November 26, 2024 • 47 mins
Starting and growing a successful business takes more than just hard work—it requires strategic thinking and continuous learning. In this episode, we sit down with Jeff Stein, the founder of ELPS, a leading private investigative and security firm. Jeff shares his journey from law enforcement to entrepreneurship, giving valuable insights into the challenges and rewards of running a private investigation agency. We talk about everything from managing clients and navigating regulatory challenges to marketing strategies and building a strong team. Tune in to gain tips for growing your business, building client trust, and standing out in a competitive market.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dane Shoemaker (00:03):
Welcome back to another episode of the Shoemaker
Films podcast. I'm joined herewith Jeff Stein of ELPS Private
Detective Agency. Jeff, how areyou today?
Jeff Stein (00:12):
I am good. Thank you. Good morning and thanks for
having Yeah.
Dane Shoemaker (00:15):
Absolutely. So, transparency. We, were
fraternity brothers in the samefraternity, but this is actually
the first time we've ever met.So, pretty neat, network of of
people around the Philadelphiaarea at Westchester KDR. But,
you know, what you do, is so ispretty fascinating.
So I wanted to sit down and hearyour story, your entrepreneurial
(00:38):
journey, and get to know, youknow, get to know you a little
bit more and and your business.So
Jeff Stein (00:42):
I look forward to it.
Dane Shoemaker (00:43):
Yeah. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. So
tell us what what EOPS does.
Jeff Stein (00:49):
EOPS, private detective agency. We are a full
fledged, private investigativeand security firm.
Dane Shoemaker (00:56):
Got
Jeff Stein (00:56):
it. We provide all different types of
investigations and securityservices throughout really the
the tristate area. We focus onPennsylvania, but we're licensed
in Pennsylvania, New Jersey, andDelaware.
Dane Shoemaker (01:07):
Okay. And what are the what are the services
that you you guys offer?
Jeff Stein (01:14):
We. S do a lot of different services. Yeah.
Personally I specialize incriminal defense. Okay.
Investigations and riskassessments, expert witness
work. We have a full staff. Wedo different surveillances for
workers' comp, slip disabilitycase, personal injury cases,
(01:35):
residency investigations, thegamut. We do background checks.
We provide investigativeservices for both criminal and
civil cases, civil litigation.
We will interview, there couldbe a lawsuit working on a case
now where there's been somesexual assaults of, of minors.
(01:57):
So we're, we're working on the,the civil side of that. There's
already been a conviction, butnow they're working on the civil
side. So any, any type ofinvestigation, or security,
different types of services weprovide.
Dane Shoemaker (02:11):
Okay. Are are you mostly I guess, do do you
work do you both work withprivate, you know, corporations,
residences, but you also workwith, public sector, like law
enforcement. Okay. Or
Jeff Stein (02:24):
We don't necessarily partner with law enforcement. We
may, but it's not like we're anoutsource of Yeah. Of the law
enforcement. There could be amissing person's case or,
something of that nature wherewe're providing, the
investigative work for. Therethere was a recent shooting of a
school bus in Coatesville.
(02:45):
One of the defendants is one ofour clients trying to prove
that, you know, what hisinvolvement was or wasn't in in
that case. So in in that sense,we're sort of working a little
bit with trying to provide thethe facts from what we can
identify.
Dane Shoemaker (03:02):
Yeah.
Jeff Stein (03:03):
But we're not working with them. You know? In
in that case, probably workingagainst them. Yeah. But we do, I
do, federally appointed work, sothrough the courts.
So I have cases that I work onthat are through the CJA,
Department of Justice, andthat's funded by the government.
Okay. And those are usually,high profile federal cases,
(03:29):
definitely death penalty caseswhere the defendant is provided
legal service on behalf of thestate for their defense.
Dane Shoemaker (03:40):
Yep. Okay. Wow. And you founded this firm for
how long ago?
Jeff Stein (03:48):
2006
Dane Shoemaker (03:50):
Okay.
Jeff Stein (03:50):
Is is when this became a thought, and then, it
grew from there.
Dane Shoemaker (03:55):
Yeah. And what's your background?
Jeff Stein (03:59):
So my, my background is in little bit in law
enforcement, corporate security,loss prevention. Yeah. I've
worked my way up. I went to thepolice academy, I went to Seager
and then I went to the privatesector.
Dane Shoemaker (04:12):
Okay.
Jeff Stein (04:12):
I became a director of loss prevention security for
different retailers. Yeah. Andbeing a victim of mergers and
acquisitions. I decided to goout on my own, control my own
destiny. And I did, I havealways worked on the side even
when I was doing full timecareer since I was 19 years old
(04:34):
and working for a privateinvestigator
Dane Shoemaker (04:35):
Yeah.
Jeff Stein (04:36):
Part time, per diem.
Dane Shoemaker (04:38):
Do you have you know, you talked a little bit
about the types of clients thatyou serve. Do you have, you
know, the is there a the bulk ofyour business serving one type
of, sector or or client,offering with service? Or is it
really just pretty pretty broadspectrum of what you do day to
day?
Jeff Stein (04:58):
It varies. The they're we're providing right
now. We're doing around theclocks kind of a counter
surveillance slash securityexecutive protection for Okay.
There was a, an employeetermination, somebody that, was
(05:18):
going, they were concerned aboutthe risk or threat of that
person that they're terminating.So we're providing, security
around the clock for thatcompany, making sure the
employee, the terminatedemployee doesn't return.
Dane Shoemaker (05:30):
Okay.
Jeff Stein (05:31):
So that's a, you know, an individual company we
do work for, like I said, thedepartment of justice, the CJA
cases, attorneys, law firms arebig client of ours and then
private citizens. Inmates.Inmate. Yeah. Inmates are, a big
source as well.
Really? And then retail chainsfor on the security side of
(05:54):
things.
Dane Shoemaker (05:54):
Yep. Yep. And do you have do you have w two
employees? Are these, you know,what does that look like here?
The organization?
Jeff Stein (06:02):
Yes. All employees. We have currently, we're up to
50, 55 employees. Okay. Oh, wow.
And, every now and then, we maysub something out for a 10.99 to
another private investigator.
Dane Shoemaker (06:16):
Okay.
Jeff Stein (06:16):
If we're just overstaffed, or not overstaffed,
our, our caseload gets prettydemanding. I know we, we have
another case right now thatwe're working on that we subbed
some of the workout to somebodywe use on a regular basis, but
Yeah. For the most part, they'reall actual employees.
Dane Shoemaker (06:36):
And are these mostly detectives,
investigators, security guards?Like, what are the types of
what's the makeup of your
Jeff Stein (06:43):
business, I guess? Good portion is security. And
then, I have a small crew forthe investigations Okay. And
surbalances, office manager,security supervisor.
Dane Shoemaker (06:54):
Mhmm.
Jeff Stein (06:54):
So it's it's diversified.
Dane Shoemaker (06:57):
So every you know, just what are kind of the
top trends right now in, youknow, the security world? What
are clients asking you? Youknow, what do they come to ask
you about? What are you talkingto about with clients?
Jeff Stein (07:10):
Well, there's 2 different sides of that. Yeah.
Because there's theinvestigative side, and then
there's the security side. So ifwe break that down from the
investigative side, it's reallyit's a gamut. We do, as I
mentioned, criminal defenseinvestigations, cheating
spouses, cohabitation cases.
(07:31):
Cohabitation cases seem to be onthe rise, based on. A couple
getting divorced and how theirdivorce decree reads and
Dane Shoemaker (07:41):
yeah,
Jeff Stein (07:42):
you know, who's living with who. So the
cohabitation child custodycases, We do a lot of residency
investigations for schooldistricts.
Dane Shoemaker (07:50):
Okay.
Jeff Stein (07:51):
For example, student says they're living in this.
Neighborhood, but they're livingsomewhere in a different school
district and being dropped off.So we provide that to school
districts On the security side,there's, corporations buildings.
We do, high end offices, andthen we do residential. We do
(08:12):
apartment buildings, bowlingalley, some Wawa's, Lowe's,
Trader Joe's.
Dane Shoemaker (08:18):
Okay. So anybody that needs security, any, you
know, high risk retailenvironments, you're you have a
security guard there.
Jeff Stein (08:25):
Correct. Special events. We do the Devon horse
show Okay.
Dane Shoemaker (08:28):
On a
Jeff Stein (08:28):
regular basis. So there's some other special
events too. High holidays,different, houses of worship
during, you know, differentholidays. Yeah. The election, we
got asked to do a security fornews media, as they're they're
staging on the streets.
Obviously, protect them, protecttheir equipment, and so forth.
(08:51):
Right. So very diversified andand depending on what's going
on, in in the country.
Dane Shoemaker (08:56):
Yeah. Yeah. And no shortage of crazy people out
there also. For sure. Yep.
Yeah. So it sounds like thatkeeps you busy. There's a
variety of different things.There's no no typical day. Or or
is it, you know, is there a dayto day?
I mean, what does your typicalday look like if there is one?
(09:17):
You know?
Jeff Stein (09:18):
Yeah. There is no typical day, which is Yeah.
Which is what I enjoy aboutthis. Yeah. Although, you know,
as, in in the position of of Thecompany.
I gotta deal with a lot ofadministrative issues. Selling
the services, dealing withlicensing, making sure the
licenses are up to dateinsurance is up to date. Okay.
(09:41):
So there's a lot of corporateadministrative tasks that are
needed.
Dane Shoemaker (09:47):
Yeah.
Jeff Stein (09:47):
Payroll, dealing with different issues as they
arise. Client has a, an, a newneed, a new concern need to deal
with that. Phone's alwaysringing, which is a good thing.
Yeah. Otherwise I'm out in thefield doing investigations,
talking to witnesses, trying tofind witnesses.
Dane Shoemaker (10:06):
Yeah.
Jeff Stein (10:06):
And just prove the facts Right. Whether they're
right, wrong, or indifferent,you know, we're just gonna
report what we find.
Dane Shoemaker (10:12):
Yeah. Yeah. I imagine, you know, 50 employees.
I mean, you're you're busy doingthe the the CEO task. Right?
You know? Yeah. Do do you have apartner in the business, or is
it just
Jeff Stein (10:23):
No. Yep.
Dane Shoemaker (10:26):
But
Jeff Stein (10:26):
I be lost without my operations manager or my office
manager, Mike. He he does a lot.He's interviewing. We're
interviewing on a regular basis,so he's trying to backfill and
fill in what we need in futureopenings. So Yeah.
I'd be lost without him.
Dane Shoemaker (10:42):
Yeah. That's good. Who who was your first
hire? If you don't mind measking, go back. What was the
role that you hired for first, Iguess?
Jeff Stein (10:52):
Armed security during Black Friday, during the
holidays. Yeah. That wasprobably the first employees
that I I officially hired. Aswell as interns, I take on an
intern. I started probably 15years ago taking interns from
(11:15):
west Chester university.
Oh, wow. Somebody I knew theirbrother was graduating, but
needed an internship and excuseme, west Chester university's
criminal justice program. Theyrequire to graduate all of their
students to do a practicum,which is 12 credits.
Dane Shoemaker (11:35):
Okay.
Jeff Stein (11:35):
And it's the, usually their summer before
their, their senior year. Sojunior into senior, if they,
meet some of their requirementsand take some classes early,
they can do it sophomore intojunior year. But in any case
they're required to work, 37 anda half hours for 12 weeks. Okay.
So I started doing that programtaking on intern about 15 years
(11:59):
ago.
And I do that as a hybrid.They're partially paid and
partially not depending if we'redoing billable time, billable
hours and so forth. And that wasprobably one of my other first
hires was that that intern. Andthat program has since evolved
with interns. And this pastyear, past summer, we had 7
(12:22):
interns from 4 differentschools.
Okay. So it was it was ainteresting time.
Dane Shoemaker (12:29):
It worked out really well. For all at one
time?
Jeff Stein (12:32):
All at one time. Wow. Yeah.
Dane Shoemaker (12:33):
And how does that pro I mean, are you doing a
lot of training and, or is itmostly on the job shadowing, or
what does that look like, theactual program?
Jeff Stein (12:41):
Combination of everything. So there there is
training, letting, you know,educating them about security,
about investigations, havingthem work on live cases, real
cases, reviewing case files, andthen security, put them in, in
security roles, train them to dosecurity and surances. Yeah. And
(13:04):
they're out there doing, doingwork, doing surances, up to
whatever we feel theircapabilities are. So they're,
they, it's a good opportunityfor them to see a lot of what's
going on in the criminal justicefield before they decide where
they wanna go.
Dane Shoemaker (13:21):
Yeah. Do a lot of them do they become cops? Do
they go into the private sector?Like, is it kind of a mix? Or
have you ever hired any rightout of college?
Jeff Stein (13:30):
Yeah.
Dane Shoemaker (13:30):
Full time?
Jeff Stein (13:31):
I do. In, in fact, Mike, my office manager, he
originally was scheduled, toslotted to do an internship with
me
Dane Shoemaker (13:41):
Okay.
Jeff Stein (13:41):
The 1st year of COVID. And then that COVID
happened, and they weren'tallowing their students to do in
person.
Dane Shoemaker (13:48):
Okay.
Jeff Stein (13:48):
Internships. So I ended up hiring him part time
and he worked as well into fulltime.
Dane Shoemaker (13:52):
Oh, that's great.
Jeff Stein (13:53):
So I do, And where they end up. I, I, a lot of
them, in various fields, thevery first one that I mentioned,
he ended up becoming a financialplanner. So he didn't, he didn't
stay with criminal justice,
Dane Shoemaker (14:10):
different type of securities, right?
Jeff Stein (14:12):
Yes, exactly. But most of them do go into law
enforcement. I know I've peoplein, in municipal law
enforcement, state troopers,several that go into the
military, one, who justgraduated from the coast guard
or just finishing his 4 years inthe coast guard. Right out of,
(14:33):
being an intern, he went intothe coast guard and now he's
gonna be leaving the coast guardafter 4 years in December and
going right into the policeacademy for Atlantic city. Okay.
New Jersey. So we have, we'vehad people go into the attorney
General's office, bank bankfraud and security, various
Okay. Others, law school, othersjust didn't stay in the
(14:57):
profession for one reason oranother.
Dane Shoemaker (14:59):
Yep. Are there certifications that, you know,
people need to get or that youneed to get or self defense
training or anything like that?Like
Jeff Stein (15:08):
there is, and it depends on what you do. It
depends on your role.Pennsylvania is not where I
would like it to be right now.Pennsylvania is governed by the
private detective act of 1953,which is antiquated. It needs to
be, we, we, when I say we, II'm, past president of the, the
(15:33):
Pennsylvania association oflicensed investigators.
And in the past we haverewritten the law. It made its
way to, to the house. Didn't goto the other side. So it really
needs to be. Improved inPennsylvania.
It doesn't require any trainingfor security now in New Jersey,
for example, in Delaware, wherewe're licensed as well, you need
(15:55):
to have security guard training.Okay. New Jersey. I happen to be
an instructor it's called thesoar instructor and it's, the
initial class is 40 hours of, ofsecurity training. Okay.
Actually, excuse me, it's 24,it's 24 hours, the initial
class, but everybody's requiredto take that. And every 2 years
they need to, do a, an 8 hourrecertification. So we try to, I
(16:20):
try to, do that with myemployees the best I can.
Dane Shoemaker (16:23):
Yeah.
Jeff Stein (16:24):
But Pennsylvania doesn't require that. Okay. For
me, there's a lot of differentcertifications that I get to
advance my CV and my,capabilities Mhmm. With risk
assessments, threat assessments.There's, a board certified
criminal defense investigator,board accredited investigator.
(16:45):
So there's a lot ofcertification programs out
there. And, I'm a proponent ofcontinuing to learn Sure. Get
educated.
Dane Shoemaker (16:54):
Yep. Yeah. That's good. I mean, that's
that's good for your clientstoo. I mean, you're just
continuously improving Right.
You know, staying on top of newmethodologies or trends and
staying staying sharp. So
Jeff Stein (17:06):
Very true. Yep.
Dane Shoemaker (17:11):
So, you know, where do you so you mentioned a
little bit about, you know,inbound request selling. I mean,
do you do much marketing or, youknow, outreach to businesses?
What does that part of thebusiness look like as a
marketing person? Like, I'malways curious what what
businesses are doing to kindaget their name out there.
Jeff Stein (17:31):
I I currently spend a decent amount of money on
marketing in differentplatforms. There's some local,
magazines, that we advertise andmarket in. Yeah. We've do,
social media, a lot of onlinepresence. There are some public,
(17:53):
or professional trade magazinesthat, PI magazine that we've
advertised in that we've beenauthors in, written material
for, belonging to a lot ofdifferent associations.
And networking with them. Yeah.Marketing my firm to those
different associations from justbeing, being a member or
(18:16):
attending conferences.
Dane Shoemaker (18:17):
Yeah.
Jeff Stein (18:18):
Or writing for a newsletter or asking questions
or putting something out thereon their listservs or LinkedIn.
I'll do a lot of PSAs, publicservice announcements or white
papers, you know, and post themon LinkedIn and other social
media platforms. With all thatbeing said, though, in, in my
(18:38):
profession, I do find thatword-of-mouth is probably the
best. We, we do some mailings aswell. We do some postcards and
very little return oninvestment.
But as you know, you need totouch people in different ways.
Yeah. We have gotten work fromfrom the postcard mailing. So if
(18:59):
you get a little bit, it canhurt.
Dane Shoemaker (19:01):
Sure.
Jeff Stein (19:02):
But just word-of-mouth, inmates, for
example, talk to each other.Right? They're they're they're
cellmates. They're in prison 247together. They share our
information.
Attorneys share our information.Yeah. You do a good job for 1
attorney and, you know, somebodyelse calls and they have a need
that is just, yeah, probably oneof the, one of the best things
we can do. We do. Advertisethrough some other online yellow
(19:27):
pages, if you will, for privateinvestigators.
Dane Shoemaker (19:30):
Okay.
Jeff Stein (19:30):
So there are some specific ones out there. PI now,
for example, is one of those. Sowe we try to market in some of
those. So your your website, youwant your web to be seen? Yeah.
Google rankings. Yeah. I guessyour, your rankings,
Dane Shoemaker (19:46):
a lot of backlinks, the presence on the
website. Yeah.
Jeff Stein (19:49):
Yeah. So PI now is if you Google like private
investigator in Westchester.
Dane Shoemaker (19:54):
Okay.
Jeff Stein (19:54):
My company's gonna come up, but it may also come up
through PI now because of alltheir, all of their analytics
and spiders they're putting outthere, to improve their Google
rankings.
Dane Shoemaker (20:06):
Okay. So you're not, you're not on like
Craigslist, right?
Jeff Stein (20:10):
You know what? In the past, I'll be honest with
you. And if we have some furtherconversational little bit later,
I did advertise on Craigslist.
Dane Shoemaker (20:18):
Yeah.
Jeff Stein (20:19):
My services and I did pick up a few jobs, but I
haven't advertised on Craigslistin 10 years at least. But when I
first started, it was freeadvertising. Sure. And
Dane Shoemaker (20:29):
I I thought there there was a there was a TV
show on HBO years ago. I thinkthe actor's Jason Schwartzman.
He's basically like a strugglingwriter, and he decided one day
he wanna be a privateinvestigator, and he posted on
Craigslist. And the whole TVshow was, like, one season. It
was just him going on thesecrazy adventures in New York
City, like, investigatingthings.
(20:49):
So
Jeff Stein (20:50):
Interesting.
Dane Shoemaker (20:51):
Yeah. I'll have to find the remember the name of
it.
Jeff Stein (20:56):
There was, Comcast used to do a show in different
locations called Private Eyes.
Dane Shoemaker (21:05):
Okay.
Jeff Stein (21:05):
And it was real private investigators. And I was
featured they featured severalof my cases on there, at one
point, before they they justdiscontinued. It was one of
those Something that Comcast,like on demand.
Dane Shoemaker (21:23):
Okay.
Jeff Stein (21:23):
So it wasn't, a regular series, but you can go
to, at that time, you can go toComcast and do on demand private
eyes and see private eye inChicago or Lancaster or
Pennsylvania or oh, wow. WestChester, Pennsylvania. And they
featured me on, on their casesand, on some of my cases and it
was pretty neat because they'rereenacting my cases and filming.
(21:46):
Oh, that's
Dane Shoemaker (21:46):
pretty cool.
Jeff Stein (21:47):
Yeah. In Philadelphia, for example.
Dane Shoemaker (21:49):
Yeah.
Jeff Stein (21:49):
You know, looking for somebody in some back alleys
and it was, it was my first timeon TV. And since then, 2 of my
other cases have been featuredas well.
Dane Shoemaker (21:58):
Oh, really?
Jeff Stein (21:59):
I, I had one case featured on the ID channel.
Dane Shoemaker (22:01):
Okay.
Jeff Stein (22:02):
And another one on CNN death row stories. Oh, wow.
Got some good TV time. That'scool. And and let me tell you,
that's great advertising.
Dane Shoemaker (22:09):
Sure.
Jeff Stein (22:10):
Everybody's saying that.
Dane Shoemaker (22:11):
Do you do any, like, PR stuff, like getting on
the news, talking about, youknow, security trends or
Jeff Stein (22:20):
Not as much as I would like. Yeah. Okay. That's
something I would like to domore, and and that's something
that I will put out on, like Isaid, social media as a public
service announcement. I've beenfeatured on Fox news online, one
of my articles in the past.
Okay. But I would definitelylike to do a little more. Okay.
(22:41):
Have that opportunity.
Dane Shoemaker (22:42):
Sure.
Jeff Stein (22:42):
Yeah. So for anyone who's listening, you need a, a
subject matter expert in a lotof different security
investigative roles. I'd love tolove to chat. I, I know I've, I
recently wrote an article as I,I was telling you about, How
antiquated Pennsylvania is withtheir private detective act.
(23:03):
Right.
And part of that is there's nowe are the only profession. I
don't wanna sidetrack this toomuch, but private investigators
are the only profession thatrequires a license in the state
of Pennsylvania that isn'tlicensed at Harrisburg. So we
have to petition the court, thethe county on where you where
(23:26):
you're gonna office or where youlive to get your PI license. And
the problem with that is there's67 different counties in
Pennsylvania, which is open tointerpretation of the law, 60 7
different ways. And there's,clerks, the clerk of courts who
sort of oversees that andfunnels it up to the district
(23:47):
attorney.
Okay. But they're, they're anelected position that could
change every 4 years. So theydon't necessarily even always
understand the program. Andanyway, long story short, I
wrote an article about that and,I was trying to get it submitted
to some of the, newspapers andPI magazine picked it up. So
it's going to be featured in PImagazine first.
(24:08):
Oh, great. I just hopeHarrisburg reads it because some
things need to change and thataffects, you know, unlicensed
security, companies, especiallyin Philadelphia. Yeah. It was a
big problem with that. You know,they're not licensed means
they're not insured.
And some of these companies maynot realize that. Okay. Anyway
Dane Shoemaker (24:29):
So there's risks with that. There's, you know,
liability potentially withcompanies that hire these
unlicensed companies. Right?Yeah.
Jeff Stein (24:37):
Very true. And and another problem, Pennsylvania's
constables. Constables get hiredfrequently by other, let's say a
retailer hires a constable.That's not their job. They're
not licensed to do that.
The constable is an electedposition to do work for the
courts. And for example, onelection, they can, they can
(24:58):
provide security for the, thevoting polls. Right? Okay.
That's one of their roles, butthey're not licensed to provide
armed security at a retaillocation, but they do.
And I'm just waiting forsomething to happen and they're
gonna get sued. The retailer'sgonna get sued or named in that
liability lawsuit. Yeah. Andthey're gonna have no insurance
(25:20):
to defend them on this Constablebecause the constable is not
licensed. They're insured toprovide that service.
So Yeah. It's a big problem inPennsylvania, and hopefully,
that'll get fixed one day
Dane Shoemaker (25:31):
Yeah. Before I retire. That's Yeah. That I
mean, that's a really importantreason why, you know, a company,
a big retailer, or anybodyshould be working with a, you
know, established firm like likeyou guys. So Yeah.
Are there a lot of, I'll callthem, I guess, competing, you
know, agencies? Are there a lotin the area, you know, that you
(25:53):
compete with or, you know, howdo you differentiate yourselves
from maybe other PI services?
Jeff Stein (25:59):
There are quite a few in Pennsylvania. There's
there's a lot in Chester County.I don't really view private
investigators, privateinvestigation companies, firms
as competition. There's so muchwork out there.
Dane Shoemaker (26:13):
Yeah.
Jeff Stein (26:13):
Especially when you do some, some niche work in
criminal defense, for example,or somebody may do accident
reconstruction or somebody justmay like to do surveillance and
that's all they like to do.Right. And we get a lot of work
from other private investigationcompanies.
Dane Shoemaker (26:27):
Okay.
Jeff Stein (26:28):
And same thing, you know, we we, give out, we may
get a request for something inNew York where we're not
licensed and I'm gonna reach outto a colleague in New York to,
to handle that job. So I don't,I don't feel the competition
from the, the PI sector. Yeah.They're most of them in this
(26:49):
area. I know I'm friends with,we refer work to each other.
We'll, you know, bounce ideasoff of each other and there's,
there's for any good privateinvestigation firm. There's a
lot of work out there. Yeah.Just, just like there are how
many criminal defense attorneysare there? Family law attorneys
in Chester county alone.
And I'm sure most of them arebusy.
Dane Shoemaker (27:10):
Yeah. Right.
Jeff Stein (27:11):
So as long as you're doing a good job on the security
side, we have a lot ofcompetition and in, in the inner
cities, there's a lot of, like Imentioned, unlicensed companies,
that, that pop up. And then,there are some of the big, big
companies, Allied Universal andsome of the other big players
that they just come in lowball,and it's hard to hard to compete
(27:35):
with their with their prices.Right. Right. But our services
and personnel are gonna be at ahigher level.
Yeah. We're we're paying ouremployees more. And those are
things that you need to factorin, you know, when you're
talking to different clients.
Dane Shoemaker (27:51):
Yeah. And the training that you do. I mean,
you Yeah. You do you basicallytake it the next level up to
what what Pennsylvania requires.Yeah.
Jeff Stein (27:58):
Right.
Dane Shoemaker (27:59):
So that's great. Any stories you wanna share?
Just kinda I know it's asensitive sensitive what you
guys do and confidentiality andthings like that, but I think, I
think about like, my wife and Ilisten to a lot of true crime
podcasts. And so I think peopleare just fascinated with this
world, but I know there's not alot for you probably can share.
(28:21):
But
Jeff Stein (28:21):
Yes. So there's there's a lot of cases, a lot of
things, that are interesting.
Dane Shoemaker (28:30):
Yeah.
Jeff Stein (28:31):
I do need to be careful. I can't reveal, you
know, and need to keep it,confidential as far as who the
clients are, what some of thecases may have been about. Some
people, there was a high highprofile case in Philadelphia
that involved a famous singerstour manager who was killed, and
(28:52):
we worked on that case. And Iwish I can share all the details
on that. Yeah.
There there are a few that, Ican touch on. Cabani Savage,
that was one of the largestcases in in the United States,
southeastern district ofPennsylvania, which is it was a
federal case. There was a RICOcharges against Cabani and 3
(29:16):
other codefendants. So there wastotal of 4 codefendants, and
they were charged withfirebombing, a house killing
witnesses. 6 people perished inin that house fire.
And it was a really interestingcase. I was assigned to Kadata,
(29:38):
Kabani's sister, who was alsoone of the people charged in
this. And Okay. The what I findinteresting is there was a a
federal witness who, who becamea federal witness for the FBI
Okay. And for for the federalthe US attorney's office.
And he was known to have killed11 people. They knew of the 11
(30:01):
people that he killed. He waspart of that firebombing. Yeah.
He he did the firebombing.
So that's 6 and then there was 5more that the government knew
about. And there was another onethat I knew about. So 12 people,
this guy killed. Wow. And thegovernment made a deal with him
to testify against these other 4people.
And for that deal, he gotsentenced to 40 years in federal
(30:22):
prison that does not include histime served during this whole
process. So he got credit forthe 8, 9, 10 years. He was
already in jail. And for federalcases, I want to say it's you
only need to serve or forfederal convictions, you only
need to serve 80 or 85% of thattime. So this guy who killed 12
(30:43):
people is going to get out ofjail in 20 something years, But
yet there's other people kill 1person, they get sentenced to
life in prison Yeah.
Without parole or to the deathpenalty.
Dane Shoemaker (30:54):
So Right. Wow.
Jeff Stein (30:56):
I I guess it's something interesting that the
government viewed. We'd ratherget these other 4 people and cut
him a deal, and that's what theydid.
Dane Shoemaker (31:06):
Yeah. You know, maximize, you know, what you
can, I guess? You know?
Jeff Stein (31:09):
Right. Yeah. I I Wow. There there's, the Zach
Whitman was a juvenile lifer whowas, convicted of killing his
brother back in I wanna say itwas 199098, 96, or 98. Zach was
15 years old at the time, andhis brother Gregory was 13.
(31:34):
And he was convicted of,stabbing him a 104 times and
partially decapitating him. Idon't believe that he did this.
I worked, on his defense afterthe, the, the post conviction
relief act, trying to get him anew trial. But during that time,
there was a documentary that wasa crew, a film crew that was
(31:56):
working on this case and doing adocumentary and what had
happened. I got a witness whocalled in originally, but it was
never followed up on 25 yearsago, 30 years ago.
And that person lives inTennessee. We flew out to
Tennessee to interview her andshe identified a person of
interest on somebody who mayhave been responsible for
(32:20):
killing Greg. And right at thesame time, the the courts
decided, that it wasunconstitutional to convict a
juvenile to life without parolebecause their brain isn't
developed till they're 21 yearsold. So sentencing somebody who
was 15 at the time, for a crimethat they committed, they feel
(32:43):
that their brain didn't developand they shouldn't be have that
harsh of a penalty. So alljuvenile lifers, and Zach was
one of them, had to beresentenced to, to be able to
get out of jail, or or a newsentence, which isn't life.
And at the same time that thisdocumentary was being done and I
(33:04):
was being interviewed andidentified somebody else, they
offered him to admit that he didit and he'll get out of jail out
of prison in 6 months. Now hewas 15 when this happened, he
didn't go to, court until he wasalmost 21 years old. And then he
got sentenced to life withoutparole. So, basically from 15
(33:28):
until he was released, he was,34 or 30, I think 34 years old
when he was finally released.But because the, the court said
where the DA's office, made adeal with him proffered that
admit that you did this andwe'll charge it from, from,
felony 1 to a felony 3, ahomicide, murder.
(33:52):
And you'll get out in 6 months,which he did.
Dane Shoemaker (33:54):
Wow.
Jeff Stein (33:55):
So that was a interesting case. I still don't
think that he did it. I went andtalked to the person, after he
got out of jail. So we didn'twanna interfere with that
process.
Dane Shoemaker (34:08):
Yeah.
Jeff Stein (34:09):
And I went with the film crew, who was covert and
stayed in the truck, but I wentwith one of my investigators and
I accused this person ofcommitting being responsible for
the murder of, of Greg Whitman.And he continued to talk to me
and bring me into his home andshow me around his property for
almost an hour. And I find thatreally odd. If somebody accused
(34:32):
me, came to my house and knockedon my door and said, I think
you're responsible for JohnDoe's murder. I'd tell him to
get the blank out of here.
Right? Or, you know, get off myproperty. I'm I'm not talking to
you. And this gentleman justcontinued to talk and introduced
me to his wife that way. It wasjust odd.
I still feel that he isresponsible for this. So
Dane Shoemaker (34:55):
Was it was this out in Lancaster area?
Jeff Stein (34:59):
No. No. This is not. Yeah. York York County.
York County. York.
Dane Shoemaker (35:03):
Okay. I I feel like I've heard I've heard about
this story. I I the documentaryis out now. Right?
Jeff Stein (35:07):
It's called The Whitman's.
Dane Shoemaker (35:08):
The Whitman's. And I've heard this story
before.
Jeff Stein (35:11):
Yeah. Yeah. It's called The Whitman's. You can
Google it and find it on the IDchannel. Yeah.
And it the the documentary thatcame out wasn't what was
originally intended it to beabout. It was really the
original documentary, and and Ibelieve they're still hoping
this becomes a Netflix series orsomething. Yeah. But, it started
(35:32):
with some, college students whostarted their own company and
they started this as a project.And then it, it continued to
grow and it got sold to somedifferent companies and the
company that finally picked itup sort of changed it to make it
more about the family of some ofa juvenile who sentenced to life
in prison without parole.
(35:53):
Yeah. So it was reallydiscussing more of the family
versus the whether he was guiltyor innocent, which which was
fine, but, hopefully, there'llbe another documentary about it.
Dane Shoemaker (36:04):
I can't imagine you lose both your sons,
basically. You know? Yeah.
Jeff Stein (36:08):
And I'm still in touch with the family, and and
it was it was very hard on onthe parents
Dane Shoemaker (36:14):
because I can't imagine.
Jeff Stein (36:15):
On in one day, they're they really just lost
the 13 year old and a 15 yearold.
Dane Shoemaker (36:19):
Yeah. You know, just just any other tips that
you might have for businessowners, you know, just as far
from, like, a security stand.Like, just maybe everyday things
that people should be aware of,you know, things like that.
Jeff Stein (36:32):
Starting a business?
Dane Shoemaker (36:33):
No. More so from the security standpoint. I'm
just thinking. Yeah. I we'llwe'll cut that question in 2.
Like, from your expertisestandpoint, you know, should a
business owner be thinking aboutthings, you know, other security
things that they should beworried about or
Jeff Stein (36:49):
A business a business owner, somebody who's
starting a business and someconcerns, security concerns,
yeah, business concerns.
Dane Shoemaker (36:58):
Do you see frequent things that that people
miss or
Jeff Stein (37:03):
They do. I think Yeah. You know, most new
businesses don't survive the 1st18 months. Yeah. Most new
businesses, don't survive the1st year to 2 years because of
employee theft.
There's there's so much employeetheft and misconduct that
there's a lot of retailers ifthey don't have the right
(37:23):
security in place. And when Isay security, not just physical
security, we're, we're providingthem, you know, security guards,
but security plans, how to, howto count their money at night,
how to audit their register,look for fraudulent activity
that may have occurred. Peoplestealing time, you know, there,
(37:44):
we we've done work and this isagain, a tip for other people,
but you know, so many people,somebody goes out on a workers'
comp case or a disability case,because they, they claim they
got hurt or injured on the jobor, or make up things that may
have happened. Insurancecompanies pay that out. The
workers' comp just pays it outvery little.
(38:04):
There's a small percentage thatare actually investigated. And,
and we do a lot of them forthose insurance companies and
law firms, but we can get hiredand, and have been hired
directly by the, by the businessbecause they have somebody who
they suspect is is out doingsomething they shouldn't be
(38:25):
doing. Yeah. Yeah. We we had onethat, they were paying, he, he
suffered a serious heartcondition.
They were continuing to pay himas he was allegedly recuperating
and he was working. He wassinging in a rock band, at the
Trocadero in Philadelphia. And II had covert video of him
(38:46):
picking up all the heavyequipment and and whatnot.
Dane Shoemaker (38:49):
Yeah. Yeah.
Jeff Stein (38:50):
Oh, wow. Yeah. We have, we we had others that
people go out on unemploymentbecause their employer
terminates them and then theythey dispute that claim. We had
one guy who kept calling out andso many excuses was using that,
his, his mother died of cancer,that his daughter had a
(39:10):
miscarriage and we started doingour investigation. We found the
mother to be alive.
We even delivered flowers toher. She was a cancer survivor
and we have video of my staffdelivering flowers to her,
saying that, you know, you're,you're a cancer survivor and on
behalf of the Cancer Foundation,you know, here's flowers. His
daughter did have the baby.There was never a miscarriage,
(39:33):
but he was just calling outsick. So, you know, we can help
defend companies like that withworkers' comp.
But those things all attributeto lack of funds, lack of money,
and going out of business.
Dane Shoemaker (39:45):
Yeah. Bottom hit impacting the bottom line. Yeah.
Sure. Yeah.
Employee is really one of thebiggest expenses that most
businesses will
Jeff Stein (39:52):
Unfortunately. Yeah. Yeah. That they are.
Dane Shoemaker (39:55):
Yeah. Before we wrap up, just kind of, you know,
in your journey of building thiscompany, like, any anything that
you've taken away, maybe a bigchallenge you ran into that you
were able to overcome or anyadvice for people starting a
business or or running onetoday?
Jeff Stein (40:09):
Yes. In in fact, I normally I I give a class to new
private investigators called PI101. You got your you got your
license. Now what?
Dane Shoemaker (40:19):
Yeah.
Jeff Stein (40:19):
And it's it's kind of like giving advice to them.
And and the same thing you justasked me is, I would recommend
anyone who's starting a businessthat they can work start growing
and working on that businesswhile they're still employed or
have another job. Mhmm. Becausestarting it, unless you have the
financial support, family orinvestments, banks, whatever,
(40:43):
it's difficult to get startedbecause there's a big expense
that people don't realize you,whether you need certain
certifications or licenses, butyou also need to register. You
need to become an LLC or a, asole proprietor or an s corp,
whatever.
Dane Shoemaker (40:59):
Yep.
Jeff Stein (41:00):
So how do you do that? You know, now do you need
to pay an attorney to help youwith that process? You need to
start marketing yourself. Youneed to get insurance, make sure
you're insured and, justbusiness cards and designing
your business cards. And, one ofthe mistakes I made when I first
started is I my my very firstbusiness card I created and
(41:21):
printed myself.
You can go to Staples and buythe perforated
Dane Shoemaker (41:25):
Sure.
Jeff Stein (41:25):
Business card, templates and, you know, I do
stock photos. And, you know,when I look back, it was the
ugliest, cheapest piece of junk,you know, I've ever done.
Dane Shoemaker (41:37):
Yeah.
Jeff Stein (41:37):
And then I ordered from Vistaprint, and I ordered
the free business cards. And I'mnot bashing. Vistaprint does a
great job, but on the freecards, it says on the back of
it, they're free cards andthey're they're smaller than
your normal business card.
Dane Shoemaker (41:50):
Yeah.
Jeff Stein (41:51):
So invest the money. And I think that's a big thing
if you're trying to be cheap ortake shortcuts. I understand
money's tight, but do it rightthe first time because I've done
it so many different times. I'veI've changed, different logos
over the years and try torebrand a little bit. And every
time you do that, it costsmoney.
(42:12):
But invest in having, a graphicdesigner or professional do it.
Yeah. Some stuff you can, sortof sub out to Fiverr, and and
use Fiverr a little bit or someother things. But find that
person that can create nicebrochures, professional looking
brochures, not things that youprint yourself and fold. So just
(42:37):
starting while you have somemoney Yeah.
And and building that baselineof that business because it's
it's a challenge and it's noteasy and growing your clientele,
your customer base is isdifficult until you have been
doing it for so long and youhave residual clients coming
back or residual income comingin, as well as when you're doing
(43:03):
something for the first timepeople wanna reference, well,
can I see some of the work thatyou've done or talk to somebody?
And when you have nothing toshow them, it's, it's difficult.
Dane Shoemaker (43:12):
Yeah. So
Jeff Stein (43:12):
you need to start off and then you get that
word-of-mouth. And, I thinkthat's one of the biggest
things. Just don't takeshortcuts. Do it right the first
time. Yeah.
So when you gotta redo it 5times, you just paid, you know,
5 times the money if you wouldhave just spent that money on on
the, initial setup.
Dane Shoemaker (43:31):
I think that's I think that's good advice, you
know. Yeah. Perception'sreality. It's how how people,
you know, interact with youryour business and your and your
brand is is critical. Yeah.
Jeff Stein (43:42):
Yeah. So Yeah. Learn from my mistakes. So I've I've
done all them and I spent a lotof money and you learn as you
go. You know, find out what someof the industry standards are
and best practices and, youknow, even things like
QuickBooks.
You know, if if you're not usingQuickBooks and you're you're
trying to do it for years, Iwhen I was doing my taxes at the
(44:05):
end of the year, I'd spent hoursbecause I'm I'm taking all the
receipts. And now I gotta logeach receipt and figure out, you
know, what category it goes in.And, I just, I didn't, I didn't
know, nobody taught me.
Dane Shoemaker (44:18):
Right. There
Jeff Stein (44:19):
was nobody said Jeff, this, how you should do it
until you learn or network andtalk to other people. And, you
know, then you trans transitionto QuickBooks and everything's
your bank accounts are linkedand your credit cards are
linked. There's nothing to do.You just approve it. You know,
it's
Dane Shoemaker (44:33):
it Right. Right.
Jeff Stein (44:33):
Makes that process or hire a bookkeeper, which I've
done in the past, You know?Yeah. Have an accountant, have
somebody who knows what whatthey're doing to help recommend,
you know, you take the rightsteps.
Dane Shoemaker (44:43):
Yeah. I mean, you you can't learn a lot of
this stuff in in schools. Youknow? They don't really teach
entrepreneurship. They don't youknow?
So, yeah, you kinda have tofigure it out.
Jeff Stein (44:53):
Yes. Yeah. So talk to other business owners. Yeah.
You know?
There's there's groups from BNInetworking groups to the Chamber
of Commerce. There's there's alot of different things out
there. Yeah. But network andtalk to other, other people,
people wanna help, you know,there's, I think there's,
there's a lot of people willingto sit down like we are and have
(45:13):
this conversation, help mentorsomebody. Sure.
The SBA, the small businessadministration
Dane Shoemaker (45:20):
Yeah.
Jeff Stein (45:20):
They have some free webinars and training that are
pretty good too. And and I neverpaid attention to any of them.
Right. 20 years later, I'mtaking these classes and, you
know, just still trying to tolearn what I can.
Dane Shoemaker (45:32):
That's good. Yeah. Always been proven. Yeah.
Jeff Stein (45:34):
Yeah.
Dane Shoemaker (45:34):
Yeah. There's always a lot. There's never any
knowledge out there.
Jeff Stein (45:38):
So Correct.
Dane Shoemaker (45:39):
Cool. Well, Jeff, this is great. Really
appreciate the opportunity hereto, you know, get to know you
and what you do a little bitmore, and it was fascinating
conversation. So thank you.
Jeff Stein (45:48):
No. Thank you. I appreciate it. I had a good
time.
Dane Shoemaker (45:50):
Yeah. So how how can how can people get in touch
with you?
Jeff Stein (45:53):
They can call our office, 610-696-7799. We also
have a toll free number, 188 seethat, s e e t h a t, or our
website, www.e0pspda.com. Andthere's links to everything on
(46:14):
our website.
Dane Shoemaker (46:14):
Yeah. We'll we'll put all that info in the
in the podcast also. So, Jeff,thanks so much. Appreciate it.
Thank you.
Thanks for listening today.Shoemaker Lab is an original
production by Shoemaker FilmsLLC. If you enjoyed today's
content, please considersubscribing on YouTube, Spotify,
Apple Podcasts, and wherever youget your content. Follow us on
(46:37):
Instagram at shoemaker.films.And if you're a business that's
either interested in our videoproduction services or would
like to be a guest on the show,get in touch by using the
contact form on our website,shoemakerfilms.com.
Welcome back to another episode of the Shoemaker
Films podcast. I'm joined herewith Jeff Stein of ELPS Private
Detective Agency. Jeff, how areyou today?
Jeff Stein (00:12):
I am good. Thank you. Good morning and thanks for
having Yeah.
Dane Shoemaker (00:15):
Absolutely. So, transparency. We, were
fraternity brothers in the samefraternity, but this is actually
the first time we've ever met.So, pretty neat, network of of
people around the Philadelphiaarea at Westchester KDR. But,
you know, what you do, is so ispretty fascinating.
So I wanted to sit down and hearyour story, your entrepreneurial
(00:38):
journey, and get to know, youknow, get to know you a little
bit more and and your business.So
Jeff Stein (00:42):
I look forward to it.
Dane Shoemaker (00:43):
Yeah. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. So
tell us what what EOPS does.
Jeff Stein (00:49):
EOPS, private detective agency. We are a full
fledged, private investigativeand security firm.
Dane Shoemaker (00:56):
Got
Jeff Stein (00:56):
it. We provide all different types of
investigations and securityservices throughout really the
the tristate area. We focus onPennsylvania, but we're licensed
in Pennsylvania, New Jersey, andDelaware.
Dane Shoemaker (01:07):
Okay. And what are the what are the services
that you you guys offer?
Jeff Stein (01:14):
We. S do a lot of different services. Yeah.
Personally I specialize incriminal defense. Okay.
Investigations and riskassessments, expert witness
work. We have a full staff. Wedo different surveillances for
workers' comp, slip disabilitycase, personal injury cases,
(01:35):
residency investigations, thegamut. We do background checks.
We provide investigativeservices for both criminal and
civil cases, civil litigation.
We will interview, there couldbe a lawsuit working on a case
now where there's been somesexual assaults of, of minors.
(01:57):
So we're, we're working on the,the civil side of that. There's
already been a conviction, butnow they're working on the civil
side. So any, any type ofinvestigation, or security,
different types of services weprovide.
Dane Shoemaker (02:11):
Okay. Are are you mostly I guess, do do you
work do you both work withprivate, you know, corporations,
residences, but you also workwith, public sector, like law
enforcement. Okay. Or
Jeff Stein (02:24):
We don't necessarily partner with law enforcement. We
may, but it's not like we're anoutsource of Yeah. Of the law
enforcement. There could be amissing person's case or,
something of that nature wherewe're providing, the
investigative work for. Therethere was a recent shooting of a
school bus in Coatesville.
(02:45):
One of the defendants is one ofour clients trying to prove
that, you know, what hisinvolvement was or wasn't in in
that case. So in in that sense,we're sort of working a little
bit with trying to provide thethe facts from what we can
identify.
Dane Shoemaker (03:02):
Yeah.
Jeff Stein (03:03):
But we're not working with them. You know? In
in that case, probably workingagainst them. Yeah. But we do, I
do, federally appointed work, sothrough the courts.
So I have cases that I work onthat are through the CJA,
Department of Justice, andthat's funded by the government.
Okay. And those are usually,high profile federal cases,
(03:29):
definitely death penalty caseswhere the defendant is provided
legal service on behalf of thestate for their defense.
Dane Shoemaker (03:40):
Yep. Okay. Wow. And you founded this firm for
how long ago?
Jeff Stein (03:48):
2006
Dane Shoemaker (03:50):
Okay.
Jeff Stein (03:50):
Is is when this became a thought, and then, it
grew from there.
Dane Shoemaker (03:55):
Yeah. And what's your background?
Jeff Stein (03:59):
So my, my background is in little bit in law
enforcement, corporate security,loss prevention. Yeah. I've
worked my way up. I went to thepolice academy, I went to Seager
and then I went to the privatesector.
Dane Shoemaker (04:12):
Okay.
Jeff Stein (04:12):
I became a director of loss prevention security for
different retailers. Yeah. Andbeing a victim of mergers and
acquisitions. I decided to goout on my own, control my own
destiny. And I did, I havealways worked on the side even
when I was doing full timecareer since I was 19 years old
(04:34):
and working for a privateinvestigator
Dane Shoemaker (04:35):
Yeah.
Jeff Stein (04:36):
Part time, per diem.
Dane Shoemaker (04:38):
Do you have you know, you talked a little bit
about the types of clients thatyou serve. Do you have, you
know, the is there a the bulk ofyour business serving one type
of, sector or or client,offering with service? Or is it
really just pretty pretty broadspectrum of what you do day to
day?
Jeff Stein (04:58):
It varies. The they're we're providing right
now. We're doing around theclocks kind of a counter
surveillance slash securityexecutive protection for Okay.
There was a, an employeetermination, somebody that, was
(05:18):
going, they were concerned aboutthe risk or threat of that
person that they're terminating.So we're providing, security
around the clock for thatcompany, making sure the
employee, the terminatedemployee doesn't return.
Dane Shoemaker (05:30):
Okay.
Jeff Stein (05:31):
So that's a, you know, an individual company we
do work for, like I said, thedepartment of justice, the CJA
cases, attorneys, law firms arebig client of ours and then
private citizens. Inmates.Inmate. Yeah. Inmates are, a big
source as well.
Really? And then retail chainsfor on the security side of
(05:54):
things.
Dane Shoemaker (05:54):
Yep. Yep. And do you have do you have w two
employees? Are these, you know,what does that look like here?
The organization?
Jeff Stein (06:02):
Yes. All employees. We have currently, we're up to
50, 55 employees. Okay. Oh, wow.
And, every now and then, we maysub something out for a 10.99 to
another private investigator.
Dane Shoemaker (06:16):
Okay.
Jeff Stein (06:16):
If we're just overstaffed, or not overstaffed,
our, our caseload gets prettydemanding. I know we, we have
another case right now thatwe're working on that we subbed
some of the workout to somebodywe use on a regular basis, but
Yeah. For the most part, they'reall actual employees.
Dane Shoemaker (06:36):
And are these mostly detectives,
investigators, security guards?Like, what are the types of
what's the makeup of your
Jeff Stein (06:43):
business, I guess? Good portion is security. And
then, I have a small crew forthe investigations Okay. And
surbalances, office manager,security supervisor.
Dane Shoemaker (06:54):
Mhmm.
Jeff Stein (06:54):
So it's it's diversified.
Dane Shoemaker (06:57):
So every you know, just what are kind of the
top trends right now in, youknow, the security world? What
are clients asking you? Youknow, what do they come to ask
you about? What are you talkingto about with clients?
Jeff Stein (07:10):
Well, there's 2 different sides of that. Yeah.
Because there's theinvestigative side, and then
there's the security side. So ifwe break that down from the
investigative side, it's reallyit's a gamut. We do, as I
mentioned, criminal defenseinvestigations, cheating
spouses, cohabitation cases.
(07:31):
Cohabitation cases seem to be onthe rise, based on. A couple
getting divorced and how theirdivorce decree reads and
Dane Shoemaker (07:41):
yeah,
Jeff Stein (07:42):
you know, who's living with who. So the
cohabitation child custodycases, We do a lot of residency
investigations for schooldistricts.
Dane Shoemaker (07:50):
Okay.
Jeff Stein (07:51):
For example, student says they're living in this.
Neighborhood, but they're livingsomewhere in a different school
district and being dropped off.So we provide that to school
districts On the security side,there's, corporations buildings.
We do, high end offices, andthen we do residential. We do
(08:12):
apartment buildings, bowlingalley, some Wawa's, Lowe's,
Trader Joe's.
Dane Shoemaker (08:18):
Okay. So anybody that needs security, any, you
know, high risk retailenvironments, you're you have a
security guard there.
Jeff Stein (08:25):
Correct. Special events. We do the Devon horse
show Okay.
Dane Shoemaker (08:28):
On a
Jeff Stein (08:28):
regular basis. So there's some other special
events too. High holidays,different, houses of worship
during, you know, differentholidays. Yeah. The election, we
got asked to do a security fornews media, as they're they're
staging on the streets.
Obviously, protect them, protecttheir equipment, and so forth.
(08:51):
Right. So very diversified andand depending on what's going
on, in in the country.
Dane Shoemaker (08:56):
Yeah. Yeah. And no shortage of crazy people out
there also. For sure. Yep.
Yeah. So it sounds like thatkeeps you busy. There's a
variety of different things.There's no no typical day. Or or
is it, you know, is there a dayto day?
I mean, what does your typicalday look like if there is one?
(09:17):
You know?
Jeff Stein (09:18):
Yeah. There is no typical day, which is Yeah.
Which is what I enjoy aboutthis. Yeah. Although, you know,
as, in in the position of of Thecompany.
I gotta deal with a lot ofadministrative issues. Selling
the services, dealing withlicensing, making sure the
licenses are up to dateinsurance is up to date. Okay.
(09:41):
So there's a lot of corporateadministrative tasks that are
needed.
Dane Shoemaker (09:47):
Yeah.
Jeff Stein (09:47):
Payroll, dealing with different issues as they
arise. Client has a, an, a newneed, a new concern need to deal
with that. Phone's alwaysringing, which is a good thing.
Yeah. Otherwise I'm out in thefield doing investigations,
talking to witnesses, trying tofind witnesses.
Dane Shoemaker (10:06):
Yeah.
Jeff Stein (10:06):
And just prove the facts Right. Whether they're
right, wrong, or indifferent,you know, we're just gonna
report what we find.
Dane Shoemaker (10:12):
Yeah. Yeah. I imagine, you know, 50 employees.
I mean, you're you're busy doingthe the the CEO task. Right?
You know? Yeah. Do do you have apartner in the business, or is
it just
Jeff Stein (10:23):
No. Yep.
Dane Shoemaker (10:26):
But
Jeff Stein (10:26):
I be lost without my operations manager or my office
manager, Mike. He he does a lot.He's interviewing. We're
interviewing on a regular basis,so he's trying to backfill and
fill in what we need in futureopenings. So Yeah.
I'd be lost without him.
Dane Shoemaker (10:42):
Yeah. That's good. Who who was your first
hire? If you don't mind measking, go back. What was the
role that you hired for first, Iguess?
Jeff Stein (10:52):
Armed security during Black Friday, during the
holidays. Yeah. That wasprobably the first employees
that I I officially hired. Aswell as interns, I take on an
intern. I started probably 15years ago taking interns from
(11:15):
west Chester university.
Oh, wow. Somebody I knew theirbrother was graduating, but
needed an internship and excuseme, west Chester university's
criminal justice program. Theyrequire to graduate all of their
students to do a practicum,which is 12 credits.
Dane Shoemaker (11:35):
Okay.
Jeff Stein (11:35):
And it's the, usually their summer before
their, their senior year. Sojunior into senior, if they,
meet some of their requirementsand take some classes early,
they can do it sophomore intojunior year. But in any case
they're required to work, 37 anda half hours for 12 weeks. Okay.
So I started doing that programtaking on intern about 15 years
(11:59):
ago.
And I do that as a hybrid.They're partially paid and
partially not depending if we'redoing billable time, billable
hours and so forth. And that wasprobably one of my other first
hires was that that intern. Andthat program has since evolved
with interns. And this pastyear, past summer, we had 7
(12:22):
interns from 4 differentschools.
Okay. So it was it was ainteresting time.
Dane Shoemaker (12:29):
It worked out really well. For all at one
time?
Jeff Stein (12:32):
All at one time. Wow. Yeah.
Dane Shoemaker (12:33):
And how does that pro I mean, are you doing a
lot of training and, or is itmostly on the job shadowing, or
what does that look like, theactual program?
Jeff Stein (12:41):
Combination of everything. So there there is
training, letting, you know,educating them about security,
about investigations, havingthem work on live cases, real
cases, reviewing case files, andthen security, put them in, in
security roles, train them to dosecurity and surances. Yeah. And
(13:04):
they're out there doing, doingwork, doing surances, up to
whatever we feel theircapabilities are. So they're,
they, it's a good opportunityfor them to see a lot of what's
going on in the criminal justicefield before they decide where
they wanna go.
Dane Shoemaker (13:21):
Yeah. Do a lot of them do they become cops? Do
they go into the private sector?Like, is it kind of a mix? Or
have you ever hired any rightout of college?
Jeff Stein (13:30):
Yeah.
Dane Shoemaker (13:30):
Full time?
Jeff Stein (13:31):
I do. In, in fact, Mike, my office manager, he
originally was scheduled, toslotted to do an internship with
me
Dane Shoemaker (13:41):
Okay.
Jeff Stein (13:41):
The 1st year of COVID. And then that COVID
happened, and they weren'tallowing their students to do in
person.
Dane Shoemaker (13:48):
Okay.
Jeff Stein (13:48):
Internships. So I ended up hiring him part time
and he worked as well into fulltime.
Dane Shoemaker (13:52):
Oh, that's great.
Jeff Stein (13:53):
So I do, And where they end up. I, I, a lot of
them, in various fields, thevery first one that I mentioned,
he ended up becoming a financialplanner. So he didn't, he didn't
stay with criminal justice,
Dane Shoemaker (14:10):
different type of securities, right?
Jeff Stein (14:12):
Yes, exactly. But most of them do go into law
enforcement. I know I've peoplein, in municipal law
enforcement, state troopers,several that go into the
military, one, who justgraduated from the coast guard
or just finishing his 4 years inthe coast guard. Right out of,
(14:33):
being an intern, he went intothe coast guard and now he's
gonna be leaving the coast guardafter 4 years in December and
going right into the policeacademy for Atlantic city. Okay.
New Jersey. So we have, we'vehad people go into the attorney
General's office, bank bankfraud and security, various
Okay. Others, law school, othersjust didn't stay in the
(14:57):
profession for one reason oranother.
Dane Shoemaker (14:59):
Yep. Are there certifications that, you know,
people need to get or that youneed to get or self defense
training or anything like that?Like
Jeff Stein (15:08):
there is, and it depends on what you do. It
depends on your role.Pennsylvania is not where I
would like it to be right now.Pennsylvania is governed by the
private detective act of 1953,which is antiquated. It needs to
be, we, we, when I say we, II'm, past president of the, the
(15:33):
Pennsylvania association oflicensed investigators.
And in the past we haverewritten the law. It made its
way to, to the house. Didn't goto the other side. So it really
needs to be. Improved inPennsylvania.
It doesn't require any trainingfor security now in New Jersey,
for example, in Delaware, wherewe're licensed as well, you need
(15:55):
to have security guard training.Okay. New Jersey. I happen to be
an instructor it's called thesoar instructor and it's, the
initial class is 40 hours of, ofsecurity training. Okay.
Actually, excuse me, it's 24,it's 24 hours, the initial
class, but everybody's requiredto take that. And every 2 years
they need to, do a, an 8 hourrecertification. So we try to, I
(16:20):
try to, do that with myemployees the best I can.
Dane Shoemaker (16:23):
Yeah.
Jeff Stein (16:24):
But Pennsylvania doesn't require that. Okay. For
me, there's a lot of differentcertifications that I get to
advance my CV and my,capabilities Mhmm. With risk
assessments, threat assessments.There's, a board certified
criminal defense investigator,board accredited investigator.
(16:45):
So there's a lot ofcertification programs out
there. And, I'm a proponent ofcontinuing to learn Sure. Get
educated.
Dane Shoemaker (16:54):
Yep. Yeah. That's good. I mean, that's
that's good for your clientstoo. I mean, you're just
continuously improving Right.
You know, staying on top of newmethodologies or trends and
staying staying sharp. So
Jeff Stein (17:06):
Very true. Yep.
Dane Shoemaker (17:11):
So, you know, where do you so you mentioned a
little bit about, you know,inbound request selling. I mean,
do you do much marketing or, youknow, outreach to businesses?
What does that part of thebusiness look like as a
marketing person? Like, I'malways curious what what
businesses are doing to kindaget their name out there.
Jeff Stein (17:31):
I I currently spend a decent amount of money on
marketing in differentplatforms. There's some local,
magazines, that we advertise andmarket in. Yeah. We've do,
social media, a lot of onlinepresence. There are some public,
(17:53):
or professional trade magazinesthat, PI magazine that we've
advertised in that we've beenauthors in, written material
for, belonging to a lot ofdifferent associations.
And networking with them. Yeah.Marketing my firm to those
different associations from justbeing, being a member or
(18:16):
attending conferences.
Dane Shoemaker (18:17):
Yeah.
Jeff Stein (18:18):
Or writing for a newsletter or asking questions
or putting something out thereon their listservs or LinkedIn.
I'll do a lot of PSAs, publicservice announcements or white
papers, you know, and post themon LinkedIn and other social
media platforms. With all thatbeing said, though, in, in my
(18:38):
profession, I do find thatword-of-mouth is probably the
best. We, we do some mailings aswell. We do some postcards and
very little return oninvestment.
But as you know, you need totouch people in different ways.
Yeah. We have gotten work fromfrom the postcard mailing. So if
(18:59):
you get a little bit, it canhurt.
Dane Shoemaker (19:01):
Sure.
Jeff Stein (19:02):
But just word-of-mouth, inmates, for
example, talk to each other.Right? They're they're they're
cellmates. They're in prison 247together. They share our
information.
Attorneys share our information.Yeah. You do a good job for 1
attorney and, you know, somebodyelse calls and they have a need
that is just, yeah, probably oneof the, one of the best things
we can do. We do. Advertisethrough some other online yellow
(19:27):
pages, if you will, for privateinvestigators.
Dane Shoemaker (19:30):
Okay.
Jeff Stein (19:30):
So there are some specific ones out there. PI now,
for example, is one of those. Sowe we try to market in some of
those. So your your website, youwant your web to be seen? Yeah.
Google rankings. Yeah. I guessyour, your rankings,
Dane Shoemaker (19:46):
a lot of backlinks, the presence on the
website. Yeah.
Jeff Stein (19:49):
Yeah. So PI now is if you Google like private
investigator in Westchester.
Dane Shoemaker (19:54):
Okay.
Jeff Stein (19:54):
My company's gonna come up, but it may also come up
through PI now because of alltheir, all of their analytics
and spiders they're putting outthere, to improve their Google
rankings.
Dane Shoemaker (20:06):
Okay. So you're not, you're not on like
Craigslist, right?
Jeff Stein (20:10):
You know what? In the past, I'll be honest with
you. And if we have some furtherconversational little bit later,
I did advertise on Craigslist.
Dane Shoemaker (20:18):
Yeah.
Jeff Stein (20:19):
My services and I did pick up a few jobs, but I
haven't advertised on Craigslistin 10 years at least. But when I
first started, it was freeadvertising. Sure. And
Dane Shoemaker (20:29):
I I thought there there was a there was a TV
show on HBO years ago. I thinkthe actor's Jason Schwartzman.
He's basically like a strugglingwriter, and he decided one day
he wanna be a privateinvestigator, and he posted on
Craigslist. And the whole TVshow was, like, one season. It
was just him going on thesecrazy adventures in New York
City, like, investigatingthings.
(20:49):
So
Jeff Stein (20:50):
Interesting.
Dane Shoemaker (20:51):
Yeah. I'll have to find the remember the name of
it.
Jeff Stein (20:56):
There was, Comcast used to do a show in different
locations called Private Eyes.
Dane Shoemaker (21:05):
Okay.
Jeff Stein (21:05):
And it was real private investigators. And I was
featured they featured severalof my cases on there, at one
point, before they they justdiscontinued. It was one of
those Something that Comcast,like on demand.
Dane Shoemaker (21:23):
Okay.
Jeff Stein (21:23):
So it wasn't, a regular series, but you can go
to, at that time, you can go toComcast and do on demand private
eyes and see private eye inChicago or Lancaster or
Pennsylvania or oh, wow. WestChester, Pennsylvania. And they
featured me on, on their casesand, on some of my cases and it
was pretty neat because they'rereenacting my cases and filming.
(21:46):
Oh, that's
Dane Shoemaker (21:46):
pretty cool.
Jeff Stein (21:47):
Yeah. In Philadelphia, for example.
Dane Shoemaker (21:49):
Yeah.
Jeff Stein (21:49):
You know, looking for somebody in some back alleys
and it was, it was my first timeon TV. And since then, 2 of my
other cases have been featuredas well.
Dane Shoemaker (21:58):
Oh, really?
Jeff Stein (21:59):
I, I had one case featured on the ID channel.
Dane Shoemaker (22:01):
Okay.
Jeff Stein (22:02):
And another one on CNN death row stories. Oh, wow.
Got some good TV time. That'scool. And and let me tell you,
that's great advertising.
Dane Shoemaker (22:09):
Sure.
Jeff Stein (22:10):
Everybody's saying that.
Dane Shoemaker (22:11):
Do you do any, like, PR stuff, like getting on
the news, talking about, youknow, security trends or
Jeff Stein (22:20):
Not as much as I would like. Yeah. Okay. That's
something I would like to domore, and and that's something
that I will put out on, like Isaid, social media as a public
service announcement. I've beenfeatured on Fox news online, one
of my articles in the past.
Okay. But I would definitelylike to do a little more. Okay.
(22:41):
Have that opportunity.
Dane Shoemaker (22:42):
Sure.
Jeff Stein (22:42):
Yeah. So for anyone who's listening, you need a, a
subject matter expert in a lotof different security
investigative roles. I'd love tolove to chat. I, I know I've, I
recently wrote an article as I,I was telling you about, How
antiquated Pennsylvania is withtheir private detective act.
(23:03):
Right.
And part of that is there's nowe are the only profession. I
don't wanna sidetrack this toomuch, but private investigators
are the only profession thatrequires a license in the state
of Pennsylvania that isn'tlicensed at Harrisburg. So we
have to petition the court, thethe county on where you where
(23:26):
you're gonna office or where youlive to get your PI license. And
the problem with that is there's67 different counties in
Pennsylvania, which is open tointerpretation of the law, 60 7
different ways. And there's,clerks, the clerk of courts who
sort of oversees that andfunnels it up to the district
(23:47):
attorney.
Okay. But they're, they're anelected position that could
change every 4 years. So theydon't necessarily even always
understand the program. Andanyway, long story short, I
wrote an article about that and,I was trying to get it submitted
to some of the, newspapers andPI magazine picked it up. So
it's going to be featured in PImagazine first.
(24:08):
Oh, great. I just hopeHarrisburg reads it because some
things need to change and thataffects, you know, unlicensed
security, companies, especiallyin Philadelphia. Yeah. It was a
big problem with that. You know,they're not licensed means
they're not insured.
And some of these companies maynot realize that. Okay. Anyway
Dane Shoemaker (24:29):
So there's risks with that. There's, you know,
liability potentially withcompanies that hire these
unlicensed companies. Right?Yeah.
Jeff Stein (24:37):
Very true. And and another problem, Pennsylvania's
constables. Constables get hiredfrequently by other, let's say a
retailer hires a constable.That's not their job. They're
not licensed to do that.
The constable is an electedposition to do work for the
courts. And for example, onelection, they can, they can
(24:58):
provide security for the, thevoting polls. Right? Okay.
That's one of their roles, butthey're not licensed to provide
armed security at a retaillocation, but they do.
And I'm just waiting forsomething to happen and they're
gonna get sued. The retailer'sgonna get sued or named in that
liability lawsuit. Yeah. Andthey're gonna have no insurance
(25:20):
to defend them on this Constablebecause the constable is not
licensed. They're insured toprovide that service.
So Yeah. It's a big problem inPennsylvania, and hopefully,
that'll get fixed one day
Dane Shoemaker (25:31):
Yeah. Before I retire. That's Yeah. That I
mean, that's a really importantreason why, you know, a company,
a big retailer, or anybodyshould be working with a, you
know, established firm like likeyou guys. So Yeah.
Are there a lot of, I'll callthem, I guess, competing, you
know, agencies? Are there a lotin the area, you know, that you
(25:53):
compete with or, you know, howdo you differentiate yourselves
from maybe other PI services?
Jeff Stein (25:59):
There are quite a few in Pennsylvania. There's
there's a lot in Chester County.I don't really view private
investigators, privateinvestigation companies, firms
as competition. There's so muchwork out there.
Dane Shoemaker (26:13):
Yeah.
Jeff Stein (26:13):
Especially when you do some, some niche work in
criminal defense, for example,or somebody may do accident
reconstruction or somebody justmay like to do surveillance and
that's all they like to do.Right. And we get a lot of work
from other private investigationcompanies.
Dane Shoemaker (26:27):
Okay.
Jeff Stein (26:28):
And same thing, you know, we we, give out, we may
get a request for something inNew York where we're not
licensed and I'm gonna reach outto a colleague in New York to,
to handle that job. So I don't,I don't feel the competition
from the, the PI sector. Yeah.They're most of them in this
(26:49):
area. I know I'm friends with,we refer work to each other.
We'll, you know, bounce ideasoff of each other and there's,
there's for any good privateinvestigation firm. There's a
lot of work out there. Yeah.Just, just like there are how
many criminal defense attorneysare there? Family law attorneys
in Chester county alone.
And I'm sure most of them arebusy.
Dane Shoemaker (27:10):
Yeah. Right.
Jeff Stein (27:11):
So as long as you're doing a good job on the security
side, we have a lot ofcompetition and in, in the inner
cities, there's a lot of, like Imentioned, unlicensed companies,
that, that pop up. And then,there are some of the big, big
companies, Allied Universal andsome of the other big players
that they just come in lowball,and it's hard to hard to compete
(27:35):
with their with their prices.Right. Right. But our services
and personnel are gonna be at ahigher level.
Yeah. We're we're paying ouremployees more. And those are
things that you need to factorin, you know, when you're
talking to different clients.
Dane Shoemaker (27:51):
Yeah. And the training that you do. I mean,
you Yeah. You do you basicallytake it the next level up to
what what Pennsylvania requires.Yeah.
Jeff Stein (27:58):
Right.
Dane Shoemaker (27:59):
So that's great. Any stories you wanna share?
Just kinda I know it's asensitive sensitive what you
guys do and confidentiality andthings like that, but I think, I
think about like, my wife and Ilisten to a lot of true crime
podcasts. And so I think peopleare just fascinated with this
world, but I know there's not alot for you probably can share.
(28:21):
But
Jeff Stein (28:21):
Yes. So there's there's a lot of cases, a lot of
things, that are interesting.
Dane Shoemaker (28:30):
Yeah.
Jeff Stein (28:31):
I do need to be careful. I can't reveal, you
know, and need to keep it,confidential as far as who the
clients are, what some of thecases may have been about. Some
people, there was a high highprofile case in Philadelphia
that involved a famous singerstour manager who was killed, and
(28:52):
we worked on that case. And Iwish I can share all the details
on that. Yeah.
There there are a few that, Ican touch on. Cabani Savage,
that was one of the largestcases in in the United States,
southeastern district ofPennsylvania, which is it was a
federal case. There was a RICOcharges against Cabani and 3
(29:16):
other codefendants. So there wastotal of 4 codefendants, and
they were charged withfirebombing, a house killing
witnesses. 6 people perished inin that house fire.
And it was a really interestingcase. I was assigned to Kadata,
(29:38):
Kabani's sister, who was alsoone of the people charged in
this. And Okay. The what I findinteresting is there was a a
federal witness who, who becamea federal witness for the FBI
Okay. And for for the federalthe US attorney's office.
And he was known to have killed11 people. They knew of the 11
(30:01):
people that he killed. He waspart of that firebombing. Yeah.
He he did the firebombing.
So that's 6 and then there was 5more that the government knew
about. And there was another onethat I knew about. So 12 people,
this guy killed. Wow. And thegovernment made a deal with him
to testify against these other 4people.
And for that deal, he gotsentenced to 40 years in federal
(30:22):
prison that does not include histime served during this whole
process. So he got credit forthe 8, 9, 10 years. He was
already in jail. And for federalcases, I want to say it's you
only need to serve or forfederal convictions, you only
need to serve 80 or 85% of thattime. So this guy who killed 12
(30:43):
people is going to get out ofjail in 20 something years, But
yet there's other people kill 1person, they get sentenced to
life in prison Yeah.
Without parole or to the deathpenalty.
Dane Shoemaker (30:54):
So Right. Wow.
Jeff Stein (30:56):
I I guess it's something interesting that the
government viewed. We'd ratherget these other 4 people and cut
him a deal, and that's what theydid.
Dane Shoemaker (31:06):
Yeah. You know, maximize, you know, what you
can, I guess? You know?
Jeff Stein (31:09):
Right. Yeah. I I Wow. There there's, the Zach
Whitman was a juvenile lifer whowas, convicted of killing his
brother back in I wanna say itwas 199098, 96, or 98. Zach was
15 years old at the time, andhis brother Gregory was 13.
(31:34):
And he was convicted of,stabbing him a 104 times and
partially decapitating him. Idon't believe that he did this.
I worked, on his defense afterthe, the, the post conviction
relief act, trying to get him anew trial. But during that time,
there was a documentary that wasa crew, a film crew that was
(31:56):
working on this case and doing adocumentary and what had
happened. I got a witness whocalled in originally, but it was
never followed up on 25 yearsago, 30 years ago.
And that person lives inTennessee. We flew out to
Tennessee to interview her andshe identified a person of
interest on somebody who mayhave been responsible for
(32:20):
killing Greg. And right at thesame time, the the courts
decided, that it wasunconstitutional to convict a
juvenile to life without parolebecause their brain isn't
developed till they're 21 yearsold. So sentencing somebody who
was 15 at the time, for a crimethat they committed, they feel
(32:43):
that their brain didn't developand they shouldn't be have that
harsh of a penalty. So alljuvenile lifers, and Zach was
one of them, had to beresentenced to, to be able to
get out of jail, or or a newsentence, which isn't life.
And at the same time that thisdocumentary was being done and I
(33:04):
was being interviewed andidentified somebody else, they
offered him to admit that he didit and he'll get out of jail out
of prison in 6 months. Now hewas 15 when this happened, he
didn't go to, court until he wasalmost 21 years old. And then he
got sentenced to life withoutparole. So, basically from 15
(33:28):
until he was released, he was,34 or 30, I think 34 years old
when he was finally released.But because the, the court said
where the DA's office, made adeal with him proffered that
admit that you did this andwe'll charge it from, from,
felony 1 to a felony 3, ahomicide, murder.
(33:52):
And you'll get out in 6 months,which he did.
Dane Shoemaker (33:54):
Wow.
Jeff Stein (33:55):
So that was a interesting case. I still don't
think that he did it. I went andtalked to the person, after he
got out of jail. So we didn'twanna interfere with that
process.
Dane Shoemaker (34:08):
Yeah.
Jeff Stein (34:09):
And I went with the film crew, who was covert and
stayed in the truck, but I wentwith one of my investigators and
I accused this person ofcommitting being responsible for
the murder of, of Greg Whitman.And he continued to talk to me
and bring me into his home andshow me around his property for
almost an hour. And I find thatreally odd. If somebody accused
(34:32):
me, came to my house and knockedon my door and said, I think
you're responsible for JohnDoe's murder. I'd tell him to
get the blank out of here.
Right? Or, you know, get off myproperty. I'm I'm not talking to
you. And this gentleman justcontinued to talk and introduced
me to his wife that way. It wasjust odd.
I still feel that he isresponsible for this. So
Dane Shoemaker (34:55):
Was it was this out in Lancaster area?
Jeff Stein (34:59):
No. No. This is not. Yeah. York York County.
York County. York.
Dane Shoemaker (35:03):
Okay. I I feel like I've heard I've heard about
this story. I I the documentaryis out now. Right?
Jeff Stein (35:07):
It's called The Whitman's.
Dane Shoemaker (35:08):
The Whitman's. And I've heard this story
before.
Jeff Stein (35:11):
Yeah. Yeah. It's called The Whitman's. You can
Google it and find it on the IDchannel. Yeah.
And it the the documentary thatcame out wasn't what was
originally intended it to beabout. It was really the
original documentary, and and Ibelieve they're still hoping
this becomes a Netflix series orsomething. Yeah. But, it started
(35:32):
with some, college students whostarted their own company and
they started this as a project.And then it, it continued to
grow and it got sold to somedifferent companies and the
company that finally picked itup sort of changed it to make it
more about the family of some ofa juvenile who sentenced to life
in prison without parole.
(35:53):
Yeah. So it was reallydiscussing more of the family
versus the whether he was guiltyor innocent, which which was
fine, but, hopefully, there'llbe another documentary about it.
Dane Shoemaker (36:04):
I can't imagine you lose both your sons,
basically. You know? Yeah.
Jeff Stein (36:08):
And I'm still in touch with the family, and and
it was it was very hard on onthe parents
Dane Shoemaker (36:14):
because I can't imagine.
Jeff Stein (36:15):
On in one day, they're they really just lost
the 13 year old and a 15 yearold.
Dane Shoemaker (36:19):
Yeah. You know, just just any other tips that
you might have for businessowners, you know, just as far
from, like, a security stand.Like, just maybe everyday things
that people should be aware of,you know, things like that.
Jeff Stein (36:32):
Starting a business?
Dane Shoemaker (36:33):
No. More so from the security standpoint. I'm
just thinking. Yeah. I we'llwe'll cut that question in 2.
Like, from your expertisestandpoint, you know, should a
business owner be thinking aboutthings, you know, other security
things that they should beworried about or
Jeff Stein (36:49):
A business a business owner, somebody who's
starting a business and someconcerns, security concerns,
yeah, business concerns.
Dane Shoemaker (36:58):
Do you see frequent things that that people
miss or
Jeff Stein (37:03):
They do. I think Yeah. You know, most new
businesses don't survive the 1st18 months. Yeah. Most new
businesses, don't survive the1st year to 2 years because of
employee theft.
There's there's so much employeetheft and misconduct that
there's a lot of retailers ifthey don't have the right
(37:23):
security in place. And when Isay security, not just physical
security, we're, we're providingthem, you know, security guards,
but security plans, how to, howto count their money at night,
how to audit their register,look for fraudulent activity
that may have occurred. Peoplestealing time, you know, there,
(37:44):
we we've done work and this isagain, a tip for other people,
but you know, so many people,somebody goes out on a workers'
comp case or a disability case,because they, they claim they
got hurt or injured on the jobor, or make up things that may
have happened. Insurancecompanies pay that out. The
workers' comp just pays it outvery little.
(38:04):
There's a small percentage thatare actually investigated. And,
and we do a lot of them forthose insurance companies and
law firms, but we can get hiredand, and have been hired
directly by the, by the businessbecause they have somebody who
they suspect is is out doingsomething they shouldn't be
(38:25):
doing. Yeah. Yeah. We we had onethat, they were paying, he, he
suffered a serious heartcondition.
They were continuing to pay himas he was allegedly recuperating
and he was working. He wassinging in a rock band, at the
Trocadero in Philadelphia. And II had covert video of him
(38:46):
picking up all the heavyequipment and and whatnot.
Dane Shoemaker (38:49):
Yeah. Yeah.
Jeff Stein (38:50):
Oh, wow. Yeah. We have, we we had others that
people go out on unemploymentbecause their employer
terminates them and then theythey dispute that claim. We had
one guy who kept calling out andso many excuses was using that,
his, his mother died of cancer,that his daughter had a
(39:10):
miscarriage and we started doingour investigation. We found the
mother to be alive.
We even delivered flowers toher. She was a cancer survivor
and we have video of my staffdelivering flowers to her,
saying that, you know, you're,you're a cancer survivor and on
behalf of the Cancer Foundation,you know, here's flowers. His
daughter did have the baby.There was never a miscarriage,
(39:33):
but he was just calling outsick. So, you know, we can help
defend companies like that withworkers' comp.
But those things all attributeto lack of funds, lack of money,
and going out of business.
Dane Shoemaker (39:45):
Yeah. Bottom hit impacting the bottom line. Yeah.
Sure. Yeah.
Employee is really one of thebiggest expenses that most
businesses will
Jeff Stein (39:52):
Unfortunately. Yeah. Yeah. That they are.
Dane Shoemaker (39:55):
Yeah. Before we wrap up, just kind of, you know,
in your journey of building thiscompany, like, any anything that
you've taken away, maybe a bigchallenge you ran into that you
were able to overcome or anyadvice for people starting a
business or or running onetoday?
Jeff Stein (40:09):
Yes. In in fact, I normally I I give a class to new
private investigators called PI101. You got your you got your
license. Now what?
Dane Shoemaker (40:19):
Yeah.
Jeff Stein (40:19):
And it's it's kind of like giving advice to them.
And and the same thing you justasked me is, I would recommend
anyone who's starting a businessthat they can work start growing
and working on that businesswhile they're still employed or
have another job. Mhmm. Becausestarting it, unless you have the
financial support, family orinvestments, banks, whatever,
(40:43):
it's difficult to get startedbecause there's a big expense
that people don't realize you,whether you need certain
certifications or licenses, butyou also need to register. You
need to become an LLC or a, asole proprietor or an s corp,
whatever.
Dane Shoemaker (40:59):
Yep.
Jeff Stein (41:00):
So how do you do that? You know, now do you need
to pay an attorney to help youwith that process? You need to
start marketing yourself. Youneed to get insurance, make sure
you're insured and, justbusiness cards and designing
your business cards. And, one ofthe mistakes I made when I first
started is I my my very firstbusiness card I created and
(41:21):
printed myself.
You can go to Staples and buythe perforated
Dane Shoemaker (41:25):
Sure.
Jeff Stein (41:25):
Business card, templates and, you know, I do
stock photos. And, you know,when I look back, it was the
ugliest, cheapest piece of junk,you know, I've ever done.
Dane Shoemaker (41:37):
Yeah.
Jeff Stein (41:37):
And then I ordered from Vistaprint, and I ordered
the free business cards. And I'mnot bashing. Vistaprint does a
great job, but on the freecards, it says on the back of
it, they're free cards andthey're they're smaller than
your normal business card.
Dane Shoemaker (41:50):
Yeah.
Jeff Stein (41:51):
So invest the money. And I think that's a big thing
if you're trying to be cheap ortake shortcuts. I understand
money's tight, but do it rightthe first time because I've done
it so many different times. I'veI've changed, different logos
over the years and try torebrand a little bit. And every
time you do that, it costsmoney.
(42:12):
But invest in having, a graphicdesigner or professional do it.
Yeah. Some stuff you can, sortof sub out to Fiverr, and and
use Fiverr a little bit or someother things. But find that
person that can create nicebrochures, professional looking
brochures, not things that youprint yourself and fold. So just
(42:37):
starting while you have somemoney Yeah.
And and building that baselineof that business because it's
it's a challenge and it's noteasy and growing your clientele,
your customer base is isdifficult until you have been
doing it for so long and youhave residual clients coming
back or residual income comingin, as well as when you're doing
(43:03):
something for the first timepeople wanna reference, well,
can I see some of the work thatyou've done or talk to somebody?
And when you have nothing toshow them, it's, it's difficult.
Dane Shoemaker (43:12):
Yeah. So
Jeff Stein (43:12):
you need to start off and then you get that
word-of-mouth. And, I thinkthat's one of the biggest
things. Just don't takeshortcuts. Do it right the first
time. Yeah.
So when you gotta redo it 5times, you just paid, you know,
5 times the money if you wouldhave just spent that money on on
the, initial setup.
Dane Shoemaker (43:31):
I think that's I think that's good advice, you
know. Yeah. Perception'sreality. It's how how people,
you know, interact with youryour business and your and your
brand is is critical. Yeah.
Jeff Stein (43:42):
Yeah. So Yeah. Learn from my mistakes. So I've I've
done all them and I spent a lotof money and you learn as you
go. You know, find out what someof the industry standards are
and best practices and, youknow, even things like
QuickBooks.
You know, if if you're not usingQuickBooks and you're you're
trying to do it for years, Iwhen I was doing my taxes at the
(44:05):
end of the year, I'd spent hoursbecause I'm I'm taking all the
receipts. And now I gotta logeach receipt and figure out, you
know, what category it goes in.And, I just, I didn't, I didn't
know, nobody taught me.
Dane Shoemaker (44:18):
Right. There
Jeff Stein (44:19):
was nobody said Jeff, this, how you should do it
until you learn or network andtalk to other people. And, you
know, then you trans transitionto QuickBooks and everything's
your bank accounts are linkedand your credit cards are
linked. There's nothing to do.You just approve it. You know,
it's
Dane Shoemaker (44:33):
it Right. Right.
Jeff Stein (44:33):
Makes that process or hire a bookkeeper, which I've
done in the past, You know?Yeah. Have an accountant, have
somebody who knows what whatthey're doing to help recommend,
you know, you take the rightsteps.
Dane Shoemaker (44:43):
Yeah. I mean, you you can't learn a lot of
this stuff in in schools. Youknow? They don't really teach
entrepreneurship. They don't youknow?
So, yeah, you kinda have tofigure it out.
Jeff Stein (44:53):
Yes. Yeah. So talk to other business owners. Yeah.
You know?
There's there's groups from BNInetworking groups to the Chamber
of Commerce. There's there's alot of different things out
there. Yeah. But network andtalk to other, other people,
people wanna help, you know,there's, I think there's,
there's a lot of people willingto sit down like we are and have
(45:13):
this conversation, help mentorsomebody. Sure.
The SBA, the small businessadministration
Dane Shoemaker (45:20):
Yeah.
Jeff Stein (45:20):
They have some free webinars and training that are
pretty good too. And and I neverpaid attention to any of them.
Right. 20 years later, I'mtaking these classes and, you
know, just still trying to tolearn what I can.
Dane Shoemaker (45:32):
That's good. Yeah. Always been proven. Yeah.
Jeff Stein (45:34):
Yeah.
Dane Shoemaker (45:34):
Yeah. There's always a lot. There's never any
knowledge out there.
Jeff Stein (45:38):
So Correct.
Dane Shoemaker (45:39):
Cool. Well, Jeff, this is great. Really
appreciate the opportunity hereto, you know, get to know you
and what you do a little bitmore, and it was fascinating
conversation. So thank you.
Jeff Stein (45:48):
No. Thank you. I appreciate it. I had a good
time.
Dane Shoemaker (45:50):
Yeah. So how how can how can people get in touch
with you?
Jeff Stein (45:53):
They can call our office, 610-696-7799. We also
have a toll free number, 188 seethat, s e e t h a t, or our
website, www.e0pspda.com. Andthere's links to everything on
(46:14):
our website.
Dane Shoemaker (46:14):
Yeah. We'll we'll put all that info in the
in the podcast also. So, Jeff,thanks so much. Appreciate it.
Thank you.
Thanks for listening today.Shoemaker Lab is an original
production by Shoemaker FilmsLLC. If you enjoyed today's
content, please considersubscribing on YouTube, Spotify,
Apple Podcasts, and wherever youget your content. Follow us on
(46:37):
Instagram at shoemaker.films.And if you're a business that's
either interested in our videoproduction services or would
like to be a guest on the show,get in touch by using the
contact form on our website,shoemakerfilms.com.
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