February 21, 2024 • 27 mins
Resilience isn't just a buzzword; it's the lifeblood of entrepreneurship, a daily meditation that keeps us steadfast through the storm. Together with the remarkable Jill Michal, we unravel the fabric of tenacity that binds every entrepreneur. Jill, with her laser-focus and a toolbox of personal mantras, epitomizes the entrepreneurial spirit. We converse about the power of "I am" statements and their pivotal role in forging a resilient identity, both in the boardroom and beyond. This episode isn't just a conversation; it's a testament to the relentless pursuit of growth amid adversity.
Our journey doesn't stop at the business arena; it extends into the intimate corridors of personal health and the networks that sustain it. We explore the notion of 'kinkeeper' and how healthcare networks can transform patient care. Sharing my own voyage from accounting to social services, I reflect on the resilience born from personal loss and how it shapes my approach to life's challenges. We also unveil the Kith and Kin app, a beacon of hope for managing health information that underscores our discussion on cultivating a culture of resilience. If you're seeking a leadership compass or ways to bolster your support network, this heart-to-heart is your guiding star.
About Jill Michal:
Jill Michal is the CEO and Cofounder of Kith + Kin. She is a champion for the human at the center of every healthcare journey, on a crusade to bring a sense of confidence and control to individuals and families who want health to be done WITH them and not TO them. As a wife and mother of three children, she’s been the "KinKeeper" for decades - the one in charge of everyone's health - playing air traffic control for all the appointments and reminders and central intelligence, making sure everyone knows what they need to know, when they need to know it. Jill started Kith + Kin when she realized health is a team sport; and in her house, she’s the coach, but she had better tools for travel volleyball.
Connect with Jill:
Website kithandkin.app
LinkedIn linkedin.com/company/kithandkinapp
Instagram instagram.com/kithandkinapp
Facebook facebook.com/kithandkinapp
This episode is brought to you by Kith + Kin. Securely create, store, organize and share health information. Go to KithandKin.app to learn more.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Announcer (00:00):
Entrepreneur, author and financial consultant, Marc
Bernstein helps high-performingentrepreneurial business owners
create a vision for the futureand follow through on their
goals and intentions.
Ang Onorato is a businessgrowth strategist who blend
psychology and business togetherto create conscious leaders and
business owners who impact theworld.
Founders Forum is a radio showpodcast sharing the real stories
(00:24):
behind entrepreneurship asfounders discover more about
themselves, while providingvaluable lessons and some fun
and entertainment for you.
Now here's Marc and Ang.
Marc Bernstein (00:35):
Good morning America.
How are you this morning?
Good morning America.
How are you?
How are you Arlo?
How are you Ang?
How you doing?
I know you had a rough flight.
Ang Onorato (00:45):
Yeah, it's been some travel nightmares, but you
know that's Thanksgiving travel,I guess, so glad to be home for
now.
Marc Bernstein (00:53):
Good morning to Jill Michal, our guest today.
Jill Michal (00:55):
Good morning.
Marc Bernstein (00:56):
And we will introduce Jill in a moment.
But I'm, you know, thinkingabout.
I was just thinking about thefact that when I used to think
of the word resilience, whichwe've talked about on the show
before, I used to think abouttough times I was in and how I
had to be resilient, or certainpeople I knew that went through
real struggles and they had tobe resilient and come back from
(01:18):
that.
But now I hear that word allthe time, almost every day, and
I'm realizing that it seems likein a lot of ways, businesses
gotten harder.
People were having familyissues, health issues.
We just Enge I know you haveseveral family members with
COVID.
I had the effects of the shotyesterday which felt like COVID,
(01:40):
and that was a struggle for aday.
It's, unfortunately, fine today, but we, you know, we're all.
It just seemed that thingsgoing on in the world, world
events I mean there's tragediesall around in the Middle East
and people that are going tospend lifetimes recovering from
those tragedies, and so I'm justthinking about resilience.
(02:01):
Instead of something that you,like you, have to summon up
every once in a while, it may besomething that you almost have
to use on a daily basis.
So I would like to hear fromboth of you on your thoughts
about that, and you want to gofirst.
Ang Onorato (02:15):
Yeah, you know, Marc, it's a great topic that
you brought back up againbecause, as we shared offline,
we did talk about this a couplemonths ago.
But, as I was mentioning, goingthrough some business struggles
which, honestly, I thoughtwould be, you know, in a
different position in just a fewmonths, but it's really really
taken a lot longer and it's toyour point, it's it's required
(02:35):
me to kind of be more resilientthan even I had prepared and
thought.
So I think a lot of people arein that space.
And then when you add in a lotof the things you mentioned, you
know, family caregiving,national global events, it's, it
is a daily practice, for sure,for sure.
Marc Bernstein (02:51):
We also, you know, I have a new company as of
a year ago and working with alot of the same people I've
worked with for years.
But new company, new vision.
And we had this very grandiosevision and we did it for a year
and a half, six months, beforewe started the company.
And then, since then andrecently, we decided to reset
(03:12):
that.
We realized that while it wasattainable, we had other things
we needed to do first.
So we had to kind of reset, goback to sort of our original
vision with some revisions, andthat required some resilience
and adjustment by my partnersand our staff and everybody.
So so we've gone through that.
Jill, how about you?
What is it?
What occurs to you about?
Jill Michal (03:33):
this, oh Mesh.
Well, you know, this is anentrepreneur, right?
I think I was reading somearticle that said every
entrepreneur goes through atleast a dozen near-death
experiences, right, Right.
And so you know, resilience.
I've never required moreresilience than I have in this
role, but to your point, it justkind of now becomes one of your
core skill sets versus, to yourpoint, something you, you know,
(03:54):
as you said, summon up.
You know you got to summon itup every morning.
Marc Bernstein (03:58):
Right when you get out.
Announcer (03:59):
You're like all right , I'm going to do this right.
Jill Michal (04:01):
I'm going to do this again today and it takes a
lot.
Marc Bernstein (04:05):
Well, I am a believer in and I know Angie
does similar things.
I do these.
I am statements, you know.
I remind myself of what I amand what I'm made of.
I did them this morning beforeI came here, because sometimes
you wake up in the morning andit's like you forget who you are
, you know, forget what, youknow what you're about and those
reminders.
It gives me strength every dayand it's you know.
(04:26):
People pray.
I do some of that too, butthere's a lot of things you can
do to kind of summon up thatpower every day.
I don't know if you have anyroutine about that, Jill, or you
know I don't.
Jill Michal (04:39):
I don't know that I do.
All right, I mean, there's a.
You know there's a lot ofroutine, right, there's a lot of
things that I do to keep myworld kind of calm and focused,
and I think that's how I do itright.
It's for me, it's trying tofigure out how to reduce the
distraction, or at least set itaside and recognize the
(04:59):
difference so that I can reallytry to focus on what matters.
Marc Bernstein (05:03):
I do know you have some things like that,
because I know you have quotesthat you use and we'll get to
those, but I know you havequotes that are very
motivational to you that I thinkyou kind of you know hold up
when you need them, you know,kind of thing.
So let me introduce Jill Michal.
She is CEO and co-founder ofKith and Kin and she will
(05:24):
explain what that means in aminute.
But I want to read you, in thethird person, her bio that she
wrote.
Um, I don't always like to read, but I'm going to read this
because it's I love the way it'swritten.
She is champion for the human,at the center of every
healthcare journey, on a crusadeto bring a sense of confidence
and control to individuals andfamilies who want health to be
(05:47):
done with them and not to them.
As a, you know, as a wife andmother of three children, she's
been the kinkeeper for decades,the one in charge of everyone's
health, playing air trafficcontrol for all the appointments
and reminders, and centralintelligence, making sure, um,
she knows what they need, whatthey know, what they need to
(06:07):
know and when they need to knowit.
Uh, she started kits and kinwhen she realized that health is
a team sport and in her houseshe's the coach, but she says
that she actually had bettertools, um, when she was just
involved with travel volleyballwith her kids, so I thought
that's a really interesting wayto put this.
So tell us about kith and kinand maybe let's maybe briefly
(06:32):
about that.
But then I want to hear abouthow, um, you got there, your
previous experience and yourlife and what brought you to
this point.
Jill Michal (06:40):
Well, thanks so much for having me.
So, uh, you know kith and kin'san old fashioned term for
friends and family because weknow that there's no one way
that people care for the peoplethey care about.
And you know, back to theearlier comment, health is a
team sport and, um, we reallyhaven't treated it as such for
many, many decades and I thinkwe're just starting to realize
the impact of people's supportstructure.
(07:01):
And you know, for me, um, youknow, it started down this
journey when I was sitting atyet another of thousands of
health conferences, with peopletalking about adherence, right,
getting people to do whatthey're supposed to do.
And I'm sitting in the audienceand I'm listening to people
talk about, you know, they gotto take their pills and they
have to do this and they have todo that, and they're, like you
know, in the role of doctors andpharmacists and therapists and
(07:23):
sitting there in the audiencegoing do you people understand
that that job is actually mine,right, right, I'm the one who
does that because I'm the mom.
If you want someone to do it,you can give them all the
instructions you want, but ifyou really want somebody to do
it, you tell their mother, right?
So that's kind of how theorganization was born and
figuring out.
You know really how to empowerthe kinkeeper and give them the
(07:46):
tools that they need.
Marc Bernstein (07:47):
There is some overlap with a guest we've had
on the show who I know you know,Glenna Crooks, absolutely.
Jill Michal (07:52):
I was just talking to Glenna yesterday.
Very excellent.
Marc Bernstein (07:54):
So I think I helped reconnect you to this.
She talks about the networkthat everyone has, not just
healthcare but everything youknow.
She inspired me to talk to my90 year old mother about with my
brothers, because we didn'tknow who all her doctors were.
But we didn't weren't reallysure who her hairdresser was
these days, or you know all thepeople that she relies on.
(08:15):
Some of them we knew, some ofthem we didn't know.
So we decided we needed to knowthat.
But you take it a step further,because there is a kinkeeper,
you know, there is somebody incharge generally of that and I
think that's really interesting.
So tell me about your lifeexperience and your work
experience that brought you tothis place of founding this
company.
(08:35):
Kith and kin, yeah.
Jill Michal (08:36):
So I, you know, I always say like from a, from a
professional standpoint, right,I have a very eclectic on paper.
I'm a closet CPA by trade.
I spent eight years in publicaccounting, mostly in the
healthcare and social servicesector.
But then I spent the next 14years at United Way and I loved
(08:58):
that work, I loved the people, Ilove that experience.
It's where I really was able toconnect kind of back to you
made that comment in my bioreally at the human at the
center of the journey and whereI spent so much of my career
trying to figure out how to pushthe boulder uphill.
You want to talk aboutresilience, work in the social
(09:19):
service sector for 14 yearstrying to change systems.
Right, and somebody even askedme recently they're like, really
you couldn't pick anythingeasier than consumer health care
.
Right, you had to pick the onething in health care that's
probably arguably the mostdifficult, and I said I don't.
You know, I feel like my wholelife has kind of prepared me for
this willingness to push sohard on systems and being
(09:44):
willing to celebrate just thatcrack and that start of that
change, because that's reallywhat it is in this space.
It's been about creatingtipping points and that's been a
lot of my career, a lot of mylife.
Marc Bernstein (09:59):
So that brings up a few questions.
I have One.
Well, so obviously you had somechallenges along the way and I
know that you've had to have alot of resilience and I know
some of the way you live.
Your life was inspired by yourmother and the story, the end of
her life and what happened.
Jill Michal (10:16):
Yeah absolutely.
Marc Bernstein (10:17):
You want to talk about that and how you handle
challenges.
Jill Michal (10:20):
Yeah, so.
So my mom passed away when,when I was in my mid 20s, she
actually had breast cancer whenI was probably at that point,
maybe five and and she made itthrough that and which was
amazing because at the time nota lot of people made it through
that and I was thankful to havehad her for another over 20
(10:40):
years.
But she passed away.
She had what they call T celllymphoma, which is like lymphoma
, is like 5% of cancers, and Tcell lymphoma is 5% of lymphoma.
So you know there wasn't a lotof.
You know there wasn't a lot ofresearch, there wasn't, there
wasn't a lot to be able toreally to have hope for at that
(11:01):
point when we kind of starteddown that path and we knew that
that's what it was.
But you know, I spent.
I took a leave of absence frommy work at the time in public
accounting.
I took a three month leave ofabsence.
She went into the hospital onmy birthday in July and she
passed the week before my firstanniversary in October.
(11:21):
But I spent those three months.
I slept in that hospital everyday because I didn't want to
have any regrets.
That was kind of the moment forme where I said, I'm not going
to have any regrets.
I don't.
That's not the way I want tolive my life.
I want to say everything thatneeds to be said and I want to
do things the way I want to dothem and the things that I
(11:46):
believe should be done Not allthe things that society says
that should be done.
Right, because you know there'sa lot of it.
You know I tell people a lot oftimes when they're feeling that
kind of anxiety and pressureI'm like you got to just shed
the shoulds.
People are going to should allover you and tell you all the
things that you're supposed tobe doing in one way or another.
(12:07):
But the reality is you knowyou've got to.
You've got to do the thingsthat that won't put you in the
position in the future to regretthe decisions you make today.
Marc Bernstein (12:18):
So you had, that was a struggle, and you were 25
at the time yeah, pretty youngso to come to that conclusion
that you would have no regretsat 25, a lot of people don't
come to that conclusion muchlater, if they ever do yeah, so
that's pretty.
So you were very fortunate,like you said, to have your
mother all that time and to havethat experience with her and to
be able to spend all that timeto think about it.
(12:39):
Yeah and to come to thatconclusion, that's pretty
amazing.
Tell us a little bit about whatKith and kin can do for people
listening to our show, how youhelp them.
Jill Michal (12:48):
Yeah, absolutely so , kith and kin is.
It's an.
It's an app that basicallyhelps you manage what we advice
can say this on the air weaffectionately refer to as show
of managing health information,right?
So the stuff that you've got intexts and emails, notes on your
phone, documents you downloadfrom your very secure patient
portal and email to yourself sothat you can find them later,
(13:09):
all of that information, youknow, we spent over 1000 hours
just talking to people before wewrote a single line of code,
because we've spent 20 plusyears trying to build consumer
health care tools from thesystem back instead of from the
human forward.
And so we just started to talkto people and, like, tell me how
you do this today?
People like I take pictures, Imake notes, I store documents.
(13:31):
I don't love to fill out forms.
There's no NA in my binder,there's no NA in my life, right?
So we just started to kind ofbuild a solution that actually
mirrors the way people do things.
Right, they make quick notes,they take pictures of everything
from rashes to dischargeprocedures.
Right, they do very simplebehaviors, and we want all of
(13:52):
that information to be able tobe in one place, at your
fingertips and in your control.
Back to your conversation withGlenna right that it's about
sharing the right informationwith the right people, because
the reality is, people said also, I need all that information,
oh, but, by the way, I sharesome information with some
people and other informationwith other people and I need a
solution that helps me do thatand you can do that.
(14:14):
And you can do that with Githand Ken right so you get to
choose who has access to what.
Marc Bernstein (14:19):
And how are you doing with subscription?
I didn't imagine yet.
Jill Michal (14:23):
Yep, it's a subscription.
We just went to market at theend of 2022.
We have our first almost 5,000users and now we're kind of out
in the market looking at B2Bpartnerships, folks who are able
to help us get the word out andbe able to build, whether it's
(14:44):
patient groups, family groups,organizations.
That's the stage we're at today.
Marc Bernstein (14:50):
That's wonderful .
So, and how about?
In this business in particular,what challenges have you faced?
Jill Michal (14:56):
Yeah, so I alluded to it a little bit, right?
So consumer health is not forthe faint of heart, right?
So I said I'm going to gett-shirts made that has who cares
on the front and who pays onthe back, because they seem to
never meet in healthcare.
Right Because you have thisspace of you know there's this.
I would say right now there's,it's an amazing time to be in
(15:18):
the space enabling that personwe call the Kinkeeper we use
that term deliberately,interestingly, because I will
say there's, there's part of thechallenges.
Most people who are in a roleof quote unquote caregiver don't
refer to themselves as acaregiver.
Right, if you've got you know,if you're the parent of a kid
with special needs or you're theadult child of an aging parent,
(15:40):
you don't define yourself as acaregiver, right?
You're a kid, you're a parent,you're someone you know who's
taking care of a loved one.
But so being able to could havebuilt this ecosystem around
these, these folks who aresitting in these roles, has been
incredibly challenging, becausethere's not an economic model
(16:03):
to support that.
Marc Bernstein (16:04):
That's very helpful to hear that, and we're
going to continue in thisconversation right after our.
Announcer (16:09):
It's no secret, when it comes to being able to
confidently manage health,information is everything.
Unfortunately, most peoplelearn the hard way that managing
health information can beoverwhelming, exhausting and
even isolating.
We see you, the Kinkeeper, theone playing air traffic control
for all the appointments andreminders, and central
(16:30):
intelligence making sureeveryone knows what they need to
know when they need to know it.
We created Kith and Kin for youto securely create, organize
and share health information forall of your loved ones all in
one place.
Visit kithandkinapp to sign uptoday and become a more
empowered advocate for those youcare for and about.
Marc Bernstein (16:55):
We are back on Founders Forum with our guest
today, Jill Michal, and AngOnorato is here.
Ang, I've been asking all thequestions.
Do you have anything you'd liketo talk to Jill about?
Ang Onorato (17:05):
Oh well, as always, Marc, you know, I sit back in
the wings sometimes and justhear and think a lot of really
interesting things and I lovethis so much because I mean,
obviously I'm sitting here goingmy whole family, we need this
app.
So I can't wait to get startedon it.
Marc Bernstein (17:20):
But success you got one more subscriber today.
Ang Onorato (17:23):
Yeah, absolutely so .
It's just so needed, and I lovethe.
You know how you're addressingyour target audience and your
clients and the external facingfolks.
I'm also curious about you knowhow have you built the company
on the inside in terms of youknow how would you describe the
culture?
How do you attract people, whattype of person do you look for?
(17:43):
And you know today's workforceis very different.
You know I've been in therecruiting space for many, many
years in the executiveleadership space, so I'm just
curious what's working for youand how do you see this growth
from a team development cultureperspective?
You know, moving, moving downthe road.
Jill Michal (18:00):
Yeah, you know it's interesting that you started
this this session with theconversation about resilience,
right, because that's one of thethings I look for in folks a
fundamental belief in what we'redoing and the perseverance and
resilience to get it done.
Because I will never bringsomeone into our organization
(18:21):
and say come on in, this is easy, this is easy.
You know it'll be, it'll be acakewalk and you know you won't
have to wake up every day andneed to push through.
You know I bring people intothis organization who
fundamentally believe that whatwe are doing is so important,
but also understand that this isgoing to take time.
(18:43):
If we were able to really solvethe quote unquote consumer
health care crisis, right, andthe challenges of this person in
a, in a kinkeeper or caregiverrole, you know we would have
done it in the last 20 years.
It's going to take individualsand organizations really trying
to deeply understand the human.
So I'm always looking forpeople who actually care about
(19:05):
that very deeply personaljourney.
They have a personal story,they're engaged, they have a
belief system that matters.
But from a culture standpoint,I'm always looking for people
who care more about getting itright than about being right.
That's what's Driven the everyteam that I've ever worked on
(19:25):
and that's mattered to me, youknow, probably More than almost
anything.
Marc Bernstein (19:30):
That's wonderful .
You have a lot of greatexpressions and I know there's
honey your guiding principles,and one of them we talked about
and we were talking aboutresilience for you personally
was that you love to do thingsin the face of fear, and you had
another quote around that.
Do you remember that one aboutbehaviors?
Jill Michal (19:48):
Yeah, yeah, somebody gave me some really,
really great advice at thispoint it's probably almost 20
years ago and said you know andnever forget, that you can't
talk yourself out of somethingyou've behaved yourself into,
and so I've that those wordshave lived with me forever
Because you know you can putposters on the wall about your
(20:10):
vision and your values.
You know, but your integrity iswhat you do when nobody's
watching right.
And so being able to be in thatspace and Constantly have to
ensure that your behaviors are ahundred percent aligned with
your belief system and what youtell people you believe, has
(20:31):
really mattered to me personallyover the years, because I've,
you know, you watch far too manyfolks who tell you something
right and then behave in atotally different way.
And there's, you know, that'sjust.
It creates a lot ofinconsistencies and a lot of
lack of organizational,organizational clarity.
And you know, for me, back tothe no regrets, right?
You know I don't have enoughtime to be one person.
(20:53):
Some days I sure as heck can'tbe two people.
Marc Bernstein (20:55):
Right, so it sounds like you have the right
people in place at this point.
Yeah, absolutely.
Jill Michal (21:00):
I have amazing people who are passionate,
committed, consistent, alwaysdeliver, but very clearly deeply
care and are mutuallyaccountable.
Right, because I think it's youknow.
Look, it's easy to To managepeople who report to you.
But I've always said leadersare people who can lead, people
(21:23):
who have the choice not tofollow them.
Right, and so I I love that.
You know we've got a lot ofleaders.
Marc Bernstein (21:31):
How do you find them?
Because I'm sure, becauseeverybody you know, finding good
employees is very difficult outthere today, and Let alone
leaders that you're finding.
How do you do what?
What's your secret to that?
Jill Michal (21:43):
Yeah, it's um, you know, I I really start with the,
the, the mission of theorganization.
As Polly and as that may sound,I need to know that you
actually care about what we'redoing and that you don't believe
that this is just a kind of aSlam dunk day-in, day-out, or
it's just a job, because I'm notgoing to be able to fill your
(22:07):
bucket every day for you.
You're gonna have to come inhere and make sure that you're
coming in fueled by the factthat you believe that what we're
doing is so Fundamentallyimportant.
You're gonna push through,you're gonna push through the
fear, you're gonna push throughthe things that are gonna go
wrong Any day, and so you haveto be able to have that.
(22:28):
You have to be able to havethat at your core and I think
that allows you that and thatpersonal level of accountability
.
When I see that in folks and Itypically have a relationship
with people Before they workwith me, relationship I'll call
it loosely right.
It may not have been years ordecades right, but I have a
sense of who they are as aperson, and that's made it a lot
(22:52):
easier for me to find the rightpeople and the people that I
want to spend time with because,let's face it, when You're in
this kind of business, you spenda lot of time with your people
what sounds like you say thosethings to people off-front and
then you know pretty quickly ifthey're not one of those I would
imagine a hundred percent.
I mean I will say that to peopleany time.
I was just talking to somebodylast week and I said look, you
(23:13):
know we're talking aboutBringing in somebody on the
sales side.
And I said I, I need somebodywho's gonna put their shoulder
to this boulder all day long.
And you're gonna know it's notgonna be easy and and if that's
not for you, that's okay.
That is not the job foreverybody, but you got to know
that coming in right and you'vegot to know what.
(23:33):
You know what we're up againstin the space.
Ang Onorato (23:36):
I think that's such a critical part.
You're almost like an idealRecruiting client, because I
can't tell you how many clientsdon't do that in their hiring
process and then it doesn't workout, and then they're blaming
their recruiter or whatever.
I think that's so important toembody and represent your value
even up front, before the firstinterview.
So I love to hear companiesthat take that approach.
Marc Bernstein (24:00):
We have only three minutes left.
Believe it or not, this timeflies when you're having fun
like this, and this has been areally fun show.
Jill, I know you have a futurevision for your company.
If you were looking out 10years from today and looking
back, what would have to happenin your company and, I suppose,
in your life for you to feellike that was a successful
10-year period?
Jill Michal (24:20):
I would look.
My dream is that everybodyfeels confident in being a
consumer of health and that 10years from now, no matter where
you are you are, you're dealingwith just maybe you're just
dealing with your kids'day-to-day health issues or
you're dealing with,unfortunately, some kind of
severe chronic condition thatyou're able to show up and lean
(24:42):
in and be a first-class citizenin your healthcare, that you
have the information you need,you have the confidence, you
need the idea that healthcare isstressful enough, but if health
information doesn't have to bethat way, you can show up, you
can lean in, you can truly be atrue participant in that journey
(25:02):
.
It's going to change the game.
It's going to fundamentallymake those outcomes different
and it's going to make us feeldifferent both as consumers of
health, but really as impactfuland empowered advocates for the
people we care for and about.
Marc Bernstein (25:17):
So can your app do that?
Because I think you would alsoneed the providers and the
insurance companies to cooperatefor that to happen as well.
Jill Michal (25:25):
Yeah, I think you need a whole ecosystem, right.
So in this space, for me thevision is to create a different
kind of ecosystem aroundcaregiving than we have around
others.
And notice intentionallyecosystem, not set of silos.
This is not a volume play right.
(25:45):
This is this work, this nextevolution.
To achieve that vision, thewhole has to be greater than the
sum of its parts.
Marc Bernstein (25:53):
Well, it's an amazing vision.
You're literally changing theworld with what you're trying to
do, and I know you're verypassionate about it and I
believe you will do it.
We were talking earlier.
You have an interesting way tolook at success.
How do you define success, Jill?
Jill Michal (26:08):
Yeah, success for me is knowing what makes you
happy and being happy when youhave that.
And that sounds easy.
It's so not.
Marc Bernstein (26:19):
Right, I understand that and we were
talking about is that adestination or is that a journey
?
It's a little bit of both, Iwould imagine.
Jill Michal (26:29):
Absolutely.
I also think it's a state ofmind right, Because some days
you're going to feel successful,some days you're not.
But you have to be able tochoose happiness some days, and
that's not always easy.
But to me it's what mattersmore than almost anything.
Marc Bernstein (26:52):
That's great, jill.
You've said a lot today.
We've covered a lot of groundand I've written down several
quotes.
I'm going to use them becauseyou got a lot of great sort of
guiding posts on that.
So thank you for being here.
It really is a pleasure, andeverybody check out Kith and Kin
.
We don't usually do that, but Ido think this is something that
(27:12):
everybody can benefit from,because everybody is caring for
somebody in some way or another.
Thanks so much.
Thanks for listening toFounders Forum and we'll see you
again next week.
Announcer (27:21):
You enjoyed your time with Founders Forum today and
you found value to take with youthroughout your day.
Join us again next week foranother episode of Founders
Forum on WWDB Talk Radio.
Entrepreneur, author and financial consultant, Marc
Bernstein helps high-performingentrepreneurial business owners
create a vision for the futureand follow through on their
goals and intentions.
Ang Onorato is a businessgrowth strategist who blend
psychology and business togetherto create conscious leaders and
business owners who impact theworld.
Founders Forum is a radio showpodcast sharing the real stories
(00:24):
behind entrepreneurship asfounders discover more about
themselves, while providingvaluable lessons and some fun
and entertainment for you.
Now here's Marc and Ang.
Marc Bernstein (00:35):
Good morning America.
How are you this morning?
Good morning America.
How are you?
How are you Arlo?
How are you Ang?
How you doing?
I know you had a rough flight.
Ang Onorato (00:45):
Yeah, it's been some travel nightmares, but you
know that's Thanksgiving travel,I guess, so glad to be home for
now.
Marc Bernstein (00:53):
Good morning to Jill Michal, our guest today.
Jill Michal (00:55):
Good morning.
Marc Bernstein (00:56):
And we will introduce Jill in a moment.
But I'm, you know, thinkingabout.
I was just thinking about thefact that when I used to think
of the word resilience, whichwe've talked about on the show
before, I used to think abouttough times I was in and how I
had to be resilient, or certainpeople I knew that went through
real struggles and they had tobe resilient and come back from
(01:18):
that.
But now I hear that word allthe time, almost every day, and
I'm realizing that it seems likein a lot of ways, businesses
gotten harder.
People were having familyissues, health issues.
We just Enge I know you haveseveral family members with
COVID.
I had the effects of the shotyesterday which felt like COVID,
(01:40):
and that was a struggle for aday.
It's, unfortunately, fine today, but we, you know, we're all.
It just seemed that thingsgoing on in the world, world
events I mean there's tragediesall around in the Middle East
and people that are going tospend lifetimes recovering from
those tragedies, and so I'm justthinking about resilience.
(02:01):
Instead of something that you,like you, have to summon up
every once in a while, it may besomething that you almost have
to use on a daily basis.
So I would like to hear fromboth of you on your thoughts
about that, and you want to gofirst.
Ang Onorato (02:15):
Yeah, you know, Marc, it's a great topic that
you brought back up againbecause, as we shared offline,
we did talk about this a couplemonths ago.
But, as I was mentioning, goingthrough some business struggles
which, honestly, I thoughtwould be, you know, in a
different position in just a fewmonths, but it's really really
taken a lot longer and it's toyour point, it's it's required
(02:35):
me to kind of be more resilientthan even I had prepared and
thought.
So I think a lot of people arein that space.
And then when you add in a lotof the things you mentioned, you
know, family caregiving,national global events, it's, it
is a daily practice, for sure,for sure.
Marc Bernstein (02:51):
We also, you know, I have a new company as of
a year ago and working with alot of the same people I've
worked with for years.
But new company, new vision.
And we had this very grandiosevision and we did it for a year
and a half, six months, beforewe started the company.
And then, since then andrecently, we decided to reset
(03:12):
that.
We realized that while it wasattainable, we had other things
we needed to do first.
So we had to kind of reset, goback to sort of our original
vision with some revisions, andthat required some resilience
and adjustment by my partnersand our staff and everybody.
So so we've gone through that.
Jill, how about you?
What is it?
What occurs to you about?
Jill Michal (03:33):
this, oh Mesh.
Well, you know, this is anentrepreneur, right?
I think I was reading somearticle that said every
entrepreneur goes through atleast a dozen near-death
experiences, right, Right.
And so you know, resilience.
I've never required moreresilience than I have in this
role, but to your point, it justkind of now becomes one of your
core skill sets versus, to yourpoint, something you, you know,
(03:54):
as you said, summon up.
You know you got to summon itup every morning.
Marc Bernstein (03:58):
Right when you get out.
Announcer (03:59):
You're like all right , I'm going to do this right.
Jill Michal (04:01):
I'm going to do this again today and it takes a
lot.
Marc Bernstein (04:05):
Well, I am a believer in and I know Angie
does similar things.
I do these.
I am statements, you know.
I remind myself of what I amand what I'm made of.
I did them this morning beforeI came here, because sometimes
you wake up in the morning andit's like you forget who you are
, you know, forget what, youknow what you're about and those
reminders.
It gives me strength every dayand it's you know.
(04:26):
People pray.
I do some of that too, butthere's a lot of things you can
do to kind of summon up thatpower every day.
I don't know if you have anyroutine about that, Jill, or you
know I don't.
Jill Michal (04:39):
I don't know that I do.
All right, I mean, there's a.
You know there's a lot ofroutine, right, there's a lot of
things that I do to keep myworld kind of calm and focused,
and I think that's how I do itright.
It's for me, it's trying tofigure out how to reduce the
distraction, or at least set itaside and recognize the
(04:59):
difference so that I can reallytry to focus on what matters.
Marc Bernstein (05:03):
I do know you have some things like that,
because I know you have quotesthat you use and we'll get to
those, but I know you havequotes that are very
motivational to you that I thinkyou kind of you know hold up
when you need them, you know,kind of thing.
So let me introduce Jill Michal.
She is CEO and co-founder ofKith and Kin and she will
(05:24):
explain what that means in aminute.
But I want to read you, in thethird person, her bio that she
wrote.
Um, I don't always like to read, but I'm going to read this
because it's I love the way it'swritten.
She is champion for the human,at the center of every
healthcare journey, on a crusadeto bring a sense of confidence
and control to individuals andfamilies who want health to be
(05:47):
done with them and not to them.
As a, you know, as a wife andmother of three children, she's
been the kinkeeper for decades,the one in charge of everyone's
health, playing air trafficcontrol for all the appointments
and reminders, and centralintelligence, making sure, um,
she knows what they need, whatthey know, what they need to
(06:07):
know and when they need to knowit.
Uh, she started kits and kinwhen she realized that health is
a team sport and in her houseshe's the coach, but she says
that she actually had bettertools, um, when she was just
involved with travel volleyballwith her kids, so I thought
that's a really interesting wayto put this.
So tell us about kith and kinand maybe let's maybe briefly
(06:32):
about that.
But then I want to hear abouthow, um, you got there, your
previous experience and yourlife and what brought you to
this point.
Jill Michal (06:40):
Well, thanks so much for having me.
So, uh, you know kith and kin'san old fashioned term for
friends and family because weknow that there's no one way
that people care for the peoplethey care about.
And you know, back to theearlier comment, health is a
team sport and, um, we reallyhaven't treated it as such for
many, many decades and I thinkwe're just starting to realize
the impact of people's supportstructure.
(07:01):
And you know, for me, um, youknow, it started down this
journey when I was sitting atyet another of thousands of
health conferences, with peopletalking about adherence, right,
getting people to do whatthey're supposed to do.
And I'm sitting in the audienceand I'm listening to people
talk about, you know, they gotto take their pills and they
have to do this and they have todo that, and they're, like you
know, in the role of doctors andpharmacists and therapists and
(07:23):
sitting there in the audiencegoing do you people understand
that that job is actually mine,right, right, I'm the one who
does that because I'm the mom.
If you want someone to do it,you can give them all the
instructions you want, but ifyou really want somebody to do
it, you tell their mother, right?
So that's kind of how theorganization was born and
figuring out.
You know really how to empowerthe kinkeeper and give them the
(07:46):
tools that they need.
Marc Bernstein (07:47):
There is some overlap with a guest we've had
on the show who I know you know,Glenna Crooks, absolutely.
Jill Michal (07:52):
I was just talking to Glenna yesterday.
Very excellent.
Marc Bernstein (07:54):
So I think I helped reconnect you to this.
She talks about the networkthat everyone has, not just
healthcare but everything youknow.
She inspired me to talk to my90 year old mother about with my
brothers, because we didn'tknow who all her doctors were.
But we didn't weren't reallysure who her hairdresser was
these days, or you know all thepeople that she relies on.
(08:15):
Some of them we knew, some ofthem we didn't know.
So we decided we needed to knowthat.
But you take it a step further,because there is a kinkeeper,
you know, there is somebody incharge generally of that and I
think that's really interesting.
So tell me about your lifeexperience and your work
experience that brought you tothis place of founding this
company.
(08:35):
Kith and kin, yeah.
Jill Michal (08:36):
So I, you know, I always say like from a, from a
professional standpoint, right,I have a very eclectic on paper.
I'm a closet CPA by trade.
I spent eight years in publicaccounting, mostly in the
healthcare and social servicesector.
But then I spent the next 14years at United Way and I loved
(08:58):
that work, I loved the people, Ilove that experience.
It's where I really was able toconnect kind of back to you
made that comment in my bioreally at the human at the
center of the journey and whereI spent so much of my career
trying to figure out how to pushthe boulder uphill.
You want to talk aboutresilience, work in the social
(09:19):
service sector for 14 yearstrying to change systems.
Right, and somebody even askedme recently they're like, really
you couldn't pick anythingeasier than consumer health care
.
Right, you had to pick the onething in health care that's
probably arguably the mostdifficult, and I said I don't.
You know, I feel like my wholelife has kind of prepared me for
this willingness to push sohard on systems and being
(09:44):
willing to celebrate just thatcrack and that start of that
change, because that's reallywhat it is in this space.
It's been about creatingtipping points and that's been a
lot of my career, a lot of mylife.
Marc Bernstein (09:59):
So that brings up a few questions.
I have One.
Well, so obviously you had somechallenges along the way and I
know that you've had to have alot of resilience and I know
some of the way you live.
Your life was inspired by yourmother and the story, the end of
her life and what happened.
Jill Michal (10:16):
Yeah absolutely.
Marc Bernstein (10:17):
You want to talk about that and how you handle
challenges.
Jill Michal (10:20):
Yeah, so.
So my mom passed away when,when I was in my mid 20s, she
actually had breast cancer whenI was probably at that point,
maybe five and and she made itthrough that and which was
amazing because at the time nota lot of people made it through
that and I was thankful to havehad her for another over 20
(10:40):
years.
But she passed away.
She had what they call T celllymphoma, which is like lymphoma
, is like 5% of cancers, and Tcell lymphoma is 5% of lymphoma.
So you know there wasn't a lotof.
You know there wasn't a lot ofresearch, there wasn't, there
wasn't a lot to be able toreally to have hope for at that
(11:01):
point when we kind of starteddown that path and we knew that
that's what it was.
But you know, I spent.
I took a leave of absence frommy work at the time in public
accounting.
I took a three month leave ofabsence.
She went into the hospital onmy birthday in July and she
passed the week before my firstanniversary in October.
(11:21):
But I spent those three months.
I slept in that hospital everyday because I didn't want to
have any regrets.
That was kind of the moment forme where I said, I'm not going
to have any regrets.
I don't.
That's not the way I want tolive my life.
I want to say everything thatneeds to be said and I want to
do things the way I want to dothem and the things that I
(11:46):
believe should be done Not allthe things that society says
that should be done.
Right, because you know there'sa lot of it.
You know I tell people a lot oftimes when they're feeling that
kind of anxiety and pressureI'm like you got to just shed
the shoulds.
People are going to should allover you and tell you all the
things that you're supposed tobe doing in one way or another.
(12:07):
But the reality is you knowyou've got to.
You've got to do the thingsthat that won't put you in the
position in the future to regretthe decisions you make today.
Marc Bernstein (12:18):
So you had, that was a struggle, and you were 25
at the time yeah, pretty youngso to come to that conclusion
that you would have no regretsat 25, a lot of people don't
come to that conclusion muchlater, if they ever do yeah, so
that's pretty.
So you were very fortunate,like you said, to have your
mother all that time and to havethat experience with her and to
be able to spend all that timeto think about it.
(12:39):
Yeah and to come to thatconclusion, that's pretty
amazing.
Tell us a little bit about whatKith and kin can do for people
listening to our show, how youhelp them.
Jill Michal (12:48):
Yeah, absolutely so , kith and kin is.
It's an.
It's an app that basicallyhelps you manage what we advice
can say this on the air weaffectionately refer to as show
of managing health information,right?
So the stuff that you've got intexts and emails, notes on your
phone, documents you downloadfrom your very secure patient
portal and email to yourself sothat you can find them later,
(13:09):
all of that information, youknow, we spent over 1000 hours
just talking to people before wewrote a single line of code,
because we've spent 20 plusyears trying to build consumer
health care tools from thesystem back instead of from the
human forward.
And so we just started to talkto people and, like, tell me how
you do this today?
People like I take pictures, Imake notes, I store documents.
(13:31):
I don't love to fill out forms.
There's no NA in my binder,there's no NA in my life, right?
So we just started to kind ofbuild a solution that actually
mirrors the way people do things.
Right, they make quick notes,they take pictures of everything
from rashes to dischargeprocedures.
Right, they do very simplebehaviors, and we want all of
(13:52):
that information to be able tobe in one place, at your
fingertips and in your control.
Back to your conversation withGlenna right that it's about
sharing the right informationwith the right people, because
the reality is, people said also, I need all that information,
oh, but, by the way, I sharesome information with some
people and other informationwith other people and I need a
solution that helps me do thatand you can do that.
(14:14):
And you can do that with Githand Ken right so you get to
choose who has access to what.
Marc Bernstein (14:19):
And how are you doing with subscription?
I didn't imagine yet.
Jill Michal (14:23):
Yep, it's a subscription.
We just went to market at theend of 2022.
We have our first almost 5,000users and now we're kind of out
in the market looking at B2Bpartnerships, folks who are able
to help us get the word out andbe able to build, whether it's
(14:44):
patient groups, family groups,organizations.
That's the stage we're at today.
Marc Bernstein (14:50):
That's wonderful .
So, and how about?
In this business in particular,what challenges have you faced?
Jill Michal (14:56):
Yeah, so I alluded to it a little bit, right?
So consumer health is not forthe faint of heart, right?
So I said I'm going to gett-shirts made that has who cares
on the front and who pays onthe back, because they seem to
never meet in healthcare.
Right Because you have thisspace of you know there's this.
I would say right now there's,it's an amazing time to be in
(15:18):
the space enabling that personwe call the Kinkeeper we use
that term deliberately,interestingly, because I will
say there's, there's part of thechallenges.
Most people who are in a roleof quote unquote caregiver don't
refer to themselves as acaregiver.
Right, if you've got you know,if you're the parent of a kid
with special needs or you're theadult child of an aging parent,
(15:40):
you don't define yourself as acaregiver, right?
You're a kid, you're a parent,you're someone you know who's
taking care of a loved one.
But so being able to could havebuilt this ecosystem around
these, these folks who aresitting in these roles, has been
incredibly challenging, becausethere's not an economic model
(16:03):
to support that.
Marc Bernstein (16:04):
That's very helpful to hear that, and we're
going to continue in thisconversation right after our.
Announcer (16:09):
It's no secret, when it comes to being able to
confidently manage health,information is everything.
Unfortunately, most peoplelearn the hard way that managing
health information can beoverwhelming, exhausting and
even isolating.
We see you, the Kinkeeper, theone playing air traffic control
for all the appointments andreminders, and central
(16:30):
intelligence making sureeveryone knows what they need to
know when they need to know it.
We created Kith and Kin for youto securely create, organize
and share health information forall of your loved ones all in
one place.
Visit kithandkinapp to sign uptoday and become a more
empowered advocate for those youcare for and about.
Marc Bernstein (16:55):
We are back on Founders Forum with our guest
today, Jill Michal, and AngOnorato is here.
Ang, I've been asking all thequestions.
Do you have anything you'd liketo talk to Jill about?
Ang Onorato (17:05):
Oh well, as always, Marc, you know, I sit back in
the wings sometimes and justhear and think a lot of really
interesting things and I lovethis so much because I mean,
obviously I'm sitting here goingmy whole family, we need this
app.
So I can't wait to get startedon it.
Marc Bernstein (17:20):
But success you got one more subscriber today.
Ang Onorato (17:23):
Yeah, absolutely so .
It's just so needed, and I lovethe.
You know how you're addressingyour target audience and your
clients and the external facingfolks.
I'm also curious about you knowhow have you built the company
on the inside in terms of youknow how would you describe the
culture?
How do you attract people, whattype of person do you look for?
(17:43):
And you know today's workforceis very different.
You know I've been in therecruiting space for many, many
years in the executiveleadership space, so I'm just
curious what's working for youand how do you see this growth
from a team development cultureperspective?
You know, moving, moving downthe road.
Jill Michal (18:00):
Yeah, you know it's interesting that you started
this this session with theconversation about resilience,
right, because that's one of thethings I look for in folks a
fundamental belief in what we'redoing and the perseverance and
resilience to get it done.
Because I will never bringsomeone into our organization
(18:21):
and say come on in, this is easy, this is easy.
You know it'll be, it'll be acakewalk and you know you won't
have to wake up every day andneed to push through.
You know I bring people intothis organization who
fundamentally believe that whatwe are doing is so important,
but also understand that this isgoing to take time.
(18:43):
If we were able to really solvethe quote unquote consumer
health care crisis, right, andthe challenges of this person in
a, in a kinkeeper or caregiverrole, you know we would have
done it in the last 20 years.
It's going to take individualsand organizations really trying
to deeply understand the human.
So I'm always looking forpeople who actually care about
(19:05):
that very deeply personaljourney.
They have a personal story,they're engaged, they have a
belief system that matters.
But from a culture standpoint,I'm always looking for people
who care more about getting itright than about being right.
That's what's Driven the everyteam that I've ever worked on
(19:25):
and that's mattered to me, youknow, probably More than almost
anything.
Marc Bernstein (19:30):
That's wonderful .
You have a lot of greatexpressions and I know there's
honey your guiding principles,and one of them we talked about
and we were talking aboutresilience for you personally
was that you love to do thingsin the face of fear, and you had
another quote around that.
Do you remember that one aboutbehaviors?
Jill Michal (19:48):
Yeah, yeah, somebody gave me some really,
really great advice at thispoint it's probably almost 20
years ago and said you know andnever forget, that you can't
talk yourself out of somethingyou've behaved yourself into,
and so I've that those wordshave lived with me forever
Because you know you can putposters on the wall about your
(20:10):
vision and your values.
You know, but your integrity iswhat you do when nobody's
watching right.
And so being able to be in thatspace and Constantly have to
ensure that your behaviors are ahundred percent aligned with
your belief system and what youtell people you believe, has
(20:31):
really mattered to me personallyover the years, because I've,
you know, you watch far too manyfolks who tell you something
right and then behave in atotally different way.
And there's, you know, that'sjust.
It creates a lot ofinconsistencies and a lot of
lack of organizational,organizational clarity.
And you know, for me, back tothe no regrets, right?
You know I don't have enoughtime to be one person.
(20:53):
Some days I sure as heck can'tbe two people.
Marc Bernstein (20:55):
Right, so it sounds like you have the right
people in place at this point.
Yeah, absolutely.
Jill Michal (21:00):
I have amazing people who are passionate,
committed, consistent, alwaysdeliver, but very clearly deeply
care and are mutuallyaccountable.
Right, because I think it's youknow.
Look, it's easy to To managepeople who report to you.
But I've always said leadersare people who can lead, people
(21:23):
who have the choice not tofollow them.
Right, and so I I love that.
You know we've got a lot ofleaders.
Marc Bernstein (21:31):
How do you find them?
Because I'm sure, becauseeverybody you know, finding good
employees is very difficult outthere today, and Let alone
leaders that you're finding.
How do you do what?
What's your secret to that?
Jill Michal (21:43):
Yeah, it's um, you know, I I really start with the,
the, the mission of theorganization.
As Polly and as that may sound,I need to know that you
actually care about what we'redoing and that you don't believe
that this is just a kind of aSlam dunk day-in, day-out, or
it's just a job, because I'm notgoing to be able to fill your
(22:07):
bucket every day for you.
You're gonna have to come inhere and make sure that you're
coming in fueled by the factthat you believe that what we're
doing is so Fundamentallyimportant.
You're gonna push through,you're gonna push through the
fear, you're gonna push throughthe things that are gonna go
wrong Any day, and so you haveto be able to have that.
(22:28):
You have to be able to havethat at your core and I think
that allows you that and thatpersonal level of accountability
.
When I see that in folks and Itypically have a relationship
with people Before they workwith me, relationship I'll call
it loosely right.
It may not have been years ordecades right, but I have a
sense of who they are as aperson, and that's made it a lot
(22:52):
easier for me to find the rightpeople and the people that I
want to spend time with because,let's face it, when You're in
this kind of business, you spenda lot of time with your people
what sounds like you say thosethings to people off-front and
then you know pretty quickly ifthey're not one of those I would
imagine a hundred percent.
I mean I will say that to peopleany time.
I was just talking to somebodylast week and I said look, you
(23:13):
know we're talking aboutBringing in somebody on the
sales side.
And I said I, I need somebodywho's gonna put their shoulder
to this boulder all day long.
And you're gonna know it's notgonna be easy and and if that's
not for you, that's okay.
That is not the job foreverybody, but you got to know
that coming in right and you'vegot to know what.
(23:33):
You know what we're up againstin the space.
Ang Onorato (23:36):
I think that's such a critical part.
You're almost like an idealRecruiting client, because I
can't tell you how many clientsdon't do that in their hiring
process and then it doesn't workout, and then they're blaming
their recruiter or whatever.
I think that's so important toembody and represent your value
even up front, before the firstinterview.
So I love to hear companiesthat take that approach.
Marc Bernstein (24:00):
We have only three minutes left.
Believe it or not, this timeflies when you're having fun
like this, and this has been areally fun show.
Jill, I know you have a futurevision for your company.
If you were looking out 10years from today and looking
back, what would have to happenin your company and, I suppose,
in your life for you to feellike that was a successful
10-year period?
Jill Michal (24:20):
I would look.
My dream is that everybodyfeels confident in being a
consumer of health and that 10years from now, no matter where
you are you are, you're dealingwith just maybe you're just
dealing with your kids'day-to-day health issues or
you're dealing with,unfortunately, some kind of
severe chronic condition thatyou're able to show up and lean
(24:42):
in and be a first-class citizenin your healthcare, that you
have the information you need,you have the confidence, you
need the idea that healthcare isstressful enough, but if health
information doesn't have to bethat way, you can show up, you
can lean in, you can truly be atrue participant in that journey
(25:02):
.
It's going to change the game.
It's going to fundamentallymake those outcomes different
and it's going to make us feeldifferent both as consumers of
health, but really as impactfuland empowered advocates for the
people we care for and about.
Marc Bernstein (25:17):
So can your app do that?
Because I think you would alsoneed the providers and the
insurance companies to cooperatefor that to happen as well.
Jill Michal (25:25):
Yeah, I think you need a whole ecosystem, right.
So in this space, for me thevision is to create a different
kind of ecosystem aroundcaregiving than we have around
others.
And notice intentionallyecosystem, not set of silos.
This is not a volume play right.
(25:45):
This is this work, this nextevolution.
To achieve that vision, thewhole has to be greater than the
sum of its parts.
Marc Bernstein (25:53):
Well, it's an amazing vision.
You're literally changing theworld with what you're trying to
do, and I know you're verypassionate about it and I
believe you will do it.
We were talking earlier.
You have an interesting way tolook at success.
How do you define success, Jill?
Jill Michal (26:08):
Yeah, success for me is knowing what makes you
happy and being happy when youhave that.
And that sounds easy.
It's so not.
Marc Bernstein (26:19):
Right, I understand that and we were
talking about is that adestination or is that a journey
?
It's a little bit of both, Iwould imagine.
Jill Michal (26:29):
Absolutely.
I also think it's a state ofmind right, Because some days
you're going to feel successful,some days you're not.
But you have to be able tochoose happiness some days, and
that's not always easy.
But to me it's what mattersmore than almost anything.
Marc Bernstein (26:52):
That's great, jill.
You've said a lot today.
We've covered a lot of groundand I've written down several
quotes.
I'm going to use them becauseyou got a lot of great sort of
guiding posts on that.
So thank you for being here.
It really is a pleasure, andeverybody check out Kith and Kin
.
We don't usually do that, but Ido think this is something that
(27:12):
everybody can benefit from,because everybody is caring for
somebody in some way or another.
Thanks so much.
Thanks for listening toFounders Forum and we'll see you
again next week.
Announcer (27:21):
You enjoyed your time with Founders Forum today and
you found value to take with youthroughout your day.
Join us again next week foranother episode of Founders
Forum on WWDB Talk Radio.
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