November 12, 2024 • 27 mins
This week, a special episode of Foundation Radio with Robert Costa, Chief Election and Campaign Correspondent for CBS News. Adam and Robert dive deep into the shocking results of the 2024 U.S. Presidential Election, Donald Trump's transition, the response from Democratic leadership, and the future of the Democratic Party.
PRODUCER'S NOTE: This episode was recorded on Saturday, November 9th, at 11:30am EST. In the ever changing world of politics, both domestic and international, some things may have changed since recording. To stay up to date with all things regarding the 2024 Election, be sure to tune in to Robert's reporting on CBS News. Check your local listings for details.
Follow Robert on Instagram, Twitter, and Threads - @costareports
Special thanks to 10th Ward Barbershop - Proudly serving the historic 10th Ward in Lawrenceville and surrounding areas, 10th Ward Barbershop is a full service barbershop offering quality haircuts, beard trims, and hot shaves. Schedule your appointment with Finn Balor and Corey Graves' favorite barbershop today.
Host/Executive Producer: Adam Barnard
Additional Production/Narration: Sam Krepps
Engineer: Carl Pannell
Intro Music: Carl Pannell
Outro Music/Musical Accompaniment: Enrichment
Instagram/X/Threads/Bluesky: @thisisgoober | @fndradiopod
A Butts Carlton Media production. Butts Carlton, Proprietor.
PRODUCER'S NOTE: This episode was recorded on Saturday, November 9th, at 11:30am EST. In the ever changing world of politics, both domestic and international, some things may have changed since recording. To stay up to date with all things regarding the 2024 Election, be sure to tune in to Robert's reporting on CBS News. Check your local listings for details.
Follow Robert on Instagram, Twitter, and Threads - @costareports
Special thanks to 10th Ward Barbershop - Proudly serving the historic 10th Ward in Lawrenceville and surrounding areas, 10th Ward Barbershop is a full service barbershop offering quality haircuts, beard trims, and hot shaves. Schedule your appointment with Finn Balor and Corey Graves' favorite barbershop today.
Host/Executive Producer: Adam Barnard
Additional Production/Narration: Sam Krepps
Engineer: Carl Pannell
Intro Music: Carl Pannell
Outro Music/Musical Accompaniment: Enrichment
Instagram/X/Threads/Bluesky: @thisisgoober | @fndradiopod
A Butts Carlton Media production. Butts Carlton, Proprietor.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
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Yeah.
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Speaker 1 (01:28):
Hey, it's Adam. I just want to give you a
quick heads up before this episode begins. Robert and I
recorded this episode on Saturday, November ninth, at around eleven
thirty am. Now, some of the Senate races, including the
Pennsylvania Senate race between Bob Casey and his opponent Dave McCormick,
have yet to be officially called as of the time
of this recording. To keep up to date with all
the latest news surrounding the twenty twenty four election, the
(01:48):
Trump transition team, and other news items, follow Robert on
x at Cost of Reports. Okay, here's the show, and
thanks for listening. Welcome to a special episode of Foundation Radio.
(02:26):
My name is Adam Bernard. Thank you so much for
joining me today. My guest is the chief election and
campaign correspondent for CBS News and the co author of
Peril the Definitive book on the twenty twenty election. My
friend Robert Costa, Welcome back to the show, sir, how
are you.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
Today, So good to be with you. Thank you for
having me.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
I appreciate your time as always.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Now we are about a full week removed from the
twenty twenty four election, and let's start at the very
top here. Donald Trump has been re elected as the
forty seventh president of the United States. What's the word
inside the Trump camp a week out from the election?
Speaker 5 (02:56):
Now, Well, they've been through this before, a transition. This
is so unlike twenty sixteen, when it was chaotic. Trump
was an outsider, he didn't have many contacts in Washington.
Now Trump's a former president coming back to the presidency,
so there seems to be a little less drama this time.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Now.
Speaker 5 (03:17):
Trump always likes to stimulate debate, and he has in
sandiary rhetoric that gets his critics riled up. So Trump
as a political character, as a political leader, remains Trump.
But in picking Susie Wilds as his chief of staff
for the White House, it's a reflection of how Trump's
inner circle really works these days. He has in Susie Wilds,
(03:41):
someone who's a hardened operative from Florida, who's low key,
and notably on election night, when Trump invited her to
take the microphone, she declined.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
And that's kind of them of the Trump world these days.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Now.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
I know that the election polling was always close, you know,
and most of the final polls that Vice President Kamala
Harris was going to sweak out a razor thin win,
but the electorate showed differently. Where, if anywhere, do you
think the pollsters went wrong this year.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Well, it's always.
Speaker 5 (04:13):
Hard for the pollsters to calculate where the electorate is.
For many years, Democrats running for president got around sixty
to sixty five million votes. Then President Biden got over
eighty million votes in twenty twenty, and now we've seen
kind of a return to the me with Vice President
Harris getting around seventy million votes, And so we're not
(04:37):
getting a full understanding of the size of the electorate
because of the rapid changes in America.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
I would put it this way.
Speaker 5 (04:46):
In twenty sixteen, the most intriguing voter was what I
would call the right leaning non voter, the voter who
rarely participated in politics but came out for Donald Trump
because they wanted an outsider and the most intriguing voter
in twenty twenty two was the left leaning non voter,
the low propensity voter who rarely votes or participates in
(05:08):
American politics, but came out in twenty twenty two to
support abortion rights in the wake of Roe v.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Wade being overturned.
Speaker 5 (05:15):
So we're seeing a lot of people who don't normally
participate in politics, left right and center come out and
vote in a lot of presidential elections, even some midterm elections,
and that makes it harder for polsters to really understand
who the voting block is out there. And we live
in a time with scrambled politics where when we were
growing up in Bucks County, you and I kind of
(05:37):
had a sense that things were red or blue, people
were a Republican or Democrat. But now you have people
in the Trump coalition Robert F. Kennedy Junior and Tulca Gabbard,
former Democrats who have drifted towards Trump, not necessarily towards
Republican values, but towards Trump. And the Trump movement has
taken a lot of working people who are supportive of unions,
(05:59):
who want tighter borders and brought them over to the fold.
Whereas the Democrats are starting to win over much more
to some extent traditional Republicans from places like Bucks County,
in the Philadelphia suburbs and elsewhere, who are a Paul
that Trump's conduct and so long story short. Polling is
valuable to a point as maybe a snapshot, but like
(06:21):
any kind of snapshot on your phone, it only sometimes
gives you one angle or one glimpse at one time period,
and it's not the full picture of what the reality
is around you. It's just a snapshot. And so I
always as a reporter to try to not rely on polls.
I respect polls and a data driven operation that has
(06:42):
some merit, but you can't have a reliance on it
as an indicator where everything's going.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Now, I want to get a little granular.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
We're talking about some of the voting block and some
of the people that one of the biggest surprises rather
in the voting blocks came from Latino men who voted
overwhelmingly in favor of Donald Trump. What have you heard
about Latino voters stating about this choice to vote for Trump,
even after the controversial racist remarks made by Trump surrogates
at the Madison Square Garden rally just before the election,
(07:12):
while I.
Speaker 5 (07:12):
Was there at Madison Square Garden, and you know, you
sit in the press area of MSG and you watch
how the press digests what's happening down there on the stage.
And there was a lot of attention to the offensive
remarks about Puerto Rico and other demographic groups by some
(07:34):
of the speakers there, and that captured the headlines, but
you didn't hear much of a reaction from the crowd.
Trump was the story, not the guest speakers, not the
kind of sideline things.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
And so we're in an age where people are following the.
Speaker 5 (07:49):
News on social media, sometimes on traditional media, but kind
of in their own curated spaces, and so things that
used to be seismic in terms of news impact no
longer have that kind of predictable flow where if something
makes them mainstream press or the traditional press, it somehow
becomes gains a foothold in the national consciousness. And this
(08:10):
expectation that an offensive remarket a Trump rally suddenly changes
the race or flips Latino voters a certain way, it's
just never something I saw on my reporting because so
many voters I've encountered, including Latino men and women have
baked into their own calculation of the candidates that Trump
(08:35):
and his orbits sometimes push the boundary, if not go
way over the boundary of what they find viable for
public discourse, but they don't think that's something that's going
to suddenly change their vote. Many of these voters are
driven by economic issues, or immigration issues, or cultural issues,
and some kind of flare that comes up in the
(08:57):
news cycle isn't necessarily going to turn them. And this
has been a test for the press because the traditional
way of understanding how political and presidential campaigns unfold is
constantly kind of collapsing in the midst of these campaigns
and in coverage of Washington, and so I urge my
(09:19):
colleagues in the press to assume nothing.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
And that's always been my motto.
Speaker 5 (09:25):
You and I have talked about that before, where you
can't have an assumption about how something is going to play,
because the unpredictable and the unexpected and kind of the
non conventional is now becoming almost the norm because the
way people live their lives.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Now.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
We know you talked a little bit here about bucks counting,
which again where we both grew up, and it looks
like according to the current data, it looks like Vice
President Harris only lost the county by about thirteen hundred votes,
and they're still counting. They're still you know, with the
race has obviously been at this point.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
What did your.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Reporting show about the commonwealth Pennsylvania flipping backred in general,
and what were some of the voters saying in Pennsylvania
that led to this moment.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
It's a great question.
Speaker 5 (10:11):
I spent a lot of time in Bucks County during
the campaign.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
I covered Vice President Harris there, I've talked to Republicans.
My sense is that.
Speaker 5 (10:19):
Bucks County reflects a lot of kind of post industrial
suburbs in the mid Atlantic Northeast and South, where you
have a history of industry that's long gone away. Think
about the steel plants from the seventies and eighties in
Bucks County that used to be vital centers of commerce
but now are kind of faded, and it's become a
lot of office parks and healthcare work dealing with the
(10:43):
aging populations, education centers, and so the evolving of the
suburb has changed, but there's still kind of an ethos
of personality in the suburbs where it's anti establishment.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
In like Lower Bucks County.
Speaker 5 (10:58):
It's a Union voter or a Republican who's culturally conservative,
and they're often open to Trump or trump Ism or
the idea of clashing with the political establishment. And if
you couple that together with a more business minded moderate
voter in upper Bucks County or kind of a wealthier
(11:21):
area of college degree holding business people and their families,
you see that Republicans.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
Have firm ground.
Speaker 5 (11:32):
The soft area there in so many suburbs is the
question of character and conduct, and that's where Vice President
Harris thought she could make some inroads. And when I
saw her in Bucks County, Pennsylvania, she was there with
Jim Greenwood, kind of the buttoned up former congressman, moderate
centrist Republican who supports abortion rights. He was there along
with a lot of other centrist Republicans, including former New
Jersey Governor Christine Todd Whitman. And you saw Harris trying
(11:55):
to make an overture to suburban Republicans, saying, hey, Trump's.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
Just too much.
Speaker 5 (11:59):
Don't you want to have a more conservative in terms
of temperament person, even if they're a Democrat, be in.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
The White House. Yet a lot of.
Speaker 5 (12:10):
Republicans still have Republican values, and they're not just turning
on the character question. And that's going to be studied
as potentially a miscalculation or mistake by the Democrats to
really think that by putting forward so called never Trumpers
or anti Trumpers or moderate Republicans, that it would somehow
(12:30):
really put together this ground twelve support for the Democrats.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Now we know President Joe Biden recently gave a speech
from the White House following the Vice president's concession speech.
What was the response that you've heard from his speech,
especially with the White House and Joe Biden calling the
results of the election is set back? Is the everybody
any conversation or comment from that in your reporting that
you found, Well.
Speaker 5 (12:54):
You're going to see for the next four years, Adam,
that the Democrats are going to have a reckoning over
what happened here. The future of the Democratic parties now
in flux. You have an outgoing president who's in his
eighties and obviously not running again. You have an outgoing
vice president who ran and lost and she might run again,
but she's by no means the front runner the twenty
(13:14):
twenty eight nomination. And you have a lot of governors
out there like Pennsylvanias, Josh Shapiro, Marilynd's, Wes Moore, Michigan's Scretch,
and Whitmer who are ambitious and will likely be in
the mix for twenty twenty eight. In twenty twenty eight
in open race, and so the Democrat because Trump's not
going to be able to run for a third term
unless the constitutions changed.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
So you.
Speaker 5 (13:35):
Have right now a Democratic Party that is going to
try to win back a lot of the working people.
But there's going to be a real debate over how
to do that and how do you win over the
young people, the black men, the Latino men who have
drifted towards Trump. And it's going to be a big fight,
likely for the Democrats, a lot of acrimony in this moment.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
But then the question is going to be who has
the solution.
Speaker 5 (13:57):
And I'm paying attention in particularly to Gavin Newsom, the
California governor. He is someone who has been studying the
right wing, watching Fox News debating Ron de Santis, going
on Sean Hannity for a long time, and that tells
me that he's kind of studying the transformation of American
politics and the different trends and currents that are driving
(14:19):
people's thinking and votes, and so he's someone I'm definitely
paying attention to.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Now speaking of the Democratic Party, one of the questions
I was going to ask you was actually a recent
commentary from Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders. I'm reading in part
in quote from his statement, he says, quote, it should
come as no great surprise than the Democratic Party, which
has abandoned working class people, would find that the working
class has abandoned them. Now, obviously Senator Sanders is older
(14:44):
in age at this point, but do you see him
factoring to some kind of resistance or opposition with the Democrats,
and could he be still a key figure in changing
the way the Democratic Party approaches the general voter or
their party of platform in general?
Speaker 5 (14:58):
I think if Sanders I was ten years younger, he'd
be the front runner for twenty twenty eight. But since
he's in his eighties, it's hard to say that, you know,
age eighty four or eighty five, he's going to be
the nominee for the Democrats, because I mean, he'd be
close to ninety if he won office. So I just
don't see Sanders running for the White House in twenty
twenty eight in his mid eighties.
Speaker 4 (15:18):
Though, of course you don't rule it out, but I
just don't see that.
Speaker 5 (15:22):
But Sanders, to your point, I think it's going to
be a major force because his wing of the party is.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
Going to say, look, we got to do more.
Speaker 5 (15:29):
We can't just take for granted that the working people
are going to come our way.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
And it's interesting because.
Speaker 5 (15:36):
Alexandrocadrick Cortez, the Democratic lawmaker from New York, I think
she's part of the Sanders coalition. Her voice, so I think,
will be one to watch. What does she want to do,
does she want to run even from the House of Representatives.
And then you know someone like John fetterman or from Pennsylvania,
who has kind of an outsider personality and profile, who
(15:58):
has already been critical of how the Democrats message. He
was critical this week of the so called talk of
bros and how Democrats really shouldn't be talking about bros.
It's a derogatory term in his view, to start using
that kind of language in terms of talking about male voters.
And he thinks the Democrats got to be careful with
(16:18):
their language if they want to win over some of
these younger male.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Voters now shifting back a little bit here to President
elect Trump, there's been a renewed focus on Project twenty
twenty five, the controversial conservative initiative from the Heritage Foundation.
Items inside of this plan include the consolidation of executive power,
the dismantling of the Department of Education, and also the
Department of Homeland Security. President elect Trump has previously stated
(16:43):
on the campaign trail that he has no plans to
enact Project twenty of twenty five, But since the election
then things have changed. Has there been any change from
his circle or from the President elect himself about enacting
this agenda.
Speaker 5 (16:56):
I don't see Project twenty twenty five being enacted because
Trump is disavowed it. At the same time, a lot
of people from the Heritage Foundation and other conservative think
tanks are going to be considered for administrative posts because
they are part of this conservative firmament that has real
influence in.
Speaker 4 (17:13):
The Republican Party.
Speaker 5 (17:14):
So it's not like the people who support Project twenty
twenty five are going to have a seated table. Trump's
not running away from ideas and suggestions that are mentioned
in this plan.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
I think the.
Speaker 5 (17:25):
Biggest problem for Project twenty twenty five is that they
made a crucial mistake in how they handle Trump. Trump
doesn't ever like to be seen as being boxed in
on anything. I've covered him for years, and Project twenty
twenty five created this situation where he had to answer
for something that wasn't his. And there's nothing he despises
more than kind of others speaking for him. So he's
(17:49):
not going to adopt it as a program. But the
policies could see their way into the administration in their
own way, on their own timeline.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
We talked a little bit also to about Susie Wiles,
who is his chief of staff. There's also been rumors
about other key positions. I know that Marco Rubio has
been mentioned in some circles in some reporting as a
potential Secretary of State nominee, and then also Linda McMahon
as the Secretary of Commerce. We also talked about Robert F.
Kennedy Junior. And now I see that Mike Pompeio is
potentially back in the news as Secretary of Defense. What
(18:19):
do you see his cabinet, Trump's cabinet really boiling down
to and then also do you see a place for
Elon Musk inside of that cabinet?
Speaker 2 (18:26):
And what would that look like.
Speaker 5 (18:28):
I don't see Elon Musk joining the cabinet. I see
Elon Musk as someone who's going to be very influential.
He has Trump's trust, he invested heavily in the campaign,
and people like Mike Pompeo who clashed with Trump observed
in the previous administration. I think they're all going to
get a look. Trump is not the kind of person
who holds grudges forever. He's just want to He wants
to see if people are loyal. Now, the most important
(18:48):
thing that Trump, I'm told, is the Department of Justice.
He wants to have a age who's not going to
be like Jeff Sessions and be someone who he believes
is not really on his side. And so I'm really
watching who he picks for CIA, DJ Justice, AG and
DHS is going to be important because Trump's proposing mass deportations,
(19:11):
which is pretty serious.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Now, another question I have in regards to, you know,
as far as Joe Biden is concerned. There's been conversation
amongst some circles as well about the effect of President
Joe Biden not stepping aside earlier in the primary processes,
rather in order to allow for an open Democratic primary.
I know's we don't like to talk about, you know,
generalities and kind of forecast here or look backwards. But
(19:34):
do you think it's possible that an open primary would
have affected the outcome of the election or do you
think that's just wishful thinking on the Democrats part?
Speaker 5 (19:42):
Oh, Democrats are going to have this fight for a
long time. Nancy Pelosi has been giving interviews saying she
really believes there should have been an open primary, that
that was part of her thought process. But I mean,
Joe Biden's allies have told me behind the scenes, what
was he.
Speaker 4 (19:56):
Supposed to do?
Speaker 5 (19:57):
I mean, he was going to endorse his vice president.
It shouldn't be surprising at people that he endorsed the
loyal person who was his number two, and he was
angry that he was being essentially forced out of the race.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
So you have this kind of.
Speaker 5 (20:14):
He could have gotten out after the twenty two midterms,
some Democrats tell me. But at the same time, Biden
people shoot back to me when I'm talking to the privately, Look,
he did better than everyone thought in the twenty twenty
two midterms, So why would he have left the White
House in the nomination fight after Democrats did far more better,
far better than expected in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
So it's just a strange.
Speaker 5 (20:34):
It's going to be a fight that's had for a
long time in terms of, you know, should Biden have
gotten out?
Speaker 4 (20:42):
And the Biden people are very defensive that.
Speaker 5 (20:44):
You know, these people who criticize Biden about the timing
of his announcement that they feel he would have beaten
Trump still, and so that's kind of the Biden defense
to this day is that they believe Joe Biden would
have beaten Trump even after that debate that went so bad.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Now we know, we talked a little bit about the
the Department of Justice, and I've seen some reports about
Special Counsel Jack Smith starting to wind down some of
the cases that are outstanding against Donald Trump. There's also
some state level cases. I know we're waiting for the sentencing,
and I believe it's the New York case as well.
What do you foresee happening with these cases, not just
with the special counsel but the state level cases. Do
(21:24):
you see them going away? Do you see them hitting
additional roadblocks? What do you think is the future of
all of his upcoming criminal cases?
Speaker 4 (21:33):
Well?
Speaker 5 (21:33):
The Justice Department has signaled that they're getting rid of
the cases on January sixth, that they're just not going
to be moving forward because the Justice Department has a
policy where you can't really prosecute the sitting president of
the United States because you'd be prosecuting your own boss,
and it would be complicated to have the head of
the Justice Department being investigated by the Justice Department and
prosecuted by the Justice Department. Now people would argue then
(21:57):
that means the president's immune from the law, But it's
been long standing Justice Department policy to not prosecute the
sitting president, and Trump being a former president made it possible,
so he was being prosecuted as a former president. But
it's also complicated now that Trump the Supreme Court rule
that presidents have immunity on what are called official acts
(22:18):
to some extent. So Trump now as president's going to
have a lot of executive power to do what he
wants to think through how he wants to use the presidency.
And it alarms some Democrats and excites some Republicans because
they believe that Trump's going to be unburdened by kind
(22:39):
of some legal questions of how much he can do that.
He can really use executive power to push forward his agenda,
and the Supreme Court Rulin essentially backs him up and
protects him from prosecution.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Now you're co author in the book Peril.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Bob Woodward just released a book recently called War, and
he's been doing some reporting in some interviews recently about
the book promotion of the book, and he gave specific
attention to President elect Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin,
and he says, quote, it seemed like it might be
black It seems like it might be blackmail.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
What do you think about that.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Quote based on your reporting, based upon mister Woodward's book,
And where do you see Trump and Putin's relationship going
in relation to maybe domestic international policy and specifically with Ukraine.
Speaker 5 (23:27):
You're looking at a presidency where foreign policy is going
to be again, as Trump calls it, America first or
non interventionists. And I can't speak to Trump's personal relationship
with Putin at this time. I don't have much reporting
on that, but I do know that Trump is telling
people behind the scenes that one of his first priorities,
if not the first priority, on foreign policy, is to
get Celensky to the negotiating table with Putin and to
(23:48):
cut a piece deal with Ukraine in Russia. Now, that
might mean that Ukraine will be unhappy with the contours
of that deal if it means giving over some land
of Russia or in some way conceding different parts of
the battlefield in order to end the war. But Trump
believes he has a mandate to spearhead those discussions and
(24:09):
ultimately brokeer a deal.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Now, I know you've been covering you know, President Electrump
for many years now, probably close to a decade, and
you know we were all around during the twenty sixteen presidency.
What do you foresee, based upon your reporting and based
upon your history with Trump, what can potentially people expect
from a second Trump presidency moving forward?
Speaker 5 (24:31):
You're looking at a paradigm shift presidency. Whereas Trump came
in and kind of cracked the window of how the
American presidency works. Now, this is something that could shatter
the window that the norms in which the presidency has
lived in for a long time. Is now dealing with
(24:52):
a seventy eight year old man who has an enormous
power based on the Supreme Court ruling, based on his
perception of his electoral mandate to come in and use
executive power along with congressional power thanks to what looks
like congressional majorities, to enact to sweeping agenda. You're looking
at mass deportations of migrants, sweeping tariffs across the board,
(25:16):
deregulation in countless federal agencies, the involvement of outside tech
titans like Elon Musk, outside figures like Robert F. Kennedy
Junior when it comes to healthcare. So, but Trump has
also learned a lot from his first time around. So
the chaos might not be as president in terms of personnel,
(25:38):
it could still be turbulent in terms of policy.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Robert cost I want to thank you again for your
time in joining us again on the show to break
down the election and everything that's coming. Where can listeners
keep up to date with all of your reporting and
keep up today with any news that you may have
coming out.
Speaker 5 (25:53):
Well, I'm at CBS and you can watch CBS Sunday
Morning or CBS Mornings or CBS Evening News Facination, among
other programs, CBS twenty four to seven streaming, and I
also am on social media on x Costa Reports and
beyond that.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
Just I'm always available if people have tips.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Robert Kossa, thank you so much for your time, Sorr,
I appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (26:20):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
This episode of Foundation Radio was hosted, recorded, and produced
by me Adam Barnard. Additional narration is provided by Sam Krepps.
The show is mixed and engineered by Carl Panell. The
show's intro music was arranged and produced by Carl Panell.
The show's outro music and all additional musical accompaniment was
arranged and produced by In Richmond. Followed the show on Instagram,
(26:56):
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Speaker 2 (00:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
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Speaker 1 (01:28):
Hey, it's Adam. I just want to give you a
quick heads up before this episode begins. Robert and I
recorded this episode on Saturday, November ninth, at around eleven
thirty am. Now, some of the Senate races, including the
Pennsylvania Senate race between Bob Casey and his opponent Dave McCormick,
have yet to be officially called as of the time
of this recording. To keep up to date with all
the latest news surrounding the twenty twenty four election, the
(01:48):
Trump transition team, and other news items, follow Robert on
x at Cost of Reports. Okay, here's the show, and
thanks for listening. Welcome to a special episode of Foundation Radio.
(02:26):
My name is Adam Bernard. Thank you so much for
joining me today. My guest is the chief election and
campaign correspondent for CBS News and the co author of
Peril the Definitive book on the twenty twenty election. My
friend Robert Costa, Welcome back to the show, sir, how
are you.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
Today, So good to be with you. Thank you for
having me.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
I appreciate your time as always.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Now we are about a full week removed from the
twenty twenty four election, and let's start at the very
top here. Donald Trump has been re elected as the
forty seventh president of the United States. What's the word
inside the Trump camp a week out from the election?
Speaker 5 (02:56):
Now, Well, they've been through this before, a transition. This
is so unlike twenty sixteen, when it was chaotic. Trump
was an outsider, he didn't have many contacts in Washington.
Now Trump's a former president coming back to the presidency,
so there seems to be a little less drama this time.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Now.
Speaker 5 (03:17):
Trump always likes to stimulate debate, and he has in
sandiary rhetoric that gets his critics riled up. So Trump
as a political character, as a political leader, remains Trump.
But in picking Susie Wilds as his chief of staff
for the White House, it's a reflection of how Trump's
inner circle really works these days. He has in Susie Wilds,
(03:41):
someone who's a hardened operative from Florida, who's low key,
and notably on election night, when Trump invited her to
take the microphone, she declined.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
And that's kind of them of the Trump world these days.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Now.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
I know that the election polling was always close, you know,
and most of the final polls that Vice President Kamala
Harris was going to sweak out a razor thin win,
but the electorate showed differently. Where, if anywhere, do you
think the pollsters went wrong this year.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Well, it's always.
Speaker 5 (04:13):
Hard for the pollsters to calculate where the electorate is.
For many years, Democrats running for president got around sixty
to sixty five million votes. Then President Biden got over
eighty million votes in twenty twenty, and now we've seen
kind of a return to the me with Vice President
Harris getting around seventy million votes, And so we're not
(04:37):
getting a full understanding of the size of the electorate
because of the rapid changes in America.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
I would put it this way.
Speaker 5 (04:46):
In twenty sixteen, the most intriguing voter was what I
would call the right leaning non voter, the voter who
rarely participated in politics but came out for Donald Trump
because they wanted an outsider and the most intriguing voter
in twenty twenty two was the left leaning non voter,
the low propensity voter who rarely votes or participates in
(05:08):
American politics, but came out in twenty twenty two to
support abortion rights in the wake of Roe v.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Wade being overturned.
Speaker 5 (05:15):
So we're seeing a lot of people who don't normally
participate in politics, left right and center come out and
vote in a lot of presidential elections, even some midterm elections,
and that makes it harder for polsters to really understand
who the voting block is out there. And we live
in a time with scrambled politics where when we were
growing up in Bucks County, you and I kind of
(05:37):
had a sense that things were red or blue, people
were a Republican or Democrat. But now you have people
in the Trump coalition Robert F. Kennedy Junior and Tulca Gabbard,
former Democrats who have drifted towards Trump, not necessarily towards
Republican values, but towards Trump. And the Trump movement has
taken a lot of working people who are supportive of unions,
(05:59):
who want tighter borders and brought them over to the fold.
Whereas the Democrats are starting to win over much more
to some extent traditional Republicans from places like Bucks County,
in the Philadelphia suburbs and elsewhere, who are a Paul
that Trump's conduct and so long story short. Polling is
valuable to a point as maybe a snapshot, but like
(06:21):
any kind of snapshot on your phone, it only sometimes
gives you one angle or one glimpse at one time period,
and it's not the full picture of what the reality
is around you. It's just a snapshot. And so I
always as a reporter to try to not rely on polls.
I respect polls and a data driven operation that has
(06:42):
some merit, but you can't have a reliance on it
as an indicator where everything's going.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Now, I want to get a little granular.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
We're talking about some of the voting block and some
of the people that one of the biggest surprises rather
in the voting blocks came from Latino men who voted
overwhelmingly in favor of Donald Trump. What have you heard
about Latino voters stating about this choice to vote for Trump,
even after the controversial racist remarks made by Trump surrogates
at the Madison Square Garden rally just before the election,
(07:12):
while I.
Speaker 5 (07:12):
Was there at Madison Square Garden, and you know, you
sit in the press area of MSG and you watch
how the press digests what's happening down there on the stage.
And there was a lot of attention to the offensive
remarks about Puerto Rico and other demographic groups by some
(07:34):
of the speakers there, and that captured the headlines, but
you didn't hear much of a reaction from the crowd.
Trump was the story, not the guest speakers, not the
kind of sideline things.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
And so we're in an age where people are following the.
Speaker 5 (07:49):
News on social media, sometimes on traditional media, but kind
of in their own curated spaces, and so things that
used to be seismic in terms of news impact no
longer have that kind of predictable flow where if something
makes them mainstream press or the traditional press, it somehow
becomes gains a foothold in the national consciousness. And this
(08:10):
expectation that an offensive remarket a Trump rally suddenly changes
the race or flips Latino voters a certain way, it's
just never something I saw on my reporting because so
many voters I've encountered, including Latino men and women have
baked into their own calculation of the candidates that Trump
(08:35):
and his orbits sometimes push the boundary, if not go
way over the boundary of what they find viable for
public discourse, but they don't think that's something that's going
to suddenly change their vote. Many of these voters are
driven by economic issues, or immigration issues, or cultural issues,
and some kind of flare that comes up in the
(08:57):
news cycle isn't necessarily going to turn them. And this
has been a test for the press because the traditional
way of understanding how political and presidential campaigns unfold is
constantly kind of collapsing in the midst of these campaigns
and in coverage of Washington, and so I urge my
(09:19):
colleagues in the press to assume nothing.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
And that's always been my motto.
Speaker 5 (09:25):
You and I have talked about that before, where you
can't have an assumption about how something is going to play,
because the unpredictable and the unexpected and kind of the
non conventional is now becoming almost the norm because the
way people live their lives.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Now.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
We know you talked a little bit here about bucks counting,
which again where we both grew up, and it looks
like according to the current data, it looks like Vice
President Harris only lost the county by about thirteen hundred votes,
and they're still counting. They're still you know, with the
race has obviously been at this point.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
What did your.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Reporting show about the commonwealth Pennsylvania flipping backred in general,
and what were some of the voters saying in Pennsylvania
that led to this moment.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
It's a great question.
Speaker 5 (10:11):
I spent a lot of time in Bucks County during
the campaign.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
I covered Vice President Harris there, I've talked to Republicans.
My sense is that.
Speaker 5 (10:19):
Bucks County reflects a lot of kind of post industrial
suburbs in the mid Atlantic Northeast and South, where you
have a history of industry that's long gone away. Think
about the steel plants from the seventies and eighties in
Bucks County that used to be vital centers of commerce
but now are kind of faded, and it's become a
lot of office parks and healthcare work dealing with the
(10:43):
aging populations, education centers, and so the evolving of the
suburb has changed, but there's still kind of an ethos
of personality in the suburbs where it's anti establishment.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
In like Lower Bucks County.
Speaker 5 (10:58):
It's a Union voter or a Republican who's culturally conservative,
and they're often open to Trump or trump Ism or
the idea of clashing with the political establishment. And if
you couple that together with a more business minded moderate
voter in upper Bucks County or kind of a wealthier
(11:21):
area of college degree holding business people and their families,
you see that Republicans.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
Have firm ground.
Speaker 5 (11:32):
The soft area there in so many suburbs is the
question of character and conduct, and that's where Vice President
Harris thought she could make some inroads. And when I
saw her in Bucks County, Pennsylvania, she was there with
Jim Greenwood, kind of the buttoned up former congressman, moderate
centrist Republican who supports abortion rights. He was there along
with a lot of other centrist Republicans, including former New
Jersey Governor Christine Todd Whitman. And you saw Harris trying
(11:55):
to make an overture to suburban Republicans, saying, hey, Trump's.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
Just too much.
Speaker 5 (11:59):
Don't you want to have a more conservative in terms
of temperament person, even if they're a Democrat, be in.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
The White House. Yet a lot of.
Speaker 5 (12:10):
Republicans still have Republican values, and they're not just turning
on the character question. And that's going to be studied
as potentially a miscalculation or mistake by the Democrats to
really think that by putting forward so called never Trumpers
or anti Trumpers or moderate Republicans, that it would somehow
(12:30):
really put together this ground twelve support for the Democrats.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Now we know President Joe Biden recently gave a speech
from the White House following the Vice president's concession speech.
What was the response that you've heard from his speech,
especially with the White House and Joe Biden calling the
results of the election is set back? Is the everybody
any conversation or comment from that in your reporting that
you found, Well.
Speaker 5 (12:54):
You're going to see for the next four years, Adam,
that the Democrats are going to have a reckoning over
what happened here. The future of the Democratic parties now
in flux. You have an outgoing president who's in his
eighties and obviously not running again. You have an outgoing
vice president who ran and lost and she might run again,
but she's by no means the front runner the twenty
(13:14):
twenty eight nomination. And you have a lot of governors
out there like Pennsylvanias, Josh Shapiro, Marilynd's, Wes Moore, Michigan's Scretch,
and Whitmer who are ambitious and will likely be in
the mix for twenty twenty eight. In twenty twenty eight
in open race, and so the Democrat because Trump's not
going to be able to run for a third term
unless the constitutions changed.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
So you.
Speaker 5 (13:35):
Have right now a Democratic Party that is going to
try to win back a lot of the working people.
But there's going to be a real debate over how
to do that and how do you win over the
young people, the black men, the Latino men who have
drifted towards Trump. And it's going to be a big fight,
likely for the Democrats, a lot of acrimony in this moment.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
But then the question is going to be who has
the solution.
Speaker 5 (13:57):
And I'm paying attention in particularly to Gavin Newsom, the
California governor. He is someone who has been studying the
right wing, watching Fox News debating Ron de Santis, going
on Sean Hannity for a long time, and that tells
me that he's kind of studying the transformation of American
politics and the different trends and currents that are driving
(14:19):
people's thinking and votes, and so he's someone I'm definitely
paying attention to.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Now speaking of the Democratic Party, one of the questions
I was going to ask you was actually a recent
commentary from Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders. I'm reading in part
in quote from his statement, he says, quote, it should
come as no great surprise than the Democratic Party, which
has abandoned working class people, would find that the working
class has abandoned them. Now, obviously Senator Sanders is older
(14:44):
in age at this point, but do you see him
factoring to some kind of resistance or opposition with the Democrats,
and could he be still a key figure in changing
the way the Democratic Party approaches the general voter or
their party of platform in general?
Speaker 5 (14:58):
I think if Sanders I was ten years younger, he'd
be the front runner for twenty twenty eight. But since
he's in his eighties, it's hard to say that, you know,
age eighty four or eighty five, he's going to be
the nominee for the Democrats, because I mean, he'd be
close to ninety if he won office. So I just
don't see Sanders running for the White House in twenty
twenty eight in his mid eighties.
Speaker 4 (15:18):
Though, of course you don't rule it out, but I
just don't see that.
Speaker 5 (15:22):
But Sanders, to your point, I think it's going to
be a major force because his wing of the party is.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
Going to say, look, we got to do more.
Speaker 5 (15:29):
We can't just take for granted that the working people
are going to come our way.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
And it's interesting because.
Speaker 5 (15:36):
Alexandrocadrick Cortez, the Democratic lawmaker from New York, I think
she's part of the Sanders coalition. Her voice, so I think,
will be one to watch. What does she want to do,
does she want to run even from the House of Representatives.
And then you know someone like John fetterman or from Pennsylvania,
who has kind of an outsider personality and profile, who
(15:58):
has already been critical of how the Democrats message. He
was critical this week of the so called talk of
bros and how Democrats really shouldn't be talking about bros.
It's a derogatory term in his view, to start using
that kind of language in terms of talking about male voters.
And he thinks the Democrats got to be careful with
(16:18):
their language if they want to win over some of
these younger male.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Voters now shifting back a little bit here to President
elect Trump, there's been a renewed focus on Project twenty
twenty five, the controversial conservative initiative from the Heritage Foundation.
Items inside of this plan include the consolidation of executive power,
the dismantling of the Department of Education, and also the
Department of Homeland Security. President elect Trump has previously stated
(16:43):
on the campaign trail that he has no plans to
enact Project twenty of twenty five, But since the election
then things have changed. Has there been any change from
his circle or from the President elect himself about enacting
this agenda.
Speaker 5 (16:56):
I don't see Project twenty twenty five being enacted because
Trump is disavowed it. At the same time, a lot
of people from the Heritage Foundation and other conservative think
tanks are going to be considered for administrative posts because
they are part of this conservative firmament that has real
influence in.
Speaker 4 (17:13):
The Republican Party.
Speaker 5 (17:14):
So it's not like the people who support Project twenty
twenty five are going to have a seated table. Trump's
not running away from ideas and suggestions that are mentioned
in this plan.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
I think the.
Speaker 5 (17:25):
Biggest problem for Project twenty twenty five is that they
made a crucial mistake in how they handle Trump. Trump
doesn't ever like to be seen as being boxed in
on anything. I've covered him for years, and Project twenty
twenty five created this situation where he had to answer
for something that wasn't his. And there's nothing he despises
more than kind of others speaking for him. So he's
(17:49):
not going to adopt it as a program. But the
policies could see their way into the administration in their
own way, on their own timeline.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
We talked a little bit also to about Susie Wiles,
who is his chief of staff. There's also been rumors
about other key positions. I know that Marco Rubio has
been mentioned in some circles in some reporting as a
potential Secretary of State nominee, and then also Linda McMahon
as the Secretary of Commerce. We also talked about Robert F.
Kennedy Junior. And now I see that Mike Pompeio is
potentially back in the news as Secretary of Defense. What
(18:19):
do you see his cabinet, Trump's cabinet really boiling down
to and then also do you see a place for
Elon Musk inside of that cabinet?
Speaker 2 (18:26):
And what would that look like.
Speaker 5 (18:28):
I don't see Elon Musk joining the cabinet. I see
Elon Musk as someone who's going to be very influential.
He has Trump's trust, he invested heavily in the campaign,
and people like Mike Pompeo who clashed with Trump observed
in the previous administration. I think they're all going to
get a look. Trump is not the kind of person
who holds grudges forever. He's just want to He wants
to see if people are loyal. Now, the most important
(18:48):
thing that Trump, I'm told, is the Department of Justice.
He wants to have a age who's not going to
be like Jeff Sessions and be someone who he believes
is not really on his side. And so I'm really
watching who he picks for CIA, DJ Justice, AG and
DHS is going to be important because Trump's proposing mass deportations,
(19:11):
which is pretty serious.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Now, another question I have in regards to, you know,
as far as Joe Biden is concerned. There's been conversation
amongst some circles as well about the effect of President
Joe Biden not stepping aside earlier in the primary processes,
rather in order to allow for an open Democratic primary.
I know's we don't like to talk about, you know,
generalities and kind of forecast here or look backwards. But
(19:34):
do you think it's possible that an open primary would
have affected the outcome of the election or do you
think that's just wishful thinking on the Democrats part?
Speaker 5 (19:42):
Oh, Democrats are going to have this fight for a
long time. Nancy Pelosi has been giving interviews saying she
really believes there should have been an open primary, that
that was part of her thought process. But I mean,
Joe Biden's allies have told me behind the scenes, what
was he.
Speaker 4 (19:56):
Supposed to do?
Speaker 5 (19:57):
I mean, he was going to endorse his vice president.
It shouldn't be surprising at people that he endorsed the
loyal person who was his number two, and he was
angry that he was being essentially forced out of the race.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
So you have this kind of.
Speaker 5 (20:14):
He could have gotten out after the twenty two midterms,
some Democrats tell me. But at the same time, Biden
people shoot back to me when I'm talking to the privately, Look,
he did better than everyone thought in the twenty twenty
two midterms, So why would he have left the White
House in the nomination fight after Democrats did far more better,
far better than expected in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
So it's just a strange.
Speaker 5 (20:34):
It's going to be a fight that's had for a
long time in terms of, you know, should Biden have
gotten out?
Speaker 4 (20:42):
And the Biden people are very defensive that.
Speaker 5 (20:44):
You know, these people who criticize Biden about the timing
of his announcement that they feel he would have beaten
Trump still, and so that's kind of the Biden defense
to this day is that they believe Joe Biden would
have beaten Trump even after that debate that went so bad.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Now we know, we talked a little bit about the
the Department of Justice, and I've seen some reports about
Special Counsel Jack Smith starting to wind down some of
the cases that are outstanding against Donald Trump. There's also
some state level cases. I know we're waiting for the sentencing,
and I believe it's the New York case as well.
What do you foresee happening with these cases, not just
with the special counsel but the state level cases. Do
(21:24):
you see them going away? Do you see them hitting
additional roadblocks? What do you think is the future of
all of his upcoming criminal cases?
Speaker 4 (21:33):
Well?
Speaker 5 (21:33):
The Justice Department has signaled that they're getting rid of
the cases on January sixth, that they're just not going
to be moving forward because the Justice Department has a
policy where you can't really prosecute the sitting president of
the United States because you'd be prosecuting your own boss,
and it would be complicated to have the head of
the Justice Department being investigated by the Justice Department and
prosecuted by the Justice Department. Now people would argue then
(21:57):
that means the president's immune from the law, But it's
been long standing Justice Department policy to not prosecute the
sitting president, and Trump being a former president made it possible,
so he was being prosecuted as a former president. But
it's also complicated now that Trump the Supreme Court rule
that presidents have immunity on what are called official acts
(22:18):
to some extent. So Trump now as president's going to
have a lot of executive power to do what he
wants to think through how he wants to use the presidency.
And it alarms some Democrats and excites some Republicans because
they believe that Trump's going to be unburdened by kind
(22:39):
of some legal questions of how much he can do that.
He can really use executive power to push forward his agenda,
and the Supreme Court Rulin essentially backs him up and
protects him from prosecution.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Now you're co author in the book Peril.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Bob Woodward just released a book recently called War, and
he's been doing some reporting in some interviews recently about
the book promotion of the book, and he gave specific
attention to President elect Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin,
and he says, quote, it seemed like it might be
black It seems like it might be blackmail.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
What do you think about that.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Quote based on your reporting, based upon mister Woodward's book,
And where do you see Trump and Putin's relationship going
in relation to maybe domestic international policy and specifically with Ukraine.
Speaker 5 (23:27):
You're looking at a presidency where foreign policy is going
to be again, as Trump calls it, America first or
non interventionists. And I can't speak to Trump's personal relationship
with Putin at this time. I don't have much reporting
on that, but I do know that Trump is telling
people behind the scenes that one of his first priorities,
if not the first priority, on foreign policy, is to
get Celensky to the negotiating table with Putin and to
(23:48):
cut a piece deal with Ukraine in Russia. Now, that
might mean that Ukraine will be unhappy with the contours
of that deal if it means giving over some land
of Russia or in some way conceding different parts of
the battlefield in order to end the war. But Trump
believes he has a mandate to spearhead those discussions and
(24:09):
ultimately brokeer a deal.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Now, I know you've been covering you know, President Electrump
for many years now, probably close to a decade, and
you know we were all around during the twenty sixteen presidency.
What do you foresee, based upon your reporting and based
upon your history with Trump, what can potentially people expect
from a second Trump presidency moving forward?
Speaker 5 (24:31):
You're looking at a paradigm shift presidency. Whereas Trump came
in and kind of cracked the window of how the
American presidency works. Now, this is something that could shatter
the window that the norms in which the presidency has
lived in for a long time. Is now dealing with
(24:52):
a seventy eight year old man who has an enormous
power based on the Supreme Court ruling, based on his
perception of his electoral mandate to come in and use
executive power along with congressional power thanks to what looks
like congressional majorities, to enact to sweeping agenda. You're looking
at mass deportations of migrants, sweeping tariffs across the board,
(25:16):
deregulation in countless federal agencies, the involvement of outside tech
titans like Elon Musk, outside figures like Robert F. Kennedy
Junior when it comes to healthcare. So, but Trump has
also learned a lot from his first time around. So
the chaos might not be as president in terms of personnel,
(25:38):
it could still be turbulent in terms of policy.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Robert cost I want to thank you again for your
time in joining us again on the show to break
down the election and everything that's coming. Where can listeners
keep up to date with all of your reporting and
keep up today with any news that you may have
coming out.
Speaker 5 (25:53):
Well, I'm at CBS and you can watch CBS Sunday
Morning or CBS Mornings or CBS Evening News Facination, among
other programs, CBS twenty four to seven streaming, and I
also am on social media on x Costa Reports and
beyond that.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
Just I'm always available if people have tips.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Robert Kossa, thank you so much for your time, Sorr,
I appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (26:20):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
This episode of Foundation Radio was hosted, recorded, and produced
by me Adam Barnard. Additional narration is provided by Sam Krepps.
The show is mixed and engineered by Carl Panell. The
show's intro music was arranged and produced by Carl Panell.
The show's outro music and all additional musical accompaniment was
arranged and produced by In Richmond. Followed the show on Instagram,
(26:56):
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