July 6, 2023 • 24 mins
What if the messy parts of your midlife relationships are the key to understanding yourself better and improving your overall happiness? Together, we'll explore how these connections, as complicated as they may seem, are crucial for our health, happiness and longevity.
We'll be decoding how our attachment styles, crafted by our primary caregivers, influence our relationship dynamics and why understanding them in midlife is more important than ever. We'll also dive into the tricky territory of reacting to our partners' pain and creating a secure relationship amidst the chaos of our own issues and resentments.
Buckle up for an unfiltered conversation that'll challenge your notion that relationships are a matter of luck, and instead, enlighten you on the transformative power of understanding your role in them. Prepare for some serious midlife relationship real talk!
Book Referenced: In Each Others Care
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
When my grandmother was in her 80s and 90s, she had
a boyfriend named Jerry And theywere a very cute couple, but
Jerry used to call mygrandmother his PETA, and it was
P-I-T-A, and PETA stood forPain in the Ass And of course,
this term was used veryendearingly and actually
everybody, including mygrandmother, smiled and laughed
(00:21):
about it.
But the truth is is he wasn'twrong.
We are all a huge pain in theass in some way And we bring
that pain in the assness to ourrelationships that we have in
our life.
This is the 40 as fuck podcast,where we have worthwhile, real
as fuck conversations aboutmidlife.
(00:42):
What you're going to hear onthis podcast is not the fluff
you see scrolling Instagram,it's the messy parts of midlife,
because midlife feels a littledifferent.
I wouldn't say midlife isnecessarily a crisis, but it's
worth paying attention to.
Hey guys, welcome back to the40 as fuck podcast.
(01:05):
I am Sid Moro and on thispodcast we have real as fuck
conversations about the shitthat is midlife.
No fluff, no filter.
Today we're going to be talkingall about relationships And if
you are like me, you havelearned one thing to this point,
and that is that other peoplecan be very difficult and
(01:27):
seriously spending a lot of timewith anyone, but especially our
partners, if we're in arelationship.
It is definitely not a fairytale, and if you are actually
still living in that fantasy,you are probably not actually
listening to this podcast,because I think that we all just
need to be honest and stoptrying to be some Instagram
(01:49):
perfect version of ourrelationships.
I think when we do that, we canall admit that relationships,
no matter how good or how badthey are, they do kind of have a
way of making you just a littlebit jaded, because there is
nothing easy or perfect aboutrelationships, especially if
you've been in one from anylength of time.
(02:10):
And this is all really ironicbecause, if you guys remember, a
few episodes ago I talked abouthow having the wrong
relationships in our life andthis is according to research
can actually be bad for yourhealth.
It can actually lead to anearly death, and it's the
relationships that we have nowin our midlife that is one of
(02:33):
the greatest determinants of ouroverall happiness and our
health and our longevity andreally our outlook as we age in
our life.
In all the research that I havedone, i have actually really
started to question, though howis it that you define this
quality relationship as theyrefer to?
(02:53):
I am wondering, like how do youknow if you have one and what
do you do if you don't?
Does that mean that you'redoomed, or can you salvage a
current relationship?
And another question that I'vealso wondered is if you don't
have one, are you better offsingle?
These are all questions that Ihave been asking myself as I've
gone through this research, butI think that it all starts under
(03:17):
this premise that we all wantlove at least most of us do And
we want to be loved.
We want to feel accepted bysomeone, and as human beings, we
know that we fundamentally needconnection, and the research
across the board backs this up.
In an analysis of 148 studies,researchers found that your
(03:40):
chance of survival, regardlessof your age and your sex, or
even your health status, itincreased by 50%.
Not having strong connectionsin your life, as in
relationships, is at least asdetrimental to our health as
obesity and physical inactivityand smoking 15 cigarettes a day.
(04:04):
That's huge.
That is our draw torelationships.
It seems like at our core ashuman beings.
It is dependent on our survivalthat we need connection, but if
you have ever had arelationship that has gone south
.
You probably have askedyourself like how did this fairy
(04:27):
tale, something you thought wasreally good, become this damn
nightmare that I'm living in?
And statistically you're notwrong 30% of married couples
report feeling severelydisconnected in the
relationships that they have,and 43% of adults report feeling
intense loneliness.
And I wanna just say that,before you start thinking that
(04:49):
having a life of singlehood isprobably the best way to avoid
all of these pitfall, i wannajust tell you that in an
analysis of 90 studies and 500million people I'm serious, 500
million people they found therisk of death for single men 32%
higher And for women it was 23%higher.
(05:11):
That translates to dying 15 to17 years earlier than married
people.
That is really significant.
So you can see that theresearch shows us that
relationships have an amazinginfluence on our overall
happiness in life, but they canalso very much negatively
(05:32):
influence our life as wellBecause, as we know, they can't
just be any relationship.
They have to be that quoteunquote quality.
And I wanna start and I wannabe really upfront with you guys,
because I don't wanna come onthis podcast and pretend that I
am an expert on qualityrelationships.
I wanna be really clear that Iam not a therapist.
(05:53):
It's only in the last few yearsthat I have actually started to
look at myself very seriouslyand looked at the roles that I
have played in the relationshipsthat I've had.
I think we can all agree thatwe've been taught through
various influences that we allcame to this premise that the
people that we were attracted toor that we had relationships
(06:14):
with it was some kind of likethis luck of the draw, like you
met the right person at theright time and it was all meant
to be And it was this love atfirst sight thing that we see in
movies.
But what I've actually learnedis it's more about our own
psychology and our own pastexperiences, really from our
childhood.
That is really the drivingforce into who you connect with.
(06:35):
It's also a major influence inthe problems and patterns that
you will experience in therelationships that you have and
also the way that your needs aremet in the relationship.
But what I've learned and apositive sense of this is that
we can also heal a lot of thisstuff through our relationships.
I think it's really possible,and maybe even more significant,
(06:58):
that we can heal through therelationships that we have that
go south, and it's thoserelationships of our past where
I think the most is revealedabout our own psychology,
because relationships can be oneof the greatest teachers of
what is going on inside of us.
It's not always external.
(07:19):
One of the most amazing thingsthat has happened since I
started this podcast is that alot of people have come to me
and reached out and shared theirown experiences related to the
content that I have published.
So I have had this incredibleopportunity to talk a lot about
relationships, because it'soften a topic And from my own
(07:40):
research, it seems that feelingconnected in our relationships
is actually a very big issue inour midlife.
For this episode, i actuallyasked a couple of my friends who
I thought they looked from theoutside like they had that quote
unquote quality relationship.
But what was so surprising tome is when I asked them about
their quality relationships, iwas met with answers and they
(08:02):
were like Sid, no, i do not havea quality relationship.
And some of them even sharedwith me that their relationships
were barely hanging on by athread.
Some of these people that Iasked had hope and some didn't
have any hope at all When Iasked them if they felt like
their needs were getting met intheir relationships.
Most of them said no, and thatactually really surprised me.
(08:25):
I think part of the problem thatwe face is that very few of us,
including myself, actually knowor understand what a quality
relationship looks or feels like.
And I think that this isespecially true if you come from
some dysfunction in your family, like I do, because, let's face
it, we weren't exactly modeledquality relationships growing up
(08:46):
, especially growing up as GenXers.
I think not having that strongfoundation of what a quality
relationship is prevents us fromcultivating that in our own
relationships.
Largely the people that I talkto, they feel really frustrated
in their relationships.
Either it's communicating orthe workload that one of them is
(09:08):
carrying or getting their needsmet or trying to get their
needs met or even meeting theirpartner's needs.
It seems to be a hugefrustration.
So I want to start and I want todefine first for context that
in this podcast today I'mspeaking mostly into our adult
and adult relationships, but itdoes seem like the patterns that
we have in one of ourrelationships are the patterns
(09:31):
that we have in manyrelationships.
When I look at my own life,there is a pretty strong overlap
.
It's not 100%, but I do thinkthat we tend to gravitate or
we're pulled towards sameness inour attachment or what our
relationships look like withothers, and this is really the
basis for attachment theory.
We touched on this in aprevious episode, so I'm not
(09:54):
going to go into it too deeply.
But the Cliffsnose version isthat there's three different
types of attachment style.
There's anxious, avoidant andinsecure, and then there's some
subcategories in there too, butthey're not exactly relevant to
what we're talking about today.
So I just want to do a reallyquick refresher, especially if
you didn't listen to thatprevious episode.
But if you are anxious, like Iam, you probably tend to be more
(10:17):
codependent.
You probably have a tendencytowards feeling abandoned in
relationships and you mightactually abandon yourself for
others' needs in yourrelationships.
You can also have a really hardtime saying no or setting
boundaries.
You guys get the picture ofwhat I'm talking about So like
for me, for instance, i have atendency to move towards people,
even people that are pushing meaway, but I'm doing that in a
(10:39):
way to feel safe and connectedto them.
If you're avoidant, youprobably move away, especially
from emotional closeness inrelationships.
It's not that you don't want it, it's that emotions begin to
feel really overwhelming to you,so you push away, so you might
withdraw or suppress youremotions And in that you want to
(10:59):
be alone for your safety.
This is your attempt to satisfyyour needs for safety.
A secure attachment style isjust that You feel okay in
relationships or you feel okayout of relationships.
You have easier time settingboundaries, you are able to be
emotionally present with othersand yourself.
Basically, you guys are likethe golden children, but the
(11:20):
characteristics that I just gaveyou they're all generalities
and we're all gonna be on thespectrum of all of those in
various parts of ourrelationships, because there are
so many nuances in how weconnect with others that were
largely influenced in ourchildhood.
But they are what make us feelseen and safe and secure and
(11:42):
loved in the relationships thatwe have.
Now, like I mentioned, nomatter where you fall on that
attachment style, what we haveto realize is in the background
of our minds we have this tapethat is playing and that is this
attachment style, because ourattachment styles were formed by
the way that our caregiversresponded to our needs when we
(12:04):
were little babies And it'sinformed us how we experienced
the relationships in our life,our attachments to others is
really the driving force in howour partner is connecting to us
and how they satisfy those needsfor us in feeling seen and safe
and secure and really loved inour relationship.
(12:26):
So you guys can really see thatwe kind of have this weird
conflict between wanting loveand connection and our
attachment style which serveslike as this referee.
But what's crazy about it is weleave it to our partners to
understand when we ourselvesdon't even really understand.
(12:47):
Only the referee does, only ourattachment style does, and when
that ref is like it's a miss,we start telling ourselves the
story about the experience Whenmy grandmother was in her 80s
and 90s, after her husband hadpassed away, she had a boyfriend
named Jerry And they were avery cute couple.
(13:08):
But Jerry used to call mygrandmother his PETA, and it was
P-I-T-A and PETA stood for painin the ass And of course this
term was used very endearinglyand actually everybody,
including my grandmother, smiledand laughed about it.
But the truth is is he wasn'twrong.
We are all a huge pain in theass in some way And we bring
(13:29):
that pain in the assness to ourrelationships that we have in
our life.
Our pain in the assness isn'tnecessarily our attachment style
.
It's more the way that werespond which is actually based
on our attachment style, whetherwe shut down or we get
defensive or we're needy or wepush away.
And I wanna be really clearlike your, pain in the assness
(13:51):
isn't necessarily wrong, but incertain relationships it can be
really challenging for the otherperson.
They're not operating from thesame place, they have their own
attachment styles And in thatcommunication neither one of us
feel very understood.
And as we go throughrelationships, i think what
happens is we start to carrysome shame for our needs or
(14:13):
attachment styles or even theway that we respond in the
relationship, and our partners,I think, end up feeling really
defeated and resentful and theyget defensive because they don't
understand what it is thattheir partner needs.
So having this awareness, notonly about your attachment style
but the way in which yourespond when you don't feel
(14:35):
secure, is crucial.
Equally, it's so important foryour partner to understand this
whole concept as well.
I think it can actually bepretty transformative in your
life.
An attachment theory says thatthe people that we find
ourselves attracted to inrelationships it likely reminds
us of one of our primarycaregivers, and so if, for
(14:57):
instance, you were raised byemotionally unavailable, anxious
people, but they were alsoloving and charismatic to other
people, it's likely that you'regoing to seek partners with
similar traits.
When we have this realizationabout ourselves, i think that is
the point that we can reallystart to take some ownership and
we can grow.
And it's through that awarenessthat will allow us to make
(15:20):
different choices in how werespond as well as how we
communicate to our partners.
And the issue becomes when wedon't know how to express what
it is and our partner startsthrowing shit at the wall to see
what sticks and it feels likethey continually seem to miss
the mark and everybody feelsfrustrated and everybody feels
(15:40):
defeated.
Our partner's attempts atmaking us feel happy starts
feeling like they're just goingthrough the motions and their
attempts can actually make usfeel more disconnected because
to us it feels that they don'tactually understand.
And I think of it in the termsof an iceberg.
So if you think about it, atthe very tip of the iceberg you
(16:02):
have this very action-orientedspace.
Your partner attempts to makeyou happy And we have to believe
that our partners actually dowant to make us happy, but at
the very tip of this iceberg.
They're like hey look, i putthe dishes in the dishwasher for
you or I made date night justfor you.
Their intent is good But, asanyone knows, action doesn't
(16:23):
always equate to connection, andI think that's what's missing
in that action-oriented space.
And so, in my research andtalking to a lot of other people
about their own experiences,the connection is what the
partner is actually craving,because it's not about the
dishes, it's not about thescheduled date.
These are actions, they'remechanisms, but as partners we
(16:47):
need to discover what thatdeeper wanting is.
When we know what makes ourpartners feel secure, what story
or what does that tap into fromyour early childhood Because,
remember, all of this is writtenin our early childhood from our
caregivers We begin to connectdifferently to each other.
For instance, date night isnice, but what could it be that
(17:12):
date night really means?
Is it feeling like a sense ofimportance and priority to your
partner, because they didn'tfeel like that with their
relationship with theircaregivers?
When we have this understanding, we see that date night is one
mechanism, but greaterconnection comes through the
moments in our days where we canmake our partner a priority.
(17:34):
That's what's going to makethem actually feel secure
because they were missing thatwhen they were kids.
It's like a wound, which isactually exactly how Dr Stan
Tattkin, an expert on attachmenttheory, explains it.
He says that we have a bitethat fits each other's wounds,
which, in essence, acts asmagnets.
(17:56):
These wounds were created whenwe were little babies.
What we essentially want isother people that we have in our
adult life to heal these wounds.
We seek them out.
Our adult relationships arethere to solve the issues of the
past.
The people in our adultrelationships.
They didn't have anything to dowith those wounds.
(18:17):
We're just bringing them intoour life to help us solve those
old experiences.
When they don't respond to usin the way that we need them to,
we react, and we respond tothem in many ways the same way
we did when we were children.
So we may withdraw or we mayget clingy or we may get needy.
Whatever your default was as akid, it's likely you're still
(18:41):
responding in a similar way.
Dr Stan Tattkin says that theunderlying principle in a
quality relationship isunderstanding each other's early
wounds and responding in a waythat makes them feel secure in
the relationship.
So if you've ever heardsomebody say that they don't
feel seen, i believe it's thisdeep understanding of another
(19:02):
person.
I think that is actually whatpeople mean when they say they
don't feel seen or known.
And to understand this and tobe able to go that deep in a way
, we've got to see them as thatchild that's needing to feel
secure.
So we're going to have toreally work to go beyond our own
need.
It's this understanding that isespecially important.
(19:23):
And again, dr Stan Takin saysthat secure, functioning couples
orientate themselves to be ineach other's care, which I think
is just the most beautiful wayto say that.
And because relationships arenot only just the way that we
feel secure, but they also arelike a mirror and they inform us
(19:43):
and tell us if we are worthy ofgetting our needs met.
So when, for example, when ourpartner doesn't understand that
need of wanting to be a prioritybecause we weren't a priority
in our childhood, we will likelytell ourselves a story about
why we're not actually worthy,and our partner's inability to
(20:05):
understand what we need to healfrom this will actually affirm
this narrative that we've toldourselves for many years that
we're not worthy.
And when those needs are notmet, it continues to feed that
experience and that story, andthis alone is why forming secure
relationships is so important,because the quality of the
relationships that we have inour life.
(20:26):
They affect our health and ourhappiness, but they also affect
our self-esteem and theinfluence our self-confidence.
It is fundamental to oursurvival as humans to feel safe
in this world with the peoplethat we are closest to.
Dr Sam Tatkin has a great way ofillustrating how we respond to
(20:49):
our partners.
So in the book he lays out twoexamples, but I think that they
pointed out perfectly.
He says consider the followingscenario I step hard on your toe
in a room full of people.
Now consider the things I couldsay to you immediately after.
Number one I didn't see yourfoot.
Number two it wasn't my fault,somebody pushed me.
(21:11):
Number three watch where you'regoing.
Number four your foot is justtoo big.
Number five oh no, i'm sorry,are you okay?
You can see how the differencewhen we respond to something
like that makes a hugedifference And you can probably
pick up either where you feelthat from your partner or even
how you respond to your ownpartner.
(21:32):
Now he gives one more scenariothat I think illustrates it
quite perfectly.
I tell you how sorry I am forleaving this morning without
saying goodbye to you.
I admit that it was rude and itwas inconsiderate, despite the
reason for doing so.
Your response options might benumber one why did you do that?
Number two yes, it was rude andyou do it all the time.
(21:52):
Number three and you want me tobe loving to you, but you do
this.
Number four I'm angry for awhole lot of reasons and this is
just one.
Or number five thank you forsaying you're sorry.
So I think these are two greatillustrations of how we can
respond to our partner's pain ina stressful moment and largely
(22:14):
see them in the wound withoutbringing our own stuff into that
moment of recognizing pain.
But I want to be perfectlyhonest with you guys, because I
hate it when people are likejust do this and your
relationship will be perfect,because we got to be real.
This could be all well and good, but it is really hard to apply
because our path to bliss hasbecome probably a traffic jam
(22:38):
filled with resentment andunsolved issues and unfairness,
and it's just like those trafficjams, like those attempts.
We cannot move forward.
We've come to a complete stopbecause it's really tough to put
that stuff aside.
So I just want to say that Iknow that relationships are not
(22:58):
easy, and putting this intoaction is a lot easier said than
done, but I think, just evencoming at it from having the
awareness of this information,this has really helped me and I
really hope that in some way itcan help you too.
Knowing that my midliferelationships are foundational
to my overall happiness andhealth as I get older, it's
(23:20):
actually given me a differentmotivation to look at this stuff
.
So remember that each of thesestyles influences our response
and our relationships, and ourroles in our relationships are
really in defining a securerelationship to one another,
helping each other to truly feelseen and understood through
(23:40):
understanding our bite woundsand what our responses are to
them, because we really are ineach other's care, and I don't
think that this idea should betaken lightly.
So with that, you guys, i hopeyou guys have enjoyed this.
I hope you guys have found thishelpful.
It has been extremelymind-opening for me to
understand what qualityrelationships are, and I hope it
(24:01):
is for you too.
I will talk to you guys nexttime, take care.
When my grandmother was in her 80s and 90s, she had
a boyfriend named Jerry And theywere a very cute couple, but
Jerry used to call mygrandmother his PETA, and it was
P-I-T-A, and PETA stood forPain in the Ass And of course,
this term was used veryendearingly and actually
everybody, including mygrandmother, smiled and laughed
(00:21):
about it.
But the truth is is he wasn'twrong.
We are all a huge pain in theass in some way And we bring
that pain in the assness to ourrelationships that we have in
our life.
This is the 40 as fuck podcast,where we have worthwhile, real
as fuck conversations aboutmidlife.
(00:42):
What you're going to hear onthis podcast is not the fluff
you see scrolling Instagram,it's the messy parts of midlife,
because midlife feels a littledifferent.
I wouldn't say midlife isnecessarily a crisis, but it's
worth paying attention to.
Hey guys, welcome back to the40 as fuck podcast.
(01:05):
I am Sid Moro and on thispodcast we have real as fuck
conversations about the shitthat is midlife.
No fluff, no filter.
Today we're going to be talkingall about relationships And if
you are like me, you havelearned one thing to this point,
and that is that other peoplecan be very difficult and
(01:27):
seriously spending a lot of timewith anyone, but especially our
partners, if we're in arelationship.
It is definitely not a fairytale, and if you are actually
still living in that fantasy,you are probably not actually
listening to this podcast,because I think that we all just
need to be honest and stoptrying to be some Instagram
(01:49):
perfect version of ourrelationships.
I think when we do that, we canall admit that relationships,
no matter how good or how badthey are, they do kind of have a
way of making you just a littlebit jaded, because there is
nothing easy or perfect aboutrelationships, especially if
you've been in one from anylength of time.
(02:10):
And this is all really ironicbecause, if you guys remember, a
few episodes ago I talked abouthow having the wrong
relationships in our life andthis is according to research
can actually be bad for yourhealth.
It can actually lead to anearly death, and it's the
relationships that we have nowin our midlife that is one of
(02:33):
the greatest determinants of ouroverall happiness and our
health and our longevity andreally our outlook as we age in
our life.
In all the research that I havedone, i have actually really
started to question, though howis it that you define this
quality relationship as theyrefer to?
(02:53):
I am wondering, like how do youknow if you have one and what
do you do if you don't?
Does that mean that you'redoomed, or can you salvage a
current relationship?
And another question that I'vealso wondered is if you don't
have one, are you better offsingle?
These are all questions that Ihave been asking myself as I've
gone through this research, butI think that it all starts under
(03:17):
this premise that we all wantlove at least most of us do And
we want to be loved.
We want to feel accepted bysomeone, and as human beings, we
know that we fundamentally needconnection, and the research
across the board backs this up.
In an analysis of 148 studies,researchers found that your
(03:40):
chance of survival, regardlessof your age and your sex, or
even your health status, itincreased by 50%.
Not having strong connectionsin your life, as in
relationships, is at least asdetrimental to our health as
obesity and physical inactivityand smoking 15 cigarettes a day.
(04:04):
That's huge.
That is our draw torelationships.
It seems like at our core ashuman beings.
It is dependent on our survivalthat we need connection, but if
you have ever had arelationship that has gone south
.
You probably have askedyourself like how did this fairy
(04:27):
tale, something you thought wasreally good, become this damn
nightmare that I'm living in?
And statistically you're notwrong 30% of married couples
report feeling severelydisconnected in the
relationships that they have,and 43% of adults report feeling
intense loneliness.
And I wanna just say that,before you start thinking that
(04:49):
having a life of singlehood isprobably the best way to avoid
all of these pitfall, i wannajust tell you that in an
analysis of 90 studies and 500million people I'm serious, 500
million people they found therisk of death for single men 32%
higher And for women it was 23%higher.
(05:11):
That translates to dying 15 to17 years earlier than married
people.
That is really significant.
So you can see that theresearch shows us that
relationships have an amazinginfluence on our overall
happiness in life, but they canalso very much negatively
(05:32):
influence our life as wellBecause, as we know, they can't
just be any relationship.
They have to be that quoteunquote quality.
And I wanna start and I wannabe really upfront with you guys,
because I don't wanna come onthis podcast and pretend that I
am an expert on qualityrelationships.
I wanna be really clear that Iam not a therapist.
(05:53):
It's only in the last few yearsthat I have actually started to
look at myself very seriouslyand looked at the roles that I
have played in the relationshipsthat I've had.
I think we can all agree thatwe've been taught through
various influences that we allcame to this premise that the
people that we were attracted toor that we had relationships
(06:14):
with it was some kind of likethis luck of the draw, like you
met the right person at theright time and it was all meant
to be And it was this love atfirst sight thing that we see in
movies.
But what I've actually learnedis it's more about our own
psychology and our own pastexperiences, really from our
childhood.
That is really the drivingforce into who you connect with.
(06:35):
It's also a major influence inthe problems and patterns that
you will experience in therelationships that you have and
also the way that your needs aremet in the relationship.
But what I've learned and apositive sense of this is that
we can also heal a lot of thisstuff through our relationships.
I think it's really possible,and maybe even more significant,
(06:58):
that we can heal through therelationships that we have that
go south, and it's thoserelationships of our past where
I think the most is revealedabout our own psychology,
because relationships can be oneof the greatest teachers of
what is going on inside of us.
It's not always external.
(07:19):
One of the most amazing thingsthat has happened since I
started this podcast is that alot of people have come to me
and reached out and shared theirown experiences related to the
content that I have published.
So I have had this incredibleopportunity to talk a lot about
relationships, because it'soften a topic And from my own
(07:40):
research, it seems that feelingconnected in our relationships
is actually a very big issue inour midlife.
For this episode, i actuallyasked a couple of my friends who
I thought they looked from theoutside like they had that quote
unquote quality relationship.
But what was so surprising tome is when I asked them about
their quality relationships, iwas met with answers and they
(08:02):
were like Sid, no, i do not havea quality relationship.
And some of them even sharedwith me that their relationships
were barely hanging on by athread.
Some of these people that Iasked had hope and some didn't
have any hope at all When Iasked them if they felt like
their needs were getting met intheir relationships.
Most of them said no, and thatactually really surprised me.
(08:25):
I think part of the problem thatwe face is that very few of us,
including myself, actually knowor understand what a quality
relationship looks or feels like.
And I think that this isespecially true if you come from
some dysfunction in your family, like I do, because, let's face
it, we weren't exactly modeledquality relationships growing up
(08:46):
, especially growing up as GenXers.
I think not having that strongfoundation of what a quality
relationship is prevents us fromcultivating that in our own
relationships.
Largely the people that I talkto, they feel really frustrated
in their relationships.
Either it's communicating orthe workload that one of them is
(09:08):
carrying or getting their needsmet or trying to get their
needs met or even meeting theirpartner's needs.
It seems to be a hugefrustration.
So I want to start and I want todefine first for context that
in this podcast today I'mspeaking mostly into our adult
and adult relationships, but itdoes seem like the patterns that
we have in one of ourrelationships are the patterns
(09:31):
that we have in manyrelationships.
When I look at my own life,there is a pretty strong overlap
.
It's not 100%, but I do thinkthat we tend to gravitate or
we're pulled towards sameness inour attachment or what our
relationships look like withothers, and this is really the
basis for attachment theory.
We touched on this in aprevious episode, so I'm not
(09:54):
going to go into it too deeply.
But the Cliffsnose version isthat there's three different
types of attachment style.
There's anxious, avoidant andinsecure, and then there's some
subcategories in there too, butthey're not exactly relevant to
what we're talking about today.
So I just want to do a reallyquick refresher, especially if
you didn't listen to thatprevious episode.
But if you are anxious, like Iam, you probably tend to be more
(10:17):
codependent.
You probably have a tendencytowards feeling abandoned in
relationships and you mightactually abandon yourself for
others' needs in yourrelationships.
You can also have a really hardtime saying no or setting
boundaries.
You guys get the picture ofwhat I'm talking about So like
for me, for instance, i have atendency to move towards people,
even people that are pushing meaway, but I'm doing that in a
(10:39):
way to feel safe and connectedto them.
If you're avoidant, youprobably move away, especially
from emotional closeness inrelationships.
It's not that you don't want it, it's that emotions begin to
feel really overwhelming to you,so you push away, so you might
withdraw or suppress youremotions And in that you want to
(10:59):
be alone for your safety.
This is your attempt to satisfyyour needs for safety.
A secure attachment style isjust that You feel okay in
relationships or you feel okayout of relationships.
You have easier time settingboundaries, you are able to be
emotionally present with othersand yourself.
Basically, you guys are likethe golden children, but the
(11:20):
characteristics that I just gaveyou they're all generalities
and we're all gonna be on thespectrum of all of those in
various parts of ourrelationships, because there are
so many nuances in how weconnect with others that were
largely influenced in ourchildhood.
But they are what make us feelseen and safe and secure and
(11:42):
loved in the relationships thatwe have.
Now, like I mentioned, nomatter where you fall on that
attachment style, what we haveto realize is in the background
of our minds we have this tapethat is playing and that is this
attachment style, because ourattachment styles were formed by
the way that our caregiversresponded to our needs when we
(12:04):
were little babies And it'sinformed us how we experienced
the relationships in our life,our attachments to others is
really the driving force in howour partner is connecting to us
and how they satisfy those needsfor us in feeling seen and safe
and secure and really loved inour relationship.
(12:26):
So you guys can really see thatwe kind of have this weird
conflict between wanting loveand connection and our
attachment style which serveslike as this referee.
But what's crazy about it is weleave it to our partners to
understand when we ourselvesdon't even really understand.
(12:47):
Only the referee does, only ourattachment style does, and when
that ref is like it's a miss,we start telling ourselves the
story about the experience Whenmy grandmother was in her 80s
and 90s, after her husband hadpassed away, she had a boyfriend
named Jerry And they were avery cute couple.
(13:08):
But Jerry used to call mygrandmother his PETA, and it was
P-I-T-A and PETA stood for painin the ass And of course this
term was used very endearinglyand actually everybody,
including my grandmother, smiledand laughed about it.
But the truth is is he wasn'twrong.
We are all a huge pain in theass in some way And we bring
(13:29):
that pain in the assness to ourrelationships that we have in
our life.
Our pain in the assness isn'tnecessarily our attachment style
.
It's more the way that werespond which is actually based
on our attachment style, whetherwe shut down or we get
defensive or we're needy or wepush away.
And I wanna be really clearlike your, pain in the assness
(13:51):
isn't necessarily wrong, but incertain relationships it can be
really challenging for the otherperson.
They're not operating from thesame place, they have their own
attachment styles And in thatcommunication neither one of us
feel very understood.
And as we go throughrelationships, i think what
happens is we start to carrysome shame for our needs or
(14:13):
attachment styles or even theway that we respond in the
relationship, and our partners,I think, end up feeling really
defeated and resentful and theyget defensive because they don't
understand what it is thattheir partner needs.
So having this awareness, notonly about your attachment style
but the way in which yourespond when you don't feel
(14:35):
secure, is crucial.
Equally, it's so important foryour partner to understand this
whole concept as well.
I think it can actually bepretty transformative in your
life.
An attachment theory says thatthe people that we find
ourselves attracted to inrelationships it likely reminds
us of one of our primarycaregivers, and so if, for
(14:57):
instance, you were raised byemotionally unavailable, anxious
people, but they were alsoloving and charismatic to other
people, it's likely that you'regoing to seek partners with
similar traits.
When we have this realizationabout ourselves, i think that is
the point that we can reallystart to take some ownership and
we can grow.
And it's through that awarenessthat will allow us to make
(15:20):
different choices in how werespond as well as how we
communicate to our partners.
And the issue becomes when wedon't know how to express what
it is and our partner startsthrowing shit at the wall to see
what sticks and it feels likethey continually seem to miss
the mark and everybody feelsfrustrated and everybody feels
(15:40):
defeated.
Our partner's attempts atmaking us feel happy starts
feeling like they're just goingthrough the motions and their
attempts can actually make usfeel more disconnected because
to us it feels that they don'tactually understand.
And I think of it in the termsof an iceberg.
So if you think about it, atthe very tip of the iceberg you
(16:02):
have this very action-orientedspace.
Your partner attempts to makeyou happy And we have to believe
that our partners actually dowant to make us happy, but at
the very tip of this iceberg.
They're like hey look, i putthe dishes in the dishwasher for
you or I made date night justfor you.
Their intent is good But, asanyone knows, action doesn't
(16:23):
always equate to connection, andI think that's what's missing
in that action-oriented space.
And so, in my research andtalking to a lot of other people
about their own experiences,the connection is what the
partner is actually craving,because it's not about the
dishes, it's not about thescheduled date.
These are actions, they'remechanisms, but as partners we
(16:47):
need to discover what thatdeeper wanting is.
When we know what makes ourpartners feel secure, what story
or what does that tap into fromyour early childhood Because,
remember, all of this is writtenin our early childhood from our
caregivers We begin to connectdifferently to each other.
For instance, date night isnice, but what could it be that
(17:12):
date night really means?
Is it feeling like a sense ofimportance and priority to your
partner, because they didn'tfeel like that with their
relationship with theircaregivers?
When we have this understanding, we see that date night is one
mechanism, but greaterconnection comes through the
moments in our days where we canmake our partner a priority.
(17:34):
That's what's going to makethem actually feel secure
because they were missing thatwhen they were kids.
It's like a wound, which isactually exactly how Dr Stan
Tattkin, an expert on attachmenttheory, explains it.
He says that we have a bitethat fits each other's wounds,
which, in essence, acts asmagnets.
(17:56):
These wounds were created whenwe were little babies.
What we essentially want isother people that we have in our
adult life to heal these wounds.
We seek them out.
Our adult relationships arethere to solve the issues of the
past.
The people in our adultrelationships.
They didn't have anything to dowith those wounds.
(18:17):
We're just bringing them intoour life to help us solve those
old experiences.
When they don't respond to usin the way that we need them to,
we react, and we respond tothem in many ways the same way
we did when we were children.
So we may withdraw or we mayget clingy or we may get needy.
Whatever your default was as akid, it's likely you're still
(18:41):
responding in a similar way.
Dr Stan Tattkin says that theunderlying principle in a
quality relationship isunderstanding each other's early
wounds and responding in a waythat makes them feel secure in
the relationship.
So if you've ever heardsomebody say that they don't
feel seen, i believe it's thisdeep understanding of another
(19:02):
person.
I think that is actually whatpeople mean when they say they
don't feel seen or known.
And to understand this and tobe able to go that deep in a way
, we've got to see them as thatchild that's needing to feel
secure.
So we're going to have toreally work to go beyond our own
need.
It's this understanding that isespecially important.
(19:23):
And again, dr Stan Takin saysthat secure, functioning couples
orientate themselves to be ineach other's care, which I think
is just the most beautiful wayto say that.
And because relationships arenot only just the way that we
feel secure, but they also arelike a mirror and they inform us
(19:43):
and tell us if we are worthy ofgetting our needs met.
So when, for example, when ourpartner doesn't understand that
need of wanting to be a prioritybecause we weren't a priority
in our childhood, we will likelytell ourselves a story about
why we're not actually worthy,and our partner's inability to
(20:05):
understand what we need to healfrom this will actually affirm
this narrative that we've toldourselves for many years that
we're not worthy.
And when those needs are notmet, it continues to feed that
experience and that story, andthis alone is why forming secure
relationships is so important,because the quality of the
relationships that we have inour life.
(20:26):
They affect our health and ourhappiness, but they also affect
our self-esteem and theinfluence our self-confidence.
It is fundamental to oursurvival as humans to feel safe
in this world with the peoplethat we are closest to.
Dr Sam Tatkin has a great way ofillustrating how we respond to
(20:49):
our partners.
So in the book he lays out twoexamples, but I think that they
pointed out perfectly.
He says consider the followingscenario I step hard on your toe
in a room full of people.
Now consider the things I couldsay to you immediately after.
Number one I didn't see yourfoot.
Number two it wasn't my fault,somebody pushed me.
(21:11):
Number three watch where you'regoing.
Number four your foot is justtoo big.
Number five oh no, i'm sorry,are you okay?
You can see how the differencewhen we respond to something
like that makes a hugedifference And you can probably
pick up either where you feelthat from your partner or even
how you respond to your ownpartner.
(21:32):
Now he gives one more scenariothat I think illustrates it
quite perfectly.
I tell you how sorry I am forleaving this morning without
saying goodbye to you.
I admit that it was rude and itwas inconsiderate, despite the
reason for doing so.
Your response options might benumber one why did you do that?
Number two yes, it was rude andyou do it all the time.
(21:52):
Number three and you want me tobe loving to you, but you do
this.
Number four I'm angry for awhole lot of reasons and this is
just one.
Or number five thank you forsaying you're sorry.
So I think these are two greatillustrations of how we can
respond to our partner's pain ina stressful moment and largely
(22:14):
see them in the wound withoutbringing our own stuff into that
moment of recognizing pain.
But I want to be perfectlyhonest with you guys, because I
hate it when people are likejust do this and your
relationship will be perfect,because we got to be real.
This could be all well and good, but it is really hard to apply
because our path to bliss hasbecome probably a traffic jam
(22:38):
filled with resentment andunsolved issues and unfairness,
and it's just like those trafficjams, like those attempts.
We cannot move forward.
We've come to a complete stopbecause it's really tough to put
that stuff aside.
So I just want to say that Iknow that relationships are not
(22:58):
easy, and putting this intoaction is a lot easier said than
done, but I think, just evencoming at it from having the
awareness of this information,this has really helped me and I
really hope that in some way itcan help you too.
Knowing that my midliferelationships are foundational
to my overall happiness andhealth as I get older, it's
(23:20):
actually given me a differentmotivation to look at this stuff
.
So remember that each of thesestyles influences our response
and our relationships, and ourroles in our relationships are
really in defining a securerelationship to one another,
helping each other to truly feelseen and understood through
(23:40):
understanding our bite woundsand what our responses are to
them, because we really are ineach other's care, and I don't
think that this idea should betaken lightly.
So with that, you guys, i hopeyou guys have enjoyed this.
I hope you guys have found thishelpful.
It has been extremelymind-opening for me to
understand what qualityrelationships are, and I hope it
(24:01):
is for you too.
I will talk to you guys nexttime, take care.
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