August 11, 2025 • 39 mins
What does it take to walk away from a stable job and build a multimillion-dollar lending business? Avery Robertson pulls back the curtain on his remarkable journey from cattle rancher to capital provider in this riveting conversation.
Avery's story begins in the wide-open spaces of one of America's largest cattle ranches before transitioning to agricultural lending. All the while, a passion for real estate investment simmered beneath the surface. Despite years of attending investor meetups and analyzing potential deals, Avery found himself stuck on the sidelines – until a pivotal moment when he realized his lending expertise could become his competitive advantage.
The path wasn't straightforward. There were nail-biting moments of committing to loans before having all the capital lined up, the constant balancing act of finding quality borrowers while raising investor funds, and eventually, that heart-pounding day when he finally quit his stable job. Now, with over $18 million in loans facilitated, mobile home parks in his portfolio, and an RV park under management, Avery shares the unfiltered truth about hard money lending and real estate investment.
What makes this conversation particularly valuable is Avery's transparency about both the challenges and strategies. He reveals his criteria for evaluating borrowers, red flags that make him hesitate, and his approach to structuring deals as win-win scenarios. For those curious about real estate lending, his explanation of the differences between joint venture partnerships and debt funds provides crucial insights rarely discussed in public forums.
Perhaps most compelling is Avery's reflection on the psychological journey – overcoming fear, developing grit, and finding the courage to take that next step forward. As he puts it, "Don't let fear rule you... use it to make sure you're making a wise decision, but jump in." His straightforward advice to take whatever opportunity stands directly in front of you serves as a powerful reminder that entrepreneurial success isn't built through giant leaps but through consistent, determined progress.
Ready to unlock insights from someone who's built a thriving business by helping other entrepreneurs achieve their real estate dreams? Listen now and discover how prayer, persistence, and partnership created a pathway to financial freedom and control.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Forget what you've heard.
Forged in Fire is where realentrepreneurs come to share the
untold truths of success thelate nights, the crushing
setbacks, the moments thatchange everything.
No fluff, just fire, ready tostep into the heat and unlock
(00:25):
what it really takes to build abusiness.
This is where legends are made.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to another
exciting episode of Forged inFire.
I'm your co-host, Nate FarmerEden.
I'm introduced by counterpartCole.
How we doing, brother.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Nate.
What's going on?
How are we doing today?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Doing good, doing good.
It's a Tuesday afternoon, well,almost afternoon.
It's raining outside.
I'm in the office it's beenlike 100 degrees for the last
few days and I'm just like youknow what I'm ready for the
weekend.
I don't know Enough about me.
How about you?
Speaker 3 (01:04):
I love it.
I love it.
It's a heat wave here, so it'sdefinitely not raining.
I wish it would, but I don'tknow.
Life's good.
The universe, for some reason,is challenging me on zoning.
It's trying to drill somezoning lesson into me and we're
getting nailed on every singleaspect possible.
I'm up to my eyeballs in that.
But hey, it's fine, Laugh itoff right.
So I'm trying to tell myself,at least so it's been good.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
But A question on that for you Are you going to
give us an update, week by week,in a play by play, on how this
all sort of pans out?
Speaker 3 (01:35):
I can if you want, but to be honest, I've learned
that nothing happens week byweek, it's like month by month.
So I'll give you updates if Igot on, but otherwise, no, I'll
give you a quick update on theiroffice building, though.
So, to make a very long storyshort, we had our architects
come in and they're trying tofigure out the best way to make
everything work.
And when I say make everythingwork, I mean get it up to code.
And when I say get up to code,I mean put all these bogus
(01:58):
regulations in that we have tohave.
So, for instance, the office hasa step it needs, needs to be
ADA accessible.
Hey, that's cool.
So we got to build a ramp nobig deal.
But the bathroom is a littletoo small for ADA.
So naturally they want us torip the entire bathroom down and
rebuild it.
So that's just wonderful.
And so we have the whole shopsection, and we're trying to
(02:20):
avoid renovating that yet andwe're trying to see if we can
get that through and some otherlittle things.
So, anyways, the architectswent in, they took their surveys
and plans, and now we're justwaiting to hear back.
So that's what's going on rightnow.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Holy cow, Never a dull moment right.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Never dull, always expensive, is what I'm learning
with this stuff.
But hey, that's how this stuffgoes.
So look, enough about thesecrazy projects.
I'm excited for this interviewand to everybody listening, most
of you guys do not do the onething that we ask you, and it's
the one single thing that wouldreally really help us and help
us teach you more, and that isjust to follow us or comment or
(03:01):
just subscribe any of thosethings, which are all really the
same.
So that's what helps us grow,that's what helps keep giving us
better guests, and so if youcould do that, that would really
really mean a lot for us.
So please just hit the followbutton and, besides that, sit
back, relax, enjoy the show.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Dude.
This show is going to be crazy,as they all seem to flow into
man.
Today we're going to beinterviewing Avery.
This dude is amazing.
Long and short of his story andI'm going to let him tell it
way better is he became a lender.
He realized that there was somehardships within the real
estate space.
He had grabbed some amazingmentors.
I'm sure he's going to touchbase on them and they have some
famous mentors of his that werehelping him out.
(03:39):
But enough about me trying toexplain his story.
Let me go ahead and bring himon.
Avery.
How you doing, brother, come onstage, man.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
Doing really well.
How are you guys?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Doing good.
Thank you, man.
Thank you so much for cominginto Forged in Fires.
Please tell us a little bitabout yourself.
What got you here?
What brought?
Speaker 4 (03:57):
you here.
So I, you know I've always hadan interest in finance and
investing kind of my whole life.
You know I thinking back, evenas a kid, I remember just kind
of starting a few little youknow side little businesses,
like kids do, and but neverreally knowing where to take
them and get those next stepsand really I guess not having
(04:18):
the right mentors to show mewhat I could do, and then kind
of fast forwarding.
You know, I went to, went tocollege, I studied um ag
business, was kind of going intothe cattle world and worked on
a on a one of the the U S islargest cattle ranch in Florida,
and did that for a couple ofyears and you know I really
(04:40):
enjoyed that.
And that whole time too, thoughI was still looking for
investment opportunities,listening to Dave Ramsey, trying
trying to be smart financiallyand then getting into Rich Dad,
poor Dad, discovering biggerpockets and just you know,
telling my wife like hey, we'vegot to invest, we got to get
into real estate, trying tofigure that out, and I ended up
(05:01):
leaving that ranch and taking ajob as a ag lender, so doing the
farm and ranch loans here inIdaho, and I was at that job for
just over seven years and samething during that time, like we
really wanted to get a househack, you know, and we looked at
we're looking at a lot ofproperties and this was right,
(05:24):
you know, 2017.
So real estate was starting totake off and heat up and there
wasn't a lot of inventory and alot of competition and we had a
few, a few chances at once, butjust kind of always got that
cold feed or didn't pull thetrigger and just kind of get my
wife and I on the same page andto make that commitment.
And I was attending all theseREIA events the Real Estate
(05:45):
Investor Association.
We had some meetup groups herein Idaho and I was going to
those and trying to network andtrying to see where I could get
my foot in the door.
It seemed like at the time,single family rentals were
getting tough to cash flow, so alot of people guys were
flipping homes around here andso I tried doing that, tried to
do some direct mail.
(06:05):
I knocked on a bunch of doors,you know, I cold called sellers
and I just like, I never found,never found a deal.
And I was at a re-event and aguy named Matt Strong from Utah.
He came on and was talkingabout hard money.
He, he did a lot of lending inUtah and quite a bit here in
Idaho and it just kind ofconnected at that point.
(06:28):
I was like I'm a lender by myday job.
I do these farm and ranch loansso I know how to look at
collateral and analyze that.
I've been trying to find my owninvestment so I've been
analyzing deals.
I was like I could be the hardmoney lender and I talked with a
buddy of mine who was acoworker and kind of told him my
, my plan and and he had somebetter connections to some
(06:51):
capital and I kind of had theidea and the know-how at least.
And uh, it's a long story short.
We kind of brought thatbusiness together and, um, now
it's taken off.
I've, after doing it for overfour years now.
Last April I left my due joband been working for myself for
the last year.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
That is incredible.
There's so much I want to diveinto there.
So I guess first, my firstquestion is you mentioned why
you got into lending.
That completely makes sense.
Is there something that youprefer to lend on?
Is there a certain type ofasset?
Is there things that you won'tlook at, Like talking about?
What do you guys like and why?
Speaker 4 (07:32):
Yeah, I mean as a lender, right Like, our thing is
all about collateral,especially as a hard money
lender.
I'm not looking at your taxesand your income, your credit
report, so I'm really just likedo you know what you're doing?
Is this a good property and if,in the worst case scenario,
could I liquidate this andrecover my investment?
And so majority of what I do issingle family homes fix and
(07:55):
flip.
I'll do like a six month loanfor house flippers and then but
really we'll look at otherthings as well, but we just want
there to be.
Is there skin in the game fromthe borrower?
Is there value in the propertyand is it like something I could
liquidate and recover myinvestment if it came to that?
Speaker 2 (08:19):
I love this so much.
We can go back to this lendingthing in a second, but there's a
few other key pieces that Ineed to sort of harp in on and
we can talk as much or as leastas you would like to on them.
I see also here from the biothat you also invest in
syndications and you close onyour own RV park as well.
That's right.
You were talking about yourself.
(08:41):
Tell me about it, brother.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
That's true.
Yeah, I, you know I one of myfirst investments was actually
into a syndication, because youknow I wasn't getting that
traction and I think you knowfor a lot of people it's like
taking the opportunity you haveat the time.
It's like, and as you getlonger in the game you'll get
more and more opportunities.
But I think in 2021, I investedmy first syndication.
(09:07):
It was an industrial kind offlex building, so it was new
development, built to rentindustrial warehouse space in
Idaho and that was my firstinvestment.
Actually, I had some cash andthen I also used a 401k loan and
put $50,000 into this place andthen from there after that I
(09:30):
got into the hard money lendingand then it's really kind of
ramped up in the last year or so.
Last year I had a partner and Ithat you know.
Just, I think networking ishuge, right, like, that's so
much of what I've done has comefrom that.
Like at the Rio I learned abouthard money and then I networked
with the guy that was in themobile home space I had known
for a few years.
(09:50):
Uh, me and him partnered on amobile home park in nebraska
last year and that you knowthat's been a just a great deal.
Um, rents were like 160 onaverage when we bought it and
it's a small park.
We're talking like, I mean, Ithink there's like eight
occupied lots, right, like asmall deal.
We bought it for $90,000 withsome seller financing, but now
(10:13):
rents are at $300 plus a utilitybill back.
So I mean it's just been a bigturnaround on that one.
And then, yeah, this a fewmonths ago we closed on a RV
park here in Idaho as well.
So and that was also just aconnection.
Uh, you know I had made aconnection with um and a pal um,
(10:34):
he also has a podcast and thenshe connected me with this guy
who was the partner on the RVpark.
So we're in the thick of thatright now, getting that turned
around.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
That's awesome.
Emma's great.
We had her on this and she wasvery fun.
So, yeah, highly recommend.
I love that you brought up themeetups and you know you're
chatting about how importantthey are.
We just think they'reinvaluable and that's kind of
how I got a lot of my start wasgoing to meetups and meeting the
right people and I just kind ofget your foot in the door.
I got to ask you've had a lotof success from the meetup.
(11:06):
So, like you met these partnersfrom that or one thing led to
the next.
What do you do when you go to ameetup?
Because I find a lot of peoplego, okay, I go to a happened and
we're like, yeah, of course,because you didn't go chat.
So what do you recommendsomebody does if they're getting
into real estate and somebodysays you should go to meetups,
what makes it productive?
Speaker 4 (11:29):
Yeah, for sure.
I think you know the magic atthe meetup happens like after.
If there's a presentation,let's say after that's over, you
know, and I used to go and thepresentation happens and then
you're like this is awkward, Idon't know anyone, I'm out of
here, right, but I just stickingaround and embracing the
awkward and and just talking topeople, right, like everyone is.
If they're at a meetup like 95,99 of them, that I mean they
(11:53):
want to connect with people,right.
So I mean just introduceyourself, ask people what they
do, and you know what they needand how they're doing it, if
there's a problem you have.
So yeah, I mean just opening inyour mouth and talking to
people.
So, and I didn't, I was thatguy for a while, like I was
there for years where nothingwas happening.
I'm like is it worth to keepcoming back to these?
(12:14):
Everyone's doing things and I'mjust not sure where to go.
But it kind of you get momentumand keep making those
connections.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Oh my gosh, I love it For all the listeners that are
out there.
There was this old saying andI'm going to butcher it, I'm
going to slaughter it, Iapologize, but there's this old
saying about if you're in aclassroom, just raise your hand
and ask the question, becausenine times out of 10, there are
other people sitting around youthat have the exact same
question.
And I say that to say this.
This is the exact same way whenit comes to meetups as well.
If you're nervous, if you havesome hesitation, if you have
(12:44):
some reservation, just do it.
There's other people out therethat are going to be nervous,
but somebody's got to take thatfirst step.
Somebody's got to move theneedle forward.
Why not let it be?
You Look, it happened for Avery.
Avery did it.
Avery's like you know what.
I'm just going to go ahead andmake this happen, and he did.
He's making shit happen.
I'm proud of him for it.
So, brother, you can take thisin whatever direction you would
like, but tell me about some ofthe hardships, some of the
(13:07):
challenges.
Rather be on the lending side,rather be from diversification,
from syndication, going intorunning your own RV park,
because if you're lending juston single family, single family
is a whole different beast thanrunning an RV park park, let me
tell you.
So please talk to us about someof the hardships that you're
enduring yeah, I mean it's the.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
There's always a like it just takes, you know,
discipline to kind of keepgrowing.
Like I mean, listen someone ona podcast and you hear those
highlights and you know we're,do, we're doing all these great
things.
Like it just it sounds so faraway and so foreign.
But like the, the devil's inthe details, right.
Like by just doing thosedetails and consistency every
day.
Like things build up on eachother.
(13:49):
You know, in lending it's achallenge.
Like so I'm, I put some of myown capital on each loan, but
then I have majorities comingfrom investors, right, and so
I've had to call these investorsand make these relationships
and then I'm balancing that out.
So I've got to get out thereand find loans to do and I've
(14:10):
got to go out there and findinvestors for the money.
And it's a seesaw all the time.
It's a challenge to keep thatin balance.
It never works out perfectlyright.
Like at one point you mighthave more people asking for
money than you have the fund forat the time, and especially in
the first few years, that wasalways big.
(14:32):
Like I've always been kind ofgrowing hand to mouth right as
my demand for the loansincreases.
I'm right there trying to getthe investor capital to increase
as well.
And so there been times where,like I've told people and they
don't see this, it's all behindthe scenes to me sweating but
I'm like, yeah, I'll do thisloan but I'm not like 100 sure
(14:52):
where that money is coming fromat the time.
So I'm like I'm I'm calling allthese because I have making it
happen, pooling funds together,moving things around, and you
know, thank God, like I've beenable to make them happen, like I
haven't had to turn people awayfor that, but it's, it's a,
it's a grind, for sure.
It's just going out there andbelieving, you know, I just I
(15:14):
always have, maybe, this naivebelief like, oh, I'll find the
money, I'll find the way to doit, and you know, you know when
to say no too.
But um, but it's a good deal,like I, I make these connections
and make it happen and it comestogether.
But it's not without somesleepless, sleepless times of
some nail biting, for sure.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
That's awesome, but I think it's cool for people to
hear that because I didn'trealize until relatively
recently, um, in like the hardmoney space, that a lot of it
wasn't those guys' capital it's.
You know, I always thought itwas a bank that was kind of
doing the role and that somebodyjust had limited money that was
involved and that's how it went.
And that's not the case.
Usually it's somebody, like yousaid, like yourself, that is
basically brokering the loansand bringing in people and
(15:55):
that's not probably the properterm but, you know, making it
all happen.
So it's awesome.
I think it's important forpeople to understand that I like
talking about the lending stuffbecause I feel like there's so
much misconception around it.
So if you're looking at it andyou're looking at a borrower, if
somebody comes up to you andsays, hey, I want to do a deal,
what are, like, the mostimportant things you look for?
And maybe part two to that whatare some like red flags that
(16:18):
you would say, hey, don't eversay this to me or I watch out
for this yeah, you know, I in inin the investing world, like as
the as the active investor, theperson borrowing the money.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Like oftentimes we're high leverage right, like you
hear.
Like I want 100 financing andall those things.
But like true hard moneylearners, like that's really
rare to find, you might find aprivate, you know relationship
with the one-off high net worthindividual that will fund those
deals for you at a high leverageamount.
But like guys like myself whoare doing this day after day,
(16:55):
like you know the reason we'redoing hard money is because, um,
we're protected by collateraland so that's a big thing for me
is like you know what can youbring to the table.
And then, like experience toand communication.
So my, like I love I want theseto be win, win right.
Like when I look at a deal,like I only want to do the deal,
(17:17):
like if I think this is gonnamake you money, like so I
analyze, hey, if I was going toflip this house, all right,
here's, here's how much youthink your rehab budget is.
I run comps and this is whatthe house should be worth, so I
think you'll have a profit of,you know, 30 grand, 40 grand
when it's done.
Great, yeah, let's do this deal.
(17:38):
Give me, you know, 15, 20% down, whatever it is based on, kind
of what we've done, and thenit's a go and then we can make
it pretty easy.
But like, sometimes you come toit and I look at this deal and
I'm just like I'm not seeingthese comps.
Like you know, it's just thishouse has to sell for this but
nothing else has sold for it.
(17:58):
And those are likeconversations I think are
important to have and be like,hey, I don't, I don't see really
a margin here for you.
Like you know, help me, if I'mmissing something, let's talk
through this.
But like I don't want to dodeals that I think are going to
end up getting them in a badspot as well.
Oh, I think you know, knowingcoming to me and kind of and
(18:19):
having obviously a skin in thegame, you know, be able to put
some money down, kind of knowingyour numbers, what your exit
strategy is, exactly what yourrehab budget is I feel I'm
pretty good about what thatafter repair value is is great.
(18:40):
And then you know that firstloan is always a good test of a
relationship.
Once we can through that, Ilove repeat borrowers that, hey,
I know they're gonna keep me inthe loop if something starts
going south.
It's like don't don't go hideyour head in the sand, just keep
me in the loop and let's talkand see if how we can work
through this.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
Nate, I can't hear you.
We might be lagging.
Oh no, we went silent.
All right, while Nate figuresthat out, I'll ask you a
follow-up question.
Nate, keep trying to figurethat out.
Do you guys have, like, aspecific market that you focus
on or specific markets that yourlenders focus on?
(19:25):
And if so, well, I guess let mestart with that.
Is that the case?
Yeah, If we have a specificmarket was that your question,
yeah, or is it like nationwide?
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Yeah, no, for me it's really primarily Idaho, just
because I know, I know themarket and I have access to most
of the MLS here because I'm alicensed realtor so I can run my
own comps and kind of have afeel for it.
I'll lend in some neighboringStates that are close by, like
I've done some in WesternWyoming and things, but
(20:02):
definitely focuses on on Idaho,ok, I know, I'm sorry, I was
just going to say withoutpivoting.
I know you kind of talked aboutsome red flags.
When a borrower calls I thinkthere's a few, you know there's
not many I would say that justlike, oh, these are consistent
(20:23):
red flags.
But you know I have people likeI've had a guy once like call
for own and you know just measking for some information to
kind of understand what he wasdoing, like he kind of he wasn't
too happy that I was just likehey, this is just a deal, like
(20:43):
you just should be a privilegedto lend me this money.
Most people are like the mostwhen they're asking for money.
That's when they're willing tojump through the hoops and do
the best, and it's once theyhave the money and things go
south.
Then they're harder to deal with.
So if it's already a littlehard to deal with before I've
given you money, that's kind ofa red flag to me, like, ok, what
problems are going to havelater if me just asking some
(21:05):
questions about the project andyour budget and this, and that
just seems like a burden to you.
So you know, I think realizing,realizing like this is there,
this is a working relationshipand and taking that stewardship?
Hey, if I'm wearing two hundredfour hundred five hundred
(21:27):
thousand dollars, like that's abig and and taking that
stewardship.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
If, hey, if I'm borrowing 200, 400, 500, 000,
like that's a big responsibilityand and taking that serious.
Oh, you're not back yet, shoot,all right, nate, just keep
trying to jump in and eventuallywe'll find you here.
Um, all right sounds so.
Do you have a favorite betweendoing lending I'm assuming it's
lending, but doing lending doingthe mobile home parks?
Is there anything else that youwant to get into?
Or do you kind of just want tobuckle down, keep growing your
(21:50):
business as it sits?
What does kind of like thefuture look like?
Speaker 4 (21:57):
Yeah, you know I I love the lending space, I think
you know it's it's it's a very abusiness where you can
obviously involves leverage, butit's a high leverage business
as well.
Um, and I can really scale andI I like that.
You know, long term, looking onthe road, like I want to be the
, the passive guy right likewhere I'm not actively out there
(22:19):
underwriting loans andconstantly raising capital and
doing these things.
I think when I get to a point,you know my goal isn't to have
this the biggest business in theworld or be the biggest lender
in the nation.
You know is to have financialfreedom where we can, my family
and I can pursue what interestsus and the passion projects or
(22:40):
whatever else it is that we wantto do.
So I think for the, for a good,you know, for the near future,
you know five plus years in thefuture still be doing the
lending, focusing on that.
But I am wanting to take someopportunities to kind of grow
this passive side too.
I just recently put a littlebit of money in another
syndication and you know I lovethe mobile home park, like, once
(23:04):
it's up and going like it'sit's really just consistent
mailbox money the RV parks.
Quite a bit of work right now,but I think once we get the
systems in place too, hopefullyit turns into the same thing.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Let me try this again .
Can you guys hear me now?
Yes, you're back I'm back, holycow, okay.
So sidebar rookie mistake, Ileft my official mic at home in
my other office, so I'm like letme go ahead and use this
generic mic set and it just likecompletely died on me, even
though it's plugged in via usb.
It's fine, I apologize, guys.
(23:39):
I'm back now, so let me back.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
No worries.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Thank you.
Let me take this back.
So we talked about, like thelending side.
So if somebody was interestedin coming in and they had like a
home and what yourqualifications were, but what if
you and me met and I didn'tknow much about real estate and
I had my own money and I wantedto become a lender, what advice
could you give to somebody thatwants to do it?
And or, what's more important,to be able to, why would I do it
(24:07):
myself versus work with you?
Or?
Speaker 4 (24:08):
would you recommend?
Speaker 2 (24:09):
me work with you to be able to get my feet wet.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Fill me in on that.
Yeah, you know the the veryfirst time I did it I actually
went with this guy, matt Strongthat presented, and you know I
called him up after the REIA andsaid guy matt strong that
presented, and you know I calledhim up after the rea and said
hey, I really enjoyed yourpresentation.
I've got a question for you,like I know I would.
I kind of want to do whatyou're doing and I understand I
would be competing against youin a way up here, but I was
(24:32):
wondering if you'd be willing tokind of open the curtains and
help me understand and andthat's.
You know, just stand up, guy.
And he was super willing to dothat and talk me through things.
And and he opened the door andjust said why don't you invest
with me on one?
You can see what that lookslike and then see if you want to
keep doing it.
And so I, I invested in a loanwith him and you know that's
(24:52):
that's really, I think for a lotof people that's going to be
the a couple hundred thousanddollars to lend out.
You know it's going to take thetime to make sure that you find
those borrowers and and thatyou can keep that money
(25:14):
constantly.
Well, by myself I'm I'vecreated that, um, this business
where I have the loans coming in, where I can keep that money
working consistently and things.
But that's not to say, if it'ssomething you're interested in,
that you shouldn't pursue it.
So I would say, um, you know,get out there and and just get
your feet wet, find a, tellpeople you have money, go to a
(25:36):
meetup or something and say, hey, I'm looking to lend some dill
and you'll be a popular personin that room, I think.
And and get your feet wet, makesure you're, you got you got
some down, a down payment, theyhave skin in the game and you
got your paperwork right andthat you have a first lane
position.
And you know, here in idaho wework with title companies.
I know some states haveattorneys, whatever it is,
(25:58):
making sure that you're in thefirst lane and that your values
there in the property and justget the paperwork in way and
give it a shot.
But you know we're investingwith someone like myself is a
great way to get started andthen see if it's something you
know, if that's what you wantedto pursue.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Now is this something that could like potentially
turn into like a fund, of fundmodels, to where you can have,
like, investors come in and youjust pull all the stuff together
and then you're sort of justsitting on this money, naturally
offering a return, but thenjust being able to branch out
and diversify amongst whateverassets you want to rather be
single family or whatever, whathave you and then growers.
(26:36):
I never knew that you thoughtabout going down, or let me know
about that.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
Yeah, you know, I think there's a lot of
opportunity in the fund space.
I could, I could turn this intoa strictly a debt fund and just
kind of grow that way.
And there's some pros and consto doing it that way versus kind
of the joint venture, kind ofpartnership way I've been
structuring it.
And then you know it isinteresting, after this last
(27:03):
time talking about this RV parkwe bought, I have had some
investors that have investedwith me on the lending side ask
about the RV park andopportunities there.
So yeah, I'm not sure where thefuture will go, but you know, I
think, as we think big andwhere things can grow, there's
definitely opportunity where youknow we can start raising some
(27:24):
capital and doing a fund orsyndication for some RV parks or
this or that.
But you know, right now I'mgoing to put most of my eggs in
the lending basket and focus onthat and try to systemize other
investments and then, asopportunities come up on there,
we'll see where that takes us.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
I love that.
I'm curious what are the prosand cons doing a debt fund
versus the joint venture?
Just because you said that, nowI'm very curious any means.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
But once you have those funds in place, you have a
lot more latitude to control.
Let's say, I have a $10 millionfund and I've got that fully
funded and I know I have $10million.
I know what I'm working with soI know how much funds I have at
(28:25):
a time.
While in my space I talk toinvestors, I know how much they
want to invest or have investedcurrently and how much they
might have on the sidelines.
But it's not like it's sittingin my bank account and I just
have control that send it out.
I find the deal.
I kind of have them on thesideline and I'm and I'm
actively playing that matchmakergame.
So there's a little more stressthat goes into that.
But then also on the fund model, you kind of have that stress
(28:48):
of if I've taken on $10 millionand it's in this fund account,
you know I've got to keep thatdeployed and make sure that's
going out there as well.
And because I've told themthey're going to get whatever
return.
However that fund's set up, youknow is that 10% annualized or
you know there's many ways tostructure it.
But and this has worked well forwhat I'm doing I I think one of
(29:11):
the biggest pros to to the wayI'm doing it is on the raising
capital side.
Um, because, looking back, likewhen I first started, like you
know, my friend and I would callup some guys we know that might
have some money and we'reexplaining to them what we're
doing.
I can show them like hey,there's this property in Idaho
you know they lived in Idaho.
(29:32):
They're putting this much moneydown.
This is the borrower.
And then I here's the deed oftrust and all the loan documents
.
They can see my money issecured by this property.
Well, oftentimes on a fundthere's different funds as well.
It's kind of blind.
You don't necessarily knowexactly what you're going into
and that.
So it can be a little morechallenging, I think, to raise
(29:52):
money in the starting phase thatway.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
I love that, super helpful.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Thousand percent, and I think you might be Cole.
You think he's ready?
Speaker 3 (30:03):
I think he's ready.
I agree, avery, we got asurprise for you.
Avery we got a surprise for youall right so, avery, we're going
to ask you these six questionswe ask them to every single
guest and, uh, we're going tosee what you say and you can
answer at length.
You can answer succinctly,really whatever you want to do,
(30:23):
but we're going to do our bestto not respond to you and just
keep rolling, and usually wedon't do that, we, we fail.
But we'll see what happens.
I'm ready.
First question what separatestop performing entrepreneurs
from the rest of the crowd?
Speaker 4 (30:41):
Grit, you know, just being able to stick in there
when the when it's not all roses.
You know, in the tough times,when you feel like giving up and
you don't feel like doing it,it's just the grit to keep
moving forward.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
What's a daily habit that's contributed to your
success?
Speaker 4 (31:02):
You know, for me, I think you know it's it's prayer,
to be honest, I think, dailyprayer.
And for those, no matter whatyour religion is, I think,
meditation, taking time to bestill and think and you know, if
you are religious, whateverthat takes, I think that centers
(31:22):
ourselves and helps us focus onwhat matters most and get ready
for the day and the next week.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
What is a piece of advice that you'd give to
yourself if you're startingagain?
Speaker 4 (31:39):
I would say don't be afraid.
You know, I think some fear isgood.
Like you know, I talked to alot of other entrepreneurs and
there's like, oh I, always,every time I sign the contract
on that new property, there'salways a little nervousness and
fear.
But it's like learning to dealwith that and overcome it.
Not let the fear rule you.
(32:00):
I guess, use it to make sureyou're making a wise decision.
But but jump in, like when Iquit my job, like I, I had
thought about it like a yearbefore and the timing wasn't
quite right.
And when I finally decided todo it, like I had been talking
to my wife about it, I told herhey, I'm going to do this to you
know, tomorrow.
And she's like, ah, no, you'renot, I'm going to do it.
(32:24):
Like we're going to make ithappen.
And like that whole morning I'mlike pretty nervous to go talk
to my boss and like pull theplug off from the paycheck,
right, and I, I set the time andI did it.
And now, like, looking back,you know, I have no regrets and
and and I'm not looking back atall.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Dude.
Hats off to you, Anybody that'slistening.
I'm notorious for this.
Pause, this rewind.
Play this whole thing all theway back.
So many nuggets have just beendropped.
This is amazing.
What is your favorite businessbook?
Speaker 4 (33:01):
Yeah, that's a great question.
You know, right now I'm in theSeven Habits of Highly Effective
People and I had picked thatone up years ago and and like
oftentimes got partway throughand then put it back on the
shelf.
But like right now, it's reallyhitting home.
I think it's a great book thattalks about a lot of the great
attributes to be an effectiveperson in this and in life.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
What is your favorite part of owning your business?
Speaker 4 (33:34):
What is your favorite part of owning your business?
I think it's the freedom andthe control right Like the
freedom to control my schedule,the freedom to control it, to
influence how much.
You know what my income is Like.
I'm not set by the salary and abonus structure.
It's you know.
Know, if I put the time andefforts in, I see the fruits of
those, my labor.
So I think, having having thatcontrol and obviously the stress
(33:58):
, responsibility that comes fromit, but the work I do, I add to
that too, like I love oh sorry,I paused there for a second,
but I, you know, I love to justthe freedom, like you know, with
my family, like obviously, likethere's probably times I work
(34:20):
more than I had a w2 job.
But I also like, when I want totake off and you know this, we
just got back from a trip toutah this weekend.
We might drive out to, you know, some family across the country
later this summer it's like thefreedom just to pick it up and
do it and like and manage yourwork schedule.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
I love it.
What is something new thatyou've implemented in your
business that's helped driveyour success?
Speaker 4 (35:00):
I I recently kind of hired the first um kind of
part-time employee contractorand you know that's.
You know that book I read that10x is better than 2x or easier
than 2x, something along thoselines.
Like you know it has it's.
It is like it's has lots ofgreat insight and like it's hard
to commit to wanting to paysomeone or grow to this next
level but by taking things offmy plate and giving it to
(35:22):
someone else.
Lets me focus on, you know,those income producing items
that I can do best awesome averythis has been fun.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
It's cool just dialing all the way back and
hearing income producing itemsthat I can do best.
Awesome, avery, this has beenfun.
It's cool just dialing all theway back and hearing your story.
So you started in theagriculture world at a cattle
ranch.
You started listening to allthe notorious stuff the Ramsey,
the Bigger Pockets, all thatstuff and kind of getting that
itch.
And then going into theagriculture lending and doing
the farm and the loans andthings, and then headed to the
(35:50):
meetups, the REI meetings, andthen becoming your own hard
money lender and then justgrowing that and now you're
full-time self-employed.
You just hired somebody andthings are growing and it's
super cool to hear that, not tomention the other investments,
the mobile home parks, et cetera.
So I have two final questionsfor you.
One, any final advice?
And two, where can people findout more about you or just find
(36:14):
you?
Speaker 4 (36:18):
Yeah, I, you know.
I think any advice would belike just just take the next
step that's in front of you.
It's.
It's easy to see all these bigbusinesses.
Like you know, we've I've doneover like $18 million of loans
now.
It's easy to see all these bigbusinesses I've done over $18
million of loans now.
But when I first started thebusiness, my partner and I we
were like man, if we could getto a million dollars at a time,
(36:41):
that would be huge, right, andthat was just this big milestone
for us.
And we just took these smallsteps at a time.
And then, as we grow, we'relike you know what we can.
We can change this goal and dothis.
Like you know, the first thingis if you're working at your job
and like is maximizing that401k, maximizing what you can do
there, putting as much intothat as you can, and then
(37:01):
finding those next opportunities, so it's all gross.
So just take that opportunitythat's in front of you.
Take that first step.
What's your next step?
And sorry, remind me again ofthe second part of that question
when can people find you?
Yes, I'm on social media.
You can find me on LinkedIn.
That's a good place to connectwith me.
(37:22):
You can find on Facebook.
My business is a page there,j&r Capital.
But yeah, linkedin, averyRobertson, would be a place to
connect.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Avery, this has been amazing.
Brother, Thank you so much forcoming down to Forest and Fire.
Our house is your house.
You are welcome at any point.
For those that are out therelistening, make sure that you
pause, stop, rewind, play thisall the way back.
So many golden nuggets havebeen dropped and one of the
biggest takeaways and I hopethat you pause, stop, rewind,
play this all the way back.
So many golden nuggets havebeen dropped.
And one of the biggesttakeaways and I hope that you
guys are resonating strong withyou is continue to move the
needle forward.
(37:56):
Avery set huge, big, audacious,hairy goals of just being able
to hit a million, and now he'sat 18 million.
I don't know how much he'slending out and he did that by
setting those milestones andthen continuing to move the
needle forward every day, thathe would get up.
Even when he was stuck in theface of adversity, he would find
a way to plow through it, and Iknow that you guys can do that
as well.
So again, avery, thank you somuch for coming through.
(38:17):
Man, this has been an honor, apleasure and a privilege.
It's truly ours.
For those that are listening,if you are driving and this is
your daily commute- get, but wewill see you all next time on
Forged in Fire.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Take care everybody.
Thanks for tuning in to anotherepisode of Forged in Fire.
If you enjoyed today's raw,unfiltered stories, don't forget
to like, subscribe and leave usa review.
Your feedback helps us bringmore real-world insights to
entrepreneurs like you.
Be sure to join us next timefor even more lessons, struggles
(38:53):
and breakthroughs on the roadto success.
Keep forging ahead.
Forget what you've heard.
Forged in Fire is where realentrepreneurs come to share the
untold truths of success thelate nights, the crushing
setbacks, the moments thatchange everything.
No fluff, just fire, ready tostep into the heat and unlock
(00:25):
what it really takes to build abusiness.
This is where legends are made.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to another
exciting episode of Forged inFire.
I'm your co-host, Nate FarmerEden.
I'm introduced by counterpartCole.
How we doing, brother.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Nate.
What's going on?
How are we doing today?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Doing good, doing good.
It's a Tuesday afternoon, well,almost afternoon.
It's raining outside.
I'm in the office it's beenlike 100 degrees for the last
few days and I'm just like youknow what I'm ready for the
weekend.
I don't know Enough about me.
How about you?
Speaker 3 (01:04):
I love it.
I love it.
It's a heat wave here, so it'sdefinitely not raining.
I wish it would, but I don'tknow.
Life's good.
The universe, for some reason,is challenging me on zoning.
It's trying to drill somezoning lesson into me and we're
getting nailed on every singleaspect possible.
I'm up to my eyeballs in that.
But hey, it's fine, Laugh itoff right.
So I'm trying to tell myself,at least so it's been good.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
But A question on that for you Are you going to
give us an update, week by week,in a play by play, on how this
all sort of pans out?
Speaker 3 (01:35):
I can if you want, but to be honest, I've learned
that nothing happens week byweek, it's like month by month.
So I'll give you updates if Igot on, but otherwise, no, I'll
give you a quick update on theiroffice building, though.
So, to make a very long storyshort, we had our architects
come in and they're trying tofigure out the best way to make
everything work.
And when I say make everythingwork, I mean get it up to code.
And when I say get up to code,I mean put all these bogus
(01:58):
regulations in that we have tohave.
So, for instance, the office hasa step it needs, needs to be
ADA accessible.
Hey, that's cool.
So we got to build a ramp nobig deal.
But the bathroom is a littletoo small for ADA.
So naturally they want us torip the entire bathroom down and
rebuild it.
So that's just wonderful.
And so we have the whole shopsection, and we're trying to
(02:20):
avoid renovating that yet andwe're trying to see if we can
get that through and some otherlittle things.
So, anyways, the architectswent in, they took their surveys
and plans, and now we're justwaiting to hear back.
So that's what's going on rightnow.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Holy cow, Never a dull moment right.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Never dull, always expensive, is what I'm learning
with this stuff.
But hey, that's how this stuffgoes.
So look, enough about thesecrazy projects.
I'm excited for this interviewand to everybody listening, most
of you guys do not do the onething that we ask you, and it's
the one single thing that wouldreally really help us and help
us teach you more, and that isjust to follow us or comment or
(03:01):
just subscribe any of thosethings, which are all really the
same.
So that's what helps us grow,that's what helps keep giving us
better guests, and so if youcould do that, that would really
really mean a lot for us.
So please just hit the followbutton and, besides that, sit
back, relax, enjoy the show.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Dude.
This show is going to be crazy,as they all seem to flow into
man.
Today we're going to beinterviewing Avery.
This dude is amazing.
Long and short of his story andI'm going to let him tell it
way better is he became a lender.
He realized that there was somehardships within the real
estate space.
He had grabbed some amazingmentors.
I'm sure he's going to touchbase on them and they have some
famous mentors of his that werehelping him out.
(03:39):
But enough about me trying toexplain his story.
Let me go ahead and bring himon.
Avery.
How you doing, brother, come onstage, man.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
Doing really well.
How are you guys?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Doing good.
Thank you, man.
Thank you so much for cominginto Forged in Fires.
Please tell us a little bitabout yourself.
What got you here?
What brought?
Speaker 4 (03:57):
you here.
So I, you know I've always hadan interest in finance and
investing kind of my whole life.
You know I thinking back, evenas a kid, I remember just kind
of starting a few little youknow side little businesses,
like kids do, and but neverreally knowing where to take
them and get those next stepsand really I guess not having
(04:18):
the right mentors to show mewhat I could do, and then kind
of fast forwarding.
You know, I went to, went tocollege, I studied um ag
business, was kind of going intothe cattle world and worked on
a on a one of the the U S islargest cattle ranch in Florida,
and did that for a couple ofyears and you know I really
(04:40):
enjoyed that.
And that whole time too, thoughI was still looking for
investment opportunities,listening to Dave Ramsey, trying
trying to be smart financiallyand then getting into Rich Dad,
poor Dad, discovering biggerpockets and just you know,
telling my wife like hey, we'vegot to invest, we got to get
into real estate, trying tofigure that out, and I ended up
(05:01):
leaving that ranch and taking ajob as a ag lender, so doing the
farm and ranch loans here inIdaho, and I was at that job for
just over seven years and samething during that time, like we
really wanted to get a househack, you know, and we looked at
we're looking at a lot ofproperties and this was right,
(05:24):
you know, 2017.
So real estate was starting totake off and heat up and there
wasn't a lot of inventory and alot of competition and we had a
few, a few chances at once, butjust kind of always got that
cold feed or didn't pull thetrigger and just kind of get my
wife and I on the same page andto make that commitment.
And I was attending all theseREIA events the Real Estate
(05:45):
Investor Association.
We had some meetup groups herein Idaho and I was going to
those and trying to network andtrying to see where I could get
my foot in the door.
It seemed like at the time,single family rentals were
getting tough to cash flow, so alot of people guys were
flipping homes around here andso I tried doing that, tried to
do some direct mail.
(06:05):
I knocked on a bunch of doors,you know, I cold called sellers
and I just like, I never found,never found a deal.
And I was at a re-event and aguy named Matt Strong from Utah.
He came on and was talkingabout hard money.
He, he did a lot of lending inUtah and quite a bit here in
Idaho and it just kind ofconnected at that point.
(06:28):
I was like I'm a lender by myday job.
I do these farm and ranch loansso I know how to look at
collateral and analyze that.
I've been trying to find my owninvestment so I've been
analyzing deals.
I was like I could be the hardmoney lender and I talked with a
buddy of mine who was acoworker and kind of told him my
, my plan and and he had somebetter connections to some
(06:51):
capital and I kind of had theidea and the know-how at least.
And uh, it's a long story short.
We kind of brought thatbusiness together and, um, now
it's taken off.
I've, after doing it for overfour years now.
Last April I left my due joband been working for myself for
the last year.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
That is incredible.
There's so much I want to diveinto there.
So I guess first, my firstquestion is you mentioned why
you got into lending.
That completely makes sense.
Is there something that youprefer to lend on?
Is there a certain type ofasset?
Is there things that you won'tlook at, Like talking about?
What do you guys like and why?
Speaker 4 (07:32):
Yeah, I mean as a lender, right Like, our thing is
all about collateral,especially as a hard money
lender.
I'm not looking at your taxesand your income, your credit
report, so I'm really just likedo you know what you're doing?
Is this a good property and if,in the worst case scenario,
could I liquidate this andrecover my investment?
And so majority of what I do issingle family homes fix and
(07:55):
flip.
I'll do like a six month loanfor house flippers and then but
really we'll look at otherthings as well, but we just want
there to be.
Is there skin in the game fromthe borrower?
Is there value in the propertyand is it like something I could
liquidate and recover myinvestment if it came to that?
Speaker 2 (08:19):
I love this so much.
We can go back to this lendingthing in a second, but there's a
few other key pieces that Ineed to sort of harp in on and
we can talk as much or as leastas you would like to on them.
I see also here from the biothat you also invest in
syndications and you close onyour own RV park as well.
That's right.
You were talking about yourself.
(08:41):
Tell me about it, brother.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
That's true.
Yeah, I, you know I one of myfirst investments was actually
into a syndication, because youknow I wasn't getting that
traction and I think you knowfor a lot of people it's like
taking the opportunity you haveat the time.
It's like, and as you getlonger in the game you'll get
more and more opportunities.
But I think in 2021, I investedmy first syndication.
(09:07):
It was an industrial kind offlex building, so it was new
development, built to rentindustrial warehouse space in
Idaho and that was my firstinvestment.
Actually, I had some cash andthen I also used a 401k loan and
put $50,000 into this place andthen from there after that I
(09:30):
got into the hard money lendingand then it's really kind of
ramped up in the last year or so.
Last year I had a partner and Ithat you know.
Just, I think networking ishuge, right, like, that's so
much of what I've done has comefrom that.
Like at the Rio I learned abouthard money and then I networked
with the guy that was in themobile home space I had known
for a few years.
(09:50):
Uh, me and him partnered on amobile home park in nebraska
last year and that you knowthat's been a just a great deal.
Um, rents were like 160 onaverage when we bought it and
it's a small park.
We're talking like, I mean, Ithink there's like eight
occupied lots, right, like asmall deal.
We bought it for $90,000 withsome seller financing, but now
(10:13):
rents are at $300 plus a utilitybill back.
So I mean it's just been a bigturnaround on that one.
And then, yeah, this a fewmonths ago we closed on a RV
park here in Idaho as well.
So and that was also just aconnection.
Uh, you know I had made aconnection with um and a pal um,
(10:34):
he also has a podcast and thenshe connected me with this guy
who was the partner on the RVpark.
So we're in the thick of thatright now, getting that turned
around.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
That's awesome.
Emma's great.
We had her on this and she wasvery fun.
So, yeah, highly recommend.
I love that you brought up themeetups and you know you're
chatting about how importantthey are.
We just think they'reinvaluable and that's kind of
how I got a lot of my start wasgoing to meetups and meeting the
right people and I just kind ofget your foot in the door.
I got to ask you've had a lotof success from the meetup.
(11:06):
So, like you met these partnersfrom that or one thing led to
the next.
What do you do when you go to ameetup?
Because I find a lot of peoplego, okay, I go to a happened and
we're like, yeah, of course,because you didn't go chat.
So what do you recommendsomebody does if they're getting
into real estate and somebodysays you should go to meetups,
what makes it productive?
Speaker 4 (11:29):
Yeah, for sure.
I think you know the magic atthe meetup happens like after.
If there's a presentation,let's say after that's over, you
know, and I used to go and thepresentation happens and then
you're like this is awkward, Idon't know anyone, I'm out of
here, right, but I just stickingaround and embracing the
awkward and and just talking topeople, right, like everyone is.
If they're at a meetup like 95,99 of them, that I mean they
(11:53):
want to connect with people,right.
So I mean just introduceyourself, ask people what they
do, and you know what they needand how they're doing it, if
there's a problem you have.
So yeah, I mean just opening inyour mouth and talking to
people.
So, and I didn't, I was thatguy for a while, like I was
there for years where nothingwas happening.
I'm like is it worth to keepcoming back to these?
(12:14):
Everyone's doing things and I'mjust not sure where to go.
But it kind of you get momentumand keep making those
connections.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Oh my gosh, I love it For all the listeners that are
out there.
There was this old saying andI'm going to butcher it, I'm
going to slaughter it, Iapologize, but there's this old
saying about if you're in aclassroom, just raise your hand
and ask the question, becausenine times out of 10, there are
other people sitting around youthat have the exact same
question.
And I say that to say this.
This is the exact same way whenit comes to meetups as well.
If you're nervous, if you havesome hesitation, if you have
(12:44):
some reservation, just do it.
There's other people out therethat are going to be nervous,
but somebody's got to take thatfirst step.
Somebody's got to move theneedle forward.
Why not let it be?
You Look, it happened for Avery.
Avery did it.
Avery's like you know what.
I'm just going to go ahead andmake this happen, and he did.
He's making shit happen.
I'm proud of him for it.
So, brother, you can take thisin whatever direction you would
like, but tell me about some ofthe hardships, some of the
(13:07):
challenges.
Rather be on the lending side,rather be from diversification,
from syndication, going intorunning your own RV park,
because if you're lending juston single family, single family
is a whole different beast thanrunning an RV park park, let me
tell you.
So please talk to us about someof the hardships that you're
enduring yeah, I mean it's the.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
There's always a like it just takes, you know,
discipline to kind of keepgrowing.
Like I mean, listen someone ona podcast and you hear those
highlights and you know we're,do, we're doing all these great
things.
Like it just it sounds so faraway and so foreign.
But like the, the devil's inthe details, right.
Like by just doing thosedetails and consistency every
day.
Like things build up on eachother.
(13:49):
You know, in lending it's achallenge.
Like so I'm, I put some of myown capital on each loan, but
then I have majorities comingfrom investors, right, and so
I've had to call these investorsand make these relationships
and then I'm balancing that out.
So I've got to get out thereand find loans to do and I've
(14:10):
got to go out there and findinvestors for the money.
And it's a seesaw all the time.
It's a challenge to keep thatin balance.
It never works out perfectlyright.
Like at one point you mighthave more people asking for
money than you have the fund forat the time, and especially in
the first few years, that wasalways big.
(14:32):
Like I've always been kind ofgrowing hand to mouth right as
my demand for the loansincreases.
I'm right there trying to getthe investor capital to increase
as well.
And so there been times where,like I've told people and they
don't see this, it's all behindthe scenes to me sweating but
I'm like, yeah, I'll do thisloan but I'm not like 100 sure
(14:52):
where that money is coming fromat the time.
So I'm like I'm I'm calling allthese because I have making it
happen, pooling funds together,moving things around, and you
know, thank God, like I've beenable to make them happen, like I
haven't had to turn people awayfor that, but it's, it's a,
it's a grind, for sure.
It's just going out there andbelieving, you know, I just I
(15:14):
always have, maybe, this naivebelief like, oh, I'll find the
money, I'll find the way to doit, and you know, you know when
to say no too.
But um, but it's a good deal,like I, I make these connections
and make it happen and it comestogether.
But it's not without somesleepless, sleepless times of
some nail biting, for sure.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
That's awesome, but I think it's cool for people to
hear that because I didn'trealize until relatively
recently, um, in like the hardmoney space, that a lot of it
wasn't those guys' capital it's.
You know, I always thought itwas a bank that was kind of
doing the role and that somebodyjust had limited money that was
involved and that's how it went.
And that's not the case.
Usually it's somebody, like yousaid, like yourself, that is
basically brokering the loansand bringing in people and
(15:55):
that's not probably the properterm but, you know, making it
all happen.
So it's awesome.
I think it's important forpeople to understand that I like
talking about the lending stuffbecause I feel like there's so
much misconception around it.
So if you're looking at it andyou're looking at a borrower, if
somebody comes up to you andsays, hey, I want to do a deal,
what are, like, the mostimportant things you look for?
And maybe part two to that whatare some like red flags that
(16:18):
you would say, hey, don't eversay this to me or I watch out
for this yeah, you know, I in inin the investing world, like as
the as the active investor, theperson borrowing the money.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Like oftentimes we're high leverage right, like you
hear.
Like I want 100 financing andall those things.
But like true hard moneylearners, like that's really
rare to find, you might find aprivate, you know relationship
with the one-off high net worthindividual that will fund those
deals for you at a high leverageamount.
But like guys like myself whoare doing this day after day,
(16:55):
like you know the reason we'redoing hard money is because, um,
we're protected by collateraland so that's a big thing for me
is like you know what can youbring to the table.
And then, like experience toand communication.
So my, like I love I want theseto be win, win right.
Like when I look at a deal,like I only want to do the deal,
(17:17):
like if I think this is gonnamake you money, like so I
analyze, hey, if I was going toflip this house, all right,
here's, here's how much youthink your rehab budget is.
I run comps and this is whatthe house should be worth, so I
think you'll have a profit of,you know, 30 grand, 40 grand
when it's done.
Great, yeah, let's do this deal.
(17:38):
Give me, you know, 15, 20% down, whatever it is based on, kind
of what we've done, and thenit's a go and then we can make
it pretty easy.
But like, sometimes you come toit and I look at this deal and
I'm just like I'm not seeingthese comps.
Like you know, it's just thishouse has to sell for this but
nothing else has sold for it.
(17:58):
And those are likeconversations I think are
important to have and be like,hey, I don't, I don't see really
a margin here for you.
Like you know, help me, if I'mmissing something, let's talk
through this.
But like I don't want to dodeals that I think are going to
end up getting them in a badspot as well.
Oh, I think you know, knowingcoming to me and kind of and
(18:19):
having obviously a skin in thegame, you know, be able to put
some money down, kind of knowingyour numbers, what your exit
strategy is, exactly what yourrehab budget is I feel I'm
pretty good about what thatafter repair value is is great.
(18:40):
And then you know that firstloan is always a good test of a
relationship.
Once we can through that, Ilove repeat borrowers that, hey,
I know they're gonna keep me inthe loop if something starts
going south.
It's like don't don't go hideyour head in the sand, just keep
me in the loop and let's talkand see if how we can work
through this.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
Nate, I can't hear you.
We might be lagging.
Oh no, we went silent.
All right, while Nate figuresthat out, I'll ask you a
follow-up question.
Nate, keep trying to figurethat out.
Do you guys have, like, aspecific market that you focus
on or specific markets that yourlenders focus on?
(19:25):
And if so, well, I guess let mestart with that.
Is that the case?
Yeah, If we have a specificmarket was that your question,
yeah, or is it like nationwide?
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Yeah, no, for me it's really primarily Idaho, just
because I know, I know themarket and I have access to most
of the MLS here because I'm alicensed realtor so I can run my
own comps and kind of have afeel for it.
I'll lend in some neighboringStates that are close by, like
I've done some in WesternWyoming and things, but
(20:02):
definitely focuses on on Idaho,ok, I know, I'm sorry, I was
just going to say withoutpivoting.
I know you kind of talked aboutsome red flags.
When a borrower calls I thinkthere's a few, you know there's
not many I would say that justlike, oh, these are consistent
(20:23):
red flags.
But you know I have people likeI've had a guy once like call
for own and you know just measking for some information to
kind of understand what he wasdoing, like he kind of he wasn't
too happy that I was just likehey, this is just a deal, like
(20:43):
you just should be a privilegedto lend me this money.
Most people are like the mostwhen they're asking for money.
That's when they're willing tojump through the hoops and do
the best, and it's once theyhave the money and things go
south.
Then they're harder to deal with.
So if it's already a littlehard to deal with before I've
given you money, that's kind ofa red flag to me, like, ok, what
problems are going to havelater if me just asking some
(21:05):
questions about the project andyour budget and this, and that
just seems like a burden to you.
So you know, I think realizing,realizing like this is there,
this is a working relationshipand and taking that stewardship?
Hey, if I'm wearing two hundredfour hundred five hundred
(21:27):
thousand dollars, like that's abig and and taking that
stewardship.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
If, hey, if I'm borrowing 200, 400, 500, 000,
like that's a big responsibilityand and taking that serious.
Oh, you're not back yet, shoot,all right, nate, just keep
trying to jump in and eventuallywe'll find you here.
Um, all right sounds so.
Do you have a favorite betweendoing lending I'm assuming it's
lending, but doing lending doingthe mobile home parks?
Is there anything else that youwant to get into?
Or do you kind of just want tobuckle down, keep growing your
(21:50):
business as it sits?
What does kind of like thefuture look like?
Speaker 4 (21:57):
Yeah, you know I I love the lending space, I think
you know it's it's it's a very abusiness where you can
obviously involves leverage, butit's a high leverage business
as well.
Um, and I can really scale andI I like that.
You know, long term, looking onthe road, like I want to be the
, the passive guy right likewhere I'm not actively out there
(22:19):
underwriting loans andconstantly raising capital and
doing these things.
I think when I get to a point,you know my goal isn't to have
this the biggest business in theworld or be the biggest lender
in the nation.
You know is to have financialfreedom where we can, my family
and I can pursue what interestsus and the passion projects or
(22:40):
whatever else it is that we wantto do.
So I think for the, for a good,you know, for the near future,
you know five plus years in thefuture still be doing the
lending, focusing on that.
But I am wanting to take someopportunities to kind of grow
this passive side too.
I just recently put a littlebit of money in another
syndication and you know I lovethe mobile home park, like, once
(23:04):
it's up and going like it'sit's really just consistent
mailbox money the RV parks.
Quite a bit of work right now,but I think once we get the
systems in place too, hopefullyit turns into the same thing.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Let me try this again .
Can you guys hear me now?
Yes, you're back I'm back, holycow, okay.
So sidebar rookie mistake, Ileft my official mic at home in
my other office, so I'm like letme go ahead and use this
generic mic set and it just likecompletely died on me, even
though it's plugged in via usb.
It's fine, I apologize, guys.
(23:39):
I'm back now, so let me back.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
No worries.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Thank you.
Let me take this back.
So we talked about, like thelending side.
So if somebody was interestedin coming in and they had like a
home and what yourqualifications were, but what if
you and me met and I didn'tknow much about real estate and
I had my own money and I wantedto become a lender, what advice
could you give to somebody thatwants to do it?
And or, what's more important,to be able to, why would I do it
(24:07):
myself versus work with you?
Or?
Speaker 4 (24:08):
would you recommend?
Speaker 2 (24:09):
me work with you to be able to get my feet wet.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Fill me in on that.
Yeah, you know the the veryfirst time I did it I actually
went with this guy, matt Strongthat presented, and you know I
called him up after the REIA andsaid guy matt strong that
presented, and you know I calledhim up after the rea and said
hey, I really enjoyed yourpresentation.
I've got a question for you,like I know I would.
I kind of want to do whatyou're doing and I understand I
would be competing against youin a way up here, but I was
(24:32):
wondering if you'd be willing tokind of open the curtains and
help me understand and andthat's.
You know, just stand up, guy.
And he was super willing to dothat and talk me through things.
And and he opened the door andjust said why don't you invest
with me on one?
You can see what that lookslike and then see if you want to
keep doing it.
And so I, I invested in a loanwith him and you know that's
(24:52):
that's really, I think for a lotof people that's going to be
the a couple hundred thousanddollars to lend out.
You know it's going to take thetime to make sure that you find
those borrowers and and thatyou can keep that money
(25:14):
constantly.
Well, by myself I'm I'vecreated that, um, this business
where I have the loans coming in, where I can keep that money
working consistently and things.
But that's not to say, if it'ssomething you're interested in,
that you shouldn't pursue it.
So I would say, um, you know,get out there and and just get
your feet wet, find a, tellpeople you have money, go to a
(25:36):
meetup or something and say, hey, I'm looking to lend some dill
and you'll be a popular personin that room, I think.
And and get your feet wet, makesure you're, you got you got
some down, a down payment, theyhave skin in the game and you
got your paperwork right andthat you have a first lane
position.
And you know, here in idaho wework with title companies.
I know some states haveattorneys, whatever it is,
(25:58):
making sure that you're in thefirst lane and that your values
there in the property and justget the paperwork in way and
give it a shot.
But you know we're investingwith someone like myself is a
great way to get started andthen see if it's something you
know, if that's what you wantedto pursue.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Now is this something that could like potentially
turn into like a fund, of fundmodels, to where you can have,
like, investors come in and youjust pull all the stuff together
and then you're sort of justsitting on this money, naturally
offering a return, but thenjust being able to branch out
and diversify amongst whateverassets you want to rather be
single family or whatever, whathave you and then growers.
(26:36):
I never knew that you thoughtabout going down, or let me know
about that.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
Yeah, you know, I think there's a lot of
opportunity in the fund space.
I could, I could turn this intoa strictly a debt fund and just
kind of grow that way.
And there's some pros and consto doing it that way versus kind
of the joint venture, kind ofpartnership way I've been
structuring it.
And then you know it isinteresting, after this last
(27:03):
time talking about this RV parkwe bought, I have had some
investors that have investedwith me on the lending side ask
about the RV park andopportunities there.
So yeah, I'm not sure where thefuture will go, but you know, I
think, as we think big andwhere things can grow, there's
definitely opportunity where youknow we can start raising some
(27:24):
capital and doing a fund orsyndication for some RV parks or
this or that.
But you know, right now I'mgoing to put most of my eggs in
the lending basket and focus onthat and try to systemize other
investments and then, asopportunities come up on there,
we'll see where that takes us.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
I love that.
I'm curious what are the prosand cons doing a debt fund
versus the joint venture?
Just because you said that, nowI'm very curious any means.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
But once you have those funds in place, you have a
lot more latitude to control.
Let's say, I have a $10 millionfund and I've got that fully
funded and I know I have $10million.
I know what I'm working with soI know how much funds I have at
(28:25):
a time.
While in my space I talk toinvestors, I know how much they
want to invest or have investedcurrently and how much they
might have on the sidelines.
But it's not like it's sittingin my bank account and I just
have control that send it out.
I find the deal.
I kind of have them on thesideline and I'm and I'm
actively playing that matchmakergame.
So there's a little more stressthat goes into that.
But then also on the fund model, you kind of have that stress
(28:48):
of if I've taken on $10 millionand it's in this fund account,
you know I've got to keep thatdeployed and make sure that's
going out there as well.
And because I've told themthey're going to get whatever
return.
However that fund's set up, youknow is that 10% annualized or
you know there's many ways tostructure it.
But and this has worked well forwhat I'm doing I I think one of
(29:11):
the biggest pros to to the wayI'm doing it is on the raising
capital side.
Um, because, looking back, likewhen I first started, like you
know, my friend and I would callup some guys we know that might
have some money and we'reexplaining to them what we're
doing.
I can show them like hey,there's this property in Idaho
you know they lived in Idaho.
(29:32):
They're putting this much moneydown.
This is the borrower.
And then I here's the deed oftrust and all the loan documents
.
They can see my money issecured by this property.
Well, oftentimes on a fundthere's different funds as well.
It's kind of blind.
You don't necessarily knowexactly what you're going into
and that.
So it can be a little morechallenging, I think, to raise
(29:52):
money in the starting phase thatway.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
I love that, super helpful.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Thousand percent, and I think you might be Cole.
You think he's ready?
Speaker 3 (30:03):
I think he's ready.
I agree, avery, we got asurprise for you.
Avery we got a surprise for youall right so, avery, we're going
to ask you these six questionswe ask them to every single
guest and, uh, we're going tosee what you say and you can
answer at length.
You can answer succinctly,really whatever you want to do,
(30:23):
but we're going to do our bestto not respond to you and just
keep rolling, and usually wedon't do that, we, we fail.
But we'll see what happens.
I'm ready.
First question what separatestop performing entrepreneurs
from the rest of the crowd?
Speaker 4 (30:41):
Grit, you know, just being able to stick in there
when the when it's not all roses.
You know, in the tough times,when you feel like giving up and
you don't feel like doing it,it's just the grit to keep
moving forward.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
What's a daily habit that's contributed to your
success?
Speaker 4 (31:02):
You know, for me, I think you know it's it's prayer,
to be honest, I think, dailyprayer.
And for those, no matter whatyour religion is, I think,
meditation, taking time to bestill and think and you know, if
you are religious, whateverthat takes, I think that centers
(31:22):
ourselves and helps us focus onwhat matters most and get ready
for the day and the next week.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
What is a piece of advice that you'd give to
yourself if you're startingagain?
Speaker 4 (31:39):
I would say don't be afraid.
You know, I think some fear isgood.
Like you know, I talked to alot of other entrepreneurs and
there's like, oh I, always,every time I sign the contract
on that new property, there'salways a little nervousness and
fear.
But it's like learning to dealwith that and overcome it.
Not let the fear rule you.
(32:00):
I guess, use it to make sureyou're making a wise decision.
But but jump in, like when Iquit my job, like I, I had
thought about it like a yearbefore and the timing wasn't
quite right.
And when I finally decided todo it, like I had been talking
to my wife about it, I told herhey, I'm going to do this to you
know, tomorrow.
And she's like, ah, no, you'renot, I'm going to do it.
(32:24):
Like we're going to make ithappen.
And like that whole morning I'mlike pretty nervous to go talk
to my boss and like pull theplug off from the paycheck,
right, and I, I set the time andI did it.
And now, like, looking back,you know, I have no regrets and
and and I'm not looking back atall.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Dude.
Hats off to you, Anybody that'slistening.
I'm notorious for this.
Pause, this rewind.
Play this whole thing all theway back.
So many nuggets have just beendropped.
This is amazing.
What is your favorite businessbook?
Speaker 4 (33:01):
Yeah, that's a great question.
You know, right now I'm in theSeven Habits of Highly Effective
People and I had picked thatone up years ago and and like
oftentimes got partway throughand then put it back on the
shelf.
But like right now, it's reallyhitting home.
I think it's a great book thattalks about a lot of the great
attributes to be an effectiveperson in this and in life.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
What is your favorite part of owning your business?
Speaker 4 (33:34):
What is your favorite part of owning your business?
I think it's the freedom andthe control right Like the
freedom to control my schedule,the freedom to control it, to
influence how much.
You know what my income is Like.
I'm not set by the salary and abonus structure.
It's you know.
Know, if I put the time andefforts in, I see the fruits of
those, my labor.
So I think, having having thatcontrol and obviously the stress
(33:58):
, responsibility that comes fromit, but the work I do, I add to
that too, like I love oh sorry,I paused there for a second,
but I, you know, I love to justthe freedom, like you know, with
my family, like obviously, likethere's probably times I work
(34:20):
more than I had a w2 job.
But I also like, when I want totake off and you know this, we
just got back from a trip toutah this weekend.
We might drive out to, you know, some family across the country
later this summer it's like thefreedom just to pick it up and
do it and like and manage yourwork schedule.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
I love it.
What is something new thatyou've implemented in your
business that's helped driveyour success?
Speaker 4 (35:00):
I I recently kind of hired the first um kind of
part-time employee contractorand you know that's.
You know that book I read that10x is better than 2x or easier
than 2x, something along thoselines.
Like you know it has it's.
It is like it's has lots ofgreat insight and like it's hard
to commit to wanting to paysomeone or grow to this next
level but by taking things offmy plate and giving it to
(35:22):
someone else.
Lets me focus on, you know,those income producing items
that I can do best awesome averythis has been fun.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
It's cool just dialing all the way back and
hearing income producing itemsthat I can do best.
Awesome, avery, this has beenfun.
It's cool just dialing all theway back and hearing your story.
So you started in theagriculture world at a cattle
ranch.
You started listening to allthe notorious stuff the Ramsey,
the Bigger Pockets, all thatstuff and kind of getting that
itch.
And then going into theagriculture lending and doing
the farm and the loans andthings, and then headed to the
(35:50):
meetups, the REI meetings, andthen becoming your own hard
money lender and then justgrowing that and now you're
full-time self-employed.
You just hired somebody andthings are growing and it's
super cool to hear that, not tomention the other investments,
the mobile home parks, et cetera.
So I have two final questionsfor you.
One, any final advice?
And two, where can people findout more about you or just find
(36:14):
you?
Speaker 4 (36:18):
Yeah, I, you know.
I think any advice would belike just just take the next
step that's in front of you.
It's.
It's easy to see all these bigbusinesses.
Like you know, we've I've doneover like $18 million of loans
now.
It's easy to see all these bigbusinesses I've done over $18
million of loans now.
But when I first started thebusiness, my partner and I we
were like man, if we could getto a million dollars at a time,
(36:41):
that would be huge, right, andthat was just this big milestone
for us.
And we just took these smallsteps at a time.
And then, as we grow, we'relike you know what we can.
We can change this goal and dothis.
Like you know, the first thingis if you're working at your job
and like is maximizing that401k, maximizing what you can do
there, putting as much intothat as you can, and then
(37:01):
finding those next opportunities, so it's all gross.
So just take that opportunitythat's in front of you.
Take that first step.
What's your next step?
And sorry, remind me again ofthe second part of that question
when can people find you?
Yes, I'm on social media.
You can find me on LinkedIn.
That's a good place to connectwith me.
(37:22):
You can find on Facebook.
My business is a page there,j&r Capital.
But yeah, linkedin, averyRobertson, would be a place to
connect.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Avery, this has been amazing.
Brother, Thank you so much forcoming down to Forest and Fire.
Our house is your house.
You are welcome at any point.
For those that are out therelistening, make sure that you
pause, stop, rewind, play thisall the way back.
So many golden nuggets havebeen dropped and one of the
biggest takeaways and I hopethat you pause, stop, rewind,
play this all the way back.
So many golden nuggets havebeen dropped.
And one of the biggesttakeaways and I hope that you
guys are resonating strong withyou is continue to move the
needle forward.
(37:56):
Avery set huge, big, audacious,hairy goals of just being able
to hit a million, and now he'sat 18 million.
I don't know how much he'slending out and he did that by
setting those milestones andthen continuing to move the
needle forward every day, thathe would get up.
Even when he was stuck in theface of adversity, he would find
a way to plow through it, and Iknow that you guys can do that
as well.
So again, avery, thank you somuch for coming through.
(38:17):
Man, this has been an honor, apleasure and a privilege.
It's truly ours.
For those that are listening,if you are driving and this is
your daily commute- get, but wewill see you all next time on
Forged in Fire.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Take care everybody.
Thanks for tuning in to anotherepisode of Forged in Fire.
If you enjoyed today's raw,unfiltered stories, don't forget
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