December 24, 2025 • 27 mins
What if a cup of coffee could do more than wake you up? Matt Ramsay, founder and co-owner of Denim Coffee, shares how a late-night campus job sparked a mission to build cafés that are about people first, not transactions.
While working 11 PM shifts, Matt noticed students weren’t coming in just for drinks—they were lonely. With over 40% of college students experiencing extreme loneliness, he saw coffee shops as modern “third spaces” where connection matters. The road to building Denim Coffee was anything but smooth: 39 bank rejections, a roaster supplier collapse, and years of barely breaking even alongside his partner, Tony Diehl.
Today, Denim Coffee operates seven locations (with an eighth on the way), employs 80 team members, and lives by a clear philosophy: hire for warmth, train for craft, and define “better coffee” as care for both the customer and the farmer. Matt also dives into the tough economics of coffee—price volatility, sustainability, and why long-term farmer relationships are about justice, not branding.
Innovation plays a role too, from flash-chilled coffee brewed hot and cooled in under 30 seconds to scalable systems that reduce waste while expanding reach. Growth, for Matt, only matters if the mission grows with it.
Key Takeaways:
- Coffee shops as third spaces can combat loneliness
- Justice in coffee starts with supporting farmers
- Hire warmth, train skill—personality can’t be taught
- Hard innovations create real differentiation
- Scale the mission, not just the revenue
About Matt Ramsay:
Matt Ramsay is a former college minister who, along with his wife Kristin and business partner Tony Diehl, has built a coffee roasting business, a bakery, and seven coffee shops across central PA and is currently building their eighth location. Denim helps new coffee shops open and is also uniquely bringing flash-chilled coffee to the market. Matt cares about justice, great coffee, and hospitality.
Connect:
Website denimcoffeecompany.com
LinkedIn linkedin.com/in/matthew-ramsay-06452660/
Facebook facebook.com/DenimCoffee
Instagram instagram.com/denimcoffee
X x.com/DenimCoffee
YouTube youtube.com/@denimcoffee
TikTok tiktok.com/@denimcoffee
This episode is brought to you by Denim Coffee; Pennsylvania specialty coffee roaster with cafés across Central PA—Make Better Coffee. Go to denimcoffeecompany.com to learn more.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Announcer (00:00):
The following programming is sponsored by Marc
J.
Bernstein.
The Views express does notnecessarily reflect the view
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It's management for FacebookMedia Group.
Entrepreneur, Founders also,and financial advisor.
Marc Bernstein helpshigh-performing business owners
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the forward-focused formatentrepreneurs to resources that
(00:23):
fuel their success.
Founders Forum is a radio showand podcast where entrepreneurs
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Join markets for a mix ofinspiration, valuable insights,
and a little fun.
Now let's dive in.
Marc Bernstein (00:40):
Good morning, America.
How are you?
We are here on a beautifulsunny day in Philadelphia.
It's the day after electionday.
Had some changes in the tradewinds of politics, I guess, in
the country, but we're not goingto get into we don't talk about
politics much here.
But I've been listening,listening to radio and watching
(01:01):
TV about the I like POTUS onSirius XM.
I listen to the what's going onin politics.
And it brings up something I'vebeen thinking about the last
couple of weeks.
And we we have in the studioMatt and Vera.
Vera, you've met before.
Matt is new.
I'll introduce him formally ina few minutes.
But I've been thinking, guys,about um what influences me in a
(01:24):
good way and what and in a badway, and what I want to
influence me and what I don'twant to influence me.
I'll give you an example.
There was a time that I wasmost influenced by the books I
read.
But I've been really busy,haven't been reading as many
books, and I find that I'm beingmore influenced by things
around me.
I won't get into my stuff, butI'm curious, I'm gonna ask Vera
first.
And by the way, this is VeraHempel.
Vera Hempel (01:45):
Good morning.
Marc Bernstein (01:46):
Good morning.
And um tell everyone what youdo in a s in a s in a quick
second.
Vera Hempel (01:51):
My name is Vera Hempel, and I am the co-founder
of a user experience consultancycalled Cactus Culp Creative.
Um we are also developing aproduct called KissUX, helping
aging adults navigate userinterfaces more securely and
more confidently to make surethey stay safe and they can
participate in the in the onlineworld.
Marc Bernstein (02:12):
And Vera is a future podcaster.
I I'm teasing her on theFounders Forum Network, I hope,
because she has an organizationcalled Hungry Founders for um
for startups, and it would be aperfect vehicle um to have
podcasts and to connect peoplethat way.
So what do you think about whatinfluences you?
Vera Hempel (02:35):
Well, you know, when you asked me that question
a couple minutes ago, I wasthinking and I was gonna say
something profound like mydaughter and my relationships,
but to be honest, I think it'smy mood and if I have eaten or
not.
Ah and you just have to ask myco-founder Kuba.
Marc Bernstein (02:52):
Right.
Vera Hempel (02:53):
Because if I haven't eaten breakfast, I am
usually not in a good mood.
And I think that is definitelya big influencer of mine.
Marc Bernstein (03:03):
Well, that shows some self-awareness.
That's a good thing.
Vera Hempel (03:06):
For sure.
Marc Bernstein (03:06):
And maybe you haven't had your coffee.
No, I'm just gonna let youknow.
Vera Hempel (03:10):
Today I have had coffee.
Marc Bernstein (03:11):
Okay, we're we're moving into Matt
territory, so and you'll you'llunderstand that in a minute.
How about you, Matt?
What what influences you thatyou notice?
Matt Ramsay (03:19):
Oh, I've uh I've had these this core group of
friends for about 20 years.
And I've been married foralmost 20 years, all these folks
I met in college, and uh welive life together.
So that that's number one isthese relationships around me
that we built a life together.
Nice we meet every week, we goon vacations together, we live
life, we're building housestogether.
You know, this core of peopleis it's partly who I am.
Marc Bernstein (03:42):
It's like your community within a community.
That's right.
That's very cool, or your famthe family you pick.
Matt Ramsay (03:47):
Yeah, that's right, yeah.
Marc Bernstein (03:48):
As well.
Very nice.
All right, so let's introduceMatt.
Matt is Matt Ramsey, he's uh afounder and co-owner of Denham
Coffee, and uh he's a formercollege minister, which is part
of his story, who along with hiswife Kristen and business
partner Tony Deal, say Deal?
That's right, uh, has built acoffee.
(04:08):
I actually met Tony onlinefirst before I met Matt.
He's built a coffee roastingbusiness, a bakery, and seven
coffee shops across centralPennsylvania.
And by the way, thank you forcoming to out to Balakinwood to
do this today.
Oh, yeah, excited to be here.
And currently building theireighth location, and where's
that going to be?
Harrisburg again.
Harrisburg, good.
And Denham help also helps newcoffee shops open and is also
(04:32):
uniquely bringing flash-chilledcoffee to the market, which
we'll get to.
And Matt cares about justice,great coffee, and hospitality.
And the motto, their motto is,and I have to say, I'm I'm I'm I
am ignorant on this because I'mnot a coffee drinker.
Oh no.
I know.
It's bad.
Well, thanks for having me.
And I'm not I'm mad because I II think I'm fascinated by the
(04:56):
coffee business.
I've told you my daughter's inthe coffee business.
I just I never acquired thetaste.
That's all.
Matt Ramsay (05:01):
There's still time, Marc.
Marc Bernstein (05:02):
There's still time you work on me.
But anyway, and maybe becausehis motto, as I was going to
say, is make better coffee.
So maybe that'll do it.
That's right.
That's right.
There we go.
So, Matt, let's talk about yourstory and how you went from
being a college minister um andgot into the coffee business.
Matt Ramsay (05:20):
Yeah, great.
Uh thanks for having me.
Yeah, first of all.
Marc Bernstein (05:23):
Our pleasure.
Yeah.
Matt Ramsay (05:24):
Um Yeah, so we started, uh I I was in college,
I was working.
My first uh coffee job was on acollege campus.
And I loved making drinks.
Now the coffee was terrible.
It was really, really bad.
Uh, but I loved making drinks.
I did that for three years, andstudents would come in late at
night.
Marc Bernstein (05:39):
You knew then that the coffee was bad.
Matt Ramsay (05:41):
Oh yeah, you could tell.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But uh I love making thedrinks, and the students would
come in, and for some reasonthis coffee shop was open until
1 a.m.
in the morning, and studentswould come in alone.
So I'd tell the baristas astory often.
They'd come in, one studentwould come in at 11 at night on
a Thursday and say, uh, can youmake me a smoothie?
And I'd say, Well, why is thatstudent there?
They're there for a smoothie,you know, of course, but but
(06:04):
then they sit down at a table.
Why?
Well, uh over 40% of collegestudents are uh lonely,
extremely lonely.
That that happens in college.
Marc Bernstein (06:13):
Even more so now, I think thanks.
Matt Ramsay (06:15):
Yeah, it could be higher, yeah.
That was a step from a whileago.
Uh, you know, so they're notthere just for the coffee, not
just there for a smoothie.
They're there to be a part of acommunity somewhere.
They're in their dorm roomalone.
They're trying to get outsomewhere.
And so I tell the baristas,this might be the only moment
that person has in a day, in ahard day, that and they're
interacting.
Don't make it a transaction.
You know, don't make it a okay,here's your smoothie, here's
(06:38):
take the money.
Take a moment.
And I would do that withstudents for three years and
realize that, hey, coffee's agateway to relationship building
and that kind of stuff.
And so it might be a a singleparent coming in, might be the
only interaction with an anadult in the day.
Let's make it nice, you know.
It might be a break from work,and work is hard.
We all know.
Might be a break from work,make it nice, you know.
(07:00):
And so coffee is fantastic onits own, but it's also this
gateway to building a community.
Marc Bernstein (07:05):
By the way, in business, I'll tell say people,
hey, let's grab coffee together.
Yeah.
Of course, I don't drink it,but what do you get?
I get my matcha tea.
Oh no.
You don't serve matcha, do you?
Matt Ramsay (07:15):
I have a thing against matcha.
Marc Bernstein (07:16):
I'll get I'll tell you what, I'll try your
coffee if you start if you startbringing a matcha into your
store.
I'm the gonna decline.
There we go.
It's okay.
It's all right.
Um I'll have to go to to get itthen.
Oh no.
Anyway.
Um anyway, so okay, so you uhyou made an observation about
(07:37):
coffee as a gateway.
Then how'd you get started?
Matt Ramsay (07:40):
Yeah.
So we uh I was a minister, youknow, right out of college.
I I I knew that these arecritical years that people are
deciding what they're gonna dowith their life.
I got married in college.
I met my best friends incollege, and I discovered
purpose, you know, what I wantedto do.
And so I knew uh working withyoung students.
Where did you go to college, bythe way?
Shippensburg University, almostgo ship.
Marc Bernstein (07:59):
Nice Pennsylvania State University.
It's fantastic.
Matt Ramsay (08:02):
So uh you know, I knew that was critical.
And and so my first job was aco-op.
It was Ministry and Coffee inHuntington, Pennsylvania with
Junietta College, Standing StoneCoffee Company.
Uh, I was there for the firstyear to open.
And I loved it.
We'd serve coffee, we'd alsomeet students, and we'd talk
about the big questions.
You know, why are we here?
Yep.
Why do we exist at all?
What's our purpose and mission?
(08:23):
And it's great to do that overa cup of coffee.
That's the best way to do it,or matcha, I guess.
Marc Bernstein (08:27):
You know, but thank you for that.
Matt Ramsay (08:29):
But uh I, you know, I really enjoyed that kind of
co-op thing.
And so uh after two years, Imoved back to Shippensburg
University with my community.
Uh and I wanted to do ministryfull-time, but I could only go
part-time.
So I had this other part-time Ihad I had available, and and so
I uh thought I could roastcoffee like I had in Huntington.
We applied for a loan for theroaster.
(08:50):
I went to 40 banks.
It was like 40 asks.
I got shot down 39 times.
Um, and then a community co-op,you know, did half with a bank
and they split the risk.
And uh, we had no rights to uha loan at that point.
I was 25 with one car, youknow.
Um but uh yeah, they took arisk on us.
We opened uh the roastery withno clients.
(09:12):
We almost went bankruptimmediately, and uh we just had
to grow and struggle and hustleto get uh to a three-year point
where we could actually breakeven.
Vera Hempel (09:21):
It's really interesting because you were
talking about loneliness andpeople trying to build community
at coffee shops.
So was that the core problemthat you saw that made you start
your business?
And if there's you know more toit, um, why did you start with
a roastery and what led you toopening that community space,
(09:41):
which is a coffee shop in theend?
Matt Ramsay (09:44):
Yeah, that's a great question.
Yeah, what what motivated me toget into coffee?
Well, A, I saw that that needin our community, our side of
the world is uh coffee is one ofthese third spaces, you know.
If work and home are yourprimary realms, you know, what
are the third spaces?
We used to have bowling leaguesand softball leagues, and we
used to have all these placeswhere people could congregate
outside of work and home.
(10:04):
And now the digital space hastaken that over.
We don't have softball leaguesanymore so much.
We don't have these uh evenchurches and and religious
worship, like those thoseattendances are are down.
So where do you meet peoplethat aren't like you and look
like you and talk like you andthink like you?
Coffee is a great third space,right?
Uh so I was motivated by that.
I saw arts and music andcoffee.
You can do all these different,I'm a jack of all trades kind
(10:25):
of guy.
I like being lost, and Ithought coffee could be a
gateway there.
But but also uh here's a quote.
The m this is thorough, ready?
The mass of men lead lives ofquiet desperation.
Ugh.
You know, and and uh incollege, you're the people
aren't there yet, they're notworn out yet.
You know, they got all thepotential, but but still you
(10:46):
look at work, you know, you lookat people just struggling to
get by.
Uh th that question alwaysplagued me was well, what's the
work for?
What are we working towards?
Is it just a paycheck or isthere something more beyond
that?
You know, that question uhdrove me in coffee to the
justice issues around workers onthe other side of the planet
growing the coffee and gettingpennies on the dollar in the
(11:09):
profit share, uh, just notmaking enough.
And so there's justice there,there's ecological issues across
the planet, how we grow coffee,produce coffee, ship coffee,
how we serve coffee here in theStates.
Uh all single-use cups almostprimarily.
Marc Bernstein (11:23):
Sustainability issues.
Matt Ramsay (11:24):
Sustainability.
So there's all these there'sall these issues in coffee.
And you know, one of thequestions we'd ask students is,
well, what's wrong with theworld?
Right?
And here's the funny thing.
In campus ministry, I did 13years of ministries.
This is this is a lot of askingbig questions of people.
I'd ask the question, I'd standout there and say, What's wrong
with the world?
And the the funny thing is, noone ever came up to me and said
(11:46):
nothing.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
Right.
Matt Ramsay (11:48):
We all know there's something wrong in the world.
Uh you know, we can we candebate about what is wrong in
the world, but we don't knowthere's something wrong.
And that that's a core so forme, what is wrong with coffee,
injustice farmers, ecologicalissues, how we serve it, the
fact that our communities aren'tyou know more united, those are
all issues I was like, uh, ifyou get angry about that stuff,
(12:08):
you could put a lifetime intoit.
Marc Bernstein (12:12):
I think what you're doing is unique.
On the other hand, you do seemore and more coffee shops and
and also some you know uh barsand places of entertainment that
are built around social justiceand community.
It seems to be a trend which Isee as a real positive thing for
the world that that that thatwe're headed in that direction.
Um so you got in we we we heardabout the loan issue.
(12:35):
That was your first bigchallenge.
After that, it's been a smoothride building the business,
right?
Oh, it's been easy street.
Yeah.
Matt Ramsay (12:42):
We got the loans, it's been fantastic.
Marc Bernstein (12:44):
Easy.
So so tell us about some of theother challenges you've had and
from that beginning, what whatstrengths you've developed to
handle those.
Matt Ramsay (12:53):
Great, great, great.
Yeah, the the company thatsupplied our first roaster went
bankrupt after 17 years in inthe industry.
They went bankrupt on thatfirst deal and they shipped us
half a roaster.
unknown (13:02):
Right.
Matt Ramsay (13:02):
So we we had to get the other half.
And uh so before we evenstarted, I I took a long walk
with my wife.
I took a long shower alone andjust meditated on can we can we
keep going or should we sell theother half and just just you
know cut the loss.
unknown (13:16):
Right.
Matt Ramsay (13:16):
And we ultimately decided to keep going,
obviously.
Uh but right up front there wasthis uh, you know, not
everyone's gonna keep theirword, you know, and you're gonna
have to live with that and keepgoing.
Um and uh we got burnt a fewtimes along the way with people
who didn't keep up their end ofthe bargains.
So you learn, oh get acontract, you know, it's just
simple, you know, simple things.
Just but uh uh it was like thatat every step of the way.
(13:37):
I'm not I don't have a businessbackground.
I I had to learn from theschool hard knocks and just make
a lot of mistakes.
And so the struggles have beenmistake after mistake after
mistake, and then uh learn fromit and make a policy or you
know, improve.
And and I'm still I I feel likeI'll be doing that the rest of
my life.
Marc Bernstein (13:54):
You we only have about a minute till break, but
um just tell us a little bitabout how the company's advanced
because now you have you'reworking on your eighth location,
you're doing a lot of wholesalebusiness, you're big into um
the cold coffee business.
Yeah.
So we could talk about that.
So just give us a kind ofoverview of the things you've
done before the break.
Matt Ramsay (14:12):
Great.
We've been doing wholesalecoffee since we got started.
That was we didn't have our owncoffee shop, so we were
supplying to other uh cafes.
Uh and then uh we opened ourown shops.
Tony, my business partner cameon, Tony Dio.
He's fantastic.
Everything you see online isTony Dio, he's amazing.
Uh so we opened up coffee shopstogether and we've been uh
working on this eighth shop inHarrisburg.
(14:32):
But Flash Show is reallyunique.
Flash Show is we we brew coffeehot and we chill it to fridge
temps within 30 seconds.
That's very different from coldbrew, which is typically brewed
over 20 hours at roomtemperature.
You get very different productswhen you brew them differently.
Almost no one on the planetdoes flash chill coffee.
It's too labor intensive, it'sdifficult.
Uh, but the results, it's abetter cup of coffee cold.
(14:54):
And so we uh there's a reasonno one does it, it's very
difficult, but we've been reallytrying to uh lean into that.
And uh we have a distributionnetwork in in five states now
where people can order kegs ofcoffee through our distributor,
which is Odeco, and serve coffeeat their office.
You know, you could have an icecream shop and pull it off a
tap, and now you can pull it hotuh from the same keg.
(15:16):
So we have a littlesuperheater.
So you can keep this keg coldand pull cold and hot coffee
from the same tap.
So you heat it back up afteryou got it.
Marc Bernstein (15:26):
And that's that's innovative, right?
I mean, that's a big innovationin the coffee industry.
Matt Ramsay (15:30):
Yeah, yeah, this could work well well for a lot
of different places, especiallyif you don't want to brew
batches of coffee all day.
You can just pull one cup at atime whenever you need it.
Marc Bernstein (15:37):
Amazing.
Let's take a quick break andwe'll be right back on Founders
Forum.
Tired of serving coffee that doesn’t match the quality of your menu? At Denim Coffee, we help restaurants, cafés, and shops across Pennsylvania serve exceptional, specialty coffee without the waste, hassle, or guesswork. Whether it's flash-chilled kegs that pour hot or cold coffee on demand or a full-service coffee bar, we offer training, equipment discounts, and expert roasting-- all to make it easy to elevate your coffee program.... and your profits. Visit DenimCoffeeCompany.com/wholesale today and serve coffee that’s worth talking about. Denim Coffee--- Make Better Coffee.
(16:15):
We're back on Founders Forum with our guests
today, Matt Ramsey and VeraHempels with me in the studio
today as co-host.
Rutt nice to have you here.
And um so all these things arehappening in the business.
You've got how many employeesdo you have today?
Well, about 80.
About eighty, yeah, it's quitea thing.
Mostly part-time, I assume.
Matt Ramsay (16:35):
Yeah, yeah, a lot of young folks part-time doing
multiple things.
Marc Bernstein (16:38):
And with all these things going on, obviously
there's a culture to thisbecause your your business is
about culture.
What tell us about the cultureof your company and how you're
trying to develop that and howyou do that with part-time
people that are spread out allover the place.
Matt Ramsay (16:53):
Yeah, uh, this is a challenge.
I mean, you talked aboutchallenges.
This is one of the challenges.
Uh yeah, I have things that Ireally care about in coffee.
We care about the hospitality.
Like I said, I don't want theseto be transactions.
You know, I want this to be acommunity.
Uh, and so we have tocommunicate that well.
We have an orientation.
My business partner does rightnow, even though we have eight
employees.
My business partner usuallydoes most of the orientations on
(17:14):
site, in person, one at a time,every hire.
Wow.
Three hours yesterday he was inwith a new hire, you know, just
going through slideshow afterslideshow.
You know, it's like gotten tothe city.
Marc Bernstein (17:23):
He's putting a lot of miles on that.
Matt Ramsay (17:25):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, it was at ourheadquarters.
But it was like, you know, thisis like, you know, there's a
clinic that we go through andand uh, you know, but you can't
train personality.
So we try we try to hire folkswho are going to be warm and
inviting, hospitable, and alsogood at what they do.
I mean, the other part of thatis uh we're trying to make
better coffee.
That's our it's on every shirt,it's on uh like every bag, it's
make better coffee.
(17:45):
So you have to be uh warm andinviting and personable.
You also have to be talentedand good at your craft.
And at the end of the day, it'sa craft and we're trying to be
really, really good at it.
So we do a lot of work ontraining uh there as well.
It takes weeks for people to beable to uh make a latte before
we're we green light them toserve those.
Marc Bernstein (18:02):
So it starts starts with selecting the right
people.
Do you have a specific hiringprocess through which you find
out if they're able to behospitable and yeah, yeah, yeah.
Matt Ramsay (18:12):
Uh yeah.
There's there we go throughinterview questions, we ask a
lot about drama on the job andthat kind of stuff.
We try to find people, getalong with lots of different
folks because it is a communityof all all kinds of people are
welcome to work with us and becustomers in our shop.
So you have to be able to workwith everybody.
Marc Bernstein (18:27):
I would imagine your retention is pretty good
given that all that work thatyou go through to get the right
people and train the rightpeople and build a culture.
Matt Ramsay (18:35):
Uh I I wish I could tell you the stats on that.
I don't know if we're ahead orbehind the curve on that.
I assume we're a little bitahead, but but uh barista is a
high turnover industry.
It's young folks, it's it'soften a first or second job.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
Transition type job.
But we also have folks who haveretired and they want to be
baristas.
We have folks who are doingthis because it's a fun job to
be a part of and serve peopleand be in the community out and
(18:55):
about and be on your feet.
And you know, there's there'ssomething to that too.
Vera Hempel (18:59):
Yeah, as and as someone who has worked in the
hospitality industry and incollege, I can I can account to
that.
It's it's uh it is a fun job.
And I think personality is sucha big part in serving people,
but not only, you know, uhserving your customers, but also
then building that culture fromwithin.
(19:21):
So it sounds like you're reallyfocused on also building that
sustainability um yeah, focuswithin your within your
experience in the company withfrom within.
Matt Ramsay (19:32):
Yeah, yep, absolutely.
And we had one shop, it was alot easier to be on site and
just show people, hey, this ishow we do it, this is what I
like to do.
I like to ask a question of theday to customers if you have
time, come up with something,make make sure it's not just a
transaction.
But when we got the eight shopsand 80 employees, more
difficult.
So, how do you keep doing that?
We have uh really the answer isjust great people that are
doing that for you.
So Kate is our regionalmanager, they're fantastic.
(19:54):
Uh they hire for us, they knowwhat we're looking for, they
have the same values I have onterms of.
The quality and thehospitality, that kind of thing.
So uh the people that it's it'salways the people you work with
that make or break thebusiness, right?
Marc Bernstein (20:07):
Trevor Burrus We um this show is a lot about
future vision um and forwardmovement and all on all that.
And you certainly have a lot ofvision.
Um, I'm gonna ask you aquestion that we didn't prepare
for, but your long-term vision,you can pick whatever time you
want out in the future, but whatare you trying to build?
What do you what do youeventually want to have, Matt?
And then I'm gonna go to theshorter term.
Matt Ramsay (20:27):
Great question.
Uh uh we would play this gamewith students all the time
because most of our ministry isaround work, you know.
Uh and so so the question wouldbe in an ideal world, if you
had a utopia, what would coffeelook like?
And so you gotta go to thefarmers and you gotta say, well,
it it's not poverty, it's notfamine, starvation, and becoming
refugees.
The market swings wildly incoffee.
Marc Bernstein (20:48):
Right.
Matt Ramsay (20:48):
It can go up 300%, it could go down 300%.
And when the market drops forfarmers, they become refugees at
times, they face starvation,and some commit suicide.
This is for for what coffee is,which is beautiful, right?
For the aesthetic beauty thatwe see, there's no nutrition in
coffee, right?
For the beauty of coffee, theprice cannot be starvation.
(21:09):
Skip utopia, go backwards fromthere.
What do we have in the realworld that we have to face?
We have to face issues of ofjustice.
I I need to be at a certainscale to order enough coffee to
make a dent in one community incoffee.
Right now we rely on importersto do a lot of that work to make
sure that we're getting fairwages and taking care of the
environment.
But uh if I could shake handswith farmers and buy in bulk, we
(21:30):
could ship directly uh by boat,then we can uh create long-term
contracts.
We can have less marketinstability for the pricing on
farmers.
And so they can rely and knowthat when they come to market
with their one harvest per year,they have enough to get going
for the next year as well.
Uh that's important to me.
The ecological issues areimportant.
Flash chill, I think, is ispart of the key there that we
could order we could if we cansell more flash chill coffee, we
(21:53):
can order more coffee like thisdown the road.
We'd like to open more shops,obviously.
And our wholesale partners area big part of our mission.
So supporting new coffee shops,we supply equipment, training,
that kind of stuff.
Marc Bernstein (22:03):
I do have to connect you with my daughter.
I think you guys gotta have aconversation because this is the
work she does around the world.
Um, you know, it's try tryingto make life better for the
farmers, and it all starts withthe farmers.
I love that that's I uh I thatsurprised not not that it
surprised me uh you're what theperson that you are would tell
me that's where you would start.
But I was thinking more aboutyou know the culture of your
(22:26):
company and and your service andwhat you're doing in the
communities, but I love that itstarts with the farmer, and
that's what you're thinkingabout.
Matt Ramsay (22:32):
Yeah, it's all connected, it's woven together.
That's why that's one of thereasons we call it denim.
You know, we're all connected.
Marc Bernstein (22:37):
I was gonna ask you about that, and that that
makes a lot of sense.
So now let's look out just likea year.
If it's November of 2026 andwe're talking, and I said, Hey,
how'd the last year go?
What would that have to looklike for you to say, Matt, that
that was a very successful yearin your journey?
Matt Ramsay (22:54):
Yeah, great.
Uh that's a great way to phrasethat question, isn't it?
I've had a lot of practice.
Yeah, you're good at this.
Uh I I think Flash Show is Ithink it's unique.
There's 3,000 coffee roastersin the United States.
We're all roasting coffee.
We're all competing forsourcing the best coffee, and we
try really hard.
I I've got head roasterssampling coffee all the time.
(23:16):
Uh he's amazing.
And so obviously we want tokeep growing our wholesale
coffee supplies, retail, coffeeshops.
Uh, but the the flash show, Ithink if we could work on uh
getting that into a bag and box,because right now it's kegs, if
we could go to bag and box andflash show uh in 2026, we could
ship that further than we canright now.
Marc Bernstein (23:37):
That sounds like that would be b big business
for you, I would think.
That would represent a lot ofgrowth for your business.
Matt Ramsay (23:42):
I think the the market would demand that product
that it would it could become anational product if we could
lean into that some more.
Marc Bernstein (23:49):
By the way, this show is about business owners
and business and business ownersultimately about money, but
it's interesting that none ofthe things we've talked about
has been about financial growthor revenues or um, you know,
it's all been about what you'rehow how you're changing the
world by what you're doing,which which I which makes a lot
of sense given your background,but I think that's really cool.
Matt Ramsay (24:11):
You know, it's yeah, that's a good observation.
We would like to stay inbusiness though, and you know,
turn a profit.
We would like you.
Somebody told me before Istarted, said, uh you can't do
anything good in the world ifyou if you don't make a profit,
Matt.
Marc Bernstein (24:21):
Of course.
Yeah.
Of course.
So that goes hand in hand.
So I'm sure that's part of thevision as well.
Viera, you have anotherquestion for Matt?
Vera Hempel (24:28):
I don't have a question, but I I like that
approach of you know, solvingthe problem and diving into the
problem space and the money willcome.
I think a lot of entrepreneursand business owners face this
issue where they run after themoney.
They, you know, you've you'veexperienced this yourself,
trying to get funding for yourfor your business.
If you're building a physicalproduct or a service or a you
(24:51):
know, a SaaS product.
I think a lot of people arestruggling in that financial
realm that oftentimes themission, the pain points that
they're actually solving foraren't at the forefront anymore,
but I like that you'reapproaching it from that level
because that's that's that's whyyou're doing what you're doing.
And it sounds like you're verypassionate about it.
Marc Bernstein (25:11):
Yeah, yeah, great point.
I we have time for one lastquestion.
Um I know you're a reader.
What what book are youcurrently reading, Matt?
Matt Ramsay (25:19):
Oh God, I uh I've been reading, rereading,
actually, because I'm I'm alittle bit of a philosophy guy,
you know, uh I've uh dabbledaround.
Uh Marcus Aurelius TheMeditations.
Ah, you know, I mean I rereadthat because I hadn't read it in
20 some years.
And uh that and the wisdomliterature from from scriptures,
uh, you know, I've been readingthose both hand in hand a
(25:39):
little bit to get me throughthese times.
Things are changing and and howdo you deal with it?
Well, there's some wisdom in inin recognizing that you can't
change the external forces, thatyou can be the thermostat
instead of the uh thermometer incertain situations.
And uh yeah, that's been that'sbeen helpful for me lately.
Marc Bernstein (25:56):
Aaron Powell By the way, Marcus Aurelius, I I I
so I listened in the car,audible.
Matt Ramsay (26:01):
Yeah.
Marc Bernstein (26:02):
But I found out I I picked the original, like
the original translations.
They're really hard to listento.
Matt Ramsay (26:08):
Well, what what are you listening to?
Marc Bernstein (26:10):
Well, well, um the original so it's it's in
it's sort of in ancient languageas opposed to there's modern
interpretations.
So now I'm trying the moderninterpretation.
Well, you're working in Latin?
No, it's the meditation book,Marcus really.
It's not in Latin, it's inEnglish.
Oh, yes, but it's the stricttranslation of the original
Latin.
Yes, yeah, good.
So that's the issue.
(26:31):
Yeah, yeah.
Um, yeah, we just have a couplemore seconds.
Um one last thing.
Do you have do you have anybook?
What's your next book you'dlike to read?
Matt Ramsay (26:40):
Oh, what's on my list?
Uh just more, more of that.
More uh anything I get in myhead.
I try to stay learning all thetime.
So you know, wisdom is the theorder of priorities.
Marc Bernstein (26:50):
You know, you like nourishing books.
Matt Ramsay (26:51):
Yeah, yeah.
I get my I get my fictionthrough the movies.
Marc Bernstein (26:54):
Excellent.
Well, thank you for being here,Matt.
Vera, thank you for being here.
Vera Hempel (26:58):
Thank you.
Marc Bernstein (26:59):
Thank you, Eric, for doing the engineering.
Thank you, WWDB, and thank youall for listening to Founders
Forum.
And we look forward to beingwith you again next week.
Yeah, go birds! Go birds.
Announcer (27:13):
We hope you enjoyed your time with Founders Forum
and that you found value to takewith you throughout your day.
Join us again next week foranother episode of Founders
Forum on WXKB 10398 D2.
The following programming is sponsored by Marc
J.
Bernstein.
The Views express does notnecessarily reflect the view
statistication.
It's management for FacebookMedia Group.
Entrepreneur, Founders also,and financial advisor.
Marc Bernstein helpshigh-performing business owners
to their business realitythrough its innovative form and
the forward-focused formatentrepreneurs to resources that
(00:23):
fuel their success.
Founders Forum is a radio showand podcast where entrepreneurs
check their journeys, revealingthe lessons they've learned and
the stories behind theirsuccess.
Join markets for a mix ofinspiration, valuable insights,
and a little fun.
Now let's dive in.
Marc Bernstein (00:40):
Good morning, America.
How are you?
We are here on a beautifulsunny day in Philadelphia.
It's the day after electionday.
Had some changes in the tradewinds of politics, I guess, in
the country, but we're not goingto get into we don't talk about
politics much here.
But I've been listening,listening to radio and watching
(01:01):
TV about the I like POTUS onSirius XM.
I listen to the what's going onin politics.
And it brings up something I'vebeen thinking about the last
couple of weeks.
And we we have in the studioMatt and Vera.
Vera, you've met before.
Matt is new.
I'll introduce him formally ina few minutes.
But I've been thinking, guys,about um what influences me in a
(01:24):
good way and what and in a badway, and what I want to
influence me and what I don'twant to influence me.
I'll give you an example.
There was a time that I wasmost influenced by the books I
read.
But I've been really busy,haven't been reading as many
books, and I find that I'm beingmore influenced by things
around me.
I won't get into my stuff, butI'm curious, I'm gonna ask Vera
first.
And by the way, this is VeraHempel.
Vera Hempel (01:45):
Good morning.
Marc Bernstein (01:46):
Good morning.
And um tell everyone what youdo in a s in a s in a quick
second.
Vera Hempel (01:51):
My name is Vera Hempel, and I am the co-founder
of a user experience consultancycalled Cactus Culp Creative.
Um we are also developing aproduct called KissUX, helping
aging adults navigate userinterfaces more securely and
more confidently to make surethey stay safe and they can
participate in the in the onlineworld.
Marc Bernstein (02:12):
And Vera is a future podcaster.
I I'm teasing her on theFounders Forum Network, I hope,
because she has an organizationcalled Hungry Founders for um
for startups, and it would be aperfect vehicle um to have
podcasts and to connect peoplethat way.
So what do you think about whatinfluences you?
Vera Hempel (02:35):
Well, you know, when you asked me that question
a couple minutes ago, I wasthinking and I was gonna say
something profound like mydaughter and my relationships,
but to be honest, I think it'smy mood and if I have eaten or
not.
Ah and you just have to ask myco-founder Kuba.
Marc Bernstein (02:52):
Right.
Vera Hempel (02:53):
Because if I haven't eaten breakfast, I am
usually not in a good mood.
And I think that is definitelya big influencer of mine.
Marc Bernstein (03:03):
Well, that shows some self-awareness.
That's a good thing.
Vera Hempel (03:06):
For sure.
Marc Bernstein (03:06):
And maybe you haven't had your coffee.
No, I'm just gonna let youknow.
Vera Hempel (03:10):
Today I have had coffee.
Marc Bernstein (03:11):
Okay, we're we're moving into Matt
territory, so and you'll you'llunderstand that in a minute.
How about you, Matt?
What what influences you thatyou notice?
Matt Ramsay (03:19):
Oh, I've uh I've had these this core group of
friends for about 20 years.
And I've been married foralmost 20 years, all these folks
I met in college, and uh welive life together.
So that that's number one isthese relationships around me
that we built a life together.
Nice we meet every week, we goon vacations together, we live
life, we're building housestogether.
You know, this core of peopleis it's partly who I am.
Marc Bernstein (03:42):
It's like your community within a community.
That's right.
That's very cool, or your famthe family you pick.
Matt Ramsay (03:47):
Yeah, that's right, yeah.
Marc Bernstein (03:48):
As well.
Very nice.
All right, so let's introduceMatt.
Matt is Matt Ramsey, he's uh afounder and co-owner of Denham
Coffee, and uh he's a formercollege minister, which is part
of his story, who along with hiswife Kristen and business
partner Tony Deal, say Deal?
That's right, uh, has built acoffee.
(04:08):
I actually met Tony onlinefirst before I met Matt.
He's built a coffee roastingbusiness, a bakery, and seven
coffee shops across centralPennsylvania.
And by the way, thank you forcoming to out to Balakinwood to
do this today.
Oh, yeah, excited to be here.
And currently building theireighth location, and where's
that going to be?
Harrisburg again.
Harrisburg, good.
And Denham help also helps newcoffee shops open and is also
(04:32):
uniquely bringing flash-chilledcoffee to the market, which
we'll get to.
And Matt cares about justice,great coffee, and hospitality.
And the motto, their motto is,and I have to say, I'm I'm I'm I
am ignorant on this because I'mnot a coffee drinker.
Oh no.
I know.
It's bad.
Well, thanks for having me.
And I'm not I'm mad because I II think I'm fascinated by the
(04:56):
coffee business.
I've told you my daughter's inthe coffee business.
I just I never acquired thetaste.
That's all.
Matt Ramsay (05:01):
There's still time, Marc.
Marc Bernstein (05:02):
There's still time you work on me.
But anyway, and maybe becausehis motto, as I was going to
say, is make better coffee.
So maybe that'll do it.
That's right.
That's right.
There we go.
So, Matt, let's talk about yourstory and how you went from
being a college minister um andgot into the coffee business.
Matt Ramsay (05:20):
Yeah, great.
Uh thanks for having me.
Yeah, first of all.
Marc Bernstein (05:23):
Our pleasure.
Yeah.
Matt Ramsay (05:24):
Um Yeah, so we started, uh I I was in college,
I was working.
My first uh coffee job was on acollege campus.
And I loved making drinks.
Now the coffee was terrible.
It was really, really bad.
Uh, but I loved making drinks.
I did that for three years, andstudents would come in late at
night.
Marc Bernstein (05:39):
You knew then that the coffee was bad.
Matt Ramsay (05:41):
Oh yeah, you could tell.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But uh I love making thedrinks, and the students would
come in, and for some reasonthis coffee shop was open until
1 a.m.
in the morning, and studentswould come in alone.
So I'd tell the baristas astory often.
They'd come in, one studentwould come in at 11 at night on
a Thursday and say, uh, can youmake me a smoothie?
And I'd say, Well, why is thatstudent there?
They're there for a smoothie,you know, of course, but but
(06:04):
then they sit down at a table.
Why?
Well, uh over 40% of collegestudents are uh lonely,
extremely lonely.
That that happens in college.
Marc Bernstein (06:13):
Even more so now, I think thanks.
Matt Ramsay (06:15):
Yeah, it could be higher, yeah.
That was a step from a whileago.
Uh, you know, so they're notthere just for the coffee, not
just there for a smoothie.
They're there to be a part of acommunity somewhere.
They're in their dorm roomalone.
They're trying to get outsomewhere.
And so I tell the baristas,this might be the only moment
that person has in a day, in ahard day, that and they're
interacting.
Don't make it a transaction.
You know, don't make it a okay,here's your smoothie, here's
(06:38):
take the money.
Take a moment.
And I would do that withstudents for three years and
realize that, hey, coffee's agateway to relationship building
and that kind of stuff.
And so it might be a a singleparent coming in, might be the
only interaction with an anadult in the day.
Let's make it nice, you know.
It might be a break from work,and work is hard.
We all know.
Might be a break from work,make it nice, you know.
(07:00):
And so coffee is fantastic onits own, but it's also this
gateway to building a community.
Marc Bernstein (07:05):
By the way, in business, I'll tell say people,
hey, let's grab coffee together.
Yeah.
Of course, I don't drink it,but what do you get?
I get my matcha tea.
Oh no.
You don't serve matcha, do you?
Matt Ramsay (07:15):
I have a thing against matcha.
Marc Bernstein (07:16):
I'll get I'll tell you what, I'll try your
coffee if you start if you startbringing a matcha into your
store.
I'm the gonna decline.
There we go.
It's okay.
It's all right.
Um I'll have to go to to get itthen.
Oh no.
Anyway.
Um anyway, so okay, so you uhyou made an observation about
(07:37):
coffee as a gateway.
Then how'd you get started?
Matt Ramsay (07:40):
Yeah.
So we uh I was a minister, youknow, right out of college.
I I I knew that these arecritical years that people are
deciding what they're gonna dowith their life.
I got married in college.
I met my best friends incollege, and I discovered
purpose, you know, what I wantedto do.
And so I knew uh working withyoung students.
Where did you go to college, bythe way?
Shippensburg University, almostgo ship.
Marc Bernstein (07:59):
Nice Pennsylvania State University.
It's fantastic.
Matt Ramsay (08:02):
So uh you know, I knew that was critical.
And and so my first job was aco-op.
It was Ministry and Coffee inHuntington, Pennsylvania with
Junietta College, Standing StoneCoffee Company.
Uh, I was there for the firstyear to open.
And I loved it.
We'd serve coffee, we'd alsomeet students, and we'd talk
about the big questions.
You know, why are we here?
Yep.
Why do we exist at all?
What's our purpose and mission?
(08:23):
And it's great to do that overa cup of coffee.
That's the best way to do it,or matcha, I guess.
Marc Bernstein (08:27):
You know, but thank you for that.
Matt Ramsay (08:29):
But uh I, you know, I really enjoyed that kind of
co-op thing.
And so uh after two years, Imoved back to Shippensburg
University with my community.
Uh and I wanted to do ministryfull-time, but I could only go
part-time.
So I had this other part-time Ihad I had available, and and so
I uh thought I could roastcoffee like I had in Huntington.
We applied for a loan for theroaster.
(08:50):
I went to 40 banks.
It was like 40 asks.
I got shot down 39 times.
Um, and then a community co-op,you know, did half with a bank
and they split the risk.
And uh, we had no rights to uha loan at that point.
I was 25 with one car, youknow.
Um but uh yeah, they took arisk on us.
We opened uh the roastery withno clients.
(09:12):
We almost went bankruptimmediately, and uh we just had
to grow and struggle and hustleto get uh to a three-year point
where we could actually breakeven.
Vera Hempel (09:21):
It's really interesting because you were
talking about loneliness andpeople trying to build community
at coffee shops.
So was that the core problemthat you saw that made you start
your business?
And if there's you know more toit, um, why did you start with
a roastery and what led you toopening that community space,
(09:41):
which is a coffee shop in theend?
Matt Ramsay (09:44):
Yeah, that's a great question.
Yeah, what what motivated me toget into coffee?
Well, A, I saw that that needin our community, our side of
the world is uh coffee is one ofthese third spaces, you know.
If work and home are yourprimary realms, you know, what
are the third spaces?
We used to have bowling leaguesand softball leagues, and we
used to have all these placeswhere people could congregate
outside of work and home.
(10:04):
And now the digital space hastaken that over.
We don't have softball leaguesanymore so much.
We don't have these uh evenchurches and and religious
worship, like those thoseattendances are are down.
So where do you meet peoplethat aren't like you and look
like you and talk like you andthink like you?
Coffee is a great third space,right?
Uh so I was motivated by that.
I saw arts and music andcoffee.
You can do all these different,I'm a jack of all trades kind
(10:25):
of guy.
I like being lost, and Ithought coffee could be a
gateway there.
But but also uh here's a quote.
The m this is thorough, ready?
The mass of men lead lives ofquiet desperation.
Ugh.
You know, and and uh incollege, you're the people
aren't there yet, they're notworn out yet.
You know, they got all thepotential, but but still you
(10:46):
look at work, you know, you lookat people just struggling to
get by.
Uh th that question alwaysplagued me was well, what's the
work for?
What are we working towards?
Is it just a paycheck or isthere something more beyond
that?
You know, that question uhdrove me in coffee to the
justice issues around workers onthe other side of the planet
growing the coffee and gettingpennies on the dollar in the
(11:09):
profit share, uh, just notmaking enough.
And so there's justice there,there's ecological issues across
the planet, how we grow coffee,produce coffee, ship coffee,
how we serve coffee here in theStates.
Uh all single-use cups almostprimarily.
Marc Bernstein (11:23):
Sustainability issues.
Matt Ramsay (11:24):
Sustainability.
So there's all these there'sall these issues in coffee.
And you know, one of thequestions we'd ask students is,
well, what's wrong with theworld?
Right?
And here's the funny thing.
In campus ministry, I did 13years of ministries.
This is this is a lot of askingbig questions of people.
I'd ask the question, I'd standout there and say, What's wrong
with the world?
And the the funny thing is, noone ever came up to me and said
(11:46):
nothing.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
Right.
Matt Ramsay (11:48):
We all know there's something wrong in the world.
Uh you know, we can we candebate about what is wrong in
the world, but we don't knowthere's something wrong.
And that that's a core so forme, what is wrong with coffee,
injustice farmers, ecologicalissues, how we serve it, the
fact that our communities aren'tyou know more united, those are
all issues I was like, uh, ifyou get angry about that stuff,
(12:08):
you could put a lifetime intoit.
Marc Bernstein (12:12):
I think what you're doing is unique.
On the other hand, you do seemore and more coffee shops and
and also some you know uh barsand places of entertainment that
are built around social justiceand community.
It seems to be a trend which Isee as a real positive thing for
the world that that that thatwe're headed in that direction.
Um so you got in we we we heardabout the loan issue.
(12:35):
That was your first bigchallenge.
After that, it's been a smoothride building the business,
right?
Oh, it's been easy street.
Yeah.
Matt Ramsay (12:42):
We got the loans, it's been fantastic.
Marc Bernstein (12:44):
Easy.
So so tell us about some of theother challenges you've had and
from that beginning, what whatstrengths you've developed to
handle those.
Matt Ramsay (12:53):
Great, great, great.
Yeah, the the company thatsupplied our first roaster went
bankrupt after 17 years in inthe industry.
They went bankrupt on thatfirst deal and they shipped us
half a roaster.
unknown (13:02):
Right.
Matt Ramsay (13:02):
So we we had to get the other half.
And uh so before we evenstarted, I I took a long walk
with my wife.
I took a long shower alone andjust meditated on can we can we
keep going or should we sell theother half and just just you
know cut the loss.
unknown (13:16):
Right.
Matt Ramsay (13:16):
And we ultimately decided to keep going,
obviously.
Uh but right up front there wasthis uh, you know, not
everyone's gonna keep theirword, you know, and you're gonna
have to live with that and keepgoing.
Um and uh we got burnt a fewtimes along the way with people
who didn't keep up their end ofthe bargains.
So you learn, oh get acontract, you know, it's just
simple, you know, simple things.
Just but uh uh it was like thatat every step of the way.
(13:37):
I'm not I don't have a businessbackground.
I I had to learn from theschool hard knocks and just make
a lot of mistakes.
And so the struggles have beenmistake after mistake after
mistake, and then uh learn fromit and make a policy or you
know, improve.
And and I'm still I I feel likeI'll be doing that the rest of
my life.
Marc Bernstein (13:54):
You we only have about a minute till break, but
um just tell us a little bitabout how the company's advanced
because now you have you'reworking on your eighth location,
you're doing a lot of wholesalebusiness, you're big into um
the cold coffee business.
Yeah.
So we could talk about that.
So just give us a kind ofoverview of the things you've
done before the break.
Matt Ramsay (14:12):
Great.
We've been doing wholesalecoffee since we got started.
That was we didn't have our owncoffee shop, so we were
supplying to other uh cafes.
Uh and then uh we opened ourown shops.
Tony, my business partner cameon, Tony Dio.
He's fantastic.
Everything you see online isTony Dio, he's amazing.
Uh so we opened up coffee shopstogether and we've been uh
working on this eighth shop inHarrisburg.
(14:32):
But Flash Show is reallyunique.
Flash Show is we we brew coffeehot and we chill it to fridge
temps within 30 seconds.
That's very different from coldbrew, which is typically brewed
over 20 hours at roomtemperature.
You get very different productswhen you brew them differently.
Almost no one on the planetdoes flash chill coffee.
It's too labor intensive, it'sdifficult.
Uh, but the results, it's abetter cup of coffee cold.
(14:54):
And so we uh there's a reasonno one does it, it's very
difficult, but we've been reallytrying to uh lean into that.
And uh we have a distributionnetwork in in five states now
where people can order kegs ofcoffee through our distributor,
which is Odeco, and serve coffeeat their office.
You know, you could have an icecream shop and pull it off a
tap, and now you can pull it hotuh from the same keg.
(15:16):
So we have a littlesuperheater.
So you can keep this keg coldand pull cold and hot coffee
from the same tap.
So you heat it back up afteryou got it.
Marc Bernstein (15:26):
And that's that's innovative, right?
I mean, that's a big innovationin the coffee industry.
Matt Ramsay (15:30):
Yeah, yeah, this could work well well for a lot
of different places, especiallyif you don't want to brew
batches of coffee all day.
You can just pull one cup at atime whenever you need it.
Marc Bernstein (15:37):
Amazing.
Let's take a quick break andwe'll be right back on Founders
Forum.
Tired of serving coffee that doesn’t match the quality of your menu? At Denim Coffee, we help restaurants, cafés, and shops across Pennsylvania serve exceptional, specialty coffee without the waste, hassle, or guesswork. Whether it's flash-chilled kegs that pour hot or cold coffee on demand or a full-service coffee bar, we offer training, equipment discounts, and expert roasting-- all to make it easy to elevate your coffee program.... and your profits. Visit DenimCoffeeCompany.com/wholesale today and serve coffee that’s worth talking about. Denim Coffee--- Make Better Coffee.
(16:15):
We're back on Founders Forum with our guests
today, Matt Ramsey and VeraHempels with me in the studio
today as co-host.
Rutt nice to have you here.
And um so all these things arehappening in the business.
You've got how many employeesdo you have today?
Well, about 80.
About eighty, yeah, it's quitea thing.
Mostly part-time, I assume.
Matt Ramsay (16:35):
Yeah, yeah, a lot of young folks part-time doing
multiple things.
Marc Bernstein (16:38):
And with all these things going on, obviously
there's a culture to thisbecause your your business is
about culture.
What tell us about the cultureof your company and how you're
trying to develop that and howyou do that with part-time
people that are spread out allover the place.
Matt Ramsay (16:53):
Yeah, uh, this is a challenge.
I mean, you talked aboutchallenges.
This is one of the challenges.
Uh yeah, I have things that Ireally care about in coffee.
We care about the hospitality.
Like I said, I don't want theseto be transactions.
You know, I want this to be acommunity.
Uh, and so we have tocommunicate that well.
We have an orientation.
My business partner does rightnow, even though we have eight
employees.
My business partner usuallydoes most of the orientations on
(17:14):
site, in person, one at a time,every hire.
Wow.
Three hours yesterday he was inwith a new hire, you know, just
going through slideshow afterslideshow.
You know, it's like gotten tothe city.
Marc Bernstein (17:23):
He's putting a lot of miles on that.
Matt Ramsay (17:25):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, it was at ourheadquarters.
But it was like, you know, thisis like, you know, there's a
clinic that we go through andand uh, you know, but you can't
train personality.
So we try we try to hire folkswho are going to be warm and
inviting, hospitable, and alsogood at what they do.
I mean, the other part of thatis uh we're trying to make
better coffee.
That's our it's on every shirt,it's on uh like every bag, it's
make better coffee.
(17:45):
So you have to be uh warm andinviting and personable.
You also have to be talentedand good at your craft.
And at the end of the day, it'sa craft and we're trying to be
really, really good at it.
So we do a lot of work ontraining uh there as well.
It takes weeks for people to beable to uh make a latte before
we're we green light them toserve those.
Marc Bernstein (18:02):
So it starts starts with selecting the right
people.
Do you have a specific hiringprocess through which you find
out if they're able to behospitable and yeah, yeah, yeah.
Matt Ramsay (18:12):
Uh yeah.
There's there we go throughinterview questions, we ask a
lot about drama on the job andthat kind of stuff.
We try to find people, getalong with lots of different
folks because it is a communityof all all kinds of people are
welcome to work with us and becustomers in our shop.
So you have to be able to workwith everybody.
Marc Bernstein (18:27):
I would imagine your retention is pretty good
given that all that work thatyou go through to get the right
people and train the rightpeople and build a culture.
Matt Ramsay (18:35):
Uh I I wish I could tell you the stats on that.
I don't know if we're ahead orbehind the curve on that.
I assume we're a little bitahead, but but uh barista is a
high turnover industry.
It's young folks, it's it'soften a first or second job.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
Transition type job.
But we also have folks who haveretired and they want to be
baristas.
We have folks who are doingthis because it's a fun job to
be a part of and serve peopleand be in the community out and
(18:55):
about and be on your feet.
And you know, there's there'ssomething to that too.
Vera Hempel (18:59):
Yeah, as and as someone who has worked in the
hospitality industry and incollege, I can I can account to
that.
It's it's uh it is a fun job.
And I think personality is sucha big part in serving people,
but not only, you know, uhserving your customers, but also
then building that culture fromwithin.
(19:21):
So it sounds like you're reallyfocused on also building that
sustainability um yeah, focuswithin your within your
experience in the company withfrom within.
Matt Ramsay (19:32):
Yeah, yep, absolutely.
And we had one shop, it was alot easier to be on site and
just show people, hey, this ishow we do it, this is what I
like to do.
I like to ask a question of theday to customers if you have
time, come up with something,make make sure it's not just a
transaction.
But when we got the eight shopsand 80 employees, more
difficult.
So, how do you keep doing that?
We have uh really the answer isjust great people that are
doing that for you.
So Kate is our regionalmanager, they're fantastic.
(19:54):
Uh they hire for us, they knowwhat we're looking for, they
have the same values I have onterms of.
The quality and thehospitality, that kind of thing.
So uh the people that it's it'salways the people you work with
that make or break thebusiness, right?
Marc Bernstein (20:07):
Trevor Burrus We um this show is a lot about
future vision um and forwardmovement and all on all that.
And you certainly have a lot ofvision.
Um, I'm gonna ask you aquestion that we didn't prepare
for, but your long-term vision,you can pick whatever time you
want out in the future, but whatare you trying to build?
What do you what do youeventually want to have, Matt?
And then I'm gonna go to theshorter term.
Matt Ramsay (20:27):
Great question.
Uh uh we would play this gamewith students all the time
because most of our ministry isaround work, you know.
Uh and so so the question wouldbe in an ideal world, if you
had a utopia, what would coffeelook like?
And so you gotta go to thefarmers and you gotta say, well,
it it's not poverty, it's notfamine, starvation, and becoming
refugees.
The market swings wildly incoffee.
Marc Bernstein (20:48):
Right.
Matt Ramsay (20:48):
It can go up 300%, it could go down 300%.
And when the market drops forfarmers, they become refugees at
times, they face starvation,and some commit suicide.
This is for for what coffee is,which is beautiful, right?
For the aesthetic beauty thatwe see, there's no nutrition in
coffee, right?
For the beauty of coffee, theprice cannot be starvation.
(21:09):
Skip utopia, go backwards fromthere.
What do we have in the realworld that we have to face?
We have to face issues of ofjustice.
I I need to be at a certainscale to order enough coffee to
make a dent in one community incoffee.
Right now we rely on importersto do a lot of that work to make
sure that we're getting fairwages and taking care of the
environment.
But uh if I could shake handswith farmers and buy in bulk, we
(21:30):
could ship directly uh by boat,then we can uh create long-term
contracts.
We can have less marketinstability for the pricing on
farmers.
And so they can rely and knowthat when they come to market
with their one harvest per year,they have enough to get going
for the next year as well.
Uh that's important to me.
The ecological issues areimportant.
Flash chill, I think, is ispart of the key there that we
could order we could if we cansell more flash chill coffee, we
(21:53):
can order more coffee like thisdown the road.
We'd like to open more shops,obviously.
And our wholesale partners area big part of our mission.
So supporting new coffee shops,we supply equipment, training,
that kind of stuff.
Marc Bernstein (22:03):
I do have to connect you with my daughter.
I think you guys gotta have aconversation because this is the
work she does around the world.
Um, you know, it's try tryingto make life better for the
farmers, and it all starts withthe farmers.
I love that that's I uh I thatsurprised not not that it
surprised me uh you're what theperson that you are would tell
me that's where you would start.
But I was thinking more aboutyou know the culture of your
(22:26):
company and and your service andwhat you're doing in the
communities, but I love that itstarts with the farmer, and
that's what you're thinkingabout.
Matt Ramsay (22:32):
Yeah, it's all connected, it's woven together.
That's why that's one of thereasons we call it denim.
You know, we're all connected.
Marc Bernstein (22:37):
I was gonna ask you about that, and that that
makes a lot of sense.
So now let's look out just likea year.
If it's November of 2026 andwe're talking, and I said, Hey,
how'd the last year go?
What would that have to looklike for you to say, Matt, that
that was a very successful yearin your journey?
Matt Ramsay (22:54):
Yeah, great.
Uh that's a great way to phrasethat question, isn't it?
I've had a lot of practice.
Yeah, you're good at this.
Uh I I think Flash Show is Ithink it's unique.
There's 3,000 coffee roastersin the United States.
We're all roasting coffee.
We're all competing forsourcing the best coffee, and we
try really hard.
I I've got head roasterssampling coffee all the time.
(23:16):
Uh he's amazing.
And so obviously we want tokeep growing our wholesale
coffee supplies, retail, coffeeshops.
Uh, but the the flash show, Ithink if we could work on uh
getting that into a bag and box,because right now it's kegs, if
we could go to bag and box andflash show uh in 2026, we could
ship that further than we canright now.
Marc Bernstein (23:37):
That sounds like that would be b big business
for you, I would think.
That would represent a lot ofgrowth for your business.
Matt Ramsay (23:42):
I think the the market would demand that product
that it would it could become anational product if we could
lean into that some more.
Marc Bernstein (23:49):
By the way, this show is about business owners
and business and business ownersultimately about money, but
it's interesting that none ofthe things we've talked about
has been about financial growthor revenues or um, you know,
it's all been about what you'rehow how you're changing the
world by what you're doing,which which I which makes a lot
of sense given your background,but I think that's really cool.
Matt Ramsay (24:11):
You know, it's yeah, that's a good observation.
We would like to stay inbusiness though, and you know,
turn a profit.
We would like you.
Somebody told me before Istarted, said, uh you can't do
anything good in the world ifyou if you don't make a profit,
Matt.
Marc Bernstein (24:21):
Of course.
Yeah.
Of course.
So that goes hand in hand.
So I'm sure that's part of thevision as well.
Viera, you have anotherquestion for Matt?
Vera Hempel (24:28):
I don't have a question, but I I like that
approach of you know, solvingthe problem and diving into the
problem space and the money willcome.
I think a lot of entrepreneursand business owners face this
issue where they run after themoney.
They, you know, you've you'veexperienced this yourself,
trying to get funding for yourfor your business.
If you're building a physicalproduct or a service or a you
(24:51):
know, a SaaS product.
I think a lot of people arestruggling in that financial
realm that oftentimes themission, the pain points that
they're actually solving foraren't at the forefront anymore,
but I like that you'reapproaching it from that level
because that's that's that's whyyou're doing what you're doing.
And it sounds like you're verypassionate about it.
Marc Bernstein (25:11):
Yeah, yeah, great point.
I we have time for one lastquestion.
Um I know you're a reader.
What what book are youcurrently reading, Matt?
Matt Ramsay (25:19):
Oh God, I uh I've been reading, rereading,
actually, because I'm I'm alittle bit of a philosophy guy,
you know, uh I've uh dabbledaround.
Uh Marcus Aurelius TheMeditations.
Ah, you know, I mean I rereadthat because I hadn't read it in
20 some years.
And uh that and the wisdomliterature from from scriptures,
uh, you know, I've been readingthose both hand in hand a
(25:39):
little bit to get me throughthese times.
Things are changing and and howdo you deal with it?
Well, there's some wisdom in inin recognizing that you can't
change the external forces, thatyou can be the thermostat
instead of the uh thermometer incertain situations.
And uh yeah, that's been that'sbeen helpful for me lately.
Marc Bernstein (25:56):
Aaron Powell By the way, Marcus Aurelius, I I I
so I listened in the car,audible.
Matt Ramsay (26:01):
Yeah.
Marc Bernstein (26:02):
But I found out I I picked the original, like
the original translations.
They're really hard to listento.
Matt Ramsay (26:08):
Well, what what are you listening to?
Marc Bernstein (26:10):
Well, well, um the original so it's it's in
it's sort of in ancient languageas opposed to there's modern
interpretations.
So now I'm trying the moderninterpretation.
Well, you're working in Latin?
No, it's the meditation book,Marcus really.
It's not in Latin, it's inEnglish.
Oh, yes, but it's the stricttranslation of the original
Latin.
Yes, yeah, good.
So that's the issue.
(26:31):
Yeah, yeah.
Um, yeah, we just have a couplemore seconds.
Um one last thing.
Do you have do you have anybook?
What's your next book you'dlike to read?
Matt Ramsay (26:40):
Oh, what's on my list?
Uh just more, more of that.
More uh anything I get in myhead.
I try to stay learning all thetime.
So you know, wisdom is the theorder of priorities.
Marc Bernstein (26:50):
You know, you like nourishing books.
Matt Ramsay (26:51):
Yeah, yeah.
I get my I get my fictionthrough the movies.
Marc Bernstein (26:54):
Excellent.
Well, thank you for being here,Matt.
Vera, thank you for being here.
Vera Hempel (26:58):
Thank you.
Marc Bernstein (26:59):
Thank you, Eric, for doing the engineering.
Thank you, WWDB, and thank youall for listening to Founders
Forum.
And we look forward to beingwith you again next week.
Yeah, go birds! Go birds.
Announcer (27:13):
We hope you enjoyed your time with Founders Forum
and that you found value to takewith you throughout your day.
Join us again next week foranother episode of Founders
Forum on WXKB 10398 D2.
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