

(46:44):
the left hand right hand ofphysically flying the jet is
just an afterthought, it justbecomes second nature. And you
know, you're trying to figureout how to target air to air or
you're in a wheel doing closeair support, trying to like
figure out how to run yourtargeting pod and talk to the
guys on the ground and likemonitor the situation there and
deconflict from other aircraftthat are stacked up in wheel
with you over whatever thetarget is. And the physical

(47:06):
flying is pretty easy. That'sjust second nature, it's not
taking much of yourconcentration, it's everything
else that's taking all yourconcentration. But then coming
to the team, it's the completeopposite. Like, we don't do
anything tactical. And it's allleft hand right hand. So it
takes a while to kind oftransition to that. And like in
that 16 Normally, we we neveruse the rudder airborne, like

(47:28):
ever. But on the team, I'm fullrudder deflection, many times
throughout the flight. And wenever fly in verbage, there's
like no reason to and normallyhave stuff in your cockpit. It'd
be flying all over, like wetalked about. But on the team,
I'm flying through it all thetime. But I'm pulling out G's
all the time. It's just takes aton of repetition to get good at
that stuff. And then theformation stuff, you start kind

(47:52):
of in what we call a chaseposition. So a little bit
further away and like from whereyou see us in the show, and you
just start with like further andfurther bank turns. So with
hurdles going to like 90degrees, and then you do a full
barrel roll. And eventuallyyou'll do a full loop. And we'll
just do them over and over andyou just move it in tighter and
tighter until you can finallylike stay in formation. And then

(48:14):
we eventually bring everyonetogether to be able to do that.
But the formation flying is nota walk in the park. It's still
hard, like if it's a bumpy day,or it's high density altitude,
or whatever it is it. Yeah, I'mlike working hard. Be real
sweaty, tired by the end. It's ademo.
Yeah, I would imagine. Wow.
That's so crazy. I couldn't evenimagine how close are you guys?

(48:37):
Like really, when doingthe diamond gets the closest
during the past interview thatthey do is a four ship because
it's four jets. And there'sclosest 18 inches apart? Wow.
Yeah, why it's so that maneuveris real stable. And they've just
worked really hard to get ittighter and tighter. And we have

(48:57):
a pretty experienced team thisyear since we don't have anyone
new. And so the team is realdialed in right now. So it's
looking really good when we'reall together. And number six and
I are on the wings. We're threefeet apart roughly. And you're
constantly making corrections.
Like I'm sure you've seen someof the cockpit footage that we
put out on social media.
Everyone thinks like when youwatch it, all six of us would

(49:20):
you be called the Delta, youwatch the Delta loop or the
Delta roll and people are likeWow, they look just like welded
wing like they don't move atall. And then you see the
perspective from the cockpit,especially on outriggers on the
way on the ends, which is whereI fly. And we're number six live
on the other side and we arelike constantly moving the
throttle and constantlyadjusting and bouncing all over
the place but it's just suchtiny amounts that it's not

(49:42):
perceptible from the ground, butit's definitely perceptible to
us. It's a eight you'reconstantly making corrections.
That sounds so intense18 inches it it's hard to kind
of fathom how that worksaerodynamically with the air
foils being so close to eachother and the air passing
through It doesn't seem possiblethat that could happen, you
know, just with the air, yeah,over the top of the wing, and

(50:05):
the other wing being right ontop of it.
Yeah. So you can feel, you canfeel the other jet there and
boss, especially being out onthe point with a wingman on each
wing. If one person is closerthan the other has delegate push
that direction, like the guy onthe left side is too close,
he'll, it'll physically push thenumber one just

(50:27):
right, you can feel that. Yep.
And you have like an abort plan.
where someone's, you know, feelsthat it's not stable anymore. Do
you guys have a safe word whereyou all break off in different
directions? Yeah, abort missionand then just separate from each
other.

(50:48):
It's called kindof not quite to that extreme,
exploding. Cantaloupe is what welike joke about that. But
there's not many situationswhere you'd react that
aggressively. So there's like aboard spread, where everyone
would just like refer out. Butusually, it's only one person
experiencing whatever the thingis, like, if we go through some

(51:12):
wind shear or something, theperson you know, that's on the
side that everyone's shiftingtowards, you can get like really
tight, quickly. And you canhonestly just give a tiny bit of
rudder away and you're likemoving away from them, and
you're not going to hit eachother. And honestly, the crowd
can't even tell. Sometimes wehave very traumatic moments for
us, where we land and we'relike, oh, my gosh, that loop was

(51:33):
so sketchy. And then you wewatch on the video, and we're
like, Oh, it's great. Yeah, whenelse was experiencing the terror
that I was in that like splitsecond, when I got like, oh, we
can get towards me or whateverit was. So yeah, it's usually a
small correction that you justhave to react to, they do get

(51:54):
bigger. When we're all sixtogether, I fly off of number
two, who's flying off of numberone. So if number two has one of
those moments, where he's like,oh, man, he's like, quick rider
away, then I'm on the end of thewhip, right. So my reaction has
to be bigger than his andsometimes we'll get a bit out of
the formation for a second. Andit is noticeable to people on
the ground, but we're prettygood at trying not to overreact

(52:15):
and you know, moving as much aswe need to, but not so much that
it's like a moment of panic andthe crowds like what is that jet
doing? Yeah,they're probably like, man, they
suck. Oh, yeah. Not Said no oneever.

(52:35):
That's the social media commentsright here on someone's like,
oh, that person's wide, orsomeone coming? Or better
pictures. I just take that aslike a friendly rivalry. Be
like, go Navy. Cool. Sure.
Whatever. We work with the BlueAngels a decent amount, we just
did a joint show with them.
We've done a couple so we knowall of them. And it's a friendly

(52:58):
rivalry. There's, I feel likeit's like talking about two
football teams that are rivals,like there's always going to be
the people that like this teamin this house that we feel like
this team. And that's totallyfine. But the people that roll
in with them being comments likeyou shouldn't be on the team,
what kind of wide you are, andbe like, go on there like eating
chips in their mom's basement?

(53:22):
Have you have you heard aboutthis new augmented reality
technology that they're comingout with their red six company,
they're doing augmented realityfor the cockpit to train fighter
pilots.
I haven't experienced in personI've heard about it. And we
actually are trying to bring VRinto our training as well,

(53:45):
because and this is kind of thefirst hiring cycle that we're
doing that where we actuallyhave the VR headsets and we took
GoPro footage from our shows,like 360 footage. And then we
took HUD footage, and we pairedthem together. And we like sent
them out to our new hires, sothey can be at home before they
even moved out to Vegas andstart flying with the team.

(54:05):
Cool. They can look at it andthey can fly through a whole
show in their position. Wow. Soyeah, I mean, it's not going to
replace the hands on flying, butstill to like have that exposure
and know what radio calls arehappening when and like what the
reference of the other jetactually looks like before you
actually get in the cockpit andare starting to burn through all

(54:26):
those flights and trainingseason. I mean, it's huge to
have that. That step aheadbefore they even show up. Wow,
it's so cool. The directionthings are going. Yeah, I mean,
it's gonna just be that muchsafer. You know, that much
cheaper for training. Whenpeople get a leg up like that.
I'm gonna be a truck driver inabout 10 years when everything's

(54:46):
automated.
Just like relax.
I'm gonna be like, Oh, well, Iguess Top Gun was right. I
better get that truck driver'slicense.
We were just talking about theother day. I mean, Vegas has
really bad drivers, as I'm sureyou've experienced. And I'm sure

(55:09):
they're in LA and they'reeverywhere. But I was talking to
the other solo pilot, and I waslike, man, and people talk about
like, flying cars in the future.
Can you imagine if we put youraverage Joe Schmo driver in a
three dimensional car, I waslike, this will never happen,
because it's not a technologylimitation. It's a person
limitation. It has to be fullyautomated crashing into each

(55:30):
other all the time. I think itwill be
what would you say has been themost rewarding part of of what
you do. And you've flown, youknow, a ton of combat missions
over and Afghanistan 163 combathours. So and then now you fly

(55:50):
for the Thunderbirds, what whatI'm sure every aspect of your
job has had its, you know, highsand lows. But for you what has
been the most rewarding part ofit?
Yeah, it'd be tough to pickbetween a deployment and the
inspiration part of being on theThunderbirds, because those are
both rewarding in very differentways. I think being on the

(56:12):
Thunderbirds, especially forthree years, and being a female
pilot on the team is like a veryvisible position. And I have
this opportunity to reach animpact so many girls and women,
which is just a really cool roleto be in. And I've already seen
with having been here this long,some of their stories come full

(56:33):
circle, like there was a girlthat messaged me back when I
first started the air showcircuit in 2019. Saying that she
was just going to pilot trainingand she just got a pilot slot
she was from a small town hadno, it was like it was me, you
know, 10 years later, she had noflight time. And she was
stressed out about going intothis program that's super hard.

(56:55):
And she just messaged me a fewmonths ago, and she's like, Hey,
I hadn't talked to her in twoyears. And she's like, Hey, I
just wanted to follow up and letyou know, how it played out. And
she just dropped F 16. So she'sgonna be joining our community.
Wow, she's like, just so cool tohear. Because when she had first
reached out, she's like, Do youhave any advice and you know, I
talked to her about how tomanage time there. You know,

(57:19):
it's the closest alligator tothe boat and not to let it get
overwhelming because itdefinitely can. And you know,
everyone struggles at differentpoints. And I've given her all
this advice, and then shecrushed it. So it was so cool.
To just feel like I'm going toplay like a tiny bit and helping
her, you know, make her dreamcome true. So I think
interactions like that, that Iget to have in this job are so

(57:39):
unique to any other position inthe airforce. And that's what I
love about it. And the scheduledoes get to be a grind sometimes
and you're tired late in theseason, and I definitely get
exhausted by the constant, likedemands of, of thunder burning,
because I'm kind of introverted.
So just like I was having to beon and smile and talk to people.
And you know, sometimes you justwant to be by yourself and eat

(58:00):
your lunch. And there's alwayspeople demanding your time. But
those interactions with kids arejust, it's hard to describe when
you can like talk to them. Andyou see that light bulb moment
come on in their eyes, andthey're like, well, like someone
that looks like me is doingthat, like the highest levels, I
want to do that someday.
So cool as pretty epic. Likejust being a being a mentor is

(58:23):
very, like, I don't know, I justsaid, It's hard to describe
because being a mentor justmeans a lot to somebody like to
me, I have a couple mentors init, I can I can relate to what
you're talking about. Justhaving that guidance, you know,
and having somebody support youand tell you, Hey, this is what
you need to do. This is how youcan do it. And just don't give

(58:44):
up and just keep grinding. Andit's gonna happen, you know,
like, just keep working hard.
And sooner or later, something'sgonna break for you. So I think
that's pretty well,absolutely. Yeah. And it's been
cool to, like social media hasgrown so much in that aspect. In
the last few years that I'vehad, like all these personal
interactions with people, theycan shoot me a message and I can

(59:05):
respond to them. And I thinkthey are able to relate and see
that we're not just like theserobots in blue suits that are
unrelatable. And like, that isan unattainable position. They
see that we have families andthat we have hobbies and that
we're balancing all the thingsjust like everyone else. And I
think that's just a really coolimpact to leave behind. When I
leave the team. I hope that thatwill continue once I'm gone.

(59:28):
Yeah, absolutely.
Kind of humanizing the job alittle bit, but you know, still
maintaining this level ofeliteness that, you know, people
can look up to and aspire to.
And like you said, especiallyyoung women, but even just women
in general around the globe canlook to you for as a source of
inspiration. And I think I canspeak for women around the globe

(59:50):
when we say that we're so proudof you. And yeah, that's That's
amazing, and congratulations onall Have your accomplishments
and I was you know, I was kindof taken back. I don't even know
how you and I started talking.
But I just remember being sostoked. I'm like, oh my god,
like the female Thunderbird istalking to me on Instagram.

(01:00:16):
I left out one of your videolike one of your voiceover
videos. I think I just respondedto how funny it was because
they're so funny. I reallyappreciate that. It's not just
super serious all the time. Ithink that's how the
conversation. Got it. Yeah, Iwas like, Oh, she thinks I'm
funny.
Yeah, all right. All right. I'mjust kidding. Well,

(01:00:39):
you know, I'll tell you what,not everybody appreciates my
comedy. My aviation comedy. Somepeople think, you know, I get I
get some naysayers, you know,people that I've worked for in
the past that didn't appreciatethe humor. You know, anyways,
but yeah,whatever. I get naysayers to
yeah, there's no matter what jobyou're in. There's gonna be the

(01:01:01):
trolls and the naysayers. Yeah,I should not read the comments.
But sometimes I do and I getfired up. And sometimes.
This one person I you know, Iwas looking back at one of my
old videos, and there was justone comment that was like, oh my
god, are you serious? You lookso dumb. Why are you so stupid?

(01:01:22):
How can you be okay with lookingso stupid? Oh. Oh, I didn't even
remember this comment must haveblocked it out.
It was pretty funny. No, I willsay like, when I read the
comment, I'll just like what Ilike what a troll but it was
pretty is pretty funny.

(01:01:43):
So mean, he was a pilot outthere in Switzerland or
something? I don't know. Yeah,it was a it's like about you're
supposed to be neutral, bro.
Funny, anti Diane, but that'sokay. I'm cool with it. I was

(01:02:03):
super stoked that that youinteracted with me. Because you
know, I hold you guys up there.
Like, you know, like I seeThunderbirds, and you guys are
the elite of the elite. And Ifelt really special that you
said something. And now we'rehere. So here we are. Yeah, here
we are. I've been really lookingforward to this interview. So
it's so cool to hear your storyand the ups and downs of the

(01:02:26):
job. And anybody out there who'swanting to go that path, they
think you've kind of shown thatit's an attainable thing and
kind of paved the way for peopleto follow you follow in your
footsteps if they want to dosomething like this. So that's
really cool.

(01:02:48):
Yeah, I hope so that's reallythe goal, you know, is to
encourage people to chasewhatever that dream is. Even if
it's not joining the military orbecoming a Thunderbird. I think
it just pushes people to do thatthing that they see is hard, and
kind of scary. And there's achance of failure, because the
reward is definitely worthtaking that chance.

(01:03:08):
Oh, what's next for majorMichelle? Karen.
That's what I'm trying to figureout right now. So normally, the
Thunderbirds is a two year gig,just because the schedule is
pretty, pretty busy. And forcareer progression. And all the
reasons it's only two years. Butwith COVID happening, all of us
that were in our second yearduring last season, got asked to

(01:03:28):
stay for a third year to kind ofjust give the teamwork
experience since we only didlike six air shows last year
instead of the normal, likealmost 40 different locations
that we and so I'm now trying tofigure out what's next. And
honestly, the flying on thisteam is super fun. And it's been
really cool. But like I said alittle bit, I the best part of

(01:03:49):
the job for me is just seeingthat I can inspire other people
and leave that impact. And soI'm trying to figure out how I
can continue to do that after Ileave the team because you
usually go back to your grayunit squatter, and you'll go
back to a combat unit andcontinue to fly either a 16th or
whatever airframe you came frombefore you join the team. And

(01:04:11):
that's an amazing job withreally cool missions. I mean, I
deployed doing doing thosemissions and it was super
rewarding you work with like thehighest caliber people around
and it's it's really cool, butthis has given me a little
insight into some other things Ican do and I'm just excited to
see how I can kind of transitionfrom the team and and keep doing
that so I haven't nailed downexactly how it's gonna play out

(01:04:33):
yet but it's definitely a workin progress. So we'll see what
happens. Very cool. Yeah, wellgood luck. Yeah. And good luck
with everything. And thank youlike for coming on and yeah, you
are an inspiration to Narita.
That's a sap and your Bumblestory was pretty fun. will say
your your Marine has been isright with a 10. The 810s are a

(01:04:54):
little closer to myinspiration So Bumble works for
some people. Okay, that's good.
That's good to know.
I mean, we were both in our 30s.
And this is our second marriagefor both of us and I have a
stepson, and he has a son who'snine and he's amazing at like,
so you think it I think you getinto your 30s Especially if

(01:05:16):
you're already married or youhave a child or baggage, however
that looks. You're just like,man, like how do I meet quality
people at this point, but Idon't know Bumble success story.
Maybe we just got lucky. Butit's worked out really well for
nabad.
Major, majorly awesome woman indeed, what a cool story. I just

(01:05:43):
love hearing pilot stories. Likeeveryone has such Oh, everyone
has such a Could you tell?
Everyone has such a uniquejourney? And hers is definitely
unique for sure. Like going fromROTC to being an apple picker?
Yeah, I know. Right. Right. Andfly and flying go to fly

(01:06:04):
Thunderbirds, also known asthunder board Monday. Sorry.
Inside joke, little inside joke.
But yeah, no, I'm so thrilledthat she was able to get the
permissions to come on thispodcast and share her story. And
hopefully this inspired anybodyout there who is also dreaming
of becoming a Thunderbird pilotand seeing what type of a path

(01:06:25):
she was able to take and carveout for herself. So really,
really awesome. Thank you somuch, Michelle, for coming on
the show. Alright, you guys, weare now to the end of the
episode, where we're going totalk about external and internal
pressures. We've all experiencedthem those voices inside of our

(01:06:46):
head or that boss, or clientthat's telling us to rush and to
get off the ground, make thatflight happen, otherwise known
as get their itis I know we'vetalked about this before in
other podcasts. But how can werecognize when this is
happening? How can we preventit? When we rush that's when bad
things happen. And I'vepersonally experienced this

(01:07:07):
sensation and managed to lie onmyself a solid overspeed on a
startup procedure that luckilydidn't end up worse. But, you
know, that's a really hardlesson to learn when all of the
holes of the proverbial, youknow, Swiss cheese lineup and a
mistake gets made. So how do weprotect ourselves? And how do we
check our fellow pilots when wenotice that we're going down

(01:07:30):
this path.
There are so many jobs in thehelicopter world that inherently
come with a lot of pressure toget off the ground fast. It
could be newsgathering,helicopter air ambulance
operations, or even an impatientclient. We as pilots have to
maintain a certain level ofpreparedness. Be calm when on

(01:07:52):
duty. And here are our top threesuggestions.
For suggestions, we added one.
Oh, that's right.
Number one, staying current andproficient with the aircraft
that you'll be operating.
Sometimes we fly multipleplatforms, and it can be a lot
of information to retain. Soit's important to have regular
study habits. Know yourlimitations, emergency

(01:08:13):
procedures, and performance. APis too often that we get
complacent. After we finish ourannual checkride should not
return to our study material.
Remember, we need to cultivategood habits. Remove
some of the heavy last minutepreflighting. But even before
getting to work, be proactivelychecking the weather TFRs

(01:08:36):
talking to other pilots on dutyto get maintenance updates for
the aircraft are going to beflying. So try not to leave
those items to right before yourflight.
Number three systematicchecklist usage. Don't get lazy.
Don't rush through it. Don't getcomplacent happens to everyone
and super easy to fall into ahabit of rushing through. When

(01:08:58):
you have the procedures memorizeactively remind yourself that
you might have otherdistractions and you could miss
something important. Flow verifyverify are also known as flow
verified squared. Andif you sense that one thing
after another is not goingaccording to plan. You're
feeling hectic and unprepared totake a flight take a moment to

(01:09:19):
step back, breathe and slowdown. And that's easier said
than done sometimes, but we canalso support each other. So if
you have other pilots on dutywith you create a safe space for
you to be able to approach eachother and communicate any
concerns also help each otherout two eyes are always better
than one. And that concludesthis episode. Thank you guys so
much for listening in again. Weapologize for the delay in

(01:09:42):
episodes but we are back andready to continue with season
number two. Don't forget to LIKEsubscribe. Leave us review on
Apple podcasts. It really helpsus out. We love you guys and fly
safe out there. Bye. Adios Wow