May 17, 2023 • 27 mins
Can you tiptoe your way from a rocket scientist to launching a self-directed IRA company? Our guest for this episode, Carl Fischer, has done just that! As the CEO and co-founder of CamaPlan, Carl joins us to share his incredible journey from Cornell University to the Kennedy Space Center, and finally, to the world of alternative investments.
We kick off our conversation with a deep dive into the concept of resilience, drawing from our personal war stories and Carl's own rollercoaster ride. As we unravel Carl's transition from space science to finance, we discover how his early years in Fort Lauderdale and his stint at NASA influenced his approach towards business. He generously offers insights on the importance of honesty and education, and reveals how taxes, if not handled wisely, can be a significant drain on your income.
In the final segment, we explore how Carl fostered a culture of trust at CamaPlan. He shares his hiring criteria, the lessons he learned from his mistakes, and how resilience played a part in his journey. As we wrap up, Carl leaves us with his views on legacy, tips on teaching values, and valuable advice on self-directing IRAs. Tune in to discover the fascinating world of Carl Fischer, a rocket scientist turned financial guru!
About Carl Fischer, Founder of CamaPlan:
Carl Fischer is a Cornell University graduate and third-generation real estate developer. Carl began his investing career in the 1970s when he was employed as a rocket scientist at Kennedy Space Center in Cape Canaveral, Florida. He is presently one of the founders and principals of CAMA Self-Directed IRA, LLC (dba CamaPlan). CamaPlan is a national company headquartered in Ambler, PA.
Carl has implemented plans and managed over 20 million dollars in real estate transactions. Carl’s unique background, education, experience, and empirical knowledge relating to business, finance, technical requirements, scheduling, and overall management make him a key element in the success of his clients in controlling their own financial future.
Connect with Carl:
Website camaplan.com
LinkedIn linkedin.com/in/camaplan
Instagram instagram.com/cama_plan
Facebook facebook.com/camaplan
Twitter twitter.com/CamaPlan512
YouTube youtube.com/camaplan1
This episode is brought to you by CamaPlan, A Different Way to Invest. Go to camaplan.com/IRA to learn more.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Marc Bernstein (00:10):
Good day.
Hope you're having a good one.
This is Marc Bernstein andwe're here at Founders Forum.
I'm here with Ang Onorato on abeautiful sunny day in Bala
Cynwyd, Pennsylvania, one of thefirst days of spring.
And I say good day, by the way,because I don't know when
you'll be listening to this Itcould be any time of day.
So, again, hope you're having agood one.
And to start today's show, iwant to ask Ang I think she has
(00:35):
a thought for the day And I'dlike to see what you're thinking
about, and we'll have a littleconversation around that.
Ang Onorato (00:41):
Good morning, Marc, good to see you again.
And yes, especially in thefirst full week that we've been
together, the first full week ofspring for us.
And you know, as I was drivinginto the studio this morning, i
got a download, meaning just avision of the word and the
feeling of resiliency orresilience one or the other, and
(01:04):
it kind of struck me in termsof looking around and saying you
know That's a question foranother day, but which is it?
Marc Bernstein (01:08):
Resilience or resiliency?
You?
Ang Onorato (01:10):
know, I looked it up more And actually I thought
both are acceptable.
So I guess resiliency is alittle bit more common, a little
bit more current.
Marc Bernstein (01:19):
I like resiliency, let's go with that.
Ang Onorato (01:22):
Yeah, why not?
We're kind of in 2023.
We'll be current and hip.
But I think it came to me as athought for the day because, you
know, if we think about rebirthin the spring and sort of being
resilient and things coming outof hibernation, and it also
reminds me of people, businesses.
You know our conversation we'regoing to have with our guests
(01:43):
here in a few minutes around.
You know what does resiliencylook like in a business, in a
leader?
How does it play a part in ifyou have to pivot the business
or pivot an entire career?
You know that's something thatyou and I are interested in.
So, yeah, that kind of came tome and you know I'd like to get
your thoughts on resiliency Andwe can ask our guests as well
(02:04):
and just kind of the current hotseat for me today.
Marc Bernstein (02:08):
Well, i can tell you that, if I think about my
own business and career, i'm inthe financial services business
And when I started out it's atough business Everybody that's
been in that knows and you startout on the selling side of it.
I think of myself a lot more onthe consulting side of it today
, but starting out it was.
You know it's hard.
(02:30):
You have to create business outof the air.
I also, very early on, had apartnership that wasn't a great
partnership and had to come outof that and basically with a
loss of money and start againand have had to do things like
that several times throughout mycareer.
There's always obstacles toovercome And I think, i believe,
(02:55):
that you get to a certain pointwhere resiliency comes
naturally.
You just expect it as part oflife.
You know, it's just another.
In fact, I actually likeobstacles today.
I like the challenge ofobstacles, But it took a long
time to get to that point.
That's my thought about thatHow about you?
How's that been a factor inyour working?
Ang Onorato (03:18):
life.
I think it's well, definitely onthe working life.
From my own career, you knowI've kind of tried a number of
different things as well And youknow I've gotten and had roles
where I was doing reallywonderful and then one whatever
event might happen and you kindof find yourself plummeting and
picking back up and start overagain.
But you know, notably when Ithink about, for example, the
(03:40):
recession, right, So I've spentmy entire career in executive
leadership and executive searchand coaching, and during the
recession there was a massive,massive white collar, you know,
downturn, and so my business andmyself even we had to pivot, we
had to be resilient and say ifwe're not hiring people, how do
we help them become resilientand retool themselves and
(04:01):
rebrand themselves for newthings?
So I think resiliency isprobably in everything that we
do personally and professionally.
And I'm excited to delve alittle bit deeper into that
topic as we talk with our gueststoday, because it certainly
seems like he has a veryinteresting story and we'd love
to kind of hear his thoughts onit as well.
Marc Bernstein (04:21):
I think that's a great lead-in.
Thanks for doing that, inge.
So we have with us here todayCarl Fischer.
Carl Fischer is CEO andco-founder of CamaPlan, which is
a company that is one of thelargest administrators of
alternative investments in IRAsin the country so self-directed
(04:42):
IRAs which opens up a wholefield of a lot of questions and
a lot of interesting topics,because there's all kinds of
other kinds of investments thatmany people aren't aware you can
do in IRAs.
And Carl just a little bit ofbackground is a very bright guy.
I've had the opportunity toknow him for the past number of
years and he's a graduate ofCornell University and he was
(05:05):
literally a rocket scientistworking at the Kennedy Space
Center in Cape Canaveral,florida, and from there came
into this business, which we'lltalk a little bit about.
How he got there.
I just want to mention thatCarl was also interested in all
kinds of alternative investmentsas a natural outgrowth of his
career and personally has donemuch in the way of real estate
(05:30):
transactions in particular andother types of alternative
investments.
So he's CammaPlan and Carl andhis partner, who is his sister,
Maggie Palasano, who I think wemight have on, if she's willing,
on another show at some point.
They provide a lot ofinformation and introduce a lot
of people in the alternativeinvestment space to their
(05:51):
clients.
So with that, carl, let's talkabout resiliency How has that
impacted you?
And then we'll kind of gobackwards and talk about your
story.
Carl Fischer (06:01):
I think resiliency is definitely key.
You know and it makes me thinkof the quote, you know the old
Chinese quote.
we live in interesting timesAnd I think we're in one of
those, are coming up on anotherone, and I've seen interesting
times over the past.
(06:21):
you know 50, 60 years.
So I do think you need to beresilient.
But everybody listening to thisshow today comes from a long
line of survivors.
So I do think that to be in thesurvivors you have to be
resilient in what you're doing.
So I like the word.
(06:42):
Thanks for picking it up and.
Marc Bernstein (06:45):
I like interesting times, Don't you
think, Carl?
we're always in interestingtimes, like I.
you know, I am a baby boomerand I think about the years I've
lived through And I'm trying tothink that there weren't too
many that weren't interesting.
but I'm sure some are moreinteresting than others.
But what's your take on that?
Carl Fischer (07:02):
Yeah, no, i mean, if you look at the technology, i
mean some of my grandkids don'tknow about rotary phones or
even the touchtone phones.
You know air conditioned cars,seat belts, there's all kinds of
those things.
You know we used to drink waterout of a hose, you know.
So, yeah, there's all kinds oftechnology changing And there
(07:27):
was at one point they were goingto get rid of the patent office
in the United States becausethey said that all the
inventions have been made, youknow.
So there was on the books atone point to get rid of that
patent office.
So and the speed of that changeand the velocity of the change
(07:48):
in technology and laws andlifestyle has been excellent,
you know.
I mean, if you think about it,almost anybody in America was
living better than kings andqueens, you know, a century ago.
Marc Bernstein (08:06):
By the way you mentioned, technology is one
mentioned one thing I'd like tohave a whole show sometime on.
Words we use that don't meanwhat they used to.
Like somebody say if I said,carl, you know I'll dial you up,
you know I'll give you a calllike he's a dial, but you know.
But then there are people thatmight say that they don't even
know why it's called dial.
(08:27):
Or you know, we talk aboutmusic a little bit on the show.
We might talk about it later ontoday.
You know what's your favoriterecord?
you know, but there reallyaren't any record.
I mean, there are records, butreally the specialty item today,
you know, it's really what.
What are you streaming thesedays?
or what are you?
You know it's not DVDs.
Cds are almost out of date now,so it is.
(08:50):
But we still use those wordsand there's a whole bunch of
them that still linger aroundand people have no idea why they
, why they're there.
So, carl, tell us a little bitabout how you got from.
Well, first of all yourbackground, because it's kind of
interesting I know you comefrom a large family and tell us
about your formative years andhow you went to become a rocket
(09:13):
scientist and how you got fromthere to what you're doing today
.
Carl Fischer (09:18):
Okay quickly.
I was born in New Jersey but mymom and dad moved down to
Florida when I was two years oldSo I got to grow up in Fort
Lauderdale.
My mom and dad were in realestate and their moms and dads
were in real estate And theystarted buying real estate when
(09:38):
they came came to Florida.
I went to high school in FortLauderdale.
I went to Cornell up in NewYork and was in engineering and
architecture.
After coming out of college Iwent to work for Mark Marietta
and NASA on the research anddevelopment of the Space Shuttle
(10:02):
program.
I was interested to put manback into space.
I thought maybe I'd be able toget a ride if I was right there
at the launch pad.
Hop on at the last minute.
I was naive coming out ofcollege and didn't know exactly
how it worked, but at the sametime I knew about real estate.
(10:23):
I was the one who rented thehouse when we went skiing in
Vermont over the Christmas break, so I had just done a lot of
real estate.
You know, following my dadaround, i used to open up the
checks or the mailbox money, asa lot of people talked about and
learned about that.
(10:43):
But manned spaceflight was alot more fun and it was exciting
And you got to meet theastronauts, and so I really like
that part of it.
Marc Bernstein (10:56):
Before you go on , i just have to say you're the
first person that I've reallyhad a conversation with Trying
to hitch a ride on the SpaceShuttle.
I think that's prettyoutstanding in itself.
So maybe your next job?
you work for SpaceX or BlueOrigin or one of those companies
.
Yeah, exactly.
Carl Fischer (11:12):
Anyway, well, yeah , i mean I got out of that
because we were starting, youknow, the rumors were on the
take that we were going to getrid of the Space Shuttle and
move to, you know, paying theRussians for rides to space,
which you know, really justirked me because, you know, i
(11:35):
like to have my own car and myown transportation.
I don't want to be holdingtight, i don't want to be
holding to Uber or the taxi cabs, but anyway.
So at that point I left thespace program.
I did some stuff on somemilitary satellites and some
commercial space, but at thatpoint I left the space program
(12:00):
and went into mortgage brokeringand then self directed IRAs and
401ks, because I found out thatI could take what my mom and
dad had taught me in real estate, add the self direction to it
in the IRA world and basicallyhave tax free income for the
(12:22):
rest of my life, which increased, you know, my earnings, you
know, by 30 to 37%, depending onwhat tax bracket I was in.
So once I found that out, istarted passing it off.
You know, like you said, i'mone of 12 kids, so I had a
pretty big network And I wasworking at the space center and
(12:44):
knew a lot of people andengineers there and I would pass
this information off to thosepeople and I helped them do it.
And then, finally, you know, mysister and I started a business
.
She graduated from Villanovaand was in data control and
finance, so that's how CamaPlanwas born.
Marc Bernstein (13:07):
Very interesting And, as I mentioned, i think I
believe you're one of thelargest companies in the country
doing that, although based herein Ambrose, pennsylvania,
although you're based in FortLauderdale, i know, yeah, i mean
my.
Carl Fischer (13:21):
our headquarters is in Ambrose Pennsylvania, and
I'm still there.
I've always kept my residentsin Florida because, again, you
know, taxes is one of yourbiggest expenses And with those
taxes, florida doesn't have anincome tax and never has.
So that's one of the reasons Ikeep my primary residents here.
Marc Bernstein (13:43):
Yeah, so in terms of getting to where you
got, because CamaP lan is one ofthe one of the greatest IRA
self directed IRA administratorsout there today What, what do
you think?
what?
what if you could name onething that contributed to the
success you've had?
a camera plan, you and yoursister.
What would you call that?
Carl Fischer (14:07):
I would say it's education, Right?
I think it's also, you know,honesty.
And we set it up for investorsbecause we wanted a company like
ourselves were investors, So wefelt that we would.
(14:27):
You know, this is how we wouldwant the company run, And that's
what we ended up doing is youknow setting it up for investors
by investors, and I think thatwould be one of the contributors
to it.
You know little things, like weanswer the phone instead of
putting people on.
You know answering machines andhaving having to have them push
(14:49):
10 or 15 buttons.
We want them to.
You know get to people thingsthat we like Nice.
Marc Bernstein (14:55):
Carl, we're going to take a short break when
we come back.
I do want to ask you about yournetwork of investors, because I
know that's something you'vedeveloped and you've actually
even built an organizationaround that.
So let's take a short break andwe'll be right back.
Announcer (15:08):
Establishing a self-directed Roth IRA or other
self-directed retirement planoffers access to investment
options usually only availableto well connected or wealthy
individuals.
Anyone can build wealth andachieve tax-free income for life
and financial freedom withoutthe inordinate risk of
speculative investing,securities, trading exotic
(15:30):
financial instruments or hopingfor the best from the stock
market.
Since their inception in 2003,CamaPlan has come to be
synonymous with expertise,flexibility, responsiveness and
diversity of investment choices.
They provide innovativeinvestment opportunities for
investors seeking direct controland more choices in how they
(15:51):
deploy their investment capital.
Cammaplan doesn't just make itpossible to invest in
alternative assets.
They also teach investors howto put their money to work.
Take the road to financialfreedom today.
Go to camaplan.
com/ IRA.
Marc Bernstein (16:13):
Hi, we are back today at Founders Forum with
Carl Fischer.
Carl, as the music's playing, ijust wanted to ask you a little
bit more about your network ofinvestors.
I know that you've builtsomewhat of an organization
around that and sort of asemi-formal way to communicate
amongst alternative investors.
Do you want to comment on thatfor a moment?
Carl Fischer (16:34):
Sure, i mean when we started CammaPlan we thought
it was going to be easy, but alot of people didn't know
anything about alternativeinvestments.
I mean, if you're in realestate, then you knew about real
estate, but all of the otherdifferent investments gold,
precious metal, notes andmortgages people don't know much
about.
(16:54):
So at CammaPlan we startededucating people on different
asset classes and we bring inprofessionals you know,
attorneys, accountants, realtors, title companies, different
professionals around the countryBut the other thing we bring in
is people that are actuallydoing alternative investments
(17:17):
and are passionate about theirinvestments.
I mean, some people lovemultifamily, some people love
oil and gas, some people likethe music industry right Or TV
or movies.
So there's a lot of differentinvestments that are out there
and we bring those people thatare actually doing it and we ask
(17:39):
them you know about theirinvestments and why they're
passionate about them and whythey think they're the best
investments to be in, becauseeverybody can pick anything they
want to do.
So there's reasons that peoplepick these things.
Like, i like real estate, butmy mom and dad and my mom and
dad were around it and I grew uparound it.
(18:00):
So from a risk standpoint, ithink I'm more knowledgeable And
from a fear standpoint, i thinkI'm more knowledgeable, so I
don't have that fear in thatvenue per se, but there's other
people that have that in all theother places.
So we bring in note buyers,note makers, mortgage makers
(18:21):
gold dealers.
So it's a good thing, and thenpeople can listen and we try to
make it all educational and notsales.
Now people might like what theyhear and they can go talk to
the people that get introducedon our show if they want to
invest with them a lot of times,but that's completely divergent
(18:42):
of us.
Ang Onorato (18:43):
So, carl, that's you know.
I think it's very, veryinteresting.
I know, even for myself, I'vejust started learning about
alternative investments onlyabout three years ago.
So you know, i think whatyou're talking about and how
your company's built aroundeducating the market as well and
really bringing some of thesethings into the fold and having
people have access to that isreally interesting and exciting
(19:04):
and love that you're using yourplatform for education as well.
I'm also curious about as youbuilt the company and you said
you know you thought it wasgoing to be easy and you found
it a little bit more challenging.
I'm interested in terms of howyou built it from the inside out
to meaning, because it's analternative marketplace, so to
speak.
What criteria when you look tohire people for a Kama plan?
(19:24):
So not your clients, butemployees and you know other
leaders What are some of thethings that you've looked for?
What makes them part of yourculture?
How have you kind of craftedthat culture over the years and
what do you think ties intohaving you guys now have that
unique ability in your business?
Carl Fischer (19:40):
Well, i think that one thing that I focus on is I
want our people to be polite andhonest.
Okay, we can teach them thebusiness, but being polite,
honest, straightforward, thoseare things that I think are
intrinsic in people and it justmakes you feel better when
(20:03):
you're talking to them, because,from the top down, we want that
in our business, because that'swhat develops trust and we want
people to trust us and we wantto trust the people that we're
working with.
Ang Onorato (20:17):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think that's especially thetrust and authenticity piece.
You know, you don't have to govery far in the news to these
days to kind of see you knowcompanies, organizations or
things that are not necessarilytrustworthy.
So I think that's fantastic,that that's kind of a key value
and core mission you know of thebusiness.
(20:37):
So I think that's reallycritical and important,
especially for smallerbusinesses, right, and I'm going
to imagine that helps youcreate lasting relationships and
ongoing relationships with yourclients as well.
Carl Fischer (20:49):
Yeah, for sure.
I think that that's it.
We've had employees that havebeen with us, you know, almost
since we started, and we do liketo have that consistency going
through.
Announcer (21:01):
But you know you have to.
Carl Fischer (21:03):
You have to work with them, as well as them
working with us.
But we're always trying to dodo the best for our clients and
do the best for our employees.
Marc Bernstein (21:14):
Carla, we talked a bit about how you created
your successes through, you know, networking with others and
gathering together people andeducating them, and how you find
your employees.
What, since we're talking aboutresiliency today, what kind of
(21:35):
roadblocks or failures did yourun into that?
I know, sometimes those are ourgreatest lessons.
What kind of things that youcan think of came along the way
that taught you more and gaveyou more strength to move
forward?
Carl Fischer (21:50):
Well, I've always been a believer in learning from
other people's mistakes opposedto mine But obviously you don't
go through life without makingsome mistakes.
Marc Bernstein (22:05):
By the way, I thought OPM was other people's
money, but I guess it's otherpeople's mistakes.
I like that.
That's great.
Carl Fischer (22:11):
Well, it's less costly and less time consuming
for you.
You know what I mean.
Marc Bernstein (22:16):
Sure.
Any of those mistakes you canidentify.
Carl Fischer (22:20):
Well, yeah, let me think.
I think most of them come fromlack of preparation or not
enough preparation when meetingan opportunity, and sometimes
you jump in too fast or youremotions get to you.
I can talk about buying a houseas an example.
(22:42):
Oh, you really wanted thathouse because it was on a point
lot and you overpaid for it.
Now is it something that'sgoing to sink you?
No, it's not.
But I'll tell you a couple ofother ones too.
I mean, when I was launchingrockets some of you know, and
(23:05):
the lessons are the same outthere, i had to put the connect
the shuttle to the external tankand we took it apart and I was
using the same bolts to put itback together again because they
were very expensive.
And some of the NASA engineerssaid why didn't you use the new
bolts?
And I said because these meetthe specs And you know, they,
(23:31):
they, they brought us in to talkto the higher ups and I
actually, you know, prevailed.
But when that rocket took off,the engineer looked at me, says
I hope nothing happens with thatconnection.
And you know I was fearful, foryou know the eight minutes that
(23:52):
rocket was in flight.
And then I'm thinking about themoney I could have spent and
not had that concern, butnothing happened.
But it just makes you do alittle bit cost analysis,
because if something hadhappened to it it could have
killed you know seven crewmen.
So I think you, you know nearnear, failures are almost as
(24:19):
good as as failures, if I hopethat answers your question.
Marc Bernstein (24:23):
That's a great one.
That's a great visualization tohave in terms of preparation,
which you mentioned beforeLooking.
I just want to ask you quicklyif your vision for the future
for let's see we actually I seewe're running a little short on
time, let's get back to that ifwe have time at the end.
(24:43):
I want to ask you you know wedo our closing rounds just some
quick thoughts.
So I'm going to ask you, carlshift gears a lot.
I know you're a music fan Whatis your favorite song and why?
Carl Fischer (24:58):
I like it's a hard day's night.
That's great, And the reason Ilike that is because it kind of
taught me that I want freedom.
right, I don't want to worknine to five, but that's another
good one by Dolly Parton.
So you start thinking aboutthat and it creates a vision of
(25:21):
freedom.
So that's one of you know, doyou really want to be spending
your time at work versussomewhere?
Marc Bernstein (25:26):
else.
So you know we talk a littlebit about music.
I'm a big Beatles fan and ahard day's night was a
malapropism coined by RingoStarr, who had a number of those
.
So that little misuse of wordshas sounds like a guiding light
in your life to a certain extent.
Pretty interesting.
Carl Fischer (25:44):
It is right.
I mean, that was when I was incollege and thinking about this
stuff.
Marc Bernstein (25:47):
Right?
Lastly, because we don't havemuch time left, so I'm going to
go right to tell me yourthoughts about your legacy.
I know you're buildingsomething special with your
business and some of theeducation you do.
What thoughts do you havearound that?
Carl Fischer (26:03):
Well, i mean, my legacy obviously starts out with
my family.
I have four boys and sevengrandchildren, and another one
on the way.
So you know, life is good.
That's a legacy in itself, butwhat you want to do is you want
to teach your kids to be polite,you know, be honest and be good
(26:28):
citizens and take care of theirstewardship over the earth and
anything that I'm able to passon to them And a lot of people
think it's money or buildings orthings like that But I think
their thought process and how tolive a healthy, freedom-filled
(26:55):
life is what I really want topush onto these kids.
Marc Bernstein (26:59):
That's a wonderful thought, wonderful
message.
Carl, thank you so much forbeing here today.
You've helped to satisfy mineand Angie's curiosities.
Carl Fischer (27:10):
Thanks, Marc.
I appreciate being here andlet's get everybody thinking
about self-directing their IRAs.
Announcer (27:33):
We hope you enjoyed your time with Founders Forum
today and you found value totake with you throughout your
day.
Join us again next week foranother episode of Founders
Forum on WWDB Talk Radio andalways at the Founders Forum
Show page at wwwdamcom.
Good day.
Hope you're having a good one.
This is Marc Bernstein andwe're here at Founders Forum.
I'm here with Ang Onorato on abeautiful sunny day in Bala
Cynwyd, Pennsylvania, one of thefirst days of spring.
And I say good day, by the way,because I don't know when
you'll be listening to this Itcould be any time of day.
So, again, hope you're having agood one.
And to start today's show, iwant to ask Ang I think she has
(00:35):
a thought for the day And I'dlike to see what you're thinking
about, and we'll have a littleconversation around that.
Ang Onorato (00:41):
Good morning, Marc, good to see you again.
And yes, especially in thefirst full week that we've been
together, the first full week ofspring for us.
And you know, as I was drivinginto the studio this morning, i
got a download, meaning just avision of the word and the
feeling of resiliency orresilience one or the other, and
(01:04):
it kind of struck me in termsof looking around and saying you
know That's a question foranother day, but which is it?
Marc Bernstein (01:08):
Resilience or resiliency?
You?
Ang Onorato (01:10):
know, I looked it up more And actually I thought
both are acceptable.
So I guess resiliency is alittle bit more common, a little
bit more current.
Marc Bernstein (01:19):
I like resiliency, let's go with that.
Ang Onorato (01:22):
Yeah, why not?
We're kind of in 2023.
We'll be current and hip.
But I think it came to me as athought for the day because, you
know, if we think about rebirthin the spring and sort of being
resilient and things coming outof hibernation, and it also
reminds me of people, businesses.
You know our conversation we'regoing to have with our guests
(01:43):
here in a few minutes around.
You know what does resiliencylook like in a business, in a
leader?
How does it play a part in ifyou have to pivot the business
or pivot an entire career?
You know that's something thatyou and I are interested in.
So, yeah, that kind of came tome and you know I'd like to get
your thoughts on resiliency Andwe can ask our guests as well
(02:04):
and just kind of the current hotseat for me today.
Marc Bernstein (02:08):
Well, i can tell you that, if I think about my
own business and career, i'm inthe financial services business
And when I started out it's atough business Everybody that's
been in that knows and you startout on the selling side of it.
I think of myself a lot more onthe consulting side of it today
, but starting out it was.
You know it's hard.
(02:30):
You have to create business outof the air.
I also, very early on, had apartnership that wasn't a great
partnership and had to come outof that and basically with a
loss of money and start againand have had to do things like
that several times throughout mycareer.
There's always obstacles toovercome And I think, i believe,
(02:55):
that you get to a certain pointwhere resiliency comes
naturally.
You just expect it as part oflife.
You know, it's just another.
In fact, I actually likeobstacles today.
I like the challenge ofobstacles, But it took a long
time to get to that point.
That's my thought about thatHow about you?
How's that been a factor inyour working?
Ang Onorato (03:18):
life.
I think it's well, definitely onthe working life.
From my own career, you knowI've kind of tried a number of
different things as well And youknow I've gotten and had roles
where I was doing reallywonderful and then one whatever
event might happen and you kindof find yourself plummeting and
picking back up and start overagain.
But you know, notably when Ithink about, for example, the
(03:40):
recession, right, So I've spentmy entire career in executive
leadership and executive searchand coaching, and during the
recession there was a massive,massive white collar, you know,
downturn, and so my business andmyself even we had to pivot, we
had to be resilient and say ifwe're not hiring people, how do
we help them become resilientand retool themselves and
(04:01):
rebrand themselves for newthings?
So I think resiliency isprobably in everything that we
do personally and professionally.
And I'm excited to delve alittle bit deeper into that
topic as we talk with our gueststoday, because it certainly
seems like he has a veryinteresting story and we'd love
to kind of hear his thoughts onit as well.
Marc Bernstein (04:21):
I think that's a great lead-in.
Thanks for doing that, inge.
So we have with us here todayCarl Fischer.
Carl Fischer is CEO andco-founder of CamaPlan, which is
a company that is one of thelargest administrators of
alternative investments in IRAsin the country so self-directed
(04:42):
IRAs which opens up a wholefield of a lot of questions and
a lot of interesting topics,because there's all kinds of
other kinds of investments thatmany people aren't aware you can
do in IRAs.
And Carl just a little bit ofbackground is a very bright guy.
I've had the opportunity toknow him for the past number of
years and he's a graduate ofCornell University and he was
(05:05):
literally a rocket scientistworking at the Kennedy Space
Center in Cape Canaveral,florida, and from there came
into this business, which we'lltalk a little bit about.
How he got there.
I just want to mention thatCarl was also interested in all
kinds of alternative investmentsas a natural outgrowth of his
career and personally has donemuch in the way of real estate
(05:30):
transactions in particular andother types of alternative
investments.
So he's CammaPlan and Carl andhis partner, who is his sister,
Maggie Palasano, who I think wemight have on, if she's willing,
on another show at some point.
They provide a lot ofinformation and introduce a lot
of people in the alternativeinvestment space to their
(05:51):
clients.
So with that, carl, let's talkabout resiliency How has that
impacted you?
And then we'll kind of gobackwards and talk about your
story.
Carl Fischer (06:01):
I think resiliency is definitely key.
You know and it makes me thinkof the quote, you know the old
Chinese quote.
we live in interesting timesAnd I think we're in one of
those, are coming up on anotherone, and I've seen interesting
times over the past.
(06:21):
you know 50, 60 years.
So I do think you need to beresilient.
But everybody listening to thisshow today comes from a long
line of survivors.
So I do think that to be in thesurvivors you have to be
resilient in what you're doing.
So I like the word.
(06:42):
Thanks for picking it up and.
Marc Bernstein (06:45):
I like interesting times, Don't you
think, Carl?
we're always in interestingtimes, like I.
you know, I am a baby boomerand I think about the years I've
lived through And I'm trying tothink that there weren't too
many that weren't interesting.
but I'm sure some are moreinteresting than others.
But what's your take on that?
Carl Fischer (07:02):
Yeah, no, i mean, if you look at the technology, i
mean some of my grandkids don'tknow about rotary phones or
even the touchtone phones.
You know air conditioned cars,seat belts, there's all kinds of
those things.
You know we used to drink waterout of a hose, you know.
So, yeah, there's all kinds oftechnology changing And there
(07:27):
was at one point they were goingto get rid of the patent office
in the United States becausethey said that all the
inventions have been made, youknow.
So there was on the books atone point to get rid of that
patent office.
So and the speed of that changeand the velocity of the change
(07:48):
in technology and laws andlifestyle has been excellent,
you know.
I mean, if you think about it,almost anybody in America was
living better than kings andqueens, you know, a century ago.
Marc Bernstein (08:06):
By the way you mentioned, technology is one
mentioned one thing I'd like tohave a whole show sometime on.
Words we use that don't meanwhat they used to.
Like somebody say if I said,carl, you know I'll dial you up,
you know I'll give you a calllike he's a dial, but you know.
But then there are people thatmight say that they don't even
know why it's called dial.
(08:27):
Or you know, we talk aboutmusic a little bit on the show.
We might talk about it later ontoday.
You know what's your favoriterecord?
you know, but there reallyaren't any record.
I mean, there are records, butreally the specialty item today,
you know, it's really what.
What are you streaming thesedays?
or what are you?
You know it's not DVDs.
Cds are almost out of date now,so it is.
(08:50):
But we still use those wordsand there's a whole bunch of
them that still linger aroundand people have no idea why they
, why they're there.
So, carl, tell us a little bitabout how you got from.
Well, first of all yourbackground, because it's kind of
interesting I know you comefrom a large family and tell us
about your formative years andhow you went to become a rocket
(09:13):
scientist and how you got fromthere to what you're doing today
.
Carl Fischer (09:18):
Okay quickly.
I was born in New Jersey but mymom and dad moved down to
Florida when I was two years oldSo I got to grow up in Fort
Lauderdale.
My mom and dad were in realestate and their moms and dads
were in real estate And theystarted buying real estate when
(09:38):
they came came to Florida.
I went to high school in FortLauderdale.
I went to Cornell up in NewYork and was in engineering and
architecture.
After coming out of college Iwent to work for Mark Marietta
and NASA on the research anddevelopment of the Space Shuttle
(10:02):
program.
I was interested to put manback into space.
I thought maybe I'd be able toget a ride if I was right there
at the launch pad.
Hop on at the last minute.
I was naive coming out ofcollege and didn't know exactly
how it worked, but at the sametime I knew about real estate.
(10:23):
I was the one who rented thehouse when we went skiing in
Vermont over the Christmas break, so I had just done a lot of
real estate.
You know, following my dadaround, i used to open up the
checks or the mailbox money, asa lot of people talked about and
learned about that.
(10:43):
But manned spaceflight was alot more fun and it was exciting
And you got to meet theastronauts, and so I really like
that part of it.
Marc Bernstein (10:56):
Before you go on , i just have to say you're the
first person that I've reallyhad a conversation with Trying
to hitch a ride on the SpaceShuttle.
I think that's prettyoutstanding in itself.
So maybe your next job?
you work for SpaceX or BlueOrigin or one of those companies
.
Yeah, exactly.
Carl Fischer (11:12):
Anyway, well, yeah , i mean I got out of that
because we were starting, youknow, the rumors were on the
take that we were going to getrid of the Space Shuttle and
move to, you know, paying theRussians for rides to space,
which you know, really justirked me because, you know, i
(11:35):
like to have my own car and myown transportation.
I don't want to be holdingtight, i don't want to be
holding to Uber or the taxi cabs, but anyway.
So at that point I left thespace program.
I did some stuff on somemilitary satellites and some
commercial space, but at thatpoint I left the space program
(12:00):
and went into mortgage brokeringand then self directed IRAs and
401ks, because I found out thatI could take what my mom and
dad had taught me in real estate, add the self direction to it
in the IRA world and basicallyhave tax free income for the
(12:22):
rest of my life, which increased, you know, my earnings, you
know, by 30 to 37%, depending onwhat tax bracket I was in.
So once I found that out, istarted passing it off.
You know, like you said, i'mone of 12 kids, so I had a
pretty big network And I wasworking at the space center and
(12:44):
knew a lot of people andengineers there and I would pass
this information off to thosepeople and I helped them do it.
And then, finally, you know, mysister and I started a business
.
She graduated from Villanovaand was in data control and
finance, so that's how CamaPlanwas born.
Marc Bernstein (13:07):
Very interesting And, as I mentioned, i think I
believe you're one of thelargest companies in the country
doing that, although based herein Ambrose, pennsylvania,
although you're based in FortLauderdale, i know, yeah, i mean
my.
Carl Fischer (13:21):
our headquarters is in Ambrose Pennsylvania, and
I'm still there.
I've always kept my residentsin Florida because, again, you
know, taxes is one of yourbiggest expenses And with those
taxes, florida doesn't have anincome tax and never has.
So that's one of the reasons Ikeep my primary residents here.
Marc Bernstein (13:43):
Yeah, so in terms of getting to where you
got, because CamaP lan is one ofthe one of the greatest IRA
self directed IRA administratorsout there today What, what do
you think?
what?
what if you could name onething that contributed to the
success you've had?
a camera plan, you and yoursister.
What would you call that?
Carl Fischer (14:07):
I would say it's education, Right?
I think it's also, you know,honesty.
And we set it up for investorsbecause we wanted a company like
ourselves were investors, So wefelt that we would.
(14:27):
You know, this is how we wouldwant the company run, And that's
what we ended up doing is youknow setting it up for investors
by investors, and I think thatwould be one of the contributors
to it.
You know little things, like weanswer the phone instead of
putting people on.
You know answering machines andhaving having to have them push
(14:49):
10 or 15 buttons.
We want them to.
You know get to people thingsthat we like Nice.
Marc Bernstein (14:55):
Carl, we're going to take a short break when
we come back.
I do want to ask you about yournetwork of investors, because I
know that's something you'vedeveloped and you've actually
even built an organizationaround that.
So let's take a short break andwe'll be right back.
Announcer (15:08):
Establishing a self-directed Roth IRA or other
self-directed retirement planoffers access to investment
options usually only availableto well connected or wealthy
individuals.
Anyone can build wealth andachieve tax-free income for life
and financial freedom withoutthe inordinate risk of
speculative investing,securities, trading exotic
(15:30):
financial instruments or hopingfor the best from the stock
market.
Since their inception in 2003,CamaPlan has come to be
synonymous with expertise,flexibility, responsiveness and
diversity of investment choices.
They provide innovativeinvestment opportunities for
investors seeking direct controland more choices in how they
(15:51):
deploy their investment capital.
Cammaplan doesn't just make itpossible to invest in
alternative assets.
They also teach investors howto put their money to work.
Take the road to financialfreedom today.
Go to camaplan.
com/ IRA.
Marc Bernstein (16:13):
Hi, we are back today at Founders Forum with
Carl Fischer.
Carl, as the music's playing, ijust wanted to ask you a little
bit more about your network ofinvestors.
I know that you've builtsomewhat of an organization
around that and sort of asemi-formal way to communicate
amongst alternative investors.
Do you want to comment on thatfor a moment?
Carl Fischer (16:34):
Sure, i mean when we started CammaPlan we thought
it was going to be easy, but alot of people didn't know
anything about alternativeinvestments.
I mean, if you're in realestate, then you knew about real
estate, but all of the otherdifferent investments gold,
precious metal, notes andmortgages people don't know much
about.
(16:54):
So at CammaPlan we startededucating people on different
asset classes and we bring inprofessionals you know,
attorneys, accountants, realtors, title companies, different
professionals around the countryBut the other thing we bring in
is people that are actuallydoing alternative investments
(17:17):
and are passionate about theirinvestments.
I mean, some people lovemultifamily, some people love
oil and gas, some people likethe music industry right Or TV
or movies.
So there's a lot of differentinvestments that are out there
and we bring those people thatare actually doing it and we ask
(17:39):
them you know about theirinvestments and why they're
passionate about them and whythey think they're the best
investments to be in, becauseeverybody can pick anything they
want to do.
So there's reasons that peoplepick these things.
Like, i like real estate, butmy mom and dad and my mom and
dad were around it and I grew uparound it.
(18:00):
So from a risk standpoint, ithink I'm more knowledgeable And
from a fear standpoint, i thinkI'm more knowledgeable, so I
don't have that fear in thatvenue per se, but there's other
people that have that in all theother places.
So we bring in note buyers,note makers, mortgage makers
(18:21):
gold dealers.
So it's a good thing, and thenpeople can listen and we try to
make it all educational and notsales.
Now people might like what theyhear and they can go talk to
the people that get introducedon our show if they want to
invest with them a lot of times,but that's completely divergent
(18:42):
of us.
Ang Onorato (18:43):
So, carl, that's you know.
I think it's very, veryinteresting.
I know, even for myself, I'vejust started learning about
alternative investments onlyabout three years ago.
So you know, i think whatyou're talking about and how
your company's built aroundeducating the market as well and
really bringing some of thesethings into the fold and having
people have access to that isreally interesting and exciting
(19:04):
and love that you're using yourplatform for education as well.
I'm also curious about as youbuilt the company and you said
you know you thought it wasgoing to be easy and you found
it a little bit more challenging.
I'm interested in terms of howyou built it from the inside out
to meaning, because it's analternative marketplace, so to
speak.
What criteria when you look tohire people for a Kama plan?
(19:24):
So not your clients, butemployees and you know other
leaders What are some of thethings that you've looked for?
What makes them part of yourculture?
How have you kind of craftedthat culture over the years and
what do you think ties intohaving you guys now have that
unique ability in your business?
Carl Fischer (19:40):
Well, i think that one thing that I focus on is I
want our people to be polite andhonest.
Okay, we can teach them thebusiness, but being polite,
honest, straightforward, thoseare things that I think are
intrinsic in people and it justmakes you feel better when
(20:03):
you're talking to them, because,from the top down, we want that
in our business, because that'swhat develops trust and we want
people to trust us and we wantto trust the people that we're
working with.
Ang Onorato (20:17):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think that's especially thetrust and authenticity piece.
You know, you don't have to govery far in the news to these
days to kind of see you knowcompanies, organizations or
things that are not necessarilytrustworthy.
So I think that's fantastic,that that's kind of a key value
and core mission you know of thebusiness.
(20:37):
So I think that's reallycritical and important,
especially for smallerbusinesses, right, and I'm going
to imagine that helps youcreate lasting relationships and
ongoing relationships with yourclients as well.
Carl Fischer (20:49):
Yeah, for sure.
I think that that's it.
We've had employees that havebeen with us, you know, almost
since we started, and we do liketo have that consistency going
through.
Announcer (21:01):
But you know you have to.
Carl Fischer (21:03):
You have to work with them, as well as them
working with us.
But we're always trying to dodo the best for our clients and
do the best for our employees.
Marc Bernstein (21:14):
Carla, we talked a bit about how you created
your successes through, you know, networking with others and
gathering together people andeducating them, and how you find
your employees.
What, since we're talking aboutresiliency today, what kind of
(21:35):
roadblocks or failures did yourun into that?
I know, sometimes those are ourgreatest lessons.
What kind of things that youcan think of came along the way
that taught you more and gaveyou more strength to move
forward?
Carl Fischer (21:50):
Well, I've always been a believer in learning from
other people's mistakes opposedto mine But obviously you don't
go through life without makingsome mistakes.
Marc Bernstein (22:05):
By the way, I thought OPM was other people's
money, but I guess it's otherpeople's mistakes.
I like that.
That's great.
Carl Fischer (22:11):
Well, it's less costly and less time consuming
for you.
You know what I mean.
Marc Bernstein (22:16):
Sure.
Any of those mistakes you canidentify.
Carl Fischer (22:20):
Well, yeah, let me think.
I think most of them come fromlack of preparation or not
enough preparation when meetingan opportunity, and sometimes
you jump in too fast or youremotions get to you.
I can talk about buying a houseas an example.
(22:42):
Oh, you really wanted thathouse because it was on a point
lot and you overpaid for it.
Now is it something that'sgoing to sink you?
No, it's not.
But I'll tell you a couple ofother ones too.
I mean, when I was launchingrockets some of you know, and
(23:05):
the lessons are the same outthere, i had to put the connect
the shuttle to the external tankand we took it apart and I was
using the same bolts to put itback together again because they
were very expensive.
And some of the NASA engineerssaid why didn't you use the new
bolts?
And I said because these meetthe specs And you know, they,
(23:31):
they, they brought us in to talkto the higher ups and I
actually, you know, prevailed.
But when that rocket took off,the engineer looked at me, says
I hope nothing happens with thatconnection.
And you know I was fearful, foryou know the eight minutes that
(23:52):
rocket was in flight.
And then I'm thinking about themoney I could have spent and
not had that concern, butnothing happened.
But it just makes you do alittle bit cost analysis,
because if something hadhappened to it it could have
killed you know seven crewmen.
So I think you, you know nearnear, failures are almost as
(24:19):
good as as failures, if I hopethat answers your question.
Marc Bernstein (24:23):
That's a great one.
That's a great visualization tohave in terms of preparation,
which you mentioned beforeLooking.
I just want to ask you quicklyif your vision for the future
for let's see we actually I seewe're running a little short on
time, let's get back to that ifwe have time at the end.
(24:43):
I want to ask you you know wedo our closing rounds just some
quick thoughts.
So I'm going to ask you, carlshift gears a lot.
I know you're a music fan Whatis your favorite song and why?
Carl Fischer (24:58):
I like it's a hard day's night.
That's great, And the reason Ilike that is because it kind of
taught me that I want freedom.
right, I don't want to worknine to five, but that's another
good one by Dolly Parton.
So you start thinking aboutthat and it creates a vision of
(25:21):
freedom.
So that's one of you know, doyou really want to be spending
your time at work versussomewhere?
Marc Bernstein (25:26):
else.
So you know we talk a littlebit about music.
I'm a big Beatles fan and ahard day's night was a
malapropism coined by RingoStarr, who had a number of those
.
So that little misuse of wordshas sounds like a guiding light
in your life to a certain extent.
Pretty interesting.
Carl Fischer (25:44):
It is right.
I mean, that was when I was incollege and thinking about this
stuff.
Marc Bernstein (25:47):
Right?
Lastly, because we don't havemuch time left, so I'm going to
go right to tell me yourthoughts about your legacy.
I know you're buildingsomething special with your
business and some of theeducation you do.
What thoughts do you havearound that?
Carl Fischer (26:03):
Well, i mean, my legacy obviously starts out with
my family.
I have four boys and sevengrandchildren, and another one
on the way.
So you know, life is good.
That's a legacy in itself, butwhat you want to do is you want
to teach your kids to be polite,you know, be honest and be good
(26:28):
citizens and take care of theirstewardship over the earth and
anything that I'm able to passon to them And a lot of people
think it's money or buildings orthings like that But I think
their thought process and how tolive a healthy, freedom-filled
(26:55):
life is what I really want topush onto these kids.
Marc Bernstein (26:59):
That's a wonderful thought, wonderful
message.
Carl, thank you so much forbeing here today.
You've helped to satisfy mineand Angie's curiosities.
Carl Fischer (27:10):
Thanks, Marc.
I appreciate being here andlet's get everybody thinking
about self-directing their IRAs.
Announcer (27:33):
We hope you enjoyed your time with Founders Forum
today and you found value totake with you throughout your
day.
Join us again next week foranother episode of Founders
Forum on WWDB Talk Radio andalways at the Founders Forum
Show page at wwwdamcom.
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